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# Degreed CEO David Blake
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/degreed-ceo-david-blake/
- Published: 2024-06-18T12:00:05.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-30T00:36:27.000Z
- Description: Blake founded Degreed, left it to run for national office, and came back to find a teenager with a mind of its own.
- Author: Clint Betts

# The man who wants to jailbreak the degree

David Blake was 17, sitting in a classroom at American Fork High School at 10:30 on a Saturday morning, taking the ACT, when it occurred to him that the adults had gotten together at some point and decided this was how they would sort every 17-year-old in the country into or out of a future. Three hours. A bubble sheet. "You grownups, this is it?" he said on the CEO.com Podcast. "This is what y'all came up with?"

He went to the library and checked out books on the history of education. He was graduating at the top of his class, and these were the first books he had ever read that a teacher had not assigned. Somewhere in them he noticed a feeling he did not recognize and worked out that it was curiosity. He had been an excellent student, he realized, and a terrible learner. Good at memorizing, good at tests. Winning the game was the point. He decided he would rather be a good learner, even if it cost him being a good student.

That is the whole pattern with Blake. Somebody hands him an answer everyone has agreed to stop questioning; he finds it absurd, and he pulls the thread until something comes apart.

The next one came early in his career. He worked for a Silicon Valley-backed company that bought universities, merged them, and took them online, and he had seen both regional and national accreditation, so he knew what the stamp did and did not certify. He started asking people a simple question. Tell me about your education. The answers came back in one of three forms: where they went, what degree they held, or that they never went. He kept a physical binder of newspaper clippings in which anyone, anywhere, had been willing to criticize the college degree. He found six articles.

"If I were to ask you, 'Clint, tell me about your health,' and you're like, 'Oh, yeah, Dave, I ran a marathon 21 years ago,' I'd be like, 'Cool.' And that doesn't answer the question," he said. "Marathons aren't bad, and neither is university. But they betray the fact that we have no language to answer for lifelong education."

Degreed was his attempt to build that language. He started it alone in 2012, then recruited Eric Sharp in Salt Lake City and Kat Kennedy as co-founders. The idea was a Fitbit for learning, a place to log everything a person had learned regardless of who taught it. It launched as a consumer product with no revenue model.

He pitched 100 venture capitalists and got 99 rejections. Most of the meetings turned into arguments, with the investor across the table explaining why a Stanford degree would matter forever. The one yes came from Chris Eyre, whom Blake met walking off a jet bridge. Eyre spotted a Canadian flag on his backpack, a leftover from his church mission in Toronto, and asked about it. Eyre had been the mission president there. He asked what Blake did. Blake said he was an entrepreneur. Eyre said he was a VC.

Before Eyre or anyone else could invest, Blake read them the company's principles. One said Degreed did not exist to be self-perpetuating. Another said it did not exist to maximize revenue. "It sounds very noble, and maybe self-aggrandizing," he said. "But the truth was it was scary and hard. I never had competing term sheets."

The same instinct shaped the product. At Degreed, the employee owns the learning record, not the employer, because a record of lifelong learning that vanishes when you change jobs is not lifelong. Blake says it makes every security review and procurement cycle harder. The company has never changed it.

It took three years to find revenue. The company tried recruiting first and got nowhere. Then it walked into corporate learning and development departments, where managers knew their people were taking courses on Pluralsight and Coursera and had no way to see any of it. The first customer was a used car dealership, for $15,000\. The third was Bank of America, a multiyear global contract worth millions. Degreed now serves roughly 30 percent of the Fortune 100 and was valued at [$1.4 billion](https://degreed.com/experience/newsroom/degreed-raises-153-million-in-series-d-funding/?ref=ceo.com) in its 2021 Series D.

Blake is not against universities. He is against the story people still tell about them. It worked for his grandparents and mostly for his parents, and the advice they hand down is calibrated to a world that no longer exists. In 1976, he said, three months of summer work at minimum wage covered a year of Harvard tuition. Today a full year of minimum-wage work would not. By his count, about 55 percent of students finish a four-year degree within six years, and about half of those end up in a job that requires it. He objects to charter schools having kids chant every morning that they are going to college. "It was cute 20 years ago," he said. "Now I think it's immoral."

He does not think canceling student debt fixes any of this. His proposal is to let student loans be discharged in bankruptcy, so lenders bear the cost of financing a degree that will not pay off. "There's never any downside risk to being the lender, so you really don't care about the outcomes," he said. Once the actuaries have a say, the money stops flowing to negative-return majors, and tuition finally feels pressure.

The thing he sees undermining that pressure is corporate tuition benefits. Walmart, Home Depot, and Chipotle now offer free online degrees to hourly workers. Blake reads it as a retention play dressed up as philanthropy: if an employee who used to stay five months now stays 10, two semesters of tuition is cheaper than the turnover. Graduation rates in those programs, he said, are in the single digits, and the effect is to hand universities a new payer at the moment enrollment declines were starting to force prices down. "Now tuition's going to hover around where it is for probably another two decades," he said.

He thinks the pressure will actually come from skills. Blake cites McKinsey research that found [hiring for skills is five times more predictive of job performance](https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/people-and-organizational-performance/our-insights/taking-a-skills-based-approach-to-building-the-future-workforce?ref=ceo.com) than hiring for education and more than twice as predictive as hiring for experience. Nearly every job posting in the world still screens on experience. The degree held on as long as it did, in his view, because it was the only credential the whole planet could read. AI ends that monopoly, because for the first time a company can inventory what every employee can actually do and price it. "Ten years from now, we'll think how absurd and quaint it was that you might have 40, 400, 4,000 people with the same job title as you getting paid the same thing."

Asked whether job postings become skills postings, he gave a one-word answer. "Absolutely."

Blake stepped down as CEO of Degreed to run for vice president of the United States.

He is the first vice presidential candidate to appear on the CEO.com Podcast. The campaign itself was short. It became a two-year ballot initiative called Vice Run, based on a reading of the 12th Amendment that most people have never encountered. The amendment, passed after Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr tied and the House deadlocked more than 30 times, split the presidency and vice presidency into separate offices. For 60 or 70 years, Americans voted for them separately. Party tickets later fused the two on state ballots. Nominees did not start picking their own running mates until John F. Kennedy. The Electoral College still votes for the two offices separately, because the Constitution has not changed. Only the ballot did.

"Every single check and balance on divided government that was given to us by the Founding Fathers is vested in the vice presidency," Blake said. Roughly three in four voters supported restoring the separate vote once they understood they had lost it, red, blue, or neither. He qualified in seven states before the money ran out. He later told [Utah Business](https://www.utahbusiness.com/entrepreneurship/2022/03/10/how-david-blake-founded-degreed-and-bookclub/?ref=ceo.com) that he never cracked political fundraising, so he went back to what he knew.

What he knew turned out to be two more companies, Learn In and BookClub. In June 2022, [Degreed acquired Learn In](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220623005917/en?ref=ceo.com) and brought its founder back as CEO. Industry analyst Josh Bersin called it a [return to the company's roots](https://joshbersin.com/2022/06/corporate-learning-bombshell-degreed-acquires-learnin-david-blake-returns/?ref=ceo.com). Sharp, the original co-founder, [came back as chief technology officer](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260408839371/en/Degreed-Named-a-Strategic-Leader-in-the-2026-Fosway-9-Grid-for-Learning-Systems-Amid-Recent-AI-Innovation-Announcements?ref=ceo.com) this January to accelerate what the company calls its AI-first vision.

Blake is frank that returning is not the same as founding. Building a company from zero is like having a child, he said. Coming back is like marrying into teenage stepchildren. "It's a teenager, and it has a mind of its own." He runs it from Utah now, after 10 years in San Francisco, three days in the office and two at home. He remembers investors in the early rounds wincing when they heard the engineering team was in Salt Lake City. By the Series B, they were calling it a brilliant move.

The book he recommends is Blitzed, a history of drug use in the German army during the Second World War, which he says explains blitzkrieg better than any strategy text. Another accepted story with a thread hanging off it.

Every CEO.com Podcast episode ends with the same question. Who gave you a chance?

"He believed in me and gave me a chance when no one else would," Blake said of Chris Eyre. "Without him, absolutely there would be no Degreed today."

```chapters
00:00:00 Introducing David Blake and Degreed
00:02:04 The Mission Behind Degreed
00:05:14 Early Inspiration for Rethinking Education
00:08:53 Building Degreed's Business Model
00:12:50 Lessons in Scaling With a Mission
00:16:17 What's Wrong With the University System
00:19:19 Student Debt and Broken Incentives
00:23:32 The Danger of Employer-Paid Degrees
00:25:57 How AI Is Reshaping Education
00:29:41 Toward Skills-Based Hiring
00:31:41 Leaving Degreed to Run for Vice President
00:36:47 The Lost History of VP Elections
00:42:19 Writing The Expertise Economy
00:43:38 Choosing a Hybrid Work Model
00:47:31 The Chance That Made Degreed Possible
```

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And,<00:02:56.150> you<00:02:56.246> know,<00:02:56.551> that<00:02:56.711> doesn't<00:02:56.984> answer<00:02:57.144> the<00:02:57.272> question.

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But<00:02:58.635> when<00:02:58.747> you<00:02:58.875> ask<00:02:59.051> people,<00:02:59.292> tell<00:02:59.404> me<00:02:59.516> about<00:03:00.013> your<00:03:00.157> education,<00:03:00.719> they<00:03:00.879> with<00:03:01.199> a<00:03:01.215> straight<00:03:01.680> face<00:03:02.017> will<00:03:02.113> say<00:03:02.338> like,<00:03:02.642> oh<00:03:02.722> yeah,<00:03:03.059> I<00:03:03.123> went<00:03:03.219> to<00:03:03.315> SMU.

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It's<00:03:04.502> like,<00:03:04.886> okay,<00:03:05.864> you<00:03:05.944> know,<00:03:06.810> and,<00:03:07.547> you<00:03:07.628> know,<00:03:08.092> and<00:03:08.173> marathons<00:03:08.669> aren't<00:03:08.814> bad<00:03:09.134> and<00:03:09.551> neither<00:03:09.936> is<00:03:10.273> university,<00:03:10.850> though<00:03:10.994> I<00:03:11.074> have<00:03:11.170> my<00:03:11.395> critiques,<00:03:12.036> but<00:03:12.196> it<00:03:12.276> betrays<00:03:12.837> the<00:03:12.982> fact<00:03:13.943> that<00:03:14.056> we<00:03:14.264> have<00:03:14.857> no<00:03:15.162> language<00:03:15.948> to<00:03:16.349> answer<00:03:16.686> for<00:03:17.232> lifelong<00:03:17.633> education.

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And<00:03:18.435> so<00:03:18.580> that<00:03:18.676> was<00:03:18.772> the<00:03:18.853> mission<00:03:19.334> and<00:03:19.479> the<00:03:19.559> obsession<00:03:19.896> behind<00:03:20.137> Degreed<00:03:20.441> was<00:03:20.538> how<00:03:20.634> do<00:03:20.714> we<00:03:20.843> help<00:03:21.019> people<00:03:21.886> transact<00:03:22.447> on<00:03:22.768> all<00:03:23.185> of<00:03:23.282> their<00:03:23.426> lifelong<00:03:23.892> education<00:03:24.453> irrespective<00:03:25.272> of<00:03:25.416> how<00:03:25.753> or<00:03:25.897> where<00:03:26.074> they<00:03:26.234> got<00:03:26.459> it?

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So<00:03:26.876> all<00:03:27.021> of,<00:03:27.181> yes,<00:03:27.358> your<00:03:27.502> academics,<00:03:28.561> but<00:03:28.786> also<00:03:29.027> all<00:03:29.123> of<00:03:29.219> your<00:03:29.364> professional<00:03:29.845> training<00:03:30.166> as<00:03:30.327> well<00:03:30.471> as<00:03:30.567> all<00:03:30.648> the<00:03:30.792> informal<00:03:31.225> stuff.

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And<00:03:31.594> that's<00:03:31.835> really<00:03:32.012> where<00:03:32.092> a<00:03:32.108> majority<00:03:32.653> of<00:03:32.750> your<00:03:32.894> learning<00:03:33.215> is<00:03:33.311> going<00:03:33.408> to<00:03:33.536> be.

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You're<00:03:33.809> going<00:03:33.921> to<00:03:34.001> learn<00:03:34.178> more<00:03:34.483> from<00:03:34.659> books<00:03:35.686> on<00:03:35.927> average<00:03:36.344> than<00:03:36.505> you<00:03:36.729> will<00:03:36.970> from<00:03:37.227> professors<00:03:37.965> or<00:03:38.110> teachers<00:03:39.297> in<00:03:39.393> your<00:03:39.634> lifetime.

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And<00:03:41.062> yet,<00:03:41.640> you<00:03:41.720> know,<00:03:42.347> there<00:03:42.847> was<00:03:43.088> never<00:03:43.395> any<00:03:43.556> way<00:03:43.798> of<00:03:43.959> reflecting<00:03:44.539> that<00:03:45.491> and<00:03:45.668> sort<00:03:45.894> of<00:03:45.990> being<00:03:46.216> able<00:03:46.345> to<00:03:46.474> transact<00:03:47.183> on<00:03:47.264> it<00:03:47.425> in<00:03:47.506> your<00:03:47.764> professional<00:03:48.328> life.

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Yeah,<00:03:50.722> and<00:03:50.818> so<00:03:51.284> the<00:03:51.445> idea—<00:03:51.927> like,<00:03:52.168> you're<00:03:52.409> way<00:03:52.650> ahead<00:03:52.891> of<00:03:52.972> your<00:03:53.132> time<00:03:53.454> here<00:03:53.679> when<00:03:53.775> you're<00:03:53.936> thinking<00:03:54.241> about<00:03:54.482> this<00:03:54.819> though,<00:03:55.542> because,<00:03:56.008> um,<00:03:56.892> you<00:03:56.989> know,<00:03:57.310> we<00:03:57.487> now<00:03:58.033> look<00:03:58.258> at<00:03:58.338> universities<00:03:59.302> and<00:03:59.399> we<00:03:59.624> all<00:03:59.801> have<00:04:00.010> critiques,<00:04:00.588> right?

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And<00:04:01.006> we<00:04:01.231> all<00:04:01.392> have—<00:04:02.131> but<00:04:02.276> it<00:04:02.372> wasn't<00:04:02.758> too<00:04:02.999> long<00:04:03.256> ago<00:04:03.642> where<00:04:03.963> universities<00:04:04.687> were,<00:04:05.490> um,<00:04:05.924> still<00:04:06.310> prestigious.

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I<00:04:06.889> mean,<00:04:07.065> maybe<00:04:07.290> they<00:04:07.371> still<00:04:07.676> are,<00:04:07.837> but<00:04:07.998> in<00:04:08.158> my<00:04:08.335> sense<00:04:08.641> of<00:04:08.721> it<00:04:08.930> they're<00:04:09.363> not,<00:04:09.765> or<00:04:09.861> at<00:04:10.006> least<00:04:10.231> like<00:04:10.392> in<00:04:10.472> our<00:04:10.713> world.

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Right.

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And<00:04:11.950> so<00:04:12.111> you're<00:04:12.320> way<00:04:12.497> ahead<00:04:12.722> of<00:04:12.802> your<00:04:12.963> time<00:04:13.284> here<00:04:13.846> in<00:04:14.087> thinking<00:04:14.409> about<00:04:14.730> this.

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What<00:04:15.710> drives<00:04:16.272> you<00:04:16.417> to<00:04:16.514> start<00:04:16.771> a<00:04:16.835> company<00:04:17.317> around<00:04:17.654> it?

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Yeah,<00:04:20.689> you<00:04:20.721> know,<00:04:20.834> I'm,<00:04:21.399> I'm<00:04:21.495> an<00:04:21.641> elder<00:04:21.834> millennial,<00:04:22.931> and<00:04:23.028> so<00:04:23.254> this<00:04:23.577> betrays<00:04:23.996> a<00:04:24.061> little<00:04:24.303> bit<00:04:24.464> of,<00:04:24.868> of<00:04:24.981> my<00:04:25.206> age.

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But<00:04:26.078> early<00:04:26.739> in<00:04:26.772> my<00:04:26.965> career,<00:04:27.772> I<00:04:27.950> kept<00:04:28.208> a<00:04:28.353> binder,<00:04:29.256> a<00:04:29.370> physical<00:04:29.724> binder<00:04:30.273> with<00:04:30.466> newspaper<00:04:31.256> and<00:04:31.401> article<00:04:31.966> clippings<00:04:33.417> of<00:04:34.062> any<00:04:34.239> time<00:04:34.707> I<00:04:34.739> saw<00:04:35.191> anyone<00:04:35.916> willing<00:04:36.255> to<00:04:36.416> critique<00:04:37.496> higher<00:04:37.752> education<00:04:38.858> or<00:04:39.258> the<00:04:39.338> degree.

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And<00:04:41.181> I<00:04:41.277> found<00:04:41.518> like<00:04:41.918> 6<00:04:42.239> articles.

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It<00:04:43.521> wasn't<00:04:43.825> that<00:04:44.001> many.

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And<00:04:44.578> now<00:04:44.867> you<00:04:44.963> could<00:04:45.123> fill<00:04:45.364> a<00:04:45.524> book<00:04:45.844> full<00:04:46.101> of<00:04:46.309> it.

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So<00:04:46.790> yes,<00:04:47.911> once<00:04:48.104> upon<00:04:48.328> a<00:04:48.408> time,<00:04:49.530> sort<00:04:49.706> of<00:04:50.171> the<00:04:50.267> degree<00:04:50.796> was<00:04:51.357> the<00:04:52.254> pathway,<00:04:52.815> the<00:04:52.975> one<00:04:53.199> and<00:04:53.440> only<00:04:54.017> blessed<00:04:54.722> and<00:04:55.475> sanctified<00:04:56.244> pathway<00:04:56.901> into<00:04:57.942> the<00:04:58.023> middle-class<00:04:58.728> life<00:04:59.048> in<00:04:59.160> America.

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It's<00:05:00.410> what<00:05:00.570> every<00:05:01.388> parent<00:05:01.772> wanted<00:05:02.109> for<00:05:02.974> every<00:05:03.920> you<00:05:04.033> know,<00:05:04.194> child<00:05:05.553> and,<00:05:06.281> you<00:05:06.313> know,<00:05:06.443> anymore<00:05:06.782> it<00:05:07.090> really<00:05:07.332> is<00:05:07.365> shifting.

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We<00:05:08.076> can<00:05:08.642> talk<00:05:08.869> about<00:05:09.694> kind<00:05:09.855> of<00:05:09.920> how<00:05:10.098> much<00:05:10.405> I<00:05:10.421> think<00:05:10.745> and<00:05:10.826> what<00:05:10.971> it's<00:05:11.068> going<00:05:11.246> to<00:05:11.360> mean.

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But<00:05:14.206> yeah,<00:05:14.530> you<00:05:14.562> know,<00:05:14.788> what<00:05:15.015> led<00:05:15.193> me<00:05:15.419> to<00:05:15.581> do<00:05:15.824> it,<00:05:19.479> you<00:05:19.560> know,<00:05:19.657> the<00:05:19.786> short<00:05:20.190> version<00:05:20.837> to<00:05:21.320> what<00:05:21.432> is<00:05:21.577> ultimately<00:05:22.447> a<00:05:22.463> lot<00:05:22.640> of<00:05:22.769> inputs<00:05:24.862> takes<00:05:25.055> me<00:05:25.184> back<00:05:25.361> to<00:05:25.425> when<00:05:25.586> I<00:05:25.602> was<00:05:25.763> in<00:05:25.844> high<00:05:26.005> school<00:05:26.246> and<00:05:26.311> when<00:05:26.391> I<00:05:26.488> sat<00:05:26.730> for<00:05:26.810> the<00:05:26.955> ACT,<00:05:27.374> I<00:05:27.454> just<00:05:28.098> found<00:05:28.275> the<00:05:28.404> experience<00:05:29.306> just<00:05:29.628> blew<00:05:29.805> my<00:05:29.950> mind.

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I<00:05:30.240> was<00:05:30.338> like,<00:05:31.253> at<00:05:31.318> some<00:05:31.580> point,<00:05:32.536> all<00:05:32.616> the<00:05:32.713> grownups<00:05:33.098> got<00:05:33.259> together<00:05:33.837> and<00:05:33.917> decided<00:05:34.383> that<00:05:34.559> this<00:05:34.784> like<00:05:34.961> 3-hour<00:05:35.362> test<00:05:35.747> was<00:05:35.908> going<00:05:36.085> to<00:05:36.245> be<00:05:36.390> how<00:05:36.486> they<00:05:36.582> sorted<00:05:37.048> all<00:05:37.128> the<00:05:37.209> 17-year-olds<00:05:38.092> in<00:05:38.172> and<00:05:38.317> out<00:05:38.349> of<00:05:38.429> their<00:05:38.573> future.

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And<00:05:38.943> I<00:05:38.959> was<00:05:39.071> like,<00:05:39.216> no<00:05:39.440> way,<00:05:39.617> not<00:05:39.778> for<00:05:39.970> real.

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Like,<00:05:40.259> this<00:05:40.436> is<00:05:40.580> it.

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Like,<00:05:41.464> this<00:05:41.640> is—<00:05:42.186> you<00:05:42.347> grownups,<00:05:42.893> like,<00:05:42.989> this<00:05:43.166> is<00:05:43.374> it.

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This<00:05:43.695> is<00:05:43.792> what<00:05:43.936> y'all<00:05:44.595> came<00:05:44.835> up<00:05:44.996> with.

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And<00:05:46.521> I<00:05:46.602> was<00:05:46.746> just<00:05:46.843> so<00:05:47.388> floored<00:05:47.806> by<00:05:47.967> the<00:05:48.047> fact<00:05:48.288> that,<00:05:48.834> you<00:05:48.882> know,<00:05:48.994> for<00:05:49.090> me<00:05:49.251> it<00:05:49.781> was<00:05:50.279> American<00:05:50.680> Fork<00:05:51.579> High<00:05:51.756> School,<00:05:52.366> you<00:05:52.462> know,<00:05:52.784> at<00:05:52.944> 10:30<00:05:53.570> a.m.<00:05:53.924> on<00:05:54.052> a<00:05:54.068> Saturday<00:05:54.630> when<00:05:54.775> I<00:05:54.855> was<00:05:54.951> 17.

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And<00:05:56.252> I<00:05:56.284> was<00:05:56.380> just<00:05:56.541> like,<00:05:56.637> this<00:05:56.782> can't<00:05:57.103> really<00:05:57.360> be<00:05:57.520> it.

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And<00:05:58.643> that<00:05:58.739> was<00:05:58.884> kind<00:05:58.980> of<00:05:59.044> the<00:05:59.140> spark<00:06:00.231> that,<00:06:01.033> you<00:06:01.113> know,<00:06:01.209> got<00:06:01.353> me<00:06:01.450> interested<00:06:01.850> in<00:06:01.931> education.

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I<00:06:02.572> started,<00:06:03.358> again,<00:06:03.775> elder<00:06:04.015> millennial,<00:06:04.320> I<00:06:04.416> went<00:06:04.561> to<00:06:04.641> the<00:06:04.673> library<00:06:05.058> and<00:06:05.138> started<00:06:05.378> reading<00:06:05.619> books<00:06:05.859> on<00:06:06.004> the<00:06:06.100> history<00:06:06.437> of<00:06:06.517> education.

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Um,<00:06:08.730> and<00:06:08.970> I<00:06:09.532> had<00:06:09.692> this<00:06:09.852> dawning<00:06:10.109> realization<00:06:10.750> that<00:06:10.911> I<00:06:10.975> was<00:06:11.071> graduating<00:06:11.472> top<00:06:11.648> of<00:06:11.713> my<00:06:11.873> class.

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Um,<00:06:13.172> so<00:06:13.380> an<00:06:13.541> excellent<00:06:13.942> student,<00:06:15.241> but<00:06:16.042> those<00:06:16.283> books<00:06:16.507> were<00:06:16.604> the<00:06:16.668> first<00:06:16.908> thing<00:06:17.069> I'd<00:06:17.229> ever<00:06:17.470> read<00:06:17.726> that<00:06:17.903> a<00:06:17.967> teacher<00:06:18.207> hadn't<00:06:18.448> assigned<00:06:18.833> to<00:06:18.929> me.

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And<00:06:19.410> so<00:06:19.490> I<00:06:19.506> had<00:06:19.650> this<00:06:19.795> like<00:06:19.955> dawning<00:06:20.212> realization.

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I<00:06:20.869> was<00:06:20.997> like,<00:06:21.238> oh,<00:06:21.318> what's<00:06:21.479> that<00:06:21.575> feeling?

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It's<00:06:22.072> like,<00:06:22.280> oh,<00:06:23.002> that<00:06:23.050> must<00:06:23.259> be<00:06:23.403> curiosity.

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That,<00:06:24.301> that<00:06:24.445> must<00:06:24.622> be<00:06:24.702> what<00:06:24.846> that<00:06:25.007> feels<00:06:25.183> like.

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And<00:06:26.289> I<00:06:26.370> realized<00:06:26.690> that<00:06:26.851> here<00:06:26.947> I<00:06:27.011> was<00:06:27.428> an<00:06:27.588> excellent<00:06:27.909> student<00:06:28.534> and<00:06:29.096> honestly<00:06:29.914> a<00:06:29.994> terrible<00:06:30.555> learner.

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You<00:06:32.336> know,<00:06:32.384> I<00:06:32.464> was<00:06:32.625> good<00:06:32.721> at<00:06:32.801> memorizing<00:06:33.363> and<00:06:33.443> test-taking,<00:06:34.726> but<00:06:35.047> the<00:06:35.207> education<00:06:35.769> was<00:06:35.929> never<00:06:36.090> the<00:06:36.234> point.

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Winning<00:06:37.197> the<00:06:37.357> game<00:06:37.694> was<00:06:37.918> the<00:06:38.015> point.

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And<00:06:39.057> I<00:06:39.603> was<00:06:39.715> starting<00:06:40.180> to<00:06:40.325> fall<00:06:40.581> in<00:06:40.726> love<00:06:41.143> with<00:06:41.768> actual<00:06:42.490> learning.

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And<00:06:43.549> so<00:06:43.613> I<00:06:43.709> aspired<00:06:44.030> to<00:06:44.110> be<00:06:44.190> a<00:06:44.255> great<00:06:44.495> learner,<00:06:45.458> even<00:06:45.634> if<00:06:45.779> it<00:06:45.859> meant<00:06:46.099> I<00:06:46.180> had<00:06:46.276> to<00:06:46.340> give<00:06:46.500> up<00:06:46.597> being<00:06:46.757> a<00:06:46.821> good<00:06:46.934> student.

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And<00:06:48.506> that's<00:06:48.746> been<00:06:49.324> the<00:06:49.420> sort<00:06:49.580> of<00:06:49.644> passion<00:06:49.965> and<00:06:50.110> obsession<00:06:50.543> of<00:06:50.591> my<00:06:50.751> adult<00:06:51.008> life.

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And<00:06:52.115> as<00:06:52.355> I<00:06:52.452> continue<00:06:52.933> to<00:06:53.029> develop<00:06:53.414> myself<00:06:53.879> as<00:06:54.040> a<00:06:54.056> learner,<00:06:54.762> at<00:06:54.858> some<00:06:55.018> point<00:06:55.259> it's<00:06:55.403> like,<00:06:56.542> you<00:06:56.623> know,<00:06:57.265> we<00:06:57.425> need<00:06:57.650> to<00:06:57.907> empower<00:06:58.468> people<00:06:58.950> to<00:06:59.174> be<00:06:59.271> able<00:06:59.576> to<00:06:59.736> unlock<00:07:00.298> the<00:07:00.458> doors<00:07:01.020> and<00:07:01.100> unlock<00:07:01.598> the<00:07:01.758> gates<00:07:02.946> with<00:07:03.764> their<00:07:04.085> lifelong<00:07:04.647> learning<00:07:05.113> and<00:07:05.273> with<00:07:05.450> their<00:07:05.626> skills,<00:07:07.135> you<00:07:07.231> know,<00:07:07.392> because<00:07:07.680> we<00:07:07.761> had<00:07:07.841> set<00:07:08.034> up<00:07:08.162> this<00:07:08.338> kind<00:07:08.563> of<00:07:08.740> tollgate,<00:07:09.301> which<00:07:09.462> was,<00:07:10.088> you<00:07:10.184> know,<00:07:10.489> universities<00:07:11.067> had<00:07:11.243> a<00:07:11.308> monopoly<00:07:12.415> on<00:07:12.672> the<00:07:12.768> degree,<00:07:13.298> on<00:07:13.410> the<00:07:13.538> sheepskin,<00:07:15.143> and<00:07:15.641> that<00:07:15.962> was<00:07:16.187> the<00:07:16.283> doorway<00:07:17.310> to<00:07:18.369> better<00:07:18.674> life.

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And<00:07:19.782> it's<00:07:19.878> like,<00:07:19.974> we<00:07:20.054> need<00:07:20.215> to<00:07:20.359> democratize<00:07:21.162> that.

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And<00:07:21.643> so<00:07:21.724> I<00:07:21.740> became<00:07:22.077> really<00:07:22.398> obsessed<00:07:23.023> with<00:07:23.425> the<00:07:23.505> credential,<00:07:24.388> the<00:07:24.468> signal,<00:07:25.672> and<00:07:25.768> this<00:07:25.976> was<00:07:26.153> in<00:07:26.249> a<00:07:26.297> moment<00:07:26.634> where<00:07:27.099> everyone<00:07:27.419> else<00:07:27.580> in<00:07:27.660> edtech,<00:07:28.397> and<00:07:28.494> even<00:07:28.718> that<00:07:28.943> was<00:07:29.360> just<00:07:30.466> sort<00:07:30.706> of<00:07:31.284> coming<00:07:31.588> into<00:07:31.829> its<00:07:32.069> own<00:07:32.550> as<00:07:32.711> a<00:07:32.807> category,<00:07:34.074> but<00:07:34.170> everyone<00:07:34.475> else<00:07:34.651> was<00:07:34.795> really<00:07:34.972> focused<00:07:35.356> on<00:07:35.517> content<00:07:36.318> democratizing<00:07:37.136> the<00:07:37.361> actual<00:07:37.778> learning.

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So<00:07:38.884> Pluralsight,<00:07:39.766> you<00:07:39.862> know,<00:07:40.103> Udemy,<00:07:40.824> Coursera,<00:07:42.203> MasterClass,<00:07:43.550> Khan<00:07:43.855> Academy.

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We<00:07:45.057> had<00:07:45.298> all<00:07:45.538> these<00:07:45.779> like<00:07:45.955> content<00:07:46.741> proliferation,<00:07:48.040> you<00:07:48.136> know,<00:07:48.280> going<00:07:48.505> on,<00:07:48.601> which<00:07:48.761> was<00:07:48.906> really<00:07:49.082> important.

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But<00:07:50.092> yeah,<00:07:50.268> I<00:07:50.365> was<00:07:50.509> over<00:07:50.750> on,<00:07:51.231> on<00:07:51.327> my<00:07:51.487> own<00:07:51.647> little<00:07:51.872> island<00:07:52.610> talking<00:07:52.946> about,<00:07:53.877> jailbreaking<00:07:54.374> the<00:07:54.471> degree.

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And<00:07:56.317> for<00:07:56.526> the<00:07:56.558> most<00:07:56.863> part,<00:07:57.024> when<00:07:57.168> I'd<00:07:57.329> go<00:07:57.489> pitch<00:07:57.746> VCs,<00:07:59.593> I'd<00:07:59.705> still—<00:08:00.299> it<00:08:00.380> mostly<00:08:00.701> ended<00:08:00.861> up<00:08:00.974> in<00:08:01.102> arguments,<00:08:01.680> you<00:08:01.760> know,<00:08:02.001> VCs<00:08:02.403> saying<00:08:02.724> why,<00:08:03.607> you<00:08:03.687> know,<00:08:03.832> their<00:08:03.944> Stanford<00:08:04.474> degree<00:08:04.811> was,<00:08:05.213> was<00:08:05.454> for—.

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I<00:08:05.759> went<00:08:05.951> to<00:08:06.032> Wharton.

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What<00:08:06.802> are<00:08:06.866> you<00:08:06.899> talking<00:08:07.220> about?

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It<00:08:07.541> doesn't<00:08:08.649> matter.

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Yeah,<00:08:09.211> exactly.

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So,<00:08:10.511> you<00:08:10.576> know,<00:08:10.688> it<00:08:10.816> took<00:08:11.009> a<00:08:11.057> minute<00:08:11.475> for<00:08:12.422> kind<00:08:12.583> of<00:08:12.663> others<00:08:13.000> to,<00:08:13.723> to<00:08:14.525> maybe<00:08:14.702> see<00:08:15.007> it.

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But<00:08:15.794> I<00:08:16.131> think<00:08:16.292> at<00:08:16.324> this<00:08:16.517> point,<00:08:16.677> like<00:08:16.838> you<00:08:16.918> said,<00:08:17.159> it's<00:08:17.833> a<00:08:18.058> little<00:08:18.219> bit<00:08:19.118> more<00:08:19.344> commonly<00:08:19.830> critiqued<00:08:21.269> than<00:08:21.593> it<00:08:21.690> once<00:08:22.159> was.

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And<00:08:24.278> so<00:08:24.585> what<00:08:24.763> does<00:08:24.924> Degreed<00:08:25.329> do?

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What<00:08:25.879> was<00:08:26.057> the<00:08:26.202> idea<00:08:26.638> for—<00:08:28.569> So<00:08:28.795> I<00:08:28.875> hear<00:08:29.117> all<00:08:29.278> that<00:08:29.744> and<00:08:31.788> that's—.

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Yeah.

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I<00:08:33.381> agree<00:08:33.687> with<00:08:33.848> everything<00:08:34.250> you<00:08:34.283> just<00:08:34.444> said.

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And<00:08:35.602> then,<00:08:35.763> but<00:08:35.907> how<00:08:36.004> do<00:08:36.084> you<00:08:36.229> turn<00:08:36.646> that<00:08:37.273> idea<00:08:38.093> and<00:08:38.237> this<00:08:38.414> passion<00:08:38.960> for<00:08:39.137> learning<00:08:39.844> and<00:08:40.021> this,<00:08:40.487> how<00:08:40.583> do<00:08:40.728> we<00:08:40.889> turn<00:08:42.753> the<00:08:42.897> university<00:08:43.476> system<00:08:44.665> on<00:08:44.810> its<00:08:44.989> head<00:08:45.804> and<00:08:46.228> focus<00:08:46.636> more<00:08:46.946> on<00:08:47.207> what<00:08:47.435> we're<00:08:47.598> learning<00:08:48.087> rather<00:08:48.348> than<00:08:48.511> credentials?

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How<00:08:49.641> do<00:08:49.691> you<00:08:49.792> do<00:08:49.943> that<00:08:50.362> and<00:08:50.529> turn<00:08:50.730> that<00:08:50.881> into<00:08:51.066> a<00:08:51.200> company?

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Sure.

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You<00:08:55.785> know,<00:08:57.082> we're<00:08:57.309> kind<00:08:57.487> of<00:08:57.569> a<00:08:57.974> many<00:08:58.217> years<00:08:58.477> to<00:08:58.606> becoming<00:08:58.947> an<00:08:59.028> overnight<00:08:59.417> success<00:09:00.228> type<00:09:00.423> story.

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But,<00:09:02.921> you<00:09:03.018> know,<00:09:03.082> the<00:09:03.163> genesis—<00:09:03.517> Degreed<00:09:03.823> was<00:09:03.984> born<00:09:04.209> in<00:09:04.306> 2012.

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So<00:09:05.175> I<00:09:05.207> started<00:09:05.674> it<00:09:06.398> initially<00:09:06.785> on<00:09:06.817> my<00:09:07.026> own,<00:09:07.348> would<00:09:07.509> recruit<00:09:07.864> a<00:09:07.928> co-founder<00:09:08.797> in<00:09:08.974> Eric<00:09:09.200> Sharp<00:09:10.182> here<00:09:10.407> in<00:09:10.520> Salt<00:09:10.810> Lake<00:09:11.228> and<00:09:11.373> then<00:09:11.760> Kat<00:09:11.939> Kennedy<00:09:13.897> as<00:09:14.158> our<00:09:14.827> third<00:09:19.793> You<00:09:19.825> know,<00:09:20.354> the—<00:09:21.171> so<00:09:21.492> to<00:09:21.636> go<00:09:21.732> back<00:09:21.893> to<00:09:22.037> 2012,<00:09:22.999> that<00:09:23.063> was<00:09:23.239> like<00:09:23.399> kind<00:09:23.560> of<00:09:23.592> the<00:09:23.736> peak<00:09:24.041> of<00:09:24.121> like<00:09:24.217> quantified<00:09:24.698> self,<00:09:25.339> you<00:09:25.435> know,<00:09:25.836> so<00:09:26.141> when<00:09:27.166> Fitbit<00:09:27.744> was<00:09:27.968> at<00:09:28.208> its<00:09:28.850> pinnacle.

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And<00:09:30.308> so<00:09:30.485> we<00:09:30.629> had<00:09:30.853> that<00:09:31.030> kind<00:09:31.158> of<00:09:31.270> as<00:09:31.414> an<00:09:31.735> analog<00:09:32.168> of<00:09:32.248> like,<00:09:32.408> okay,<00:09:32.585> let's<00:09:32.713> just<00:09:32.937> track<00:09:33.418> all<00:09:33.514> of<00:09:33.659> everyone's<00:09:34.059> learning<00:09:34.396> and<00:09:34.540> we'll,<00:09:34.877> you<00:09:34.973> know,<00:09:35.053> we'll<00:09:35.198> kind<00:09:35.390> of<00:09:35.422> be<00:09:35.502> the<00:09:35.598> quantified<00:09:36.095> self<00:09:36.384> for<00:09:36.945> your<00:09:37.121> learning,<00:09:37.426> for<00:09:37.522> your<00:09:37.666> education,<00:09:38.644> you<00:09:38.885> know.

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And<00:09:39.045> then<00:09:39.189> one<00:09:39.285> of<00:09:39.317> my<00:09:39.462> early<00:09:39.766> investors<00:09:40.327> was<00:09:40.488> actually<00:09:41.049> the<00:09:41.129> founder<00:09:41.529> of<00:09:41.610> FICO,<00:09:42.075> as<00:09:42.251> in<00:09:42.475> like<00:09:42.636> your<00:09:42.732> FICO<00:09:43.116> credit<00:09:43.437> score.

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And<00:09:44.479> so,<00:09:44.960> you<00:09:44.992> know,<00:09:45.152> then<00:09:45.297> I<00:09:45.377> had<00:09:45.537> kind<00:09:45.665> of<00:09:45.761> this<00:09:46.002> analog<00:09:46.435> of<00:09:46.579> like,<00:09:46.900> well,<00:09:47.124> what<00:09:47.236> if<00:09:47.381> there<00:09:47.541> is<00:09:47.685> a<00:09:47.701> way<00:09:47.942> of<00:09:48.199> sort<00:09:48.440> of<00:09:48.504> scoring,<00:09:49.949> you<00:09:50.030> know,<00:09:50.190> people's<00:09:50.817> educations<00:09:51.491> or<00:09:51.636> quantifying<00:09:52.343> people's<00:09:52.712> skills.

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And<00:09:53.805> so,<00:09:53.885> I<00:09:53.901> mean,<00:09:54.029> there<00:09:54.110> was<00:09:54.222> different<00:09:54.527> analogs,<00:09:56.455> but<00:09:56.615> we<00:09:56.696> started<00:09:57.097> with<00:09:57.322> consumers,<00:09:58.206> launched<00:09:58.623> direct-to-consumer<00:09:59.571> because<00:10:00.133> I<00:10:00.374> believed<00:10:00.872> it<00:10:01.033> needed<00:10:01.338> to<00:10:01.434> be<00:10:01.659> lifelong.

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And<00:10:02.318> for<00:10:02.462> it<00:10:02.543> to<00:10:02.623> be<00:10:02.784> lifelong,<00:10:03.282> you<00:10:03.844> needed<00:10:04.085> to<00:10:04.310> own<00:10:04.550> your<00:10:04.727> profile,<00:10:05.289> your<00:10:05.450> data.

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And<00:10:07.297> so<00:10:07.538> people<00:10:07.843> did<00:10:08.004> start<00:10:08.245> tracking<00:10:08.646> their<00:10:08.743> learning<00:10:09.048> on<00:10:09.128> the<00:10:09.385> platform,<00:10:09.867> but<00:10:10.012> we<00:10:10.092> weren't<00:10:10.333> monetizing.

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And<00:10:11.409> so,<00:10:12.437> you<00:10:12.518> know,<00:10:12.999> we're<00:10:13.224> a<00:10:13.722> nonprofits<00:10:14.690> at<00:10:14.932> that<00:10:15.319> moment<00:10:15.593> in<00:10:15.738> time,<00:10:16.142> just,<00:10:16.384> you<00:10:16.481> know,<00:10:16.561> no<00:10:16.787> revenue<00:10:17.190> model<00:10:18.384> and<00:10:19.288> figured<00:10:19.675> I'd<00:10:19.852> need<00:10:20.159> to<00:10:20.562> crack<00:10:22.192> enterprise<00:10:23.063> for<00:10:23.224> two<00:10:23.386> reasons.

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One,<00:10:23.904> a<00:10:23.968> business<00:10:24.454> model.

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And<00:10:25.247> two,<00:10:26.558> I<00:10:26.574> didn't<00:10:26.866> just<00:10:27.027> want<00:10:27.189> this<00:10:27.367> to<00:10:27.610> be<00:10:28.646> kind<00:10:28.743> of<00:10:28.824> a<00:10:28.970> toy,<00:10:29.552> you<00:10:29.649> know,<00:10:29.714> almost<00:10:30.038> use<00:10:30.264> the<00:10:30.523> Clayton<00:10:30.847> Christensen<00:10:31.284> terminology,<00:10:32.890> you<00:10:33.746> know,<00:10:34.700> toys<00:10:35.007> are<00:10:35.039> neat,<00:10:35.669> but<00:10:36.396> at<00:10:36.542> some<00:10:36.800> point,<00:10:37.221> if<00:10:37.366> it's<00:10:37.528> going<00:10:37.770> to<00:10:37.996> matter<00:10:38.320> in<00:10:38.400> our<00:10:38.562> career,<00:10:39.289> it<00:10:39.370> needs<00:10:39.629> to<00:10:39.871> have<00:10:40.033> consequence<00:10:40.744> in<00:10:40.824> the<00:10:40.857> market<00:10:41.228> with<00:10:41.342> employers.

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And<00:10:42.642> so<00:10:42.901> figured<00:10:43.314> we<00:10:43.976> you<00:10:44.056> know,<00:10:44.120> if<00:10:44.217> we<00:10:44.297> could<00:10:44.393> get<00:10:44.634> employers<00:10:45.132> to<00:10:45.276> buy<00:10:45.517> into<00:10:46.062> our<00:10:46.159> point<00:10:46.416> of<00:10:46.544> view,<00:10:47.202> it<00:10:47.282> would<00:10:47.443> give<00:10:47.603> credence<00:10:48.020> to<00:10:48.101> the<00:10:48.229> model<00:10:48.951> and<00:10:49.449> it<00:10:49.529> would<00:10:49.690> make<00:10:49.946> an<00:10:50.235> impact<00:10:50.508> in<00:10:50.572> the<00:10:50.653> world.

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And<00:10:50.957> so,<00:10:51.840> you<00:10:51.872> know,<00:10:51.936> the<00:10:52.017> fork<00:10:52.273> in<00:10:52.338> the<00:10:52.402> road,<00:10:52.594> which<00:10:52.739> we<00:10:52.899> didn't<00:10:53.204> know,<00:10:53.525> was,<00:10:53.846> is<00:10:53.927> this<00:10:54.103> going<00:10:54.183> to<00:10:54.264> be<00:10:54.360> something<00:10:55.050> we<00:10:55.146> go<00:10:55.291> into<00:10:55.467> recruiting?

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So<00:10:56.510> help<00:10:57.393> sort<00:10:57.538> of<00:10:57.634> inventory<00:10:58.196> and<00:10:58.276> track<00:10:58.581> people's<00:10:58.838> learning<00:10:59.239> so<00:10:59.399> recruiters<00:10:59.945> can<00:11:00.105> find<00:11:00.507> you<00:11:00.683> and<00:11:00.763> then,<00:11:01.309> you<00:11:01.341> know,<00:11:01.486> recruit<00:11:01.871> you<00:11:02.047> into<00:11:02.272> organizations.

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Or<00:11:04.054> do<00:11:04.278> we<00:11:04.439> do<00:11:04.535> this<00:11:05.321> inside<00:11:05.642> of<00:11:05.739> companies<00:11:06.220> as<00:11:06.381> part<00:11:06.605> of<00:11:06.718> their<00:11:07.023> corporate<00:11:07.504> training,<00:11:08.291> learning<00:11:08.563> and<00:11:08.676> development?

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And<00:11:10.939> we<00:11:11.035> explored<00:11:11.420> the<00:11:11.500> recruiting<00:11:11.998> first.

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And<00:11:13.410> ultimately<00:11:13.790> we're<00:11:14.150> just<00:11:14.151> kind<00:11:14.250> of<00:11:14.770> frustrated,<00:11:14.771> frustrated,<00:11:15.110> frustrated,<00:11:15.530> frustrated.

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And<00:11:17.450> only<00:11:17.910> after<00:11:18.430> really<00:11:18.790> exhausting<00:11:19.310> ourselves<00:11:19.850> on<00:11:20.050> kind<00:11:20.150> of<00:11:20.770> that,<00:11:20.771> you<00:11:20.950> know,<00:11:21.770> recruiting<00:11:22.230> side<00:11:23.170> of<00:11:23.350> it<00:11:23.630> did<00:11:23.870> we<00:11:24.730> think<00:11:25.370> to<00:11:25.770> go<00:11:26.190> and<00:11:26.450> examine<00:11:26.910> it<00:11:27.330> with<00:11:27.690> inside<00:11:28.170> organizations,<00:11:29.010> with<00:11:29.050> corporate<00:11:29.330> L&D,<00:11:29.830> learning<00:11:30.070> and<00:11:30.270> development.

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And<00:11:31.790> almost<00:11:32.090> as<00:11:32.370> soon<00:11:32.430> as<00:11:32.550> we<00:11:32.690> did,<00:11:33.070> I<00:11:33.090> mean,<00:11:33.230> it<00:11:33.370> just,<00:11:33.850> you<00:11:34.170> know,<00:11:34.350> it<00:11:34.410> was<00:11:34.411> kind<00:11:34.530> of<00:11:34.670> like<00:11:34.750> a<00:11:34.870> hot<00:11:35.030> knife<00:11:35.270> through<00:11:35.450> butter.

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They<00:11:37.790> didn't<00:11:38.170> know<00:11:39.006> Once<00:11:39.182> upon<00:11:39.423> a<00:11:39.504> time,<00:11:40.146> the<00:11:40.226> corporate<00:11:40.612> LMS<00:11:41.093> housed<00:11:41.575> everything<00:11:41.912> that<00:11:42.073> a<00:11:42.137> company<00:11:42.458> would<00:11:42.619> administer.

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But<00:11:43.341> all<00:11:43.437> of<00:11:43.534> a<00:11:43.598> sudden<00:11:43.919> there<00:11:44.144> were<00:11:44.305> companies<00:11:44.722> like<00:11:44.947> Pluralsight<00:11:46.312> and<00:11:46.569> Coursera,<00:11:47.355> which<00:11:47.933> were<00:11:48.094> their<00:11:48.399> own<00:11:48.656> consumer<00:11:49.202> destinations.

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And<00:11:50.101> so<00:11:50.422> companies<00:11:50.984> knew<00:11:51.225> people<00:11:51.482> were<00:11:51.691> learning<00:11:52.654> beyond<00:11:52.991> their<00:11:53.232> walls<00:11:53.714> but<00:11:53.794> didn't<00:11:54.035> have<00:11:54.195> any<00:11:54.356> line<00:11:54.581> of<00:11:54.661> sight<00:11:54.934> into<00:11:55.239> it.

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And<00:11:56.122> so<00:11:56.299> when<00:11:56.508> we<00:11:56.604> showed<00:11:56.909> up<00:11:57.086> and<00:11:57.166> said,<00:11:57.471> hey,<00:11:57.632> we're<00:11:57.744> this<00:11:57.969> platform<00:11:58.450> that's<00:11:58.691> built<00:11:59.077> to<00:11:59.334> track<00:12:00.056> everyone's<00:12:00.602> learning<00:12:00.939> across<00:12:01.405> the<00:12:01.485> entire<00:12:01.887> ecosystem,<00:12:03.267> they<00:12:03.348> were<00:12:03.508> like,<00:12:03.974> you<00:12:04.006> know,<00:12:04.440> Holy<00:12:04.648> shit,<00:12:05.337> that's<00:12:05.497> exactly<00:12:05.818> what<00:12:05.930> we<00:12:06.010> need.

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And<00:12:07.180> so<00:12:07.821> our<00:12:07.917> first<00:12:08.318> client<00:12:09.023> was<00:12:09.263> a<00:12:09.424> used<00:12:09.905> car<00:12:10.225> dealership<00:12:11.187> for<00:12:11.443> $15,000.

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Our<00:12:13.430> second<00:12:13.831> client<00:12:14.152> was<00:12:14.264> a<00:12:14.312> small<00:12:14.632> account<00:12:14.953> for<00:12:15.049> $10,000.

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And<00:12:16.491> then<00:12:16.636> our<00:12:16.748> third<00:12:17.197> account<00:12:18.254> was<00:12:18.431> a<00:12:18.559> global<00:12:18.960> account<00:12:19.280> with<00:12:19.440> Bank<00:12:19.633> of<00:12:19.777> America,<00:12:20.883> you<00:12:20.979> know,<00:12:21.139> multimillion-dollar<00:12:22.405> global<00:12:22.742> account.

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And<00:12:23.848> so<00:12:23.944> it<00:12:24.008> really<00:12:24.248> was<00:12:24.425> this—<00:12:24.745> it<00:12:25.066> took<00:12:25.290> us<00:12:25.466> 3<00:12:25.771> years<00:12:26.829> to<00:12:26.925> get<00:12:27.069> to<00:12:27.213> revenue.

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And<00:12:28.511> then,<00:12:29.152> you<00:12:29.249> know,<00:12:29.617> our<00:12:29.713> third<00:12:30.178> ever<00:12:30.435> client<00:12:30.979> was<00:12:31.220> a<00:12:31.861> multimillion-dollar,<00:12:32.999> multi-year<00:12:33.784> global<00:12:34.746> Fortune<00:12:35.166> 20<00:12:35.585> account,<00:12:36.521> and<00:12:36.860> then<00:12:36.924> it<00:12:37.005> was<00:12:37.102> kind<00:12:37.247> of<00:12:37.408> off<00:12:37.521> to<00:12:37.602> the<00:12:37.683> races.

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That<00:12:39.135> is<00:12:39.280> incredible.

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And<00:12:40.974> what<00:12:41.119> have<00:12:41.280> you<00:12:41.442> learned<00:12:41.684> since?

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Like,<00:12:42.490> once<00:12:42.652> you<00:12:42.748> found<00:12:43.055> product-market<00:12:43.652> fit,<00:12:43.958> what<00:12:44.087> have<00:12:44.200> you<00:12:44.330> learned<00:12:44.459> about<00:12:44.832> leadership<00:12:45.416> and<00:12:45.498> what<00:12:45.643> it<00:12:45.725> means<00:12:45.984> to<00:12:46.130> scale<00:12:46.406> a<00:12:46.471> company?

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Yeah,<00:12:50.823> I<00:12:50.839> mean,<00:12:51.773> you<00:12:51.870> know,<00:12:51.966> so<00:12:52.111> Degreed<00:12:52.369> is<00:12:52.514> now<00:12:52.836> 12<00:12:53.142> years<00:12:53.384> old.

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Thinking<00:12:55.316> back<00:12:55.799> on<00:12:57.007> the<00:12:57.184> early<00:12:57.490> days,<00:12:58.376> one<00:12:58.473> of<00:12:58.569> the<00:12:58.634> things<00:12:58.875> I<00:12:59.117> maybe<00:12:59.294> just<00:12:59.504> didn't<00:12:59.681> even<00:13:00.180> fully<00:13:00.453> appreciate<00:13:01.015> myself.

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I've<00:13:01.610> since<00:13:01.819> started<00:13:02.205> other<00:13:02.382> companies<00:13:03.812> and<00:13:05.419> Degreed<00:13:08.168> just<00:13:08.393> had<00:13:08.570> this<00:13:08.940> uncompromising<00:13:10.025> mission<00:13:10.349> to<00:13:10.511> jailbreak<00:13:11.401> the<00:13:11.498> degree.

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And<00:13:15.126> having<00:13:15.450> that<00:13:15.693> set<00:13:15.936> in<00:13:16.082> stone<00:13:16.665> from<00:13:16.908> the<00:13:16.989> very<00:13:17.200> beginning,<00:13:17.951> orienting<00:13:18.522> everything<00:13:19.257> to<00:13:19.665> it,<00:13:20.971> all<00:13:21.086> of<00:13:21.216> the<00:13:21.314> principles<00:13:21.886> of<00:13:21.984> the<00:13:22.131> organizations,<00:13:24.480> you<00:13:24.937> know,<00:13:25.002> one<00:13:25.410> just<00:13:25.574> tactical<00:13:26.080> example<00:13:26.489> of<00:13:26.635> this<00:13:26.962> is<00:13:28.894> I<00:13:28.974> wrote<00:13:29.119> down,<00:13:30.003> you<00:13:30.067> know,<00:13:30.179> principles<00:13:30.983> that<00:13:32.011> to<00:13:32.108> help<00:13:32.268> guide<00:13:32.445> the<00:13:32.525> organization<00:13:33.136> that<00:13:33.297> I<00:13:33.956> believed<00:13:34.293> would<00:13:34.422> give<00:13:34.534> us<00:13:34.679> the<00:13:34.759> guardrails<00:13:35.338> of<00:13:35.482> being<00:13:35.643> able<00:13:35.868> to,<00:13:36.591> you<00:13:36.687> know,<00:13:36.784> stay<00:13:37.009> focused<00:13:37.395> on<00:13:37.427> this<00:13:37.620> mission.

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And<00:13:39.030> one<00:13:39.210> of<00:13:39.259> them<00:13:39.456> was,<00:13:42.199> one<00:13:42.280> of<00:13:42.312> them<00:13:42.522> is<00:13:42.781> if<00:13:42.926> it<00:13:43.007> ends,<00:13:43.200> it<00:13:43.329> ends.

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We<00:13:44.718> don't<00:13:44.944> exist<00:13:45.186> to<00:13:45.267> be<00:13:45.348> self-perpetuating.

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One<00:13:46.397> of<00:13:46.429> them<00:13:46.639> was<00:13:46.978> we<00:13:47.447> don't<00:13:47.608> exist<00:13:47.850> to<00:13:47.931> be<00:13:48.012> revenue<00:13:48.286> maximizing.

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We<00:13:49.223> exist<00:13:49.562> to<00:13:50.046> accomplish<00:13:50.611> the<00:13:50.660> mission.

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And<00:13:53.030> I<00:13:53.534> took<00:13:53.923> all<00:13:54.167> of<00:13:54.492> our<00:13:54.670> investors<00:13:55.466> through<00:13:55.710> all<00:13:55.807> of<00:13:55.904> our<00:13:56.051> principles,<00:13:56.619> including<00:13:57.106> those.

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And<00:13:59.633> read<00:13:59.809> to<00:13:59.954> them,<00:14:00.227> stated<00:14:00.677> all<00:14:00.773> of<00:14:00.853> our<00:14:00.998> principles<00:14:01.656> before<00:14:02.042> I<00:14:02.122> would<00:14:02.235> allow<00:14:02.459> them<00:14:02.700> to<00:14:02.845> invest.

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And<00:14:04.130> I<00:14:04.226> did<00:14:04.451> so<00:14:04.628> as<00:14:04.708> sort<00:14:04.885> of<00:14:04.933> this<00:14:05.109> pre-qualifier<00:14:06.137> of<00:14:06.298> like,<00:14:06.860> you've<00:14:07.053> got<00:14:07.197> to<00:14:07.278> know<00:14:08.305> this<00:14:08.482> is<00:14:08.627> what<00:14:08.787> I<00:14:09.285> value<00:14:09.831> and<00:14:09.911> this<00:14:10.024> is<00:14:10.152> what<00:14:10.249> I'm<00:14:10.393> optimizing<00:14:10.875> for<00:14:10.988> and<00:14:11.052> this<00:14:11.293> is<00:14:11.598> how<00:14:11.710> I'm<00:14:11.855> going<00:14:12.096> to<00:14:12.192> make<00:14:12.337> decisions.

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And<00:14:13.124> if<00:14:13.284> you<00:14:14.248> sort<00:14:14.424> of<00:14:14.569> can't<00:14:15.131> ultimately<00:14:15.484> support<00:14:15.950> me,<00:14:17.380> you<00:14:17.476> know,<00:14:18.022> as<00:14:18.183> a<00:14:18.279> leader<00:14:18.745> operating<00:14:19.146> this<00:14:19.323> way,<00:14:19.708> then,<00:14:20.110> you<00:14:20.158> know,<00:14:20.270> you<00:14:20.367> shouldn't<00:14:20.752> invest.

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And<00:14:21.876> it<00:14:21.909> sounds<00:14:22.599> maybe<00:14:22.776> very<00:14:22.953> noble<00:14:23.723> and<00:14:24.638> I<00:14:24.654> don't<00:14:24.783> know,<00:14:24.895> maybe<00:14:25.088> in<00:14:25.184> some<00:14:25.344> ways<00:14:25.505> like<00:14:26.483> self-aggrandizing<00:14:27.349> or<00:14:27.430> something.

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But<00:14:28.954> the<00:14:29.034> truth<00:14:29.338> was<00:14:29.515> it<00:14:29.579> was<00:14:29.675> scary<00:14:29.980> and<00:14:30.060> hard.

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I<00:14:30.975> never<00:14:31.344> had<00:14:31.504> competing<00:14:31.905> term<00:14:32.146> sheets.

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And<00:14:33.349> so<00:14:33.686> this<00:14:33.910> was<00:14:34.023> not<00:14:34.231> a<00:14:34.247> way<00:14:34.424> of<00:14:34.568> me<00:14:34.809> choosing<00:14:35.210> between,<00:14:36.156> you<00:14:36.252> know,<00:14:36.493> 6<00:14:37.118> different<00:14:37.455> VCs.

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I<00:14:39.364> pitched<00:14:39.653> 100<00:14:40.102> VCs,<00:14:40.808> got<00:14:40.984> 99<00:14:41.626> nos,<00:14:42.572> got<00:14:42.990> 1<00:14:43.374> yes.

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But<00:14:44.193> before<00:14:44.658> I<00:14:44.754> would<00:14:44.914> take<00:14:45.139> their<00:14:45.251> money,<00:14:46.583> you<00:14:46.663> know,<00:14:46.904> told<00:14:47.144> them<00:14:47.321> that<00:14:48.107> I<00:14:48.123> don't—<00:14:48.845> this<00:14:49.069> company<00:14:49.390> doesn't<00:14:49.631> exist<00:14:49.871> to<00:14:49.967> be<00:14:50.048> revenue<00:14:50.304> maximizing,<00:14:51.555> you<00:14:51.652> know,<00:14:51.812> and<00:14:52.117> if<00:14:52.197> you<00:14:52.277> aren't<00:14:52.486> okay<00:14:52.694> with<00:14:52.855> that,<00:14:53.160> don't,<00:14:53.480> don't<00:14:53.721> give<00:14:53.817> me—<00:14:54.282> don't<00:14:54.363> write<00:14:54.603> the<00:14:54.635> check.

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You<00:14:55.582> know,<00:14:55.678> so<00:14:55.758> it<00:14:55.806> was<00:14:55.966> really<00:14:56.143> scary,<00:14:57.008> but<00:14:57.200> it<00:14:57.281> was<00:14:57.569> a<00:14:57.649> way<00:14:57.970> of,<00:14:58.771> you<00:14:58.851> know,<00:14:58.947> qualifying<00:14:59.428> that<00:14:59.652> side<00:14:59.893> of<00:14:59.925> the<00:15:00.053> business<00:15:00.470> to<00:15:00.550> stay<00:15:00.790> aligned<00:15:01.191> to<00:15:01.271> the<00:15:01.335> mission.

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And,<00:15:02.313> you<00:15:02.409> know,<00:15:02.473> there's<00:15:02.698> many<00:15:03.018> other<00:15:03.194> ways<00:15:03.499> in<00:15:03.579> which,<00:15:04.461> as<00:15:04.957> keeping<00:15:05.198> the<00:15:05.342> employees<00:15:05.983> and<00:15:06.400> keeping<00:15:06.704> how<00:15:07.185> our<00:15:07.361> business<00:15:07.826> model<00:15:08.067> sort<00:15:08.259> of<00:15:08.547> oriented,<00:15:09.765> you<00:15:09.845> know,<00:15:09.910> I'll<00:15:10.422> give<00:15:10.551> you<00:15:10.727> one<00:15:11.128> more<00:15:11.464> is<00:15:11.608> just<00:15:12.073> data<00:15:12.314> ownership.

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So<00:15:13.291> for<00:15:13.452> it<00:15:13.532> to<00:15:13.612> be<00:15:13.836> lifelong<00:15:14.333> learning,<00:15:15.118> the<00:15:15.214> employee<00:15:15.839> needs<00:15:16.080> to<00:15:16.240> own<00:15:16.400> their<00:15:16.561> data.

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And<00:15:17.683> so<00:15:17.779> that's<00:15:18.019> very<00:15:18.660> anomalous<00:15:19.462> to<00:15:19.542> have<00:15:20.103> a<00:15:20.247> corporate<00:15:20.664> enterprise<00:15:21.385> SaaS<00:15:21.866> business<00:15:22.987> where<00:15:23.372> the<00:15:23.532> employer<00:15:24.109> doesn't<00:15:24.574> own<00:15:24.734> the<00:15:24.830> data.

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But<00:15:25.953> where<00:15:26.113> the<00:15:26.418> end<00:15:26.755> user<00:15:27.300> owns<00:15:27.557> their<00:15:27.798> data.

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And,<00:15:29.402> you<00:15:29.498> know,<00:15:29.627> that<00:15:29.739> makes<00:15:30.365> getting<00:15:30.605> through<00:15:30.846> info<00:15:31.087> security<00:15:32.033> and<00:15:32.129> procurement,<00:15:33.397> you<00:15:33.509> know,<00:15:33.734> just<00:15:34.135> all<00:15:34.359> the<00:15:34.456> harder.

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Every<00:15:35.322> account<00:15:35.659> we<00:15:35.803> close<00:15:37.247> is<00:15:37.648> even<00:15:37.985> harder<00:15:39.172> because<00:15:39.429> of<00:15:39.493> our<00:15:39.654> data<00:15:39.975> ownership<00:15:40.376> model.

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But<00:15:41.499> we<00:15:42.541> held<00:15:42.942> on<00:15:43.199> to<00:15:43.344> that,<00:15:43.825> you<00:15:43.857> know,<00:15:44.082> principle<00:15:44.787> so<00:15:45.285> that<00:15:45.910> this<00:15:46.151> mission<00:15:46.568> can<00:15:46.873> ultimately<00:15:48.012> kind<00:15:48.189> of<00:15:48.253> be<00:15:48.397> fulfilled.

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So,<00:15:49.921> you<00:15:49.953> know,<00:15:50.098> that's,<00:15:50.483> that's<00:15:52.023> kind<00:15:52.152> of<00:15:52.184> how<00:15:52.280> we<00:15:52.409> kept<00:15:52.666> it<00:15:53.147> pointed<00:15:53.533> at<00:15:53.629> that<00:15:53.725> North<00:15:53.950> Star.

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I've<00:15:55.475> obviously,<00:15:55.861> like,<00:15:56.021> I've,<00:15:56.599> I<00:15:56.680> think<00:15:56.904> I've<00:15:57.001> interviewed<00:15:57.338> before.

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I<00:15:57.787> think<00:15:57.884> one<00:15:57.980> of<00:15:58.028> my<00:15:58.285> first<00:15:58.542> events<00:15:58.911> actually<00:15:59.152> was<00:15:59.313> you<00:15:59.650> and<00:15:59.971> Ryan<00:16:00.276> Caldwell,<00:16:01.079> uh,<00:16:01.416> at<00:16:01.641> BYU<00:16:02.203> or<00:16:02.235> something<00:16:02.476> like<00:16:02.604> that.

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Like,<00:16:03.182> we've<00:16:03.343> done<00:16:03.985> a<00:16:04.049> variety<00:16:04.451> of<00:16:04.547> things,<00:16:04.788> and<00:16:04.868> so<00:16:05.109> I,<00:16:05.430> I<00:16:05.976> think<00:16:06.137> I<00:16:06.217> have<00:16:06.329> a<00:16:06.393> sense<00:16:06.699> for<00:16:06.795> what<00:16:06.939> your<00:16:07.100> answer<00:16:07.357> is<00:16:07.501> here,<00:16:07.598> but<00:16:07.822> for<00:16:07.919> the,<00:16:08.481> for<00:16:08.561> those<00:16:08.722> who<00:16:08.802> are<00:16:08.946> listening<00:16:09.268> or<00:16:09.348> watching<00:16:09.749> or<00:16:09.781> maybe<00:16:09.974> hearing<00:16:10.247> you<00:16:10.327> for<00:16:10.440> the<00:16:10.552> first<00:16:10.809> time,<00:16:11.114> what<00:16:11.435> is<00:16:11.756> wrong<00:16:13.057> with<00:16:13.217> the<00:16:13.362> university<00:16:13.795> system?

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Oh<00:16:17.934> man.

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Oh,<00:16:22.276> so<00:16:22.517> many<00:16:22.678> ways<00:16:22.936> to<00:16:23.386> answer<00:16:23.627> that.

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So<00:16:24.270> first,<00:16:24.512> I'm<00:16:24.608> not<00:16:24.849> anti-university.

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We<00:16:25.752> desperately<00:16:26.255> need<00:16:26.499> them<00:16:26.580> in<00:16:26.710> the<00:16:26.791> solution<00:16:27.311> set,<00:16:28.025> but<00:16:29.487> the<00:16:29.568> narrative<00:16:30.136> and<00:16:30.299> generationally,<00:16:32.127> it's<00:16:32.336> so<00:16:32.514> warped<00:16:32.934> because<00:16:33.579> it<00:16:33.740> worked<00:16:33.999> for<00:16:34.128> our<00:16:34.225> grandparents.

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It<00:16:34.870> even<00:16:35.032> worked<00:16:35.258> for<00:16:35.338> our<00:16:35.516> parents.

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And<00:16:36.161> so<00:16:36.323> they<00:16:37.065> know<00:16:37.226> it<00:16:37.356> worked<00:16:37.533> for<00:16:37.694> them<00:16:38.017> and<00:16:38.179> the<00:16:38.324> advice<00:16:38.743> that<00:16:38.840> they're<00:16:38.986> now<00:16:39.292> giving,<00:16:40.530> but<00:16:40.685> it's<00:16:40.857> just<00:16:41.132> skewed.

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In<00:16:43.319> 1976,<00:16:44.411> you<00:16:44.491> could<00:16:44.587> pay<00:16:44.828> for<00:16:45.053> full<00:16:45.534> Harvard<00:16:45.871> tuition<00:16:46.578> if<00:16:46.674> you<00:16:46.835> worked<00:16:47.878> full-time<00:16:48.520> for<00:16:48.681> 3<00:16:48.922> months<00:16:49.162> in<00:16:49.243> the<00:16:49.339> summer<00:16:50.029> at<00:16:50.190> a<00:16:50.350> minimum<00:16:50.752> wage<00:16:51.008> job.

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And<00:16:51.570> now<00:16:51.667> if<00:16:51.811> you<00:16:51.956> worked<00:16:52.277> full-time,<00:16:53.095> 12<00:16:53.416> months<00:16:53.657> a<00:16:53.738> year<00:16:54.540> on<00:16:54.620> a<00:16:54.636> minimum<00:16:54.958> wage<00:16:55.247> job,<00:16:55.503> you<00:16:55.664> couldn't<00:16:55.969> pay<00:16:56.162> for<00:16:57.012> tuition.

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I<00:16:57.414> mean,<00:16:57.574> it's<00:16:57.671> just<00:16:57.992> generationally,<00:16:59.115> the<00:16:59.340> equation<00:16:59.918> has<00:17:00.079> just<00:17:00.384> gotten<00:17:00.640> so<00:17:01.860> skewed.

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And<00:17:02.808> just<00:17:04.076> 2<00:17:04.252> more<00:17:04.429> stats.

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I<00:17:04.878> mean,<00:17:04.975> I<00:17:05.055> could<00:17:05.199> go<00:17:05.296> a<00:17:05.376> lot<00:17:05.553> of<00:17:05.617> directions<00:17:06.082> with<00:17:06.243> this,<00:17:07.367> but<00:17:07.447> right<00:17:07.559> now<00:17:07.768> in<00:17:07.864> higher<00:17:08.089> education,<00:17:08.731> we<00:17:08.795> have<00:17:08.972> about<00:17:09.165> a<00:17:09.229> 55%<00:17:10.192> graduation<00:17:10.818> rate<00:17:10.979> after<00:17:11.219> time<00:17:11.460> and<00:17:11.541> a<00:17:11.621> half.

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So<00:17:12.616> that's<00:17:13.226> at<00:17:13.387> the<00:17:13.419> 6-year<00:17:14.270> mark,<00:17:14.688> how<00:17:14.864> many<00:17:15.089> people<00:17:15.394> have<00:17:15.571> graduated<00:17:16.133> from<00:17:16.358> a<00:17:16.390> 4-year<00:17:17.177> degree.

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And<00:17:18.381> right<00:17:18.494> now<00:17:18.702> the<00:17:18.783> number's<00:17:19.040> about<00:17:19.264> 55%.

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It's<00:17:20.694> even<00:17:20.935> worse<00:17:21.192> if<00:17:21.272> you<00:17:21.336> measure<00:17:21.593> it<00:17:21.738> at<00:17:21.898> 4<00:17:22.139> years,<00:17:23.119> you<00:17:23.231> know,<00:17:23.440> and<00:17:23.681> then<00:17:24.307> of<00:17:24.468> those<00:17:24.725> who<00:17:24.949> graduate,<00:17:26.893> the<00:17:26.989> malemployment<00:17:27.920> rate<00:17:28.258> is<00:17:28.482> also<00:17:29.125> north<00:17:29.382> of<00:17:29.462> 50%.

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So<00:17:30.972> that's<00:17:31.229> how<00:17:31.405> many<00:17:31.694> people<00:17:31.951> get<00:17:32.112> a<00:17:32.192> job<00:17:32.610> that<00:17:33.220> necessitated,<00:17:34.023> requires<00:17:35.243> their<00:17:35.629> actual<00:17:35.966> degree.

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And<00:17:37.187> so<00:17:37.395> about<00:17:37.652> half<00:17:37.909> of<00:17:37.974> people<00:17:38.230> graduate,<00:17:38.857> and<00:17:39.082> of<00:17:39.242> those<00:17:39.483> who<00:17:39.644> do,<00:17:39.965> half<00:17:40.302> will<00:17:40.543> use<00:17:40.768> their<00:17:40.945> degree.

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And<00:17:43.016> just<00:17:43.256> the<00:17:43.352> price<00:17:43.833> tag<00:17:44.458> on<00:17:44.699> it<00:17:46.222> is—<00:17:46.542> and<00:17:46.703> then<00:17:47.216> it's<00:17:47.360> just<00:17:47.584> the<00:17:47.664> price<00:17:47.841> tag<00:17:48.017> has<00:17:48.145> gotten<00:17:48.322> too<00:17:48.466> expensive,<00:17:50.229> you<00:17:50.261> know.

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And<00:17:50.646> so<00:17:50.806> the<00:17:51.030> ROI<00:17:51.592> of<00:17:51.688> it<00:17:51.768> all<00:17:51.864> is<00:17:52.008> just<00:17:52.169> compressing,<00:17:52.649> compressing,<00:17:53.114> compressing,<00:17:53.595> compressing.

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And<00:17:55.054> now<00:17:55.214> you<00:17:55.278> have<00:17:55.390> to<00:17:55.471> be<00:17:55.599> really<00:17:55.919> careful.

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There<00:17:56.641> are—<00:17:57.683> it—<00:17:58.644> 35<00:17:59.125> years<00:17:59.382> ago,<00:18:00.808> it<00:18:00.840> was<00:18:00.985> just<00:18:01.209> universally,<00:18:01.930> if<00:18:02.011> you<00:18:02.107> got<00:18:02.363> accepted,<00:18:02.892> go.

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Every<00:18:04.175> degree<00:18:04.671> from<00:18:05.056> every<00:18:05.393> university<00:18:06.178> had<00:18:06.290> a<00:18:06.355> positive<00:18:07.236> lifetime<00:18:07.797> ROI.

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But<00:18:08.983> that<00:18:09.176> is<00:18:09.304> no<00:18:09.464> longer<00:18:09.785> true.

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There<00:18:10.682> are<00:18:10.827> a<00:18:10.923> whole<00:18:11.404> bunch<00:18:11.708> of<00:18:11.869> majors<00:18:12.430> that<00:18:12.590> you<00:18:12.686> can<00:18:12.847> graduate<00:18:13.408> in.

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So<00:18:14.049> it's<00:18:14.353> major<00:18:14.770> plus<00:18:15.235> the<00:18:15.331> institution<00:18:15.972> combination.

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But<00:18:17.335> man,<00:18:17.896> now<00:18:18.056> the<00:18:18.201> list<00:18:18.457> is<00:18:18.601> long.

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There<00:18:19.499> are<00:18:19.595> many<00:18:20.862> majors<00:18:21.423> you<00:18:21.583> can<00:18:21.743> graduate<00:18:22.384> from<00:18:23.170> that<00:18:23.330> have<00:18:23.507> a<00:18:23.523> negative<00:18:24.533> lifetime<00:18:25.174> earning.

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It's,<00:18:26.536> it's<00:18:26.873> ROI<00:18:27.514> negative.

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And<00:18:29.919> but<00:18:30.063> the<00:18:30.159> narrative<00:18:30.704> hasn't<00:18:30.961> quite<00:18:31.201> caught<00:18:31.506> up.

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We<00:18:31.698> still<00:18:31.987> have<00:18:32.339> this<00:18:32.564> narrative<00:18:33.109> of<00:18:33.285> like,<00:18:34.632> you<00:18:34.664> know,<00:18:35.994> KIPP<00:18:36.235> Charter<00:18:36.587> School,<00:18:37.373> you<00:18:37.469> know,<00:18:37.597> has,<00:18:38.078> has<00:18:38.318> their<00:18:38.415> students<00:18:39.056> like<00:18:39.296> every<00:18:39.473> morning<00:18:40.162> chant<00:18:40.483> a<00:18:40.499> mantra<00:18:40.899> of<00:18:41.140> like<00:18:41.364> how<00:18:41.476> they're<00:18:41.621> going<00:18:41.845> to<00:18:41.957> go<00:18:42.102> to<00:18:42.246> university.

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And<00:18:43.768> it<00:18:44.008> was<00:18:44.409> cute<00:18:44.809> 20<00:18:45.065> years<00:18:45.322> ago,<00:18:45.626> but<00:18:45.722> now<00:18:46.011> I<00:18:46.091> think<00:18:46.283> it's<00:18:46.427> immoral.

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You're<00:18:48.334> telling<00:18:48.590> these<00:18:48.750> kids<00:18:50.096> the<00:18:50.192> whole<00:18:50.433> point<00:18:50.769> of<00:18:51.057> all<00:18:51.218> of<00:18:51.378> this<00:18:51.618> is<00:18:51.714> to<00:18:51.875> get<00:18:52.051> into<00:18:52.275> university<00:18:53.012> because<00:18:53.397> if<00:18:53.557> you<00:18:53.717> do,<00:18:54.037> you're<00:18:54.262> going<00:18:54.374> to<00:18:54.518> be<00:18:54.678> okay,<00:18:55.079> you'll<00:18:55.239> make<00:18:55.559> it.

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And<00:18:56.681> it<00:18:56.905> used<00:18:57.097> to<00:18:57.226> be<00:18:57.322> true<00:18:57.642> and<00:18:57.722> it's<00:18:57.882> not<00:18:58.187> anymore.

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And<00:18:59.549> so<00:19:00.430> it's<00:19:00.830> just<00:19:01.007> structurally<00:19:02.368> the<00:19:02.513> payout,<00:19:03.250> the<00:19:03.330> payoff<00:19:04.435> is<00:19:04.531> no<00:19:04.708> longer<00:19:05.012> guaranteed<00:19:05.557> to<00:19:05.637> be<00:19:05.733> positive,<00:19:06.999> but<00:19:07.095> the<00:19:07.175> narrative<00:19:07.639> hasn't<00:19:07.960> caught<00:19:08.200> up.

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And<00:19:08.793> so,<00:19:08.953> man,<00:19:09.322> we<00:19:09.418> are<00:19:09.914> saddling<00:19:10.796> so<00:19:11.196> much<00:19:11.725> debt<00:19:12.542> around<00:19:12.783> so<00:19:13.103> many<00:19:13.408> people's<00:19:13.760> necks,<00:19:14.786> and<00:19:14.930> it's<00:19:15.171> just,<00:19:15.972> you<00:19:16.052> know,<00:19:16.229> it's,<00:19:16.533> it's<00:19:16.774> just<00:19:17.094> killing<00:19:17.367> a<00:19:17.431> generation.

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And<00:19:19.130> interestingly,<00:19:19.755> like,<00:19:19.931> our<00:19:20.076> government<00:19:20.541> leaders,<00:19:21.262> um,<00:19:22.464> who,<00:19:23.105> you<00:19:23.201> know,<00:19:23.682> don't<00:19:24.003> know<00:19:24.147> how<00:19:24.179> to<00:19:24.307> solve<00:19:24.500> anything,<00:19:25.445> have,<00:19:25.990> uh,<00:19:26.471> decided<00:19:27.689> like<00:19:27.914> they're<00:19:28.074> going<00:19:28.331> to<00:19:28.491> cancel<00:19:29.212> the<00:19:29.308> student<00:19:29.677> loan<00:19:29.853> debt,<00:19:30.094> which<00:19:30.318> then<00:19:30.494> puts<00:19:30.751> it<00:19:30.879> on<00:19:32.017> society<00:19:32.658> itself<00:19:33.396> and<00:19:33.556> anybody<00:19:33.925> who<00:19:33.957> didn't<00:19:34.181> go.

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I<00:19:34.421> mean,<00:19:34.646> and<00:19:34.806> I<00:19:34.982> don't<00:19:35.303> really<00:19:35.479> know<00:19:35.640> that<00:19:35.784> I<00:19:35.848> have<00:19:35.960> an<00:19:36.024> opinion<00:19:36.329> one<00:19:36.489> way<00:19:36.569> or<00:19:36.649> another<00:19:36.890> about<00:19:37.146> canceling<00:19:37.531> student<00:19:37.707> debt,<00:19:38.188> but<00:19:38.333> it's<00:19:38.493> reached<00:19:38.733> like<00:19:38.974> that<00:19:39.374> level<00:19:40.830> of<00:19:42.053> a<00:19:42.150> crisis<00:19:42.794> to<00:19:42.939> where<00:19:43.100> like,<00:19:43.277> hey,<00:19:43.422> we<00:19:43.502> have<00:19:43.744> all<00:19:43.840> this<00:19:43.969> student<00:19:44.243> loan<00:19:44.404> debt,<00:19:44.565> how<00:19:44.645> do<00:19:44.790> we<00:19:44.967> do<00:19:45.128> this?

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They're<00:19:45.531> not<00:19:45.692> going<00:19:45.788> to<00:19:45.837> be<00:19:45.933> able<00:19:46.062> to<00:19:46.094> pay<00:19:46.175> it<00:19:46.336> back.

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So<00:19:47.769> what<00:19:47.817> do<00:19:47.930> we<00:19:48.091> do<00:19:48.332> here?

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And<00:19:49.939> the<00:19:50.101> idea<00:19:50.538> currently—<00:19:51.170> and<00:19:51.267> again,<00:19:51.493> I<00:19:51.574> don't<00:19:51.801> know<00:19:51.898> that<00:19:52.044> I<00:19:52.691> think<00:19:52.804> it's<00:19:52.934> a<00:19:53.015> good<00:19:53.128> or<00:19:53.274> a<00:19:53.355> bad<00:19:53.597> idea—<00:19:53.840> but<00:19:53.986> the<00:19:54.083> idea<00:19:54.310> currently<00:19:54.633> is<00:19:54.730> like,<00:19:54.892> let's<00:19:55.054> just<00:19:55.216> cancel<00:19:55.540> it.

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What<00:19:56.187> are<00:19:56.252> your<00:19:56.349> thoughts<00:19:56.754> on<00:19:56.834> that?

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Yeah,<00:19:59.274> so,<00:19:59.972> you<00:20:00.102> know,<00:20:00.232> we<00:20:00.313> might<00:20:00.475> come<00:20:00.637> around<00:20:00.946> to<00:20:01.027> it,<00:20:01.124> but<00:20:01.222> I<00:20:01.287> stepped<00:20:01.530> down<00:20:01.709> as<00:20:01.790> CEO<00:20:02.163> of<00:20:02.244> Degreed<00:20:02.569> in<00:20:02.666> 2018<00:20:03.316> to<00:20:03.397> do<00:20:03.559> political<00:20:03.884> organizing.

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So<00:20:04.679> I'm<00:20:05.166> also<00:20:05.410> deeply<00:20:05.750> politically<00:20:06.172> motivated.

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Fiercely<00:20:08.305> independent,<00:20:09.049> believe<00:20:09.308> that<00:20:09.534> sort<00:20:09.712> of<00:20:09.761> the<00:20:09.922> ever-widening<00:20:10.570> partisan<00:20:10.909> divide<00:20:11.395> is<00:20:11.961> what's<00:20:12.204> going<00:20:12.430> to<00:20:12.592> fissure<00:20:13.174> American<00:20:13.967> two-party<00:20:14.468> democracy.

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Worthy<00:20:16.767> rivals<00:20:17.169> is<00:20:17.330> okay,<00:20:17.668> to<00:20:17.829> treat<00:20:18.055> each<00:20:18.216> other<00:20:18.393> as<00:20:18.537> enemies<00:20:18.972> is<00:20:19.133> not<00:20:19.439> and<00:20:19.519> will<00:20:19.825> be<00:20:20.743> the<00:20:20.887> ultimate<00:20:21.370> sort<00:20:23.382> of<00:20:23.527> chink<00:20:23.768> in<00:20:23.849> the<00:20:24.010> armor.

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One<00:20:27.221> of<00:20:27.302> the<00:20:27.366> things<00:20:27.544> I've<00:20:27.641> appreciated<00:20:28.191> about<00:20:28.514> the<00:20:28.821> edtech<00:20:29.225> world<00:20:29.629> is<00:20:29.807> that<00:20:31.035> so<00:20:31.407> far<00:20:31.747> it's<00:20:31.989> been<00:20:32.135> able<00:20:32.329> to<00:20:32.539> resist<00:20:33.185> kind<00:20:33.379> of<00:20:33.444> the<00:20:33.525> same<00:20:34.010> binary<00:20:34.721> polarization.

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I<00:20:36.027> mean,<00:20:36.278> you've<00:20:36.446> got<00:20:36.596> these<00:20:36.647> questions<00:20:36.831> of<00:20:36.864> teacher<00:20:36.998> unions<00:20:37.166> and<00:20:39.843> student<00:20:40.244> debt<00:20:40.628> and<00:20:40.708> some<00:20:40.805> of<00:20:40.869> these<00:20:40.965> things.

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And<00:20:42.311> at<00:20:42.408> least<00:20:42.648> in<00:20:42.712> the<00:20:42.808> community,<00:20:43.209> you'll<00:20:43.385> find<00:20:44.572> people<00:20:44.876> typically<00:20:45.293> tend<00:20:45.533> to<00:20:45.614> be<00:20:45.710> still<00:20:45.998> thoughtful<00:20:46.800> and<00:20:47.377> maybe<00:20:47.617> nuanced<00:20:48.178> instead<00:20:48.435> of<00:20:48.563> just<00:20:49.044> immediately<00:20:49.541> tribal<00:20:50.022> and<00:20:50.807> red<00:20:50.920> and<00:20:51.064> blue.

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When<00:20:52.170> it<00:20:52.202> comes<00:20:52.442> to<00:20:52.571> student<00:20:52.907> debt,<00:20:53.212> I<00:20:53.308> don't<00:20:53.693> actually<00:20:54.735> believe<00:20:55.136> that<00:20:55.408> forgiveness<00:20:56.258> is<00:20:56.434> just<00:20:56.674> the<00:20:56.819> right<00:20:57.059> policy<00:20:57.460> mechanism<00:20:57.957> to<00:20:58.053> get<00:20:58.197> us<00:20:58.277> to<00:20:58.358> a<00:20:58.502> better<00:20:58.742> place.

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We<00:20:59.079> can't<00:20:59.271> just<00:20:59.464> keep<00:20:59.784> doing<00:21:00.041> what<00:21:00.201> we're<00:21:00.361> doing<00:21:00.762> and<00:21:00.906> then<00:21:01.163> just<00:21:01.948> kind<00:21:02.109> of<00:21:02.205> forgiving<00:21:03.487> the<00:21:03.648> debt.

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I<00:21:03.984> mean,<00:21:04.112> that<00:21:04.273> isn't<00:21:04.850> a<00:21:04.994> good<00:21:05.235> solution.

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I<00:21:05.892> think<00:21:06.677> the<00:21:06.757> start<00:21:07.575> to<00:21:08.040> a<00:21:08.136> better<00:21:08.553> solution<00:21:09.258> is<00:21:09.434> student<00:21:09.803> debt<00:21:09.979> is<00:21:10.060> the<00:21:10.204> only<00:21:10.364> kind<00:21:10.524> of<00:21:10.621> debt<00:21:10.845> that<00:21:11.282> discharge<00:21:12.551> and<00:21:12.808> bankruptcy.

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And<00:21:14.833> so,<00:21:15.700> you<00:21:15.781> know,<00:21:15.941> that<00:21:16.488> keeps<00:21:19.862> the<00:21:19.959> incentives<00:21:20.682> kind<00:21:20.859> of<00:21:21.004> all<00:21:21.165> skewed.

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And<00:21:23.743> because<00:21:25.838> there's<00:21:26.483> never<00:21:26.789> any<00:21:27.530> downside<00:21:28.159> risk<00:21:28.562> to<00:21:28.739> being<00:21:29.110> the<00:21:29.773> lender,<00:21:31.327> and<00:21:31.506> so<00:21:31.813> then<00:21:32.040> you<00:21:32.137> really<00:21:32.380> don't<00:21:32.623> care<00:21:33.027> about<00:21:33.270> the<00:21:33.416> outcomes.

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And<00:21:34.096> so<00:21:34.242> you're<00:21:34.404> willing<00:21:34.711> to<00:21:34.873> lend<00:21:35.359> irrespective<00:21:36.022> as<00:21:36.265> to<00:21:36.411> whether<00:21:36.557> or<00:21:36.589> not<00:21:36.816> it's<00:21:36.929> going<00:21:37.156> to<00:21:37.301> be<00:21:37.399> a<00:21:37.463> good<00:21:37.577> investment<00:21:38.079> because,<00:21:38.451> you<00:21:38.890> know,<00:21:39.089> ultimately<00:21:39.571> you're<00:21:39.670> going<00:21:39.820> to<00:21:39.903> get<00:21:40.069> paid<00:21:40.252> back<00:21:40.584> one<00:21:40.750> way<00:21:40.817> or<00:21:40.850> another.

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We<00:21:42.874> need<00:21:43.195> to<00:21:44.157> feel,<00:21:45.344> we<00:21:45.440> need<00:21:45.681> the<00:21:45.841> sort<00:21:46.066> of<00:21:46.098> financial<00:21:46.708> repercussions<00:21:47.446> to<00:21:47.590> flow<00:21:48.007> back<00:21:48.408> through<00:21:49.050> to<00:21:49.274> the<00:21:49.306> lenders<00:21:50.573> for<00:21:50.814> good<00:21:51.039> outcomes.

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And<00:21:52.161> if<00:21:52.322> that<00:21:52.498> were<00:21:52.723> true,<00:21:53.685> all<00:21:53.846> of<00:21:53.942> a<00:21:53.958> sudden<00:21:54.503> people<00:21:54.904> wouldn't<00:21:55.450> lend<00:21:56.268> to,<00:21:56.733> oh,<00:21:56.974> you<00:21:57.214> want<00:21:57.455> to<00:21:57.551> go<00:21:57.952> to<00:21:58.738> University<00:21:59.396> XYZ<00:22:00.037> and<00:22:00.198> get<00:22:00.502> major<00:22:01.144> ABC?

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Like,<00:22:03.390> sure,<00:22:03.807> you're<00:22:03.967> welcome<00:22:04.272> to<00:22:04.368> do<00:22:04.513> that<00:22:04.689> on<00:22:04.785> your<00:22:04.930> own<00:22:05.090> dime.

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But<00:22:05.972> as<00:22:06.117> a<00:22:06.277> lender,<00:22:06.774> we're<00:22:06.951> not<00:22:07.256> going<00:22:07.480> to<00:22:07.576> subsidize,<00:22:08.523> you<00:22:08.555> know,<00:22:08.699> we're<00:22:08.811> not<00:22:08.956> going<00:22:09.180> to<00:22:09.968> pay<00:22:10.291> for<00:22:10.453> you<00:22:10.550> to<00:22:10.630> go<00:22:10.727> down<00:22:10.953> that<00:22:11.114> route<00:22:12.083> because<00:22:12.728> the<00:22:12.954> actuaries,<00:22:14.165> you<00:22:14.278> know,<00:22:14.359> sitting<00:22:14.665> behind<00:22:15.053> me<00:22:15.456> now<00:22:15.634> say<00:22:16.037> that<00:22:16.182> that's<00:22:16.425> one<00:22:16.667> of<00:22:16.764> the<00:22:16.844> negative<00:22:17.409> ROI,<00:22:18.781> you<00:22:18.830> know,<00:22:18.958> majors.

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So<00:22:19.990> no<00:22:20.087> thank<00:22:20.539> you.

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And<00:22:22.151> they're—<00:22:22.748> I'm<00:22:22.909> a<00:22:22.974> fierce<00:22:23.699> believer<00:22:24.409> in<00:22:24.651> a<00:22:24.731> broad-based<00:22:25.296> education<00:22:26.037> in<00:22:26.263> liberal<00:22:26.699> arts.

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But<00:22:29.491> ultimately,<00:22:30.637> if<00:22:30.782> the<00:22:30.959> ROI<00:22:31.444> on<00:22:31.589> something<00:22:32.089> gets<00:22:32.557> better,<00:22:32.961> people<00:22:33.235> will<00:22:33.445> consume<00:22:33.864> more<00:22:34.187> of<00:22:34.349> it.

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So<00:22:35.252> we've<00:22:35.398> got<00:22:35.591> to<00:22:35.640> fix<00:22:35.882> the<00:22:35.964> solution.

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This<00:22:36.700> isn't<00:22:36.863> like<00:22:37.108> a,<00:22:37.255> hey,<00:22:37.501> everyone<00:22:37.844> needs<00:22:38.007> to<00:22:38.105> be<00:22:38.253> a<00:22:38.334> business<00:22:38.743> major<00:22:38.874> and/or<00:22:39.037> an<00:22:39.070> engineer,<00:22:39.233> and<00:22:39.381> otherwise<00:22:39.528> we<00:22:41.530> we<00:22:41.594> didn't<00:22:41.706> have<00:22:42.107> any<00:22:42.203> federal<00:22:42.621> support<00:22:43.150> for<00:22:43.343> our<00:22:43.391> education<00:22:44.033> system,<00:22:45.092> but<00:22:45.188> we've<00:22:45.397> got<00:22:45.525> to<00:22:45.653> clean<00:22:46.039> it<00:22:46.199> up,<00:22:47.419> get<00:22:47.579> the<00:22:47.740> ROI<00:22:48.205> working<00:22:48.526> for<00:22:48.702> people<00:22:49.087> again.

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And<00:22:50.066> when<00:22:50.307> we<00:22:50.612> do,<00:22:51.510> people<00:22:51.912> will<00:22:52.216> learn<00:22:52.553> more<00:22:53.580> and<00:22:53.757> more<00:22:53.998> of<00:22:54.303> all<00:22:54.559> of<00:22:54.784> the<00:22:54.880> things.

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And<00:22:56.003> so,<00:22:56.405> you<00:22:56.565> know,<00:22:57.111> but<00:22:57.528> right<00:22:57.672> now,<00:22:58.009> are<00:22:58.106> we<00:22:58.234> headed<00:22:58.426> that<00:22:58.571> direction?

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I<00:22:59.068> mean,<00:23:00.015> you<00:23:00.095> know,<00:23:00.272> there's<00:23:00.432> a<00:23:00.448> lot<00:23:00.593> of<00:23:00.657> people<00:23:00.882> chipping<00:23:01.138> away<00:23:01.299> at<00:23:01.363> the<00:23:01.443> problem,<00:23:01.941> but<00:23:02.262> for<00:23:02.438> the<00:23:02.518> most<00:23:02.807> part,<00:23:03.321> no,<00:23:03.770> we<00:23:03.866> haven't<00:23:04.267> meaningfully<00:23:05.375> sort<00:23:05.567> of<00:23:05.615> started,<00:23:06.674> you<00:23:06.755> know,<00:23:07.236> rebuilding<00:23:07.798> this<00:23:07.958> in<00:23:08.054> the<00:23:08.119> way<00:23:08.279> I<00:23:08.423> think<00:23:08.600> we<00:23:08.680> need<00:23:08.905> to.

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Yeah,<00:23:10.092> it<00:23:10.125> does<00:23:10.285> seem<00:23:10.445> like<00:23:10.670> the<00:23:10.766> whole<00:23:10.991> idea<00:23:11.232> is<00:23:11.328> like<00:23:11.794> we're<00:23:11.970> just<00:23:12.115> going<00:23:12.195> to<00:23:12.291> cancel<00:23:12.612> the<00:23:12.692> student<00:23:13.013> debt<00:23:13.174> and<00:23:13.254> then<00:23:13.479> all<00:23:13.655> this<00:23:13.816> problem<00:23:14.137> goes<00:23:14.361> away.

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It<00:23:14.698> doesn't<00:23:14.923> seem<00:23:15.083> like<00:23:15.260> that<00:23:15.725> at<00:23:15.822> all.

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In<00:23:16.287> fact,<00:23:17.106> part<00:23:17.346> of<00:23:17.667> what<00:23:17.828> we're<00:23:17.940> saying<00:23:18.325> is<00:23:18.454> like<00:23:18.710> you<00:23:18.791> should<00:23:19.176> keep<00:23:19.497> going<00:23:19.914> in<00:23:20.075> debt<00:23:21.278> for<00:23:22.081> to<00:23:22.161> go<00:23:22.321> to<00:23:22.402> university<00:23:23.589> because,<00:23:24.392> uh,<00:23:24.809> the<00:23:24.889> government<00:23:25.354> will<00:23:25.451> pay<00:23:25.852> it<00:23:26.077> or<00:23:26.189> you<00:23:26.333> don't<00:23:26.462> have<00:23:26.510> to<00:23:26.654> pay<00:23:26.719> it<00:23:26.815> back.

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Like,<00:23:27.681> and,<00:23:28.259> but<00:23:28.420> we're<00:23:28.516> not<00:23:28.741> addressing<00:23:29.206> like,<00:23:29.944> should<00:23:30.121> you<00:23:30.249> even<00:23:30.426> be<00:23:30.570> doing<00:23:30.827> this?

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Yeah.

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And<00:23:32.833> there's,<00:23:33.539> um,<00:23:34.438> you<00:23:34.470> know,<00:23:34.534> I'll<00:23:34.743> add<00:23:35.160> one<00:23:35.272> more<00:23:35.465> thing<00:23:35.641> to<00:23:35.706> this<00:23:35.882> conversation,<00:23:36.428> which<00:23:36.669> is<00:23:37.070> I<00:23:37.086> think<00:23:37.246> there's<00:23:37.423> a<00:23:37.551> really<00:23:37.808> dangerous<00:23:38.370> trend<00:23:40.616> which<00:23:40.920> is<00:23:41.883> now<00:23:42.284> you're<00:23:42.380> seeing<00:23:42.878> some<00:23:43.246> employers<00:23:44.530> offer<00:23:44.786> free<00:23:45.252> university<00:23:46.856> as<00:23:47.257> an<00:23:47.513> employer<00:23:48.075> benefit.

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So<00:23:49.021> companies<00:23:49.583> like<00:23:50.000> Walmart,<00:23:50.465> companies<00:23:50.898> like<00:23:51.187> Disney,<00:23:52.005> companies<00:23:52.390> like<00:23:53.352> Home<00:23:54.411> Depot<00:23:55.133> and<00:23:55.358> Chipotle,<00:23:56.817> they<00:23:57.042> are<00:23:57.202> offering<00:23:58.341> free<00:23:58.566> university<00:23:59.785> to<00:23:59.881> their<00:24:00.026> employees.

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But<00:24:02.111> what<00:24:02.335> that<00:24:02.512> did<00:24:02.833> is<00:24:03.715> we've<00:24:03.940> shifted<00:24:04.581> who's<00:24:05.078> now<00:24:05.239> willing<00:24:05.560> to<00:24:05.720> pay<00:24:07.002> Chipotle<00:24:07.725> isn't<00:24:08.046> paying<00:24:08.368> for<00:24:08.480> their<00:24:08.609> people<00:24:08.995> to<00:24:09.171> go<00:24:10.135> to<00:24:10.521> university<00:24:12.289> because<00:24:12.610> they<00:24:12.706> care<00:24:13.269> about<00:24:13.494> the<00:24:13.590> education.

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They<00:24:15.197> are<00:24:15.342> doing<00:24:15.663> it<00:24:16.404> because<00:24:16.810> it's<00:24:16.972> the<00:24:17.053> cheapest<00:24:18.351> way<00:24:18.741> of<00:24:18.919> retaining<00:24:19.568> employees<00:24:20.282> for<00:24:20.461> the<00:24:20.558> longest.

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But<00:24:24.742> what<00:24:24.984> it<00:24:25.146> did<00:24:25.791> is<00:24:26.017> right<00:24:26.259> as<00:24:26.437> people<00:24:26.824> were<00:24:27.017> starting<00:24:27.469> to<00:24:27.566> vote<00:24:27.792> with<00:24:27.873> their<00:24:28.115> feet,<00:24:28.453> and<00:24:28.599> so<00:24:29.099> undergraduate<00:24:29.905> enrollment<00:24:30.551> is<00:24:30.809> now<00:24:31.116> down<00:24:31.519> year<00:24:31.761> over<00:24:31.987> year,<00:24:32.261> and<00:24:32.874> that's<00:24:33.052> part<00:24:33.358> demographics,<00:24:34.149> but<00:24:34.246> it's<00:24:34.413> also<00:24:34.496> because<00:24:34.596> the<00:24:34.630> ROI,<00:24:34.713> marginal<00:24:35.080> benefit<00:24:35.396> equals<00:24:35.563> marginal<00:24:35.880> cost.

00:24:38.342 --> 00:24:43.920
We<00:24:38.422> finally<00:24:38.695> have<00:24:38.823> just<00:24:38.983> gotten<00:24:39.224> to<00:24:39.320> where<00:24:39.464> people<00:24:39.688> are<00:24:39.785> starting<00:24:40.265> to<00:24:40.410> vote<00:24:40.570> with<00:24:40.666> their<00:24:40.827> feet<00:24:41.628> and<00:24:41.708> we're<00:24:41.820> starting<00:24:42.333> to<00:24:42.414> see<00:24:42.590> other<00:24:42.750> pathways<00:24:43.231> get<00:24:43.391> developed.

00:24:44.738 --> 00:24:52.657
And<00:24:44.978> right<00:24:45.171> as<00:24:45.299> that<00:24:45.411> moment<00:24:45.940> kind<00:24:46.100> of<00:24:46.133> was<00:24:46.357> coming,<00:24:47.639> employers<00:24:48.425> were<00:24:48.537> like,<00:24:49.627> hey,<00:24:50.028> don't<00:24:50.364> you<00:24:50.509> worry<00:24:50.605> about<00:24:50.926> footing<00:24:51.182> the<00:24:51.326> bill,<00:24:51.727> we'll<00:24:51.951> pay<00:24:52.192> for<00:24:52.529> it.

00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:58.155
You<00:24:53.346> know,<00:24:53.571> come<00:24:53.795> and<00:24:53.891> scoop,<00:24:54.452> scoop<00:24:54.773> guacamole<00:24:55.334> for<00:24:55.654> us<00:24:55.959> and<00:24:56.119> we<00:24:56.280> will<00:24:56.376> pay<00:24:56.616> for<00:24:56.841> your,<00:24:57.241> your<00:24:57.402> online<00:24:57.722> degree.

00:24:59.085 --> 00:25:07.773
And,<00:24:59.566> you<00:24:59.646> know,<00:24:59.806> those—<00:25:00.688> the<00:25:00.768> graduation<00:25:01.345> rate<00:25:01.586> for<00:25:01.666> people<00:25:02.050> pursuing<00:25:02.852> higher<00:25:03.028> education<00:25:03.509> that<00:25:03.653> way<00:25:03.814> is<00:25:03.910> abysmal,<00:25:04.711> like<00:25:04.936> truly<00:25:05.273> abysmal,<00:25:05.657> single-digit,<00:25:06.699> you<00:25:06.779> know,<00:25:06.876> graduation<00:25:07.501> rates.

00:25:07.837 --> 00:25:19.896
It<00:25:08.142> isn't<00:25:08.623> a<00:25:08.959> good<00:25:09.200> pathway<00:25:10.308> to<00:25:10.486> degrees,<00:25:11.845> but<00:25:11.942> Chipotle<00:25:12.589> is<00:25:12.734> willing<00:25:13.058> to<00:25:13.220> do<00:25:13.462> it<00:25:13.802> just<00:25:14.125> because,<00:25:15.160> oh,<00:25:15.258> our<00:25:15.419> employees<00:25:15.824> used<00:25:16.050> to<00:25:16.147> stay<00:25:16.551> on<00:25:16.697> average<00:25:17.037> for<00:25:17.198> 5<00:25:17.506> months<00:25:17.829> and<00:25:17.878> now<00:25:18.007> they're<00:25:18.169> willing<00:25:18.557> on<00:25:18.719> average<00:25:19.123> to<00:25:19.220> stay<00:25:19.366> for<00:25:19.542> 10.

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And<00:25:20.652> you<00:25:20.684> know<00:25:20.909> what?

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That's<00:25:21.375> cheaper<00:25:21.713> than<00:25:21.873> paying<00:25:22.902> sort<00:25:23.143> of<00:25:23.304> the<00:25:23.401> recruiting<00:25:23.947> and<00:25:24.044> turnover<00:25:24.590> fees,<00:25:25.475> you<00:25:25.555> know,<00:25:25.667> to<00:25:25.732> pay<00:25:25.957> for<00:25:26.118> 2<00:25:26.294> semesters<00:25:26.873> of<00:25:26.937> an<00:25:27.082> online<00:25:27.404> degree.

00:25:29.165 --> 00:25:36.863
And<00:25:29.294> that's,<00:25:29.585> I<00:25:29.714> think,<00:25:29.827> a<00:25:29.891> pretty<00:25:30.214> dangerous<00:25:31.829> kind<00:25:32.055> of<00:25:32.152> shift<00:25:33.040> because<00:25:33.509> what<00:25:33.606> it's<00:25:33.767> doing<00:25:34.074> is<00:25:34.171> it's<00:25:34.397> propping<00:25:35.123> up<00:25:36.077> the<00:25:36.109> system.

00:25:37.617 --> 00:25:40.922
You<00:25:37.713> know,<00:25:38.082> now<00:25:38.403> universities<00:25:39.141> don't<00:25:39.414> need<00:25:39.526> to<00:25:39.622> bring<00:25:39.847> their<00:25:40.007> tuition<00:25:40.408> rates<00:25:40.665> down.

00:25:40.986 --> 00:25:44.210
They<00:25:41.066> just<00:25:41.227> found<00:25:41.483> someone<00:25:41.772> who's<00:25:41.932> willing<00:25:42.189> to<00:25:42.333> pay<00:25:42.590> that<00:25:42.767> exorbitant,<00:25:43.553> you<00:25:43.633> know,<00:25:43.874> rate.

00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:51.061
And<00:25:45.718> so<00:25:45.879> now<00:25:46.440> tuition's<00:25:47.066> going<00:25:47.243> to<00:25:47.387> kind<00:25:47.563> of<00:25:47.628> hover<00:25:47.948> around<00:25:48.349> where<00:25:48.526> it<00:25:48.670> is<00:25:48.927> for<00:25:49.007> another,<00:25:49.729> you<00:25:49.809> know,<00:25:50.050> probably<00:25:50.275> 2<00:25:50.451> decades.

00:25:51.734 --> 00:25:56.563
You<00:25:51.831> know,<00:25:51.975> when<00:25:52.280> I,<00:25:52.601> I<00:25:52.681> think<00:25:52.841> we're<00:25:53.082> finally<00:25:53.419> at<00:25:53.483> the<00:25:53.515> moment<00:25:53.820> where<00:25:53.980> we're<00:25:54.205> going<00:25:54.285> to<00:25:54.382> see<00:25:54.558> some<00:25:54.783> real<00:25:55.344> downward<00:25:55.825> pricing<00:25:56.226> pressure.

00:25:57.911 --> 00:26:01.825
And<00:25:58.152> to<00:25:58.456> add<00:25:58.633> to<00:25:58.729> the<00:25:58.857> problem<00:25:59.419> even<00:25:59.660> further,<00:26:01.023> artificial<00:26:01.521> intelligence.

00:26:03.228 --> 00:26:05.949
Um,<00:26:03.953> how<00:26:04.210> is<00:26:04.436> that<00:26:04.677> going<00:26:04.918> to<00:26:05.015> change<00:26:05.401> education?

00:26:06.062 --> 00:26:14.375
How<00:26:06.223> is<00:26:06.367> that<00:26:06.561> changing<00:26:07.494> companies<00:26:07.897> like<00:26:08.090> Degreed<00:26:09.346> or<00:26:09.909> even<00:26:10.086> like<00:26:10.312> these<00:26:10.489> companies<00:26:10.827> like<00:26:11.036> Pluralsight<00:26:11.922> and<00:26:12.163> on<00:26:12.260> the,<00:26:12.485> who<00:26:12.550> are<00:26:12.663> working<00:26:12.889> on<00:26:12.969> the<00:26:13.131> other<00:26:13.535> end<00:26:13.648> of<00:26:13.712> the<00:26:13.955> spectrum?

00:26:14.843 --> 00:26:20.836
This<00:26:15.005> has<00:26:15.182> to<00:26:15.328> be<00:26:15.505> a<00:26:15.554> mo—<00:26:15.796> I<00:26:15.828> mean,<00:26:15.974> it's<00:26:16.119> going<00:26:16.216> to<00:26:16.281> monumentally<00:26:16.862> shift<00:26:17.169> every<00:26:17.331> industry,<00:26:17.831> but,<00:26:18.542> um,<00:26:18.720> it<00:26:18.752> seems<00:26:18.962> like<00:26:19.124> education's<00:26:19.689> maybe<00:26:20.093> one<00:26:20.190> of<00:26:20.254> the<00:26:20.335> first<00:26:20.642> ones.

00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:22.591
Yeah.

00:26:22.641 --> 00:26:40.014
You<00:26:22.674> know,<00:26:22.808> I<00:26:22.908> mean,<00:26:23.058> it's<00:26:23.308> in<00:26:23.575> the,<00:26:26.186> you<00:26:26.284> know,<00:26:26.432> like<00:26:26.743> when,<00:26:27.234> uh,<00:26:28.688> You<00:26:28.769> see,<00:26:28.946> like,<00:26:29.122> OpenAI,<00:26:30.458> you<00:26:30.490> know,<00:26:30.635> just<00:26:30.876> announced<00:26:31.278> the<00:26:33.112> 4.0,<00:26:34.897> you<00:26:34.978> know,<00:26:35.042> and<00:26:35.139> like<00:26:35.364> when<00:26:35.460> they<00:26:35.798> name<00:26:36.200> the<00:26:36.329> use<00:26:36.506> cases,<00:26:36.924> it's<00:26:37.133> always<00:26:37.294> one<00:26:37.391> of<00:26:37.520> the<00:26:37.600> like<00:26:37.890> 7<00:26:38.276> use<00:26:38.517> cases<00:26:38.984> as<00:26:39.097> a<00:26:39.161> personal<00:26:39.644> tutor.

00:26:41.237 --> 00:26:52.079
What<00:26:41.350> we're<00:26:41.431> seeing<00:26:41.656> so<00:26:41.817> far<00:26:41.978> in<00:26:42.123> the<00:26:42.219> data<00:26:42.622> is<00:26:42.783> that<00:26:43.587> it<00:26:43.732> is<00:26:46.247> in<00:26:46.393> many<00:26:46.571> ways<00:26:46.749> it's<00:26:46.895> kind<00:26:47.041> of<00:26:47.203> leveling<00:26:47.543> the<00:26:47.624> playing<00:26:48.013> field,<00:26:48.596> that<00:26:48.985> AI<00:26:49.244> is<00:26:49.390> the<00:26:49.487> biggest<00:26:49.730> benefit<00:26:50.135> to<00:26:50.281> those<00:26:50.524> with<00:26:50.686> actually<00:26:50.945> the<00:26:51.172> lowest<00:26:51.431> skill<00:26:51.771> level.

00:26:54.141 --> 00:26:56.818
So,<00:26:54.222> I<00:26:54.320> mean,<00:26:54.483> that's<00:26:55.691> positive<00:26:56.197> in<00:26:56.279> some<00:26:56.524> ways.

00:26:58.401 --> 00:27:06.548
I<00:26:58.483> think<00:26:58.630> the<00:26:58.711> challenge<00:26:59.217> is,<00:27:01.057> you<00:27:01.154> know,<00:27:02.190> it's<00:27:02.369> going<00:27:02.466> to<00:27:02.547> be<00:27:02.693> a<00:27:02.774> commodity<00:27:04.863> when<00:27:05.122> all<00:27:05.268> of<00:27:05.349> us<00:27:05.446> have<00:27:05.673> AI<00:27:06.013> in<00:27:06.078> our<00:27:06.256> pocket.

00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.655
You<00:27:07.192> know,<00:27:07.369> is<00:27:07.514> that<00:27:07.675> going<00:27:07.997> to<00:27:08.963> really<00:27:09.269> differentiate<00:27:10.558> you?

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No.

00:27:11.138 --> 00:27:17.543
So,<00:27:11.379> I<00:27:11.395> mean,<00:27:11.540> I<00:27:11.621> think<00:27:12.346> meaningful<00:27:13.634> career<00:27:13.956> success<00:27:14.520> is<00:27:14.584> still<00:27:14.826> going<00:27:14.907> to<00:27:14.987> correlate<00:27:15.486> with<00:27:15.647> sort<00:27:15.809> of<00:27:16.034> deep<00:27:16.260> foundational<00:27:16.824> skill<00:27:17.235> building.

00:27:21.249 --> 00:27:44.547
And<00:27:21.507> then,<00:27:21.668> I<00:27:21.684> mean,<00:27:21.845> the<00:27:21.990> big<00:27:22.151> shift<00:27:22.538> is<00:27:23.665> I<00:27:25.776> think<00:27:26.001> what<00:27:26.114> it's<00:27:26.340> going<00:27:26.646> to<00:27:26.823> do<00:27:27.371> is<00:27:29.906> part<00:27:30.068> of<00:27:30.133> the<00:27:30.214> reason<00:27:30.457> why<00:27:30.554> college<00:27:30.862> degrees<00:27:31.105> have<00:27:31.186> been<00:27:31.348> so<00:27:31.526> powerful<00:27:31.947> is<00:27:32.077> because<00:27:32.336> it's<00:27:32.498> this<00:27:32.741> one<00:27:33.454> universal<00:27:34.215> heuristic,<00:27:35.074> whether<00:27:36.224> you're<00:27:36.370> from<00:27:36.775> Japan<00:27:38.331> or<00:27:38.558> from<00:27:39.646> Mexico<00:27:40.587> or<00:27:40.928> you're<00:27:41.171> from<00:27:42.064> the<00:27:42.210> UAE,<00:27:43.200> I<00:27:43.281> can<00:27:43.460> say<00:27:43.768> I've<00:27:43.914> got<00:27:44.093> a<00:27:44.174> JD.

00:27:45.356 --> 00:27:46.574
And<00:27:45.532> you<00:27:45.628> know<00:27:45.917> what<00:27:46.013> that<00:27:46.189> means.

00:27:46.958 --> 00:27:50.996
You<00:27:47.038> know,<00:27:48.737> it's<00:27:48.881> the<00:27:49.121> only<00:27:49.362> universal<00:27:49.858> credential<00:27:50.259> we<00:27:50.323> have<00:27:50.499> in<00:27:50.563> the<00:27:50.644> whole<00:27:50.804> world.

00:27:51.060 --> 00:27:55.819
We<00:27:51.124> have<00:27:51.285> other<00:27:51.461> ubiquitous<00:27:52.022> credentials,<00:27:53.928> you<00:27:53.960> know,<00:27:54.040> like<00:27:54.281> a<00:27:54.329> CFA<00:27:55.066> or<00:27:55.146> a<00:27:55.162> CPA.

00:27:56.588 --> 00:28:04.055
But<00:27:56.989> if<00:27:57.133> you're<00:27:57.229> not<00:27:57.469> actually<00:27:57.774> in<00:27:57.870> those<00:27:58.094> industries,<00:27:58.591> you<00:27:58.687> might<00:27:58.911> not<00:27:59.136> actually<00:27:59.408> know,<00:27:59.712> like,<00:28:00.017> how<00:28:00.193> hard,<00:28:01.074> you<00:28:01.155> know,<00:28:01.539> to<00:28:01.635> calibrate<00:28:02.276> what<00:28:02.436> that<00:28:02.981> credential<00:28:03.542> really<00:28:03.734> means.

00:28:04.103 --> 00:28:14.855
You<00:28:04.135> know,<00:28:04.199> if<00:28:04.295> I<00:28:04.359> tell<00:28:04.583> you<00:28:04.663> I'm<00:28:05.096> GNA<00:28:05.785> certified,<00:28:06.202> you<00:28:06.282> probably<00:28:06.522> don't<00:28:06.746> actually<00:28:07.483> have<00:28:07.644> any<00:28:07.804> real<00:28:07.980> sense<00:28:08.445> for,<00:28:09.390> you<00:28:09.486> know,<00:28:09.566> what<00:28:09.663> that<00:28:09.823> means<00:28:10.512> in<00:28:10.672> its<00:28:10.912> industry<00:28:11.409> the<00:28:11.553> way<00:28:11.730> that,<00:28:11.906> like,<00:28:12.114> Series<00:28:12.595> 7<00:28:13.332> you<00:28:13.412> know,<00:28:13.572> might<00:28:13.877> to<00:28:13.973> someone<00:28:14.230> in<00:28:14.358> finance.

00:28:15.592 --> 00:28:24.120
So<00:28:16.217> that's<00:28:16.458> been<00:28:16.602> the<00:28:16.698> power<00:28:16.939> of<00:28:17.083> college<00:28:17.275> degrees<00:28:17.724> is<00:28:17.820> they're<00:28:17.965> ubiquitous,<00:28:19.343> you<00:28:19.423> know,<00:28:19.664> and<00:28:19.728> then<00:28:19.840> we<00:28:19.968> haven't<00:28:20.289> had<00:28:20.545> a<00:28:20.626> way<00:28:21.010> of<00:28:21.571> sort<00:28:21.748> of<00:28:21.828> normalizing<00:28:22.565> or<00:28:22.774> measuring<00:28:23.271> people's<00:28:23.703> skills.

00:28:24.777 --> 00:28:41.128
And<00:28:24.858> that's<00:28:25.098> really<00:28:25.435> the<00:28:25.531> shift<00:28:25.819> that<00:28:25.980> AI,<00:28:26.316> I<00:28:26.396> think,<00:28:26.637> is<00:28:26.781> going<00:28:26.877> to<00:28:26.957> meaningfully<00:28:27.519> bring<00:28:27.999> is<00:28:28.544> all<00:28:28.641> of<00:28:28.721> a<00:28:28.737> sudden,<00:28:29.923> you<00:28:30.003> know,<00:28:30.147> you're<00:28:30.308> going<00:28:30.388> to<00:28:30.420> be<00:28:30.580> able<00:28:30.741> to<00:28:30.965> inventory<00:28:31.767> everyone's<00:28:32.167> skills<00:28:32.504> in<00:28:32.648> real<00:28:32.808> time<00:28:33.434> and<00:28:33.514> then<00:28:33.915> give<00:28:34.155> them<00:28:34.315> a<00:28:34.476> personalized<00:28:35.518> learning<00:28:35.854> and<00:28:35.934> development<00:28:36.415> path<00:28:36.816> forward<00:28:37.217> from<00:28:37.457> that<00:28:37.698> place<00:28:38.659> and<00:28:38.820> be<00:28:38.964> able<00:28:39.140> to<00:28:39.782> manage<00:28:40.118> people's<00:28:40.487> learning<00:28:40.743> that<00:28:40.968> way.

00:28:41.208 --> 00:28:49.272
And<00:28:41.288> we'll<00:28:41.385> be<00:28:41.545> able<00:28:41.705> to<00:28:41.769> manage<00:28:42.266> the<00:28:42.411> workforce<00:28:43.068> and<00:28:43.853> who<00:28:44.254> gets<00:28:44.591> put<00:28:44.847> on<00:28:45.072> on,<00:28:45.623> you<00:28:45.721> know,<00:28:45.948> which<00:28:46.207> projects<00:28:47.099> because<00:28:47.569> they<00:28:47.731> have<00:28:48.169> the<00:28:48.299> unique<00:28:48.639> skill<00:28:48.964> set.

00:28:49.774 --> 00:28:52.498
I<00:28:49.791> think<00:28:49.953> it's<00:28:50.099> going<00:28:50.228> to<00:28:50.261> create<00:28:50.569> for<00:28:50.650> a<00:28:50.666> much<00:28:50.974> more<00:28:51.153> fluid<00:28:51.947> kind<00:28:52.125> of<00:28:52.207> workforce.

00:28:54.556 --> 00:29:04.712
And<00:28:54.636> I<00:28:54.797> think,<00:28:55.295> you<00:28:55.391> know,<00:28:55.471> the<00:28:55.536> last<00:28:55.760> thing<00:28:55.809> I'll<00:28:55.953> say<00:28:56.162> here<00:28:56.419> is<00:28:57.560> sort<00:28:57.769> of<00:28:57.801> the<00:28:57.945> downstream<00:28:59.054> as<00:28:59.231> that<00:28:59.327> matures,<00:29:00.516> you're<00:29:00.596> actually<00:29:00.853> going<00:29:00.950> to<00:29:01.078> start<00:29:01.303> getting<00:29:01.544> paid<00:29:01.865> based<00:29:02.106> on<00:29:02.203> what<00:29:02.347> skills<00:29:02.685> you<00:29:02.829> have<00:29:03.311> instead<00:29:03.584> of<00:29:03.649> just<00:29:03.890> what<00:29:04.050> job<00:29:04.340> you<00:29:04.518> have.

00:29:05.409 --> 00:29:21.866
And<00:29:05.911> we,<00:29:06.300> 10<00:29:06.478> years<00:29:06.721> from<00:29:06.883> now,<00:29:07.110> will<00:29:07.207> think,<00:29:08.001> you<00:29:08.098> know,<00:29:08.811> how<00:29:08.973> absurd<00:29:09.703> and<00:29:09.865> quaint<00:29:10.221> it<00:29:10.367> was<00:29:11.382> that<00:29:12.009> essentially<00:29:13.550> me<00:29:14.112> and,<00:29:14.337> you<00:29:14.369> know,<00:29:14.417> if<00:29:14.577> you're<00:29:14.674> in<00:29:14.770> a<00:29:14.834> big<00:29:14.979> company<00:29:15.396> that<00:29:15.541> you<00:29:15.637> might<00:29:15.878> have<00:29:16.681> 40,<00:29:17.307> 400,<00:29:18.045> 4,000<00:29:18.928> people<00:29:19.233> with<00:29:19.330> the<00:29:19.426> same<00:29:19.731> job<00:29:19.972> title<00:29:20.293> as<00:29:20.453> you<00:29:20.759> getting<00:29:21.015> paid<00:29:21.256> the<00:29:21.353> same<00:29:21.722> thing.

00:29:22.621 --> 00:29:24.676
And<00:29:22.701> we'll<00:29:22.926> look<00:29:23.086> back<00:29:23.343> and<00:29:23.504> think,<00:29:23.841> shit,<00:29:24.066> that<00:29:24.162> was<00:29:24.371> crazy.

00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:27.469
Like<00:29:25.029> you<00:29:25.093> were<00:29:25.190> paying<00:29:25.414> 4,000<00:29:26.233> people<00:29:26.956> the<00:29:27.036> same.

00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.366
Like<00:29:28.465> there's<00:29:28.625> no<00:29:28.786> chance<00:29:29.187> all<00:29:29.284> 4,000<00:29:29.846> of<00:29:29.926> those<00:29:30.151> people<00:29:30.408> have<00:29:30.584> the<00:29:30.664> same,<00:29:31.355> you<00:29:31.387> know,<00:29:31.531> mix<00:29:31.772> of<00:29:31.852> skills.

00:29:32.414 --> 00:29:34.068
Like<00:29:32.575> what<00:29:32.719> were<00:29:32.896> we,<00:29:33.217> what<00:29:33.362> were<00:29:33.522> we<00:29:33.699> doing?

00:29:34.164 --> 00:29:40.249
Like,<00:29:34.341> you<00:29:34.598> know,<00:29:34.807> how,<00:29:35.850> you<00:29:35.946> know,<00:29:36.171> how<00:29:36.428> quaint<00:29:37.215> and<00:29:37.713> outdated<00:29:38.339> that<00:29:38.515> will<00:29:38.740> feel<00:29:39.559> here<00:29:39.864> in<00:29:39.960> a<00:29:40.008> minute.

00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:44.407
Do<00:29:41.495> you<00:29:41.593> think<00:29:41.755> we<00:29:41.837> go<00:29:42.081> from<00:29:42.406> job<00:29:42.731> postings<00:29:43.219> to<00:29:43.366> skills<00:29:43.870> postings?

00:29:46.010 --> 00:29:46.332
Absolutely.

00:29:47.977 --> 00:29:51.332
And<00:29:48.122> what<00:29:48.300> will<00:29:48.445> that<00:29:48.929> look<00:29:49.171> like<00:29:49.445> in<00:29:49.574> terms,<00:29:49.977> like,<00:29:50.171> for<00:29:50.639> companies?

00:29:51.526 --> 00:29:54.639
So<00:29:51.687> they,<00:29:52.010> they<00:29:52.477> advertise,<00:29:52.881> hey,<00:29:52.961> we're<00:29:53.042> here,<00:29:53.203> we're<00:29:53.365> looking<00:29:53.607> for<00:29:53.768> these<00:29:53.978> types<00:29:54.187> of<00:29:54.219> skills.

00:29:55.142 --> 00:30:02.051
They<00:29:55.304> bring<00:29:55.547> them<00:29:55.774> on,<00:29:56.747> and<00:29:57.007> through<00:29:57.396> AI<00:29:57.721> and<00:29:57.802> their<00:29:57.980> own<00:29:58.126> internal<00:29:58.548> training,<00:29:59.034> they<00:29:59.277> build<00:29:59.504> them<00:29:59.683> up<00:30:00.072> and<00:30:00.964> give<00:30:01.126> them<00:30:01.240> advancement<00:30:01.710> that<00:30:01.872> way.

00:30:02.116 --> 00:30:02.894
That's<00:30:02.278> basically<00:30:02.602> what<00:30:02.667> you're<00:30:02.780> saying?

00:30:04.410 --> 00:30:04.623
Yeah.

00:30:04.672 --> 00:30:13.360
So<00:30:04.738> McKinsey's<00:30:05.263> done<00:30:06.002> kind<00:30:06.116> of<00:30:06.166> the<00:30:06.248> first<00:30:08.038> You<00:30:08.118> know,<00:30:08.471> most<00:30:08.711> of<00:30:08.775> the<00:30:08.839> research<00:30:09.176> that's<00:30:09.336> happening<00:30:09.657> on<00:30:09.801> this<00:30:10.042> question<00:30:10.458> is,<00:30:10.763> is,<00:30:11.324> you<00:30:11.356> know,<00:30:11.484> everyone's<00:30:11.821> done<00:30:11.965> like<00:30:12.206> one<00:30:12.446> good<00:30:12.606> wave<00:30:12.863> of<00:30:12.959> research.

00:30:13.424 --> 00:30:19.932
So<00:30:13.600> McKinsey<00:30:14.129> and<00:30:14.209> World<00:30:14.450> Economic<00:30:14.851> Forum<00:30:15.267> and<00:30:15.412> Korn<00:30:15.668> Ferry<00:30:16.149> and,<00:30:16.935> you<00:30:16.967> know,<00:30:17.175> and,<00:30:17.335> and,<00:30:17.496> and<00:30:18.233> McKinsey's<00:30:19.018> got<00:30:19.339> research<00:30:19.820> out.

00:30:19.996 --> 00:30:22.834
It's<00:30:20.141> now<00:30:20.301> actually<00:30:20.541> about<00:30:20.718> a<00:30:20.782> year<00:30:20.958> old<00:30:21.503> on<00:30:21.920> skill-based<00:30:22.481> hiring.

00:30:23.587 --> 00:30:26.488
And<00:30:24.084> what<00:30:24.228> they<00:30:24.324> found,<00:30:24.549> I<00:30:24.629> hope<00:30:24.805> to<00:30:25.046> sort<00:30:25.222> of<00:30:25.366> no<00:30:25.511> one's<00:30:25.671> surprised<00:30:26.008> at<00:30:26.072> this<00:30:26.232> point.

00:30:26.665 --> 00:30:32.051
So<00:30:27.050> they<00:30:27.194> looked<00:30:27.434> at<00:30:27.659> hiring<00:30:27.915> based<00:30:28.156> on<00:30:28.396> credentials,<00:30:29.117> hiring<00:30:29.374> based<00:30:29.614> on<00:30:29.695> work<00:30:29.935> experience,<00:30:30.640> and<00:30:30.736> hiring<00:30:31.137> based<00:30:31.602> on<00:30:31.762> skill.

00:30:32.820 --> 00:30:39.282
And<00:30:32.885> they<00:30:32.981> found<00:30:33.205> that<00:30:33.365> skill-based<00:30:34.023> hiring<00:30:34.504> is<00:30:34.680> more<00:30:34.904> than<00:30:35.065> 5x<00:30:35.866> more<00:30:36.107> predictive<00:30:36.988> of<00:30:37.213> on-the-job<00:30:37.629> success<00:30:38.174> than<00:30:38.335> hiring<00:30:38.575> based<00:30:38.720> on<00:30:38.832> credentials.

00:30:41.388 --> 00:30:44.554
And<00:30:41.484> that<00:30:41.950> hopefully<00:30:42.834> people<00:30:43.075> kind<00:30:43.252> of<00:30:43.397> like<00:30:43.574> just<00:30:43.734> grok<00:30:44.120> at<00:30:44.201> this<00:30:44.377> point.

00:30:44.602 --> 00:31:01.065
Everyone,<00:30:45.181> you<00:30:45.277> know,<00:30:45.438> knows<00:30:45.744> that<00:30:46.145> college<00:30:46.628> was<00:30:47.094> this<00:30:47.254> broad<00:30:47.480> heuristic<00:30:48.143> and,<00:30:48.628> you<00:30:48.661> know,<00:30:48.968> probably<00:30:49.194> shouldn't<00:30:49.356> surprise<00:30:49.680> too<00:30:49.761> many<00:30:49.858> people,<00:30:50.812> but<00:30:50.893> it<00:30:50.926> should<00:30:51.071> blow<00:30:51.249> your<00:30:51.379> freaking<00:30:51.621> mind<00:30:52.042> because<00:30:52.592> 99.9%<00:30:54.256> of<00:30:54.498> every<00:30:55.627> job<00:30:55.885> posting<00:30:56.450> and<00:30:56.595> every<00:30:56.773> company<00:30:57.644> hiring<00:30:58.048> anyone<00:30:58.693> is<00:30:59.016> hiring<00:30:59.500> people<00:30:59.839> based<00:31:00.081> on<00:31:00.162> their<00:31:00.307> work<00:31:00.501> experience.

00:31:01.291 --> 00:31:08.619
So<00:31:01.388> that<00:31:01.598> is<00:31:01.775> the<00:31:01.856> de<00:31:02.001> facto<00:31:02.502> way<00:31:02.744> that<00:31:02.905> we,<00:31:03.615> we<00:31:03.680> find,<00:31:04.101> source,<00:31:05.153> and,<00:31:05.720> you<00:31:05.817> know,<00:31:05.914> filter<00:31:06.449> candidates<00:31:07.113> to<00:31:07.274> be<00:31:07.501> hired<00:31:07.906> for<00:31:08.230> a<00:31:08.408> job.

00:31:09.552 --> 00:31:18.221
But<00:31:09.696> what<00:31:09.792> they<00:31:09.873> found<00:31:10.193> is<00:31:10.289> that<00:31:10.497> skill-based<00:31:11.315> hiring<00:31:11.860> is<00:31:12.020> more<00:31:12.196> than<00:31:12.356> 3.5<00:31:13.302> times<00:31:13.863> predictive<00:31:14.744> of<00:31:15.401> on-the-job<00:31:15.882> success<00:31:16.587> than<00:31:16.747> hiring<00:31:17.148> based<00:31:17.388> on<00:31:17.484> work<00:31:17.660> experience.

00:31:18.926 --> 00:31:22.740
And<00:31:19.071> that<00:31:19.247> should<00:31:19.391> blow<00:31:19.567> your<00:31:19.663> mind,<00:31:20.513> you<00:31:20.545> know,<00:31:20.993> out<00:31:21.170> there<00:31:21.330> available<00:31:21.747> today<00:31:22.051> to<00:31:22.275> anyone.

00:31:23.093 --> 00:31:30.159
Just<00:31:23.333> shift<00:31:23.637> how<00:31:23.798> you're<00:31:23.894> hiring<00:31:24.294> people<00:31:25.000> and,<00:31:25.320> you<00:31:25.416> know,<00:31:25.737> you're<00:31:25.817> going<00:31:26.009> to<00:31:26.057> get<00:31:26.201> a<00:31:26.217> 3x,<00:31:27.884> you<00:31:27.916> know,<00:31:28.140> better<00:31:29.006> outcome<00:31:29.342> and<00:31:29.486> process.

00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.153
I<00:31:30.416> mean,<00:31:30.720> that's<00:31:30.881> huge.

00:31:32.547 --> 00:31:35.399
Why<00:31:32.852> did<00:31:32.948> you<00:31:33.172> leave<00:31:33.428> Degreed<00:31:33.893> in<00:31:34.630> 2018?

00:31:35.896 --> 00:31:39.131
Obviously,<00:31:36.543> and<00:31:36.866> go<00:31:36.963> into<00:31:37.190> politics<00:31:37.772> and<00:31:37.934> into<00:31:38.177> the<00:31:38.339> political<00:31:38.808> arena?

00:31:41.960 --> 00:32:06.508
So<00:31:42.315> the<00:31:42.493> short<00:31:43.513> version<00:31:43.998> of<00:31:44.095> a<00:31:44.160> rabbit<00:31:44.499> hole<00:31:44.645> I'm<00:31:44.742> not<00:31:44.904> sure<00:31:45.049> you<00:31:45.147> want<00:31:45.276> to<00:31:45.308> go<00:31:45.470> down<00:31:45.939> is<00:31:46.263> I<00:31:46.360> ran<00:31:46.667> for<00:31:46.780> the<00:31:46.845> vice<00:31:47.153> presidency<00:31:47.751> of<00:31:47.897> the<00:31:47.961> United<00:31:48.285> States<00:31:48.560> of<00:31:48.641> America,<00:31:52.971> operated<00:31:53.456> as<00:31:53.570> a<00:31:53.634> candidate<00:31:54.201> for<00:31:54.363> a<00:31:54.379> short<00:31:54.687> period<00:31:54.995> of<00:31:55.092> time,<00:31:55.416> and<00:31:55.561> realized<00:31:56.047> that<00:31:57.116> the<00:31:57.262> conversation<00:31:57.828> and<00:31:57.926> change<00:31:58.185> I<00:31:58.217> was<00:31:58.395> hoping<00:31:58.573> to<00:31:58.719> affect<00:31:59.075> was<00:32:01.164> going<00:32:01.407> to<00:32:01.569> be<00:32:03.640> broader-reaching<00:32:04.945> just<00:32:05.122> as<00:32:05.219> a<00:32:05.283> democracy<00:32:05.767> reform<00:32:06.089> initiative.

00:32:06.573 --> 00:32:23.159
And<00:32:06.653> so<00:32:07.201> for<00:32:07.685> about<00:32:07.943> 2<00:32:08.168> years<00:32:09.135> ran<00:32:09.393> Vice.run,<00:32:10.360> which<00:32:10.586> was<00:32:10.828> a<00:32:10.924> signature<00:32:11.408> gathering<00:32:12.681> effort<00:32:13.245> to<00:32:13.342> affect<00:32:13.649> the<00:32:13.746> ballot<00:32:14.069> in<00:32:14.166> every<00:32:14.393> state<00:32:15.023> to<00:32:15.686> be<00:32:15.864> able<00:32:16.010> to<00:32:16.107> vote<00:32:16.398> separately<00:32:16.899> for<00:32:17.061> president<00:32:17.530> and<00:32:17.611> vice<00:32:17.934> president,<00:32:18.920> which<00:32:19.163> is<00:32:19.567> what<00:32:19.810> the<00:32:20.052> 12th<00:32:20.392> Amendment<00:32:20.861> in<00:32:20.925> the<00:32:21.006> Constitution<00:32:21.669> gives<00:32:21.847> us<00:32:22.009> a<00:32:22.057> constitutional<00:32:22.704> right<00:32:22.850> to<00:32:22.963> do.

00:32:23.761 --> 00:32:28.334
But<00:32:24.265> partisan<00:32:25.144> influence<00:32:25.551> over<00:32:25.714> the<00:32:25.811> ballots<00:32:26.218> has<00:32:26.706> kind<00:32:26.869> of<00:32:26.951> polluted<00:32:27.357> and<00:32:27.504> corrupted<00:32:27.911> over<00:32:28.073> time.

00:32:29.842 --> 00:32:35.886
And<00:32:30.430> so<00:32:30.496> that<00:32:30.626> is<00:32:30.724> why<00:32:30.806> I<00:32:30.822> stepped<00:32:30.936> down<00:32:31.051> in<00:32:31.083> 2018,<00:32:33.722> to<00:32:33.866> run<00:32:34.106> for<00:32:34.267> the<00:32:34.347> vice<00:32:34.603> presidency<00:32:35.164> of<00:32:35.228> the<00:32:35.309> United<00:32:35.565> States.

00:32:36.912 --> 00:32:37.585
How<00:32:37.008> did<00:32:37.152> that<00:32:37.409> go?

00:32:38.835 --> 00:32:43.228
And<00:32:39.316> how<00:32:39.477> is—<00:32:40.118> and<00:32:40.278> how<00:32:40.519> is<00:32:41.320> the<00:32:41.496> initiative<00:32:41.977> going<00:32:42.298> in<00:32:42.442> the<00:32:42.522> various<00:32:42.891> states?

00:32:43.276 --> 00:32:44.462
I<00:32:43.645> mean,<00:32:43.741> what<00:32:43.885> was<00:32:43.997> that<00:32:44.206> like?

00:32:44.767 --> 00:32:51.500
Because<00:32:45.023> you<00:32:45.103> never<00:32:45.344> hear<00:32:45.488> anybody<00:32:45.745> say<00:32:45.985> I'm<00:32:46.225> running<00:32:46.546> for<00:32:46.803> vice<00:32:47.187> president<00:32:48.374> of<00:32:48.454> the<00:32:48.534> United<00:32:48.790> States<00:32:49.015> without<00:32:49.752> first<00:32:50.153> being<00:32:50.474> picked<00:32:50.794> by<00:32:50.971> somebody.

00:32:51.580 --> 00:32:51.724
Right.

00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:56.902
Which<00:32:52.077> is<00:32:52.317> what<00:32:52.461> you<00:32:52.542> just<00:32:52.718> described,<00:32:53.183> like<00:32:53.359> it's<00:32:53.519> been<00:32:54.145> captured<00:32:54.545> by<00:32:54.642> these<00:32:54.866> political<00:32:55.187> parties<00:32:55.828> as<00:32:55.988> to<00:32:56.084> why<00:32:56.245> we<00:32:56.325> all<00:32:56.421> think<00:32:56.645> that<00:32:56.790> way.

00:32:58.088 --> 00:32:58.248
Yeah.

00:32:58.329 --> 00:33:08.629
I<00:32:58.345> mean,<00:32:58.874> you<00:32:58.906> know,<00:32:59.371> it's<00:33:00.013> You've<00:33:00.175> kind<00:33:00.337> of<00:33:00.369> maybe<00:33:02.341> traced<00:33:02.842> through<00:33:03.230> how<00:33:03.327> my<00:33:03.569> brain<00:33:03.893> works<00:33:04.200> the<00:33:04.281> same<00:33:04.539> way<00:33:04.701> that<00:33:05.105> tell<00:33:05.283> me<00:33:05.428> about<00:33:05.590> your<00:33:05.735> education<00:33:06.156> and<00:33:06.317> people<00:33:06.527> will<00:33:06.641> tell<00:33:06.818> you<00:33:06.964> where<00:33:07.125> they<00:33:07.449> go<00:33:07.610> to<00:33:07.675> college<00:33:08.014> is<00:33:08.111> an<00:33:08.241> absurdity.

00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:23.902
The<00:33:09.228> fact<00:33:09.454> that<00:33:09.599> you<00:33:09.631> just<00:33:09.889> said<00:33:12.274> the<00:33:12.742> presidential<00:33:13.387> nominees<00:33:14.128> pick,<00:33:16.092> no<00:33:16.254> one<00:33:16.480> is<00:33:16.577> conditioned<00:33:17.222> to<00:33:17.448> hear<00:33:17.625> it<00:33:17.771> anymore,<00:33:19.223> but<00:33:19.626> that<00:33:19.965> is<00:33:20.142> a<00:33:20.207> corruption<00:33:21.401> of<00:33:23.176> our<00:33:23.499> government.

00:33:24.063 --> 00:33:24.854
It<00:33:24.144> is<00:33:24.257> a<00:33:24.322> corruption.

00:33:25.193 --> 00:33:26.830
We<00:33:25.354> have<00:33:25.500> a<00:33:25.597> constitutional<00:33:26.522> right.

00:33:26.992 --> 00:33:32.794
The<00:33:27.090> 12th<00:33:27.479> Amendment<00:33:28.112> gives<00:33:28.453> us<00:33:28.615> the<00:33:28.761> right<00:33:28.939> to<00:33:28.972> directly<00:33:29.150> elect<00:33:29.443> our<00:33:29.475> president<00:33:31.736> and<00:33:31.896> our<00:33:31.992> vice<00:33:32.233> president.

00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:47.034
And<00:33:33.900> we<00:33:33.997> would<00:33:34.237> think<00:33:34.462> it<00:33:34.798> crazy<00:33:35.744> if<00:33:35.937> it<00:33:36.466> was<00:33:36.947> like,<00:33:37.428> okay,<00:33:37.685> we<00:33:37.829> elect<00:33:38.150> our<00:33:38.246> senators<00:33:38.968> and<00:33:39.048> then<00:33:39.208> we<00:33:39.304> just<00:33:39.593> let<00:33:39.769> them<00:33:40.010> pick<00:33:41.453> which<00:33:41.838> congresspeople<00:33:42.736> they<00:33:42.961> want<00:33:43.843> and<00:33:44.420> we<00:33:44.644> jam<00:33:45.061> it<00:33:45.206> all<00:33:45.366> together<00:33:46.248> on<00:33:46.424> the<00:33:46.585> ballot.

00:33:47.771 --> 00:33:57.665
And<00:33:48.172> yeah,<00:33:48.413> you<00:33:48.509> still<00:33:48.685> get<00:33:48.830> to<00:33:49.054> vote<00:33:49.327> for<00:33:49.551> what<00:33:49.728> senator<00:33:50.337> you<00:33:50.497> want,<00:33:50.834> but<00:33:50.978> we're<00:33:51.219> essentially<00:33:51.700> giving<00:33:52.037> then<00:33:52.197> the<00:33:52.277> senator<00:33:52.919> the<00:33:53.079> right<00:33:53.464> to<00:33:53.560> just<00:33:55.164> line<00:33:55.484> item<00:33:55.885> in<00:33:56.366> the<00:33:56.447> congresspeople<00:33:57.264> they<00:33:57.473> want.

00:33:57.729 --> 00:33:58.579
And<00:33:57.874> that's<00:33:58.050> what<00:33:58.194> we've<00:33:58.371> done.

00:33:59.093 --> 00:34:12.392
Truly,<00:33:59.575> the<00:34:00.041> office<00:34:00.378> of<00:34:00.523> president<00:34:01.021> and<00:34:01.165> vice<00:34:01.422> president<00:34:03.173> are<00:34:03.430> as<00:34:03.590> separate<00:34:04.217> and<00:34:04.393> distinct<00:34:05.662> as<00:34:06.080> governor<00:34:06.787> and<00:34:06.899> senator<00:34:07.991> or<00:34:08.409> president<00:34:09.196> and<00:34:09.935> city<00:34:10.240> council<00:34:10.657> member<00:34:11.525> of<00:34:11.621> your<00:34:11.782> local<00:34:12.039> city.

00:34:12.569 --> 00:34:19.250
The<00:34:13.051> offices<00:34:14.111> are<00:34:14.207> separate<00:34:15.058> and<00:34:15.556> distinct,<00:34:16.375> and<00:34:16.504> we<00:34:16.584> have<00:34:16.761> a<00:34:17.323> constitutional<00:34:18.206> right<00:34:18.447> to<00:34:18.528> elect<00:34:18.833> them<00:34:19.009> both.

00:34:19.877 --> 00:34:20.776
Now,<00:34:19.973> why<00:34:20.134> does<00:34:20.278> this<00:34:20.455> matter?

00:34:21.499 --> 00:34:24.679
Because,<00:34:21.724> I<00:34:21.804> mean,<00:34:21.884> we're<00:34:22.045> also<00:34:22.302> conditioned<00:34:22.768> to<00:34:22.864> just<00:34:23.089> not<00:34:23.330> care<00:34:23.651> about<00:34:23.892> our<00:34:23.989> vice<00:34:24.229> presidents.

00:34:25.778 --> 00:34:37.067
But<00:34:27.865> every<00:34:28.431> check<00:34:28.851> and<00:34:29.013> balance,<00:34:29.725> every<00:34:30.064> single<00:34:30.857> check<00:34:31.197> and<00:34:31.278> balance<00:34:31.747> on<00:34:31.844> divided<00:34:32.313> government<00:34:33.122> that<00:34:33.235> was<00:34:33.542> given<00:34:33.850> to<00:34:34.011> us<00:34:34.189> by<00:34:34.270> the<00:34:34.400> Founding<00:34:34.737> Fathers<00:34:35.396> is<00:34:35.556> vested<00:34:36.022> in<00:34:36.119> the<00:34:36.199> vice<00:34:36.504> presidency.

00:34:38.272 --> 00:34:42.402
And<00:34:39.172> we<00:34:39.959> are<00:34:40.200> in<00:34:40.297> a<00:34:40.377> time<00:34:40.698> of<00:34:40.795> extremely<00:34:41.341> divided<00:34:41.839> government.

00:34:43.092 --> 00:34:51.903
And<00:34:43.141> those<00:34:43.350> checks<00:34:43.607> and<00:34:43.800> balances<00:34:44.461> were<00:34:44.558> maybe<00:34:45.026> unimportant<00:34:45.946> in<00:34:46.318> more<00:34:46.560> cooperative<00:34:47.302> eras,<00:34:48.497> but<00:34:48.755> are<00:34:49.158> critical<00:34:50.111> to<00:34:50.514> the<00:34:50.595> survival<00:34:51.112> of<00:34:51.176> our<00:34:51.273> democracy.

00:34:52.048 --> 00:35:09.560
And<00:34:52.290> even<00:34:52.532> January<00:34:52.954> 6th<00:34:53.390> and<00:34:53.477> Mike<00:34:53.826> Pence<00:34:55.082> decision<00:34:56.005> not<00:34:56.621> to<00:34:57.755> endorse<00:34:59.133> Trump's<00:34:59.943> sort<00:35:00.121> of<00:35:00.283> plea<00:35:00.526> to<00:35:00.688> overturn<00:35:01.401> the<00:35:01.499> electors<00:35:02.777> shows<00:35:03.355> exactly—<00:35:03.822> I<00:35:03.838> mean,<00:35:04.464> Mike<00:35:04.802> Pence<00:35:05.284> was<00:35:05.927> the<00:35:06.876> protector<00:35:08.081> of<00:35:08.242> democracy<00:35:08.885> in<00:35:08.965> that<00:35:09.142> moment.

00:35:10.251 --> 00:35:21.996
And<00:35:11.055> the<00:35:11.232> amount<00:35:11.782> of<00:35:15.662> power<00:35:16.164> that<00:35:16.325> the<00:35:16.487> president<00:35:17.198> exerts<00:35:17.845> over<00:35:17.958> the<00:35:18.088> vice<00:35:18.411> president<00:35:19.236> when<00:35:19.559> we<00:35:20.432> run<00:35:20.626> it<00:35:20.740> this<00:35:20.941> way<00:35:21.359> is<00:35:21.527> immense.

00:35:22.603 --> 00:35:30.364
Our<00:35:22.747> vice<00:35:23.004> presidents<00:35:23.501> are<00:35:23.581> supposed<00:35:24.206> to<00:35:24.447> be<00:35:24.623> accountable<00:35:25.249> to<00:35:25.409> we<00:35:25.569> the<00:35:25.730> people,<00:35:26.676> democratically<00:35:27.414> elected,<00:35:28.456> but<00:35:28.681> we've<00:35:29.563> just<00:35:29.819> given<00:35:30.124> it<00:35:30.284> up.

00:35:30.541 --> 00:35:32.433
We've<00:35:30.701> just<00:35:31.487> given<00:35:31.824> that<00:35:32.048> right<00:35:32.241> away.

00:35:32.545 --> 00:35:34.213
It<00:35:32.626> truly<00:35:33.027> is<00:35:33.107> our<00:35:33.251> constitutional<00:35:33.909> right.

00:35:34.791 --> 00:35:35.448
And<00:35:34.871> no<00:35:34.951> one<00:35:35.063> knows<00:35:35.336> this.

00:35:35.528 --> 00:35:37.116
It's<00:35:35.673> a<00:35:35.753> part<00:35:35.897> of<00:35:35.929> our<00:35:36.057> history<00:35:36.314> that's<00:35:36.539> just<00:35:36.699> been<00:35:36.859> lost.

00:35:37.196 --> 00:35:38.174
And<00:35:37.276> so<00:35:37.372> it<00:35:37.421> was<00:35:37.597> very<00:35:37.821> fascinating.

00:35:38.222 --> 00:35:42.200
It<00:35:38.287> was<00:35:38.543> just<00:35:38.720> really<00:35:38.944> an<00:35:39.024> interesting<00:35:39.586> thread<00:35:39.826> to<00:35:39.922> pull<00:35:40.163> at,<00:35:41.029> you<00:35:41.061> know,<00:35:41.510> and<00:35:41.590> across<00:35:41.927> America.

00:35:42.248 --> 00:35:47.812
And<00:35:42.408> we<00:35:42.633> got<00:35:42.873> the<00:35:42.953> signatures<00:35:43.482> required<00:35:43.931> in<00:35:44.028> 7<00:35:44.397> states<00:35:44.797> before<00:35:45.054> I<00:35:45.134> ran<00:35:45.359> out<00:35:45.471> of<00:35:45.519> money<00:35:46.161> and<00:35:46.257> sort<00:35:46.481> of<00:35:46.513> had<00:35:47.203> to<00:35:47.379> turn<00:35:47.604> it<00:35:47.700> in.

00:35:48.504 --> 00:35:56.575
But<00:35:48.827> about<00:35:49.086> 75%<00:35:50.137> of<00:35:50.283> people<00:35:52.790> supported<00:35:53.356> it<00:35:53.761> from<00:35:54.084> red,<00:35:54.634> blue,<00:35:55.200> you<00:35:55.297> know,<00:35:55.524> and<00:35:55.766> independent.

00:35:56.996 --> 00:36:05.579
You<00:35:57.077> know,<00:35:57.222> people<00:35:57.368> don't<00:35:57.546> like—<00:35:57.787> once<00:35:57.963> you,<00:35:58.204> once<00:35:58.429> you<00:35:58.510> realize<00:35:58.847> that<00:35:59.008> you<00:35:59.152> have<00:35:59.409> a<00:35:59.474> right<00:35:59.811> and<00:35:59.891> then<00:36:00.116> someone<00:36:00.454> took<00:36:00.614> it<00:36:00.695> from<00:36:00.936> you,<00:36:01.803> you<00:36:01.836> know,<00:36:01.996> it<00:36:02.044> really<00:36:02.221> doesn't<00:36:03.024> tend<00:36:03.266> to<00:36:03.362> matter<00:36:03.828> your,<00:36:04.294> your<00:36:04.471> politics,<00:36:04.936> left<00:36:05.129> or<00:36:05.194> right.

00:36:05.836 --> 00:36:10.995
Once<00:36:06.077> people<00:36:06.318> know<00:36:06.479> like,<00:36:06.784> oh,<00:36:06.961> I<00:36:07.122> had<00:36:07.431> power<00:36:07.773> and<00:36:07.854> it<00:36:07.936> was<00:36:08.163> taken<00:36:08.489> away<00:36:08.733> from<00:36:08.912> me,<00:36:09.888> like,<00:36:10.132> yeah,<00:36:10.279> I'd<00:36:10.458> want<00:36:10.621> that<00:36:10.783> back.

00:36:11.044 --> 00:36:14.411
I'd<00:36:11.174> want<00:36:11.288> it<00:36:11.353> back<00:36:11.516> just<00:36:11.678> so<00:36:11.760> I<00:36:11.841> can<00:36:11.988> use<00:36:12.232> it,<00:36:12.890> you<00:36:13.020> know,<00:36:13.151> in<00:36:13.233> the<00:36:13.315> way<00:36:13.560> I<00:36:13.724> want<00:36:13.904> to<00:36:14.068> use<00:36:14.379> it.

00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:21.610
Even<00:36:14.706> if<00:36:14.804> they're<00:36:14.968> partisan,<00:36:16.097> it's<00:36:16.195> like,<00:36:16.342> yeah,<00:36:16.522> give<00:36:16.686> it<00:36:16.768> back<00:36:17.013> to<00:36:17.144> me<00:36:17.422> so<00:36:17.569> I<00:36:17.749> can<00:36:17.979> use<00:36:18.093> it,<00:36:18.142> you<00:36:18.175> know,<00:36:19.199> to<00:36:19.377> the<00:36:19.603> ends<00:36:19.943> that<00:36:20.170> I<00:36:20.348> think<00:36:20.672> the<00:36:20.817> country<00:36:21.173> needs.

00:36:22.209 --> 00:36:27.717
But<00:36:22.857> most<00:36:23.100> people,<00:36:23.423> once<00:36:23.650> they<00:36:23.747> learn,<00:36:24.876> oh,<00:36:25.199> have<00:36:25.280> you<00:36:25.361> ever<00:36:25.764> paid<00:36:25.926> attention<00:36:26.361> or<00:36:26.490> read<00:36:26.668> the<00:36:27.136> 12th<00:36:27.330> Amendment?

00:36:27.879 --> 00:36:27.959
No.

00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:33.657
Maybe<00:36:29.880> when<00:36:29.929> I<00:36:29.945> was<00:36:30.138> in<00:36:30.526> 8th<00:36:30.703> grade<00:36:31.026> and<00:36:31.107> my<00:36:31.817> history<00:36:32.318> class<00:36:32.640> assigned<00:36:32.947> it<00:36:33.028> to<00:36:33.125> me<00:36:33.205> or<00:36:33.302> something.

00:36:34.856 --> 00:36:48.135
But<00:36:35.371> yeah,<00:36:35.676> we<00:36:35.756> found<00:36:36.062> broad-based<00:36:36.560> support<00:36:36.961> for<00:36:37.203> it<00:36:37.669> and<00:36:38.568> hope<00:36:38.874> that<00:36:39.051> it's<00:36:40.577> kind<00:36:40.738> of<00:36:40.818> a<00:36:40.963> thread<00:36:41.284> that<00:36:41.445> might<00:36:42.425> be<00:36:42.586> useful<00:36:43.068> in<00:36:43.148> the<00:36:43.229> conversation<00:36:44.431> as<00:36:44.678> things<00:36:44.941> kind<00:36:45.122> of<00:36:45.254> continue<00:36:45.681> to<00:36:45.829> evolve<00:36:47.173> At<00:36:47.254> what<00:36:47.398> point<00:36:47.590> did<00:36:47.718> this<00:36:47.895> change?

00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:55.397
Because<00:36:48.921> if<00:36:49.017> my<00:36:49.113> memory<00:36:49.498> serves,<00:36:50.139> Thomas<00:36:50.395> Jefferson<00:36:50.860> was<00:36:51.021> John<00:36:51.325> Adams'<00:36:52.063> vice<00:36:52.383> president,<00:36:53.024> and<00:36:53.505> John<00:36:53.682> Adams<00:36:53.906> didn't<00:36:54.146> pick<00:36:54.627> Thomas<00:36:54.948> Jefferson.

00:36:55.926 --> 00:36:57.401
In<00:36:55.990> fact,<00:36:56.214> they<00:36:56.311> were<00:36:56.631> different<00:36:56.936> parties.

00:36:57.657 --> 00:37:01.793
And<00:36:57.753> then<00:36:58.058> when<00:36:58.234> Jefferson<00:36:58.715> got<00:36:59.501> elected,<00:37:00.799> um,<00:37:01.023> he<00:37:01.104> had<00:37:01.264> Aaron<00:37:01.601> Burr.

00:37:02.226 --> 00:37:03.829
Was<00:37:02.402> it<00:37:02.546> always<00:37:02.723> like<00:37:02.883> this<00:37:03.284> runner-up?

00:37:03.941 --> 00:37:04.903
Is<00:37:04.085> that<00:37:04.310> how<00:37:04.422> it<00:37:04.550> used<00:37:04.710> to<00:37:04.807> be?

00:37:04.967 --> 00:37:07.147
Or<00:37:05.303> how—<00:37:05.768> at<00:37:05.913> what<00:37:06.009> point<00:37:06.249> did<00:37:06.410> all<00:37:06.554> of<00:37:06.666> this<00:37:06.874> change?

00:37:07.195 --> 00:37:08.189
This<00:37:07.291> is<00:37:07.371> actually<00:37:07.596> really<00:37:07.772> fascinating.

00:37:08.237 --> 00:37:09.680
I<00:37:08.317> have<00:37:08.493> not<00:37:08.734> really<00:37:09.055> thought<00:37:09.215> about<00:37:09.455> this.

00:37:10.962 --> 00:37:11.299
Yeah.

00:37:11.523 --> 00:37:14.393
Um,<00:37:12.004> this<00:37:12.164> is<00:37:12.277> exactly<00:37:12.725> the<00:37:12.806> journey<00:37:13.142> I<00:37:13.222> was<00:37:13.447> on<00:37:13.543> with<00:37:13.703> people<00:37:13.944> for<00:37:14.088> 2<00:37:14.248> years.

00:37:14.489 --> 00:37:21.909
And,<00:37:14.729> and<00:37:14.889> you've<00:37:15.050> got<00:37:15.162> about<00:37:15.322> a<00:37:15.386> 35%<00:37:15.947> better<00:37:16.428> recollection<00:37:16.973> than<00:37:17.150> most,<00:37:17.855> um,<00:37:18.080> being<00:37:18.192> able<00:37:18.432> to<00:37:18.833> get<00:37:19.057> from<00:37:20.018> George<00:37:20.339> Washington<00:37:21.060> to<00:37:21.396> Aaron<00:37:21.701> Burr.

00:37:22.742 --> 00:37:27.421
So<00:37:22.839> yeah,<00:37:22.919> I<00:37:22.999> mean,<00:37:23.079> it<00:37:23.127> was<00:37:23.255> George<00:37:23.480> Washington,<00:37:23.960> John<00:37:24.201> Adams,<00:37:24.505> then<00:37:24.601> John<00:37:24.842> Adams<00:37:25.098> and<00:37:25.242> Thomas<00:37:25.483> Jefferson,<00:37:25.963> then<00:37:26.124> Thomas<00:37:26.428> Jefferson<00:37:26.845> and<00:37:26.989> Aaron<00:37:27.165> Burr.

00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:38.061
And<00:37:28.431> how<00:37:28.591> it<00:37:28.687> initially<00:37:29.248> worked<00:37:29.633> was<00:37:29.953> everyone<00:37:30.354> ran<00:37:30.610> for<00:37:30.770> president,<00:37:31.732> one<00:37:31.956> office,<00:37:33.238> and<00:37:33.895> whoever<00:37:34.200> had<00:37:34.312> the<00:37:34.376> most<00:37:34.616> votes<00:37:34.857> was<00:37:35.017> president<00:37:35.642> and<00:37:35.738> whoever<00:37:36.042> had<00:37:36.219> the<00:37:36.299> second<00:37:36.603> most<00:37:36.860> votes<00:37:37.164> was<00:37:37.356> vice<00:37:37.645> president.

00:37:38.622 --> 00:37:44.679
And<00:37:38.686> the<00:37:38.782> challenge<00:37:39.247> was<00:37:39.680> is<00:37:39.888> that<00:37:40.866> Thomas<00:37:41.186> Jefferson<00:37:41.667> and<00:37:41.811> Aaron<00:37:42.067> Burr,<00:37:42.933> they<00:37:43.109> both<00:37:43.333> ran<00:37:43.510> for<00:37:43.670> president<00:37:44.070> and<00:37:44.166> they<00:37:44.375> tied.

00:37:45.737 --> 00:37:53.573
And<00:37:46.554> to<00:37:46.714> break<00:37:46.939> that<00:37:47.115> tie,<00:37:47.371> it<00:37:47.499> goes<00:37:47.740> to<00:37:47.772> the<00:37:47.900> House<00:37:48.317> and<00:37:48.461> the<00:37:48.557> House<00:37:48.878> voted<00:37:49.342> and<00:37:49.743> it<00:37:49.903> tied<00:37:50.224> again<00:37:50.544> in<00:37:50.624> the<00:37:50.704> House<00:37:51.201> and<00:37:51.281> they<00:37:51.361> voted<00:37:51.682> again<00:37:51.922> and<00:37:52.002> it<00:37:52.146> tied<00:37:52.547> and<00:37:52.643> it<00:37:52.723> tied<00:37:53.108> and<00:37:53.204> it<00:37:53.284> tied.

00:37:54.165 --> 00:37:58.764
And<00:37:54.230> so<00:37:54.630> it<00:37:54.870> went<00:37:55.367> to<00:37:55.592> like<00:37:55.832> 30,<00:37:56.793> it<00:37:56.954> was<00:37:57.434> like<00:37:57.611> 34<00:37:58.011> votes<00:37:58.332> or<00:37:58.396> something.

00:37:58.812 --> 00:38:17.289
And<00:37:58.893> this<00:37:59.069> is<00:37:59.197> featured<00:37:59.549> in<00:37:59.678> Hamilton<00:38:00.030> the<00:38:00.094> play,<00:38:00.335> which<00:38:00.511> is<00:38:00.639> why,<00:38:01.056> you<00:38:01.136> know,<00:38:01.873> now<00:38:02.818> some<00:38:03.139> people<00:38:03.684> have<00:38:03.940> this<00:38:04.100> kind<00:38:04.261> of<00:38:04.341> refresher<00:38:04.966> of<00:38:05.126> this<00:38:05.302> part<00:38:05.462> of<00:38:05.542> history,<00:38:06.664> which<00:38:06.888> is<00:38:07.305> Alexander<00:38:08.347> Hamilton<00:38:09.052> actually<00:38:09.949> backed<00:38:10.574> Thomas<00:38:10.894> Jefferson<00:38:12.212> who<00:38:12.389> was<00:38:12.939> of<00:38:13.036> the<00:38:13.182> opposing<00:38:13.990> political<00:38:14.411> party,<00:38:15.526> you<00:38:15.559> know,<00:38:15.947> Federalist<00:38:16.432> and<00:38:16.513> Democratic-Republican.

00:38:19.618 --> 00:38:25.382
And<00:38:19.699> Thomas<00:38:20.006> Jefferson<00:38:20.425> won,<00:38:21.539> but<00:38:21.701> he<00:38:21.814> now<00:38:22.121> has<00:38:22.524> this<00:38:22.750> very<00:38:22.992> acrimonious<00:38:23.816> vice<00:38:24.139> president<00:38:24.865> in<00:38:25.010> Aaron<00:38:25.269> Burr.

00:38:26.076 --> 00:38:32.167
And<00:38:26.157> Thomas<00:38:26.479> Jefferson's<00:38:27.061> like,<00:38:27.593> you<00:38:27.642> know,<00:38:27.819> shit,<00:38:27.931> that<00:38:28.092> was,<00:38:29.123> that<00:38:29.220> was<00:38:29.381> an<00:38:29.461> acrimonious,<00:38:30.267> like,<00:38:30.589> we<00:38:30.669> can't<00:38:30.911> put<00:38:31.072> the<00:38:31.153> nation<00:38:31.475> through<00:38:31.700> that<00:38:31.861> again.

00:38:32.667 --> 00:38:34.261
We<00:38:32.763> need<00:38:32.924> to<00:38:33.005> separate<00:38:33.488> these<00:38:33.714> offices.

00:38:34.857 --> 00:38:38.311
And<00:38:35.002> that's<00:38:35.196> when<00:38:35.341> we<00:38:35.502> got<00:38:35.727> the<00:38:35.824> 12th<00:38:36.130> Amendment,<00:38:36.629> which<00:38:36.872> separated<00:38:37.689> the<00:38:37.837> offices.

00:38:38.507 --> 00:38:41.465
And<00:38:38.654> so<00:38:38.915> from<00:38:39.160> there,<00:38:39.487> people<00:38:39.798> ran<00:38:40.043> for<00:38:40.223> president<00:38:40.942> and<00:38:41.040> vice<00:38:41.089> president<00:38:41.318> separately.

00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:52.571
You<00:38:43.548> seek,<00:38:45.442> you<00:38:45.523> know,<00:38:45.779> the<00:38:46.004> office<00:38:46.277> of<00:38:46.422> president<00:38:47.048> and<00:38:47.225> win<00:38:47.530> or<00:38:47.690> lose,<00:38:48.670> or<00:38:48.894> you<00:38:49.055> would<00:38:49.248> seek<00:38:49.874> the<00:38:50.099> office<00:38:50.452> of<00:38:50.596> vice<00:38:50.917> president<00:38:51.624> and<00:38:51.800> win<00:38:52.122> or<00:38:52.282> lose.

00:38:53.085 --> 00:38:53.856
And<00:38:53.246> people<00:38:53.647> ran.

00:38:54.193 --> 00:38:56.312
And<00:38:54.289> then<00:38:54.450> this<00:38:54.626> is<00:38:54.755> the<00:38:54.851> part<00:38:55.028> of<00:38:55.092> history<00:38:55.413> that<00:38:55.509> people<00:38:55.815> just<00:38:55.975> don't<00:38:56.168> know.

00:38:56.537 --> 00:39:13.155
People<00:38:56.858> ran<00:38:57.163> for<00:38:57.260> vice<00:38:57.565> president<00:38:58.287> separately<00:38:58.849> and<00:38:58.929> distinctly,<00:39:00.053> and<00:39:00.230> we<00:39:00.310> voted<00:39:00.776> separately<00:39:01.274> and<00:39:01.354> distinctly<00:39:02.076> for<00:39:02.237> president<00:39:02.558> and<00:39:02.719> vice<00:39:02.943> president<00:39:04.067> for<00:39:04.726> about<00:39:05.031> 60,<00:39:05.320> 70<00:39:05.689> years<00:39:06.331> before<00:39:07.455> the<00:39:08.242> party<00:39:08.740> ticket<00:39:10.040> started<00:39:10.570> to<00:39:10.971> influence<00:39:12.432> the<00:39:12.593> ballots.

00:39:13.957 --> 00:39:20.460
And<00:39:14.038> so<00:39:14.198> for<00:39:14.359> about<00:39:14.584> 100<00:39:15.306> years<00:39:15.739> or<00:39:15.868> about<00:39:16.205> maybe<00:39:16.847> depends<00:39:17.168> on<00:39:17.249> what<00:39:17.393> state<00:39:17.634> we're<00:39:17.730> talking<00:39:18.019> about,<00:39:18.212> because<00:39:18.533> every<00:39:18.838> ballot<00:39:19.095> is<00:39:19.882> owned<00:39:19.978> by<00:39:20.058> the<00:39:20.138> state.

00:39:21.086 --> 00:39:23.847
It<00:39:21.118> was<00:39:21.343> the<00:39:21.567> party<00:39:22.450> who<00:39:22.531> was<00:39:22.707> picking<00:39:23.028> the<00:39:23.092> vice<00:39:23.333> presidents.

00:39:24.313 --> 00:39:28.439
And<00:39:24.377> that<00:39:24.457> actually<00:39:24.955> is<00:39:25.051> when<00:39:25.196> we<00:39:25.276> had<00:39:25.436> the<00:39:25.517> very<00:39:25.838> worst<00:39:26.143> vice<00:39:26.400> presidents<00:39:26.946> because<00:39:27.202> it<00:39:27.283> was<00:39:27.588> usually<00:39:28.005> graft.

00:39:28.487 --> 00:39:37.333
It<00:39:28.551> was<00:39:28.712> usually<00:39:29.049> like<00:39:29.225> whoever<00:39:29.514> had<00:39:29.627> the<00:39:29.707> most<00:39:29.932> political<00:39:30.895> sort<00:39:31.120> of<00:39:31.521> favors<00:39:32.115> or<00:39:32.179> was<00:39:32.340> willing<00:39:32.581> to<00:39:32.661> pay,<00:39:33.287> you<00:39:33.383> know,<00:39:33.480> the<00:39:33.544> most<00:39:33.785> amount<00:39:33.961> of<00:39:34.010> money<00:39:34.266> into<00:39:34.507> the<00:39:34.588> party<00:39:35.390> would<00:39:35.535> just<00:39:35.760> get<00:39:36.418> sort<00:39:36.530> of<00:39:36.594> picked<00:39:36.835> by<00:39:36.915> the<00:39:37.060> party.

00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:44.171
And<00:39:38.264> then<00:39:38.424> it<00:39:38.456> wasn't<00:39:38.745> until<00:39:39.002> JFK<00:39:40.110> that<00:39:40.270> the<00:39:40.350> nominees<00:39:41.265> started<00:39:41.956> picking<00:39:42.758> their<00:39:43.641> running<00:39:43.898> mates.

00:39:45.262 --> 00:39:51.732
But<00:39:45.744> everyone<00:39:46.049> has<00:39:46.210> to<00:39:46.290> appreciate<00:39:47.189> that<00:39:48.152> neither<00:39:48.537> of<00:39:48.633> those<00:39:48.858> approaches<00:39:50.142> are<00:39:50.463> what<00:39:50.544> our<00:39:50.640> Constitution<00:39:51.298> says.

00:39:52.711 --> 00:39:55.135
And<00:39:53.594> you<00:39:53.690> can't<00:39:53.931> just<00:39:54.091> ignore<00:39:54.348> the<00:39:54.477> Constitution.

00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:04.236
And<00:39:55.279> so<00:39:55.680> what<00:39:55.857> people<00:39:56.162> also<00:39:56.403> don't<00:39:56.563> appreciate<00:39:57.205> is<00:39:57.302> that<00:39:58.088> the<00:39:58.185> Electoral<00:39:58.730> College<00:39:59.389> still<00:39:59.854> votes<00:40:00.127> separately<00:40:00.817> for<00:40:00.994> president<00:40:01.395> and<00:40:01.475> vice<00:40:01.796> president<00:40:02.166> because<00:40:02.503> you<00:40:02.535> can't<00:40:02.824> just<00:40:03.081> ignore<00:40:03.498> the<00:40:03.626> Constitution.

00:40:04.766 --> 00:40:06.339
So<00:40:05.167> the<00:40:05.264> system's<00:40:05.713> already<00:40:05.970> built<00:40:06.131> this<00:40:06.291> way.

00:40:06.852 --> 00:40:08.391
The<00:40:06.949> system<00:40:07.269> already<00:40:07.638> works<00:40:07.958> this<00:40:08.135> way.

00:40:09.081 --> 00:40:13.649
The<00:40:09.257> one<00:40:09.562> thing<00:40:09.818> you<00:40:09.962> have<00:40:10.123> to<00:40:10.219> change<00:40:10.940> to<00:40:11.405> restore<00:40:12.126> it<00:40:12.864> is<00:40:13.104> our<00:40:13.329> ballot.

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It's<00:40:15.092> the<00:40:15.349> ballots.

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The<00:40:15.990> ballot<00:40:16.310> is<00:40:16.407> the<00:40:16.615> only<00:40:16.855> thing<00:40:17.096> that's<00:40:17.272> kind<00:40:17.417> of<00:40:17.449> been<00:40:17.673> corrupted<00:40:18.795> is<00:40:18.875> when<00:40:19.100> you<00:40:19.276> go<00:40:19.517> to<00:40:19.757> vote,<00:40:20.382> you<00:40:20.559> don't<00:40:20.959> get<00:40:21.184> to<00:40:21.360> vote<00:40:21.601> for<00:40:21.761> vice<00:40:22.001> president<00:40:22.707> anymore.

00:40:23.749 --> 00:40:35.316
That<00:40:24.406> democratic<00:40:24.951> right<00:40:25.191> has<00:40:25.368> been<00:40:25.528> stolen<00:40:26.233> from<00:40:26.490> you<00:40:26.634> essentially<00:40:27.051> by<00:40:27.211> the<00:40:27.291> party<00:40:27.692> and<00:40:27.772> by<00:40:27.933> the<00:40:28.077> nominee<00:40:28.975> who<00:40:29.119> has<00:40:29.375> taken<00:40:29.696> that<00:40:30.578> power<00:40:31.283> and<00:40:31.395> said,<00:40:32.004> I<00:40:32.037> know<00:40:32.341> best<00:40:33.250> I<00:40:33.348> will<00:40:33.496> choose,<00:40:34.398> you<00:40:34.496> know,<00:40:34.595> the<00:40:34.677> vice<00:40:34.906> president.

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It's<00:40:37.507> interesting<00:40:38.055> that<00:40:38.152> it<00:40:38.216> was<00:40:38.393> JFK<00:40:39.908> who<00:40:40.391> was<00:40:40.633> the<00:40:40.729> first,<00:40:41.680> um,<00:40:42.099> to<00:40:42.244> just<00:40:42.502> pick,<00:40:43.549> and<00:40:43.630> 2<00:40:43.758> years<00:40:44.016> later<00:40:44.161> he<00:40:44.338> gets<00:40:44.516> assassinated,<00:40:45.160> and<00:40:45.370> that<00:40:45.562> guy,<00:40:46.189> uh,<00:40:47.313> you<00:40:47.394> know,<00:40:47.747> ascends<00:40:48.133> to<00:40:48.229> the<00:40:48.358> presidency,<00:40:49.081> which<00:40:49.193> is<00:40:49.338> its<00:40:49.563> own<00:40:49.964> kind<00:40:50.382> of<00:40:51.169> crazy<00:40:51.571> history.

00:40:51.908 --> 00:40:55.901
But<00:40:52.535> yeah,<00:40:52.711> then<00:40:53.113> we<00:40:53.258> lionize<00:40:53.820> LBJ,<00:40:54.238> but,<00:40:54.704> um,<00:40:55.057> I'm<00:40:55.170> not<00:40:55.283> sure<00:40:55.462> that<00:40:55.592> we<00:40:55.673> should.

00:40:56.486 --> 00:41:01.512
Uh,<00:40:57.462> what<00:40:57.527> does<00:40:57.705> a<00:40:57.787> typical<00:40:58.209> day<00:40:58.453> look<00:40:58.616> like<00:40:58.843> for<00:41:01.207> Yeah.

00:41:01.592 --> 00:41:07.671
So<00:41:01.993> after<00:41:02.249> doing<00:41:02.426> the<00:41:02.570> politics,<00:41:03.116> I<00:41:03.132> started<00:41:03.388> a<00:41:03.452> venture<00:41:03.773> studio,<00:41:05.217> launched<00:41:05.602> two<00:41:05.938> more<00:41:06.243> operating<00:41:07.222> businesses.

00:41:07.783 --> 00:41:10.060
Both<00:41:08.007> ended<00:41:08.248> up<00:41:08.344> taking<00:41:08.665> venture<00:41:09.627> capital.

00:41:10.253 --> 00:41:12.611
And<00:41:10.574> so<00:41:10.814> one<00:41:10.975> is<00:41:11.696> called<00:41:11.873> LearnIn.com.

00:41:12.675 --> 00:41:13.958
The<00:41:12.771> other<00:41:12.915> is<00:41:13.076> BookClub.com.

00:41:14.680 --> 00:41:20.069
Degreed<00:41:15.401> in<00:41:15.562> 2022<00:41:17.310> acquired<00:41:17.871> LearnIn<00:41:18.433> and<00:41:18.529> brought<00:41:18.754> me<00:41:18.850> back<00:41:19.107> as<00:41:19.187> CEO<00:41:19.572> of<00:41:19.668> Degreed.

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And<00:41:20.374> so<00:41:21.560> I<00:41:21.577> was<00:41:21.753> CEO<00:41:22.202> of<00:41:22.362> BookClub<00:41:22.763> and<00:41:22.860> Degreed<00:41:23.277> in<00:41:23.341> parallel<00:41:23.822> for<00:41:24.383> a<00:41:24.720> moment,<00:41:25.747> transitioned<00:41:27.094> out<00:41:27.254> of<00:41:27.351> being<00:41:27.992> CEO<00:41:28.457> of<00:41:28.618> BookClub.com<00:41:30.558> to<00:41:30.702> a<00:41:30.718> great<00:41:30.959> guy,<00:41:31.199> Jonathan<00:41:31.600> Monk,<00:41:31.825> who's<00:41:32.065> now<00:41:32.707> leading<00:41:32.963> and<00:41:33.108> running<00:41:33.348> that<00:41:33.525> business.

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And<00:41:34.230> I<00:41:34.391> am<00:41:34.487> back<00:41:34.792> full-time<00:41:35.449> as<00:41:35.609> CEO<00:41:36.235> of<00:41:36.652> Degreed,<00:41:37.774> and<00:41:37.854> it's<00:41:38.095> now<00:41:38.255> a<00:41:38.400> global<00:41:39.041> business<00:41:39.458> serving,<00:41:40.517> you<00:41:40.821> know,<00:41:40.966> we're<00:41:41.222> serving<00:41:41.527> about<00:41:41.703> 30%<00:41:42.810> of<00:41:42.922> the<00:41:43.050> Fortune<00:41:43.451> 100<00:41:44.654> globally,<00:41:45.231> top<00:41:45.472> to<00:41:45.552> bottom,<00:41:45.937> enterprise-wide.

00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:51.870
And,<00:41:47.621> you<00:41:47.653> know,<00:41:47.797> a<00:41:47.877> typical<00:41:48.342> day<00:41:48.679> is<00:41:48.936> right<00:41:49.882> now<00:41:50.106> 3<00:41:50.283> days<00:41:50.523> in<00:41:50.603> the<00:41:50.748> office,<00:41:51.084> 2<00:41:51.245> days<00:41:51.485> at<00:41:51.566> home.

00:41:51.983 --> 00:41:57.932
So,<00:41:52.592> you<00:41:52.672> know,<00:41:53.073> we're<00:41:53.314> in<00:41:53.410> that<00:41:53.891> kind<00:41:54.115> of<00:41:54.532> post-COVID<00:41:55.879> hybrid<00:41:57.002> kind<00:41:57.178> of<00:41:57.211> situation.

00:41:58.542 --> 00:42:00.226
I<00:41:58.622> travel<00:41:59.007> a<00:41:59.023> lot,<00:41:59.424> travel<00:41:59.809> globally.

00:42:00.306 --> 00:42:01.829
A<00:42:00.322> lot<00:42:00.626> of<00:42:00.707> it<00:42:00.803> is<00:42:00.867> spent<00:42:01.092> with<00:42:01.268> clients.

00:42:02.471 --> 00:42:05.438
And<00:42:02.551> then<00:42:02.695> the<00:42:02.775> work<00:42:03.016> I<00:42:03.032> really<00:42:03.273> love<00:42:03.898> is<00:42:03.994> really<00:42:04.235> the<00:42:04.315> product,<00:42:05.277> you<00:42:05.357> know.

00:42:05.502 --> 00:42:12.334
And<00:42:05.582> so<00:42:05.678> as<00:42:05.823> much<00:42:06.015> time<00:42:06.240> as<00:42:06.336> I<00:42:06.400> can,<00:42:07.186> you<00:42:08.164> know,<00:42:08.629> is<00:42:08.870> on<00:42:08.966> podcasts<00:42:09.992> and<00:42:10.650> working,<00:42:11.355> working<00:42:11.676> on<00:42:11.756> the<00:42:11.853> product.

00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.605
How,<00:42:14.402> how<00:42:14.499> do<00:42:14.563> you<00:42:14.659> find<00:42:14.900> time<00:42:15.076> to<00:42:15.204> write<00:42:15.301> a<00:42:15.381> book?

00:42:15.653 --> 00:42:21.010
Because<00:42:15.862> in<00:42:16.006> this,<00:42:16.728> in<00:42:16.808> all<00:42:16.984> of<00:42:17.129> this,<00:42:17.369> you've<00:42:17.530> written<00:42:17.722> The<00:42:17.866> Expertise<00:42:18.444> Economy,<00:42:20.352> which<00:42:20.529> is<00:42:20.609> a<00:42:20.657> great<00:42:20.833> book.

00:42:21.074 --> 00:42:22.213
I<00:42:21.138> highly<00:42:21.379> recommend<00:42:21.780> people<00:42:22.020> do<00:42:22.116> it.

00:42:22.261 --> 00:42:24.249
We'll<00:42:22.357> put<00:42:22.597> links<00:42:22.918> and<00:42:23.063> stuff<00:42:23.640> into<00:42:23.816> the<00:42:23.945> show<00:42:24.137> notes.

00:42:25.486 --> 00:42:29.997
What<00:42:25.630> was<00:42:25.726> your—<00:42:26.369> what<00:42:26.931> drove<00:42:27.252> you<00:42:27.557> to<00:42:27.589> write<00:42:27.798> the<00:42:27.894> book,<00:42:28.360> and<00:42:28.922> what<00:42:29.082> was<00:42:29.195> that<00:42:29.339> process<00:42:29.821> like?

00:42:30.062 --> 00:42:32.984
How<00:42:30.287> long<00:42:30.463> did<00:42:30.624> it<00:42:30.768> take<00:42:31.009> you,<00:42:31.410> given<00:42:31.667> everything<00:42:31.989> else<00:42:32.213> you're<00:42:32.631> working<00:42:32.872> on?

00:42:34.461 --> 00:42:41.526
Yeah,<00:42:34.943> um,<00:42:35.601> so<00:42:35.665> I<00:42:35.762> co-wrote<00:42:36.147> that<00:42:36.404> with,<00:42:37.111> um,<00:42:37.592> who<00:42:37.689> was<00:42:37.913> previously<00:42:38.411> the<00:42:38.507> Chief<00:42:38.877> Learning<00:42:39.198> Officer<00:42:39.551> of<00:42:39.712> LinkedIn,<00:42:40.418> a<00:42:40.499> woman<00:42:40.755> named<00:42:40.964> Kelly<00:42:41.205> Palmer.

00:42:41.622 --> 00:42:47.210
She<00:42:41.783> is<00:42:41.944> now<00:42:42.104> the<00:42:42.249> Head<00:42:42.361> of<00:42:42.409> Strategy<00:42:42.987> at<00:42:43.132> a<00:42:43.389> university,<00:42:44.015> a<00:42:44.095> very<00:42:44.272> innovative<00:42:44.737> university<00:42:45.155> called<00:42:45.460> SNHU,<00:42:45.974> Southern<00:42:46.311> New<00:42:46.359> Hampshire<00:42:46.680> University.

00:42:48.109 --> 00:42:53.482
Um,<00:42:49.394> and<00:42:50.773> It's<00:42:51.559> really<00:42:51.751> about<00:42:52.136> wrestling<00:42:52.600> this<00:42:52.777> story<00:42:53.097> back.

00:42:53.963 --> 00:43:01.063
I<00:42:54.059> think<00:42:54.379> that's<00:42:54.620> been<00:42:55.646> one<00:42:55.742> of<00:42:55.822> the<00:42:55.902> themes<00:42:56.239> of<00:42:56.319> my<00:42:56.527> career<00:42:56.944> is<00:42:57.425> taking,<00:42:58.066> people<00:42:58.371> think<00:42:58.627> this<00:42:58.867> way,<00:42:59.252> it's<00:42:59.412> no<00:42:59.509> longer<00:42:59.829> serving<00:43:00.214> us<00:43:00.390> especially<00:43:00.871> well.

00:43:01.656 --> 00:43:04.782
How<00:43:01.753> do<00:43:03.275> you<00:43:03.419> wrestle<00:43:03.900> the<00:43:04.013> narrative<00:43:04.557> back?

00:43:05.102 --> 00:43:17.172
And<00:43:06.401> spilling<00:43:06.817> the<00:43:07.026> ink<00:43:07.218> in<00:43:07.298> a<00:43:07.427> book<00:43:07.699> was<00:43:07.907> one<00:43:08.084> way<00:43:08.228> of<00:43:08.324> doing<00:43:08.565> that<00:43:08.789> as<00:43:08.949> a<00:43:08.965> way<00:43:09.142> of<00:43:09.270> just<00:43:09.446> advocating<00:43:10.071> for<00:43:10.199> this<00:43:10.392> more<00:43:10.568> skills-based<00:43:11.370> future,<00:43:12.716> one<00:43:12.876> where<00:43:13.052> people<00:43:13.293> should<00:43:13.517> be<00:43:13.630> able<00:43:13.774> to<00:43:13.854> walk<00:43:14.158> any<00:43:14.335> pathway<00:43:16.178> and<00:43:16.258> get<00:43:16.418> credit<00:43:16.899> for<00:43:17.124> it.

00:43:17.300 --> 00:43:23.042
It<00:43:17.621> shouldn't<00:43:17.861> matter<00:43:18.663> where<00:43:19.048> you<00:43:19.144> went<00:43:19.304> to<00:43:19.545> university<00:43:20.331> if<00:43:20.491> you<00:43:20.652> have<00:43:20.908> the<00:43:20.989> skills<00:43:21.534> and,<00:43:21.775> and<00:43:21.935> can<00:43:22.031> demonstrate<00:43:22.529> the<00:43:22.609> knowledge.

00:43:23.780 --> 00:43:26.138
And<00:43:23.956> so<00:43:24.197> it's<00:43:24.357> one<00:43:24.518> more<00:43:24.678> way<00:43:24.919> of<00:43:25.480> telling<00:43:25.705> that<00:43:25.817> story.

00:43:27.629 --> 00:43:32.137
Uh,<00:43:27.966> we<00:43:28.063> only<00:43:28.207> have<00:43:28.367> a<00:43:28.592> couple<00:43:28.832> more<00:43:28.961> minutes<00:43:29.169> here,<00:43:29.394> and<00:43:29.474> I<00:43:29.490> want<00:43:29.634> to<00:43:29.731> be<00:43:29.971> respectful<00:43:30.436> of<00:43:30.469> your<00:43:30.597> time,<00:43:30.838> so<00:43:30.934> I<00:43:30.950> have<00:43:31.239> two<00:43:31.335> more<00:43:31.495> questions<00:43:31.896> for<00:43:31.992> you.

00:43:32.361 --> 00:43:47.402
One<00:43:32.762> is,<00:43:34.046> you<00:43:34.126> mentioned<00:43:34.398> you<00:43:34.527> work<00:43:34.687> from<00:43:34.848> home<00:43:35.505> two<00:43:35.602> days<00:43:35.826> a<00:43:35.890> week,<00:43:36.211> in<00:43:36.291> the<00:43:36.388> office<00:43:37.190> three<00:43:37.334> days<00:43:37.526> a<00:43:37.591> week,<00:43:37.831> which,<00:43:38.633> which<00:43:38.810> to<00:43:38.938> me<00:43:39.275> means<00:43:39.515> you've<00:43:39.916> chosen<00:43:40.301> the<00:43:40.462> hybrid,<00:43:41.665> um,<00:43:42.226> approach<00:43:42.868> in<00:43:43.221> the<00:43:43.365> debate<00:43:43.766> between<00:43:44.151> work<00:43:44.328> from<00:43:44.488> home,<00:43:45.354> all<00:43:45.450> virtual,<00:43:46.348> were<00:43:46.575> all<00:43:46.688> in<00:43:46.834> the<00:43:46.980> office.

00:43:47.954 --> 00:43:49.835
What<00:43:48.684> about<00:43:49.268> that?

00:43:50.144 --> 00:43:50.955
How<00:43:50.241> did<00:43:50.387> you<00:43:50.419> come<00:43:50.565> to<00:43:50.630> that<00:43:50.792> decision?

00:43:53.140 --> 00:43:57.215
Yeah,<00:43:53.253> Degreed<00:43:53.576> was<00:43:53.738> co-located<00:43:54.466> and<00:43:54.611> hybrid<00:43:55.016> from<00:43:55.193> the<00:43:55.274> beginning<00:43:55.776> and<00:43:56.164> kind<00:43:56.406> of<00:43:56.471> before<00:43:56.730> it<00:43:56.794> was<00:43:56.972> cool.

00:43:57.296 --> 00:44:04.649
I<00:43:57.377> remember<00:43:57.781> pitching<00:43:58.104> VCs<00:43:58.428> in<00:43:58.509> the<00:43:58.670> early<00:43:58.994> days<00:43:59.317> and,<00:43:59.964> you<00:44:00.061> know,<00:44:00.142> when<00:44:00.288> they<00:44:00.676> hear<00:44:00.854> that<00:44:01.032> we<00:44:01.161> had<00:44:01.242> our<00:44:01.339> engineering<00:44:01.889> office<00:44:02.212> in<00:44:02.293> Salt<00:44:02.422> Lake<00:44:02.520> City,<00:44:03.020> it<00:44:03.100> was<00:44:03.342> not<00:44:03.746> met<00:44:04.165> favorably.

00:44:04.875 --> 00:44:08.166
They<00:44:04.956> were<00:44:05.052> like,<00:44:06.327> you<00:44:06.504> know,<00:44:07.214> you're<00:44:07.376> in<00:44:07.472> Silicon<00:44:07.860> Valley.

00:44:08.344 --> 00:44:09.699
These<00:44:08.521> are<00:44:08.602> the<00:44:08.682> best<00:44:08.924> engineers<00:44:09.328> in<00:44:09.408> the<00:44:09.473> world.

00:44:09.828 --> 00:44:12.674
Like,<00:44:10.296> what<00:44:10.441> are<00:44:10.522> you<00:44:10.618> doing<00:44:11.006> hiring<00:44:11.344> people<00:44:11.667> in<00:44:11.925> Salt<00:44:12.119> Lake<00:44:12.200> City,<00:44:12.379> Utah?

00:44:13.361 --> 00:44:22.722
You<00:44:13.475> know,<00:44:13.622> and<00:44:13.704> then<00:44:13.868> by<00:44:14.015> about<00:44:14.146> like<00:44:14.277> 2015,<00:44:14.767> 2016,<00:44:15.078> when<00:44:15.144> I<00:44:15.160> was<00:44:15.225> raising<00:44:15.323> like<00:44:15.438> the<00:44:15.487> Series<00:44:15.618> B<00:44:15.651> and<00:44:15.700> the<00:44:15.732> Series<00:44:15.814> C,<00:44:17.816> and<00:44:17.912> people<00:44:18.120> would<00:44:18.313> hear<00:44:18.473> that<00:44:18.633> I<00:44:18.713> had<00:44:18.874> engineering<00:44:19.435> in<00:44:19.499> Utah,<00:44:19.820> they'd<00:44:19.916> be<00:44:19.948> like,<00:44:20.221> oh<00:44:20.253> my<00:44:20.397> gosh,<00:44:21.279> brilliant,<00:44:22.081> great<00:44:22.337> move.

00:44:22.802 --> 00:44:25.416
You<00:44:22.883> know,<00:44:22.979> so<00:44:23.107> like<00:44:23.764> the<00:44:23.845> tides<00:44:24.326> shifted<00:44:24.710> over<00:44:24.951> time.

00:44:25.993 --> 00:44:28.831
Certainly<00:44:26.250> the<00:44:26.410> culture<00:44:26.875> of<00:44:27.212> remote<00:44:27.597> versus<00:44:27.933> in-office<00:44:28.398> has<00:44:28.495> shifted.

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.162
COVID<00:44:29.168> has<00:44:29.248> certainly<00:44:29.601> informed<00:44:30.018> it.

00:44:31.541 --> 00:44:35.839
So<00:44:31.846> have<00:44:32.086> always<00:44:32.263> kind<00:44:32.407> of<00:44:32.439> had<00:44:32.600> this<00:44:32.744> muscle,<00:44:33.145> have<00:44:33.369> always<00:44:33.610> appreciated<00:44:34.107> a<00:44:34.187> bit<00:44:34.347> of<00:44:34.989> the<00:44:35.149> flexibility.

00:44:37.298 --> 00:44:42.028
But,<00:44:37.458> you<00:44:37.490> know,<00:44:37.635> it's<00:44:37.859> a,<00:44:38.260> it's<00:44:38.420> a<00:44:38.500> weird<00:44:39.142> and<00:44:39.238> strange<00:44:40.040> thing<00:44:40.441> to<00:44:40.761> leave<00:44:40.986> a<00:44:41.018> company<00:44:41.403> and<00:44:41.547> come<00:44:41.723> back.

00:44:42.349 --> 00:44:46.758
And<00:44:43.247> it's<00:44:43.407> one<00:44:43.632> thing<00:44:43.872> to<00:44:44.048> kind<00:44:44.273> of<00:44:44.690> build<00:44:44.946> a<00:44:45.075> culture<00:44:45.908> from<00:44:46.133> the<00:44:46.213> ground<00:44:46.678> up.

00:44:46.854 --> 00:45:06.507
It's<00:44:46.998> kind<00:44:47.159> of,<00:44:47.559> you<00:44:47.640> know,<00:44:47.752> like<00:44:49.082> biologically<00:44:49.724> having<00:44:49.964> a<00:44:49.980> kid,<00:44:50.301> you<00:44:50.381> know,<00:44:50.525> you<00:44:50.621> get<00:44:50.717> them<00:44:50.846> on<00:44:50.942> day<00:44:51.118> zero<00:44:51.583> and<00:44:51.904> you<00:44:51.984> get<00:44:52.128> to<00:44:52.208> learn<00:44:52.545> kind<00:44:52.705> of<00:44:52.801> a<00:44:52.849> little<00:44:53.026> bit<00:44:53.186> at<00:44:53.266> a<00:44:53.346> time<00:44:53.747> versus,<00:44:54.709> you<00:44:54.789> know,<00:44:54.885> maybe<00:44:55.174> adopting<00:44:55.735> or<00:44:56.152> marrying<00:44:56.616> into,<00:44:57.498> you<00:44:57.530> know,<00:44:59.197> teenage<00:45:00.335> stepchildren,<00:45:01.682> you<00:45:01.778> know,<00:45:01.922> like<00:45:02.067> coming<00:45:02.307> back,<00:45:02.580> it's<00:45:02.740> now<00:45:02.964> like,<00:45:03.429> it's<00:45:03.926> like<00:45:04.151> those<00:45:04.263> stepchildren,<00:45:04.968> you<00:45:05.209> know,<00:45:05.513> they're<00:45:05.946> a<00:45:06.074> teenager.

00:45:06.571 --> 00:45:11.717
It<00:45:06.715> has,<00:45:07.116> you<00:45:07.196> know,<00:45:07.357> a<00:45:07.373> mind<00:45:07.629> of<00:45:07.709> its<00:45:07.918> own<00:45:08.880> and<00:45:08.976> affecting<00:45:09.761> kind<00:45:09.938> of<00:45:10.034> the<00:45:10.178> ways<00:45:10.515> in<00:45:10.643> which<00:45:10.739> you<00:45:10.883> want<00:45:11.044> to<00:45:11.204> operate.

00:45:12.118 --> 00:45:15.917
I've<00:45:12.246> just<00:45:12.342> found<00:45:12.647> actually,<00:45:13.288> you<00:45:13.320> know,<00:45:13.528> takes<00:45:13.881> more<00:45:14.570> effort<00:45:14.907> and<00:45:15.051> intentionality.

00:45:16.510 --> 00:45:34.377
And<00:45:16.654> so<00:45:16.911> kind<00:45:17.071> of,<00:45:17.360> you<00:45:17.408> know,<00:45:17.554> gathering<00:45:18.041> people<00:45:18.609> is<00:45:18.771> one<00:45:18.917> of<00:45:18.950> the<00:45:19.096> ways<00:45:19.485> I<00:45:19.566> think<00:45:19.745> it's<00:45:19.842> important<00:45:20.800> to<00:45:20.946> kind<00:45:21.124> of,<00:45:21.530> you<00:45:21.611> know,<00:45:21.709> share<00:45:22.033> that<00:45:22.163> and<00:45:22.341> imbue<00:45:22.731> that<00:45:23.072> in<00:45:23.153> an<00:45:23.234> organization,<00:45:25.949> but<00:45:26.594> still<00:45:26.966> value,<00:45:28.015> you<00:45:28.209> know,<00:45:28.613> some<00:45:28.774> autonomy<00:45:29.226> and<00:45:29.307> flexibility<00:45:30.033> and<00:45:30.130> empowering<00:45:30.615> people<00:45:30.938> and<00:45:31.325> what's<00:45:31.503> going<00:45:31.583> to<00:45:31.648> serve,<00:45:32.375> you<00:45:32.407> know,<00:45:32.633> them<00:45:33.585> in<00:45:33.682> their<00:45:33.844> lives<00:45:34.102> as<00:45:34.247> well.

00:45:34.425 --> 00:45:39.986
So<00:45:34.796> we're<00:45:35.358> kind<00:45:35.519> of<00:45:35.615> balancing,<00:45:36.740> you<00:45:36.853> know,<00:45:37.110> we're<00:45:37.303> one<00:45:37.447> of<00:45:37.479> the<00:45:37.544> ones<00:45:37.849> that's<00:45:38.411> just<00:45:38.669> kind<00:45:38.829> of<00:45:38.926> in<00:45:39.054> the<00:45:39.086> middle<00:45:39.392> balancing<00:45:39.858> it<00:45:39.938> all.

00:45:41.465 --> 00:45:43.955
I<00:45:41.497> said<00:45:41.722> only<00:45:42.525> 2<00:45:42.686> more,<00:45:42.911> but<00:45:43.248> I<00:45:43.329> actually<00:45:43.618> have<00:45:43.714> one<00:45:43.891> more.

00:45:44.560 --> 00:45:44.756
This.

00:45:44.986 --> 00:45:46.035
Uh,<00:45:45.330> what<00:45:45.494> are<00:45:45.560> you<00:45:45.740> reading?

00:45:46.232 --> 00:45:48.249
What<00:45:46.462> reading<00:45:46.954> recommendations<00:45:47.610> would<00:45:47.774> you<00:45:47.856> have<00:45:48.020> for<00:45:48.184> us?

00:45:50.563 --> 00:45:52.745
So,<00:45:51.031> um,<00:45:51.775> love,<00:45:52.018> love,<00:45:52.179> love<00:45:52.422> books.

00:45:52.907 --> 00:46:03.415
Right<00:45:53.068> now<00:45:53.553> I'm<00:45:53.715> reading<00:45:54.604> Working<00:45:54.928> Backwards,<00:45:55.817> which<00:45:56.124> is<00:45:56.609> a<00:45:57.029> very<00:45:57.417> operational<00:45:58.339> sort<00:45:58.630> of<00:45:58.727> focused<00:45:59.616> book<00:46:00.004> on<00:46:00.149> how<00:46:00.488> Amazon<00:46:02.024> operationally<00:46:02.994> works.

00:46:04.207 --> 00:46:10.285
Um,<00:46:04.854> I<00:46:04.935> am<00:46:05.177> also<00:46:05.581> reading<00:46:06.972> The<00:46:07.118> Obstacle<00:46:07.781> Is<00:46:07.942> the<00:46:08.023> Way,<00:46:08.573> which<00:46:08.751> is<00:46:08.912> sort<00:46:09.058> of<00:46:09.090> a<00:46:09.155> modern<00:46:09.543> take<00:46:09.707> on<00:46:09.826> Stoicism.

00:46:11.447 --> 00:46:12.489
Ryan<00:46:12.024> Holiday,<00:46:12.424> right?

00:46:12.649 --> 00:46:14.444
And<00:46:13.707> Ryan<00:46:13.947> Holiday.

00:46:14.572 --> 00:46:14.844
Yep.

00:46:15.053 --> 00:46:17.953
Just<00:46:15.293> finished<00:46:15.630> the<00:46:15.790> Walter<00:46:16.094> Isaacson<00:46:17.056> Elon<00:46:17.312> Musk<00:46:17.633> book.

00:46:18.739 --> 00:46:47.577
And<00:46:19.636> if<00:46:19.796> I<00:46:19.940> were<00:46:20.181> to<00:46:20.277> recommend<00:46:22.440> maybe<00:46:22.681> just<00:46:22.921> one<00:46:23.081> of<00:46:23.226> my<00:46:23.322> favorite<00:46:24.267> reads,<00:46:25.950> um,<00:46:26.928> there's<00:46:27.104> a<00:46:27.168> book<00:46:27.488> called<00:46:27.809> Blitzed,<00:46:29.556> which<00:46:30.037> is<00:46:30.373> a<00:46:30.453> take<00:46:30.758> on<00:46:30.998> Blitzkrieg<00:46:31.735> from<00:46:32.280> World<00:46:32.520> War<00:46:32.601> II,<00:46:33.803> and<00:46:34.524> it's<00:46:35.485> the<00:46:35.918> story<00:46:36.847> of<00:46:37.488> how<00:46:37.905> drugs<00:46:38.690> in<00:46:38.786> the<00:46:38.947> Third<00:46:39.267> Reich,<00:46:39.908> both<00:46:40.389> Hitler<00:46:40.774> himself<00:46:41.431> as<00:46:41.591> well<00:46:44.074> is<00:46:44.252> the<00:46:44.397> whole<00:46:44.574> German<00:46:44.962> army<00:46:45.220> was<00:46:45.382> on<00:46:45.543> drugs<00:46:46.172> for<00:46:46.576> all<00:46:46.737> of<00:46:46.883> World<00:46:47.141> War<00:46:47.222> II.

00:46:48.126 --> 00:46:55.269
And<00:46:48.190> we<00:46:48.222> don't<00:46:48.432> talk<00:46:48.610> about<00:46:48.836> it<00:46:48.933> in<00:46:49.013> our<00:46:49.159> history<00:46:49.498> books,<00:46:49.982> but<00:46:50.611> the<00:46:50.773> drug<00:46:51.080> use<00:46:52.002> meaningfully<00:46:52.584> affected<00:46:54.897> Blitzkrieg.

00:46:55.317 --> 00:46:58.294
I<00:46:55.366> always<00:46:55.560> just<00:46:55.738> assumed<00:46:56.110> they<00:46:56.191> were<00:46:56.466> just<00:46:56.612> hardcore<00:46:57.081> marching<00:46:57.728> and<00:46:57.825> going<00:46:58.051> fast.

00:46:58.714 --> 00:47:02.365
No,<00:46:58.860> they<00:46:58.957> were<00:46:59.103> all<00:46:59.280> on<00:46:59.507> meth<00:46:59.685> and<00:46:59.830> cocaine<00:47:00.493> and<00:47:00.638> didn't<00:47:00.881> sleep<00:47:01.284> for<00:47:01.623> 9<00:47:01.930> days.

00:47:02.817 --> 00:47:08.482
And<00:47:03.221> Blitzkrieg<00:47:04.544> literally<00:47:05.254> came<00:47:05.658> from<00:47:07.191> the<00:47:07.255> fact<00:47:07.449> that<00:47:07.578> they<00:47:07.659> were<00:47:07.756> just<00:47:07.982> all<00:47:08.062> drugged<00:47:08.385> up.

00:47:08.563 --> 00:47:15.412
And<00:47:08.643> so<00:47:08.805> it's<00:47:08.950> this<00:47:09.192> overlay<00:47:09.846> of<00:47:10.262> how<00:47:10.428> drug<00:47:10.844> use<00:47:11.443> sort<00:47:11.593> of<00:47:12.123> was<00:47:12.347> determinant<00:47:13.791> in<00:47:13.904> the<00:47:14.112> outcomes<00:47:14.754> of<00:47:14.850> World<00:47:15.155> War<00:47:15.219> II.

00:47:15.572 --> 00:47:22.904
And<00:47:15.668> it's<00:47:15.813> just<00:47:16.037> a<00:47:16.118> crazy<00:47:16.856> lens,<00:47:17.417> you<00:47:17.561> know,<00:47:17.674> that<00:47:17.802> you've<00:47:18.043> never<00:47:18.380> thought<00:47:18.684> of<00:47:19.727> that,<00:47:19.888> but,<00:47:20.128> you<00:47:20.225> know,<00:47:20.850> altered<00:47:21.091> history<00:47:22.374> forever.

00:47:23.498 --> 00:47:25.166
And<00:47:24.075> it's<00:47:24.219> a<00:47:24.621> fast<00:47:25.022> read.

00:47:25.294 --> 00:47:26.738
It's<00:47:25.439> a<00:47:25.519> fascinating<00:47:26.401> read.

00:47:26.786 --> 00:47:28.246
It's<00:47:26.963> just<00:47:27.139> a<00:47:27.268> crazy<00:47:27.845> book.

00:47:28.551 --> 00:47:29.562
Highly<00:47:28.808> recommend<00:47:29.273> that<00:47:29.434> one.

00:47:29.674 --> 00:47:30.749
So<00:47:29.931> Blitzed.

00:47:32.001 --> 00:47:37.455
Finally,<00:47:32.899> we<00:47:33.043> ask<00:47:33.204> everybody<00:47:33.461> the<00:47:33.525> same<00:47:33.765> question<00:47:34.086> at<00:47:34.166> the<00:47:34.263> end<00:47:34.343> of<00:47:34.407> the<00:47:34.487> interview,<00:47:34.904> and<00:47:34.985> that<00:47:35.225> is,<00:47:35.691> at<00:47:36.044> CEO.com,<00:47:36.669> we<00:47:36.830> believe<00:47:37.054> the<00:47:37.151> chances<00:47:37.391> win.

00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:39.878
The<00:47:37.552> chances<00:47:37.715> one<00:47:37.796> gives<00:47:38.137> is<00:47:38.268> just<00:47:38.446> as<00:47:38.528> important<00:47:38.788> as<00:47:38.918> the<00:47:39.016> chances<00:47:39.341> one<00:47:39.504> takes.

00:47:40.561 --> 00:47:43.569
When<00:47:40.723> you<00:47:40.951> hear<00:47:41.146> that,<00:47:41.439> who<00:47:41.618> gave<00:47:41.862> you<00:47:42.008> a<00:47:42.041> chance<00:47:42.431> to<00:47:42.577> get<00:47:42.740> you<00:47:42.838> to<00:47:42.919> where<00:47:43.065> you<00:47:43.244> are<00:47:43.407> today?

00:47:47.122 --> 00:47:56.470
I<00:47:47.219> have<00:47:47.478> many,<00:47:48.109> but<00:47:48.417> will<00:47:50.358> honor<00:47:50.536> the<00:47:50.634> name<00:47:50.941> of<00:47:51.346> Chris<00:47:51.734> Eyre,<00:47:52.300> who<00:47:52.786> I<00:47:52.867> met<00:47:53.126> on<00:47:53.271> an<00:47:53.433> airplane<00:47:54.177> as<00:47:54.404> we<00:47:54.598> were—<00:47:54.889> you<00:47:54.970> hear<00:47:55.132> stories<00:47:55.456> sitting<00:47:55.858> next<00:47:56.100> to<00:47:56.180> someone.

00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:57.260
It<00:47:56.599> wasn't<00:47:56.905> even<00:47:57.066> that.

00:47:57.324 --> 00:47:58.983
We<00:47:57.485> were<00:47:57.630> getting<00:47:58.033> off<00:47:58.274> the<00:47:58.435> airplane.

00:47:59.660 --> 00:48:06.973
He<00:47:59.821> saw<00:48:00.207> a<00:48:00.288> Canadian<00:48:00.787> flag<00:48:01.254> I<00:48:01.415> had<00:48:01.673> on<00:48:01.705> my<00:48:01.915> backpack,<00:48:02.559> which<00:48:02.720> was<00:48:03.928> from<00:48:04.331> the<00:48:04.643> LDS<00:48:05.159> mission<00:48:05.758> that<00:48:05.908> I<00:48:06.008> served<00:48:06.490> in<00:48:06.640> Canada.

00:48:07.782 --> 00:48:11.565
And<00:48:07.846> as<00:48:08.007> we<00:48:08.183> are<00:48:08.407> walking<00:48:08.808> off<00:48:09.000> the<00:48:09.145> jet<00:48:09.465> bridge,<00:48:09.850> he<00:48:09.962> sees<00:48:10.283> it<00:48:10.331> and<00:48:10.411> he<00:48:10.523> says,<00:48:10.812> oh,<00:48:10.892> are<00:48:10.988> you<00:48:11.132> Canadian?

00:48:11.645 --> 00:48:13.409
I<00:48:11.806> said,<00:48:11.966> no,<00:48:12.255> but<00:48:12.335> I<00:48:12.511> lived<00:48:12.671> there<00:48:12.816> for<00:48:12.976> 2<00:48:13.152> years.

00:48:13.473 --> 00:48:14.643
He<00:48:13.553> said,<00:48:13.777> oh,<00:48:13.954> were<00:48:14.034> you<00:48:14.178> a<00:48:14.194> missionary?

00:48:14.739 --> 00:48:15.284
I<00:48:14.755> said,<00:48:14.932> I<00:48:15.060> was.

00:48:15.942 --> 00:48:16.647
He<00:48:15.974> said,<00:48:16.182> which<00:48:16.374> mission?

00:48:16.695 --> 00:48:17.721
I<00:48:16.759> said,<00:48:17.320> Toronto.

00:48:17.865 --> 00:48:19.436
He<00:48:17.897> said,<00:48:18.122> oh,<00:48:18.266> I<00:48:18.330> was<00:48:18.426> the<00:48:18.522> mission<00:48:18.843> president<00:48:19.308> there.

00:48:20.189 --> 00:48:22.145
So<00:48:20.526> we<00:48:20.670> had<00:48:20.863> this<00:48:21.231> common<00:48:21.632> connection.

00:48:22.193 --> 00:48:23.267
We're<00:48:22.289> walking<00:48:22.610> off<00:48:22.770> a<00:48:22.834> jet<00:48:23.011> bridge.

00:48:23.331 --> 00:48:24.229
He<00:48:23.428> says,<00:48:23.716> what<00:48:23.828> do<00:48:23.892> you<00:48:23.973> do?

00:48:24.678 --> 00:48:25.608
I<00:48:24.774> said,<00:48:24.934> I'm<00:48:25.079> an<00:48:25.159> entrepreneur.

00:48:25.736 --> 00:48:26.153
What<00:48:25.816> do<00:48:25.880> you<00:48:25.992> do?

00:48:26.201 --> 00:48:27.211
He<00:48:26.297> said,<00:48:26.521> I'm<00:48:26.634> a<00:48:26.698> VC.

00:48:27.884 --> 00:48:38.336
And<00:48:28.862> he<00:48:29.022> ended<00:48:29.247> up<00:48:29.423> being<00:48:29.904> the<00:48:29.984> first<00:48:30.305> person<00:48:30.866> to<00:48:31.122> support<00:48:31.507> me<00:48:31.892> and<00:48:32.212> write<00:48:32.404> a<00:48:32.469> check<00:48:32.869> into<00:48:33.174> Degreed<00:48:34.136> after<00:48:34.392> I<00:48:34.456> had<00:48:34.633> pitched<00:48:34.969> literally<00:48:35.514> dozens<00:48:35.995> and<00:48:36.139> dozens<00:48:36.797> and<00:48:36.941> dozens<00:48:37.358> and<00:48:37.502> dozens<00:48:37.903> of<00:48:37.999> VCs.

00:48:38.640 --> 00:48:39.637
Everyone<00:48:39.025> had<00:48:39.121> told<00:48:39.281> me<00:48:39.330> me<00:48:39.378> know.

00:48:40.334 --> 00:48:47.057
He<00:48:40.415> believed<00:48:40.804> in<00:48:40.885> me,<00:48:41.128> gave<00:48:41.306> me<00:48:41.387> a<00:48:41.468> chance<00:48:41.938> when<00:48:42.051> no<00:48:42.181> one<00:48:42.343> else<00:48:42.521> would,<00:48:43.963> and<00:48:44.060> without<00:48:44.611> him,<00:48:45.178> absolutely,<00:48:45.761> there<00:48:45.923> would<00:48:46.085> be<00:48:46.182> no<00:48:46.490> DegreeD<00:48:46.879> today.

00:48:47.890 --> 00:48:50.635
So,<00:48:48.148> you<00:48:48.229> know,<00:48:48.632> very<00:48:48.810> grateful<00:48:49.214> to<00:48:50.005> Chris<00:48:50.409> Eyre.

00:48:50.845 --> 00:48:52.089
It's<00:48:51.620> incredible.

00:48:52.186 --> 00:48:54.463
David,<00:48:52.606> thank<00:48:52.767> you<00:48:52.848> so<00:48:52.945> much<00:48:53.236> for<00:48:53.316> taking<00:48:53.672> so<00:48:53.752> much<00:48:53.962> time<00:48:54.140> with<00:48:54.302> us.

00:48:55.012 --> 00:48:55.868
Really<00:48:55.174> appreciate<00:48:55.674> it,<00:48:55.755> man.

00:48:56.482 --> 00:48:57.435
Best<00:48:56.724> of<00:48:56.789> luck<00:48:56.967> with<00:48:57.112> everything.

00:48:58.578 --> 00:48:59.020
Thanks,<00:48:58.782> Clint.

00:48:59.071 --> 00:48:59.836
It's<00:48:59.292> good<00:48:59.343> to<00:48:59.394> be<00:48:59.547> on,<00:48:59.649> man.

```