John Harris Transcript
Clint Betts
John, thank you so much for coming on the show. You're the CEO of Worldwide Partners. Tell us what Worldwide Partners is and how you became the CEO.
John Harris
Sure. Well, first I want to thank you not only for having me, but for what you're doing with the ceo.com. I think the community that you've built that's allowing CEOs to lean on each other and learn from each other is quite admirable, so thank you for that. So Worldwide Partners is a global network of independent marketing services agencies. We have 95 agencies in 50 countries, and I think some of your listeners or viewers may be familiar with the multinational publicly traded holding companies. Their model is acquiring agencies all over the world, rolling them up into a consolidated P&L and balance sheet, and dictating operating terms and financial goals to these agencies to deliver shareholder value. Our model is unique in that all the agencies remain 100% independent. So we don't own them, we haven't acquired them, and the agencies actually own the network. So, my accountability is to a board of directors and agency leaders all over the globe. So, rather than the network dictating the terms to the agencies, the agencies actually dictate the terms to the network.
So, when we describe the network, we like to think of ourselves as the most collaborative agency network in the world. The value proposition there for clients is that brand marketers are looking for access to the best talent, wherever it is in the world. Especially when you're talking to a network, you want to be able to access that talent no matter where it is. You're looking for cross-functional talent that can deliver integrated campaigns to you. And then, ultimately, you want the engagement to be simple. You want it to be very easy and seamless, and you want a service model that's built around what you need.
And because our agencies own themselves and own the network, and that's who their accountability to is one another, and our clients, they're able to build very, very flexible models that allow the clients to have access to the exact talent they need, where they need it and when they need it. One of the clients that we are working with is Under Armour; we have worked with Lego at the Lego business for 40-plus years, Brand USA, which is a destination marketing organization for the US. We're working with TaylorMade Golf; we work with 3M across Latin America. So, you might know some names, but we're also working with some regional and local clients.
From an agency perspective, the proposition is scale without sale. So if you are an independent agency and you have a client, you're working in the US, the client wants you to work on a multinational basis, you don't have the appetite, whether that's the patients, the resources at the time to open up offices around the globe. By joining our network, you have access to 95 partners in 50 countries to offer a multinational solution. Or if you are a creative agency and you don't offer media capabilities, or you're a PR agency and you don't have the experiential capabilities, by joining the network, you've got access to partners with complementary skill sets that can scale your service offering.
And then the final piece is just the community. This network was founded in 1938, so hopefully it shows I was not the founder. But you have, similar to ceo.com, you have CEOs who are all agency folks, but there's also value proposition in learning for CFOs and creative directors and media directors. We have a global mentoring program with 200 people around the world. So, there's a great deal of sharing of best practices and support for one another throughout the system.
Clint Betts
How do you decide what agency should or shouldn't join? Is it right for the network, and isn't it right for the network? What is that process like?
John Harris
No, it's a great question. So, part of the application process is that if you want to join the network, you have to be approved by the agencies that are in the network. So it's an interesting model where we want to protect the quality of the agencies. So, quality of work can be subjective, but when you look at someone's client list and do this as long as I have, you've got a good view of what's great work. We're looking for if there is a geography where we need to fill a gap. We're in 50 countries, so we have a really strong footprint currently. We're also looking for unique capabilities or expertise.
So, within our network, we have experts in pharma and B2B, food, and agricultural marketing. We have a sound design agency that was founded by Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran. We have an agency in the US that was founded by two gentlemen with disabilities, staffed with people with disabilities to help brand marketers more effectively market to people with disabilities. So we're looking for really compelling stories and skill sets, as well as vertical knowledge that might add to our story. So, we're looking for additive versus redundancy.
But I think the most important piece, and I think this is why the network's been around for almost nine decades, is the collaborative spirit. We are not a lead farm for agencies. We're looking for great people who are equally greedy as they are giving. And because I think that's what's made this world go around for so long here at our network, people are working together because they've chosen to work together, not because they have to. And when you've opted into that idea and that model and embracing that collaboration fuels ambition, that softer evaluation is really the most important piece.
And we've been fortunate, and I don't think it's necessarily just what we've been doing in raising the profile of the network, but the independent agencies are getting more [inaudible 00:05:24] because clients are looking for the agility that comes from working with an independent agency and they're getting the question of scale. So we've had a high degree of interest in joining the network, and I think we turned away 80 agencies last year who wanted to join for one, or in some cases, all of the reasons that they didn't check the right boxes for us.
So we're proud and protective of the community and the board of directors here is not looking to be the biggest network. We want to protect the culture and the collaborative spirit that we have. And so we don't need to be 150 agencies. Growth's going to be dictated by what our clients need us to do and where our clients need us to be.
Clint Betts
I think that's beautiful and so important, right? I think so often, communities try to get way too big and try to serve everyone. And then it's almost like, what are you doing? Who is actually being served here, and what is the point? And then you kind of look up and realize it was just about getting more membership dues or something like that throughout the year in order to make it work, which is really interesting. As you were talking about it, it almost seems like you're like a sports commissioner. Like the commissioner of the NFL, NBA, or Major League Baseball, they work for the owners of the team.
John Harris
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Clint Betts
[inaudible 00:06:36] model that I'm trying to, I'm just trying to think of where this other type of model exists. It's kind of like that, no?
John Harris
Yeah, yeah. Look, I love that analogy. That's the best analogy that I've heard that I can use again. Yes, we are here to serve the agencies, that is our role. At the same time, it elevates the value of the worldwide partner's name. You know, the NFL SHIELD stands for something, and we liken ourselves to the old Intel inside proposition where you have a Dell, and it's a great computer because it has an Intel processor. And I think that this idea of our agencies being powered by worldwide partners is something that we embrace in how we represent ourselves, that our job is to make them the best version of them that they can be so that they can support the clients in the best fashion they can. I
Clint Betts
I have to know how the name came about and how the whole organization came about. I mean, starting in the [inaudible 00:07:32]-
John Harris
Yeah. Oh, great question.
Clint Betts
...that's a really interesting time for this.
John Harris
Yeah, so it was started by a group of agencies in California and Arizona, five agencies who, even at that time, were watching the large manufacturers and products, good companies get on trains and go to New York to hire advertising agencies because New York was considered the center of advertising excellence. And so they came together to really share best practices and learnings from one another and a very much of a, I guess, more like a trade body early on. And I'll spare you the nine decades of history, but as some of the large agencies began to go global and the holding companies came into the mix, they saw an opportunity to expand the community to a global level.
In 2000, we set up the ownership structure where the agencies owned it. And they came up with the name of Worldwide Partners, which I think is a very clear, concise representation of who we are. It's a global community of partners that are driven to drive each other's business and our client's business. And so that's where the name came from as we began to go global and really migrate from just the community component to providing commercial value to the agencies and, more importantly, delivering commercial returns for our clients. And so you've got this really nice balance of, pardon the alliteration, of community and commerce here that I think works.
And our membership has sustained pretty well year over year. If someone usually leaves the network, it's perhaps they got acquired by a holding company. So yeah, that's the origin, and that DNA of really being about seeing each other succeed and being stronger together is absolutely core to the business here now. We meet in person two times a year as a global team. We're doing virtual roundtables every week on a variety of different subjects. And so yeah, it's a pretty special group. It's a family.
Clint Betts
What does a typical day look like for you? Are you spending a lot of your time on the community aspect? I mean, tell us kind of how you allocate your [inaudible 00:09:31]-
John Harris
Sure. Yeah, so it's certainly not a 9:00 to 5:00 job. Because at 6:00 or 7:00 AM I'm on calls with Europe and then 7:00 or 8:00 PM I'm [inaudible 00:09:40] with Asia and I'm talking to the Americas in between.
So I think the three areas I'm spending my time on, probably the most of it, is working with our existing agencies and our head of global collaboration here on the team and helping them put together the right teams and talents to meet a specific brief that a client may have come up. It's matchmaking and sounds very transactional, so I don't want to phrase it that way, but it is an art, I think, in putting the right teams together. This is not just based on geography, capabilities, and expertise, but who do we think is going to be the right cultural fit for one another? So, spending a great deal of time there, talking to prospective agencies who want to be a part of the network and evaluating whether we think that they're going to be the types of agencies, they're going to be what our clients need them to be. Spending time with our head of content and shaping events and the marketing efforts that we're doing. And there are times where there's triage, where you've got to jump in, and as anybody has to, solve an immediate problem.
So it's great. I'm learning so much each and every day talking to entrepreneurial agency owners from all over the globe. And then yesterday I had a conversation with a client who was looking to build out an arsenal of agencies, and so we're doing some direct client work as well. So that's a typical day if they're typical.
Clint Betts
How is AI affecting your members and the industry at large?
John Harris
Yeah. Look, every industry is being impacted by it. I think our advertising industry, AI, is not new to us from a media perspective especially. It's been really key part of optimizing media plans. Say nine months ago you saw just an exponential level of awareness with the addition of generative AI and the implications on creative products. And so I would say every agency in the network to some degree is testing, adopting and adapting at a very vigorous pace.
The question that we get from clients is very simple, how are you using AI? And the question behind the question is, how are you going to save me money and give me more for less? And that's really what they're looking for. And it is a valid question that every client should expect that their agency is doing everything you can to leverage the tools at their disposal to do things efficiently for them.
I was working when the internet was started, I was working when Facebook came on board, I was working when Metaverse was here, and I'm still working with AI here. In my experience with new technology, I have always subscribed to the idea of people and platforms. I didn't say this, and this has been said many times, that we're not going to lose our jobs to AI. We're going to lose our jobs to people who have mastered the use of AI. AI doesn't have empathy. It's good there's going to be a human component to it, but there are certain areas of the business that can be automated.
I think and hope we can get to a place where we're switching the conversation. How do we do more for less? How do we do more that matters? I had a conversation with a client the other day, and they said, "Well, aren't you using AI to produce and distribute disposable content?" And I said, "Okay, disposable content." This just made me pause for a moment, saying that if its content is disposable by very nature, we might say it's certainly short-term, and do we really need it? And I think that there's an opportunity for us to take a step back and say, not just in what can be done with AI, but overall are the things that we're doing and are the things we're leveraging technology for, are we doing it for the things that really and truly matter?
And so if we're finding efficiencies in time and we're saving money, I'd love to see us get to a place where we're investing even half of that time and money back into innovation and back into applying creative thinking, not creativity but creative thinking to solving business problems versus just putting it all in the bank. And I think if we can find that balance of leveraging it as a way to make us better but also free up time to do the things that matter, I think we're going to be in a really good place.
Clint Betts
What do you read, and what reading recommendations do you have for us?
John Harris
I've become a big fan of podcasts because I'm able to cross a lot of territory in a lot less time. And as the kids say, it's snackable content. Look, I'm a big fan. I guess it's maybe 10 years old now for Shoe Dog, Phil Knight's story of Nike. Look, we've all in some way in our lives worn a pair of Nikes, whether for performance or for style, but it's an incredibly credible journey that talks about vision, ambition, hardship, challenges, and conviction, and then success and then more challenges. And it's not just on the marketing side, right? We all know the Just Do It campaigns, but they are around product development and manufacturing and the implications of going overseas. And it is just a fascinating story that I enjoyed very much.
From a podcast perspective, in addition to ceo.com, if I could plug another one here, it's the Uncensored CMO. This may seem like a question for the CEOs on the call: Why should I listen to a podcast for CMOs? And I think that as leaders, it's our responsibility to understand the mindset and the challenges that our people are facing. Sometimes, we can be that challenge. And I think that true to the name of it being uncensored, it's a really uncensored view into the world of CMOs. So, if you're working with CMOs or senior-level marketing people and you're a CEO, it's a great listen. But if you haven't read Shoe Dog, read it. It's such a fascinating book.
Clint Betts
Yeah, Shoe Dog is a great just story of entrepreneurship and how that happened. And it feels like Nike's been around for hundreds and hundreds of years and you realize it was like the '70s. It's like wild. Yeah, it's just crazy.
John Harris
Yeah, I can't believe we ran in some of those Nikes that they said were performance shoes back in the '80s. No arch support.
Clint Betts
What's the best piece of leadership advice you've ever received?
John Harris
I've been fortunate to have some wonderful leaders that I've worked with over time and were also vocal in giving, I guess is a better word, with their leadership advice. I think the most consistent piece that I heard from those that I valued the input from the most was the power of alignment. When you are trying to drive change, especially in an organization, or keep consistent on the path, having everybody aligned in the goal and how we're going to approach the goal, I think is really, really important. Alignment takes time; it takes patience. Depending on the size of the initiative, the size of the company will depend on how broad and deep you try to drive that alignment. But sometimes, it's just a small individual decision. But I'm a big believer in getting people to breathe on things; whether it's a big decision or a small decision, I'm always seeking out other people's opinions to either shoot my idea down, validate my idea, but, more importantly, help them have ownership in the idea.
I was given the opportunity to run one of the agencies that I worked for before this job. We had acquired another agency, and I was given an opportunity to run this agency, and it was a really solid agency. It has been around for 25 years at that time, with a really strong EBITDA. Nothing wrong with it, but the parent group said, "It's not growing, and we'd like to see it grow. And so go in there and shake things up." And we know how that movie tends to end, right? Where it's like, ah, the change agent's coming in. But I followed the book, Clint. I mean, it was all right. I met with everybody in the organization. It was 75 people, so that wasn't an insurmountable feat.
And I started to look for themes, and themes began to rise. We took a representative group of that team offsite, all levels within the organization. Put together a plan, milestones, dates, responsibilities, and white stickies all over the board. I came back to the office and laid it all out on this wall of cubicles in the middle of the office so that everybody could [inaudible 00:17:46], "Okay, here's where we're going. Oh, that was an idea that I had. Oh, my name's over here." And then, we started to implement the plan. And I remember somebody coming up to me, and he said, "Oh, you were serious." And I said, "Well, I thought you guys were serious. This isn't my plan, this is our plan, this is your plan, that's your idea that's up there." And what I realized pretty quickly is I didn't have the alignment that I thought I had. And we had some people that opted out. We had some clients along the way that we lost. But two years into it, we began to see some traction. We brought some new team members in, and our goal was that because this was more of a regional-based agency, we wanted a big national account. We ended up winning a global brand campaign assignment, AOR, for a brand in the health and beauty space. But it took us two and a half years.
And so I think along the way I learned just validate the alignment you think you have. If you don't have it, go get it. If there's people on the team that can't get there and you still believe in the plan, then they've got to move along. But again, every success I've seen, there's been alignment. Any enduring success, sustainable success. And any failure somewhere along the way, alignment wasn't there.
Clint Betts
Yeah, that is really interesting. I wonder what the overall sentiment of your membership is, and of you going into 2024, there's a lot of uncertainty going into 2025, there's still insane amount of uncertainty. Some things aren't as uncertain maybe as they were. How are you thinking about 2025 versus 2024 and what do you think the overall outlook for the industry is?
John Harris
Yeah, I talk to our agencies around the globe every day, and there is a high degree of optimism. I think that last year we were joking, somebody said that if we looked at revenue for last year, that flat was the new up. If we were able to cycle 2023, which was a good year for most of our agencies, they would be happy. And some had some challenging years last year, depending on the category they may have focused more on. But I can say across the board, there's a level of optimism.
There's a couple of markets that are a little challenged right now, the UK being one of them. So if I look at it on a global view, but if I look at the US specifically, high degree of optimism. And the number of briefs that are coming through and pitches that are coming in very early on is a good signal. I think many clients were holding back towards Q4 for variety of reasons. But once we hit '25, the race is on.
I think it's also going to be really dependent on some categories that are going to be impacted by a variety of different factors going on around us. But I think overall, spending globally is looking to be up. Highest point, I think digital is now looking at being almost 80% of the spend. So everybody's very, very bullish and optimistic and yeah, we'll see how things play out.
Clint Betts
Finally, we end every interview with the same question and that is at ceo.com, we believe the chances one gives is just as important as the chances one takes. When you hear that, who gave you a chance to get you to where you are today?
John Harris
Oh wow, this is such a fabulous question, and I've been doing this where there are a lot of people. I think I would first say Travis Erwin, who gave me my first job in the beer business, driving a keg truck, and then gave me my second job in the beer business. Ron Askew and Mark Lampersky, the CEO and president of the agency, moved me here to Colorado, where I live, to work on the Coors account and then gave me my first general management role. Lastly, there was Mary Farrell, who was on the board of directors here at Worldwide Partners. She was actually the... so on the selection committee for my position, and she was the interim CEO while they were filling my position. Mary was so gracious, not only with her time but also with her counsel in helping me navigate and understand the dynamics of a global organization. She really held my hand along this and wanted to make sure I was set up for success. So, I talk to all of them today.
Clint Betts
That's awesome. John, thank you so much for everything you do and for what an incredible organization Worldwide Partners is. In no small part, thanks to your leadership. So thank you so much for that. It was great to have you on; that was a great conversation.
John Harris
Thank you. I really appreciate it. And thank you for all you're doing with ceo.com.
Clint Betts
Thanks, my friend.
Edited for readability.