Aled Miles Transcript
Clint Betts
Aled, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's a pleasure to meet you and have you on the show. You are the CEO of Formstack. Let's start with just a basic introduction to what Formstack is and how you became CEO of that company.
Aled Miles
Clint, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. A pleasure to be here. Formstack, probably the easiest way to describe what we do, is to apply it to your life. I bet you don't particularly like filling in forms. I love filling in forms said no one ever. So, we at scale provide companies and enterprises the ability to create forms as seamlessly as possible and make filling them in as automated as possible. And of course, when you fill in a form, if you think about when you go to a dentist or a doctor, that form carries information that goes into, say, a document for a repeat prescription or for a next appointment or a procedure. We call that workflow, where the information that you provide stays in the system, and if you will, a document could be created. Lastly, you may find yourself needing to sign something. And if we do this in an automated fashion, it's happening electronically.
So, the simple way of describing it is we do forms, documents, and an e-signature, but perhaps if you are an enterprise, the backend that we provide is an automated, competent, compliant workflow. And I'm sure during our time together, we'll get into data and what that means. The second part of your question, how did I get here? A lot of people say things to me, like what it feels like to be an entrepreneur. And the truth is, I'm not. I've never been an entrepreneur. I don't know what it's like to start a company, and Clint, I have the utmost respect for those people who dive head-first into building something themselves. I tend to be asked to come in at a certain stage of a company's value and help it scale to being what we would call a full-size scalable global enterprise. So, the investors called me and asked me if I'd help transition the company to that scale.
Clint Betts
And how long have you been there? How long have you been CEO?
Aled Miles
Since December. So, I'm still new and fresh.
Clint Betts
That's incredible. And so I was telling you before we came on, we actually recently switched over to Formstack at our company and the backend and the myriad of things that you can do with it is quite incredible. I imagine as I'm thinking about it, I mean we're not like a healthcare company or a finance company, so we don't have to worry about some of the features inside of there, but I imagine that compliance piece is a big deal in getting that right.
Aled Miles
It is. Firstly, thanks for being a customer. I always think that the two most important words in business are thank you and we appreciate that you did that. When I joined, one of the first things that you have to define as a company is where are you going? What I call line of sight. It's a bit more than direction for me. It's a bit more than strategy even. When you create a line of sight, it's not just where you want to end up, but it's how you get there and giving that view up the mountainside to the peak. One of the things that I felt fairly strongly about after I talked to a number of customers, particularly our healthcare customers, was that they were increasingly having a problem with putting compliant data into the workflow.
So Clint, again, if I may, let me give you an example of that. So, imagine that you're a doctor. It's hard for me to do. I don't have the skill set or the intelligence to be as clever as doctors, but if you are a doctor who performs surgery, one healthcare professional explained to me it was a bit like a doctor having a plate of food in front of them that they didn't know they could eat because it might do some damage. In other words, the food isn't compliant, and the frustration is the food's right there in front of them; the data is already in the system, but they have to ask the patient for the data again, or they have to refill in the form, which is a mundane, repetitive exercise that frankly they shouldn't have to do.
They should have more time literally to do the magic of what they do. So, the concept of having compliant data is absolutely critical. Of course, we've all heard of HIPAA regulations, GDPR is no longer just a European issue. ISO 27,001, I think, is another compliancy that is critical to data management. So we just bought a company that specializes in data management, and I think what I would call it is a data activation platform where you can take the data and activate it so it becomes useful to both the patient experience and the doctor experience. And it's all about managing the data coming in and making it compliant. And you wouldn't be surprised to know that there are elements of artificial intelligence that automate that mundane so that the doctor or the healthcare professionals can do their magic.
Clint Betts
I was going to ask you how you are utilizing artificial intelligence and what you think your company will look like in five years, given that technology and the various ways that you can integrate it. Who even knows where that technology will be in five years?
Aled Miles
Very good question. Let me give you a two-part answer, and then I'll answer the second part. So here's a really lovely example of AI that's real that you can use in your product. So think ChatGPT, voice prompt or just simple keyboard prompt. If you think about the complexity of forms that are needed in healthcare or education or in large human resources, people departments of large banks are creating myriads of forms, and some of those forms are quite complex. In the old days, you had to literally do drop-down menus and inserts. Now you can use AI to just prompt, create a form that helps me bring in a patient, help me create a form that enables me to survey my student base about the quality of this program, and it'll just do it for you magically in front of your eyes. So, less time at the keyboard, more time doing the things that you want to do for your purpose.
We're doing that for both the forms creation and the document creation, and we're the first in the industry to do it, so much less work from you. Secondly, what I was talking about from the perspective of a doctor in that use case is we're using AI to tag data as it ingests, as it comes in. So that large quantities of data can be tagged against a set of compliance rules. The customer sets the rules, the customer owns the data. What we do is tag it, which says, for example, if you use a social security number and an address and a phone number in this way, that may or may not be compliant with that state's code or code of operations. So obviously, then we're training a small or large language model to interpret that data correctly and then serve it back into the workflow perfectly. Now, in the early days, I'm not saying that this problem has not been solved yet because we've just bought a company that can do this, but we're going to have a product in the market. I would say, if I'm being conservative, early next year might be a bit quicker.
So your last question, company in five years, look, it's very simple. If you look, for example, at the advances that Siri has made and what Apple is doing, and I'm not favoring Apple over any other technology, but Siri's really come on. Your ability to ask it to do things is so much greater than it was. If you think about workflow, forms, documents, and e-sign, agents will do a far better job than humans at that moment. It's relatively mundane, so it's not as contentious as some of the AI solutions that are being looked for, but data compliance is really important, and humans won't do, haven't done, and won't ever in the future do as good a job as a carefully and thoughtfully trained model that an AI agent acts on a human's behalf. So we're not trying to be as complex as some other industries, but we are solving quite a complex problem. So, in five years' time, I think that our industry will experience major disruption, and we're trying to get ahead of that disruption with a line of sight to an AI-enabled future, not an AI future.
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's super interesting and congrats on being first in the industry there. That's a big deal.
Aled Miles
Thank you.
Clint Betts
What does a typical day look like for you as CEO of Formstack?
Aled Miles
Oh boy, you know, Clint, I'm not sure that any day is typical, frankly, and I think I like it that way. My team will tell you that I have to really concentrate, and having variety in my life is a good thing. It generally falls into two parts. I'm a huge believer in face-to-face contact. We have a new office that we've just put into Denver. We have an office in Indianapolis, we have an office in Los Angeles. I try to get to those offices and see and touch people, hear what they've got to say, listen to their point of view. So I'm frequently traveling, so a typical day begins and ends with an airport or a hotel. When I'm not traveling, I'm a pretty early riser. Our investors and our board members are on the East Coast, so I'm usually up at about 5:45 or 6 o'clock.
I work out. I'm a great believer in keeping myself fit and eating well. I think that provides a certain degree of energy for my day. So, I'll try to get a workout in before the day starts because the longer the day goes on, the harder it is to work out. Email got to get email done. Email is the bane of my life; just let's get that cleared so it's not cluttering my mind. And then, for me, it's a decision about what's important versus urgent and setting priorities. I have a fantastic assistant who knows that I like to cluster meetings. So what I like to do is do meeting after meeting after meeting in a four or five-hour period, which leaves the rest of the day to whatever is needed, whether it's thinking time, reading, or people need me at a moment when I'm unscheduled. Clint, I will tell you one of my pet hates is to be over-scheduled.
And I believe that having time is restful for the mind enables you to be both tactical and strategic. And I think lastly what I would say is sometimes when people say what type of CEO are you, I mean this with all the humility in the world, even though I may not be as humble as I should sometimes be, and that is whatever the company needs, whatever type of CEO the company needs at any given moment, and that could be different at the beginning of the day or the end of the day. If you don't make time in a day to breathe, to refine your energy, then I think you are imbalancing your capability. And I'm no longer afraid of gaps 'cause I think they're really valuable, and I'm a true believer that the CEO job is not just chief executive officer, but it's chief energy officer.
Clint Betts
Yeah, I love that. That's super interesting, actually. As you think about prioritizing product roadmaps and various things that deal with, okay, so basically what I want to ask is I go a little bit deeper on that question around how do you decide where to spend your time each day versus product versus team versus meetings versus traveling, all that. How do you make those decisions on what the priority is for you in a week or a day? It is just really interesting to get into the mindset of somebody who's running a company like yours.
Aled Miles
Yeah, I am not sure I truly know. I'm not sure that, if I'm honest, I have a routine of an answer here, and I think it changes, and I think being able to deal with change, your different periods in a company require different responses. So, when you join a company, I have a different set of priorities in the first six months than I do now in the latter half of the year. Look, in the first six months, it was to assimilate as much information as possible. So, I was pretty meeting-heavy, firstly understanding employees' reactions and then understanding customer reactions. And I think until that's been assimilated, you can't really make the decisions on time or priorities of choice.
So I suppose I'm answering the question by saying in the beginning, I was choosing a priority of listening, using two ears more than one mouth, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who I work with who are like, "Really? I don't know if you do that", but that was the intent. I would say that there was a period of time when my priority became more directive, which is a dangerous period because I am, if you think about the formation of geese, I chose to take the front position and fly for the distance that I need to get the formation organized so that we have altitude and thrust, we have speed and altitude because a company needs both. I have reached the point where the decisions now I'm making about my time, literally in the last week, Clint. I'm able to drop back in the formation. And if you follow the analogy, there are two components of that priority choice. One is I am slipstreaming; I'm rebuilding energy because now other people, like our chief operations officer, are taking on the planning cycle for next year.
Our sales leader is truly driving our customer orientation. Our brand new chief solutions officer is now worried about gross retention, and these roles have lanes, responsibilities, and accountability. So I'm now slipstreaming, which is phenomenal. I have now more time. So now I'm thinking about what the market is doing. So, my switch now is more market orientation and macroeconomics. How much are we actually satisfying customers? What are customers telling us that we're not noticing? So it's a probing time so that the formation that we're flying in is getting less wind resistance, more capability to get higher and further and conserve the energy to do it.
So it's an odd answer to your question, but I'm very methodical about where we are in the company's evolution, and I'm now trying to think about what next year looks like and, even beyond next year, what '26 looks like. What do we have to buy or build? What is the product and engineering team thinking about? Do we have to re-engineer the components of our platform? How do we do that rather like a Jenga puzzle, pull some pieces out, but the stack, every pun intended, stays stable? Those are the biggest strategic questions, and that's what I should be worried about, as well as the tactical concern about the happiness of our employees. Sorry, I'm a bit long-winded.
Clint Betts
No, that was beautiful. What's the best piece of leadership advice you've ever received?
Aled Miles
Oh boy. Humility and curiosity. Just two words. Be humble and curious; I'm not naturally humble. I'm going to confess that. There are plenty of people you could talk to and agree with you. The older I have got, the more I truly try to be humble. It's not an ego thing, either. It's funny, it's not ego for me, it's the humility of listening. I have to practice that. I'm a natural talker, I'm a Welshman. We love to talk, and I've read more. I'm more curious to learn from other people, to be mentored, to be advocated for, and to be curious about customer needs, employee needs, and board needs. So humility and curiosity are watchwords I try to practice from a leadership perspective, and I fail.
Clint Betts
What are you reading, and what reading recommendations do you have for us?
Aled Miles
Oh my gosh, I'll answer that. I'll tell you that the book that has guided me in recent times the most is a book called Surfing the Edge of Chaos and companies are chaotic and there is a natural belief in all of us. The minute that somebody says chaos, we think it's negative. Well, if you can harness the power of chaos, then it can be really powerful for change.
Now, of course, too much chaos is negative, but this book talks about the comparison of business and nature. So, it's a fascinating comparison. It's a very intellectual book, and it also takes case studies of large organizations and how they harnessed chaos. And there have been just a couple of lines that have appeared in that book that stayed with me. Equilibrium is the precursor to death. Companies that stand still for too long, disequilibrium devices are powerful change agents, sometimes literally creating a little swirl, creating a little chaos, causing people to step out of their comfort zone and think harder. So I would say it's quite a tough read, but there's, look, I'm no book critic. I'd say 40% of the book is fascinating, and the book was written 20 years ago. Great book, No Rules Rules, just love the whole cultural aspect of that. I think that's a really brilliant piece of writing.
I was a big fan of Sapiens, Yuval Harari, but what I'm more interested in now is I've just started reading Homo Deus, human gods, which of course, is a really, really good follow-on from the brief history of man to what man can become through this technological evolution that we're going through. So, it touches on both humanity and the humanities of man, as well as what our future looks like. And I'm halfway through, and I mean, it's a great read, and he's such a great writer. So that's in my motion at the moment.
Clint Betts
What do you read throughout the day? Are you reading the Wall Street Journal, trade publications, and things like that?
Aled Miles
Big Financial Times Reader, love the FT, love the quality of writing and the analysis. Some of it goes over my head; I'm not that bright, but boy, I'm very good from a macroeconomic and socioeconomic motion. I would say Wall Street Journal for US business and generic news. After that, when I wake up in the morning, a little bit to answer your earlier question, the first thing I do is go to the BBC news app, British, sorry, but just world news,
I'm an American citizen, so with all due respect to American television, sometimes the true international nature of news, I tend to capture from BBC World. I rely very heavily on a number of our executives to also pool reading resources. So, in our Slack, if somebody sees a great article, they drop it in for the executive team to read, and that makes for great reading. I like to print reading out and take off reading, come down, read, and just make handwritten notes just to keep the brain matter going and stay current on all aspects of what I need to worry about.
Clint Betts
As someone who's thinking about this so often these days, what are your thoughts on the macroeconomic and maybe even the macro environment in general? What's happening obviously in the United States is that we've got an election coming up, but over 20, 25 countries have elections coming up this year, which will affect the economy and affect policy leading into it. Your current view on the macro state of things?
Aled Miles
I'm pretty positive, actually. I think we are in a fairly good economy at this moment. Look, I think there's a nod to maybe as many as two interest rate cuts. I think it takes a quarter or two for them to really flow through the system, but it's good to see. I think the work that's been done lately, and I'm not being political here, and I'm not going to declare any political viability, but I think that what we are seeing is caution with optimism. I think I'm more worried about the socioeconomic and socio-political situation in many countries.
I think, as you say, there are a number of elections coming up, and it's very interesting to see the polarization in certain countries that's going on at the moment. Like you, I'm sure I worry about the polarization of the US, not just politically but in terms of macroeconomic status. I worry about the variance in education standards, particularly because of some of the stuff that's in my past work-wise. I'm very worried about the environment here I am in northern California today. Two days ago, friends of ours rang, and three boys were in a local summer camp. Sorry, that great technological ability to put a thumbs up whenever you want it. There was a forest fire, and they had to be evacuated from the camp.
I think what's happening to our planet is going to have a socio and macroeconomic effect, and I think we're ignoring it. And so, if you want a political soapbox, that's the one I jump on the most. That one concerns me, but I think the outlook economically I feel is good for us and for our country in the coming years, subject to how the election goes and what either party decides in the future that I can't predict.
Clint Betts
Do you think it even matters who wins these types of things from an economic perspective? I mean, obviously, it matters. I don't want to dismiss it, but from an economic and business perspective, does it matter?
Aled Miles
I agree with the inheritance question in your question. Look, the political spectrum now is pretty wide. So whether I'm a Democratic supporter or Republican supporter, I mean, I will classify myself. I'm socially liberal, I'm fiscally conservative. That doesn't mean to say I'm either a Democrat or a Republican.
Clint Betts
Yeah, exactly.
Aled Miles
I am pretty comfortable with many of the economic policy changes that have happened, and I believe that if there's a change in government from a business perspective, the right has been very pro-business. Unfortunately in politics on both sides, we just should avoid the extremes. But I think there's a middling in US politics, certainly in British politics, and I certainly feel more comfortable talking about British politics. If you look at the recent election of Sir Keir Starmer, you see a left-wing labor government that I would describe as close to the centrist policies of the Tony Blair days. The business community in the United Kingdom was more concerned about the policies of Liz Truss for 30 days than it was a major change of a Tory government.
Clint Betts
That's fascinating. That's actually really interesting. Switching back to leadership, what are the three most important leadership traits that you think every leader should try to cultivate or have?
Aled Miles
Okay, I'm going to do three in addition to humility and curiosity 'cause I feel like I've already answered that. The first one that shouts the loudest to me is self-awareness. If you don't have the ability to look at yourself in the mirror or take constructive feedback, and by taking constructive feedback, you have to genuinely invite it; you have to ask for it. I have a CEO cancel that I do about every six weeks, all corners of the company, all races, all genders. I got some feedback this morning that was directed solely at me. It was brilliantly delivered, and I accepted it with grace because it was a gift. For me, the second component after self-awareness is the leadership's ability to recognize and change. And that change may be minute. It may be in the simplicity of my next conversation, or it may be my disposition to the whole company or the whole market.
It could be small or large. And there's a two-by-two that I use both when I coach and when I try to coach myself, and it bleeds into my private life with my wife, and the two-by-two is very simple. Am I self-aware enough, or am I being told that I am unconsciously being incompetent? Now it's a little dramatic, right, incompetence. So we'll tone the word down, but it still hits the meaning. So, am I not aware that I'm doing something wrong? Which, of course, is very important in marriage, partnerships, or friendships. I may be doing something inadvertently that is causing frustration.
The next box is Can I, therefore, through self-awareness, shift into conscious incompetence? I'm aware that I'm doing it, and only now that I'm in that box can I move to conscious competence. And if I deliver repeatability and build a habit, can I become unconsciously competent? So, my wife, one very simple gesture I can make is to fill her water glass at night before she goes to bed. It's such a simple thing, and I was unconsciously incompetent. I wasn't doing it. We talked about acts of service as an important part of our marriage, and now I do it without thinking, unconsciously competent. I don't do it every night. If she was by my side, she'd say what happened on Thursday? But there is a certain Unconsciousness of that, and I think that is a really important quality in leadership about oneself. So it's a natural number one, number two. Number three for me, I'm afraid to say, is speed and urgency and speed, not haste, but the world in which we live, the high degree of competitors, and the high need to satisfy and make your product relevant to customers. There's always someone wanting to take market share. There's always somebody wanting to do better than you. I'm afraid that in modern business, we have to realize that sitting on one's laurels is no longer possible and that there is a sense of speed, not haste, and urgency, in what we do. And you can see, Clint, how it ties back to my theory and thoughts about energy, which I think are absolutely critical. So, self-awareness, understanding your degree of competence and where you stand in that two by two, and then being able to build a sense of speed, not haste and urgency.
Clint Betts
How do you stay grounded? How do you stay motivated? How do you stay self-aware?
Aled Miles
I have two kids.
Clint Betts
Yeah, that'll do it.
Aled Miles
One's five, one's 10. Let me tell you that keeps you grounded. I rely very heavily on my relationship with my wife. I have a true partner and a partner who is also a partner to my business career and a partner who is super bright. She's an MBA who has... We have built into our relationship the ability to say, "I don't think you're understanding where you're at." We also talk about the race to say sorry. Whether I'm at fault or not, saying sorry is a diffuser. I'm doing something that is triggering you. I'm doing something that isn't right, and these are words we should use in business. And having the awareness of people. I actively drive my executive team to keep me grounded. I think thirdly, I'm very, very willing to be self-deprecating, and humor is a great way to apply that. I'm not as mathematically competent as I am, perhaps communicatively competent. So I'm aware of my weaknesses, and so I have to work on those, and I have my work checked. I recently put a decimal point in the wrong place and nearly gave a board member a heart attack.
I would also say that there's a part of my DNA here that helps. People from Wales we're pretty much a farming culture, a coal mining culture. We've been subjugated as a nation throughout history. I laugh, I have a chip on both shoulders, so I'm balanced. And there's a part of that that drives humility. To this day, one, I found America; two, the United States granted me citizenship and the ability to live here. That's amazing. Then I found the great city of Los Angeles, and I've had more opportunities in this country than I thought believable, and I'm a Welshman. We just naturally, I think we naturally have our feet in the ground, but you have to be self-aware of when you are being, fill in inappropriate words, and sure, I do it, I fail. But just recognize it and have humility and curiosity about yourself.
Clint Betts
And by the way, Wales is so beautiful. I was there four or five years ago. What a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful place.
Aled Miles
Thank you.
Clint Betts
I think I took the train from London, and that train ride was so incredible.
Aled Miles
I love it. We often say that Welsh people are the Irish that couldn't swim. We couldn't get over there. But the comparison of our countries in terms of beauty is very similar. We love the Irish; the Irish love the Welsh. And I have this, as you know, I have this amazing sort of second gig, which I do pro bono for free, representing the Welsh government as the Welsh government envoy in the United States, which has been one of the great joys of my life to lift the voice of Wales. This is a special time for Wales. There's a lot going on. We're just about to announce our first female first minister. We've just had our first black minister, sadly, not for as long as I believe we should have, but both are good people. So first politically and then more humorously, I don't know if you've come across Welcome to Wrexham, the TV series. Mr. Ryan Reynolds and Mr. Rob McElhenney, hats off to you. They've done more for lifting the voice of Wales in 18 episodes than we've done in 18 years. So keep going, Wrexham.
Clint Betts
That is true. It's interesting, the power that has and the way sports brings people together. And obviously those two are also massive celebrities, which helps. So you get all of their following and the attention that they get, which is cool. I wonder what about your journey to becoming the leader you are today has surprised you?
Aled Miles
Oh, I mean, look, I never, you talk to my 17-year-old self, could never believed that I would have the privilege to hold this job title more than a few times. I would say my father, just to go back to Wales, is a Welsh Baptist minister. And both he and my mother are both really strong orators. So, I believe that they gave me the gift of communication, which, of course, is more and more important in today's society. Communication is such an important role for a leader. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a brilliant communicator or public speaker, but just being able to precisely and concisely tell a story. So I think that was an enormous influence, obviously, on my career. And then I think along the way, there were people who influenced me greatly, and I learned at their knees. One of them is John W. Thompson. John was the CEO at Symantec when I was there during my twenty-year career. He then became the chairman of Microsoft and is, I think, one of the great CEOs of our time.
He taught me to understand the energy of a company. So, when I talk about the chief energy officer, I don't mean my energy; I mean the ability to interpret. He called it the rhythm of a company. Then, I worked directly for a gentleman named Steve Bennett, who was the former CEO of Intuit and our chairman at Symantec. He gave me my first major executive opportunity on the executive team of what was then a $25 billion market cap company and the discipline. And I mean, he was tough. He drove it tough. And I would say that I don't drive it quite as tough as him, but I've taken a little of the toughness, the reality that a company sometimes needs to know with the empathy and the rhythm that John talked about. And those two really carved my leadership philosophy alongside some of the reading that went on. And I think it was pretty amazing to have spent 20 years at a company that felt like a different company every six. I wasn't at Symantec, the same company, for 20 years. I was at every six years. Three and a bit, right? Three and a bit changes. Companies do evolve, and this is why I talk about leadership evolving, but then just experience, being open to the experiences that are presented to you. I took a left-hand career turn to run a helicopter company, which is how I came to the US. However, the experience taught me more about fiscal management than perhaps I'd been exposed to in a large company that has large financial teams. It was a P&L; it was cash flow. Can I make payroll? And sometimes, dealing with distressed businesses, really, those are the times when you learn so much. Sorry, I could go on. So I'll stop. Hopefully, that was close to an answer.
Clint Betts
No, I wonder, I'm bringing back something you said early on in our conversation about how you are traveling a lot and meeting with clients. I wonder if you could explain why that's so important to be in person rather than what we're doing right now. Why is traveling to your customers, to your employees, to your various folks, board, investors, things like that, why is that important to be in person?
Aled Miles
For me, it's the scale of trust. So, we will have developed a certain degree of trust in the short time that we have been on Zoom together. I love listening to you, I'm trying to interpret your energy. I'm doing it, I think, unconsciously as well as consciously. If we were together, I don't know, let's say for half an hour before the call, for me, there's no doubt that our trust scale would've been larger just because of our ability to read each other's mannerisms, which we do unconsciously, a handshake, physical touch, a tap on the arm, a smile is a trust enabler.
I think the other thing in a company moment is, look, I am very aware that the CEO title sometimes carries a little bit of fear or a little bit of hesitation. I try very, very hard to be the same in my home life as I am in my work life. And the same in my work life. There's no need for me to be different. My daughter will come and sit on my knee on a conference call. I'm human, I am a dad. I got to... I also find it very valuable to create more trust through the ability to disarm. So I would love to talk about it. How's your day going? What did you do last night? Tell me about your kids. Tell me a little bit about you personally.
Not in a prying way, but also if I can understand a little bit more about what makes you tick, then I can think about how I react to you. So you know, Clint, sorry about this. Another two by two coming, maybe I'm a two by two man. It doesn't matter to me whether this is right or wrong, but most people are directive naturally, they are extroverted naturally, or they are amiable or analytical. That doesn't mean to say any of those boxes are right or wrong, but it's hard for me to read. Based on your questions and the thoroughness, excuse me, of your preparation, I would say that you have quite a strong analytical component.
You're not afraid of analysis. And the way that you are coming across right now is you are an amiable gentleman. Now, I don't know that. I mean, you are nodding, I've probably got you. And, of course, you can be directive when you need to, and you can be extrovert when you need to, of course. But you lead to, so in the way that I deal with you, if I am forceful, yeah, that's not going to get the best out of you. And if you show me work, I should read it because then you will feel that I am giving you respect. I am respecting where you come from. Now, as a directive extrovert who has to concentrate, my natural response is just to give me the headlines.
Clint Betts
Yeah, give me the highlights.
Aled Miles
How offensive is that to an analytical? And if I'm super directive in a meeting, an amiable person is unlikely to speak. So it's not just one-on-one, I want to read the room face to face. I want to see if everybody is getting a fair shout. Is somebody feeling that this is tough? Is somebody not agreeing here? Are they getting a voice? These are how you build trust scores that are reliable and regular. I don't think it's as easy to do that on Zoom. I think Zoom is brilliant for video conferencing; it's brilliant for speed and getting to people. Now you think about customers. So, the reason I visit customers is discovery. I want to find out what their needs are. I want to find out what's challenging them. I want to find out what makes them go to work every day. I want to find out what their values are. I want to find out what their purpose is. I want to find out what they need. I want to talk about Formstack.
They give more in a face-to-face environment, of course. And we sometimes have a chance to break bread together or just connect as humans. From a work ethic perspective, the company will tell you I believe that certain functions need to be in the office. And I'm quite vociferous about this. Sales, pre-sales, customer success, marketing. Now, not everyone, I'm not an ogre, but I, for example, we've built the executive team so that the customer-experienced executive, the marketing executive, the sales executive, the partner executive, the person in charge of pre-sales, the person in charge of enablement, just off the top of my head, there are six execs who go to work every day.
And what we're seeing coming from that engagement is much different from what we're seeing in asynchronous work. So, for me, I get engineering absolutely product. I get the beauty of asynchronicity and the fact that you know what quietness matters. So, call these philosophies. I don't force it on everyone, but generally speaking, those functions benefit, in my opinion, from the trust scale building.
Clint Betts
That's one of the most brilliant answers I've ever heard that question.
Aled Miles
Oh, you are too kind. Thank you.
Clint Betts
That was incredible.
Aled Miles
Thank you.
Clint Betts
Finally, we end every interview with the same question, and you may have answered it in the previous question around this, but I want to give you the opportunity again and if there's somebody else who comes to mind. At CEO.com, we believe the chances one gives is just as important as the chance one takes. And when you hear that, who gave you a chance to get you to where you are today?
Aled Miles
In truth, it was Steve Bennett. And if Steve watches this, I'll tell you, you were not the easiest person to work for. You were tricky, you were tough, but I learned a lot. You put me on your executive team, and you gave me the opportunity to run a $2.2 billion business and be responsible for its success. That was a major moment. And the second one, I have to say, was the first time I was given a CEO job. When you think about companies recruiting for CEOs, it's incredibly hard to get your first CEO gig. Greg Goldfarb was on our board at Telesign. Jamie Montgomery was on our board at Telesign March Capital. Gerhard Watzinger, current chairman of CrowdStrike, was my chairman at Telesign. CrowdStrike's been in the news.
Those three individuals eventually believed in me enough, with no previous CEO experience, to give me the gig. And I would say that those two moments, from a chance perspective, transformed my career. And you would not expect me to say anything other than gratitude to them. What John Thompson did for me was give me chances every day. It is different. He gave me chances every single day to prove myself, encouraged me, and advocated. And I'm proud to have stayed in touch with him all the time. He gave me the chance through constant advocation. And sometimes people say to me, who's your mentor? And I go, I have a mentor, but I have an advocate in John Thompson. And that man I will be grateful to for the rest of my life.
Clint Betts
Aled, thank you so much. What a pleasure to talk to you.
Aled Miles
Thank you. It was a pleasure to talk to you, too. That was fun.
Edited for readability.