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# ROC Investments CEO Dan Cooper: Allocating capital on the basis of character
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/the-power-of-character-focused-investing-interview-with-dan-cooper-of-roc-investments/
- Published: 2022-11-08T15:00:38.000Z
- Updated: 2026-09-03T20:46:41.000Z
- Description: Dan Cooper explains how his firm, ROC Investments, allocates capital based on measurable character traits like integrity, responsibility, forgiveness, and compassion — and shares data suggesting high-character CEOs significantly outperform their peers.
- Author: Clint Betts

# Dan Cooper wants to put a price on character

One day Dan Cooper typed a question into Google. Does anyone care about character anymore? The first result was [an article in Harvard Business Review](https://hbr.org/2015/04/measuring-the-return-on-character?ref=ceo.com) about a seven-year study saying yes, and by how much.

The study became a book, [Return on Character](https://store.hbr.org/product/return-on-character-the-real-reason-leaders-and-their-companies-win/16899?ref=ceo.com), published by Harvard Business Review Press in 2015\. Its author, Fred Kiel, co-founded the consulting firm KRW International and spent seven years studying more than 100 CEOs and 8,000 of their employees. He split the executives into "virtuosos" and "self-focused" and found the virtuosos delivered up to five times the return on assets. By Cooper's account, their companies also carried less debt, and their people were more engaged. Kiel [died in 2022](https://krw-intl.com/staff/fred-kiel/?ref=ceo.com).

Cooper called him. They partnered, and Kiel's four pillars, integrity, responsibility, forgiveness, and compassion, became the basis for ROC Investments, the Redding, California firm Cooper founded. In March 2022, ROC launched what its [announcement](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220324005096/en?ref=ceo.com) called the world's first ETF selecting companies solely on the behavior of their CEOs and executive teams. It traded on Cboe as ROCI. ROC stands for Return on Character.

"Organizations are all made up of humans," Cooper told the CEO.com Podcast. "A business is the essence of a large human organization." What ROC does, he said, is go around "picking up the shavings of gold that we think Wall Street tends to kind of throw on the floor."

The shavings are things like a CEO who owns mistakes instead of pointing fingers, or who gives credit away instead of taking it. Everyone in the business knows these people exist. Nobody prices them. "How does an analyst say, 'Oh, okay, well he should get a couple extra basis points because of that.' Well, they don't."

Cooper's answer starts with the Russell 1000\. The first cut runs CEO shareholder letters through a language model built with professors at the University of Virginia, Yale, Duke, and INSEAD that scans for word patterns correlated with behavioral integrity. Cooper said that when the method was run on the companies in Kiel's study, it flagged the same CEOs the book had. Then three independent reviewers go through Glassdoor, interviews, and earnings transcripts looking for the other three pillars. Cooper also calls people who know a sector and asks them things like who would put the company ahead of his own interest, and who is more humble than arrogant. Together, it produces a composite score, and the score decides who gets in. When a CEO leaves, ROC sells the stock. The next one has to earn the spot.

He had done a version of this before. Cooper joined Fox River Financial Resources in 1997, the Chicago firm founded by [Joe Ritchie](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/chicagotribune/name/joseph-ritchie-obituary?id=33399504&ref=ceo.com), the options trader who built Chicago Research and Trading in the 1970s. Ritchie was a Wheaton College philosophy student who worked as a Cook County jail guard before he found the trading pits. His obituary says he believed exceptional human capital was the rarest resource and that he intentionally sought out people of notable character. One day he said to Cooper: "Man, I wish I just knew who the good ones were in the market."

Cooper built a model to find them, and Ritchie put his own money behind it. The portfolio ran on character alone. Since it was one man's capital, the results never had to be reported to anyone, and Cooper said he still isn't at liberty to share the numbers. He will say that years later he ran a factor analysis on those returns and about 30 percent of the outperformance could be explained by conventional factors. The rest could not. He takes that residual to be the character factor. Readers should note this is a private track record with no public audit, and that Cooper himself calls it a confidence builder rather than proof.

The list of good CEOs turned out to be useful for more than a portfolio. In 2003 Ritchie partnered with Rwandan President Paul Kagame, and he went on to serve as [founding CEO of the Rwanda Development Board](https://www.newtimes.co.rw/news/joe-ritchie-american-businessman-dies-75?ref=ceo.com) and co-chair of Kagame's Presidential Advisory Council. Kagame wanted to meet American executives rather than Washington officials. Cooper started calling names off the character list and bringing a head of state to their headquarters. One of them, BNSF Railway CEO Matt Rose, offered to look at whether a rail line from Dar es Salaam to Kigali could pay for itself. Forty percent of the cost of everything shipped into Rwanda was transportation.

That became Cooper's life for roughly a decade. He founded UNITY Development Group in 2013 to build the railroad. He had Bechtel as construction manager, HDR on engineering, GE supplying locomotives and rolling stock, BNSF agreeing to mentor the new operating company, about $300 million lined up for launch, and expressions of interest from the Export-Import Bank for up to $6 billion. Then the Tanzanian government stopped talking to business. Cooper closed it down. "We didn't lose the deal because of corruption or because of China," he said. "It was really institutional capacity on the Tanzanian side that didn't seem to be there yet. And maybe I wasn't good at communicating what we were offering, I don't know."

He came home and went looking for something else worth doing. That was when he typed the question into Google.

The principal backer he found was [Bridgeway Capital Management](http://bridgeway.com/giving-back/?ref=ceo.com), the Houston quant firm John Montgomery founded in 1993\. Bridgeway [gives half its profits to charity](https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/why-bridgeway-capital-gives-away-half-of-its-profits-to-charity/?ref=ceo.com) and pays its top person no more than seven times its lowest. Bridgeway went through the old Fox River data before it signed on. Turning the strategy into an ETF was the point. Ritchie's version was only open to Ritchie. "Anybody can invest in character, not just the high net worth individuals," Cooper said.

Ritchie died in February 2022, a month before the fund listed. "He was the originator for allocating capital on the basis of character," Cooper said. "I like to think that we're kind of carrying on his legacy."

The rules exclude some famous names. Asked about Mark Zuckerberg, Cooper put him, along with Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs, in what he called the productive narcissist category. "As a rule and just as an orientation, we don't invest in productive narcissists," he said. "I don't think it's good to bet against a productive narcissist," he added, and if you want to bet on them, "we're not the place to go." He said character isn't fixed and he'd be glad to see Zuckerberg qualify someday. Still, the rule has a cost. It kept the fund out of some of the best-performing stocks of the last decade, and a character screen that misses Apple under Jobs will sometimes miss the money.

The names Cooper reaches for are Jim Sinegal at Costco, Tim Boyle at Columbia Sportswear, Matt Rose at BNSF, Herb Kelleher at Southwest. He said the screen also throws off traits he never designed for: lower beta than the Russell 1000, higher return on equity, less debt, more women CEOs, better ESG scores. The most controversial holding, by the standard ratings, was a taser company.

On ESG, he offered a phrase, "L plus ESG." Leadership first. "It's far better to have a leader that really believes in it than say a very well crafted website that explains why they're achieving all their ESG goals." He said the fund had been classified as ESG by some screeners, but he never thought of it that way.

The conversation took place eight months after launch. Cooper said the fund had held up on the way down and kept pace on the way up, and that market-cap weighting to the largest companies was deliberate, so that any outperformance would have to come from the leaders rather than a sector bet. He asked for patience. Character, he said, is a long-term bet.

The fund did not get the time. In October 2023, 19 months after it listed, the trust's board [voted to liquidate ROCI](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/roc-investments-llc-announces-etf-liquidation-de-listing-301954204.html?ref=ceo.com), citing a macroeconomic climate that had hurt its holdings and its ability to deliver on the mandate. Shareholders were cashed out at net asset value on October 27\. The firm's website has since gone dark and its domain is listed for sale. None of that settles whether Cooper was right. A fund with a few million dollars in it can close for reasons that have nothing to do with the idea behind it, and 19 months is not long enough to test a thesis built on decades. But the test he wanted to run in public never finished.

What he was after was never really the fund. "The big dream is that if we're able to show that these characteristics outperform the market over time, that it will start to inform the way leaders are chosen in American industry," he said. "Boards of directors will maybe start asking, 'Why isn't our CEO in the list?'"

That question is still worth asking. Nobody is keeping the list.

```chapters
00:00:00 What Return on Character Means
00:03:19 How ROC Measures CEO Character
00:10:41 Fund Performance and Character Factor
00:15:06 Lessons From Mentor Joe Ritchie
00:17:12 Character and Productive Narcissists Like Zuckerberg
00:19:58 Debating the Controversy Around ESG
00:24:12 Examples of High Character CEOs
00:25:34 Preparing Leaders for Tough Economic Times
00:28:20 Origins of the Character Investing Idea
00:33:42 Building a Railway From Dar Es Salaam
00:38:17 Dan Cooper's Hopes for His Legacy
```

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Dan,<00:00:10.066> thank<00:00:10.296> you<00:00:10.378> so<00:00:10.575> much<00:00:10.804> for<00:00:11.034> coming<00:00:11.378> on.

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Yeah.

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Integrity<00:03:41.477> is<00:03:42.697> one,<00:03:44.127> responsibility,<00:03:46.151> forgiveness,<00:03:46.873> and<00:03:46.954> compassion.

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And<00:03:48.656> so,<00:03:48.961> those<00:03:49.347> four<00:03:49.604> characteristics<00:03:50.792> were<00:03:50.953> the<00:03:51.033> four<00:03:51.290> characteristics<00:03:52.334> that<00:03:53.619> Fred<00:03:54.004> observed<00:03:55.129> in<00:03:56.751> his<00:03:56.911> CEOs<00:03:57.474> that<00:03:57.698> outperformed.

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And<00:03:59.883> so,<00:04:00.124> what<00:04:00.284> we<00:04:00.589> tend<00:04:00.782> to<00:04:00.911> do<00:04:01.328> is<00:04:01.553> we<00:04:01.649> focus<00:04:02.276> on<00:04:02.517> how<00:04:02.693> do<00:04:02.790> we<00:04:02.999> find<00:04:03.480> ways<00:04:03.818> to<00:04:04.059> measure<00:04:05.744> those<00:04:06.145> characteristics<00:04:07.670> in<00:04:07.750> today's<00:04:08.456> marketplace<00:04:09.596> and<00:04:09.933> in<00:04:11.377> CEOs<00:04:11.843> leading<00:04:12.083> companies<00:04:12.549> today.

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And<00:04:15.116> so,<00:04:15.518> part<00:04:15.758> of<00:04:15.855> the<00:04:15.935> way<00:04:16.160> you<00:04:16.320> do<00:04:16.497> it<00:04:16.801> is,<00:04:17.845> one,<00:04:18.101> there's<00:04:18.326> just<00:04:18.503> kind<00:04:18.727> of,<00:04:20.268> it's<00:04:20.428> important<00:04:20.781> that<00:04:20.910> people<00:04:21.167> understand<00:04:21.712> that<00:04:22.113> what's<00:04:22.418> funny<00:04:22.675> is<00:04:22.836> that<00:04:23.622> if<00:04:23.702> you<00:04:23.798> learn<00:04:23.975> about<00:04:24.216> a<00:04:24.280> CEO,<00:04:24.761> for<00:04:24.890> example,<00:04:25.323> Clint,<00:04:26.607> that<00:04:26.832> most<00:04:27.072> people<00:04:27.313> would<00:04:27.425> say,<00:04:27.634> "Hey,<00:04:27.811> that<00:04:28.051> company<00:04:28.436> would,<00:04:28.773> that<00:04:29.030> CEO<00:04:29.431> would<00:04:29.576> put<00:04:29.752> the<00:04:29.881> company<00:04:30.218> before<00:04:30.523> his<00:04:30.699> own<00:04:30.860> interest."<00:04:33.169> How<00:04:33.265> do<00:04:33.345> you<00:04:33.569> measure<00:04:33.890> that<00:04:34.371> and<00:04:35.669> how<00:04:35.829> do<00:04:35.894> you<00:04:36.070> value<00:04:36.471> that<00:04:36.807> in<00:04:36.935> a<00:04:36.951> portfolio<00:04:37.512> construction?

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Or<00:04:39.035> how<00:04:39.196> does<00:04:39.356> an<00:04:39.660> analyst<00:04:40.029> say,<00:04:40.462> "Oh,<00:04:40.654> okay,<00:04:40.863> well,<00:04:41.263> he<00:04:41.359> should<00:04:41.520> get<00:04:41.680> a<00:04:41.696> couple<00:04:42.001> extra<00:04:42.546> basis<00:04:42.882> points<00:04:43.203> because<00:04:43.507> of<00:04:43.539> that."<00:04:43.764> Well,<00:04:43.876> they<00:04:44.004> don't.

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And<00:04:46.729> so,<00:04:48.011> the<00:04:48.172> premise<00:04:48.573> of<00:04:48.653> this<00:04:48.877> whole<00:04:49.053> approach<00:04:49.695> is<00:04:49.839> that<00:04:50.720> that<00:04:51.698> kind<00:04:51.955> of<00:04:52.099> data<00:04:52.644> actually<00:04:53.125> really<00:04:53.317> matters.

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And<00:04:54.920> so,<00:04:55.160> if<00:04:55.305> you<00:04:55.369> have<00:04:55.529> a<00:04:55.561> CEO<00:04:56.106> that<00:04:56.266> has<00:04:56.427> a<00:04:56.507> reputation<00:04:57.212> for<00:04:57.613> owning<00:04:57.869> mistakes,<00:04:58.414> for<00:04:58.478> example,<00:04:59.713> when<00:04:59.873> things<00:05:00.114> go<00:05:00.274> bad,<00:05:00.675> they<00:05:00.772> don't<00:05:00.996> point<00:05:01.237> fingers,<00:05:02.119> they<00:05:02.263> actually<00:05:02.664> own<00:05:02.760> it.

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Or<00:05:04.364> when<00:05:04.508> things<00:05:04.749> go<00:05:04.925> good,<00:05:05.631> they<00:05:05.807> kind<00:05:06.064> of<00:05:06.208> give<00:05:06.368> credit<00:05:06.705> away<00:05:07.074> as<00:05:07.170> opposed<00:05:07.475> to<00:05:07.571> take<00:05:07.828> it.

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CEOs<00:05:09.640> that<00:05:09.736> tend<00:05:09.977> to<00:05:10.057> be<00:05:10.201> more<00:05:10.362> humble<00:05:11.019> than<00:05:11.164> they<00:05:11.324> are<00:05:11.484> arrogant,<00:05:12.206> those<00:05:12.446> kinds<00:05:12.767> of<00:05:13.248> characteristics,<00:05:15.109> if<00:05:15.253> you're<00:05:15.429> building<00:05:16.937> an<00:05:17.755> infinite-minded<00:05:18.541> organization<00:05:19.278> that's<00:05:19.503> looking<00:05:19.759> to<00:05:19.920> the<00:05:20.064> long<00:05:20.321> term<00:05:20.657> and<00:05:20.786> your<00:05:21.203> long-term<00:05:21.668> focus,<00:05:22.405> those<00:05:22.566> things<00:05:22.806> really,<00:05:23.047> really<00:05:23.288> matter.

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And<00:05:25.601> what<00:05:25.859> we're<00:05:26.020> doing<00:05:26.262> is<00:05:26.424> we're<00:05:26.569> taking<00:05:26.973> off,<00:05:27.554> we're<00:05:27.634> going<00:05:27.893> around<00:05:28.199> and<00:05:28.280> picking<00:05:28.619> up<00:05:28.764> the<00:05:28.845> shavings<00:05:29.313> of<00:05:29.410> gold<00:05:29.733> that<00:05:29.878> we<00:05:30.040> think<00:05:32.299> Wall<00:05:32.477> Street<00:05:32.880> tends<00:05:33.203> to<00:05:33.349> kind<00:05:33.462> of<00:05:33.591> throw<00:05:33.784> on<00:05:33.914> the<00:05:34.140> floor,<00:05:34.981> picking<00:05:35.288> up<00:05:35.402> those<00:05:35.563> shavings<00:05:36.033> of<00:05:36.113> gold<00:05:36.922> and<00:05:37.003> measuring<00:05:37.570> them<00:05:38.120> and<00:05:38.541> valuing<00:05:39.091> them,<00:05:39.350> quantifying<00:05:39.916> them,<00:05:40.256> and<00:05:40.644> informing<00:05:41.291> the<00:05:41.437> way<00:05:41.615> in<00:05:41.760> which<00:05:42.019> we<00:05:42.408> allocate<00:05:42.747> capital<00:05:43.120> into<00:05:43.313> the<00:05:43.394> public<00:05:43.781> markets.

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And<00:05:44.426> so,<00:05:45.249> we<00:05:45.395> do<00:05:45.556> it<00:05:46.121> in<00:05:46.169> multiple<00:05:46.701> different<00:05:47.024> ways.

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One<00:05:49.186> of<00:05:49.267> the<00:05:49.364> principal<00:05:49.832> ways<00:05:50.074> that<00:05:50.170> we<00:05:50.300> use<00:05:50.656> to—<00:05:50.802> we<00:05:50.867> are<00:05:51.061> Russell,<00:05:51.531> basically<00:05:51.693> the<00:05:51.726> largest<00:05:52.017> 1,000<00:05:53.346> American<00:05:53.962> companies,<00:05:54.303> largest<00:05:56.920> American<00:05:57.337> companies<00:05:57.914> is<00:05:58.059> our<00:05:58.235> universe.

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And<00:06:01.108> our<00:06:01.750> first<00:06:02.071> screen<00:06:02.424> is<00:06:02.969> using<00:06:03.290> a<00:06:03.370> behavioral<00:06:04.012> integrity<00:06:04.831> screen<00:06:06.002> using<00:06:06.724> artificial<00:06:07.510> intelligence<00:06:08.425> analysis<00:06:09.067> of<00:06:09.147> language.

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And<00:06:11.474> we<00:06:11.618> partnered<00:06:12.020> with<00:06:12.982> professors<00:06:13.624> from<00:06:13.865> the<00:06:13.945> University<00:06:14.363> of<00:06:14.427> Virginia,<00:06:15.325> Yale,<00:06:15.726> Duke,<00:06:16.673> and<00:06:16.850> INSEAD<00:06:17.427> in<00:06:17.636> France<00:06:18.053> who<00:06:18.134> developed<00:06:18.599> this<00:06:18.679> system<00:06:19.883> of<00:06:20.043> being<00:06:20.220> able<00:06:20.380> to<00:06:20.541> take<00:06:20.781> shareholder<00:06:21.263> letters<00:06:23.012> written<00:06:23.252> by<00:06:23.365> CEOs<00:06:24.616> and<00:06:24.857> gauge<00:06:25.274> the<00:06:25.498> degree<00:06:25.835> of<00:06:25.931> integrity<00:06:27.920> in<00:06:28.080> which<00:06:28.385> those<00:06:28.578> CEOs<00:06:29.187> played.

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And<00:06:30.165> so<00:06:30.390> we<00:06:30.630> actually<00:06:31.512> have<00:06:31.673> a<00:06:31.689> Lint<00:06:32.026> score<00:06:32.410> for<00:06:33.116> every<00:06:33.293> single<00:06:34.094> company.

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We<00:06:34.511> did<00:06:34.720> about<00:06:34.912> 700<00:06:36.805> companies<00:06:37.783> in<00:06:37.863> our<00:06:37.943> original<00:06:38.408> analysis,<00:06:39.467> took<00:06:39.707> the<00:06:40.654> lowest<00:06:41.632> Lint<00:06:41.856> score<00:06:42.979> correlation,<00:06:43.797> 'cause<00:06:44.102> lowest<00:06:44.599> the<00:06:44.679> best.

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And<00:06:45.802> then<00:06:46.106> we<00:06:46.283> went<00:06:46.828> and<00:06:47.806> reviewed<00:06:48.271> publicly<00:06:48.865> available<00:06:49.394> data<00:06:50.148> in<00:06:50.228> the<00:06:50.308> marketplace<00:06:50.998> like<00:06:51.239> Glassdoor<00:06:51.896> and<00:06:52.201> interviews<00:06:52.859> and<00:06:53.163> articles<00:06:53.821> and<00:06:55.329> transcripts<00:06:56.371> and<00:06:57.029> looked<00:06:57.269> for<00:06:57.414> markers<00:06:58.296> of<00:06:58.537> character<00:06:59.274> behavior<00:07:00.237> such<00:07:00.542> as<00:07:00.718> responsibility,<00:07:01.600> forgiveness,<00:07:02.178> and<00:07:02.322> compassion.

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And<00:07:03.830> we<00:07:03.926> did<00:07:04.151> this<00:07:04.407> with<00:07:04.632> 3<00:07:04.808> independent<00:07:05.674> individuals,<00:07:06.958> all<00:07:07.054> of<00:07:07.134> which<00:07:07.936> kind<00:07:08.096> of<00:07:08.160> came<00:07:08.401> to<00:07:08.497> their<00:07:08.658> own<00:07:08.818> conclusions,<00:07:09.556> and<00:07:09.700> then<00:07:09.861> the<00:07:10.005> composite<00:07:11.128> character<00:07:11.545> scores<00:07:12.587> ends<00:07:12.748> up<00:07:12.908> being<00:07:13.069> what<00:07:13.293> we,<00:07:13.951> we<00:07:14.175> use<00:07:14.448> as<00:07:14.657> our<00:07:15.475> final<00:07:15.795> determinant<00:07:16.421> for<00:07:16.581> who<00:07:16.822> ends<00:07:17.014> up<00:07:17.175> in<00:07:17.239> the<00:07:17.319> portfolio.

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Who<00:07:18.763> doesn't.

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I<00:07:19.727> also<00:07:20.032> conduct<00:07:20.433> behavior-based<00:07:21.156> interviews.

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And<00:07:23.099> behavior-based<00:07:23.725> interviews<00:07:24.287> are<00:07:25.170> basically<00:07:25.732> interviews<00:07:26.214> where<00:07:26.695> you<00:07:26.727> are<00:07:26.856> trying<00:07:27.193> to<00:07:27.354> determine<00:07:27.900> if<00:07:27.996> a<00:07:28.076> candidate<00:07:30.067> fits<00:07:30.260> a<00:07:30.308> certain<00:07:30.709> criteria<00:07:31.673> through<00:07:31.833> an<00:07:31.930> interview<00:07:32.331> process,<00:07:33.439> and<00:07:33.600> it<00:07:33.921> disciplines<00:07:34.579> it<00:07:35.125> into<00:07:35.542> a<00:07:35.687> kind<00:07:35.864> of<00:07:35.944> quantitative<00:07:36.570> outcome.

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And<00:07:38.031> so<00:07:38.272> I<00:07:38.433> speak<00:07:38.738> with<00:07:38.834> people<00:07:39.316> familiar<00:07:39.781> with<00:07:39.830> certain<00:07:40.135> sectors<00:07:40.600> and<00:07:40.745> industries,<00:07:41.339> and<00:07:41.483> I<00:07:41.564> ask<00:07:41.869> questions<00:07:42.367> like,<00:07:43.009> you<00:07:43.089> know,<00:07:43.780> Who<00:07:43.892> would<00:07:44.036> put<00:07:44.213> the<00:07:44.293> company<00:07:44.678> before<00:07:44.999> their<00:07:45.176> own<00:07:45.320> interests?

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Or<00:07:47.486> what<00:07:47.663> CEOs<00:07:48.545> in<00:07:48.626> the<00:07:48.722> sector<00:07:49.107> that<00:07:49.332> you<00:07:49.428> know<00:07:49.733> of<00:07:50.230> tend<00:07:50.375> to<00:07:50.407> be<00:07:50.551> more<00:07:50.712> humble<00:07:51.033> than<00:07:51.193> they<00:07:51.418> are<00:07:51.819> arrogant?

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We<00:07:53.921> have<00:07:54.017> a<00:07:54.082> series<00:07:54.483> of<00:07:54.563> different<00:07:54.868> questions<00:07:55.365> which<00:07:55.670> also<00:07:56.392> ends<00:07:56.649> up<00:07:56.826> informing<00:07:57.355> our<00:07:57.451> character<00:07:58.093> portfolio.

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So<00:08:00.260> we<00:08:00.404> try<00:08:00.581> to<00:08:00.661> come<00:08:00.966> at<00:08:01.158> the<00:08:01.287> question<00:08:01.704> in<00:08:01.784> multiple<00:08:02.250> different<00:08:02.586> ways<00:08:02.988> and<00:08:03.132> use<00:08:03.309> the<00:08:03.453> different<00:08:03.710> data<00:08:03.967> sources<00:08:04.432> to<00:08:04.512> confirm<00:08:04.994> one<00:08:05.170> another,<00:08:06.261> which<00:08:06.502> informs<00:08:07.240> our<00:08:07.465> confidence<00:08:08.444> that<00:08:09.246> a<00:08:09.310> CEO's<00:08:10.032> character<00:08:10.369> habits<00:08:11.412> are<00:08:11.573> trending<00:08:12.151> in<00:08:12.280> the<00:08:12.376> direction<00:08:12.858> that<00:08:13.018> we're<00:08:13.339> looking<00:08:14.945> to<00:08:15.427> invest<00:08:15.844> in.

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I<00:08:16.342> don't<00:08:16.486> know<00:08:16.535> if<00:08:16.695> that<00:08:16.856> helps<00:08:17.097> you.

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It's<00:08:17.739> a<00:08:17.819> little<00:08:17.996> bit<00:08:18.156> complicated,<00:08:18.782> but<00:08:18.879> that's<00:08:19.120> the<00:08:19.264> process.

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No,<00:08:20.484> it's<00:08:20.645> amazing.

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I<00:08:21.111> want<00:08:21.191> to<00:08:21.271> go<00:08:21.592> a<00:08:21.624> little<00:08:21.785> bit<00:08:21.930> deeper<00:08:22.154> on<00:08:22.235> this<00:08:22.411> investor<00:08:22.893> letter.

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What<00:08:23.359> exactly<00:08:23.744> are<00:08:23.840> you<00:08:24.001> looking<00:08:24.338> for<00:08:25.045> in<00:08:25.382> the<00:08:25.607> letters<00:08:26.024> that<00:08:26.249> show<00:08:26.650> that<00:08:26.811> they<00:08:26.987> have<00:08:28.497> high<00:08:28.818> character<00:08:29.203> or<00:08:29.637> strong<00:08:30.038> character<00:08:30.664> versus<00:08:31.965> maybe<00:08:32.286> someone<00:08:32.591> who<00:08:32.768> isn't?

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What<00:08:33.555> are<00:08:33.651> we<00:08:33.811> looking<00:08:34.117> for<00:08:34.293> in<00:08:34.373> there<00:08:35.353> specifically?

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It's<00:08:39.503> informed<00:08:39.988> by<00:08:40.618> a<00:08:41.119> behavioral<00:08:43.398> integrity<00:08:44.432> dictionary<00:08:45.708> that<00:08:46.031> has<00:08:46.371> been<00:08:47.421> correlated<00:08:48.229> to<00:08:48.956> language<00:08:49.845> that<00:08:50.232> correlates<00:08:50.814> to<00:08:51.056> integrity.

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And<00:08:52.527> so<00:08:52.834> what<00:08:52.995> we're<00:08:53.238> doing<00:08:53.561> is<00:08:53.706> we're<00:08:53.868> scanning<00:08:54.611> for<00:08:54.854> certain<00:08:56.375> language<00:08:56.796> profiles<00:08:58.740> in<00:08:58.983> these<00:08:59.372> shareholder<00:08:59.874> letters<00:09:00.360> that<00:09:00.587> have<00:09:00.846> proven<00:09:01.170> to<00:09:01.332> be<00:09:01.494> scientifically<00:09:02.207> correlated<00:09:02.855> to<00:09:03.033> integrity.

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And<00:09:04.744> what's<00:09:04.984> interesting<00:09:05.545> about<00:09:06.026> this<00:09:06.347> process<00:09:07.213> that<00:09:07.389> these<00:09:07.549> professors<00:09:08.656> used,<00:09:09.057> that<00:09:09.233> we<00:09:09.377> use<00:09:09.778> with<00:09:10.035> them,<00:09:10.900> is<00:09:11.141> that<00:09:11.718> the<00:09:11.878> book<00:09:12.343> Return<00:09:12.760> on<00:09:12.985> Character<00:09:14.844> went<00:09:15.165> through<00:09:15.486> and<00:09:16.047> they<00:09:16.191> had<00:09:16.287> over<00:09:16.448> 84<00:09:16.929> companies<00:09:18.612> in<00:09:18.756> their<00:09:18.933> analysis<00:09:20.119> and<00:09:21.177> in<00:09:21.257> their<00:09:21.418> study.

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This<00:09:22.684> process<00:09:23.823> that<00:09:24.368> using<00:09:24.688> behavioral<00:09:25.506> artificial<00:09:25.971> intelligence<00:09:26.468> reviews<00:09:27.270> of<00:09:27.350> shareholder<00:09:27.831> letters<00:09:28.953> identified<00:09:29.578> the<00:09:29.659> same<00:09:30.076> high-character<00:09:30.733> CEOs<00:09:31.663> that<00:09:31.823> the<00:09:31.903> book<00:09:32.224> identified.

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And<00:09:33.619> so<00:09:34.165> that's<00:09:34.550> where<00:09:34.871> we<00:09:35.272> formed<00:09:35.513> a<00:09:35.593> high<00:09:35.850> degree<00:09:36.155> of<00:09:36.316> confidence<00:09:37.134> in<00:09:37.198> this<00:09:37.375> ability<00:09:37.776> to<00:09:37.920> provide<00:09:38.273> an<00:09:38.578> early<00:09:38.980> screen<00:09:39.702> of<00:09:39.782> saying,<00:09:40.087> okay,<00:09:41.050> this<00:09:41.307> system<00:09:41.933> really<00:09:42.205> does<00:09:42.655> help<00:09:43.056> us<00:09:44.757> identify<00:09:45.704> and<00:09:45.864> cull<00:09:46.201> the<00:09:46.362> herd,<00:09:46.699> if<00:09:46.843> you<00:09:46.988> will,<00:09:47.806> of<00:09:47.967> leaders<00:09:48.288> that<00:09:48.432> we<00:09:48.529> think<00:09:48.769> do<00:09:48.994> fit<00:09:49.154> our<00:09:49.315> profile.

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And<00:09:51.337> but<00:09:51.498> it's<00:09:51.658> informed<00:09:51.979> by<00:09:52.204> a<00:09:52.300> dictionary<00:09:52.862> that's<00:09:53.086> been<00:09:53.263> developed<00:09:54.627> together<00:09:55.012> with<00:09:55.173> these<00:09:55.349> professors<00:09:57.195> that<00:09:57.740> has<00:09:57.997> been<00:09:58.142> also—<00:09:58.318> there's<00:09:58.864> a<00:09:58.896> whole<00:09:59.747> kind<00:09:59.924> of<00:10:00.004> a<00:10:00.068> science<00:10:00.727> behind<00:10:01.273> behavioral<00:10:01.755> integrity<00:10:02.960> that<00:10:03.442> I<00:10:03.475> can<00:10:03.844> forward<00:10:04.117> you<00:10:04.246> the<00:10:04.342> paper<00:10:04.648> if<00:10:04.744> you'd<00:10:04.889> like<00:10:05.081> at<00:10:05.226> some<00:10:05.451> point.

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No,<00:10:06.174> yeah,<00:10:06.270> that's<00:10:06.431> super<00:10:06.833> interesting.

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Have<00:10:07.411> you<00:10:07.475> ever<00:10:07.797> applied<00:10:08.359> this<00:10:08.520> to<00:10:08.761> the<00:10:08.841> Fed<00:10:09.307> or<00:10:09.403> the<00:10:09.869> SEC?

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Well,<00:10:12.858> the<00:10:12.938> big<00:10:13.179> dream<00:10:14.288> is<00:10:14.947> to<00:10:15.413> someday<00:10:15.830> be<00:10:16.007> able<00:10:16.168> to<00:10:16.377> turn<00:10:16.955> what<00:10:17.116> we<00:10:17.277> learn<00:10:17.839> in<00:10:17.903> the<00:10:18.000> markets<00:10:18.498> and<00:10:18.707> being<00:10:18.883> able<00:10:19.124> to<00:10:19.285> analyze<00:10:19.928> and<00:10:20.410> tease<00:10:20.715> out<00:10:20.811> this<00:10:21.036> understanding<00:10:21.775> towards<00:10:22.081> politics.

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I<00:10:23.720> mean,<00:10:24.009> wouldn't<00:10:24.153> it<00:10:24.186> be<00:10:24.346> great<00:10:24.587> to<00:10:24.748> know<00:10:28.230> who<00:10:28.376> the<00:10:28.457> high-character<00:10:29.510> leaders<00:10:29.915> are<00:10:30.401> in<00:10:30.806> whether<00:10:31.081> it<00:10:31.146> be<00:10:31.373> our<00:10:31.535> country<00:10:31.875> or<00:10:32.021> others.

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I<00:10:33.233> think<00:10:33.476> there's<00:10:33.703> a<00:10:33.784> lot<00:10:34.028> we<00:10:34.125> can<00:10:34.287> learn,<00:10:35.730> but<00:10:35.828> that's<00:10:36.314> later<00:10:36.558> on<00:10:36.720> down<00:10:36.882> the<00:10:36.963> road.

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It'd<00:10:37.531> be<00:10:37.612> fun<00:10:37.855> to<00:10:37.936> do<00:10:38.179> that.

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That<00:10:39.331> would<00:10:39.461> be<00:10:39.558> more<00:10:39.785> of<00:10:39.882> a<00:10:39.963> public<00:10:40.304> service.

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What's<00:10:41.771> the<00:10:41.868> return<00:10:42.255> been<00:10:43.369> as<00:10:43.837> you've<00:10:44.337> been<00:10:44.498> following<00:10:44.917> this<00:10:45.079> process<00:10:45.563> and<00:10:45.643> doing<00:10:45.885> that?

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I<00:10:46.224> mean,<00:10:47.483> how<00:10:47.579> has<00:10:47.741> the<00:10:47.838> strategy<00:10:48.305> been<00:10:48.451> working?

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We<00:10:50.080> started<00:10:50.601> in<00:10:50.769> March.

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And<00:10:52.245> we<00:10:52.716> have<00:10:52.894> been<00:10:53.689> outperforming<00:10:54.500> on<00:10:54.597> the<00:10:54.744> downside<00:10:55.409> and<00:10:55.555> outperforming<00:10:56.366> on<00:10:56.463> the<00:10:56.609> upside.

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So,<00:10:58.302> we're<00:10:58.382> market-cap<00:10:59.186> weighted,<00:10:59.829> Clint,<00:11:00.231> to<00:11:01.196> the<00:11:01.340> largest<00:11:01.823> American<00:11:02.305> companies.

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And<00:11:03.061> so,<00:11:03.446> the<00:11:03.527> way<00:11:03.752> we<00:11:03.832> designed<00:11:04.234> the<00:11:04.331> portfolio<00:11:05.295> is<00:11:05.536> we<00:11:05.938> really<00:11:06.244> wanted<00:11:06.630> to<00:11:08.683> be<00:11:08.910> able<00:11:09.152> to<00:11:09.492> attribute<00:11:10.042> any<00:11:10.284> outperformance<00:11:11.012> that<00:11:11.109> we<00:11:11.335> get<00:11:12.306> to<00:11:12.791> this<00:11:12.969> character<00:11:13.308> factor,<00:11:13.777> as<00:11:13.874> opposed<00:11:14.181> to<00:11:14.327> say,<00:11:14.569> "Oh,<00:11:14.828> oil<00:11:15.055> and<00:11:15.135> gas<00:11:15.394> sector<00:11:15.701> went<00:11:15.944> really<00:11:16.090> well.

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You<00:11:16.543> overweighted."<00:11:17.858> oil<00:11:18.002> and<00:11:18.162> gas,<00:11:18.563> and<00:11:18.868> you<00:11:18.900> had<00:11:19.028> a<00:11:19.044> lot<00:11:19.204> of<00:11:19.284> character<00:11:19.621> CEOs<00:11:20.166> in<00:11:20.230> that<00:11:20.423> sector.

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So<00:11:21.032> that's<00:11:21.208> why<00:11:21.432> you<00:11:21.513> outperformed.

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Our<00:11:24.414> orientation<00:11:25.151> is<00:11:25.456> to<00:11:25.776> provide<00:11:28.020> the<00:11:28.100> same<00:11:28.373> level<00:11:28.645> of<00:11:28.806> risk<00:11:29.767> as<00:11:29.864> you<00:11:30.008> would<00:11:30.200> if<00:11:30.328> you<00:11:30.489> were<00:11:30.521> to<00:11:30.665> buy<00:11:30.890> the<00:11:30.970> market.

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And<00:11:32.172> we're<00:11:32.332> a<00:11:32.412> little<00:11:32.589> bit,<00:11:32.813> we<00:11:32.845> have<00:11:32.989> a<00:11:33.069> lower<00:11:33.390> beta<00:11:33.711> than<00:11:34.175> the<00:11:34.753> Russell<00:11:35.073> 1000<00:11:35.698> right<00:11:35.939> now,<00:11:36.676> but<00:11:36.836> then<00:11:37.061> also<00:11:37.397> still<00:11:37.702> be<00:11:37.798> able<00:11:37.958> to<00:11:38.038> provide<00:11:39.481> a<00:11:39.625> cushion<00:11:39.962> on<00:11:40.042> the<00:11:40.186> downside<00:11:40.828> and<00:11:40.940> a<00:11:41.068> cushion<00:11:41.389> on<00:11:41.485> the<00:11:41.629> upside<00:11:42.527> for<00:11:43.633> additional<00:11:44.049> performance<00:11:44.594> over<00:11:44.771> time.

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I<00:11:46.697> did<00:11:46.857> this<00:11:47.098> once<00:11:47.403> before<00:11:47.805> because<00:11:48.607> I<00:11:48.768> had<00:11:49.009> a—<00:11:50.149> my<00:11:50.309> mentor<00:11:50.647> and<00:11:51.273> I,<00:11:51.771> I<00:11:52.076> worked<00:11:52.236> for<00:11:52.333> a<00:11:52.381> guy<00:11:52.493> named<00:11:52.718> Joe<00:11:52.943> Ricci<00:11:53.184> out<00:11:53.216> of<00:11:53.280> Chicago<00:11:53.746> in<00:11:53.826> the<00:11:53.922> early<00:11:54.083> 2000s.

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And<00:11:56.395> I<00:11:56.828> developed<00:11:57.278> a<00:11:57.294> whole<00:11:57.519> character<00:11:57.936> investment<00:11:58.338> strategy<00:11:59.044> then,<00:11:59.943> but<00:12:00.040> we<00:12:00.184> only<00:12:00.409> allocated<00:12:00.891> capital<00:12:01.372> purely<00:12:02.336> on<00:12:02.496> the<00:12:02.593> basis<00:12:03.139> of<00:12:04.825> the<00:12:04.905> CEO<00:12:05.322> character,<00:12:05.884> but<00:12:06.029> we<00:12:06.205> only<00:12:06.446> used<00:12:06.623> his<00:12:06.832> money.

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And<00:12:08.116> he<00:12:08.213> was<00:12:08.309> a<00:12:08.373> very,<00:12:08.614> very<00:12:08.855> wealthy<00:12:09.176> man.

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We<00:12:11.663> were<00:12:11.824> able<00:12:12.048> to<00:12:12.144> do<00:12:12.385> that<00:12:12.786> and<00:12:12.866> we<00:12:13.010> weren't<00:12:13.251> able<00:12:13.347> to<00:12:13.491> take<00:12:13.732> outside<00:12:14.132> money.

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But<00:12:15.575> that<00:12:16.072> process<00:12:16.938> that<00:12:17.115> I<00:12:17.275> did<00:12:17.499> 20<00:12:17.820> years<00:12:18.060> ago<00:12:18.654> informed<00:12:19.519> a<00:12:19.600> lot<00:12:19.824> of<00:12:19.904> what<00:12:19.984> we're<00:12:20.161> doing<00:12:20.385> today.

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And<00:12:21.443> we<00:12:21.588> also<00:12:21.908> had<00:12:22.021> the<00:12:22.149> benefit<00:12:22.550> of<00:12:22.646> being<00:12:22.806> able<00:12:22.950> to<00:12:23.047> look<00:12:23.271> back<00:12:23.512> and<00:12:23.592> see<00:12:23.752> how<00:12:23.928> that<00:12:24.169> performed<00:12:25.307> 20<00:12:25.596> years<00:12:25.852> ago<00:12:26.574> and<00:12:26.638> how<00:12:26.750> it<00:12:26.959> would<00:12:27.055> have<00:12:27.135> performed<00:12:27.680> for<00:12:27.760> 20<00:12:28.081> years<00:12:28.337> if<00:12:28.418> we<00:12:28.514> had<00:12:28.658> continued.

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And<00:12:30.181> the<00:12:30.646> performance<00:12:31.688> really<00:12:32.025> gave<00:12:32.266> us<00:12:32.314> a<00:12:32.410> lot<00:12:32.522> of<00:12:32.586> confidence<00:12:33.227> that<00:12:33.789> we<00:12:33.885> found<00:12:35.552> an<00:12:35.697> inefficiency<00:12:36.434> in<00:12:36.514> the<00:12:36.594> market<00:12:36.995> here<00:12:37.236> that<00:12:38.342> is<00:12:38.518> worth<00:12:39.400> pursuing.

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The<00:12:41.246> performance<00:12:42.033> of<00:12:42.210> that<00:12:42.451> strategy,<00:12:43.414> I<00:12:43.559> don't<00:12:43.800> think<00:12:43.912> I'm<00:12:44.057> allowed<00:12:45.101> to<00:12:45.181> go<00:12:45.422> into<00:12:45.663> the<00:12:45.823> details<00:12:47.108> of<00:12:47.189> how<00:12:47.430> much<00:12:47.671> performance,<00:12:48.474> but<00:12:50.963> we<00:12:51.108> did<00:12:51.284> a<00:12:51.429> factor<00:12:51.830> analysis<00:12:52.328> and<00:12:52.634> analyzed<00:12:53.067> it.

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You<00:12:53.854> know,<00:12:55.364> 30%<00:12:55.701> of<00:12:56.023> the<00:12:56.103> performance,<00:12:57.452> outperformance<00:12:58.175> that<00:12:58.335> we<00:12:58.657> were<00:12:58.753> able<00:12:59.058> to<00:12:59.138> identify<00:13:00.825> was<00:13:01.002> attributed<00:13:01.548> to<00:13:01.789> traditional<00:13:02.287> factors<00:13:02.833> that<00:13:02.913> could<00:13:03.090> be<00:13:03.186> explained.

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70%<00:13:05.097> was<00:13:05.338> not<00:13:05.515> attributable.

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In<00:13:06.688> other<00:13:06.848> words,<00:13:09.178> there<00:13:09.275> wasn't<00:13:09.580> an<00:13:09.741> explanation<00:13:10.480> for<00:13:10.801> it.

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And<00:13:11.685> we<00:13:11.846> think<00:13:12.071> we<00:13:12.730> stumbled<00:13:13.196> onto<00:13:13.613> kind<00:13:13.790> of<00:13:13.935> the<00:13:14.095> character<00:13:14.497> factor<00:13:14.883> or<00:13:14.995> the<00:13:15.140> leadership<00:13:15.558> factor<00:13:16.653> as<00:13:16.749> a<00:13:16.814> contributing<00:13:17.377> factor<00:13:17.877> in<00:13:18.279> the<00:13:18.360> performance<00:13:18.843> of<00:13:18.939> a<00:13:19.004> company.

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And<00:13:21.339> this<00:13:21.661> data,<00:13:22.208> along<00:13:22.530> with<00:13:22.611> the<00:13:22.788> book,<00:13:23.432> Return<00:13:23.754> on<00:13:23.915> Character,<00:13:25.030> really<00:13:25.294> informed<00:13:25.872> us<00:13:26.136> in<00:13:26.367> how<00:13:26.565> we<00:13:26.714> created<00:13:27.127> this<00:13:27.209> strategy.

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And<00:13:29.695> then<00:13:30.022> the<00:13:30.283> other<00:13:30.463> side<00:13:30.790> of<00:13:30.938> it<00:13:31.085> too<00:13:31.265> is<00:13:31.444> that,<00:13:31.739> look,<00:13:34.675> The<00:13:34.837> idea<00:13:35.178> of<00:13:35.259> being<00:13:35.421> able<00:13:35.583> to<00:13:36.230> give<00:13:36.473> people<00:13:36.862> a<00:13:36.878> choice<00:13:37.364> now.

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So,<00:13:38.498> instead<00:13:38.984> of<00:13:39.243> just<00:13:39.535> buying<00:13:39.794> the<00:13:39.875> market,<00:13:41.100> you<00:13:41.197> can<00:13:41.375> now<00:13:41.538> buy<00:13:41.846> the<00:13:41.911> market<00:13:42.349> but<00:13:42.836> only<00:13:43.080> buy<00:13:43.242> companies<00:13:43.810> that<00:13:43.956> have<00:13:44.053> been<00:13:44.232> scrubbed<00:13:44.768> for<00:13:44.849> integrity,<00:13:46.376> responsibility,<00:13:47.115> forgiveness,<00:13:47.838> and<00:13:47.983> compassion.

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And<00:13:52.483> most<00:13:52.676> of<00:13:52.804> us,<00:13:52.901> when<00:13:52.981> you<00:13:53.142> think<00:13:53.319> about<00:13:53.544> buying<00:13:53.769> the<00:13:53.865> market,<00:13:54.251> you<00:13:54.299> don't<00:13:54.428> think<00:13:54.588> that<00:13:54.733> you're<00:13:54.910> affirming<00:13:55.452> kind<00:13:55.681> of<00:13:56.351> all<00:13:56.514> of<00:13:56.662> it<00:13:57.005> in<00:13:57.315> both<00:13:57.577> good<00:13:57.740> and<00:13:57.904> bad.

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You<00:13:59.714> can<00:13:59.859> now<00:14:00.196> buy<00:14:00.420> the<00:14:00.452> market<00:14:00.853> and<00:14:00.982> try<00:14:01.158> to<00:14:01.222> affirm<00:14:02.121> the<00:14:02.281> good<00:14:02.602> because<00:14:02.907> we<00:14:03.067> think<00:14:03.709> culture<00:14:04.447> and<00:14:05.073> ultimately<00:14:06.212> the<00:14:06.292> way<00:14:06.533> people<00:14:07.672> treat<00:14:08.201> each<00:14:08.603> other<00:14:09.341> not<00:14:09.565> only<00:14:09.742> contributes<00:14:10.367> to<00:14:10.528> the<00:14:10.608> success<00:14:11.346> of<00:14:11.506> a<00:14:11.571> company<00:14:12.052> long-term<00:14:13.111> and<00:14:13.207> employees<00:14:14.539> really<00:14:14.795> wanting<00:14:15.036> to<00:14:15.116> work<00:14:15.421> hard<00:14:16.464> and<00:14:17.186> contribute<00:14:17.603> to<00:14:17.844> the<00:14:18.101> organization,<00:14:19.609> but<00:14:19.753> also<00:14:19.994> affects<00:14:20.491> communities.

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You<00:14:21.550> know,<00:14:21.855> I<00:14:21.935> mean,<00:14:22.561> Clinton,<00:14:22.962> have<00:14:23.058> you<00:14:23.202> ever<00:14:23.283> had<00:14:23.395> a<00:14:23.443> bad<00:14:23.700> boss?

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Yeah,<00:14:25.701> yeah,<00:14:25.944> yeah.

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You<00:14:27.272> know<00:14:27.418> how<00:14:27.515> it<00:14:27.580> makes<00:14:27.807> you<00:14:27.888> feel,<00:14:28.147> right?

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You<00:14:29.054> know<00:14:29.184> how<00:14:29.362> it<00:14:29.524> makes<00:14:29.750> you<00:14:29.831> feel<00:14:30.010> when<00:14:30.155> you<00:14:30.236> go<00:14:30.398> home<00:14:30.819> and<00:14:31.532> how<00:14:31.694> you<00:14:31.953> greet<00:14:32.099> your<00:14:32.277> family<00:14:33.085> or<00:14:33.182> your<00:14:33.392> friends.

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And<00:14:35.424> those<00:14:35.666> things<00:14:35.908> matter,<00:14:36.376> especially<00:14:36.957> when<00:14:37.102> you<00:14:37.183> imagine<00:14:37.763> big<00:14:38.021> organizations<00:14:38.876> with<00:14:39.118> thousands<00:14:39.554> of<00:14:39.699> people<00:14:40.103> and<00:14:40.248> the<00:14:40.328> ripple<00:14:40.586> effect.

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And<00:14:43.476> so<00:14:44.428> even<00:14:44.589> if<00:14:44.670> you<00:14:44.767> didn't<00:14:45.009> believe<00:14:45.332> in<00:14:45.412> character,<00:14:46.606> we<00:14:46.768> think<00:14:47.010> that<00:14:47.268> there's<00:14:47.913> a<00:14:47.994> value<00:14:48.704> for<00:14:48.962> it<00:14:50.656> from<00:14:50.834> a<00:14:50.979> pure<00:14:51.304> alpha<00:14:51.911> drive.

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Driving<00:14:52.874> perspective.

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But<00:14:54.266> if<00:14:54.346> you<00:14:54.476> do<00:14:54.654> believe<00:14:54.977> in<00:14:55.058> character<00:14:55.867> and<00:14:55.932> you<00:14:56.109> think<00:14:56.271> it<00:14:56.417> matters<00:14:56.756> in<00:14:56.902> the<00:14:56.983> world<00:14:57.258> and<00:14:57.387> we<00:14:57.420> need<00:14:57.646> to<00:14:57.727> find<00:14:57.970> a<00:14:58.034> way<00:14:58.196> to<00:14:58.277> affirm<00:14:58.697> it,<00:15:01.560> this<00:15:01.738> is<00:15:01.835> a<00:15:01.899> way<00:15:02.061> to<00:15:02.223> do<00:15:02.465> it.

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And<00:15:03.096> it's<00:15:03.274> the<00:15:03.435> first<00:15:03.855> of<00:15:04.017> its<00:15:04.163> kind,<00:15:04.502> I<00:15:04.632> believe.

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You<00:15:06.345> mentioned<00:15:06.669> Joe<00:15:06.911> Ritchie,<00:15:07.218> who's<00:15:07.396> like<00:15:07.622> this<00:15:07.881> famed<00:15:08.301> investor.

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What<00:15:09.352> did<00:15:09.579> you<00:15:09.740> learn<00:15:09.999> from<00:15:10.225> him?

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Joe<00:15:13.681> was—<00:15:14.491> I<00:15:14.653> got<00:15:15.236> lucky<00:15:17.262> enough<00:15:17.651> to<00:15:19.448> to<00:15:19.609> walk<00:15:19.850> by<00:15:19.947> his<00:15:20.107> side<00:15:20.509> for<00:15:20.734> 12<00:15:21.072> years.

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He<00:15:22.519> and<00:15:23.306> I<00:15:24.512> got<00:15:25.251> to<00:15:25.477> go<00:15:25.653> on<00:15:25.734> a<00:15:25.814> lot<00:15:25.991> of<00:15:26.120> great<00:15:26.312> adventures<00:15:26.859> together.

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And<00:15:28.331> for<00:15:28.509> me,<00:15:28.832> the<00:15:28.994> greatest<00:15:29.560> thing<00:15:29.787> that<00:15:29.965> he<00:15:30.127> taught<00:15:30.450> me<00:15:30.774> was<00:15:31.097> that<00:15:33.055> it's<00:15:33.265> almost<00:15:33.524> like<00:15:33.750> the<00:15:33.831> hacking<00:15:34.349> of<00:15:34.478> the<00:15:34.640> line<00:15:36.112> that<00:15:36.419> there's<00:15:36.597> a<00:15:36.678> difference<00:15:37.002> between<00:15:37.651> impact<00:15:38.447> and<00:15:38.544> investing.

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You<00:15:39.859> know,<00:15:40.086> like,<00:15:40.557> no,<00:15:41.612> you<00:15:41.693> can<00:15:41.790> do<00:15:41.953> both.

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And<00:15:44.906> the<00:15:45.004> expression<00:15:45.961> of<00:15:46.042> your<00:15:46.301> life<00:15:46.707> and<00:15:46.772> the<00:15:46.869> way<00:15:47.015> you<00:15:47.339> live<00:15:48.581> is<00:15:49.634> in<00:15:49.732> itself<00:15:51.012> a<00:15:51.093> way<00:15:52.406> to<00:15:52.730> provide<00:15:53.119> impact.

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And<00:15:54.270> that<00:15:54.416> could<00:15:54.593> be<00:15:58.132> in<00:15:58.471> just<00:15:58.730> a<00:15:58.794> pure<00:15:59.457> investment<00:15:59.925> strategy,<00:16:00.491> but<00:16:00.652> it<00:16:00.765> can<00:16:00.879> also<00:16:01.218> be,<00:16:02.300> you<00:16:02.364> know,<00:16:02.493> we<00:16:02.655> would<00:16:02.816> go<00:16:03.042> off<00:16:03.300> and<00:16:03.381> do<00:16:03.704> international<00:16:04.188> diplomacy<00:16:06.108> efforts<00:16:06.528> in<00:16:06.689> Iraq<00:16:07.270> and<00:16:07.399> Afghanistan<00:16:08.384> and<00:16:09.094> Rwanda<00:16:09.659> and<00:16:10.224> Russia<00:16:10.547> and<00:16:11.047> all<00:16:11.144> sorts<00:16:11.467> of<00:16:11.580> other<00:16:11.707> places.

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But<00:16:14.683> it<00:16:14.748> wasn't<00:16:15.070> seen<00:16:15.328> as<00:16:15.957> philanthropy.

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It<00:16:17.393> was<00:16:18.522> just<00:16:19.506> like<00:16:19.973> going<00:16:20.215> out<00:16:20.393> and<00:16:20.538> just<00:16:20.780> doing<00:16:21.038> good.

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And<00:16:22.794> our<00:16:22.955> business,<00:16:23.503> we<00:16:23.599> kind<00:16:23.777> of<00:16:23.841> looked<00:16:24.067> at<00:16:24.164> it<00:16:24.309> the<00:16:24.341> same<00:16:24.647> way.

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I<00:16:25.131> mean,<00:16:25.437> evidence<00:16:25.856> of<00:16:26.178> that,<00:16:26.404> Joe<00:16:26.581> was<00:16:26.727> the<00:16:26.823> first<00:16:28.193> to<00:16:28.435> bet<00:16:28.661> on<00:16:28.822> character.

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He<00:16:30.111> was<00:16:30.289> the<00:16:30.756> originator<00:16:32.447> for<00:16:33.493> allocating<00:16:34.073> capital<00:16:34.476> on<00:16:34.637> the<00:16:34.717> basis<00:16:35.120> of<00:16:35.200> character.

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And<00:16:37.776> we<00:16:37.937> lost<00:16:39.209> him<00:16:39.387> this<00:16:39.709> year.

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Regrettably.

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But<00:16:42.562> I<00:16:42.659> like<00:16:42.836> to<00:16:43.060> think<00:16:43.382> that<00:16:43.928> we're<00:16:44.008> kind<00:16:44.185> of<00:16:44.265> carrying<00:16:44.651> on<00:16:44.747> his<00:16:44.908> legacies<00:16:45.614> with<00:16:45.695> strategies<00:16:46.257> like<00:16:46.498> Return<00:16:46.819> on<00:16:46.915> Character<00:16:48.506> and<00:16:49.630> other<00:16:49.887> efforts,<00:16:50.289> of<00:16:50.369> course.

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I<00:16:50.787> don't<00:16:50.931> know<00:16:50.995> if<00:16:51.156> you<00:16:51.188> know<00:16:51.413> Lindsay<00:16:51.734> Hadley,<00:16:52.136> but<00:16:53.887> she's<00:16:54.883> a<00:16:55.011> great<00:16:56.457> advocate<00:16:57.597> of<00:16:57.742> his<00:16:57.983> work<00:16:58.175> as<00:16:58.384> well.

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Yeah,<00:16:59.364> Lindsay<00:16:59.846> is<00:16:59.942> incredible,<00:17:00.649> and<00:17:00.794> the<00:17:00.954> impact<00:17:01.292> she<00:17:01.452> has<00:17:01.629> in<00:17:01.757> the<00:17:01.838> world<00:17:02.561> is<00:17:02.882> really<00:17:03.123> cool.

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I<00:17:04.665> wonder,<00:17:04.906> like,<00:17:05.307> maybe<00:17:05.548> we<00:17:05.869> put<00:17:06.046> a<00:17:06.877> put<00:17:07.118> this<00:17:07.697> to<00:17:07.874> the<00:17:08.018> test<00:17:08.966> directly<00:17:09.304> with<00:17:09.448> the<00:17:09.545> company<00:17:10.670> or<00:17:10.975> with<00:17:11.296> the<00:17:11.393> current<00:17:11.698> state<00:17:11.859> of<00:17:11.955> the<00:17:12.052> markets?

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Like<00:17:13.096> a<00:17:13.225> company<00:17:13.562> that's<00:17:13.787> getting<00:17:14.044> a<00:17:14.060> lot<00:17:14.301> of<00:17:14.366> flack<00:17:14.751> right<00:17:14.848> now<00:17:15.009> from<00:17:15.185> investors<00:17:15.732> is<00:17:15.895> Meta.

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Just<00:17:17.588> the<00:17:17.751> amount<00:17:18.174> that<00:17:18.337> they're<00:17:18.500> investing<00:17:19.379> into<00:17:20.128> VR,<00:17:21.577> AR,<00:17:22.164> and<00:17:22.310> the<00:17:22.375> metaverse,<00:17:23.952> and<00:17:24.001> that<00:17:24.114> kind<00:17:24.292> of<00:17:24.341> like<00:17:24.535> freaking<00:17:24.989> everyone<00:17:25.394> out.

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When<00:17:26.383> you<00:17:26.561> see<00:17:28.571> that,<00:17:29.786> is<00:17:29.948> that<00:17:30.191> like,<00:17:30.759> like<00:17:31.002> how<00:17:31.164> do<00:17:31.212> you,<00:17:31.326> how<00:17:31.488> do<00:17:31.569> you<00:17:32.339> How<00:17:32.436> do<00:17:32.517> you<00:17:32.680> apply<00:17:33.150> this<00:17:33.328> to<00:17:33.669> someone<00:17:34.123> like<00:17:34.301> Zuckerberg<00:17:35.339> or<00:17:36.490> the<00:17:36.734> very<00:17:37.058> top<00:17:37.382> of<00:17:37.447> the<00:17:37.545> top<00:17:37.934> companies?

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Well,<00:17:44.072> I<00:17:44.154> would<00:17:44.334> put<00:17:44.515> Zuckerberg,<00:17:47.000> Musk,<00:17:48.876> Gates,<00:17:50.024> Jobs<00:17:53.567> in<00:17:54.149> the<00:17:54.360> productive<00:17:54.883> narcissist<00:17:55.522> category.

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Right.

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And<00:18:00.576> as<00:18:00.737> a<00:18:00.897> rule<00:18:01.539> and<00:18:01.924> just<00:18:02.165> as<00:18:02.341> an<00:18:02.742> orientation,<00:18:03.625> we<00:18:03.721> don't<00:18:04.026> invest<00:18:04.427> in<00:18:04.508> productive<00:18:04.973> narcissists.

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Um,<00:18:07.300> um,<00:18:08.279> I<00:18:08.295> don't<00:18:08.584> think<00:18:10.124> it's<00:18:10.285> good<00:18:10.525> to<00:18:10.750> bet<00:18:10.927> against<00:18:11.408> a<00:18:11.472> productive<00:18:11.889> narcissist,<00:18:12.451> you<00:18:13.029> know.

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If<00:18:13.655> you<00:18:13.735> want<00:18:13.895> to<00:18:14.040> be<00:18:14.136> in<00:18:14.216> the<00:18:14.441> business<00:18:15.083> of<00:18:15.580> betting<00:18:15.885> on<00:18:15.982> the<00:18:16.142> productive<00:18:16.623> narcissists,<00:18:17.410> well,<00:18:18.068> you<00:18:18.164> know,<00:18:18.308> you<00:18:18.453> can<00:18:18.549> go<00:18:18.710> and<00:18:18.870> do<00:18:19.031> that.

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Um,<00:18:21.261> but<00:18:21.662> you<00:18:21.694> know,<00:18:22.561> that<00:18:22.818> said,<00:18:24.487> character<00:18:24.872> is<00:18:24.984> not<00:18:25.112> a<00:18:25.289> fixed<00:18:25.674> thing.

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You<00:18:26.493> know,<00:18:27.538> and<00:18:27.795> so<00:18:28.888> I'm<00:18:29.129> rooting<00:18:30.511> that<00:18:30.832> Zuckerberg<00:18:31.475> does<00:18:31.781> end<00:18:31.957> up<00:18:32.118> in<00:18:32.198> the<00:18:32.279> Rock<00:18:32.600> portfolio.

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You<00:18:33.581> know,<00:18:34.866> if<00:18:35.011> we<00:18:35.172> started<00:18:35.606> to<00:18:35.670> see<00:18:38.309> character<00:18:39.692> shifts<00:18:40.239> in<00:18:41.189> his<00:18:41.366> behavior<00:18:42.653> that<00:18:44.333> proved<00:18:44.591> to<00:18:44.672> be<00:18:45.641> validated<00:18:46.270> through<00:18:46.432> our<00:18:46.593> process,<00:18:47.901> he'd<00:18:48.128> absolutely<00:18:48.790> be<00:18:49.823> something<00:18:50.227> we'd<00:18:50.388> have<00:18:50.582> to<00:18:50.711> consider.

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But<00:18:52.410> fortunately,<00:18:52.829> we<00:18:52.990> don't<00:18:53.215> have<00:18:53.392> to<00:18:53.473> consider<00:18:53.956> it<00:18:54.101> now<00:18:56.049> because<00:18:56.999> a<00:18:57.079> lot<00:18:57.482> of<00:18:58.528> the<00:18:58.706> things<00:18:58.963> that<00:18:59.189> Facebook<00:19:00.058> are<00:19:00.300> doing<00:19:00.573> is<00:19:00.863> arguably<00:19:01.346> very<00:19:01.523> challenging<00:19:02.392> and<00:19:03.036> ethically<00:19:03.454> questionable<00:19:04.259> in<00:19:04.340> the<00:19:04.484> way<00:19:04.661> in<00:19:04.822> which<00:19:05.788> they<00:19:05.933> interact<00:19:06.512> and<00:19:06.609> they're<00:19:06.738> affecting<00:19:07.220> our<00:19:07.462> world.

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By<00:19:09.519> nature<00:19:09.826> of<00:19:09.923> our<00:19:10.068> screen,<00:19:10.553> it's<00:19:10.714> really<00:19:11.021> interesting,<00:19:11.522> Clint.

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It's<00:19:12.071> like<00:19:12.330> we<00:19:12.427> don't—<00:19:13.138> I<00:19:13.154> think<00:19:13.315> our<00:19:13.461> highest<00:19:13.929> controversy<00:19:14.592> score<00:19:15.900> stock<00:19:16.449> is<00:19:16.676> like<00:19:16.853> a<00:19:16.999> taser<00:19:17.338> company.

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So,<00:19:18.764> for<00:19:18.844> some<00:19:19.085> reason,<00:19:20.290> we<00:19:20.434> don't<00:19:20.611> have<00:19:21.253> a<00:19:21.333> lot<00:19:21.574> of<00:19:21.719> controversy<00:19:22.441> companies<00:19:24.609> by<00:19:24.705> the<00:19:24.866> nature<00:19:25.107> of<00:19:25.267> screening<00:19:25.893> for<00:19:26.070> character.

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We<00:19:27.836> tend<00:19:28.238> to<00:19:28.639> have<00:19:28.864> a<00:19:28.960> lower<00:19:29.201> beta,<00:19:29.667> we<00:19:29.699> have<00:19:29.827> higher<00:19:30.084> returns<00:19:30.469> on<00:19:30.566> equity,<00:19:31.609> we<00:19:31.770> have<00:19:33.360> lower<00:19:33.617> debt<00:19:33.841> ratios,<00:19:34.740> we<00:19:34.885> have<00:19:35.238> more<00:19:35.527> women<00:19:35.864> CEOs,<00:19:37.775> tend<00:19:37.936> to<00:19:38.016> have<00:19:38.193> better<00:19:38.498> ESG<00:19:38.851> scores,<00:19:40.585> all<00:19:41.067> as<00:19:41.484> a<00:19:42.127> byproduct<00:19:43.010> of<00:19:43.802> looking<00:19:44.064> at<00:19:44.146> the<00:19:44.245> market<00:19:44.655> in<00:19:44.720> this<00:19:44.950> way<00:19:45.540> and<00:19:45.704> choosing<00:19:46.508> on<00:19:46.590> this<00:19:46.836> basis.

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But<00:19:49.242> yeah,<00:19:49.371> so<00:19:49.842> if<00:19:49.987> you're<00:19:50.328> looking<00:19:50.571> to<00:19:50.814> invest<00:19:51.771> in<00:19:52.581> the<00:19:52.679> productive<00:19:53.084> narcissists<00:19:53.733> of<00:19:53.878> the<00:19:53.960> world,<00:19:54.851> you<00:19:54.949> know,<00:19:55.419> we're<00:19:55.532> not<00:19:55.759> the<00:19:55.840> place<00:19:56.083> to<00:19:56.229> go.

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Yeah.

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You<00:19:58.985> mentioned<00:19:59.373> ESG,<00:19:59.858> which<00:20:00.084> is<00:20:00.181> another<00:20:00.505> kind<00:20:00.667> of<00:20:00.748> controversial<00:20:01.540> thing.

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A<00:20:01.734> lot<00:20:01.880> of<00:20:01.961> people<00:20:02.510> really<00:20:02.753> love<00:20:02.996> it.

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There's<00:20:03.885> obviously<00:20:04.710> folks<00:20:05.017> who<00:20:05.050> are<00:20:05.114> against<00:20:05.600> it.

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How<00:20:06.247> do<00:20:06.408> you<00:20:06.554> feel<00:20:06.700> about<00:20:06.977> it?

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Well,<00:20:12.797> my<00:20:13.119> position<00:20:14.085> on<00:20:14.246> the<00:20:14.585> ESG<00:20:15.776> orientation<00:20:16.598> is<00:20:16.839> that<00:20:18.595> more<00:20:18.852> important<00:20:19.480> than<00:20:19.658> an<00:20:19.754> ESG<00:20:20.270> score<00:20:20.954> is<00:20:21.101> a<00:20:21.264> leader<00:20:21.525> that<00:20:21.753> actually<00:20:22.161> believes<00:20:23.628> in<00:20:23.791> trying<00:20:24.052> to<00:20:24.215> leave<00:20:24.459> the<00:20:24.606> world<00:20:24.851> a<00:20:24.932> better<00:20:25.193> place.

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And<00:20:28.009> at<00:20:28.315> the<00:20:28.412> core<00:20:28.734> of<00:20:28.879> our<00:20:29.121> analysis<00:20:30.008> is<00:20:30.169> kind<00:20:30.362> of,<00:20:31.539> is<00:20:31.700> that,<00:20:32.135> is<00:20:33.167> a<00:20:33.247> leader<00:20:33.570> that<00:20:33.747> sees<00:20:34.053> beyond<00:20:34.456> themselves,<00:20:35.443> even<00:20:35.545> sees<00:20:35.866> beyond<00:20:36.186> their<00:20:36.355> company.

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And<00:20:39.103> so<00:20:39.651> I<00:20:39.747> like<00:20:39.908> to<00:20:40.005> say<00:20:41.743> L+ESG.

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First,<00:20:44.094> let's<00:20:44.319> get<00:20:44.496> leadership<00:20:45.060> right.

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Let's<00:20:45.688> get<00:20:45.849> the<00:20:45.929> CEO<00:20:46.589> right.

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And<00:20:48.233> then<00:20:49.685> prioritize<00:20:50.412> ESG<00:20:51.299> and<00:20:52.122> care<00:20:53.155> and<00:20:53.252> believe<00:20:53.639> more<00:20:53.897> that<00:20:54.865> it's<00:20:56.382> far<00:20:56.560> better<00:20:56.835> to<00:20:56.950> have<00:20:57.459> a<00:20:57.541> leader<00:20:57.854> that<00:20:58.018> really<00:20:58.264> believes<00:20:58.609> in<00:20:58.675> it<00:20:58.921> than<00:20:59.118> say<00:20:59.513> a<00:20:59.660> very<00:21:00.400> well<00:21:01.188> crafted<00:21:01.997> website<00:21:02.660> that,<00:21:03.227> you<00:21:03.308> know,<00:21:03.551> explains<00:21:04.182> why<00:21:04.425> they're<00:21:05.817> achieving<00:21:06.367> all<00:21:06.464> their<00:21:06.691> ESG<00:21:07.031> goals.

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That's<00:21:10.405> the<00:21:10.647> way<00:21:11.434> I<00:21:11.531> would<00:21:11.756> want<00:21:11.917> to<00:21:11.997> encourage<00:21:12.415> the<00:21:12.528> market<00:21:12.913> in<00:21:13.042> the<00:21:13.138> ESG<00:21:13.444> world<00:21:14.167> to<00:21:14.328> really<00:21:14.585> kind<00:21:14.826> of<00:21:14.891> start<00:21:16.032> configuring<00:21:16.820> their<00:21:18.770> evaluation<00:21:19.417> of<00:21:19.578> the<00:21:19.740> ESG<00:21:20.064> world.

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It's<00:21:20.452> like,<00:21:20.630> let's<00:21:20.743> start<00:21:21.018> with<00:21:21.115> the<00:21:21.212> leader.

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I<00:21:21.778> mean,<00:21:22.651> in<00:21:22.878> every<00:21:23.137> case,<00:21:23.541> in<00:21:23.848> all<00:21:24.010> organizations<00:21:24.770> and<00:21:24.900> countries,<00:21:25.970> you<00:21:26.036> know,<00:21:26.169> the<00:21:26.335> leader<00:21:26.666> plays<00:21:27.081> a<00:21:27.164> huge<00:21:27.811> role<00:21:28.606> in<00:21:28.702> the<00:21:28.846> cultural<00:21:29.327> priorities<00:21:30.001> of<00:21:30.145> organizations.

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And<00:21:31.909> just<00:21:32.133> because<00:21:32.406> it's<00:21:32.614> written<00:21:32.935> on<00:21:33.015> a<00:21:33.095> wall<00:21:33.592> or<00:21:34.234> in<00:21:34.314> a<00:21:34.394> brochure<00:21:35.019> on<00:21:35.116> a<00:21:35.180> website<00:21:36.462> does<00:21:36.735> not<00:21:37.040> mean<00:21:37.521> it's<00:21:37.617> a<00:21:37.681> cultural<00:21:38.082> priority.

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And<00:21:40.166> that<00:21:40.407> could<00:21:40.567> be<00:21:40.888> part<00:21:41.144> of<00:21:41.209> the<00:21:41.353> reason<00:21:41.914> there's<00:21:42.074> some<00:21:42.251> tension<00:21:43.197> around<00:21:43.453> the<00:21:43.534> subject.

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But<00:21:44.816> like<00:21:45.057> I<00:21:45.137> said,<00:21:45.458> you<00:21:45.554> know,<00:21:45.698> I<00:21:45.778> think<00:21:47.221> our<00:21:47.558> fund<00:21:47.847> has<00:21:48.023> been<00:21:48.183> classified<00:21:48.889> as<00:21:49.146> ESG<00:21:49.466> in<00:21:49.723> some<00:21:49.851> of<00:21:50.027> the<00:21:50.188> browsers,<00:21:50.765> and<00:21:52.016> I've<00:21:52.978> never<00:21:53.314> looked<00:21:53.619> at<00:21:53.699> it<00:21:53.795> really<00:21:54.100> as<00:21:54.196> an<00:21:54.437> ESG<00:21:54.757> strategy.

00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:06.675
I've<00:21:55.399> just<00:21:55.623> looked<00:21:55.864> at<00:21:56.024> it<00:21:56.185> as<00:21:56.361> a,<00:21:56.924> really<00:21:57.167> smart<00:21:57.571> way<00:21:57.733> to<00:21:57.895> invest<00:21:58.380> in<00:21:58.444> the<00:21:58.525> marketplace,<00:22:01.776> but<00:22:01.937> it<00:22:02.018> certainly<00:22:02.487> does<00:22:03.134> have<00:22:04.023> characteristics<00:22:04.832> that<00:22:04.945> are<00:22:05.091> applicable<00:22:05.802> to<00:22:05.899> the<00:22:06.206> ESG<00:22:06.336> space.

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And<00:22:07.660> I<00:22:07.757> welcome<00:22:08.226> the<00:22:08.323> discussion<00:22:08.823> around<00:22:09.130> it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's<00:22:11.150> interesting.

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Why<00:22:11.634> do<00:22:11.699> you<00:22:11.796> think<00:22:11.973> it's<00:22:12.119> controversial?

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ESG<00:22:16.029> in<00:22:16.288> general?

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Yeah.

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Well,<00:22:19.910> look,<00:22:20.233> Clint,<00:22:20.557> I<00:22:20.637> don't<00:22:20.799> claim<00:22:21.058> to<00:22:21.139> be<00:22:21.284> an<00:22:21.381> ESG<00:22:22.173> professional<00:22:22.756> or<00:22:23.305> on<00:22:23.402> the<00:22:23.483> category,<00:22:24.696> but<00:22:24.858> I<00:22:24.922> mean,<00:22:25.100> I<00:22:25.230> think<00:22:25.422> people<00:22:25.702> are<00:22:26.139> questioning<00:22:29.148> the<00:22:29.631> measurement<00:22:30.211> tools,<00:22:31.743> the<00:22:35.064> accountability<00:22:36.160> in<00:22:37.143> the<00:22:37.288> process<00:22:37.853> of<00:22:38.418> getting<00:22:38.692> certain<00:22:39.225> ESG<00:22:39.548> scores,<00:22:40.209> the<00:22:40.370> subject,<00:22:41.242> you<00:22:41.419> know,<00:22:42.129> the<00:22:42.371> arbitrary<00:22:43.033> orientation<00:22:43.824> around,<00:22:44.227> well,<00:22:46.390> you<00:22:46.422> know,<00:22:46.908> how<00:22:47.054> do<00:22:47.135> you<00:22:47.167> really<00:22:47.459> measure<00:22:47.799> these<00:22:48.042> things<00:22:48.464> and<00:22:48.593> are<00:22:48.690> they<00:22:48.836> really<00:22:49.014> making<00:22:49.257> an<00:22:49.420> impact?

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And<00:22:50.619> then<00:22:51.915> if<00:22:52.158> it's<00:22:52.563> kind<00:22:52.741> of<00:22:52.887> wobbly,<00:22:53.470> well,<00:22:53.713> why<00:22:53.892> in<00:22:53.956> the<00:22:54.037> world<00:22:54.362> would<00:22:54.507> we<00:22:54.669> place<00:22:54.848> such<00:22:55.107> a<00:22:55.236> value<00:22:55.642> on<00:22:55.836> it?

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And<00:22:56.383> allocate<00:22:56.786> capital<00:22:57.753> in<00:22:57.818> that<00:22:57.995> direction<00:22:58.559> when<00:22:58.736> it's<00:22:58.946> based<00:22:59.268> on<00:22:59.445> what<00:23:00.106> some<00:23:00.331> would<00:23:00.509> say<00:23:01.363> is<00:23:01.540> kind<00:23:01.782> of<00:23:02.007> wonky<00:23:02.410> data.

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And<00:23:04.468> that<00:23:04.730> may<00:23:04.877> or<00:23:04.975> may<00:23:05.139> not<00:23:05.385> be<00:23:05.549> true<00:23:05.794> in<00:23:05.892> certain<00:23:06.187> categories.

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I'm<00:23:06.924> not<00:23:07.006> in<00:23:07.104> a<00:23:07.186> position<00:23:07.546> to<00:23:07.677> judge<00:23:07.939> it.

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I<00:23:09.870> just,<00:23:10.694> you<00:23:10.775> know,<00:23:12.133> but<00:23:12.553> what<00:23:12.715> I<00:23:13.200> am<00:23:13.588> convicted<00:23:14.154> on<00:23:14.348> is<00:23:14.574> that<00:23:15.786> unless<00:23:16.207> a<00:23:16.271> leader<00:23:16.595> believes<00:23:16.934> in<00:23:17.079> it<00:23:18.195> and<00:23:18.777> believes<00:23:19.100> in<00:23:19.230> certain<00:23:19.413> aspects<00:23:19.999> of<00:23:20.099> their<00:23:20.333> ESG<00:23:20.768> priorities,<00:23:22.324> it's<00:23:22.565> probably<00:23:23.048> not<00:23:24.014> going<00:23:24.255> to<00:23:24.416> be<00:23:25.929> executed<00:23:27.394> in<00:23:27.474> the<00:23:27.619> way<00:23:27.941> that<00:23:28.665> everybody<00:23:29.003> would<00:23:29.148> hope<00:23:29.405> it<00:23:29.470> would<00:23:29.647> be.

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And<00:23:33.169> so<00:23:33.411> it's<00:23:33.958> just<00:23:34.200> like,<00:23:34.442> because<00:23:34.780> that's<00:23:36.455> why<00:23:36.874> when<00:23:37.035> a<00:23:37.116> leader<00:23:37.519> leaves,<00:23:37.937> a<00:23:38.018> CEO<00:23:38.469> leaves<00:23:38.888> one<00:23:39.049> of<00:23:39.130> our<00:23:39.355> portfolio<00:23:39.758> companies,<00:23:40.402> we<00:23:40.499> sell<00:23:40.805> the<00:23:40.870> company<00:23:43.333> because<00:23:43.722> we<00:23:43.820> don't<00:23:44.144> necessarily<00:23:44.808> assume<00:23:46.559> that<00:23:47.369> their<00:23:48.100> cultural<00:23:49.102> priorities<00:23:49.766> are<00:23:49.911> going<00:23:49.992> to<00:23:50.073> be<00:23:50.235> carried<00:23:50.639> through<00:23:51.448> with<00:23:51.610> the<00:23:51.691> next<00:23:51.917> CEO.

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That<00:23:52.807> has<00:23:52.985> to<00:23:53.147> be<00:23:53.228> right<00:23:53.697> out,<00:23:54.360> you<00:23:54.457> know,<00:23:56.366> it<00:23:56.625> seems<00:23:57.094> like<00:23:57.240> so<00:23:57.839> naturally<00:23:58.811> intuitive<00:23:59.944> that<00:24:00.025> that<00:24:00.187> would<00:24:00.333> be<00:24:00.430> the<00:24:00.576> case,<00:24:01.402> but<00:24:01.726> it's<00:24:01.953> not<00:24:02.195> always.

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And<00:24:03.507> so<00:24:04.301> any<00:24:04.463> time<00:24:04.641> a<00:24:04.722> company<00:24:05.111> leaves<00:24:06.088> or<00:24:06.512> CEO<00:24:06.839> leaves,<00:24:07.574> we<00:24:07.656> have<00:24:07.803> to<00:24:07.967> run<00:24:08.081> them<00:24:08.228> through<00:24:08.391> the<00:24:08.473> process<00:24:08.963> again,<00:24:09.290> the<00:24:09.372> new<00:24:09.535> CEO,<00:24:10.009> and<00:24:10.107> see<00:24:10.336> if<00:24:10.417> they<00:24:10.515> qualify.

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What<00:24:13.008> do<00:24:13.074> you<00:24:13.239> think<00:24:15.058> Who<00:24:15.171> do<00:24:15.299> you<00:24:15.380> think<00:24:15.573> is<00:24:15.653> like<00:24:15.895> a<00:24:16.040> great<00:24:17.086> leader?

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What<00:24:18.051> are<00:24:18.132> some<00:24:18.309> examples<00:24:19.017> of<00:24:19.178> like<00:24:19.420> high-character<00:24:20.208> leaders<00:24:21.576> or<00:24:21.753> some<00:24:21.930> of<00:24:21.995> the<00:24:22.139> companies<00:24:22.494> that<00:24:22.638> you've<00:24:22.815> invested<00:24:23.218> in<00:24:23.364> where<00:24:23.461> you're<00:24:23.624> like,<00:24:24.418> this<00:24:24.726> is<00:24:24.840> something,<00:24:25.553> as<00:24:25.650> an<00:24:25.731> example<00:24:26.153> to<00:24:26.267> those<00:24:26.510> who<00:24:26.542> are<00:24:26.688> listening<00:24:27.094> or<00:24:27.239> watching,<00:24:28.391> of<00:24:28.537> a<00:24:28.715> leader<00:24:29.120> with<00:24:29.429> really<00:24:29.688> high<00:24:29.931> character?

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Yeah,<00:24:31.700> no,<00:24:31.866> that's<00:24:32.114> an<00:24:32.197> easy<00:24:32.446> one.

00:24:33.441 --> 00:24:45.578
In<00:24:33.507> the<00:24:33.689> early<00:24:33.855> 2000s,<00:24:38.972> one<00:24:39.158> of<00:24:39.192> the<00:24:39.242> best<00:24:39.512> examples<00:24:40.001> I<00:24:40.153> came<00:24:40.807> into<00:24:41.210> was<00:24:41.387> Jim<00:24:41.613> Sinegal<00:24:41.967> at<00:24:42.112> Costco,<00:24:43.563> the<00:24:43.708> CEO<00:24:44.449> and<00:24:44.611> founder<00:24:44.933> of<00:24:45.078> Costco.

00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:52.463
He<00:24:48.281> just<00:24:48.524> kind<00:24:48.670> of<00:24:48.929> oozes<00:24:49.270> and<00:24:49.416> exemplifies<00:24:50.469> kind<00:24:50.631> of<00:24:51.183> what<00:24:51.361> we're<00:24:51.507> looking<00:24:51.831> for<00:24:52.026> in<00:24:52.171> leaders.

00:24:54.385 --> 00:24:56.935
Tim<00:24:54.788> Boyle<00:24:55.273> at<00:24:55.579> Columbia<00:24:55.935> Sportswear<00:24:56.548> was<00:24:56.726> one.

00:24:57.614 --> 00:25:01.682
Matt<00:24:58.082> Rose,<00:24:58.485> the<00:24:58.582> BNSF<00:24:59.131> Railway<00:24:59.971> CEO<00:25:01.004> and<00:25:01.149> chairman.

00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:05.134
Herb<00:25:02.990> Kelleher<00:25:03.655> at<00:25:03.834> Southwest<00:25:04.646> was<00:25:04.776> another.

00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:14.776
So<00:25:06.813> those<00:25:07.039> are<00:25:07.136> a<00:25:07.216> few<00:25:07.459> examples<00:25:08.170> that<00:25:08.266> can<00:25:08.428> kind<00:25:08.670> of<00:25:09.640> bring<00:25:10.447> this<00:25:10.690> notion<00:25:11.416> into<00:25:11.643> tangible<00:25:13.274> understanding.

00:25:16.072 --> 00:25:19.092
Those<00:25:16.335> are<00:25:16.466> the<00:25:16.565> kinds<00:25:16.827> of<00:25:16.958> leaders<00:25:17.287> that<00:25:17.385> we're<00:25:17.549> looking<00:25:17.960> for<00:25:18.222> today.

00:25:22.011 --> 00:25:33.036
And<00:25:22.188> those<00:25:22.430> are<00:25:22.494> the<00:25:22.591> ones<00:25:22.897> that<00:25:23.865> are<00:25:24.107> kind<00:25:24.284> of<00:25:24.365> inspiring<00:25:25.316> examples,<00:25:25.880> I<00:25:26.058> think,<00:25:26.300> of<00:25:26.864> what<00:25:27.041> a<00:25:27.412> character-driven<00:25:28.637> organization<00:25:29.282> ends<00:25:29.460> up<00:25:29.605> looking<00:25:29.927> like<00:25:30.169> when<00:25:30.298> you<00:25:30.330> get<00:25:30.493> a<00:25:31.058> CEO<00:25:31.407> like<00:25:31.740> that<00:25:32.737> in<00:25:32.770> the<00:25:32.837> seat.

00:25:34.018 --> 00:25:39.233
What<00:25:34.131> should<00:25:34.292> a<00:25:34.356> CEO<00:25:35.161> or<00:25:35.322> leader<00:25:35.627> be<00:25:35.788> thinking<00:25:36.062> about<00:25:36.448> in<00:25:36.674> this<00:25:36.995> environment,<00:25:37.881> how<00:25:38.122> volatile<00:25:38.621> the<00:25:38.701> market<00:25:39.168> is?

00:25:39.812 --> 00:25:43.584
And,<00:25:40.778> you<00:25:40.858> know,<00:25:41.035> it's<00:25:41.341> looking<00:25:41.824> like<00:25:42.162> we<00:25:42.259> may—<00:25:42.970> who<00:25:43.196> knows?

00:25:43.924 --> 00:25:47.771
You<00:25:44.005> would<00:25:44.279> know<00:25:44.570> this<00:25:44.748> better<00:25:45.298> than<00:25:45.460> I,<00:25:45.637> but<00:25:46.365> be<00:25:46.526> in<00:25:46.607> a<00:25:46.688> recession<00:25:47.238> next<00:25:47.513> year.

00:25:48.466 --> 00:25:51.182
It<00:25:48.628> looks<00:25:48.935> like,<00:25:49.178> you<00:25:49.210> know,<00:25:49.388> some<00:25:49.921> of<00:25:50.067> the<00:25:50.164> things<00:25:50.406> are<00:25:50.487> not<00:25:50.729> looking<00:25:50.972> good.

00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:52.364
What<00:25:51.441> should<00:25:51.619> they<00:25:51.780> be<00:25:51.910> thinking<00:25:52.189> of?

00:25:55.673 --> 00:25:59.080
Well,<00:25:55.851> I<00:25:56.093> think—<00:25:56.319> I<00:25:56.513> mean,<00:25:56.723> you'd<00:25:56.965> have<00:25:57.078> to<00:25:57.207> go<00:25:57.369> back<00:25:57.627> to<00:25:57.708> the<00:25:57.853> 4<00:25:58.095> pillars,<00:25:58.838> you<00:25:58.919> know.

00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:17.525
Constantly<00:26:00.266> orient<00:26:00.509> yourself<00:26:00.946> around<00:26:01.902> integrity<00:26:05.288> and<00:26:05.450> what<00:26:05.645> that<00:26:05.937> means<00:26:06.844> and<00:26:07.233> what<00:26:07.395> that<00:26:07.476> really,<00:26:08.039> you<00:26:08.136> know,<00:26:11.099> how<00:26:11.293> can<00:26:12.549> you<00:26:13.515> represent<00:26:14.175> that<00:26:15.126> in<00:26:15.222> the<00:26:15.367> way<00:26:15.609> in<00:26:15.705> which<00:26:15.931> you<00:26:16.511> lead<00:26:16.640> your<00:26:16.817> organization?

00:26:17.944 --> 00:26:25.755
You<00:26:18.041> know,<00:26:18.202> responsibility,<00:26:19.571> reemphasizing<00:26:20.779> the<00:26:20.924> importance<00:26:21.407> of<00:26:21.503> leaving<00:26:21.825> the<00:26:21.970> world<00:26:22.244> a<00:26:22.309> better<00:26:22.695> place,<00:26:23.178> a<00:26:23.355> collective<00:26:23.903> responsibility<00:26:24.724> as<00:26:24.966> an<00:26:25.208> organization.

00:26:26.687 --> 00:26:33.686
And<00:26:26.736> then<00:26:26.864> the<00:26:27.008> other<00:26:27.249> two<00:26:27.570> aspects<00:26:28.212> that<00:26:28.951> tend<00:26:29.192> not<00:26:29.497> to<00:26:29.673> be<00:26:30.652> or<00:26:30.861> tend<00:26:31.021> to<00:26:31.102> surprise<00:26:31.599> people<00:26:31.936> is<00:26:32.081> the<00:26:32.177> orientation<00:26:32.884> around<00:26:33.269> forgiveness.

00:26:34.649 --> 00:26:37.587
You<00:26:34.746> know,<00:26:34.970> I<00:26:35.051> mean,<00:26:35.275> forgiveness<00:26:35.853> builds<00:26:36.174> trust<00:26:36.672> in<00:26:36.816> an<00:26:36.961> organization.

00:26:38.486 --> 00:26:45.838
You<00:26:38.518> know,<00:26:38.727> their<00:26:38.983> ability<00:26:39.385> to<00:26:39.481> forgive<00:26:39.786> themselves<00:26:40.332> when<00:26:40.428> they<00:26:40.573> make<00:26:40.813> mistakes,<00:26:41.471> forgive<00:26:41.937> others,<00:26:42.900> you<00:26:42.996> know,<00:26:43.622> and<00:26:44.040> then<00:26:44.200> compassion<00:26:45.179> is<00:26:45.324> huge.

00:26:46.191 --> 00:26:53.687
You<00:26:46.287> know,<00:26:46.913> a<00:26:47.074> genuine<00:26:48.534> felt<00:26:50.220> compassion<00:26:51.327> and<00:26:52.050> empathy<00:26:52.531> for<00:26:52.708> those<00:26:52.949> that<00:26:53.093> you<00:26:53.190> work<00:26:53.430> with.

00:26:54.232 --> 00:26:54.713
Matters.

00:26:55.194 --> 00:27:07.119
And<00:26:57.117> that's<00:26:57.438> whenever<00:26:57.678> you're<00:26:57.823> going<00:26:57.903> to<00:26:57.983> end<00:26:58.159> up<00:26:58.384> building<00:26:58.977> organizations,<00:27:00.483> like<00:27:00.884> the<00:27:00.964> combination<00:27:01.621> of<00:27:01.749> all<00:27:01.926> those<00:27:02.246> things<00:27:03.048> creates<00:27:03.288> an<00:27:03.432> enduring<00:27:03.993> workforce<00:27:05.212> that's<00:27:05.372> willing<00:27:05.612> to<00:27:05.756> walk<00:27:06.077> through<00:27:06.317> walls<00:27:06.734> for<00:27:06.894> you.

00:27:07.439 --> 00:27:13.033
You<00:27:08.337> know,<00:27:09.683> and<00:27:09.940> if<00:27:10.084> ever<00:27:10.324> there's<00:27:10.517> a<00:27:10.645> time<00:27:10.918> you<00:27:10.998> need<00:27:11.222> that,<00:27:12.023> it's<00:27:12.248> in<00:27:12.424> the<00:27:12.504> recession.

00:27:14.107 --> 00:27:16.672
It's<00:27:14.412> in<00:27:14.604> a<00:27:14.748> difficult<00:27:15.213> time<00:27:15.469> when<00:27:15.630> people<00:27:15.918> are<00:27:16.030> afraid.

00:27:17.457 --> 00:27:26.804
And<00:27:18.996> when<00:27:19.092> you're<00:27:19.300> asking<00:27:19.573> them<00:27:19.717> to<00:27:19.877> do<00:27:20.198> more<00:27:20.438> work<00:27:20.743> than<00:27:20.823> maybe<00:27:21.079> they<00:27:21.240> need,<00:27:21.640> you<00:27:21.736> know,<00:27:21.961> they,<00:27:22.852> than<00:27:23.340> they<00:27:23.665> should<00:27:24.218> have<00:27:24.462> to<00:27:24.966> do<00:27:25.519> because<00:27:25.682> of<00:27:25.861> the<00:27:25.942> challenging<00:27:26.381> moments.

00:27:28.410 --> 00:27:43.283
Those<00:27:28.605> are<00:27:28.687> the<00:27:28.768> 4<00:27:29.160> orientations<00:27:29.911> that<00:27:30.139> I<00:27:30.237> would<00:27:30.384> encourage<00:27:30.808> CEOs<00:27:31.461> to<00:27:31.624> kind<00:27:31.869> of,<00:27:32.848> to<00:27:32.995> really<00:27:33.256> focus<00:27:33.663> on<00:27:33.907> and<00:27:34.135> put<00:27:34.314> it<00:27:34.460> on<00:27:34.541> their<00:27:34.704> wall<00:27:36.509> that<00:27:38.363> would<00:27:38.525> probably,<00:27:39.927> and<00:27:40.008> I<00:27:40.104> believe<00:27:40.427> likely,<00:27:41.944> help<00:27:42.283> through<00:27:42.444> difficult<00:27:42.912> times.

00:27:43.331 --> 00:27:49.285
I<00:27:43.347> mean,<00:27:43.557> I<00:27:43.654> think<00:27:44.767> especially<00:27:45.429> in<00:27:45.510> difficult<00:27:45.913> times,<00:27:47.026> these<00:27:47.220> are<00:27:47.284> the<00:27:47.365> kinds<00:27:47.672> of<00:27:47.704> CEOs<00:27:48.172> you<00:27:48.317> also<00:27:48.559> want<00:27:48.704> to<00:27:48.736> invest<00:27:49.204> in.

00:27:49.916 --> 00:28:05.042
I<00:27:50.413> mean,<00:27:51.599> you<00:27:51.695> want<00:27:51.919> your<00:27:52.015> portfolio<00:27:53.682> with<00:27:54.082> leaders<00:27:54.499> that<00:27:58.264> are<00:27:58.409> behaving<00:27:59.867> in<00:27:59.963> a<00:28:00.027> way<00:28:00.331> that<00:28:00.652> has<00:28:00.892> correlated<00:28:01.453> to<00:28:01.549> performance<00:28:03.312> and<00:28:03.552> doing<00:28:03.857> it<00:28:03.953> in<00:28:04.097> a<00:28:04.113> way<00:28:04.353> that's<00:28:04.594> enduring.

00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:16.563
And<00:28:06.276> that's<00:28:07.462> why<00:28:07.622> we<00:28:07.814> feel<00:28:08.039> more<00:28:08.263> and<00:28:08.343> more<00:28:08.519> confident<00:28:09.865> in<00:28:11.083> Rock<00:28:11.339> Investment<00:28:11.788> strategy<00:28:12.525> is<00:28:12.669> that<00:28:13.567> if<00:28:13.791> ever<00:28:13.983> there<00:28:14.127> was<00:28:14.304> a<00:28:14.432> time<00:28:14.688> to<00:28:14.913> own<00:28:15.329> the<00:28:15.409> best<00:28:15.650> CEOs,<00:28:16.227> it's<00:28:16.451> now.

00:28:18.384 --> 00:28:18.435
Yeah.

00:28:18.520 --> 00:28:19.455
Yeah,<00:28:18.724> that's<00:28:18.894> a<00:28:18.962> good<00:28:19.234> point.

00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:21.909
What<00:28:20.817> led<00:28:20.996> you<00:28:21.078> to<00:28:21.224> this<00:28:21.404> career?

00:28:22.055 --> 00:28:23.163
How<00:28:22.218> did<00:28:22.381> you<00:28:22.544> get<00:28:22.772> into<00:28:22.951> this?

00:28:23.668 --> 00:28:26.258
What<00:28:23.929> made<00:28:24.320> you<00:28:24.482> think<00:28:24.727> like,<00:28:24.808> "I'm<00:28:24.890> going<00:28:25.150> to<00:28:25.216> invest<00:28:25.655> in<00:28:25.802> public<00:28:26.046> companies"?

00:28:28.376 --> 00:28:55.539
Well,<00:28:28.795> originally<00:28:29.278> with<00:28:29.358> Joe<00:28:29.600> Ricci,<00:28:30.566> we<00:28:30.727> were<00:28:30.824> sitting<00:28:31.065> around<00:28:31.435> one<00:28:31.613> day<00:28:33.609> back<00:28:33.802> in<00:28:33.867> Chicago<00:28:34.591> and<00:28:34.736> he<00:28:34.897> asked<00:28:35.139> me<00:28:35.252> the<00:28:35.316> question,<00:28:35.799> "Man,<00:28:36.121> I<00:28:36.507> wish<00:28:36.668> I<00:28:36.765> just<00:28:36.991> knew<00:28:37.152> who<00:28:37.248> the<00:28:37.409> good<00:28:37.635> ones<00:28:37.877> were<00:28:38.299> in<00:28:38.380> the<00:28:38.526> market."<00:28:39.677> And<00:28:39.823> it<00:28:39.905> was<00:28:40.229> asked<00:28:40.553> out<00:28:40.667> of<00:28:40.748> a<00:28:40.813> question,<00:28:41.770> out<00:28:41.867> of<00:28:41.965> a<00:28:42.769> out<00:28:42.883> of<00:28:42.964> a<00:28:43.093> belief,<00:28:43.417> one,<00:28:43.659> character<00:28:43.935> matters,<00:28:46.330> two,<00:28:48.838> that<00:28:49.340> from<00:28:49.502> the<00:28:49.583> standpoint<00:28:50.133> of<00:28:50.311> just<00:28:51.185> a<00:28:51.250> long-term<00:28:51.748> performance,<00:28:52.390> man,<00:28:53.708> it<00:28:54.013> just<00:28:54.238> has<00:28:54.479> to<00:28:54.881> have<00:28:55.041> an<00:28:55.138> impact.

00:28:56.407 --> 00:29:08.025
But<00:28:56.728> it<00:28:56.809> was<00:28:56.969> also<00:28:57.226> born<00:28:57.467> out<00:28:57.532> of<00:28:57.644> the<00:28:57.773> fact<00:28:58.110> that<00:28:59.460> there's<00:29:00.022> all<00:29:00.118> this<00:29:00.359> data<00:29:00.600> out<00:29:00.890> there<00:29:01.084> that<00:29:01.407> everybody<00:29:01.731> can<00:29:01.957> analyze<00:29:02.475> and<00:29:02.685> Wall<00:29:02.863> Street<00:29:03.171> and<00:29:03.268> everybody's<00:29:03.592> competing<00:29:04.077> to<00:29:04.223> look<00:29:04.384> at<00:29:04.481> it<00:29:04.643> in<00:29:04.708> different<00:29:04.967> ways<00:29:05.226> to<00:29:05.290> try<00:29:05.452> to<00:29:05.533> get<00:29:05.663> an<00:29:05.760> edge<00:29:06.018> and<00:29:06.650> try<00:29:06.779> to<00:29:06.908> come<00:29:07.054> up<00:29:07.216> with<00:29:07.313> an<00:29:07.394> investment<00:29:07.879> theory.

00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.992
And<00:29:09.359> we<00:29:09.455> didn't<00:29:09.616> think<00:29:09.792> we<00:29:09.921> could<00:29:10.017> compete<00:29:11.302> in<00:29:11.382> that<00:29:11.607> world.

00:29:12.971 --> 00:29:21.127
But<00:29:13.212> the<00:29:13.373> one<00:29:13.533> area<00:29:13.870> that<00:29:14.015> we<00:29:14.111> felt<00:29:14.336> like<00:29:14.577> had<00:29:14.753> a<00:29:14.818> huge<00:29:15.074> predictive<00:29:15.492> indicator<00:29:16.279> of<00:29:16.423> the<00:29:16.503> performance<00:29:16.921> of<00:29:16.985> a<00:29:17.065> company<00:29:17.338> over<00:29:17.451> a<00:29:17.547> long<00:29:17.724> term<00:29:18.928> is<00:29:19.008> an<00:29:19.088> area<00:29:19.409> that<00:29:19.891> Wall<00:29:20.052> Street<00:29:20.292> wasn't<00:29:20.597> measuring<00:29:20.935> at<00:29:21.079> all.

00:29:21.416 --> 00:29:22.668
Like,<00:29:21.577> there<00:29:21.721> was<00:29:21.834> no<00:29:22.058> value<00:29:22.444> for<00:29:22.620> it.

00:29:22.781 --> 00:29:30.808
There's,<00:29:23.648> you<00:29:23.824> know,<00:29:23.985> in<00:29:24.691> the<00:29:24.788> balance<00:29:25.045> sheet<00:29:25.831> of<00:29:26.795> a<00:29:26.955> company,<00:29:27.421> there<00:29:27.581> was<00:29:27.678> no<00:29:27.838> value<00:29:28.320> for<00:29:28.625> character<00:29:29.701> as<00:29:29.829> a<00:29:29.909> contributing<00:29:30.519> factor.

00:29:31.451 --> 00:29:39.064
And<00:29:31.595> so,<00:29:32.639> it<00:29:32.896> was<00:29:33.056> like,<00:29:33.441> geez,<00:29:33.698> maybe<00:29:33.923> we<00:29:34.019> could<00:29:34.180> do<00:29:34.822> Maybe<00:29:34.967> we<00:29:35.063> could<00:29:35.786> go<00:29:35.931> out<00:29:36.108> there<00:29:36.268> and<00:29:36.413> understand<00:29:36.911> that<00:29:37.152> a<00:29:37.168> little<00:29:37.473> better<00:29:37.714> than<00:29:37.955> zero,<00:29:38.743> you<00:29:38.775> know?

00:29:39.225 --> 00:29:40.976
And<00:29:39.723> that's<00:29:40.028> how<00:29:40.124> it<00:29:40.269> got<00:29:40.446> started.

00:29:41.313 --> 00:29:54.472
And<00:29:41.490> so<00:29:42.599> I<00:29:42.679> went<00:29:42.920> into<00:29:43.161> the<00:29:43.257> industrial<00:29:43.739> psych<00:29:44.061> world,<00:29:44.768> took<00:29:44.944> a<00:29:45.009> lot<00:29:45.185> of<00:29:45.266> those<00:29:45.523> systems<00:29:48.463> and<00:29:49.588> tried<00:29:49.861> to<00:29:49.925> apply<00:29:50.407> them<00:29:50.648> in<00:29:50.729> our<00:29:50.889> ability<00:29:51.355> to<00:29:51.452> kind<00:29:51.676> of<00:29:51.773> quantify<00:29:53.042> our<00:29:53.283> level<00:29:53.621> of<00:29:53.765> confidence.

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It's<00:29:55.452> not<00:29:55.693> an<00:29:55.950> absolute,<00:29:56.593> but<00:29:56.689> our<00:29:56.979> confidence<00:29:57.461> level<00:29:58.264> that<00:29:58.441> a<00:29:58.457> CEO<00:29:59.003> is<00:29:59.228> fitting<00:29:59.469> these<00:29:59.710> criteria.

00:30:00.353 --> 00:30:02.218
And<00:30:00.465> of<00:30:00.610> course,<00:30:01.172> Good<00:30:01.317> to<00:30:01.413> Great<00:30:01.719> was<00:30:01.960> out.

00:30:02.620 --> 00:30:10.441
Jim<00:30:02.845> Collins'<00:30:03.344> book<00:30:03.650> Level<00:30:03.827> 5<00:30:04.149> Leaders<00:30:04.615> was<00:30:04.856> also<00:30:05.613> a<00:30:05.677> confirmation<00:30:06.417> of<00:30:06.562> research,<00:30:07.608> you<00:30:07.704> know,<00:30:07.913> research<00:30:08.300> that<00:30:08.803> confirmed<00:30:09.776> the<00:30:09.938> idea.

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And<00:30:11.253> that's<00:30:11.480> how<00:30:11.658> it<00:30:11.902> originally<00:30:12.388> got<00:30:12.632> started.

00:30:13.773 --> 00:30:20.980
And<00:30:13.854> so,<00:30:14.016> we<00:30:14.259> placed<00:30:14.599> our<00:30:14.745> bets,<00:30:15.376> allocated<00:30:15.781> capital,<00:30:16.996> and<00:30:18.049> then<00:30:18.291> kind<00:30:18.486> of<00:30:18.955> walked<00:30:19.279> away,<00:30:19.700> if<00:30:19.830> you<00:30:19.992> will,<00:30:20.251> and<00:30:20.413> let<00:30:20.591> it<00:30:20.656> play.

00:30:23.684 --> 00:30:33.245
But<00:30:23.911> I'm<00:30:24.237> kind<00:30:24.887> of,<00:30:25.375> I<00:30:25.538> have<00:30:26.042> had<00:30:26.220> a<00:30:26.432> very<00:30:27.247> weird<00:30:27.585> and<00:30:27.827> strange<00:30:28.392> background<00:30:28.875> because<00:30:29.923> at<00:30:30.068> the<00:30:30.165> time<00:30:30.552> we<00:30:30.633> were<00:30:30.713> getting<00:30:30.971> to<00:30:31.052> know<00:30:31.213> the<00:30:31.374> president<00:30:31.713> of<00:30:31.778> Rwanda,<00:30:32.342> President<00:30:32.584> Paul<00:30:32.826> Kagame.

00:30:34.350 --> 00:30:40.423
And<00:30:35.026> we<00:30:35.187> felt<00:30:35.509> like<00:30:35.751> this<00:30:36.395> company<00:30:36.879> was<00:30:37.120> kind<00:30:37.281> of<00:30:37.362> like<00:30:37.523> a<00:30:37.539> mispriced—<00:30:38.570> or<00:30:38.731> this<00:30:38.892> country<00:30:39.279> was<00:30:39.359> like<00:30:39.537> a<00:30:39.553> mispriced<00:30:40.084> stock.

00:30:40.809 --> 00:30:43.564
Like<00:30:41.051> it<00:30:41.293> just<00:30:41.518> had<00:30:41.631> been<00:30:42.259> wrongly<00:30:42.597> priced<00:30:43.065> in<00:30:43.145> the<00:30:43.210> market.

00:30:44.516 --> 00:30:53.180
And<00:30:45.259> the<00:30:45.404> president<00:30:45.888> was<00:30:45.985> more<00:30:46.146> interested<00:30:46.630> in<00:30:46.872> meeting<00:30:47.211> American<00:30:47.663> industry<00:30:48.163> than<00:30:48.260> he<00:30:48.389> was<00:30:50.261> in<00:30:50.422> going<00:30:50.664> to,<00:30:50.729> say,<00:30:50.971> Washington,<00:30:51.471> D.C.<00:30:51.890> and<00:30:52.020> sitting<00:30:52.278> down<00:30:52.455> with<00:30:52.584> a<00:30:52.600> bunch<00:30:52.730> of<00:30:52.834> bureaucrats.

00:30:54.053 --> 00:30:57.118
And<00:30:54.679> we<00:30:54.839> had<00:30:54.935> the<00:30:55.096> list<00:30:55.497> of<00:30:55.641> all<00:30:55.738> the<00:30:55.818> great<00:30:56.059> CEOs<00:30:56.476> in<00:30:56.604> the<00:30:56.701> markets.

00:30:57.182 --> 00:31:00.295
And<00:30:57.246> so<00:30:58.803> I<00:30:58.851> was<00:30:59.011> like,<00:30:59.188> okay,<00:30:59.413> let's<00:30:59.734> call<00:30:59.894> them<00:31:00.135> up.

00:31:00.552 --> 00:31:08.190
So<00:31:00.696> I<00:31:00.712> started<00:31:01.033> calling<00:31:01.419> up<00:31:01.579> these<00:31:01.691> CEOs<00:31:02.702> on<00:31:02.783> our<00:31:03.103> character<00:31:03.521> list<00:31:04.419> and<00:31:04.564> say,<00:31:04.788> hey,<00:31:04.965> I<00:31:05.045> have<00:31:05.125> a<00:31:05.190> head<00:31:05.350> of<00:31:05.382> state<00:31:05.703> that<00:31:05.783> I'd<00:31:05.928> like<00:31:06.169> to<00:31:06.313> bring<00:31:06.473> to<00:31:06.506> your<00:31:06.730> headquarters<00:31:07.452> and<00:31:07.597> meet<00:31:07.773> with<00:31:07.998> you.

00:31:08.961 --> 00:31:10.758
And<00:31:09.153> so<00:31:09.683> that<00:31:09.875> started<00:31:10.261> happening.

00:31:10.886 --> 00:31:19.953
And<00:31:10.983> out<00:31:11.207> of<00:31:11.304> that,<00:31:11.689> we<00:31:11.785> formed<00:31:12.090> this<00:31:12.331> huge<00:31:12.668> network<00:31:13.165> of<00:31:13.294> friends<00:31:13.614> of<00:31:13.807> Rwanda<00:31:14.914> that<00:31:15.299> had<00:31:15.492> a<00:31:15.556> huge<00:31:16.439> contribution<00:31:17.177> on<00:31:17.321> changing<00:31:18.284> the<00:31:18.429> country<00:31:19.327> of<00:31:19.472> Rwanda.

00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:24.586
One<00:31:20.226> of<00:31:20.306> those<00:31:20.740> was,<00:31:21.252> as<00:31:21.397> I<00:31:21.429> mentioned<00:31:21.733> before,<00:31:22.054> is<00:31:22.214> the<00:31:22.358> BNSF<00:31:22.855> Railway<00:31:23.192> CEO,<00:31:23.881> Matt<00:31:24.137> Rose.

00:31:25.564 --> 00:31:35.453
And<00:31:26.686> he<00:31:26.782> put<00:31:26.942> up<00:31:27.070> his<00:31:27.167> hand<00:31:27.407> and<00:31:27.599> said,<00:31:27.808> "Hey,<00:31:27.984> listen,<00:31:29.250> I<00:31:29.346> can<00:31:29.491> help<00:31:29.683> you<00:31:30.693> not<00:31:31.254> lose<00:31:31.574> billions<00:31:32.007> of<00:31:32.071> dollars<00:31:32.552> in<00:31:32.712> Africa<00:31:33.914> by<00:31:34.315> developing<00:31:34.780> your<00:31:34.940> railways.

00:31:36.078 --> 00:31:43.146
Let<00:31:36.334> me<00:31:37.264> see<00:31:37.440> what<00:31:37.601> I<00:31:37.681> can<00:31:37.841> do<00:31:38.466> to<00:31:38.883> see<00:31:39.460> about<00:31:39.748> the<00:31:39.844> viability<00:31:40.325> of<00:31:40.405> a<00:31:40.470> corridor."<00:31:40.966> And<00:31:41.063> so<00:31:41.287> that<00:31:42.489> really<00:31:42.810> grabbed<00:31:43.082> me.

00:31:43.915 --> 00:31:52.669
And<00:31:44.893> that<00:31:45.198> led<00:31:45.775> to<00:31:45.935> about<00:31:46.191> a<00:31:46.336> 10,<00:31:46.977> 12-year<00:31:47.762> effort<00:31:48.179> to<00:31:48.339> try<00:31:48.499> to<00:31:48.660> build<00:31:48.820> a<00:31:48.900> railroad<00:31:49.445> from<00:31:49.862> Dar<00:31:50.247> es<00:31:50.423> Salaam<00:31:51.289> to<00:31:52.091> Rwanda.

00:31:53.631 --> 00:32:03.639
And<00:31:53.695> so<00:31:53.791> I<00:31:53.807> spent<00:31:54.192> that,<00:31:54.593> I<00:31:54.673> spent<00:31:54.930> about<00:31:55.155> 10<00:31:55.459> years<00:31:55.780> trying<00:31:56.037> to<00:31:56.197> do<00:31:56.357> this<00:31:57.785> and<00:31:58.122> with<00:31:58.443> one<00:31:58.747> of<00:31:58.924> the<00:31:59.004> CEOs<00:31:59.806> from<00:32:00.431> our<00:32:01.233> original<00:32:01.730> Character<00:32:02.212> Fund.

00:32:04.553 --> 00:32:12.749
And<00:32:04.682> then<00:32:05.724> ultimately<00:32:06.205> the<00:32:06.285> country<00:32:06.622> just<00:32:06.927> didn't<00:32:07.103> have<00:32:07.729> the<00:32:07.986> capacity<00:32:08.996> to<00:32:09.108> execute<00:32:09.830> on<00:32:10.889> a<00:32:11.338> project<00:32:11.739> finance<00:32:12.156> project<00:32:12.428> like<00:32:12.637> this.

00:32:12.797 --> 00:32:18.571
So<00:32:12.893> I<00:32:12.926> had<00:32:12.990> to<00:32:13.102> close<00:32:13.278> it<00:32:13.359> down<00:32:13.679> and<00:32:13.760> I<00:32:13.840> came<00:32:14.080> back<00:32:15.267> and<00:32:15.909> I<00:32:16.326> discovered<00:32:16.951> this<00:32:17.192> book,<00:32:17.448> Return<00:32:17.833> on<00:32:18.010> Character.

00:32:18.892 --> 00:32:19.728
By<00:32:19.053> Fred<00:32:19.374> Kiel.

00:32:20.338 --> 00:32:24.161
I<00:32:20.402> was<00:32:20.482> looking<00:32:20.675> around<00:32:21.061> the<00:32:21.141> state<00:32:21.286> of<00:32:21.382> the<00:32:21.527> world<00:32:21.687> and<00:32:21.800> saying,<00:32:22.008> we've<00:32:22.105> got<00:32:22.298> to<00:32:22.362> find<00:32:22.587> a<00:32:22.667> way<00:32:22.828> to<00:32:22.892> affirm<00:32:23.293> character<00:32:23.791> in<00:32:23.872> the<00:32:24.016> world.

00:32:24.835 --> 00:32:29.992
If<00:32:24.980> ever<00:32:25.157> there<00:32:25.301> was<00:32:25.542> a<00:32:25.703> person<00:32:26.024> that<00:32:26.185> maybe<00:32:26.442> could<00:32:26.683> do<00:32:26.843> it<00:32:26.940> in<00:32:27.020> the<00:32:27.084> marketplace,<00:32:27.727> it's<00:32:27.952> me<00:32:28.209> because<00:32:28.530> my<00:32:28.771> original<00:32:29.253> strategy.

00:32:31.421 --> 00:32:37.621
And<00:32:31.566> then<00:32:31.807> I<00:32:32.048> kind<00:32:32.224> of<00:32:32.305> tapped<00:32:32.610> my<00:32:32.786> network<00:32:33.814> of<00:32:33.991> high<00:32:34.152> net<00:32:34.377> worth<00:32:34.569> individuals<00:32:35.196> and<00:32:35.276> investors<00:32:36.401> and<00:32:36.529> pulled<00:32:36.706> together<00:32:37.107> a<00:32:37.204> group.

00:32:38.087 --> 00:32:43.870
My<00:32:39.292> principal<00:32:39.758> biggest<00:32:40.095> backer<00:32:40.577> is<00:32:40.802> this<00:32:41.300> incredible<00:32:41.846> company<00:32:42.183> called<00:32:42.504> Bridgeway<00:32:42.906> Capital<00:32:43.308> Management.

00:32:44.432 --> 00:32:49.618
And<00:32:44.576> they're<00:32:44.817> a<00:32:45.074> 30-year<00:32:46.519> mutual<00:32:46.905> fund<00:32:47.627> company<00:32:48.045> that's<00:32:48.286> been<00:32:48.446> around<00:32:48.767> for<00:32:48.928> 30<00:32:49.249> years.

00:32:50.277 --> 00:32:53.440
I<00:32:50.293> think<00:32:50.534> they<00:32:50.614> had<00:32:50.935> last<00:32:51.176> year<00:32:51.417> the<00:32:51.481> number<00:32:51.738> one<00:32:51.899> performing<00:32:52.380> mutual<00:32:52.701> fund<00:32:52.878> in<00:32:53.007> the<00:32:53.087> world.

00:32:54.468 --> 00:33:04.969
Its<00:32:54.628> founder,<00:32:55.752> John<00:32:55.929> Montgomery,<00:32:57.197> has<00:32:58.562> led<00:32:58.787> the<00:32:58.883> company<00:33:00.104> and<00:33:00.955> the<00:33:01.051> company's<00:33:01.517> given<00:33:01.710> away<00:33:02.095> 50%<00:33:02.641> of<00:33:02.818> its<00:33:02.978> profits<00:33:04.263> for<00:33:04.504> 30<00:33:04.889> years.

00:33:06.414 --> 00:33:12.099
But<00:33:07.715> they<00:33:07.956> signed<00:33:08.438> up<00:33:08.662> with<00:33:09.947> and<00:33:10.043> they<00:33:10.429> loved<00:33:10.910> what<00:33:11.007> we<00:33:11.071> were<00:33:11.232> doing<00:33:11.488> with<00:33:11.713> Rocky.

00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:16.899
And<00:33:14.965> the<00:33:15.063> idea<00:33:15.469> around<00:33:15.875> investing<00:33:16.200> in<00:33:16.444> character.

00:33:18.983 --> 00:33:22.462
And<00:33:19.064> then<00:33:19.226> they<00:33:19.453> were<00:33:19.550> able<00:33:19.857> to<00:33:20.035> dig<00:33:20.262> into<00:33:20.423> all<00:33:20.601> the<00:33:20.747> historical<00:33:21.248> data<00:33:21.572> that<00:33:21.734> I<00:33:21.750> did<00:33:21.977> with<00:33:22.138> Joe.

00:33:23.271 --> 00:33:34.960
And<00:33:23.659> we<00:33:23.902> really<00:33:24.549> kind<00:33:24.727> of<00:33:24.808> came<00:33:25.050> together<00:33:25.536> and<00:33:25.859> ultimately<00:33:26.523> ended<00:33:26.765> up<00:33:26.960> launching<00:33:28.100> an<00:33:28.261> ETF<00:33:28.775> around<00:33:29.080> the<00:33:29.160> strategy<00:33:30.703> so<00:33:30.912> that<00:33:31.169> anybody<00:33:31.570> can<00:33:31.731> invest<00:33:32.068> in<00:33:32.197> character,<00:33:33.032> not<00:33:33.338> just<00:33:33.643> the<00:33:33.723> high-net-worth<00:33:34.382> individuals.

00:33:35.024 --> 00:33:36.519
So,<00:33:35.169> that's<00:33:35.410> a<00:33:35.506> little<00:33:35.747> bit<00:33:35.908> of<00:33:36.004> a<00:33:36.069> thumbnail.

00:33:36.647 --> 00:33:37.499
I'm<00:33:36.760> sorry,<00:33:36.877> it's<00:33:37.045> a<00:33:37.062> little<00:33:37.213> long.

00:33:38.943 --> 00:33:41.576
Of<00:33:39.040> my<00:33:39.347> past<00:33:39.783> and<00:33:39.993> how<00:33:40.494> I<00:33:40.720> got<00:33:40.898> to<00:33:40.995> where<00:33:41.108> I'm<00:33:41.221> going<00:33:41.463> now.

00:33:42.174 --> 00:33:44.500
No,<00:33:42.335> something<00:33:42.658> you<00:33:42.901> did<00:33:43.014> in<00:33:43.143> 2013<00:33:43.821> is<00:33:43.951> really<00:33:44.128> interesting.

00:33:44.613 --> 00:33:45.501
This<00:33:44.920> railway.

00:33:46.696 --> 00:33:51.015
Can<00:33:46.777> you<00:33:46.874> tell<00:33:47.036> us<00:33:47.181> more<00:33:47.423> about<00:33:47.650> this<00:33:47.994> railway<00:33:48.667> that<00:33:48.832> you<00:33:49.061> helped<00:33:50.375> get<00:33:50.539> together?

00:33:53.110 --> 00:34:06.936
Well,<00:33:53.953> I<00:33:54.034> mean,<00:33:54.748> one<00:33:54.910> of<00:33:54.942> the<00:33:54.975> things<00:33:55.088> that's<00:33:55.251> interesting<00:33:55.802> is<00:33:55.964> that<00:33:56.305> at<00:33:56.451> the<00:33:56.548> time,<00:33:56.937> because<00:33:57.197> of<00:33:57.765> the<00:33:58.008> original<00:33:58.413> character<00:33:58.819> fund,<00:33:59.305> we<00:33:59.533> had<00:34:00.019> been<00:34:00.181> able<00:34:00.490> to<00:34:03.033> amass<00:34:03.599> this<00:34:03.842> extraordinary<00:34:04.814> group<00:34:05.057> of<00:34:05.122> people<00:34:05.786> around<00:34:06.110> trying<00:34:06.369> to<00:34:06.499> help<00:34:06.677> Rwanda.

00:34:07.443 --> 00:34:13.996
I<00:34:07.459> mean,<00:34:08.009> it<00:34:08.090> was<00:34:08.398> like,<00:34:08.818> you<00:34:09.870> know,<00:34:10.258> there<00:34:11.877> wasn't<00:34:12.136> almost<00:34:12.443> anybody<00:34:12.864> that<00:34:13.026> we<00:34:13.187> couldn't<00:34:13.430> get<00:34:13.673> to.

00:34:14.385 --> 00:34:30.936
And<00:34:14.708> I<00:34:14.725> was<00:34:14.951> looking<00:34:15.226> around<00:34:15.679> and<00:34:15.776> I<00:34:15.922> couldn't<00:34:16.149> help<00:34:16.230> but<00:34:16.407> feel<00:34:16.681> like<00:34:17.534> this<00:34:17.953> massive<00:34:18.420> influence<00:34:18.855> and<00:34:18.920> power,<00:34:19.661> we<00:34:19.741> need<00:34:19.886> to<00:34:20.047> direct<00:34:20.547> it<00:34:20.933> into<00:34:21.400> a<00:34:21.723> generational<00:34:22.464> transformational<00:34:23.350> project<00:34:24.139> that<00:34:24.300> could<00:34:24.558> really<00:34:24.944> move<00:34:25.090> the<00:34:25.138> needle<00:34:27.609> on<00:34:27.770> Rwanda<00:34:28.271> because<00:34:28.659> we<00:34:28.820> had<00:34:29.062> all<00:34:29.159> this<00:34:30.451> interest.

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:46.337
And<00:34:34.084> And<00:34:34.244> so<00:34:35.271> Rwanda,<00:34:35.832> we<00:34:35.928> turned<00:34:36.634> out,<00:34:37.211> uh,<00:34:38.655> I<00:34:38.735> think<00:34:38.911> it<00:34:39.056> was<00:34:39.216> one<00:34:39.360> of<00:34:39.440> the<00:34:40.018> most<00:34:40.339> expensive<00:34:40.980> corridors<00:34:41.766> in<00:34:41.942> the<00:34:42.087> world<00:34:42.648> traveling<00:34:43.626> on<00:34:43.867> truck<00:34:44.348> from<00:34:44.749> Dar<00:34:44.925> es<00:34:44.989> Salaam<00:34:45.551> to<00:34:45.855> Rwanda.

00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:55.462
And<00:34:47.315> so<00:34:48.502> as<00:34:48.614> a<00:34:48.678> consequence,<00:34:49.720> Rwanda,<00:34:50.907> 40%<00:34:51.388> of<00:34:52.286> everything<00:34:52.671> that's<00:34:52.848> shipped<00:34:53.233> into<00:34:53.730> Rwanda<00:34:54.355> is<00:34:54.451> transportation<00:34:55.157> costs.

00:34:56.472 --> 00:35:11.782
And<00:34:56.600> so<00:34:56.761> you<00:34:56.921> think<00:34:57.098> about<00:34:57.499> a<00:34:57.595> nation<00:34:58.220> that's<00:34:58.862> that's<00:34:59.904> isolated<00:35:00.609> in<00:35:00.689> the<00:35:00.769> middle<00:35:01.090> of<00:35:01.250> Africa,<00:35:02.324> if<00:35:02.388> they<00:35:02.533> did<00:35:02.853> everything<00:35:03.334> like<00:35:03.671> we<00:35:04.232> did<00:35:04.408> in<00:35:04.472> the<00:35:04.617> West<00:35:04.969> as<00:35:05.098> far<00:35:05.258> as<00:35:05.354> efficiencies,<00:35:06.059> they'd<00:35:06.220> still<00:35:06.797> be<00:35:06.941> at<00:35:07.021> a<00:35:07.182> 40%<00:35:07.903> discount<00:35:09.442> in<00:35:09.538> efficiency<00:35:10.227> relative<00:35:10.596> to<00:35:11.125> everybody<00:35:11.590> else.

00:35:11.847 --> 00:35:20.567
And<00:35:11.927> so<00:35:12.728> it<00:35:12.808> was<00:35:12.969> an<00:35:13.113> obvious<00:35:13.514> thing,<00:35:13.850> like,<00:35:15.037> how<00:35:15.133> do<00:35:15.373> you<00:35:16.191> improve<00:35:16.800> that<00:35:17.618> distribution<00:35:18.259> problem<00:35:19.445> and<00:35:19.525> transportation<00:35:20.263> costs?

00:35:20.968 --> 00:35:30.390
And<00:35:21.305> so<00:35:22.908> we<00:35:23.068> first,<00:35:23.373> we<00:35:23.886> set<00:35:24.190> out<00:35:24.511> and<00:35:25.715> Everybody<00:35:26.181> thought<00:35:26.374> it<00:35:26.599> wasn't<00:35:26.840> possible,<00:35:27.884> meaning<00:35:28.286> it<00:35:28.366> wasn't<00:35:28.752> economically<00:35:29.426> a<00:35:29.555> viable<00:35:29.973> idea.

00:35:30.455 --> 00:35:36.721
Wouldn't,<00:35:31.322> wouldn't<00:35:31.885> hold<00:35:32.206> up<00:35:32.399> to<00:35:32.865> a<00:35:32.945> capital<00:35:33.411> outlay<00:35:33.909> of<00:35:34.632> that<00:35:34.873> kind<00:35:35.034> of<00:35:35.114> an<00:35:35.210> investment<00:35:35.741> strategy.

00:35:37.910 --> 00:35:47.212
Capital<00:35:38.890> investment<00:35:39.356> into<00:35:39.629> infrastructure,<00:35:40.962> and<00:35:41.284> we<00:35:41.444> proved<00:35:41.685> that<00:35:41.846> there<00:35:41.943> was<00:35:42.184> enough<00:35:42.971> transportation<00:35:44.272> volume<00:35:44.754> on<00:35:44.835> the<00:35:44.979> corridor<00:35:45.397> to<00:35:45.638> justify<00:35:46.056> the<00:35:46.200> capital<00:35:46.666> allocation.

00:35:48.032 --> 00:35:55.786
And<00:35:48.530> then<00:35:49.639> I<00:35:49.815> realized<00:35:51.004> that<00:35:51.646> So,<00:35:51.919> if<00:35:52.048> you<00:35:52.609> create<00:35:52.866> a<00:35:52.882> study,<00:35:53.331> you<00:35:53.411> don't<00:35:53.604> necessarily<00:35:55.192> create<00:35:55.433> a<00:35:55.513> deal.

00:35:55.850 --> 00:35:57.615
So,<00:35:56.139> we<00:35:56.235> set<00:35:56.540> out<00:35:56.716> then<00:35:56.893> to<00:35:57.021> create<00:35:57.342> a<00:35:57.358> deal.

00:35:58.096 --> 00:36:03.727
And<00:35:59.364> we<00:35:59.508> got<00:36:00.150> expressions<00:36:01.128> of<00:36:01.273> interest<00:36:01.529> from<00:36:01.850> Ex-Im<00:36:02.171> Bank<00:36:02.476> of<00:36:02.733> up<00:36:02.877> to<00:36:02.957> $6<00:36:03.294> billion.

00:36:04.802 --> 00:36:07.883
Bechtel<00:36:05.220> was<00:36:05.444> our<00:36:05.637> lead<00:36:06.968> construction<00:36:07.466> manager.

00:36:08.733 --> 00:36:13.033
And<00:36:09.134> HDR<00:36:11.092> Engineering<00:36:11.717> was<00:36:11.862> our<00:36:12.038> engineering<00:36:12.520> partner.

00:36:14.108 --> 00:36:21.920
GE<00:36:14.589> was<00:36:14.750> going<00:36:15.151> to<00:36:15.792> supply<00:36:16.290> us<00:36:17.333> and<00:36:17.477> we<00:36:17.637> were<00:36:17.734> going<00:36:17.830> to<00:36:17.878> work<00:36:18.054> with<00:36:18.215> them<00:36:18.439> with<00:36:19.338> engines<00:36:19.883> and<00:36:21.182> rolling<00:36:21.487> stock.

00:36:22.546 --> 00:36:28.337
BNSF<00:36:23.091> was<00:36:23.204> going<00:36:23.332> to<00:36:23.412> mentor<00:36:23.893> us,<00:36:24.310> you<00:36:24.391> know,<00:36:24.567> mentor<00:36:24.936> the<00:36:25.000> new<00:36:25.193> company<00:36:25.979> into<00:36:27.743> existence.

00:36:28.401 --> 00:36:38.539
We<00:36:28.529> had<00:36:28.866> about<00:36:29.219> $300<00:36:29.604> million<00:36:29.925> lined<00:36:30.229> up<00:36:30.406> to<00:36:31.112> launch<00:36:31.432> the<00:36:31.593> new<00:36:31.689> railroad<00:36:32.154> company,<00:36:33.053> which<00:36:33.293> means<00:36:33.999> buying<00:36:34.240> rolling<00:36:34.496> stock<00:36:34.801> and<00:36:35.058> all<00:36:35.218> the<00:36:35.362> things<00:36:35.539> you<00:36:35.619> need<00:36:35.844> to<00:36:35.940> be<00:36:36.020> able<00:36:36.261> to<00:36:36.421> operate<00:36:36.758> a<00:36:36.822> new<00:36:37.047> railroad.

00:36:39.533 --> 00:36:48.555
But<00:36:39.694> ultimately,<00:36:41.394> there<00:36:41.554> were<00:36:41.715> several<00:36:42.180> administrations<00:36:42.998> in<00:36:43.078> Tanzania<00:36:43.960> that<00:36:44.524> just<00:36:44.770> weren't<00:36:45.098> actuating<00:36:46.327> on<00:36:46.474> the<00:36:46.556> need<00:36:46.966> for<00:36:47.064> a<00:36:47.375> railroad<00:36:47.883> in<00:36:47.949> their<00:36:48.195> country.

00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:56.115
And<00:36:50.223> then<00:36:52.230> we<00:36:52.392> finally<00:36:52.732> ended<00:36:52.958> up<00:36:53.120> with<00:36:53.282> one<00:36:53.460> that<00:36:53.541> just<00:36:54.010> stopped<00:36:54.367> talking<00:36:54.820> to<00:36:54.917> business<00:36:55.386> altogether.

00:36:58.228 --> 00:36:59.647
And<00:36:58.373> we<00:36:58.550> had<00:36:58.776> to<00:36:59.018> close<00:36:59.292> up<00:36:59.357> shop.

00:36:59.744 --> 00:37:00.696
We<00:36:59.825> had<00:36:59.938> to<00:37:00.244> walk<00:37:00.486> away.

00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:02.228
We<00:37:00.954> couldn't<00:37:01.260> justify<00:37:01.777> continuing.

00:37:03.067 --> 00:37:04.003
It<00:37:03.293> was<00:37:03.470> very<00:37:03.696> sad.

00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:04.696
Yeah.

00:37:04.987 --> 00:37:07.769
But<00:37:05.148> I<00:37:05.164> was<00:37:05.342> super<00:37:05.890> proud<00:37:07.100> of<00:37:07.245> what<00:37:07.326> we<00:37:07.424> did.

00:37:07.819 --> 00:37:14.165
I<00:37:07.852> mean,<00:37:08.246> it<00:37:08.410> wasn't,<00:37:09.215> you<00:37:09.248> know,<00:37:09.380> we<00:37:09.412> didn't<00:37:10.454> lose<00:37:10.679> the<00:37:10.775> deal<00:37:11.016> because<00:37:11.241> of<00:37:11.402> corruption<00:37:12.141> or<00:37:12.285> because<00:37:12.462> of<00:37:12.623> China<00:37:13.089> or<00:37:13.346> anything<00:37:13.603> like<00:37:13.892> that.

00:37:14.230 --> 00:37:20.577
It<00:37:14.374> was<00:37:14.631> really<00:37:14.937> institutional<00:37:15.515> capacity<00:37:16.013> on<00:37:16.078> the<00:37:16.158> Tanzanian<00:37:16.720> side<00:37:17.829> that<00:37:18.166> didn't<00:37:19.307> seem<00:37:19.613> to<00:37:19.757> be<00:37:19.934> there<00:37:20.239> yet.

00:37:21.926 --> 00:37:26.152
And<00:37:22.103> maybe<00:37:23.854> I<00:37:24.192> wasn't<00:37:24.497> good<00:37:24.674> at<00:37:24.754> communicating<00:37:25.461> what<00:37:25.542> we<00:37:25.622> were<00:37:25.799> offering.

00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:26.538
I<00:37:26.233> don't<00:37:26.377> know.

00:37:26.602 --> 00:37:29.012
I<00:37:26.763> probably<00:37:27.084> have<00:37:27.647> some<00:37:27.872> responsibility<00:37:28.691> also.

00:37:29.173 --> 00:37:34.893
But<00:37:29.880> ultimately,<00:37:32.853> it<00:37:33.817> was<00:37:33.913> an<00:37:34.010> extraordinary<00:37:34.556> project.

00:37:35.022 --> 00:37:48.446
We<00:37:35.102> would<00:37:35.199> have<00:37:35.343> dropped<00:37:36.884> With<00:37:36.964> transportation<00:37:38.151> costs<00:37:38.632> close<00:37:38.888> to<00:37:39.113> half,<00:37:39.931> it<00:37:40.011> would<00:37:40.139> have<00:37:40.316> impacted<00:37:40.877> over<00:37:40.957> 130<00:37:41.855> million<00:37:42.256> people's<00:37:43.042> lives<00:37:44.325> and<00:37:44.485> impacted<00:37:45.463> over<00:37:45.688> 5<00:37:46.249> nations<00:37:47.291> in<00:37:47.708> perpetuity.

00:37:49.569 --> 00:37:52.359
So<00:37:49.809> it<00:37:49.873> was<00:37:50.034> definitely<00:37:50.499> worth<00:37:51.397> trying<00:37:52.102> for.

00:37:53.161 --> 00:37:54.764
That's<00:37:53.401> one<00:37:53.546> of<00:37:53.578> the<00:37:53.626> things<00:37:53.786> that<00:37:53.882> Joe<00:37:54.107> always<00:37:54.444> taught<00:37:54.684> me.

00:37:54.909 --> 00:38:02.061
I<00:37:54.925> mean,<00:37:55.807> my<00:37:55.967> mentor<00:37:56.352> Joe,<00:37:57.474> he<00:37:57.651> would<00:37:57.811> go<00:37:58.116> after<00:37:58.372> things<00:37:58.854> if<00:37:59.014> there<00:37:59.158> was<00:37:59.271> a<00:37:59.399> chance<00:37:59.816> to<00:38:00.313> move<00:38:00.618> the<00:38:00.698> needle<00:38:01.163> in<00:38:01.243> a<00:38:01.403> giant<00:38:01.884> way.

00:38:02.750 --> 00:38:11.957
Even<00:38:02.960> if<00:38:03.121> the<00:38:03.282> odds<00:38:03.476> are<00:38:03.540> against<00:38:04.008> you,<00:38:05.717> that<00:38:05.959> chance<00:38:06.685> to<00:38:07.233> have<00:38:07.410> such<00:38:07.652> a<00:38:07.717> huge<00:38:08.281> disproportionate<00:38:08.942> impact<00:38:10.474> was<00:38:10.571> something<00:38:10.942> that<00:38:11.119> he<00:38:11.280> always<00:38:11.410> went<00:38:11.667> for.

00:38:12.973 --> 00:38:16.422
And<00:38:13.215> he<00:38:13.376> certainly<00:38:13.763> inspired<00:38:14.262> me<00:38:14.423> in<00:38:14.568> the<00:38:14.649> pursuit<00:38:15.149> of<00:38:15.326> trying<00:38:15.551> to<00:38:15.697> build<00:38:15.858> this<00:38:16.035> railroad.

00:38:17.405 --> 00:38:20.596
What<00:38:17.502> do<00:38:17.631> you<00:38:17.727> hope<00:38:17.969> your<00:38:18.275> legacy<00:38:18.839> is<00:38:19.097> when<00:38:19.258> you're<00:38:20.048> done<00:38:20.225> with<00:38:20.451> this?

00:38:26.481 --> 00:38:46.267
The<00:38:26.562> big<00:38:26.805> dream<00:38:27.210> is<00:38:27.534> that<00:38:27.794> if<00:38:27.923> we're<00:38:28.102> able<00:38:28.409> to<00:38:28.895> show<00:38:29.333> that<00:38:31.145> these<00:38:31.465> character<00:38:33.470> characteristics—<00:38:34.416> integrity,<00:38:34.913> responsibility,<00:38:35.715> forgiveness,<00:38:36.212> and<00:38:36.341> compassion—<00:38:37.720> outperform<00:38:38.265> the<00:38:38.297> market<00:38:38.698> over<00:38:38.923> time,<00:38:40.510> that<00:38:41.392> it<00:38:41.569> will<00:38:41.665> start<00:38:42.194> to<00:38:42.370> inform<00:38:43.012> the<00:38:43.172> way<00:38:43.413> leaders<00:38:43.798> are<00:38:43.894> chosen<00:38:45.081> in<00:38:45.337> American<00:38:45.818> industry.

00:38:47.406 --> 00:38:53.356
And<00:38:48.288> boards<00:38:49.523> of<00:38:49.828> directors<00:38:50.389> maybe<00:38:50.614> start<00:38:50.934> asking,<00:38:51.271> why<00:38:51.431> isn't<00:38:52.057> our<00:38:52.169> CEO<00:38:52.634> on<00:38:52.714> the<00:38:52.875> list?

00:38:53.436 --> 00:39:05.238
Or<00:38:54.061> how<00:38:54.238> do<00:38:54.382> we<00:38:54.543> hire<00:38:54.799> a<00:38:54.815> CEO<00:38:55.505> that<00:38:57.351> Shucks,<00:38:58.251> amplify<00:38:58.797> some<00:38:58.990> of<00:39:00.162> these<00:39:00.596> characteristics<00:39:01.608> because<00:39:01.800> it's<00:39:02.025> been<00:39:02.186> shown<00:39:03.134> to<00:39:03.374> outperform.

00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:21.701
To<00:39:05.703> me,<00:39:05.960> that<00:39:06.185> would<00:39:06.346> be<00:39:06.442> an<00:39:06.844> extraordinary<00:39:07.567> contribution<00:39:09.333> to<00:39:10.297> the<00:39:10.843> collective<00:39:11.486> culture<00:39:12.947> of<00:39:13.895> American<00:39:14.875> business<00:39:16.641> because<00:39:17.220> American<00:39:18.231> business,<00:39:18.794> I<00:39:19.195> believe,<00:39:19.613> leads<00:39:21.203> Washington.

00:39:23.179 --> 00:39:26.135
And<00:39:23.325> they<00:39:23.567> have<00:39:23.809> the<00:39:23.906> power<00:39:24.229> to<00:39:24.391> lead<00:39:25.134> in<00:39:25.263> the<00:39:25.424> right<00:39:25.683> direction.

00:39:26.636 --> 00:39:34.490
You<00:39:26.668> know,<00:39:28.089> we<00:39:28.251> tend<00:39:28.429> to<00:39:28.509> highlight<00:39:29.139> and<00:39:29.236> think<00:39:29.414> about<00:39:29.963> a<00:39:30.108> lot<00:39:30.431> of<00:39:30.528> the<00:39:30.593> folks<00:39:31.093> that<00:39:31.723> lead<00:39:31.901> in<00:39:31.950> the<00:39:32.062> wrong<00:39:32.368> direction,<00:39:32.946> but<00:39:33.091> there's<00:39:33.332> a<00:39:33.429> lot<00:39:33.670> of<00:39:33.750> good<00:39:33.975> ones<00:39:34.232> too.

00:39:35.277 --> 00:39:50.596
And<00:39:35.840> our<00:39:36.065> hope<00:39:36.467> is<00:39:36.708> that<00:39:37.834> we,<00:39:38.573> we<00:39:38.718> can<00:39:38.895> really<00:39:39.216> impact<00:39:41.465> the<00:39:41.628> ratio<00:39:43.841> of<00:39:43.938> CEOs<00:39:44.654> that<00:39:45.289> are<00:39:47.440> directionally<00:39:49.699> leading<00:39:50.019> with<00:39:50.195> character.

00:39:51.701 --> 00:39:54.809
And<00:39:53.079> that<00:39:53.544> would<00:39:53.704> be<00:39:53.800> exciting.

00:39:55.947 --> 00:40:07.674
Ultimately,<00:39:56.427> too,<00:39:56.620> it's<00:39:56.828> always<00:39:57.084> fun<00:39:57.277> to<00:39:57.421> imagine<00:39:58.526> being<00:39:58.767> able<00:39:59.007> to<00:39:59.167> continue<00:40:01.875> what<00:40:02.051> I<00:40:02.115> like<00:40:02.291> to<00:40:02.371> call<00:40:02.676> cross-pollinization<00:40:03.797> of<00:40:03.893> character<00:40:04.791> across<00:40:05.175> sectors<00:40:06.056> for<00:40:06.281> no<00:40:06.441> economic<00:40:07.001> interest.

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There's<00:40:08.764> such<00:40:09.036> a<00:40:09.164> joy<00:40:10.398> of<00:40:10.542> connecting<00:40:12.128> people<00:40:12.465> that<00:40:13.106> value<00:40:13.506> character<00:40:14.548> and<00:40:15.124> seeing<00:40:15.429> them<00:40:15.573> help<00:40:15.813> each<00:40:15.989> other.

00:40:16.294 --> 00:40:17.287
We<00:40:16.390> did<00:40:16.550> that<00:40:16.774> in<00:40:16.806> Rwanda.

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At<00:40:18.409> a<00:40:18.556> really<00:40:18.720> exciting<00:40:19.308> scale.

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And<00:40:21.633> then<00:40:21.859> also,<00:40:22.342> Clint,<00:40:22.584> I<00:40:22.681> think<00:40:22.842> the<00:40:22.923> last<00:40:23.164> thing<00:40:23.326> would<00:40:23.551> be,<00:40:24.535> and<00:40:24.680> this<00:40:24.857> is<00:40:24.938> kind<00:40:25.099> of<00:40:25.179> a<00:40:25.325> call<00:40:25.518> to<00:40:25.582> arms,<00:40:26.002> if<00:40:26.131> you<00:40:26.211> will,<00:40:27.049> in<00:40:27.178> a<00:40:27.259> good<00:40:27.420> way,<00:40:28.596> is,<00:40:28.677> you<00:40:28.709> know,<00:40:28.920> building<00:40:29.261> a<00:40:29.343> community<00:40:30.398> of<00:40:30.544> investors<00:40:31.128> that<00:40:31.356> really<00:40:32.005> think<00:40:32.249> character<00:40:32.655> matters<00:40:33.174> and<00:40:33.255> are<00:40:33.385> willing<00:40:33.661> to<00:40:33.872> allocate<00:40:35.106> on<00:40:35.187> that<00:40:35.496> basis,<00:40:36.307> you<00:40:36.340> know,<00:40:37.850> and<00:40:38.011> get<00:40:38.173> to<00:40:38.205> know<00:40:38.496> one<00:40:38.690> another<00:40:39.143> too.

00:40:40.290 --> 00:40:53.084
I<00:40:40.452> think<00:40:40.678> this<00:40:40.921> is<00:40:41.907> easily<00:40:42.375> can<00:40:42.488> be<00:40:42.634> called<00:40:42.893> a<00:40:43.022> cause<00:40:43.377> of<00:40:43.523> sorts<00:40:44.089> that<00:40:44.909> oh,<00:40:45.070> happens<00:40:45.491> to<00:40:45.637> be<00:40:45.815> just<00:40:46.058> an<00:40:46.155> investment<00:40:46.705> that<00:40:46.851> actually<00:40:48.324> performed<00:40:49.053> pretty<00:40:49.296> darn<00:40:49.603> well<00:40:50.105> and<00:40:50.445> it's<00:40:50.672> fully<00:40:50.979> liquid<00:40:51.319> that<00:40:51.465> you<00:40:51.497> have<00:40:51.708> access<00:40:52.048> to<00:40:52.436> all<00:40:52.517> the<00:40:52.550> time.

00:40:53.666 --> 00:40:58.277
But<00:40:53.747> just<00:40:54.150> by<00:40:55.279> allocating<00:40:56.262> this<00:40:56.423> way,<00:40:57.133> we're<00:40:57.471> making<00:40:57.874> a<00:40:57.939> statement.

00:40:59.706 --> 00:41:20.566
And<00:41:00.381> it's<00:41:00.525> kind<00:41:00.702> of,<00:41:00.927> we<00:41:01.152> need<00:41:01.650> people<00:41:02.678> to<00:41:03.080> call<00:41:03.401> up<00:41:05.425> their<00:41:05.650> brokers<00:41:06.132> and<00:41:06.244> say,<00:41:06.550> listen,<00:41:07.015> if<00:41:07.176> I<00:41:07.256> have<00:41:07.417> any<00:41:07.754> large-cap<00:41:09.216> exposure,<00:41:10.372> put<00:41:10.613> the<00:41:10.694> large-cap<00:41:11.497> exposure<00:41:12.059> in<00:41:12.204> this<00:41:13.907> return<00:41:14.229> on<00:41:14.373> character<00:41:15.514> strategy,<00:41:16.398> as<00:41:16.494> opposed<00:41:16.783> to<00:41:16.880> just<00:41:17.764> putting<00:41:18.085> it<00:41:18.390> everywhere<00:41:19.129> in<00:41:19.210> just<00:41:19.451> broad<00:41:19.692> market<00:41:20.016> exposure.

00:41:21.214 --> 00:41:47.276
And<00:41:21.295> so<00:41:21.473> for<00:41:21.635> me,<00:41:22.105> that<00:41:22.526> would<00:41:22.672> be<00:41:22.769> a<00:41:22.915> wonderful<00:41:23.983> thing<00:41:24.226> is<00:41:24.388> that<00:41:24.550> we<00:41:24.712> just<00:41:24.858> have<00:41:25.036> a<00:41:25.117> network<00:41:25.538> of<00:41:25.684> rock,<00:41:27.206> a<00:41:27.303> rock<00:41:27.562> community<00:41:28.112> that<00:41:28.755> values<00:41:29.156> character<00:41:30.426> and<00:41:30.522> is<00:41:30.619> starting<00:41:31.165> to<00:41:31.406> think<00:41:31.743> more<00:41:32.434> when<00:41:32.531> they<00:41:32.756> allocate<00:41:33.880> in<00:41:33.961> the<00:41:34.041> sense<00:41:34.459> that<00:41:35.487> when<00:41:35.584> I<00:41:35.664> put<00:41:35.841> my<00:41:36.066> money<00:41:36.371> in<00:41:36.403> a<00:41:36.612> company,<00:41:37.174> I'm<00:41:37.995> not<00:41:38.238> just<00:41:38.481> affirming<00:41:38.967> that<00:41:39.210> business<00:41:39.598> strategy,<00:41:40.440> I'm<00:41:41.542> also<00:41:42.060> affirming<00:41:43.242> the<00:41:43.421> leader's<00:41:44.311> behaviors<00:41:45.834> and<00:41:46.174> their<00:41:46.725> values.

00:41:50.791 --> 00:41:52.022
And<00:41:51.115> do<00:41:51.261> I<00:41:51.358> really<00:41:51.585> want<00:41:51.763> to<00:41:51.860> do<00:41:51.925> that?

00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:53.664
Right.

00:41:54.022 --> 00:41:59.156
And<00:41:54.444> so<00:41:56.215> I<00:41:56.296> think<00:41:56.459> for<00:41:56.573> the<00:41:56.686> first<00:41:56.865> time,<00:41:57.499> you<00:41:57.580> actually<00:41:57.775> now<00:41:57.889> have<00:41:58.019> a<00:41:58.067> choice,<00:41:58.961> right?

00:41:59.448 --> 00:42:12.012
You<00:41:59.546> can<00:41:59.790> decide,<00:42:03.266> whether<00:42:03.683> or<00:42:03.843> not<00:42:05.689> you<00:42:05.769> want<00:42:06.058> to<00:42:06.716> be<00:42:06.796> intentional<00:42:07.438> about<00:42:07.759> your<00:42:08.016> allocation<00:42:09.059> when<00:42:09.204> it<00:42:09.300> comes<00:42:09.621> to<00:42:09.765> behavior<00:42:10.183> of<00:42:10.263> leaders<00:42:11.306> in<00:42:11.386> the<00:42:11.466> marketplace.

00:42:13.071 --> 00:42:20.678
Well,<00:42:13.296> Dan,<00:42:14.179> what<00:42:14.355> you're<00:42:14.516> about<00:42:14.997> and<00:42:15.142> what<00:42:15.318> you're<00:42:16.040> doing<00:42:16.666> is<00:42:17.164> fascinating<00:42:18.287> and<00:42:18.383> it's<00:42:18.929> having<00:42:19.186> an<00:42:19.250> impact<00:42:19.651> in<00:42:19.715> the<00:42:19.796> world<00:42:20.036> already,<00:42:20.373> I<00:42:20.454> know.

00:42:21.192 --> 00:42:22.347
I'm<00:42:21.336> sure<00:42:21.497> we'll<00:42:21.673> have<00:42:21.818> you<00:42:21.882> on<00:42:22.042> again.

00:42:22.925 --> 00:42:29.569
What<00:42:23.037> an<00:42:23.166> honor<00:42:23.503> to<00:42:23.583> talk<00:42:23.888> to<00:42:23.968> you<00:42:24.145> and<00:42:24.225> for<00:42:24.450> you<00:42:24.787> to<00:42:24.883> spend<00:42:25.172> some<00:42:25.332> time<00:42:25.573> with<00:42:25.750> us<00:42:26.055> on<00:42:27.274> this<00:42:27.435> whole<00:42:27.659> idea<00:42:27.916> of<00:42:28.077> character<00:42:28.558> and<00:42:28.703> how<00:42:28.863> you're<00:42:28.959> investing<00:42:29.457> in<00:42:29.521> it.

00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:30.388
This<00:42:29.842> is<00:42:29.987> beautiful.

00:42:31.368 --> 00:42:32.459
Hey,<00:42:31.689> thanks<00:42:31.930> for<00:42:32.010> caring.

00:42:32.636 --> 00:42:33.696
Thanks<00:42:32.893> for<00:42:32.957> having<00:42:33.230> us<00:42:33.439> on<00:42:33.615> it.

00:42:34.418 --> 00:42:35.221
We<00:42:34.515> appreciate<00:42:35.125> it.

00:42:35.446 --> 00:42:43.667
And<00:42:37.148> if<00:42:37.292> you<00:42:37.453> ever<00:42:37.614> want<00:42:37.790> to<00:42:37.854> talk<00:42:38.111> about<00:42:38.352> character<00:42:39.621> in<00:42:39.717> leadership<00:42:41.387> or<00:42:42.206> investing<00:42:42.704> again,<00:42:43.041> I'm<00:42:43.249> always<00:42:43.555> here.

00:42:44.598 --> 00:42:44.903
I<00:42:44.614> love<00:42:44.855> it.

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Thank<00:42:45.240> you,<00:42:45.337> Dan.

```