Lindsay Hadley talks to Clint Betts about her new documentary Uncharitable, how the private sector thinking and strategies could help the foster care system, the complexity of social entrepreneurship, when helping hurts in developing countries, trust equity, and a donor’s responsibility to find good foundations, and why relationships are everything.

Lindsay Hadley is an Executive Producer/Film Maker, Global Social Impact Consultant, Executive Producer of Global Citizen, CSR Strategists, and Convener Model Expert.


Clint Betts

Lindsay Hadley, you are on the CEO.com show. First of all, how does that feel? How does it feel to be on this show?

Lindsay Hadley

It's so awesome. Thanks Clint. I feel like a really big deal right now.

Clint Betts

No, no, you're doing me a huge favor for coming on. And those watching or listening are about to experience someone who is up to something in this world that is meaningful and you're making a huge impact. Why don't we start there with what you're doing, what you do. It's hard actually for me to explain to people what you do other than change the world. So now we get go deep on it.

Lindsay Hadley

You're so sweet. Thanks for the opportunity and to share. It is unique, the career I've had. Essentially, the last 15 years I've been in the social impact sector as a producer and a development director and a consultant. So I have a little boutique firm and I help people with the good they want to do in the world. So it's a one stop shop agency, called Hadley Impact Consulting, and we do everything from fundraising, event production, campaigning, strategy, influencer acquisition, creative work, all of it.

And recently, in the last year, I've been shifting out of consulting completely, not taking on new clients and trying my hand at film production. And so I produced my first film, executive produced a documentary, and now I'm putting together a television show right now in partnership with Angel Studios and the Harmon Brothers, which is super fun. And basically, looking to see what's up next in life. But it's been a great journey. But all of it has had this lens of trying to make a difference, trying to see how we can make the world better, how we can help worthy causes, social entrepreneurship, social impact investing, all that kind of stuff.

Clint Betts

So what does social impact mean to you?

Lindsay Hadley

It's really broad and a buzzword statement, but for me what it really means is how is this actually qualitatively changing the lives of people, whether it's climate change or mental health or poverty or human trafficking or foster kids or whatever it may be. Sometimes, the solutions are for profit endeavors and sometimes they're non-profit endeavors. Sometimes they're partnerships with governments. So oftentimes, we'll play a trusted node across these different sectors because you'll find that private sector and public sector and faith communities often don't speak the same language. And so you need someone bilingual and we come in and put together these really cool strategic partnerships and opportunities and do that. So yeah, it's a broad comment. But for example, I've worked with Coca-Cola in the past around recycling, but I probably wouldn't just sell the sugar water. You know what I mean? In other words, if it's making a difference, I'd love to be a part of it. If it's just straight profit making, I haven't historically done that. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm a big fan of the tools of capitalism. It's just that I have generally chosen some kind of purpose in my work.

Clint Betts

Yeah. Tell us about this documentary. That sounds interesting.

Lindsay Hadley

Oh my gosh, thanks. Yeah, it's called Uncharitable and it's coming out at the beginning of the year. We're doing our first big premier. And Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal's dad, Stephen Gyllenhaal, is the director of our film. And then Ed Norton, the actor many people may know, he's featured in the film along with a lot of luminaries from the nonprofit space, whether it's Scott Harrison from Charity Water or Jason Russell from Invisible Children. We have all these different characters that we interview. And essentially it's based on a very popular TED Talk by a gentleman named Dan Pallotta called, “The Way We Think of Charity is Dead Wrong.” And it's a documentary, it's a 90 minute exploration of his TED Talk.

His TED Talk basically goes into describing the demonization of overhead in the nonprofit sector, in the social goods sector, and how people don't allow the social and non-profit sectors to use the same leverage we use in the private sectors. Things like paying talent, spending money on marketing and creative work to invest in a community of compassion the way you would a community of consumption and then taking risk. All these things that entrepreneurs can use for growth and levering value they can't do.

And so we kind of explore how that's an archaic thought and we should rethink it. And we go into some of the most successful nonprofits in the last decade in our society that we're totally cannibalized and destroyed by this thinking and how we just have a strong case for support that we should maybe start thinking differently about all of it. So I'm excited to get out there in the world and for people to change their thoughts.

Clint Betts

So how did this all come together? You just said a lot of things that are like no one can do. No one can do anything you just said. How did you do that? How did you get Ed Norton? How did you get the Gyllenhaal dad? How did you get the Charity Water guy to come on? Give us the details on how you put this thing together. This is, to me, who you are and what you do. You make things happen that no one else can. Everything you just said, you just kind of nonchalantly just named these huge names in this incredible project. How did you do that, Lindsay?

Lindsay Hadley

You're so kind. Truly, you're giving me way too much credit. What really happened is, and I'm somebody who definitely has a relentless pursuit of trying to make things happen, that I'll give myself credit for and a lot of grit. But dude, some of it is right place, right time, as it always is. But I will say historically, the way that I always try to create value for other people, right? Just like anyone else, just the more value you create, you can bring. So if there's something in it for them.

In this case, Stephen Gyllenhaal and Dan Pallotta were already out to make the film. I actually cold called Dan Pallotta. I got his email from his website after I saw his TEDtalk years ago and I was like, "I think this is amazing. I'd love to help make a film. “And he said, "Funny enough, my friend, Stephen Gyllenhaal," so they were already friends, "wants to make a film and we do need help raising the money."

So I came in and raised I think 95% of the funds as executive producer and helped brought that together. And then they had some great connections. We were able to get Ed Norton because he actually is very passionate about this issue and has talked extensively with Dan about it. He started some of the most successful crowdfunding platforms. And so he's been rethinking innovation in the space of doing good for a long time. And so he was really excited to have an opportunity to talk.

And at the end of the day, it's funny because the CEO of TEDtalk actually says in our documentary, I'm paraphrasing, but something to the extent of Dan's TEDtalk that the film was really largely based on, he said, is the most paradigm shifting talk in the history of Ted's stages. And so this was just an idea as time has come. It's really genuinely an important concept. The analogy I give my students ,because I've been a professor at a university and taught social entrepreneurship, and I always say when I'm explaining this, imagine... I live here in Oahu on the North Shore in Hawaii and there's a big homeless problem here in Hawaii.

And I always say, "Imagine if we did a charity bake sell and we had 0% overhead because I donated all of the ingredients and we all volunteered our time and then we took markers and recycled cardboard boxes and made signs and went out on the street and sold these baked goods and we raised $100 for the homeless community here in Hawaii, versus if I put on a big music festival like stuff I've done in the past and say it costs $5 million but it raised $10 million and it was 50% overhead, which do you think the homeless population would prefer?"

So if you're looking at how effective something is based on the percentage of overhead, that'll utterly betray you. It may not be the right question at all. And at the core of it, people are trying to avoid exploitation, which is a wonderful thing. You don't want to be saying, "I'm helping someone in need," and then lining your own pockets and you're not actually having any kind of material good and you're taking advantage of the generosity of other people. That's what people are afraid of and that's why they question the overhead.

But it actually isn't the right question to ask. The question should be what's the ROI? How much value? What kind of impact is on the other side of the utility of my donation? So if a large percentage goes out, but it grows the pie because marketing and eyeballs and strategies that actually grow, if you paid someone excellent in the private sector, we know this, usually, 5% of your employees bring 95% of the value. That's actually materially true, bringing the most of the money, most of the revenue.

So say you get some incredible development director and they cost twice what you would somebody else, so it's higher percent overhead, but they bring in 10 times the money, this is just a no-brainer, right? You just need to look at it more from a position of value creation. And I think a lot of it comes from archaic thinking that is from our puritan roots that we kind of used to penance for our sin by doing charity, and our profit making tendencies that we're evil, like here's our charity side to make up for that. And it's like, why can't people do really well that are doing good, that are solving major social issues, like foster care? There are some things that the private sector can solve as a social entrepreneurship endeavor. You can come up with recycled—like Cotopaxi, Davis Smith here in Utah. He's come up with, they use recycled materials and there's an environment and there's all these great causes that they're doing. They're selling a product. And sometimes you can come with those hacks.

But when it comes to dealing with the mental illness of veterans or helping foster kids get into permanent families, you can't really monetize that stuff. It's a lot more complicated. So you're going to always need government to come in and government has a certain limit and inefficiency at a certain size. Everyone knows that. And so the nonprofit sector's always going to be a solution to solve this. And if we can let them use the same tools that we know work in business, we'll see so much more value to society. So that's kind of the whole argument. But yeah, I guess to answer your question, how did I do this? Well I didn't do this, it was a group of us so we pulled it together.

But I definitely have just learned, like most entrepreneurs, you just got to ask and you probably get a bunch of no's, but it's worth trying. So it's been an honor to be a part of it.

Clint Betts

You mentioned foster care and how maybe the private sector could help solve that problem. What were you thinking there? That was interesting.

Lindsay Hadley

Well, yeah, I know you and I have talked a lot about the foster care program. I think that in foster care right now, it's further upstream to so many other societal ills that we struggle with when we abandon kids that need permanent loving families. 90% of all human trafficking victims come out of institutional care, foster care and or orphanages around the world. 25% of all foster kids, when they turn 18 and age out of the system, if they're not in a family, will end up homeless on the day they age out. 76% of all prison inmates have spent time in the foster care system. So if you're looking at mental illness, homelessness, crime, sexual exploitation, human trafficking, all of this is further, and generational poverty, is all further upstream to getting kids into permanent families.

Right now, the Annie E. Casey Foundation estimates that it's over $300,000 per child that ages out. Not while you're in the system. When you turn 18 and you age out, taxpayer's liabilities are around$ 300,000 each kid. So they turn 18 and their chances on being a welfare, in prison, having some incident with the police that we're paying for is around $300,000 on average per kid. There are amazing organizations that for $1,000 or a little more than that, a couple thousand dollars can get a kid into a family through really strategic marketing and clever ideas, like making videos of a kid where it shows their personality and high functioning Asperger's they have and they love ponies and they have pigtails and they humanize this little person and then show it into faith communities, which are three times more likely to adopt. We're seeing these kids that have a 0.2% chance of adoption having 50% of them adopted in six months and all them adopted in two years. Just incredible results.

So for a few thousand dollars now, you can avoid hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money. Imagine if businesses would help lend their marketing teams to film those kids and help distribute it and promote it and feature it or giving foster families that choose the incredible generosity to take these kids in. What if you could give your businesses foster family discounts, like half off or whatever for your family to come eat here or do a movie. This would be incredible, if we wrapped around the families that wrapped around these kids. That'd be an amazing thing. So there's all kinds of things we can do, but I think more than anything, just let's let people try to solve these problems using business thinking and tools and strategies that we know work. Like, hire the best people to solve this. Pay them very well because not everybody is willing to sacrifice all of their income when they're super talented.

They'd rather just go make a lot of money in the private sector and then sit on the board and oversee the chump who decided to go into a non-profit making nothing all year. You know what I mean? And I'm saying that because it's been me, I'm talking to myself. I spent my whole career, even though I was bringing in tens of millions of dollars for the charities and clients and I was making never more than $75,000, and I was getting paid 20% more than the next person in the nonprofit. You know what I mean? It's crazy.

Clint Betts

Right.

Lindsay Hadley

In the private sector, you'd have some value, equity. There's nothing like this. You can't take a charity public, you can't access public funds. But e-commerce just can. It's just crazy.

Clint Betts

Yeah, for sure. It is an interesting dilemma to solve. And you mentioned a company, Cotopaxi, that does this. I think they were the first Utah company to be registered as a benefit corporation. And that became a thing for a while. And I would say social entrepreneurship kind of became a thing. I think it started with maybe TOMS Shoes, where you buy a shoe and another one is given for free to someone who needs it. And then Warby Parker with the glasses had the same model. How do you know who's real and isn't? How do you know who's using social entrepreneurship as a way to brand and market themselves and who's genuinely committed to the cause that their business is based around?

Lindsay Hadley

That is such a great question, Clint. I think the same way you can look at brands, they're essentially just people. Brands, behind a brand, are people running it. I think the greatest way to gain the trust of others is just to be trustworthy, right? So the greatest way to be legitimately about the cause is to just be about the cause. And people can see. For example, that one-for-one model you talked about, which has been criticized and rightfully so there's some dysfunctional things about it, right?

I know TOMS Shoes, which I'm a big fan of . They've had some troubles in actually, and the criticisms really warranted, of putting so many free shoes in some developing countries they've disrupted local markets. So people who are a local guy living in poverty who's selling shoes just now an influx of free shoes came into the market and you put that guy out of a job. So they've been trying to look at—

Clint Betts

That's interesting. I didn't even know that. That's fascinating.

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah. They had some negative consequences. There are, absolutely. Sometimes helping hurts and it's a very humbling experience. I've been part of those endeavors where you're like, "Oh my gosh, we thought we were trying to do a good thing." For example, speaking of vulnerable children, this is a little bit of a tangent, but over $3 billion a year from the Christian community, from the west, from the United States is going into orphanages around the world. And we found that 80% of all orphans living in orphanages actually have living parents. The majority of them are being placed there because if we build it, they will come.

Parents living in abject poverty place their children there like a boarding school solution where they can get fed and educated and eat three meals a day. And they're like, "I'm relinquishing my child because it's a better lifestyle than the poverty I can offer them."

But the titular heads of academia have done the research and it's unequivocally just not the case. The kids would be better staying home with mom and dad and having no education, one meal a day. The effects are devastating to be abandoned in institutional care. And so here we are, as Christians and the west, just funding what we thought was helping little kids and it's actually creating a family separation crisis. So to go back to your question, how do you know which ones are good? It's just like any person. How do you know someone is trustworthy? You have to build a relationship and you have to take some of that risk.

You can obviously look up online and do due diligence, like anything else. If you're going to swipe left on some Tinder app, you can Google and check out, "Oh, they've been in prison," or gosh they have whatever. But genuinely, you have to take some level of risk and relationship with some of these organizations. But I think you can find out a lot and just see how holistic. Is it just a marketing stint where they're like, "We give 10% back," and it just feels like an afterthought? So for example, Sackcloth & Ashes is a company that, full disclosure, I'm an investor in so I'm totally biased. And so take this with a grain of salt. But one of the reasons why I'm an investor is because of who Bob Dalton is.

So Bob is the founder. It's a one-for-one model. For every blanket you buy, a second blanket is donated to a homeless person in your zip code. And if you look at Bob's story, you ask the story what is the why they got involved and that'll tell you a lot. So his mom became homeless when she fell on hard times after her mother and her brother died. She turned to alcohol for comfort, then got into a bad relationship with addiction and then ended up being homeless, sleeping on beaches and benches, as Bob says. And he was the kid who would drive, he's from Portland, Oregon, and he would drive by the homeless community, which is so pervasive there and whisper under his breath, “Get a job.”

And now, his mother, who's the hardest working woman he knew who always had two jobs, single mom is now homeless. And it was very humbling for him. And so he started this company because he actually called the local homeless shelter and was like, "What can I do to help?" And they said, "We need blankets." And he tried to start making blankets, realized he wasn't a very good seamstress, and then came up with this business model to address this need for blankets.

So if you look holistically, Bob, all of the materials are recycled. So they hire refugees for the seamstresses and homeless population. They have recyclable packaging. It's like, holistically, the whole thing is just somebody who cares about the world. And then you look at how Bob lives and how radically and recklessly generous he is with others and what he's done to help. I think you just find out more about the identity behind all of it and you'll find how sincere it is. And I think in general, I think most people are sincere, most people want to. Some people want to make money and do good, there's nothing wrong with that.

You can make money with a good marketing identity because you're generous and people then choose your product as a result, like Davis has made this great brand where people know this is the core of who he is. It's like great, then he makes more, he can help more people. I'm pretty unabashed about it. I'm just not as jaded. But I think that I get why society is reticent and concerned. I think that we can bridge the gap between capitalism, which kind of beat out socialism, which was this tension we had for some time of—and capitalism won in our society. But it's gone really far. And I think social impact, this whole motif, is trying to pull it in a way that's like, hey, it's not just about profits, it's also about people and the planet and sustainability and we have responsibilities to each other as an ecosystem. You know what I mean?

Clint Betts

Yeah. I think that makes sense. And it's easy to see why people start these types of companies, particularly really good people, right?

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah.

Clint Betts

Because, hey, it's really cool to make money, but I also would like to do something and make a difference. It makes a lot of sense. I wonder, examples like you mentioned, like this TOMS Shoes thing got me thinking when these types of companies maybe do make a mistake or do something unintentionally that has negative consequences. I imagine it's really hard to get that reputation back, even harder than for a company, like an oil company? If they screw up, they're like "Oops, we're still going to do oil. What do you want from us?" But when a TOMS Shoes, and I'm not singling them out because I actually know nothing about what you said, but a company like this, how do they overcome when they make a mistake, when they unintentionally have a negative effect in the world, when their whole mission and core of their company is the opposite?

Lindsay Hadley

That's such a fair question. In my experience, it is a lot harder because the trust equity has to be higher. If you're going out with, "Hey, I'm the do-gooder," then when people are like, "Oh, really?" There's hypocrisy here or whatever. I found in the case of TOMS Shoes, they were pretty public and blatant about, "Yeah, we've learned a lot," and just taking ownership of like, we had this good intention and we're learning along the way. And I think it is hard. I think it's about communication. I think some people are going to always tear down people. They're going to always assume the worst in people. You can't always control what the tide of the public thinks. But I think managing through PR and managing communique is important just in saying, "Look, this is the truth and this is what has been our journey." I recently gave a TEDx talk called “The Shocking Truth About Orphans.”

And I go into some of this, where helping has hurt in the institutional care of kids. And some of these myths around the idea about orphans and foster kids, things that we don't know. For example, one of the myths I discuss is that most people think you have to get on a plane and go to a third world country to interact with orphans. And yet, we have 420,000 kids in foster care at any given time in the United States. And 100,000 of those, about a quarter of them, are awarded custody to the state they live in. Their parental rights have been terminated. And so they're literally our orphans. We don't call them that, we call them children experiencing foster care.

But that's a giant myth, we just don't have orphans in America. It's like, yeah we do, they're foster kids. And so many churches and people are like, "I care about orphans." And then they get on a plane where they do a short term visit and they don't become a relied upon person in that kid's life.

And even though they meant so well and they took the selfies and photos and they loved on the kids and played with them, which I've done by the way, I've totally been guilty of this, you don't realize that you're actually creating radical attachment disorder because these kids are super used to abandonment because again, 80% of them have parents that abandoned them.

And then you're just popping in and out and they actually have a hard time psychologically bonding and connecting to people because of this ripping the bandaid off over and over. And so the more we learn, it's like, "Gosh, I did that." I used to go volunteer in Kenya and hold little orphan babies. No one's holding them, they're just sitting in a crib like rotting away. I just came to love on them. I didn't know.

It's like, shoot, there are better ways. Maybe instead of donating to sponsor the kid in an orphanage, pay for a social worker who will help them find a permanent family or fund a family before they ever get separated in the first place. There's a bunch of organizations now that are repurposing orphanages and turning them into community centers where you can have vocational education or childcare so that these kids can be with their parents at the end of the day.

It's really like a new paradigm. But I think what I want to say is I found that if somebody's like, I just learned that what I was doing wasn't the best and I pivoted it. Gosh, where's the grace in someone's intentions? We didn't know what we didn't know until we learned, right? I don't know.

Clint Betts

Yeah, yeah. That's the thing is like we're all going to fail. We're all going to make mistakes, we're all going to unintentionally have negative consequences. It's probably just more about how you handle it, how you think about it and how you position it. It's kind of interesting. I don't know if they're a non-profit or what they are, this Operation Underground Railroad, Tim Ballard, you probably know him.

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah, I've met him. Yeah.

Clint Betts

I've met him as well. I've actually interviewed him. I don't know him that well, but I've talked to him in the past and he gets a lot of flack for what you just mentioned, but in a whole different realm or a different topic around this idea of child sex trafficking and exploitation. And he sets up these sting operations. What they do is incredible, it's wild. It's like out of a movie. I think they're actually making a movie about it. But he gets criticized for it as well. And I just wonder how you handle the criticism I think says a lot about you.

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. And this is the thing, every donor and every consumer, there is some onus of responsibility where they have to check. They have to do due diligence, like Google and look into what are the accusations, what is going on in that individual, their life. And wherever there's smoke, there's fire. If there's a lot, if it's a consistent negative review or people have bad experiences and there's just like if it's a pattern, then you got to be leery. So all that stuff is super hard, but it's really tough when there are, because there are bad actors, there are people in the nonprofit space that are not worthy stewards of your money and they may be wasting it, squandering it, giant egos that are driving it, dishonest, nefarious. There's all kinds of stuff out there.

And so tragically, those people who do that are such a dissent and take away from the trust equity that the public has for those who really are earnest and doing it good. And then people can play good intentions with malicious intentions. And gosh, this is a really fair question. I think at the end of the day, relationship is everything. If you actually know the people and you can and most... Or even a big NGO, you can build a relationship with someone inside of that ecosystem and really start to understand what they're doing and what they're about. And so whatever organization is, whatever you hear about them, you can research it, look into it and ask good questions.

Every NGO has its requirement by the IRS to actually publicly produce their, what's called their 990s, which is their tax statements, to show exactly how they're spending the money and what they're doing. The big thing you want to be careful of is don't just automatically think, "Oh, it's a huge overhead, that means it's a bad organization." That's not necessarily true. It depends. So you could have someone not getting paid at all or getting paid pennies and they're entirely ineffective human being. Just because someone's not being paid well, doesn't mean they're good at their job. In fact, usually, it's the inverse. If you're really good at your job, you actually probably are creating enough value to pay yourself well. You know what I mean?

Clint Betts

Yeah.

Lindsay Hadley

So low overhead doesn't mean someone's effective and I'd rather pay somebody better and then have huge results. Because at the end of the day we're trying to solve problems here. You know what I mean? So that's all the stuff you got to look into. But yeah, there's some people who enmesh their funds, embezzle money or are fraudulent. It's tragic. We all have to just wade through that sewer as we try to make the world better. It's tough, for sure.

Clint Betts

Yeah, it's interesting. You see a non-profit executive maybe making a lot of money, but then we're like, "We should pay teachers more. We should pay all these people." And if we want the very best talent, we should pay them more. That's not the issue.

Lindsay Hadley

Agreed. Agreed. Yeah.

Clint Betts

How do you decide what you're going to work on?

Lindsay Hadley

Mine has been—

Clint Betts

And who you're going to work with?

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah. Well, mine has been mostly through, again, relationships. I really care about who more than the what because there's so many working things to be involved in. I have more and more gravitated towards the vulnerable children piece because it is so further upstream to so many issues that I care about. I care about all those things mentioned, homelessness, poverty, mental health, crime, I care about all that, sexual exploitation. And when I realized, wow, this is—I don't know, I feel like you learn a lot from a society, how they treat those dependent on them.

There literally are orphans in our own backyard, these foster kids, and children around the world. Refugee issues, people that are just by the absolute luck of God that you're not in that situation right now, or you are. Interestingly with the Ukraine War recently and the exodus of all these refugees, a friend of mine, Jason Stout, we worked together in helping refugees years ago in a couple different non-profit endeavors.

And now he's married to a Ukrainian woman, living in Ukraine as now a refugee himself. So isn't that interesting? Here's this man who's helping people his whole life, helping refugees around the world and now he's finding himself in that position.

Clint Betts

Wow.

Lindsay Hadley

You just never know when it could be you that needs help. It could be you that is in that situation. It's so fascinating because, particularly, there was a article online where there was a horrible tragedy where a little toddler was eaten by a crocodile at Disney World, in Florida a few years ago. I don't know if you heard this. It was horrible. There was a little kid that was eaten by an alligator, crocodile, I think alligator, in Florida. And I was looking at the comments through the article and people were just blaming these parents and, "I would never let that happen to my kid. I'd be watching my kid. What are they doing?"

It was at Disney World, like a public area. Why would anyone think there would be life threatening animals, dangerous animals, wild animals that could eat your kid. So anyway, long story short, I couldn't believe the amount of negative comments and I started researching what is it? And it often happens. Someone gets in a car accident and someone dies or some terrible, someone breaks into your home, fire, whatever, refugees.

And people, they actually blame the victim. And there's this human nature to be like, "Well, I would never let myself be in that position." And they've realized in psychology, it's a way to make people feel less afraid because being vulnerable is such a scary idea. And so by demonizing the victim and objectifying the victim in some way, you can distance yourself from that threat ever being a possibility for you. I would never be that foolish. I would never be a parent that could do that. And it's kind of a terrible human phenomenon, for sure.

Clint Betts

Tell us when your documentary gets released.

Lindsay Hadley

So it's going to be out in February. I think the first week in February, we're having a premiere and then we're going to be trying to get it out through distribution. So we're in that effort right now, figuring out how you can watch it. I'll be sure to share that. But you could go to hadleyimpact.com to learn more or follow me on social media, Lindsay S. Hadley, I'll probably promote it there. But thanks for asking. I'm just so grateful to connect with you, Clint. Are you guys doing a lot with Silicon Slopes right now? You guys have done a lot of charitable things over the years through education and other things.

Clint Betts

Yeah, we do stuff like that at Silicon Slopes. We get the criticism, we make the mistakes. So some of that was, even for myself, I'm like, "Hey, how do you navigate these things when you maybe don't live up to people's"—
Yeah. We feed a million families every year at Silicon Slopes Summit.

Lindsay Hadley

Wow.

Clint Betts

We do the packaging of the meals and stuff, and it's a pretty big effort between us and the food bank and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That's really cool. And various things like that. But yeah, Silicon Slopes is a nonprofit. And so the only way I try to run that thing is don't die. I don't want the organization to die and let's try to do as much good as possible and just see what happens. But who knows if that's the right way to do it?

Lindsay Hadley

I didn't realize it was a nonprofit. You just taught me something.

Clint Betts

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a nonprofit. It can't lose money. But also, it doesn't matter if it makes a ton of money either, right?

Lindsay Hadley

Yeah. Yeah. So where is your main source of revenue, from your conference every year?

Clint Betts

Mm-hmm. Yeah, the event kind of funds the org.

Lindsay Hadley

Sponsorships, yeah. That's really cool. What you've done is amazing and it's paid off. The community and the ecosystem that you've been nurturing and harboring for our tech entrepreneurs and just entrepreneurship in general. And it's just really impressive. And I'm super grateful for all you've done. I hope people feel like you're entitled to any kind of success that comes from all the value created in the community.

Clint Betts

Well, you're very kind. And seriously, I love working with you. We've worked with each other in the past and I hope we work with each other in the future. I'm looking forward to watching this documentary when it comes out. Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on the show. What an honor.

Lindsay Hadley

Thanks for having me. Appreciate you.