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# Yondr Founder & CEO Graham Dugoni: From Dave Chappelle shows to phone-free schools
- URL: https://www.ceo.com/episodes/yondr-founder-ceo-graham-dugoni/
- Published: 2025-05-22T10:00:07.000Z
- Updated: 2026-08-25T02:35:53.000Z
- Description: Yondr founder Graham Dugoni explains how phone-free pouches are transforming concerts and classrooms, why he's lived without a smartphone for a decade, and how a chance partnership with Dave Chappelle helped launch a cultural movement.
- Author: Clint Betts

# Graham Dugoni doesn't have a smartphone

Graham Dugoni has carried a flip phone for 10 years. He runs Yondr, a company operating in [all 50 states and 45 countries](https://www.the74million.org/article/from-biker-bars-to-schools-yondr-founder-sees-phone-pouches-as-impulse-disrupters/?ref=ceo.com), from a laptop. The news reaches him through friends, a few days late. "I get it through a funny filter where people have already digested it," he said on the CEO.com Podcast.

Yondr makes a lockable pouch. You put your phone in it when you walk into a school or a concert hall, you keep it with you, and it opens when you leave. Dugoni founded the company in San Francisco in 2014, in the middle of the tech boom, when the industry was promising that more connection would fix everything. He had spent years reading Kierkegaard, Heidegger, and Marshall McLuhan, and he thought the promise was wrong. 

"My idea was that we're going to need these phone-free spaces to preserve things that are inherently, fundamentally important to people of all ages, and that tend to be eroded in the presence of technology," he said.

He started with about 500 pouches he made himself from hardware store materials, selling door to door out of the back of a camper. [His first customer was an Oakland biker bar](https://www.the74million.org/article/from-biker-bars-to-schools-yondr-founder-sees-phone-pouches-as-impulse-disrupters/?ref=ceo.com) that wanted to stop patrons from filming its burlesque shows. Venture capitalists laughed at him. 

"At that point, I said, well, if you don't get it, then I'm definitely right. This is definitely going somewhere."

Before any of this, Dugoni played soccer at Duke and then professionally in Norway. He didn't speak the language. He practiced once a day and spent the rest of his time hiking. "It's a thing a lot of young people, maybe a lot of people, don't get now," he said. "Just the time to take things in and think about what you're doing and where you want to go."

The company's break came in 2015, when [Dave Chappelle's manager called](https://www.the74million.org/article/from-biker-bars-to-schools-yondr-founder-sees-phone-pouches-as-impulse-disrupters/?ref=ceo.com), wanting the pouches to enforce a no-phones policy at his shows. Dugoni flew out with a friend and his 500 pouches. "He was the first artist I spoke with who understood the mission of the company," Dugoni said. [Bob Dylan, Rihanna, and Chris Rock followed](https://bigthink.com/business/why-the-medium-is-still-the-message/?ref=ceo.com), and in 2024 Time named the pouch [one of the best inventions of the year](https://time.com/collections/best-inventions-2024/7094783/yondr-pouch/?ref=ceo.com).

Schools were slower. For a decade, Yondr evangelized the phone-free school to educators who weren't sure they had a problem. Then came COVID, and parents watched their kids learn through screens for a year. "We weren't any longer out evangelizing a phone-free school," Dugoni said. "People were going, how does this work?"

Yondr says [more than 3 million students](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20260413255451/en/As-Yondr-Reaches-3-Million-Students-Worldwide-New-Report-Tracks-the-Impact-of-a-Phone-Free-Education?ref=ceo.com) now start their school day in a pouch, and that 58 percent of countries have national school phone policies, up from 24 percent in 2023\. California's Phone-Free School Act requires every school district, county office of education, and charter school in the state to adopt a policy limiting or prohibiting student smartphone use [by July 1, 2026](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill%5Fid=202320240AB3216&ref=ceo.com).

The independent research is more equivocal than the growth curve. In April, the National Bureau of Economic Research published [the first national study of lockable pouches](https://www.nber.org/papers/w35132?ref=ceo.com), by economists at Stanford, Duke, Penn, and Michigan, who combined Yondr's sales and administrative records with GPS pings, test scores, and school data. Yondr provided access to the data and did not fund the work. 

The authors found that pouches substantially reduce phone use. They also found that in the first year after adoption, disciplinary incidents rise and student well-being falls, and that both effects reverse in later years. Average effects on test scores were close to zero, with high schools gaining modestly in math and middle schools slipping slightly.

What Dugoni hears from schools is warmer than what the economists measured. "After two to three weeks, most schools see a reduction in disciplinary issues and fights by over 50 percent," he said. "You hear kids are starting to play sports again at lunch. I've heard from librarians that more books have been checked out sometimes in the first three weeks of school than the entire previous school year."

He has turned off AI inside his employees' email. "The idea of two computers talking to each other is just silly," he said. "I care too much about our team and their growth and their development of critical thinking faculties to have them outsource all of that to a computer." He says the same logic applies to his flip phone. People who start the day inhaling social media, he said, can become "a bit of a river without banks."

He doesn't expect the industry to solve this. "Tech companies aren't going to come and give you that space. It is not how capitalism works. So you have to go carve those out and defend them," he said. What convinced Chappelle, and what he believes convinces anyone who has stood in a crowd where nobody is filming, isn't an argument. "That has an extremely beneficial effect on society, I believe. Better than anybody can write in any op-ed, because it hits you more in the chest than just in the brain."

```chapters
00:00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:00:12 What Is Yondr and Phone-Free Spaces
00:01:36 Founding Yondr and Initial Vision
00:02:39 Early Challenges and Validation
00:03:53 Professional Soccer and Lessons Learned
00:05:35 Thoughts on AI and Technology
00:07:20 Impact of Phone-Free Schools
00:09:06 Living Without a Smartphone
00:12:13 Reading Preferences and Recommendations
00:12:58 Economic Outlook and Selling to Schools
00:15:07 Giving and Taking Chances
00:16:46 Collaboration With Dave Chappelle
00:17:59 Cultural Impact of Phone-Free Spaces
```

```vtt
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Graham,<00:00:07.001> thanks<00:00:07.225> for<00:00:07.321> coming<00:00:07.546> on<00:00:07.626> the<00:00:07.706> show.

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At<00:02:35.333> what<00:02:35.494> point<00:02:35.670> did<00:02:35.830> you<00:02:35.975> realize,<00:02:36.375> hey,<00:02:36.872> we're<00:02:37.097> on<00:02:37.257> to<00:02:37.289> something<00:02:37.674> here,<00:02:37.994> this<00:02:38.171> is<00:02:38.283> going<00:02:38.347> to<00:02:38.459> work?

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In<00:02:39.277> 2014,<00:02:40.078> remember,<00:02:40.319> there<00:02:40.415> was<00:02:40.559> no<00:02:40.703> such<00:02:40.976> thing<00:02:41.184> as<00:02:41.296> a<00:02:41.360> phone-free<00:02:41.761> space<00:02:42.162> or<00:02:42.306> a<00:02:42.322> phone-free<00:02:42.659> school.

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So<00:02:43.364> when<00:02:43.460> I<00:02:43.508> was<00:02:43.621> going<00:02:43.749> around<00:02:44.230> at<00:02:44.326> that<00:02:44.470> point<00:02:44.807> talking<00:02:45.111> to<00:02:45.191> people<00:02:45.544> door<00:02:45.769> to<00:02:45.849> door,<00:02:46.410> I<00:02:46.426> was<00:02:46.554> doing<00:02:46.762> this<00:02:46.875> out<00:02:46.955> of<00:02:46.987> the<00:02:47.115> back<00:02:47.291> of<00:02:47.355> my<00:02:47.452> camper.

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In<00:02:48.173> 2014,<00:02:48.798> I<00:02:48.814> had<00:02:48.974> a<00:02:49.055> bunch<00:02:49.311> of<00:02:49.375> maybe<00:02:49.535> 500<00:02:50.337> hand-sewn<00:02:50.898> pouches<00:02:51.459> that<00:02:51.619> I<00:02:51.683> had<00:02:51.860> made<00:02:52.244> myself<00:02:52.870> at<00:02:53.070> a<00:02:53.071> hardware<00:02:53.330> store<00:02:53.670> in<00:02:53.830> San<00:02:54.030> Francisco,<00:02:54.690> and<00:02:54.950> I<00:02:55.070> got<00:02:55.290> a<00:02:55.750> lot<00:02:55.870> of<00:02:55.990> rejection.

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I<00:02:56.810> think<00:02:56.950> this,<00:02:57.430> the<00:02:57.450> first<00:02:57.650> validating<00:02:58.290> point<00:02:58.550> I<00:02:58.810> had<00:02:59.070> probably<00:02:59.350> was<00:02:59.510> when<00:02:59.670> I<00:02:59.750> went<00:02:59.890> to<00:03:00.110> talk<00:03:00.310> and<00:03:00.470> try<00:03:00.650> to<00:03:00.750> pitch<00:03:00.909> to<00:03:01.090> a<00:03:01.150> couple<00:03:01.470> venture<00:03:02.080> capitalists<00:03:02.530> and<00:03:02.710> they<00:03:02.890> basically<00:03:03.290> laughed<00:03:03.590> me<00:03:03.730> out<00:03:03.850> of<00:03:03.930> the<00:03:04.090> room.

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And<00:03:04.770> at<00:03:05.470> that<00:03:05.690> point<00:03:05.870> I<00:03:05.970> said,<00:03:06.230> well,<00:03:06.250> if<00:03:06.350> you<00:03:06.430> don't<00:03:06.590> get<00:03:06.790> it,<00:03:07.070> then<00:03:07.210> I'm<00:03:07.470> definitely<00:03:07.910> right.

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This<00:03:08.570> is<00:03:08.710> definitely<00:03:09.070> going<00:03:09.290> somewhere.

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So<00:03:10.570> it<00:03:11.190> was<00:03:11.250> probably<00:03:11.570> negative<00:03:12.030> reinforcement<00:03:12.630> that<00:03:12.910> first<00:03:13.110> told<00:03:13.290> me,<00:03:13.610> hey,<00:03:13.670> this<00:03:13.830> is,<00:03:14.590> I'm<00:03:14.910> onto<00:03:15.110> something.

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But<00:03:15.990> then<00:03:16.190> later<00:03:16.430> on,<00:03:16.870> getting<00:03:17.130> a<00:03:17.390> few<00:03:17.510> people<00:03:17.790> to<00:03:17.970> actually<00:03:18.130> let<00:03:18.290> me<00:03:18.410> try<00:03:18.710> it<00:03:18.810> in<00:03:18.950> a<00:03:18.970> venue<00:03:19.210> was<00:03:19.390> my<00:03:19.570> first<00:03:19.750> real<00:03:20.190> hands-on<00:03:20.530> experience.

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And<00:03:21.170> when<00:03:21.250> I<00:03:21.270> started<00:03:21.510> to<00:03:21.770> talk<00:03:21.930> to<00:03:22.130> folks<00:03:22.410> at<00:03:22.610> the<00:03:22.770> ground,<00:03:23.290> level<00:03:23.642> inside<00:03:23.963> shows<00:03:24.445> and<00:03:24.525> schools.

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Even<00:03:25.568> in<00:03:25.648> 2014,<00:03:26.530> I<00:03:26.611> knew<00:03:27.156> that<00:03:27.413> people<00:03:27.637> were<00:03:27.734> wrestling<00:03:28.135> with<00:03:28.279> the<00:03:28.359> question,<00:03:28.921> even<00:03:29.033> if<00:03:29.162> they<00:03:29.322> couldn't<00:03:29.563> articulate<00:03:30.124> it<00:03:30.204> yet.

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People<00:03:31.119> were<00:03:31.183> wrestling<00:03:31.568> with<00:03:31.648> this<00:03:31.809> question<00:03:32.066> of<00:03:32.226> what<00:03:32.386> is<00:03:32.467> the<00:03:32.611> role<00:03:32.852> of<00:03:32.948> technology<00:03:33.493> in<00:03:33.654> daily<00:03:33.991> life<00:03:34.552> and<00:03:34.633> how<00:03:35.034> do<00:03:35.691> we<00:03:35.756> start<00:03:36.141> to<00:03:36.237> create<00:03:36.478> some<00:03:36.622> structure<00:03:36.959> around<00:03:37.344> that<00:03:37.520> question?

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But<00:03:38.627> all<00:03:38.740> that<00:03:39.510> on-the-ground<00:03:39.927> experience<00:03:40.489> and<00:03:40.569> going<00:03:40.809> door<00:03:40.970> to<00:03:41.114> door<00:03:41.371> for<00:03:41.676> years<00:03:42.638> is<00:03:42.735> kind<00:03:42.959> of<00:03:43.056> what<00:03:43.762> helped<00:03:43.938> me<00:03:44.098> realize<00:03:45.446> how<00:03:45.623> to<00:03:46.024> grow<00:03:46.264> it.

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And<00:03:47.131> you<00:03:47.291> played<00:03:47.532> professional<00:03:47.949> soccer,<00:03:48.350> right?

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I<00:03:49.020> did<00:03:49.200> for<00:03:49.340> a<00:03:49.520> bit<00:03:49.720> after<00:03:50.240> college.

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Yeah.

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What<00:03:51.840> was<00:03:52.020> that<00:03:52.200> experience<00:03:52.600> like?

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I<00:03:53.360> mean,<00:03:53.600> it<00:03:53.601> was<00:03:53.740> a<00:03:53.880> cool<00:03:54.020> experience.

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I<00:03:55.060> was,<00:03:55.220> you<00:03:55.320> know,<00:03:55.580> young.

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I<00:03:56.280> was<00:03:56.520> traveling<00:03:56.680> around,<00:03:57.680> got<00:03:57.920> to<00:03:58.080> live<00:03:58.180> in<00:03:58.260> Norway<00:03:58.580> for<00:03:58.780> a<00:03:58.960> while.

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It<00:03:59.880> was<00:04:00.000> great.

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You<00:04:00.620> know,<00:04:00.820> I<00:04:00.821> grew<00:04:01.000> up<00:04:01.180> being<00:04:01.340> a<00:04:01.440> soccer<00:04:01.680> player,<00:04:02.020> so<00:04:02.021> that<00:04:02.120> was<00:04:02.200> kind<00:04:02.380> of<00:04:02.460> my<00:04:02.520> life.

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It<00:04:03.680> afforded<00:04:03.980> me<00:04:04.020> a<00:04:04.080> lot<00:04:04.220> of<00:04:04.260> benefits.

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I<00:04:04.720> got<00:04:04.840> to<00:04:04.980> travel.

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I<00:04:05.620> got<00:04:05.780> to<00:04:05.920> be<00:04:06.000> part<00:04:06.140> of,<00:04:06.420> you<00:04:06.640> know,<00:04:06.920> great<00:04:07.140> teams.

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Taught<00:04:08.220> me<00:04:08.320> a<00:04:08.400> lot<00:04:08.500> of<00:04:08.860> things,<00:04:09.040> discipline,<00:04:10.040> you<00:04:10.041> know,<00:04:10.480> competitive<00:04:10.720> drive.

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But<00:04:11.560> mostly,<00:04:12.180> especially<00:04:12.380> in<00:04:12.600> my<00:04:12.620> early<00:04:12.880> and<00:04:13.040> mid-20s,<00:04:13.540> I<00:04:13.600> think<00:04:13.760> it<00:04:13.900> gave<00:04:13.960> me<00:04:14.080> a<00:04:14.160> lot<00:04:14.260> of<00:04:14.440> time.

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'Cause<00:04:15.403> when<00:04:15.467> I<00:04:15.627> was<00:04:15.723> in<00:04:15.884> Norway<00:04:16.205> playing,<00:04:16.926> I'd<00:04:17.071> go<00:04:17.247> practice,<00:04:17.728> but<00:04:17.872> I<00:04:17.888> didn't<00:04:18.049> speak<00:04:18.305> the<00:04:18.370> language.

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So<00:04:19.396> I'd<00:04:19.572> go<00:04:19.733> practice<00:04:20.134> once<00:04:20.390> a<00:04:20.454> day<00:04:20.679> and<00:04:20.759> I<00:04:20.855> had<00:04:20.952> the<00:04:21.032> rest<00:04:21.320> of<00:04:21.352> the<00:04:21.401> day<00:04:21.497> to<00:04:21.577> myself.

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So<00:04:22.603> I'd<00:04:22.700> go<00:04:23.020> hiking,<00:04:23.726> I'd<00:04:23.822> go<00:04:24.239> do,<00:04:24.608> you<00:04:24.640> know,<00:04:24.720> meander<00:04:25.105> around.

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I<00:04:25.522> think<00:04:26.051> it's<00:04:26.148> a<00:04:26.212> thing<00:04:26.372> a<00:04:26.388> lot<00:04:26.516> of<00:04:26.548> young<00:04:26.789> people,<00:04:27.174> maybe<00:04:27.447> a<00:04:27.511> lot<00:04:27.687> of<00:04:27.751> people<00:04:28.008> don't<00:04:28.296> get<00:04:28.473> now.

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It's<00:04:29.018> just<00:04:29.130> the<00:04:29.275> time<00:04:29.692> to<00:04:29.836> like<00:04:30.317> take<00:04:30.542> things<00:04:30.798> in,<00:04:31.119> think<00:04:31.295> about<00:04:31.504> what<00:04:31.664> you're<00:04:31.760> doing,<00:04:32.466> where<00:04:32.803> you<00:04:32.883> want<00:04:33.011> to<00:04:33.108> go.

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Yeah,<00:04:34.326> for<00:04:34.471> sure.

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Yeah.

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What<00:04:36.411> principles<00:04:36.876> have<00:04:36.973> you<00:04:37.053> taken<00:04:37.357> from<00:04:37.454> like<00:04:37.614> being<00:04:37.855> an<00:04:37.935> athlete,<00:04:38.640> having<00:04:38.961> to<00:04:39.202> kind<00:04:39.314> of<00:04:39.378> perform<00:04:39.859> at<00:04:39.939> that<00:04:40.164> level,<00:04:40.870> to<00:04:41.410> starting<00:04:42.090> your<00:04:42.330> company<00:04:42.670> and<00:04:42.890> being<00:04:43.070> an<00:04:43.430> entrepreneur?

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I<00:04:44.550> think,<00:04:45.070> I<00:04:45.250> think<00:04:45.470> they're<00:04:45.570> mostly<00:04:45.750> lessons<00:04:46.070> I<00:04:46.210> don't<00:04:46.390> really<00:04:46.770> consciously<00:04:47.170> think<00:04:47.450> about<00:04:47.670> anymore.

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They're<00:04:48.210> kind<00:04:48.390> of<00:04:48.430> just<00:04:48.610> become<00:04:48.930> ingrained<00:04:49.290> in<00:04:49.530> your<00:04:49.750> personality.

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I<00:04:50.910> think<00:04:51.750> competitive<00:04:52.230> drive<00:04:52.570> and<00:04:52.730> discipline<00:04:53.110> is<00:04:53.270> one<00:04:53.470> that<00:04:53.590> you<00:04:53.710> just<00:04:53.890> have<00:04:54.150> to<00:04:54.350> learn<00:04:54.530> if<00:04:54.770> you're<00:04:54.990> going<00:04:55.030> to<00:04:55.130> be<00:04:55.310> an<00:04:55.510> athlete,<00:04:55.790> because<00:04:55.930> you<00:04:56.210> have<00:04:56.350> to<00:04:56.470> do<00:04:56.610> a<00:04:56.830> lot<00:04:56.831> of<00:04:56.970> things<00:04:57.089> you<00:04:57.210> don't<00:04:57.390> necessarily<00:04:57.970> want<00:04:58.290> to<00:04:58.430> do<00:04:58.550> every<00:04:58.790> day.

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I<00:04:59.470> think<00:04:59.590> there's<00:04:59.770> other<00:05:00.010> things<00:05:00.250> I<00:05:00.410> learned<00:05:00.730> over<00:05:01.010> time<00:05:01.330> about<00:05:01.650> just<00:05:02.470> learning<00:05:02.970> itself,<00:05:03.810> you<00:05:03.850> know,<00:05:04.010> how<00:05:04.150> you<00:05:04.350> master<00:05:04.650> the<00:05:04.830> fundamentals<00:05:05.250> of<00:05:05.470> something<00:05:05.790> and<00:05:05.950> relegate<00:05:06.270> it<00:05:06.550> to<00:05:06.630> your<00:05:06.770> subconscious<00:05:07.270> that<00:05:07.450> I've<00:05:07.690> kept<00:05:07.870> on<00:05:08.050> applying<00:05:08.430> as<00:05:08.630> I've<00:05:08.870> gone<00:05:09.430> and<00:05:09.690> tried<00:05:09.890> to<00:05:10.030> tackle<00:05:10.310> new<00:05:10.530> problems.

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Kind<00:05:10.870> of<00:05:10.890> the<00:05:10.910> art<00:05:10.930> of<00:05:10.950> self-teaching.

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But<00:05:12.910> probably<00:05:13.210> the<00:05:13.330> biggest<00:05:13.570> one<00:05:13.770> is<00:05:13.910> just<00:05:14.170> if<00:05:15.110> you<00:05:15.250> grow<00:05:15.430> up<00:05:15.990> and<00:05:16.370> you<00:05:16.710> work<00:05:17.170> and<00:05:17.530> you<00:05:17.750> participate<00:05:18.690> in<00:05:18.930> sports<00:05:19.130> and<00:05:19.390> you're<00:05:19.670> on<00:05:19.850> teams<00:05:20.190> a<00:05:20.450> lot,<00:05:21.250> you<00:05:21.270> know<00:05:21.450> how<00:05:21.570> to<00:05:21.710> get<00:05:22.070> through<00:05:22.910> things<00:05:23.210> and<00:05:23.390> not<00:05:23.550> complain<00:05:24.010> and<00:05:24.450> know<00:05:24.670> how<00:05:24.750> to<00:05:24.890> kind<00:05:25.150> of<00:05:25.151> get<00:05:25.270> through<00:05:25.470> difficult<00:05:25.790> moments<00:05:26.190> and<00:05:26.330> then<00:05:26.510> come<00:05:26.690> back<00:05:26.870> and<00:05:27.010> reflect<00:05:27.330> after.

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Whereas<00:05:28.590> sometimes<00:05:29.090> when<00:05:29.350> I,<00:05:29.810> you<00:05:29.890> know,<00:05:30.190> encounter<00:05:30.310> people<00:05:30.530> who<00:05:30.770> haven't<00:05:30.930> had<00:05:31.150> some<00:05:31.330> of<00:05:31.430> those<00:05:31.610> experiences,<00:05:32.390> it's<00:05:32.710> a<00:05:32.930> little<00:05:33.050> less<00:05:33.310> natural,<00:05:33.930> I<00:05:33.931> would<00:05:34.150> say,<00:05:34.450> that<00:05:34.710> kind<00:05:34.950> of<00:05:35.110> flow.

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How<00:05:35.730> are<00:05:35.890> you<00:05:36.110> thinking<00:05:36.470> about<00:05:37.050> AI?

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I<00:05:37.910> mean,<00:05:38.050> how<00:05:38.150> do<00:05:38.330> you<00:05:38.370> implement<00:05:38.730> AI<00:05:39.110> inside<00:05:39.390> of<00:05:39.630> your<00:05:39.730> own<00:05:39.950> company?

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You've<00:05:40.490> got<00:05:40.510> a<00:05:40.630> really<00:05:40.790> interesting<00:05:41.150> company<00:05:41.430> here<00:05:41.570> and<00:05:41.690> like,<00:05:42.312> You're<00:05:42.393> trying<00:05:42.633> to<00:05:42.698> get<00:05:42.778> everybody<00:05:43.147> to<00:05:43.259> just<00:05:43.420> avoid<00:05:43.757> these<00:05:43.982> things<00:05:44.174> entirely<00:05:44.688> and<00:05:44.736> just<00:05:44.880> be<00:05:45.041> present,<00:05:45.442> which<00:05:45.667> is<00:05:46.630> the<00:05:46.710> right<00:05:46.887> thing<00:05:47.031> to<00:05:47.079> do.

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Well,<00:05:47.850> not<00:05:47.914> entirely.

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Look,<00:05:48.652> I<00:05:48.717> mean,<00:05:48.845> I'm<00:05:48.973> not—<00:05:49.615> we're<00:05:49.696> all<00:05:49.856> living<00:05:50.097> in<00:05:50.177> the<00:05:50.257> world,<00:05:50.579> so<00:05:50.739> when<00:05:51.317> it<00:05:51.461> rains,<00:05:51.847> we<00:05:51.943> all<00:05:52.023> get<00:05:52.248> wet.

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It's<00:05:53.131> not<00:05:53.243> like<00:05:53.869> you<00:05:53.965> can't<00:05:54.575> really<00:05:54.816> put<00:05:54.976> the<00:05:55.073> genie<00:05:55.394> back<00:05:55.634> in<00:05:55.699> the<00:05:55.795> bottle<00:05:56.180> per<00:05:56.293> se.

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So<00:05:56.903> it's<00:05:57.063> not—<00:05:57.721> for<00:05:57.866> me,<00:05:57.962> it's<00:05:58.074> not<00:05:58.187> exactly<00:05:59.230> negating<00:05:59.711> all<00:05:59.808> technology.

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I'm<00:06:00.610> aware<00:06:00.931> the<00:06:01.012> world<00:06:01.252> is<00:06:01.397> moving<00:06:01.670> forward<00:06:02.135> and<00:06:02.440> I<00:06:02.520> view<00:06:02.681> phone-free<00:06:03.018> spaces<00:06:03.885> as<00:06:03.981> a<00:06:04.767> constructive<00:06:05.409> move<00:06:05.586> into<00:06:05.763> the<00:06:05.827> future,<00:06:06.389> not<00:06:06.565> a<00:06:06.581> turning<00:06:06.774> the<00:06:06.902> clock<00:06:07.159> backwards.

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I<00:06:07.865> think<00:06:08.122> maybe<00:06:08.379> when<00:06:08.571> people<00:06:08.892> think<00:06:09.149> about<00:06:09.514> the<00:06:09.534> role<00:06:09.727> of<00:06:09.855> technology,<00:06:10.498> AI<00:06:10.626> included,<00:06:11.204> they<00:06:11.332> tend<00:06:11.589> to<00:06:11.717> think<00:06:11.974> about<00:06:12.231> maybe<00:06:13.660> the<00:06:13.756> symptoms,<00:06:14.318> or,<00:06:14.977> or<00:06:15.041> how<00:06:15.234> can<00:06:15.378> we<00:06:15.523> kind<00:06:15.764> of<00:06:16.438> move<00:06:16.808> the<00:06:16.872> needle<00:06:17.547> to<00:06:17.691> use<00:06:17.932> it<00:06:18.029> better?

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And<00:06:18.751> that's<00:06:18.928> not<00:06:19.217> wrong,<00:06:19.555> but<00:06:19.956> to<00:06:20.085> me,<00:06:20.454> technology<00:06:21.000> fundamentally<00:06:21.562> affects<00:06:21.884> people<00:06:22.205> at<00:06:22.285> a<00:06:22.365> more<00:06:22.526> physiological<00:06:23.249> level,<00:06:23.891> and<00:06:23.988> physical<00:06:24.373> boundaries<00:06:24.919> are<00:06:25.000> very<00:06:25.112> important<00:06:25.578> if<00:06:25.723> you<00:06:25.803> want<00:06:25.931> to<00:06:26.044> grasp<00:06:26.445> how<00:06:26.574> to<00:06:26.686> create<00:06:26.943> habits<00:06:27.409> and<00:06:27.650> navigate<00:06:28.148> the<00:06:28.228> world.

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So<00:06:28.951> as<00:06:29.048> a<00:06:29.112> company,<00:06:29.899> you<00:06:29.995> know,<00:06:30.076> we're<00:06:30.188> scaling<00:06:30.798> and<00:06:31.184> we've<00:06:31.345> gotten<00:06:31.521> quite<00:06:31.666> a<00:06:31.762> bit<00:06:31.923> bigger,<00:06:32.485> but<00:06:33.754> I've<00:06:33.866> turned<00:06:34.156> off<00:06:34.429> artificial<00:06:34.975> intelligence<00:06:35.521> inside<00:06:35.858> of<00:06:35.955> our—<00:06:36.420> everyone's<00:06:37.448> emails,<00:06:38.428> because<00:06:38.669> to<00:06:38.798> me,<00:06:39.456> There's<00:06:39.616> a<00:06:39.632> couple<00:06:39.937> reasons.

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One,<00:06:40.675> the<00:06:40.819> idea<00:06:40.995> of<00:06:41.091> a<00:06:41.220> computer,<00:06:42.134> someone<00:06:42.903> at<00:06:42.951> our<00:06:43.080> company<00:06:43.400> talking<00:06:43.833> to<00:06:43.897> someone<00:06:44.122> externally,<00:06:44.523> two<00:06:44.763> computers<00:06:45.180> talking<00:06:45.806> to<00:06:45.950> each<00:06:46.110> other<00:06:46.287> is<00:06:46.431> just<00:06:47.425> silly.

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And<00:06:48.275> then<00:06:48.836> I<00:06:49.157> care<00:06:49.413> too<00:06:49.574> much<00:06:49.750> about<00:06:49.958> our<00:06:50.055> team<00:06:50.375> and<00:06:50.456> their<00:06:50.616> growth<00:06:50.953> and<00:06:51.081> their<00:06:51.177> development<00:06:52.043> of<00:06:52.139> critical<00:06:52.460> thinking<00:06:52.861> faculties<00:06:53.422> to<00:06:53.566> have<00:06:53.807> them<00:06:54.047> outsource<00:06:54.464> all<00:06:54.608> of<00:06:54.641> that<00:06:54.929> to<00:06:55.009> a<00:06:55.025> computer,<00:06:55.747> which<00:06:55.971> I<00:06:56.068> think<00:06:56.292> will<00:06:56.388> be<00:06:56.613> one<00:06:56.725> of<00:06:56.789> the<00:06:56.950> fundamental<00:06:57.896> outgrowths<00:06:58.248> of<00:06:58.393> artificial<00:06:58.777> intelligence<00:07:00.092> is<00:07:00.221> just<00:07:00.381> a<00:07:00.413> slackening<00:07:00.878> of<00:07:00.974> the<00:07:01.054> brain<00:07:01.359> at<00:07:01.455> some<00:07:01.616> level<00:07:01.984> and<00:07:02.065> a<00:07:02.081> lack<00:07:02.417> of<00:07:03.043> developing<00:07:03.668> kind<00:07:03.844> of<00:07:04.229> critical<00:07:04.887> faculties<00:07:05.448> for<00:07:05.592> dealing<00:07:05.849> with<00:07:06.009> the<00:07:06.089> world,<00:07:06.410> but<00:07:06.490> also<00:07:07.677> a<00:07:08.641> worldview<00:07:09.122> that's<00:07:09.299> coherent<00:07:09.861> and<00:07:09.941> hangs<00:07:10.182> together.

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And<00:07:10.856> people<00:07:11.145> need<00:07:11.306> that,<00:07:11.724> especially<00:07:12.109> young<00:07:12.350> people.

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You<00:07:12.655> have<00:07:12.815> to<00:07:12.976> think<00:07:13.169> of<00:07:13.233> things<00:07:13.490> for<00:07:13.554> yourself,<00:07:14.180> walk<00:07:14.357> around<00:07:14.614> in<00:07:14.678> them.

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And<00:07:15.063> if<00:07:15.160> you<00:07:15.240> can<00:07:15.336> just<00:07:15.481> go<00:07:15.641> fetch<00:07:15.979> data,<00:07:16.701> I'm<00:07:16.846> not<00:07:17.311> so<00:07:17.488> convinced<00:07:17.889> that<00:07:18.194> easily<00:07:18.435> translates<00:07:18.997> into<00:07:19.254> knowledge<00:07:19.800> or<00:07:19.896> understanding.

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And<00:07:21.261> if<00:07:21.406> you<00:07:21.438> notice<00:07:21.727> that<00:07:21.823> with<00:07:21.968> the<00:07:22.000> schools,<00:07:22.690> when<00:07:22.770> you<00:07:22.947> put<00:07:23.429> this<00:07:23.605> in<00:07:23.734> schools,<00:07:25.018> what<00:07:25.757> changes<00:07:26.223> have<00:07:26.319> people<00:07:26.624> told<00:07:26.881> you,<00:07:27.363> or<00:07:27.764> school<00:07:28.021> administrators<00:07:28.760> said,<00:07:29.418> have<00:07:29.595> happened<00:07:30.076> once<00:07:30.253> their<00:07:30.413> school<00:07:30.783> have<00:07:30.895> kind<00:07:31.056> of<00:07:31.136> become<00:07:31.393> a<00:07:31.537> phone-free<00:07:31.939> environment?

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Oh,<00:07:32.806> it's<00:07:32.982> a<00:07:32.998> radical<00:07:33.447> transformation.

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I<00:07:34.490> mean,<00:07:35.068> it<00:07:35.148> depends<00:07:35.453> what<00:07:35.549> period<00:07:35.790> of<00:07:35.822> time.

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If<00:07:36.351> you<00:07:36.672> go<00:07:36.816> back,<00:07:37.715> again,<00:07:37.875> we've<00:07:38.276> been<00:07:38.517> developing<00:07:38.998> what's<00:07:39.158> become<00:07:39.575> in<00:07:39.720> schools<00:07:40.201> the<00:07:40.297> Yonder<00:07:40.602> program,<00:07:41.180> and<00:07:41.324> that's<00:07:41.549> how<00:07:41.709> we<00:07:41.805> work<00:07:42.046> with<00:07:42.190> districts<00:07:42.688> and<00:07:42.768> now<00:07:42.928> states<00:07:43.393> is,<00:07:44.051> you<00:07:44.131> know,<00:07:44.196> we<00:07:44.276> help<00:07:44.452> with<00:07:44.516> the<00:07:44.677> pre-planning<00:07:45.511> and<00:07:45.575> the<00:07:45.655> policy<00:07:46.153> and<00:07:46.233> the<00:07:46.297> communication<00:07:46.939> with<00:07:47.099> parents<00:07:47.580> and<00:07:47.661> everything,<00:07:48.366> the<00:07:48.479> implementation<00:07:49.185> support<00:07:50.211> and<00:07:50.324> the<00:07:50.452> rollout.

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But<00:07:51.527> the<00:07:51.607> effects<00:07:51.992> are<00:07:52.136> pretty<00:07:52.313> immediate<00:07:52.794> and<00:07:52.938> they're<00:07:53.035> dramatic.

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I<00:07:53.692> mean,<00:07:53.901> after<00:07:54.061> 2<00:07:54.142> to<00:07:54.334> 3<00:07:54.559> weeks,<00:07:55.104> most<00:07:55.313> schools<00:07:55.473> see<00:07:55.842> a,<00:07:56.083> they<00:07:56.179> see<00:07:56.323> a<00:07:56.387> reduction<00:07:56.949> in<00:07:57.045> disciplinary<00:07:57.526> issues<00:07:57.847> and<00:07:57.992> fights<00:07:58.312> by<00:07:58.409> over<00:07:58.585> 50%.

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They<00:07:59.772> see<00:08:00.028> improved<00:08:00.477> academic<00:08:00.958> performance.

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Oh<00:08:02.320> yeah,<00:08:02.656> you<00:08:02.800> hear,<00:08:03.217> you<00:08:03.361> hear<00:08:03.537> kids<00:08:03.858> are,<00:08:04.082> um,<00:08:04.643> are<00:08:04.675> starting<00:08:04.947> to<00:08:04.979> play<00:08:05.140> sports<00:08:05.604> again<00:08:06.181> at<00:08:06.341> lunch.

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I've<00:08:07.207> referred<00:08:07.559> from<00:08:07.703> librarians<00:08:08.184> that<00:08:08.344> more<00:08:08.809> books<00:08:09.049> have<00:08:09.146> been<00:08:09.290> checked<00:08:09.610> out<00:08:09.722> sometimes<00:08:10.203> in<00:08:10.267> the<00:08:10.411> first<00:08:10.668> 3<00:08:10.908> weeks<00:08:11.164> of<00:08:11.213> school<00:08:11.773> than<00:08:11.886> the<00:08:12.014> entire<00:08:12.430> previous<00:08:12.783> school<00:08:12.927> year.

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So<00:08:14.449> again,<00:08:14.770> you<00:08:14.850> have<00:08:15.058> to<00:08:15.090> get<00:08:15.298> in<00:08:15.379> the<00:08:15.411> mind<00:08:15.859> of<00:08:16.036> a<00:08:16.260> digital<00:08:16.516> native<00:08:17.317> who's<00:08:17.478> a<00:08:17.542> teenager<00:08:18.119> going<00:08:18.295> to<00:08:18.359> school,<00:08:18.679> and<00:08:18.760> you've<00:08:18.920> grown<00:08:19.224> up<00:08:19.465> with<00:08:19.577> a<00:08:19.945> computer<00:08:20.362> in<00:08:20.442> your<00:08:20.602> pocket.

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That<00:08:21.307> is<00:08:21.467> a<00:08:21.484> lot<00:08:21.724> of<00:08:22.205> effects.

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Um,<00:08:23.486> but<00:08:23.583> what<00:08:23.727> we<00:08:23.823> found<00:08:24.207> is<00:08:24.288> very<00:08:24.512> encouraging<00:08:25.073> is<00:08:25.233> if<00:08:25.313> you<00:08:25.409> can<00:08:25.569> help<00:08:25.810> create<00:08:26.066> the<00:08:26.130> framework<00:08:26.980> of<00:08:27.360> a<00:08:27.760> device-free,<00:08:28.500> you<00:08:28.580> know,<00:08:28.760> kind<00:08:29.000> of<00:08:29.020> experience<00:08:29.460> during<00:08:29.680> the<00:08:29.860> school<00:08:30.040> day.

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All<00:08:30.880> these<00:08:31.080> things<00:08:31.300> that<00:08:31.480> are<00:08:31.660> really<00:08:31.900> important<00:08:32.320> for<00:08:32.540> young<00:08:32.880> people<00:08:33.500> to<00:08:33.760> develop<00:08:34.200> come<00:08:34.440> back<00:08:34.860> super<00:08:35.180> fast.

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But<00:08:36.200> the<00:08:36.320> elements<00:08:36.560> of<00:08:36.780> fights<00:08:37.060> and<00:08:37.200> things<00:08:37.420> like<00:08:37.680> that<00:08:37.800> that<00:08:37.920> are<00:08:38.080> coordinated<00:08:38.380> through<00:08:38.620> social<00:08:38.960> media<00:08:39.240> is<00:08:39.500> a,<00:08:39.780> is<00:08:39.980> a<00:08:40.280> huge,<00:08:40.700> huge<00:08:41.200> problem.

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And<00:08:41.720> I<00:08:41.880> have<00:08:42.000> a<00:08:42.160> lot<00:08:42.280> of<00:08:42.580> empathy<00:08:43.160> for,<00:08:44.380> for<00:08:44.400> young<00:08:44.580> people<00:08:44.820> dealing<00:08:45.120> with<00:08:45.320> that<00:08:45.580> because<00:08:45.890> it's<00:08:46.440> like<00:08:46.620> living<00:08:46.840> in<00:08:47.040> a<00:08:47.060> hall<00:08:47.280> of<00:08:47.500> mirrors,<00:08:47.940> you<00:08:47.941> know.

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Anything<00:08:48.400> you<00:08:48.600> do,<00:08:48.860> you're<00:08:49.060> afraid<00:08:49.300> of<00:08:49.440> being<00:08:49.560> recorded<00:08:50.000> and<00:08:50.200> posted.

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What<00:08:51.180> does<00:08:51.320> that<00:08:51.540> do?

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Yeah,<00:08:52.560> for<00:08:52.820> sure.

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It's,<00:08:53.280> I<00:08:53.281> mean,<00:08:53.400> it's<00:08:53.540> a<00:08:53.580> whole—<00:08:53.740> can<00:08:53.741> you<00:08:53.840> imagine<00:08:54.320> being<00:08:54.980> a<00:08:55.360> student<00:08:55.860> with<00:08:56.500> cell<00:08:56.880> phones<00:08:56.960> everywhere?

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I<00:08:57.000> couldn't<00:08:57.020> even<00:08:57.040> imagine<00:08:57.060> what<00:08:57.080> that<00:08:58.912> be<00:08:59.056> like,<00:08:59.168> oh,<00:08:59.296> all<00:08:59.553> the,<00:08:59.873> all<00:09:00.018> the<00:09:00.194> ridiculous<00:09:00.739> stuff<00:09:00.980> we<00:09:01.076> did<00:09:01.300> as<00:09:01.477> kids,<00:09:01.797> having<00:09:02.038> to<00:09:02.118> worry<00:09:02.358> about<00:09:02.695> someone<00:09:03.080> peeping<00:09:03.320> over<00:09:03.464> your<00:09:03.561> shoulder,<00:09:04.346> that's<00:09:04.683> no<00:09:04.827> fun<00:09:05.003> for<00:09:05.148> anyone.

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Yeah,<00:09:06.366> it's<00:09:06.606> crazy.

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It<00:09:07.632> adds<00:09:07.809> an<00:09:07.889> element<00:09:08.370> of<00:09:08.594> childhood<00:09:09.091> that,<00:09:09.476> you<00:09:09.508> know,<00:09:09.893> is<00:09:10.213> unnecessary<00:09:11.175> and<00:09:11.576> shouldn't—<00:09:11.897> probably<00:09:12.137> shouldn't<00:09:12.522> exist.

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So<00:09:13.580> I<00:09:13.724> think<00:09:13.820> what<00:09:13.917> you're<00:09:14.061> doing<00:09:14.301> there<00:09:14.462> is<00:09:14.766> an<00:09:14.862> incredible<00:09:15.343> piece<00:09:15.584> of<00:09:15.616> this.

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What<00:09:16.273> does<00:09:16.465> a<00:09:16.530> typical<00:09:17.011> day<00:09:17.267> look<00:09:17.491> like<00:09:17.732> for<00:09:17.828> you<00:09:18.149> as<00:09:18.309> CEO<00:09:18.774> of<00:09:18.854> the<00:09:18.950> company?

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It<00:09:20.024> depends,<00:09:20.553> you<00:09:20.634> know.

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I'm<00:09:21.018> not<00:09:21.499> a<00:09:21.531> super<00:09:21.996> process-oriented<00:09:23.198> person,<00:09:24.224> um,<00:09:24.882> So<00:09:25.026> I<00:09:25.202> like<00:09:25.443> to<00:09:25.523> keep<00:09:25.779> things<00:09:26.068> fairly<00:09:26.340> flexible.

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I<00:09:27.511> also<00:09:27.703> like<00:09:27.911> to<00:09:27.992> travel.

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I<00:09:28.649> like<00:09:28.809> to<00:09:28.953> be<00:09:29.130> out<00:09:29.354> talking<00:09:29.611> to<00:09:29.691> customers<00:09:30.172> and<00:09:30.252> seeing<00:09:30.492> what<00:09:30.653> we<00:09:30.733> do<00:09:30.893> on<00:09:30.973> the<00:09:31.053> ground.

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So<00:09:32.480> on<00:09:32.544> any<00:09:32.720> given<00:09:32.897> week,<00:09:33.137> I<00:09:33.217> might<00:09:33.378> be<00:09:33.522> on<00:09:33.602> the<00:09:33.682> road<00:09:34.580> or<00:09:34.724> I<00:09:34.820> could<00:09:34.981> be<00:09:35.125> in<00:09:35.157> the<00:09:35.285> office.

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I<00:09:36.808> prefer<00:09:37.161> in<00:09:37.449> a<00:09:37.546> way<00:09:38.107> being<00:09:38.331> on<00:09:38.411> the<00:09:38.491> road.

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I've<00:09:38.972> got<00:09:39.052> a<00:09:39.068> family,<00:09:39.469> so<00:09:39.613> I<00:09:39.710> do<00:09:39.806> it<00:09:39.886> a<00:09:39.934> little<00:09:40.174> less<00:09:40.351> than<00:09:40.511> I<00:09:40.655> did<00:09:41.056> 10,<00:09:41.537> 5<00:09:41.858> years<00:09:42.098> ago<00:09:42.435> where<00:09:42.579> I<00:09:42.675> would<00:09:42.835> be<00:09:43.557> basically<00:09:44.038> at<00:09:44.262> all<00:09:44.422> the<00:09:44.519> Yonder<00:09:44.759> shows<00:09:45.064> I<00:09:45.096> could<00:09:45.304> go<00:09:45.480> to<00:09:45.785> and<00:09:46.106> in<00:09:46.186> every<00:09:46.362> school.

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But<00:09:48.270> I<00:09:48.350> think<00:09:48.670> every<00:09:48.831> day<00:09:49.007> for<00:09:49.103> me,<00:09:49.312> they<00:09:49.408> may<00:09:49.568> be<00:09:49.632> the<00:09:49.953> common<00:09:50.273> theme<00:09:50.450> for<00:09:50.594> me<00:09:50.770> is<00:09:51.572> because<00:09:51.893> I<00:09:52.037> don't<00:09:52.213> have<00:09:52.389> a<00:09:52.454> smartphone<00:09:52.838> and<00:09:53.159> I<00:09:53.239> haven't<00:09:53.496> for<00:09:53.656> 10<00:09:53.896> years,<00:09:54.377> I've<00:09:54.457> got<00:09:54.618> a<00:09:54.634> self-imposed<00:09:55.419> kind<00:09:55.595> of<00:09:55.724> limitations,<00:09:56.605> which<00:09:56.670> which<00:09:56.770> helps.

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So,<00:09:58.111> I<00:09:58.170> don't<00:09:58.390> get<00:09:58.630> carried<00:09:58.850> away<00:09:59.150> as<00:09:59.350> much<00:09:59.610> in<00:09:59.870> reading<00:10:01.290> the<00:10:01.530> news<00:10:01.830> and<00:10:02.030> getting<00:10:02.250> swept<00:10:02.570> up<00:10:02.850> into<00:10:03.070> things<00:10:03.350> at<00:10:03.550> the<00:10:03.551> beginning<00:10:03.790> of<00:10:03.970> my<00:10:04.110> day.

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And<00:10:05.050> then,<00:10:05.130> you<00:10:05.270> just<00:10:05.490> kind<00:10:05.790> of<00:10:05.791> go<00:10:05.890> into<00:10:06.250> whatever<00:10:06.510> the<00:10:06.710> day<00:10:06.950> is<00:10:07.150> going<00:10:07.270> to<00:10:07.370> bring<00:10:07.470> you.

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What<00:10:09.210> type<00:10:09.450> of<00:10:09.530> phone<00:10:09.690> do<00:10:09.950> you<00:10:10.110> have?

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Do<00:10:10.470> you<00:10:10.471> have<00:10:10.610> one<00:10:10.770> of<00:10:10.870> those<00:10:10.990> dumb<00:10:11.290> phones<00:10:11.690> or<00:10:12.310> is<00:10:13.030> that<00:10:13.630> what<00:10:13.631> they're<00:10:13.770> called?

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I<00:10:14.090> think<00:10:14.230> they're<00:10:14.390> called<00:10:14.550> dumb<00:10:14.790> phone.

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Yeah.

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I've<00:10:15.630> got<00:10:15.770> just<00:10:16.070> an<00:10:16.270> old-fashioned<00:10:16.810> flip<00:10:17.090> phone.

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I've<00:10:17.570> had<00:10:17.690> several<00:10:17.930> models<00:10:18.370> over<00:10:18.890> the<00:10:19.110> 10<00:10:19.390> years.

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That's<00:10:20.350> been<00:10:20.530> pretty<00:10:20.710> consistent.

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And,<00:10:21.830> do<00:10:21.831> you<00:10:21.910> feel<00:10:22.110> like<00:10:22.310> from<00:10:22.470> a<00:10:22.610> health,<00:10:23.130> mental<00:10:23.430> health,<00:10:23.910> all<00:10:23.990> that<00:10:24.250> type<00:10:24.370> of<00:10:24.770> perspective,<00:10:25.270> you're<00:10:25.450> just<00:10:25.976> have<00:10:26.153> far<00:10:26.378> more<00:10:26.554> clarity<00:10:27.421> and<00:10:28.080> it<00:10:28.112> doesn't<00:10:28.337> matter,<00:10:28.706> like<00:10:28.963> the<00:10:29.188> latest<00:10:29.926> thing<00:10:30.151> that<00:10:30.248> we<00:10:30.408> all<00:10:30.505> should<00:10:30.665> be<00:10:30.874> outraged<00:10:31.291> about,<00:10:31.597> you<00:10:31.629> don't<00:10:31.773> even<00:10:32.094> know<00:10:32.255> about<00:10:32.496> it,<00:10:32.576> so<00:10:33.042> you<00:10:33.122> don't<00:10:33.283> even<00:10:33.443> know<00:10:33.700> whether<00:10:34.005> to<00:10:34.166> be<00:10:34.407> or<00:10:34.503> not<00:10:34.824> be<00:10:35.049> outraged.

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Well,<00:10:36.350> I<00:10:36.366> don't<00:10:36.671> know.

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It's<00:10:36.960> an<00:10:37.056> interesting<00:10:37.554> thing.

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I<00:10:37.859> think<00:10:38.983> all<00:10:39.080> the<00:10:39.224> news<00:10:39.401> trickles<00:10:39.722> down<00:10:39.963> to<00:10:40.059> me<00:10:40.605> by<00:10:40.750> friends<00:10:41.248> and<00:10:41.328> everybody<00:10:42.115> just<00:10:42.356> kind<00:10:42.516> of<00:10:42.596> by<00:10:42.693> osmosis.

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So<00:10:43.480> I<00:10:43.576> get<00:10:43.753> it<00:10:43.817> through<00:10:43.961> a<00:10:43.978> funny<00:10:44.234> filter<00:10:45.021> where<00:10:45.166> people<00:10:45.455> have<00:10:45.567> already<00:10:45.824> digested<00:10:46.450> it.

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And<00:10:46.932> look,<00:10:47.029> I'll<00:10:47.125> still<00:10:47.430> read<00:10:47.591> the<00:10:47.671> news<00:10:48.056> and<00:10:48.137> do<00:10:48.233> that<00:10:48.329> stuff.

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My<00:10:48.859> work<00:10:49.036> just<00:10:49.277> exists<00:10:49.662> around<00:10:49.983> a<00:10:49.999> laptop,<00:10:50.786> or<00:10:51.123> if<00:10:51.204> people<00:10:51.509> want<00:10:51.750> to<00:10:51.862> talk<00:10:52.167> to<00:10:52.248> me<00:10:52.569> about<00:10:52.826> something,<00:10:53.516> on<00:10:53.548> a<00:10:53.612> phone<00:10:53.837> call.

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What<00:10:54.897> I<00:10:54.993> found<00:10:55.363> is<00:10:56.246> it<00:10:56.551> has<00:10:56.744> a<00:10:56.808> funny<00:10:57.049> way<00:10:57.209> of<00:10:57.643> slowing<00:10:58.092> things<00:10:58.333> down<00:10:58.911> but<00:10:59.056> ultimately<00:10:59.409> speeding<00:10:59.795> them<00:10:59.939> up<00:11:00.678> because<00:11:01.577> I<00:11:01.641> can<00:11:01.866> only<00:11:02.524> process—<00:11:02.926> so<00:11:03.311> my<00:11:03.632> assumption<00:11:04.194> is<00:11:04.291> you<00:11:04.435> can<00:11:04.515> only<00:11:04.612> process<00:11:04.997> so<00:11:05.190> many<00:11:05.334> things<00:11:05.575> in<00:11:05.672> a<00:11:05.752> day.

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So<00:11:07.518> if<00:11:07.663> you<00:11:07.807> want<00:11:08.048> to<00:11:08.610> be<00:11:08.931> efficient<00:11:09.268> with<00:11:09.413> your<00:11:09.509> time<00:11:10.296> and<00:11:10.874> push<00:11:11.115> things<00:11:11.356> forward,<00:11:12.143> you've<00:11:12.239> got<00:11:12.400> to<00:11:12.464> be<00:11:12.496> able<00:11:12.640> to<00:11:12.801> digest<00:11:13.170> it<00:11:13.218> and<00:11:13.347> make<00:11:13.507> smart<00:11:13.764> decisions.

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I<00:11:14.648> think<00:11:14.953> one<00:11:15.290> aspect<00:11:15.788> of<00:11:15.916> digital<00:11:16.253> media<00:11:16.510> now<00:11:16.815> is<00:11:16.960> people<00:11:17.136> are<00:11:17.217> so<00:11:17.522> bombarded,<00:11:18.036> so<00:11:18.244> overstimulated,<00:11:19.224> it's<00:11:19.368> very<00:11:19.545> difficult<00:11:20.027> to<00:11:20.091> actually<00:11:20.492> take<00:11:20.685> a<00:11:20.749> ball<00:11:20.990> and<00:11:21.135> move<00:11:21.360> forward.

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When<00:11:22.610> it<00:11:22.674> comes<00:11:22.851> to<00:11:22.915> the<00:11:22.995> news<00:11:23.316> and<00:11:23.396> stuff,<00:11:23.653> I'll,<00:11:23.813> I'll<00:11:24.054> still<00:11:24.358> get<00:11:24.583> it.

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It's<00:11:24.839> just<00:11:25.000> delayed.

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And<00:11:25.786> it<00:11:25.882> generally,<00:11:26.299> if<00:11:26.427> it's<00:11:26.587> not<00:11:26.748> essential,<00:11:27.726> I<00:11:27.758> don't<00:11:28.031> hear<00:11:28.191> about<00:11:28.432> it<00:11:28.592> till<00:11:28.752> a<00:11:28.848> bit<00:11:29.009> later.

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But<00:11:30.212> I<00:11:30.292> think<00:11:30.516> it's,<00:11:30.693> uh,<00:11:31.318> in<00:11:31.414> general<00:11:31.815> is<00:11:31.960> helpful<00:11:32.296> for<00:11:32.393> me<00:11:32.601> because<00:11:33.339> look,<00:11:33.499> with<00:11:33.643> anything<00:11:33.964> going<00:11:34.221> on<00:11:34.381> in<00:11:34.461> the<00:11:34.622> political<00:11:35.087> world,<00:11:35.439> economic<00:11:36.001> world,<00:11:36.546> you<00:11:36.610> know,<00:11:36.786> cultural<00:11:37.252> happenings,<00:11:38.246> I'm<00:11:38.390> interested<00:11:38.791> in<00:11:38.871> the<00:11:38.951> things<00:11:39.192> I<00:11:39.352> can<00:11:39.497> affect<00:11:40.154> and<00:11:40.234> affecting<00:11:40.635> them<00:11:40.956> in<00:11:41.052> the<00:11:41.196> best<00:11:41.421> way<00:11:41.501> I<00:11:41.597> possibly<00:11:42.078> can<00:11:42.415> and<00:11:42.560> trusting<00:11:42.960> that<00:11:43.121> that<00:11:43.281> will<00:11:43.426> have<00:11:43.602> a<00:11:43.666> knock-on<00:11:44.163> benefits<00:11:44.724> to<00:11:44.885> the<00:11:45.029> other<00:11:45.141> things<00:11:45.526> that<00:11:46.328> are<00:11:46.569> tangentially<00:11:47.274> related.

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But<00:11:48.236> all<00:11:48.333> that<00:11:48.477> comes<00:11:48.701> from<00:11:48.878> you<00:11:49.118> focusing<00:11:49.696> and<00:11:49.840> choosing<00:11:50.562> your<00:11:50.658> path<00:11:50.978> a<00:11:51.043> little<00:11:51.219> bit.

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Otherwise,<00:11:52.341> people<00:11:52.662> can<00:11:52.806> become,<00:11:53.143> I<00:11:53.287> think,<00:11:53.945> a<00:11:54.025> bit<00:11:54.121> of<00:11:54.250> a<00:11:54.330> river<00:11:54.506> without<00:11:54.891> banks.

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And<00:11:56.046> if<00:11:56.174> you<00:11:56.270> start<00:11:56.575> your<00:11:56.671> day<00:11:57.056> inhaling<00:11:57.617> a<00:11:57.633> lot<00:11:57.857> of<00:11:57.938> social<00:11:58.274> media,<00:11:59.317> the<00:11:59.413> news,<00:11:59.862> it<00:11:59.942> has<00:12:00.118> that<00:12:00.215> effect,<00:12:00.616> an<00:12:00.824> atomizing<00:12:01.321> effect.

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I<00:12:01.802> think<00:12:02.059> it<00:12:02.123> solicits<00:12:02.588> your<00:12:02.748> attention<00:12:03.181> in<00:12:03.406> endless<00:12:03.710> directions.

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And<00:12:04.352> that<00:12:05.234> ultimately<00:12:05.651> to<00:12:05.811> me<00:12:05.971> is<00:12:06.132> it<00:12:06.532> can<00:12:06.645> be<00:12:06.773> a<00:12:06.837> bit<00:12:07.014> counterproductive,<00:12:07.976> even<00:12:08.136> if<00:12:08.280> it's<00:12:08.376> well-intentioned.

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What<00:12:10.204> do<00:12:10.285> you<00:12:10.445> read<00:12:11.183> and<00:12:11.327> what<00:12:11.567> reading<00:12:11.744> recommendations<00:12:12.449> would<00:12:12.546> you<00:12:12.626> have<00:12:12.850> for<00:12:13.011> us?

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I<00:12:13.732> read<00:12:13.989> a<00:12:14.069> lot<00:12:14.309> of<00:12:14.390> different<00:12:14.646> stuff.

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I<00:12:16.154> read<00:12:16.395> a<00:12:16.411> lot<00:12:16.700> of<00:12:17.695> philosophy<00:12:18.336> still.

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I<00:12:18.882> read<00:12:19.026> a<00:12:19.058> lot<00:12:19.203> of<00:12:19.444> mythology.

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I<00:12:20.984> read<00:12:21.096> a<00:12:21.128> lot<00:12:21.273> of<00:12:21.353> fiction.

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So<00:12:22.653> like<00:12:22.877> right<00:12:22.974> now,<00:12:23.616> what<00:12:23.664> was<00:12:23.776> I<00:12:23.856> reading?

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Bernal<00:12:25.060> Díaz's<00:12:25.798> account<00:12:26.199> of<00:12:26.568> the<00:12:26.648> conquest<00:12:27.146> of<00:12:27.178> New<00:12:27.306> Spain.

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I<00:12:28.510> just<00:12:28.734> read<00:12:28.895> recently<00:12:30.419> H.<00:12:30.596> Rider<00:12:31.302> Haggard,<00:12:33.965> King<00:12:34.206> Solomon's<00:12:34.671> Mines.

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Just<00:12:36.035> a<00:12:36.051> smattering<00:12:36.452> of<00:12:36.549> stuff.

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To<00:12:37.175> me,<00:12:37.961> the<00:12:37.993> stuff<00:12:38.234> I<00:12:38.362> generally<00:12:38.779> read<00:12:38.940> at<00:12:39.036> the<00:12:39.164> end<00:12:39.244> of<00:12:39.277> the<00:12:39.341> night<00:12:39.597> is<00:12:39.726> to<00:12:40.063> take<00:12:40.287> me<00:12:40.384> away<00:12:40.705> mentally<00:12:41.106> somewhere<00:12:41.571> else<00:12:41.988> and<00:12:42.053> leave<00:12:42.229> the<00:12:42.373> day<00:12:42.470> behind.

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You<00:12:43.560> know,<00:12:43.760> I<00:12:43.840> don't<00:12:44.000> read<00:12:44.240> business<00:12:44.480> books<00:12:44.780> and<00:12:44.900> stuff<00:12:45.100> like<00:12:45.300> that<00:12:45.460> because<00:12:45.580> that's<00:12:45.820> just<00:12:45.960> a<00:12:46.140> continuation<00:12:46.760> of<00:12:47.040> work.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I<00:12:49.140> don't<00:12:49.280> read<00:12:49.420> a<00:12:49.560> lot<00:12:49.620> of<00:12:49.760> business<00:12:49.960> books<00:12:50.260> either.

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I've<00:12:51.100> never<00:12:51.240> really<00:12:51.560> found<00:12:52.020> the<00:12:52.660> appeal,<00:12:53.320> to<00:12:53.360> be<00:12:53.500> honest<00:12:53.740> with<00:12:53.880> you,<00:12:53.960> which<00:12:54.060> is<00:12:54.220> kind<00:12:54.280> of<00:12:54.380> weird.

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It's<00:12:55.020> like<00:12:55.120> the<00:12:55.320> person<00:12:55.760> who<00:12:55.940> runs<00:12:56.100> CEO.com.

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Yeah.

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I'm<00:12:57.280> not<00:12:57.440> like<00:12:57.680> a<00:12:57.840> big<00:12:58.180> business<00:12:58.880> book<00:12:59.180> guy.

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How<00:13:00.520> are<00:13:00.640> you<00:13:00.780> feeling<00:13:01.040> about<00:13:01.240> this<00:13:01.540> year<00:13:02.120> economically<00:13:02.780> from<00:13:03.140> your<00:13:03.380> business<00:13:03.580> perspective,<00:13:04.460> just<00:13:04.620> generally?

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And<00:13:06.300> what<00:13:06.400> is<00:13:06.600> it<00:13:06.840> like<00:13:07.120> to<00:13:07.520> sell<00:13:07.940> into<00:13:08.220> schools?

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Is<00:13:08.800> that<00:13:08.980> kind<00:13:09.140> of<00:13:09.200> like<00:13:09.320> a<00:13:09.520> longer<00:13:09.780> process<00:13:10.360> time,<00:13:11.080> a<00:13:11.320> longer<00:13:12.908> kind<00:13:13.069> of<00:13:13.149> close<00:13:13.727> rate?

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Like,<00:13:14.128> how<00:13:14.208> does,<00:13:14.385> how<00:13:14.529> does<00:13:14.625> that<00:13:14.834> all<00:13:14.995> work?

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Look,<00:13:16.022> we're<00:13:16.134> feeling<00:13:16.455> very<00:13:16.696> good<00:13:16.921> about,<00:13:17.595> about<00:13:17.819> the<00:13:17.884> year.

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We're<00:13:18.285> growing<00:13:18.622> very<00:13:18.847> quickly<00:13:19.087> as<00:13:19.248> a<00:13:19.264> company.

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Um,<00:13:20.869> we<00:13:20.949> have<00:13:21.045> a<00:13:21.061> large<00:13:21.366> international<00:13:21.976> presence<00:13:22.410> as<00:13:22.538> well.

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And<00:13:23.758> I<00:13:23.854> think,<00:13:24.159> um,<00:13:24.721> for<00:13:24.817> so<00:13:24.994> many<00:13:25.186> years<00:13:25.668> our<00:13:25.844> team,<00:13:26.165> our<00:13:26.310> company<00:13:26.631> has<00:13:26.727> been<00:13:26.888> out<00:13:27.048> talking<00:13:27.449> to<00:13:27.594> people,<00:13:28.091> especially<00:13:28.477> in<00:13:28.557> the<00:13:28.653> education<00:13:29.119> world,<00:13:29.295> about<00:13:29.536> the<00:13:29.616> benefits<00:13:30.082> of<00:13:30.114> a<00:13:30.178> phone-free<00:13:30.515> school.

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But<00:13:31.606> until<00:13:31.927> maybe<00:13:32.505> pre,<00:13:32.746> you<00:13:32.826> know,<00:13:33.211> just<00:13:33.532> pre-COVID<00:13:34.110> and<00:13:34.190> post-COVID,<00:13:34.897> I<00:13:34.993> think<00:13:35.539> we're<00:13:35.715> kind<00:13:35.956> of<00:13:36.020> out<00:13:36.052> evangelizing.

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We're<00:13:36.951> saying,<00:13:37.224> hey,<00:13:38.071> If<00:13:38.091> you<00:13:38.187> thought<00:13:38.348> about<00:13:38.540> a<00:13:38.588> phone-free<00:13:38.926> school,<00:13:39.471> all<00:13:39.584> these<00:13:39.728> different<00:13:40.049> things<00:13:40.354> it<00:13:40.435> can<00:13:40.595> do<00:13:40.756> for<00:13:40.836> you,<00:13:41.575> and<00:13:41.655> people<00:13:41.864> were<00:13:41.960> at<00:13:42.040> different<00:13:42.281> phases<00:13:42.763> of<00:13:42.859> understanding,<00:13:43.582> I<00:13:43.662> think,<00:13:43.839> from<00:13:44.288> educators<00:13:44.963> to<00:13:45.332> parents<00:13:45.910> to<00:13:46.006> students<00:13:46.408> themselves.

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Post-COVID,<00:13:48.559> that<00:13:48.736> radically<00:13:49.121> changed<00:13:49.683> where<00:13:50.229> I<00:13:50.309> think<00:13:50.470> people<00:13:50.711> came<00:13:50.951> out<00:13:51.128> of<00:13:51.192> COVID<00:13:51.770> and<00:13:51.995> a<00:13:52.011> lot<00:13:52.091> of<00:13:52.172> parents<00:13:52.573> in<00:13:52.653> particular<00:13:53.119> had<00:13:53.279> seen<00:13:53.617> what<00:13:53.841> online<00:13:54.179> learning<00:13:54.484> was<00:13:54.708> and<00:13:54.885> what<00:13:55.142> it<00:13:55.303> meant<00:13:55.543> to<00:13:55.688> be<00:13:55.864> behind<00:13:56.186> a<00:13:56.202> screen<00:13:56.523> that<00:13:56.731> much.

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And<00:13:57.855> they're<00:13:57.936> starting<00:13:58.177> to<00:13:58.257> ask<00:13:58.417> questions<00:13:58.819> going,<00:13:58.995> whoa,<00:13:59.236> this<00:13:59.477> is<00:13:59.702> a—<00:14:00.681> this<00:14:00.858> is—<00:14:01.147> I<00:14:01.179> didn't<00:14:01.388> realize<00:14:01.725> this<00:14:01.885> was<00:14:02.030> happening,<00:14:02.528> or<00:14:02.608> what<00:14:02.768> are<00:14:02.849> the<00:14:02.993> developmental<00:14:03.507> effects<00:14:03.876> this<00:14:04.037> is<00:14:04.133> going<00:14:04.262> to<00:14:04.294> have?

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So<00:14:05.498> as<00:14:05.578> a<00:14:05.659> company,<00:14:06.012> our<00:14:06.686> our,<00:14:07.007> uh,<00:14:07.248> our<00:14:07.906> role<00:14:08.067> became<00:14:08.388> pretty<00:14:08.612> different.

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We<00:14:09.190> weren't<00:14:09.913> any<00:14:10.025> longer—<00:14:10.378> we<00:14:10.474> weren't<00:14:10.876> out<00:14:11.116> evangelizing<00:14:11.759> a<00:14:11.823> phone-free<00:14:12.160> school.

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People<00:14:13.139> were<00:14:13.203> going,<00:14:13.508> how<00:14:13.685> does<00:14:13.845> this<00:14:14.006> work?

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And<00:14:14.584> so<00:14:14.792> our<00:14:14.889> job<00:14:15.130> became<00:14:15.531> going,<00:14:15.707> hey,<00:14:15.932> well,<00:14:16.237> we've<00:14:16.333> been<00:14:16.478> doing<00:14:16.719> it<00:14:16.799> for<00:14:16.959> 10<00:14:17.200> years,<00:14:17.457> we<00:14:17.537> can<00:14:17.698> help<00:14:17.939> walk<00:14:18.179> you<00:14:18.260> through<00:14:18.565> how<00:14:18.661> to<00:14:18.725> make<00:14:18.902> this<00:14:19.078> effective,<00:14:19.624> because<00:14:19.961> it's,<00:14:20.828> it's<00:14:20.989> a<00:14:21.005> little<00:14:21.213> more<00:14:21.390> involved<00:14:21.791> than<00:14:21.936> it<00:14:22.032> might<00:14:22.209> sound<00:14:22.530> at<00:14:22.610> first<00:14:22.915> blush.

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But<00:14:23.750> now<00:14:24.279> there's<00:14:24.520> tons<00:14:24.761> of<00:14:24.825> legislative<00:14:25.387> movement<00:14:25.660> around<00:14:25.884> the<00:14:25.965> country<00:14:26.350> behind<00:14:26.607> the<00:14:26.703> issue,<00:14:27.008> which<00:14:27.233> is<00:14:27.634> super<00:14:27.891> exciting.

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And,<00:14:28.918> uh,<00:14:29.560> you<00:14:29.641> know,<00:14:29.978> most<00:14:30.235> importantly<00:14:30.652> to<00:14:30.700> me,<00:14:30.941> what<00:14:31.085> our<00:14:31.246> growth<00:14:31.503> represents<00:14:32.065> is<00:14:32.161> that<00:14:32.787> we're<00:14:32.931> giving<00:14:33.188> more<00:14:33.429> kids<00:14:34.376> a<00:14:34.392> framework<00:14:34.873> for<00:14:35.017> how<00:14:35.113> to<00:14:35.209> relate<00:14:35.578> to<00:14:36.315> the<00:14:36.459> online<00:14:36.716> world,<00:14:37.277> to<00:14:37.373> the<00:14:37.501> experience<00:14:38.142> of<00:14:38.239> it.

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Because<00:14:38.767> remember,<00:14:39.120> if<00:14:39.200> you're<00:14:39.344> a<00:14:39.441> digital<00:14:39.761> native<00:14:40.130> and<00:14:40.226> you<00:14:40.322> grew<00:14:40.627> up<00:14:40.787> with<00:14:40.899> a<00:14:40.963> smartphone<00:14:41.524> in<00:14:41.620> your<00:14:41.765> pocket,<00:14:42.406> you<00:14:42.550> don't<00:14:42.726> necessarily<00:14:43.351> have<00:14:43.592> that<00:14:43.752> understanding<00:14:44.265> of<00:14:44.393> the<00:14:44.489> difference<00:14:44.890> between<00:14:45.211> the<00:14:45.291> two.

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And<00:14:45.675> that's<00:14:45.932> my<00:14:46.028> fundamental<00:14:46.557> goal,<00:14:46.733> is<00:14:46.878> not<00:14:47.054> to<00:14:47.150> tell<00:14:47.679> kids<00:14:47.919> what<00:14:48.080> to<00:14:48.176> do,<00:14:48.416> or<00:14:48.496> young<00:14:48.801> people,<00:14:49.121> or<00:14:49.218> people<00:14:49.458> in<00:14:49.602> general.

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It's<00:14:50.259> just<00:14:50.420> to<00:14:50.484> open<00:14:50.740> a<00:14:50.820> window<00:14:51.221> to<00:14:51.365> say,<00:14:51.606> hey,<00:14:51.766> there<00:14:51.942> is<00:14:52.087> another<00:14:52.343> path<00:14:52.664> here,<00:14:53.305> you<00:14:53.385> know,<00:14:54.250> and,<00:14:54.443> uh,<00:14:55.132> and<00:14:55.212> to<00:14:55.244> show<00:14:55.533> them<00:14:55.709> the<00:14:55.789> difference.

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So<00:14:56.751> for,<00:14:57.312> you<00:14:57.408> know,<00:14:57.472> my<00:14:57.632> feeling<00:14:57.937> has<00:14:58.113> been<00:14:58.273> that<00:14:58.754> for<00:14:58.850> a<00:14:58.914> young<00:14:59.155> person<00:14:59.379> who<00:14:59.459> goes<00:14:59.636> to<00:14:59.716> school<00:15:00.020> for<00:15:00.117> 4<00:15:00.341> years<00:15:00.597> where<00:15:00.678> Yonder's<00:15:01.078> being<00:15:01.319> used<00:15:01.559> and<00:15:01.623> has<00:15:01.799> a<00:15:01.864> phone-free<00:15:02.280> education,<00:15:03.082> their<00:15:03.243> childhood<00:15:03.628> and<00:15:03.789> upbringing<00:15:04.110> is<00:15:04.207> going<00:15:04.319> to<00:15:04.367> be<00:15:04.528> pretty<00:15:04.769> different<00:15:05.235> from<00:15:05.412> a<00:15:05.476> peer<00:15:05.813> who<00:15:05.894> did<00:15:06.054> not.

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Yeah,<00:15:07.227> there's<00:15:07.484> absolutely<00:15:07.757> no<00:15:07.966> question<00:15:08.368> about<00:15:08.529> that.

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Uh,<00:15:09.428> finally,<00:15:09.894> we<00:15:10.071> end<00:15:10.216> every<00:15:10.392> interview<00:15:10.698> with<00:15:10.810> the<00:15:10.890> same<00:15:11.115> question,<00:15:11.501> and<00:15:11.597> that<00:15:11.758> is,<00:15:11.903> at<00:15:11.983> CEO.com,<00:15:12.722> we<00:15:12.883> believe<00:15:13.124> the<00:15:13.204> chances<00:15:13.606> one<00:15:13.847> gives<00:15:14.329> is<00:15:14.393> just<00:15:14.650> as<00:15:14.698> important<00:15:14.907> as<00:15:14.971> the<00:15:15.116> chances<00:15:15.453> one<00:15:15.614> takes.

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When<00:15:16.739> you<00:15:16.964> hear<00:15:17.124> that,<00:15:17.301> who<00:15:17.462> gave<00:15:17.622> you<00:15:17.751> a<00:15:17.783> chance<00:15:18.104> to<00:15:18.185> get<00:15:18.265> you<00:15:18.362> to<00:15:18.490> where<00:15:18.667> you<00:15:18.828> are<00:15:18.924> today?

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Oh,<00:15:20.257> I've<00:15:20.418> had<00:15:20.579> a<00:15:20.595> lot<00:15:20.772> of<00:15:20.836> people,<00:15:21.703> you<00:15:21.800> know,<00:15:22.202> take—<00:15:22.603> place<00:15:22.925> bets<00:15:23.230> on<00:15:23.310> me<00:15:23.487> that<00:15:23.631> have<00:15:23.728> been,<00:15:24.676> uh,<00:15:24.869> super<00:15:25.319> helpful<00:15:25.672> in<00:15:25.736> my<00:15:25.897> life.

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Um,<00:15:27.022> you<00:15:27.102> know,<00:15:27.247> one<00:15:27.407> of<00:15:27.504> the<00:15:27.664> ear—<00:15:28.050> I<00:15:28.066> had,<00:15:28.532> you<00:15:28.628> know,<00:15:28.789> a<00:15:28.805> few<00:15:29.656> early<00:15:29.816> investors<00:15:30.457> who<00:15:31.115> took<00:15:31.291> a<00:15:31.355> chance<00:15:31.900> on<00:15:32.718> an<00:15:32.798> idea<00:15:33.118> that<00:15:33.295> seemed<00:15:33.984> absolutely<00:15:34.481> ludicrous<00:15:34.946> at<00:15:35.042> the<00:15:35.122> time,<00:15:35.507> totally<00:15:35.844> at<00:15:35.988> cross<00:15:36.244> purposes<00:15:36.870> with<00:15:38.024> the<00:15:38.168> dominant<00:15:38.729> kind<00:15:38.953> of<00:15:39.034> cultural<00:15:39.434> zeitgeist<00:15:39.995> back<00:15:40.188> then.

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And<00:15:40.877> then<00:15:41.118> I<00:15:41.198> would<00:15:41.278> say<00:15:41.518> maybe<00:15:41.775> the<00:15:41.855> most<00:15:42.095> important<00:15:42.416> for<00:15:42.560> Yonder's<00:15:43.522> history<00:15:43.939> and<00:15:44.484> was<00:15:44.580> probably<00:15:44.965> when<00:15:45.045> we<00:15:45.077> started<00:15:45.382> working<00:15:45.702> with<00:15:45.927> Dave<00:15:46.087> Chappelle<00:15:46.664> in<00:15:46.744> around<00:15:47.001> 2015,<00:15:47.786> and<00:15:47.930> he<00:15:47.962> had<00:15:48.107> just<00:15:48.267> kind<00:15:48.491> of<00:15:48.572> come<00:15:48.668> back<00:15:48.908> on<00:15:48.972> the<00:15:49.052> scene.

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And<00:15:50.655> when<00:15:50.752> I<00:15:50.832> think<00:15:51.072> about<00:15:51.313> that,<00:15:51.473> that<00:15:51.617> was<00:15:51.713> just<00:15:51.954> me<00:15:53.076> with<00:15:53.300> maybe<00:15:53.862> at<00:15:53.958> that<00:15:54.118> point<00:15:54.679> 5,000<00:15:55.545> pouches<00:15:55.945> total<00:15:56.362> that<00:15:56.506> I<00:15:56.523> had<00:15:56.683> scrounged<00:15:57.308> up.

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And<00:15:58.029> I,<00:15:58.109> when<00:15:58.270> I<00:15:58.302> met<00:15:58.526> his<00:15:58.687> team,<00:15:58.927> I<00:15:59.248> think<00:15:59.408> they<00:15:59.632> knew<00:15:59.809> where<00:16:00.033> I<00:16:00.129> was.

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They<00:16:00.674> knew<00:16:00.771> where<00:16:00.931> the<00:16:01.011> company<00:16:01.300> company<00:16:01.476> was<00:16:01.733> at<00:16:01.813> that<00:16:02.038> point,<00:16:02.856> but<00:16:03.001> they<00:16:03.177> liked<00:16:03.418> something<00:16:03.755> about<00:16:04.124> it.

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They're<00:16:04.542> willing<00:16:04.847> to<00:16:04.943> take<00:16:05.168> a<00:16:05.184> chance.

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I<00:16:06.404> flew<00:16:06.773> out<00:16:06.933> there<00:16:07.591> with<00:16:07.752> a<00:16:07.816> friend<00:16:07.993> and<00:16:08.297> started<00:16:08.635> doing<00:16:08.859> those<00:16:09.036> early<00:16:09.196> shows,<00:16:09.614> and<00:16:09.742> that<00:16:09.919> started<00:16:10.304> the<00:16:10.384> whole<00:16:10.625> process<00:16:11.122> in<00:16:11.203> motion<00:16:11.845> of<00:16:11.989> us<00:16:12.230> getting<00:16:12.406> some<00:16:12.583> notoriety<00:16:13.273> and<00:16:13.369> me<00:16:13.530> learning<00:16:13.915> how<00:16:14.011> to<00:16:14.172> do<00:16:14.397> it<00:16:14.477> and<00:16:15.360> being<00:16:15.536> launched<00:16:15.937> into<00:16:16.178> the<00:16:16.339> entertainment<00:16:16.740> world<00:16:17.141> that<00:16:17.382> led<00:16:17.607> to<00:16:17.687> all<00:16:17.847> these<00:16:18.008> other<00:16:18.185> things.

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So<00:16:19.565> it<00:16:19.741> takes<00:16:19.950> people<00:16:20.223> like<00:16:20.432> that.

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You<00:16:20.753> have<00:16:20.993> to<00:16:21.074> come<00:16:21.234> across<00:16:21.635> people<00:16:21.924> like<00:16:22.101> that.

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And<00:16:22.855> I've<00:16:22.935> seen<00:16:23.160> the<00:16:23.224> same<00:16:23.481> thing<00:16:23.642> in<00:16:23.674> the<00:16:23.722> school<00:16:24.027> world.

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Um,<00:16:25.664> I've<00:16:25.728> always<00:16:26.033> tried<00:16:26.210> to<00:16:26.290> leave<00:16:26.515> the<00:16:26.595> door<00:16:26.836> open<00:16:27.093> for<00:16:27.269> serendipity<00:16:28.216> a<00:16:28.280> little<00:16:28.457> bit<00:16:28.682> when<00:16:28.778> you<00:16:28.858> meet<00:16:29.099> people<00:16:29.500> and<00:16:29.580> when<00:16:30.046> you<00:16:30.094> know,<00:16:30.158> let<00:16:30.447> good<00:16:30.623> things<00:16:30.927> kind<00:16:31.008> of<00:16:31.104> come<00:16:31.280> in.

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And<00:16:32.643> at<00:16:33.252> funny<00:16:33.509> inflection<00:16:33.990> points,<00:16:34.294> you<00:16:34.391> meet<00:16:34.551> people<00:16:34.871> who<00:16:35.336> do<00:16:35.497> that<00:16:35.673> for<00:16:35.914> you<00:16:36.074> and<00:16:36.154> you<00:16:36.186> just<00:16:36.379> have<00:16:36.539> to<00:16:36.635> be<00:16:36.779> kind<00:16:36.956> of<00:16:37.180> ready<00:16:38.158> to<00:16:38.318> pick<00:16:38.495> up<00:16:38.639> the<00:16:38.719> ball<00:16:39.024> when<00:16:39.120> it<00:16:39.184> drops.

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Yeah.

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The<00:16:40.563> first<00:16:40.787> time<00:16:40.948> I<00:16:41.028> heard<00:16:41.188> about<00:16:41.429> these<00:16:41.637> things<00:16:41.846> was<00:16:42.102> at<00:16:42.182> a<00:16:42.246> Chappelle<00:16:42.647> show.

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I<00:16:43.048> was<00:16:43.273> like,<00:16:43.401> oh<00:16:43.433> yeah,<00:16:43.850> yeah,<00:16:44.635> he<00:16:44.731> definitely<00:16:45.036> popularized<00:16:45.758> these.

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Yeah,<00:16:46.655> he<00:16:46.784> was<00:16:46.960> great.

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And<00:16:47.281> he<00:16:47.361> was<00:16:47.521> the<00:16:47.601> first<00:16:47.858> artist<00:16:48.162> I<00:16:48.195> spoke<00:16:48.499> with<00:16:48.900> who<00:16:49.124> understood<00:16:49.621> the<00:16:49.686> mission<00:16:50.022> of<00:16:50.086> the<00:16:50.167> company,<00:16:50.808> which<00:16:50.968> for<00:16:51.048> me,<00:16:51.449> like<00:16:51.690> the<00:16:51.786> business,<00:16:52.908> the<00:16:52.988> business<00:16:53.373> is<00:16:53.549> important.

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I'm<00:16:55.537> not<00:16:55.714> super<00:16:55.954> interested<00:16:56.419> in<00:16:56.499> business<00:16:56.932> and<00:16:57.381> I<00:16:57.477> never<00:16:57.718> have<00:16:57.814> been.

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So<00:16:58.600> like,<00:16:59.065> you<00:16:59.177> know,<00:16:59.626> Learning<00:17:00.187> about<00:17:00.428> business,<00:17:00.764> being<00:17:01.005> an<00:17:01.053> executive<00:17:01.630> is<00:17:02.272> interesting<00:17:02.753> insofar<00:17:03.234> as<00:17:03.410> it's<00:17:03.651> part<00:17:03.811> of<00:17:03.843> the<00:17:03.956> vehicle<00:17:04.356> for<00:17:04.469> the<00:17:04.597> cultural<00:17:04.998> change<00:17:05.335> I'm<00:17:05.559> interested<00:17:05.976> in<00:17:06.136> facilitating,<00:17:07.580> but<00:17:07.692> it's<00:17:07.836> not<00:17:08.125> the<00:17:08.221> be-all<00:17:08.462> end-all<00:17:08.782> for<00:17:08.879> me.

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So<00:17:09.825> when<00:17:09.905> I<00:17:09.985> talked<00:17:10.290> to<00:17:10.370> an<00:17:10.450> artist<00:17:10.771> like<00:17:11.252> him<00:17:12.006> and<00:17:12.070> kind<00:17:12.214> of<00:17:12.246> laid<00:17:12.471> out<00:17:12.567> my<00:17:12.872> philosophical<00:17:13.497> view<00:17:13.738> of<00:17:13.834> the<00:17:13.914> role<00:17:14.139> of<00:17:14.219> technology<00:17:14.780> in<00:17:14.860> society,<00:17:15.919> the<00:17:16.063> positive<00:17:16.480> things<00:17:16.720> it<00:17:16.801> can<00:17:16.961> do,<00:17:17.586> the<00:17:17.763> issue<00:17:18.148> we're<00:17:18.308> facing,<00:17:19.110> you<00:17:19.447> know,<00:17:19.832> at<00:17:19.944> the<00:17:20.024> moment,<00:17:21.435> and<00:17:21.756> what<00:17:21.852> could<00:17:21.964> be<00:17:22.093> done<00:17:22.333> about<00:17:22.574> it,<00:17:23.279> and<00:17:23.327> the<00:17:23.440> artist's<00:17:23.776> role,<00:17:24.322> very<00:17:24.498> important<00:17:24.899> role<00:17:25.124> in<00:17:25.204> all<00:17:25.300> that,<00:17:25.990> He<00:17:26.130> was<00:17:26.210> the<00:17:26.330> first<00:17:26.470> one,<00:17:26.770> I<00:17:26.771> think,<00:17:26.970> who<00:17:27.090> grasped<00:17:27.370> it<00:17:27.670> and<00:17:27.750> was<00:17:27.910> like,<00:17:28.270> yeah,<00:17:28.310> I<00:17:28.570> get<00:17:28.650> that.

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I'm<00:17:29.091> behind<00:17:29.350> that.

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And<00:17:30.090> understood<00:17:30.470> that<00:17:31.350> whether<00:17:31.690> it's<00:17:31.930> related<00:17:32.210> to<00:17:32.410> privacy<00:17:32.990> or<00:17:33.270> all<00:17:33.490> these<00:17:33.630> other<00:17:33.870> things,<00:17:35.430> you<00:17:35.450> know,<00:17:35.590> if<00:17:35.770> people<00:17:35.910> want<00:17:36.150> freedom,<00:17:36.810> if<00:17:36.870> you<00:17:37.010> want<00:17:37.170> freedom<00:17:37.450> to<00:17:37.630> express<00:17:38.010> yourself,<00:17:38.490> to,<00:17:39.090> to<00:17:39.290> be<00:17:39.430> off<00:17:39.590> the<00:17:39.810> grid<00:17:39.870> for<00:17:40.010> a<00:17:40.130> little<00:17:40.230> bit,<00:17:40.410> we<00:17:40.550> have<00:17:40.710> to<00:17:40.810> create<00:17:41.070> those<00:17:41.310> spaces.

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Tech<00:17:42.229> companies<00:17:42.570> aren't<00:17:42.810> going<00:17:42.870> to<00:17:42.970> come<00:17:43.170> and<00:17:43.270> give<00:17:43.370> you<00:17:43.510> that<00:17:43.690> space.

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It<00:17:44.510> is<00:17:44.650> not<00:17:44.870> how<00:17:45.190> capitalism<00:17:45.770> works.

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So<00:17:47.010> you're<00:17:47.110> going<00:17:47.210> to<00:17:47.211> have<00:17:47.230> to<00:17:47.290> go<00:17:47.470> carve<00:17:47.630> those<00:17:47.870> out<00:17:48.070> and<00:17:48.230> defend<00:17:48.510> them<00:17:48.810> and<00:17:48.970> defend<00:17:49.250> what<00:17:49.410> they<00:17:49.550> represent.

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And<00:17:50.970> I<00:17:51.190> think<00:17:51.350> artists<00:17:51.810> being<00:17:52.190> sensitive<00:17:52.650> people,<00:17:52.970> they<00:17:53.210> intuitively<00:17:53.590> understand<00:17:54.090> that.

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And<00:17:54.590> I<00:17:54.730> think<00:17:54.890> people<00:17:55.230> at<00:17:55.430> a<00:17:55.530> deeper<00:17:55.770> level,<00:17:55.970> when<00:17:55.990> they<00:17:56.010> go<00:17:56.030> to<00:17:56.050> shows,<00:17:56.070> you<00:17:56.090> know,<00:17:56.110> and<00:17:56.130> you're<00:17:57.890> swept<00:17:58.146> up<00:17:58.258> into<00:17:58.402> the<00:17:58.482> mood<00:17:58.723> of<00:17:58.867> being<00:17:59.043> at<00:17:59.123> a<00:17:59.139> show<00:17:59.444> and<00:17:59.524> no<00:17:59.684> one's<00:18:00.341> distracted,<00:18:01.030> no<00:18:01.110> one's<00:18:01.286> filming<00:18:01.751> anyone.

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That's<00:18:02.873> what<00:18:03.209> we<00:18:03.289> go<00:18:03.449> to<00:18:03.546> live<00:18:03.850> events<00:18:04.154> for.

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And<00:18:04.859> that's<00:18:05.068> important<00:18:05.613> because<00:18:05.805> that<00:18:05.997> cuts<00:18:06.253> across<00:18:06.638> all<00:18:06.830> these<00:18:07.039> cultural,<00:18:07.535> economic,<00:18:08.160> political<00:18:08.577> divides.

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And<00:18:09.698> it<00:18:09.779> reminds<00:18:10.163> people<00:18:10.484> like,<00:18:11.349> hey,<00:18:12.086> just,<00:18:12.743> we're<00:18:12.903> all<00:18:13.063> people<00:18:13.624> and<00:18:13.704> we're<00:18:13.864> here<00:18:14.345> enjoying<00:18:14.682> this<00:18:14.890> moment.

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And<00:18:15.274> that<00:18:15.387> is<00:18:15.691> extremely<00:18:16.348> beneficial<00:18:16.925> effect<00:18:17.614> on<00:18:17.646> society,<00:18:18.175> I<00:18:18.271> believe,<00:18:18.896> better<00:18:19.216> than<00:18:19.456> anybody<00:18:19.857> can<00:18:19.969> write<00:18:20.129> in<00:18:20.274> any<00:18:20.498> op-ed,<00:18:21.459> you<00:18:21.539> know,<00:18:21.796> because<00:18:22.020> it<00:18:22.116> hits<00:18:22.421> on<00:18:22.501> the<00:18:22.533> level<00:18:22.917> of<00:18:23.078> kind<00:18:23.254> of,<00:18:23.799> it<00:18:23.879> hits<00:18:24.039> you<00:18:24.135> more<00:18:24.279> in<00:18:24.359> the<00:18:24.439> chest<00:18:24.920> than<00:18:25.080> just<00:18:25.305> in<00:18:25.385> the<00:18:25.481> brain.

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No,<00:18:26.466> I<00:18:26.612> totally<00:18:26.968> agree.

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Graham,<00:18:27.664> thank<00:18:27.842> you<00:18:27.922> so<00:18:28.100> much<00:18:28.246> for<00:18:28.327> what<00:18:28.489> you<00:18:28.634> do,<00:18:29.039> seriously,<00:18:29.443> in<00:18:29.476> the<00:18:29.605> world,<00:18:30.414> and<00:18:30.511> for<00:18:30.592> coming<00:18:30.835> on<00:18:30.932> the<00:18:31.013> show.

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Uh,<00:18:32.062> you're<00:18:32.127> making<00:18:32.401> a<00:18:32.466> difference<00:18:32.870> in<00:18:33.113> your—<00:18:33.437> your—<00:18:33.825> what<00:18:33.906> you—<00:18:34.164> what<00:18:34.310> you've<00:18:34.488> done<00:18:34.714> and<00:18:34.892> what<00:18:35.054> you've<00:18:35.215> built<00:18:35.604> is,<00:18:36.493> uh,<00:18:36.752> it's<00:18:36.897> life-changing,<00:18:37.480> man.

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You're<00:18:37.949> helping<00:18:38.127> a<00:18:38.207> lot<00:18:38.304> of<00:18:38.369> people.

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Thanks<00:18:39.081> so<00:18:39.113> much.

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Hey,<00:18:40.391> thank<00:18:40.520> you,<00:18:40.617> Clay.

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I<00:18:41.118> appreciate<00:18:41.526> it.

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Thanks,<00:18:42.261> Graham.

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Loving<00:18:55.996> you<00:18:56.323> makes<00:18:56.731> the<00:18:57.073> stars<00:18:57.367> shine<00:18:57.481> brighter.

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Yeah.

```