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# Headline Venture Partner Kamran Ansari: Inside FinTech investing
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/headline-vc-venture-partner-kamran-ansari/
- Published: 2025-03-11T10:00:06.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-28T03:02:26.000Z
- Description: The Headline VC and Infinity Ventures partner on why banks don't innovate, why Stripe won't go public yet, and why businesses still pay each other with faxes.
- Author: Clint Betts

# Right about the IPOs, wrong about the buyers

When Kamran Ansari came on the CEO.com Podcast in March 2025, venture capital was starved for exits, and nobody knew when that would end. Ansari said it, with names attached. Klarna and Chime would both list, both within about six months.

They did. [Chime priced its IPO at $27 a share](https://www.chime.com/newsroom/chime-announces-pricing-of-initial-public-offering/?ref=ceo.com) and opened on Nasdaq in June 2025\. [Klarna listed on the New York Stock Exchange](https://investors.klarna.com/News--Events/news/news-details/2025/Klarna-Completes-Initial-Public-Offering-1f8a0a074/default.aspx?ref=ceo.com) at $40 a share on September 10\. He had the order backward, since he expected Klarna to go first and Chime to follow, and Klarna took a couple of months longer than he implied. On the substance, he was right. His reasoning was that other funds would book returns in consumer fintech, a sector everyone had written off as box office poison, and that the cognitive dissonance alone would drag investors back to it.

He made a second prediction in the same conversation. He thought the incoming administration's posture on antitrust would thaw M&A, and that this, more than any crypto rally, would be the real story for fintech and for venture generally. Strategic buyers had been sitting frozen. He cited Google's rumored runs at HubSpot and at Wiz as deals that never happened, and private equity, which had the field to itself and, as he put it, broke out the shopping cart.

The Wiz half of that aged in about a week. On March 18, 2025, [Google entered a definitive agreement to buy Wiz for $32 billion in cash](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204425000027/goog-20250318.htm?ref=ceo.com), and [the deal closed on March 11, 2026](https://abc.xyz/investor/news/news-details/2026/Google-Completes-Acquisition-of-Wiz-2026-ta7OaU2uA0/default.aspx?ref=ceo.com). The HubSpot talks, which Alphabet abandoned in 2024, never came back.

So the thaw arrived, and it arrived somewhere else. Eight months after this conversation, [talking to PYMNTS](https://www.pymnts.com/news/fintech-investments/2025/kamran-ansari-on-the-fintech-reset-execution-endurance-and-the-end-of-easy-money/?ref=ceo.com), Ansari said exits were "drier than at any point" in his venture career, and the M&A pipeline was quieter than ever. His firm invests at seed and Series A, where acquisition is the normal outcome, and that market stayed frozen even as the mega-deals came back. He now argues the drought is forcing founders to grow sustainably and prove they can be profitable, which is a reasonable thing to say and not what he expected to be saying.

## The category he filed in the wrong drawer

The third thing worth flagging is crypto. Ansari was candid on the show that it is not his beat. He does not own Bitcoin, has nothing against it, and figured there was enough wood to chop in core fintech without pretending to be an expert in everything. He called crypto perception-driven, noting there is no Fort Knox full of gold bars behind a coin.

Then, in the middle of the Stripe discussion, he mentioned almost in passing that Stripe had recently bought a stablecoin company for a billion dollars. He could not recall the name. It was Bridge. [Stripe closed that acquisition in February 2025](https://stripe.com/newsroom/news/stripe-completes-bridge-acquisition?ref=ceo.com), and at [$1.1 billion it was the largest purchase in the company's history](https://fintechmagazine.com/articles/stripe-completes-us-1-1bn-bridge-acquisition?ref=ceo.com).

By October 2025, he was describing stablecoins as [the one corner of crypto ordinary businesses would actually adopt](https://www.heyfuturenexus.com/posts/infinity-ventures-newest-venture-partner-kamran-ansari-eyes-stablecoins-as-fintechs-next-wave?ref=ceo.com), with companies building cross-border transfers, currency exchange, cards, and business credit on top of the infrastructure. That is not a reversal of what he said on the podcast. It is a recategorization. The thing he had correctly filed under crypto, and therefore under not-my-problem, moved into payments, which has been his problem for 20 years.

## The part that did not move

Underneath the calls that landed and the ones that did not, Ansari has been saying the same thing about where the money is, and he is still saying it.

Name the fintech companies everyone knows. Stripe, PayPal, Venmo, Braintree, Affirm, Klarna, Chime. Each one helps a consumer pay a business or a consumer pay another consumer. Almost none of them help a business pay another business, even though more dollars move that way. When an airline pays Boeing for planes, the transaction still runs on PDFs, faxes, and a 90-day line from a bank. The largest digital player in the category, by his reckoning, is Bill.com, worth a fraction of the consumer names.

The hard part is that B2B is not one market. Every vertical bills differently, which is why the companies that work go after one meaty vertical first. Ansari backed Coast, which does payments for fleet operators, aimed less at 18-wheelers than at HVAC and plumbing outfits. He has sat on the board of Credit Key for years, which he describes as a B2B version of Affirm or Klarna, financing everything from restaurant supplies to dental equipment.

He said this on the podcast. He said it again to PYMNTS eight months later. It is also the mandate at [Infinity Ventures](https://www.infinityvc.capital/about?ref=ceo.com), the firm spun out of PayPal Ventures that [he joined as a venture partner in October 2025](https://www.heyfuturenexus.com/posts/infinity-ventures-newest-venture-partner-kamran-ansari-eyes-stablecoins-as-fintechs-next-wave?ref=ceo.com) after his stint at Headline.

On AI, he has been consistent to the word. He told us AI had become like HTML or JavaScript, a foundational layer rather than a category, and that plugging into a model was now table stakes the way AWS had been a decade earlier. He repeated the line he mostly agrees with, that 90% of AI companies are overvalued and 10% are undervalued, and the trouble is knowing which is which. He gave PYMNTS the identical formulation eight months on. Take that as a man repeating himself or as a man who has not seen anything to change his mind. Either way, it is why he keeps coming back to founders as the only durable signal at seed.

## The chance he was given

Every episode of the CEO.com Podcast ends the same way, because at CEO.com we believe the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes. Ansari named Alan Patricof, who founded Apax Partners and started Greycroft as something close to a retirement project, raising the first fund from friends and contacts.

Patricof hired him at the end of 2011 and put him on probation. Lower salary, fixed period, prove yourself. The feedback was constant and blunt. You are being too soft here. You did not ask this question. You are paying too much for this deal. And then Greycroft let him run. Do your deals, put your name on them, own what happens.

"That's the only way you really see if someone can succeed in the business," Ansari said.

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction and Kamran's Background
00:00:44 Kamran's Career Journey
00:02:33 State of Fintech and Bank Innovation
00:04:50 Stripe's Market Position and Challenges
00:07:35 Stripe and Shopify Relationship
00:08:48 Cryptocurrency and Regulatory Environment
00:11:02 M&A Environment and 2025 Predictions
00:15:00 Early Stage Investment Focus on B2B Payments
00:18:01 A Day in the Life of a Venture Partner
00:20:04 Silicon Valley's Resilience and Other Tech Hubs
00:21:47 Reading Recommendations for Entrepreneurs
00:23:12 The Future of AI in Venture Capital
00:27:31 Current State of Venture Capital
00:31:02 The Importance of Mentorship in Venture Capital
```

```vtt
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Sometimes<00:02:52.332> when<00:02:52.428> I<00:02:52.508> think<00:02:52.684> about<00:02:52.924> that<00:02:53.453> whole<00:02:53.565> sector,<00:02:53.886> I<00:02:53.950> think<00:02:54.126> it's<00:02:54.270> kind<00:02:54.414> of<00:02:54.510> in<00:02:54.590> a,<00:02:55.440> It's<00:02:55.640> in<00:02:55.720> its<00:02:55.880> infancy.

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And<00:02:57.280> then<00:02:57.420> I<00:02:57.500> wonder<00:02:57.720> why<00:02:57.960> banks<00:02:58.280> don't<00:02:59.300> innovate.

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Like,<00:03:00.440> tell<00:03:00.520> me,<00:03:00.940> like,<00:03:01.900> what's<00:03:02.620> the<00:03:03.000> state<00:03:03.300> of<00:03:03.460> fintech<00:03:03.780> in<00:03:03.940> 2023?

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Well,<00:03:05.340> I'll<00:03:05.540> take<00:03:05.660> the<00:03:05.760> first<00:03:05.940> question.

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I'll<00:03:06.800> take<00:03:06.860> the<00:03:06.920> last<00:03:07.060> question<00:03:07.360> first.

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You<00:03:07.800> know,<00:03:08.380> banks<00:03:08.520> don't<00:03:08.700> innovate<00:03:08.940> because<00:03:09.320> they<00:03:09.740> don't<00:03:09.860> really<00:03:10.020> have<00:03:10.220> to.

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They're<00:03:13.300> very<00:03:13.820> entrenched<00:03:14.360> and<00:03:14.720> established<00:03:15.300> phenomenal<00:03:15.860> businesses<00:03:16.360> with<00:03:16.940> high<00:03:17.360> gross<00:03:17.520> margins<00:03:17.980> and<00:03:18.400> great<00:03:18.680> profits.

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And<00:03:20.460> it's<00:03:20.600> not<00:03:20.800> like<00:03:20.980> you're<00:03:21.180> seeing,<00:03:21.580> you<00:03:21.700> know,<00:03:22.140> customers<00:03:22.380> and<00:03:22.620> businesses<00:03:23.756> in<00:03:23.852> droves,<00:03:24.413> you<00:03:24.494> know,<00:03:24.654> leaving<00:03:24.975> JP<00:03:25.231> Morgan<00:03:25.600> and<00:03:25.680> Citibank<00:03:26.258> and,<00:03:26.963> you<00:03:26.995> know,<00:03:27.445> running<00:03:27.685> out<00:03:27.781> the<00:03:27.862> door.

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So<00:03:28.327> I<00:03:28.343> think<00:03:28.503> that,<00:03:28.744> you<00:03:28.840> know,<00:03:29.161> the<00:03:29.305> banks<00:03:29.545> will<00:03:29.610> always<00:03:29.866> be<00:03:30.027> there,<00:03:30.652> and,<00:03:30.973> um,<00:03:32.015> and,<00:03:32.577> you<00:03:32.817> know,<00:03:33.010> they've<00:03:33.394> embraced<00:03:33.795> innovation<00:03:34.228> to<00:03:34.277> some<00:03:34.517> degree,<00:03:34.918> some<00:03:35.143> more<00:03:35.303> than<00:03:35.463> others.

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Um,<00:03:36.987> one<00:03:37.067> of<00:03:37.099> the<00:03:37.243> real,<00:03:38.510> uh,<00:03:39.729> you<00:03:39.826> know,<00:03:40.291> issues<00:03:40.676> with<00:03:40.756> the<00:03:40.868> Silicon<00:03:41.333> Valley—<00:03:41.991> Silicon<00:03:42.375> Valley<00:03:42.616> Bank<00:03:42.873> and<00:03:43.017> First<00:03:43.242> Republic,<00:03:44.525> um,<00:03:45.086> kind<00:03:45.278> of<00:03:45.407> transitions<00:03:46.048> that<00:03:46.128> happened<00:03:46.401> in<00:03:46.465> the<00:03:46.545> last<00:03:46.930> year<00:03:47.026> or<00:03:47.187> so<00:03:48.053> was<00:03:48.149> that<00:03:48.390> they<00:03:48.534> were<00:03:48.694> two<00:03:48.951> of<00:03:49.047> the<00:03:49.175> more<00:03:49.512> innovative,<00:03:50.074> digital-friendly,<00:03:51.661> uh,<00:03:51.838> banks.

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You<00:03:52.704> lost<00:03:53.040> that<00:03:54.652> aspect.

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But<00:03:55.202> you're<00:03:55.283> right,<00:03:55.397> fintech's<00:03:55.785> in<00:03:55.866> transition<00:03:56.594> as<00:03:56.692> a<00:03:56.756> sector.

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I<00:03:57.242> think<00:03:57.501> it's—<00:03:59.185> the<00:03:59.686> nice<00:03:59.978> thing<00:04:00.075> about<00:04:00.237> fintech<00:04:00.561> is<00:04:00.641> that<00:04:00.739> it's<00:04:00.868> a<00:04:00.900> super<00:04:01.208> category.

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It's<00:04:02.325> a<00:04:02.422> mega<00:04:02.681> sector.

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It<00:04:04.041> is<00:04:04.090> not<00:04:04.220> like,<00:04:05.246> you<00:04:05.278> know,<00:04:05.376> some<00:04:05.653> niche<00:04:05.913> part<00:04:06.076> of<00:04:06.174> the<00:04:06.239> economy.

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It's,<00:04:06.972> I<00:04:06.988> think,<00:04:08.031> by<00:04:08.291> some<00:04:08.519> accounts,<00:04:08.829> the<00:04:08.910> largest<00:04:09.252> portion<00:04:09.496> of<00:04:09.578> GDP<00:04:10.066> is<00:04:10.148> financial<00:04:10.473> services.

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I<00:04:12.287> think,<00:04:12.531> you<00:04:12.564> know,<00:04:12.710> but<00:04:12.808> that<00:04:12.938> and<00:04:13.117> healthcare<00:04:13.507> are<00:04:13.686> kind<00:04:13.865> of<00:04:13.995> one<00:04:14.093> and<00:04:14.239> two,<00:04:14.435> neck<00:04:14.662> and<00:04:14.744> neck.

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So<00:04:16.126> there's<00:04:16.289> a<00:04:16.305> lot<00:04:16.614> of<00:04:17.412> market<00:04:17.737> opportunity<00:04:18.323> across<00:04:19.821> what<00:04:19.965> I<00:04:20.062> consider<00:04:20.319> to<00:04:20.447> be<00:04:20.543> the<00:04:20.624> 4<00:04:21.170> pillars<00:04:21.507> of<00:04:21.571> fintech,<00:04:21.989> the<00:04:22.069> 4<00:04:22.374> main<00:04:22.791> kind<00:04:23.016> of<00:04:23.113> buckets,<00:04:23.514> each<00:04:23.674> of<00:04:23.755> which<00:04:23.883> itself<00:04:24.317> is<00:04:24.397> a<00:04:24.413> supercategory.

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So<00:04:25.842> payments,<00:04:27.223> lending,<00:04:28.235> asset<00:04:28.491> management,<00:04:28.877> including<00:04:29.198> stock<00:04:29.471> trading<00:04:29.776> and<00:04:29.856> all<00:04:29.921> that<00:04:30.017> kind<00:04:30.177> of<00:04:30.210> stuff,<00:04:30.659> and<00:04:30.804> then<00:04:31.366> insurance.

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So,<00:04:33.549> you<00:04:33.630> know,<00:04:33.694> and<00:04:33.774> all<00:04:33.935> 4<00:04:34.127> have<00:04:34.336> had<00:04:34.513> different<00:04:34.818> dynamics.

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And<00:04:35.380> I<00:04:35.396> think<00:04:36.038> payments<00:04:36.359> has<00:04:36.584> always<00:04:36.745> kind<00:04:36.905> of<00:04:36.937> led<00:04:37.162> the<00:04:37.307> way.

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The<00:04:37.949> more<00:04:38.045> established,<00:04:38.832> successful<00:04:39.394> companies,<00:04:40.534> the<00:04:40.678> public<00:04:41.000> companies<00:04:41.337> that<00:04:41.401> you've<00:04:41.562> heard<00:04:41.802> of<00:04:41.963> have<00:04:42.605> historically<00:04:43.183> been<00:04:43.424> payments<00:04:43.681> companies.

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But<00:04:44.147> I<00:04:44.227> think<00:04:44.307> you're<00:04:44.388> starting<00:04:44.660> to<00:04:44.709> see<00:04:45.352> movement<00:04:45.578> in<00:04:45.675> the<00:04:45.756> other<00:04:45.853> areas<00:04:46.240> as<00:04:46.320> well,<00:04:46.482> for<00:04:46.562> sure.

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What<00:04:47.853> do<00:04:47.917> you<00:04:47.950> make<00:04:48.159> of<00:04:48.256> Stripe?

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Look,<00:04:50.434> Stripe's<00:04:50.837> a<00:04:50.902> juggernaut.

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Uh,<00:04:51.789> it<00:04:51.886> is,<00:04:52.192> it<00:04:52.273> is<00:04:52.434> the,<00:04:52.999> um,<00:04:54.532> the,<00:04:54.709> the,<00:04:54.935> the<00:04:55.000> biggest<00:04:55.273> and<00:04:55.354> baddest<00:04:55.837> company<00:04:56.224> out<00:04:56.385> there<00:04:56.627> in<00:04:56.723> the<00:04:56.804> fintech<00:04:57.142> space.

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Uh,<00:04:58.238> I<00:04:58.480> think<00:04:58.641> at<00:04:58.721> this<00:04:58.898> point,<00:04:59.124> probably<00:04:59.446> the<00:04:59.527> third<00:04:59.930> most<00:05:00.268> valuable<00:05:00.493> private<00:05:00.816> company<00:05:01.170> behind<00:05:02.282> maybe<00:05:02.701> SpaceX<00:05:03.329> and<00:05:03.732> TikTok.

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Uh,<00:05:05.576> and,<00:05:06.222> um,<00:05:07.516> you<00:05:07.549> know,<00:05:07.678> I<00:05:07.694> think<00:05:07.921> the<00:05:08.082> big,<00:05:08.567> uh,<00:05:09.861> there<00:05:09.974> are<00:05:10.120> two<00:05:10.282> dynamics<00:05:10.929> with<00:05:11.042> Stripe<00:05:11.333> that<00:05:11.398> are<00:05:11.495> very<00:05:11.640> interesting.

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One<00:05:12.222> is<00:05:12.950> I<00:05:12.966> think<00:05:13.080> Stripe<00:05:13.508> is,<00:05:13.853> is<00:05:14.001> always<00:05:14.759> in<00:05:14.841> a<00:05:14.874> little<00:05:14.989> bit<00:05:15.088> of<00:05:15.121> a,<00:05:15.154> um,<00:05:17.057> I<00:05:17.571> don't<00:05:19.322> want<00:05:19.467> to<00:05:19.579> say<00:05:19.643> tug<00:05:19.804> of<00:05:19.965> war,<00:05:20.125> but<00:05:20.206> they<00:05:20.350> have<00:05:20.414> a<00:05:20.430> very<00:05:20.671> close<00:05:20.848> relationship<00:05:21.073> with<00:05:21.169> Shopify.

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Shopify<00:05:21.972> and<00:05:22.117> Stripe<00:05:22.470> are<00:05:22.535> very<00:05:22.759> closely<00:05:23.177> interlinked<00:05:23.643> because<00:05:23.964> Stripe<00:05:24.848> powers<00:05:25.185> a<00:05:25.249> lot<00:05:25.426> of<00:05:25.458> the<00:05:25.506> Shopify<00:05:25.972> payments<00:05:27.096> and<00:05:27.209> Shopify<00:05:27.658> relies<00:05:28.060> on<00:05:28.092> Stripe<00:05:28.462> for<00:05:28.558> a<00:05:28.574> lot<00:05:28.879> of<00:05:29.104> the<00:05:29.184> financial<00:05:29.522> services<00:05:29.987> backend<00:05:30.405> that<00:05:30.726> they<00:05:30.871> use.

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So<00:05:31.851> those<00:05:32.124> two<00:05:32.236> companies,<00:05:34.019> you<00:05:34.099> know,<00:05:34.196> I<00:05:34.324> think<00:05:34.565> have<00:05:34.806> a<00:05:35.127> really<00:05:36.428> robust<00:05:36.910> but<00:05:37.055> tricky<00:05:37.328> relationship.

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You<00:05:39.079> know,<00:05:39.320> in<00:05:39.480> some<00:05:39.705> ways<00:05:39.801> they're<00:05:39.882> on<00:05:39.962> a<00:05:40.026> collision<00:05:40.347> course,<00:05:40.685> in<00:05:40.717> some<00:05:40.990> ways<00:05:41.247> they're,<00:05:41.873> I<00:05:42.050> think<00:05:42.610> competitors,<00:05:43.060> but<00:05:43.061> not<00:05:43.200> really.

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So<00:05:43.721> I<00:05:43.800> think<00:05:44.020> that's,<00:05:44.720> that's<00:05:44.740> a<00:05:44.820> dynamic<00:05:45.120> that<00:05:45.280> I've<00:05:45.420> always<00:05:45.560> watched<00:05:45.980> very,<00:05:46.340> uh,<00:05:46.980> curiously<00:05:47.320> and<00:05:47.420> wondered,<00:05:47.860> you<00:05:47.861> know,<00:05:48.360> uh,<00:05:48.880> and<00:05:48.881> I<00:05:48.920> don't<00:05:49.080> think<00:05:49.180> they<00:05:49.360> don't<00:05:49.500> disclose<00:05:49.960> exactly,<00:05:50.620> you<00:05:50.640> know,<00:05:50.820> how<00:05:50.840> much<00:05:51.020> of<00:05:51.240> Stripe's<00:05:51.480> revenue<00:05:51.640> comes<00:05:51.860> from<00:05:52.100> Shopify<00:05:52.400> and<00:05:52.600> vice<00:05:52.800> versa.

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But,<00:05:53.340> um,<00:05:54.320> that's<00:05:54.660> one<00:05:54.820> thing<00:05:54.960> to<00:05:55.080> think<00:05:55.220> about<00:05:55.420> on<00:05:55.580> a<00:05:55.680> macro<00:05:55.940> level.

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The<00:05:56.360> other<00:05:56.540> is<00:05:56.880> that,<00:05:57.260> um,<00:05:59.460> Stripe<00:05:59.620> has<00:05:59.880> one<00:06:00.500> core<00:06:01.340> business,<00:06:01.860> which<00:06:01.880> is<00:06:02.040> payment<00:06:02.240> processing,<00:06:02.800> and<00:06:03.200> that's<00:06:03.540> been<00:06:03.840> their<00:06:04.040> bread<00:06:04.180> and<00:06:04.340> butter,<00:06:04.860> and<00:06:04.980> they<00:06:05.240> do<00:06:05.400> that,<00:06:05.700> you<00:06:05.840> know,<00:06:05.960> almost<00:06:06.100> better<00:06:06.260> than<00:06:06.380> anybody<00:06:06.640> else,<00:06:07.480> uh,<00:06:08.100> particularly<00:06:08.300> for<00:06:08.780> kind<00:06:09.080> of<00:06:09.160> if<00:06:09.300> you<00:06:09.320> want<00:06:09.380> to<00:06:09.480> get<00:06:09.560> something—<00:06:09.940> if<00:06:09.941> you<00:06:10.020> and<00:06:10.120> I<00:06:10.900> Clint,<00:06:11.400> today<00:06:11.600> we're<00:06:11.780> starting<00:06:12.020> a<00:06:12.840> t-shirt<00:06:13.120> shop.

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By<00:06:14.600> the<00:06:14.640> end<00:06:14.780> of<00:06:14.820> the<00:06:14.860> day,<00:06:14.960> we<00:06:15.020> can<00:06:15.120> be<00:06:15.240> up<00:06:15.320> running<00:06:15.480> on<00:06:15.700> Stripe<00:06:15.860> taking<00:06:16.080> payments.

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Yeah,<00:06:17.260> the<00:06:17.261> simplicity<00:06:17.720> is<00:06:17.980> incredible.

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It's<00:06:19.080> amazing.

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And<00:06:20.920> they're<00:06:21.840> moving,<00:06:22.400> I<00:06:22.440> think<00:06:22.580> the<00:06:22.720> knock<00:06:22.980> on<00:06:23.140> Stripe<00:06:23.320> has<00:06:23.480> always<00:06:23.640> been,<00:06:24.020> yeah,<00:06:24.021> but<00:06:24.180> if<00:06:24.260> you<00:06:24.400> get<00:06:24.560> to<00:06:24.700> a<00:06:24.800> certain<00:06:24.980> size,<00:06:25.680> then<00:06:26.060> if<00:06:26.440> you're<00:06:26.500> a<00:06:26.600> big<00:06:26.740> enterprise,<00:06:27.280> you<00:06:27.360> got<00:06:27.460> to<00:06:27.640> move<00:06:27.760> to<00:06:28.420> Chase<00:06:28.840> payment<00:06:29.160> tech<00:06:29.500> with<00:06:29.880> JP<00:06:30.100> Morgan<00:06:30.340> or<00:06:30.560> somebody<00:06:30.880> else<00:06:31.220> and<00:06:31.360> build<00:06:31.580> your<00:06:31.740> own<00:06:31.920> system<00:06:32.200> and<00:06:32.380> go<00:06:32.520> direct<00:06:32.800> to,<00:06:33.400> I<00:06:33.520> don't<00:06:33.700> know,<00:06:33.940> Tesis<00:06:34.020> or<00:06:34.240> First<00:06:34.480> Data<00:06:34.600> or<00:06:34.800> somebody.

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But<00:06:35.920> the<00:06:36.180> truth<00:06:36.380> is<00:06:36.620> they've<00:06:37.020> scaled<00:06:37.220> pretty<00:06:37.400> well<00:06:37.620> too.

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I<00:06:37.900> think<00:06:38.040> a<00:06:38.160> lot<00:06:38.260> of<00:06:38.380> larger<00:06:38.600> companies<00:06:38.920> use<00:06:39.180> Stripe<00:06:39.300> now.

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So<00:06:39.660> I<00:06:39.780> think<00:06:40.512> that<00:06:40.753> knock<00:06:41.058> on<00:06:41.138> them<00:06:41.314> has<00:06:41.539> been<00:06:41.715> largely<00:06:42.678> mitigated.

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The<00:06:44.988> big<00:06:45.085> challenge<00:06:45.502> they've<00:06:45.710> had<00:06:45.887> is<00:06:46.047> to<00:06:46.288> launch<00:06:46.673> successfully<00:06:47.555> a<00:06:47.571> second<00:06:47.956> or<00:06:48.133> third<00:06:48.374> product<00:06:49.096> that<00:06:49.192> scales.

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So<00:06:50.395> I<00:06:50.443> think<00:06:50.604> that's<00:06:50.860> the<00:06:51.021> big<00:06:51.181> thing<00:06:51.502> they're<00:06:51.598> focused<00:06:52.128> on<00:06:52.160> the<00:06:52.224> last<00:06:52.465> few<00:06:52.609> years<00:06:52.866> is<00:06:53.508> trying<00:06:53.844> to<00:06:53.909> do<00:06:54.005> something<00:06:54.550> else<00:06:54.952> besides<00:06:55.433> processing<00:06:56.620> to<00:06:56.781> kind<00:06:56.973> of<00:06:57.214> diversify<00:06:57.823> the<00:06:57.920> business<00:06:58.545> and<00:06:59.283> capture<00:06:59.749> more<00:06:59.925> dollars<00:07:00.326> from<00:07:00.471> existing<00:07:00.808> customers.

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Because<00:07:01.481> at<00:07:01.546> a<00:07:01.610> certain<00:07:01.995> point,<00:07:02.332> you're<00:07:02.412> going<00:07:02.540> to<00:07:02.572> start—<00:07:03.294> the<00:07:03.391> growth<00:07:03.776> rate<00:07:03.936> of<00:07:04.080> processing<00:07:04.417> is<00:07:04.578> going<00:07:04.754> to<00:07:04.802> start<00:07:04.963> to<00:07:05.059> slow<00:07:05.300> down.

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And<00:07:06.570> so<00:07:06.830> I<00:07:06.870> think<00:07:06.990> you've<00:07:07.250> seen<00:07:07.350> Stripe<00:07:07.670> Connect,<00:07:08.230> you've<00:07:08.330> seen<00:07:08.430> card<00:07:08.670> issuing,<00:07:09.190> you've<00:07:09.590> seen<00:07:09.591> attempts<00:07:10.250> at<00:07:10.470> trade<00:07:10.710> credit,<00:07:11.090> recurring<00:07:11.510> billing,<00:07:12.400> a<00:07:12.750> lot<00:07:12.850> of<00:07:12.990> other<00:07:13.170> business<00:07:13.450> lines<00:07:13.750> that<00:07:13.870> they're<00:07:13.990> trying<00:07:14.110> to<00:07:14.210> get<00:07:14.350> into.

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And<00:07:15.570> that's<00:07:15.810> my<00:07:16.010> sense<00:07:16.230> for<00:07:16.410> why<00:07:17.050> they're<00:07:17.550> in<00:07:17.690> no<00:07:17.850> rush<00:07:18.050> to<00:07:18.170> go<00:07:18.310> public,<00:07:18.710> is<00:07:18.970> that<00:07:19.130> they<00:07:19.250> want<00:07:19.750> one<00:07:20.290> or<00:07:20.470> two<00:07:20.550> of<00:07:20.690> those<00:07:20.691> other<00:07:20.850> things<00:07:20.970> to<00:07:21.150> really<00:07:21.430> kind<00:07:21.890> of<00:07:21.891> get<00:07:22.190> a<00:07:22.750> good<00:07:22.850> amount<00:07:23.070> of<00:07:23.230> traction.

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Why<00:07:24.750> don't<00:07:24.870> they<00:07:25.030> just<00:07:25.210> buy<00:07:25.530> Shopify,<00:07:26.950> do<00:07:27.410> you<00:07:27.450> think?

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Well,<00:07:29.000> first<00:07:29.450> of<00:07:29.630> all,<00:07:29.650> I<00:07:29.710> don't<00:07:29.810> know<00:07:29.910> if<00:07:29.970> they<00:07:29.971> can<00:07:30.070> afford<00:07:30.350> it,<00:07:30.570> frankly,<00:07:30.870> because<00:07:31.010> I<00:07:31.310> haven't<00:07:31.430> looked<00:07:31.550> at<00:07:31.670> the<00:07:31.690> market<00:07:31.950> cap<00:07:32.230> today.

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But<00:07:32.750> that's<00:07:32.830> a<00:07:32.910> good<00:07:33.070> point.

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Shopify's<00:07:33.810> an<00:07:33.910> enormous<00:07:34.230> company<00:07:34.570> too.

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I<00:07:35.230> mean,<00:07:35.710> good<00:07:35.890> point.

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So<00:07:35.930> it<00:07:35.950> would<00:07:35.970> have<00:07:35.990> to<00:07:36.010> be<00:07:36.030> some<00:07:36.050> kind<00:07:36.070> of<00:07:36.090> merger<00:07:36.110> of<00:07:37.826> equals<00:07:38.485> Canadians<00:07:38.968> and<00:07:39.113> Irish<00:07:39.371> people<00:07:39.934> all<00:07:40.030> in<00:07:40.095> a<00:07:40.175> room.

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It's<00:07:40.497> like<00:07:40.980> dogs<00:07:41.302> and<00:07:41.447> cats.

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Who<00:07:42.525> knows?

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But<00:07:48.141> I<00:07:48.303> do<00:07:48.481> think<00:07:50.890> there<00:07:51.052> was<00:07:51.375> one<00:07:53.089> business<00:07:53.396> that<00:07:53.510> Stripe<00:07:53.962> bought<00:07:54.140> this<00:07:54.270> year.

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I'm<00:07:54.528> blanking<00:07:54.834> on<00:07:54.866> the<00:07:54.947> name.

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They<00:07:55.350> bought<00:07:55.495> a<00:07:55.512> stablecoin<00:07:56.060> company,<00:07:56.721> very<00:07:57.447> publicized<00:07:57.931> deal<00:07:58.076> for<00:07:58.157> like<00:07:58.254> a<00:07:58.318> billion<00:07:58.512> dollars.

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But<00:07:59.625> they<00:07:59.867> bought<00:07:59.963> another<00:08:00.334> company<00:08:00.738> that<00:08:00.915> was<00:08:01.625> kind<00:08:01.738> of<00:08:01.818> a<00:08:01.899> mini<00:08:02.270> Shopify<00:08:02.931> for<00:08:03.157> creators<00:08:03.657> and<00:08:03.738> influencers.

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So<00:08:05.890> then<00:08:06.070> they<00:08:06.250> bought<00:08:06.610> some<00:08:07.010> things<00:08:07.270> that<00:08:07.450> resemble<00:08:08.010> kind<00:08:08.630> of<00:08:09.070> vertical-specific<00:08:09.930> versions<00:08:10.290> of<00:08:10.430> Shopify,<00:08:11.360> and<00:08:11.810> it<00:08:12.030> does<00:08:12.190> make<00:08:12.370> a<00:08:12.530> lot<00:08:12.610> of<00:08:12.670> natural<00:08:12.950> sense<00:08:13.450> for<00:08:13.750> them<00:08:13.910> to<00:08:14.050> do<00:08:14.110> that.

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At<00:08:14.490> the<00:08:14.510> same<00:08:14.610> time,<00:08:14.830> Shopify<00:08:15.130> has<00:08:15.390> built<00:08:15.630> payment<00:08:15.970> products,<00:08:16.390> right?

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Yeah,<00:08:16.750> they<00:08:16.930> have<00:08:16.931> their<00:08:17.030> own<00:08:17.290> Shop<00:08:17.550> Pay<00:08:17.830> and<00:08:18.050> that<00:08:18.290> type<00:08:18.470> of<00:08:18.770> stuff.

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Of<00:08:18.911> course,<00:08:18.950> yeah.

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But<00:08:20.990> I<00:08:21.270> can't<00:08:21.570> think<00:08:21.750> if<00:08:21.890> Shopify<00:08:22.210> has<00:08:22.550> bought<00:08:22.770> a<00:08:23.010> true<00:08:23.330> kind<00:08:24.250> of<00:08:24.251> fintech<00:08:24.550> or<00:08:24.830> payments<00:08:25.070> company.

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They've<00:08:25.750> done<00:08:25.890> a<00:08:26.010> handful<00:08:26.270> of<00:08:26.510> acquisitions,<00:08:29.090> but<00:08:29.490> it's<00:08:30.290> a<00:08:30.450> really<00:08:30.570> interesting—<00:08:30.930> I<00:08:31.090> mean,<00:08:31.091> I<00:08:31.210> have<00:08:31.410> to<00:08:31.510> imagine<00:08:31.810> every<00:08:32.130> couple<00:08:32.630> of<00:08:32.790> years<00:08:32.910> when<00:08:33.050> those<00:08:33.210> two<00:08:33.370> companies<00:08:33.610> sit<00:08:33.870> down<00:08:34.150> and<00:08:34.270> negotiate<00:08:34.670> the<00:08:34.690> rev<00:08:34.710> share<00:08:34.730> or<00:08:34.750> whatever,<00:08:36.366> You<00:08:36.398> know,<00:08:36.478> it's<00:08:36.623> got<00:08:36.735> to<00:08:36.847> be<00:08:36.944> like,<00:08:37.810> you<00:08:37.987> know,<00:08:38.388> Reagan<00:08:38.645> and<00:08:38.773> Gorbachev,<00:08:39.447> you<00:08:39.527> know,<00:08:39.656> getting<00:08:39.800> together<00:08:40.073> at<00:08:40.233> a<00:08:40.314> summit,<00:08:40.939> you<00:08:41.341> know,<00:08:41.774> 10<00:08:42.063> guys<00:08:42.239> in<00:08:42.335> suits.

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I<00:08:42.705> don't<00:08:42.897> know<00:08:43.106> how<00:08:43.202> they<00:08:43.362> do<00:08:43.523> it<00:08:43.603> right<00:08:43.924> and<00:08:44.101> figure<00:08:44.325> it<00:08:44.406> all<00:08:44.550> out,<00:08:44.951> but<00:08:45.753> it's<00:08:46.315> got<00:08:46.443> to<00:08:46.476> be<00:08:46.556> very<00:08:46.668> tricky.

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Speaking<00:08:48.337> of<00:08:48.417> politics,<00:08:49.444> you<00:08:49.524> got<00:08:49.765> crypto<00:08:50.664> kind<00:08:50.840> of<00:08:50.969> back<00:08:52.349> given<00:08:52.670> like<00:08:52.910> this<00:08:53.071> new<00:08:53.231> administration.

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It<00:08:54.098> seems<00:08:54.339> like<00:08:54.451> it's<00:08:54.660> friendlier<00:08:55.478> to<00:08:56.986> cryptocurrencies<00:08:57.965> and<00:08:58.126> things<00:08:58.366> like<00:08:58.591> that.

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Seems<00:08:59.169> like<00:09:00.051> the<00:09:00.228> SEC<00:09:00.613> chair<00:09:00.854> will<00:09:01.014> be<00:09:01.239> maybe<00:09:01.495> a<00:09:01.512> little<00:09:01.656> bit<00:09:01.768> more<00:09:01.961> friendly,<00:09:02.298> assuming<00:09:02.699> that<00:09:02.859> gets<00:09:03.036> confirmed.

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All<00:09:03.838> that<00:09:03.966> type<00:09:04.079> of<00:09:04.143> stuff.

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This<00:09:04.544> isn't<00:09:04.768> really<00:09:04.945> a<00:09:05.009> question<00:09:05.249> about<00:09:05.410> politics,<00:09:05.811> but<00:09:05.907> what<00:09:06.003> do<00:09:06.131> you<00:09:06.228> think<00:09:06.404> about<00:09:07.414> cryptocurrency<00:09:08.874> and<00:09:09.018> where<00:09:09.258> things<00:09:09.515> are<00:09:09.659> headed<00:09:10.060> there?

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How<00:09:10.894> are<00:09:11.022> you<00:09:11.119> feeling<00:09:11.536> about<00:09:12.001> Bitcoin?

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I<00:09:12.706> mean,<00:09:12.867> it<00:09:12.947> just<00:09:13.107> went<00:09:13.268> over<00:09:13.428> $100,000<00:09:14.566> for<00:09:14.647> the<00:09:14.727> first<00:09:15.048> time<00:09:15.288> recently.

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I<00:09:16.010> don't,<00:09:16.250> I<00:09:16.266> don't<00:09:16.491> think<00:09:16.715> it<00:09:16.812> is<00:09:17.277> currently<00:09:17.678> right<00:09:17.854> now,<00:09:18.239> but<00:09:18.736> what<00:09:18.848> do<00:09:18.880> you,<00:09:18.976> what<00:09:19.089> do<00:09:19.153> you,<00:09:19.297> I<00:09:19.313> mean,<00:09:19.698> and<00:09:19.842> how<00:09:19.939> do<00:09:20.003> you<00:09:20.099> think<00:09:20.275> about<00:09:20.484> that?

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Because<00:09:21.045> fintech<00:09:21.478> is<00:09:21.622> so<00:09:22.585> separate<00:09:22.970> from<00:09:23.146> that<00:09:23.242> in<00:09:23.370> a<00:09:23.386> lot<00:09:23.547> of<00:09:23.611> ways.

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Yeah.

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I<00:09:25.231> mean,<00:09:25.455> I<00:09:25.551> kind<00:09:25.728> of<00:09:25.808> agree<00:09:26.097> with<00:09:26.257> that<00:09:26.417> last<00:09:26.738> point,<00:09:27.059> which<00:09:27.251> is<00:09:27.460> that<00:09:28.197> crypto<00:09:28.614> is<00:09:28.759> kind<00:09:28.919> of<00:09:29.015> its<00:09:29.224> own<00:09:30.800> category<00:09:31.485> and<00:09:31.648> beast.

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I<00:09:32.056> mean,<00:09:32.219> there<00:09:32.301> are<00:09:32.382> companies<00:09:32.953> that<00:09:33.198> are<00:09:33.361> very<00:09:33.524> specialized<00:09:33.981> in<00:09:34.030> it.

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There<00:09:34.226> are<00:09:34.340> traders<00:09:34.748> that<00:09:34.830> do<00:09:34.993> crypto.

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And<00:09:38.563> I've<00:09:38.742> never<00:09:39.066> been<00:09:39.293> kind<00:09:39.942> of<00:09:40.185> a<00:09:40.201> hyper<00:09:40.672> crypto<00:09:41.256> person.

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I<00:09:43.422> don't<00:09:43.731> own<00:09:43.893> Bitcoin.

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I'm<00:09:44.478> not<00:09:44.640> like—<00:09:45.111> I<00:09:45.355> have<00:09:45.614> nothing<00:09:45.858> against<00:09:46.248> it.

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It's<00:09:47.076> just<00:09:47.336> there's<00:09:47.482> enough<00:09:47.726> wood<00:09:47.823> to<00:09:47.969> chop<00:09:48.375> with<00:09:48.521> core<00:09:48.765> fintech<00:09:49.106> businesses<00:09:49.658> that<00:09:50.097> you<00:09:50.226> can't<00:09:50.470> be<00:09:50.551> an<00:09:50.632> expert<00:09:50.892> in<00:09:50.974> everything.

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So,<00:09:52.264> I<00:09:52.345> think<00:09:52.508> at<00:09:52.573> a<00:09:52.590> certain<00:09:52.916> point,<00:09:53.062> you<00:09:53.160> can't<00:09:53.405> just<00:09:53.714> dabble<00:09:54.937> here<00:09:55.018> and<00:09:55.116> there.

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And,<00:09:56.414> um,<00:09:57.442> but<00:09:57.522> it's<00:09:57.667> certainly<00:09:57.923> having<00:09:58.116> a<00:09:58.180> moment.

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But,<00:09:58.807> you<00:09:58.839> know,<00:09:59.144> crypto<00:09:59.369> is<00:09:59.465> one<00:09:59.625> of<00:09:59.690> those,<00:10:00.493> uh,<00:10:00.910> categories<00:10:01.536> that's<00:10:01.713> had<00:10:02.580> moments,<00:10:02.917> then<00:10:03.013> it's<00:10:03.158> had<00:10:03.383> kind<00:10:03.624> of<00:10:03.864> troughs,<00:10:04.298> and<00:10:04.378> it's<00:10:04.507> come<00:10:04.683> back<00:10:04.924> inside.

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So<00:10:05.807> the<00:10:05.888> volatility<00:10:06.369> is<00:10:06.690> pretty<00:10:06.867> intense.

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I<00:10:07.734> think<00:10:07.895> it's<00:10:08.039> very<00:10:08.216> much<00:10:08.521> perception-driven,<00:10:10.528> obviously,<00:10:11.090> rather<00:10:11.347> than<00:10:11.845> fundamentals,<00:10:12.423> because<00:10:12.551> the<00:10:12.631> fundamentals,<00:10:13.177> you<00:10:13.209> know,<00:10:13.611> it's<00:10:13.996> not<00:10:14.141> like<00:10:14.301> there's<00:10:15.104> a<00:10:15.120> Fort<00:10:15.377> Knox<00:10:15.682> with<00:10:15.794> a<00:10:15.827> bunch<00:10:16.003> of<00:10:16.164> gold<00:10:16.405> bars<00:10:16.726> there<00:10:16.967> backing<00:10:17.272> up<00:10:17.529> Bitcoin.

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Yeah.

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Um,<00:10:19.520> so<00:10:20.001> it's,<00:10:20.322> uh,<00:10:21.238> it's<00:10:21.382> very<00:10:21.767> kind<00:10:21.944> of<00:10:22.104> mood<00:10:22.409> perception<00:10:22.907> driven.

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And<00:10:23.549> I<00:10:23.629> think<00:10:23.805> you're<00:10:24.030> right<00:10:24.271> in<00:10:24.351> the<00:10:24.431> sense<00:10:24.752> that<00:10:24.833> because<00:10:25.234> the<00:10:25.314> new<00:10:25.459> administration,<00:10:26.181> in<00:10:26.277> a<00:10:26.293> sense<00:10:26.678> that,<00:10:27.304> you<00:10:27.384> know,<00:10:27.497> somehow<00:10:27.882> like<00:10:28.187> Elon<00:10:28.444> Musk<00:10:28.765> is<00:10:28.909> now,<00:10:29.551> uh,<00:10:30.530> an<00:10:30.610> advisor<00:10:31.316> and<00:10:31.413> stuff,<00:10:31.750> and<00:10:31.830> you<00:10:31.910> have<00:10:32.055> all<00:10:32.215> this<00:10:32.857> Dogecoin<00:10:33.563> and<00:10:33.644> whatever,<00:10:33.981> that<00:10:34.141> there's<00:10:34.446> kind<00:10:34.558> of<00:10:34.623> this<00:10:35.265> resurgence<00:10:36.067> of<00:10:36.227> interest<00:10:36.709> and<00:10:36.805> friendliness<00:10:37.351> to<00:10:37.672> crypto.

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Um,<00:10:39.758> when<00:10:39.903> you<00:10:39.999> mentioned<00:10:40.480> the<00:10:40.561> administration,<00:10:41.748> uh,<00:10:42.246> however,<00:10:42.968> the<00:10:43.129> bigger<00:10:43.353> impact<00:10:43.835> I<00:10:43.867> think<00:10:44.557> will<00:10:44.733> be,<00:10:45.841> uh,<00:10:46.098> potentially<00:10:46.643> an<00:10:46.740> M&A.

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Because<00:10:47.862> when<00:10:48.007> you<00:10:48.039> mentioned<00:10:48.504> the<00:10:48.664> kind<00:10:48.888> of<00:10:49.161> DOJ<00:10:50.011> and<00:10:50.331> the<00:10:50.379> transition<00:10:51.309> and<00:10:51.453> antitrust<00:10:52.191> and<00:10:52.271> Lina<00:10:52.495> Khan<00:10:52.736> and<00:10:52.832> that<00:10:52.992> regime,<00:10:53.938> I<00:10:54.018> think<00:10:54.194> you're<00:10:54.275> going<00:10:54.387> to<00:10:54.435> see<00:10:54.659> a<00:10:54.675> friendlier<00:10:55.140> M&A<00:10:55.381> environment.

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And<00:10:56.038> that<00:10:56.278> to<00:10:56.423> me<00:10:56.583> will<00:10:56.743> be<00:10:56.839> the<00:10:57.000> bigger<00:10:57.224> impact<00:10:58.603> for<00:10:58.795> fintech<00:10:59.324> and<00:10:59.484> frankly<00:10:59.677> for<00:10:59.885> venture<00:11:00.591> at<00:11:01.552> large.

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And<00:11:03.091> how<00:11:03.252> do<00:11:03.316> you<00:11:03.412> think<00:11:03.652> that,<00:11:04.133> I<00:11:04.149> mean,<00:11:04.358> I<00:11:04.598> assume<00:11:05.079> some<00:11:05.223> of<00:11:05.255> the<00:11:05.336> companies<00:11:05.720> that<00:11:05.816> you're<00:11:05.977> invested<00:11:06.442> in<00:11:06.554> are<00:11:06.762> thinking<00:11:07.099> about<00:11:07.339> that<00:11:07.740> and<00:11:07.900> think<00:11:08.141> either<00:11:08.622> on<00:11:09.039> being<00:11:09.327> acquired<00:11:09.968> or<00:11:10.449> acquiring.

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How<00:11:12.068> do<00:11:12.213> you<00:11:12.309> think<00:11:12.709> like<00:11:13.110> this<00:11:13.415> year<00:11:13.575> is<00:11:13.671> going<00:11:13.783> to<00:11:13.896> play<00:11:14.152> out?

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Has<00:11:15.034> the<00:11:15.114> mood<00:11:15.499> changed<00:11:16.236> kind<00:11:16.380> of<00:11:16.477> in<00:11:16.557> your<00:11:16.861> world<00:11:17.182> with<00:11:17.278> 2025<00:11:17.919> versus<00:11:18.240> 2024?

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Uh,<00:11:20.644> for<00:11:20.804> sure.

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And<00:11:21.285> I<00:11:21.365> think<00:11:21.541> it's<00:11:21.686> driven<00:11:21.990> by<00:11:22.230> a<00:11:22.246> couple<00:11:22.487> of<00:11:22.567> things.

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One<00:11:23.112> is,<00:11:23.592> um,<00:11:25.211> just<00:11:25.628> certainty<00:11:26.172> around<00:11:26.349> the<00:11:26.413> election<00:11:26.813> one<00:11:26.958> way<00:11:27.038> or<00:11:27.118> another,<00:11:27.775> you<00:11:28.160> know,<00:11:28.400> that<00:11:28.496> it<00:11:28.544> was<00:11:28.656> going<00:11:28.817> to<00:11:29.217> be<00:11:29.361> decided<00:11:29.874> and,<00:11:30.179> and,<00:11:30.563> and,<00:11:30.980> and<00:11:31.044> over<00:11:31.284> with.

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And<00:11:31.685> the<00:11:31.765> second<00:11:32.166> is<00:11:32.406> that<00:11:32.727> we<00:11:32.823> were<00:11:32.855> going<00:11:32.999> to<00:11:33.143> get<00:11:33.880> some<00:11:34.329> interest<00:11:34.586> rate<00:11:34.746> cuts<00:11:34.922> from<00:11:35.130> the<00:11:35.210> Fed,<00:11:36.092> uh,<00:11:36.653> and<00:11:36.813> both<00:11:37.053> things<00:11:37.214> have<00:11:37.326> happened.

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And<00:11:38.496> so<00:11:38.656> I<00:11:38.688> think<00:11:38.976> once<00:11:39.217> that,<00:11:39.697> uh,<00:11:39.794> took<00:11:40.034> place,<00:11:40.435> you<00:11:40.531> saw<00:11:40.739> a<00:11:40.755> lot<00:11:41.076> of<00:11:41.140> these<00:11:41.380> companies<00:11:41.797> that<00:11:41.893> maybe<00:11:42.181> were<00:11:42.261> on<00:11:42.342> the<00:11:42.374> sidelines<00:11:42.934> or<00:11:43.079> waiting,<00:11:44.184> um,<00:11:44.922> that<00:11:45.082> are<00:11:45.243> now<00:11:45.645> going<00:11:45.983> to<00:11:46.111> file.

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And<00:11:46.770> I<00:11:46.851> think<00:11:47.060> Klarna<00:11:47.253> is<00:11:47.397> going<00:11:47.510> to<00:11:47.558> be<00:11:47.639> first,<00:11:48.619> and<00:11:48.700> they've<00:11:48.860> announced<00:11:49.182> that,<00:11:49.487> you<00:11:49.519> know,<00:11:49.584> they've<00:11:49.680> already<00:11:49.905> filed<00:11:50.307> and<00:11:50.613> should<00:11:50.854> list<00:11:51.095> here<00:11:51.207> sometime<00:11:51.529> in<00:11:51.577> the<00:11:51.609> next,<00:11:52.140> you<00:11:52.236> know,<00:11:52.317> I'm<00:11:52.381> guessing<00:11:53.024> a<00:11:53.040> month<00:11:53.281> or<00:11:53.330> two.

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I<00:11:54.978> think<00:11:55.221> Chime<00:11:55.528> will<00:11:55.625> be<00:11:55.770> right<00:11:55.932> after<00:11:56.174> them.

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I<00:11:56.901> expect<00:11:57.225> Chime<00:11:57.467> to<00:11:57.564> probably<00:11:57.871> list<00:11:58.130> before<00:11:59.083> we<00:11:59.164> get<00:11:59.261> to<00:11:59.423> kind<00:11:59.585> of<00:11:59.665> June<00:11:59.746> and<00:11:59.972> July.

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So<00:12:00.980> maybe<00:12:01.304> sometime<00:12:01.693> this<00:12:01.774> spring<00:12:02.260> or<00:12:02.487> late<00:12:02.601> spring.

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And<00:12:03.962> then<00:12:04.432> on<00:12:04.529> the<00:12:04.610> M&A<00:12:04.870> side,<00:12:05.161> you<00:12:05.259> saw<00:12:05.518> a<00:12:05.583> couple<00:12:05.826> of<00:12:05.891> deals<00:12:06.377> happen<00:12:06.782> right<00:12:06.960> before<00:12:08.095> the<00:12:08.241> holidays.

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Bridget<00:12:11.252> was<00:12:11.416> acquired,<00:12:12.821> Moneyline<00:12:13.442> was<00:12:13.606> acquired.

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And<00:12:15.564> so,<00:12:16.350> you<00:12:16.398> know,<00:12:16.510> I<00:12:16.590> think<00:12:16.831> that<00:12:17.232> the<00:12:17.328> M&A<00:12:17.649> side<00:12:17.889> is<00:12:18.050> picking<00:12:18.354> up<00:12:18.531> for<00:12:18.691> sure<00:12:19.156> as<00:12:19.316> well.

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And<00:12:20.359> you're<00:12:20.439> going<00:12:20.519> to<00:12:20.551> see<00:12:20.712> more<00:12:20.936> of<00:12:21.000> those<00:12:21.128> deals<00:12:21.417> because<00:12:21.658> the<00:12:21.738> only<00:12:21.962> real<00:12:22.139> M&A<00:12:22.219> that's<00:12:22.604> happened<00:12:22.940> the<00:12:23.037> last<00:12:23.566> couple<00:12:23.758> of<00:12:23.887> years<00:12:24.223> has<00:12:24.448> been<00:12:24.704> private<00:12:25.009> equity.

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You<00:12:26.067> know,<00:12:26.148> PE<00:12:26.388> funds<00:12:26.709> basically<00:12:28.152> breaking<00:12:28.537> out<00:12:28.633> kind<00:12:28.777> of<00:12:28.810> the<00:12:28.874> shopping<00:12:29.275> cart,<00:12:29.579> looking<00:12:29.740> at<00:12:29.916> all<00:12:30.076> the<00:12:30.221> public<00:12:30.638> software<00:12:31.023> stocks,<00:12:32.097> seeing<00:12:32.402> which<00:12:32.642> ones<00:12:32.883> look<00:12:33.043> like<00:12:33.268> they<00:12:33.364> were<00:12:33.444> the<00:12:33.524> best<00:12:33.765> values.

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And,<00:12:34.566> you<00:12:34.647> know,<00:12:34.807> one<00:12:35.031> by<00:12:35.272> one,<00:12:35.673> you<00:12:35.705> know,<00:12:35.865> just<00:12:36.282> taking<00:12:36.555> them<00:12:36.715> public.

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Coupa<00:12:38.399> and<00:12:38.511> Sumologic<00:12:39.393> and<00:12:39.521> Avalara<00:12:40.243> and<00:12:40.564> you<00:12:40.596> name<00:12:40.901> it.

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They've<00:12:42.557> all<00:12:42.726> been<00:12:42.827> kind<00:12:42.995> of<00:12:43.029> taken<00:12:43.400> out.

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Yeah,<00:12:45.330> that—<00:12:45.588> yeah,<00:12:45.782> the<00:12:45.927> PE<00:12:46.395> game<00:12:46.653> has<00:12:46.815> been<00:12:47.057> wild.

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We<00:12:47.525> actually—<00:12:48.332> I<00:12:48.412> have<00:12:48.525> an<00:12:48.590> event<00:12:48.913> next<00:12:49.155> week<00:12:49.332> and<00:12:49.461> we<00:12:49.542> have<00:12:49.703> Silver<00:12:50.107> Lake<00:12:50.349> CEO<00:12:51.236> Egon<00:12:51.962> Durban<00:12:52.398> speaking.

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Oh,<00:12:52.866> wow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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To<00:12:54.238> get<00:12:54.383> a<00:12:54.399> sense<00:12:54.690> for<00:12:55.525> that<00:12:55.766> whole<00:12:57.132> year<00:12:57.373> that<00:12:57.534> he<00:12:57.759> had<00:12:58.112> and,<00:12:58.482> you<00:12:58.514> know,<00:12:58.739> everything<00:12:59.044> that<00:12:59.141> they're<00:12:59.366> doing,<00:12:59.607> it's<00:12:59.767> wild.

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It's<00:13:00.506> wild.

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They've<00:13:01.390> been,<00:13:01.631> you<00:13:01.712> know,<00:13:01.856> they've<00:13:02.033> been<00:13:02.290> the<00:13:02.515> acquirers.

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And<00:13:03.383> I<00:13:03.415> think<00:13:03.704> it's<00:13:03.881> been<00:13:04.290> a<00:13:04.702> big<00:13:04.866> opportunity<00:13:05.361> for<00:13:05.509> them<00:13:05.690> because<00:13:07.890> they<00:13:08.213> essentially<00:13:08.779> are<00:13:08.876> the<00:13:09.021> only<00:13:09.199> show<00:13:09.425> in<00:13:09.506> town<00:13:10.072> because<00:13:11.704> the<00:13:11.785> strategics<00:13:12.415> aren't<00:13:12.593> doing<00:13:12.836> it<00:13:12.933> because<00:13:13.159> they're<00:13:13.240> scared<00:13:13.579> of<00:13:13.708> all<00:13:13.805> the<00:13:13.886> scrutiny.

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The<00:13:15.300> handful<00:13:15.493> of<00:13:15.525> strategic<00:13:15.976> things<00:13:16.217> you<00:13:16.297> saw<00:13:16.458> rumored,<00:13:17.005> like<00:13:17.343> Google<00:13:17.648> was<00:13:17.809> maybe<00:13:17.986> going<00:13:18.099> to<00:13:18.147> buy<00:13:18.372> HubSpot,<00:13:18.871> Google<00:13:19.096> was<00:13:19.193> maybe<00:13:19.434> going<00:13:19.917> to<00:13:20.142> buy<00:13:21.348> the<00:13:21.992> Israeli<00:13:23.873> cybersecurity<00:13:24.485> company.

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I'm<00:13:24.887> blanking<00:13:25.144> on<00:13:25.208> the<00:13:25.240> name<00:13:25.546> now,<00:13:26.270> but<00:13:27.540> they<00:13:27.878> didn't<00:13:28.296> happen,<00:13:28.907> right?

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And<00:13:29.405> you<00:13:29.550> haven't<00:13:30.226> seen<00:13:30.853> the<00:13:30.949> Adobe<00:13:31.319> Figma<00:13:31.657> deal<00:13:31.898> got<00:13:32.059> blocked.

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Um,<00:13:34.600> so<00:13:34.729> you<00:13:34.825> haven't<00:13:35.002> really<00:13:35.147> seen<00:13:35.614> any<00:13:35.791> of<00:13:35.936> these,<00:13:36.580> uh,<00:13:36.757> Wiz—<00:13:37.159> Wiz<00:13:37.401> was<00:13:37.562> the,<00:13:37.980> the<00:13:38.190> company<00:13:38.608> that<00:13:38.834> Google<00:13:38.979> was<00:13:39.172> going<00:13:39.284> to<00:13:39.349> maybe<00:13:39.429> acquire.

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None<00:13:40.202> of<00:13:40.299> these<00:13:40.411> things<00:13:40.604> happen,<00:13:40.782> right?

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It's<00:13:41.136> just<00:13:41.345> like,<00:13:42.214> uh,<00:13:42.874> they're,<00:13:43.293> they're<00:13:43.438> hesitant<00:13:44.001> to<00:13:44.050> kind<00:13:44.227> of<00:13:44.308> go<00:13:44.422> down<00:13:44.648> that<00:13:44.810> road,<00:13:45.052> whereas<00:13:45.279> private<00:13:45.538> equity,<00:13:45.861> there's<00:13:46.023> not<00:13:46.184> really<00:13:46.362> the<00:13:46.492> regulatory<00:13:47.155> scrutiny<00:13:48.594> of<00:13:48.772> a<00:13:48.788> financial<00:13:49.258> buyer<00:13:49.646> coming<00:13:49.969> in<00:13:50.147> and<00:13:50.471> holding<00:13:50.794> an<00:13:50.875> asset.

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Um,<00:13:51.862> so<00:13:52.832> it's<00:13:53.058> just<00:13:53.172> a<00:13:53.236> much<00:13:53.350> safer<00:13:53.705> play.

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And<00:13:54.834> if<00:13:54.980> you're<00:13:55.141> a<00:13:55.157> venture<00:13:55.480> investor,<00:13:56.029> you<00:13:56.061> know,<00:13:56.109> on<00:13:56.190> the<00:13:56.351> board<00:13:56.513> of<00:13:56.593> one<00:13:56.642> of<00:13:56.690> these<00:13:56.852> companies,<00:13:57.416> yeah,<00:13:57.642> you're<00:13:57.917> like,<00:13:58.062> well,<00:13:58.385> we<00:13:58.449> got<00:13:58.530> to<00:13:58.578> get<00:13:58.788> exit<00:13:58.869> somewhere.

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Because<00:14:01.088> there's<00:14:01.250> been<00:14:01.411> such<00:14:02.365> a<00:14:03.028> clog<00:14:03.675> in<00:14:03.821> the<00:14:03.869> pipeline<00:14:05.195> for<00:14:05.292> liquidity.

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So<00:14:06.004> you're<00:14:06.505> going<00:14:06.748> to<00:14:06.780> take<00:14:06.893> those<00:14:07.055> opportunities<00:14:07.475> where<00:14:07.556> you<00:14:07.637> have<00:14:07.799> them.

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And<00:14:08.866> if<00:14:08.995> you're<00:14:09.092> Silver<00:14:09.416> Lake,<00:14:09.658> don't<00:14:09.820> you<00:14:09.950> think<00:14:10.127> like,<00:14:10.384> hey,<00:14:10.626> now<00:14:11.416> if<00:14:11.657> regulations<00:14:12.318> do<00:14:14.815> become<00:14:15.202> less<00:14:15.621> and<00:14:15.782> it's<00:14:16.088> a<00:14:16.104> little<00:14:16.265> bit<00:14:16.329> easier<00:14:16.668> to<00:14:16.732> do<00:14:16.893> M&A,<00:14:17.634> now<00:14:17.779> you<00:14:17.876> can<00:14:18.021> sell<00:14:18.214> some<00:14:18.440> of<00:14:18.521> those<00:14:18.666> assets?

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That<00:14:20.060> too.

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Yeah,<00:14:20.951> you're<00:14:21.032> right.

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I<00:14:21.292> mean,<00:14:22.313> my<00:14:22.491> thought<00:14:22.735> has<00:14:22.962> always<00:14:23.221> been<00:14:23.464> that<00:14:23.950> the<00:14:24.096> private<00:14:24.420> equity<00:14:24.680> folks,<00:14:25.085> once<00:14:25.328> they<00:14:25.409> buy<00:14:25.652> something<00:14:26.123> and<00:14:28.064> maybe<00:14:28.305> rejigger<00:14:28.706> some<00:14:28.850> of<00:14:29.027> it,<00:14:29.155> maybe<00:14:29.331> merge.

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A<00:14:29.764> lot<00:14:29.893> of<00:14:29.989> times<00:14:30.229> they'll<00:14:30.374> kind<00:14:30.550> of<00:14:30.630> do<00:14:30.855> a<00:14:30.951> roll-up<00:14:31.272> play<00:14:31.592> where<00:14:31.673> they'll<00:14:31.977> roll<00:14:32.154> up<00:14:32.234> 2<00:14:32.410> or<00:14:32.474> 3<00:14:32.635> or<00:14:32.779> 4<00:14:32.956> companies<00:14:33.340> together<00:14:33.693> and<00:14:33.838> create<00:14:34.110> a<00:14:34.142> larger<00:14:34.479> business<00:14:35.505> that<00:14:36.788> they<00:14:37.029> then<00:14:37.269> look<00:14:37.382> to<00:14:37.590> then<00:14:38.007> take<00:14:38.183> it<00:14:38.328> back<00:14:38.568> out<00:14:38.729> public<00:14:39.114> in<00:14:39.194> a<00:14:39.210> few<00:14:39.515> years<00:14:40.813> at<00:14:40.894> a<00:14:40.958> higher<00:14:41.086> multiple<00:14:41.599> and<00:14:41.679> a<00:14:41.696> bigger<00:14:41.936> valuation.

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But<00:14:43.444> yeah,<00:14:43.524> absolutely.

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They<00:14:44.245> can<00:14:44.342> also<00:14:44.967> now<00:14:45.304> potentially<00:14:45.849> look<00:14:46.009> to<00:14:46.090> some<00:14:46.282> of<00:14:46.362> these<00:14:46.731> larger<00:14:47.068> kind<00:14:48.206> of<00:14:48.351> Magnificent<00:14:48.768> Seven<00:14:49.072> type<00:14:49.393> names<00:14:49.858> who've<00:14:50.035> been<00:14:50.436> basically<00:14:50.836> on<00:14:50.917> the<00:14:50.997> sidelines<00:14:52.039> last<00:14:52.280> few<00:14:52.424> years.

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As<00:14:53.547> potential<00:14:53.949> acquirers,<00:14:54.592> along<00:14:54.929> with<00:14:55.073> the<00:14:55.154> more<00:14:55.330> B2B<00:14:56.632> software<00:14:57.097> companies<00:14:57.563> like<00:14:57.884> Oracle<00:14:58.141> or<00:14:58.238> Salesforce.

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What<00:15:00.165> do<00:15:00.214> you<00:15:00.374> look<00:15:00.551> for<00:15:00.936> in<00:15:01.113> the<00:15:01.193> early<00:15:01.450> stage<00:15:01.756> with<00:15:01.900> your,<00:15:01.997> with<00:15:02.221> your<00:15:02.623> early<00:15:03.683> stage<00:15:04.310> angel<00:15:05.113> and<00:15:05.354> seed<00:15:05.627> stage<00:15:06.012> fund?

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Tell<00:15:06.671> me<00:15:06.815> like<00:15:07.121> what<00:15:07.281> you're<00:15:07.442> focusing<00:15:08.004> on<00:15:08.165> there<00:15:08.663> and<00:15:09.385> where<00:15:09.691> you<00:15:09.803> invest<00:15:10.510> and,<00:15:10.895> you<00:15:10.927> know,<00:15:11.136> what<00:15:11.313> type<00:15:11.554> of<00:15:11.634> entrepreneurs<00:15:12.180> and<00:15:12.261> companies<00:15:12.598> you're<00:15:12.743> looking<00:15:13.064> for.

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Sure.

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I<00:15:14.285> mean,<00:15:14.445> look,<00:15:15.730> that<00:15:15.891> to<00:15:16.035> me<00:15:16.116> has<00:15:16.276> always<00:15:16.517> been<00:15:16.614> the<00:15:16.694> most<00:15:16.871> exciting<00:15:17.320> is<00:15:17.417> when<00:15:17.561> you<00:15:17.658> kind<00:15:17.883> of<00:15:17.979> partner<00:15:18.284> with<00:15:18.381> someone<00:15:18.798> at<00:15:19.007> a<00:15:19.103> really<00:15:19.425> early<00:15:19.601> stage<00:15:20.148> when<00:15:20.292> they're<00:15:20.388> still<00:15:20.629> kind<00:15:20.870> of<00:15:21.978> It's<00:15:22.155> a<00:15:22.171> team,<00:15:22.573> it's<00:15:22.717> an<00:15:22.797> idea,<00:15:23.279> maybe<00:15:23.520> there's<00:15:23.761> a<00:15:23.921> product<00:15:24.259> or<00:15:24.323> two<00:15:24.483> in<00:15:24.564> the<00:15:24.628> market<00:15:25.061> or<00:15:25.094> a<00:15:25.270> client<00:15:25.463> or<00:15:25.527> two<00:15:25.752> that's<00:15:25.929> in<00:15:26.009> beta,<00:15:27.036> but<00:15:27.149> it's<00:15:27.486> still<00:15:27.839> very<00:15:28.080> much<00:15:28.337> kind<00:15:28.578> of<00:15:29.365> clay<00:15:29.622> that's<00:15:29.847> being<00:15:30.007> molded.

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And<00:15:32.351> what<00:15:32.496> I've<00:15:32.753> looked<00:15:32.913> for<00:15:33.299> there<00:15:33.459> in<00:15:33.556> the<00:15:33.636> last<00:15:33.957> kind<00:15:34.118> of<00:15:34.182> couple<00:15:34.423> of<00:15:34.503> years<00:15:34.760> is<00:15:34.905> I've<00:15:35.322> done<00:15:36.510> B2B<00:15:36.847> payments<00:15:37.169> has<00:15:37.329> been<00:15:37.490> a<00:15:37.570> big<00:15:37.731> area<00:15:38.052> of<00:15:38.132> focus.

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That's<00:15:39.497> been<00:15:40.685> one<00:15:40.862> of<00:15:40.942> the<00:15:41.167> major<00:15:41.504> white<00:15:41.665> spaces<00:15:42.066> I<00:15:42.146> think<00:15:42.387> in<00:15:42.468> fintech<00:15:42.949> is<00:15:43.576> all<00:15:43.752> the<00:15:44.459> fintech<00:15:44.780> companies<00:15:45.133> you<00:15:45.213> and<00:15:45.342> I<00:15:45.358> have<00:15:45.518> heard<00:15:45.743> of,<00:15:46.642> the<00:15:46.803> big<00:15:47.028> ones<00:15:47.269> that<00:15:47.381> are<00:15:47.526> public<00:15:47.863> and<00:15:48.184> successful,<00:15:49.212> whether<00:15:49.452> it's<00:15:49.693> including<00:15:49.998> Stripe,<00:15:51.138> PayPal,<00:15:52.262> Venmo,<00:15:52.648> and<00:15:52.728> Braintree,<00:15:54.189> Affirm,<00:15:54.671> Klarna,<00:15:55.152> Chime,<00:15:56.421> Robinhood,<00:15:56.983> Coinbase,<00:15:58.026> these<00:15:58.203> things<00:15:58.363> are<00:15:58.428> all<00:15:58.524> consumer<00:15:58.925> businesses,<00:15:59.407> right?

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Mm-hmm.

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And<00:16:00.932> Robinhood<00:16:01.173> and<00:16:01.254> Coinbase<00:16:01.655> are<00:16:01.735> trading,<00:16:02.137> but<00:16:02.361> the<00:16:02.442> other<00:16:02.602> ones<00:16:02.779> are<00:16:02.843> all<00:16:03.822> consumer<00:16:04.449> payments<00:16:04.786> companies.

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They<00:16:05.797> help<00:16:06.054> consumers<00:16:06.937> pay<00:16:07.194> businesses<00:16:08.479> or<00:16:08.623> consumers<00:16:09.105> pay<00:16:09.217> each<00:16:09.426> other.

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They<00:16:10.967> really<00:16:11.369> don't<00:16:11.674> generally<00:16:12.075> help<00:16:12.332> businesses<00:16:12.814> pay<00:16:12.894> other<00:16:13.055> businesses.

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The<00:16:14.500> only<00:16:14.821> company<00:16:15.206> of<00:16:15.238> scale<00:16:15.624> that<00:16:15.800> does<00:16:16.105> that<00:16:16.426> really<00:16:16.828> is<00:16:16.988> Bill.com.

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Which<00:16:19.172> is<00:16:19.317> publicly<00:16:19.639> traded<00:16:20.187> and,<00:16:20.364> you<00:16:20.445> know,<00:16:20.606> worth<00:16:20.847> about<00:16:21.491> $10<00:16:21.652> billion<00:16:21.958> or<00:16:22.297> something.

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But<00:16:23.585> it<00:16:23.746> pales<00:16:24.068> in<00:16:24.100> comparison<00:16:24.793> to<00:16:25.018> the<00:16:25.533> valuations<00:16:26.161> of<00:16:26.258> these<00:16:27.353> other<00:16:27.514> companies<00:16:27.740> like<00:16:28.016> PayPal.

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And<00:16:29.625> yet<00:16:29.885> the<00:16:30.048> B2B<00:16:30.535> payments<00:16:30.942> market<00:16:31.283> is<00:16:31.429> much<00:16:31.673> bigger<00:16:31.998> than<00:16:32.144> consumer.

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It's<00:16:35.187> a<00:16:35.203> larger<00:16:35.735> market<00:16:36.073> in<00:16:36.154> terms<00:16:36.541> of<00:16:36.654> the<00:16:37.057> amount<00:16:37.282> of<00:16:37.427> dollars<00:16:37.992> that<00:16:38.088> are<00:16:38.169> being<00:16:38.395> transacted<00:16:39.201> when,<00:16:39.926> you<00:16:39.958> know,<00:16:40.732> airline<00:16:41.071> is<00:16:41.296> paying<00:16:41.474> the<00:16:41.635> airport<00:16:42.038> their<00:16:42.183> annual<00:16:42.457> fee<00:16:42.828> or,<00:16:43.005> you<00:16:43.037> know,<00:16:43.166> paying<00:16:43.489> Boeing<00:16:43.795> for<00:16:43.876> planes<00:16:44.245> or<00:16:44.479> you<00:16:44.580> name<00:16:44.831> it,<00:16:44.982> right?

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And<00:16:46.120> those<00:16:46.345> things<00:16:46.521> are<00:16:46.586> still<00:16:46.907> done<00:16:47.453> largely<00:16:47.854> using<00:16:48.898> PDFs<00:16:49.540> and<00:16:49.636> faxes<00:16:50.198> and<00:16:50.279> emails<00:16:50.921> and<00:16:51.242> trade<00:16:51.563> credit<00:16:52.045> and,<00:16:52.189> you<00:16:52.286> know,<00:16:52.446> piece<00:16:52.623> of<00:16:52.751> paper<00:16:53.089> and<00:16:53.185> 90-day<00:16:53.715> line<00:16:54.036> that<00:16:54.116> you<00:16:54.212> get<00:16:54.614> through<00:16:54.774> Bank<00:16:54.935> of<00:16:54.999> America<00:16:55.336> or<00:16:55.481> whatever.

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So<00:16:57.504> that<00:16:57.825> whole<00:16:58.002> space<00:16:58.548> is<00:16:58.708> being<00:16:59.029> disrupted<00:16:59.656> right<00:16:59.897> now.

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But<00:17:01.454> it's<00:17:01.679> been<00:17:01.823> challenging<00:17:02.385> because<00:17:03.911> with<00:17:04.087> B2B,<00:17:05.356> there's<00:17:05.548> so<00:17:05.757> many<00:17:05.934> unique<00:17:06.255> verticals<00:17:07.443> and<00:17:07.604> each<00:17:07.764> vertical<00:17:08.101> has<00:17:08.278> a<00:17:08.342> very<00:17:08.647> different<00:17:09.065> kind<00:17:09.225> of<00:17:09.306> characteristic<00:17:10.028> in<00:17:10.109> terms<00:17:10.430> of<00:17:10.992> clients<00:17:11.473> and<00:17:11.537> what<00:17:11.650> they<00:17:11.730> need<00:17:12.115> and<00:17:12.196> how<00:17:12.420> billing<00:17:12.677> is<00:17:12.822> done.

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So<00:17:13.640> you've<00:17:13.801> seen<00:17:14.122> most<00:17:14.363> of<00:17:14.427> the<00:17:14.459> successful<00:17:14.989> companies<00:17:15.422> are<00:17:15.551> coming<00:17:15.872> out<00:17:16.514> going<00:17:16.835> after<00:17:17.092> a<00:17:17.156> vertical<00:17:17.509> first,<00:17:18.617> and<00:17:18.681> the<00:17:18.777> verticals<00:17:19.098> tend<00:17:19.275> to<00:17:19.339> be<00:17:19.419> the<00:17:19.580> bigger,<00:17:19.917> meatier<00:17:20.382> verticals<00:17:20.928> like<00:17:21.089> construction,<00:17:21.811> healthcare,<00:17:23.095> uh,<00:17:23.272> real<00:17:23.497> estate,<00:17:23.834> things<00:17:24.058> like<00:17:24.299> that<00:17:24.476> where<00:17:24.620> you<00:17:24.652> have<00:17:24.877> big<00:17:25.038> dollars<00:17:25.423> moving<00:17:25.599> around.

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So,<00:17:26.707> you<00:17:26.739> know,<00:17:26.787> I<00:17:26.884> backed<00:17:27.060> a<00:17:27.125> company<00:17:27.349> called<00:17:27.526> Coast,<00:17:28.152> uh,<00:17:28.489> team<00:17:28.794> out<00:17:28.906> of<00:17:29.035> Bread<00:17:29.292> that<00:17:29.436> I'd<00:17:29.597> backed<00:17:29.757> before.

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Coast<00:17:30.977> is<00:17:31.057> doing<00:17:31.298> payments<00:17:31.700> for<00:17:31.844> the<00:17:31.924> trucking<00:17:32.326> and<00:17:32.422> fleet<00:17:32.663> area,<00:17:32.984> primarily<00:17:33.465> for,<00:17:34.252> uh,<00:17:34.428> more<00:17:34.589> like<00:17:34.814> kind<00:17:34.910> of<00:17:34.942> smaller<00:17:35.376> fleets,<00:17:35.873> uh,<00:17:36.178> not<00:17:36.291> the<00:17:36.419> 18-wheeler,<00:17:36.917> but<00:17:37.029> more<00:17:37.157> like<00:17:37.398> HVAC<00:17:37.799> and<00:17:37.880> plumbing.

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Company<00:17:39.585> called<00:17:39.729> CreditKey,<00:17:40.293> which<00:17:40.454> does<00:17:40.631> trade<00:17:40.953> credit<00:17:41.500> online<00:17:42.015> for<00:17:42.160> businesses,<00:17:42.707> anything<00:17:42.948> from<00:17:43.109> like<00:17:43.849> restaurant<00:17:44.252> supplies<00:17:44.767> to<00:17:44.896> dental<00:17:45.217> equipment,<00:17:46.848> you<00:17:46.944> name<00:17:47.202> it.

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So<00:17:47.427> I<00:17:47.508> think<00:17:47.653> that<00:17:47.830> a<00:17:47.975> lot<00:17:48.056> of<00:17:48.152> these<00:17:48.313> companies<00:17:48.861> that<00:17:49.199> are<00:17:49.376> starting<00:17:51.373> and<00:17:51.454> are<00:17:51.615> growing<00:17:51.921> quickly<00:17:52.500> going<00:17:52.806> after<00:17:53.064> B2B,<00:17:54.014> that's<00:17:54.352> really<00:17:54.594> the<00:17:54.674> one<00:17:54.852> area<00:17:55.141> that's<00:17:55.464> been<00:17:55.560> super<00:17:55.770> exciting.

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That's<00:17:56.941> really<00:17:57.185> interesting.

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What<00:17:58.324> does<00:17:58.486> a<00:17:58.568> typical<00:17:58.893> day<00:17:59.056> look<00:17:59.284> like<00:17:59.463> for<00:17:59.544> you?

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Good<00:18:01.719> question.

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It's,<00:18:03.972> you<00:18:04.118> know,<00:18:04.442> it's<00:18:04.832> almost<00:18:05.172> like<00:18:05.334> no<00:18:05.431> two<00:18:05.594> days<00:18:05.821> are<00:18:05.885> the<00:18:05.967> same,<00:18:06.226> so<00:18:06.307> it's<00:18:06.453> hard<00:18:06.615> to<00:18:06.712> answer<00:18:06.939> that.

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But<00:18:08.263> You<00:18:08.296> know,<00:18:08.346> I<00:18:08.446> spend<00:18:08.696> most<00:18:09.013> of<00:18:09.046> my<00:18:09.196> time,<00:18:11.320> you<00:18:11.433> know,<00:18:11.595> these<00:18:11.708> days<00:18:11.983> I<00:18:11.999> don't<00:18:12.161> meet<00:18:12.484> that<00:18:12.711> many<00:18:12.808> new<00:18:12.970> companies<00:18:13.520> every<00:18:13.698> day.

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I<00:18:14.669> try<00:18:14.831> to<00:18:14.912> be<00:18:15.009> more<00:18:15.235> selective.

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And<00:18:16.125> so<00:18:16.530> the<00:18:16.691> filter<00:18:17.080> for<00:18:17.970> when<00:18:18.131> I<00:18:18.293> kind<00:18:18.471> of<00:18:18.536> will<00:18:18.714> meet<00:18:18.940> a<00:18:18.957> new<00:18:19.118> company<00:18:19.523> is<00:18:19.668> fairly<00:18:19.911> high<00:18:20.073> at<00:18:20.170> this<00:18:20.300> point.

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And<00:18:21.700> there's<00:18:21.861> a<00:18:21.877> network<00:18:22.409> of<00:18:22.972> 10,<00:18:23.165> 20<00:18:23.858> other<00:18:24.035> kind<00:18:24.196> of<00:18:24.292> early<00:18:24.534> stage,<00:18:25.387> you<00:18:25.419> know,<00:18:25.500> seed,<00:18:25.870> pre-seed<00:18:26.917> fintech<00:18:27.271> investors<00:18:27.802> that<00:18:27.899> do<00:18:27.963> a<00:18:28.060> lot<00:18:28.237> of<00:18:28.301> deals<00:18:28.543> with.

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So<00:18:29.509> most<00:18:29.766> of<00:18:29.831> my<00:18:29.960> stuff,<00:18:30.238> you<00:18:30.320> know,<00:18:30.385> I<00:18:30.484> share<00:18:30.729> with<00:18:30.893> them<00:18:31.040> and<00:18:31.122> they<00:18:31.155> share<00:18:31.368> with<00:18:31.548> me<00:18:31.696> and<00:18:31.777> we<00:18:31.810> kind<00:18:32.040> of<00:18:32.121> do<00:18:32.203> it<00:18:32.351> back<00:18:32.531> and<00:18:32.695> forth.

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So<00:18:34.589> some<00:18:34.734> of<00:18:34.912> it<00:18:34.992> is<00:18:35.137> meeting<00:18:35.298> new—<00:18:35.524> I<00:18:35.556> met<00:18:35.765> a<00:18:35.781> great<00:18:36.087> new<00:18:36.168> founder<00:18:36.426> yesterday,<00:18:36.812> a<00:18:36.909> deal<00:18:37.150> that<00:18:37.295> I<00:18:37.811> think<00:18:37.923> I'm<00:18:38.020> probably<00:18:38.294> going<00:18:38.841> to<00:18:38.954> try<00:18:39.003> to<00:18:39.147> do<00:18:39.969> in<00:18:40.114> the<00:18:41.080> accounting<00:18:42.208> and<00:18:42.465> ERP<00:18:43.110> area<00:18:43.400> for<00:18:44.259> mid-sized<00:18:44.697> companies.

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So<00:18:47.307> a<00:18:47.324> lot<00:18:47.551> of<00:18:47.583> it<00:18:47.648> is<00:18:47.810> that.

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I<00:18:48.378> also<00:18:48.686> have<00:18:49.496> a<00:18:49.513> number<00:18:49.740> of<00:18:49.837> board<00:18:50.064> obligations<00:18:50.567> still<00:18:50.810> for<00:18:50.940> Greycroft<00:18:51.618> and<00:18:52.831> 50,<00:18:53.073> 60<00:18:53.396> portfolio<00:18:53.784> companies<00:18:54.269> that<00:18:54.350> I<00:18:54.382> manage<00:18:55.740> for<00:18:55.853> my<00:18:55.999> own<00:18:56.468> vehicle.

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So<00:18:57.098> there'll<00:18:58.068> be<00:18:58.650> typically<00:18:59.523> a<00:18:59.603> call<00:18:59.943> or<00:19:00.040> two<00:19:00.914> or<00:19:00.996> at<00:19:01.029> a<00:19:01.078> minimum<00:19:01.570> text<00:19:01.816> exchange,<00:19:02.799> emails<00:19:03.045> exchanged<00:19:03.455> with<00:19:03.537> founders<00:19:04.012> who<00:19:04.584> are<00:19:04.648> looking<00:19:04.891> for<00:19:04.988> an<00:19:05.053> intro<00:19:05.409> or<00:19:05.490> have<00:19:05.619> a<00:19:05.700> question<00:19:06.024> or<00:19:06.185> hiring<00:19:06.444> somebody,<00:19:06.849> or<00:19:07.172> sometimes<00:19:07.900> they'll<00:19:08.208> help<00:19:08.612> interview<00:19:09.097> candidates<00:19:09.518> for<00:19:09.712> some<00:19:10.084> of<00:19:10.149> my<00:19:10.311> companies.

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I<00:19:10.974> did<00:19:11.136> that<00:19:11.217> recently<00:19:11.557> for<00:19:12.495> CreditKey.

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We're<00:19:13.061> looking<00:19:13.320> for<00:19:13.483> a<00:19:13.565> chief<00:19:13.813> revenue<00:19:14.127> officer<00:19:14.804> type<00:19:14.969> candidate,<00:19:15.382> so<00:19:15.728> I<00:19:15.794> interviewed<00:19:16.059> some<00:19:16.207> folks.

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And<00:19:18.723> then<00:19:19.112> a<00:19:19.290> lot<00:19:19.922> of<00:19:20.084> it<00:19:20.181> is<00:19:20.408> also<00:19:20.505> just<00:19:20.748> meeting<00:19:20.991> with<00:19:21.137> other<00:19:21.315> investors<00:19:21.801> and<00:19:21.882> trying<00:19:22.271> to,<00:19:22.530> you<00:19:22.595> know,<00:19:22.692> trade<00:19:23.017> notes<00:19:23.260> and<00:19:23.422> deals<00:19:23.665> and<00:19:23.729> get<00:19:23.827> intelligence<00:19:24.475> on<00:19:24.556> what's<00:19:24.702> happening<00:19:25.107> out<00:19:25.139> in<00:19:25.188> the<00:19:25.269> market.

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Because,<00:19:27.136> you<00:19:27.169> know,<00:19:27.218> I<00:19:27.316> think<00:19:27.724> that<00:19:27.888> there's<00:19:28.051> no<00:19:28.133> substitute<00:19:28.689> for<00:19:28.787> kind<00:19:29.016> of<00:19:30.996> these<00:19:31.173> are<00:19:31.333> by<00:19:31.509> def—<00:19:31.814> this<00:19:31.974> is<00:19:32.054> not<00:19:32.215> like<00:19:32.535> investing<00:19:33.032> in<00:19:33.096> the<00:19:33.241> public<00:19:33.417> markets<00:19:34.363> where<00:19:34.459> it's<00:19:34.603> all<00:19:35.020> supposed<00:19:35.293> to<00:19:35.325> be<00:19:35.405> transparent<00:19:35.886> info.

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These<00:19:37.200> are<00:19:37.649> by<00:19:37.810> definition<00:19:38.307> kind<00:19:38.531> of<00:19:38.611> private<00:19:39.172> deals.

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We<00:19:40.551> are<00:19:41.112> essentially<00:19:41.529> trading<00:19:41.914> in<00:19:41.994> information<00:19:43.901> in<00:19:43.934> a<00:19:43.998> way.

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So<00:19:44.398> you<00:19:44.479> want<00:19:44.687> to<00:19:44.719> get<00:19:44.960> a<00:19:45.200> backchannel<00:19:45.681> check<00:19:45.986> on<00:19:46.082> somebody<00:19:46.483> or<00:19:46.563> a<00:19:46.627> reference<00:19:47.044> on<00:19:47.124> someone<00:19:47.605> or<00:19:48.166> to<00:19:48.246> understand,<00:19:48.551> hey,<00:19:48.807> that<00:19:49.208> deal<00:19:49.432> we<00:19:49.512> invested<00:19:49.913> in<00:19:49.993> where<00:19:50.074> the<00:19:50.170> founder's<00:19:50.362> not<00:19:50.506> responding<00:19:50.923> to<00:19:50.955> me,<00:19:51.292> has<00:19:51.388> he<00:19:51.436> responded<00:19:51.789> to<00:19:51.933> you?

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Is<00:19:52.190> it<00:19:52.334> doing<00:19:52.494> well?

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Is<00:19:52.719> it<00:19:52.767> doing<00:19:52.975> poorly?

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So<00:19:54.402> there's<00:19:54.723> a<00:19:54.819> lot<00:19:54.995> of<00:19:55.749> that<00:19:55.769> that<00:19:55.789> goes<00:19:55.809> on<00:19:55.829> too.

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Are<00:19:56.646> you<00:19:56.743> in<00:19:56.823> Silicon<00:19:57.143> Valley?

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So<00:19:59.372> I've<00:19:59.693> been<00:19:59.869> based<00:20:00.110> there<00:20:00.431> at<00:20:00.511> times.

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I'm<00:20:00.912> in<00:20:00.992> New<00:20:01.136> York<00:20:01.313> now,<00:20:01.633> so.

00:20:01.954 --> 00:20:03.076
But<00:20:02.034> I<00:20:02.114> go<00:20:02.275> back<00:20:02.499> and<00:20:02.595> forth<00:20:02.820> a<00:20:02.836> lot.

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Yeah.

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I<00:20:04.103> wonder,<00:20:04.439> like,<00:20:05.225> yeah,<00:20:05.337> that<00:20:05.482> makes<00:20:05.642> sense.

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New<00:20:06.428> York<00:20:06.620> is<00:20:06.764> kind<00:20:06.925> of<00:20:07.390> obviously<00:20:07.726> financial<00:20:08.127> capital<00:20:08.416> of<00:20:08.528> the<00:20:08.608> world.

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Yeah.

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But<00:20:10.276> I<00:20:10.372> wonder,<00:20:11.254> given<00:20:11.559> like<00:20:11.895> you're<00:20:12.136> probably<00:20:12.777> in<00:20:12.858> Silicon<00:20:13.178> Valley<00:20:13.403> investing<00:20:13.820> in<00:20:13.884> those<00:20:14.060> companies<00:20:14.445> as<00:20:14.541> well,<00:20:15.503> is<00:20:15.583> it<00:20:15.728> coming<00:20:16.065> back<00:20:16.626> versus—<00:20:17.027> remember,<00:20:17.331> like<00:20:17.492> there<00:20:17.588> was<00:20:17.732> this<00:20:17.892> whole<00:20:18.053> idea<00:20:18.309> like<00:20:18.566> Silicon<00:20:18.935> Valley<00:20:19.191> was<00:20:19.993> being<00:20:20.234> distributed,<00:20:20.779> it<00:20:20.939> was<00:20:21.099> going<00:20:21.260> to<00:20:21.292> Miami<00:20:22.222> or<00:20:22.943> those<00:20:23.120> types<00:20:23.360> of<00:20:23.424> things.

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My<00:20:24.098> sense<00:20:24.467> is<00:20:24.579> it's<00:20:24.739> like<00:20:24.899> as<00:20:25.028> strong<00:20:25.444> as<00:20:25.669> ever.

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I<00:20:26.037> don't<00:20:26.230> know<00:20:26.326> what<00:20:26.470> your<00:20:26.631> sense<00:20:26.887> is.

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I<00:20:27.993> think<00:20:28.234> especially<00:20:28.650> the<00:20:28.875> AI<00:20:29.131> surge<00:20:29.692> definitely<00:20:30.333> kind<00:20:30.638> of,<00:20:31.199> uh,<00:20:31.616> really<00:20:31.920> put<00:20:32.642> the,<00:20:32.882> the<00:20:33.203> laser<00:20:33.459> focus<00:20:33.860> back<00:20:34.084> on<00:20:34.180> Silicon<00:20:34.501> Valley.

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And,<00:20:36.745> you<00:20:36.825> know,<00:20:37.210> I've,<00:20:37.467> I<00:20:37.563> spent<00:20:37.867> a<00:20:37.883> lot<00:20:38.028> of<00:20:38.092> time<00:20:38.332> there<00:20:38.492> between<00:20:38.813> Pinterest<00:20:39.374> and,<00:20:39.775> uh,<00:20:39.951> my<00:20:40.111> time<00:20:40.288> at<00:20:40.352> Tenaya,<00:20:40.737> and<00:20:40.913> I<00:20:40.961> was<00:20:41.330> at<00:20:41.394> grad<00:20:41.570> school<00:20:41.762> at<00:20:41.795> Stanford<00:20:42.195> for<00:20:42.340> 4<00:20:42.500> years.

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So<00:20:42.997> I've<00:20:43.782> spent<00:20:44.263> easily<00:20:44.520> a<00:20:44.536> decade<00:20:45.000> or<00:20:45.081> more<00:20:45.401> in,<00:20:45.706> in<00:20:45.946> the<00:20:46.203> Bay<00:20:46.267> Area.

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It's<00:20:47.389> still<00:20:47.645> the<00:20:47.709> center<00:20:47.966> of<00:20:48.046> gravity<00:20:48.543> for<00:20:49.088> tech<00:20:49.312> and<00:20:49.409> venture.

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Um,<00:20:51.188> So,<00:20:51.558> and<00:20:51.606> I<00:20:51.622> don't<00:20:51.815> think<00:20:51.992> it's<00:20:52.137> gonna,<00:20:53.486> you<00:20:53.567> know,<00:20:53.808> be<00:20:54.306> displaced<00:20:55.335> wholesale<00:20:56.234> anytime<00:20:56.636> soon,<00:20:57.199> but<00:20:57.520> you're<00:20:57.633> seeing,<00:20:58.066> you<00:20:58.163> know,<00:20:58.259> obviously<00:20:58.950> New<00:20:59.031> York<00:20:59.432> is<00:20:59.673> a<00:20:59.754> very<00:20:59.866> much<00:21:00.497> a<00:21:00.578> second<00:21:00.903> center<00:21:01.130> of<00:21:01.227> gravity<00:21:02.364> for<00:21:02.526> fintech<00:21:03.289> for<00:21:03.500> a<00:21:03.565> long<00:21:03.744> time.

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London<00:21:04.231> has<00:21:04.393> had<00:21:04.523> a<00:21:04.555> lot<00:21:04.702> of<00:21:04.734> great<00:21:04.880> companies.

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In<00:21:06.731> the<00:21:06.893> US,<00:21:07.234> obviously<00:21:07.462> you<00:21:07.494> see<00:21:07.786> pockets<00:21:08.192> in<00:21:08.452> Austin<00:21:09.344> and<00:21:09.441> Seattle<00:21:10.073> and<00:21:10.219> elsewhere.

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Miami<00:21:11.046> became<00:21:11.436> quite<00:21:12.084> hot<00:21:12.490> during<00:21:12.733> COVID<00:21:12.976> especially.

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Boston<00:21:15.882> has<00:21:16.044> always<00:21:16.287> been<00:21:16.545> kind<00:21:16.804> of<00:21:17.127> a<00:21:17.257> big<00:21:17.418> hotbed<00:21:17.758> for<00:21:17.920> things<00:21:18.162> like<00:21:18.728> enterprise<00:21:19.052> software,<00:21:19.617> storage,<00:21:20.345> biotech.

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So,<00:21:21.917> you<00:21:22.013> know,<00:21:22.174> you<00:21:22.254> see<00:21:22.494> other<00:21:22.959> areas<00:21:23.376> coming<00:21:23.761> out,<00:21:24.001> but<00:21:24.642> no,<00:21:25.123> SF<00:21:25.380> still<00:21:25.636> has<00:21:25.861> a<00:21:25.877> lot<00:21:26.101> of<00:21:26.181> the<00:21:26.261> great<00:21:26.422> businesses<00:21:27.704> that<00:21:27.865> get<00:21:27.961> started.

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And<00:21:30.093> the<00:21:30.189> larger<00:21:30.734> companies<00:21:31.151> tend<00:21:31.311> to<00:21:31.391> be<00:21:31.776> out<00:21:31.808> of<00:21:31.872> San<00:21:32.049> Francisco.

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If<00:21:32.498> you<00:21:32.578> look<00:21:32.770> at<00:21:32.898> the<00:21:33.059> bigger<00:21:33.331> success<00:21:33.716> stories,<00:21:34.758> you<00:21:34.790> know,<00:21:34.998> even<00:21:35.640> the,<00:21:35.944> you<00:21:35.992> know,<00:21:36.104> Chime<00:21:36.425> is<00:21:36.505> going<00:21:36.617> to<00:21:36.666> go<00:21:36.746> public.

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It's<00:21:37.227> a<00:21:37.259> Bay<00:21:37.387> Area<00:21:37.643> company,<00:21:37.964> right?

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It's,<00:21:39.070> that<00:21:39.182> just<00:21:39.583> seems<00:21:39.872> to<00:21:39.952> be<00:21:40.048> the<00:21:40.128> case.

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What<00:21:41.523> do<00:21:41.587> you<00:21:41.795> read<00:21:42.613> and<00:21:42.693> what<00:21:42.918> reading<00:21:43.158> recommendations<00:21:43.735> would<00:21:43.831> you<00:21:43.960> have<00:21:44.136> for<00:21:44.360> like<00:21:44.601> the<00:21:44.777> folks<00:21:45.499> you<00:21:45.595> invest<00:21:45.980> in?

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You<00:21:47.953> know,<00:21:48.405> I<00:21:48.486> have<00:21:48.664> all<00:21:48.761> the<00:21:48.890> classic,<00:21:49.390> you<00:21:49.471> know,<00:21:49.552> the<00:21:49.713> books,<00:21:50.036> the<00:21:50.214> Zero<00:21:50.585> to<00:21:50.747> One<00:21:51.167> and<00:21:51.651> the<00:21:51.732> Peter<00:21:51.990> Thiel,<00:21:53.266> The<00:21:53.492> Hard<00:21:53.670> Thing<00:21:53.831> About<00:21:54.057> Hard<00:21:54.300> Things.

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I<00:21:54.800> mean,<00:21:56.560> I<00:21:56.641> think<00:21:56.819> those<00:21:57.160> are<00:21:57.294> useful<00:21:57.729> kind<00:21:57.964> of<00:21:58.148> as,<00:22:00.793> you<00:22:00.906> know,<00:22:01.036> maybe<00:22:01.214> a<00:22:01.360> 101,<00:22:01.781> a<00:22:01.797> foundational<00:22:02.510> layer<00:22:02.834> type<00:22:03.158> thing.

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I<00:22:04.939> read<00:22:05.101> a<00:22:05.247> lot<00:22:05.506> of<00:22:05.749> the<00:22:07.191> other<00:22:07.369> journals<00:22:07.855> and<00:22:08.001> trade<00:22:08.179> publications.

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So<00:22:10.289> the,<00:22:10.388> you<00:22:10.455> know,<00:22:10.620> Wired,<00:22:11.052> Strictly<00:22:11.449> VC,<00:22:15.575> Axios,<00:22:15.595> the<00:22:15.678> Fortune<00:22:16.013> term<00:22:16.281> sheet.

00:22:18.853 --> 00:22:22.697
I<00:22:19.257> have<00:22:19.919> 2<00:22:20.081> or<00:22:20.161> 3<00:22:20.404> different<00:22:21.114> news<00:22:21.373> readers<00:22:22.100> that<00:22:22.245> I<00:22:22.342> go<00:22:22.487> through.

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I<00:22:23.214> also<00:22:23.715> deliberately<00:22:24.603> include<00:22:25.087> in<00:22:25.168> one<00:22:25.265> of<00:22:25.330> the<00:22:25.394> news<00:22:25.637> readers<00:22:25.976> a<00:22:26.040> lot<00:22:26.380> of<00:22:26.590> the<00:22:27.334> foreign<00:22:27.592> publications<00:22:28.741> because<00:22:29.372> I<00:22:29.517> want<00:22:29.792> to<00:22:30.359> see<00:22:30.812> how<00:22:30.973> a<00:22:30.990> story<00:22:31.297> is<00:22:31.459> being<00:22:31.620> covered.

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Forget<00:22:32.716> tech<00:22:32.829> stories,<00:22:33.232> just<00:22:33.409> like<00:22:34.134> anything,<00:22:34.521> right?

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Politics,<00:22:36.310> you<00:22:36.407> name<00:22:36.649> it,<00:22:37.261> how<00:22:37.439> maybe<00:22:37.584> it's<00:22:37.761> being<00:22:37.987> covered<00:22:38.309> out<00:22:38.470> of<00:22:38.954> Europe<00:22:39.373> or<00:22:39.679> the<00:22:39.760> UK<00:22:40.163> or<00:22:40.259> somewhere<00:22:40.501> else<00:22:40.904> that's<00:22:41.388> Canada.

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Australia.

00:22:43.707 --> 00:22:48.008
You<00:22:43.739> know,<00:22:44.092> obviously<00:22:44.975> I<00:22:44.991> have<00:22:45.071> to<00:22:45.151> stick<00:22:45.392> to<00:22:45.633> English-speaking<00:22:46.259> countries<00:22:46.820> for<00:22:47.559> the<00:22:47.639> most<00:22:47.799> part.

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So,<00:22:49.148> um,<00:22:49.645> but<00:22:49.870> you<00:22:49.902> know,<00:22:50.047> you<00:22:50.608> just,<00:22:50.833> you<00:22:50.929> get<00:22:51.074> a<00:22:51.090> spectrum<00:22:51.636> of<00:22:51.668> like,<00:22:52.117> you<00:22:52.149> know,<00:22:52.839> is,<00:22:53.722> you<00:22:53.915> know,<00:22:54.043> the<00:22:54.091> Daily<00:22:54.300> Mail<00:22:54.621> or<00:22:54.717> some<00:22:54.862> of<00:22:54.942> these<00:22:55.086> things<00:22:55.263> in<00:22:55.327> the<00:22:55.407> UK,<00:22:55.568> are<00:22:55.648> they<00:22:55.680> even<00:22:55.905> talking<00:22:56.290> about<00:22:56.547> this<00:22:56.772> thing<00:22:56.884> or<00:22:56.948> is<00:22:57.077> it<00:22:57.109> like<00:22:57.269> a<00:22:57.333> US-only<00:22:57.847> story?

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Um,<00:23:00.239> but<00:23:00.383> that's,<00:23:00.720> you<00:23:00.832> know,<00:23:01.025> I<00:23:01.137> would<00:23:01.266> say<00:23:02.309> all<00:23:02.502> of<00:23:02.726> the<00:23:03.112> various<00:23:03.433> news<00:23:03.609> publications<00:23:04.412> both<00:23:04.652> in<00:23:04.813> tech,<00:23:05.776> in<00:23:05.936> venture,<00:23:06.562> and<00:23:06.643> the<00:23:06.739> broader<00:23:07.124> news,<00:23:07.381> that,<00:23:07.542> that's<00:23:07.782> kind<00:23:07.959> of<00:23:08.087> what<00:23:08.184> I<00:23:08.408> really<00:23:08.585> consume<00:23:09.307> on<00:23:09.564> a<00:23:09.708> day-in<00:23:10.110> and<00:23:10.527> day-out<00:23:10.591> basis.

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How<00:23:12.265> do<00:23:12.330> you<00:23:12.491> think—<00:23:12.831> we<00:23:12.976> touched<00:23:13.154> on<00:23:13.218> this<00:23:13.364> a<00:23:13.461> little<00:23:13.574> bit,<00:23:13.719> but<00:23:13.865> I<00:23:13.945> wonder<00:23:14.673> just<00:23:14.834> generally,<00:23:15.254> and<00:23:15.400> obviously<00:23:15.642> there's<00:23:15.917> no<00:23:17.839> real<00:23:18.146> answer<00:23:18.470> to<00:23:18.550> this<00:23:18.664> because<00:23:18.890> none<00:23:18.987> of<00:23:19.132> us<00:23:19.278> know,<00:23:19.455> but<00:23:19.601> what<00:23:19.698> do<00:23:19.746> you<00:23:19.859> think<00:23:20.037> about<00:23:20.328> AI<00:23:20.909> and<00:23:21.055> the<00:23:21.120> future<00:23:22.352> of<00:23:22.514> AI<00:23:23.016> and<00:23:23.162> how<00:23:23.406> that's<00:23:23.681> affecting<00:23:24.151> everything?

00:23:26.652 --> 00:23:30.106
I<00:23:26.716> mean,<00:23:26.957> you<00:23:26.989> know,<00:23:27.134> that's<00:23:27.616> the<00:23:27.937> zillion-dollar<00:23:28.564> question,<00:23:29.383> right?

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I<00:23:30.283> think<00:23:34.203> in<00:23:34.348> the<00:23:34.444> venture<00:23:34.766> space<00:23:35.264> specifically,<00:23:36.051> there's<00:23:36.212> been<00:23:36.440> obviously<00:23:36.945> a<00:23:36.962> massive<00:23:37.418> exuberance<00:23:38.396> around<00:23:39.292> AI,<00:23:39.797> and<00:23:40.025> you're<00:23:40.123> seeing<00:23:41.533> a<00:23:41.565> few<00:23:41.727> different<00:23:42.018> things<00:23:42.180> happening.

00:23:42.601 --> 00:23:58.853
One<00:23:42.779> is<00:23:43.006> that<00:23:43.669> the<00:23:43.798> largest<00:23:44.219> companies<00:23:45.498> that<00:23:45.595> are<00:23:45.676> getting<00:23:45.837> the<00:23:45.918> most<00:23:46.145> funding<00:23:46.404> are<00:23:46.485> the<00:23:46.582> foundational<00:23:47.682> layer,<00:23:49.019> foundational<00:23:49.648> model<00:23:49.906> companies,<00:23:50.454> the<00:23:50.615> OpenAI,<00:23:51.163> Anthropic,<00:23:52.292> those<00:23:52.469> businesses,<00:23:53.034> Perplexity,<00:23:56.403> and<00:23:56.710> Mistral,<00:23:57.290> where,<00:23:57.547> where<00:23:57.628> Headlines<00:23:58.031> involved<00:23:58.418> out<00:23:58.498> of<00:23:58.579> Europe.

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So<00:24:00.448> those<00:24:00.674> companies<00:24:01.157> feel<00:24:01.318> like<00:24:01.737> they're<00:24:03.171> built<00:24:03.349> to<00:24:03.429> last<00:24:03.977> and<00:24:04.219> will<00:24:04.460> be<00:24:04.638> the<00:24:04.718> kind<00:24:04.960> of<00:24:05.170> large<00:24:06.670> businesses<00:24:07.164> that<00:24:07.263> really<00:24:07.428> get<00:24:07.593> developed.

00:24:08.653 --> 00:24:17.211
The<00:24:08.894> bigger<00:24:09.135> question<00:24:09.681> mark—<00:24:10.018> and<00:24:10.805> by<00:24:10.917> the<00:24:10.998> way,<00:24:11.303> those<00:24:11.849> asterisks,<00:24:12.651> there<00:24:12.892> is<00:24:12.989> some<00:24:13.149> question<00:24:13.390> on<00:24:13.551> economics<00:24:14.113> because<00:24:14.658> they're<00:24:14.980> also<00:24:15.172> some<00:24:15.317> of<00:24:15.349> the<00:24:15.397> most<00:24:15.558> capital-intensive<00:24:16.280> companies<00:24:16.682> we've<00:24:16.906> ever<00:24:17.019> seen.

00:24:17.790 --> 00:24:25.914
I<00:24:18.046> think<00:24:18.512> the<00:24:18.930> record<00:24:19.251> for<00:24:19.475> the<00:24:19.572> most<00:24:19.732> capital-intensive<00:24:20.375> company<00:24:20.840> ever<00:24:20.953> started<00:24:21.418> for<00:24:21.563> a<00:24:21.643> long<00:24:21.884> time,<00:24:22.687> inflation<00:24:23.265> adjusted,<00:24:24.309> was<00:24:24.694> Federal<00:24:24.870> Express,<00:24:25.432> FedEx.

00:24:26.701 --> 00:24:30.940
It<00:24:26.797> took<00:24:27.022> Fred<00:24:27.215> Smith<00:24:27.664> $100<00:24:28.917> million<00:24:29.350> day<00:24:29.591> one<00:24:29.848> to<00:24:30.009> buy<00:24:30.394> 3<00:24:30.571> planes.

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FedEx<00:24:31.759> was<00:24:31.871> extraordinarily<00:24:32.497> capital-intensive.

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But<00:24:34.006> I<00:24:34.102> think<00:24:34.343> recently<00:24:34.728> OpenAI<00:24:35.305> beat<00:24:35.690> it,<00:24:35.786> like,<00:24:36.187> because<00:24:36.604> it's<00:24:36.700> just<00:24:36.909> like<00:24:37.454> the<00:24:37.630> dollars<00:24:38.352> it<00:24:38.432> takes<00:24:39.651> to<00:24:40.116> maintain<00:24:40.838> and<00:24:41.062> build<00:24:41.303> these<00:24:41.543> models,<00:24:42.746> the<00:24:42.906> energy<00:24:43.388> output,<00:24:44.270> the<00:24:44.847> cost<00:24:45.232> of<00:24:45.312> just<00:24:45.488> the<00:24:45.568> data<00:24:45.809> centers.

00:24:46.691 --> 00:24:50.957
So<00:24:47.733> they're<00:24:47.878> extraordinarily<00:24:48.439> capital<00:24:48.680> intensive<00:24:49.096> and<00:24:49.161> the<00:24:49.257> economics<00:24:49.898> are<00:24:49.962> still<00:24:50.363> not<00:24:50.540> quite<00:24:50.844> there.

00:24:51.005 --> 00:25:00.001
I<00:24:51.021> mean,<00:24:51.085> you<00:24:51.117> saw<00:24:52.208> the<00:24:52.304> big<00:24:52.544> news<00:24:52.785> recently<00:24:53.250> where<00:24:54.773> the<00:24:54.870> pro<00:24:55.174> version<00:24:55.495> of<00:24:55.591> ChatGPT,<00:24:56.457> you<00:24:56.489> know,<00:24:56.634> Sam<00:24:56.938> Altman<00:24:57.131> said<00:24:57.291> that<00:24:57.516> we're<00:24:57.660> losing<00:24:57.916> money<00:24:58.157> on<00:24:58.382> it,<00:24:58.510> even<00:24:58.638> at<00:24:58.782> the<00:24:59.199> price<00:24:59.440> point<00:24:59.664> we<00:24:59.745> picked.

00:25:00.643 --> 00:25:04.896
So<00:25:01.766> there<00:25:02.954> is<00:25:03.275> that<00:25:03.516> whole<00:25:03.628> thing<00:25:03.853> to<00:25:03.917> figure<00:25:04.238> out,<00:25:04.639> right?

00:25:05.602 --> 00:25:09.325
Obviously<00:25:06.806> Amazon<00:25:07.143> famously<00:25:07.528> lost<00:25:07.785> money<00:25:07.945> for<00:25:08.025> many,<00:25:08.202> many<00:25:08.346> years<00:25:08.571> until<00:25:08.748> they<00:25:08.828> figured<00:25:09.069> it<00:25:09.213> out.

00:25:09.374 --> 00:25:12.535
So<00:25:09.566> it's<00:25:10.192> not<00:25:10.433> insurmountable,<00:25:11.075> but<00:25:11.219> that<00:25:11.396> is<00:25:11.476> something<00:25:11.797> to<00:25:11.829> just<00:25:12.038> keep<00:25:12.214> in<00:25:12.262> mind.

00:25:13.305 --> 00:25:26.176
The<00:25:13.466> bigger<00:25:13.642> question<00:25:14.028> mark<00:25:14.268> is,<00:25:14.445> well,<00:25:15.087> then<00:25:16.050> what<00:25:16.210> are<00:25:16.355> the<00:25:16.451> interesting<00:25:16.916> application<00:25:17.494> companies<00:25:18.056> that<00:25:18.216> are<00:25:18.441> built<00:25:18.698> on<00:25:18.842> top<00:25:19.099> of<00:25:19.179> these<00:25:19.725> AI<00:25:19.917> models<00:25:21.169> that<00:25:21.346> actually<00:25:21.827> have<00:25:22.453> something<00:25:22.790> differentiated,<00:25:23.753> protectable,<00:25:25.679> useful?

00:25:27.110 --> 00:25:34.466
And<00:25:27.223> then<00:25:27.352> the<00:25:27.449> fintech<00:25:27.933> space,<00:25:28.481> you<00:25:28.562> know,<00:25:28.659> we've<00:25:28.917> seen<00:25:29.369> just<00:25:29.707> like<00:25:29.885> so<00:25:30.191> many<00:25:30.417> companies,<00:25:30.740> for<00:25:30.804> example,<00:25:31.159> they're<00:25:31.320> doing<00:25:32.434> AI<00:25:32.756> for<00:25:32.917> accounting,<00:25:34.289> right?

00:25:34.547 --> 00:25:40.404
Like<00:25:34.627> helping<00:25:35.353> accounting<00:25:35.821> firms<00:25:36.305> be<00:25:36.370> more<00:25:36.482> efficient<00:25:37.209> and<00:25:37.515> better<00:25:37.838> at,<00:25:38.806> uh,<00:25:39.387> doing<00:25:39.549> accounting<00:25:39.952> services.

00:25:41.953 --> 00:25:47.787
Uh,<00:25:42.211> legal,<00:25:42.696> which<00:25:42.857> is<00:25:42.922> not<00:25:43.034> really<00:25:43.180> fintech,<00:25:43.745> but<00:25:43.841> it's<00:25:43.987> kind<00:25:44.148> of<00:25:44.229> adjacent,<00:25:44.794> you<00:25:44.826> know,<00:25:44.971> tons<00:25:45.278> of<00:25:45.439> companies<00:25:45.762> doing<00:25:46.232> AI-centric<00:25:47.058> legal<00:25:47.301> services.

00:25:48.743 --> 00:25:59.311
Uh,<00:25:49.570> you<00:25:49.667> know,<00:25:50.201> how<00:25:50.396> are<00:25:50.461> these<00:25:50.623> companies<00:25:50.785> going<00:25:50.898> to<00:25:50.931> differentiate<00:25:52.573> Is<00:25:53.680> there<00:25:53.776> something<00:25:54.017> protectable<00:25:54.658> basically<00:25:55.124> because<00:25:55.541> of<00:25:56.343> longevity<00:25:56.888> in<00:25:56.969> the<00:25:57.017> market<00:25:57.530> or<00:25:57.626> how<00:25:57.771> long<00:25:58.028> the<00:25:58.108> models<00:25:58.429> have<00:25:58.573> been<00:25:58.669> trained?

00:25:59.696 --> 00:26:00.835
I<00:25:59.712> don't<00:26:00.594> know.

00:26:01.060 --> 00:26:10.990
I<00:26:01.252> mean,<00:26:02.022> that's<00:26:02.439> a<00:26:02.520> big<00:26:02.680> question<00:26:03.081> mark<00:26:03.322> and<00:26:03.466> where<00:26:03.627> you<00:26:03.723> want<00:26:03.915> to<00:26:03.963> invest<00:26:04.365> in<00:26:04.445> those<00:26:04.605> companies,<00:26:04.942> especially<00:26:05.311> when<00:26:05.953> these<00:26:06.065> seed<00:26:06.354> rounds<00:26:06.675> are<00:26:06.707> getting<00:26:07.092> bid<00:26:07.252> up<00:26:07.493> and<00:26:07.573> you're<00:26:07.878> looking<00:26:08.135> at<00:26:08.616> seed<00:26:08.857> rounds<00:26:09.161> that<00:26:09.274> are<00:26:09.418> $50,<00:26:09.579> $100<00:26:09.835> million<00:26:10.012> valuations.

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It's<00:26:12.627> a<00:26:12.707> tough<00:26:12.948> thing<00:26:13.124> to<00:26:13.268> do.

00:26:14.311 --> 00:26:24.311
And<00:26:14.391> the<00:26:14.536> one<00:26:14.696> thing<00:26:14.793> that<00:26:14.937> I<00:26:15.033> heard<00:26:15.194> that<00:26:15.290> I<00:26:15.354> probably<00:26:15.675> agree<00:26:15.996> with<00:26:16.461> is,<00:26:17.584> you<00:26:17.648> know,<00:26:18.226> 90%<00:26:18.643> of<00:26:19.510> AI<00:26:19.832> companies<00:26:20.249> today<00:26:21.132> are<00:26:21.373> probably<00:26:21.694> overvalued<00:26:23.123> and<00:26:23.219> 10%<00:26:23.541> are<00:26:23.765> undervalued.

00:26:25.146 --> 00:26:27.121
The<00:26:25.243> challenge<00:26:25.692> is<00:26:25.965> it's<00:26:26.110> hard<00:26:26.367> to<00:26:26.415> tell<00:26:26.656> which<00:26:26.816> is<00:26:26.912> which.

00:26:28.117 --> 00:26:28.663
You<00:26:28.197> know,<00:26:28.261> it's<00:26:28.374> impossible.

00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:32.998
It's<00:26:28.903> like,<00:26:29.176> who's—<00:26:29.546> who<00:26:29.706> just<00:26:29.867> has<00:26:30.044> like<00:26:30.188> a<00:26:30.268> plugin<00:26:30.766> to<00:26:30.911> ChatGPT<00:26:31.729> and<00:26:31.874> who's<00:26:32.131> built<00:26:32.372> something<00:26:32.757> real?

00:26:33.078 --> 00:26:36.450
You<00:26:33.110> know,<00:26:33.737> it's<00:26:33.881> hard<00:26:34.042> to<00:26:34.122> even<00:26:34.299> tell<00:26:34.411> like<00:26:34.620> what<00:26:34.796> an<00:26:34.925> AI<00:26:35.246> company<00:26:35.663> is,<00:26:36.065> to<00:26:36.209> be<00:26:36.306> honest.

00:26:36.627 --> 00:26:36.948
Exactly.

00:26:37.092 --> 00:26:38.297
Everybody's<00:26:37.654> an<00:26:37.751> AI<00:26:37.911> company<00:26:38.232> now.

00:26:38.618 --> 00:26:40.866
AI<00:26:38.794> has<00:26:38.955> become<00:26:39.260> like<00:26:39.581> HTML<00:26:40.175> or<00:26:40.320> JavaScript.

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It's<00:26:41.123> a<00:26:41.187> foundational<00:26:41.925> kind<00:26:42.150> of<00:26:42.247> piece<00:26:42.503> of<00:26:42.632> your<00:26:42.792> business.

00:26:43.756 --> 00:26:53.936
So<00:26:44.176> just<00:26:44.402> because<00:26:44.983> you've<00:26:45.935> hooked<00:26:46.177> up<00:26:46.273> to<00:26:46.741> OpenAI<00:26:47.000> or<00:26:47.242> ChatGPT<00:26:47.806> for<00:26:48.000> some<00:26:48.290> portion<00:26:49.146> of<00:26:49.242> your<00:26:49.420> company,<00:26:49.759> that's<00:26:50.630> like<00:26:50.808> saying<00:26:51.340> I<00:26:51.534> use<00:26:51.743> AWS<00:26:52.002> and<00:26:52.389> I<00:26:52.889> built<00:26:53.115> my<00:26:53.180> site<00:26:53.356> using<00:26:53.614> JavaScript.

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So<00:26:55.046> it's<00:26:55.126> become<00:26:55.528> kind<00:26:55.689> of<00:26:55.721> table<00:26:56.027> stakes<00:26:57.700> and<00:26:57.941> it's<00:26:58.279> made<00:26:58.456> my<00:26:58.681> job<00:26:59.807> and<00:27:00.033> all<00:27:00.193> the<00:27:00.370> venture<00:27:00.612> investors'<00:27:01.078> jobs<00:27:01.352> a<00:27:01.496> little<00:27:01.722> more<00:27:01.802> difficult.

00:27:04.013 --> 00:27:11.211
But<00:27:04.159> I<00:27:04.175> think<00:27:04.823> at<00:27:04.904> the<00:27:05.050> end<00:27:05.115> of<00:27:05.147> the<00:27:05.228> day,<00:27:05.374> especially<00:27:05.730> at<00:27:05.812> seed<00:27:06.119> and<00:27:06.265> pre-seed,<00:27:06.849> and<00:27:07.270> this<00:27:07.432> is<00:27:07.513> going<00:27:07.610> to<00:27:07.675> sound<00:27:07.983> trite,<00:27:08.388> but<00:27:09.767> you<00:27:09.863> go<00:27:10.024> back<00:27:10.200> to<00:27:10.281> the<00:27:10.361> founders,<00:27:10.906> right?

00:27:11.693 --> 00:27:28.284
You<00:27:11.789> want—<00:27:12.030> if<00:27:12.110> you<00:27:12.575> back<00:27:12.896> great<00:27:13.137> founders,<00:27:14.196> people<00:27:14.501> that<00:27:14.581> have<00:27:14.693> a<00:27:14.741> real<00:27:14.982> passion<00:27:15.335> and<00:27:15.480> drive,<00:27:17.004> enthusiasm<00:27:17.726> for<00:27:17.870> a<00:27:17.887> sector,<00:27:18.368> experience,<00:27:19.652> are<00:27:19.732> able<00:27:19.924> to<00:27:19.973> attract<00:27:20.614> employees,<00:27:21.320> capital,<00:27:21.898> kind<00:27:22.107> of<00:27:22.155> have<00:27:22.379> that<00:27:23.278> center<00:27:23.663> of<00:27:23.743> gravity<00:27:24.225> vibe<00:27:24.546> to<00:27:24.690> them,<00:27:25.492> they<00:27:25.669> tend<00:27:25.926> to<00:27:26.070> build<00:27:26.551> good<00:27:26.696> companies<00:27:27.418> and<00:27:27.562> have<00:27:27.691> big<00:27:27.899> outcomes.

00:27:28.477 --> 00:27:30.386
And<00:27:28.621> so<00:27:28.798> that's<00:27:28.958> something<00:27:29.584> you<00:27:29.664> want<00:27:29.777> to<00:27:29.825> come<00:27:29.985> back<00:27:30.178> to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,<00:27:33.114> I<00:27:33.211> think<00:27:33.371> that's<00:27:33.612> right.

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How<00:27:33.901> are<00:27:34.013> you<00:27:34.173> feeling<00:27:34.494> about<00:27:35.842> the<00:27:35.938> state<00:27:36.259> of<00:27:36.340> venture<00:27:36.644> capital?

00:27:37.078 --> 00:27:40.239
It<00:27:37.126> seems<00:27:37.222> like<00:27:37.367> we're<00:27:37.447> seeing<00:27:37.639> a<00:27:37.704> bit<00:27:37.800> of<00:27:37.880> a<00:27:38.008> contraction<00:27:38.570> in<00:27:38.666> 2020,<00:27:39.228> 2021.

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It<00:27:40.800> seems<00:27:40.980> like<00:27:41.260> everybody<00:27:41.940> was<00:27:42.520> starting<00:27:42.800> a<00:27:43.100> fund<00:27:43.560> or<00:27:43.880> syndicate<00:27:44.360> or<00:27:44.520> all<00:27:44.680> this<00:27:44.800> type<00:27:44.960> of<00:27:45.060> stuff.

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Like,<00:27:45.660> yeah,<00:27:46.020> for<00:27:46.480> whatever<00:27:46.740> reason,<00:27:47.360> like<00:27:47.361> everybody<00:27:47.940> around<00:27:48.320> me<00:27:48.540> that<00:27:48.660> I<00:27:48.800> knew.

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Yeah,<00:27:49.580> everybody<00:27:49.740> around<00:27:50.100> me<00:27:50.300> is<00:27:50.440> like<00:27:50.540> starting<00:27:50.800> a<00:27:51.020> fund.

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That's<00:27:52.980> not<00:27:53.140> possible<00:27:53.460> anymore.

00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:56.470
It<00:27:53.941> feels<00:27:54.160> like,<00:27:54.560> and<00:27:54.561> it<00:27:54.600> feels<00:27:54.740> like<00:27:54.880> we're<00:27:55.360> seeing<00:27:55.640> a<00:27:55.740> bit<00:27:55.840> of<00:27:56.000> a<00:27:56.120> contraction.

00:27:57.100 --> 00:27:59.080
What<00:27:57.200> is<00:27:57.360> the<00:27:57.520> state<00:27:57.740> of<00:27:57.820> venture<00:27:58.020> capital<00:27:58.360> right<00:27:58.580> now?

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It's—<00:28:00.840> you're<00:28:00.841> right,<00:28:00.960> it's<00:28:01.080> in<00:28:01.220> transition.

00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:09.260
I<00:28:01.780> mean,<00:28:01.980> I<00:28:01.981> think<00:28:02.060> a<00:28:02.280> lot<00:28:02.400> of<00:28:02.520> the<00:28:02.620> first-time<00:28:03.020> funds<00:28:03.320> that<00:28:03.500> were<00:28:03.700> raised<00:28:04.160> in<00:28:05.080> 2020,<00:28:05.680> 2021,<00:28:06.660> you<00:28:07.240> know,<00:28:07.360> may<00:28:07.500> have<00:28:07.600> a<00:28:07.720> difficult<00:28:07.980> time<00:28:08.300> getting<00:28:08.460> to<00:28:08.660> a<00:28:08.820> fund<00:28:08.960> 2.

00:28:10.197 --> 00:28:20.693
You<00:28:10.309> saw<00:28:10.517> a<00:28:10.533> lot<00:28:10.709> of<00:28:10.854> tourist<00:28:11.479> venture<00:28:11.719> capitalists,<00:28:12.216> people<00:28:12.536> that<00:28:12.697> were<00:28:14.620> especially<00:28:15.084> corporates,<00:28:15.565> you<00:28:15.645> know,<00:28:15.741> companies<00:28:16.302> that,<00:28:17.488> you<00:28:17.520> know,<00:28:17.664> saw<00:28:18.145> kind<00:28:19.331> of<00:28:20.052> the<00:28:20.132> tidal<00:28:20.469> wave.

00:28:20.789 --> 00:28:26.847
And<00:28:20.885> so<00:28:21.110> they<00:28:21.190> got,<00:28:21.671> you<00:28:21.703> know,<00:28:22.087> started<00:28:22.376> a<00:28:22.392> corporate<00:28:22.632> venture<00:28:23.017> arm<00:28:23.193> or<00:28:23.353> started<00:28:23.674> to<00:28:23.706> do<00:28:23.770> some<00:28:24.651> fund<00:28:24.940> of<00:28:24.972> funds<00:28:25.196> investing<00:28:25.677> or<00:28:25.757> direct<00:28:26.013> investing<00:28:26.382> in<00:28:26.542> companies.

00:28:26.959 --> 00:28:28.081
And<00:28:27.039> those<00:28:27.263> folks<00:28:27.424> have<00:28:27.584> pulled<00:28:27.760> back.

00:28:28.946 --> 00:28:34.779
Other<00:28:29.122> asset<00:28:29.443> classes<00:28:29.988> like<00:28:30.148> hedge<00:28:30.388> funds<00:28:30.581> and<00:28:30.709> private<00:28:30.965> equity<00:28:31.206> funds<00:28:31.526> are<00:28:31.590> starting<00:28:31.863> to<00:28:31.927> do<00:28:32.071> more<00:28:32.247> on<00:28:32.311> the<00:28:32.407> venture<00:28:32.664> side<00:28:32.984> and<00:28:33.209> earlier<00:28:33.850> stage<00:28:34.154> private<00:28:34.411> deals.

00:28:36.307 --> 00:28:44.384
They've<00:28:36.565> pulled<00:28:36.807> back,<00:28:37.194> you<00:28:37.226> know,<00:28:37.516> obviously<00:28:37.919> famously<00:28:38.419> you've<00:28:38.564> seen<00:28:38.886> like<00:28:39.064> Tiger<00:28:39.467> and<00:28:39.628> Kotu<00:28:39.951> and<00:28:40.031> some<00:28:40.176> of<00:28:40.209> these<00:28:40.434> guys<00:28:41.305> pull<00:28:41.402> back<00:28:41.563> pretty<00:28:41.724> significantly<00:28:42.450> on<00:28:42.595> their<00:28:42.691> early<00:28:42.949> stage<00:28:43.659> venture<00:28:44.046> efforts.

00:28:45.110 --> 00:28:49.574
Whereas<00:28:45.417> like<00:28:45.580> in<00:28:45.613> 2020,<00:28:45.923> 2021,<00:28:46.640> I<00:28:46.901> was<00:28:46.982> seeing<00:28:47.211> Tiger<00:28:47.553> and<00:28:47.700> like<00:28:47.814> seed<00:28:48.123> deals<00:28:48.433> and<00:28:48.564> stuff,<00:28:48.939> you<00:28:48.971> know,<00:28:49.102> it<00:28:49.183> was<00:28:49.411> crazy.

00:28:51.617 --> 00:28:52.872
So<00:28:51.858> all<00:28:51.955> of<00:28:52.051> that<00:28:52.245> has<00:28:52.422> happened.

00:28:53.227 --> 00:29:06.800
And<00:28:53.790> at<00:28:53.887> the<00:28:53.967> same<00:28:54.354> time,<00:28:54.756> the<00:28:54.837> existing<00:28:55.336> funds,<00:28:55.738> the<00:28:55.819> incumbent<00:28:56.302> funds,<00:28:57.590> I<00:28:57.671> think<00:28:57.896> because<00:28:58.331> of<00:28:58.459> the<00:28:58.556> lack<00:28:58.894> of<00:28:59.023> liquidity<00:28:59.844> and<00:28:59.925> because<00:29:00.488> of<00:29:01.880> pressure<00:29:02.380> from<00:29:02.680> LPs<00:29:03.100> to<00:29:03.300> generate<00:29:03.580> returns<00:29:04.240> and<00:29:04.780> because<00:29:05.180> of<00:29:05.440> frankly<00:29:05.600> just<00:29:05.820> a<00:29:05.940> lot<00:29:06.040> of<00:29:06.240> losses,<00:29:06.660> right?

00:29:06.800 --> 00:29:07.710
You've<00:29:06.900> had<00:29:06.980> a<00:29:07.040> lot<00:29:07.180> of<00:29:07.360> companies.

00:29:08.060 --> 00:29:18.220
I've<00:29:08.200> had<00:29:08.260> more<00:29:08.440> companies<00:29:08.780> in<00:29:08.940> the<00:29:09.040> last<00:29:09.160> 18<00:29:09.460> months<00:29:09.920> go<00:29:10.540> to<00:29:10.760> zero,<00:29:11.300> do<00:29:11.360> a<00:29:11.520> punitive<00:29:11.800> recap,<00:29:12.540> you<00:29:12.560> know,<00:29:12.860> enter<00:29:13.060> some<00:29:13.200> kind<00:29:13.420> of<00:29:13.500> bankruptcy<00:29:13.900> or<00:29:14.120> lawsuit<00:29:14.620> than<00:29:15.260> I<00:29:15.360> did<00:29:15.500> in<00:29:15.680> the<00:29:15.681> prior,<00:29:16.080> you<00:29:16.140> know,<00:29:16.880> 15<00:29:16.980> years<00:29:17.200> of<00:29:17.360> doing<00:29:17.500> this,<00:29:17.760> right?

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It's,<00:29:18.760> and<00:29:18.761> I<00:29:18.860> think<00:29:18.960> there's<00:29:19.120> probably<00:29:19.340> still<00:29:19.580> a<00:29:19.720> few<00:29:19.800> more<00:29:19.980> that<00:29:20.100> are<00:29:20.240> going<00:29:20.280> to<00:29:20.520> happen.

00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.860
So<00:29:21.860> the<00:29:21.980> bloodletting<00:29:22.580> is<00:29:22.800> still<00:29:23.000> happening<00:29:23.360> and<00:29:23.540> that's<00:29:23.740> been<00:29:23.900> painful<00:29:24.180> for<00:29:24.360> firms.

00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:36.724
And<00:29:25.580> so<00:29:25.760> all<00:29:25.980> of<00:29:26.120> that<00:29:26.240> has<00:29:26.380> resulted<00:29:26.720> in<00:29:26.920> an<00:29:27.100> environment,<00:29:27.400> I<00:29:27.460> think,<00:29:27.720> where<00:29:27.820> you're<00:29:28.000> seeing<00:29:28.240> a<00:29:28.440> lot<00:29:28.560> of<00:29:28.680> the<00:29:28.780> larger<00:29:29.160> firms<00:29:30.492> become<00:29:31.297> a<00:29:31.378> little<00:29:31.587> bit<00:29:31.700> more<00:29:31.797> conservative<00:29:32.441> and<00:29:32.570> risk-averse,<00:29:34.438> which<00:29:34.663> is<00:29:34.937> not<00:29:35.146> a<00:29:35.227> great<00:29:35.549> thing<00:29:36.064> for<00:29:36.209> the<00:29:36.370> industry,<00:29:36.676> right?

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Because<00:29:37.014> it's<00:29:37.256> called<00:29:37.497> venture.

00:29:37.739 --> 00:29:42.327
It's<00:29:37.900> not<00:29:38.061> called<00:29:38.947> riskless<00:29:39.333> capital<00:29:39.720> or<00:29:40.225> we're<00:29:40.388> not<00:29:40.714> like<00:29:41.382> bonds<00:29:41.871> or<00:29:41.904> something.

00:29:44.092 --> 00:29:49.574
This<00:29:44.318> is<00:29:44.399> the<00:29:44.560> asset<00:29:44.818> class<00:29:45.140> among<00:29:45.608> all<00:29:45.704> the<00:29:45.866> asset<00:29:46.140> classes<00:29:46.511> supposed<00:29:46.704> to<00:29:46.833> be<00:29:46.914> the<00:29:47.075> most<00:29:47.784> risky<00:29:48.768> and<00:29:48.848> risk<00:29:49.009> tolerant.

00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:59.787
And<00:29:50.847> unfortunately,<00:29:51.508> you're<00:29:51.621> seeing<00:29:51.911> a<00:29:51.960> lot<00:29:52.218> of<00:29:52.347> kind<00:29:55.059> of<00:29:55.221> reversion<00:29:55.851> to<00:29:56.590> the<00:29:56.655> mean<00:29:57.016> where<00:29:57.262> everyone<00:29:57.606> is<00:29:57.754> chasing<00:29:58.672> B2B<00:29:58.935> software<00:29:59.394> companies.

00:30:01.310 --> 00:30:04.313
And<00:30:01.813> yeah,<00:30:01.991> those<00:30:02.170> are<00:30:02.235> great<00:30:02.397> companies,<00:30:03.290> but<00:30:03.453> they're<00:30:03.680> crowded<00:30:03.940> trades.

00:30:04.914 --> 00:30:07.301
Every<00:30:05.093> one<00:30:05.239> of<00:30:05.304> those<00:30:05.401> deals<00:30:05.710> gets<00:30:05.953> like<00:30:06.554> 10<00:30:06.781> term<00:30:07.009> sheets.

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And<00:30:08.564> I<00:30:08.645> don't<00:30:08.870> think<00:30:08.966> we're<00:30:09.127> going<00:30:09.224> to<00:30:09.369> lose<00:30:09.530> money<00:30:09.691> in<00:30:09.755> those<00:30:09.948> deals.

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We're<00:30:10.350> not<00:30:10.479> going<00:30:10.544> to<00:30:10.576> make<00:30:10.817> a<00:30:10.833> lot<00:30:11.059> of<00:30:11.284> money.

00:30:12.427 --> 00:30:22.417
At<00:30:12.507> the<00:30:12.588> same<00:30:12.829> time,<00:30:13.151> there<00:30:13.215> are<00:30:13.296> entire<00:30:13.875> swaths<00:30:14.454> of<00:30:14.535> businesses<00:30:15.067> like<00:30:17.123> consumer<00:30:17.592> fintech,<00:30:18.321> e-commerce,<00:30:19.050> marketing<00:30:19.535> tech,<00:30:19.924> ad<00:30:20.037> tech<00:30:20.895> that<00:30:21.009> are<00:30:21.106> just<00:30:21.235> like<00:30:21.397> box<00:30:21.786> office<00:30:22.045> poison.

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Don't<00:30:22.692> go<00:30:22.854> near<00:30:23.097> them.,<00:30:24.560> and<00:30:25.480> that's<00:30:25.700> become<00:30:26.000> kind<00:30:26.120> of<00:30:26.220> conventional<00:30:26.580> wisdom.

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And<00:30:27.660> for<00:30:27.840> me,<00:30:28.400> you<00:30:28.420> know,<00:30:28.620> I<00:30:28.640> think<00:30:28.740> it's<00:30:28.880> an<00:30:28.980> opportunity<00:30:29.240> to<00:30:29.400> look<00:30:29.460> at<00:30:29.600> those<00:30:29.720> companies<00:30:30.140> because<00:30:30.340> I<00:30:30.560> think<00:30:30.561> those<00:30:30.700> are<00:30:30.840> some<00:30:31.000> of<00:30:31.160> the<00:30:31.460> less<00:30:31.800> crowded<00:30:32.180> trades<00:30:32.760> where<00:30:33.260> you<00:30:33.320> might<00:30:33.540> find<00:30:33.660> a<00:30:33.820> great<00:30:33.940> founder<00:30:34.300> or<00:30:34.460> two<00:30:34.580> that's<00:30:34.760> doing<00:30:34.940> a<00:30:35.140> deal<00:30:35.320> at<00:30:35.540> a<00:30:35.860> reasonable<00:30:36.120> price.

00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:49.320
Um,<00:30:37.820> and<00:30:38.040> I<00:30:38.100> do<00:30:38.300> think<00:30:38.420> there's<00:30:38.600> a<00:30:38.800> sea<00:30:38.980> change<00:30:39.220> coming<00:30:39.480> where<00:30:39.660> you're<00:30:39.820> going<00:30:39.821> to<00:30:39.940> see<00:30:40.060> some<00:30:40.220> of<00:30:40.240> those<00:30:40.420> outer<00:30:40.600> favorite<00:30:40.900> sectors<00:30:41.260> coming<00:30:41.580> back,<00:30:42.620> particularly,<00:30:43.060> uh,<00:30:43.580> all-flat<00:30:43.840> consumer<00:30:44.160> fintech<00:30:44.740> because<00:30:45.400> the<00:30:46.060> two<00:30:46.280> biggest<00:30:46.600> IPOs<00:30:47.000> are<00:30:47.120> going<00:30:47.220> to<00:30:47.300> happen<00:30:47.540> in<00:30:47.680> the<00:30:47.740> next<00:30:47.900> 6<00:30:48.080> months,<00:30:48.640> Klarna<00:30:48.800> and<00:30:48.920> Chime.

00:30:49.620 --> 00:30:51.020
They're<00:30:49.940> both<00:30:50.080> consumer<00:30:50.420> fintech<00:30:50.680> companies.

00:30:51.897 --> 00:31:01.626
So<00:30:52.218> just<00:30:52.395> the<00:30:52.475> sheer<00:30:52.780> cognitive<00:30:53.181> dissonance<00:30:53.535> alone<00:30:53.904> of<00:30:53.936> seeing,<00:30:55.108> you<00:30:55.188> know,<00:30:55.525> other<00:30:55.750> funds<00:30:56.232> generating<00:30:56.569> huge<00:30:56.729> returns<00:30:57.115> from<00:30:57.275> those,<00:30:58.319> I<00:30:58.335> think<00:30:58.399> are<00:30:58.479> going<00:30:58.575> to<00:30:58.656> force<00:30:58.993> a<00:30:59.202> lot<00:30:59.378> of<00:30:59.442> VCs<00:30:59.844> to<00:30:59.940> be<00:31:00.004> like,<00:31:00.165> well,<00:31:00.293> maybe<00:31:00.486> I<00:31:00.502> should<00:31:00.662> be<00:31:00.727> looking<00:31:00.887> at<00:31:00.967> consumer<00:31:01.208> fintech<00:31:01.465> again.

00:31:02.428 --> 00:31:02.669
Yeah.

00:31:02.974 --> 00:31:03.231
Yeah.

00:31:04.258 --> 00:31:12.430
Finally,<00:31:04.628> because<00:31:04.756> I<00:31:04.836> want<00:31:04.949> to<00:31:04.997> be<00:31:05.061> respectful<00:31:05.495> of<00:31:05.543> your<00:31:05.639> time,<00:31:06.442> we<00:31:06.666> end<00:31:06.763> every<00:31:07.004> interview<00:31:07.228> with<00:31:07.325> the<00:31:07.405> same<00:31:07.646> question,<00:31:08.111> and<00:31:08.208> that<00:31:08.432> is<00:31:08.545> at<00:31:08.625> CEO.com,<00:31:09.331> we<00:31:09.492> believe<00:31:09.652> the<00:31:09.733> chances<00:31:10.134> one<00:31:10.375> gives<00:31:10.776> is<00:31:10.856> just<00:31:10.985> as<00:31:11.097> important<00:31:11.354> as<00:31:11.483> the<00:31:11.563> chances<00:31:11.900> one<00:31:12.060> takes.

00:31:13.024 --> 00:31:15.528
When<00:31:13.168> you<00:31:13.345> hear<00:31:13.505> that,<00:31:13.666> who<00:31:13.826> gave<00:31:14.003> you<00:31:14.115> a<00:31:14.147> chance<00:31:14.468> to<00:31:14.565> get<00:31:14.709> you<00:31:14.806> to<00:31:14.934> where<00:31:15.095> you<00:31:15.255> are<00:31:15.367> today?

00:31:16.860 --> 00:31:18.658
Oh,<00:31:17.133> that's<00:31:17.743> a<00:31:17.920> great<00:31:18.081> question.

00:31:20.469 --> 00:31:23.770
I<00:31:20.549> mean,<00:31:20.709> I<00:31:20.789> would<00:31:20.885> definitely<00:31:21.206> say<00:31:23.033> Alan<00:31:23.433> Patrykow.

00:31:23.866 --> 00:31:30.260
So<00:31:24.956> Alan<00:31:25.597> founded<00:31:25.997> Apex<00:31:26.398> Partners<00:31:27.055> and<00:31:27.135> then<00:31:27.872> started<00:31:28.241> Greycroft<00:31:28.801> almost<00:31:28.994> as<00:31:29.058> like<00:31:29.122> a<00:31:29.218> retirement<00:31:29.699> project.

00:31:31.445 --> 00:31:36.942
And<00:31:31.862> the<00:31:31.942> first<00:31:32.247> fund<00:31:32.567> was,<00:31:33.384> you<00:31:33.464> know,<00:31:33.625> raised<00:31:33.785> $75<00:31:34.266> million<00:31:34.650> just<00:31:34.891> from<00:31:35.051> a<00:31:35.452> lot<00:31:35.532> of<00:31:35.628> his<00:31:35.964> friends<00:31:36.285> and<00:31:36.429> contacts.

00:31:37.615 --> 00:31:40.659
And<00:31:37.695> I<00:31:37.807> met<00:31:38.031> him<00:31:38.753> when<00:31:38.897> I<00:31:38.913> was<00:31:39.073> leaving<00:31:39.313> Tenaya<00:31:39.570> and<00:31:39.698> coming<00:31:39.874> back<00:31:40.034> to<00:31:40.195> New<00:31:40.275> York.

00:31:41.461 --> 00:31:52.028
And<00:31:41.701> along<00:31:41.957> with<00:31:42.118> his<00:31:42.342> two<00:31:42.502> partners<00:31:42.855> at<00:31:42.903> that<00:31:43.063> time,<00:31:43.544> Ian<00:31:43.944> and<00:31:44.041> Dana,<00:31:45.227> And<00:31:45.532> yeah,<00:31:45.949> I<00:31:46.029> mean,<00:31:46.510> Alan<00:31:46.687> took<00:31:46.831> a<00:31:46.911> chance<00:31:47.248> on<00:31:47.408> me<00:31:49.012> at<00:31:49.093> the<00:31:49.253> end<00:31:49.494> of<00:31:49.654> 2011<00:31:50.536> when<00:31:50.697> we<00:31:50.857> decided<00:31:51.563> to<00:31:51.723> come<00:31:51.900> in.

00:31:52.541 --> 00:31:54.274
And<00:31:52.589> he<00:31:52.702> kind<00:31:52.878> of<00:31:52.942> put<00:31:53.087> me<00:31:53.183> initially<00:31:53.584> on<00:31:53.664> like<00:31:53.760> a<00:31:53.824> probation.

00:31:54.322 --> 00:31:59.535
It<00:31:54.370> was<00:31:54.466> sort<00:31:54.642> of<00:31:54.771> like,<00:31:55.573> you<00:31:55.621> know,<00:31:55.813> you're<00:31:55.910> hired,<00:31:56.311> but<00:31:56.471> like<00:31:56.696> you're<00:31:56.792> hired<00:31:56.952> at<00:31:57.016> this<00:31:57.177> lower<00:31:57.369> salary<00:31:57.834> for<00:31:57.899> this<00:31:58.075> period<00:31:58.252> of<00:31:58.300> time<00:31:58.636> and<00:31:58.701> we'll<00:31:58.877> see<00:31:58.957> how<00:31:59.054> it<00:31:59.198> goes.

00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:08.629
And<00:32:00.946> so<00:32:01.203> yeah,<00:32:01.347> he<00:32:01.508> really<00:32:01.828> wanted<00:32:02.085> me<00:32:02.181> to<00:32:02.310> kind<00:32:02.486> of<00:32:02.647> come<00:32:02.871> in<00:32:02.967> and<00:32:03.128> prove<00:32:03.352> myself,<00:32:03.769> but<00:32:03.914> also<00:32:04.812> he's<00:32:05.036> the<00:32:05.117> kind<00:32:05.293> of<00:32:05.373> person<00:32:05.774> that<00:32:05.999> really<00:32:07.619> pushes<00:32:07.956> you,<00:32:08.261> right?

00:32:08.966 --> 00:32:13.620
He<00:32:09.929> challenges<00:32:10.506> you,<00:32:10.747> he<00:32:10.987> tells<00:32:11.292> you<00:32:11.613> very<00:32:11.789> point<00:32:12.030> blank<00:32:12.335> like,<00:32:12.640> "Here,<00:32:12.880> you're<00:32:13.060> doing<00:32:13.061> this<00:32:13.260> wrong.

00:32:13.620 --> 00:32:15.340
You<00:32:13.621> didn't<00:32:13.720> ask<00:32:13.840> this<00:32:14.000> question,<00:32:14.400> or<00:32:14.460> you're<00:32:14.620> being<00:32:14.660> too<00:32:14.820> soft<00:32:15.120> here.

00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:21.750
You're<00:32:15.500> paying<00:32:15.580> too<00:32:15.740> much<00:32:15.840> for<00:32:15.960> this<00:32:16.080> deal."<00:32:16.820> It's<00:32:17.540> constant<00:32:17.940> real-time<00:32:18.360> feedback,<00:32:18.840> so<00:32:18.920> you<00:32:18.960> got<00:32:19.060> to<00:32:19.240> be<00:32:19.241> willing<00:32:19.500> to<00:32:20.460> roll<00:32:20.840> with<00:32:21.100> it.

00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:27.120
But<00:32:22.940> he<00:32:23.840> really,<00:32:24.080> I<00:32:24.180> think,<00:32:24.660> invested<00:32:24.940> that<00:32:25.400> time<00:32:25.700> and<00:32:25.840> effort<00:32:26.040> and<00:32:26.160> gave<00:32:26.300> me<00:32:26.460> a<00:32:26.620> shot.

00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:32.460
And<00:32:27.820> the<00:32:27.960> other<00:32:28.100> thing<00:32:28.180> with<00:32:28.360> Alan<00:32:28.600> and<00:32:28.740> the<00:32:28.800> way<00:32:28.940> that<00:32:29.560> he<00:32:29.680> ran<00:32:29.880> Greycroft<00:32:30.280> is<00:32:31.040> it's<00:32:31.500> really<00:32:31.740> sink<00:32:31.900> or<00:32:32.080> swim.

00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:34.160
He<00:32:32.461> lets<00:32:32.640> you<00:32:32.860> kind<00:32:33.020> of,<00:32:33.120> "Okay,<00:32:33.280> you<00:32:33.400> want<00:32:33.480> to<00:32:33.620> do<00:32:33.621> a<00:32:33.740> couple<00:32:33.860> deals?

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:38.100
Do<00:32:34.200> a<00:32:34.360> couple<00:32:34.440> deals."<00:32:34.720> But<00:32:34.860> if<00:32:35.440> your<00:32:35.700> name's<00:32:35.960> on<00:32:36.100> them,<00:32:36.600> they<00:32:36.720> don't<00:32:36.840> do<00:32:37.040> well,<00:32:37.180> then<00:32:37.320> that's<00:32:37.520> on<00:32:37.660> you,<00:32:37.840> right?

00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:42.222
That's<00:32:39.017> the<00:32:39.179> only<00:32:39.324> way<00:32:39.486> you<00:32:39.567> really<00:32:39.745> see<00:32:40.085> if<00:32:40.150> someone<00:32:40.555> can,<00:32:40.878> can<00:32:41.461> succeed<00:32:41.850> in<00:32:41.931> the<00:32:41.996> business.

00:32:43.614 --> 00:32:45.671
Cameron,<00:32:43.857> I<00:32:43.890> feel<00:32:44.068> like<00:32:44.197> we<00:32:44.278> should<00:32:44.440> check<00:32:44.683> in<00:32:44.748> with<00:32:44.845> you<00:32:44.942> like<00:32:45.104> every<00:32:45.331> month.

00:32:45.719 --> 00:32:47.403
This<00:32:45.897> is<00:32:46.561> super<00:32:46.885> insightful.

00:32:47.581 --> 00:32:49.101
Would<00:32:47.743> love<00:32:47.840> to<00:32:47.905> have<00:32:47.970> you<00:32:48.083> back,<00:32:48.729> honestly.

00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.885
Thanks<00:32:50.007> for<00:32:50.088> coming<00:32:50.346> on<00:32:50.815> and<00:32:51.559> congratulations<00:32:52.174> on<00:32:52.303> everything<00:32:52.610> you're<00:32:52.691> doing.

00:32:52.934 --> 00:32:54.162
Good<00:32:53.095> luck<00:32:53.257> in<00:32:53.338> 2025.

00:32:54.211 --> 00:32:55.230
And<00:32:54.453> thanks.

00:32:55.424 --> 00:32:55.731
You<00:32:55.521> too.

00:32:55.909 --> 00:32:57.235
Hoping<00:32:56.006> for<00:32:56.119> some<00:32:56.394> liquidity<00:32:56.798> exits<00:32:57.121> here.

00:32:57.299 --> 00:32:58.389
So<00:32:57.364> let's<00:32:57.607> all<00:32:57.689> fingers<00:32:58.014> crossed.

00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:00.603
Thanks,<00:32:59.984> Cameron.

00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.915
Yeah,<00:33:08.640> one<00:33:09.126> step<00:33:09.450> closer<00:33:10.162> to<00:33:10.810> the<00:33:11.134> heaven.

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.940
We<00:33:14.580> are<00:33:14.678> wobbly,<00:33:15.235> yes,<00:33:15.645> we<00:33:15.891> rule<00:33:16.055> our<00:33:16.645> own<00:33:17.284> domain.

00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:24.157
Yeah,<00:33:20.043> yeah,<00:33:20.612> keep<00:33:21.002> our<00:33:21.246> heads<00:33:21.587> up<00:33:21.750> high,<00:33:22.238> pushing<00:33:22.710> on<00:33:22.807> like<00:33:23.051> a<00:33:23.132> chugging<00:33:23.653> train.

00:33:26.260 --> 00:33:29.067
Loving<00:33:26.689> you<00:33:26.970> makes<00:33:27.201> the<00:33:27.432> world<00:33:27.779> spin<00:33:28.852> faster.

00:33:31.013 --> 00:33:32.760
Yeah,<00:33:31.731> ain't<00:33:32.139> enough<00:33:32.400> these.

```