> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.ceo.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # Code42 CEO Joe Payne - URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/code42-ceo-joe-payne/ - Published: 2024-08-06T16:43:17.000Z - Updated: 2026-08-29T23:34:05.000Z - Description: The former Code42 CEO on the Levandowski case, church groups on Dropbox, and why blocking employees is the wrong answer. - Author: Clint Betts # Nine years, not three When Accel called Joe Payne about Code42 in 2015, he figured the job would take three or four years. Code42 was an endpoint backup company in Minneapolis. Its product, CrashPlan, copied everything on your computer to the cloud, and the market for that was shrinking. Payne liked the people and the technology and thought he could move the business somewhere with a future. "I really thought I could come in there and make it happen, and it would be pretty easy," he said on the CEO.com Podcast. "I'm a smart person, and I'll figure it out, and dah, dah, dah." It took nine years. Part of that was a pandemic nobody planned for. Part of it, he said, was hubris. He had assumed the world would stay put while he fixed the company. "The environment isn't static. It's constantly changing and evolving itself. As you pursue your mission, you have to do a lot of things on the sides and the front." Payne had run software companies before. He was CEO of e-Security, president of the cyber intelligence firm iDefense until VeriSign bought it, and chairman and CEO of Eloqua from 2007 through its NASDAQ IPO and sale to Oracle. He has since sat on the boards of Cornerstone OnDemand, Dealertrack, Workfront, and TrackMaven, and is currently a director at Alkami Technology, according to the company's [proxy filing](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1529274/000152927426000023/alk-20260407.htm?ref=ceo.com). He lives in Washington, D.C., where he grew up, and has never worked for the government, a point he makes early because everyone assumes otherwise. The Code42 turnaround happened in pieces. In August 2017, the company [shut down CrashPlan for Home](https://vimeo.com/228071382?ref=ceo.com) and left the consumer market, with Payne on camera explaining why. In August 2022, it [spun off the rest of CrashPlan](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220803005147/en/Code42-to-Accelerate-Insider-Risk-Management-Solutions-with-CrashPlan-Spin-Off?ref=ceo.com) to Mill Point Capital, sending more than 100 employees and every CrashPlan customer out the door. Payne later [told Nathan Latka](https://getlatka.com/blog/he-hit-120m-in-arr-then-sold-70m-unit-for-250m-today-his-security-saas-is-cash-rich-whats-next/?ref=ceo.com) that CrashPlan was $70 million of the company's $120 million in annual recurring revenue at the time, and that the private equity buyer paid $250 million for it. What was left was Incydr, software that watches how employees move data and flags the moves that look like theft. The example he reaches for is Anthony Levandowski, the Google engineer who took roughly 15,000 files of self-driving car data on his last day, built a company on it, sold the company to Uber, and went to prison. Payne is careful about the word adversary. The people his software watches are employees, colleagues, friends. Most of them are moving a W-2 or a soccer schedule to Dropbox. When customers saw that traffic for the first time and wanted to cut off Dropbox entirely, he would ask whether they had anyone on staff who went to church, because church groups run on Dropbox. The product would watch and score the traffic instead. "Let's not get in their way because there are a few malcontents who are going to do the wrong thing." The conversation took place while Payne was still running the company. In July 2024 [Mimecast announced it was buying Code42](https://www.mimecast.com/resources/press-releases/mimecast-announces-acquisition-of-code42/?ref=ceo.com). He now runs the Enterprise Software CEO Roundtable, a peer group for CEOs of software companies past $100 million, and serves on the board of [First Focus on Children](https://firstfocus.org/about-us/staff-and-board/joe-payne/?ref=ceo.com), a bipartisan advocacy group in Washington. ## The first all-hands Payne does the same thing on the first day of every job. He holds an all-hands, says who he is, what he's done, and what worries him, and takes any question. At Code42, the first questions were about his kids. The third was how much cash the company had in the bank. "And I was like, '$6.5 million, something. I think $6.5\. It's $6.5, right?' I look over at the CFO, and he's just like this. There's this audible murmur in the crowd. And I kind of look around like this: I go, 'Is that not what you expected?' And the person who asked the question goes, 'No one was ever willing to tell us that.'" He told them cash wasn't the problem and then told them what was. He tells his teams everything, including news they don't want, on the theory that employees who know there's a problem while executives pretend there isn't are the demoralized ones. New hires push back on this. He doesn't budge. The same instinct shows up in how he's paid. Code42 set three or four company goals every six months and paid every bonus, including his, on whether the company hit them. The board has offered him separate plans. He turns them down. And it shows up in the drink tickets. Every serious HR incident Payne can remember involved alcohol, and his father was an alcoholic, so at his last two companies everyone at a company event gets two tickets. Happy hour is called social hour. There is a mocktail, which he had to insist on twice before HR made it happen. When someone hands the CEO two extra tickets, he gives them back. People who drink a lot don't love the policy. Other people, he said, come out of the woodwork to thank him. When he arrived at Code42, the developers had a keg. He removed it. "I was very unpopular with a number of people at the beginning of my tenure." ## Tuesdays Payne's test for a company's health is to ask when the last executive team meeting was. If the answer is "every Monday" followed by "well, three weeks ago, we skipped a couple," he knows what he's walking into. His own executive meeting is weekly, on Tuesday, because everyone hates Monday. An all-hands every six weeks. Quarterly reviews. Twice a year, everyone from every office in one room. During the pandemic, the company went on-camera. If you're on the call, you're on video. If you need to step away, step away and come back. "Don't lurk in the background. Be present." His own days have no shape except the parts he's nailed down. He has had the same chief of staff, Julie, for 17 years, and each morning they sort out what needs handling today, this week, this quarter. He walks the dog. He works out, which for 25 years on the road has meant pushups, planks, and sit-ups on whatever hotel floor he's on, because he decided the hotel gym was too easy an excuse. He has read Good to Great enough times to have assigned it as the textbook for a course he taught at American University, and he liked Switch, by Chip and Dan Heath, enough to put one of the brothers on his advisory board. He says being a CEO is, at its core, sales, and that most business books aren't worth the paper. He allows four. ## Two people Every CEO.com Podcast ends with the same question: who gave you a chance? The first person Payne named was Bruce Payne, no relation, a public policy professor at Duke. Joe was on work-study, two days from leaving for a summer job at P&G, when the professor told him he wasn't going. He was going back to Washington instead to build a leadership internship program from scratch. The instruction was to find the best-run nonprofits in the city, on the theory that anyone succeeding without money must be a great leader, and convince them to take a Duke intern. He was 20 and got no other direction. He knocked on doors. The nonprofits asked if he had money. He didn't. The program still runs. The second was Brad Willison, a venture capitalist. Payne had been hired as president of a company by a CEO who decided within a month that he didn't want a president and fired him. "Everyone, including my wife, assumed I must have done something really bad." Nobody would hire him. Willison kept taking him to lunch, and eventually offered him a job running Eloqua. Over the next six years, Eloqua returned 14 times its investors' money. "Sometimes you need to take a chance on somebody," Payne said, "even if it looks like they've got a little dirt stain on them." ```chapters 00:00:00 Introduction and Joe Payne's Role at Code42 00:00:46 Levandowski Case and Insider Threats 00:03:01 Code42's Mission to Secure Collaboration 00:04:31 Joe Payne's Journey to Becoming CEO 00:06:01 Challenges of Transforming Code42 00:09:31 A Typical Day for Joe Payne 00:14:31 AI Integration Into Code42's Software 00:18:31 Book Recommendations and Reading Habits 00:21:01 Three Traits of Successful Leadership 00:25:01 Alcohol Management and Company Culture 00:29:31 Essential Tools and Product Discussion 00:36:45 Giving Chances: Bruce Payne and Brad Woolison ``` ```vtt WEBVTT 00:00:09.780 --> 00:00:11.504 Joe,<00:00:10.040> thank<00:00:10.219> you<00:00:10.300> so<00:00:10.447> much<00:00:10.610> for<00:00:10.756> coming<00:00:11.000> on<00:00:11.081> the<00:00:11.163> show. 00:00:11.976 --> 00:00:24.633 You<00:00:12.139> are<00:00:12.253> 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the<00:06:19.256> venture<00:06:19.577> capitalists,<00:06:20.347> uh,<00:06:20.748> when<00:06:20.845> the<00:06:20.941> founding<00:06:21.342> CEO<00:06:22.386> had<00:06:22.594> left<00:06:22.851> about<00:06:23.027> a<00:06:23.156> year<00:06:23.332> earlier<00:06:23.653> and<00:06:23.734> they<00:06:23.878> were<00:06:23.974> looking<00:06:24.279> for<00:06:24.376> a<00:06:24.392> new<00:06:24.616> CEO. 00:06:25.242 --> 00:06:31.405 And,<00:06:25.884> um,<00:06:26.125> the<00:06:26.157> original<00:06:26.783> founding<00:06:27.168> team<00:06:27.586> was,<00:06:27.971> uh,<00:06:28.228> living<00:06:28.468> in<00:06:28.549> Minneapolis,<00:06:29.271> and<00:06:29.351> it's<00:06:29.929> a<00:06:29.993> good<00:06:30.154> place<00:06:30.330> to<00:06:30.458> build<00:06:30.571> a<00:06:30.635> software<00:06:31.036> company. 00:06:32.144 --> 00:06:35.546 And,<00:06:32.545> um,<00:06:33.187> you<00:06:33.219> know,<00:06:33.428> I<00:06:33.588> really<00:06:33.765> 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really<00:07:08.265> interesting<00:07:08.667> question<00:07:09.149> because<00:07:09.454> I<00:07:09.470> don't<00:07:09.711> think<00:07:10.096> there<00:07:10.257> is<00:07:10.578> a<00:07:10.658> typical<00:07:11.075> day<00:07:11.316> for<00:07:11.461> me. 00:07:12.424 --> 00:07:23.841 I,<00:07:13.323> you<00:07:13.404> know,<00:07:14.447> one<00:07:14.592> of<00:07:14.640> the<00:07:14.993> nice<00:07:15.250> things<00:07:15.716> about<00:07:15.973> being<00:07:16.133> the<00:07:16.230> CEO<00:07:16.856> is<00:07:17.017> that<00:07:17.241> you<00:07:17.338> can<00:07:17.482> have,<00:07:19.329> you<00:07:19.425> know,<00:07:19.602> someone<00:07:20.051> who<00:07:20.244> is<00:07:20.613> sort<00:07:20.774> of<00:07:20.854> a<00:07:20.951> right<00:07:21.175> hand,<00:07:21.432> like<00:07:21.609> a<00:07:21.673> chief<00:07:21.930> of<00:07:21.978> staff,<00:07:22.813> executive<00:07:23.279> assistant. 00:07:24.708 --> 00:07:28.144 And<00:07:24.869> I<00:07:25.350> 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00:35:28.435 --> 00:35:30.855 Do<00:35:28.867> you<00:35:28.948> have<00:35:29.188> any<00:35:29.284> people<00:35:29.605> here<00:35:29.845> you<00:35:29.925> think<00:35:30.166> that<00:35:30.310> go<00:35:30.406> to<00:35:30.551> church? 00:35:31.448 --> 00:35:37.091 Because<00:35:31.689> a<00:35:31.753> lot<00:35:31.833> of<00:35:31.929> church<00:35:32.250> groups<00:35:32.571> use<00:35:32.795> Dropbox,<00:35:33.516> you<00:35:33.548> know,<00:35:33.853> for<00:35:34.719> sharing<00:35:35.135> information<00:35:36.177> and<00:35:36.354> moving<00:35:36.819> things<00:35:36.995> around. 00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:38.823 Do<00:35:37.171> you<00:35:37.203> have<00:35:37.268> any<00:35:37.380> soccer<00:35:37.861> kids<00:35:38.085> that<00:35:38.165> play<00:35:38.342> soccer? 00:35:38.903 --> 00:35:47.421 Because,<00:35:39.207> you<00:35:39.239> know,<00:35:39.865> a<00:35:39.929> lot<00:35:40.169> of<00:35:40.201> those<00:35:40.506> teams,<00:35:41.147> they<00:35:41.387> 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and<00:41:00.380> leadership<00:41:01.103> and<00:41:01.809> values,<00:41:02.532> and<00:41:02.628> we've<00:41:02.805> just<00:41:03.094> barely<00:41:03.366> scratched<00:41:03.816> the<00:41:03.896> surface. 00:41:04.538 --> 00:41:06.112 So<00:41:04.699> I'm<00:41:05.422> thrilled<00:41:05.678> to<00:41:05.759> be<00:41:05.983> here. 00:41:06.305 --> 00:41:09.339 I<00:41:06.385> appreciate<00:41:07.284> the<00:41:07.428> platform<00:41:08.006> and<00:41:08.552> I<00:41:08.633> love<00:41:08.793> what<00:41:08.889> you<00:41:08.970> guys<00:41:09.146> are<00:41:09.211> doing. 00:41:09.973 --> 00:41:10.882 Of<00:41:10.135> course,<00:41:10.379> come<00:41:10.558> back<00:41:10.850> on. 00:41:10.931 --> 00:41:12.506 We'll,<00:41:11.434> we'll<00:41:11.775> make<00:41:11.986> it<00:41:12.067> a<00:41:12.084> series. 00:41:13.042 --> 00:41:13.723 I'd<00:41:13.139> love<00:41:13.366> to<00:41:13.464> do<00:41:13.626> it. ```