Curtis Anderson Transcript
Clint Betts
Curtis, thank you so much for coming on the show. Pleasure to see you. Pleasure to have you. You are based in the state of Utah, so we know each other through that, through this community, and through everything you've built here, which is quite incredible. You are the founder and CEO of Nursa. Why don't we start with what is Nursa and how you became the founder and CEO of the company?
Curtis Anderson
Brilliant. Thanks for the time, Clint. And the connection as well. I'm excited to have a discussion today. Background on Nursa. Nursa enables facility managers in a healthcare setting who have short-term help staffing needs to connect with qualified nurses who can fill those short-term gaps. A very direct and transparent platform-based connection via software. It sounds pretty simple. Generally, that's because it is. It is pretty simple, but that hasn't been the way things have worked in the industry historically. Staffing agencies have long filled the gaps in all kinds of ways with talent with whom they own the relationship through employment.
So it's a W-2 engagement. They then go to these healthcare facilities, offering a portion of their pool of talent to the facilities in need, and they generally are looking for longer-term contracts. Historically, it's been more of a Nurse Nancy's leaving on summer break or for a longer-term period, and we need to fill that gap for 12 to 16 weeks. There are often multiple parties involved in that discussion, historically, between the manager and the facility that needs the help and the nurse who wants to work. So it becomes this big adult game of telephone, and you can't solve for short-term needs very well at all because, just like the game you used to play on the elementary school playground, lots of people get involved. The message gets distracting or torn apart, and what goes on one side doesn't come out on the other side in the same way. So that was how I started. I bought an agency, and I really felt like, ultimately, we were helping to facilitate solutions, and it didn't take very long. Six weeks before, I realized that we're actually a part of a bigger, broader problem. During that time period, I saw these shorter-term needs that would just go unfilled. It's really hard to incentivize a recruiter to chase a twelve-hour need when you have a nearly endless stream of twelve-week needs available. And so that shorter term, that per diem piece, that was where I got really interested.
Backgrounds in product and engineering and so working through how we might compress the middlemen and create a digital switchboard where we could connect to the two parties that needed to engage quickly. That was the hypothesis on which we started building the software to see if we could solve that problem. Nurses will go on and, after the job is listed, request the shifts that they want to fill. The manager can then determine which nurse they want to schedule to fill the gap based on credentials or reliability. Any number of quality pieces. And then, if it works out, both parties can repeat.
If it turns out that everybody had a good time and that they want to repeat, we don't get in the way of interrupting serendipity. No fees to hire away or make a transfer to a full-time relationship with the facility. And in that sense, we're making the process more simple than it has been in the past. Getting exposure owning an agency was a really great way to start to facilitate solutions and then has been an incredible place for a foundation to build from.
Clint Betts
How did you realize that this was a problem? I mean, what was your background? What was it like? The thing that switches, like, "I need to start a company that addresses this."
Curtis Anderson
So, had done a number of things in software, solving problems, and you really get into that game by just an itch that you can't scratch. From a young age, I knew that software could help facilitate better solutions, automation, or augmentation, but I had a chance to test that out in a whole bunch of relationships and built a number of different solutions. And the beauty of that was just getting to see lots of different problems. I had a friend who called me and said, "You ought to look at this nurse staffing agency, a traditional agency, because this is a place where software hasn't quite got to yet." And I did.
I was really impressed with the growth dynamics of the business and then thought as I went to visit headquarters, there was a mom and pop that were running the thing, there's a whiteboard, and on one side of the whiteboard, they're walking me through how they did it. On one side of the whiteboard are orange sticky notes with nurse names. On the other side of the whiteboard are green sticky notes with hospitals that had needs. The guy running it walked up to the whiteboard and said, "Making money in this business is this easy." Took a sticky note from either side.
And you have a lot of thoughts at that point, but one of them was just, "Look, if I'm half of what my mother thinks I am with Excel, we ought to be able to compress and make this better, let alone the power of the internet as a verb." So that was where I got intrigued. Purchasing the business and understanding really quickly the dynamics of why that was problematic certainly was you're buying the problem, and I think there are certainly better ways, fiscally safer ways, to establish an understanding of the problem. But for me, so much of how I learn is getting in the thick of it, and there just was no better way to work backward into what the industry needed.
This was all pre-COVID as well. And so you're starting to get a sense of the problem, 2017, 2018, and then you build out the tech and bootstrapped and facilitated that through 2019 and really started to learn the dynamics of can we get a manager who has a need and a nurse in the same place online at the same time or in a close enough gap that we could solve for a problem tomorrow? And it was a pretty low bar to entry because in the first year that we owned the agency and were working with that team to scale it out, these short-term per diem needs, 38% of them that we saw were dead on arrival. So literally, if I got a list of shifts today, 38% of them happened yesterday, the day before that, or the day before that. And so you were lagging; the facilities couldn't even get their hand up quick enough to get a response on top of that because of the incentive structure and just how tough it was to make these connections happen. There was just so much more revenue at stake on the longer-term needs of the team dynamic; we didn't fill more than 15 basis points of a percent on all of those shifts that we saw that year. And so the question at the root of it was, "Well, do I think I could get visibility to at least 60-70% of the jobs?" That felt like a pretty low threshold to get there, and that would beat what I was seeing as the norm.
And then the dynamic of could we fill more than a percent because even that was going to be eight to 10X growth on what we had done with a manual headcount-led solution. All of that felt pretty acceptable from a perspective of risk like this. We could throw money. I mean, heck, if you can solve 5% of the needs, you're doing amply better than what the agency could do. And that curiosity then led to, "All right, I mean, this seems easy enough; let's pump out the software." I'm a millennial at heart and by age. And so I think the other aspect of this was just that I had been the benefactor of a number of marketplaces as a consumer.
I think, economically, it's an incredibly pure business model. There's nothing special about my beliefs there. I just think it's efficient and one of the greatest illustrations of the capacity of the internet to go to work for us. I loved the prospect of what marketplaces could do, and shortly after we started building, I got the idea that we had access to both sides of this. There's a really good chance that we could build a marketplace product here and not have to be incredibly capital-intensive if I learned from the agency and then carved it out and grew from there.
It was a really wild era. Then, it only compounded as we turned the corner into Covid. We got the app live on March 3rd, 2020, in the app store.
Clint Betts
Well, perfect timing because... Perfect and imperfect and awful timing at the same time, which is kind of crazy. But in March 2020, Covid became real for everybody. Shutdowns and all that type of stuff started to come, and there was a crisis, if not still a crisis, of nursing shortages in hospitals. Tell me about that. What was that like? You put this out on the 3rd of March, which, again, you must've been like, "How did we time that so perfectly?"
Curtis Anderson
As is often the case, you don't really get the chance to connect the dots looking forward. So much of it is, as we look back now, believe it or not, there was a period of about four weeks where I actually thought we couldn't have done this at a worse period of time. You were getting really mixed signals in the media about what Covid was going to be. New York was underwater by the time we'd been out for ten days. But you're talking about offering a digital solution that is new to an audience that is traditionally and historically very slow to adopt operational tech, right?
If you're throwing money at cancer to solve that problem clinically, there are all kinds of opportunities to push the boundaries. But operational sickness and logistical sickness they solve in a much different capacity and had historically. And so I was really worried that this was going to go belly up because what you would assume they would trust in that, what the industry would trust in that window is to go back to solutions that had already proven out well, which meant trusting agencies to get them through this a hundred-year apocalyptic storm.
And what ended up happening is that in those first six weeks, so into the middle of April, you start to get dynamics in the media that this was going to be bad. There was a general consensus that this was going to be bigger than what had originally been expected. Stanford had published their data, and you were starting to get refuting evidence there. In that window, we started to see cases in Utah on the home front. We had a conversation with a couple of folks during the legislative session on the hill, and then some folks in a healthcare association here in the state just asking them if there was anything we could do to help.
And that dynamic led to a bunch of phone calls that were more or less Hail Marys. I mean people that were saying, "Look, we've gotta staff 22 of 26 nurses tomorrow, or we go belly up as an entity, what can you do?" And in an early adopter sense, there are often a few things that can exist. You get people who are early adopters who are technically proficient or digital natives, bleeding edge, or you get the other end of the spectrum, which is technically desperate. And that certainly proves to be the case. And so, regarding the method of how we were delivering these things, there weren't ever conversations about whether or not it worked.
It was just literally, can you throw mud against this wall? And then what would happen is as we solved those needs day in and day out for weeks at a time, those conversations would then blossom into a very open, "Hey, remind us how you're doing this." And so you got to demonstrate and then educate, which isn't often the case outside of a moment in which the weather report is that there are big waves coming. Just the timing of that was certainly providential, and half of that is the moment, the luck, or the grace of the moment. The other half of it is how quickly you roll up your sleeves and grab a shovel. There was a lot of shoveling in 2020.
Clint Betts
Sure. And so, how fast has this company grown since then?
Curtis Anderson
It's a great question. So, we keep track of completed shift hours. As the nurse goes to work, the manager gets the help that they need. That's the metric that. From 2020 to the middle of '23, we averaged 67% month-over-month growth. Just a massive... And so you go, you start as this pirate ship, you're on the way, you want to become a Royal Navy, and inevitably that means you end up in this corporate version of puberty, which is just being a crappy navy. And so we went from pirate ship to crappy navy really fast, and there have been pros and cons with that, certainly, that have come out of it.
There are lots and lots of learnings nearly every week that we've been around, but it is one of the most exhilarating rides of my career. As it stands today by market penetration from that perspective, we estimate that we're less than a percent and a half penetrated today, which means that there's just tons of room to go.
Clint Betts
That is incredible. What does a typical day look like for you, Curtis? How do you spend your day?
Curtis Anderson
It has varied from period to period, right? I mean, as a startup founder, you take the beatings in every way that you can get them. Today, things are much more predictable than they ever have been. Certainly, there is still some room to move there, but I will start my mornings in the pool. I swim regularly; that is just a great place to begin mentally. Usually, early, my wife and kids will wake up later in the morning, so I've got a chance to be alone. Anything between about five and 6:30, I'll swim and then come home. I usually try to read, study some sort of just gathering educational, religious.
There's lots of sources there, but spend some time pushing my own boundaries and understanding and then I'll get ready and head to the office. I try to capitalize on intellectually deep meetings between 7 a.m. and about 2 p.m. and then do any kind of communication work thereafter. I'm a big believer that you should be where you are. Email is the greatest threat to that existence, so I will usually keep email to afternoons and evenings. There are certainly communication threads that weren't otherwise. And then when we clean up in the evening, somewhere between 5:30 and seven, head for home, take care of kids and do my best to help Stacey around the house. And then when everybody's in bed, I'll usually pick up, 8:30 to 10 30 or 11, a couple extra hours of Slack, product movement, reviews, anything that I can help facilitate for the team to just hit the ground running on the next day.
Clint Betts
How is AI affecting all this? You started in the middle of Covid, which was incredible, and like you said, maybe even a providential thing for the company, but now AI... And it's not like AI wasn't around when you started this thing, but now AI is kind of prevalent in the mainstream. Every company is thinking about it. How will it affect Nursa?
Curtis Anderson
It's a great question. I think it will affect everyone. I'm certainly not opposed to the hype, but I think often this conversation gets overhyped as well. The practical realities of implementation are much different from, I think, the vision of things to come. So, there are a few ways that AI helps us today. One important facet of Nursa is that we decouple pricing. So, how does a clinician's value get calculated on a shift, and what does the facility's cost get separated independently? Historically, that's been much different. It's been a singular relationship with the job.
What is the value of the job, and what does that mean for the clinician? What does it mean for the facility in terms of cost structure? We leverage a number of machine learning models to facilitate dynamic pricing at the point of the shift, and our commitment to facilities in this is that you will not pay a penny more than it takes to fill the shift. We're pricing it to fill. We can leverage math and machines to help drive that at a moment's notice in real-time in the market for either side. We leverage it from a content perspective as well. So, it is a generation that facilitates a better understanding of a facility or about a particular license type, a specialty in a hospital, for instance and has done great work there both in content and in how we're driving matchmaking. Those are three examples of real uses today. Where I think this can be applicable in the future, as a marketplace company, you act as the market maker. In some sense, we sit in the middle as a bureaucrat, and I think the ways in which we can drive exceptional experiences for either party in the way that we produce the market can have a really long-standing and very lucrative impact for either in the way that they have an experience with the product.
It's an interesting nut to crack, and I'd have to imagine that you're seeing some similar conversations or at least having to rethink some aspects of your own approach. With media and the conversations that you're having here.
Clint Betts
Absolutely. No question about it. I think you're right. Everybody has to think about it, and it's going to affect everyone. Hopefully, it's productive and additive, but not... In my experience, and it sounds like in yours, it's been additive and a really good thing for the company. Where did you land on work from home in office, hybrid, that type of stuff? Where did you land on that kind of debate?
Curtis Anderson
It's an interesting discussion, and I think, as a general rule of thumb, it is often best to avoid polarity of any sort. When we started, there was a period we were hiring because of our cash situation in the beginning; we did not have the luxury of going out to compete with real engineering talent from the coasts in 2018 and 2019. Some interesting notes emerge from that. About a third of our team today is in Utah, a third is elsewhere in the nation, and then a third is everywhere else. So, we have some aspects of all three variants of this at play. At a pirate ship stage, I think it would be very challenging to have a fully remote team.
There are companies who have done it: Automattic, WordPress, and 37signals. I mean, there just is. There are groups who are pioneering that and doing a great job with it. So much of the brainstorming, creative driving agility of just acting fast and quick as a young company, I think, gets hindered in this discussion. Suppose you go fully remote and don't have any previous work experience with the team and on the opportunity. As you grow in team sizes, I think some version of acceptance of all three has to be alive and well. There are certainly benefits to a staff base, a team from a personal perspective, vacation, everyday work, and logistics that matter in the dynamic of being remote.
So our policy today is one day in the office every week, so we have Tuesdays in the office with the team here. On a quarterly basis, we get the US team together so everybody comes in. Then, on an annual basis, we will visit or ensure that the international base gets an in-person meeting as well. We try to save as much of the team dynamic as possible so we can build trust and the foundation for those moments and events. We are very intentional about the way that we plan and structure those activities when we are in person. Otherwise, the dynamic here is that our job is to enable and defend. Enable your ability to get the job done and defend the right that you have to go pursue that.
And as a leadership team, we're incredibly committed to doing that on an individual basis. The more that this discussion starts to swing, the pendulum starts to swing back to in-office. There are certain dynamics that are positive as well beyond the brainstorming; text transmission is really slow. Being able to open the door, walk down the hall, and have a five-minute conversation carries weight, and it can compound, especially as you look at Slack or Team's fatigue, overwhelming inboxes. It can just get overwhelming, and I think there's probably an aspect of AI in the making that can help enable this better across the country.
For us, it's an interesting dynamic because nurses and facility managers in Seattle don't care about what's happening in Salt Lake or Santa Fe. Our markets are hyper-local. Having boots on the ground matters, and another commitment that we make to facility partners is the idea that when you work with nurses, you'll be working with someone who's experiencing at least the same weather that you are today. They likely love the same sports teams that you do and have kids in the same leagues. The internet is an incredible, unapproachable, imaginative beast in the cloud, but it's propped up on chopsticks and manual labor on the ground.
How these things happen is very hyper local, and so it helps in our experience to have boots on the ground everywhere, but it certainly complicates the conversation as a team and how we think about these things. Short story, we have some facet of all three of these, all three of the variants of this discussion in play and have had such since 2020.
Clint Betts
Interesting. Hey, what are you reading, and what reading recommendations would you have for a community of CEOs and leaders?
Curtis Anderson
So, I recently actually put together a pattern that has helped me with reading. As you grow a company, it's been pretty tough. 2020 to 2024 are some of the lowest volume years for reading and just real intense learning of my own. I have found, though, that if I get the hardcover book and I am dedicated to hardcovers, it will be just a thing, just a tick. I love holding a book, and I get the audio version, and I read and listen at the same time. I can work through the material quicker. Most recently finished Supercommunicators, which was a great read. I did a second pass through Adam Grant's Think Again and then several other podcasts. I've got a few notes that way.
Generally, when I'm listening, I will do it at time and a half. There are a few people that I will listen to at full speed, Michael Lewis and Malcolm Gladwell being two of those. I just finished Medal of Honor, which was Malcolm Gladwell's new podcast, and I loved it. Stories of Medal of Honor recipients from a leadership perspective. I just think it carries a ton of weight to hear about these folks who moved and were moved to action in really incredible ways. Even though everything, including the circumstances around them, warranted otherwise, there's just no reason that they should have done that.
So I loved that. That's a sampling of what's been on my shelf this year. Yourself, what have you been reading?
Clint Betts
I just picked up the book called Blitzed. Actually, one of our previous guests recommended it. It has nothing to do with leadership, really. It's World War II and how drugs played a role in the
Curtis Anderson
No kidding.
Clint Betts
In the Third Reich, in particular, in the Blitzkrieg, and all that type of stuff. It's kind of wild, actually. It's really cool. And then I'm reading some other one about the CIA, I can't remember what it's called, but I don't know why I'm in that mode, but that's where I'm going.
Curtis Anderson
What makes material engaging? When you go to pick something up, what keeps you pulled in?
Clint Betts
Well, one, it's got to be good writing, right? Don't you think? You have to have great writing. If it's too dense, I'm going to fall asleep or just move on or that type of stuff. So certainly, number one's got to be great writing, and two, it's just learning about something. I was never taught in school that meth is why the Nazi regime was able to take France in 10 days. That's crazy. And it's just fun. Anything that's like that where I'm like, "Oh, I get to learn something really interesting and new, then I'm excited about it."
Curtis Anderson
New perspectives and a well-told story.
Clint Betts
I totally agree with that.
Curtis Anderson
That's a great summary. There's an aspect of it. How often will you find yourself applying or changing behavior or a habit based on what you read?
Clint Betts
That's a good question. I'm not sure, to be honest with you, how much what I read changes habits in particular. Although I will say, and you probably read this book, Atomic Habits certainly played an enormous role in my thinking, and there's this other one, Anxious Generation, that I read recently. I have four kids, about social media and that type of stuff. I guess it kind of depends on the topic, but Atomic Habits and Anxious Generation had a major effect.
Curtis Anderson
I'll go through a variety of stages. Sometimes, I want to read to push a boundary; sometimes, I want to read or listen to be entertained, and I'll usually know a chapter or two into a book that, "This is the right moment for this book or not." I never think about it as leaving a book; I just say that I'll finish it later, and there's a pretty good healthy backlog of, I'll finish it later.
I also think that we get in a changing behavior or demonstrating merit to changing behavior. You get a lot of overly written concepts, so by the time you get to chapter three or five, I've seen enough examples now. I get the point. I don't need another six chapters of this, and so I always feel bad because the author, I mean, that was blood, sweat, and tears for some period of time, usually years, to do that. But if I feel like I've gotten there too quickly, it will also go into the, we'll finish later. When I've forgotten these examples, I'll come back and read some more.
Clint Betts
There are some books that could have been blog posts.
Curtis Anderson
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, even a white paper, and so you get... That kind of stuff can get old. I mean, your time's the most valuable resource that you have, and so if you're over-investing in content that isn't moving the needle, I try to be conscious of that. From an entertainment perspective, I think we live in the greatest era of storytelling that there has ever been, and there are all kinds of incredible stories to consume. I think there's... Just to introduce kids to the magic of reading, the concept of great stories has been an absolute joy for the last several years.
Clint Betts
I totally agree. I totally agree. Hey, on a leadership front, in your opinion, what are the three most important traits of a leader?
Curtis Anderson
It's an interesting question. Two or three things stand out here for me, Clint. I'm equally interested in your own thoughts, especially given just some of the folks you've had on the show and your own development, which has been fun to watch. I think there's probably... The first is that what you do is who you are. There's an oft-quoted quip about teach always and, when necessary, use words. I think that's at the root of what matters most to me. I read a book by Ben Horowitz wrote a book titled What You Do is Who You Are about culture and how much action speaks.
There was a section of the book dedicated to Genghis Khan and the residual impact of the culture that Genghis Khan established, and he's a fascinating character to learn from in that respect. Brutal in many aspects, but I love the idea that what we do speaks louder than anything that we say. And so that's at the heart of what I think great leadership is: being willing to act and oftentimes going into the fray. There's a bit of risk as you do that. I think another aspect of great leadership for me is someone who understands that stress focuses your attention in ways that good times can't.
I'm very much a believer that leadership is on display in an action-oriented fashion, mostly when things do not go right, and there are lots of people who can shepherd soft-moving or stable ships. I look at that as more of a management principle. Leadership is someone who... Mike Tyson is quoted as saying, "Everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face." And I think real leaders show up, and five minutes later, you get punched in the face. General MacArthur had a quote, "No good strategy survives contact with the enemy." And I think that's the same dynamics. I think Mike Tyson's more elementary about it.
And then I think there's probably one other aspect of this where a leader, good leadership requires and maybe progress from good leadership requires simultaneous optimism, just endless optimism, faith for the future, and pragmatic pessimism to coexist. And so somebody who's hungry to test and temper an idea and just put it to the metal. I love that aspect of watching great leaders work, that there is not a false sense of or even a real sense of arrogance about the way that they approach their work. This is about solving a problem, being committed to that, and demonstrating that you can be your most harsh critic as well as the greatest cheerleader on an idea.
I mean, that to me feels like an enduring sense of optimism that matters in times and in driving. Am I making sense and your own thoughts?
Clint Betts
Absolutely. I love what you do is who you are. I can't think of anything more true than that, right? I had an incredible leader; his name was Brandon Craig. He runs a CEO coaching firm down in Phoenix. And he told me one time, and it stuck with me forever. He says, "Who you are being has an effect outside of you." I was like, "Oh, all right." So if you just stay in bed all day and ignore the world, That actually has an effect outside of you, even though you think it may not, right? Because you got responsibilities and things like that. Or if you walk into a room and you're angry or super negative, that has an effect on that room.
So I always love that whole idea of who you're being has an effect outside of you. And I think Brandon Craig is a genius for putting it that way. Or maybe he wasn't the first one, but he's the one who introduced it to me.
Curtis Anderson
I love it. I think it's a great quote, and you see this idea that what you do has an impact outside of you. As the company has grown in the early days, it was really important that I speak first to help provide direction and indicate what the horizon line looked like. In the last 18 months, it has become increasingly more important that I speak last because you are growing a team, and as that team comes together, you sit in a meeting with people who have incredibly high intellect who are committed to execute on concepts, and if you speak too soon, you limit their ability to push those boundaries themselves. And in some sense, you're taking them out of the batting cage before they've got enough swings.
And so this concept, what you're talking about, it's one example that comes to mind for me of a real way that that has had to shift over the course and growth of Nursa.
Clint Betts
That's very interesting. When did you get to the point where you're speaking last year in a good spot?
Curtis Anderson
It certainly is helpful as a parent and for the team, I think it is beneficial as well. We see real fruits from it, but it requires a conscious... For me, it's a very intentional effort. And our leadership team does a great job of actively listening in that same capacity that I hope I'm emulating each day as we work together.
Clint Betts
Curtis, I can talk to you forever. I want to be respectful of your time. So we end every interview with this question, and that is at CEO.com, we believe the chances one gives is just as important as the chances one takes. When you hear that, who gave you a chance to get you to where you are today?
Curtis Anderson
I've got maybe two thoughts on this. I think recently I had the chance, and this is a bit of the dynamic for me about Utah and why Utah is important. I went to the Golden Spike Monument, and I started to look at Utah's history after visiting there. We're the place that connects the nation with the railroad almost a century later. A little more than a century later, we're the first state to put money on the table to build the freeways, the freeway projects, and the national defense budget. That began here, and that led to connective tissue across the country.
Both of those enabled Utah's education backbone, the internet coming to Utah to be as prolific as it was, and helped create the space that we have today. Both of us to build on. I think it's such an incredible testament. I get to look out my window every day at those railroad tracks. They run right in front of our building, and it's a solid reminder that no man is self-made. That this is, we stand on the shoulders of generations, and I love that we get that gift. It also helps illustrate how many people I think I could answer this question with. There are dozens.
But one of the early indicators for me, one of the early illustrations of this for me, is that in Idaho, there's legislation to help enable kids to work on the farm. It's a work release. You can still graduate from high school, get a half day of work, and get help. It was born out of a need to help facilitate agricultural growth. I had a teacher in high school who graduated with 52 people, so it's a small, small school, but a teacher in high school who leveraged that legislation to turn the entire district's IT support staff into a student-led exercise.
He was the only district IT employee who was over the age of 18. And for four years, you started your freshman year. He would help facilitate through a number of grants. He was always getting grants, but he would help facilitate your ability to become an IT support rep. Then, you could work your way up through any number of positions, but treat it like an organization. His name was Darrell Muck, and he made a great deal of difference in my life in this respect. He enabled a space where I could learn from failures. He facilitated the money and institutional enablement that I needed to educate myself about what computers were, what the internet was, and why it mattered, why it would matter for years to come. And set me on a course, be able to work, to solve problems at the capacity that we can today. And I'm most grateful that I get to stand on Darrel Muck's shoulders.
Clint Betts
It's incredible. Curtis, thank you so much, my friend. So great talking to you.
Curtis Anderson
You bet. Thank you, Clint. Stay out of trouble.
Edited for readability.