Drew Glover Transcript
Clint Betts
Drew, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's great to meet you. Great to have you on here. You are the general partner or a general partner at Fiat Ventures. Tell me about Fiat Ventures. You've had quite the career so far. Everything I've been reading about you is just fascinating, but let's start with Fiat Ventures and how you came to be where you are right now.
Drew Glover
Yeah, so Fiat Ventures was very much inspired by Fiat Growth. So, I actually oversee two separate companies, Fiat Growth, and Fiat Ventures, and I'm lucky enough to have co-founders on each. For Fiat Growth, we're a growth consultancy that is really focused on the FinTech space. We've worked with over 200 companies and driven over a couple of billion dollars in revenue, and you can think of us as a full-service marketing agency. We've been around for five and a half years, but the one thing that, or many things, make us unique, but one that makes us super unique, is from day one, we only worked with companies that we thought were invest-able businesses and we strategically asked for the right to invest in the majority of those businesses. So, it literally means we contractually get the right to invest in the next funding round.
And over the years, as we kept growing the business, we really started, we realized that not only is Fiat Growth this incredible growth consultancy, but it's also this incredible due diligence arm. In 2021, we actually founded Fiat Ventures, which is our venture fund, and we raised our first fund, which was $25 million, to take advantage of those rights to invest. So we started raising funds in 2021, closed our $25 million venture fund in 2022, and now, sitting here in 2024, we've invested in over 20 companies. Around 60% of those businesses are companies that we previously worked with at Fiat Growth because we got to work in the trenches with founders to understand founder dynamics and the growth trends they were seeing. And when we saw something special, we basically said, "Hey, we need to lean in with an investment here." And it's really kind of created this idea of reverse engineering venture, where instead of sitting down with a founder getting a coffee and then investing, we get to work with that founder and that team for three months, all the way to a year, prior to investment.
Clint Betts
Well, that's what I'm so fascinated about. What you're doing in your model is the combination of those two things. Because, like you said, most VCs, it's like, hey, we want to invest. We'll write a check. Maybe we'll take a board seat so we'll see you once a quarter. Sometimes, they don't even do that if it's an early-stage VC; it's just like, hey, just send the updates.
You are actually rolling up your sleeves, working with these companies and working with these teams. So, one, it gives you an incredible advantage to see how they work, how they tackle challenges, and all that type of stuff, and you get to shape the product in a lot of ways, particularly their messaging. I mean, that must be... I mean, so many people have tried this studio model, right? It's worked, and I know Uber came out of this studio model or something like that, but this feels cleaner than even that. I really like it.
Drew Glover
Yeah, it's a little bit different than an accelerator; we're not competing with a YC. We want the ability to be an extension of your team. We want the ability to invest in companies that are of equal importance to help build a company. And so when we're leaning in with an investment, we're not just underwriting it from the standpoint of whether we believe this founder in this business and this market are perfectly aligned with timing. But we also want to make it so we're investing in companies that we can actually add value to. And so when we get to work with a company and see all the incredible momentum and trends that are leading us to want to lean in with investment, we're equally excited to say, "Great, once we put this money in, we're going to be able to team up with that team and founder on a deeper level and ensure the success of the business."
It also gives us the ability to really bring different investors around the table that can also add the type of, call it, special sauce that we add. I think what we've seen in the market over the last five to 10 years, even 20 years, is most VCs; what they deliver to a company is simply capital. And I believe where the market is headed now is as a venture capitalist, you need to have something extra beyond capital to win your way onto a really competitive cap table. And so we take a lot of pride in being able to drive so much more than just capital to a cap table, but all the other strategic pieces that drive that business to scale in super smart and cost-efficient ways.
Clint Betts
I absolutely agree with that. I don't think you can just write checks anymore and pretend you have a Rolodex that will come into play at some point down the road. You've really got to be beneficial to the founders and to the people leading it. I mean, it is a little bit harder to get money now than it was previously, but I still think if you're going to last in the venture capital game, you're going to have to do something like what you are doing, which is really incredible.
Drew Glover
It's true. A lot of businesses, three, four, or five years ago, were very much in the momentum market, where everyone's thought was that we'd just solve problems with money because the rounds that were being raised were so large. Now that the market's really comes down to, I'd say, just more realistic standards, there's less money being invested, which is forcing founders and teams to build their business in a much smarter, more efficient way. Therefore, to my point, a second ago, a venture capital team, a venture capital firm, needed to be able to drive more than just capital; it's because these founders are looking for every competitive advantage to prolong their runway. Three, four years ago, you have 12 months, great, we'll just go raise another 10 million, 20 million, 100 million. People were raising $20 million rounds without a product just to kill their team.
Now folks are scrambling around trying to raise $3 million and try to make it so that it lasts them 36 months instead of six months. And so the mindset, the entrepreneurial mindset, I'm actually as a venture investor and someone that's building companies, I'm really excited about because entrepreneurs are thinking like entrepreneurs again, versus just saying, "Oh, we'll just go out in a couple of months and solve the problems that we're facing with more money, versus optimizing a business foundation to really scale in the smartest possible way."
Clint Betts
But is it easier to raise money if you say it's an AI company?
Drew Glover
That is definitely helpful right now in this market. I will say, though, that I am the biggest believer in AI. I think we're at one of those inflection points when the internet was founded, like when the iPhone was taking off. I truly believe we're in one of those transformative moments.
I will say that I think some of the things that people are over-focusing on is trying to invest in the next open AI versus focusing on their existing portfolio and ensuring that their entire investment portfolio is making sure they are AI optimized. All these different investments have unique, focused go-to-market strategies or products that try to solve a specific problem. We need to make sure that we, as venture investors and money managers, have to make sure we're looking inward at what our portfolio already looks like to ensure that our founders are thinking about what AI can do for their business to optimize it from a capital-efficient standpoint. How can I make it so I can do more with less? But also, at the same time, how can I make it so I can continue to scale up my product and my business to the masses if we're a B2B company, B2C company, or B2B2C company?
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah, and I wonder in particular, well, one, I have two questions. One, you focus on FinTech, and I would love to get a sense of why FinTech, of all the other industries inside of tech. And you've probably done other things as well, but it seems like the strategy is entirely around FinTech. And on top of that, my question following up on the AI part is, man, AI could really transform that industry. What do you think that's going to look like? How do you think that's going to evolve?
Drew Glover
So, I'll answer the first question, and I'll have to go back in time a little bit to give you the reason why I got into FinTech. However, I grew up in the inner city of Oakland, California, and East Oakland. I had exposure to a lot of underserved communities, underserved communities that had all the upside in the world but not all the access in the world. And I believe that through the idea of earning money, saving money, and investing money, FinTech has the greatest upside and the largest impact on future generations. And in the world, we live in today, where it's the easiest it's ever been to start a company, earn money, save money, and invest money, we not only have to make sure that we are thinking from a literacy standpoint, how do we make it so people understand what is possible and how do we engage with it? But also, from the standpoint of making sure that the right technologies are being built that aren't predatory to the people who need the help the most, they are inspiring folks to continue to build their financial future and their financial health. And sorry, what was the second question?
Clint Betts
Just AI. How do you think AI transforms FinTech? I mean, it's going to affect every single industry, but that one in particular with the potential for fraud, all of that type of stuff, you got to protect against AI as much as you've got to build with it, it seems like.
Drew Glover
Yes, and so beyond that, AI has such an important role, but also such a huge responsibility across the specific communities that I'm talking about. 80% of America doesn't have $500 in case of an emergency in their savings account. And with the technology that's being built around finance, around FinTech right now, it is one that has the most data out of any other industry. And through AI, we can use that data for good, and we can use it for bad. My goal is to make it so I'm constantly investing and working with companies that are using it for the best possible outcome. And that's everything from taking someone's financial data and being able to recommend different products in different ways to taking their money and better investing it, better saving it, better earning.
It's also the one that's going to make it so we are using data for good. As I talked about the word predatory, you talk about payday lending, you talk about micro-lending, you talk about the entire lending market. There are a lot of folks out there who are very vulnerable and need a lot of financial help. We have to make sure that we are not only building products but also utilizing their data to empower them to make the right decisions.
A lot of this comes back to the type of companies that are being founded and the type of founders that are building these businesses, and making sure that the people that are building products for the most vulnerable populations are also the ones that understand those population's true issue. And we're not just building products to make billion-dollar outcomes, but we're doing it for positive impacts, as well as large outcomes.
And I actually take a lot of pride in just being a black VC that grew up in the community that I believe needs to get access to the best innovation, by the founders and the businesses that are building the most responsibly.
Clint Betts
Yeah. How much venture capital goes to black founders every year?
Drew Glover
An embarrassing number.
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah, it's-
Drew Glover
Well below 2%.
Clint Betts
I was going to say below one, even. So yeah, if it's below two.
Drew Glover
It's below one for-
Clint Betts
So that is fascinating.
Drew Glover
Yeah.
Clint Betts
It's below one for women? Is that what it is?
Drew Glover
No, it's below one for minority GPs. So me specifically being a GP of a venture fund, a founder and a GP of a venture fund, that is sub 1%.
Clint Betts
Why do you think that is?
Drew Glover
Within the VC space, it's a network that breeds networks' type of space. And so I was very privileged to grow up in East Oakland, California, while at the same time being put in private schools, at the same time, being good enough at football to be able to get the ability to play football at UC Berkeley and get to one of the best public universities in the entire world. And so less than, I believe, it's still this: less than 2% of all of UC Berkeley is African-American. And so the stats that I'm sharing right now are consistent across all the networks that ultimately get into this space. I just happened to be one of the lucky ones who both worked hard and got a little bit lucky along the way to find my way into these rooms and be able to take advantage of them.
But yeah, at the end of the day here, if you're building a company and you're a team of five and someone says, "We're hiring someone new," the instinct is, is I'm just going to look into my network and hire someone else. And if it's five white people, five Asian people, or five black people, the odds are that the next hire is going to look like the rest of the team. And so we just need to be better at welcoming people into the community and being really thoughtful and conscious about making sure that the people that are deploying money look like the problems we're trying to solve and come from the problems that we're trying to solve, and come from the socioeconomic backgrounds. Because I take a lot of pride in my fellow GPs, Marcos Fernandez and Alex Harris. We both take so much pride in being able to understand how we have a deep understanding of how to solve problems because we come from those problems. And if that connection, that thread isn't there, you're basically trying to solve problems based on ChatGPT research.
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think of the trajectory of DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion? And the fact that it was so universally accepted in 2018 was such a big push, and now it seems like the trajectory is going the opposite way. What are your feelings on that, and how are companies that you are investing in thinking about it?
Drew Glover
Yeah. Well, as you know, from the investment standpoint, you see it in the public markets. There are different waves, there are different trends, and when the trend is humming, everyone's behind it.
The DEI wave was one that I look back on, and I'm frankly frustrated with it because the second we saw that wave was the second I looked at everyone around me and said, "This is a wave, but it's going to die." Historically, when people are rallying behind and around specifically, such as a racial revolution, it tends to be a spike and then a big decline. And this one was actually inspired by the death of George Floyd, and it raised a ton of conversations, but it also forced a lot of people to confront it, and a lot of folks confronted it in different ways. Some were nonprofits that were able to raise more money than they had ever raised in their entire lives because there were so many corporates that were saying, "We need to act on this because the people are saying we need to act on it." You saw VCs open up separate VC funds to say, "We're exclusively going to invest in black GPs or black founders or female founders." And so it was very exciting for a long time, and I think a lot of really great money flowed to really great causes.
What I'm most frustrated about is now that that wave has passed, it's not becoming a consistent cause for everyone. And we're seeing a lot of the minority GPs and minority founders going back to look for that money to raise that next round or that next fund, and the money's just not there because it was earmarked for a certain cause that has now passed, that was part of a trend and a wave that is now gone. And DEI was a proponent of that. It was kind of tertiary, but we saw all the huge corporate companies, that all the big tech companies building out infrastructure there, not only for their front-facing brand but for their internal employees of thousands of people that were looking for a lifeline to help them kind of navigate frankly, a world that didn't look like them. And now we're even seeing those programs die across multiple different tech companies.
So I think it's super sad, and I just hate the fact that as a black person, I don't like the fact that I feel like really bad moments like George Floyd need to happen for those waves to hit. And it's not something that is a much more organic type of, call it a good moment, an inspiring moment, that pushes these trends into existence.
Clint Betts
What does a typical day look like for you?
Drew Glover
Oh, man. A typical day; I'll just be very literal in that answer. Wake up at 5:30 AM. I go to work out because that's the only quiet time I have in the day. I have a two-year-old, and she will steal from me if I don't wake up before her. So, I get my workout in. I typically come home, eat breakfast with my two-year-old and my wife, and then I head to work. And then that is really a mixture of two things, as you know.
Between Fiat Growth and Fiat Ventures, I get to wear two hats, but all of it kind of drives back to Ventures at the end of the day, where I am one, working with companies that we're building that we have that right to invest in and we're tracking the trends and the success of them. Not all of them are wildly successful, so they are also in the trenches with companies that are trying to figure a lot of shit out. And then, on top of that, I'm typically talking to anywhere between two and six different founders who are building businesses that I am connecting with because either a VC friend of mine told me to chat with them or coming from just my general network of different types of companies based on trends that we're looking at.
And then, obviously, there are a lot of internal conversations. We're constantly talking about the trends we're seeing. Because of our exposure to Fiat Growth and Fiat Ventures, we have this unique vantage point to be able to see a lot of trends as they're coming around corners. And we want to make sure that as we see trends, we speak them into existence. So we're constantly having internal conversations about what we see coming next and what kind of next wave of companies is going to be the next big, exciting unicorn. So, for us, I typically get home somewhere between 5:30 and 6:00, taking over for our nanny to hang out with my kid all the way through dinner and bed. And then I typically pull out my computer again with my wife as we're watching some TV. Right now I'm watching this show, Alone. I don't know if you've seen Alone, but it's-
Clint Betts
Is it good? I haven't seen it.
Drew Glover
It is fun. It's ultimately, 10 contestants that live out in the wilderness and whoever stays the longest wins half a million dollars. And they're all like survivalists, they get to bring 10 items and it's typically around 10 episodes. People typically stay somewhere between 50 and 70 days and they're building their homes and everything.
Clint Betts
Oh my gosh.
Drew Glover
And there's no camera crews, they're taping themselves. But it is a fun watch and I am like, I fully believe, and I always look at my wife. I was like, "I could stay out there for a month." My wife thinks I can stay out there for a week, but I'm so positive. I've seen it every season. It's good.
Clint Betts
Oh, I love that. What do you read? What reading recommendations would you have for founders?
Drew Glover
I have some good ones right now. I've just read The Creative Act by Rick Rubin, maybe for the third time. If you are a creative that is-
Clint Betts
That's a great book.
Drew Glover
It's great. A creative that is really trying to turn complicated feelings, thoughts, and notions into very simple explanations. He does an incredible job at it and pulls from all these really incredible artists and creatives that he's worked with throughout his life. Another one is Unreasonable Hospitality, which is Will Guidara, who was the founder of Eleven Madison, which has been the best restaurant in the world for a couple of years. But he did it in his 20s and talked about his entire journey through the restaurant industry, all the way through getting Eleven Madison to the number one restaurant in the world. He specifically talks about, as he calls it, this concept of having unreasonable hospitality, which is what got him to create this three Michelin star experience.
Clint Betts
That's incredible. I haven't read that one. I need to check that one out.
Drew Glover
Oh, it's good.
Clint Betts
As a leader, you see a lot of leaders, and you are a leader yourself, but what are the three most important traits of a leader?
Drew Glover
That's a really great question. I think one is being really decisive. Two is one, being really patient, and three, understanding the fact that you're a better person for having smarter people around you at all times.
Clint Betts
What do you wish you had known early in your career that you know now? If you could go back and give yourself advice or those who are ten years behind, what would that be?
Drew Glover
It's more important to know what you want instead of trying to chase what other people want.
Clint Betts
Tell me more about that, that's fascinating.
Drew Glover
Yeah. Early in my career, I found myself comparing myself to a lot of other people, and I convinced myself on many different occasions that that person, what they're doing, what they want, is something that I should want because of what their job was or what they were doing, or something they were doing better than me. But throughout my career, I realized that the more I understood what I wanted, the more successful I was because I was laser-focused on getting there. But I always say it, keep the blinders on, keep those horse blinders on, because the horse that you see in the race that wins is the one that's most focused on the finish line, and everyone that's taking advantage of that peripheral vision is the ones that get distracted and lack focus.
And so early on in my career, I just found myself constantly comparing myself to other folks and it constantly blinded me from what was most important. And I probably... It took me to at least age of 30 for me to really hone in on what I want because I was spending so much time chasing other people's wants.
Clint Betts
That's incredible; I love that. What products, apps, and tools can you just not live without? What are these... We all have our only little things that we're constantly doing. What are yours?
Drew Glover
I mean, yeah, there's some that are obvious. I can't live without Slack. I can't live without ChatGPT right now. I've basically taken ChatGPT and trained it on my own voice. Right now I'm currently obsessed with making it so ChatGPT can write content for me. And so I'm constantly trying to train it to almost be like a Drew GPT of sorts.
Clint Betts
That's cool.
Drew Glover
So I find myself spending a lot of time constantly training it through my tone, my emotion, transitional sentences that I'm obsessed with, like hooks, all that stuff that you'd see in a LinkedIn post or a Twitter post or even like a newsletter. And then outside of that, I've been using [inaudible 00:25:01] a lot, which is a platform that basically makes it so you can take video of any kind and turn it into all these different snippets. I'm a big believer in social media, specifically LinkedIn. Everyone's just leaning towards video now versus written work. So I'm constantly trying to find ways to make it so I can turn really great video content into really informative snippets that can be posted across all social networks, as I believe that's a huge lead generator, lead magnet, and revenue driver for businesses.
Clint Betts
I'm sure you've noticed this, but CEOs and leaders and people who run funds are being asked to comment and to have an opinion on things that have nothing to do with their funds, their companies, or all these other things. Right? We've got an election in the United States, we've got elections in 25 other countries this year. The economy is what it is, and people are feeling like inflation, but it's not maybe as bad. There's a million things going on. I don't really... I mean, I'd be happy to hear your opinion on that, but I'm more interested in what you think about the responsibility that society seems to be bestowing on leaders to talk about and speak about basically what's happening culturally in day-to-day life.
Drew Glover
I'll tell you one thing that I've learned through my journey of being a VC: You really get this superpower. You fine-tune this superpower to be able to talk about anything in a very educated way, and it's for one simple reason. Really good VCs are talking to 2,000 different founders in businesses every single year. You get to your 10,000 hours quickly of seeing founders and business models and quickly assessing if those are the type of founders and business models that match where the market is today. And so when you run into these different maybe conflicts, maybe election cycles, maybe candidates, maybe anyone, it's a very similar type of approach, in terms of being able to get a real-time assessment that's mixed with quantitative and qualitative experience, while also having this really fine-tuned instinct, because you practice it so many times on a day-over-day, month-over-month, year-over-year basis.
So I'm not going to sit here and say that I believe every single VC should be screaming from the rooftops in these moments, but I find a lot more excitement going to my fellow VCs to talk about these types of things, versus other people in my world, because we get so many reps at seeing people trying to build generational world-changing businesses. And we say no to the majority of them. So I know that all of us have this very critical eye on what is good and what is bad.
Clint Betts
It does seem like VCs, for whatever reason, and maybe it's just this election cycle or whatever, have become more politically involved than ever. I mean, you saw Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz did a podcast, kind of stating their preference and who they're going to donate to. You see those All-In podcast guys doing the same type of thing. You see Elon doing his thing. What do you make of that?
Drew Glover
Well, I do think we're in this world of, again, from VC specifically, is it's more than just having a track record frankly, to win deals, frankly, to get in the conversation to do your job the right way and get as much exposure to investment opportunities as possible. You can't just keep writing blog posts. You can't just keep hiring new venture investors. I see a lot of funds even fully raised because the GP or the founder has a million followers on Twitter, and all that individual does is talk about tech companies and, therefore, gets 500 inbound requests for investment opportunities on a quarter-over-quarter basis.
So, I actually see this. I'm a big believer right now that where media is headed is a personal brand, which is a trumping business brand. And I think we're starting to see a lot of that from the VC space, of their really pushing their personal brand to make it so their business continues to be successful. In terms of what their specific political views are, that's one thing I'm not going to really speak to, but I will say that they are definitely backing their... I believe that personal brand right now is king, and I'm seeing a lot more of them making sure they're getting their personal views and personal brand out there so they stay top of mind to do their job the best way they possibly can.
Clint Betts
It's kind of part of the job now, right? Even for VCs, it seems like it's a big part of the job. You almost have to build a media company for yourself and for your fund in order to be successful in that space now, which is fascinating. And obviously, that hasn't historically been the case for them. You used to be able to get away with a newsletter, even like an annual letter. You don't get to do that anymore, which is fascinating. But even companies, and I wonder if you're seeing this inside of companies, that they're also thinking about how do we tell our own story? You're exactly right about the future of media being like everybody has their own channel, their own voice-based around them. It's not controlled by three networks or a couple of corporations. We all have this voice now. And as to how companies build, particularly when you're talking to them in the early stages, do you guys have those types of conversations?
Drew Glover
Yeah, but I think it's tracking with companies as well. And I think it's a little bit less so right now for direct-to-consumer businesses; just because your personal brand as a CPO or a CEO is all over social media, it's a little bit different to get 100 new subscribers to your money management tool. But if you're like an enterprise B2B founder or executive team, and all of a sudden you're able to get three or four deals a year, enterprise deals through your personal brand, that is a business-changing growth channel.
So, as a marketer through Fiat Growth, we're a full stack agency, affiliate partnership, strategic partnership, and performance marketing. Standing up your MarTech stack, creative services. We're constantly deploying capital into the market, and we're constantly looking for really creative growth channels to stand up. All the ones that I just laid out will always exist in one shape or form, but people are looking for cheap growth channels, and I truly believe for a lot of these B2B founders and executives, there's a huge opportunity for them to turn their personal brand into a growth channel for their business. And I think we can all say that I would much rather hear from Tim Cook about the next iPad or iPod or whatever their next product is, or headphones or VR equipment, versus hearing a blog post from the Apple brand.
Clint Betts
Yeah, [inaudible 00:32:26].
Drew Glover
Because I want to get inside the mind of the leader of the problem that they're solving, and if you do that in a very thoughtful way and even take it a step further, tie it back to your personal individual-ness like, hey, I woke up this morning, looked my daughter in the eye, and she told me, "Hand me the VR.." Something, some type of connection there. It turns into a really powerful story and a very powerful ad that feels really organic, versus it being this produced moment that most brands are constantly trying to do.
Clint Betts
Something I'm hearing a lot about is this affiliate marketing and affiliate... Particularly over the past six months to a year, founders and CEOs and so many people were like, how do I set this up? What is this? Can you explain it? If you just briefly, what advice would you give people around that in particular?
Drew Glover
Yeah, I mean, I personally think affiliate marketing is one of the most important, and what falls into the importance is one of the most cost-efficient channels you can be a part of. Imagine... I'm trying to think here, trying to think of a really good example. Imagine you're TikTok, and you're looking to bring on your next 200 million users. And you go to a new bank like Chime that's got 20 million users, and you say, "Hey Chime, I'll give you guys $2 for every single user you send us." And Chime's like, "Perfect, that sounds like it's going to net me some good revenue. Therefore, we're going to send a push notification every single week to our entire user base saying, "Sign up for TikTok and get $2." That is a very simple affiliate marketing deal. But the good thing is, as TikTok, I'm not having to spend $10,000 on Facebook with the hope people press on my app. I'm only paying Chime if and only when that Chime user signs up for TikTok. So I'm paying whenever the action happens. Therefore, you're deploying capital in a cost-efficient way.
Another very simple example, it's very similar to influencer marketing. As you see a lot of your influencers on LinkedIn or even TikTok saying, "Go buy this bracelet." Odds are that influencer's getting paid a flat amount of money every single time you buy that bracelet because they sent you that special link that only they have. And so it typically works really well for a lot of direct-to-consumer businesses. We see it a lot in e-commerce; we see it a lot in direct-to-consumer tech. In B2B businesses, it's a little bit different. They typically do it around what they call account-based marketing, where I'm sure you've been on LinkedIn and they say, "Hey, if you sign up for a demo, we'll send you this Yeti water bottle," where it's a little bit different where there's still an incentive, but it's a little bit more, we know exactly who we want to sell to, therefore we're going to send ads to exactly that individual and we're going to give you this incentive for you to take advantage of it.
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah. Finally, we end every interview with the exact same question, and that is, at CEO.com, we believe the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes. When you hear that, who gave you a chance to get you to where you are today?
Drew Glover
I'm going to give a shout-out to... Okay, so there's an individual named Judson Griffin, who was a sales manager at a company called Namely, which was in the HR tech space. Unfortunately, the company didn't have the unicorn outcome that we were all hoping for, but at the time, I had spent the majority of my career doing a number of different jobs. I was really trying to fall into my perfect space, and he hired me as an account executive there, basically a sales rep. He took a chance on me, knowing that I had no background in it, but basically, he was like, "You know what? I feel like you got that, that thing." And so I was able to come on, and it was really the first time in my career where I realized I was really, really, really good at something. And it propelled my career into what it is today and gave me the confidence it needed.
So there's a lot of people that are hiring people all the time, and so many times people are not taking a chance on an individual. They are just going based on whatever their LinkedIn profile says. So, shout out to Judson Griffin and shout out to all the people out there that are taking chances on people that they believe have something really special in them and want to give them the chance to prove that.
Clint Betts
I love it. Drew, thank you so much for coming on. Seriously, it's been a pleasure.
Drew Glover
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Edited for readability.