Ania Smith Transcript
Clint Betts
Ania, thank you so much for coming on the show. You're the CEO of TaskRabbit, but you've had an incredible career at a variety of different places, which we can get into. But tell us how you became the CEO of TaskRabbit and what TaskRabbit is if someone somehow doesn't know.
Ania Smith
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. Let me tell you a little bit first about TaskRabbit. So, we're a digital platform that really connects people to very skilled and reliable taskers from their local community so that they can have their problems at home solved. So, primarily really focusing on home services. And so whether it's needing someone to help you assemble a piece of furniture, clean out your backyard, hang up a photo, mount your TV, or anything like that, we're here to really help you. And we've been around for quite some time. It's definitely very popular here in the United States, but we're in eight countries overall, so it is quite a journey, and it's been really fun to be here.
I got here about four years ago, and I can't really believe that it's been that long. And this is after coming from Uber, which is, of course, another big marketplace. Prior to that, I spent some time on Airbnb. So, I've been in a space of marketplaces for quite some time, especially when it comes to marketplaces with people. It's been a fascinating journey, and there is a lot to learn. It's still a fairly young industry, so there is a lot still for us to figure out.
Clint Betts
What did you bring from your experience at Uber and Airbnb to TaskRabbit? What did you learn from those that you're now applying?
Ania Smith
So, so much. I felt when I was at Airbnb, it was sort of still kind of early days, so we are all learning a lot. I have focused my early career really on a supply side of the business, so it was hosts at Airbnb, and couriers at Uber Eats, and so I definitely have a soft spot for taskers at TaskRabbit.
But really, what I have learned is a couple of things. One, marketplaces are really super or pose really challenging problems to solve. And so we've been doing a lot of things thinking about how to drive both sides of the marketplace simultaneously. So, it's different than maybe traditional business models in which you can focus on driving the customers or driving your inventory and something else. This is real-time, so if we're trying to send or find new customers in Seattle that really need cleaning, we better have a lot of taskers in Seattle who can provide those services. And so, in a marketplace, you really can't look at averages and totals or things in aggregate. You really have to go down to the local level, especially when it comes to the type of platform that we serve because it really is important whether it is in that neighborhood at that time or for that price. We have someone who can help you out. So, we've been spending a lot of time really thinking about how we optimize the match between the client and a tasker. And really, that comes from my work at Airbnb and at Uber Eats.
Clint Betts
You know what's interesting? I imagine that you have just an incredible amount of data, again, TaskRabbit being so popular. How are you thinking about the future of AI, integrating AI into your company, somehow using that data for an even better customer experience than even currently?
Ania Smith
So, obviously we've been using large language models for quite some time because really, it's the foundational core of how we think about that match between the client and the tasker. So it is an immense amount of data and we have to be able to really think through and provide the best opportunity for any client to find the best tasker or to have their job done by someone who is most qualified.
Quality is really important to us, and so really using AI to find that match is core to what we're trying to do, and that's going to continue to advance. And so it's everything but just getting more information from the client about the type of job that they need to be done with, how big the TV is, or what kind of wall are you putting it on? Using that data to find taskers that have the most experience with that kind of job is really quite revolutionary because it really makes it so that the job is of much higher quality than otherwise we could have done on our own. So that's sort of the first thing, and it's really the core of our platform and what we're working on.
But of course, there are a lot of other opportunities, especially when it comes to driving efficiencies, and that's everywhere across the business, whether it's within customer service and how we can really serve our customers better by providing more information by having more information available at our fingertips, to really ensuring that the agents that are working through that is being able to leverage information in a much quicker way and are much more equipped to answer questions, all the way through to how we think about using AI within marketing and storytelling, how we think about using it within our engineering organization. And really, there isn't a space where we don't feel this is a technology that's going to really help to pivot us in a much faster direction.
Clint Betts
How have you thought about hybrid work versus remote work versus everybody in office, as every CEO and leader has been kind of dealing and addressing with this issue, where did you land on all of that?
Ania Smith
So, I wasn't here right when COVID hit in March 2020. I was at Uber Eats, and that was a crazy time in and of itself, and I know it was crazy here, too. By the time I joined in August 2020, the offices were, or everyone was working remotely. So, we made the conscious decision to close our offices and start hiring remotely. It was a really also challenging hiring environment, especially as we got into '21 and '22. And we felt that we would have access to much broader talent, not just being sort of forced into one city.
That said, over the last four or five years, we've also realized that spending time together in person leads to the ability for teams, in particular, to collaborate, which I think is really hard to replicate online or really hard to do over Google Meets or Zoom or what have you. And so we have been spending much more time together. Right now, it's getting together in the sort of rented spaces for a short amount of time, and we're definitely looking and thinking about how we can continue to expand on that. I know just by working with my own team, and I meet with them in person quite frequently, that when we spend time in those sessions where we have more time to dig deeper into some thoughts or ideas or plans that we have, we come out much stronger and better on the other side. And so I want to replicate that for other teams within the organization as well.
Clint Betts
How do you think about leadership now, given the various places you've been and now being CEO of TaskRabbit, what defines a good leader for you? What have you learned and have seen that's working well now?
Ania Smith
So, I think maybe for some people, it's a very natural talent to be a leader. I certainly don't think that's me, and there's a lot that we can learn to become better leaders. And I think for me, there are really few things that stand out. One is, for any leader in a tech company, but really any company, you have to spend a lot of time with the customers and really listen to the challenges that they have and really understand what it is that we can do to try to solve some of those challenges. But it's very easy to start sort of falling into the solutions trap, and really learning how to learn, listening, and just understanding the problem, I think, is really important. As leaders, we often tend to start to find solutions. Naturally, that is something that I do. And so I've tried really hard to instead spend the majority of my time listening and understanding the problem.
I think it's also really important to be smart about the risks that you take. One of our core values is to be bold, and it's really important to be able to have some sort of a mix of risk that you're willing to, depending on a stage of the company that you're in, that you're willing to take, and it might not pay off. And sometimes that becomes very expensive, but I strongly believe that if we're not taking very many risks, we really risk very slow growth and a very sort of hard way to push ourselves outside and really, really be able to get to our mission. And so, being able to take calculated risks is really important.
And then finally, and this is really sort of personal to me, finding the right team and being able to identify the right leaders around me has been critical. So, people who are willing to be honest with me, who are willing to push back on me, and who are willing to provide that really critical feedback have been super helpful. It helps us think about how we operate as a team and build trust amongst each other. And I think that is critical because if we can't do that within our senior leadership team, it's very hard to expect the rest of the organization to operate that way. So, building the right team is really important.
Clint Betts
What does a typical day look like for you as CEO?
Ania Smith
No day is typical. I wish that there were, but I start off my day... Well, I don't wish that they were, honestly, because when they're not typical, I end up learning a lot more. Honestly, I find when I'm uncomfortable, it's not that fun in a moment, but it really pushes me to, I think, I hope, make better decisions and learn along the way.
And so I really do start my day by, and this is something that I've been only trying for the last year or so. I don't know if you know Marshall Goldsmith, but he's one of these coaches, and he has this process of daily questions. And I have been trying a lot to say, "Hey, am I set up for the day?" Just take five minutes every day to write down the key things that I'm going to try to accomplish this day relative to my weekly goals or maybe my monthly goals or whatever they may be, but just so that I'm not as reactive and have some time and room in my schedule to really think proactively about long-term. So I do a little bit of that.
I read a lot of news first thing in the morning. I try to work out; I try to see my kids who are getting out the door. They're at an age now where they can hopefully, on their own, get themselves out the door, but it's always nice to spend a little bit of time with them. And then the day itself is just a lot of context-switching, right? So I can spend a lot of time thinking about the long-term strategy and also look at or be in a product review to understand some of the new products that we are shipping out. I spend a lot of time with some of our partners, of course, especially IKEA, and a lot of time really on people development and really spending time with our customers and our taskers. So, I often meet with them as well just to understand what they're up to and what's working for them and what isn't.
Clint Betts
What is that partnership with IKEA like, and what's it been like to work with them as a company?
Ania Smith
IKEA is a fascinating, fascinating company. It's been around for 80 years, obviously. It's actually two different companies; it has a very complex corporate structure. It is also owned by a foundation, and at the end of the day, a majority of its profits are returned to the business so that the business can continue to grow and evolve. So, launch new products, go to new markets, and so on. But really, a large chunk of it also goes to the foundation, which is really focused primarily on either climate change initiatives or poverty. And within poverty, specifically around children. And so it's been really rewarding to work for a company that is so very focused on giving back to its communities and then giving back to many people who are less privileged.
They've been a great partner in many ways, but obviously, in some sense, they're also a very big company, so they work slightly differently than we do. And so trying to manage that and navigate that process, sometimes it's challenging, but it's also an opportunity to understand how super profitable it is, obviously. And sometimes we say that IKEA is sort of in its own sphere, just one of a kind. It doesn't have very many competitors that are completely vertically integrated and international and really so focused on serving many people and starting with price and quality. It's been really fascinating to learn from them.
Clint Betts
What do you read? What reading recommendations would you have for us?
Ania Smith
So in my very spare time, of which there just isn't that much, I enjoy reading; I would say reading both things that are fiction and also some things that are business focused because you never know. So, right now, I'm reading the, I don't know if you follow, but Nicholas Kristof is a reporter of the New York Times, and I've been following his work for quite some time. So I'm really enjoying reading Chasing Hope, but I have a lovely one from Ketanji Jackson on my night table, so I'm hoping to get to that next. I also just love reading biographies, and so there's been many, whether it's Katharine Graham from some old biographies to Trevor Noah, to more contemporary work; I find it really fascinating, especially if we're lucky enough and they're being read by the author themselves. I think that that's really exciting. And then I read fiction as well, of course. Let's see, I love Gentleman in Moscow. I think this is a surprising story, but it's really fun to find and read about a different time period and so on.
Clint Betts
Oh, yeah. 2014 was kind of fascinating. I'd love your perspective on it because you're kind of on the ground dealing with economic trends and macro and micro trends at the same time. It's really interesting. So as 2024 played out and we had this inflation, we had anxiety around the election, I mean, all the various things that kind of came with 2024. How are you thinking about 2025, and how do you think it is going to compare to what we just went through?
Ania Smith
Oh, if I knew, I think I would get paid a lot more. And I got to tell you, I mean, generally speaking, something like 80% of economists predicted that we would be in a recession this year, and obviously, it's the end of the year, and we're nowhere near a recession. So, I am by no means a predictor. I do think that we're continuing to lean into the uncertainty. I do not know exactly how much of what's being said is bluff versus how much is real when it comes to things like tariffs. Obviously, the impact of what may happen if Trump does impose huge tariffs either on our neighbors to the north and south or elsewhere will play into inflation, I believe. I do think just the most recent job numbers came out really strongly, which then makes me feel that inflation is going to continue to be a little bit more stubborn than the Fed probably wants it to be, which also makes me feel that it's possible that the rate cuts are not going to be as aggressive as maybe originally we thought that they would be.
I follow the housing market a lot because our business is very tied to the housing market, particularly the single-family housing market. And I have to say; I think we're looking at this year being the worst in terms of sales of existing homes since 1995. People are just not moving, and I think people are not moving because of interest or mortgage rates. And I think mostly it's because we have this recency bias, right? Many of us are very used to this sort of 3%, 4% rates, and I don't know if we're going to see those still in this decade, at least. And I think generally that was an anomaly, but it's hard to think that that's an anomaly when, for so many people, that's the only thing they knew. But if you talk to people who are in their 60s and 70s, they'll often talk to you about interest rates being, or their mortgage rates being at 17, 18%.
Clint Betts
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Ania Smith
And so I think when we get to sort of stabilize around five, 6%, I think we're going to see that for a while, if I had to guess, certainly through 2025.
Clint Betts
Yeah, yeah, I think you're definitely right there. Although, again, who knows?
Ania Smith
Who knows?
Clint Betts
Predicting the economy is so wild. It's a crazy task. I don't know if you've experienced this, but as I've been talking to a lot of CEOs and leaders, I'm hearing more and more challenges with mental health within the employee base, just mental health being a really, really big topic in general and coming out of the pandemic and how leaders are dealing with that. How do you deal with it, kind of maintain your own mental sanity and mental health, and how are you thinking about it for your employees?
Ania Smith
I think it's a really important topic. I think I can tell you a little bit about our employees. So we provide services; we contract out with Headspace and others, I think, to help people. But I think really what it comes down to is, what types of policies do we have as an employer to help people do their very best work? And so that means, are there managers listening to them? Do they feel like they have the right career advancements? Do they feel like there's safety in speaking up? Do they feel like they can take time when they need to take time off? All of those things are things that we spend a lot of time thinking about and implementing to make sure that our teams feel like they can do their best work. B ut still, it's very challenging. I also think being remote makes it a little bit more challenging. I know for myself that when I go into the office and see people all day, it's super exciting. But because I don't do it every day, I find it draining for someone like me who's an extrovert. And for many people who are introverts, it must be double or triple that. But yet when I'm here by myself all day, just sort of stuck in my office, I also feel that feeling of being very alone, which is very different than early on in COVID where my whole family was here, my husband was here, my kids were here. And so sometimes that made things harder, but also even when I stepped out for two seconds, there would be faces around so you don't feel so alone versus just alone all day, every day.
So, there are things that I do, like I try to take a walk, I go running three times a week because it really clears my mind. And I hate the running port, but I love what it does for my mind, and that's why I do it. And I try to make sure that I have enough outside appointments or things that I get to do that don't sort of make me just be in this office all day, every day. I travel a lot as well, which helps.
Clint Betts
What do you think about the culture at TaskRabbit? And I wonder if you applied anything from that you learned from Airbnb or Uber and Uber Eats, and how you think about building a unique culture within the company?
Ania Smith
So, I think it's a great question. So, I often tell our teams that we're not going to win just by having a great culture in and of itself; that's not enough. But we also cannot win without having a great culture. It's been a foundational piece for me as a leader because I saw how big it played both at Airbnb and at Uber, both of which have very distinct and different cultures. And actually, both of them have evolved their cultures considerably since the time that I was there, right? Airbnb, under Brian, started as a different company than I would argue it is today; even under the same leader as Brian, a leader has evolved his thinking about what it means to succeed. Then, TK at Uber, obviously in 2017, was a very different time than, for example, how Airbnb was operating. But Dara has taken it to a very different new level as well. So, looking at and learning from those evolutions has been really interesting.
I think at TaskRabbit, we have to sort of find a balance. We have to be a high-performing culture, but we really have to care about each other as well. So we just went through this values exercise where we redid some of our core values because we felt like it's been many, many years since the last set of values were developed, and we're a much different company. We're much, much bigger, we're much more international, we are playing in different spaces now. And so it's been a fun exercise, and I love getting the teams involved in that process, too, because then they feel the ownership of really building something together. So it was exciting, but it was a lot of work. It is something that we spent a lot of time on at TaskRabbit.
Clint Betts
Finally, we end every interview with the same question, and that is, at CEO.com, we believe the chances one gives is just as important as the chances one takes. When you hear that, who gave you a chance to get you to where you are today?
Ania Smith
So I honestly, through my life, there's been so many opportunities here where people have given me a chance that it would be very hard to list them all. But I'll just talk about a couple people who have been instrumental.
I moved here from Poland when I was 12, and I didn't speak any English, so it was hard to go to school. I was going to this tiny parochial school that my parents put me in, and there was this teacher there who was just so deeply dedicated to me and my brother learning English. And so we came here in February, so of course, the school year ended sometime in May or June. And in that entire summer, we met at school every day, and she read for an hour with us every day. And this is for no pay; this is for no benefit to her other than seeing us grow. And so I'm forever thankful. I'm still in touch with that teacher, and I feel like she just took a chance on us. So, by the time I started the next grade level, I could read a grade level, which was pretty remarkable in a few months. And really, it's only because she said, "Hey, I'm going to take a chance on you. I know that you can do this."
I think within my career, too, there have been people who have said, "Hey, I see something in you, and even though you haven't done this before, I'm going to take a chance on you and sort of bet that you can do it." One person that comes to mind is Brian Roberts, who was in the CFL at Lyft for a while. He's at A16Z now, and he's been a great mentor and a coach throughout my career, really since our Walmart days. He would push me pretty hard sometimes, but I really appreciate that he always believed that I could sort of take the next step. So it's been fabulous to have people in my life who really, even though... I grew up in South Dakota, so very far from Silicon Valley, very far from New York and finance and the whole business school world and all of that, and yet I feel that because of people who have taken a chance on me, I've been able to really do something that's sort of beyond my dreams.
Clint Betts
That's incredible, and you've done such an incredible job at TaskRabbit. Congratulations on that. It's an incredible company. Again, I think everybody knows it, but if you've never used it, you should. It's incredible. Ania, thank you so much for coming on the show. It means a lot to have you.
Ania Smith
Thank you so much for having me, Clint. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Edited for readability.