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# Atlas Network CEO Kerim Kfuri: How to build a disruption-proof business
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/atlas-network-ceo-kerim-kfuri/
- Published: 2025-06-05T10:00:07.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-25T01:20:31.000Z
- Description: The Atlas Network CEO on tariffs, AI, and why the shrug is the most expensive move in business.
- Author: Clint Betts

# Kerim Kfuri plans for the worst

Kerim Kfuri joined the CEO.com Podcast on the day the United States and China announced a 90-day pause on tariffs. It did not change his advice. The pause was one more swing in a year full of them, and his counsel to clients has held through it all. "You have to plan for the worst-case scenario, and anything else that's better than that is going to be gravy," he said.

Kfuri is president and CEO of [The Atlas Network](https://theatlasnetwork.com/?ref=ceo.com), a global supply chain company that has spent more than 20 years walking small, medium, and large businesses through mass production, from factory selection to the loading dock. The company maintains a network of nearly 2,000 suppliers, spread across [more than 30 countries](https://fortune.com/2025/08/29/trump-tariffs-supply-chain-disruption-expert-interview/?ref=ceo.com). Its pitch is not price or speed. "Truly, it's to help businesses avoid expensive mistakes," Kfuri said.

He came to the work sideways. He consulted at Accenture and worked inside regulators, including the Securities and Exchange Commission and NASD, the body that became FINRA. On a trip to Asia, he saw global manufacturing up close and noticed how much risk American businesses accepted to participate. Twenty years ago, platforms like Alibaba were full of middlemen posing as factories. When an order went bad, the seller would suddenly remember it never owned the factory at all. "It was this kind of black box, lack of visibility and transparency thing," Kfuri said. The Atlas Network was his answer. In 2023, it became [the first US-based Verified Supplier on Alibaba.com](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-atlas-network-llc-is-the-first-us-based-verified-supplier-on-alibabacom-301914433.html?ref=ceo.com), and Kfuri now serves as an Alibaba ambassador.

He wrote a book about the industry called [*Supply Chain Ups and Downs*](https://supplychainupsanddowns.com/?ref=ceo.com), a title he means literally. Pandemics, wars, politics, weather. The list of things that can wreck a supply chain is long, and most of them sit outside a CEO's control. Asked what he has learned about leadership, he answered with a curriculum: if he could add one college class, it would be how to manage chaos.

The tariff year has kept him moving. Kfuri came to the podcast from Cleveland, which he called the third-largest manufacturing city in the country, where he gave a keynote on five ways to manage tariffs. Absorption, meaning someone eats the cost, and the only question is who. Deferral, meaning delayed shipments or goods held in US bonded warehouses. Terms and conditions, meaning payment schedules stretched to protect cash flow. Pricing, because many companies underprice their goods and sit on value they have never charged for. And alternative supply chains, the option everyone mentions first and should reach for last.

What he warns against is the shrug. The owner who decides it will all work itself out. "That's when you go out of business, and people lose their jobs, and you don't have products to sell," Kfuri said.

His view of AI runs in two directions. Use it as a tool, not a crutch, he said, but the harder question is whether it can move from tool to teacher. Lean on it too much, and you lose creativity, along with the mistakes that turn into breakthroughs. Hold it back, and you give up the chance to compress decades of learning into years. Regulation, he argues, has to be specific to intellectual property and geography, because a single rule set cannot govern cultures, religions, and laws that differ across continents. Even within the United States, 50 states carry 50 different mentalities. "If you don't, it'll be very, very dangerous," he said.

The energy AI will demand worries him less than where it will come from. He pointed to the United Kingdom, where energy-efficient homes power themselves, feed the surplus to the grid, and earn the homeowner a check. That, plus geothermal, wind, and solar. "We only have one planet, and it's suffering," he said.

Kfuri's hope for a legacy is modest by CEO standards. He wants people to say The Atlas Network educated its customers, gave everybody square deals, and looked out for businesses, the economy, and consumers. "That's how I can put my head on the pillow at night," he said.

Every CEO.com Podcast conversation ends with the same question, built on the belief that the chances one gives matter as much as the chances one takes. Kfuri's answer was a friend from his years in the Washington, D.C. area. Kfuri had a corporate job and a young family, and leaving that stability felt like free fall. The friend put him on salary for a shared project so it would not be. Several years of trial and error followed, not a rocket ride. But that bet made him a full-time entrepreneur. "It was with his ability and confidence that he put in me that I was able to kind of leave the corporate world," Kfuri said.

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to Atlas Network
00:00:57 Kerim's Journey to Becoming CEO
00:03:08 Leadership Lessons in Supply Chain Management
00:05:08 Navigating Tariffs and Trade Challenges
00:06:35 The Role of AI in Supply Chains
00:08:31 Energy Implications of AI
00:10:51 Future of Tariffs and Trade Agreements
00:12:50 Kerim's Daily Routine
00:13:52 Reading Recommendations
00:14:45 Kerim's Legacy and Moral Compass
00:15:35 The Chance That Changed Kerim's Life
```

```vtt
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And<00:03:25.223> I<00:03:25.255> said<00:03:25.560> it<00:03:25.640> was<00:03:25.800> how<00:03:26.041> to<00:03:26.137> manage<00:03:26.682> chaos.

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Because<00:03:28.269> the<00:03:28.365> reality<00:03:28.990> of<00:03:29.086> it<00:03:29.230> is,<00:03:29.423> is<00:03:29.567> that<00:03:29.888> in<00:03:29.968> our<00:03:30.128> personal<00:03:30.673> lives<00:03:31.090> and<00:03:31.170> in<00:03:31.314> our<00:03:31.410> business<00:03:31.795> lives,<00:03:32.452> you're<00:03:32.612> always<00:03:32.853> gonna<00:03:33.013> have<00:03:33.173> these<00:03:33.398> curveballs.

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And<00:03:34.776> in<00:03:34.856> the<00:03:35.001> world<00:03:35.257> of<00:03:35.337> supply<00:03:35.818> chain,<00:03:36.219> and<00:03:36.299> I,<00:03:36.539> I<00:03:36.620> wrote<00:03:36.844> a<00:03:36.940> book<00:03:37.116> about<00:03:37.421> it<00:03:37.501> called<00:03:37.677> Supply<00:03:38.142> Chain<00:03:38.607> Ups<00:03:38.864> and<00:03:39.024> Downs,<00:03:39.970> literally<00:03:40.611> because<00:03:40.803> it's<00:03:40.947> a<00:03:41.027> rollercoaster<00:03:41.733> ride<00:03:42.053> of<00:03:42.214> ups<00:03:42.390> and<00:03:42.550> downs.

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How<00:03:43.512> do<00:03:43.592> you<00:03:43.688> manage<00:03:44.137> that<00:03:44.393> way<00:03:44.697> when<00:03:45.178> anything<00:03:45.595> and<00:03:45.691> everything<00:03:45.995> can<00:03:46.156> go<00:03:46.316> wrong?

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The<00:03:46.780> controllable<00:03:47.582> things<00:03:48.479> and<00:03:48.527> then<00:03:48.623> the<00:03:48.864> uncontrollable<00:03:49.761> things,<00:03:50.241> you<00:03:50.306> know,<00:03:50.866> a<00:03:50.882> pandemic,<00:03:52.244> political<00:03:52.725> environment,<00:03:53.751> wars,<00:03:54.808> Mother<00:03:55.145> Nature,<00:03:56.010> a<00:03:56.026> million<00:03:56.491> different<00:03:56.811> things<00:03:56.971> that<00:03:57.131> you<00:03:57.196> could<00:03:57.372> think<00:03:57.596> through.

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How<00:03:58.173> do<00:03:58.237> you<00:03:58.333> manage<00:03:58.670> it?

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And<00:03:59.535> the<00:03:59.679> way<00:03:59.855> that<00:04:00.000> you<00:04:00.176> do<00:04:00.416> that<00:04:00.977> and<00:04:01.057> the<00:04:01.137> way<00:04:01.297> that<00:04:01.362> you<00:04:01.394> have<00:04:01.554> to<00:04:01.778> lead<00:04:02.179> in<00:04:02.259> those<00:04:02.563> scenarios<00:04:03.204> is<00:04:03.445> one,<00:04:04.214> to<00:04:04.262> have<00:04:04.438> a<00:04:04.566> cool<00:04:04.887> head.

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You<00:04:05.624> have<00:04:05.944> to<00:04:06.088> basically<00:04:06.986> just<00:04:07.210> go<00:04:07.450> into<00:04:07.723> it<00:04:07.851> understanding<00:04:08.572> that<00:04:09.069> you're<00:04:09.213> going<00:04:09.325> to<00:04:09.469> work<00:04:09.710> towards<00:04:09.934> the<00:04:10.030> best<00:04:10.334> outcome.

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2,<00:04:11.697> realize<00:04:12.258> that<00:04:12.355> there's<00:04:12.595> always<00:04:12.900> an<00:04:12.980> opportunity<00:04:13.638> and<00:04:13.718> there's<00:04:13.942> always<00:04:14.215> a<00:04:14.263> solution.

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You<00:04:15.402> just<00:04:15.578> have<00:04:15.819> to<00:04:16.107> think<00:04:16.444> through<00:04:16.749> it<00:04:16.925> and<00:04:17.085> work<00:04:17.390> your<00:04:17.486> way<00:04:17.647> through<00:04:18.032> it.

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3,<00:04:19.635> you<00:04:19.667> have<00:04:19.812> to<00:04:20.052> always<00:04:20.453> have<00:04:20.999> alternatives,<00:04:21.897> and<00:04:21.977> you<00:04:22.137> can't<00:04:22.522> just<00:04:22.859> have<00:04:23.019> this<00:04:23.180> mentality<00:04:23.901> of,<00:04:24.366> if<00:04:24.527> it<00:04:24.607> ain't<00:04:24.863> broke,<00:04:25.248> why<00:04:25.425> fix<00:04:25.810> it,<00:04:25.874> or<00:04:25.986> don't<00:04:26.227> rock<00:04:26.547> the<00:04:26.628> boat.

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Especially<00:04:27.606> in<00:04:27.734> this<00:04:27.910> industry,<00:04:28.873> you<00:04:29.017> consistently<00:04:29.659> need<00:04:29.787> to<00:04:29.835> be<00:04:30.059> looking<00:04:30.316> for,<00:04:31.102> um,<00:04:32.144> ways<00:04:32.706> to<00:04:33.042> be<00:04:33.523> either<00:04:33.764> more<00:04:33.989> efficient<00:04:34.646> or<00:04:34.806> ways<00:04:35.288> to<00:04:35.384> be<00:04:35.528> disruption-proof.

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And,<00:04:37.436> and<00:04:37.757> finally,<00:04:38.734> you're<00:04:38.958> either<00:04:39.231> disrupting<00:04:40.112> or<00:04:40.240> you're<00:04:40.417> being<00:04:40.721> disrupted.

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It's,<00:04:42.099> it's<00:04:42.259> one<00:04:42.484> or<00:04:42.516> the<00:04:42.740> other<00:04:42.980> in<00:04:43.141> this<00:04:43.301> space<00:04:43.765> as<00:04:43.926> well.

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So<00:04:44.967> it,<00:04:45.144> it's<00:04:45.240> a<00:04:45.288> mixture<00:04:45.640> of<00:04:45.929> all<00:04:46.169> of<00:04:46.249> those<00:04:46.490> different<00:04:46.826> philosophies<00:04:47.868> and<00:04:47.948> being<00:04:48.268> nimble<00:04:48.749> and<00:04:48.973> agile<00:04:50.015> and<00:04:50.511> being<00:04:50.832> adapting<00:04:51.874> that<00:04:52.114> really<00:04:52.595> kind<00:04:52.819> of<00:04:52.979> pulls<00:04:53.380> you<00:04:53.620> through<00:04:54.437> a<00:04:54.517> tumultuous<00:04:55.335> environment,<00:04:56.120> whether<00:04:56.360> it's<00:04:56.536> in<00:04:56.665> life<00:04:56.985> or<00:04:57.017> in<00:04:57.161> business.

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How<00:04:58.139> are<00:04:58.347> you,<00:04:59.068> uh,<00:04:59.949> leading<00:05:00.350> through<00:05:00.590> all<00:05:00.687> these<00:05:00.927> tariff<00:05:01.344> stuff?

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And<00:05:01.872> we're<00:05:01.968> talking<00:05:02.289> on<00:05:02.369> a<00:05:02.449> day<00:05:02.609> where<00:05:02.770> it<00:05:02.802> seems<00:05:03.090> like<00:05:03.234> the<00:05:03.330> China<00:05:03.651> thing<00:05:04.116> May,<00:05:04.677> at<00:05:04.757> least<00:05:04.933> there's<00:05:05.110> a<00:05:05.174> 90-day<00:05:05.815> pause<00:05:06.216> and<00:05:06.280> we'll<00:05:06.377> see<00:05:06.441> what<00:05:06.521> happens.

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But<00:05:07.820> I<00:05:07.836> mean,<00:05:08.140> this<00:05:08.365> has<00:05:08.461> been<00:05:08.621> a<00:05:08.846> wild<00:05:09.102> time<00:05:09.503> for<00:05:10.770> supply<00:05:11.187> chains<00:05:11.668> and<00:05:11.828> tariffs<00:05:12.389> and<00:05:12.774> trade<00:05:13.191> and<00:05:13.271> everything.

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How<00:05:14.169> have<00:05:14.378> you<00:05:14.474> thought<00:05:14.730> about<00:05:15.035> this?

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Well,<00:05:16.157> not<00:05:16.398> only<00:05:16.622> have<00:05:16.799> I<00:05:16.943> thought<00:05:17.216> about<00:05:17.520> it,<00:05:17.600> but<00:05:17.825> I've<00:05:17.905> had<00:05:18.081> to<00:05:18.162> speak<00:05:18.627> a<00:05:18.643> lot<00:05:18.867> about<00:05:19.268> it.

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I<00:05:19.605> actually,<00:05:20.230> I'm<00:05:20.711> consistently<00:05:21.368> being<00:05:21.673> asked<00:05:21.930> to<00:05:22.010> be<00:05:22.234> on,<00:05:23.132> you<00:05:23.212> know,<00:05:23.357> large-scale<00:05:23.854> television<00:05:24.351> networks<00:05:24.912> and<00:05:25.056> writing<00:05:25.377> about<00:05:25.698> it.

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And<00:05:25.938> I<00:05:26.259> just<00:05:26.499> came<00:05:26.740> from<00:05:26.900> a<00:05:26.980> conference<00:05:28.023> in<00:05:28.183> Cleveland,<00:05:28.808> which<00:05:28.985> is<00:05:29.065> the<00:05:29.209> third<00:05:29.610> largest<00:05:30.267> US-based<00:05:30.829> manufacturing<00:05:31.566> city.

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Where<00:05:33.059> I<00:05:33.219> was<00:05:33.332> a<00:05:33.396> keynote<00:05:34.102> talking<00:05:34.456> about<00:05:34.761> this.

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And<00:05:35.885> I,<00:05:36.190> and<00:05:36.270> I<00:05:36.367> really<00:05:36.672> discussed<00:05:37.330> kind<00:05:37.507> of<00:05:37.731> 5<00:05:38.133> ways<00:05:38.615> to<00:05:38.759> manage<00:05:39.257> tariffs.

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And<00:05:39.899> what<00:05:40.060> it<00:05:40.204> was<00:05:40.541> is<00:05:40.686> it<00:05:40.782> was<00:05:41.409> either<00:05:41.601> absorption<00:05:42.227> of<00:05:42.308> the<00:05:42.388> tariffs,<00:05:43.335> who's<00:05:43.528> going<00:05:43.624> to<00:05:43.673> absorb<00:05:44.154> it?

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You<00:05:44.636> know,<00:05:44.941> you<00:05:45.198> are,<00:05:45.616> the<00:05:45.776> factory<00:05:46.386> is,<00:05:46.868> a<00:05:46.900> mixture<00:05:47.446> of<00:05:47.526> the<00:05:47.671> consumer,<00:05:48.393> you<00:05:48.650> and<00:05:48.731> the,<00:05:49.116> you<00:05:49.212> know,<00:05:49.469> supplier.

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Who<00:05:50.401> does<00:05:50.577> the<00:05:50.674> absorption?

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That's<00:05:51.621> one.

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Deferral<00:05:53.146> of<00:05:53.227> the<00:05:53.307> tariffs.

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Can<00:05:53.933> you<00:05:54.094> push<00:05:54.254> them<00:05:54.415> off<00:05:54.832> or<00:05:54.913> can<00:05:55.057> you<00:05:55.154> delay<00:05:55.475> shipping<00:05:56.197> and,<00:05:56.695> or<00:05:56.759> bring<00:05:57.016> it<00:05:57.064> into<00:05:57.241> US<00:05:57.626> bonded<00:05:57.964> warehouses<00:05:58.686> and<00:05:58.750> then<00:05:58.911> ship<00:05:59.152> them<00:05:59.248> out<00:05:59.425> as<00:05:59.553> you<00:05:59.650> need<00:05:59.955> it?

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That's<00:06:00.533> another<00:06:00.854> thing.

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Working<00:06:01.899> through<00:06:01.995> your<00:06:02.204> terms<00:06:02.606> and<00:06:02.702> conditions<00:06:03.425> to<00:06:03.843> basically<00:06:04.228> string<00:06:04.614> along<00:06:04.871> your<00:06:05.032> cash<00:06:05.353> flow.

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So<00:06:05.819> you<00:06:05.931> manage<00:06:06.317> the<00:06:06.478> tariffs<00:06:06.960> and<00:06:07.040> then<00:06:07.265> kind<00:06:07.426> of<00:06:07.506> work<00:06:07.747> through<00:06:07.908> payment<00:06:08.245> terms<00:06:08.647> to<00:06:08.791> help<00:06:08.968> you<00:06:09.113> out<00:06:09.225> in<00:06:09.305> that<00:06:09.595> way.

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Pricing<00:06:10.478> mechanisms.

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Are<00:06:11.603> you<00:06:11.860> underpricing<00:06:12.519> your<00:06:12.663> goods<00:06:12.969> right<00:06:13.145> now?

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And<00:06:13.467> maybe<00:06:13.788> there's<00:06:14.093> hidden<00:06:14.350> benefits<00:06:14.832> and<00:06:14.913> values<00:06:15.379> you<00:06:15.459> haven't<00:06:15.636> been<00:06:15.796> talking<00:06:16.182> about,<00:06:16.423> and<00:06:16.520> can<00:06:16.664> you<00:06:16.761> bring<00:06:17.002> those<00:06:17.387> up?

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And<00:06:17.612> then<00:06:17.805> finally,<00:06:18.769> the<00:06:18.849> last<00:06:19.154> one<00:06:19.267> is<00:06:19.412> alternative<00:06:19.894> supply<00:06:20.359> chains.

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But<00:06:20.858> those<00:06:21.099> were<00:06:21.179> like<00:06:21.420> 5<00:06:21.998> main<00:06:23.011> areas<00:06:23.428> and<00:06:23.589> topics<00:06:24.135> that<00:06:24.232> I<00:06:24.312> was<00:06:24.714> digging<00:06:25.099> into<00:06:25.581> each<00:06:25.822> one<00:06:25.999> of<00:06:26.079> those.

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To<00:06:26.867> really<00:06:27.124> be<00:06:27.365> able<00:06:27.590> to<00:06:27.847> present<00:06:28.248> some<00:06:28.409> potential<00:06:28.875> opportunities<00:06:29.534> and<00:06:29.614> solutions.

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How<00:06:31.526> are<00:06:31.606> you<00:06:31.703> thinking<00:06:32.008> about<00:06:32.329> AI?

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I'm<00:06:32.827> sure<00:06:32.988> a<00:06:33.068> lot<00:06:33.229> of<00:06:33.309> people<00:06:33.534> are<00:06:33.936> asking<00:06:34.257> you<00:06:34.337> about<00:06:34.578> that<00:06:34.755> as<00:06:34.900> well.

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I<00:06:36.683> mean,<00:06:36.908> AI<00:06:37.326> in<00:06:37.406> my<00:06:37.583> mind<00:06:38.274> is—<00:06:39.816> there's<00:06:40.057> two<00:06:40.218> sides<00:06:40.603> of<00:06:40.684> it.

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One,<00:06:41.808> use<00:06:42.001> it<00:06:42.130> as<00:06:42.242> a<00:06:42.371> tool,<00:06:42.692> not<00:06:42.869> a<00:06:42.949> crutch.

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That's<00:06:44.234> the<00:06:44.379> first<00:06:44.716> one.

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But<00:06:45.760> the<00:06:45.841> second<00:06:46.403> thing<00:06:46.628> is,<00:06:46.805> is<00:06:46.965> can<00:06:47.271> AI<00:06:47.833> transition<00:06:48.476> from<00:06:48.636> being<00:06:48.877> a<00:06:48.974> tool<00:06:49.375> to<00:06:49.520> being<00:06:49.713> a<00:06:49.841> teacher?

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And<00:06:50.677> so<00:06:51.062> it's<00:06:51.287> this<00:06:51.866> double-edged<00:06:52.444> sword.

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That<00:06:53.697> I<00:06:53.794> think<00:06:53.938> that<00:06:54.035> we<00:06:54.195> play<00:06:54.581> with<00:06:54.902> when<00:06:54.999> it<00:06:55.143> comes<00:06:55.400> to<00:06:55.545> this<00:06:56.284> technology,<00:06:57.650> where<00:06:57.811> on<00:06:57.971> one<00:06:58.228> side<00:06:59.241> you<00:06:59.337> want<00:06:59.465> to<00:06:59.723> overuse<00:07:00.301> it<00:07:00.863> and<00:07:01.008> then<00:07:01.120> you<00:07:01.201> become<00:07:01.731> overly<00:07:02.068> dependent<00:07:02.952> and<00:07:03.097> then<00:07:03.338> you<00:07:03.772> forego—<00:07:05.346> what<00:07:05.459> are<00:07:05.523> you<00:07:05.748> losing<00:07:06.085> in<00:07:06.166> that<00:07:06.326> process?

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You<00:07:07.290> may<00:07:07.435> be<00:07:07.531> losing<00:07:07.853> creativity.

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You<00:07:08.656> may<00:07:08.817> be<00:07:08.977> losing<00:07:09.684> the<00:07:09.781> ability<00:07:10.182> to<00:07:10.247> make<00:07:10.488> those<00:07:10.745> mistakes<00:07:11.468> that<00:07:11.629> end<00:07:11.773> up<00:07:11.870> being<00:07:12.111> breakthroughs.

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Right.

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But<00:07:14.135> at<00:07:14.264> the<00:07:14.344> same<00:07:14.746> time,<00:07:15.629> you<00:07:15.726> need<00:07:15.919> to<00:07:16.224> sort<00:07:16.465> of<00:07:16.674> let<00:07:17.477> AI<00:07:18.216> be<00:07:18.923> a<00:07:19.662> a<00:07:19.694> monster<00:07:20.369> out<00:07:20.481> of<00:07:20.545> the<00:07:20.690> cage<00:07:21.669> so<00:07:21.750> that<00:07:21.910> it<00:07:21.990> can<00:07:22.151> maybe<00:07:22.472> be<00:07:22.633> able<00:07:22.825> to<00:07:22.938> show<00:07:23.435> us<00:07:23.741> all<00:07:23.837> the<00:07:24.078> things<00:07:24.897> or<00:07:25.025> accelerate<00:07:26.470> our<00:07:27.193> life<00:07:27.385> cycles<00:07:28.317> and<00:07:29.473> knowledge<00:07:30.099> base<00:07:30.420> in<00:07:30.581> ways<00:07:30.822> that<00:07:30.982> human<00:07:31.367> beings<00:07:31.705> would<00:07:31.865> take<00:07:32.267> decades<00:07:32.909> to<00:07:33.069> do.

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So<00:07:34.258> I<00:07:34.354> find<00:07:34.675> it<00:07:34.739> to<00:07:34.900> be<00:07:35.317> a<00:07:35.382> very<00:07:35.703> sort<00:07:36.024> of<00:07:36.602> tug<00:07:36.859> of<00:07:37.164> war<00:07:38.047> around<00:07:38.850> my<00:07:39.010> feelings<00:07:39.556> on<00:07:39.717> AI,<00:07:40.680> because<00:07:41.804> on<00:07:41.901> one<00:07:42.141> side,<00:07:43.089> we're<00:07:43.667> losing<00:07:44.052> a<00:07:44.068> lot.

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And<00:07:45.176> on<00:07:45.256> the<00:07:45.352> other<00:07:45.512> side,<00:07:45.833> we<00:07:45.977> could<00:07:46.074> be<00:07:46.298> gaining<00:07:46.619> an<00:07:46.779> infinite<00:07:47.212> amount.

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So<00:07:48.302> this<00:07:48.382> is<00:07:48.478> where<00:07:48.622> I<00:07:48.783> think<00:07:49.103> that<00:07:49.264> there's<00:07:49.504> going<00:07:49.632> to<00:07:49.696> need<00:07:50.001> to<00:07:50.081> be<00:07:50.257> some<00:07:50.562> levels<00:07:50.899> of<00:07:51.043> regulation<00:07:52.085> and<00:07:52.245> temperance<00:07:52.950> around<00:07:53.303> it.

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I<00:07:54.233> think<00:07:54.425> it<00:07:54.569> needs<00:07:54.874> to<00:07:54.970> be<00:07:55.916> IP<00:07:56.429> specific.

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I<00:07:57.455> think<00:07:57.519> it<00:07:57.615> needs<00:07:57.759> to<00:07:57.856> be<00:07:57.936> like<00:07:58.176> geographic<00:07:59.058> because<00:07:59.924> you<00:08:00.084> can't<00:08:00.340> have<00:08:00.485> single<00:08:01.062> rule<00:08:01.286> sets<00:08:02.024> for<00:08:02.649> what<00:08:02.825> goes<00:08:03.210> in<00:08:03.450> Africa,<00:08:03.835> maybe<00:08:04.059> doesn't<00:08:04.268> go<00:08:04.428> in<00:08:04.508> the<00:08:04.588> United<00:08:04.973> States,<00:08:05.390> doesn't<00:08:05.614> go<00:08:05.791> in<00:08:05.855> the<00:08:05.935> Middle<00:08:06.255> East,<00:08:06.496> doesn't<00:08:06.752> go<00:08:06.897> in<00:08:07.057> Europe.

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And<00:08:07.474> then<00:08:07.618> specifically<00:08:08.355> even<00:08:08.532> in<00:08:08.596> the<00:08:08.660> United<00:08:09.061> States,<00:08:09.718> we<00:08:09.782> have<00:08:09.958> 50<00:08:10.215> states<00:08:10.984> and<00:08:11.401> every<00:08:11.577> state<00:08:11.962> has<00:08:12.106> its<00:08:12.283> own<00:08:12.443> different<00:08:12.908> mentalities<00:08:13.645> and<00:08:13.726> regulations<00:08:14.447> and<00:08:14.607> rules.

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So<00:08:15.393> how<00:08:15.569> can<00:08:15.713> you<00:08:15.809> just<00:08:15.986> apply<00:08:16.371> singular<00:08:16.900> rulesets<00:08:17.349> across<00:08:17.799> all<00:08:17.911> of<00:08:18.039> AI,<00:08:18.441> especially<00:08:18.922> when<00:08:19.099> things<00:08:19.340> of<00:08:19.500> culture<00:08:19.902> or<00:08:20.367> religion<00:08:21.025> or<00:08:21.266> rules,<00:08:22.213> laws<00:08:22.775> come<00:08:22.888> into<00:08:23.032> play.

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These<00:08:24.397> are<00:08:24.557> things<00:08:24.782> that<00:08:24.878> I<00:08:25.039> think<00:08:25.216> are<00:08:25.296> not<00:08:26.387> being<00:08:26.644> as<00:08:26.869> well<00:08:27.447> carefully<00:08:27.929> thought<00:08:28.314> out.

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And<00:08:28.731> if<00:08:28.956> you<00:08:29.293> don't,<00:08:30.401> it'll<00:08:30.513> be<00:08:30.658> very<00:08:31.123> dangerous.

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What<00:08:32.087> are<00:08:32.167> you<00:08:32.408> thinking<00:08:32.665> on<00:08:32.809> the<00:08:33.050> energy<00:08:33.371> implications<00:08:33.949> of<00:08:34.093> AI<00:08:34.591> and<00:08:34.736> how<00:08:34.832> much<00:08:35.137> energy<00:08:35.474> is<00:08:35.619> going<00:08:35.715> to<00:08:35.795> be<00:08:35.891> needed<00:08:36.582> and<00:08:37.224> kind<00:08:37.320> of<00:08:37.401> that<00:08:37.706> being<00:08:37.946> like<00:08:38.107> a<00:08:38.139> new<00:08:38.428> frontier<00:08:38.990> once<00:08:39.247> again?

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Like<00:08:39.809> how<00:08:39.889> do<00:08:40.033> we,<00:08:40.916> you<00:08:41.013> know,<00:08:41.237> every<00:08:41.430> state,<00:08:41.896> I'm<00:08:42.233> in<00:08:42.297> the<00:08:42.377> state<00:08:42.618> of<00:08:42.698> Utah,<00:08:43.084> we're<00:08:43.180> announcing<00:08:43.822> energy<00:08:44.143> initiatives.

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It<00:08:44.705> seems<00:08:45.010> like<00:08:45.187> every<00:08:45.428> day<00:08:45.989> the<00:08:46.600> President<00:08:46.936> Trump<00:08:47.273> is<00:08:47.593> on<00:08:47.690> a<00:08:47.754> national<00:08:48.219> level.

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I<00:08:48.732> mean,<00:08:49.341> how<00:08:49.453> are<00:08:49.517> you<00:08:49.757> thinking<00:08:49.998> about<00:08:50.158> it<00:08:50.222> from<00:08:50.399> an<00:08:50.799> energy<00:08:51.120> perspective?

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Energy<00:08:52.402> in<00:08:52.483> terms<00:08:52.739> of<00:08:52.803> like<00:08:53.028> actual<00:08:53.428> resources<00:08:54.070> energy,<00:08:54.647> or<00:08:54.727> in<00:08:54.807> terms<00:08:55.112> of<00:08:55.432> what<00:08:55.528> kind<00:08:55.769> of<00:08:55.849> energy?

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Like,<00:08:57.035> you<00:08:57.067> know,<00:08:57.211> to<00:08:57.292> power<00:08:57.837> AI,<00:08:58.654> it's<00:08:58.879> going<00:08:58.991> to<00:08:59.135> be,<00:08:59.536> you<00:08:59.616> know,<00:08:59.776> we<00:08:59.872> need<00:09:00.033> a<00:09:00.177> lot<00:09:00.482> more<00:09:00.979> nuclear<00:09:01.524> power,<00:09:01.860> solar<00:09:02.181> power,<00:09:02.501> like<00:09:02.726> all<00:09:02.886> of<00:09:02.982> these<00:09:03.287> like<00:09:03.543> various<00:09:03.944> initiatives<00:09:04.489> in<00:09:04.569> order<00:09:04.730> to<00:09:04.810> make<00:09:04.986> this<00:09:05.194> happen.

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You<00:09:06.028> saw<00:09:06.188> like<00:09:06.573> Altman<00:09:07.006> and<00:09:07.150> Larry<00:09:07.455> Ellison<00:09:08.096> and<00:09:08.192> a<00:09:08.272> few<00:09:08.449> other<00:09:08.673> people<00:09:09.074> announced<00:09:09.539> that<00:09:09.619> they<00:09:09.699> were<00:09:09.731> investing<00:09:10.180> like<00:09:10.356> $500<00:09:10.821> billion<00:09:11.158> in<00:09:11.318> energy.

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It<00:09:12.344> just<00:09:12.472> seems<00:09:12.600> like<00:09:12.761> energy<00:09:13.242> is<00:09:13.306> going<00:09:13.386> to<00:09:13.482> become<00:09:13.803> like<00:09:14.043> the<00:09:14.203> big<00:09:14.428> things,<00:09:14.700> like<00:09:14.845> you<00:09:15.005> need<00:09:15.326> in<00:09:15.470> order<00:09:15.646> to<00:09:15.790> power<00:09:16.271> these,<00:09:16.832> um,<00:09:17.313> AI<00:09:17.570> chips<00:09:17.971> and<00:09:18.067> everything<00:09:18.371> that<00:09:18.532> AI's<00:09:18.836> doing,<00:09:19.734> like<00:09:19.959> in,<00:09:20.215> in<00:09:20.360> the<00:09:20.392> state<00:09:20.632> of<00:09:20.761> Utah,<00:09:20.953> they're<00:09:21.097> saying<00:09:21.338> just<00:09:21.578> a<00:09:21.659> couple<00:09:21.979> of<00:09:22.060> these<00:09:22.220> data<00:09:22.460> centers<00:09:22.845> is<00:09:22.942> like<00:09:23.166> all<00:09:23.342> of<00:09:23.487> the<00:09:23.583> power<00:09:23.904> that<00:09:24.128> Utah<00:09:24.369> currently<00:09:24.690> has<00:09:24.930> right<00:09:25.026> now.

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Yeah.

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I<00:09:25.860> mean,<00:09:26.053> I,<00:09:26.229> I<00:09:26.309> think,<00:09:26.726> I<00:09:26.854> think<00:09:27.175> that<00:09:28.073> it's<00:09:28.169> a<00:09:28.218> very<00:09:28.618> good<00:09:28.779> question<00:09:29.500> and<00:09:29.597> I<00:09:29.741> think<00:09:29.998> the<00:09:30.382> answer<00:09:30.799> to<00:09:31.040> it<00:09:31.120> is,<00:09:32.082> is<00:09:32.387> we<00:09:32.563> need<00:09:32.804> to<00:09:33.028> work<00:09:33.510> on<00:09:33.686> more<00:09:34.103> effective<00:09:35.594> alternative<00:09:36.156> energy<00:09:36.492> sources<00:09:37.855> because<00:09:38.882> as<00:09:39.202> consumers,<00:09:40.004> we're<00:09:40.100> only<00:09:40.277> going<00:09:40.373> to<00:09:40.566> use<00:09:40.806> more<00:09:41.047> and<00:09:41.127> more<00:09:41.303> energy,<00:09:41.848> whether<00:09:42.025> it's<00:09:42.185> in<00:09:42.249> the<00:09:42.281> supply<00:09:42.730> chain<00:09:42.907> logistics<00:09:43.548> or<00:09:43.773> AI<00:09:44.110> as<00:09:44.206> you're<00:09:44.334> bringing<00:09:44.591> it<00:09:44.735> up.

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But<00:09:45.713> we<00:09:45.857> only<00:09:46.017> have<00:09:46.177> one<00:09:46.418> planet<00:09:46.914> and<00:09:47.010> it's<00:09:47.331> suffering,<00:09:48.180> right?

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We<00:09:48.436> have<00:09:48.741> ozone<00:09:49.141> issues,<00:09:49.782> you<00:09:49.814> know,<00:09:49.959> we<00:09:50.023> have<00:09:50.183> all<00:09:50.359> kinds<00:09:50.696> of<00:09:51.625> climate<00:09:51.961> change<00:09:52.282> related<00:09:53.163> problems.

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So<00:09:54.429> if<00:09:54.525> we're<00:09:54.669> going<00:09:54.765> to<00:09:54.845> need<00:09:55.326> that<00:09:55.550> much<00:09:55.791> more<00:09:56.063> infrastructure<00:09:56.832> and<00:09:57.073> power,<00:09:57.970> we<00:09:58.210> really<00:09:58.531> are<00:09:58.675> going<00:09:58.771> to<00:09:58.851> need<00:09:59.075> to<00:09:59.155> figure<00:09:59.476> out<00:09:59.572> how<00:09:59.732> to<00:09:59.876> harness<00:10:00.357> what<00:10:00.453> we've<00:10:00.614> got,<00:10:01.094> which<00:10:01.270> is<00:10:01.495> the<00:10:01.639> geothermal,<00:10:02.456> which<00:10:02.696> is<00:10:03.321> the<00:10:03.482> wind,<00:10:03.978> which<00:10:04.219> is<00:10:04.379> the<00:10:04.459> sun,<00:10:05.100> which<00:10:05.260> is<00:10:05.420> these<00:10:05.645> clean<00:10:05.965> energy<00:10:06.318> sources,<00:10:07.407> and<00:10:07.888> even<00:10:08.849> energy<00:10:09.330> that's<00:10:09.891> created<00:10:10.451> in<00:10:10.531> our<00:10:10.772> own<00:10:10.932> homes<00:10:11.413> every<00:10:11.589> single<00:10:11.909> day<00:10:12.070> that<00:10:12.214> can<00:10:12.374> then<00:10:12.534> feed<00:10:13.496> to<00:10:13.608> a<00:10:13.672> central,<00:10:14.635> you<00:10:14.716> know,<00:10:15.181> mechanism<00:10:15.679> that<00:10:15.823> can<00:10:15.983> then<00:10:16.080> distribute<00:10:16.642> out<00:10:16.802> energy.

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They<00:10:17.283> do<00:10:17.444> that<00:10:17.669> in<00:10:17.749> the<00:10:17.845> UK<00:10:18.487> and<00:10:18.584> in<00:10:18.712> other<00:10:18.953> places<00:10:19.434> where<00:10:20.477> these<00:10:20.718> energy,<00:10:21.761> um,<00:10:22.355> efficient<00:10:22.805> homes<00:10:23.703> generate<00:10:24.105> enough<00:10:24.329> power<00:10:24.730> for<00:10:24.971> their<00:10:25.148> own<00:10:25.405> home,<00:10:26.255> and<00:10:26.335> then<00:10:26.512> whatever<00:10:26.833> is<00:10:27.058> left<00:10:27.379> over<00:10:28.197> goes<00:10:28.518> to<00:10:28.679> the<00:10:28.759> central<00:10:29.240> grid,<00:10:29.642> and<00:10:29.722> then<00:10:29.882> that's<00:10:30.348> used<00:10:30.556> to<00:10:30.685> power<00:10:30.926> other<00:10:31.086> things.

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Then<00:10:31.471> they're<00:10:31.584> written<00:10:31.792> a<00:10:31.873> check.

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A<00:10:32.370> check<00:10:32.691> comes<00:10:32.932> back<00:10:33.173> to<00:10:33.237> these<00:10:33.413> people<00:10:33.686> to<00:10:33.734> say,<00:10:33.959> hey,<00:10:34.681> you<00:10:34.922> powered<00:10:35.339> enough<00:10:35.500> for<00:10:35.644> your<00:10:35.885> house<00:10:36.222> and<00:10:36.318> an<00:10:36.447> extra<00:10:36.768> 20%,<00:10:37.121> here's<00:10:37.682> a<00:10:37.747> check,<00:10:38.790> you<00:10:38.886> know.

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And<00:10:40.556> I<00:10:40.716> feel<00:10:40.796> like<00:10:41.198> that's<00:10:41.663> where<00:10:41.824> we<00:10:41.904> need<00:10:42.064> to<00:10:42.161> really<00:10:42.482> go<00:10:43.365> in<00:10:43.445> order<00:10:43.686> to<00:10:44.071> work<00:10:44.408> towards<00:10:44.874> more<00:10:45.676> communal<00:10:46.479> energy<00:10:47.041> creation<00:10:47.923> and<00:10:48.277> at<00:10:48.405> the<00:10:48.437> same<00:10:48.822> time,<00:10:49.609> alternative<00:10:50.588> mechanisms.

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Going<00:10:51.712> back<00:10:51.872> to<00:10:51.953> tariffs,<00:10:52.242> just,<00:10:52.579> just<00:10:52.755> real<00:10:52.916> quick,<00:10:53.221> how<00:10:53.397> do<00:10:53.461> you<00:10:53.558> think<00:10:53.799> all<00:10:54.039> like<00:10:54.264> by<00:10:54.681> the<00:10:54.842> end<00:10:54.986> of<00:10:55.019> the<00:10:55.243> year,<00:10:56.367> what<00:10:56.463> do<00:10:56.527> you<00:10:56.624> expect?

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Do<00:10:57.234> you<00:10:57.314> expect<00:10:57.651> this<00:10:57.892> much<00:10:58.068> uncertainty?

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Do<00:10:58.775> you<00:10:58.935> think<00:10:59.080> that<00:10:59.160> we're<00:10:59.272> going<00:10:59.369> to<00:10:59.481> have<00:11:00.043> agreements<00:11:00.540> in<00:11:00.621> place<00:11:00.862> with<00:11:01.022> all<00:11:01.102> these<00:11:01.263> countries?

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Like,<00:11:02.146> how<00:11:02.306> are<00:11:02.451> you<00:11:02.611> advising<00:11:03.590> one,<00:11:03.911> your<00:11:04.072> own<00:11:04.232> company<00:11:04.859> and<00:11:05.581> other<00:11:05.822> companies<00:11:06.159> when<00:11:06.255> you<00:11:06.319> go<00:11:06.480> out<00:11:06.608> and<00:11:06.656> speak?

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Yeah,<00:11:07.586> I<00:11:07.763> mean,<00:11:08.404> the<00:11:08.548> point<00:11:08.868> is,<00:11:09.045> is<00:11:09.125> that<00:11:10.230> you<00:11:10.471> have<00:11:10.727> to<00:11:10.887> assume<00:11:11.208> the<00:11:11.352> worst-case<00:11:11.801> scenario,<00:11:12.810> you<00:11:12.858> have<00:11:12.954> to<00:11:13.131> plan<00:11:13.547> for<00:11:13.691> the<00:11:13.772> worst-case<00:11:14.172> scenario,<00:11:15.214> and<00:11:15.358> anything<00:11:15.758> else<00:11:15.919> that's<00:11:16.095> better<00:11:16.351> than<00:11:16.480> that<00:11:16.672> is<00:11:16.800> going<00:11:16.880> to<00:11:16.912> be<00:11:17.056> gravy.

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And<00:11:18.002> that's<00:11:18.178> the<00:11:18.322> way<00:11:18.482> I<00:11:18.499> feel<00:11:18.819> about<00:11:19.075> it<00:11:19.204> today,<00:11:19.460> because<00:11:19.941> it's<00:11:20.165> such<00:11:20.357> an<00:11:20.566> up-and-down<00:11:20.982> mechanism<00:11:21.463> where<00:11:21.703> every<00:11:21.864> single<00:11:22.168> day,<00:11:22.488> week,<00:11:23.129> hour,<00:11:23.850> things<00:11:24.043> are<00:11:24.171> changing.

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And,<00:11:25.934> um,<00:11:26.895> the<00:11:27.071> way<00:11:27.376> that<00:11:27.552> we<00:11:27.792> really<00:11:28.289> safeguard<00:11:28.914> against<00:11:29.315> that<00:11:29.555> is<00:11:29.651> to<00:11:29.795> plan<00:11:30.116> for<00:11:30.260> the<00:11:30.420> worst-case<00:11:31.061> scenario<00:11:32.263> and<00:11:32.359> hope<00:11:32.664> for<00:11:32.792> the<00:11:32.920> best-case<00:11:33.545> outcome.

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So<00:11:35.005> those<00:11:35.246> mechanisms<00:11:35.712> I<00:11:35.809> told<00:11:35.905> you<00:11:35.953> about,<00:11:36.114> those<00:11:36.355> 5<00:11:36.692> ways—<00:11:37.190> absorption,<00:11:37.736> deferral,<00:11:38.925> uh,<00:11:39.343> uh,<00:11:39.567> terms<00:11:39.905> and<00:11:40.049> conditions,<00:11:41.334> pricing<00:11:41.913> and<00:11:42.073> repricing,<00:11:43.021> and<00:11:43.101> then<00:11:43.198> finally<00:11:43.744> alternative<00:11:44.162> supply<00:11:44.627> chains—<00:11:44.884> these<00:11:45.125> are<00:11:45.190> the<00:11:45.270> ways<00:11:45.511> that<00:11:45.607> I<00:11:45.688> think<00:11:45.848> that<00:11:45.929> people<00:11:46.169> need<00:11:46.282> to<00:11:46.410> manage<00:11:46.812> that,<00:11:47.439> their<00:11:47.615> businesses,<00:11:48.884> and<00:11:48.981> determine<00:11:49.462> what's<00:11:49.768> the<00:11:49.864> best<00:11:50.185> mechanism<00:11:50.748> for<00:11:50.989> them,<00:11:51.390> or<00:11:51.535> a<00:11:51.631> combination<00:11:52.193> of<00:11:52.354> all<00:11:52.515> of<00:11:52.595> them.

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Uh,<00:11:54.121> and<00:11:54.282> if<00:11:54.426> it's<00:11:54.522> going<00:11:54.635> to<00:11:54.908> basically<00:11:55.245> go<00:11:55.486> back<00:11:55.872> down<00:11:56.289> to<00:11:57.414> pre-sort<00:11:58.522> of<00:11:58.763> tariff<00:11:59.486> challenge<00:12:00.000> or<00:12:00.209> tariff<00:12:00.610> conflict<00:12:01.189> levels,<00:12:02.216> That<00:12:02.329> would<00:12:02.457> be<00:12:02.617> great.

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But<00:12:04.013> if<00:12:04.157> it<00:12:04.301> doesn't,<00:12:04.638> then<00:12:04.782> you're<00:12:04.879> prepared<00:12:05.440> because<00:12:06.001> the<00:12:06.146> worst<00:12:06.402> thing<00:12:06.547> you<00:12:06.643> can<00:12:06.803> do<00:12:07.220> is<00:12:07.429> just<00:12:07.669> not<00:12:07.926> be<00:12:08.070> prepared<00:12:08.487> at<00:12:08.632> all<00:12:09.530> and<00:12:09.610> just<00:12:09.835> say,<00:12:09.995> hey,<00:12:10.171> you<00:12:10.268> know,<00:12:10.412> it's<00:12:10.556> going<00:12:10.653> to<00:12:10.893> work<00:12:11.134> its<00:12:11.294> way<00:12:11.390> out.

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I'm<00:12:11.871> sure<00:12:12.080> it'll<00:12:12.337> be<00:12:12.497> fine.

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And<00:12:13.684> then<00:12:13.860> that's<00:12:14.165> when<00:12:14.422> you<00:12:14.582> go<00:12:14.742> out<00:12:14.839> of<00:12:14.903> business<00:12:15.849> and<00:12:15.945> people<00:12:16.250> lose<00:12:16.362> their<00:12:16.507> jobs<00:12:17.068> and<00:12:17.212> you<00:12:17.292> don't<00:12:17.421> have<00:12:17.533> products<00:12:17.870> to<00:12:17.966> sell.

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And<00:12:18.896> if<00:12:19.009> you<00:12:19.153> do,<00:12:19.474> they're<00:12:19.634> at<00:12:19.794> really<00:12:20.019> high<00:12:20.276> rates<00:12:20.596> and<00:12:20.677> no<00:12:20.821> one<00:12:20.917> can<00:12:21.094> afford,<00:12:22.264> and<00:12:22.537> it<00:12:22.601> becomes<00:12:22.906> a<00:12:22.986> real<00:12:23.243> mess.

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And<00:12:24.205> that's<00:12:24.590> the<00:12:24.686> challenge<00:12:25.232> too,<00:12:25.568> that<00:12:26.049> my<00:12:26.434> goal<00:12:26.835> is<00:12:26.932> to<00:12:27.092> really<00:12:27.477> look<00:12:27.653> to<00:12:27.798> be<00:12:28.455> a<00:12:28.519> relatable<00:12:29.241> voice<00:12:29.578> in<00:12:29.658> the<00:12:29.738> realm<00:12:29.915> of<00:12:29.979> supply<00:12:30.460> chain.

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And<00:12:31.182> to<00:12:31.262> give<00:12:31.486> practical<00:12:32.144> real-world<00:12:33.186> knowledge<00:12:33.667> and<00:12:33.747> information<00:12:34.613> and<00:12:34.709> services<00:12:35.431> if<00:12:35.591> companies<00:12:36.072> need<00:12:36.377> it<00:12:37.274> to<00:12:37.419> help<00:12:37.675> them<00:12:37.980> to<00:12:38.076> bridge<00:12:38.878> in<00:12:39.022> difficult<00:12:39.439> times<00:12:39.984> and<00:12:40.080> in<00:12:40.160> positive<00:12:40.706> times<00:12:40.978> and<00:12:41.106> take<00:12:41.283> advantage<00:12:41.619> of<00:12:41.748> the<00:12:41.828> global<00:12:42.165> economy.

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And,<00:12:43.046> and<00:12:43.111> that's<00:12:43.848> my<00:12:43.944> main<00:12:44.169> focus.

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What<00:12:45.371> does<00:12:45.548> a<00:12:45.676> typical<00:12:46.077> day<00:12:46.237> look<00:12:46.413> like<00:12:46.654> for<00:12:46.734> you?

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Oh<00:12:48.257> my<00:12:48.418> gosh.

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A<00:12:50.245> typical<00:12:50.742> day.

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That's<00:12:51.865> a<00:12:51.881> very<00:12:52.330> difficult<00:12:52.827> word<00:12:53.292> for,<00:12:53.693> for<00:12:53.837> me<00:12:54.029> to<00:12:54.190> hear.

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I<00:12:54.911> don't<00:12:55.071> really<00:12:55.296> have<00:12:55.552> typical<00:12:56.033> days.

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I<00:12:56.739> have<00:12:57.140> atypical<00:12:57.717> days.

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How<00:12:57.957> does<00:12:58.134> an<00:12:58.342> atypical<00:12:58.919> day<00:12:59.160> look<00:12:59.336> for<00:12:59.545> me?

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These<00:13:00.522> days<00:13:00.779> I'm<00:13:00.923> doing<00:13:01.228> a<00:13:01.388> lot<00:13:01.949> of<00:13:03.247> speaking.

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I'm<00:13:04.272> doing<00:13:04.449> a<00:13:04.593> lot<00:13:04.929> of<00:13:05.090> podcasts,<00:13:06.211> writing,<00:13:07.077> and<00:13:07.253> really<00:13:07.493> just<00:13:07.653> trying<00:13:07.878> to<00:13:07.958> get<00:13:08.070> the<00:13:08.214> word<00:13:08.519> out<00:13:08.695> there<00:13:08.919> because<00:13:09.272> it's<00:13:09.512> a<00:13:09.576> really<00:13:09.817> complicated,<00:13:10.458> difficult<00:13:10.858> time,<00:13:11.804> and<00:13:11.980> I<00:13:12.124> want<00:13:12.269> to<00:13:12.381> just<00:13:12.605> be<00:13:12.717> able<00:13:12.846> to<00:13:13.022> be<00:13:13.182> as<00:13:13.262> impactful<00:13:13.983> as<00:13:14.144> I<00:13:14.288> can<00:13:14.544> be.

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So<00:13:15.249> that's<00:13:15.506> what<00:13:15.906> these<00:13:16.227> days<00:13:16.788> have<00:13:16.948> been<00:13:17.108> looking<00:13:17.349> like<00:13:17.749> when<00:13:18.070> I'm<00:13:18.294> not<00:13:19.496> running<00:13:19.768> our<00:13:19.993> company<00:13:20.634> and<00:13:20.794> helping<00:13:21.114> our<00:13:21.275> clients<00:13:21.835> and<00:13:21.996> business<00:13:22.476> and<00:13:22.541> all<00:13:22.637> the<00:13:22.717> rest<00:13:22.845> of<00:13:22.957> this<00:13:23.117> kind<00:13:23.294> of<00:13:23.358> stuff,<00:13:23.694> which<00:13:23.855> is<00:13:23.935> a<00:13:24.079> day<00:13:24.319> and<00:13:24.464> night<00:13:24.704> job<00:13:25.105> too.

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Consistently<00:13:26.324> burning<00:13:26.581> the<00:13:26.710> candle<00:13:27.015> on<00:13:27.047> both<00:13:27.352> ends,<00:13:28.477> trying<00:13:28.959> to<00:13:28.991> still<00:13:29.281> have<00:13:29.441> dinner<00:13:29.618> with<00:13:29.779> the<00:13:29.859> family<00:13:30.261> every<00:13:30.438> single<00:13:30.743> night<00:13:31.450> and<00:13:31.868> help<00:13:32.109> with<00:13:32.253> homework<00:13:32.752> and<00:13:32.832> do<00:13:32.977> all<00:13:33.073> that<00:13:33.234> good<00:13:33.410> stuff<00:13:33.780> that<00:13:33.876> you<00:13:33.957> have<00:13:34.182> to<00:13:34.278> do<00:13:34.439> too,<00:13:34.680> to<00:13:34.760> just<00:13:35.162> make<00:13:35.323> sure<00:13:35.483> that<00:13:35.564> you're<00:13:35.724> present<00:13:36.672> in<00:13:36.913> the<00:13:37.010> lives<00:13:37.428> of<00:13:37.572> people<00:13:37.813> that<00:13:37.974> matter.

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And<00:13:39.002> that's<00:13:41.091> it.

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That's<00:13:41.509> what's<00:13:41.670> going<00:13:41.895> on<00:13:42.055> these<00:13:42.232> days.

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That's<00:13:43.437> awesome.

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Only<00:13:44.321> about—<00:13:44.867> only<00:13:45.044> that.

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That's<00:13:46.667> a<00:13:46.876> lot.

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That's<00:13:47.679> a<00:13:47.695> lot.

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What<00:13:48.435> do<00:13:48.499> you<00:13:48.724> read<00:13:49.126> and<00:13:49.286> what<00:13:49.543> reading<00:13:49.849> recommendations<00:13:50.491> would<00:13:50.652> you<00:13:50.732> have<00:13:50.909> for<00:13:51.054> us?

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What<00:13:52.113> do<00:13:52.194> I<00:13:52.274> read?

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I<00:13:53.718> like<00:13:53.959> to<00:13:54.184> read<00:13:54.745> a<00:13:54.906> lot<00:13:55.467> of<00:13:56.366> thought<00:13:56.687> leadership<00:13:57.634> related<00:13:58.131> books.

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I'm<00:14:00.073> in<00:14:00.281> partnership<00:14:00.859> with<00:14:01.084> Daymond<00:14:01.485> John<00:14:02.608> from<00:14:02.785> Shark<00:14:03.106> Tank.

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I<00:14:04.149> like<00:14:04.389> his<00:14:04.630> books.

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I<00:14:05.031> think<00:14:05.192> they're<00:14:05.432> great.

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Power<00:14:06.171> of<00:14:06.395> Broke<00:14:08.064> and<00:14:08.160> so<00:14:08.465> forth,<00:14:08.947> and<00:14:09.605> Rise<00:14:09.926> and<00:14:10.086> Grind.

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Those<00:14:10.904> are<00:14:11.033> good.

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I<00:14:12.236> also<00:14:12.573> tend<00:14:12.814> to<00:14:13.456> like<00:14:13.857> a<00:14:13.937> lot<00:14:14.403> of<00:14:15.205> online,<00:14:16.088> you<00:14:16.120> know,<00:14:16.521> I<00:14:16.585> consume<00:14:17.050> a<00:14:17.066> lot<00:14:17.307> of<00:14:17.468> content<00:14:18.093> online.

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Honestly,<00:14:19.809> through<00:14:20.499> YouTube<00:14:21.316> or<00:14:21.476> through<00:14:22.118> different<00:14:22.438> trending<00:14:22.903> topics<00:14:23.384> that<00:14:23.496> I'm<00:14:23.721> interested<00:14:24.266> in,<00:14:24.586> that's<00:14:24.843> the<00:14:25.243> fastest<00:14:25.724> way<00:14:25.885> for<00:14:26.045> me<00:14:26.125> to<00:14:26.205> kind<00:14:26.462> of<00:14:26.510> digest<00:14:27.728> information,<00:14:28.369> more<00:14:28.545> so<00:14:28.770> than<00:14:29.395> getting<00:14:29.652> into<00:14:30.036> the<00:14:30.132> books,<00:14:31.014> although<00:14:31.238> I<00:14:31.319> have<00:14:31.511> a<00:14:31.639> book<00:14:31.832> or<00:14:31.960> two,<00:14:32.553> so<00:14:33.082> I'm<00:14:33.675> not<00:14:33.883> really<00:14:34.060> doing<00:14:34.300> myself<00:14:34.701> a<00:14:34.717> service<00:14:35.246> by<00:14:35.358> saying<00:14:35.743> that.

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But<00:14:36.160> the<00:14:36.288> reality<00:14:36.705> of<00:14:36.801> it<00:14:36.865> is<00:14:37.089> that<00:14:37.250> that's<00:14:37.426> how<00:14:37.586> I<00:14:37.666> consume<00:14:38.067> information,<00:14:39.029> more<00:14:39.253> online<00:14:39.734> more<00:14:39.830> than<00:14:39.975> anything<00:14:40.295> else.

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Yeah,<00:14:41.433> I<00:14:41.578> think<00:14:41.754> that's<00:14:42.139> true<00:14:42.619> of<00:14:43.020> all<00:14:43.181> of<00:14:43.277> us.

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What<00:14:44.238> legacy<00:14:44.719> do<00:14:44.783> you<00:14:44.864> want<00:14:44.992> to<00:14:45.104> leave<00:14:45.280> behind?

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I<00:14:47.089> want<00:14:47.348> people<00:14:47.834> to<00:14:48.240> say<00:14:49.196> and<00:14:49.293> think<00:14:51.464> Kareem<00:14:52.534> and<00:14:52.680> the<00:14:52.842> Atlas<00:14:53.150> Network<00:14:54.940> were<00:14:55.504> great<00:14:56.068> resources<00:14:57.117> that<00:14:57.616> educated,<00:14:58.358> that<00:14:59.794> gave<00:15:00.100> everybody<00:15:00.939> square<00:15:01.488> deals,<00:15:02.522> that<00:15:02.684> really<00:15:03.007> looked<00:15:03.330> out<00:15:03.508> for<00:15:03.734> people's<00:15:04.235> interests,<00:15:05.043> the<00:15:05.123> interests<00:15:05.527> of<00:15:05.689> businesses,<00:15:06.416> the<00:15:06.561> interests<00:15:07.450> of<00:15:07.563> the<00:15:07.692> economy<00:15:08.662> and<00:15:08.920> for<00:15:09.050> consumers.

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And<00:15:10.278> that<00:15:11.491> we<00:15:11.669> were<00:15:11.814> doing<00:15:11.992> the<00:15:12.073> right<00:15:12.299> thing.

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We<00:15:12.962> were<00:15:13.188> really<00:15:13.528> looking<00:15:13.851> to<00:15:13.997> do<00:15:14.094> the<00:15:14.239> right<00:15:14.481> thing.

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At<00:15:15.497> all<00:15:15.609> steps.

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And<00:15:16.861> that's<00:15:17.181> really<00:15:17.583> how<00:15:17.759> I<00:15:17.904> try<00:15:18.401> to<00:15:19.348> live<00:15:19.749> every<00:15:20.086> day.

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That's<00:15:21.129> what—<00:15:21.369> that's<00:15:21.610> how<00:15:21.995> I<00:15:22.172> can<00:15:22.332> put<00:15:22.573> my<00:15:22.958> head<00:15:23.118> on<00:15:23.215> the<00:15:23.295> pillow<00:15:23.616> at<00:15:23.712> night<00:15:24.097> and<00:15:24.258> live<00:15:24.482> without<00:15:24.739> any<00:15:24.964> real<00:15:25.140> regrets,<00:15:26.327> that<00:15:26.424> I<00:15:26.504> feel<00:15:26.825> as<00:15:26.969> though<00:15:27.082> I'm<00:15:27.370> doing<00:15:27.707> what<00:15:27.868> I<00:15:27.884> should<00:15:28.269> be<00:15:28.413> doing.

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And<00:15:29.456> I<00:15:29.793> think<00:15:30.098> that<00:15:30.291> if<00:15:30.419> you<00:15:30.515> can<00:15:30.660> have<00:15:30.772> a<00:15:30.836> moral<00:15:31.237> compass<00:15:31.783> in<00:15:31.863> your<00:15:32.040> personal<00:15:32.521> and<00:15:32.681> business<00:15:33.147> life,<00:15:33.484> then<00:15:33.708> it's,<00:15:34.029> uh,<00:15:34.591> it's<00:15:34.687> a<00:15:34.751> fulfilling<00:15:35.313> life.

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Finally,<00:15:36.356> we<00:15:36.596> end<00:15:36.917> every<00:15:37.158> interview<00:15:37.575> with<00:15:37.720> the<00:15:37.800> same<00:15:38.057> question,<00:15:38.602> and<00:15:38.698> that<00:15:38.875> is,<00:15:39.019> at<00:15:39.100> CEO.com,<00:15:39.966> we<00:15:40.126> believe<00:15:40.383> the<00:15:40.463> chances<00:15:40.929> one<00:15:41.250> gives<00:15:41.731> is<00:15:41.827> just<00:15:42.004> as<00:15:42.084> important<00:15:42.325> as<00:15:42.453> the<00:15:42.549> chances<00:15:42.934> one<00:15:43.095> takes.

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When<00:15:44.154> you<00:15:44.314> hear<00:15:44.475> that,<00:15:44.699> who<00:15:44.860> gave<00:15:45.036> you<00:15:45.133> a<00:15:45.197> chance<00:15:45.518> to<00:15:45.598> get<00:15:45.758> you<00:15:45.855> to<00:15:45.935> where<00:15:46.144> you<00:15:46.304> are<00:15:46.416> today?

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Who<00:15:47.209> gave<00:15:47.373> me<00:15:47.537> a<00:15:47.618> chance<00:15:48.911> to<00:15:49.009> get<00:15:49.107> me<00:15:49.238> where<00:15:49.402> I<00:15:49.500> am<00:15:49.647> today.

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You<00:15:51.102> know,<00:15:53.749> I<00:15:53.846> had<00:15:54.168> a<00:15:54.233> friend<00:15:54.653> of<00:15:54.717> mine<00:15:55.863> when<00:15:56.008> I<00:15:56.105> lived<00:15:56.331> in<00:15:56.412> the<00:15:56.509> DC<00:15:56.912> area<00:15:57.865> who<00:15:59.656> I<00:15:59.721> was<00:15:59.882> working<00:16:00.124> in<00:16:00.205> a<00:16:00.270> corporate<00:16:00.703> job.

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I<00:16:01.892> basically<00:16:03.017> had<00:16:03.178> a<00:16:03.451> starting<00:16:04.078> a<00:16:04.158> young<00:16:04.480> family<00:16:05.749> and<00:16:06.311> had<00:16:06.569> to<00:16:06.665> make<00:16:06.970> that<00:16:07.195> decision<00:16:07.774> to<00:16:08.095> really<00:16:08.481> just<00:16:09.156> leave<00:16:09.445> the<00:16:09.590> corporate<00:16:09.952> world<00:16:10.759> and<00:16:10.858> become<00:16:11.204> an<00:16:11.336> entrepreneur<00:16:12.110> full-time.

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And,<00:16:13.784> and<00:16:14.009> do<00:16:14.186> that.

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And<00:16:15.375> he<00:16:16.339> gave<00:16:16.676> me<00:16:16.837> that<00:16:17.078> opportunity.

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He<00:16:18.604> basically<00:16:19.167> said,<00:16:20.051> I<00:16:20.195> believe<00:16:20.533> in<00:16:20.613> you.

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I<00:16:20.918> believe<00:16:21.175> in<00:16:21.256> what<00:16:21.400> you're<00:16:21.497> trying<00:16:21.882> to<00:16:21.963> do.

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So<00:16:22.846> we're<00:16:22.959> gonna<00:16:23.168> work<00:16:23.409> on<00:16:23.505> this<00:16:23.666> project.

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We<00:16:24.212> were<00:16:24.293> working<00:16:24.614> on<00:16:24.710> some<00:16:24.871> projects<00:16:25.353> together<00:16:26.237> and<00:16:26.317> he<00:16:26.397> said,<00:16:26.880> you're<00:16:27.024> gonna<00:16:27.137> get<00:16:27.281> paid<00:16:27.522> a<00:16:27.538> salary.

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You're<00:16:28.390> gonna<00:16:28.486> get<00:16:28.647> paid<00:16:28.888> this,<00:16:29.129> that,<00:16:29.370> the<00:16:29.595> other,<00:16:30.431> so<00:16:30.575> that<00:16:30.736> you<00:16:30.897> can<00:16:31.057> feel<00:16:31.218> comfortable<00:16:31.861> to<00:16:32.021> really<00:16:32.262> be<00:16:32.407> able<00:16:32.536> to<00:16:32.728> leave<00:16:33.451> the<00:16:33.950> stable<00:16:34.592> environment<00:16:35.380> or<00:16:35.476> dependencies<00:16:36.344> that<00:16:36.440> you've<00:16:36.585> had<00:16:36.842> in<00:16:36.906> the<00:16:37.067> past<00:16:37.967> and<00:16:38.127> feel<00:16:38.368> good<00:16:38.545> about<00:16:39.252> betting<00:16:39.572> on<00:16:39.716> yourself.

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And<00:16:40.758> it<00:16:40.854> was<00:16:41.078> with<00:16:41.399> his<00:16:42.056> ability<00:16:42.696> and<00:16:42.921> confidence<00:16:44.058> that<00:16:44.154> he<00:16:44.299> put<00:16:44.459> in<00:16:44.539> me<00:16:44.763> that<00:16:44.923> I<00:16:45.020> was<00:16:45.180> able<00:16:45.484> to<00:16:45.644> then<00:16:45.901> kind<00:16:46.141> of<00:16:46.221> leave<00:16:46.381> the<00:16:46.526> corporate<00:16:46.846> world<00:16:47.167> and<00:16:47.247> then<00:16:47.663> moved<00:16:47.968> on<00:16:48.144> from<00:16:48.304> there.

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And<00:16:49.121> it<00:16:49.249> wasn't<00:16:49.586> all,<00:16:50.066> you<00:16:50.163> know,<00:16:50.723> skyrocket<00:16:51.428> to<00:16:51.573> the<00:16:51.653> moon<00:16:51.909> from<00:16:52.053> the<00:16:52.133> beginning.

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Definitely<00:16:53.431> several<00:16:53.816> years<00:16:54.232> of<00:16:54.376> just<00:16:54.617> kind<00:16:54.777> of<00:16:54.857> trials,<00:16:55.274> tribulations,<00:16:56.059> working<00:16:56.459> through<00:16:56.732> things,<00:16:56.972> trying<00:16:57.180> to<00:16:57.276> get<00:16:57.437> things<00:16:57.677> right.

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But<00:16:58.702> ultimately,<00:16:59.439> you<00:16:59.519> know,<00:16:59.616> when<00:16:59.776> I<00:16:59.824> look<00:17:00.000> back<00:17:00.305> on<00:17:00.401> it,<00:17:00.545> I,<00:17:00.785> I,<00:17:01.202> I<00:17:01.362> definitely<00:17:03.044> fondly<00:17:03.589> remember<00:17:04.711> that<00:17:04.951> he<00:17:05.111> gave<00:17:05.287> me<00:17:05.384> that<00:17:05.592> opportunity,<00:17:06.249> and<00:17:06.329> that<00:17:06.489> was<00:17:06.713> an<00:17:06.874> important<00:17:07.370> part<00:17:07.755> of<00:17:07.851> me<00:17:08.412> being<00:17:08.637> a<00:17:08.653> full-time<00:17:09.295> entrepreneur.

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Kareem,<00:17:10.404> thank<00:17:10.565> you<00:17:10.597> so<00:17:10.918> much<00:17:11.544> for<00:17:11.705> coming<00:17:12.010> on<00:17:12.107> the<00:17:12.187> show.

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Means<00:17:12.894> a<00:17:12.910> lot<00:17:13.054> to<00:17:13.135> have<00:17:13.231> had<00:17:13.552> you.

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Best<00:17:14.581> of<00:17:14.677> luck<00:17:14.902> with<00:17:15.014> everything.

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I'm<00:17:15.480> sure<00:17:15.641> we'll<00:17:15.866> have<00:17:15.962> you<00:17:16.042> back<00:17:16.380> as<00:17:16.524> we<00:17:16.685> go,<00:17:16.990> kind<00:17:17.086> of<00:17:17.167> go<00:17:17.327> through<00:17:17.472> this<00:17:17.649> crazy<00:17:18.034> year.

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But<00:17:18.372> thank<00:17:18.596> you<00:17:18.629> so<00:17:18.773> much.

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Seriously,<00:17:19.319> means<00:17:19.512> a<00:17:19.560> lot<00:17:19.657> to<00:17:19.705> have<00:17:19.882> you.

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Yeah,<00:17:20.524> it<00:17:20.621> was<00:17:20.781> an<00:17:20.926> honor<00:17:21.102> to<00:17:21.183> be<00:17:21.343> with<00:17:21.504> you.

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And,<00:17:21.970> uh,<00:17:22.082> sorry<00:17:22.388> it<00:17:22.468> was<00:17:22.629> a<00:17:22.645> little<00:17:22.853> short,<00:17:23.335> but<00:17:24.219> we—<00:17:24.476> I<00:17:24.540> think<00:17:24.717> we<00:17:24.861> got<00:17:25.038> the<00:17:25.118> meat<00:17:25.295> and<00:17:25.424> potatoes<00:17:25.986> out,<00:17:26.243> which<00:17:26.420> is<00:17:26.564> good.

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Thank<00:17:27.207> you<00:17:27.271> so<00:17:27.448> much.

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Loving<00:17:41.459> you<00:17:41.803> makes<00:17:42.212> the<00:17:42.294> stars<00:17:42.622> shine<00:17:43.031> brighter.

```