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# Divvy CEO Blake Murray: Building a multi-billion-dollar FinTech company
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/from-wildlife-biologist-to-tech-entrepreneur-divvy-founder-blake-murray-s-story/
- Published: 2021-08-25T15:52:52.000Z
- Updated: 2026-09-03T22:46:27.000Z
- Description: The Divvy founder on the pizza franchise that failed, the bank meeting that worked, and the layoffs he still can't talk about easily.
- Author: Clint Betts

# Blake Murray wanted to be a spy

Blake Murray went to law school to get recruited by the CIA. He has never said that publicly before. Law school was the last box he needed checked, and it worked. Over eight or nine months, he flew around the country for interviews and assessment tests, aiming for a job as an operations officer in the Clandestine Services, posing as something else in a foreign country. "That was my absolute goal of my life, truly," he told the CEO.com Podcast. He reached the final step, the conditional offer, and then the agency went silent. "I never heard from them again."

He had a wife and young kids and a plan B: a commercial real estate fund, "easily the most boring job I've ever had in my life." He had already walked away from wildlife biology, the thing he loved most, after leaving his wife home with an eight-month-old and a second on the way while he worked with elephants in Africa. He had dropped out of law school and an MBA program, a year each. Then his cousin Brandon Rodman let him invest in and join a small Utah company called Weave. That is where Murray cut his teeth in tech, and that is roughly how it goes for a lot of founders, he thinks, no matter how clean the story sounds later.

His father's story sounds cleaner. By Murray's telling, his dad heard a young Steve Jobs speak at Stanford in the 1970s, cold-called Apple until they hired him, and became one of its earliest employees, with a hand in the 1984 Super Bowl ad. He followed Jobs out the door, landed at Microsoft through grad school classmate Steve Ballmer, and got close enough to Bill Gates that the Murray kids went to his wedding in Hawaii. After that he cofounded Unitus, a microcredit organization, which Murray calls his proudest work. Murray's parents told the kids plainly: "This isn't normal, don't let it get to your heads."

Divvy came out of a bad investment. After Weave, Murray became a franchisor for a fast-casual pizza chain across Idaho, Utah, and part of Colorado. The parent company was insolvent. Trying to keep his units alive, he found that every piece of finance software showed him what had happened 90 days ago. Worse than the software was the feeling. The fear of not making payroll, he realized, was universal among small business owners, and it came from not being able to see inside the business in real time. Banks and finance software sat on opposite sides of a gap. What if they were the same thing?

"It was a lightning bolt moment," he said. "The succession of connecting those dots occurred in a single day." Within two weeks, he was spending his own money. That was early 2016\. Bill.com's SEC filings put the start of his tenure as Divvy's CEO [in April of that year](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1786352/000119312521307125/d234755ddef14a.htm?ref=ceo.com).

He told almost nobody. Alex Bean, a childhood friend who became his cofounder, was first. His father was not. Murray waited until May, after months of stress-testing his own logic, because he had pitched his dad roughly 20 businesses over the years and never gotten a yes. This time his father leaned in. "You got something here."

A Utah agency, [Izeni](https://izeni.com/?ref=ceo.com), built the wireframes and a working MVP, then told Murray honestly that the bank integrations he needed were beyond what they should build and pointed him to his first engineers. The wireframes did their real work in Minnesota. In late May 2016, Murray and Bean sat down at US Bank headquarters across from 14 people in suits. "Holy crap," Murray remembers thinking. Then they gave what he calls the pitch of a lifetime, arguing that small businesses did not care about cash back and that banking and software were about to become one product. They left with an agreement that included a cut of interchange. Neither founder knew what interchange was. "We're like, what? We have revenue."

Divvy launched on January 1, 2018\. Investors started calling by the end of the month. "Whoa, this is like a crazy idea. Can we just meet with you?" Murray found it flattering and made himself wait. Five months later, he took a Series A from Pelion Ventures, then Insight two months after that, then NEA within a year. Pelion's own account has its partners walking into Divvy's office after being told they were too late and [making an offer anyway](https://pelionvp.com/blake-murray-divvy/?ref=ceo.com).

Murray has a low opinion of the bootstrapped-versus-venture debate. "LinkedIn can just be a cesspool," he said. Both models can be great, and both can go badly. What he cared about was control. He turned down higher valuations when they came with an extra board seat or different voting rights, because he wanted to be the largest shareholder and hold the board votes. Nobody told him to do that. He had read enough horror stories.

It mattered in March 2020\. Divvy was extending credit to small businesses just as small businesses were being shut down, and the only comparable data was from 2008\. The company partnered with Cross River Bank to push Paycheck Protection Program applications through faster than the government's own forms. Then Murray made the call he still finds hard to talk about. Divvy's sales operation was, in his words, bloated, and surviving without another venture round meant automating most of it. That meant layoffs of people he considered friends. "So many tears shed." Divvy's people team then worked the Utah ecosystem until more than 90 percent of them had jobs, many at higher pay. When the self-serve product took off that August, landing a couple hundred customers a month and doubling from there, Divvy rehired the ones who wanted to come back. By the time Bill.com announced the deal the following May, Divvy was serving [more than 7,500 monthly active businesses](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1786352/000156459021024959/bill-ex992%5F84.htm?ref=ceo.com), according to the announcement filed with the SEC.

Bill.com reached out that fall. Murray kept raising money anyway, including a round with PayPal, because getting acquired was never the goal. Talks got serious in January 2021\. The deal closed on June 1 at roughly $2.5 billion in stock and cash, [per Bill.com's announcement filed with the SEC](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1786352/000119312521178541/d189628dex991.htm?ref=ceo.com).

Since then: Murray stayed on to run Divvy inside Bill.com, then moved to an advisory role. In October 2022, he signed a [transition and separation agreement](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1786352/000178635223000009/bill-20221231xex101.htm?ref=ceo.com), later filed with the SEC, that kept him on as an employee through January 1, 2023, and as an advisor after that. The agreement noted his earlier move to Advisor to CEO, required him to describe himself only as "Founder and Former-CEO of Divvy," and made any public comment on the acquisition or its integration grounds for forfeiting his unvested equity. His non-compete ran through June 1, 2024\. He has kept a low profile since.

Murray says being around people drains him. His ideal weekend is quiet, with his wife and kids. He can turn it on as a CEO, but he is specific about what that means. "I don't have versions of who I am." Turning it on means asking a lot of people, and he feels entitled to ask only because he has already done it himself. His faith, he said, is not a pillar of his life but the wrapper around all of them, and it is why a big exit did not slow him down. "I think a lot of people after a big exit would be like, I freaking did it. I'm done. And I couldn't be more motivated than ever."

When asked for the best leadership advice he has received, he gave four words. "You are what you do."

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to Blake Murray and Divvy
00:01:40 Blake's Father, A Tech Legend
00:11:24 Childhood Growing Up Near Tech Giants
00:12:04 From Wildlife Biology to the CIA
00:17:50 Landing at Weave and Entering Tech
00:19:20 The Franchise Failure That Sparked Divvy
00:23:29 Pitching the Idea to His Father
00:27:34 Building the MVP With Aizenni
00:30:26 Winning Over US Bank
00:33:06 Optimizing Fundraising for Control
00:41:01 Turning On Authentic Leadership
00:47:34 Divvy's Customers During The Pandemic
00:51:54 Pivoting To A Self-Serve Product
00:55:19 Talks Begin With Bill.com
00:57:05 Faith and Final Leadership Advice
```

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And<00:03:16.074> he<00:03:16.219> stood<00:03:16.556> there<00:03:16.861> for<00:03:17.102> the<00:03:17.262> hour<00:03:17.487> or<00:03:17.664> two<00:03:17.905> listening<00:03:18.386> to<00:03:18.483> Steve<00:03:18.804> Jobs<00:03:19.366> talking<00:03:19.848> about<00:03:21.357> not<00:03:21.534> only<00:03:21.919> Apple,<00:03:22.417> but<00:03:23.284> about<00:03:24.023> personal<00:03:24.488> computing<00:03:25.002> and<00:03:25.147> how<00:03:25.371> it<00:03:25.468> was<00:03:25.709> going<00:03:26.014> to<00:03:26.174> be<00:03:27.539> absolutely<00:03:28.182> transformational,<00:03:29.081> not<00:03:29.306> only<00:03:29.563> to<00:03:30.044> families,<00:03:30.671> but<00:03:30.783> to<00:03:30.911> how<00:03:31.714> all<00:03:31.795> of<00:03:31.891> us<00:03:32.132> interacted<00:03:32.678> with<00:03:32.774> the<00:03:32.854> world<00:03:33.176> and<00:03:33.481> interacted<00:03:33.962> with<00:03:34.139> each<00:03:34.300> other.

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And<00:03:35.584> during<00:03:35.889> the<00:03:35.921> meeting<00:03:36.467> and<00:03:36.612> after<00:03:36.933> the<00:03:36.965> meeting,<00:03:37.912> I<00:03:38.217> think<00:03:38.394> he<00:03:38.538> was<00:03:38.699> probably<00:03:39.020> experiencing<00:03:40.497> similar<00:03:42.231> to<00:03:42.328> what<00:03:42.568> most<00:03:43.034> of<00:03:43.130> us<00:03:43.355> do<00:03:43.757> of<00:03:44.575> like<00:03:44.913> this<00:03:45.860> general<00:03:46.261> confusion<00:03:46.920> about<00:03:47.225> life<00:03:47.771> of<00:03:48.252> what<00:03:48.349> do<00:03:48.509> I<00:03:48.670> do?

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What's<00:03:49.216> my<00:03:49.456> purpose?

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What<00:03:50.372> am<00:03:50.452> I<00:03:50.596> actually<00:03:51.078> interested<00:03:51.544> in?

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And<00:03:52.202> I<00:03:52.266> think<00:03:52.443> that<00:03:52.587> was<00:03:52.700> a<00:03:52.844> really<00:03:53.727> pivotal<00:03:54.048> moment<00:03:54.450> for<00:03:54.594> him<00:03:55.237> where<00:03:55.317> he<00:03:55.397> was<00:03:55.445> like,<00:03:55.718> this,<00:03:56.601> this<00:03:56.858> is<00:03:57.019> it.

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This<00:03:57.500> just<00:03:57.725> spoke<00:03:58.689> to,<00:03:59.106> to<00:03:59.283> me,<00:03:59.748> to<00:03:59.845> my<00:04:00.053> core.

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So<00:04:00.551> like<00:04:00.776> my,<00:04:01.354> my<00:04:01.595> inner<00:04:01.755> soul,<00:04:02.157> something<00:04:02.558> just<00:04:02.783> woke<00:04:03.024> up.

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And<00:04:04.949> I<00:04:05.189> have<00:04:05.382> to<00:04:05.510> go<00:04:05.686> here,<00:04:06.408> not<00:04:06.649> just<00:04:06.809> in<00:04:06.889> the<00:04:06.969> space,<00:04:07.370> but<00:04:07.595> I<00:04:07.691> have<00:04:07.868> to<00:04:07.996> go<00:04:08.092> figure<00:04:08.493> out<00:04:09.118> how<00:04:09.279> to<00:04:09.359> go<00:04:09.600> work<00:04:09.840> for<00:04:09.952> this<00:04:10.161> guy<00:04:10.417> who<00:04:10.514> is<00:04:10.738> my<00:04:11.059> age,<00:04:11.861> but<00:04:12.422> I<00:04:12.727> gotta<00:04:12.967> go<00:04:13.128> work<00:04:13.384> for<00:04:13.545> him<00:04:14.427> because<00:04:14.732> I<00:04:14.812> just<00:04:15.052> know<00:04:15.325> that<00:04:15.533> goodness<00:04:15.950> is<00:04:16.095> gonna<00:04:16.335> come<00:04:16.576> from<00:04:16.752> that.

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And<00:04:18.741> I<00:04:19.062> think<00:04:19.334> that<00:04:20.024> it<00:04:20.120> was<00:04:20.922> an<00:04:21.002> incredible<00:04:21.387> example<00:04:21.884> of<00:04:21.964> hustle<00:04:23.007> and<00:04:23.183> to<00:04:23.328> really<00:04:23.648> kind<00:04:23.809> of<00:04:23.889> summarize<00:04:24.514> it,<00:04:24.755> but<00:04:25.557> he<00:04:25.813> got<00:04:26.038> on<00:04:26.198> and<00:04:26.278> he<00:04:26.439> cold<00:04:26.695> called<00:04:27.160> Apple<00:04:27.818> until<00:04:28.043> they<00:04:28.139> paid<00:04:28.315> attention<00:04:28.780> to<00:04:28.925> him.

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I<00:04:29.730> think<00:04:29.908> he<00:04:30.005> somehow<00:04:30.458> even<00:04:30.716> got<00:04:31.040> like<00:04:31.218> Steve<00:04:31.525> Jobs'<00:04:33.465> executive<00:04:34.015> assistant's<00:04:34.743> number<00:04:35.794> and<00:04:36.295> would<00:04:36.376> just<00:04:36.603> cold<00:04:36.845> call<00:04:37.023> the<00:04:37.169> crap<00:04:37.427> out<00:04:37.573> of<00:04:37.654> them<00:04:37.751> until<00:04:38.009> they<00:04:38.220> paid<00:04:38.317> attention<00:04:38.721> to<00:04:38.770> him,<00:04:38.946> interviewed<00:04:39.284> him,<00:04:39.847> and<00:04:39.991> then<00:04:40.152> hired<00:04:40.490> him.

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And<00:04:40.731> he<00:04:40.811> was<00:04:40.956> one<00:04:41.053> of<00:04:41.117> the<00:04:41.294> earliest<00:04:41.696> then<00:04:42.419> team<00:04:42.660> members.

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And<00:04:43.223> I<00:04:43.304> believe<00:04:43.545> that<00:04:43.706> was<00:04:43.947> in<00:04:44.043> '75,<00:04:44.895> '76,<00:04:45.474> something<00:04:45.780> like<00:04:45.957> that.

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So<00:04:48.290> this<00:04:48.517> is<00:04:48.695> very<00:04:49.425> early<00:04:49.896> on.

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This<00:04:50.885> is<00:04:51.047> super<00:04:51.372> early<00:04:51.842> on,<00:04:52.021> right?

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Like<00:04:52.508> this<00:04:52.653> is—.

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Super<00:04:53.400> early<00:04:53.643> stages.

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'75.

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I<00:04:56.143> bet<00:04:56.319> Steve<00:04:56.704> loved<00:04:57.008> the<00:04:57.105> cold<00:04:57.409> call,<00:04:57.746> by<00:04:57.906> the<00:04:58.050> way.

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That's<00:04:58.708> like<00:04:58.852> what<00:04:59.012> he<00:04:59.188> did<00:04:59.413> when<00:04:59.493> he<00:04:59.573> was<00:04:59.685> a<00:04:59.750> kid.

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I'm<00:05:00.230> sure<00:05:00.455> you've<00:05:00.615> read<00:05:00.872> the<00:05:01.032> famous<00:05:01.737> biography<00:05:02.234> by<00:05:02.940> Walter<00:05:03.501> Isaacson<00:05:04.078> did<00:05:04.302> on<00:05:04.959> Steve<00:05:05.280> Jobs<00:05:05.601> where<00:05:05.697> he<00:05:05.905> cold<00:05:06.226> called<00:05:07.043> Hewlett-Packard<00:05:08.887> and<00:05:08.967> he<00:05:09.111> actually<00:05:09.368> got<00:05:09.672> the<00:05:09.752> CEO<00:05:10.634> of<00:05:10.730> Hewlett-Packard<00:05:11.932> to<00:05:11.997> see<00:05:12.253> Steve<00:05:12.494> Jobs.

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So,<00:05:13.359> I'm<00:05:13.455> sure<00:05:13.632> Steve<00:05:14.161> loved<00:05:15.684> the<00:05:16.004> cold<00:05:16.245> calling<00:05:16.565> approach.

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I<00:05:17.447> bet<00:05:17.607> that<00:05:17.687> was<00:05:17.848> super<00:05:18.104> useful.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And<00:05:20.589> so,<00:05:20.765> not<00:05:21.054> only<00:05:21.390> was<00:05:21.615> he<00:05:21.711> fortunate<00:05:22.272> to<00:05:22.913> then<00:05:23.154> have<00:05:23.554> a<00:05:23.699> very<00:05:24.019> material<00:05:24.660> job<00:05:25.061> there<00:05:26.039> in<00:05:26.279> sales,<00:05:26.760> marketing,<00:05:27.370> some<00:05:27.482> product<00:05:27.882> development.

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That<00:05:29.325> famous<00:05:29.710> commercial<00:05:30.447> of<00:05:30.544> that<00:05:30.752> 1984<00:05:31.553> commercial<00:05:32.756> where,<00:05:32.916> you<00:05:33.012> know,<00:05:33.189> it's<00:05:33.333> the<00:05:33.493> woman<00:05:33.734> running<00:05:33.974> through<00:05:34.214> is<00:05:34.295> the<00:05:34.391> Super<00:05:34.679> Bowl<00:05:35.000> commercial.

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And<00:05:35.401> still<00:05:35.577> to<00:05:35.673> this<00:05:35.882> day,<00:05:36.603> kind<00:05:36.715> of<00:05:36.763> spoken<00:05:37.180> of<00:05:37.405> as<00:05:37.982> kind<00:05:38.126> of<00:05:38.206> the<00:05:38.302> perfect<00:05:39.488> commercial.

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That<00:05:40.755> was<00:05:40.931> my<00:05:41.027> dad's<00:05:41.268> brainchild.

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He's<00:05:41.989> just<00:05:42.150> a<00:05:42.374> really<00:05:42.695> creative,<00:05:43.512> interesting<00:05:43.993> guy.

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And<00:05:44.891> so<00:05:45.195> he<00:05:45.500> brought<00:05:45.820> that<00:05:45.997> to<00:05:46.173> life<00:05:46.542> working<00:05:46.798> with<00:05:46.975> a<00:05:47.039> famous<00:05:47.359> director.

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I<00:05:47.920> can't<00:05:48.385> remember<00:05:48.722> who<00:05:48.818> it<00:05:48.962> was<00:05:49.668> off<00:05:49.764> the<00:05:49.860> top<00:05:50.085> of<00:05:50.149> my<00:05:50.181> mind,<00:05:50.549> but<00:05:51.832> he<00:05:51.864> had<00:05:52.008> an<00:05:52.088> incredible<00:05:52.730> professional<00:05:53.916> experience<00:05:54.573> there,<00:05:54.797> but<00:05:54.894> I<00:05:54.974> think<00:05:55.278> way<00:05:55.391> more<00:05:55.615> meaningful<00:05:56.016> to<00:05:56.176> him<00:05:56.416> was<00:05:56.657> his<00:05:56.897> personal<00:05:57.234> relationship<00:05:57.939> with<00:05:58.019> Steve<00:05:58.885> as<00:05:59.446> they<00:05:59.542> became<00:05:59.863> very,<00:06:00.103> very<00:06:00.408> close,<00:06:01.930> and<00:06:02.748> Steve<00:06:02.988> Jobs<00:06:03.309> became<00:06:03.614> close<00:06:03.886> even<00:06:04.014> with<00:06:04.175> my<00:06:04.207> mom,<00:06:04.607> and<00:06:04.752> kind<00:06:04.912> of<00:06:05.008> the<00:06:05.072> three<00:06:05.313> of<00:06:05.393> them<00:06:06.659> would<00:06:07.220> lean<00:06:07.396> on<00:06:07.541> each<00:06:07.701> other<00:06:07.941> for<00:06:08.038> support<00:06:08.519> and<00:06:08.663> commiserate<00:06:09.144> with<00:06:09.304> each<00:06:09.464> other.

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You<00:06:10.362> know,<00:06:10.442> my<00:06:10.602> dad<00:06:10.987> was<00:06:11.564> kind<00:06:11.692> of<00:06:11.724> this<00:06:11.965> albatross<00:06:12.590> in<00:06:12.670> this<00:06:12.830> group<00:06:13.087> of<00:06:13.327> really<00:06:13.648> young,<00:06:14.049> brilliant,<00:06:14.594> hard-charging<00:06:16.693> individuals,<00:06:17.415> but<00:06:17.559> then<00:06:17.655> he<00:06:17.735> had<00:06:17.896> four<00:06:18.136> young<00:06:18.377> kids,<00:06:19.322> and<00:06:20.316> so<00:06:21.663> that<00:06:22.368> was<00:06:23.587> not<00:06:23.731> only<00:06:23.908> a<00:06:23.988> topic<00:06:24.229> of<00:06:24.373> conversation<00:06:25.095> with<00:06:25.736> the<00:06:26.377> Apple<00:06:26.730> executive<00:06:27.275> team,<00:06:27.596> but<00:06:27.837> it<00:06:27.917> was<00:06:28.077> something<00:06:28.462> then<00:06:29.200> that<00:06:29.360> Steve<00:06:29.681> wanted<00:06:30.002> for<00:06:30.066> himself<00:06:31.028> when<00:06:31.204> he<00:06:31.605> looked<00:06:31.830> at<00:06:31.926> this<00:06:32.150> little<00:06:32.311> Murray<00:06:32.648> family.

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And<00:06:34.155> so<00:06:34.267> he<00:06:34.508> used<00:06:34.812> to,<00:06:35.117> I<00:06:35.133> mean,<00:06:35.293> there's<00:06:35.406> stories<00:06:35.710> of<00:06:35.775> him<00:06:35.999> coming<00:06:36.175> over<00:06:36.352> super<00:06:36.721> late<00:06:36.897> at<00:06:36.977> night<00:06:38.100> where,<00:06:38.404> you<00:06:38.437> know,<00:06:38.741> us<00:06:38.902> kids<00:06:39.158> are<00:06:39.222> in<00:06:39.383> bed<00:06:39.639> and<00:06:39.784> he<00:06:39.832> would<00:06:39.944> just<00:06:40.136> sit<00:06:40.249> with<00:06:40.345> my<00:06:40.505> parents<00:06:41.050> and<00:06:41.211> being<00:06:41.387> like,<00:06:42.494> how<00:06:42.526> do<00:06:42.670> I<00:06:42.814> get<00:06:42.975> this<00:06:43.151> in<00:06:43.231> my<00:06:43.392> life?

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How<00:06:43.728> do<00:06:43.873> I<00:06:43.953> get<00:06:44.113> balance<00:06:44.514> in<00:06:44.578> my<00:06:44.675> life?

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And<00:06:45.156> so,<00:06:45.781> you<00:06:45.813> know,<00:06:45.941> we<00:06:46.038> love<00:06:46.262> sitting<00:06:46.535> around<00:06:46.759> with<00:06:46.904> my<00:06:47.000> dad<00:06:47.401> and<00:06:49.725> Hearing<00:06:50.431> his<00:06:50.847> stories<00:06:51.713> again,<00:06:52.050> that<00:06:52.210> I<00:06:52.290> think<00:06:52.514> touch<00:06:52.771> more<00:06:52.931> on<00:06:53.011> the<00:06:53.156> personal<00:06:53.540> level.

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He's<00:06:54.117> got<00:06:54.278> incredible<00:06:54.695> stories<00:06:55.175> of<00:06:55.833> the<00:06:55.961> crazy<00:06:56.233> meetings<00:06:56.939> and<00:06:57.484> contriving<00:06:57.981> these<00:06:58.381> crazy<00:06:58.702> strategies<00:06:59.568> to<00:07:00.129> outposition<00:07:00.850> IBM,<00:07:01.732> because<00:07:01.972> IBM<00:07:02.389> was<00:07:02.613> already<00:07:02.950> massive<00:07:03.415> at<00:07:03.495> that<00:07:03.591> point.

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But<00:07:05.274> then<00:07:05.579> the<00:07:05.675> other<00:07:05.835> component<00:07:06.236> of<00:07:06.397> that<00:07:07.262> is<00:07:07.535> some<00:07:07.743> of<00:07:07.791> the<00:07:07.903> fallout<00:07:09.378> of<00:07:09.667> when<00:07:09.939> Steve<00:07:10.324> was<00:07:10.564> fired,<00:07:11.847> and<00:07:11.991> my<00:07:12.167> dad<00:07:12.873> was<00:07:14.091> just<00:07:14.476> loyal<00:07:15.438> as<00:07:15.918> could<00:07:16.079> be<00:07:16.255> to<00:07:16.415> him.

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He<00:07:16.880> was<00:07:17.008> like,<00:07:17.137> "If<00:07:17.217> Steve's<00:07:17.521> not<00:07:17.634> running<00:07:17.922> it,<00:07:18.083> I'm<00:07:18.243> out."<00:07:19.044> He<00:07:19.141> went<00:07:19.221> to<00:07:19.301> grad<00:07:19.541> school,<00:07:19.718> Steve<00:07:20.086> Ballmer.

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And<00:07:21.064> so<00:07:21.208> that's<00:07:21.545> when,<00:07:21.769> after<00:07:22.427> a<00:07:22.507> period<00:07:22.972> of<00:07:23.405> a<00:07:23.469> different<00:07:23.709> pit<00:07:23.950> stop,<00:07:24.334> Steve<00:07:24.591> Ballmer<00:07:25.072> recruited<00:07:25.537> my<00:07:25.697> dad<00:07:26.354> over<00:07:26.450> to<00:07:26.530> Microsoft,<00:07:27.316> and<00:07:27.396> my<00:07:27.476> dad<00:07:27.797> joined<00:07:28.037> Microsoft<00:07:28.823> '88,<00:07:29.239> '89,<00:07:29.720> something<00:07:30.041> like<00:07:30.201> that.

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Now,<00:07:31.147> before<00:07:31.468> they<00:07:31.628> had<00:07:32.750> any<00:07:33.071> kind<00:07:33.231> of<00:07:33.391> HR<00:07:33.888> practice<00:07:34.449> stood<00:07:34.754> up,<00:07:35.235> any<00:07:35.395> formal<00:07:35.796> people<00:07:36.116> in<00:07:36.197> places,<00:07:37.239> and<00:07:37.719> he<00:07:37.800> was<00:07:37.976> able<00:07:38.297> to<00:07:38.697> build<00:07:39.082> all<00:07:39.178> of<00:07:39.258> that<00:07:39.579> for<00:07:39.723> them<00:07:40.541> throughout<00:07:40.845> the<00:07:40.877> '90s<00:07:41.583> and<00:07:41.967> also<00:07:42.224> then<00:07:42.448> became<00:07:42.785> very<00:07:43.410> close<00:07:43.667> on<00:07:43.747> a<00:07:43.827> personal<00:07:44.212> level<00:07:44.532> with<00:07:44.693> Bill<00:07:44.853> Gates<00:07:45.270> and<00:07:45.446> some<00:07:45.686> of<00:07:45.751> these<00:07:46.392> other<00:07:46.809> just<00:07:47.338> really<00:07:47.770> fascinating<00:07:49.037> individuals.

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I<00:07:49.742> grew<00:07:49.902> up<00:07:50.063> hearing<00:07:50.319> names<00:07:50.624> like<00:07:50.880> Nathan<00:07:51.201> Myhrvold<00:07:51.669> who<00:07:51.769> is<00:07:51.935> just<00:07:52.118> a<00:07:52.185> tech<00:07:52.434> giant,<00:07:54.710> Frank<00:07:54.822> Godet,<00:07:55.529> who<00:07:57.473> was<00:07:57.891> a<00:07:58.100> really<00:07:58.357> meaningful<00:07:59.224> influence<00:08:00.188> to<00:08:00.269> my<00:08:00.429> dad<00:08:00.831> and<00:08:01.168> also<00:08:01.409> just<00:08:01.570> a<00:08:01.650> business<00:08:01.972> genius.

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He<00:08:02.454> was,<00:08:03.016> he<00:08:03.096> was<00:08:03.257> brought<00:08:03.514> in<00:08:03.739> by<00:08:04.205> Bill<00:08:04.350> Gates<00:08:04.720> early<00:08:04.945> on<00:08:05.106> to<00:08:05.187> kind<00:08:05.348> of<00:08:05.428> be<00:08:05.573> the<00:08:05.686> adult<00:08:05.992> in<00:08:06.072> the<00:08:06.152> room<00:08:06.619> because<00:08:06.877> all<00:08:07.054> of<00:08:07.102> them<00:08:07.199> were<00:08:07.344> just<00:08:07.521> too<00:08:07.682> young<00:08:08.084> and<00:08:08.728> just<00:08:08.873> shooting<00:08:09.131> from<00:08:09.292> the<00:08:09.372> hip<00:08:09.614> and<00:08:09.694> trying<00:08:09.871> to<00:08:10.000> build<00:08:10.161> Microsoft,<00:08:10.740> and<00:08:10.966> Frank<00:08:11.223> was<00:08:11.449> brought<00:08:11.626> in<00:08:11.787> to<00:08:11.867> be<00:08:12.028> the<00:08:12.125> adult.

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But<00:08:13.484> yeah,<00:08:13.795> he<00:08:13.877> had<00:08:14.319> an<00:08:14.450> incredible<00:08:14.859> career.

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And<00:08:15.285> then,<00:08:16.005> not<00:08:16.169> to<00:08:16.251> belabor<00:08:16.578> the<00:08:16.676> point,<00:08:16.922> but<00:08:17.020> then<00:08:17.233> from<00:08:17.495> there<00:08:18.353> after<00:08:18.658> Microsoft,<00:08:19.316> which<00:08:19.492> I<00:08:19.557> believe<00:08:19.862> he<00:08:19.958> left<00:08:20.279> in<00:08:20.359> '99<00:08:20.841> or<00:08:20.921> 2000,<00:08:21.547> I<00:08:21.628> would<00:08:21.724> suggest<00:08:22.430> he<00:08:22.607> built<00:08:23.249> his<00:08:23.426> most<00:08:23.715> important<00:08:24.196> one,<00:08:24.437> which<00:08:24.694> was<00:08:25.962> before<00:08:27.343> microcredit<00:08:28.081> financing<00:08:29.028> or<00:08:29.173> kind<00:08:29.333> of<00:08:29.430> Kiva<00:08:30.457> and<00:08:30.553> these<00:08:30.939> other<00:08:31.822> really<00:08:32.303> incredible<00:08:33.122> microcredit<00:08:33.620> organizations<00:08:34.487> that<00:08:35.064> are<00:08:35.193> focused<00:08:35.610> on<00:08:35.771> the<00:08:35.915> most<00:08:36.172> impoverished<00:08:36.895> communities,<00:08:38.163> really<00:08:38.339> trying<00:08:38.644> to<00:08:38.805> lift<00:08:39.367> women<00:08:39.688> especially<00:08:40.731> out<00:08:40.828> of<00:08:40.908> poverty.

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That<00:08:42.818> concept<00:08:43.316> was<00:08:43.557> the<00:08:43.862> brainchild<00:08:44.664> or<00:08:45.242> You<00:08:45.274> know,<00:08:45.467> he<00:08:45.868> was<00:08:46.286> one<00:08:46.446> of<00:08:46.671> the<00:08:46.831> creators<00:08:47.489> of<00:08:47.586> it.

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My<00:08:47.891> dad<00:08:48.195> was<00:08:48.533> with<00:08:49.415> two<00:08:49.656> other<00:08:50.282> really<00:08:50.924> just<00:08:51.582> fantastic<00:08:52.224> individuals<00:08:52.786> and<00:08:52.866> they<00:08:53.010> created<00:08:53.283> an<00:08:53.347> organization<00:08:53.973> called<00:08:54.214> Unitus.

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And<00:08:56.638> Unitus<00:08:57.263> then<00:08:57.440> has<00:08:57.681> lifted<00:08:58.403> millions<00:08:59.045> and<00:08:59.125> millions<00:08:59.543> of<00:08:59.687> people<00:09:01.131> out<00:09:01.292> of<00:09:01.452> poverty<00:09:02.576> by<00:09:02.897> helping<00:09:03.282> them<00:09:03.394> start<00:09:03.699> their<00:09:03.860> own<00:09:04.020> businesses<00:09:04.582> on<00:09:04.662> these<00:09:05.401> small<00:09:05.850> microloans<00:09:06.652> and<00:09:06.733> creating<00:09:07.086> systems<00:09:07.615> of<00:09:07.696> accountability<00:09:08.514> and<00:09:08.659> returning<00:09:09.060> the<00:09:09.140> reporting.

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Now,<00:09:10.264> I<00:09:10.280> mean,<00:09:10.504> he<00:09:10.601> poured<00:09:10.986> his<00:09:11.146> heart<00:09:11.403> and<00:09:11.483> soul<00:09:11.804> into<00:09:12.109> that.

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And<00:09:12.543> so<00:09:14.292> just<00:09:14.452> what<00:09:14.548> a<00:09:14.612> great<00:09:14.788> example,<00:09:15.477> a<00:09:15.718> great<00:09:15.894> example<00:09:16.535> of,<00:09:17.817> I<00:09:17.897> think,<00:09:18.137> of<00:09:18.297> self-awareness,<00:09:19.115> of<00:09:19.259> being<00:09:19.515> aware<00:09:19.820> of<00:09:19.980> what<00:09:20.204> his<00:09:20.316> skills<00:09:20.845> were,<00:09:21.085> of<00:09:21.246> giving<00:09:21.486> his<00:09:21.646> heart<00:09:21.822> and<00:09:21.919> soul<00:09:22.223> to<00:09:22.303> whatever<00:09:22.688> he<00:09:22.784> was<00:09:23.008> in<00:09:23.120> as<00:09:23.329> well.

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At<00:09:24.867> the<00:09:24.947> same<00:09:25.187> time,<00:09:25.572> he<00:09:25.652> was<00:09:25.828> just<00:09:25.988> a<00:09:26.068> fantastic<00:09:27.254> husband<00:09:27.591> and<00:09:27.735> father,<00:09:29.417> but<00:09:30.250> it<00:09:30.395> definitely<00:09:31.837> gave<00:09:32.173> me<00:09:33.263> a<00:09:34.496> significant<00:09:35.522> bar<00:09:35.842> to<00:09:36.067> shoot<00:09:36.307> for<00:09:36.788> in<00:09:37.044> my<00:09:37.284> personal<00:09:37.845> life,<00:09:38.102> in<00:09:38.166> my<00:09:38.326> career.

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Well,<00:09:39.592> I<00:09:39.672> get<00:09:39.832> the<00:09:39.912> sense<00:09:40.233> that<00:09:40.329> your,<00:09:40.809> your<00:09:40.954> father<00:09:41.370> means<00:09:41.707> a<00:09:41.835> lot<00:09:42.075> to<00:09:42.155> you.

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And<00:09:44.640> you,<00:09:44.896> you,<00:09:45.201> you,<00:09:45.522> you<00:09:45.634> are<00:09:45.858> close<00:09:46.243> now<00:09:46.500> and<00:09:46.660> you<00:09:46.740> were<00:09:46.884> very<00:09:47.141> close<00:09:47.461> growing<00:09:47.766> up.

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I,<00:09:48.087> I'd<00:09:48.183> love<00:09:48.423> to<00:09:48.584> touch<00:09:48.968> on<00:09:50.571> what<00:09:50.988> your<00:09:51.373> childhood<00:09:52.094> experience<00:09:52.896> was<00:09:53.216> like.

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Did<00:09:53.954> you<00:09:54.114> have<00:09:54.579> a<00:09:54.675> sense<00:09:55.958> when<00:09:56.182> Steve<00:09:56.583> Jobs<00:09:56.919> was<00:09:57.080> coming<00:09:57.465> over<00:09:57.641> and<00:09:57.801> you<00:09:57.945> guys<00:09:58.346> all<00:09:58.426> had<00:09:58.587> to<00:09:58.667> go<00:09:58.699> to<00:09:58.843> bed,<00:10:00.110> did<00:10:00.286> you<00:10:00.382> have<00:10:00.623> a<00:10:00.687> sense<00:10:01.152> that<00:10:01.793> that<00:10:02.033> was<00:10:02.354> abnormal?

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Like<00:10:04.518> that<00:10:05.255> the<00:10:05.336> fact<00:10:05.736> that<00:10:05.881> Steve<00:10:06.297> Jobs<00:10:07.099> was<00:10:07.323> at<00:10:07.484> your<00:10:07.644> house.

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Did<00:10:08.939> you<00:10:09.038> have<00:10:09.284> that<00:10:10.270> or<00:10:10.500> was<00:10:10.698> it<00:10:10.845> just,<00:10:11.092> this<00:10:11.338> is<00:10:11.486> who<00:10:11.651> Dad<00:10:11.897> is?

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I<00:10:13.927> was<00:10:14.104> too<00:10:14.329> young<00:10:14.586> to<00:10:14.682> remember<00:10:15.052> any<00:10:15.213> of<00:10:15.245> that.

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You<00:10:15.566> know,<00:10:15.631> I<00:10:15.775> was<00:10:15.952> like,<00:10:16.193> it<00:10:16.579> was<00:10:16.820> my<00:10:16.917> twin<00:10:17.158> brother<00:10:17.399> and<00:10:17.543> I,<00:10:17.640> we<00:10:17.736> were<00:10:17.881> babies,<00:10:18.443> but<00:10:18.749> I<00:10:19.151> vividly<00:10:19.488> remember<00:10:19.810> the<00:10:19.890> Microsoft<00:10:20.645> days<00:10:21.481> and<00:10:21.979> we<00:10:22.124> lived<00:10:22.317> in<00:10:22.446> Redmond,<00:10:22.703> Washington.

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My<00:10:24.877> family<00:10:25.843> went<00:10:26.148> to<00:10:26.326> Bill<00:10:26.551> Gates'<00:10:27.034> wedding.

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I<00:10:27.517> think<00:10:27.774> we<00:10:28.000> were<00:10:28.644> one<00:10:28.740> of<00:10:28.901> two<00:10:29.127> families<00:10:29.690> of<00:10:29.787> kids<00:10:30.254> that<00:10:30.415> were<00:10:30.511> invited<00:10:31.010> to<00:10:31.155> Bill<00:10:31.316> Gates'<00:10:31.638> wedding,<00:10:31.960> flown<00:10:32.269> out<00:10:32.385> to<00:10:32.534> Hawaii.

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And<00:10:33.626> so<00:10:33.758> I<00:10:33.940> do<00:10:34.189> remember<00:10:34.852> like,<00:10:35.334> this<00:10:35.558> is<00:10:35.671> not<00:10:35.976> normal,<00:10:36.522> because<00:10:36.778> Bill<00:10:36.923> Gates<00:10:37.164> was<00:10:37.340> already<00:10:37.581> Bill<00:10:37.742> Gates<00:10:37.999> at<00:10:38.079> that<00:10:38.304> point.

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It<00:10:38.625> wasn't<00:10:38.930> like<00:10:39.171> he<00:10:39.251> was<00:10:39.363> this<00:10:39.668> up-and-coming<00:10:40.953> big<00:10:41.193> tech<00:10:41.434> executive.

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His<00:10:42.975> ascent<00:10:43.923> was<00:10:44.469> pretty<00:10:44.709> rapid<00:10:45.592> at<00:10:45.689> the<00:10:45.769> global<00:10:46.154> scale.

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And<00:10:47.134> so<00:10:47.278> I<00:10:47.439> do<00:10:47.535> remember<00:10:49.542> knowing<00:10:50.666> and<00:10:50.826> respecting<00:10:52.191> that<00:10:52.592> what<00:10:53.315> he<00:10:54.599> was<00:10:55.145> working<00:10:55.466> on<00:10:56.028> and<00:10:56.381> achieving<00:10:57.312> was<00:10:57.794> extraordinary<00:10:58.613> in<00:10:58.693> the<00:10:58.773> truest<00:10:59.207> sense.

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And<00:11:01.888> My<00:11:01.984> parents<00:11:02.225> did<00:11:02.386> a<00:11:02.466> good<00:11:02.610> job,<00:11:02.867> though,<00:11:02.931> of<00:11:03.253> being<00:11:03.574> pretty<00:11:03.750> blunt<00:11:04.071> with<00:11:04.296> us<00:11:04.858> of,<00:11:05.276> this<00:11:05.452> isn't<00:11:05.677> normal.

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Don't<00:11:06.319> let<00:11:06.416> it<00:11:06.480> get<00:11:06.640> to<00:11:06.705> your<00:11:06.865> heads.

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You<00:11:07.299> know,<00:11:07.507> kind<00:11:07.668> of<00:11:07.748> the,<00:11:08.390> the<00:11:08.471> talks<00:11:08.728> behind<00:11:09.129> the<00:11:09.209> scenes<00:11:09.595> to<00:11:09.755> your<00:11:09.996> kids<00:11:10.317> that<00:11:10.397> you<00:11:10.494> hope<00:11:10.831> to<00:11:11.457> try<00:11:11.553> to<00:11:11.682> figure<00:11:11.939> out<00:11:12.003> how<00:11:12.099> to<00:11:12.180> keep<00:11:12.340> them<00:11:12.501> grounded<00:11:12.998> and<00:11:13.063> not<00:11:13.223> turn<00:11:13.448> them<00:11:13.544> into<00:11:13.705> spoiled<00:11:14.090> brats.

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So<00:11:15.632> I<00:11:15.776> think<00:11:15.872> that's<00:11:16.178> just<00:11:16.579> part<00:11:16.756> of<00:11:16.836> trying<00:11:17.012> to<00:11:17.077> be<00:11:17.221> a<00:11:17.301> parent.

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But<00:11:18.281> yeah,<00:11:18.682> to<00:11:18.843> answer<00:11:19.148> your<00:11:19.244> question,<00:11:19.790> I<00:11:19.806> think<00:11:20.031> we<00:11:20.127> knew<00:11:20.368> that<00:11:20.609> what<00:11:20.834> he<00:11:20.914> was<00:11:21.075> working<00:11:21.396> on<00:11:21.717> was<00:11:22.359> pretty<00:11:22.536> crazy<00:11:22.921> at<00:11:23.017> the<00:11:23.049> time.

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As<00:11:24.783> a<00:11:24.864> kid,<00:11:25.827> given<00:11:26.228> who<00:11:26.469> your<00:11:26.630> father<00:11:27.031> was<00:11:27.256> and<00:11:27.352> what<00:11:27.577> he<00:11:27.657> was<00:11:27.770> doing<00:11:28.091> and<00:11:28.219> the<00:11:28.396> people<00:11:28.701> he<00:11:28.797> was<00:11:28.942> rubbing<00:11:29.263> shoulders<00:11:29.745> with,<00:11:31.093> Did<00:11:31.335> you<00:11:31.512> imagine<00:11:32.058> that<00:11:32.219> this<00:11:32.477> is<00:11:32.621> what<00:11:32.847> you<00:11:32.927> would<00:11:33.088> be<00:11:33.184> doing<00:11:33.812> as<00:11:33.924> a<00:11:33.989> career<00:11:34.375> too,<00:11:34.938> getting<00:11:35.259> into<00:11:35.581> tech,<00:11:35.935> building<00:11:36.240> companies?

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No,<00:11:40.085> I<00:11:40.326> like<00:11:40.520> to<00:11:40.665> think<00:11:40.826> that<00:11:41.052> my<00:11:41.230> path<00:11:41.875> was<00:11:42.601> this,<00:11:44.521> you<00:11:44.618> know,<00:11:44.860> crazy<00:11:45.409> rambling<00:11:45.828> path<00:11:46.151> that<00:11:46.312> ultimately<00:11:46.780> I<00:11:46.877> led<00:11:47.183> into<00:11:48.087> tech.

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But<00:11:48.878> as<00:11:49.120> I<00:11:49.281> get<00:11:49.604> older<00:11:49.862> and<00:11:49.959> as<00:11:50.185> I<00:11:50.897> just<00:11:51.059> get<00:11:51.156> to<00:11:51.253> know<00:11:51.479> more<00:11:51.722> people,<00:11:52.434> I<00:11:52.531> actually<00:11:52.773> think<00:11:52.935> my<00:11:53.097> story<00:11:53.501> is<00:11:53.647> a<00:11:53.727> little<00:11:53.889> more<00:11:54.002> similar<00:11:55.215> to<00:11:55.943> some<00:11:56.267> success<00:11:56.655> stories<00:11:57.221> than<00:11:57.383> just<00:11:57.706> this<00:11:57.949> direct,<00:11:58.515> immediately<00:11:59.166> injected<00:11:59.457> into,<00:11:59.549> you<00:11:59.603> know,<00:11:59.676> the<00:11:59.713> pipeline.

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Line<00:12:02.143> of<00:12:02.383> successful<00:12:02.946> companies.

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My<00:12:04.375> path<00:12:04.937> was,<00:12:05.596> I<00:12:05.676> love<00:12:05.837> animals.

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I<00:12:06.801> love<00:12:07.122> animals<00:12:07.523> more<00:12:07.684> than<00:12:07.845> I<00:12:07.925> love<00:12:08.086> people.

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I'm<00:12:09.049> naturally<00:12:09.692> very<00:12:10.077> introverted.

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As<00:12:11.137> a<00:12:11.202> CEO,<00:12:11.700> I<00:12:11.764> can<00:12:11.925> turn<00:12:12.101> it<00:12:12.246> on<00:12:12.888> and<00:12:13.290> I<00:12:13.322> can<00:12:13.932> tell<00:12:14.093> stories<00:12:14.751> and<00:12:14.832> I<00:12:15.057> love<00:12:15.249> it<00:12:15.314> and<00:12:15.490> I<00:12:15.635> love<00:12:15.876> working<00:12:16.261> with<00:12:16.422> people<00:12:16.759> and<00:12:16.904> I<00:12:17.000> love<00:12:17.787> kind<00:12:17.900> of<00:12:18.028> that<00:12:18.205> part<00:12:18.446> of<00:12:18.606> my<00:12:18.751> life.

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But<00:12:19.490> being<00:12:19.650> around<00:12:20.036> people<00:12:21.000> absolutely<00:12:21.883> just<00:12:22.285> takes<00:12:22.767> energy<00:12:23.184> out<00:12:23.409> of<00:12:23.570> me,<00:12:23.746> right?

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It's,<00:12:25.031> my<00:12:25.112> ideal<00:12:25.658> weekend<00:12:26.091> is<00:12:26.316> some<00:12:26.798> time<00:12:26.959> with<00:12:27.103> my<00:12:27.264> wife<00:12:27.505> and<00:12:27.601> kids<00:12:28.067> and<00:12:28.806> just<00:12:28.967> kind<00:12:29.111> of<00:12:29.143> being<00:12:29.368> quiet,<00:12:29.914> you<00:12:29.946> know?

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Um,<00:12:31.692> and,<00:12:32.177> uh,<00:12:33.892> so<00:12:34.216> I,<00:12:34.928> I,<00:12:36.141> I<00:12:36.319> always<00:12:36.708> believed<00:12:37.209> that<00:12:37.371> I<00:12:37.533> was<00:12:37.695> going<00:12:37.921> to<00:12:38.018> be<00:12:38.164> a<00:12:38.245> wildlife<00:12:38.746> biologist.

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As<00:12:40.159> a<00:12:40.175> freshman<00:12:40.642> in<00:12:40.722> college<00:12:41.221> that<00:12:41.318> summer,<00:12:41.769> I<00:12:41.930> went<00:12:42.010> and<00:12:42.188> worked<00:12:42.445> in<00:12:42.574> Africa<00:12:43.798> with<00:12:43.975> a<00:12:44.184> world-renowned<00:12:44.989> elephant<00:12:46.052> conservationist<00:12:46.922> named<00:12:47.083> Joyce<00:12:47.421> Poole.

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After<00:12:48.790> I<00:12:48.806> served<00:12:49.080> a<00:12:49.128> Mormon<00:12:49.434> mission,<00:12:49.820> I<00:12:49.917> went<00:12:50.078> and<00:12:50.158> did<00:12:50.319> some<00:12:50.545> more.

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I<00:12:50.947> got<00:12:51.124> my<00:12:51.269> degree<00:12:51.704> in<00:12:51.833> environmental<00:12:52.267> sciences.

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I<00:12:53.378> believed<00:12:53.845> I<00:12:53.861> was<00:12:54.087> going<00:12:54.183> to<00:12:54.264> go<00:12:55.616> get<00:12:55.874> graduate<00:12:56.341> degrees<00:12:56.840> in<00:12:56.921> wildlife<00:12:57.404> biology<00:12:58.128> and<00:12:58.354> then<00:12:58.515> go<00:12:58.660> spend<00:12:58.865> my<00:12:58.899> time,<00:12:59.019> you<00:12:59.053> know,<00:12:59.156> saving<00:12:59.258> the<00:12:59.344> whales<00:12:59.447> and<00:12:59.498> saving<00:12:59.806> the<00:12:59.874> elephants<00:13:00.080> and<00:13:02.152> working<00:13:02.472> with<00:13:02.617> them.

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But<00:13:04.942> I<00:13:05.343> had<00:13:05.696> children<00:13:06.177> at<00:13:06.321> a<00:13:06.385> very<00:13:06.642> young<00:13:06.962> age<00:13:07.748> and<00:13:08.229> I<00:13:08.470> had<00:13:09.272> at<00:13:09.432> one<00:13:09.673> point<00:13:09.753> in<00:13:09.993> one<00:13:10.106> of<00:13:10.154> my<00:13:10.330> trips<00:13:10.571> to<00:13:10.715> Africa,<00:13:11.677> I<00:13:11.934> left<00:13:12.319> my<00:13:12.736> wife<00:13:13.136> with<00:13:13.297> an<00:13:13.682> 8-month-old<00:13:14.564> and<00:13:14.981> I<00:13:15.141> believe<00:13:15.847> pregnant<00:13:16.344> with<00:13:16.584> a<00:13:16.600> second<00:13:17.290> at<00:13:17.386> that<00:13:17.707> point.

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And<00:13:18.092> we<00:13:18.172> have<00:13:18.348> 3<00:13:18.509> kids.

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So,<00:13:19.310> like,<00:13:19.471> we<00:13:19.551> had<00:13:19.711> kids<00:13:20.096> really<00:13:20.593> early<00:13:20.818> and<00:13:20.978> really<00:13:21.219> young<00:13:22.261> and<00:13:22.774> it<00:13:22.903> all<00:13:22.999> felt<00:13:23.384> unfair<00:13:24.121> and<00:13:24.218> it<00:13:24.346> all<00:13:24.442> felt<00:13:24.747> very<00:13:24.939> selfish<00:13:25.484> to<00:13:25.581> me.

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It<00:13:26.591> all<00:13:26.687> felt<00:13:26.928> unfair<00:13:27.329> that<00:13:27.489> I<00:13:27.649> was<00:13:27.890> leaving<00:13:28.291> her.

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And<00:13:29.092> my<00:13:29.317> kids,<00:13:29.654> and<00:13:29.798> I<00:13:30.118> wasn't<00:13:30.519> there,<00:13:31.417> um,<00:13:32.218> when,<00:13:32.539> when<00:13:32.699> they<00:13:32.844> were<00:13:33.004> young.

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And<00:13:33.501> so<00:13:34.142> that's<00:13:34.382> where<00:13:34.527> I<00:13:34.687> had<00:13:34.847> to<00:13:34.943> abandon,<00:13:36.050> uh,<00:13:37.027> that<00:13:37.348> career<00:13:37.893> path.

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And,<00:13:38.951> and<00:13:39.111> then<00:13:39.656> from<00:13:39.817> there<00:13:39.993> started<00:13:40.618> what<00:13:41.179> I,<00:13:41.660> I<00:13:41.820> felt<00:13:41.981> like<00:13:42.141> again<00:13:42.397> was<00:13:42.718> going<00:13:42.894> to<00:13:42.959> be<00:13:43.055> a<00:13:43.119> direct<00:13:43.504> route<00:13:43.664> in<00:13:43.840> towards<00:13:44.081> wildlife<00:13:44.481> biology,<00:13:45.684> jumping<00:13:45.988> around<00:13:46.309> all<00:13:46.405> over<00:13:46.533> the<00:13:46.710> place.

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I<00:13:47.351> dropped<00:13:47.559> out<00:13:47.607> of<00:13:47.687> law<00:13:47.864> school,<00:13:48.152> I<00:13:48.248> dropped<00:13:48.553> out<00:13:48.649> of<00:13:48.729> an<00:13:48.890> MBA<00:13:49.290> program,<00:13:49.787> each<00:13:49.996> after<00:13:50.268> a<00:13:50.413> year<00:13:50.637> in<00:13:50.797> each<00:13:51.054> two<00:13:51.230> separate<00:13:51.535> programs.

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I<00:13:52.817> joined<00:13:53.442> a<00:13:53.538> commercial<00:13:54.099> real<00:13:54.340> estate<00:13:54.741> fund,<00:13:55.927> which<00:13:56.167> was<00:13:56.648> easily<00:13:56.985> the<00:13:57.065> most<00:13:57.306> boring<00:13:57.626> job<00:13:57.802> I've<00:13:57.947> ever<00:13:58.171> had<00:13:58.283> in<00:13:58.331> my<00:13:58.492> life,<00:13:58.812> but<00:13:58.909> then<00:13:59.021> totally<00:13:59.470> formative<00:14:00.031> now<00:14:00.255> that<00:14:00.592> back<00:14:00.849> on<00:14:01.154> it<00:14:01.636> to<00:14:01.797> the<00:14:01.877> skills<00:14:02.504> that<00:14:03.227> I've<00:14:04.673> achieved<00:14:06.360> from<00:14:07.082> a<00:14:07.340> literal<00:14:07.821> underwriting<00:14:08.384> perspective<00:14:08.930> because<00:14:09.187> we're<00:14:09.428> underwriting<00:14:09.894> assets<00:14:10.312> that<00:14:10.457> we're<00:14:10.619> trying<00:14:10.862> to<00:14:10.959> invest<00:14:11.428> in,<00:14:12.334> to<00:14:12.739> understanding<00:14:13.208> contracts,<00:14:13.872> to<00:14:14.583> really<00:14:16.768> utilizing<00:14:17.496> contracts<00:14:18.224> to,<00:14:18.321> I<00:14:18.564> don't<00:14:19.017> know,<00:14:19.146> from<00:14:19.260> a<00:14:19.292> competitive<00:14:19.777> advantage<00:14:20.407> and<00:14:20.649> leverage.

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And<00:14:21.619> so,<00:14:21.700> I<00:14:21.716> was<00:14:21.877> bored<00:14:22.120> out<00:14:22.217> of<00:14:22.265> my<00:14:22.362> mind<00:14:22.685> during<00:14:22.928> that,<00:14:23.881> but<00:14:24.059> man,<00:14:24.301> that<00:14:24.463> ended<00:14:24.689> up<00:14:24.770> being<00:14:24.948> important.

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And<00:14:26.161> then<00:14:26.274> I—.

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Well,<00:14:26.582> that<00:14:26.631> makes<00:14:26.842> sense<00:14:27.166> why<00:14:27.410> you<00:14:27.572> dropped<00:14:27.961> out<00:14:28.059> of<00:14:28.140> law<00:14:28.318> school.

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That<00:14:29.178> would've<00:14:29.356> been<00:14:29.519> your<00:14:29.681> most<00:14:30.005> boring<00:14:30.330> job.

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Had<00:14:31.377> you<00:14:31.489> stayed<00:14:31.954> in<00:14:32.131> law<00:14:32.451> school<00:14:32.756> and<00:14:32.836> become<00:14:33.157> a<00:14:33.173> lawyer?

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I<00:14:36.186> was<00:14:36.443> bored<00:14:36.667> out<00:14:36.763> of<00:14:36.795> my<00:14:36.859> mind.

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Hey,<00:14:37.869> actually,<00:14:38.110> if<00:14:38.190> you<00:14:38.270> want<00:14:38.366> to<00:14:38.430> go<00:14:38.527> down<00:14:38.703> a<00:14:38.767> tangent,<00:14:39.248> I<00:14:39.312> went<00:14:39.472> to<00:14:39.553> law<00:14:39.745> school<00:14:39.969> with<00:14:40.210> a<00:14:40.274> very<00:14:40.466> strategic<00:14:41.749> and<00:14:41.893> different<00:14:42.598> motive,<00:14:42.999> and<00:14:43.079> I've<00:14:43.175> never<00:14:43.352> spoken<00:14:43.656> publicly<00:14:44.121> about<00:14:44.297> it.

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Those<00:14:45.163> that<00:14:45.275> know<00:14:45.500> me<00:14:45.660> know<00:14:46.462> kind<00:14:46.606> of<00:14:46.638> the<00:14:46.766> whole<00:14:46.878> story<00:14:47.183> behind<00:14:47.487> the<00:14:47.568> scenes<00:14:47.888> because<00:14:48.145> it<00:14:48.193> was<00:14:48.369> just<00:14:48.529> crazy<00:14:48.850> how<00:14:49.026> it<00:14:49.107> unfolded.

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But<00:14:50.710> I<00:14:50.854> went<00:14:51.014> to<00:14:51.094> law<00:14:51.271> school<00:14:51.671> to<00:14:52.056> get<00:14:52.313> recruited<00:14:52.793> by<00:14:52.954> the<00:14:53.050> CIA.

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My<00:14:54.877> goal<00:14:55.503> was<00:14:55.823> that<00:14:56.304> I<00:14:56.400> would<00:14:56.545> be<00:14:56.641> able<00:14:56.753> to<00:14:56.881> check<00:14:57.186> that<00:14:57.362> box<00:14:58.308> and<00:14:58.548> that<00:14:59.125> was<00:14:59.286> kind<00:14:59.430> of<00:14:59.510> the<00:14:59.670> last<00:15:00.007> box<00:15:00.328> I<00:15:00.344> needed<00:15:01.033> that<00:15:01.209> they<00:15:01.354> would<00:15:01.450> notice.

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And<00:15:02.655> I<00:15:02.881> would<00:15:02.978> get<00:15:03.221> recruited,<00:15:03.949> and<00:15:04.094> I<00:15:04.192> did.

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So<00:15:04.920> I<00:15:05.146> did<00:15:05.308> get<00:15:05.470> recruited<00:15:05.890> by<00:15:05.971> the<00:15:06.068> CIA,<00:15:07.087> and<00:15:07.249> which<00:15:07.427> was<00:15:07.686> a<00:15:07.977> dream<00:15:08.333> scenario,<00:15:09.045> a<00:15:09.191> process<00:15:09.692> of<00:15:09.773> about<00:15:10.889> 8<00:15:11.003> or<00:15:11.084> 9<00:15:11.440> months.

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And<00:15:12.741> I<00:15:13.143> was<00:15:13.303> recruited,<00:15:13.785> it<00:15:14.123> was<00:15:14.460> through<00:15:14.910> the,<00:15:17.079> the<00:15:17.336> job<00:15:17.641> that<00:15:17.802> I<00:15:17.898> wanted<00:15:18.139> was<00:15:18.300> to<00:15:18.380> become<00:15:18.621> an<00:15:18.701> operations<00:15:19.328> officer,<00:15:20.212> and<00:15:20.533> that<00:15:20.710> is<00:15:20.886> through<00:15:21.160> the<00:15:21.353> clandestine<00:15:21.933> services.

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Right,<00:15:23.189> right.

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So<00:15:23.446> that<00:15:23.752> is<00:15:24.397> where<00:15:24.638> you're<00:15:24.976> over<00:15:25.202> in<00:15:25.444> foreign<00:15:25.621> countries<00:15:26.168> and<00:15:26.265> you're,<00:15:26.812> you<00:15:26.845> know,<00:15:28.973> Essentially<00:15:29.454> a<00:15:29.470> spy.

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You're<00:15:30.576> posing<00:15:31.121> as<00:15:31.361> a<00:15:31.377> different<00:15:31.778> career<00:15:32.644> and<00:15:32.740> then<00:15:32.900> you're<00:15:33.285> working<00:15:33.557> as<00:15:33.638> a<00:15:33.702> spy.

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And<00:15:34.407> that<00:15:34.567> was<00:15:34.744> my<00:15:35.449> absolute<00:15:35.946> goal<00:15:36.122> of<00:15:36.250> my<00:15:36.427> life.

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Like,<00:15:37.693> truly,<00:15:38.270> like,<00:15:38.511> if<00:15:38.655> you<00:15:38.815> ask,<00:15:39.056> like,<00:15:39.232> that<00:15:39.473> was<00:15:39.713> more<00:15:39.873> than<00:15:40.114> animals.

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And<00:15:41.092> so<00:15:41.156> I<00:15:41.300> did.

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I<00:15:41.637> actually<00:15:41.957> got<00:15:42.182> recruited<00:15:42.823> and<00:15:42.919> that<00:15:43.079> was<00:15:43.240> just—.

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Wait,<00:15:43.656> wait,<00:15:43.801> wait,<00:15:43.945> wait,<00:15:44.041> wait.

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Really<00:15:44.923> thrilling,<00:15:45.548> exciting<00:15:45.949> period.

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So<00:15:47.632> why?

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Why<00:15:48.770> was<00:15:49.010> that<00:15:49.876> what<00:15:50.036> you<00:15:50.197> wanted<00:15:50.373> to<00:15:50.453> do?

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That's<00:15:51.094> fascinating.

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You<00:15:53.419> were<00:15:53.563> going<00:15:53.739> to<00:15:53.819> law<00:15:53.980> school<00:15:54.300> specifically<00:15:55.246> to<00:15:55.358> get<00:15:55.503> recruited<00:15:55.823> by<00:15:55.968> the<00:15:56.000> CIA.

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That<00:15:57.250> was<00:15:57.362> your<00:15:57.506> goal.

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You<00:15:57.827> actually<00:15:58.148> did<00:15:58.292> get<00:15:58.452> recruited<00:15:58.853> by<00:15:58.949> the<00:15:59.045> CIA,<00:15:59.991> but<00:16:00.135> why<00:16:00.200> Why<00:16:00.393> was<00:16:00.699> that<00:16:01.343> what<00:16:02.390> you<00:16:02.712> wanted<00:16:03.050> to<00:16:03.453> do?

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What<00:16:04.242> about<00:16:04.822> that<00:16:06.658> excited<00:16:07.238> you<00:16:07.705> and<00:16:07.802> got<00:16:08.028> you<00:16:08.124> fired<00:16:08.591> up<00:16:08.833> and<00:16:08.994> made<00:16:09.318> you—<00:16:10.153> I<00:16:10.219> mean,<00:16:10.382> you<00:16:10.481> went<00:16:10.645> to<00:16:10.792> law<00:16:10.972> school<00:16:11.463> for<00:16:11.611> that.

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Like,<00:16:12.102> law<00:16:12.217> school<00:16:12.446> sucks,<00:16:13.282> dude.

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Law<00:16:15.425> school<00:16:15.958> sucked.

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It<00:16:16.573> was<00:16:16.673> terrible.

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I<00:16:21.137> love<00:16:21.378> this<00:16:21.619> country<00:16:22.729> a<00:16:23.710> bizarre<00:16:24.193> amount<00:16:25.463> with<00:16:26.364> a<00:16:26.509> passion<00:16:27.249> that<00:16:28.939> Like<00:16:29.357> talking<00:16:29.694> about<00:16:29.919> it<00:16:30.063> for<00:16:30.224> 30<00:16:30.465> more<00:16:30.577> seconds,<00:16:31.011> I'll<00:16:31.139> start<00:16:31.364> getting<00:16:31.621> emotional<00:16:32.070> about<00:16:32.392> it.

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And<00:16:33.467> it's,<00:16:34.077> it<00:16:34.254> was<00:16:34.591> a<00:16:34.800> way<00:16:35.298> that<00:16:35.603> I<00:16:35.699> felt<00:16:36.020> like<00:16:36.422> I<00:16:36.502> could<00:16:36.679> serve<00:16:37.786> and<00:16:38.011> use<00:16:38.509> the<00:16:38.573> skills<00:16:39.071> that<00:16:39.231> I<00:16:39.392> have<00:16:40.998> to<00:16:41.222> be<00:16:41.624> meaningful<00:16:42.507> and<00:16:43.085> to<00:16:43.181> truly<00:16:43.567> be<00:16:43.727> an<00:16:43.952> asset<00:16:44.289> to<00:16:44.450> the<00:16:44.530> country.

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From<00:16:47.179> language<00:16:47.581> capabilities<00:16:48.624> to<00:16:49.732> my<00:16:49.828> persuasive<00:16:50.471> capabilities<00:16:52.478> to<00:16:53.056> some<00:16:53.906> other<00:16:54.227> elements,<00:16:54.789> you<00:16:54.885> know,<00:16:55.110> that<00:16:55.350> are<00:16:55.687> just<00:16:55.928> part<00:16:56.089> of<00:16:56.233> that<00:16:56.409> job<00:16:56.730> that<00:16:56.795> I<00:16:56.971> felt<00:16:57.131> like<00:16:57.356> I<00:16:57.372> would've<00:16:57.613> been<00:16:57.934> really,<00:16:58.255> really<00:16:58.479> good<00:16:58.656> at.

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And<00:16:59.554> service<00:17:00.485> is<00:17:00.902> something<00:17:01.303> that's<00:17:01.464> important<00:17:01.929> to<00:17:02.025> me.

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And<00:17:02.202> it's<00:17:02.330> something<00:17:02.587> that<00:17:02.747> I<00:17:02.892> wanted<00:17:03.148> to<00:17:03.309> give<00:17:04.191> in<00:17:04.271> perpetuity<00:17:04.993> to<00:17:05.138> the<00:17:05.234> country.

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Anyway,<00:17:07.561> long<00:17:07.737> story<00:17:08.042> short,<00:17:08.828> I<00:17:09.005> got<00:17:09.181> to<00:17:09.261> the<00:17:09.342> last<00:17:09.711> step,<00:17:09.967> which<00:17:10.208> is<00:17:10.449> getting<00:17:10.850> your<00:17:11.315> conditional<00:17:12.117> offer<00:17:12.358> of<00:17:12.454> employment<00:17:12.920> after<00:17:13.241> you<00:17:13.337> passed<00:17:13.722> all<00:17:13.834> these<00:17:14.059> checks.

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You<00:17:15.022> know,<00:17:15.487> you<00:17:15.647> get<00:17:15.984> kind<00:17:16.161> of<00:17:16.289> your<00:17:16.450> assignment<00:17:17.011> of<00:17:17.188> a<00:17:17.412> hardship<00:17:17.829> tour<00:17:18.070> of<00:17:18.295> duty,<00:17:18.551> which<00:17:18.712> is<00:17:18.856> going<00:17:19.033> to<00:17:19.193> kind<00:17:19.354> of<00:17:19.434> a<00:17:19.578> wartime<00:17:20.012> area.

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And<00:17:21.263> I<00:17:21.279> never<00:17:21.504> heard<00:17:21.664> from<00:17:21.760> them<00:17:21.937> again.

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And<00:17:22.755> my<00:17:22.948> heart<00:17:23.189> was<00:17:23.365> totally,<00:17:23.766> totally<00:17:24.151> broken<00:17:24.873> after<00:17:25.275> 8<00:17:25.371> or<00:17:25.403> 9<00:17:25.676> months<00:17:25.997> of<00:17:26.093> going<00:17:26.334> through<00:17:26.558> all<00:17:26.735> the<00:17:27.361> jumping<00:17:27.617> through<00:17:27.778> the<00:17:27.922> hoops<00:17:28.179> and<00:17:28.323> meeting<00:17:28.564> with<00:17:28.660> them<00:17:28.837> and<00:17:28.997> flying<00:17:29.366> all<00:17:29.463> over<00:17:29.623> the<00:17:29.719> place<00:17:30.008> to<00:17:30.088> meet<00:17:30.265> with<00:17:30.345> them<00:17:30.506> and<00:17:30.602> interviews<00:17:31.147> and<00:17:31.228> all<00:17:31.308> this<00:17:31.468> kind<00:17:31.613> of<00:17:31.645> stuff<00:17:31.934> and<00:17:32.014> assessment<00:17:32.543> tests.

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And<00:17:33.490> I<00:17:33.506> never<00:17:33.779> heard<00:17:33.891> from<00:17:34.020> them<00:17:34.196> again.

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So<00:17:34.501> obviously,<00:17:34.982> I<00:17:34.998> didn't<00:17:35.223> get<00:17:35.319> selected.

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And<00:17:36.667> that<00:17:36.908> was<00:17:37.389> pretty<00:17:37.566> devastating.

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That<00:17:38.288> was<00:17:38.432> like<00:17:38.834> right<00:17:39.026> smack<00:17:39.491> dab<00:17:40.197> during<00:17:40.695> a,<00:17:41.481> you<00:17:41.513> know,<00:17:41.658> trying<00:17:41.979> to<00:17:42.283> have<00:17:42.396> a<00:17:42.524> plan<00:17:42.925> B,<00:17:43.182> C,<00:17:43.503> and<00:17:43.663> D<00:17:44.145> from<00:17:44.305> providing<00:17:44.706> for<00:17:44.835> my<00:17:45.188> family<00:17:45.589> and<00:17:45.830> these<00:17:46.311> investment<00:17:46.776> real<00:17:46.953> estate<00:17:47.274> funds<00:17:47.514> and<00:17:47.595> all<00:17:47.691> that<00:17:47.900> kind<00:17:47.996> of<00:17:48.060> stuff.

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But<00:17:49.023> I<00:17:49.039> came<00:17:49.199> back<00:17:49.440> to<00:17:49.584> Utah.

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My<00:17:50.803> cousin<00:17:51.124> Brandon<00:17:51.444> Rodman<00:17:52.310> is<00:17:52.502> the<00:17:52.582> CEO,<00:17:53.368> or<00:17:53.512> was<00:17:53.688> the<00:17:53.769> CEO,<00:17:54.250> of<00:17:54.506> a<00:17:54.570> company<00:17:54.955> called<00:17:55.195> Weave<00:17:55.596> here<00:17:55.788> in<00:17:55.933> Utah,<00:17:56.654> and<00:17:56.734> it<00:17:56.798> was<00:17:56.975> tiny<00:17:57.456> at<00:17:57.536> that<00:17:57.760> point.

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And<00:17:58.481> he<00:17:58.642> gave<00:17:58.882> me<00:17:58.978> an<00:17:59.043> opportunity<00:17:59.940> to<00:18:00.261> invest<00:18:00.581> some<00:18:00.726> money<00:18:01.046> into<00:18:01.287> the<00:18:01.383> business<00:18:02.329> and<00:18:02.569> then<00:18:02.746> to<00:18:02.826> come<00:18:03.002> and<00:18:03.146> work<00:18:03.451> there.

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And<00:18:03.932> that's<00:18:04.172> where<00:18:04.268> I<00:18:04.429> cut<00:18:04.669> my<00:18:04.829> teeth,<00:18:05.150> then<00:18:05.855> really<00:18:06.096> cut<00:18:06.272> my<00:18:06.432> teeth<00:18:06.897> in<00:18:07.154> the<00:18:07.234> tech<00:18:07.539> ecosystem<00:18:08.180> here<00:18:08.276> in<00:18:08.436> Utah.

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And,<00:18:09.783> and<00:18:09.879> so<00:18:10.119> it<00:18:10.280> was<00:18:10.440> a<00:18:10.761> much<00:18:11.947> more<00:18:12.123> winding<00:18:13.406> and<00:18:13.566> less<00:18:13.806> direct<00:18:14.127> path<00:18:14.431> into<00:18:14.608> technology,<00:18:15.409> but,<00:18:15.714> uh,<00:18:16.115> that's<00:18:16.997> once<00:18:17.173> I<00:18:17.254> got<00:18:17.494> back<00:18:17.735> here<00:18:18.521> into<00:18:18.778> Weave<00:18:19.821> is<00:18:20.704> where<00:18:20.848> I<00:18:20.945> started<00:18:21.266> to<00:18:21.330> get<00:18:21.426> back<00:18:21.667> into<00:18:21.827> tech.

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And<00:18:23.368> at<00:18:23.496> what<00:18:23.673> point<00:18:23.914> do<00:18:23.978> you<00:18:24.090> start—.

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Long<00:18:24.636> answer<00:18:24.957> to<00:18:25.101> a<00:18:25.117> short<00:18:25.358> question.

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That<00:18:26.224> was<00:18:26.481> wonderful,<00:18:26.834> man.

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At<00:18:28.247> what<00:18:28.471> point<00:18:28.728> do<00:18:28.872> you<00:18:28.985> start<00:18:30.397> thinking<00:18:30.718> about<00:18:31.055> Divi<00:18:32.564> and<00:18:33.125> this<00:18:33.366> idea<00:18:34.570> that<00:18:35.147> really<00:18:35.388> was<00:18:35.548> revolutionary?

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And<00:18:36.576> we're<00:18:36.816> going<00:18:36.913> to<00:18:36.977> talk<00:18:37.137> about<00:18:37.314> fintech,<00:18:37.779> the<00:18:37.859> future<00:18:38.196> fintech,<00:18:38.662> all<00:18:38.903> that<00:18:38.967> type<00:18:39.015> of<00:18:39.079> stuff.

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But<00:18:39.785> fintech<00:18:40.283> wasn't<00:18:40.604> what<00:18:40.764> it<00:18:40.909> was<00:18:42.690> now.

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Where<00:18:44.197> fintech<00:18:44.534> is<00:18:44.566> just<00:18:44.839> exploding.

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When,<00:18:45.656> when<00:18:45.800> you<00:18:45.897> started<00:18:46.201> Divi,<00:18:46.442> or<00:18:46.522> when<00:18:46.618> you<00:18:46.762> were<00:18:46.922> thinking<00:18:47.195> about,<00:18:47.596> about<00:18:48.125> Divi,<00:18:48.365> it<00:18:48.461> wasn't<00:18:48.846> a<00:18:48.942> proven<00:18:50.064> industry,<00:18:50.529> or<00:18:50.561> at<00:18:50.690> least<00:18:50.866> a<00:18:50.930> subset<00:18:51.587> of<00:18:51.972> the<00:18:52.068> overall<00:18:52.549> technology<00:18:53.030> industry.

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At<00:18:53.912> what<00:18:54.136> point<00:18:54.633> during<00:18:55.034> all<00:18:55.290> of<00:18:55.434> this—<00:18:55.915> right,<00:18:57.102> and<00:18:57.182> there,<00:18:57.422> I<00:18:57.438> mean,<00:18:57.583> there<00:18:57.743> is<00:18:57.791> some<00:18:58.063> fintech<00:18:58.496> inside<00:18:58.961> of<00:18:59.202> Weave<00:19:00.067> now<00:19:00.420> in<00:19:00.548> particular.

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I'm<00:19:01.125> not<00:19:01.285> sure<00:19:01.510> that<00:19:01.606> that<00:19:01.766> was<00:19:01.911> a<00:19:02.007> big<00:19:02.247> piece<00:19:02.552> of<00:19:02.648> it<00:19:02.872> even<00:19:03.049> back<00:19:03.289> then,<00:19:03.450> but,<00:19:03.930> but<00:19:04.091> Weave<00:19:04.395> I<00:19:04.475> would<00:19:04.572> even<00:19:04.796> consider<00:19:05.694> a<00:19:05.774> fintech<00:19:06.239> company<00:19:06.640> at<00:19:06.736> this<00:19:06.960> point.

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Um,<00:19:08.403> and<00:19:08.499> people<00:19:08.739> can—<00:19:08.900> we'll<00:19:09.301> probably<00:19:09.541> have<00:19:09.685> Brandon<00:19:10.086> on<00:19:10.262> this<00:19:10.423> show<00:19:10.727> and<00:19:10.807> people<00:19:11.048> can<00:19:11.304> learn<00:19:11.465> about<00:19:11.689> what<00:19:11.849> Weave<00:19:12.122> is<00:19:12.827> and<00:19:12.907> what<00:19:13.068> they<00:19:13.228> do.

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But<00:19:13.645> at<00:19:13.773> what<00:19:13.869> point<00:19:14.174> were<00:19:14.254> you<00:19:14.414> thinking<00:19:14.831> about<00:19:15.758> Divi<00:19:16.171> and<00:19:16.254> I<00:19:16.402> want<00:19:16.551> to<00:19:16.832> branch<00:19:17.229> out<00:19:17.394> and<00:19:17.576> do<00:19:17.675> something<00:19:17.989> on<00:19:18.022> my<00:19:18.237> own.

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So<00:19:21.158> it<00:19:21.255> was<00:19:22.776> February,<00:19:23.747> end<00:19:23.909> of<00:19:24.006> January,<00:19:24.556> beginning<00:19:24.896> of<00:19:24.977> February<00:19:25.559> of<00:19:25.688> 2016.

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I<00:19:27.242> had<00:19:27.970> left<00:19:28.455> Weave<00:19:28.859> a<00:19:28.940> few<00:19:29.248> years<00:19:29.507> earlier<00:19:30.623> and<00:19:30.882> I<00:19:31.190> had<00:19:32.096> started<00:19:33.294> as<00:19:33.698> a<00:19:34.055> franchisor,<00:19:35.252> so<00:19:35.576> owning<00:19:35.884> a<00:19:35.900> bunch<00:19:36.159> of<00:19:36.223> territories,<00:19:37.660> Idaho,<00:19:38.096> Utah,<00:19:38.403> and<00:19:38.888> they<00:19:38.985> had<00:19:39.130> some<00:19:39.227> pieces<00:19:39.777> of<00:19:40.019> Colorado<00:19:40.698> or<00:19:40.844> something<00:19:41.167> like<00:19:41.393> that.

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Of<00:19:42.860> a<00:19:44.386> pizza<00:19:44.820> fast<00:19:45.286> casual<00:19:45.848> franchise,<00:19:46.426> similar<00:19:46.812> to<00:19:46.956> kind<00:19:47.069> of<00:19:47.117> like<00:19:47.358> Blaze<00:19:47.775> Pizza.

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And<00:19:49.141> they<00:19:49.237> sold<00:19:49.623> me<00:19:49.783> hard.

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And<00:19:50.570> I<00:19:50.651> had<00:19:50.811> a<00:19:50.908> chance<00:19:51.309> with<00:19:51.470> the<00:19:51.952> group<00:19:52.257> that<00:19:52.434> did<00:19:52.578> the<00:19:52.659> Series<00:19:53.221> A<00:19:53.317> of<00:19:53.397> that<00:19:53.558> investment<00:19:54.763> to<00:19:55.309> kind<00:19:55.405> of<00:19:55.469> participate<00:19:56.369> and<00:19:56.546> to<00:19:57.333> kind<00:19:57.493> of<00:19:57.638> own<00:19:57.799> some<00:19:57.975> of<00:19:58.007> these<00:19:58.200> territories.

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And<00:19:58.875> so<00:19:59.084> here<00:19:59.260> I<00:19:59.341> was<00:19:59.582> pretty<00:19:59.806> young<00:20:00.465> thinking<00:20:00.706> that<00:20:01.107> that<00:20:01.332> would<00:20:01.429> be<00:20:01.750> incredible<00:20:02.232> passive<00:20:02.858> income<00:20:03.180> for<00:20:03.308> my<00:20:03.437> family,<00:20:03.902> right?

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Because<00:20:04.706> everybody<00:20:05.107> looks<00:20:05.284> at<00:20:05.348> franchises<00:20:06.167> and<00:20:06.248> thinks<00:20:06.505> that<00:20:06.649> they<00:20:06.810> all<00:20:07.035> work<00:20:07.757> and<00:20:08.319> that<00:20:08.480> they<00:20:08.576> print<00:20:08.897> money.

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And<00:20:10.358> so<00:20:10.518> we<00:20:10.663> pulled<00:20:10.807> the<00:20:10.888> trigger<00:20:11.129> and<00:20:11.289> we<00:20:11.385> did<00:20:11.562> it,<00:20:11.931> and<00:20:12.012> they<00:20:12.108> ended<00:20:12.349> up<00:20:12.429> being<00:20:12.589> the<00:20:12.670> single<00:20:12.975> worst<00:20:13.232> investments<00:20:13.777> that<00:20:13.874> I've<00:20:13.954> ever<00:20:14.131> made<00:20:14.339> in<00:20:14.371> my<00:20:14.516> life,<00:20:15.945> where<00:20:16.507> it's<00:20:16.908> the—<00:20:17.807> probably<00:20:18.112> just<00:20:18.208> because<00:20:18.529> I<00:20:18.594> was<00:20:18.706> naive<00:20:19.027> about<00:20:19.252> the<00:20:19.332> restaurant<00:20:19.734> industry,<00:20:20.600> but<00:20:20.777> also<00:20:21.018> top-down,<00:20:21.901> they<00:20:22.061> weren't<00:20:22.382> organizationally<00:20:23.105> ready<00:20:23.346> to<00:20:23.506> grow<00:20:23.827> as<00:20:23.988> fast<00:20:24.245> as<00:20:24.389> they<00:20:24.534> wanted<00:20:24.871> to.

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And<00:20:25.754> as<00:20:25.979> a<00:20:26.219> franchisor,<00:20:27.102> you<00:20:27.134> don't<00:20:27.263> have<00:20:27.375> any<00:20:27.520> control<00:20:27.921> over<00:20:28.146> that.

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You're<00:20:28.788> just<00:20:29.109> up<00:20:29.350> to<00:20:29.607> kind<00:20:29.767> of<00:20:29.832> whatever<00:20:30.249> the<00:20:30.329> broader<00:20:30.714> company<00:20:31.116> is<00:20:31.292> doing.

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But<00:20:33.058> they<00:20:33.363> were<00:20:34.406> insolvent.

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They<00:20:35.224> were<00:20:35.384> a<00:20:35.448> financial<00:20:35.945> mess,<00:20:36.426> the<00:20:36.683> businesses.

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And<00:20:37.388> so<00:20:37.548> again,<00:20:37.869> what<00:20:38.013> was<00:20:38.109> supposed<00:20:38.446> to<00:20:38.574> be<00:20:38.735> a<00:20:38.767> side<00:20:39.135> project,<00:20:40.177> uh,<00:20:40.354> for<00:20:40.498> me,<00:20:40.851> I<00:20:40.979> had<00:20:41.171> to<00:20:41.316> dive<00:20:41.780> in<00:20:41.941> headfirst<00:20:42.582> to<00:20:42.678> all<00:20:42.822> of<00:20:42.919> a<00:20:42.935> sudden<00:20:43.175> save<00:20:43.544> this<00:20:44.522> and<00:20:44.666> to<00:20:44.762> fix<00:20:45.868> each<00:20:46.045> one<00:20:46.205> of<00:20:46.269> the<00:20:46.365> individual<00:20:46.910> units.

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And<00:20:47.407> then<00:20:47.648> the<00:20:47.952> broader<00:20:48.273> group<00:20:48.529> that<00:20:48.770> now<00:20:48.930> I<00:20:49.090> was<00:20:49.251> in<00:20:49.331> charge<00:20:49.716> of,<00:20:50.437> um,<00:20:50.693> to<00:20:50.838> figure<00:20:51.239> out<00:20:51.479> how<00:20:51.591> to<00:20:51.671> not<00:20:52.040> lose<00:20:52.521> just<00:20:52.793> a<00:20:52.858> metric<00:20:53.355> ton<00:20:53.579> of<00:20:53.723> money.

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And<00:20:54.525> it<00:20:54.557> was<00:20:54.701> in<00:20:54.781> that<00:20:54.942> process<00:20:56.448> of<00:20:56.689> diving<00:20:57.010> in,<00:20:57.186> not<00:20:57.330> only<00:20:57.474> into<00:20:57.667> the<00:20:57.811> financials,<00:20:58.388> but<00:20:58.452> then<00:20:58.629> into<00:20:58.853> the<00:20:58.933> software<00:20:59.430> stack<00:20:59.831> of<00:20:59.911> like<00:21:00.312> How<00:21:00.456> can<00:21:00.568> I<00:21:00.697> just<00:21:00.857> get<00:21:01.017> more<00:21:01.177> information<00:21:01.755> in<00:21:01.899> real<00:21:02.091> time<00:21:02.957> about<00:21:03.261> what<00:21:03.374> is<00:21:03.518> going<00:21:03.742> on<00:21:03.822> with<00:21:03.983> my<00:21:04.143> business?

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Like,<00:21:04.961> are<00:21:05.201> you<00:21:05.281> kidding<00:21:05.506> me?

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This<00:21:05.842> accounting<00:21:06.227> software,<00:21:06.628> all<00:21:06.740> of<00:21:06.868> this<00:21:07.045> finance<00:21:07.365> software<00:21:08.263> is<00:21:08.343> so<00:21:08.567> out<00:21:08.712> of<00:21:08.872> date.

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Everything<00:21:10.010> that<00:21:10.170> you're<00:21:10.315> showing<00:21:10.812> me<00:21:11.373> is<00:21:11.405> stuff<00:21:11.693> that<00:21:11.838> happened<00:21:12.094> 90<00:21:12.415> days<00:21:12.735> ago.

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Like,<00:21:14.098> that's<00:21:14.483> not<00:21:14.643> helpful.

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I<00:21:15.140> need<00:21:15.300> to<00:21:15.380> know<00:21:15.524> what's<00:21:15.637> going<00:21:15.861> on<00:21:16.005> right<00:21:16.246> now.

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And<00:21:17.929> it<00:21:17.961> was<00:21:18.185> in<00:21:18.266> that<00:21:18.490> process<00:21:19.147> where<00:21:19.933> what<00:21:20.093> I<00:21:20.253> realized<00:21:20.911> was,<00:21:21.295> yes,<00:21:21.616> what<00:21:21.776> I<00:21:21.792> was<00:21:22.033> experiencing<00:21:23.139> from<00:21:23.315> just<00:21:23.475> a<00:21:23.556> process<00:21:24.036> perspective,<00:21:25.303> uh,<00:21:25.639> was<00:21:26.185> largely<00:21:26.585> ubiquitous<00:21:27.162> with<00:21:27.243> small<00:21:27.483> businesses,<00:21:28.044> meaning<00:21:28.349> you<00:21:28.429> just<00:21:28.669> lacked<00:21:29.022> visibility.

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But<00:21:30.208> the<00:21:30.288> more<00:21:30.513> important<00:21:30.913> thing<00:21:31.090> that<00:21:31.170> drove<00:21:31.491> me<00:21:31.571> to<00:21:31.667> Divvy<00:21:32.516> was<00:21:32.917> that<00:21:33.174> the<00:21:33.478> fear,<00:21:33.895> like<00:21:34.055> the<00:21:34.296> literal<00:21:35.017> and<00:21:35.258> visceral<00:21:35.803> fear<00:21:36.700> that<00:21:36.845> I<00:21:36.925> was<00:21:37.165> feeling<00:21:37.518> as<00:21:37.662> a<00:21:37.726> small<00:21:37.983> business<00:21:38.384> owner<00:21:39.089> of<00:21:39.650> making<00:21:40.051> payroll,<00:21:40.628> about<00:21:40.804> surviving<00:21:41.430> another<00:21:41.750> month,<00:21:42.231> about,<00:21:42.712> you<00:21:42.808> know,<00:21:43.113> taking<00:21:43.994> things<00:21:44.299> from<00:21:44.395> the<00:21:44.540> red<00:21:44.780> to<00:21:44.876> the<00:21:44.956> black,<00:21:46.062> uh,<00:21:46.704> was<00:21:47.746> absolutely<00:21:49.028> ubiquitous<00:21:49.846> with<00:21:49.990> small<00:21:50.246> business<00:21:50.631> owners.

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You<00:21:51.369> go<00:21:51.529> and<00:21:51.673> talk<00:21:51.994> to<00:21:52.234> any<00:21:52.347> small<00:21:52.651> business<00:21:53.036> owner<00:21:53.212> and<00:21:53.308> at<00:21:53.372> some<00:21:53.677> point<00:21:53.853> in<00:21:53.934> their<00:21:54.094> journey,<00:21:54.414> no<00:21:54.495> matter<00:21:54.735> how<00:21:54.976> big<00:21:55.136> or<00:21:55.200> small,<00:21:56.002> how<00:21:56.643> mature<00:21:56.947> or<00:21:57.140> immature<00:21:57.621> they<00:21:57.845> are<00:21:57.941> in<00:21:58.021> their<00:21:58.166> process,<00:21:58.582> they<00:21:58.727> have<00:21:58.823> felt<00:21:59.288> those<00:21:59.400> same<00:21:59.929> elements<00:22:00.266> of<00:22:00.330> fear.

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And<00:22:01.324> it's<00:22:01.612> largely,<00:22:02.093> you<00:22:02.173> can<00:22:02.270> trace<00:22:02.606> it<00:22:02.734> back<00:22:03.071> to<00:22:03.632> I<00:22:03.953> just<00:22:04.434> don't<00:22:04.818> know<00:22:05.075> what's<00:22:05.315> going<00:22:05.636> on.

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I<00:22:05.876> don't<00:22:06.181> have<00:22:06.277> enough<00:22:06.518> data.

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I<00:22:07.239> cannot<00:22:07.736> see<00:22:08.842> into<00:22:09.227> kind<00:22:09.403> of<00:22:09.483> the<00:22:09.547> actual<00:22:09.900> mechanics<00:22:10.381> of<00:22:10.445> my<00:22:10.605> business<00:22:11.230> financially<00:22:11.808> and<00:22:11.968> see<00:22:12.192> what's<00:22:12.369> going<00:22:12.673> on<00:22:12.769> in<00:22:12.930> real<00:22:13.090> time.

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And<00:22:14.677> what<00:22:14.853> we<00:22:14.998> understood<00:22:15.494> pretty<00:22:15.719> quickly<00:22:17.097> was<00:22:17.418> that<00:22:17.659> there<00:22:17.803> was<00:22:17.979> a<00:22:18.059> relationship<00:22:19.326> between<00:22:20.207> your<00:22:20.368> banks<00:22:21.265> and<00:22:21.345> then<00:22:21.506> the<00:22:21.586> software<00:22:22.163> stack<00:22:23.013> and<00:22:23.093> then<00:22:23.189> a<00:22:23.429> massive<00:22:23.910> freaking<00:22:24.295> gap,<00:22:25.177> huge<00:22:25.674> gap<00:22:27.020> of<00:22:27.341> how<00:22:27.517> to<00:22:27.661> get<00:22:27.838> them<00:22:27.918> to<00:22:28.062> work<00:22:28.303> with<00:22:28.479> each<00:22:28.639> other<00:22:28.880> and<00:22:29.040> to<00:22:29.136> sync<00:22:29.505> with<00:22:29.681> each<00:22:29.841> other.

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And<00:22:30.563> instead<00:22:30.964> of<00:22:31.124> trying<00:22:31.685> to<00:22:32.390> integrate<00:22:32.887> those,<00:22:33.512> kind<00:22:33.625> of<00:22:33.673> the<00:22:33.913> aha<00:22:34.105> moment<00:22:34.570> for<00:22:34.715> us<00:22:34.971> was<00:22:35.292> those<00:22:35.388> should<00:22:35.613> be<00:22:35.838> one<00:22:35.950> in<00:22:36.078> the<00:22:36.110> same,<00:22:36.977> right?

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If,<00:22:37.764> if<00:22:38.021> my<00:22:38.261> bank<00:22:39.449> and<00:22:39.610> how<00:22:39.866> I<00:22:39.947> make<00:22:40.268> payments<00:22:40.829> in<00:22:40.974> my<00:22:41.150> organization<00:22:41.792> and<00:22:41.937> how<00:22:42.113> I<00:22:42.274> receive<00:22:42.675> payments<00:22:43.077> in<00:22:43.157> my<00:22:43.333> organization<00:22:44.425> is<00:22:44.585> the<00:22:44.666> same<00:22:45.484> as<00:22:45.645> the<00:22:45.725> finance<00:22:46.431> stack<00:22:47.169> in<00:22:47.234> the<00:22:47.266> software<00:22:47.731> stack<00:22:48.116> that<00:22:48.181> I'm<00:22:48.357> using<00:22:48.775> to—<00:22:49.176> for<00:22:49.401> all<00:22:49.481> the<00:22:49.577> finances,<00:22:51.102> you<00:22:51.246> will<00:22:51.423> just<00:22:51.583> have<00:22:51.760> a<00:22:51.969> real-time<00:22:52.611> flow<00:22:53.012> of<00:22:53.173> information<00:22:54.152> and<00:22:54.232> you'll<00:22:54.392> be<00:22:54.537> much<00:22:54.794> more<00:22:55.018> agile.

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You'll<00:22:55.676> be<00:22:55.837> able<00:22:55.997> to<00:22:56.158> adjust<00:22:56.559> on<00:22:56.639> the<00:22:56.720> fly.

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You'll<00:22:57.282> be<00:22:57.506> able<00:22:57.779> to<00:22:58.389> make<00:22:58.582> decisions<00:22:59.111> right<00:22:59.368> now<00:22:59.994> that<00:23:00.171> can<00:23:00.411> prevent<00:23:00.813> failure<00:23:01.374> in<00:23:01.535> a<00:23:01.615> few<00:23:01.856> weeks<00:23:02.177> or<00:23:02.257> a<00:23:02.338> few<00:23:02.498> months.

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And<00:23:03.862> accelerate<00:23:04.424> growth<00:23:05.051> on<00:23:05.147> the<00:23:05.292> positive<00:23:05.709> side,<00:23:06.030> right?

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It's<00:23:06.367> not<00:23:06.592> just<00:23:06.753> about<00:23:06.913> preventing<00:23:07.315> failure.

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It's<00:23:08.182> also,<00:23:08.439> do<00:23:08.663> I<00:23:08.744> have<00:23:08.920> the<00:23:09.001> information<00:23:10.205> to<00:23:10.430> drive<00:23:10.831> growth?

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And<00:23:12.758> it<00:23:12.934> was<00:23:13.175> a<00:23:13.256> lightning<00:23:13.657> bolt<00:23:14.219> moment,<00:23:14.942> Clint,<00:23:15.343> where<00:23:16.226> the<00:23:16.371> kind<00:23:16.563> of<00:23:16.627> the<00:23:16.724> succession<00:23:17.575> of<00:23:17.976> connecting<00:23:18.554> those<00:23:18.859> dots<00:23:19.919> occurred<00:23:20.320> in<00:23:20.481> a<00:23:20.497> single<00:23:20.947> day.

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And<00:23:21.926> it<00:23:22.006> was<00:23:22.247> within<00:23:22.793> then<00:23:23.050> 2<00:23:23.371> weeks<00:23:23.837> I<00:23:23.933> was<00:23:24.094> investing<00:23:24.720> money<00:23:25.378> into<00:23:25.683> building<00:23:26.005> this<00:23:26.181> out<00:23:26.422> because<00:23:26.743> it<00:23:26.807> was<00:23:26.984> just<00:23:27.128> so<00:23:27.369> clear<00:23:27.594> as<00:23:27.707> day<00:23:27.867> in<00:23:27.947> my<00:23:28.108> mind.

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What<00:23:29.676> did<00:23:29.869> your<00:23:29.950> dad<00:23:30.271> think?

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I<00:23:31.253> assume<00:23:31.655> you<00:23:31.880> talked<00:23:32.121> to<00:23:32.154> your<00:23:32.282> dad.

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You<00:23:33.006> may<00:23:33.424> probably<00:23:33.650> the<00:23:33.730> first<00:23:33.907> person<00:23:34.197> you<00:23:34.229> talked<00:23:34.470> to<00:23:34.551> about<00:23:34.792> this<00:23:34.953> idea<00:23:35.741> or<00:23:35.902> one<00:23:36.063> of<00:23:36.143> the<00:23:36.240> first<00:23:36.562> people<00:23:36.867> you<00:23:36.964> talked<00:23:37.205> to<00:23:37.286> about<00:23:37.446> this<00:23:37.688> idea.

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What<00:23:38.106> did<00:23:38.235> he<00:23:38.380> think?

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Yes,<00:23:39.524> you<00:23:39.637> did<00:23:39.847> it<00:23:39.944> first.

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Oh,<00:23:40.847> he<00:23:40.992> wasn't<00:23:41.298> the<00:23:41.330> first.

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That's<00:23:41.959> interesting.

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Yeah,<00:23:43.959> he<00:23:44.136> was<00:23:44.378> not<00:23:44.604> the<00:23:44.701> first.

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The<00:23:45.168> very<00:23:45.346> first<00:23:45.813> was<00:23:46.473> my<00:23:46.618> co-founder,<00:23:47.180> Alex<00:23:47.501> Bean.

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He<00:23:49.751> was<00:23:49.912> the<00:23:50.008> first.

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But<00:23:50.410> my<00:23:50.635> dad,<00:23:51.133> I<00:23:51.278> went<00:23:51.454> to<00:23:51.599> him<00:23:51.792> in<00:23:52.017> May.

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I<00:23:53.479> simmered<00:23:53.929> on<00:23:54.106> it<00:23:54.266> and<00:23:54.411> wanted<00:23:54.668> to<00:23:54.829> make<00:23:55.070> sure<00:23:56.317> that<00:23:57.614> my<00:23:57.935> logic,<00:23:58.480> my<00:23:58.656> reasoning<00:23:59.217> and<00:23:59.377> business<00:23:59.842> case<00:24:00.643> was<00:24:00.995> not<00:24:01.220> only<00:24:01.396> sound,<00:24:02.325> but<00:24:02.501> that<00:24:02.806> it<00:24:02.982> was<00:24:03.223> just<00:24:03.623> rock<00:24:03.944> solid.

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And<00:24:04.905> then<00:24:05.065> I<00:24:05.209> went<00:24:05.386> to<00:24:05.530> him<00:24:07.052> and<00:24:08.270> again,<00:24:08.590> what<00:24:08.751> you're<00:24:09.071> trying<00:24:09.311> to<00:24:09.391> kind<00:24:09.632> of<00:24:10.593> bump<00:24:10.898> up<00:24:11.010> against<00:24:11.394> people,<00:24:11.715> pressure<00:24:12.115> test,<00:24:12.436> what's<00:24:12.676> their<00:24:12.772> initial<00:24:13.301> reaction?

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Do<00:24:14.519> they<00:24:14.663> kind<00:24:14.855> of<00:24:14.919> like<00:24:15.336> sit<00:24:15.705> back<00:24:15.977> and<00:24:16.185> think<00:24:16.361> about<00:24:16.586> it<00:24:16.746> for<00:24:16.842> a<00:24:16.922> little<00:24:17.147> bit?

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Do<00:24:17.563> they<00:24:17.723> grimace?

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Are<00:24:18.444> they<00:24:18.669> leaning<00:24:18.989> in?

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And<00:24:20.287> it's,<00:24:21.168> to<00:24:21.265> me,<00:24:21.409> I<00:24:21.489> was<00:24:21.569> just<00:24:21.729> trying<00:24:21.905> to<00:24:22.034> pay<00:24:22.194> attention<00:24:22.611> to<00:24:22.835> all<00:24:22.995> of<00:24:23.091> that.

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And,<00:24:24.520> and<00:24:25.163> he<00:24:25.966> looked<00:24:26.223> at<00:24:26.304> me<00:24:26.384> and<00:24:26.545> he's<00:24:26.770> not<00:24:27.091> one,<00:24:27.412> he's<00:24:27.750> not<00:24:27.926> a<00:24:28.071> puff<00:24:28.392> piece<00:24:28.633> person.

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If<00:24:29.597> it's<00:24:29.758> not<00:24:29.999> right,<00:24:30.272> he's<00:24:30.384> gonna<00:24:30.481> be<00:24:30.577> like,<00:24:30.706> Blake,<00:24:31.140> I<00:24:31.348> really<00:24:31.541> think<00:24:31.830> you<00:24:31.911> should<00:24:32.023> spend<00:24:32.328> time<00:24:32.569> doing<00:24:32.826> something<00:24:33.212> else.

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Like,<00:24:34.176> let<00:24:34.321> me<00:24:34.433> tell<00:24:34.642> you<00:24:34.803> why.

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This<00:24:35.702> is<00:24:35.783> when<00:24:35.943> he<00:24:36.007> was<00:24:36.184> like,<00:24:37.212> you<00:24:37.309> got<00:24:37.550> something<00:24:37.951> here.

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You<00:24:38.996> got<00:24:39.172> something<00:24:39.622> here.

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Like,<00:24:40.361> how<00:24:40.747> do<00:24:40.924> we<00:24:41.100> make<00:24:41.406> sure<00:24:42.273> that<00:24:42.514> you're<00:24:42.707> headed<00:24:43.012> in<00:24:43.092> the<00:24:43.173> right<00:24:43.414> direction?

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And<00:24:44.137> so<00:24:45.085> I,<00:24:45.406> he,<00:24:45.743> he<00:24:45.904> felt<00:24:46.289> it<00:24:46.370> also<00:24:46.788> pretty<00:24:47.012> quickly.

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He<00:24:47.575> could<00:24:47.671> tell<00:24:47.832> that<00:24:47.912> my<00:24:48.137> research<00:24:49.101> was<00:24:49.422> incredibly<00:24:49.856> thorough.

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And<00:24:51.123> that<00:24:51.283> I<00:24:51.428> had<00:24:51.604> mapped<00:24:52.069> out—<00:24:53.607> here's<00:24:53.848> the<00:24:54.072> end<00:24:54.248> in<00:24:54.393> mind—<00:24:55.130> and<00:24:55.354> I<00:24:55.434> had<00:24:55.611> mapped<00:24:55.995> out<00:24:56.091> in<00:24:56.172> that<00:24:56.332> short<00:24:56.572> amount<00:24:56.749> of<00:24:56.813> time<00:24:57.598> effectively<00:24:58.255> a<00:24:58.319> playbook<00:24:59.361> of<00:24:59.842> what<00:25:00.323> that<00:25:01.461> user<00:25:01.925> experience<00:25:02.518> and<00:25:02.647> product<00:25:03.127> needed<00:25:03.448> to<00:25:03.624> look<00:25:03.881> and<00:25:04.169> act<00:25:04.426> like<00:25:05.051> for<00:25:05.163> it<00:25:05.227> to<00:25:05.371> be<00:25:05.467> successful.

00:25:06.974 --> 00:25:09.490
How<00:25:07.150> validating<00:25:07.936> was<00:25:08.112> that<00:25:08.673> to<00:25:08.817> hear<00:25:08.929> that<00:25:09.073> from<00:25:09.234> your<00:25:09.314> dad?

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I<00:25:09.779> assume<00:25:10.131> you<00:25:10.259> were<00:25:10.340> probably<00:25:10.756> thinking,<00:25:10.997> I'm<00:25:11.221> all<00:25:11.397> in<00:25:11.542> on<00:25:11.638> this,<00:25:11.862> I<00:25:11.942> really<00:25:12.119> like<00:25:12.279> this<00:25:12.503> idea.

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But<00:25:13.385> once<00:25:13.705> he<00:25:13.882> says<00:25:14.282> it,<00:25:14.378> someone<00:25:14.843> who,<00:25:15.244> like<00:25:15.645> we've<00:25:15.789> mentioned<00:25:15.981> before,<00:25:16.382> someone<00:25:16.590> who<00:25:16.670> means<00:25:16.927> a<00:25:16.991> lot<00:25:17.167> to<00:25:17.231> you,<00:25:17.888> your<00:25:18.049> father,<00:25:18.449> your<00:25:18.546> mentor,<00:25:19.074> all<00:25:19.171> that<00:25:19.331> type<00:25:19.507> of<00:25:19.571> stuff.

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Stuff.

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Um,<00:25:20.757> was<00:25:20.921> it<00:25:21.068> just<00:25:21.249> like,<00:25:21.478> all<00:25:21.577> right,<00:25:21.889> I<00:25:21.905> got<00:25:22.086> something?

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Was<00:25:22.709> that<00:25:22.873> like<00:25:23.037> a<00:25:23.070> light<00:25:23.382> bulb<00:25:23.611> moment<00:25:23.940> in<00:25:24.038> the<00:25:24.120> journey?

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Yeah,<00:25:26.154> it<00:25:26.235> was<00:25:26.557> actually,<00:25:26.911> I'll<00:25:27.040> be<00:25:27.265> honest,<00:25:27.845> because<00:25:28.344> the<00:25:28.489> other<00:25:28.666> side<00:25:28.972> of<00:25:29.117> it<00:25:29.922> is<00:25:30.486> I'd<00:25:30.808> already<00:25:31.066> learned<00:25:31.388> in<00:25:31.420> my<00:25:31.613> career,<00:25:32.821> um,<00:25:33.481> that<00:25:33.900> not<00:25:34.189> all<00:25:34.302> advice<00:25:34.769> is<00:25:34.914> created<00:25:35.172> equal.

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I<00:25:35.654> think<00:25:35.814> when<00:25:35.895> you<00:25:35.975> have<00:25:36.136> a<00:25:36.216> good<00:25:36.361> idea,<00:25:37.084> the,<00:25:37.405> the<00:25:38.128> kind<00:25:38.240> of<00:25:38.369> the<00:25:38.787> inclination<00:25:39.574> for<00:25:39.734> anyone<00:25:40.232> and<00:25:40.538> kind<00:25:40.650> of<00:25:40.714> just<00:25:40.875> human<00:25:41.116> nature<00:25:41.518> is<00:25:41.678> to<00:25:41.759> go<00:25:41.919> start<00:25:42.273> talking<00:25:42.498> about<00:25:42.707> it<00:25:42.787> with<00:25:42.948> anyone<00:25:43.205> and<00:25:43.349> everyone,<00:25:44.153> you<00:25:44.233> know,<00:25:44.345> assuming<00:25:44.715> that<00:25:44.892> as<00:25:44.991> much<00:25:45.222> feedback<00:25:45.618> as<00:25:45.733> I<00:25:45.865> get<00:25:46.128> is<00:25:46.277> going<00:25:46.376> to<00:25:46.458> be<00:25:46.606> helpful.

00:25:47.597 --> 00:25:53.606
But<00:25:47.853> why,<00:25:48.093> if<00:25:48.254> they're<00:25:48.334> not<00:25:48.558> a<00:25:48.574> subject<00:25:48.959> matter<00:25:49.215> expert,<00:25:49.536> if<00:25:49.680> they<00:25:49.712> don't<00:25:49.856> have<00:25:49.952> experience,<00:25:50.417> they<00:25:50.497> don't—<00:25:50.721> if<00:25:50.834> it's<00:25:51.074> not<00:25:51.218> real,<00:25:51.475> like<00:25:51.939> you<00:25:52.035> shouldn't<00:25:52.260> be<00:25:52.356> seeking<00:25:52.660> feedback<00:25:53.045> from<00:25:53.141> that<00:25:53.285> person.

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And<00:25:53.782> so<00:25:54.567> from<00:25:54.680> a<00:25:54.744> Divi<00:25:54.984> perspective,<00:25:55.529> I<00:25:55.545> was<00:25:55.705> actually<00:25:56.106> really<00:25:56.571> quiet<00:25:57.067> by<00:25:57.292> design<00:25:58.173> outside<00:25:58.446> of<00:25:58.526> a<00:25:58.590> few<00:25:58.766> selected<00:25:59.215> people.

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And<00:25:59.631> you<00:25:59.711> and<00:25:59.856> I<00:25:59.872> have<00:25:59.968> spoken<00:26:00.352> about,<00:26:00.657> you<00:26:00.689> know,<00:26:00.737> I<00:26:00.833> was<00:26:00.993> working<00:26:01.234> with<00:26:01.298> the<00:26:01.458> Gundersons<00:26:02.051> who<00:26:02.195> are<00:26:02.500> a<00:26:03.061> development<00:26:03.558> agency<00:26:04.038> here<00:26:04.263> in<00:26:04.423> Utah,<00:26:05.144> but<00:26:05.256> we<00:26:05.384> had<00:26:05.464> a<00:26:05.641> really<00:26:06.041> tight-knit<00:26:07.003> group<00:26:07.243> of<00:26:07.387> people<00:26:07.724> that<00:26:07.964> knew<00:26:08.846> kind<00:26:08.942> of<00:26:09.006> what<00:26:09.166> was<00:26:09.391> living<00:26:09.583> in<00:26:09.711> my<00:26:09.968> head.

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And<00:26:10.785> so<00:26:11.009> then<00:26:11.169> going<00:26:11.346> to<00:26:11.410> my<00:26:11.570> dad<00:26:12.115> and<00:26:12.211> then<00:26:12.500> and<00:26:12.772> not<00:26:13.012> just<00:26:13.173> talking<00:26:13.509> to<00:26:13.557> him,<00:26:13.654> but<00:26:13.798> kind<00:26:13.894> of<00:26:14.038> pitching<00:26:14.519> him<00:26:14.936> and<00:26:15.096> really<00:26:15.337> pitching<00:26:15.738> the<00:26:15.898> business<00:26:16.299> and<00:26:16.379> not<00:26:16.539> just<00:26:16.699> the<00:26:16.780> product<00:26:17.661> for<00:26:17.757> the<00:26:17.822> first<00:26:18.078> time.

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And<00:26:18.463> for<00:26:18.607> that<00:26:18.767> to<00:26:18.863> be<00:26:18.944> received<00:26:19.344> so<00:26:19.585> well,<00:26:21.028> that<00:26:21.412> was,<00:26:21.989> that,<00:26:22.390> that<00:26:22.534> was<00:26:22.695> good.

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That<00:26:23.608> it<00:26:23.672> was<00:26:23.769> important.

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And<00:26:24.218> again,<00:26:24.458> context<00:26:24.955> matters<00:26:25.756> because<00:26:26.478> I'd<00:26:26.702> pitched<00:26:27.103> him<00:26:27.680> probably<00:26:28.161> 20<00:26:28.562> other<00:26:28.786> businesses<00:26:29.283> before<00:26:30.004> and<00:26:30.165> never<00:26:30.405> had<00:26:30.565> a<00:26:30.630> positive<00:26:31.110> response<00:26:31.688> ever,<00:26:32.233> you<00:26:32.329> know?

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And<00:26:33.130> so<00:26:33.371> finally<00:26:33.691> getting<00:26:34.012> a<00:26:34.172> real<00:26:34.413> positive<00:26:35.038> response<00:26:36.160> and<00:26:36.336> not<00:26:36.497> just<00:26:36.657> positive,<00:26:37.298> but<00:26:37.458> like,<00:26:38.084> whoa,<00:26:38.805> Blake,<00:26:39.526> This<00:26:39.783> is<00:26:39.927> big,<00:26:41.290> that<00:26:41.947> we<00:26:42.092> knew<00:26:42.268> we<00:26:42.412> had<00:26:42.573> something<00:26:42.893> pretty<00:26:43.070> big.

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That's<00:26:44.096> incredible.

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And<00:26:44.753> how<00:26:44.913> validating<00:26:45.571> is<00:26:45.715> that?

00:26:46.020 --> 00:26:48.232
And<00:26:46.116> you<00:26:46.212> just<00:26:46.501> mentioned<00:26:46.757> something<00:26:46.982> and<00:26:47.078> I<00:26:47.142> want<00:26:47.238> to<00:26:47.302> give<00:26:47.399> some<00:26:47.559> context<00:26:48.040> to<00:26:48.184> it.

00:26:48.761 --> 00:26:52.337
You<00:26:48.842> mentioned<00:26:49.162> the<00:26:49.226> Gundersons<00:26:49.964> who<00:26:50.509> I've<00:26:50.669> worked<00:26:50.830> with,<00:26:51.166> they're<00:26:51.359> like<00:26:51.567> brothers<00:26:51.904> of<00:26:51.968> mine.

00:26:52.834 --> 00:26:53.651
I<00:26:53.074> live<00:26:53.251> in<00:26:53.331> Utah.

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They're<00:26:54.132> like<00:26:54.453> Utah<00:26:54.838> legends<00:26:55.255> within<00:26:55.559> the<00:26:55.640> startup<00:26:55.976> community,<00:26:56.313> very<00:26:56.602> wonderful<00:26:57.002> people.

00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:02.662
But<00:26:57.740> they<00:26:57.900> were<00:26:58.445> running<00:26:58.782> a<00:26:58.798> software<00:26:59.263> development<00:26:59.728> shop<00:27:00.081> at<00:27:00.209> the<00:27:00.289> time,<00:27:00.947> like<00:27:01.107> an<00:27:01.171> outsourced<00:27:01.620> software<00:27:01.892> development<00:27:02.389> shop.

00:27:02.790 --> 00:27:05.772
And<00:27:02.870> what<00:27:03.031> they<00:27:03.191> would<00:27:03.351> do<00:27:03.576> is<00:27:03.672> they'd<00:27:03.897> work<00:27:04.089> with<00:27:04.249> early-stage<00:27:04.778> startups<00:27:05.195> and<00:27:05.275> founders.

00:27:06.157 --> 00:27:08.097
They'd<00:27:06.302> help<00:27:06.478> them<00:27:06.638> build<00:27:06.943> like<00:27:07.119> an<00:27:07.199> initial<00:27:07.745> MVP.

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MVP,<00:27:08.884> right?

00:27:09.189 --> 00:27:10.955
Or<00:27:09.687> prototype<00:27:10.233> or<00:27:10.313> anything<00:27:10.554> like<00:27:10.730> that.

00:27:11.437 --> 00:27:15.676
And<00:27:11.533> then<00:27:11.838> the<00:27:12.095> idea<00:27:12.481> was<00:27:12.593> like<00:27:12.737> to<00:27:12.898> get<00:27:13.123> that<00:27:13.524> company<00:27:13.861> to<00:27:13.958> a<00:27:14.022> point<00:27:14.263> where<00:27:14.359> they<00:27:14.504> could<00:27:14.584> transition<00:27:15.130> in-house<00:27:15.467> team.

00:27:16.270 --> 00:27:19.337
I<00:27:16.430> bring<00:27:16.671> that<00:27:16.896> up<00:27:17.057> only<00:27:17.233> because<00:27:17.876> that's<00:27:18.116> a<00:27:18.132> model<00:27:18.518> that<00:27:18.743> you<00:27:19.080> did.

00:27:19.401 --> 00:27:28.762
You,<00:27:19.642> you,<00:27:19.947> you<00:27:20.124> went<00:27:20.364> to<00:27:20.525> an<00:27:20.669> outsourced,<00:27:21.713> uh,<00:27:22.227> software<00:27:22.612> development<00:27:23.576> team,<00:27:24.218> you<00:27:24.379> built<00:27:24.603> kind<00:27:24.780> of<00:27:24.860> the<00:27:25.021> MVP,<00:27:26.064> and<00:27:26.145> then<00:27:26.305> you<00:27:26.610> obviously<00:27:27.188> transitioned<00:27:27.766> it<00:27:27.831> into<00:27:28.072> its<00:27:28.296> own<00:27:28.553> thing.

00:27:28.858 --> 00:27:33.643
And<00:27:28.955> it<00:27:29.035> be—<00:27:29.276> but<00:27:29.420> what<00:27:29.581> was<00:27:29.741> that<00:27:29.918> process<00:27:30.319> like,<00:27:30.480> that<00:27:30.641> initial,<00:27:31.106> like<00:27:31.668> working<00:27:32.005> with<00:27:32.182> a<00:27:32.246> software<00:27:32.792> development<00:27:33.274> firm?

00:27:34.012 --> 00:27:47.195
Picking<00:27:34.414> the<00:27:34.558> right<00:27:34.815> software<00:27:35.217> development<00:27:35.763> firm,<00:27:36.903> picking<00:27:37.224> the<00:27:37.288> right<00:27:37.529> partners<00:27:37.946> to<00:27:38.091> do<00:27:38.251> that<00:27:38.492> with,<00:27:38.749> and<00:27:38.829> then<00:27:38.974> eventually<00:27:39.407> saying<00:27:39.713> like,<00:27:39.937> all<00:27:39.969> right,<00:27:40.981> uh,<00:27:42.121> the,<00:27:42.747> the<00:27:42.844> firm<00:27:43.149> was<00:27:43.245> called<00:27:43.470> Azeni<00:27:44.690> back<00:27:44.867> in<00:27:44.931> the<00:27:45.011> day<00:27:45.252> that<00:27:45.397> the<00:27:45.493> Gunderson<00:27:45.830> brothers,<00:27:46.360> uh,<00:27:46.938> ran.

00:27:47.564 --> 00:27:50.567
And,<00:27:47.966> all<00:27:48.062> right,<00:27:48.287> Azeni,<00:27:48.688> we've<00:27:48.945> gotten<00:27:49.250> everything<00:27:49.587> we<00:27:49.748> can<00:27:50.133> out<00:27:50.230> of<00:27:50.454> you.

00:27:51.032 --> 00:27:56.347
It's<00:27:51.177> time<00:27:51.354> for<00:27:51.498> us<00:27:51.594> to<00:27:51.739> transition<00:27:52.317> this<00:27:53.200> to<00:27:53.987> all<00:27:54.164> in-house,<00:27:55.191> and<00:27:55.448> we're<00:27:55.609> going<00:27:55.833> all<00:27:56.026> in<00:27:56.155> on<00:27:56.251> this.

00:27:56.411 --> 00:27:57.792
What<00:27:56.556> was<00:27:56.717> that<00:27:56.877> whole<00:27:57.038> process<00:27:57.455> like<00:27:57.680> for<00:27:57.760> you?

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At<00:28:02.192> first,<00:28:02.755> scary<00:28:03.397> for<00:28:03.558> a<00:28:03.718> non-technical<00:28:04.762> founder.

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Um,<00:28:06.609> you,<00:28:06.914> you,<00:28:07.476> uh,<00:28:07.717> where<00:28:08.038> your<00:28:08.151> strengths<00:28:08.697> aren't<00:28:08.857> there<00:28:09.034> and<00:28:09.163> you<00:28:09.323> literally<00:28:09.644> have<00:28:09.757> zero<00:28:09.998> skillset<00:28:10.849> of<00:28:11.283> even<00:28:11.507> how<00:28:11.652> to<00:28:11.829> do<00:28:12.005> a<00:28:12.214> wireframe,<00:28:13.097> right?

00:28:13.515 --> 00:28:18.526
For<00:28:13.900> a<00:28:14.061> mobile<00:28:14.382> app<00:28:14.639> or<00:28:14.800> for<00:28:14.960> a<00:28:15.105> webpage,<00:28:15.667> you<00:28:15.747> don't<00:28:15.924> know<00:28:16.004> how<00:28:16.085> to<00:28:16.245> do<00:28:16.470> any<00:28:16.631> of<00:28:16.727> that,<00:28:16.968> but<00:28:17.193> you<00:28:17.273> have<00:28:17.434> all<00:28:17.530> the<00:28:17.691> ideas<00:28:18.092> that<00:28:18.237> are<00:28:18.397> here.

00:28:19.297 --> 00:28:23.408
I<00:28:19.393> needed<00:28:19.778> somebody<00:28:20.341> to<00:28:20.501> help<00:28:20.742> take<00:28:21.063> what<00:28:21.208> was<00:28:21.384> living<00:28:21.706> here<00:28:22.268> and<00:28:22.412> put<00:28:22.573> it<00:28:22.669> into<00:28:22.846> screens.

00:28:23.938 --> 00:28:28.435
And<00:28:24.500> that's,<00:28:24.757> that's<00:28:25.078> the<00:28:25.239> very<00:28:25.480> specific<00:28:26.042> help<00:28:26.347> I<00:28:26.379> needed<00:28:26.845> because<00:28:27.230> then<00:28:27.471> I<00:28:27.632> could<00:28:27.809> give<00:28:28.050> direction.

00:28:28.852 --> 00:28:34.021
Just<00:28:29.077> on<00:28:29.173> my<00:28:29.334> own<00:28:30.056> kind<00:28:30.201> of<00:28:30.281> confidence<00:28:31.485> on<00:28:32.062> the<00:28:32.207> aesthetics<00:28:32.704> of<00:28:32.849> it,<00:28:32.945> of<00:28:33.090> how<00:28:33.250> it<00:28:33.282> needed<00:28:33.587> to<00:28:33.812> look.

00:28:34.069 --> 00:28:38.370
I<00:28:34.149> just<00:28:34.309> had<00:28:34.550> an<00:28:34.647> incredible<00:28:35.048> amount<00:28:35.289> of<00:28:35.433> trust<00:28:35.754> in<00:28:35.834> my<00:28:36.059> own<00:28:36.236> skill<00:28:36.476> in<00:28:36.557> that,<00:28:37.038> but<00:28:37.183> I<00:28:37.199> didn't<00:28:37.520> know<00:28:37.744> how<00:28:37.841> to<00:28:38.001> do<00:28:38.162> that.

00:28:39.526 --> 00:28:48.305
And<00:28:39.767> Aizenni<00:28:40.553> was<00:28:41.757> probably<00:28:42.078> one<00:28:42.238> of<00:28:42.415> the<00:28:42.736> only<00:28:43.619> 1,<00:28:44.100> 2,<00:28:44.357> or<00:28:44.501> 3<00:28:44.967> groups<00:28:45.304> in<00:28:45.464> Utah<00:28:45.866> at<00:28:45.962> the<00:28:46.090> time<00:28:46.813> that<00:28:46.973> had<00:28:47.070> a<00:28:47.150> track<00:28:47.487> record<00:28:47.776> of<00:28:47.856> success.

00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:55.464
And<00:28:49.076> then<00:28:49.317> I<00:28:49.541> had<00:28:49.718> known<00:28:50.119> them<00:28:50.440> a<00:28:50.601> little<00:28:50.841> bit,<00:28:51.146> but<00:28:51.403> like<00:28:51.804> brushed<00:28:52.125> shoulders<00:28:52.607> a<00:28:52.623> little<00:28:52.928> bit<00:28:53.650> because<00:28:53.987> of<00:28:54.116> their<00:28:54.292> work<00:28:54.597> also<00:28:54.918> with<00:28:55.175> Weave.

00:28:55.576 --> 00:29:03.406
And<00:28:55.737> so<00:28:55.913> again,<00:28:56.282> there<00:28:56.331> was<00:28:56.523> just<00:28:56.860> an<00:28:57.165> embedded<00:28:57.647> level<00:28:57.887> of<00:28:57.984> trust<00:28:58.465> because<00:28:58.867> they<00:28:58.931> had<00:28:59.091> been<00:28:59.252> working<00:28:59.573> with<00:28:59.749> some<00:28:59.990> of<00:29:00.054> the<00:29:00.151> better<00:29:01.033> Utah<00:29:01.354> tech<00:29:01.594> companies<00:29:02.075> and<00:29:02.220> help<00:29:02.396> them<00:29:02.556> and<00:29:02.717> get<00:29:02.941> off<00:29:03.053> the<00:29:03.182> ground.

00:29:03.983 --> 00:29:07.159
And<00:29:04.224> that's<00:29:04.946> been<00:29:05.122> what<00:29:05.347> Aizenni<00:29:05.699> and<00:29:05.828> myself,<00:29:06.245> we<00:29:06.405> really<00:29:06.645> focused<00:29:07.110> on.

00:29:07.832 --> 00:29:18.753
We<00:29:07.928> focused<00:29:08.634> on<00:29:09.532> making<00:29:10.013> sure<00:29:10.895> that<00:29:11.601> we<00:29:11.921> could<00:29:12.723> design<00:29:13.300> a<00:29:13.461> user<00:29:13.862> experience<00:29:14.583> that<00:29:14.744> would<00:29:14.904> be<00:29:15.000> a<00:29:15.048> no-brainer<00:29:15.866> to<00:29:16.171> all<00:29:16.427> kind<00:29:16.588> of<00:29:16.668> the<00:29:16.748> different<00:29:17.005> stakeholders<00:29:17.694> that<00:29:17.790> would<00:29:17.887> need<00:29:18.111> to<00:29:18.272> use<00:29:18.496> Divi.

00:29:19.234 --> 00:29:21.928
There<00:29:19.330> was<00:29:19.538> actually<00:29:19.859> a<00:29:19.955> really<00:29:20.340> logical<00:29:21.078> baton<00:29:21.623> pass.

00:29:22.601 --> 00:29:47.257
So<00:29:22.762> the<00:29:22.906> conversation<00:29:23.499> of<00:29:23.644> moving<00:29:24.045> off<00:29:24.205> of<00:29:24.349> them<00:29:24.606> was<00:29:24.830> not<00:29:25.007> never<00:29:25.231> difficult<00:29:26.514> because<00:29:27.733> the<00:29:29.095> meaning,<00:29:29.720> they<00:29:29.977> also<00:29:30.281> then<00:29:30.458> realized<00:29:31.339> that,<00:29:32.061> whoa,<00:29:32.478> the<00:29:32.606> technology<00:29:33.343> you're<00:29:33.503> gonna<00:29:33.824> be<00:29:33.920> forced<00:29:34.465> to<00:29:34.626> build<00:29:35.732> is,<00:29:36.790> it's<00:29:36.886> not<00:29:37.094> that<00:29:37.206> it<00:29:37.271> was<00:29:37.511> outside<00:29:37.767> of<00:29:37.832> their<00:29:37.928> skillset,<00:29:38.890> it<00:29:38.954> was<00:29:39.114> just<00:29:39.274> gonna<00:29:39.499> be<00:29:39.675> too<00:29:40.541> massive<00:29:41.054> of<00:29:41.198> a<00:29:41.278> project<00:29:41.919> because<00:29:42.160> having<00:29:42.400> to<00:29:42.561> build<00:29:42.865> into<00:29:43.186> banks<00:29:43.602> and<00:29:43.763> these<00:29:44.949> APIs<00:29:45.526> that<00:29:45.751> really<00:29:46.007> didn't<00:29:46.312> exist<00:29:46.744> at<00:29:46.873> the<00:29:46.905> time.

00:29:47.947 --> 00:30:04.928
So<00:29:48.091> their<00:29:48.251> advice<00:29:48.572> to<00:29:48.716> me<00:29:48.892> was,<00:29:49.373> we'll<00:29:49.598> get<00:29:49.694> you<00:29:49.854> to<00:29:49.950> this<00:29:50.175> point,<00:29:50.560> we'll<00:29:50.720> get<00:29:50.880> you<00:29:50.976> to<00:29:51.137> where<00:29:51.377> you<00:29:51.521> have<00:29:51.922> functional<00:29:52.339> wireframes<00:29:52.916> on<00:29:52.980> mobile,<00:29:53.381> we'll<00:29:53.621> get<00:29:53.862> build<00:29:54.166> your,<00:29:54.663> you<00:29:54.743> know,<00:29:54.904> your<00:29:55.064> webpage<00:29:55.609> for<00:29:55.785> you,<00:29:55.946> we'll<00:29:56.106> build<00:29:56.587> even<00:29:56.907> the<00:29:57.228> wireframes<00:29:58.030> on<00:29:58.254> web,<00:29:59.500> web,<00:30:00.018> but<00:30:00.731> any<00:30:01.234> material<00:30:01.866> code,<00:30:02.287> you're<00:30:02.449> going<00:30:02.627> to<00:30:02.692> need<00:30:02.854> to<00:30:02.919> go<00:30:03.081> hire<00:30:04.167> some<00:30:04.556> engineers.

00:30:05.468 --> 00:30:09.526
And<00:30:05.677> oh,<00:30:05.758> by<00:30:05.854> the<00:30:05.935> way,<00:30:06.160> here<00:30:06.321> are<00:30:06.353> some<00:30:06.563> suggestions<00:30:07.223> of<00:30:07.609> who<00:30:07.690> we<00:30:07.787> think<00:30:07.948> you<00:30:08.028> should<00:30:08.189> be<00:30:08.270> looking<00:30:09.220> at.

00:30:09.703 --> 00:30:14.727
And,<00:30:09.880> and<00:30:09.977> so<00:30:10.186> they<00:30:10.347> even<00:30:10.524> helped<00:30:10.830> with<00:30:11.072> pointing<00:30:11.313> me<00:30:11.410> in<00:30:11.490> the<00:30:11.571> right<00:30:11.796> direction<00:30:12.279> of<00:30:12.472> early<00:30:12.682> engineers<00:30:13.245> that<00:30:13.406> we<00:30:13.503> should<00:30:13.664> be<00:30:13.745> looking<00:30:14.131> at<00:30:14.228> and<00:30:14.373> hiring.

00:30:16.752 --> 00:30:28.106
But<00:30:17.475> what<00:30:17.620> I<00:30:17.700> would<00:30:17.797> say,<00:30:18.134> to<00:30:18.263> not<00:30:18.520> undersell<00:30:19.018> their<00:30:19.243> impact,<00:30:21.010> their<00:30:21.331> wireframes<00:30:22.777> are<00:30:23.018> a<00:30:23.179> direct<00:30:23.564> result<00:30:23.902> of<00:30:23.982> why<00:30:24.287> we<00:30:24.319> were<00:30:24.448> able<00:30:24.609> to<00:30:24.705> land<00:30:25.010> our<00:30:25.171> big<00:30:25.332> commercial<00:30:25.749> agreements<00:30:26.167> that<00:30:26.313> we<00:30:26.396> landed<00:30:26.960> at<00:30:27.043> the<00:30:27.126> very<00:30:27.309> beginning,<00:30:27.874> right?

00:30:28.156 --> 00:30:33.702
Our<00:30:28.189> first<00:30:28.256> one<00:30:28.305> was<00:30:28.355> with<00:30:28.471> US<00:30:28.588> Bank,<00:30:28.704> who<00:30:28.737> at<00:30:28.770> the<00:30:28.804> time<00:30:28.853> I<00:30:28.870> think<00:30:28.936> was<00:30:30.972> the<00:30:31.518> 4th<00:30:31.710> or<00:30:31.839> 5th<00:30:32.080> largest<00:30:32.481> bank<00:30:32.738> in<00:30:32.802> the<00:30:32.883> United<00:30:33.156> States.

00:30:34.248 --> 00:30:40.944
And<00:30:35.131> we<00:30:35.211> were<00:30:35.291> able<00:30:35.404> to<00:30:35.484> take<00:30:35.934> what<00:30:36.094> we<00:30:36.175> had,<00:30:36.977> a<00:30:37.395> functioning<00:30:37.957> MVP<00:30:39.788> to<00:30:40.269> Minnesota.

00:30:41.072 --> 00:30:48.523
We<00:30:41.169> find<00:30:41.313> ourselves<00:30:41.650> sitting<00:30:41.972> in<00:30:42.132> the<00:30:42.437> HQ,<00:30:43.401> you<00:30:43.433> know,<00:30:43.593> in<00:30:43.674> a<00:30:43.802> room<00:30:44.139> all<00:30:44.220> of<00:30:44.284> a<00:30:44.300> sudden,<00:30:44.605> you<00:30:44.685> know,<00:30:44.766> it's<00:30:44.926> Alex<00:30:45.264> Bean<00:30:45.488> and<00:30:45.585> I,<00:30:46.693> we're<00:30:46.966> sitting<00:30:47.271> with<00:30:47.431> 14<00:30:47.833> other<00:30:47.993> professionals.

00:30:48.572 --> 00:30:51.639
They're<00:30:48.780> all<00:30:48.861> wearing<00:30:49.053> suit<00:30:49.342> and<00:30:49.439> tie<00:30:49.680> and<00:30:49.760> we're<00:30:49.856> like,<00:30:50.226> holy<00:30:50.627> crap,<00:30:50.964> this<00:30:51.205> is<00:30:51.366> bizarre.

00:30:52.072 --> 00:31:06.783
But<00:30:52.153> then<00:30:52.249> we<00:30:52.329> give<00:30:52.554> the<00:30:52.634> pitch<00:30:52.827> of<00:30:52.907> a<00:30:52.955> lifetime<00:30:53.694> and<00:30:53.999> we<00:30:54.096> tell<00:30:54.481> this<00:30:54.658> story<00:30:55.525> of<00:30:55.685> this<00:30:55.862> shift<00:30:57.131> of<00:30:57.227> how<00:30:57.468> small<00:30:57.789> business<00:30:58.174> owners<00:30:59.057> are<00:30:59.377> going<00:30:59.714> to,<00:30:59.954> with<00:31:00.179> confidence,<00:31:00.676> we<00:31:00.756> said,<00:31:01.141> you<00:31:01.317> may<00:31:01.477> not<00:31:01.718> believe<00:31:02.038> it,<00:31:02.263> but<00:31:02.359> we<00:31:02.503> promise<00:31:02.920> you<00:31:03.625> that<00:31:03.898> small<00:31:04.266> businesses,<00:31:05.228> they<00:31:05.324> do<00:31:05.421> not<00:31:05.645> care<00:31:05.870> about<00:31:06.046> their<00:31:06.206> cash<00:31:06.527> back.

00:31:06.911 --> 00:31:09.460
They<00:31:07.008> care<00:31:07.248> about<00:31:07.569> the<00:31:07.729> value<00:31:08.515> that<00:31:08.691> you<00:31:08.915> add<00:31:09.108> to<00:31:09.236> them.

00:31:09.733 --> 00:31:19.127
And<00:31:09.877> the<00:31:09.973> logical<00:31:10.374> shift<00:31:10.775> is<00:31:10.919> going<00:31:11.176> to<00:31:11.336> be,<00:31:12.121> you<00:31:12.714> know,<00:31:12.859> this<00:31:13.083> convergence<00:31:13.724> of<00:31:14.205> payments<00:31:15.985> with<00:31:16.963> software,<00:31:17.732> banking<00:31:18.373> with<00:31:18.550> software.

00:31:19.736 --> 00:31:23.295
And<00:31:20.153> those<00:31:20.393> screens<00:31:20.858> were<00:31:21.018> really,<00:31:21.259> really<00:31:21.435> important<00:31:22.301> to<00:31:22.621> pulling<00:31:22.878> all<00:31:23.022> that<00:31:23.182> off.

00:31:23.423 --> 00:31:24.785
We<00:31:23.519> walked<00:31:23.775> away<00:31:24.080> with<00:31:24.240> an<00:31:24.320> agreement<00:31:24.625> with<00:31:24.705> them.

00:31:25.219 --> 00:31:25.395
Them.

00:31:26.149 --> 00:31:43.658
And<00:31:26.230> that<00:31:26.390> meeting<00:31:26.567> with<00:31:26.711> US<00:31:26.968> Bank<00:31:27.209> must<00:31:27.369> have<00:31:27.465> been<00:31:27.674> one<00:31:27.786> of<00:31:28.236> the<00:31:28.332> times<00:31:28.653> in<00:31:28.733> the<00:31:28.894> journey<00:31:29.279> of<00:31:29.520> obviously<00:31:29.857> the<00:31:29.937> validation<00:31:30.483> of<00:31:30.563> the<00:31:30.659> idea<00:31:30.964> and<00:31:31.076> this<00:31:31.237> is<00:31:31.301> something<00:31:31.622> I<00:31:31.702> should<00:31:31.863> pursue,<00:31:32.906> talking<00:31:33.227> to<00:31:33.291> Alex<00:31:33.548> being<00:31:33.773> your<00:31:33.869> co-founder,<00:31:34.832> talking<00:31:35.217> to<00:31:35.297> your<00:31:35.458> father,<00:31:36.501> getting<00:31:36.758> that<00:31:36.982> validation<00:31:37.448> is<00:31:37.560> a<00:31:37.624> big<00:31:37.801> deal,<00:31:38.667> working<00:31:38.924> with<00:31:39.085> Aiseni,<00:31:40.513> you<00:31:40.593> know,<00:31:40.706> them<00:31:41.155> putting<00:31:41.347> up<00:31:41.476> those<00:31:41.652> wireframes,<00:31:42.375> helping<00:31:42.680> you<00:31:42.776> build<00:31:43.001> the<00:31:43.081> product.

00:31:43.899 --> 00:31:46.114
That's<00:31:44.060> probably<00:31:44.365> another<00:31:44.621> validation<00:31:45.328> along<00:31:45.649> the<00:31:45.745> journey.

00:31:46.547 --> 00:31:51.169
But<00:31:46.692> then<00:31:47.655> that<00:31:47.895> meeting<00:31:48.152> that<00:31:48.297> you<00:31:48.329> just<00:31:48.473> mentioned<00:31:48.778> with<00:31:48.874> US<00:31:49.195> Bank<00:31:50.222> and<00:31:50.463> actually<00:31:50.720> selling.

00:31:51.862 --> 00:31:56.385
And<00:31:52.107> getting<00:31:52.434> them<00:31:52.956> to<00:31:53.169> understand,<00:31:53.838> like<00:31:53.985> you<00:31:54.018> said,<00:31:54.197> it<00:31:54.230> was<00:31:54.312> like<00:31:54.491> the<00:31:54.654> pitch<00:31:54.899> of<00:31:55.046> a<00:31:55.063> lifetime,<00:31:55.536> the<00:31:55.601> meeting<00:31:55.879> of<00:31:55.977> a<00:31:56.026> lifetime.

00:31:57.930 --> 00:32:00.250
Was<00:31:58.011> that<00:31:58.189> the<00:31:58.270> first<00:31:58.449> time<00:31:58.546> you're<00:31:58.676> like,<00:31:58.838> this<00:31:59.017> is<00:31:59.179> actually<00:31:59.422> going<00:31:59.520> to<00:31:59.666> be<00:31:59.763> something?

00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:04.988
Because,<00:32:01.435> you<00:32:01.532> know,<00:32:01.678> this<00:32:01.840> journey,<00:32:02.181> like,<00:32:02.489> who<00:32:02.652> knows<00:32:03.317> if<00:32:03.463> any<00:32:03.642> of<00:32:03.706> this<00:32:03.885> is<00:32:04.112> actually<00:32:04.372> going<00:32:04.518> to<00:32:04.615> be<00:32:04.696> anything?

00:32:08.177 --> 00:32:08.435
Oh,<00:32:08.209> yeah.

00:32:08.596 --> 00:32:08.854
Yeah.

00:32:08.919 --> 00:32:13.032
No,<00:32:09.709> that<00:32:10.306> is<00:32:11.161> no<00:32:11.483> doubt<00:32:12.306> the<00:32:12.613> meeting.

00:32:13.097 --> 00:32:18.268
And<00:32:13.177> that<00:32:13.419> was<00:32:13.597> the<00:32:13.758> end<00:32:13.935> of<00:32:14.210> May<00:32:14.421> of<00:32:14.567> 2016<00:32:16.434> where<00:32:16.596> we<00:32:16.758> knew<00:32:17.018> that<00:32:17.229> we<00:32:17.310> had<00:32:17.424> a<00:32:17.489> tiger<00:32:17.814> by<00:32:17.976> the<00:32:18.057> tail.

00:32:18.948 --> 00:32:30.671
And<00:32:20.409> not<00:32:20.794> just<00:32:20.971> because<00:32:21.308> of<00:32:21.437> how<00:32:21.613> they<00:32:21.774> received<00:32:22.336> it,<00:32:22.497> kind<00:32:22.657> of<00:32:22.721> their<00:32:22.818> emotional<00:32:23.364> response<00:32:23.846> to<00:32:23.926> the<00:32:24.022> presentation<00:32:24.600> we<00:32:24.729> gave,<00:32:25.371> but<00:32:25.451> then<00:32:25.628> what<00:32:25.789> materialized<00:32:26.576> afterwards,<00:32:27.073> which<00:32:27.314> was<00:32:28.037> an<00:32:28.294> agreement<00:32:28.904> that<00:32:29.065> had<00:32:29.322> real<00:32:29.546> revenue<00:32:29.964> baked<00:32:30.269> into<00:32:30.606> it.

00:32:31.233 --> 00:32:35.183
I<00:32:31.329> mean,<00:32:31.891> we<00:32:32.116> were<00:32:32.212> embarrassed<00:32:32.774> to<00:32:32.919> admit,<00:32:33.176> but<00:32:33.288> now<00:32:33.417> 5<00:32:33.722> years<00:32:33.898> later,<00:32:34.139> it's<00:32:34.444> fine<00:32:34.685> admitting<00:32:35.023> it.

00:32:35.344 --> 00:32:38.234
I<00:32:35.488> had<00:32:35.681> no<00:32:36.050> idea<00:32:36.468> what<00:32:36.709> interchange<00:32:37.351> was,<00:32:37.993> right?

00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:42.859
Interchange<00:32:38.877> being<00:32:39.198> the<00:32:39.342> revenue<00:32:39.776> or<00:32:39.920> the<00:32:40.001> transaction<00:32:40.723> fee<00:32:40.884> that<00:32:41.061> is<00:32:41.205> assessed<00:32:41.607> to<00:32:41.767> every<00:32:41.928> single<00:32:42.169> transaction.

00:32:43.357 --> 00:32:48.199
And<00:32:43.678> all<00:32:43.855> of<00:32:43.999> a<00:32:44.032> sudden,<00:32:44.417> they're<00:32:44.578> giving<00:32:44.834> us<00:32:45.043> this<00:32:45.204> contract<00:32:46.249> where<00:32:46.346> they're<00:32:46.652> giving<00:32:46.991> us<00:32:47.216> a<00:32:47.377> portion<00:32:47.780> of<00:32:47.893> that.

00:32:48.521 --> 00:32:50.051
Alex<00:32:48.779> and<00:32:48.924> I<00:32:49.004> were<00:32:49.165> like,<00:32:49.633> what?

00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:51.260
We<00:32:50.696> have<00:32:50.857> revenue.

00:32:51.324 --> 00:32:57.366
And<00:32:51.437> so,<00:32:53.418> we<00:32:53.580> obviously<00:32:53.837> became<00:32:54.143> experts<00:32:54.482> in<00:32:54.514> it<00:32:54.709> afterwards,<00:32:55.211> but<00:32:56.021> we<00:32:56.167> were<00:32:56.329> very<00:32:56.653> excited<00:32:57.075> by<00:32:57.156> that.

00:32:58.452 --> 00:33:06.244
At<00:32:58.533> what<00:32:58.760> point<00:32:59.343> did<00:32:59.570> you<00:32:59.732> start<00:33:00.316> thinking<00:33:00.818> about<00:33:01.515> raising<00:33:02.098> capital<00:33:02.973> from<00:33:03.962> venture<00:33:04.367> funds<00:33:04.998> or<00:33:05.176> taking<00:33:05.565> outside<00:33:05.904> capital?

00:33:06.293 --> 00:33:10.696
What<00:33:06.536> was<00:33:06.779> your<00:33:06.876> strategy<00:33:07.442> around<00:33:07.847> raising<00:33:08.252> money<00:33:08.511> throughout<00:33:09.612> the<00:33:09.709> early<00:33:09.952> days<00:33:10.275> of<00:33:10.437> Divvy?

00:33:15.238 --> 00:33:22.209
Our<00:33:15.398> strategy<00:33:16.504> from<00:33:16.744> day<00:33:17.065> one<00:33:17.946> was<00:33:18.283> to<00:33:18.667> optimize<00:33:19.228> for<00:33:19.388> control,<00:33:20.526> which<00:33:20.702> sounds<00:33:21.391> very,<00:33:21.712> very<00:33:22.032> weird.

00:33:22.994 --> 00:33:26.503
Um,<00:33:23.956> can<00:33:24.116> I<00:33:24.677> actually<00:33:24.997> answer<00:33:25.254> it<00:33:25.638> a<00:33:25.814> little<00:33:25.975> sideways?

00:33:26.632 --> 00:33:27.513
Of<00:33:27.209> course.

00:33:27.818 --> 00:33:35.750
There,<00:33:28.138> there<00:33:28.523> is<00:33:29.003> a<00:33:29.340> pretty<00:33:29.660> consistent<00:33:31.567> and<00:33:31.824> persistent<00:33:32.625> narrative<00:33:33.410> in<00:33:34.388> just<00:33:34.805> social<00:33:35.269> media.

00:33:35.894 --> 00:33:47.434
Really,<00:33:36.054> you<00:33:36.151> see<00:33:36.311> in<00:33:36.535> LinkedIn,<00:33:37.112> which<00:33:37.417> can<00:33:37.577> just<00:33:37.753> be<00:33:37.849> a<00:33:37.913> cesspool,<00:33:39.179> um,<00:33:39.756> but,<00:33:40.221> uh,<00:33:40.862> you<00:33:40.942> know,<00:33:41.519> bootstrap<00:33:41.984> businesses<00:33:42.721> versus<00:33:44.324> venture-backed<00:33:44.901> businesses<00:33:45.350> and<00:33:45.510> that<00:33:45.751> one<00:33:45.927> is<00:33:46.023> somehow<00:33:46.632> better<00:33:46.953> than<00:33:47.049> the<00:33:47.209> other.

00:33:48.075 --> 00:34:01.172
And<00:33:48.476> it's<00:33:48.812> so<00:33:49.037> disappointing<00:33:49.678> because,<00:33:50.560> you<00:33:50.592> know,<00:33:50.896> any<00:33:51.056> intelligent<00:33:51.698> individual<00:33:52.483> and<00:33:52.643> especially<00:33:53.044> adult<00:33:53.605> should<00:33:53.717> recognize<00:33:54.503> that,<00:33:55.304> you<00:33:55.385> know,<00:33:55.705> rarely<00:33:56.106> is<00:33:56.250> life<00:33:56.507> as<00:33:56.731> binary<00:33:57.292> as<00:33:57.453> that<00:33:58.414> and<00:33:58.591> that<00:33:58.895> they<00:33:59.873> both<00:34:00.434> can<00:34:00.659> be<00:34:00.819> great.

00:34:01.316 --> 00:34:02.935
They<00:34:01.556> both<00:34:01.941> can<00:34:02.278> be<00:34:02.502> bad.

00:34:03.239 --> 00:34:03.849
You<00:34:03.320> know<00:34:03.464> what<00:34:03.560> I<00:34:03.576> mean?

00:34:04.041 --> 00:34:06.397
And<00:34:04.185> there's<00:34:04.362> so<00:34:04.538> much<00:34:04.826> gray<00:34:05.323> that<00:34:05.484> exists<00:34:05.884> between<00:34:06.285> them.

00:34:07.151 --> 00:34:08.145
We<00:34:07.311> made<00:34:07.568> a<00:34:07.712> decision.

00:34:08.273 --> 00:34:10.261
I've<00:34:08.609> run<00:34:08.834> the<00:34:08.866> bootstrap<00:34:09.251> businesses,<00:34:09.812> like<00:34:09.972> I've<00:34:10.052> done<00:34:10.213> it.

00:34:10.437 --> 00:34:10.533
Oh<00:34:10.453> yeah.

00:34:10.613 --> 00:34:10.934
Great.

00:34:11.014 --> 00:34:14.541
That<00:34:11.415> was,<00:34:11.655> it<00:34:11.799> was<00:34:11.912> a<00:34:11.976> fantastic<00:34:12.537> experience<00:34:13.018> where<00:34:13.162> I<00:34:13.322> learned<00:34:13.643> a<00:34:14.044> hell<00:34:14.220> of<00:34:14.252> a<00:34:14.300> lot.

00:34:15.085 --> 00:34:26.128
Um,<00:34:15.502> but<00:34:15.823> as<00:34:15.919> a<00:34:15.968> venture-backed<00:34:16.385> business,<00:34:16.706> your<00:34:16.931> goals<00:34:17.268> are<00:34:17.428> different,<00:34:17.749> your<00:34:17.974> expectations<00:34:18.937> are<00:34:19.033> different<00:34:19.756> now<00:34:19.916> from<00:34:20.141> a<00:34:20.221> growth<00:34:20.558> perspective,<00:34:21.265> from<00:34:21.377> a<00:34:21.505> revenue<00:34:21.843> perspective,<00:34:22.404> from<00:34:22.565> a<00:34:22.645> customer<00:34:22.950> acquisition<00:34:23.464> perspective,<00:34:24.074> from<00:34:24.571> a<00:34:25.037> virality<00:34:25.615> perspective.

00:34:26.176 --> 00:34:29.467
So<00:34:26.417> you<00:34:26.738> use<00:34:27.059> the<00:34:27.140> capital<00:34:28.103> in<00:34:28.183> a<00:34:28.343> very<00:34:28.745> different<00:34:29.210> way.

00:34:29.949 --> 00:34:34.491
And<00:34:30.029> so<00:34:30.334> our<00:34:30.510> objective<00:34:31.393> was<00:34:31.634> to<00:34:31.859> get<00:34:32.051> Divvy<00:34:32.420> into<00:34:32.677> as<00:34:32.918> many<00:34:33.239> hands<00:34:33.576> as<00:34:33.705> humanly<00:34:34.042> possible.

00:34:34.925 --> 00:34:48.185
If<00:34:35.085> we<00:34:35.181> were<00:34:35.326> a<00:34:35.390> bootstrap<00:34:35.888> business<00:34:36.289> trying<00:34:36.594> to<00:34:36.674> do<00:34:36.851> that<00:34:37.011> against<00:34:37.477> other<00:34:37.653> fintechs<00:34:38.472> or<00:34:38.536> against<00:34:38.841> other<00:34:39.018> banks,<00:34:39.483> who<00:34:39.579> really<00:34:39.820> was<00:34:39.965> our<00:34:40.125> competition<00:34:40.639> at<00:34:40.767> that<00:34:40.944> time<00:34:41.169> that<00:34:41.265> had<00:34:41.425> massive<00:34:42.308> distribution<00:34:42.950> and<00:34:43.031> channels,<00:34:43.978> uh,<00:34:44.154> we<00:34:44.299> wouldn't<00:34:44.475> be<00:34:44.620> able<00:34:44.716> to<00:34:44.860> do<00:34:44.957> that,<00:34:45.117> invest<00:34:45.583> enough<00:34:45.824> capital<00:34:47.125> in<00:34:47.222> a<00:34:47.286> bootstrap<00:34:47.687> perspective.

00:34:48.250 --> 00:35:10.206
So<00:34:48.330> we<00:34:48.491> did<00:34:48.651> it<00:34:48.731> as<00:34:48.828> a<00:34:48.972> venture-backed<00:34:49.599> business,<00:34:50.482> but<00:34:51.285> we<00:34:51.526> wanted<00:34:51.928> to<00:34:52.104> preserve<00:34:52.731> control<00:34:53.470> as<00:34:53.566> a<00:34:53.630> venture-backed<00:34:54.112> business,<00:34:54.594> which<00:34:54.851> meant<00:34:55.959> that<00:34:56.441> when<00:34:56.826> offers<00:34:57.116> started<00:34:57.501> to<00:34:57.646> come,<00:34:58.850> we<00:34:58.995> weren't<00:34:59.236> always<00:34:59.477> looking<00:34:59.734> at<00:34:59.814> the<00:34:59.958> highest<00:35:00.296> valuation<00:35:01.484> because<00:35:01.741> sometimes<00:35:02.207> the<00:35:02.287> higher<00:35:02.544> valuation<00:35:03.251> would<00:35:03.428> come<00:35:03.749> with<00:35:04.086> an<00:35:04.215> additional<00:35:04.568> board<00:35:04.857> seat,<00:35:05.339> or<00:35:05.500> it<00:35:05.596> would<00:35:05.757> come<00:35:05.998> with<00:35:06.479> different<00:35:06.785> voting<00:35:07.122> rights,<00:35:07.523> or<00:35:07.604> it<00:35:07.748> would<00:35:07.845> come<00:35:08.310> with<00:35:09.531> more<00:35:09.692> dilution.

00:35:10.479 --> 00:35:11.041
I<00:35:10.495> don't<00:35:10.688> know,<00:35:10.880> right?

00:35:11.153 --> 00:35:12.165
It<00:35:11.282> always<00:35:11.539> came<00:35:11.844> with<00:35:11.940> something.

00:35:12.807 --> 00:35:14.588
Like<00:35:12.984> an<00:35:13.064> alternative<00:35:13.642> that<00:35:13.850> you<00:35:13.930> had<00:35:14.107> to<00:35:14.267> weigh.

00:35:15.294 --> 00:35:31.405
And<00:35:15.712> we<00:35:15.936> always<00:35:16.337> wanted<00:35:16.610> to<00:35:17.060> opt<00:35:17.316> for<00:35:17.541> control<00:35:18.359> where<00:35:18.921> not<00:35:19.146> only<00:35:19.322> would<00:35:19.483> I<00:35:19.643> end<00:35:19.820> up<00:35:19.964> being<00:35:20.124> the<00:35:20.205> largest<00:35:20.510> shareholder,<00:35:21.007> but<00:35:21.119> that<00:35:21.312> we'd<00:35:21.488> control<00:35:21.873> the<00:35:22.034> votes<00:35:22.692> at<00:35:22.772> the<00:35:22.852> board<00:35:23.173> level<00:35:23.558> because<00:35:23.895> we<00:35:24.056> believed,<00:35:24.441> Alex<00:35:24.858> and<00:35:24.938> I<00:35:25.099> and<00:35:25.195> then<00:35:25.323> my<00:35:25.484> executive<00:35:25.981> team,<00:35:26.463> that<00:35:26.687> we<00:35:26.800> knew<00:35:27.008> how<00:35:27.105> to<00:35:27.249> run<00:35:27.410> the<00:35:27.506> business,<00:35:27.907> not<00:35:28.212> the<00:35:28.292> investors,<00:35:28.806> not<00:35:28.950> the<00:35:29.030> venture<00:35:29.335> capitalists,<00:35:30.137> and<00:35:30.234> also<00:35:30.860> not<00:35:30.972> the<00:35:31.100> board.

00:35:31.758 --> 00:35:34.374
Even<00:35:31.903> if<00:35:31.999> they<00:35:32.143> had<00:35:32.304> our<00:35:32.464> best<00:35:32.641> interests<00:35:33.026> at<00:35:33.106> heart,<00:35:33.283> they<00:35:33.315> didn't<00:35:33.539> know<00:35:33.668> how<00:35:33.700> to<00:35:33.828> run<00:35:33.989> the<00:35:34.085> business.

00:35:35.112 --> 00:35:37.487
And<00:35:35.770> so<00:35:36.010> one,<00:35:36.251> that's<00:35:36.476> what<00:35:36.572> we<00:35:36.716> optimized<00:35:37.278> for.

00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:44.293
But<00:35:38.096> it,<00:35:38.514> so<00:35:39.220> it<00:35:39.525> was<00:35:40.259> probably<00:35:40.504> 2017<00:35:41.321> that<00:35:41.484> we<00:35:41.566> decided<00:35:42.203> to,<00:35:42.611> yes,<00:35:42.872> we're<00:35:43.019> going<00:35:43.101> to<00:35:43.183> become<00:35:43.379> a<00:35:43.444> venture-backed<00:35:43.934> business.

00:35:46.292 --> 00:35:54.140
First,<00:35:46.551> we<00:35:46.632> did<00:35:46.730> a<00:35:46.795> friends<00:35:47.054> and<00:35:47.184> family<00:35:47.444> round<00:35:47.752> that<00:35:47.850> was<00:35:47.996> pretty<00:35:48.174> material,<00:35:48.889> and<00:35:49.051> it<00:35:49.229> was<00:35:50.057> my<00:35:50.285> dad,<00:35:50.625> some<00:35:50.853> of<00:35:50.934> his<00:35:51.177> peers,<00:35:52.610> some<00:35:52.883> of<00:35:53.044> my<00:35:53.189> family<00:35:53.592> and<00:35:53.689> myself.

00:35:54.478 --> 00:36:02.815
We<00:35:54.574> funded<00:35:54.961> the<00:35:55.042> business<00:35:55.380> first,<00:35:56.249> and<00:35:56.829> then<00:35:57.151> we,<00:35:57.393> and<00:35:57.635> that<00:35:57.796> was<00:35:58.037> really<00:35:58.279> to<00:35:58.359> get<00:35:58.520> us<00:35:58.682> through<00:35:59.229> end<00:35:59.422> of<00:35:59.567> development<00:36:00.695> through<00:36:00.856> a<00:36:01.097> really<00:36:01.403> strong<00:36:01.742> beta,<00:36:02.620> right?

00:36:02.945 --> 00:36:09.766
Just<00:36:03.270> testing<00:36:03.758> the<00:36:03.839> hell<00:36:04.099> out<00:36:04.197> of<00:36:04.262> the<00:36:04.343> product<00:36:04.896> and<00:36:04.977> really<00:36:05.221> working<00:36:05.546> with<00:36:05.709> the<00:36:05.969> initial<00:36:06.294> customers<00:36:07.202> And<00:36:07.282> then<00:36:07.426> we<00:36:07.603> launched<00:36:07.987> in<00:36:08.148> January<00:36:08.820> of<00:36:08.981> 2018.

00:36:10.631 --> 00:36:13.932
January<00:36:11.128> 1st,<00:36:11.368> 2018<00:36:12.314> was<00:36:12.426> our<00:36:12.554> official<00:36:13.051> first<00:36:13.291> day<00:36:13.435> to<00:36:13.467> market.

00:36:15.198 --> 00:36:18.306
And<00:36:15.855> Divvy<00:36:16.239> was<00:36:16.560> received<00:36:17.361> just<00:36:17.778> really<00:36:18.178> well.

00:36:18.515 --> 00:36:19.428
So<00:36:18.675> that<00:36:18.835> was<00:36:18.979> exciting.

00:36:20.005 --> 00:36:25.917
And<00:36:20.646> probably<00:36:20.966> about<00:36:21.447> at<00:36:21.623> the<00:36:21.847> end<00:36:22.008> of<00:36:22.104> January,<00:36:22.985> I<00:36:23.065> started<00:36:23.370> to<00:36:23.402> get<00:36:23.610> a<00:36:23.690> lot<00:36:23.866> of<00:36:24.091> inbound<00:36:24.587> from<00:36:24.828> institutional<00:36:25.469> investors.

00:36:25.965 --> 00:36:29.154
So<00:36:26.110> like,<00:36:26.430> whoa,<00:36:27.392> this<00:36:27.696> is<00:36:27.856> like<00:36:28.097> a<00:36:28.177> crazy<00:36:28.834> idea.

00:36:29.234 --> 00:36:30.548
Like,<00:36:29.539> can<00:36:29.715> we<00:36:29.795> just<00:36:30.035> meet<00:36:30.276> with<00:36:30.436> you?

00:36:31.221 --> 00:36:42.024
And<00:36:31.317> it<00:36:31.381> was<00:36:31.542> really<00:36:31.718> fun<00:36:32.022> and<00:36:32.134> it<00:36:32.166> was<00:36:32.359> flattering,<00:36:33.000> but<00:36:33.096> that's<00:36:33.320> where<00:36:33.464> you<00:36:33.544> have<00:36:33.673> to<00:36:33.737> just<00:36:33.961> kind<00:36:34.250> and<00:36:34.682> put<00:36:34.843> it<00:36:34.923> into<00:36:35.163> check<00:36:35.500> and<00:36:35.804> make<00:36:35.965> sure,<00:36:36.189> you<00:36:36.285> know,<00:36:37.007> again,<00:36:37.311> what<00:36:37.472> you're<00:36:37.552> optimizing<00:36:38.209> for<00:36:39.010> and<00:36:40.694> what<00:36:40.854> you're<00:36:40.934> looking<00:36:41.255> for<00:36:41.399> in<00:36:41.479> investors.

00:36:42.136 --> 00:36:51.835
And<00:36:42.281> so<00:36:42.457> then<00:36:42.681> it<00:36:42.778> was<00:36:43.082> after<00:36:43.242> about<00:36:43.499> 5<00:36:43.739> months,<00:36:44.060> we<00:36:44.204> decided<00:36:44.541> to<00:36:44.621> take<00:36:44.861> an<00:36:44.926> investment<00:36:45.903> and<00:36:46.000> it<00:36:46.128> was<00:36:46.368> with<00:36:46.689> a<00:36:47.571> Utah<00:36:47.907> firm<00:36:48.388> called<00:36:48.693> Paleon<00:36:49.190> Ventures<00:36:50.071> and<00:36:50.216> they're<00:36:50.392> the<00:36:50.536> largest<00:36:50.937> fund<00:36:51.274> here<00:36:51.434> in<00:36:51.578> Utah.

00:36:51.915 --> 00:36:59.786
And<00:36:52.011> so<00:36:52.171> they<00:36:52.299> had<00:36:52.396> the<00:36:52.476> capacity<00:36:53.117> to<00:36:53.758> make<00:36:53.999> a<00:36:54.015> material<00:36:54.640> investment<00:36:55.201> as<00:36:55.361> a<00:36:55.377> Series<00:36:55.826> A<00:36:55.842> investment,<00:36:57.365> but<00:36:57.461> they<00:36:57.605> also<00:36:57.910> had<00:36:58.166> the<00:36:58.263> ability<00:36:58.808> to<00:36:58.952> follow<00:36:59.353> on,<00:36:59.609> right?

00:36:59.850 --> 00:37:04.819
To<00:36:59.994> continue<00:37:00.571> to,<00:37:00.972> if<00:37:01.116> they<00:37:01.212> believed<00:37:01.549> in<00:37:01.693> us,<00:37:02.254> to<00:37:02.398> continue<00:37:02.895> investing<00:37:03.537> in<00:37:03.633> us,<00:37:03.857> which<00:37:04.017> was<00:37:04.178> important<00:37:04.643> to<00:37:04.739> me.

00:37:06.327 --> 00:37:08.656
And<00:37:06.424> they<00:37:06.651> were<00:37:07.071> just<00:37:07.395> excellent,<00:37:07.864> excellent<00:37:08.284> partners.

00:37:10.306 --> 00:37:11.746
But<00:37:10.403> then<00:37:10.614> it<00:37:10.711> just,<00:37:10.969> it<00:37:11.099> went<00:37:11.260> fast.

00:37:12.085 --> 00:37:21.758
We<00:37:12.409> did<00:37:12.587> an<00:37:12.716> investment<00:37:13.218> like<00:37:13.525> 2<00:37:13.703> months<00:37:14.026> later<00:37:14.431> with<00:37:14.673> Insight<00:37:15.142> Ventures<00:37:15.547> out<00:37:15.724> of<00:37:16.614> New<00:37:16.841> York,<00:37:17.488> less<00:37:17.666> than<00:37:17.827> a<00:37:17.908> year<00:37:18.151> later<00:37:18.539> from<00:37:18.895> NEA<00:37:19.283> Ventures,<00:37:19.833> one<00:37:19.930> of<00:37:20.011> the<00:37:20.076> largest<00:37:20.739> Silicon<00:37:21.143> Valley<00:37:21.451> funds.

00:37:22.195 --> 00:37:28.994
But<00:37:22.356> in<00:37:22.599> every<00:37:22.939> single<00:37:23.327> round,<00:37:23.812> I<00:37:23.974> optimized<00:37:24.605> for<00:37:24.670> control<00:37:25.431> and<00:37:25.512> would<00:37:25.674> kind<00:37:25.900> of<00:37:26.224> push<00:37:26.354> some<00:37:26.581> of<00:37:26.645> the<00:37:26.807> other<00:37:27.115> investors<00:37:27.552> that<00:37:27.698> were<00:37:27.779> interested<00:37:28.411> to<00:37:28.508> the<00:37:28.589> side.

00:37:30.030 --> 00:37:42.077
And<00:37:30.290> we<00:37:30.435> were<00:37:30.597> really<00:37:30.840> happy<00:37:31.180> with<00:37:31.326> that<00:37:31.569> because<00:37:31.844> then<00:37:32.136> ultimately<00:37:32.719> when<00:37:34.254> when<00:37:34.975> the<00:37:35.136> business<00:37:35.536> got<00:37:35.777> really<00:37:36.113> difficult<00:37:37.781> during<00:37:38.021> the<00:37:38.165> height<00:37:38.358> of<00:37:38.502> Corona,<00:37:40.426> we<00:37:40.586> were<00:37:40.746> able<00:37:40.987> to<00:37:41.147> look<00:37:41.307> out<00:37:41.548> for<00:37:41.596> our<00:37:41.788> people.

00:37:42.333 --> 00:37:43.680
We<00:37:42.413> were<00:37:42.509> able<00:37:42.670> to<00:37:42.702> look<00:37:42.974> out<00:37:43.071> for<00:37:43.215> the<00:37:43.311> business.

00:37:44.337 --> 00:37:50.845
And<00:37:44.818> although<00:37:45.395> I<00:37:45.619> felt<00:37:45.796> an<00:37:45.892> accountability<00:37:46.918> to<00:37:47.078> investors,<00:37:49.002> they<00:37:49.547> were<00:37:49.579> never<00:37:49.964> in<00:37:50.044> the<00:37:50.188> driver's<00:37:50.557> seat.

00:37:51.150 --> 00:37:57.402
I<00:37:51.166> was<00:37:51.326> able<00:37:51.647> to<00:37:52.112> look<00:37:52.272> at<00:37:52.352> my<00:37:52.512> executive<00:37:53.073> team,<00:37:53.811> kind<00:37:53.955> of<00:37:54.356> shut<00:37:54.612> the<00:37:54.692> door<00:37:55.189> from<00:37:55.478> the<00:37:55.574> investors<00:37:56.055> and<00:37:56.135> say,<00:37:56.600> what<00:37:56.760> are<00:37:56.840> we<00:37:56.937> going<00:37:57.097> to<00:37:57.241> do?

00:37:57.802 --> 00:37:59.309
How<00:37:57.979> are<00:37:58.123> we<00:37:58.219> going<00:37:58.315> to<00:37:58.395> solve<00:37:58.684> these<00:37:58.860> problems?

00:37:59.886 --> 00:38:04.278
And<00:38:00.239> man,<00:38:00.479> am<00:38:00.608> I<00:38:00.704> glad<00:38:01.024> that<00:38:01.169> we<00:38:01.265> had<00:38:01.425> that<00:38:01.585> clarity<00:38:02.227> back<00:38:02.563> in<00:38:02.788> before<00:38:03.172> we<00:38:03.269> raised<00:38:03.589> our<00:38:03.733> first<00:38:03.974> round.

00:38:05.112 --> 00:38:08.991
Because<00:38:05.513> I<00:38:05.817> feel<00:38:05.978> like<00:38:06.154> obviously<00:38:06.539> in<00:38:06.635> hindsight,<00:38:07.533> it<00:38:07.597> was<00:38:07.741> the<00:38:07.821> right<00:38:08.078> thing<00:38:08.158> to<00:38:08.302> focus<00:38:08.623> on<00:38:08.719> for<00:38:08.943> us.

00:38:10.081 --> 00:38:12.791
By<00:38:10.226> the<00:38:10.322> way,<00:38:10.482> Pelion<00:38:10.947> Ventures<00:38:11.236> doesn't<00:38:11.444> get<00:38:11.588> enough<00:38:11.845> national<00:38:12.566> pub.

00:38:12.871 --> 00:38:16.510
They've<00:38:13.047> been<00:38:13.191> behind<00:38:13.688> some<00:38:13.865> incredible<00:38:15.131> huge<00:38:16.237> companies.

00:38:16.638 --> 00:38:22.168
I<00:38:16.734> know<00:38:16.974> everyone<00:38:17.359> always<00:38:17.616> talks<00:38:17.872> about<00:38:18.658> like<00:38:18.898> Andreessen<00:38:19.443> Horowitz<00:38:20.341> and<00:38:20.437> Sequoia<00:38:21.784> and<00:38:21.864> Insight.

00:38:22.248 --> 00:38:25.310
Insight's<00:38:22.569> another<00:38:22.970> legendary<00:38:23.547> firm<00:38:23.932> that<00:38:24.653> you<00:38:24.733> got<00:38:24.813> to<00:38:24.909> work<00:38:25.134> with.

00:38:25.775 --> 00:38:29.109
But<00:38:25.871> Pelion<00:38:26.432> Ventures,<00:38:26.977> man,<00:38:28.099> unbelievable<00:38:28.677> team<00:38:28.917> over<00:38:29.061> there.

00:38:29.157 --> 00:38:33.886
Blake<00:38:29.398> Moderitzky,<00:38:30.825> who<00:38:31.001> is<00:38:31.097> the<00:38:31.161> managing<00:38:31.626> partner<00:38:32.043> over<00:38:32.203> there,<00:38:32.444> just<00:38:32.925> unbelievable<00:38:33.566> people.

00:38:34.191 --> 00:38:36.515
Here's<00:38:35.329> my<00:38:35.473> question<00:38:35.970> around<00:38:36.355> that<00:38:36.467> though.

00:38:37.828 --> 00:38:39.131
Who's<00:38:38.101> advising<00:38:39.051> you?

00:38:39.534 --> 00:38:40.483
Who<00:38:39.743> are<00:38:39.840> you<00:38:40.017> listening<00:38:40.403> to?

00:38:40.564 --> 00:38:45.521
Who's<00:38:40.821> coaching<00:38:41.369> you<00:38:42.173> that<00:38:42.576> optimizing<00:38:43.381> for<00:38:43.622> control<00:38:44.137> is<00:38:44.298> going<00:38:44.427> to<00:38:44.524> be<00:38:44.620> important<00:38:45.087> back<00:38:45.328> then?

00:38:49.464 --> 00:38:50.535
Or<00:38:49.549> is<00:38:49.651> that<00:38:49.804> just<00:38:50.042> instinctive?

00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:54.152
Because<00:38:51.972> that's—<00:38:52.957> it<00:38:53.022> was<00:38:53.328> rare,<00:38:53.732> as<00:38:53.893> you<00:38:54.071> know.

00:38:54.942 --> 00:38:56.088
It<00:38:55.104> was<00:38:55.346> instinctive.

00:38:56.314 --> 00:38:58.477
It<00:38:56.411> was<00:38:56.799> the<00:38:57.073> nobody<00:38:57.525> told<00:38:57.703> me<00:38:57.864> to<00:38:58.009> do<00:38:58.171> that.

00:38:59.076 --> 00:39:06.935
It<00:38:59.173> was<00:38:59.481> trying<00:38:59.741> to<00:38:59.822> pay<00:39:00.000> attention<00:39:00.552> to<00:39:00.714> the<00:39:00.795> horror<00:39:01.120> stories<00:39:01.687> that<00:39:01.834> you<00:39:01.996> read<00:39:02.174> about<00:39:02.726> in,<00:39:02.985> in<00:39:03.148> Twitter<00:39:04.578> of<00:39:04.674> kind<00:39:04.851> of<00:39:04.979> the<00:39:05.396> nasty<00:39:05.877> side<00:39:06.117> of<00:39:06.182> venture<00:39:06.438> capital.

00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:09.822
I<00:39:07.465> think<00:39:07.625> there<00:39:07.721> are<00:39:07.898> some<00:39:08.844> from<00:39:09.084> Utah,<00:39:09.710> right?

00:39:09.886 --> 00:39:14.200
You<00:39:09.966> just<00:39:10.127> kind<00:39:10.287> of<00:39:10.351> get<00:39:10.528> to<00:39:10.608> know<00:39:10.848> the<00:39:11.009> ecosystem<00:39:11.730> of<00:39:11.875> the<00:39:11.971> community<00:39:12.516> you're<00:39:12.757> in,<00:39:13.270> or<00:39:13.398> you<00:39:13.430> should<00:39:13.815> at<00:39:13.975> least.

00:39:14.841 --> 00:39:20.518
And<00:39:15.098> there's<00:39:15.290> some<00:39:15.499> horror<00:39:15.755> stories<00:39:16.445> of<00:39:16.766> where<00:39:16.862> investors<00:39:17.824> kind<00:39:17.985> of<00:39:18.466> took<00:39:18.610> control<00:39:19.027> of<00:39:19.107> businesses<00:39:19.668> and<00:39:19.749> took<00:39:19.845> them<00:39:19.989> sideways.

00:39:21.256 --> 00:39:23.004
And<00:39:21.352> I<00:39:21.432> just<00:39:21.657> never<00:39:21.914> wanted<00:39:22.218> that<00:39:22.475> to<00:39:22.619> happen.

00:39:23.902 --> 00:39:29.323
From<00:39:24.159> a<00:39:24.223> very<00:39:24.399> selfish<00:39:24.864> perspective,<00:39:25.345> I<00:39:25.361> didn't<00:39:25.602> want<00:39:25.762> it<00:39:25.843> to<00:39:25.939> happen<00:39:26.163> to<00:39:26.243> me,<00:39:26.885> and<00:39:26.965> certainly<00:39:27.366> we<00:39:27.462> didn't<00:39:27.687> want<00:39:27.847> it<00:39:27.991> to<00:39:28.072> happen<00:39:28.392> to<00:39:28.473> our<00:39:28.569> team<00:39:28.809> members<00:39:29.130> here.

00:39:29.547 --> 00:39:34.826
So<00:39:30.296> So,<00:39:30.747> yeah,<00:39:31.070> I<00:39:31.376> think<00:39:31.489> it<00:39:31.634> just<00:39:31.956> was<00:39:32.666> a<00:39:32.924> decision<00:39:33.488> that<00:39:33.714> Alex<00:39:33.972> and<00:39:34.052> I<00:39:34.068> made<00:39:34.375> early<00:39:34.681> on.

00:39:36.067 --> 00:39:39.485
You<00:39:36.148> said<00:39:36.325> something<00:39:36.712> early<00:39:37.035> on<00:39:37.212> in<00:39:37.277> this<00:39:37.438> conversation<00:39:38.002> that<00:39:38.147> I<00:39:38.228> want<00:39:38.373> to<00:39:38.727> circle<00:39:39.114> back<00:39:39.292> on.

00:39:41.292 --> 00:39:48.649
It<00:39:41.325> was<00:39:41.534> probably<00:39:41.744> like<00:39:41.889> a<00:39:41.954> throwaway<00:39:42.357> line,<00:39:42.518> but<00:39:42.615> I<00:39:42.631> don't<00:39:42.777> know,<00:39:42.986> like,<00:39:43.164> as<00:39:43.309> you've<00:39:43.470> been<00:39:43.567> talking<00:39:44.132> this<00:39:44.277> whole<00:39:44.454> time,<00:39:45.084> it<00:39:45.164> stuck<00:39:45.503> with<00:39:45.664> me<00:39:46.632> because<00:39:46.778> I<00:39:46.874> think<00:39:47.181> our<00:39:47.278> personalities<00:39:47.762> are<00:39:47.842> actually<00:39:48.084> quite<00:39:48.262> similar.

00:39:48.730 --> 00:39:58.552
You<00:39:48.940> say<00:39:49.116> like,<00:39:49.373> "Hey,<00:39:50.241> I<00:39:50.321> can<00:39:50.482> turn<00:39:50.675> it<00:39:50.803> on<00:39:52.250> and<00:39:52.571> be<00:39:53.535> a<00:39:53.631> leader<00:39:54.676> and<00:39:54.740> I<00:39:54.837> can<00:39:54.997> turn<00:39:55.238> on<00:39:55.479> being<00:39:55.801> the<00:39:55.881> CEO,<00:39:56.524> but<00:39:56.701> my<00:39:56.925> preference<00:39:57.424> is<00:39:57.552> actually<00:39:57.890> not<00:39:58.082> to<00:39:58.147> do<00:39:58.195> that."<00:39:58.392> that.

00:39:58.648 --> 00:39:59.996
It's<00:39:59.418> very<00:39:59.579> much<00:39:59.739> like<00:39:59.900> me.

00:40:00.076 --> 00:40:06.910
Like,<00:40:00.301> I,<00:40:00.493> I<00:40:00.958> don't<00:40:01.183> know<00:40:01.263> if<00:40:01.359> I<00:40:01.440> can<00:40:01.600> turn<00:40:01.744> it<00:40:01.841> on<00:40:01.985> as<00:40:02.081> well<00:40:02.242> as<00:40:02.338> you,<00:40:02.482> but,<00:40:02.964> but<00:40:03.044> I'm<00:40:03.204> certainly<00:40:03.846> like<00:40:04.327> the<00:40:04.472> type<00:40:04.744> of<00:40:04.809> person<00:40:05.113> who<00:40:05.194> would<00:40:05.306> much<00:40:05.530> rather<00:40:05.851> like<00:40:06.012> read,<00:40:06.734> right?

00:40:06.990 --> 00:40:10.552
Or<00:40:07.119> just<00:40:07.295> be<00:40:07.455> alone<00:40:08.001> or<00:40:08.097> go<00:40:08.258> for<00:40:08.418> walks<00:40:08.675> or<00:40:08.739> go<00:40:08.899> for<00:40:09.044> runs<00:40:09.717> or<00:40:09.846> whatever<00:40:10.263> it<00:40:10.407> is.

00:40:10.664 --> 00:40:10.856
Right.

00:40:11.610 --> 00:40:21.990
And<00:40:12.011> this<00:40:12.172> whole<00:40:12.429> idea<00:40:13.215> of<00:40:13.375> like<00:40:13.776> you<00:40:14.033> being<00:40:14.498> able<00:40:14.915> to<00:40:15.076> turn<00:40:15.332> it<00:40:15.461> on,<00:40:16.102> I'd<00:40:16.182> love<00:40:16.295> to<00:40:16.423> explore<00:40:16.920> that<00:40:17.723> a<00:40:17.867> little<00:40:18.043> bit<00:40:18.284> more<00:40:18.846> with<00:40:19.150> you,<00:40:20.129> what<00:40:20.353> that<00:40:20.514> means,<00:40:21.332> what<00:40:21.492> that<00:40:21.589> means.

00:40:22.214 --> 00:40:25.885
And,<00:40:23.161> uh,<00:40:23.257> just<00:40:23.482> overall<00:40:23.883> how<00:40:24.123> you<00:40:24.236> experience<00:40:25.707> that?

00:40:26.030 --> 00:40:28.147
Because<00:40:26.111> you<00:40:26.208> really<00:40:26.434> can<00:40:26.693> kind<00:40:26.855> of<00:40:27.000> turn<00:40:27.323> things<00:40:27.565> on<00:40:27.679> and<00:40:27.808> off,<00:40:28.066> huh?

00:40:28.971 --> 00:40:30.458
A<00:40:29.068> lot<00:40:29.214> of<00:40:29.262> people<00:40:29.472> don't<00:40:29.601> talk<00:40:29.844> about<00:40:30.070> that<00:40:30.248> piece.

00:40:35.507 --> 00:40:35.830
Yeah.

00:40:35.911 --> 00:40:37.234
What<00:40:35.991> do<00:40:36.040> you<00:40:36.072> want<00:40:36.233> me<00:40:36.379> to<00:40:36.411> start<00:40:36.717> with<00:40:36.959> on<00:40:37.040> that?

00:40:38.557 --> 00:40:42.946
Well,<00:40:39.380> when<00:40:39.541> you<00:40:39.638> said<00:40:40.025> that,<00:40:40.445> so<00:40:40.590> when<00:40:40.735> you<00:40:40.767> said<00:40:40.993> that<00:40:41.155> again,<00:40:41.397> like,<00:40:41.542> the<00:40:41.800> light<00:40:42.042> bulb<00:40:42.203> just<00:40:42.429> went<00:40:42.591> off<00:40:42.768> on<00:40:42.849> me.

00:40:42.994 --> 00:40:45.010
I'm<00:40:43.091> like,<00:40:44.011> turn<00:40:44.285> it<00:40:44.785> on.

00:40:45.268 --> 00:40:49.811
That's<00:40:45.429> fascinating<00:40:46.476> that<00:40:46.782> he<00:40:46.943> can<00:40:47.105> turn<00:40:47.346> on<00:40:47.523> being<00:40:47.830> like<00:40:48.007> this<00:40:48.168> incredible<00:40:48.651> kind<00:40:48.877> of<00:40:49.360> leader.

00:40:50.005 --> 00:40:51.809
You've<00:40:50.166> said<00:40:50.343> like,<00:40:50.633> hey,<00:40:50.746> I<00:40:50.810> can<00:40:50.987> be<00:40:51.148> persuasive.

00:40:51.857 --> 00:40:56.347
I<00:40:51.954> can<00:40:52.582> do<00:40:52.679> this<00:40:52.776> type<00:40:52.937> of<00:40:54.416> stuff,<00:40:54.935> but<00:40:55.048> your<00:40:55.178> preference<00:40:55.535> is<00:40:55.698> not<00:40:55.990> to<00:40:56.087> do<00:40:56.249> that.

00:40:56.412 --> 00:41:00.306
And<00:40:56.493> so,<00:40:57.223> what<00:40:57.320> does<00:40:57.694> that<00:40:57.969> mean<00:40:58.278> to<00:40:58.505> you<00:40:59.479> and<00:40:59.560> how<00:40:59.738> do<00:40:59.819> you<00:40:59.982> do<00:41:00.128> that?

00:41:01.857 --> 00:41:02.356
Yeah.

00:41:02.822 --> 00:41:12.940
It<00:41:03.015> means<00:41:05.008> being<00:41:05.812> my—<00:41:07.162> and<00:41:07.403> this<00:41:07.661> is<00:41:07.902> just<00:41:08.304> Business<00:41:08.786> Buds<00:41:09.268> buzzwords<00:41:10.056> like<00:41:11.120> garbage<00:41:11.667> fest<00:41:12.247> in<00:41:12.505> a<00:41:12.570> second.

00:41:12.989 --> 00:41:18.467
So,<00:41:13.279> just<00:41:14.020> pardon<00:41:14.342> me,<00:41:15.631> but<00:41:15.937> it<00:41:16.098> is<00:41:16.501> being<00:41:16.839> my<00:41:17.307> authentic<00:41:18.144> self.

00:41:19.042 --> 00:41:21.223
And<00:41:19.363> unfiltered<00:41:20.245> in<00:41:20.405> just<00:41:20.645> who<00:41:20.870> I<00:41:21.126> am.

00:41:22.088 --> 00:41:26.272
I<00:41:22.168> don't<00:41:22.393> have<00:41:22.713> versions<00:41:23.515> of<00:41:23.675> who<00:41:23.852> I<00:41:24.092> am,<00:41:24.413> and<00:41:24.493> so<00:41:24.637> I<00:41:24.653> don't<00:41:24.878> want<00:41:25.118> that<00:41:25.310> to<00:41:25.455> be<00:41:25.615> misconstrued.

00:41:26.336 --> 00:41:33.278
And<00:41:26.401> so<00:41:26.561> when<00:41:26.657> I<00:41:26.737> turn<00:41:26.978> it<00:41:27.122> on,<00:41:27.940> it's<00:41:28.180> the<00:41:28.324> type<00:41:28.661> of<00:41:28.821> Blake<00:41:29.222> that<00:41:29.543> my<00:41:29.767> wife<00:41:30.088> would<00:41:30.200> see,<00:41:30.504> my<00:41:30.649> brother<00:41:31.050> would<00:41:31.162> see,<00:41:31.771> my<00:41:31.867> close-knit<00:41:32.588> group<00:41:32.765> of<00:41:32.893> friends.

00:41:33.614 --> 00:41:40.828
Totally<00:41:34.095> unfiltered,<00:41:35.089> sometimes<00:41:35.795> a<00:41:35.811> little<00:41:36.099> hotheaded,<00:41:36.676> sometimes<00:41:37.157> a<00:41:37.221> little<00:41:37.398> crass,<00:41:38.841> but<00:41:39.225> just<00:41:40.267> one<00:41:40.428> of<00:41:40.668> you.

00:41:41.550 --> 00:41:59.570
And<00:41:41.967> I've<00:41:42.143> never<00:41:43.153> loved<00:41:43.634> the,<00:41:43.874> the<00:41:44.035> idea<00:41:45.085> of<00:41:45.264> being<00:41:45.492> a<00:41:45.509> figurehead<00:41:46.176> CEO<00:41:47.299> or<00:41:47.543> somehow<00:41:48.943> needing<00:41:49.496> to,<00:41:52.515> I<00:41:52.548> don't<00:41:53.242> know,<00:41:54.275> of<00:41:55.502> trying<00:41:56.067> to<00:41:56.455> be<00:41:56.568> somebody<00:41:57.116> that<00:41:57.229> I'm<00:41:57.423> not<00:41:58.069> and<00:41:58.392> to<00:41:58.715> act<00:41:59.054> the<00:41:59.215> part.

00:41:59.942 --> 00:42:18.094
So<00:42:00.103> my<00:42:00.491> version<00:42:00.910> of<00:42:01.040> turning<00:42:01.395> it<00:42:01.541> on<00:42:03.562> is<00:42:05.907> expecting<00:42:06.569> a<00:42:06.586> lot<00:42:06.828> of<00:42:06.958> people,<00:42:07.685> asking<00:42:08.106> a<00:42:08.170> lot<00:42:08.348> of<00:42:08.494> people,<00:42:09.157> both<00:42:09.561> verbally<00:42:10.434> and<00:42:10.613> through<00:42:10.927> action,<00:42:12.431> but<00:42:12.580> it's<00:42:12.762> because,<00:42:13.423> and<00:42:13.506> I'll<00:42:13.737> only<00:42:14.002> do<00:42:14.184> that<00:42:14.994> because<00:42:15.540> I<00:42:15.637> know<00:42:15.813> that<00:42:16.022> I<00:42:16.183> have<00:42:16.295> a<00:42:16.359> track<00:42:16.681> record<00:42:17.002> of<00:42:17.162> doing<00:42:17.403> it<00:42:17.484> myself.

00:42:18.447 --> 00:42:25.514
And<00:42:18.528> so<00:42:18.688> it<00:42:18.833> gives<00:42:19.106> me<00:42:19.411> incredible<00:42:19.957> confidence<00:42:20.535> to<00:42:20.953> stand<00:42:21.419> in<00:42:21.579> front<00:42:21.756> of<00:42:21.836> a<00:42:21.981> room<00:42:22.864> and<00:42:23.250> absolutely<00:42:23.972> expect<00:42:24.486> it<00:42:24.615> from<00:42:24.792> the<00:42:24.872> rest<00:42:25.193> of<00:42:25.257> the<00:42:25.354> room.

00:42:26.141 --> 00:42:34.734
And<00:42:26.237> so<00:42:26.462> I've<00:42:26.639> always<00:42:26.944> tried<00:42:27.281> to<00:42:27.506> lead<00:42:27.747> by<00:42:27.924> example,<00:42:29.192> um,<00:42:29.915> and,<00:42:30.397> and<00:42:30.734> then<00:42:31.056> I<00:42:31.136> will<00:42:31.762> ask<00:42:32.180> them<00:42:32.485> to<00:42:32.581> follow<00:42:33.160> the<00:42:33.304> example<00:42:33.850> that<00:42:34.027> I<00:42:34.252> have<00:42:34.445> set.

00:42:35.232 --> 00:42:37.047
That<00:42:35.408> sounds<00:42:35.794> really<00:42:36.099> weird,<00:42:36.356> and<00:42:36.436> I<00:42:36.517> hate<00:42:36.838> talking—.

00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:37.785
No,<00:42:37.384> it<00:42:37.480> doesn't.

00:42:38.524 --> 00:42:39.247
No,<00:42:38.685> no,<00:42:38.845> no,<00:42:39.086> no.

00:42:39.424 --> 00:42:40.339
Like,<00:42:39.665> it's<00:42:39.873> so<00:42:39.970> uncomfortable.

00:42:41.077 --> 00:42:47.266
But,<00:42:41.975> but<00:42:43.113> storytelling<00:42:43.979> has<00:42:44.203> also<00:42:44.620> been<00:42:45.422> just<00:42:45.598> naturally<00:42:46.207> quite<00:42:46.608> easy<00:42:46.945> for<00:42:47.089> me.

00:42:47.731 --> 00:43:01.503
I<00:42:47.763> mean,<00:42:48.051> storytelling<00:42:48.709> is<00:42:48.741> such<00:42:49.125> an<00:42:49.206> important<00:42:49.655> skill<00:42:49.991> as<00:42:50.152> a<00:42:50.216> CEO,<00:42:51.033> from<00:42:51.739> recruiting<00:42:52.797> to<00:42:54.016> maintaining<00:42:54.785> and<00:42:54.881> increasing<00:42:55.442> buy-in<00:42:55.988> from<00:42:56.084> the<00:42:56.228> people<00:42:56.549> you<00:42:56.581> already<00:42:56.950> have,<00:42:58.008> to<00:42:58.328> getting<00:42:58.633> investors,<00:42:59.451> to<00:43:00.012> your<00:43:00.156> first<00:43:00.429> sales<00:43:00.814> and<00:43:00.958> customers.

00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:09.455
It<00:43:02.257> is<00:43:02.481> just<00:43:02.882> absolutely<00:43:03.764> critical<00:43:04.261> to,<00:43:05.126> I<00:43:05.367> would<00:43:05.543> suggest,<00:43:06.008> not<00:43:06.185> just<00:43:06.345> to<00:43:06.425> be,<00:43:06.826> being<00:43:07.066> a<00:43:07.131> great<00:43:07.371> CEO,<00:43:07.948> but<00:43:08.109> really<00:43:08.509> any<00:43:08.814> leader<00:43:09.071> and<00:43:09.151> executive.

00:43:10.034 --> 00:43:15.431
The<00:43:10.178> best<00:43:10.499> leaders<00:43:10.901> are<00:43:11.238> incredible,<00:43:11.849> incredible<00:43:12.202> storytellers<00:43:13.407> because<00:43:13.728> they<00:43:13.809> don't<00:43:14.034> just<00:43:14.355> tell<00:43:14.757> you<00:43:14.853> what<00:43:15.014> to<00:43:15.174> do.

00:43:15.881 --> 00:43:21.086
They<00:43:16.042> persuade<00:43:16.700> you<00:43:16.861> that<00:43:17.327> you<00:43:17.728> want<00:43:18.050> to<00:43:18.226> do<00:43:18.403> it,<00:43:19.014> like<00:43:19.576> deeply,<00:43:20.138> you<00:43:20.315> want<00:43:20.556> to<00:43:20.716> do<00:43:20.877> it.

00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:23.351
And<00:43:21.825> so,<00:43:21.937> they<00:43:22.082> awaken<00:43:22.564> something<00:43:23.030> in<00:43:23.126> you.

00:43:24.556 --> 00:43:30.693
And<00:43:24.652> the<00:43:24.797> only<00:43:24.974> way<00:43:25.134> that<00:43:25.359> I<00:43:25.456> know<00:43:25.680> how<00:43:25.921> to<00:43:26.082> awaken<00:43:27.062> people<00:43:27.769> is<00:43:28.026> to<00:43:28.170> lead<00:43:28.427> by<00:43:28.652> example<00:43:29.311> and<00:43:29.456> then<00:43:29.632> to<00:43:29.777> ask<00:43:30.018> them<00:43:30.114> to<00:43:30.275> follow<00:43:30.532> me.

00:43:32.026 --> 00:43:36.717
And<00:43:32.106> I<00:43:32.588> want<00:43:32.749> to<00:43:33.166> just,<00:43:33.568> for<00:43:33.729> those<00:43:33.970> listening,<00:43:34.179> because<00:43:34.371> I<00:43:34.516> think<00:43:34.757> everything<00:43:35.239> that<00:43:35.399> you<00:43:35.496> just<00:43:35.673> said<00:43:35.978> is<00:43:36.138> so<00:43:36.347> important.

00:43:36.942 --> 00:43:43.004
Important<00:43:37.647> for<00:43:37.744> people<00:43:38.209> who<00:43:38.545> are<00:43:38.770> leaders<00:43:39.107> now,<00:43:39.412> want<00:43:39.604> to<00:43:39.684> be<00:43:39.829> leaders,<00:43:40.133> want<00:43:40.278> to<00:43:40.310> be<00:43:40.454> entrepreneurs,<00:43:40.855> want<00:43:40.999> to<00:43:41.031> start<00:43:41.256> companies,<00:43:42.218> all<00:43:42.250> that<00:43:42.475> type<00:43:42.651> of<00:43:42.731> stuff.

00:43:43.598 --> 00:43:48.136
And<00:43:43.918> I<00:43:44.079> want—<00:43:44.303> you<00:43:44.464> mentioned<00:43:44.865> this<00:43:45.041> in<00:43:45.185> here,<00:43:45.362> and<00:43:45.442> I<00:43:45.602> want<00:43:45.763> to<00:43:45.843> double-click<00:43:46.420> on<00:43:46.549> it<00:43:46.629> for<00:43:46.789> those<00:43:46.966> who<00:43:47.126> are<00:43:47.351> listening<00:43:47.687> or<00:43:47.768> watching.

00:43:49.115 --> 00:43:55.578
What<00:43:49.275> you're<00:43:49.532> talking<00:43:49.917> about<00:43:50.157> is<00:43:50.318> not<00:43:50.638> manipulation,<00:43:52.499> which<00:43:52.723> a<00:43:52.739> lot<00:43:52.916> of<00:43:53.044> people<00:43:53.365> could,<00:43:53.942> uh,<00:43:54.424> perceive<00:43:54.905> it<00:43:54.985> as,<00:43:55.450> right?

00:43:55.707 --> 00:44:00.646
As<00:43:55.851> though<00:43:55.947> like,<00:43:56.348> this<00:43:56.589> is<00:43:56.749> like<00:43:56.974> the<00:43:57.134> way<00:43:57.471> I'm<00:43:57.695> able<00:43:58.032> to<00:43:58.898> manipulate<00:43:59.556> people<00:43:59.812> into<00:43:59.973> doing<00:44:00.197> what<00:44:00.342> I<00:44:00.518> want.

00:44:00.743 --> 00:44:02.090
That's<00:44:00.919> not<00:44:01.160> what<00:44:01.625> you're<00:44:01.801> talking<00:44:02.026> about.

00:44:02.138 --> 00:44:02.940
It's<00:44:02.266> not<00:44:02.363> what<00:44:02.507> I'm<00:44:02.603> talking<00:44:02.828> about.

00:44:02.988 --> 00:44:04.063
That's<00:44:03.084> not<00:44:03.229> what<00:44:03.277> this<00:44:03.405> conversation<00:44:03.982> is.

00:44:04.367 --> 00:44:06.212
And<00:44:04.432> I<00:44:04.528> think<00:44:04.672> it's<00:44:04.768> important<00:44:05.169> that<00:44:05.330> I<00:44:05.650> bring<00:44:05.811> that<00:44:05.971> up<00:44:06.100> here.

00:44:06.773 --> 00:44:07.928
This<00:44:07.014> isn't<00:44:07.335> manipulation.

00:44:07.976 --> 00:44:10.414
What—<00:44:08.201> like<00:44:08.313> what<00:44:08.441> you<00:44:08.473> said,<00:44:08.682> it's<00:44:08.762> like<00:44:09.083> being<00:44:09.324> your<00:44:09.484> authentic<00:44:10.061> self.

00:44:10.944 --> 00:44:14.922
As<00:44:11.040> you<00:44:11.120> said<00:44:11.425> that,<00:44:11.585> I<00:44:11.649> was<00:44:11.810> thinking<00:44:12.002> about<00:44:12.291> this<00:44:12.612> episode<00:44:13.334> of<00:44:13.494> Comedians<00:44:14.071> in<00:44:14.216> Cars<00:44:14.472> Getting<00:44:14.697> Coffee.

00:44:15.034 --> 00:44:16.333
I<00:44:15.066> don't<00:44:15.194> know<00:44:15.274> if<00:44:15.419> you've<00:44:15.916> seen<00:44:16.221> that.

00:44:16.413 --> 00:44:17.312
It's<00:44:16.622> Jerry<00:44:16.814> Seinfeld.

00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:19.621
He<00:44:17.440> drives<00:44:17.745> around<00:44:17.985> in<00:44:18.065> old<00:44:18.242> cars<00:44:18.964> with<00:44:19.124> comedians.

00:44:19.685 --> 00:44:20.520
Yeah,<00:44:19.830> I've<00:44:19.878> seen<00:44:20.022> it<00:44:20.054> every<00:44:20.167> now<00:44:20.247> and<00:44:20.407> then.

00:44:21.273 --> 00:44:28.139
He<00:44:21.434> has<00:44:21.771> this<00:44:22.091> episode<00:44:22.492> with<00:44:22.653> Dave<00:44:22.877> Chappelle,<00:44:23.455> who's<00:44:23.599> maybe<00:44:23.856> the<00:44:23.936> most<00:44:24.321> prominent<00:44:24.882> and,<00:44:25.139> you<00:44:25.219> know,<00:44:25.316> famous<00:44:25.861> and<00:44:26.567> greatest<00:44:26.887> comedian<00:44:27.288> of<00:44:27.369> our<00:44:27.625> generation.

00:44:28.411 --> 00:44:29.951
All<00:44:28.443> that's<00:44:28.668> arguable,<00:44:29.133> but<00:44:29.213> he's<00:44:29.374> certainly<00:44:29.711> up<00:44:29.855> there.

00:44:30.898 --> 00:44:32.935
And<00:44:31.299> he's<00:44:31.475> talking<00:44:31.860> to<00:44:31.940> Jerry<00:44:32.197> at<00:44:32.261> this<00:44:32.421> coffee<00:44:32.758> shop.

00:44:32.999 --> 00:44:33.977
I<00:44:33.079> believe<00:44:33.255> it's<00:44:33.400> in<00:44:33.480> Washington,<00:44:33.881> DC.

00:44:34.090 --> 00:44:34.202
Be.

00:44:34.988 --> 00:44:41.634
And<00:44:35.069> he<00:44:35.101> says<00:44:36.032> a<00:44:36.192> lot<00:44:36.449> of<00:44:36.610> people<00:44:37.573> think<00:44:37.878> the<00:44:38.038> guy<00:44:38.375> on<00:44:38.552> stage<00:44:39.900> is<00:44:40.125> the<00:44:40.687> inauthentic<00:44:41.345> person.

00:44:42.950 --> 00:44:44.876
And<00:44:43.014> he<00:44:43.046> said<00:44:43.271> it's<00:44:43.495> actually<00:44:43.752> the<00:44:43.897> exact<00:44:44.459> opposite.

00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:49.338
The<00:44:46.337> guy<00:44:46.706> on<00:44:46.866> stage<00:44:47.508> is<00:44:47.910> authentically<00:44:48.648> Dave<00:44:48.873> Chappelle.

00:44:49.852 --> 00:44:59.836
The<00:44:49.932> guy<00:44:50.397> off<00:44:50.574> stage<00:44:51.120> is<00:44:51.216> just<00:44:51.441> trying<00:44:51.778> to<00:44:52.083> create<00:44:52.340> space<00:44:52.837> and<00:44:53.046> room<00:44:53.608> and<00:44:54.105> ability<00:44:54.651> for<00:44:54.763> that<00:44:54.908> guy<00:44:55.068> to<00:44:55.213> do<00:44:55.293> what<00:44:55.373> he<00:44:55.454> wants<00:44:55.582> to<00:44:55.710> do<00:44:56.818> and<00:44:56.914> be<00:44:57.139> who<00:44:57.235> he<00:44:57.380> wants<00:44:57.572> to<00:44:57.717> be<00:44:58.423> and<00:44:58.600> be<00:44:58.824> his<00:44:59.065> authentic<00:44:59.579> self.

00:45:00.221 --> 00:45:03.575
It's<00:45:00.429> not<00:45:00.606> possible<00:45:01.071> to<00:45:01.312> always<00:45:01.810> be<00:45:02.275> on,<00:45:02.612> is<00:45:02.773> what<00:45:02.917> I<00:45:03.014> get<00:45:03.238> from<00:45:03.415> that.

00:45:03.640 --> 00:45:05.838
And<00:45:03.736> what<00:45:03.880> I<00:45:03.961> get<00:45:04.121> from<00:45:04.298> what<00:45:04.378> you<00:45:04.539> just<00:45:04.699> said,<00:45:04.876> you're<00:45:04.956> not<00:45:05.325> always<00:45:05.582> always<00:45:05.806> on.

00:45:07.202 --> 00:45:07.987
It's<00:45:07.362> not<00:45:07.570> possible.

00:45:08.068 --> 00:45:13.296
And<00:45:08.164> sometimes<00:45:08.533> you<00:45:08.709> do<00:45:08.869> need<00:45:09.110> to<00:45:09.174> just<00:45:09.687> like<00:45:09.896> kind<00:45:10.056> of<00:45:10.152> decompress<00:45:11.580> and<00:45:12.301> have<00:45:12.558> time<00:45:12.863> with<00:45:12.959> yourself.

00:45:13.344 --> 00:45:22.870
And<00:45:13.440> there<00:45:13.825> are,<00:45:14.242> there<00:45:14.546> are—<00:45:14.787> you,<00:45:14.963> I<00:45:14.979> know<00:45:15.108> you<00:45:15.140> said<00:45:15.348> like,<00:45:15.509> there's<00:45:15.765> not<00:45:15.926> like<00:45:16.086> different<00:45:16.407> versions,<00:45:16.808> but<00:45:16.888> there's<00:45:17.048> different<00:45:17.369> versions<00:45:17.770> of<00:45:17.866> how<00:45:18.091> we<00:45:18.251> present<00:45:18.556> ourselves<00:45:19.518> both<00:45:19.775> to<00:45:19.935> others<00:45:20.560> and<00:45:21.138> ourselves,<00:45:21.619> which<00:45:21.779> is<00:45:21.859> the<00:45:21.940> most<00:45:22.100> important<00:45:22.421> part,<00:45:22.741> right?

00:45:23.688 --> 00:45:31.337
And<00:45:23.848> sometimes<00:45:24.249> you're<00:45:24.329> just<00:45:24.425> like,<00:45:24.570> yeah,<00:45:24.746> I<00:45:24.906> just,<00:45:25.692> I'm<00:45:25.788> not<00:45:25.949> gonna<00:45:26.189> be<00:45:26.735> on<00:45:28.338> in<00:45:28.515> the,<00:45:29.381> uh,<00:45:29.493> sense<00:45:29.894> of<00:45:30.022> like<00:45:30.199> what<00:45:30.359> that<00:45:30.519> normally<00:45:30.840> means<00:45:31.081> to<00:45:31.225> me.

00:45:31.876 --> 00:45:33.646
I'm<00:45:31.974> just<00:45:32.121> going<00:45:32.203> to<00:45:32.302> chill,<00:45:32.711> decompress,<00:45:33.285> and<00:45:33.449> think.

00:45:37.086 --> 00:45:50.258
When<00:45:37.474> I<00:45:37.797> think<00:45:37.991> about<00:45:39.170> my<00:45:39.429> growth,<00:45:40.236> just<00:45:40.398> in<00:45:40.543> general,<00:45:41.351> of<00:45:41.706> not<00:45:41.933> just<00:45:42.175> as<00:45:42.320> a<00:45:42.336> leader,<00:45:42.740> because<00:45:42.966> that's<00:45:43.160> just<00:45:43.370> a<00:45:43.467> portion,<00:45:44.270> or<00:45:44.367> as<00:45:44.480> a<00:45:44.545> CEO<00:45:45.111> of<00:45:45.338> who<00:45:45.500> I<00:45:45.678> am,<00:45:46.810> that<00:45:47.053> the<00:45:47.199> growth<00:45:47.539> of<00:45:47.765> me<00:45:48.575> isn't<00:45:48.850> a<00:45:48.979> result<00:45:49.465> of<00:45:49.578> my<00:45:49.740> successes.

00:45:50.847 --> 00:46:11.270
It's<00:45:51.204> a<00:45:51.269> result<00:45:52.390> of<00:45:52.893> being<00:45:53.218> in<00:45:53.300> the<00:45:53.462> depths<00:45:53.884> of<00:45:53.965> sorrow<00:45:54.908> on<00:45:54.989> the<00:45:55.086> personal<00:45:55.476> or<00:45:55.655> professional<00:45:56.223> life,<00:45:57.100> of<00:45:57.669> my<00:45:58.481> absolute<00:45:59.389> struggles,<00:46:01.139> because<00:46:01.604> there's<00:46:01.781> a<00:46:01.861> cause<00:46:02.182> and<00:46:02.279> effect<00:46:02.825> relationship,<00:46:04.494> uh,<00:46:04.992> if<00:46:05.313> you're<00:46:05.474> introspective<00:46:06.196> enough,<00:46:06.678> between<00:46:08.187> a<00:46:08.203> struggle<00:46:09.552> and<00:46:09.729> the<00:46:09.825> effect<00:46:10.226> it<00:46:10.291> can<00:46:10.515> have<00:46:10.708> on<00:46:10.852> your<00:46:10.997> life.

00:46:11.334 --> 00:46:15.300
And<00:46:11.414> the<00:46:11.495> effect,<00:46:11.880> at<00:46:11.960> least<00:46:12.201> for<00:46:12.314> me,<00:46:13.164> is<00:46:14.048> it<00:46:14.160> forces<00:46:14.626> introspection.

00:46:15.348 --> 00:46:22.509
It<00:46:15.444> forces<00:46:16.071> you<00:46:16.215> to<00:46:16.376> ask<00:46:16.632> questions<00:46:17.660> of<00:46:17.756> yourself<00:46:18.463> of,<00:46:19.346> am<00:46:19.988> I<00:46:20.727> becoming<00:46:21.369> who<00:46:21.674> I<00:46:21.834> want<00:46:22.011> to<00:46:22.091> become?

00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:24.949
Am<00:46:23.296> I<00:46:23.617> achieving<00:46:24.259> my<00:46:24.500> potential?

00:46:25.531 --> 00:46:27.376
You<00:46:25.564> know,<00:46:25.806> to<00:46:25.936> the<00:46:26.114> very<00:46:26.421> best<00:46:26.680> of<00:46:26.713> my<00:46:26.939> ability?

00:46:27.975 --> 00:46:32.344
Am<00:46:28.202> I<00:46:28.784> helping<00:46:29.334> people<00:46:29.998> feel<00:46:30.791> good<00:46:31.535> when<00:46:31.697> they're<00:46:31.940> with<00:46:32.102> me?

00:46:34.267 --> 00:46:47.528
And<00:46:34.848> that's<00:46:35.414> where<00:46:37.498> I've<00:46:37.756> tried<00:46:38.160> to<00:46:38.305> share<00:46:39.452> internally<00:46:40.018> here<00:46:40.260> at<00:46:40.390> Divvy<00:46:41.949> very<00:46:42.254> freely<00:46:42.689> and<00:46:42.914> openly<00:46:43.557> about<00:46:43.959> my<00:46:44.200> own<00:46:44.441> personal<00:46:44.988> failures<00:46:46.033> within<00:46:46.354> reason,<00:46:47.319> right?

00:46:47.576 --> 00:46:55.535
Sometimes<00:46:47.913> some<00:46:48.203> details<00:46:48.637> are<00:46:48.750> best<00:46:49.580> unsaid<00:46:51.389> to<00:46:51.796> help<00:46:53.463> inspire<00:46:54.191> and<00:46:54.353> create<00:46:54.823> growth<00:46:55.098> in<00:46:55.244> others.

00:46:55.988 --> 00:47:01.040
I<00:46:56.037> would<00:46:56.134> hate<00:46:56.377> for<00:46:56.539> people<00:46:56.863> to<00:46:57.008> have<00:46:57.186> to<00:46:57.332> experience,<00:46:58.465> you<00:46:58.579> know,<00:46:58.741> failures<00:46:59.388> if<00:46:59.534> they<00:46:59.680> can<00:46:59.793> somehow<00:47:00.117> learn<00:47:00.505> from<00:47:00.667> mine.

00:47:01.461 --> 00:47:19.499
And<00:47:01.574> so<00:47:01.703> that's<00:47:01.946> a<00:47:02.027> really<00:47:02.302> key<00:47:02.529> part<00:47:02.836> for<00:47:02.932> me<00:47:03.254> of<00:47:03.881> being<00:47:04.363> authentic<00:47:06.211> is<00:47:07.256> sharing<00:47:07.835> your—<00:47:10.310> all<00:47:10.422> of<00:47:10.712> you,<00:47:11.290> warts<00:47:11.612> and<00:47:11.773> all,<00:47:13.535> and<00:47:13.632> then<00:47:14.020> asking<00:47:14.440> people<00:47:14.909> to<00:47:15.087> forgive<00:47:15.571> those<00:47:15.959> warts<00:47:17.592> and<00:47:17.672> to<00:47:17.834> grow<00:47:18.157> together<00:47:18.723> and<00:47:18.868> to<00:47:19.030> improve<00:47:19.305> together.

00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:21.251
Together.

00:47:21.299 --> 00:47:22.967
I<00:47:21.315> don't<00:47:21.460> have<00:47:21.620> a<00:47:21.636> lot<00:47:21.780> of<00:47:21.861> time<00:47:22.117> with<00:47:22.277> you<00:47:22.502> and<00:47:22.598> all<00:47:22.759> of<00:47:22.903> that.

00:47:23.384 --> 00:47:24.346
Yeah,<00:47:23.544> yeah,<00:47:23.881> yeah,<00:47:24.186> yeah.

00:47:24.506 --> 00:47:25.998
I,<00:47:24.667> I<00:47:24.763> don't<00:47:24.939> have<00:47:25.084> a<00:47:25.164> ton<00:47:25.420> of<00:47:25.469> time<00:47:25.709> with<00:47:25.869> you.

00:47:26.286 --> 00:47:33.567
We<00:47:26.447> need<00:47:26.543> to<00:47:26.607> do<00:47:26.751> this<00:47:26.928> again<00:47:27.553> cuz<00:47:27.730> you,<00:47:27.906> like<00:47:28.195> I<00:47:28.211> said,<00:47:28.451> we,<00:47:28.531> you<00:47:28.628> and<00:47:28.756> I<00:47:28.852> can<00:47:28.996> always,<00:47:29.878> uh,<00:47:30.039> go<00:47:30.215> deep<00:47:30.440> on<00:47:30.536> this<00:47:30.632> type<00:47:30.792> of<00:47:30.857> stuff,<00:47:31.017> but<00:47:31.161> I<00:47:31.241> want<00:47:31.322> to<00:47:31.402> finish<00:47:31.723> out<00:47:31.883> the<00:47:32.059> Divvy<00:47:32.300> story<00:47:32.685> for<00:47:32.797> those<00:47:33.005> who<00:47:33.037> don't<00:47:33.246> know<00:47:33.422> it.

00:47:34.208 --> 00:47:35.379
Um,<00:47:34.465> the<00:47:34.545> pandemic<00:47:35.106> hits.

00:47:35.427 --> 00:47:36.405
Yeah.

00:47:36.549 --> 00:47:38.890
The<00:47:36.629> majority<00:47:36.982> of<00:47:37.014> your<00:47:37.175> customers<00:47:37.832> are<00:47:37.912> small<00:47:38.233> business<00:47:38.618> owners.

00:47:39.019 --> 00:48:01.256
The<00:47:39.099> majority<00:47:39.532> of<00:47:39.596> the<00:47:39.676> people,<00:47:40.558> at<00:47:40.638> least<00:47:40.879> businesses<00:47:41.344> that<00:47:41.504> were<00:47:41.600> affected<00:47:42.001> by<00:47:42.146> the<00:47:42.242> pandemic<00:47:42.723> were<00:47:42.803> small<00:47:43.188> businesses,<00:47:45.353> and<00:47:45.690> that<00:47:45.914> must<00:47:46.171> have<00:47:46.315> been<00:47:47.226> super<00:47:47.726> intense<00:47:48.597> as<00:47:49.000> like<00:47:49.177> that<00:47:49.403> kind<00:47:49.516> of<00:47:49.581> being<00:47:49.822> like<00:47:49.984> your<00:47:50.129> core<00:47:50.387> base<00:47:51.258> of<00:47:51.419> customers,<00:47:52.338> seeing<00:47:52.709> what<00:47:52.886> they're<00:47:53.112> going<00:47:53.451> through,<00:47:53.692> seeing<00:47:54.015> so<00:47:54.176> many<00:47:54.418> of<00:47:54.499> them<00:47:54.660> being<00:47:55.224> shut<00:47:55.531> down<00:47:56.337> either<00:47:56.998> by<00:47:57.240> the<00:47:57.321> government<00:47:57.950> or<00:47:58.208> for<00:47:58.450> all<00:47:58.546> sorts<00:47:58.853> of<00:47:58.933> reasons<00:47:59.321> because<00:47:59.595> nobody<00:47:59.901> wants<00:48:00.127> to<00:48:00.175> leave<00:48:00.385> their<00:48:00.530> house,<00:48:00.933> right?

00:48:01.836 --> 00:48:05.199
But<00:48:02.062> for<00:48:02.224> some,<00:48:02.465> in<00:48:02.562> some<00:48:02.723> cases,<00:48:03.111> forcibly<00:48:03.530> shut<00:48:03.740> down.

00:48:06.837 --> 00:48:14.783
What,<00:48:08.151> what<00:48:08.459> gets<00:48:08.718> you<00:48:09.108> out<00:48:09.221> of<00:48:09.286> that<00:48:09.594> to<00:48:09.837> this<00:48:10.016> incredible<00:48:10.811> win<00:48:11.151> and<00:48:11.232> this<00:48:11.394> incredible<00:48:12.124> partnership<00:48:12.759> and<00:48:12.859> now<00:48:13.672> merger<00:48:14.186> with<00:48:14.435> Build.com?

00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:19.908
Because<00:48:15.897> that<00:48:16.059> must<00:48:16.301> not<00:48:16.398> have<00:48:16.544> been<00:48:16.689> obvious<00:48:17.126> at<00:48:17.191> the<00:48:17.272> beginning<00:48:17.563> of<00:48:17.595> the<00:48:17.676> pandemic<00:48:18.242> that<00:48:18.404> you<00:48:18.485> would<00:48:18.565> have<00:48:18.808> a<00:48:18.970> win<00:48:19.212> that<00:48:19.358> significant.

00:48:22.512 --> 00:48:33.693
No,<00:48:22.625> it<00:48:22.770> wasn't<00:48:23.013> obvious,<00:48:23.482> but<00:48:23.595> it<00:48:23.644> was<00:48:23.757> about<00:48:23.999> 2<00:48:24.210> months<00:48:24.468> into<00:48:24.711> the<00:48:24.760> pandemic<00:48:25.438> where<00:48:26.149> I<00:48:26.165> understood<00:48:27.053> the<00:48:27.134> strategy<00:48:28.184> to<00:48:28.572> make<00:48:28.750> sure<00:48:29.557> that<00:48:29.800> we<00:48:29.945> had<00:48:30.058> a<00:48:30.123> strong<00:48:30.769> and<00:48:31.011> enduring<00:48:31.560> business<00:48:32.707> with<00:48:32.869> incredible<00:48:33.337> clarity.

00:48:34.457 --> 00:48:39.504
So,<00:48:34.537> yeah,<00:48:34.795> real<00:48:34.957> quick,<00:48:35.924> March<00:48:36.327> of<00:48:36.488> 2020,<00:48:37.601> all<00:48:37.682> of<00:48:37.714> a<00:48:37.778> sudden,<00:48:38.246> all<00:48:38.407> hell<00:48:38.585> is<00:48:38.746> breaking<00:48:39.149> loose.

00:48:40.294 --> 00:48:42.035
Mandates<00:48:40.922> and<00:48:41.003> shutdowns<00:48:41.584> are<00:48:41.713> happening.

00:48:42.579 --> 00:48:45.709
Small<00:48:42.964> business<00:48:43.462> is<00:48:43.751> absolutely<00:48:44.409> getting<00:48:44.666> obliterated,<00:48:45.516> right?

00:48:45.773 --> 00:48:47.106
There's<00:48:45.950> no<00:48:46.094> travel,<00:48:46.560> there's<00:48:46.736> nothing.

00:48:47.539 --> 00:48:55.661
And<00:48:47.619> then<00:48:47.764> what<00:48:47.860> Clint<00:48:48.101> just<00:48:48.261> said<00:48:48.406> about<00:48:48.582> my<00:48:48.823> business<00:48:49.369> at<00:48:49.465> Divvy,<00:48:50.107> we<00:48:50.268> are<00:48:50.364> extending<00:48:51.215> lines<00:48:51.568> of<00:48:51.712> credit<00:48:52.033> to<00:48:52.114> businesses<00:48:52.836> along<00:48:53.077> with<00:48:53.173> software<00:48:53.719> that<00:48:53.863> helps<00:48:54.200> them<00:48:54.361> spend<00:48:54.746> their<00:48:54.826> money<00:48:55.083> smarter,<00:48:55.485> right?

00:48:55.725 --> 00:48:58.294
Spend<00:48:56.046> management<00:48:56.849> and<00:48:56.993> expense<00:48:57.411> management<00:48:57.812> software.

00:48:58.695 --> 00:49:05.918
But<00:48:58.855> behind<00:48:59.176> the<00:48:59.257> scenes,<00:48:59.578> that<00:48:59.738> also<00:48:59.915> means<00:49:00.220> that<00:49:00.364> we<00:49:00.445> have<00:49:00.557> a<00:49:00.685> pretty<00:49:00.862> significant<00:49:01.488> credit<00:49:01.825> portfolio,<00:49:02.852> which<00:49:03.414> is<00:49:03.896> a<00:49:04.795> pretty<00:49:04.971> significant<00:49:05.581> risk.

00:49:06.255 --> 00:49:15.520
So<00:49:06.544> all<00:49:06.705> we<00:49:06.785> were<00:49:06.881> able<00:49:07.186> to<00:49:07.283> do<00:49:07.844> was<00:49:08.069> look<00:49:08.246> back<00:49:08.502> at<00:49:08.647> 2008<00:49:09.273> and<00:49:09.369> 2009<00:49:10.172> time<00:49:10.493> at<00:49:10.638> this,<00:49:10.911> you<00:49:11.055> know,<00:49:11.280> this<00:49:11.537> cohort<00:49:12.019> data<00:49:12.742> and<00:49:12.822> try<00:49:12.998> to<00:49:13.063> extrapolate<00:49:13.785> of<00:49:13.930> how<00:49:14.107> is<00:49:14.267> this<00:49:14.428> going<00:49:14.572> to<00:49:14.669> perform<00:49:15.070> and<00:49:15.150> behave.

00:49:16.178 --> 00:49:19.503
And<00:49:16.676> not<00:49:16.901> only<00:49:17.062> was<00:49:17.174> it<00:49:17.222> intense,<00:49:17.720> it<00:49:17.768> was<00:49:17.881> pretty<00:49:18.105> terrifying<00:49:18.764> in<00:49:18.925> March<00:49:19.165> and<00:49:19.246> April.

00:49:19.551 --> 00:49:24.401
We<00:49:19.647> had<00:49:19.888> no<00:49:20.193> idea<00:49:21.414> how<00:49:22.442> our<00:49:23.164> customers<00:49:23.743> were<00:49:23.887> going<00:49:23.967> to<00:49:24.064> behave.

00:49:24.529 --> 00:49:35.386
We<00:49:24.610> had<00:49:24.706> taken<00:49:25.092> great<00:49:25.429> care<00:49:26.296> prior<00:49:26.553> to<00:49:26.633> March<00:49:26.890> of<00:49:27.019> 2020<00:49:28.657> to<00:49:29.524> bring<00:49:29.829> in<00:49:29.990> high-quality<00:49:30.648> businesses<00:49:31.210> that<00:49:31.307> are<00:49:31.371> creditworthy,<00:49:32.094> that<00:49:32.736> had,<00:49:33.443> you<00:49:33.475> know,<00:49:33.924> very<00:49:34.438> sustainable<00:49:34.984> revenue.

00:49:35.466 --> 00:49:36.639
They<00:49:35.563> were<00:49:35.707> profitable<00:49:36.189> businesses.

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And<00:49:36.880> So<00:49:37.393> we<00:49:37.697> had<00:49:39.060> put<00:49:39.237> in<00:49:39.381> place<00:49:40.119> underwriting<00:49:40.680> measures<00:49:41.722> that<00:49:41.883> should<00:49:42.107> have<00:49:42.268> withstood<00:49:42.861> some<00:49:43.310> elements<00:49:43.791> of<00:49:44.128> a,<00:49:44.288> a<00:49:44.304> normal<00:49:44.769> recession,<00:49:45.571> but<00:49:45.715> this<00:49:45.876> was<00:49:46.116> abnormal.

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This<00:49:46.854> was<00:49:47.014> not<00:49:47.239> normal.

00:49:47.976 --> 00:49:49.628
And<00:49:48.057> so<00:49:48.137> that's<00:49:48.377> where<00:49:48.522> the<00:49:48.602> fear<00:49:48.939> really<00:49:49.179> crept<00:49:49.500> in.

00:49:50.302 --> 00:49:52.643
Come<00:49:50.606> April,<00:49:51.168> our<00:49:51.328> customers<00:49:51.841> are<00:49:51.985> doing<00:49:52.290> all<00:49:52.386> right.

00:49:52.787 --> 00:49:57.165
But<00:49:53.028> more<00:49:53.172> strategically,<00:49:53.814> what<00:49:53.974> we<00:49:54.070> did<00:49:54.295> right<00:49:54.471> then<00:49:54.712> is<00:49:54.936> we<00:49:55.032> inserted<00:49:55.417> ourselves<00:49:55.914> into<00:49:56.139> the<00:49:56.235> PPP<00:49:56.716> process.

00:49:57.502 --> 00:49:59.939
We<00:49:57.662> worked<00:49:57.919> with<00:49:58.143> one<00:49:58.223> of<00:49:58.256> our<00:49:58.400> bank<00:49:58.640> partners,<00:49:59.105> Cross<00:49:59.362> River<00:49:59.603> Bank.

00:50:00.565 --> 00:50:03.499
We<00:50:00.725> built<00:50:01.447> this<00:50:01.607> incredible<00:50:02.473> onboarding<00:50:02.970> software.

00:50:03.916 --> 00:50:19.618
That<00:50:04.012> kind<00:50:04.172> of<00:50:04.204> circumvented<00:50:04.877> a<00:50:04.893> lot<00:50:05.150> of<00:50:05.294> kind<00:50:05.438> of<00:50:05.470> what<00:50:05.630> the<00:50:05.759> government<00:50:06.175> was<00:50:06.335> doing<00:50:06.640> of<00:50:06.720> some<00:50:06.896> of<00:50:06.960> their<00:50:07.120> forms,<00:50:07.841> meaning<00:50:08.002> that<00:50:08.162> we<00:50:08.258> were<00:50:08.322> able<00:50:08.482> to<00:50:08.578> do<00:50:08.659> it<00:50:08.883> faster<00:50:09.620> than<00:50:09.764> what<00:50:09.860> the<00:50:09.940> government<00:50:10.405> could<00:50:11.526> to<00:50:11.687> ensure<00:50:12.103> that<00:50:12.264> not<00:50:12.488> only<00:50:12.728> our<00:50:12.888> customers,<00:50:13.465> but<00:50:13.689> really<00:50:13.946> anyone<00:50:14.250> that<00:50:14.410> would<00:50:14.507> apply<00:50:14.891> through<00:50:15.131> us<00:50:15.708> could<00:50:16.173> get<00:50:16.333> access<00:50:16.830> to<00:50:17.054> PPP<00:50:18.176> as<00:50:18.592> fast<00:50:18.913> as<00:50:19.073> possible.

00:50:20.018 --> 00:50:25.354
And<00:50:20.275> that<00:50:20.595> was<00:50:20.835> an<00:50:21.140> absolute<00:50:22.438> lifeline<00:50:22.918> to<00:50:23.062> our<00:50:23.239> customers<00:50:24.040> in<00:50:24.136> a<00:50:24.200> bought<00:50:24.504> time,<00:50:25.161> right?

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Which<00:50:25.946> is<00:50:26.043> really<00:50:26.347> what<00:50:26.683> the<00:50:26.844> intent<00:50:27.388> of<00:50:27.565> PPP<00:50:28.109> was,<00:50:28.430> not<00:50:28.606> just<00:50:28.766> for<00:50:28.862> our<00:50:28.991> customer<00:50:29.327> base,<00:50:29.648> but<00:50:29.808> for<00:50:29.952> anyone.

00:50:30.529 --> 00:50:40.765
Let's<00:50:30.689> just<00:50:30.849> buy<00:50:31.074> time<00:50:31.426> until<00:50:31.730> we<00:50:31.875> understand<00:50:32.636> kind<00:50:33.151> of<00:50:33.216> what<00:50:33.377> the<00:50:33.473> patterns<00:50:34.101> and<00:50:34.970> how<00:50:35.147> businesses<00:50:35.646> are<00:50:35.791> gonna<00:50:37.642> react<00:50:38.125> and<00:50:38.206> how<00:50:38.367> consumers<00:50:39.188> are<00:50:39.558> gonna<00:50:39.719> react<00:50:40.121> through<00:50:40.218> the<00:50:40.298> pandemic.

00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:58.758
But<00:50:41.533> then<00:50:42.168> here's<00:50:42.412> what<00:50:42.509> we<00:50:42.672> understood,<00:50:43.469> and<00:50:43.551> this<00:50:43.713> goes<00:50:43.892> back<00:50:44.299> to<00:50:44.608> the<00:50:44.689> conversation<00:50:45.356> of<00:50:45.438> being<00:50:45.584> a<00:50:45.666> venture-backed<00:50:46.170> business<00:50:46.642> or<00:50:46.723> a<00:50:46.804> bootstrap<00:50:47.227> business,<00:50:49.453> that<00:50:50.177> as<00:50:50.258> a<00:50:50.338> venture-backed<00:50:50.982> business,<00:50:51.723> especially<00:50:52.190> in<00:50:52.270> the<00:50:52.431> early<00:50:52.608> stages,<00:50:53.236> you<00:50:53.542> are<00:50:53.799> reliant<00:50:55.071> on<00:50:55.715> just<00:50:55.908> more<00:50:56.279> venture<00:50:56.536> capital<00:50:57.100> to<00:50:57.486> accelerate<00:50:58.050> growth<00:50:58.388> and<00:50:58.468> to<00:50:58.500> keep<00:50:58.629> going.

00:50:59.020 --> 00:50:59.180
Going.

00:50:59.757 --> 00:51:05.769
And<00:51:00.174> I<00:51:00.414> knew<00:51:00.591> in<00:51:00.719> the<00:51:00.815> back<00:51:01.056> of<00:51:01.120> my<00:51:01.216> mind<00:51:01.697> I<00:51:01.938> never<00:51:02.499> wanted<00:51:02.819> to<00:51:02.900> be<00:51:03.060> dependent<00:51:03.861> again<00:51:04.823> on<00:51:05.048> venture<00:51:05.385> capital.

00:51:06.170 --> 00:51:14.251
I<00:51:06.266> didn't<00:51:06.507> want,<00:51:06.715> like,<00:51:06.988> I<00:51:07.228> didn't<00:51:07.453> want<00:51:07.629> that<00:51:07.886> to<00:51:08.014> be<00:51:08.110> our<00:51:08.335> lifeline,<00:51:09.297> that<00:51:09.617> I<00:51:09.633> wanted<00:51:10.034> to<00:51:10.114> be<00:51:10.275> able<00:51:10.419> to<00:51:10.595> look<00:51:10.852> inside<00:51:11.317> at<00:51:11.397> our<00:51:11.541> business<00:51:11.974> and<00:51:12.038> say,<00:51:12.359> nope,<00:51:12.840> we<00:51:12.984> have<00:51:13.097> a<00:51:13.161> strong,<00:51:13.561> mature<00:51:13.882> business.

00:51:14.684 --> 00:51:17.778
We<00:51:14.828> can<00:51:14.940> survive<00:51:15.566> regardless<00:51:16.207> of<00:51:16.351> what's<00:51:16.544> going<00:51:16.832> on<00:51:16.993> in<00:51:17.089> the<00:51:17.249> outside.

00:51:18.355 --> 00:51:21.786
And<00:51:18.708> the<00:51:18.933> only<00:51:19.173> way<00:51:19.398> to<00:51:19.558> do<00:51:19.750> that<00:51:20.376> was<00:51:20.616> to<00:51:20.776> assess<00:51:21.113> our<00:51:21.257> product.

00:51:21.995 --> 00:51:35.570
Our<00:51:22.139> product<00:51:22.556> at<00:51:22.620> that<00:51:22.861> point,<00:51:23.261> from<00:51:23.422> a<00:51:23.502> go-to-market<00:51:24.063> perspective,<00:51:25.009> was<00:51:25.330> very<00:51:25.731> direct<00:51:26.067> sales<00:51:26.548> heavy,<00:51:27.029> which<00:51:27.254> means<00:51:27.574> that<00:51:27.751> we<00:51:29.099> pretty<00:51:29.436> bloated,<00:51:30.544> uh,<00:51:31.106> on<00:51:31.828> a<00:51:32.182> sales<00:51:32.567> and<00:51:32.631> marketing<00:51:33.049> headcount<00:51:33.530> perspective,<00:51:34.237> customer<00:51:34.574> success<00:51:35.056> perspective.

00:51:35.618 --> 00:51:39.198
We<00:51:35.698> just<00:51:35.859> had<00:51:36.404> a<00:51:36.501> lot<00:51:36.726> of<00:51:36.902> people,<00:51:37.464> wonderful<00:51:37.866> people,<00:51:38.588> but<00:51:38.733> a<00:51:38.749> lot<00:51:38.989> of<00:51:39.070> them.

00:51:39.937 --> 00:51:53.825
And<00:51:40.338> we<00:51:40.435> knew<00:51:40.836> that<00:51:41.237> in<00:51:41.478> order<00:51:41.799> to<00:51:42.538> survive<00:51:43.967> and<00:51:44.127> to<00:51:44.288> build<00:51:44.609> an<00:51:44.705> enduring<00:51:45.171> business,<00:51:46.118> we<00:51:46.199> would<00:51:46.359> have<00:51:46.536> to<00:51:46.632> figure<00:51:47.082> out<00:51:47.323> how<00:51:47.419> to<00:51:47.724> automate,<00:51:48.543> not<00:51:48.848> all,<00:51:49.265> but<00:51:49.410> the<00:51:49.490> majority<00:51:50.132> of<00:51:50.293> what<00:51:50.405> was<00:51:50.550> going<00:51:50.855> on<00:51:51.096> in<00:51:51.176> our<00:51:51.337> go-to-market,<00:51:52.541> um,<00:51:53.263> uh,<00:51:53.360> process.

00:51:54.965 --> 00:52:07.376
That<00:51:55.431> we<00:51:55.527> needed<00:51:55.864> a<00:51:55.928> process<00:51:56.410> where<00:51:56.555> customers<00:51:57.213> could<00:51:57.839> come<00:51:58.096> to<00:51:58.192> our<00:51:58.401> website<00:51:58.899> and<00:51:59.059> just<00:51:59.220> be<00:51:59.541> full<00:51:59.717> self-serve<00:52:00.906> from<00:52:01.066> the<00:52:01.211> credit<00:52:01.548> underwriting<00:52:02.190> to<00:52:02.415> onboarding<00:52:03.073> to<00:52:03.298> using<00:52:03.571> the<00:52:03.699> product,<00:52:04.197> and<00:52:04.277> that<00:52:04.518> they<00:52:04.582> would<00:52:04.743> be<00:52:04.775> successfully<00:52:05.497> inserted<00:52:05.883> to<00:52:06.027> the<00:52:06.107> product<00:52:06.525> and<00:52:06.669> off<00:52:06.830> to<00:52:06.910> the<00:52:06.990> races.

00:52:08.130 --> 00:52:14.312
And<00:52:08.275> it<00:52:08.532> was<00:52:08.773> such<00:52:09.110> a<00:52:09.174> difficult<00:52:09.656> decision<00:52:10.539> because<00:52:11.406> that<00:52:11.743> ultimately<00:52:12.160> meant<00:52:12.786> we<00:52:12.867> need<00:52:13.027> to<00:52:13.172> let<00:52:13.348> go<00:52:13.509> of<00:52:13.669> a<00:52:13.750> lot<00:52:13.926> of<00:52:13.990> people.

00:52:15.018 --> 00:52:16.078
It's<00:52:15.291> a<00:52:15.419> forcing<00:52:15.756> function.

00:52:16.142 --> 00:52:30.405
We<00:52:16.174> need<00:52:16.463> to<00:52:16.559> let<00:52:16.736> go,<00:52:17.506> shed<00:52:18.470> a<00:52:18.502> significant<00:52:19.208> capital<00:52:19.690> expense<00:52:20.877> and<00:52:20.990> then<00:52:21.214> move<00:52:21.952> our<00:52:22.096> product<00:52:22.481> and<00:52:22.561> engineering<00:52:23.059> resources<00:52:23.700> to<00:52:23.941> building<00:52:24.326> out<00:52:25.144> now<00:52:25.464> this<00:52:25.689> massive<00:52:26.106> gap<00:52:26.587> that<00:52:26.748> we've<00:52:26.908> created<00:52:27.245> in<00:52:27.373> our<00:52:27.550> business,<00:52:28.496> uh,<00:52:28.817> which<00:52:29.057> needs<00:52:29.314> to<00:52:29.394> become<00:52:29.715> tech-enabled.

00:52:31.303 --> 00:52:46.139
And<00:52:31.559> so<00:52:33.163> we<00:52:33.243> just<00:52:33.404> had<00:52:33.580> to<00:52:33.709> bite<00:52:33.981> the<00:52:34.029> bitter<00:52:34.206> pill,<00:52:35.152> and<00:52:35.345> it<00:52:35.633> was<00:52:37.013> so<00:52:37.478> difficult,<00:52:37.911> so<00:52:38.200> many<00:52:38.376> tears<00:52:38.697> shed,<00:52:39.018> because<00:52:39.322> you're<00:52:39.483> saying<00:52:39.659> bye<00:52:39.900> to<00:52:40.525> friends<00:52:41.006> that<00:52:41.263> have<00:52:41.664> given<00:52:41.905> so<00:52:42.145> much<00:52:42.466> of<00:52:42.626> their<00:52:43.364> time<00:52:43.685> and<00:52:43.909> energy<00:52:44.391> and<00:52:44.535> their<00:52:44.711> creativity<00:52:45.353> to<00:52:45.513> Divi<00:52:45.818> as<00:52:45.995> well.

00:52:46.861 --> 00:52:48.769
Um,<00:52:47.278> but<00:52:47.502> we<00:52:47.598> knew<00:52:47.839> that<00:52:47.983> that<00:52:48.144> was<00:52:48.304> the<00:52:48.400> right<00:52:48.577> step.

00:52:49.362 --> 00:53:11.644
And<00:52:49.443> then<00:52:49.667> it<00:52:49.747> was<00:52:49.907> only<00:52:50.100> about<00:52:50.469> 2<00:52:50.629> months<00:52:50.949> later<00:52:51.527> after<00:52:51.783> doing<00:52:52.088> that,<00:52:52.328> it<00:52:52.392> was<00:52:52.568> in<00:52:52.729> July,<00:52:53.530> maybe<00:52:53.835> August<00:52:54.957> of,<00:52:55.534> so<00:52:55.758> of<00:52:55.839> 2020<00:52:56.961> where<00:52:57.201> it<00:52:57.361> was<00:52:57.618> working<00:52:58.323> really<00:52:58.740> well,<00:52:59.141> probably<00:52:59.526> August<00:52:59.942> if<00:53:00.039> I'm<00:53:00.183> gonna<00:53:00.423> be<00:53:00.568> honest,<00:53:01.946> where<00:53:02.571> that<00:53:02.764> self-serve<00:53:03.790> internal<00:53:04.415> product<00:53:04.912> that<00:53:05.072> we<00:53:05.232> built<00:53:06.034> just<00:53:06.258> took<00:53:06.499> off<00:53:06.659> like<00:53:06.899> lightning<00:53:07.621> where<00:53:07.877> we,<00:53:08.198> you<00:53:08.278> know,<00:53:08.599> previously<00:53:09.160> were<00:53:09.336> landing<00:53:10.266> a<00:53:10.346> couple<00:53:10.586> hundred<00:53:10.923> customers<00:53:11.404> a<00:53:11.420> month.

00:53:11.869 --> 00:53:16.976
Immediately<00:53:12.366> we're<00:53:12.590> doubling<00:53:12.991> that,<00:53:13.167> we<00:53:13.231> are<00:53:13.327> tripling<00:53:13.808> that<00:53:14.434> just<00:53:14.610> because<00:53:15.091> of<00:53:15.235> how<00:53:15.460> how<00:53:16.040> well<00:53:16.299> that<00:53:16.444> had<00:53:16.605> worked<00:53:16.863> out.

00:53:17.670 --> 00:53:19.090
Now,<00:53:17.831> that<00:53:17.928> was<00:53:18.154> the<00:53:18.299> design<00:53:18.703> in<00:53:18.800> your<00:53:18.945> head.

00:53:19.590 --> 00:53:21.446
Rarely<00:53:20.010> does<00:53:20.236> it<00:53:20.332> ever<00:53:20.558> work<00:53:20.800> out<00:53:20.978> that<00:53:21.204> way.

00:53:21.865 --> 00:53:26.030
And<00:53:22.253> we<00:53:22.333> were<00:53:22.511> just<00:53:22.737> incredibly<00:53:23.221> blessed<00:53:23.479> and<00:53:23.560> fortunate<00:53:24.028> that<00:53:24.140> it<00:53:24.447> literally<00:53:24.834> worked<00:53:25.012> out<00:53:25.400> as<00:53:25.578> designed.

00:53:27.113 --> 00:53:36.970
Well,<00:53:27.275> I<00:53:27.356> could<00:53:28.568> tell<00:53:28.891> the<00:53:29.053> pain<00:53:29.602> in<00:53:29.683> your<00:53:29.780> voice<00:53:30.103> and<00:53:30.249> your<00:53:30.346> expression<00:53:30.815> as<00:53:30.895> you<00:53:30.992> talked<00:53:31.251> about<00:53:32.286> having<00:53:32.690> to<00:53:32.916> let<00:53:33.191> some<00:53:33.498> people<00:53:33.821> go<00:53:34.080> during<00:53:34.775> all<00:53:34.840> of<00:53:34.872> that<00:53:35.743> and<00:53:35.840> what<00:53:36.066> that<00:53:36.244> process<00:53:36.647> is<00:53:36.793> like.

00:53:37.035 --> 00:53:43.443
And<00:53:37.293> I<00:53:37.390> know<00:53:37.680> you<00:53:37.858> took<00:53:38.165> great<00:53:38.504> care<00:53:38.746> to<00:53:38.826> make<00:53:39.069> sure<00:53:39.408> that<00:53:39.617> they<00:53:41.393> were<00:53:41.635> put<00:53:41.813> in<00:53:41.877> other<00:53:42.039> companies,<00:53:42.297> but<00:53:42.442> a<00:53:42.458> lot<00:53:42.604> of<00:53:42.636> people<00:53:42.862> want<00:53:43.023> to<00:53:43.185> know<00:53:43.346> this.

00:53:43.524 --> 00:53:45.242
So,<00:53:43.604> how<00:53:43.830> did<00:53:43.992> you<00:53:44.157> help<00:53:44.321> knowing<00:53:44.486> that<00:53:44.535> you<00:53:44.568> were<00:53:44.601> going<00:53:44.765> to<00:53:44.880> have<00:53:44.930> to<00:53:44.963> make<00:53:45.012> that<00:53:45.094> decision?

00:53:45.292 --> 00:53:51.016
How<00:53:45.341> did<00:53:47.360> to<00:53:47.392> help<00:53:48.020> these<00:53:48.278> employees<00:53:49.711> who<00:53:49.872> were<00:53:50.033> like<00:53:50.227> a<00:53:50.291> family<00:53:50.678> to<00:53:50.758> you?

00:53:51.096 --> 00:53:55.751
And<00:53:51.241> it's<00:53:51.483> obviously,<00:53:52.047> you<00:53:52.079> know,<00:53:52.449> anyone<00:53:52.707> watching<00:53:53.029> this<00:53:53.206> or<00:53:53.271> listening<00:53:53.545> to<00:53:53.674> this<00:53:53.835> can<00:53:53.980> tell<00:53:54.720> that<00:53:55.043> it<00:53:55.188> matters<00:53:55.526> to<00:53:55.671> you.

00:53:58.355 --> 00:53:58.677
Yeah.

00:53:59.384 --> 00:54:04.641
Once<00:53:59.641> we<00:53:59.738> were<00:53:59.818> in<00:53:59.947> a<00:54:00.027> position<00:54:00.526> to,<00:54:00.767> we<00:54:01.072> were<00:54:01.169> able<00:54:01.345> to<00:54:01.490> rehire<00:54:02.037> a<00:54:02.117> lot<00:54:02.294> of<00:54:02.439> them,<00:54:03.033> those<00:54:03.258> that<00:54:03.419> wanted<00:54:03.660> to<00:54:03.741> come<00:54:03.901> back,<00:54:04.448> right?

00:54:04.705 --> 00:54:12.167
We<00:54:04.866> didn't<00:54:05.348> hold<00:54:06.878> blame<00:54:07.184> on<00:54:07.346> anyone<00:54:07.765> that<00:54:08.071> felt<00:54:08.248> burned<00:54:08.410> or<00:54:08.490> didn't<00:54:08.893> want<00:54:09.039> to<00:54:09.119> come<00:54:09.296> back<00:54:09.458> because<00:54:10.248> I<00:54:10.586> think<00:54:10.812> I'd<00:54:10.973> probably<00:54:11.231> fall<00:54:11.393> in<00:54:11.538> that<00:54:11.715> category.

00:54:12.521 --> 00:54:18.857
But<00:54:13.489> we<00:54:13.634> worked<00:54:13.970> with<00:54:14.386> 100%<00:54:15.059> of<00:54:15.123> them,<00:54:16.165> worked<00:54:16.405> with<00:54:16.549> 100%<00:54:16.966> of<00:54:17.126> them<00:54:17.383> to<00:54:17.543> make<00:54:17.751> sure<00:54:17.928> that<00:54:18.152> they<00:54:18.312> had<00:54:18.488> jobs.

00:54:18.953 --> 00:54:29.962
I<00:54:18.969> think<00:54:19.145> successfully,<00:54:19.995> we<00:54:20.091> are<00:54:20.235> well<00:54:20.411> over<00:54:20.588> 90%<00:54:21.213> of<00:54:21.373> them<00:54:21.854> landed<00:54:22.174> jobs<00:54:22.735> as<00:54:22.895> a<00:54:22.959> direct<00:54:23.296> result<00:54:24.161> of<00:54:24.337> our<00:54:24.498> People<00:54:24.738> in<00:54:24.882> Places<00:54:25.299> team<00:54:26.421> that<00:54:26.661> just<00:54:26.965> networked<00:54:27.526> the<00:54:27.606> hell<00:54:28.087> out<00:54:28.247> of<00:54:28.680> the<00:54:28.904> Utah<00:54:29.385> ecosystem.

00:54:30.491 --> 00:54:37.317
And<00:54:30.827> in<00:54:31.052> most<00:54:31.308> cases,<00:54:31.773> they<00:54:31.869> landed<00:54:32.254> up,<00:54:32.734> landed<00:54:33.071> in<00:54:33.151> scenarios<00:54:34.353> where<00:54:34.433> they<00:54:34.577> were<00:54:34.657> making<00:54:34.994> more<00:54:35.138> money<00:54:35.715> now<00:54:36.019> than<00:54:36.116> they<00:54:36.260> were<00:54:36.356> at<00:54:36.516> Divya,<00:54:36.837> the<00:54:36.917> startup.

00:54:37.798 --> 00:54:45.711
And<00:54:37.958> so<00:54:38.439> that<00:54:38.679> was<00:54:39.000> an<00:54:39.304> all<00:54:39.465> hands<00:54:39.721> on<00:54:39.881> deck<00:54:40.523> back<00:54:41.246> where,<00:54:42.354> you<00:54:42.386> know,<00:54:42.547> sales<00:54:43.013> leaders<00:54:43.414> were<00:54:43.559> posting<00:54:43.992> about<00:54:44.314> it<00:54:44.458> on<00:54:44.538> their<00:54:44.699> social<00:54:45.020> media<00:54:45.325> channels.

00:54:45.759 --> 00:54:52.938
They<00:54:45.823> were<00:54:45.984> back-channeling<00:54:46.626> with<00:54:46.787> their<00:54:47.012> peers<00:54:47.815> and<00:54:48.136> all<00:54:48.297> of<00:54:48.393> us<00:54:48.489> just<00:54:48.778> worked<00:54:49.742> pretty<00:54:49.919> much<00:54:50.144> overtime<00:54:50.722> until<00:54:52.151> the<00:54:52.231> majority.

00:54:53.211 --> 00:54:57.949
And<00:54:53.372> then,<00:54:53.532> we<00:54:53.693> took<00:54:53.853> care<00:54:54.014> of<00:54:54.094> the<00:54:54.239> long<00:54:54.496> tail<00:54:54.737> also<00:54:55.042> to<00:54:55.122> make<00:54:55.219> sure<00:54:55.540> that<00:54:55.700> they<00:54:55.845> landed<00:54:56.262> in<00:54:56.343> great<00:54:56.519> spots.

00:54:58.174 --> 00:55:03.409
And<00:54:59.378> it<00:54:59.539> works<00:54:59.956> like<00:55:00.101> you<00:55:00.181> said,<00:55:00.422> which<00:55:01.000> it<00:55:01.161> so<00:55:01.546> rarely<00:55:01.884> does,<00:55:02.847> but<00:55:02.992> it<00:55:03.088> works.

00:55:03.570 --> 00:55:08.067
And<00:55:03.731> this<00:55:03.875> was<00:55:04.036> a<00:55:04.116> huge<00:55:04.373> bet<00:55:04.678> because<00:55:04.919> this<00:55:05.096> is<00:55:05.176> during<00:55:05.561> COVID-19<00:55:06.236> and<00:55:06.364> businesses<00:55:06.782> are<00:55:06.927> literally<00:55:07.248> shutting<00:55:07.585> down.

00:55:08.243 --> 00:55:11.072
I<00:55:08.452> mean,<00:55:08.549> the<00:55:08.629> government<00:55:08.934> was<00:55:09.095> handing<00:55:09.255> out<00:55:09.320> by<00:55:09.352> like<00:55:09.995> trillions<00:55:10.333> of<00:55:10.397> dollars,<00:55:10.944> right?

00:55:11.121 --> 00:55:12.970
Just<00:55:11.281> to<00:55:11.362> keep<00:55:11.925> businesses<00:55:12.568> afloat.

00:55:14.401 --> 00:55:14.948
It<00:55:14.643> works.

00:55:15.028 --> 00:55:19.186
So,<00:55:15.077> not<00:55:15.318> only<00:55:15.688> do<00:55:15.720> you<00:55:15.945> grow,<00:55:16.186> but<00:55:16.331> you<00:55:16.492> grow<00:55:16.814> rapidly<00:55:17.474> and<00:55:17.571> it<00:55:17.943> becomes<00:55:18.217> super<00:55:18.589> successful.

00:55:19.720 --> 00:55:23.435
At<00:55:19.816> what<00:55:20.059> point<00:55:20.947> do<00:55:21.093> you<00:55:21.173> start<00:55:21.496> having<00:55:21.755> these<00:55:21.916> conversations<00:55:22.563> with<00:55:22.724> Bill.com?

00:55:27.255 --> 00:55:30.452
Towards<00:55:27.578> the<00:55:27.642> end<00:55:27.901> of<00:55:27.981> the<00:55:28.062> summer,<00:55:28.546> early<00:55:28.853> fall<00:55:29.580> of<00:55:29.838> 2020.

00:55:30.710 --> 00:55:31.598
And<00:55:30.871> it<00:55:30.952> wasn't<00:55:31.194> just<00:55:31.372> them.

00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:33.422
We<00:55:31.711> had<00:55:31.856> several<00:55:32.260> groups<00:55:32.583> reaching<00:55:32.970> out<00:55:33.132> to<00:55:33.293> us.

00:55:34.100 --> 00:55:35.699
It's<00:55:34.585> kind<00:55:34.682> of<00:55:34.746> been<00:55:34.843> the<00:55:34.924> story<00:55:35.263> of<00:55:35.408> Divi<00:55:35.586> all<00:55:35.634> along.

00:55:36.162 --> 00:55:44.752
That<00:55:37.765> groups<00:55:38.085> knew<00:55:38.261> that<00:55:38.486> what<00:55:38.710> we<00:55:38.790> had<00:55:38.967> built<00:55:39.207> was<00:55:39.319> special,<00:55:39.992> that<00:55:40.088> we<00:55:40.233> had<00:55:40.329> tapped<00:55:40.713> into<00:55:41.114> and<00:55:41.274> created<00:55:41.691> a<00:55:41.707> new<00:55:41.996> category<00:55:43.117> and<00:55:43.774> they<00:55:43.919> wanted<00:55:44.159> access<00:55:44.560> to<00:55:44.656> that.

00:55:44.816 --> 00:55:52.172
But<00:55:45.057> Build.com<00:55:45.521> specifically<00:55:46.900> in<00:55:47.060> the<00:55:47.220> fall,<00:55:47.781> early<00:55:48.021> fall,<00:55:48.967> and<00:55:50.826> we<00:55:51.066> just<00:55:51.307> built<00:55:51.531> a<00:55:51.547> relationship.

00:55:52.252 --> 00:56:04.416
We<00:55:52.284> spent<00:55:52.573> time<00:55:52.749> with<00:55:52.925> each<00:55:53.134> other,<00:55:53.374> we<00:55:53.406> spent<00:55:53.695> time,<00:55:54.111> a<00:55:54.175> lot<00:55:54.336> of<00:55:54.432> time<00:55:54.592> talking<00:55:55.057> with<00:55:55.217> each<00:55:55.377> other<00:55:56.740> about<00:55:56.900> our<00:55:57.156> shared<00:55:57.477> vision,<00:55:58.999> about<00:55:59.704> kind<00:55:59.817> of<00:55:59.881> the<00:56:00.025> go<00:56:00.201> forward,<00:56:00.922> what<00:56:01.243> the<00:56:01.483> ecosystem<00:56:02.124> could<00:56:02.429> and<00:56:02.525> should<00:56:02.830> look<00:56:02.990> like<00:56:03.230> in<00:56:03.310> the<00:56:03.342> next<00:56:03.631> 5<00:56:03.871> to<00:56:03.951> 10<00:56:04.128> years.

00:56:05.073 --> 00:56:06.355
And<00:56:05.394> that's<00:56:05.634> really<00:56:05.810> what<00:56:05.971> we<00:56:06.051> focused<00:56:06.291> on.

00:56:06.500 --> 00:56:06.548
On.

00:56:07.736 --> 00:56:09.792
In<00:56:07.816> the<00:56:07.897> meantime,<00:56:08.298> we<00:56:08.459> actually<00:56:08.780> continued<00:56:09.198> fundraising.

00:56:09.984 --> 00:56:13.293
And<00:56:10.081> so<00:56:11.350> getting<00:56:11.671> acquired<00:56:12.233> wasn't<00:56:12.474> a<00:56:12.538> priority<00:56:13.020> to<00:56:13.052> me.

00:56:13.357 --> 00:56:17.019
Making<00:56:13.614> sure<00:56:13.839> Divvy<00:56:14.706> would<00:56:14.867> grow<00:56:15.268> orders<00:56:15.461> of<00:56:15.525> magnitude<00:56:16.248> was<00:56:16.408> the<00:56:16.489> priority.

00:56:17.372 --> 00:56:27.185
And<00:56:17.468> so<00:56:17.757> we<00:56:17.918> did<00:56:18.239> end<00:56:18.400> up<00:56:18.496> raising<00:56:19.540> another<00:56:19.926> round,<00:56:20.343> but<00:56:20.504> it<00:56:20.568> was<00:56:20.680> a<00:56:20.745> very<00:56:21.130> opportunistic<00:56:21.853> round<00:56:22.656> of<00:56:23.009> some<00:56:23.860> awesome<00:56:24.117> investors<00:56:24.760> that<00:56:24.920> believed<00:56:25.322> in<00:56:25.402> us,<00:56:25.563> PayPal<00:56:26.125> being<00:56:26.366> one<00:56:26.526> of<00:56:26.606> them,<00:56:27.088> right?

00:56:27.329 --> 00:56:31.617
Which<00:56:27.715> it<00:56:27.811> came<00:56:28.116> with<00:56:29.417> elements<00:56:29.754> of<00:56:29.883> commercial<00:56:30.316> agreements<00:56:30.782> and<00:56:30.927> distribution.

00:56:31.730 --> 00:56:36.775
So<00:56:32.003> an<00:56:32.147> opportunity<00:56:32.790> to<00:56:33.095> really<00:56:33.320> really<00:56:33.675> flex<00:56:33.998> our<00:56:34.304> muscle<00:56:35.209> and<00:56:35.370> grow<00:56:36.420> even<00:56:36.646> more.

00:56:37.792 --> 00:56:48.676
But<00:56:37.954> then<00:56:38.115> we<00:56:38.260> just<00:56:39.003> kept<00:56:39.229> communicating<00:56:39.891> with<00:56:40.198> Bill.com<00:56:40.715> and<00:56:40.860> it<00:56:40.908> was<00:56:41.167> after<00:56:41.748> the<00:56:41.893> holiday<00:56:42.154> breaks<00:56:42.580> of<00:56:42.649> Christmases<00:56:45.307> in<00:56:45.536> January<00:56:46.697> when<00:56:47.122> the<00:56:47.269> talks<00:56:47.760> picked<00:56:48.071> up<00:56:48.185> in<00:56:48.267> earnest.

00:56:50.380 --> 00:56:52.214
I<00:56:50.396> have<00:56:50.493> two<00:56:50.656> final<00:56:50.964> questions<00:56:51.305> for<00:56:51.451> you,<00:56:51.548> then<00:56:51.646> I'll<00:56:51.776> let<00:56:51.873> you<00:56:52.019> go.

00:56:52.847 --> 00:56:57.198
And<00:56:52.928> again,<00:56:53.172> you<00:56:53.253> got<00:56:53.383> to<00:56:53.416> come<00:56:53.578> back<00:56:53.886> on<00:56:53.935> because<00:56:54.211> you<00:56:54.292> and<00:56:54.373> I<00:56:54.390> could<00:56:54.552> talk<00:56:54.779> about<00:56:54.958> a<00:56:54.974> lot<00:56:55.201> of<00:56:55.266> this<00:56:55.348> stuff<00:56:56.663> for<00:56:56.971> hours.

00:56:58.970 --> 00:57:04.606
My<00:57:00.190> second<00:57:00.608> to<00:57:00.688> final<00:57:01.009> question<00:57:01.475> is<00:57:01.651> this:<00:57:03.000> how<00:57:03.177> important<00:57:03.594> is<00:57:03.884> faith<00:57:04.285> to<00:57:04.446> you?

00:57:05.425 --> 00:57:10.227
This<00:57:05.586> is<00:57:05.730> another<00:57:06.051> thing<00:57:06.228> that<00:57:06.453> you've<00:57:06.870> brought<00:57:07.176> up<00:57:07.288> in<00:57:07.416> this<00:57:07.593> conversation,<00:57:07.995> whether<00:57:08.235> people<00:57:08.781> are<00:57:08.878> catching<00:57:09.263> on<00:57:09.344> with<00:57:09.440> that<00:57:09.681> or<00:57:09.777> not.

00:57:10.628 --> 00:57:11.736
I've<00:57:10.789> caught<00:57:10.965> it<00:57:11.046> a<00:57:11.126> number<00:57:11.367> of<00:57:11.447> times.

00:57:11.929 --> 00:57:15.703
You<00:57:12.074> went<00:57:12.314> on<00:57:12.957> a<00:57:13.455> mission<00:57:13.760> for<00:57:13.856> the<00:57:13.936> Church<00:57:14.177> of<00:57:14.241> Jesus<00:57:14.482> Christ<00:57:14.723> of<00:57:14.804> Latter-day<00:57:15.141> Saints.

00:57:16.570 --> 00:57:27.811
I<00:57:16.811> assume,<00:57:17.726> I'm<00:57:17.871> just<00:57:18.047> assuming<00:57:18.497> here,<00:57:18.674> that<00:57:18.754> it's<00:57:18.899> probably<00:57:19.139> where<00:57:19.300> like<00:57:19.477> your<00:57:19.701> language<00:57:20.617> skills<00:57:21.323> were<00:57:21.709> developed<00:57:22.271> and<00:57:22.528> probably<00:57:23.010> helped<00:57:23.315> along<00:57:23.572> with<00:57:23.732> the<00:57:24.856> CIA<00:57:25.997> stuff<00:57:26.462> and<00:57:26.543> all<00:57:26.687> that<00:57:26.783> stuff<00:57:27.089> that<00:57:27.265> you<00:57:27.410> were<00:57:27.506> just<00:57:27.667> going.

00:57:28.132 --> 00:57:30.147
How<00:57:28.293> important<00:57:28.710> is<00:57:28.823> faith<00:57:29.000> faith<00:57:29.532> in<00:57:29.698> your<00:57:29.931> life?

00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:47.192
Yeah,<00:57:34.071> it's<00:57:34.281> a<00:57:34.701> really<00:57:35.008> material,<00:57:36.140> um,<00:57:37.272> aspect,<00:57:37.935> and<00:57:38.032> it's,<00:57:38.339> it's,<00:57:38.727> it's<00:57:39.050> kind<00:57:39.228> of<00:57:39.309> the<00:57:39.471> blanket<00:57:40.182> that<00:57:40.344> I<00:57:40.425> think<00:57:40.748> covers<00:57:41.330> the<00:57:41.492> pillars<00:57:42.041> of<00:57:42.138> my<00:57:42.300> life<00:57:42.607> instead<00:57:42.931> of<00:57:43.173> it<00:57:43.400> being<00:57:43.738> a<00:57:43.835> pillar<00:57:44.723> of<00:57:44.884> my<00:57:44.965> life,<00:57:45.368> which<00:57:45.530> I<00:57:45.594> think<00:57:45.756> a<00:57:45.772> lot<00:57:45.949> of<00:57:46.014> people<00:57:46.240> like<00:57:46.434> to<00:57:46.579> visualize.

00:57:47.773 --> 00:57:54.026
You<00:57:47.805> know,<00:57:48.257> I<00:57:48.758> am<00:57:49.242> a<00:57:49.322> dad,<00:57:49.952> I<00:57:50.694> am<00:57:50.791> a<00:57:50.839> CEO,<00:57:52.557> I<00:57:52.867> like<00:57:53.096> fishing,<00:57:53.504> whatever,<00:57:53.847> right?

00:57:54.092 --> 00:58:05.613
Whatever<00:57:54.434> the,<00:57:54.663> the<00:57:54.745> pillars<00:57:55.153> of<00:57:55.398> an<00:57:55.577> individual,<00:57:56.312> it's<00:57:56.524> the<00:57:56.606> wrapper<00:57:56.867> around<00:57:57.918> um,<00:57:58.480> in<00:57:58.802> a<00:57:58.898> less<00:57:59.139> dogmatic<00:57:59.765> way<00:57:59.942> also,<00:58:00.745> in<00:58:00.890> a<00:58:00.906> more<00:58:01.533> of—<00:58:02.014> I,<00:58:03.059> uh,<00:58:03.396> respect<00:58:03.974> and<00:58:04.103> believe<00:58:04.745> in<00:58:04.986> a<00:58:05.067> higher<00:58:05.308> calling.

00:58:05.886 --> 00:58:13.950
It's,<00:58:06.287> it's<00:58:06.930> kind<00:58:07.026> of<00:58:07.075> spoken<00:58:07.412> to<00:58:07.492> my<00:58:07.653> core<00:58:08.199> in,<00:58:08.376> in<00:58:08.520> very<00:58:08.777> meaningful<00:58:09.259> ways,<00:58:10.287> and<00:58:10.769> because<00:58:11.203> of<00:58:11.348> that,<00:58:12.311> I'm<00:58:12.472> not<00:58:12.858> willing<00:58:13.195> to<00:58:13.356> ignore<00:58:13.757> that.

00:58:14.303 --> 00:58:27.156
Um,<00:58:14.785> it's—<00:58:15.299> I,<00:58:15.749> I've<00:58:16.343> just<00:58:16.729> been<00:58:17.934> too<00:58:18.175> fortunate<00:58:19.123> in<00:58:19.380> my<00:58:19.524> life<00:58:19.861> to<00:58:20.038> ignore<00:58:21.227> some<00:58:21.468> pretty<00:58:21.853> deep<00:58:22.094> experiences,<00:58:23.139> and<00:58:23.219> so<00:58:23.637> it<00:58:23.781> ends<00:58:24.038> up<00:58:24.263> navigating<00:58:25.715> a<00:58:25.796> lot<00:58:25.990> of<00:58:26.055> my<00:58:26.314> decision-making.

00:58:27.269 --> 00:58:29.649
We're<00:58:27.431> careful<00:58:27.787> not<00:58:28.062> to<00:58:28.143> let<00:58:28.321> that<00:58:28.548> creep<00:58:28.807> into<00:58:29.066> the<00:58:29.196> workplace.

00:58:30.102 --> 00:58:37.114
I<00:58:30.183> think<00:58:30.361> if<00:58:30.491> you<00:58:30.523> surveyed<00:58:31.073> the<00:58:31.138> Divi<00:58:31.397> employees,<00:58:32.508> they<00:58:32.605> would<00:58:32.751> say<00:58:33.011> that<00:58:33.238> this<00:58:33.400> is<00:58:33.578> about<00:58:34.049> as<00:58:34.535> agnostic<00:58:35.184> as<00:58:35.298> it<00:58:35.427> gets,<00:58:35.703> especially<00:58:36.092> for<00:58:36.190> a<00:58:36.401> Utah<00:58:36.725> company.

00:58:37.455 --> 00:58:38.639
We're<00:58:37.552> just<00:58:37.731> a<00:58:37.795> respecter<00:58:38.363> of<00:58:38.460> it<00:58:38.590> all.

00:58:39.810 --> 00:58:49.421
But<00:58:40.309> it<00:58:40.406> governs<00:58:40.889> a<00:58:41.034> lot<00:58:41.598> of<00:58:42.001> how<00:58:42.179> I<00:58:42.340> think,<00:58:42.646> a<00:58:42.743> lot<00:58:44.096> of<00:58:44.999> just<00:58:45.482> trying<00:58:45.724> to<00:58:45.805> be<00:58:45.982> a<00:58:46.127> good<00:58:46.433> dude,<00:58:47.570> like<00:58:47.732> kind,<00:58:48.398> generous,<00:58:48.983> thoughtful.

00:58:50.201 --> 00:58:55.567
It<00:58:50.282> motivates<00:58:50.835> me<00:58:50.932> to<00:58:51.013> try<00:58:51.176> to<00:58:51.257> be<00:58:51.420> better<00:58:52.056> on<00:58:52.313> a<00:58:52.393> daily<00:58:52.634> basis<00:58:54.076> instead<00:58:54.397> of<00:58:54.477> just<00:58:54.637> resting<00:58:54.974> on<00:58:55.022> my<00:58:55.198> laurels.

00:58:55.984 --> 00:59:00.456
I<00:58:56.016> think<00:58:56.160> a<00:58:56.176> lot<00:58:56.336> of<00:58:56.401> people<00:58:56.705> after<00:58:56.962> a<00:58:57.042> big<00:58:57.282> exit<00:58:58.565> would<00:58:58.709> be<00:58:58.805> like,<00:58:59.142> I<00:58:59.206> frickin'<00:58:59.446> did<00:58:59.623> it,<00:58:59.927> like,<00:59:00.039> I'm<00:59:00.168> done.

00:59:00.953 --> 00:59:06.692
And<00:59:01.210> I<00:59:01.354> couldn't<00:59:01.610> be<00:59:01.755> more<00:59:02.011> motivated<00:59:02.636> than<00:59:02.877> ever<00:59:03.197> to<00:59:03.374> scale<00:59:04.095> kind<00:59:04.255> of<00:59:04.400> my<00:59:04.736> life<00:59:05.939> than<00:59:06.323> right<00:59:06.500> now.

00:59:06.981 --> 00:59:14.290
And<00:59:07.061> I<00:59:07.157> think<00:59:07.381> that's<00:59:07.622> not<00:59:07.782> driven<00:59:09.209> from<00:59:09.385> anything<00:59:09.850> other<00:59:10.106> than<00:59:10.427> the<00:59:10.732> faith<00:59:10.988> aspect<00:59:11.453> of<00:59:11.549> just<00:59:11.693> trying<00:59:11.870> to<00:59:11.950> be,<00:59:12.591> you<00:59:12.671> know,<00:59:12.783> scaled<00:59:13.232> in<00:59:13.312> all<00:59:13.473> aspects<00:59:13.890> of<00:59:13.954> my<00:59:14.050> life.

00:59:14.451 --> 00:59:15.076
So<00:59:14.611> it's<00:59:14.915> big.

00:59:16.182 --> 00:59:31.756
My<00:59:16.278> final<00:59:16.583> question<00:59:16.839> for<00:59:17.063> you<00:59:17.304> is,<00:59:17.560> what<00:59:17.865> is<00:59:18.041> the<00:59:18.202> best<00:59:18.683> piece<00:59:19.003> of<00:59:19.228> leadership<00:59:19.885> advice<00:59:20.366> you've<00:59:20.590> received,<00:59:21.408> or<00:59:21.552> what<00:59:21.712> is<00:59:21.808> the<00:59:21.969> best<00:59:22.369> piece<00:59:22.690> of<00:59:22.850> leadership<00:59:23.267> advice<00:59:23.460> advice<00:59:23.959> you<00:59:24.056> would<00:59:24.281> give<00:59:24.781> to<00:59:24.926> those<00:59:25.264> who<00:59:25.505> are<00:59:25.973> listening<00:59:27.181> or<00:59:27.342> watching<00:59:27.825> this<00:59:28.727> as<00:59:28.889> they<00:59:29.050> think<00:59:29.227> about<00:59:29.517> your<00:59:29.775> journey<00:59:30.564> and<00:59:30.725> what<00:59:30.838> has<00:59:30.983> helped<00:59:31.305> you<00:59:31.450> the<00:59:31.498> most?

00:59:40.176 --> 00:59:41.370
A<00:59:40.192> super<00:59:40.585> simple<00:59:40.912> phrase.

00:59:42.287 --> 00:59:43.252
You<00:59:42.532> are<00:59:42.712> what<00:59:42.941> you<00:59:43.040> do.

00:59:45.438 --> 00:59:47.562
It's—<00:59:45.856> and<00:59:46.017> that<00:59:46.403> is<00:59:46.580> just<00:59:46.886> critical<00:59:47.305> to<00:59:47.450> me.

00:59:47.868 --> 00:59:50.621
It's<00:59:48.415> how<00:59:48.657> I<00:59:48.898> think<00:59:49.075> about<00:59:49.381> my<00:59:49.558> own<00:59:49.703> personal<00:59:50.122> leadership.

00:59:50.685 --> 00:59:51.715
It's<00:59:50.765> how<00:59:50.926> I<00:59:51.007> think<00:59:51.184> about<00:59:51.425> recruiting.

00:59:53.507 --> 01:00:07.574
There's<00:59:53.732> a<00:59:53.748> lot<00:59:53.989> of<00:59:54.069> people<00:59:54.471> that<00:59:54.872> are<00:59:55.820> fantastic<00:59:57.602> at<00:59:58.004> thinking<00:59:58.871> and<00:59:59.192> at<00:59:59.304> saying,<01:00:01.055> but<01:00:01.295> are<01:00:01.328> not<01:00:01.681> great<01:00:02.002> at<01:00:02.098> finish-lining,<01:00:03.222> at<01:00:03.367> creating,<01:00:04.571> at<01:00:04.973> building,<01:00:05.695> at<01:00:05.872> making<01:00:06.498> people<01:00:06.835> feel<01:00:07.237> great.

01:00:08.104 --> 01:00:09.180
And<01:00:08.425> you<01:00:08.586> are<01:00:08.762> what<01:00:08.923> you<01:00:09.083> do.

01:00:09.565 --> 01:00:11.653
And<01:00:09.806> I<01:00:09.886> think<01:00:10.127> a<01:00:10.208> lot<01:00:10.384> of<01:00:10.448> leaders<01:00:10.850> fall<01:00:11.010> short<01:00:11.267> of<01:00:11.332> that.

01:00:12.118 --> 01:00:19.922
And<01:00:12.279> once<01:00:12.456> they're<01:00:12.680> able<01:00:12.777> to<01:00:12.937> really<01:00:13.242> internalize<01:00:13.965> that,<01:00:14.688> I<01:00:15.025> think<01:00:15.507> that<01:00:15.812> you<01:00:15.908> see<01:00:16.775> a<01:00:16.936> more<01:00:17.434> well-rounded<01:00:18.076> person<01:00:18.542> once<01:00:18.782> they<01:00:19.200> internalize<01:00:19.746> that.

01:00:20.324 --> 01:00:23.904
And<01:00:20.468> I<01:00:20.565> wish<01:00:20.805> that<01:00:20.966> was<01:00:21.046> something<01:00:21.367> that<01:00:21.592> I<01:00:22.250> understood<01:00:22.957> with<01:00:23.117> greater<01:00:23.454> clarity.

01:00:24.273 --> 01:00:30.759
I<01:00:24.402> understood<01:00:24.739> the<01:00:24.819> principle,<01:00:25.381> but<01:00:25.525> with<01:00:25.702> truly<01:00:26.408> greater<01:00:26.665> clarity,<01:00:27.227> clarity<01:00:27.612> when<01:00:27.709> I<01:00:27.773> was<01:00:27.933> younger,<01:00:28.271> because<01:00:28.608> it's<01:00:28.752> been<01:00:28.913> pretty<01:00:30.117> formative<01:00:30.502> for<01:00:30.614> me.

01:00:31.883 --> 01:00:33.119
You<01:00:32.268> are<01:00:32.605> what<01:00:32.830> you<01:00:32.926> do.

01:00:33.328 --> 01:00:36.025
Blake<01:00:33.633> Murray,<01:00:33.986> CEO,<01:00:34.853> co-founder<01:00:35.575> of<01:00:35.736> Divi.

01:00:36.458 --> 01:00:37.116
Blake,<01:00:36.763> love<01:00:36.876> you,<01:00:36.956> man.

01:00:37.181 --> 01:00:38.979
Thank<01:00:37.341> you<01:00:37.421> so<01:00:37.742> much<01:00:37.983> for<01:00:38.144> coming<01:00:38.449> on<01:00:38.561> here<01:00:38.786> again.

01:00:39.027 --> 01:00:41.194
Let's<01:00:39.187> have<01:00:39.348> you<01:00:39.492> back<01:00:39.829> and<01:00:39.990> congrats<01:00:40.456> on<01:00:40.616> the<01:00:40.696> success.

01:00:41.258 --> 01:00:45.545
Congrats<01:00:41.611> on<01:00:41.692> everything<01:00:41.997> that's<01:00:42.141> happened<01:00:42.318> with<01:00:42.478> Build.com<01:00:43.586> and<01:00:44.646> best<01:00:44.903> of<01:00:45.031> luck,<01:00:45.208> my<01:00:45.352> friend.

01:00:45.593 --> 01:00:49.171
I<01:00:45.673> really<01:00:45.866> appreciate<01:00:46.235> you<01:00:46.267> doing<01:00:49.151> this.

01:00:49.171 --> 01:00:49.624
Thanks,<01:00:49.478> Clint.

01:00:49.673 --> 01:00:52.246
Appreciate<01:00:50.158> it,<01:00:51.906> man.

```