> ## Content Index
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> Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further.

# Thryv CEO Joe Walsh: Creating a cohesive company culture
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/thryv-ceo-joe-walsh/
- Published: 2023-10-26T10:00:03.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-31T01:22:27.000Z
- Description: What a textbook publisher taught him about monthly recurring revenue, and why he is willing to spend years underwater to get it.
- Author: Clint Betts

## Joe Walsh has made this movie before

At Cambium Learning Group, Joe Walsh turned a textbook publisher into a subscription business by moving one of its units off perpetual licenses and onto monthly subscriptions. He was executive chairman. He says the stock was around 70 cents when he started. In October 2018, Veritas Capital [agreed to buy the company at $14.50 a share](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1466815/000119312518298772/d619120dex991.htm?ref=ceo.com). The [sale closed that December](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1466815/000146681518000068/ex991-pressrelease.htm?ref=ceo.com) and Cambium stopped trading.

He does not describe the middle of it as pleasant.

"It was a difficult couple year transition, our numbers looked terrible for that unit," Walsh said on the CEO.com Podcast. "When the bow of the boat finally swung around it was very powerful."

He is running the same play now, at roughly ten times the scale, on the Yellow Pages.

The setup is documented. Walsh co-founded IYP Publishing in 1982, sold it to DataNational in 1985, and joined Yellowbook in 1987, [per Dex Media's filings with the SEC](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1556739/000110465914076182/a14-23629%5F18ka.htm?ref=ceo.com). He ran Yellowbook as CEO from 1993 to 2011 and took revenue from $38 million to more than $2 billion, [the company said when it hired him](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1556739/000110465914071776/a14-22458%5F1ex99d1.htm?ref=ceo.com). Then Cambium. Then his old competitor walked in and asked him for a strategy.

The strategy was one idea. Enterprises were moving computing to the cloud, and small businesses would follow.

"There's a great opportunity, I thought, for the Yellow Pages business with 400,000 customers and a giant salesforce that had been in business for 100 years, to transition to that opportunity," he said.

The engagement is in the record. Dex Media [retained Walsh's firm as a consultant to its board](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1556739/000110465914076182/a14-23629%5F18ka.htm?ref=ceo.com) from March 7 to October 7, 2014, and paid him $490,000 for advice on the company's business and strategies. Seven days after that contract ended, the board named him CEO. By his account, the company was then taken private and restructured because it was badly indebted, rebuilt around software, and renamed. It [returned to the Nasdaq through a direct listing in October 2020](https://investor.thryv.com/news/news-details/2020/Thryv-Holdings-Inc.-Announces-First-Day-of-Trading-on-Nasdaq/default.aspx?ref=ceo.com).

What he sells now is deliberately unimpressive to anyone who works in enterprise software. His customers, he says, run from two to 50 employees. They cannot hire a systems integrator and will not sit through training.

"You'll never see somebody that says that they're Thryv certified; there's no certification," he said. "You can be onboard and learn Thryv in a few hours very easily."

They are also not startups. The base skews old and boring on purpose: the dentists, body shops, and HVAC crews the print business has billed for decades.

"I kiddingly call it all the nasty things in life, the things that happen and you have to solve," he said. "That's our core customer."

That customer is why the transition is survivable and why it takes so long. Print revenue is real money that leaves on a schedule, and software revenue arrives one subscription at a time.

The numbers show exactly that trade. In [the second quarter of 2026](https://investor.thryv.com/news/news-details/2026/Thryv-Reports-Second-Quarter-2026-Results-and-Launches-Thryv-Growth-Platform/default.aspx?ref=ceo.com), SaaS reached 76% of Thryv's revenue. Total revenue fell 28.4% to $150.7 million, and the company posted a $16.7 million net loss, down from $13.9 million in net income a year earlier. The mix is where he said it would be. The top line is the price of getting it there.

Walsh's conversation with CEO.com predates those results, and he was not asked to defend them. He did not need to be. He had already described what this quarter would feel like, using a different company, in the past tense.

The bow of the boat has not swung yet.

Every episode of the CEO.com Podcast ends on the idea that the chances one gives matter as much as the chances one takes. Walsh answered with a story about being 29, working as a key manager under a CEO the private equity owners had just fired. The founder of the business, then in his 60s, told the board to skip the search.

"He basically vouched for me and said, 'I know you guys think you have to conduct a search to find a CEO, you don't have to, we got the guy,'" Walsh said. "He's only 29 years old and we're going to give him the keys to a pretty big company but he can do it."

They built it, by his telling, into a $4 billion company with 16,500 employees and took it public in London.

"I'm a pretty simple guy," Walsh said. "My dad was the mailman, I never even graduated college. This guy gave me that opportunity and I made the most of it."

```chapters
00:00:00 Introducing Joe Walsh of Thryv
00:00:24 Thryv's Origin and Path to Going Public
00:04:12 Lessons From Building Software at Scale
00:06:01 Differentiating From Salesforce and HubSpot
00:08:19 Reading the Current State of the World
00:10:54 How AI Is Transforming Thryv's Business
00:12:55 The Power of the Monthly Recurring Revenue Model
00:14:30 Leadership Lessons From Public and Private Companies
00:15:46 Navigating Work From Home Since the Pandemic
00:19:00 Maintaining Culture in a Remote Company
00:22:04 The Mentor Who Gave Joe His First Chance
```

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About<00:03:41.124> 3<00:03:41.349> years<00:03:41.542> ago,<00:03:41.927> we<00:03:42.971> did<00:03:43.115> a<00:03:43.211> direct<00:03:43.532> listing<00:03:43.854> on<00:03:43.934> NASDAQ<00:03:44.656> and<00:03:44.801> have<00:03:44.961> relisted<00:03:45.379> the<00:03:45.459> company.

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So<00:03:46.824> that's<00:03:47.787> sort<00:03:48.012> of—<00:03:48.189> I've<00:03:48.429> been<00:03:48.654> here<00:03:49.650> for<00:03:49.890> 9<00:03:50.196> years<00:03:50.517> now.

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It's<00:03:51.384> been<00:03:51.480> a,<00:03:51.785> you<00:03:51.897> know,<00:03:51.962> 9-year<00:03:52.588> kind<00:03:54.033> of<00:03:54.370> turn<00:03:54.691> that<00:03:55.638> capital<00:03:56.072> structure<00:03:56.602> problem<00:03:57.019> around<00:03:57.982> and<00:03:58.063> created<00:03:58.544> a<00:03:58.705> dynamic,<00:03:59.347> fast-growing<00:03:59.941> new<00:04:00.070> business.

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And<00:04:01.178> our<00:04:01.612> SaaS<00:04:01.917> software<00:04:02.335> business<00:04:02.785> is<00:04:02.946> now,<00:04:03.829> you<00:04:03.910> know,<00:04:03.990> our<00:04:04.247> dominant<00:04:04.729> focus.

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It's<00:04:05.292> not<00:04:05.533> quite<00:04:05.838> yet<00:04:05.999> our<00:04:06.176> dominant<00:04:06.577> revenue,<00:04:06.979> but<00:04:07.365> it<00:04:07.461> will<00:04:07.622> cross<00:04:08.024> over<00:04:08.972> in<00:04:09.052> the<00:04:09.084> next<00:04:09.373> year<00:04:09.566> or<00:04:09.695> two<00:04:09.840> and<00:04:10.195> be<00:04:10.357> the<00:04:10.502> dominant<00:04:10.987> revenue<00:04:11.327> piece.

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And<00:04:12.701> what<00:04:12.782> have<00:04:12.928> you<00:04:13.025> learned<00:04:13.251> from<00:04:13.429> building<00:04:13.752> the<00:04:13.898> technology<00:04:14.884> and<00:04:14.965> the<00:04:15.062> software<00:04:16.501> behind<00:04:16.889> a<00:04:16.970> company<00:04:17.390> like<00:04:17.633> that,<00:04:18.506> like<00:04:18.700> a<00:04:18.829> legacy<00:04:19.233> company<00:04:19.476> like<00:04:19.657> this,<00:04:19.888> taking<00:04:20.234> it<00:04:20.316> all<00:04:20.645> into<00:04:20.876> the<00:04:20.975> cloud<00:04:21.386> and<00:04:21.469> all<00:04:21.551> of<00:04:21.699> that?

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What<00:04:22.045> was<00:04:22.210> that<00:04:22.374> process<00:04:22.934> like?

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It's<00:04:25.853> interesting,<00:04:26.196> you<00:04:26.278> know,<00:04:26.914> over<00:04:27.175> my<00:04:27.420> experience,<00:04:28.155> you<00:04:28.399> know,<00:04:29.138> building<00:04:29.497> software,<00:04:31.035> in<00:04:31.116> a<00:04:31.133> lot<00:04:31.345> of<00:04:31.378> ways<00:04:31.623> it's<00:04:31.770> getting<00:04:32.245> easier<00:04:32.604> and<00:04:32.915> easier.

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And<00:04:34.532> no,<00:04:34.597> I'm<00:04:34.775> not<00:04:35.017> referring<00:04:35.339> to<00:04:35.565> AI.

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It's<00:04:36.276> just<00:04:36.389> that<00:04:37.115> people<00:04:37.438> are<00:04:38.551> building<00:04:38.971> Legos,<00:04:39.520> they're<00:04:39.617> building<00:04:40.020> building<00:04:40.343> blocks,<00:04:40.811> they're<00:04:40.989> building<00:04:41.311> embedded<00:04:41.796> tools<00:04:43.151> that<00:04:43.248> they<00:04:43.393> want<00:04:43.555> to<00:04:43.620> sell.

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And<00:04:44.218> it's<00:04:44.622> one<00:04:44.864> thing<00:04:45.042> to<00:04:45.252> build<00:04:45.575> a<00:04:46.222> piece<00:04:46.480> of<00:04:46.545> software<00:04:46.981> that's<00:04:47.191> got<00:04:47.353> an<00:04:47.676> end,<00:04:47.935> either<00:04:48.177> consumer<00:04:48.905> or<00:04:49.066> an<00:04:49.293> end<00:04:49.470> business<00:04:49.955> market,<00:04:52.108> takes<00:04:52.417> a<00:04:52.499> lot<00:04:52.776> of<00:04:52.841> capital<00:04:53.248> to<00:04:53.411> reach<00:04:53.655> that<00:04:53.899> market<00:04:54.372> and<00:04:54.469> get<00:04:54.632> distribution.

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What<00:04:56.183> a<00:04:56.199> lot<00:04:56.423> of<00:04:56.503> smart<00:04:57.546> engineers<00:04:58.107> do<00:04:58.492> is<00:04:58.652> they<00:04:59.390> found<00:04:59.726> a<00:04:59.791> company<00:05:00.336> and<00:05:00.416> they<00:05:00.512> start<00:05:00.913> a<00:05:00.929> software<00:05:01.490> tool<00:05:02.260> that<00:05:02.420> helps<00:05:02.741> with<00:05:03.078> one<00:05:03.318> little<00:05:03.559> piece<00:05:04.906> within<00:05:05.162> the<00:05:05.306> chain,<00:05:06.605> which<00:05:06.782> is<00:05:06.990> much,<00:05:07.247> much<00:05:07.487> easier<00:05:07.663> to<00:05:07.792> market<00:05:08.209> to<00:05:08.449> because<00:05:08.754> you're<00:05:08.850> basically<00:05:09.251> selling<00:05:10.213> within<00:05:10.518> the<00:05:10.678> industry<00:05:11.335> to<00:05:11.800> your<00:05:11.961> community.

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And<00:05:12.458> as<00:05:12.602> a<00:05:12.634> software<00:05:13.821> developer,<00:05:14.446> you<00:05:14.542> can<00:05:14.783> grab<00:05:15.264> these<00:05:16.306> Lego<00:05:17.348> blocks<00:05:17.829> and<00:05:18.054> plug<00:05:18.391> in<00:05:18.471> these<00:05:18.695> embedded<00:05:19.176> tools,<00:05:20.154> and<00:05:20.235> it<00:05:20.379> dramatically<00:05:21.100> improves<00:05:21.581> the<00:05:21.678> quality<00:05:22.223> of<00:05:22.479> and<00:05:22.576> speeds<00:05:23.105> up<00:05:23.842> the<00:05:23.922> development<00:05:24.403> time<00:05:25.349> of<00:05:25.701> software<00:05:26.166> development<00:05:26.647> that<00:05:26.807> you're<00:05:27.192> creating.

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So<00:05:27.593> you're<00:05:27.689> not<00:05:27.929> sitting<00:05:28.250> there<00:05:29.051> inventing<00:05:29.612> a<00:05:29.757> wheel<00:05:30.077> from<00:05:30.254> scratch.

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You're<00:05:31.456> grabbing<00:05:31.856> a<00:05:32.017> bunch<00:05:32.257> of<00:05:32.321> different<00:05:32.578> wheels<00:05:32.914> and<00:05:33.075> plugging<00:05:33.459> them<00:05:33.684> into<00:05:34.886> your<00:05:35.783> graphical<00:05:36.248> user<00:05:36.505> interface,<00:05:37.050> to<00:05:37.130> your<00:05:37.226> strategy,<00:05:38.653> and<00:05:38.749> then<00:05:38.909> you're<00:05:39.149> writing<00:05:39.534> the<00:05:39.566> stuff<00:05:40.015> that<00:05:40.191> is<00:05:40.352> missing.

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And<00:05:41.698> it's<00:05:42.195> a<00:05:42.291> much<00:05:42.596> easier<00:05:42.980> process<00:05:43.397> than<00:05:43.493> it<00:05:43.557> would<00:05:43.702> have<00:05:43.798> been,<00:05:44.118> you<00:05:44.856> know,<00:05:45.401> 10<00:05:45.577> years<00:05:45.817> ago.

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That's,<00:05:48.206> yeah,<00:05:48.286> I<00:05:48.446> never<00:05:48.751> really<00:05:48.991> thought<00:05:49.103> about<00:05:49.632> it<00:05:49.969> that<00:05:50.065> way,<00:05:50.129> but<00:05:50.289> that<00:05:50.514> is<00:05:50.610> super<00:05:50.930> interesting.

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And<00:05:51.879> you're<00:05:52.121> in<00:05:52.218> a<00:05:52.234> space<00:05:52.766> where<00:05:53.009> like<00:05:53.283> you're<00:05:53.428> competing<00:05:53.832> with<00:05:53.993> like<00:05:54.171> the<00:05:54.252> Salesforces<00:05:55.124> and<00:05:55.269> HubSpots<00:05:55.931> of<00:05:56.011> the<00:05:56.157> world.

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How<00:05:57.545> are<00:05:57.707> you<00:05:58.013> like<00:05:58.756> differentiating<00:05:59.482> from<00:05:59.708> them?

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Well,<00:06:01.953> I<00:06:02.033> mean,<00:06:02.676> mostly<00:06:03.158> by<00:06:03.399> who<00:06:03.704> we<00:06:04.202> deliver<00:06:04.604> to<00:06:04.990> and<00:06:05.086> by<00:06:05.166> the<00:06:05.311> complexity<00:06:05.873> of<00:06:05.905> our<00:06:06.050> solutions.

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So<00:06:07.801> we<00:06:07.962> use<00:06:08.155> Salesforce.

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We're<00:06:08.878> a<00:06:08.942> Salesforce<00:06:09.504> customer.

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You<00:06:10.934> know,<00:06:11.095> we're<00:06:11.354> over<00:06:11.516> $1<00:06:11.663> billion<00:06:11.989> in<00:06:12.070> revenue.

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We're<00:06:13.373> also<00:06:13.797> a<00:06:13.944> HubSpot<00:06:14.449> customer.

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We<00:06:15.084> know<00:06:15.116> we<00:06:15.198> have<00:06:15.410> about<00:06:15.817> 3,000<00:06:16.420> employees.

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We<00:06:18.628> have<00:06:18.949> people<00:06:19.269> who've<00:06:19.686> gone<00:06:19.911> to<00:06:19.943> school<00:06:20.392> and<00:06:20.472> are<00:06:20.584> Salesforce<00:06:21.289> and<00:06:21.369> HubSpot<00:06:21.786> certified.

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We<00:06:23.197> also<00:06:23.293> have<00:06:23.470> some<00:06:23.694> systems<00:06:24.159> integrators<00:06:24.800> that<00:06:24.960> work<00:06:25.137> with<00:06:25.297> us<00:06:25.457> to<00:06:25.618> put<00:06:25.762> it<00:06:25.858> in.

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What's<00:06:27.060> different<00:06:27.301> about<00:06:27.606> Thrive<00:06:28.022> is<00:06:28.167> our<00:06:28.327> target<00:06:28.760> market<00:06:29.209> are<00:06:29.369> true<00:06:29.641> small<00:06:30.090> businesses.

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These<00:06:31.164> sometimes<00:06:31.854> are,<00:06:32.431> you<00:06:32.511> know,<00:06:32.767> 2<00:06:33.072> to<00:06:33.152> maybe<00:06:33.473> 50<00:06:33.874> employee,<00:06:34.419> very<00:06:34.691> small<00:06:35.076> businesses<00:06:36.358> that<00:06:36.503> don't<00:06:36.743> have<00:06:37.224> time<00:06:37.657> to<00:06:37.881> have,<00:06:39.468> or<00:06:39.565> money<00:06:39.965> to<00:06:40.110> have<00:06:40.286> a<00:06:40.302> systems<00:06:40.847> integrator<00:06:41.793> put<00:06:41.905> a<00:06:41.969> piece<00:06:42.210> of<00:06:42.242> software<00:06:42.755> in.

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This<00:06:43.332> is<00:06:43.396> the<00:06:43.557> actual<00:06:43.894> business<00:06:44.280> owner<00:06:44.537> and<00:06:44.617> his<00:06:44.778> partners<00:06:45.356> or<00:06:45.484> his<00:06:46.865> husband<00:06:47.251> or<00:06:47.347> wife<00:06:47.813> or,<00:06:48.792> you<00:06:49.017> know,<00:06:49.499> office<00:06:49.756> manager<00:06:50.639> learning<00:06:50.944> how<00:06:51.121> to<00:06:51.281> use<00:06:51.603> these<00:06:51.843> consumer-grade<00:06:52.743> tools<00:06:53.128> that<00:06:53.289> are<00:06:53.353> fairly<00:06:53.626> simple.

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So<00:06:54.878> you'll<00:06:54.991> never<00:06:55.296> see<00:06:55.537> somebody<00:06:55.858> that<00:06:56.019> says<00:06:56.324> that<00:06:56.484> they're<00:06:57.287> Thrive<00:06:57.721> certified.

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There's<00:06:58.652> no<00:06:58.765> certification.

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You<00:07:00.435> can<00:07:00.692> be<00:07:00.820> onboard<00:07:01.206> and<00:07:01.479> learn<00:07:01.800> Thrive<00:07:02.506> in<00:07:03.020> a<00:07:03.085> few<00:07:03.390> hours<00:07:03.807> very<00:07:04.064> easily.

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So<00:07:04.835> it's<00:07:04.996> the<00:07:05.076> simplicity<00:07:05.815> and<00:07:05.975> focusing<00:07:06.457> on<00:07:06.617> like<00:07:06.778> the<00:07:06.874> small<00:07:07.324> business<00:07:08.207> entrepreneurial,<00:07:08.882> like<00:07:09.107> medium-sized<00:07:09.749> businesses.

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That<00:07:11.360> makes<00:07:11.660> a<00:07:11.740> lot<00:07:11.741> of<00:07:12.060> sense.

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No,<00:07:12.101> it's<00:07:12.102> small<00:07:12.280> businesses.

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Let's<00:07:13.000> be<00:07:13.380> clear.

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Oh,<00:07:14.280> really?

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These<00:07:15.960> are<00:07:16.120> small<00:07:16.500> businesses.

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These<00:07:17.181> are,<00:07:17.520> you<00:07:17.521> know,<00:07:18.280> I<00:07:18.540> don't,<00:07:19.120> there's<00:07:19.260> different<00:07:19.540> definitions<00:07:20.080> of<00:07:20.260> medium,<00:07:20.640> but<00:07:20.740> I<00:07:20.980> would<00:07:21.120> say<00:07:21.960> HubSpot<00:07:22.700> is<00:07:23.000> medium<00:07:23.400> where<00:07:24.020> they're<00:07:24.200> going<00:07:24.400> after,<00:07:25.000> you<00:07:25.001> know,<00:07:25.120> I<00:07:25.121> think<00:07:25.300> their<00:07:25.780> target<00:07:26.240> ideal<00:07:26.620> client<00:07:26.980> is<00:07:27.180> 2,000<00:07:27.740> employees.

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I<00:07:28.740> think<00:07:28.840> they<00:07:29.080> would<00:07:29.240> consider<00:07:29.620> that<00:07:29.860> a<00:07:30.560> medium-sized<00:07:31.100> business.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That<00:07:33.100> seems<00:07:33.500> like<00:07:33.660> a<00:07:33.880> large<00:07:34.120> business<00:07:34.500> to<00:07:34.740> me,<00:07:35.580> but<00:07:37.120> who<00:07:37.240> knows?

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But<00:07:38.800> yeah,<00:07:39.060> that<00:07:39.220> makes<00:07:39.460> sense.

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I<00:07:40.756> don't<00:07:40.950> know<00:07:41.063> if<00:07:41.160> you<00:07:41.241> realize<00:07:41.709> this,<00:07:41.887> but<00:07:42.129> there's<00:07:42.614> only<00:07:42.921> 500<00:07:44.068> companies<00:07:44.552> in<00:07:44.633> the<00:07:44.714> Fortune<00:07:45.118> 500.

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Yeah.

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As<00:07:52.574> a<00:07:52.639> public<00:07:53.287> company<00:07:53.611> CEO,<00:07:54.097> I<00:07:54.243> always<00:07:54.567> wonder<00:07:54.972> because<00:07:55.458> you<00:07:55.555> have<00:07:55.798> to<00:07:56.349> track<00:07:56.948> macroeconomics<00:07:58.196> as<00:07:58.357> well<00:07:58.534> as<00:07:58.694> like<00:07:59.579> internally<00:08:00.625> and<00:08:00.786> what's<00:08:01.012> happening<00:08:01.349> with<00:08:01.510> your<00:08:01.752> company<00:08:02.315> and<00:08:02.395> your<00:08:02.701> numbers<00:08:03.216> and<00:08:03.345> report<00:08:03.683> those<00:08:03.924> every<00:08:04.165> 3<00:08:04.326> months,<00:08:04.648> of<00:08:04.793> course.

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But<00:08:06.388> then<00:08:06.614> you<00:08:06.775> also<00:08:07.098> have<00:08:07.356> to<00:08:07.501> think<00:08:07.759> about<00:08:08.066> like<00:08:08.243> what's<00:08:08.550> going<00:08:08.873> on<00:08:09.147> in<00:08:09.276> the<00:08:09.373> world<00:08:10.163> and<00:08:10.260> how<00:08:11.148> what's<00:08:11.390> going<00:08:11.696> on<00:08:11.809> in<00:08:11.874> the<00:08:11.954> world<00:08:12.277> might<00:08:12.616> impact<00:08:13.326> your<00:08:13.568> company<00:08:14.601> and<00:08:14.940> future<00:08:15.894> of<00:08:16.071> the<00:08:16.152> company<00:08:16.782> and<00:08:16.944> revenue<00:08:17.525> and<00:08:18.155> all<00:08:18.252> the<00:08:18.333> various<00:08:18.640> things.

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So,<00:08:21.079> what<00:08:21.241> is<00:08:21.386> your<00:08:21.645> take<00:08:22.032> on<00:08:22.129> the<00:08:22.210> current<00:08:22.469> state<00:08:22.759> of<00:08:22.792> the<00:08:22.921> world?

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Well,<00:08:26.202> look,<00:08:26.835> I<00:08:26.998> tend<00:08:27.241> to<00:08:27.322> be<00:08:28.053> a<00:08:28.475> pretty<00:08:28.962> glass<00:08:30.098> half<00:08:30.325> full<00:08:30.731> kind<00:08:30.893> of<00:08:30.974> guy.

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I<00:08:31.315> mean,<00:08:31.494> there's<00:08:31.867> always<00:08:32.078> stuff<00:08:32.370> you<00:08:32.451> can<00:08:32.678> point<00:08:32.922> to<00:08:33.035> in<00:08:33.100> the<00:08:33.182> news<00:08:33.441> and<00:08:33.571> obviously,<00:08:34.425> things<00:08:34.601> that<00:08:34.681> are<00:08:34.762> going<00:08:35.066> on<00:08:35.226> right<00:08:35.403> now<00:08:35.579> in<00:08:35.723> Israel<00:08:36.268> is<00:08:36.605> scary.

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Ukraine,<00:08:37.551> that's<00:08:38.272> awful,<00:08:38.673> awful.

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And<00:08:39.073> I<00:08:39.169> feel<00:08:39.410> terrible<00:08:39.714> for<00:08:39.811> the<00:08:39.891> people<00:08:40.131> involved.

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But<00:08:41.798> there's<00:08:42.039> almost<00:08:42.359> always<00:08:42.552> some<00:08:42.840> kind<00:08:42.952> of<00:08:43.016> conflict<00:08:43.481> going<00:08:43.738> on<00:08:43.802> in<00:08:43.898> the<00:08:43.978> world.

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And,<00:08:46.142> you<00:08:46.222> know,<00:08:46.447> you<00:08:46.767> can,<00:08:46.927> you<00:08:47.745> can<00:08:47.905> fixate<00:08:48.771> on<00:08:48.931> the<00:08:49.011> things<00:08:49.268> that<00:08:49.332> you<00:08:49.492> can't<00:08:49.668> control,<00:08:50.229> or<00:08:50.293> you<00:08:50.390> can<00:08:51.047> spend<00:08:51.351> time<00:08:51.752> on<00:08:51.896> the<00:08:51.977> things<00:08:52.217> that<00:08:52.297> you<00:08:52.393> can.

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And<00:08:53.996> so<00:08:54.862> I<00:08:54.958> tend<00:08:55.198> to<00:08:55.262> be<00:08:55.359> very<00:08:55.599> optimistic<00:08:56.160> about<00:08:57.282> the<00:08:57.426> opportunity<00:08:57.843> that<00:08:58.019> we<00:08:58.164> have<00:08:58.340> in<00:08:58.500> front<00:08:58.709> of<00:08:58.805> us.

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I<00:08:59.045> think<00:08:59.270> the<00:08:59.430> opportunity<00:08:59.799> to<00:08:59.991> build<00:09:00.247> a<00:09:00.328> successful<00:09:01.049> business<00:09:01.353> today<00:09:02.589> is<00:09:03.134> good<00:09:03.310> or<00:09:03.374> better<00:09:03.487> than<00:09:03.679> it's<00:09:03.855> ever<00:09:04.096> been.

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And<00:09:06.597> so<00:09:06.901> I'm<00:09:07.446> pretty<00:09:07.687> optimistic.

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You're<00:09:09.146> in<00:09:09.226> a<00:09:09.290> segment<00:09:09.931> of<00:09:10.268> the<00:09:10.428> economy<00:09:10.973> too<00:09:11.214> that<00:09:11.631> I'm<00:09:11.775> sure<00:09:13.298> a<00:09:13.458> lot<00:09:13.651> of<00:09:13.715> people<00:09:13.971> are<00:09:14.116> paying<00:09:14.244> attention<00:09:14.613> right<00:09:14.757> now<00:09:15.078> with<00:09:15.254> inflation<00:09:16.136> and<00:09:16.697> so<00:09:16.809> many<00:09:17.082> big<00:09:17.242> companies<00:09:17.723> cutting<00:09:17.963> jobs<00:09:18.364> and<00:09:18.444> things<00:09:18.605> like<00:09:18.765> that.

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I<00:09:19.150> wonder,<00:09:20.048> are<00:09:20.112> you<00:09:20.224> seeing<00:09:20.609> an<00:09:20.769> uptick<00:09:21.410> in<00:09:21.571> people<00:09:21.875> starting<00:09:22.292> their<00:09:22.372> own<00:09:22.533> businesses<00:09:22.933> and<00:09:23.094> needing<00:09:23.334> to<00:09:23.494> use<00:09:23.735> Thrive?

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Are<00:09:24.280> you<00:09:24.376> seeing<00:09:24.777> like,<00:09:25.322> what<00:09:25.482> is<00:09:25.579> like<00:09:25.803> this<00:09:25.979> kind<00:09:26.204> of<00:09:26.236> like<00:09:26.460> pseudo<00:09:27.342> recession?

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I<00:09:28.240> know<00:09:28.384> we're<00:09:28.496> not<00:09:28.865> technically<00:09:29.346> in<00:09:29.426> a<00:09:29.490> recession,<00:09:30.068> but<00:09:30.148> obviously<00:09:30.468> interest<00:09:30.773> rates<00:09:30.965> are<00:09:31.029> super<00:09:31.334> high.

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And<00:09:32.557> everything<00:09:32.961> that's<00:09:33.123> going<00:09:33.430> on<00:09:34.012> with<00:09:34.174> the<00:09:34.319> economy,<00:09:34.885> that's<00:09:35.370> kind<00:09:35.484> of<00:09:35.548> confusing.

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Like,<00:09:37.650> what<00:09:37.796> has<00:09:37.893> that<00:09:38.119> done<00:09:38.362> to<00:09:38.540> your<00:09:38.782> segment<00:09:39.510> and<00:09:39.591> your<00:09:39.898> customers?

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You<00:09:42.632> know,<00:09:42.937> our—<00:09:43.194> because<00:09:43.612> if<00:09:43.740> you<00:09:43.837> think<00:09:44.014> about<00:09:44.544> the<00:09:44.704> legacy<00:09:45.186> of<00:09:45.218> our<00:09:45.427> company,<00:09:46.407> we<00:09:46.632> were<00:09:47.773> the<00:09:47.917> Yellow<00:09:48.239> Pages<00:09:48.801> and<00:09:48.962> marketing<00:09:49.395> services<00:09:50.022> for<00:09:50.134> the<00:09:50.247> last<00:09:50.424> 100<00:09:50.905> years.

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So<00:09:52.030> we<00:09:52.175> have<00:09:52.271> a<00:09:52.400> lot<00:09:52.594> of<00:09:52.740> old-line<00:09:53.470> established<00:09:54.378> businesses<00:09:55.026> in<00:09:55.172> our<00:09:55.351> customer<00:09:55.740> base.

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We<00:09:56.129> have<00:09:56.178> about<00:09:56.405> 400,000<00:09:57.297> customers.

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And<00:09:58.723> the<00:09:59.028> average<00:10:00.166> across<00:10:00.551> our<00:10:00.647> customer<00:10:00.968> base<00:10:01.209> has<00:10:01.369> been<00:10:01.529> with<00:10:01.674> us<00:10:01.834> for<00:10:01.930> 15<00:10:02.556> years.

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So<00:10:03.694> these<00:10:03.935> are<00:10:04.015> very<00:10:04.961> old-line<00:10:05.522> established<00:10:06.100> businesses<00:10:06.565> and<00:10:06.645> they<00:10:06.837> tend<00:10:07.158> to<00:10:07.527> do<00:10:07.783> the<00:10:07.880> nasty<00:10:08.425> things<00:10:08.665> in<00:10:08.746> life.

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You<00:10:09.692> got<00:10:09.788> a<00:10:09.868> dent<00:10:10.125> in<00:10:10.189> your<00:10:10.349> car,<00:10:10.670> you<00:10:10.750> gotta<00:10:10.991> get<00:10:11.151> it<00:10:11.247> fixed.

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Your<00:10:11.776> tooth<00:10:12.033> hurts,<00:10:12.819> you<00:10:12.851> gotta<00:10:13.075> go<00:10:13.236> to<00:10:13.316> the<00:10:13.460> dentist.

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You<00:10:15.144> know,<00:10:16.106> your<00:10:16.266> air<00:10:16.363> conditioning<00:10:16.748> doesn't<00:10:17.068> work.

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So<00:10:17.646> you<00:10:17.726> call<00:10:17.966> the,<00:10:18.207> the<00:10:18.287> guy<00:10:18.447> to<00:10:18.528> come<00:10:18.688> repair<00:10:19.089> that.

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I<00:10:20.372> kiddingly<00:10:20.757> call<00:10:20.949> it<00:10:21.077> all<00:10:21.157> the<00:10:21.238> nasty<00:10:21.655> things<00:10:21.895> in<00:10:21.975> life,<00:10:22.216> the<00:10:22.376> things<00:10:22.681> that<00:10:23.178> happen<00:10:23.659> and<00:10:23.739> you<00:10:23.819> have<00:10:24.044> to<00:10:24.124> solve.

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That's<00:10:25.753> kind<00:10:25.979> of<00:10:26.075> our,<00:10:27.121> you<00:10:27.153> know,<00:10:27.346> our<00:10:27.507> core<00:10:27.845> customer.

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And<00:10:28.634> so<00:10:28.891> their<00:10:29.277> business<00:10:29.615> is<00:10:29.776> very<00:10:30.098> resilient.

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And<00:10:31.063> with<00:10:31.305> that,<00:10:31.691> ours<00:10:31.948> has<00:10:32.109> been<00:10:32.994> pretty<00:10:33.235> steady<00:10:33.782> eddy.

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We<00:10:34.104> don't<00:10:34.362> tend<00:10:34.831> to,<00:10:36.140> you<00:10:36.205> know,<00:10:36.318> serve<00:10:36.803> the<00:10:37.029> brand<00:10:37.369> new<00:10:37.531> startup<00:10:38.096> as<00:10:38.242> much.

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I'm<00:10:38.921> not<00:10:39.131> saying<00:10:39.293> we<00:10:39.357> have<00:10:39.535> none,<00:10:39.859> but<00:10:40.020> that's<00:10:40.214> not<00:10:40.441> really<00:10:40.667> the<00:10:40.829> target<00:10:41.314> for<00:10:41.459> us.

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So<00:10:43.402> that's<00:10:44.288> given<00:10:44.594> us<00:10:44.771> a<00:10:44.852> fairly<00:10:45.270> steady<00:10:45.898> business<00:10:46.365> with<00:10:46.607> low<00:10:46.784> churn<00:10:47.895> and<00:10:49.022> a<00:10:49.103> predictable<00:10:49.747> build.

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But,<00:10:50.327> you<00:10:50.472> know,<00:10:50.633> we're<00:10:50.971> growing<00:10:51.277> our<00:10:51.373> software<00:10:51.760> business<00:10:52.082> pretty<00:10:52.259> fast.

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How<00:10:54.260> is<00:10:54.729> artificial<00:10:55.619> intelligence<00:10:56.428> changing<00:10:56.848> your<00:10:57.398> life<00:10:58.466> and<00:10:58.611> the<00:10:58.692> company's<00:10:59.113> life?

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You<00:11:00.747> know,<00:11:01.038> I<00:11:01.135> think<00:11:01.701> it's<00:11:02.672> beginning<00:11:03.154> to<00:11:03.234> change<00:11:03.861> every<00:11:04.118> business.

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You<00:11:05.420> know,<00:11:05.629> in<00:11:05.870> our<00:11:06.111> business,<00:11:06.529> there's<00:11:06.754> a<00:11:06.850> lot<00:11:07.075> like<00:11:08.859> there's<00:11:09.100> a<00:11:09.116> lot<00:11:09.245> of<00:11:09.341> copywriting<00:11:10.225> and<00:11:10.370> so<00:11:10.450> on<00:11:10.643> that<00:11:10.787> we<00:11:10.948> do<00:11:11.334> for<00:11:11.527> our<00:11:11.720> 400,000<00:11:12.480> customers<00:11:13.434> and<00:11:13.515> we<00:11:13.612> have<00:11:13.773> human<00:11:14.016> beings<00:11:14.420> that<00:11:14.582> do<00:11:14.808> that,<00:11:15.067> but<00:11:15.294> they're<00:11:15.471> now<00:11:15.860> aided<00:11:16.118> by<00:11:16.506> AI,<00:11:17.331> which<00:11:17.509> is<00:11:17.638> making<00:11:17.962> them<00:11:18.204> vastly<00:11:18.625> more<00:11:18.868> productive.

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We<00:11:19.976> write<00:11:20.217> a<00:11:20.233> lot<00:11:20.409> of<00:11:20.473> software<00:11:21.274> and<00:11:21.354> we<00:11:21.579> check<00:11:22.139> and<00:11:22.316> do<00:11:22.540> QA<00:11:23.261> on<00:11:23.357> a<00:11:23.373> lot<00:11:23.582> of<00:11:23.662> software.

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AI<00:11:25.216> is<00:11:25.360> helping<00:11:25.761> us<00:11:26.242> speed<00:11:26.642> up<00:11:26.787> the<00:11:26.883> writing<00:11:27.508> and<00:11:27.828> really<00:11:28.245> do<00:11:28.405> a<00:11:28.485> better<00:11:28.725> job<00:11:28.982> and<00:11:29.062> a<00:11:29.126> faster<00:11:29.591> job<00:11:30.712> on<00:11:31.273> QA.

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So<00:11:33.148> it's<00:11:33.308> sort<00:11:33.469> of<00:11:33.677> all<00:11:34.014> throughout<00:11:34.414> the<00:11:34.494> business<00:11:34.895> and<00:11:35.039> even<00:11:35.295> our<00:11:35.536> tools<00:11:35.936> themselves<00:11:36.642> are<00:11:36.882> all-in-one<00:11:37.795> software<00:11:38.244> platform<00:11:38.741> called<00:11:38.981> Thrive<00:11:40.503> is<00:11:40.600> a<00:11:40.728> tool<00:11:40.904> that<00:11:41.064> you<00:11:41.160> could<00:11:41.369> run<00:11:41.545> your<00:11:41.705> small<00:11:42.010> business<00:11:42.330> on.

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You<00:11:43.003> simply,<00:11:43.548> you<00:11:43.628> know,<00:11:43.708> get<00:11:43.869> your<00:11:44.013> phone<00:11:44.253> out,<00:11:44.830> you<00:11:44.974> click<00:11:45.295> on<00:11:45.936> the<00:11:46.176> app<00:11:46.577> on<00:11:46.673> the<00:11:46.753> phone,<00:11:47.073> it<00:11:47.233> opens<00:11:47.618> up<00:11:47.714> your<00:11:47.794> schedule<00:11:48.259> for<00:11:48.419> the<00:11:48.515> day.

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You<00:11:49.781> click<00:11:50.102> on<00:11:50.198> the<00:11:50.278> client<00:11:50.678> card<00:11:50.999> for<00:11:51.143> 10<00:11:51.335> o'clock<00:11:51.736> and<00:11:51.864> it<00:11:51.944> shows<00:11:52.345> you,<00:11:53.082> you<00:11:53.162> know,<00:11:53.306> who<00:11:53.418> your<00:11:53.563> 10<00:11:53.739> o'clock<00:11:54.043> appointment<00:11:54.508> is,<00:11:54.764> which<00:11:55.005> one<00:11:55.165> of<00:11:55.309> your<00:11:56.591> agents<00:11:57.248> is<00:11:57.392> handling<00:11:57.809> it<00:11:57.889> at<00:11:58.049> 10,<00:11:58.834> how<00:11:59.010> they<00:11:59.171> paid<00:11:59.475> last<00:11:59.715> time,<00:11:59.972> what<00:12:00.132> complaint<00:12:00.693> they<00:12:01.414> mentioned<00:12:01.814> when<00:12:01.975> they<00:12:02.119> called<00:12:02.455> in<00:12:02.535> to<00:12:02.632> make<00:12:02.856> the<00:12:02.936> appointment.

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So<00:12:04.394> when<00:12:04.506> you<00:12:04.602> think<00:12:04.859> about<00:12:05.580> that<00:12:05.820> sort<00:12:06.125> of<00:12:06.205> interaction,<00:12:07.823> there's<00:12:08.127> a<00:12:08.143> lot<00:12:08.448> of<00:12:08.608> AI<00:12:09.105> in<00:12:09.265> there<00:12:09.489> where<00:12:10.947> it's<00:12:11.204> simple<00:12:11.652> as<00:12:11.829> customers<00:12:12.373> learning<00:12:12.614> how<00:12:12.790> to<00:12:12.854> use<00:12:13.111> the<00:12:13.255> tool,<00:12:14.152> when<00:12:14.296> they,<00:12:14.553> they<00:12:14.697> click<00:12:15.017> on<00:12:15.178> help<00:12:15.370> center<00:12:15.738> articles,<00:12:16.299> you<00:12:16.331> know,<00:12:16.540> AI<00:12:16.876> is<00:12:17.020> helping<00:12:17.421> with,<00:12:17.757> with<00:12:17.918> that<00:12:18.158> process.

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When<00:12:20.562> they<00:12:21.747> want<00:12:21.891> to<00:12:21.924> set<00:12:22.308> up<00:12:22.484> a<00:12:23.045> marketing<00:12:23.430> campaign,<00:12:23.766> we<00:12:23.862> have<00:12:24.007> a<00:12:24.071> tool<00:12:24.247> called<00:12:24.551> Marketing<00:12:24.904> Center<00:12:25.769> that<00:12:25.913> helps<00:12:26.170> them<00:12:26.346> set<00:12:26.651> up<00:12:27.372> marketing<00:12:27.772> campaigns<00:12:28.333> for<00:12:28.509> their<00:12:28.798> business,<00:12:30.000> helps<00:12:30.576> them<00:12:30.817> build<00:12:31.041> websites,<00:12:31.602> helps<00:12:31.922> them<00:12:32.018> build<00:12:32.259> landing<00:12:32.643> pages.

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AI<00:12:33.925> will<00:12:34.102> write<00:12:34.342> all<00:12:34.502> this<00:12:34.646> stuff<00:12:34.823> for<00:12:35.047> you<00:12:35.143> now.

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If<00:12:36.729> you<00:12:36.858> don't<00:12:36.986> know<00:12:37.050> what<00:12:37.210> to<00:12:37.242> say,<00:12:37.611> you<00:12:37.707> can<00:12:37.851> say,<00:12:38.332> give<00:12:38.460> me<00:12:38.572> a<00:12:38.604> suggestion.

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It'll<00:12:39.405> just<00:12:39.630> write<00:12:39.870> the<00:12:39.934> whole<00:12:40.094> thing<00:12:40.351> for<00:12:40.495> you.

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Then<00:12:41.220> you<00:12:41.301> can<00:12:41.463> just<00:12:41.786> edit<00:12:41.964> what<00:12:42.110> it<00:12:42.271> writes<00:12:43.080> and<00:12:43.161> it's,<00:12:43.484> it's<00:12:43.727> really<00:12:44.067> good.

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It's<00:12:44.633> surprising<00:12:45.102> how<00:12:45.280> good<00:12:45.441> it<00:12:45.587> is.

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So<00:12:46.654> it's<00:12:46.897> really<00:12:48.531> sped<00:12:48.919> up<00:12:49.097> and<00:12:49.178> enabled<00:12:49.663> a<00:12:49.728> lot<00:12:49.954> of<00:12:50.035> the<00:12:50.100> services<00:12:50.606> that,<00:12:50.933> that<00:12:51.031> we<00:12:51.260> provide,<00:12:51.750> made<00:12:51.913> them<00:12:52.093> better,<00:12:52.354> made<00:12:52.583> them<00:12:52.681> faster,<00:12:53.155> made<00:12:53.319> them<00:12:53.466> cheaper.

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You<00:12:55.520> mentioned<00:12:55.795> earlier,<00:12:56.247> like<00:12:56.813> you<00:12:56.910> saw<00:12:57.088> the<00:12:57.233> value<00:12:57.864> of<00:12:58.348> the<00:12:58.591> MRR<00:12:59.157> model,<00:12:59.496> the<00:12:59.577> monthly<00:12:59.965> recurring<00:13:00.531> revenue<00:13:00.854> model,<00:13:01.500> and<00:13:01.662> generally<00:13:02.228> the<00:13:02.988> subscription<00:13:03.699> model.

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What<00:13:04.669> advice<00:13:04.992> do<00:13:05.057> you<00:13:05.221> have<00:13:05.482> for<00:13:05.628> entrepreneurs<00:13:06.362> who<00:13:06.477> are<00:13:06.705> pivoting<00:13:07.113> to<00:13:07.211> that<00:13:07.749> or<00:13:08.026> trying<00:13:08.255> to<00:13:08.336> figure<00:13:08.646> out<00:13:08.744> what<00:13:08.907> their<00:13:09.136> revenue<00:13:09.478> model<00:13:09.804> should<00:13:09.967> be?

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Given<00:13:11.417> your<00:13:11.658> experience<00:13:12.219> there?

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Well,<00:13:14.062> I<00:13:14.094> mean,<00:13:14.302> I<00:13:14.398> think<00:13:14.639> the<00:13:14.735> monthly<00:13:15.103> recurring<00:13:15.584> revenue<00:13:15.857> model,<00:13:16.658> if<00:13:16.786> you<00:13:16.947> can<00:13:17.123> get<00:13:18.004> to<00:13:18.245> high<00:13:18.565> engagement<00:13:19.206> where<00:13:19.351> they're<00:13:19.511> actually<00:13:19.847> engaged<00:13:20.328> with<00:13:20.505> and<00:13:20.649> using<00:13:20.969> your<00:13:21.130> product<00:13:22.652> and<00:13:22.796> you<00:13:22.877> can<00:13:23.293> prove<00:13:23.694> value<00:13:24.255> and<00:13:24.399> have<00:13:24.720> low<00:13:24.896> churn,<00:13:25.794> it's<00:13:25.938> an<00:13:26.018> incredible<00:13:26.579> model<00:13:26.964> because<00:13:27.941> you<00:13:28.021> basically<00:13:28.582> begin<00:13:28.983> every<00:13:29.223> month<00:13:29.608> with<00:13:29.768> the<00:13:29.864> revenue<00:13:30.169> you<00:13:30.265> had<00:13:30.489> last<00:13:30.826> month,<00:13:31.066> less<00:13:31.371> a<00:13:31.467> very<00:13:31.788> tiny<00:13:32.269> amount<00:13:32.509> of<00:13:32.589> churn,<00:13:33.615> and<00:13:33.695> then<00:13:33.807> it<00:13:33.951> builds.

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And<00:13:35.330> so<00:13:35.618> you're<00:13:35.698> not<00:13:35.875> starting<00:13:36.355> January<00:13:36.820> 1st<00:13:37.157> of<00:13:37.189> the<00:13:37.317> year<00:13:37.477> at<00:13:37.574> zero,<00:13:38.199> figuring<00:13:38.439> out<00:13:38.583> how<00:13:38.615> much<00:13:38.904> you<00:13:38.984> can<00:13:39.144> go<00:13:39.256> sell.

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You're<00:13:40.202> sort<00:13:40.363> of<00:13:40.427> starting<00:13:40.845> with<00:13:40.989> where<00:13:41.086> you<00:13:41.230> left<00:13:41.551> off<00:13:41.728> last<00:13:42.065> year,<00:13:42.771> less<00:13:43.076> a<00:13:43.173> very<00:13:43.510> tiny<00:13:44.521> calculable<00:13:45.260> churn<00:13:45.501> number,<00:13:46.368> and<00:13:46.448> then<00:13:46.609> you're<00:13:46.769> building<00:13:47.042> from<00:13:47.331> there.

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So<00:13:47.829> that,<00:13:48.070> that<00:13:48.311> part<00:13:48.567> of<00:13:48.696> it,<00:13:49.194> the<00:13:49.258> economics<00:13:49.772> of<00:13:49.820> the<00:13:49.916> model<00:13:50.237> are<00:13:50.382> very,<00:13:50.639> very<00:13:50.944> powerful.

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The<00:13:52.148> predictability<00:13:52.790> of<00:13:52.822> the<00:13:52.902> model<00:13:53.143> is<00:13:53.352> very<00:13:53.593> powerful.

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There,<00:13:54.251> there's,<00:13:55.279> I,<00:13:55.519> you<00:13:55.616> know,<00:13:56.017> within<00:13:56.322> Cambium,<00:13:56.820> when<00:13:56.964> I<00:13:57.045> was<00:13:57.141> in<00:13:57.205> the<00:13:57.302> education<00:13:57.783> business,<00:13:58.104> we<00:13:58.185> transitioned<00:13:59.469> one<00:13:59.630> of<00:13:59.774> our<00:14:00.497> units,<00:14:00.914> one<00:14:01.059> of<00:14:01.091> our<00:14:01.460> businesses<00:14:02.423> from<00:14:02.680> a<00:14:02.761> perpetual<00:14:03.387> license<00:14:03.965> to<00:14:04.189> a<00:14:04.222> monthly<00:14:04.671> recurring<00:14:05.089> revenue<00:14:05.410> stream.

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And<00:14:06.373> it<00:14:06.438> was<00:14:06.598> a<00:14:06.695> difficult<00:14:07.257> couple-year<00:14:07.884> transition.

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Our<00:14:09.025> numbers<00:14:09.411> looked<00:14:09.571> terrible<00:14:09.989> for<00:14:10.150> that<00:14:10.375> unit,<00:14:11.178> but<00:14:11.275> when<00:14:11.451> it<00:14:11.596> finally,<00:14:12.158> when<00:14:12.255> the<00:14:12.383> bow<00:14:12.576> of<00:14:12.641> the<00:14:12.721> boat<00:14:12.978> finally<00:14:13.299> swung<00:14:13.685> around,<00:14:14.071> it<00:14:14.151> was<00:14:14.328> very<00:14:14.649> powerful<00:14:15.519> and<00:14:15.616> it,<00:14:15.843> and<00:14:15.924> it,<00:14:16.166> and<00:14:16.264> it<00:14:16.522> to<00:14:16.668> this<00:14:16.830> day<00:14:17.056> continues<00:14:17.558> to<00:14:17.704> be.

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So<00:14:19.322> it<00:14:19.403> is<00:14:19.581> a<00:14:19.645> great<00:14:19.920> model<00:14:20.390> and<00:14:20.470> it<00:14:20.713> allows<00:14:22.024> small<00:14:22.396> businesses<00:14:22.881> or<00:14:22.978> consumers,<00:14:23.528> whoever<00:14:23.723> your<00:14:23.868> customer<00:14:24.257> is,<00:14:24.922> to<00:14:25.020> sort<00:14:25.231> of<00:14:25.328> pay<00:14:25.653> as<00:14:25.799> they<00:14:25.978> go,<00:14:26.465> which<00:14:26.692> makes<00:14:26.870> it<00:14:26.952> a<00:14:26.968> little<00:14:27.179> bit<00:14:27.292> easier.

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What<00:14:30.397> have<00:14:30.495> you<00:14:30.642> learned<00:14:30.821> about<00:14:31.049> leadership<00:14:31.619> over<00:14:31.863> the<00:14:31.961> years<00:14:32.368> and<00:14:32.776> the<00:14:32.857> difference<00:14:33.329> between<00:14:34.307> leading<00:14:34.730> a<00:14:34.975> private<00:14:35.186> company<00:14:35.431> or<00:14:35.480> an<00:14:35.545> early<00:14:35.594> stage<00:14:35.659> company<00:14:35.822> versus<00:14:37.840> versus<00:14:37.969> a<00:14:38.033> public<00:14:38.436> company<00:14:39.792> and<00:14:40.034> how<00:14:40.211> your<00:14:40.453> leadership<00:14:40.857> changes<00:14:41.195> or<00:14:41.341> doesn't<00:14:41.663> change<00:14:42.051> given<00:14:42.454> the<00:14:42.551> company<00:14:42.873> you're<00:14:43.099> leading.

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I<00:14:45.374> don't<00:14:45.616> think<00:14:46.036> it<00:14:46.165> changes<00:14:46.988> that<00:14:47.230> much<00:14:47.472> between<00:14:47.858> the<00:14:47.890> two.

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I<00:14:48.276> mean,<00:14:48.421> if<00:14:48.517> you're<00:14:48.598> public,<00:14:49.402> you<00:14:49.467> have<00:14:49.579> to<00:14:49.708> be<00:14:49.804> a<00:14:49.821> little<00:14:50.046> bit<00:14:50.191> more<00:14:50.351> careful<00:14:50.834> about<00:14:51.799> referring<00:14:52.153> to<00:14:52.234> specific<00:14:52.797> numbers<00:14:53.360> or,<00:14:53.891> you<00:14:53.923> know,<00:14:53.971> I<00:14:54.164> tend<00:14:54.373> to<00:14:54.454> be<00:14:54.631> pretty<00:14:54.937> open,<00:14:55.260> pretty<00:14:55.421> transparent,<00:14:57.843> you<00:14:58.020> know,<00:14:58.101> nearly<00:14:58.504> an<00:14:58.585> open<00:14:58.908> book<00:14:59.134> management<00:14:59.554> type<00:14:59.796> of<00:14:59.876> approach.

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So<00:15:01.071> people<00:15:01.329> feel<00:15:01.555> like<00:15:02.524> they're<00:15:02.766> in<00:15:02.879> the<00:15:02.959> know<00:15:03.411> and<00:15:03.492> the<00:15:03.589> team<00:15:04.739> is<00:15:05.152> not<00:15:05.399> mushrooms.

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You<00:15:06.765> can't<00:15:07.071> say<00:15:07.329> quite<00:15:07.635> as<00:15:07.796> much<00:15:08.054> when<00:15:08.150> you're<00:15:08.279> a<00:15:08.376> public<00:15:08.617> company,<00:15:09.084> obviously.

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But<00:15:10.211> my<00:15:10.952> philosophy,<00:15:11.661> I<00:15:11.741> guess,<00:15:11.934> is<00:15:12.063> that<00:15:12.240> you<00:15:13.915> have<00:15:14.173> to<00:15:14.253> be<00:15:14.398> clear<00:15:14.736> about<00:15:14.978> what<00:15:15.123> your<00:15:15.220> beliefs<00:15:15.623> are<00:15:16.175> and<00:15:16.256> you<00:15:16.288> have<00:15:16.434> to<00:15:16.516> share<00:15:16.840> those<00:15:17.473> and<00:15:18.528> allow<00:15:19.177> people<00:15:19.534> to<00:15:22.710> self-identify<00:15:23.386> if<00:15:23.531> they<00:15:23.628> can<00:15:23.789> align<00:15:24.272> with<00:15:24.433> those<00:15:24.675> core<00:15:24.997> values,<00:15:25.480> those<00:15:25.786> beliefs.

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And<00:15:26.866> it's<00:15:27.011> amazing,<00:15:27.429> you<00:15:27.558> attract<00:15:28.058> people<00:15:28.444> that<00:15:29.185> share<00:15:29.507> those<00:15:29.749> beliefs,<00:15:30.136> that<00:15:30.232> are<00:15:30.313> inspired<00:15:30.877> by<00:15:31.038> those<00:15:31.279> beliefs.

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And<00:15:32.068> you<00:15:32.100> repel<00:15:32.633> people<00:15:33.375> that<00:15:33.779> don't<00:15:34.005> feel<00:15:34.166> that<00:15:34.408> way<00:15:34.586> and<00:15:34.682> you<00:15:34.828> end<00:15:34.989> up<00:15:35.134> with<00:15:35.247> a<00:15:35.393> pretty<00:15:35.635> locked-in<00:15:36.119> group<00:15:36.297> of<00:15:36.426> people.

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And<00:15:37.491> then<00:15:37.588> I<00:15:37.733> think<00:15:37.894> you<00:15:37.959> have<00:15:38.120> to<00:15:38.282> walk<00:15:38.540> your<00:15:38.701> talk<00:15:39.928> so<00:15:40.154> that<00:15:40.784> you<00:15:40.880> can<00:15:41.187> retain<00:15:41.589> those<00:15:41.831> people<00:15:42.153> who<00:15:43.764> are<00:15:43.845> following<00:15:44.328> you,<00:15:44.489> who<00:15:44.586> believe.

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How<00:15:46.680> have<00:15:46.906> you<00:15:46.986> handled<00:15:47.325> the<00:15:47.631> work-from-home<00:15:48.146> situation<00:15:49.016> given,<00:15:49.580> you<00:15:49.661> know,<00:15:49.790> post-COVID<00:15:50.709> and,<00:15:51.097> you<00:15:51.193> know,<00:15:51.419> the<00:15:51.452> debate<00:15:51.758> over<00:15:52.065> everybody<00:15:52.387> should<00:15:52.549> be<00:15:52.581> in<00:15:52.646> the<00:15:52.807> office,<00:15:53.533> hybrid<00:15:53.937> work,<00:15:54.324> things<00:15:54.485> like<00:15:54.727> that?

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What<00:15:55.792> have<00:15:55.954> you<00:15:56.115> found<00:15:56.438> that<00:15:56.599> works?

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No<00:15:58.080> debate<00:15:58.418> for<00:15:58.563> us.

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We,<00:16:01.074> like<00:16:01.299> everybody<00:16:01.702> else,<00:16:01.943> we<00:16:02.040> scrambled<00:16:03.344> to<00:16:03.553> equip<00:16:03.875> people<00:16:04.197> to<00:16:04.294> work<00:16:04.519> from<00:16:04.680> home<00:16:05.002> over<00:16:05.179> those<00:16:06.145> early<00:16:06.451> days<00:16:06.789> in<00:16:06.886> March<00:16:07.257> when<00:16:07.421> the<00:16:07.600> NBA<00:16:07.943> stopped<00:16:08.351> at<00:16:08.432> halftime<00:16:09.004> and<00:16:09.134> all<00:16:09.232> that.

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And<00:16:09.624> we<00:16:09.722> were<00:16:10.358> all<00:16:10.456> trying<00:16:10.717> to<00:16:10.782> react.

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We<00:16:11.288> were<00:16:11.419> probably<00:16:11.680> a<00:16:11.696> lot<00:16:11.908> like<00:16:12.088> everybody<00:16:12.561> else.

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And<00:16:13.921> we<00:16:14.018> told<00:16:14.260> the<00:16:14.340> people,<00:16:14.728> you<00:16:14.760> know,<00:16:14.889> we'll<00:16:14.986> be<00:16:15.148> out<00:16:15.390> for,<00:16:16.100> you<00:16:16.181> know,<00:16:17.004> a<00:16:17.069> couple<00:16:17.311> of<00:16:17.343> weeks,<00:16:17.634> we'll<00:16:17.811> be<00:16:17.956> updating<00:16:18.376> you.

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And<00:16:19.248> we<00:16:19.345> began<00:16:19.668> to<00:16:19.748> do<00:16:19.910> regular<00:16:20.459> webcasts<00:16:21.346> with<00:16:21.669> our<00:16:21.911> employees.

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In<00:16:23.046> place<00:16:23.303> of<00:16:23.383> the<00:16:23.528> kind<00:16:23.721> of<00:16:24.010> in-person<00:16:24.524> meetings<00:16:24.893> that<00:16:24.990> we<00:16:25.134> used<00:16:25.311> to<00:16:25.456> do.

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And,<00:16:28.122> you<00:16:28.282> know,<00:16:28.427> the<00:16:28.523> first<00:16:28.764> time<00:16:29.005> we<00:16:29.728> extended,<00:16:30.210> we<00:16:30.354> said,<00:16:30.531> well,<00:16:30.708> okay,<00:16:30.997> we're<00:16:32.378> gonna<00:16:32.539> push<00:16:32.860> this<00:16:33.085> out<00:16:33.326> like<00:16:33.487> to<00:16:33.583> the<00:16:33.744> end<00:16:33.840> of<00:16:33.968> April<00:16:34.531> and<00:16:34.948> hopefully<00:16:35.189> we<00:16:35.334> can<00:16:35.430> be<00:16:35.526> back<00:16:35.832> by<00:16:35.992> May<00:16:36.153> 1st.

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And<00:16:37.181> as<00:16:37.277> we<00:16:37.341> went<00:16:37.518> through<00:16:37.679> April,<00:16:38.064> we<00:16:38.145> realized<00:16:39.510> this<00:16:39.703> is<00:16:39.847> not,<00:16:40.008> we're<00:16:40.104> not<00:16:40.249> gonna<00:16:40.393> be<00:16:40.490> back<00:16:40.650> by<00:16:40.827> May<00:16:41.052> 1st.

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This<00:16:41.469> is<00:16:41.534> gonna<00:16:41.694> go<00:16:41.759> on<00:16:42.016> for<00:16:42.096> a<00:16:42.240> while.

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And<00:16:43.558> so<00:16:43.766> pretty<00:16:43.959> quickly<00:16:44.505> we<00:16:44.666> made<00:16:44.907> a<00:16:44.987> decision<00:16:46.433> to<00:16:46.577> go<00:16:46.834> work<00:16:47.059> from<00:16:47.252> anywhere<00:16:48.103> and<00:16:48.922> We<00:16:49.147> had<00:16:49.388> at<00:16:49.468> the<00:16:49.565> time<00:16:50.753> over<00:16:50.866> 600,000<00:16:51.958> square<00:16:52.215> feet<00:16:52.456> of<00:16:52.600> office<00:16:52.777> space,<00:16:53.660> you<00:16:53.692> know,<00:16:53.837> around<00:16:54.078> the<00:16:54.222> world.

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And<00:16:54.865> we're<00:16:55.009> a<00:16:55.186> global<00:16:55.507> company<00:16:56.535> and<00:16:57.595> we<00:16:57.756> just<00:16:57.997> pulled<00:16:58.237> the<00:16:58.302> ripcord<00:16:59.041> and<00:16:59.185> started,<00:16:59.683> you<00:16:59.779> know,<00:17:00.871> subletting<00:17:01.369> where<00:17:01.530> we<00:17:01.674> could,<00:17:01.931> getting<00:17:02.237> out<00:17:02.349> of<00:17:02.413> the<00:17:02.558> buildings.

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And<00:17:03.778> we<00:17:04.003> are<00:17:04.180> a<00:17:04.260> fully<00:17:04.806> work<00:17:04.983> from<00:17:05.144> anywhere<00:17:05.529> company.

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We<00:17:05.947> made<00:17:06.172> that<00:17:06.348> decision<00:17:07.697> only<00:17:08.757> 9<00:17:09.143> or<00:17:09.239> 10<00:17:09.544> weeks<00:17:09.801> into<00:17:09.946> the<00:17:10.042> pandemic.

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We<00:17:11.166> saw<00:17:11.407> the<00:17:11.504> surge<00:17:11.889> in<00:17:11.969> productivity<00:17:12.532> that<00:17:12.692> we<00:17:12.772> got.

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We<00:17:13.736> realized<00:17:14.218> that<00:17:14.443> there,<00:17:14.764> there<00:17:14.925> were<00:17:15.101> downsides,<00:17:15.728> but<00:17:15.840> so<00:17:16.209> many<00:17:16.386> benefits<00:17:16.868> to<00:17:16.948> work<00:17:17.173> from<00:17:17.334> anywhere.

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And<00:17:18.376> so<00:17:18.793> we<00:17:18.953> have,<00:17:20.380> you<00:17:20.460> know,<00:17:20.572> maybe<00:17:20.877> a<00:17:20.957> dozen<00:17:21.277> people<00:17:21.582> that<00:17:21.678> go<00:17:21.903> into<00:17:22.095> our<00:17:22.239> main<00:17:22.560> building<00:17:23.585> every<00:17:23.762> day<00:17:24.066> and<00:17:24.162> kind<00:17:24.307> of<00:17:24.339> make<00:17:24.547> sure<00:17:24.787> all<00:17:24.884> the<00:17:25.445> servers<00:17:25.925> run<00:17:26.230> and<00:17:26.310> the<00:17:26.390> computers<00:17:26.887> run<00:17:27.143> and<00:17:27.272> all<00:17:27.432> that<00:17:27.544> stuff.

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But<00:17:27.929> for<00:17:27.993> the<00:17:28.089> most<00:17:28.394> part,<00:17:29.147> our<00:17:29.291> entire<00:17:30.173> 3,100<00:17:31.375> employee<00:17:32.000> workforce<00:17:33.298> works<00:17:33.619> from<00:17:33.763> wherever<00:17:34.019> they<00:17:34.244> are.

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And<00:17:35.285> that's<00:17:35.606> changed.

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One<00:17:36.263> of<00:17:36.343> the<00:17:36.375> things<00:17:36.584> that<00:17:36.808> people<00:17:37.016> have<00:17:37.064> been<00:17:37.209> able<00:17:37.401> to<00:17:37.545> move<00:17:37.706> home<00:17:37.866> near<00:17:38.106> their<00:17:38.266> folks,<00:17:39.372> people<00:17:39.565> have<00:17:39.629> been<00:17:39.709> able<00:17:39.901> to<00:17:39.949> move<00:17:40.254> to,<00:17:40.494> to<00:17:40.590> the<00:17:40.671> beach,<00:17:40.991> that<00:17:41.151> people<00:17:41.408> have<00:17:41.456> been<00:17:41.616> able<00:17:41.873> to,<00:17:42.594> you<00:17:42.674> know,<00:17:42.995> go<00:17:43.139> wherever<00:17:43.395> they<00:17:43.556> wanted<00:17:43.796> to<00:17:43.860> go.

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And<00:17:44.742> the<00:17:44.838> freedom<00:17:45.303> that's<00:17:45.479> come<00:17:45.703> from<00:17:45.863> that<00:17:46.024> has<00:17:46.120> been<00:17:46.344> powerful.

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And<00:17:47.644> we're<00:17:47.885> a<00:17:47.965> growing<00:17:48.383> software<00:17:48.833> company.

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So<00:17:49.235> we're<00:17:49.411> recruiting<00:17:49.974> a<00:17:49.990> lot<00:17:50.134> of<00:17:50.215> talent,<00:17:50.632> a<00:17:50.681> lot<00:17:50.873> of<00:17:50.938> programmers,<00:17:51.580> a<00:17:51.596> lot<00:17:51.725> of<00:17:51.821> product<00:17:52.143> people,<00:17:53.091> and<00:17:53.508> we<00:17:53.669> can<00:17:53.814> recruit<00:17:54.312> that<00:17:54.553> talent<00:17:54.954> from<00:17:55.195> anywhere.

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You<00:17:55.822> have<00:17:56.079> to<00:17:56.159> pay<00:17:56.240> a<00:17:56.320> little<00:17:56.561> bit<00:17:56.706> of<00:17:56.738> attention<00:17:57.204> to<00:17:58.007> time<00:17:58.393> zones<00:17:58.891> and,<00:17:59.276> you<00:17:59.309> know,<00:17:59.517> legal<00:17:59.774> boundaries.

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But,<00:18:01.140> you<00:18:01.237> know,<00:18:01.381> we<00:18:01.526> have<00:18:01.686> people<00:18:02.811> working<00:18:03.132> from<00:18:03.309> anywhere.

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And<00:18:03.952> as<00:18:04.096> we've<00:18:04.273> been<00:18:04.418> acquiring<00:18:04.996> companies<00:18:06.121> and<00:18:06.201> we<00:18:06.282> find<00:18:06.683> talent<00:18:07.085> in<00:18:07.165> those<00:18:07.326> acquired<00:18:07.808> areas,<00:18:08.194> they're<00:18:08.435> able<00:18:08.611> to<00:18:08.772> work<00:18:09.575> on<00:18:09.720> the<00:18:09.961> main<00:18:10.298> global<00:18:12.210> projects<00:18:12.708> of<00:18:12.773> the<00:18:12.853> company.

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In<00:18:14.314> this<00:18:14.475> work<00:18:14.700> from<00:18:14.812> anywhere<00:18:15.037> environment.

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So<00:18:15.663> we<00:18:15.759> think<00:18:15.984> the<00:18:16.241> benefits<00:18:16.723> are<00:18:16.867> manifest,<00:18:17.461> are<00:18:17.526> huge,<00:18:18.955> and<00:18:19.035> they<00:18:19.131> more<00:18:19.517> than<00:18:19.677> outweigh<00:18:20.657> the<00:18:21.058> little<00:18:21.299> negatives<00:18:21.764> that<00:18:21.925> people<00:18:22.182> focus<00:18:22.648> on.

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And<00:18:23.932> there<00:18:24.028> are<00:18:24.109> ways<00:18:24.349> to<00:18:24.414> overcome<00:18:24.831> those<00:18:25.072> negatives.

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So<00:18:26.742> we<00:18:26.854> are<00:18:26.999> a<00:18:27.159> committed<00:18:27.705> work<00:18:27.882> from<00:18:28.058> anywhere<00:18:28.363> company<00:18:28.749> with<00:18:28.925> no<00:18:29.086> thoughts<00:18:29.503> of<00:18:29.712> ever<00:18:29.873> going<00:18:30.114> back<00:18:30.306> to<00:18:30.370> the<00:18:30.515> office.

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That's<00:18:31.896> interesting.

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And<00:18:32.538> yeah,<00:18:32.843> like<00:18:33.084> a<00:18:33.245> work<00:18:33.421> from<00:18:33.598> anywhere<00:18:34.160> model,<00:18:34.930> you<00:18:35.027> can<00:18:35.171> hire<00:18:35.428> from<00:18:35.653> anywhere<00:18:35.910> in<00:18:35.990> the<00:18:36.135> world,<00:18:36.632> which<00:18:36.809> expands<00:18:37.339> your<00:18:38.559> talent<00:18:38.880> base.

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Exponentially,<00:18:40.486> you<00:18:40.566> know<00:18:40.614> what<00:18:40.727> I<00:18:40.743> mean?

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Like,<00:18:41.064> if<00:18:41.208> you're—<00:18:41.770> I<00:18:41.835> believe<00:18:42.156> you're<00:18:42.252> based<00:18:42.493> in<00:18:42.573> Dallas,<00:18:42.959> right?

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Like,<00:18:43.521> if<00:18:43.842> it's<00:18:44.083> all<00:18:44.259> work<00:18:44.500> from<00:18:45.544> the<00:18:45.688> office,<00:18:46.973> your<00:18:47.294> employee<00:18:47.711> base<00:18:48.273> is<00:18:48.434> Dallas,<00:18:49.622> right?

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Or<00:18:50.585> wherever<00:18:50.923> else<00:18:51.083> your,<00:18:51.388> your,<00:18:51.870> uh,<00:18:52.287> various<00:18:52.753> offices<00:18:53.235> are.

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But<00:18:53.957> I<00:18:54.038> work<00:18:54.214> from<00:18:54.439> anywhere,<00:18:54.857> it's<00:18:55.001> like<00:18:55.178> now<00:18:55.338> you,<00:18:55.643> you<00:18:55.740> can<00:18:56.286> pull<00:18:56.446> from<00:18:56.687> the<00:18:56.783> world,<00:18:57.731> and<00:18:57.827> that<00:18:58.052> obviously<00:18:58.694> has<00:18:58.871> its<00:18:59.047> advantages.

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I<00:19:00.219> wonder,<00:19:00.862> um,<00:19:01.263> you<00:19:01.343> know,<00:19:01.504> the,<00:19:01.681> the<00:19:01.825> concern<00:19:02.259> of<00:19:02.419> the<00:19:02.548> people<00:19:02.788> who<00:19:02.901> say<00:19:03.045> like,<00:19:03.270> hey,<00:19:03.511> you<00:19:03.543> need<00:19:03.672> to<00:19:03.752> be<00:19:03.848> in<00:19:03.993> office<00:19:05.199> is<00:19:05.522> maintaining<00:19:06.167> culture<00:19:07.394> and<00:19:07.458> how<00:19:07.555> do<00:19:07.700> you<00:19:07.765> maintain<00:19:08.426> culture<00:19:09.475> and<00:19:09.814> keep<00:19:10.056> everyone<00:19:10.944> aligned<00:19:11.734> on<00:19:11.831> the<00:19:11.896> mission<00:19:12.251> of<00:19:12.380> the<00:19:12.477> company<00:19:12.864> and<00:19:12.961> things<00:19:13.122> like<00:19:13.284> that.

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How<00:19:13.913> have<00:19:14.155> you<00:19:14.236> managed<00:19:14.666> to<00:19:14.814> do<00:19:15.062> that<00:19:15.640> at<00:19:15.739> Thrive?

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Well,<00:19:18.040> it's<00:19:18.137> an<00:19:18.282> excellent<00:19:18.605> question,<00:19:19.008> and<00:19:19.250> I<00:19:19.411> think<00:19:19.572> you<00:19:19.669> do<00:19:19.814> have<00:19:19.992> to<00:19:20.137> be<00:19:20.556> conscious<00:19:21.105> of<00:19:21.201> it.

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I<00:19:21.992> want<00:19:22.072> to<00:19:22.104> make<00:19:22.330> one<00:19:24.169> editorial<00:19:24.669> comment<00:19:25.056> here<00:19:25.233> that—<00:19:25.556> sure,<00:19:27.100> the<00:19:27.214> worst<00:19:27.476> scenario<00:19:28.345> is<00:19:28.591> the<00:19:28.755> lukewarm<00:19:29.263> Christian.

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Where<00:19:30.486> you're<00:19:31.448> out<00:19:31.528> of<00:19:31.560> the<00:19:31.768> office,<00:19:32.185> but<00:19:32.345> you<00:19:32.426> make<00:19:32.650> people<00:19:32.890> come<00:19:33.067> in<00:19:33.227> some<00:19:33.467> of<00:19:33.532> the<00:19:33.628> time<00:19:34.093> and<00:19:34.189> some<00:19:34.365> of<00:19:34.429> the<00:19:34.509> people<00:19:34.750> are<00:19:34.894> in<00:19:35.071> some<00:19:35.311> of<00:19:35.375> the<00:19:35.407> time<00:19:36.177> because<00:19:36.417> it<00:19:36.577> leaves<00:19:36.914> somebody<00:19:37.379> on<00:19:37.459> the<00:19:37.539> screen<00:19:37.956> and<00:19:38.100> other<00:19:38.277> people<00:19:38.517> in<00:19:38.661> the<00:19:38.741> room.

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When<00:19:40.184> everybody<00:19:40.745> is<00:19:40.841> similarly<00:19:41.322> situated,<00:19:41.948> it<00:19:42.188> works<00:19:42.541> extremely<00:19:43.166> well.

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And<00:19:44.929> now<00:19:45.234> that<00:19:45.554> the<00:19:45.715> pandemic<00:19:46.228> is<00:19:47.398> largely<00:19:47.799> over,<00:19:48.696> we<00:19:48.841> are<00:19:48.937> able<00:19:49.177> to<00:19:49.338> actually<00:19:49.642> get<00:19:49.818> people<00:19:50.059> together<00:19:50.476> in<00:19:50.684> person<00:19:51.021> occasionally,<00:19:51.502> which<00:19:51.742> now<00:19:51.902> we<00:19:52.047> have<00:19:52.127> the<00:19:52.223> best<00:19:52.464> of<00:19:52.528> both<00:19:52.768> worlds.

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So<00:19:53.249> we<00:19:53.329> have<00:19:53.505> the<00:19:53.586> cultural<00:19:54.547> team<00:19:54.788> building<00:19:55.092> of<00:19:55.173> getting<00:19:55.349> together<00:19:55.750> once<00:19:55.990> in<00:19:56.054> a<00:19:56.070> while.

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And<00:19:57.194> we<00:19:57.339> have<00:19:58.626> the<00:19:59.349> productivity<00:20:00.170> and<00:20:00.314> the<00:20:00.491> job<00:20:00.813> joy<00:20:01.682> of<00:20:02.422> being<00:20:02.598> able<00:20:02.743> to<00:20:02.824> work<00:20:03.049> from<00:20:03.226> wherever<00:20:03.933> you<00:20:04.094> want.

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But<00:20:04.898> to<00:20:04.995> answer<00:20:05.172> your<00:20:05.317> question<00:20:05.638> about<00:20:05.880> culture,<00:20:08.554> I've<00:20:08.796> had<00:20:09.941> scores<00:20:10.393> of<00:20:10.473> employees<00:20:10.957> tell<00:20:11.151> me<00:20:11.296> they<00:20:11.458> think<00:20:11.700> that<00:20:12.103> they<00:20:12.264> feel<00:20:12.506> more<00:20:12.813> connected<00:20:13.232> to<00:20:13.329> the<00:20:13.458> company's<00:20:14.668> mission<00:20:15.007> and<00:20:15.152> vision<00:20:15.975> than<00:20:16.071> they<00:20:16.362> ever<00:20:16.539> did<00:20:16.701> when<00:20:16.781> we<00:20:16.943> were<00:20:17.410> in<00:20:17.507> offices.

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We<00:20:18.040> had<00:20:18.136> offices<00:20:18.620> all<00:20:18.781> over<00:20:18.943> the<00:20:19.055> place.

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They<00:20:20.152> feel<00:20:20.249> like<00:20:20.491> they<00:20:20.652> have<00:20:20.813> a<00:20:20.894> better<00:20:21.136> relationship<00:20:21.764> with<00:20:21.942> me<00:20:22.506> as<00:20:22.651> the<00:20:22.732> CEO.

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And<00:20:23.897> the<00:20:24.058> other<00:20:24.235> senior<00:20:24.637> leaders<00:20:25.103> than<00:20:25.215> they<00:20:25.424> ever<00:20:25.666> did<00:20:26.485> because<00:20:26.791> we<00:20:26.952> do<00:20:27.193> regular<00:20:27.675> webcasts<00:20:28.881> at<00:20:28.977> least<00:20:29.379> monthly,<00:20:30.183> sometimes<00:20:30.521> even<00:20:30.810> more<00:20:31.051> than<00:20:31.212> that.

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Having<00:20:33.569> a<00:20:33.698> chat<00:20:33.955> just<00:20:34.116> like<00:20:34.292> the<00:20:34.421> one<00:20:34.582> you<00:20:34.694> and<00:20:34.823> I<00:20:34.855> are<00:20:35.064> having,<00:20:35.963> it<00:20:36.124> feels<00:20:36.445> very<00:20:36.767> one-to-one<00:20:37.345> about<00:20:37.650> what's<00:20:37.875> going<00:20:38.116> on<00:20:38.212> in<00:20:38.277> the<00:20:38.373> business,<00:20:38.775> what<00:20:38.919> we're<00:20:39.080> working<00:20:39.417> on.

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We<00:20:40.205> bring<00:20:40.446> in<00:20:40.703> guests<00:20:41.811> from<00:20:41.908> various<00:20:42.309> functions<00:20:42.775> in<00:20:42.840> the<00:20:42.937> business.

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We<00:20:43.702> do<00:20:43.832> a<00:20:43.848> lot<00:20:44.092> of<00:20:44.173> recognition.

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I<00:20:44.889> think<00:20:45.052> we<00:20:45.149> do<00:20:45.312> way<00:20:45.491> more<00:20:45.800> recognition.

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We<00:20:46.532> do<00:20:46.597> it<00:20:46.759> way<00:20:47.020> better<00:20:47.345> now<00:20:48.239> using<00:20:49.266> a<00:20:49.506> regular<00:20:49.843> webcast<00:20:50.404> cadence<00:20:50.886> than<00:20:51.030> we<00:20:51.270> ever<00:20:51.447> did<00:20:51.671> when<00:20:51.768> we<00:20:51.928> were<00:20:52.008> in<00:20:52.168> person.

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And<00:20:53.435> I<00:20:53.531> think<00:20:53.692> people<00:20:54.013> feel<00:20:54.478> more,<00:20:55.760> more<00:20:55.937> glamour<00:20:56.418> and<00:20:56.578> more<00:20:56.819> recognition<00:20:58.086> in<00:20:58.166> the<00:20:58.246> way<00:20:58.422> that<00:20:58.503> we<00:20:58.663> do<00:20:58.823> it<00:20:58.968> now.

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And<00:20:59.304> we<00:20:59.465> put<00:20:59.625> a<00:20:59.641> lot<00:20:59.802> of<00:20:59.930> effort<00:21:00.170> into<00:21:00.427> it.

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We<00:21:00.908> run<00:21:01.149> basically<00:21:02.335> like<00:21:02.512> a<00:21:02.528> news<00:21:02.913> magazine<00:21:03.538> show<00:21:04.019> on<00:21:04.131> a<00:21:04.195> regular<00:21:04.677> basis<00:21:05.142> where<00:21:05.318> we're,<00:21:06.040> you<00:21:06.120> know,<00:21:06.264> coming<00:21:06.601> together<00:21:07.082> and<00:21:07.162> sharing.

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And<00:21:08.605> I'm<00:21:09.551> always<00:21:09.728> a<00:21:09.872> part<00:21:10.065> in<00:21:10.193> those,<00:21:10.530> in<00:21:10.610> those<00:21:11.893> meetings.

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Including<00:21:16.464> what<00:21:16.689> we're<00:21:17.027> struggling<00:21:17.509> with.

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And<00:21:18.858> I<00:21:18.938> think<00:21:19.179> people<00:21:19.501> feel<00:21:19.822> very<00:21:19.999> connected<00:21:20.465> to<00:21:20.561> that.

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And<00:21:22.007> we<00:21:22.168> have<00:21:22.409> an<00:21:22.633> inscribed,<00:21:23.356> very<00:21:24.160> clear<00:21:24.513> set<00:21:24.802> of<00:21:24.883> core<00:21:25.204> principles<00:21:25.702> and<00:21:25.863> values.

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And<00:21:27.068> we<00:21:27.550> reference<00:21:28.032> those<00:21:28.289> a<00:21:28.353> lot<00:21:28.578> and<00:21:28.674> talk<00:21:28.915> about<00:21:29.702> the<00:21:29.799> decision<00:21:30.200> that<00:21:30.345> we<00:21:30.441> just<00:21:30.602> made<00:21:30.843> to<00:21:30.988> do<00:21:31.164> this<00:21:31.325> ties<00:21:31.791> back<00:21:32.064> to<00:21:32.209> this<00:21:32.996> core<00:21:33.253> value.

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Here's<00:21:34.442> why<00:21:34.699> we're<00:21:34.843> doing<00:21:35.100> it.

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We<00:21:35.261> make<00:21:35.422> sure<00:21:35.582> people<00:21:35.888> have<00:21:36.000> alignment.

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And<00:21:37.334> we<00:21:37.430> make<00:21:37.575> sure<00:21:37.816> that<00:21:37.912> there's<00:21:38.137> a<00:21:38.169> sense<00:21:38.555> of,<00:21:39.502> of,<00:21:39.759> of<00:21:39.984> mission,<00:21:40.402> that<00:21:40.563> there's<00:21:40.788> a<00:21:40.868> cause<00:21:41.286> that<00:21:41.446> we're<00:21:41.591> all<00:21:41.687> pursuing<00:21:42.234> together.

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And<00:21:43.705> people,<00:21:44.176> that's<00:21:44.419> the<00:21:44.516> connective<00:21:44.922> glue<00:21:45.474> that<00:21:45.717> pulls<00:21:45.976> our<00:21:46.139> business<00:21:46.447> together.

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Joe,<00:21:48.993> I<00:21:49.073> can't<00:21:49.300> thank<00:21:49.461> you<00:21:49.494> enough<00:21:49.720> for<00:21:49.882> joining<00:21:50.205> us.

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Seriously,<00:21:50.851> it's<00:21:51.191> a<00:21:51.320> real<00:21:51.562> honor<00:21:52.128> to<00:21:52.225> hear<00:21:52.451> from<00:21:52.645> you<00:21:53.179> and<00:21:53.761> everything<00:21:54.165> you've<00:21:54.310> done<00:21:54.553> in<00:21:54.633> your<00:21:54.795> entrepreneurial<00:21:55.361> journey.

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We<00:21:56.901> end<00:21:57.063> every<00:21:57.241> interview<00:21:57.500> the<00:21:57.565> same<00:21:57.888> way.

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At<00:21:58.536> CEO.com,<00:21:59.410> we<00:21:59.571> believe<00:21:59.830> the<00:21:59.911> chances<00:22:00.381> one<00:22:00.640> gives<00:22:01.368> is<00:22:01.772> equivalent<00:22:02.323> to<00:22:02.404> the<00:22:02.501> chances<00:22:02.970> one<00:22:03.132> takes.

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Yeah,<00:22:11.395> I<00:22:11.620> was,<00:22:12.582> I<00:22:12.759> started<00:22:13.064> my<00:22:13.385> own<00:22:13.561> business.

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I<00:22:14.027> told<00:22:14.267> you<00:22:14.444> initially<00:22:14.990> I<00:22:15.070> was,<00:22:15.664> so<00:22:15.792> I<00:22:15.808> was<00:22:15.969> the<00:22:16.049> head<00:22:16.290> of<00:22:16.370> that<00:22:16.610> business.

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But<00:22:17.477> at<00:22:17.573> one<00:22:17.814> point<00:22:18.199> I<00:22:18.953> sold<00:22:19.403> out.

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I<00:22:19.579> was<00:22:19.804> headhunted<00:22:20.366> into<00:22:20.847> work<00:22:21.329> in<00:22:21.425> a<00:22:21.666> private<00:22:22.853> equity<00:22:24.538> leverage<00:22:25.036> buyout<00:22:25.838> business.

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It<00:22:26.384> was<00:22:26.480> about<00:22:26.721> $20<00:22:27.042> million<00:22:27.362> in<00:22:27.507> revenue.

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And<00:22:28.390> I<00:22:28.550> went<00:22:28.710> in<00:22:28.887> not<00:22:29.208> as<00:22:29.352> the<00:22:29.384> CEO.

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I<00:22:30.010> went<00:22:30.171> in<00:22:30.476> as<00:22:31.936> a<00:22:32.016> key<00:22:32.257> manager<00:22:33.043> and<00:22:33.316> I<00:22:33.461> was<00:22:34.167> working<00:22:34.504> for<00:22:34.728> another<00:22:34.969> CEO.

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And<00:22:35.771> after<00:22:36.028> a<00:22:36.173> period<00:22:36.429> of<00:22:36.510> time,<00:22:37.456> the<00:22:37.553> PE<00:22:38.179> firm<00:22:38.499> became<00:22:39.318> disenchanted<00:22:40.040> with<00:22:40.505> his<00:22:40.682> leadership<00:22:41.243> and<00:22:41.324> some<00:22:41.404> of<00:22:41.484> the<00:22:41.628> company's<00:22:42.046> performance,<00:22:43.073> and<00:22:43.169> they<00:22:43.249> very<00:22:43.490> suddenly<00:22:43.971> fired<00:22:44.388> him.

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And<00:22:45.800> the<00:22:47.020> founder<00:22:47.437> of<00:22:47.517> that<00:22:47.806> business,<00:22:48.368> the<00:22:48.464> guy<00:22:49.090> who<00:22:49.250> had<00:22:50.053> the<00:22:50.213> prior<00:22:50.534> generation,<00:22:51.112> was<00:22:51.192> still<00:22:51.513> on<00:22:51.609> the<00:22:51.754> board,<00:22:52.556> was<00:22:52.716> still<00:22:53.021> around.

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He<00:22:53.583> was<00:22:53.743> in<00:22:53.824> his<00:22:53.936> 60s,<00:22:55.123> was<00:22:55.284> a<00:22:55.348> bit<00:22:55.460> of<00:22:55.540> a<00:22:55.605> mentor<00:22:56.166> to<00:22:56.263> myself<00:22:56.808> and<00:22:56.888> a<00:22:56.904> number<00:22:57.129> of<00:22:57.273> other<00:22:57.514> people.

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He<00:22:58.718> basically<00:22:59.215> vouched<00:22:59.616> for<00:22:59.761> me<00:22:59.953> and<00:23:00.033> said,<00:23:01.060> you<00:23:01.124> know,<00:23:01.847> I<00:23:01.879> know<00:23:02.023> you<00:23:02.103> guys<00:23:02.344> think<00:23:02.504> we<00:23:02.665> have<00:23:02.890> to<00:23:02.986> conduct<00:23:03.323> a<00:23:03.387> search<00:23:03.724> to<00:23:03.868> find<00:23:04.109> a<00:23:04.125> CEO,<00:23:05.217> You<00:23:05.377> don't<00:23:05.538> have<00:23:05.779> to.

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We<00:23:06.036> got<00:23:06.261> the<00:23:06.342> guy.

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He's<00:23:08.029> only<00:23:08.350> 29<00:23:08.848> years<00:23:09.073> old<00:23:10.054> and<00:23:10.118> we're<00:23:10.279> gonna<00:23:10.391> give<00:23:10.488> him<00:23:10.600> the<00:23:10.680> keys<00:23:11.082> to<00:23:11.323> a,<00:23:11.420> you<00:23:11.500> know,<00:23:11.596> a<00:23:11.661> pretty<00:23:11.902> big<00:23:12.063> company,<00:23:12.786> but<00:23:12.882> he<00:23:13.091> can<00:23:13.252> do<00:23:13.428> it.

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He's<00:23:14.152> been<00:23:14.313> a<00:23:14.329> CEO<00:23:14.797> before.

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He<00:23:15.281> knows<00:23:15.507> what<00:23:15.571> he's<00:23:15.749> doing.

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And<00:23:16.959> I'll<00:23:18.185> quarterback<00:23:18.653> coach<00:23:18.911> him<00:23:19.072> and<00:23:19.153> make<00:23:19.249> sure<00:23:19.459> he<00:23:19.556> gets<00:23:19.782> there.

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And<00:23:20.104> so,<00:23:20.266> yeah,<00:23:21.330> he<00:23:21.718> essentially<00:23:24.226> delivered<00:23:25.051> the<00:23:25.197> opportunity<00:23:25.698> to<00:23:25.860> me<00:23:26.248> and<00:23:26.410> I'm<00:23:27.316> forever<00:23:27.785> grateful<00:23:28.190> for<00:23:28.449> it<00:23:28.675> and<00:23:28.837> have<00:23:29.419> done<00:23:29.646> my<00:23:29.824> best<00:23:30.067> to<00:23:30.720> deliver<00:23:31.120> on<00:23:31.286> the,<00:23:33.167> on<00:23:33.263> his<00:23:33.488> confidence<00:23:33.984> in<00:23:34.129> me<00:23:34.241> since.

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It's<00:23:34.706> been<00:23:36.292> about<00:23:36.564> 30<00:23:36.853> years<00:23:37.045> since<00:23:37.269> that<00:23:37.429> happened,<00:23:37.814> but<00:23:39.096> it<00:23:39.657> really<00:23:39.913> gave<00:23:40.217> me<00:23:41.035> the<00:23:41.195> break<00:23:42.172> to<00:23:42.316> manage<00:23:43.021> at<00:23:43.117> a,<00:23:43.246> you<00:23:43.278> know,<00:23:43.838> the<00:23:43.919> prior<00:23:44.239> businesses<00:23:44.704> that<00:23:44.784> I'd<00:23:44.944> been<00:23:45.040> a<00:23:45.120> leader<00:23:45.441> in<00:23:45.665> were<00:23:45.841> a<00:23:45.921> few<00:23:46.162> million<00:23:46.386> in<00:23:46.482> revenue.

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We<00:23:47.588> grew<00:23:47.764> that<00:23:48.004> into<00:23:48.149> a<00:23:48.229> $4<00:23:48.565> billion<00:23:49.190> company<00:23:50.312> and<00:23:50.648> took<00:23:50.872> it<00:23:50.953> public<00:23:51.289> on<00:23:51.417> the<00:23:51.513> London<00:23:51.770> Stock<00:23:52.106> Exchange<00:23:52.475> with<00:23:52.555> 16,500<00:23:53.949> employees.

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And,<00:23:55.615> you<00:23:56.016> know,<00:23:56.160> I'm<00:23:56.432> a<00:23:56.577> pretty<00:23:56.753> simple<00:23:57.121> guy.

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My<00:23:57.458> dad<00:23:57.762> was<00:23:57.874> the<00:23:58.003> mailman.

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I<00:23:58.483> never<00:23:58.676> even<00:23:58.900> graduated<00:23:59.461> college.

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So<00:24:00.982> this<00:24:01.144> guy<00:24:01.403> gave<00:24:01.565> me<00:24:01.727> that<00:24:01.889> opportunity<00:24:02.471> and<00:24:02.552> I<00:24:02.633> made<00:24:02.860> the<00:24:02.941> most<00:24:03.200> of<00:24:03.248> it.

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That's<00:24:05.606> incredible.

00:24:06.090 --> 00:24:08.253
Joe,<00:24:06.349> thank<00:24:06.671> you<00:24:06.752> so<00:24:06.978> much<00:24:07.252> again<00:24:07.559> for<00:24:07.704> coming<00:24:07.962> on.

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Best<00:24:09.188> of<00:24:09.318> luck<00:24:09.479> with<00:24:09.640> everything,<00:24:09.995> and<00:24:10.076> I'm<00:24:10.205> sure<00:24:10.366> we'll<00:24:10.463> see<00:24:10.560> you<00:24:10.625> down<00:24:10.850> the<00:24:10.931> road.

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Thanks<00:24:11.706> so<00:24:11.754> much.

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All<00:24:12.141> right.

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Thanks<00:24:12.480> a<00:24:12.545> lot.

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Enjoyed<00:24:13.368> the<00:24:13.448> conversation.

```