Jason Feifer keeps a spreadsheet called good contacts

Jason Feifer keeps a spreadsheet called Good Contacts. Everyone he meets goes in it. He started it years before he had anything to sell them, because he had noticed something about the people he covers.

Feifer has been editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine since 2016. In 2018 he and his wife, the novelist Jennifer Miller, published a romantic comedy called Mr. Nice Guy with St. Martin's Griffin. The TV rights sold too, he said. When he told friends in media, they said congratulations. When he told entrepreneurs, they asked what he was going to do with it.

"To an entrepreneur the only reason to do something is because it is the foundation upon which the next thing will be built," Feifer told the CEO.com Podcast in May 2023. He did not think that way before. He does now, and it is the reason a man who is very happy in his job spends so much of his time on things his job does not own.

"I am best known for right now being editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur magazine. But there is a problem with that, and that is that I don't own Entrepreneur magazine. It's not mine; it's the Shea family's," he said. "I think that it would be foolish for me or for anyone in a position of platform that they don't own themselves to not be really mindful of, 'What am I able to build right now that I can walk away with later?'"

The building is well along. His newsletter, One Thing Better, goes out weekly to more than 80,000 subscribers. He co-hosts the podcast Help Wanted with Nicole Lapin. He runs a group coaching program for early-stage consumer product founders called CPG Fast Track. He has spoken for Google, Microsoft, Pfizer, and Alibaba. This past March, he was the keynote speaker at TENWEST in Tucson and a judge for its IdeaFunding pitch competition. He is clear that none of this is a plan to leave. "I love Entrepreneur. I'm not running out the door."

The centerpiece is Build for Tomorrow, published by Harmony, a Penguin Random House imprint, in September 2022. He said a book is harder to launch than a product because you cannot ship a minimum viable version and fix it later. So the launch started years out: the spreadsheet, favors done and nothing asked for, and answering his own DMs. He had once helped Nasdaq put together a virtual event. When the book came out, his cover went up on the Nasdaq billboard in Times Square. It stayed up for five minutes. He spent the five minutes running through the square with a camera operator, high-fiving tourists, and then paid to promote the resulting video on TikTok.

He was specific about what actually sells books: a New York Times review, an NPR feature, the Today Show. Not much else. Friends at big publications ran excerpts. "That didn't do anything," he said. The value was that people saw the book everywhere, and a book is partly a perception business.

The same question he asks of every launch, "What is this for?", is the one he puts to his own industry. Ads and subscriptions were once enough. Now readers can get most things free, and advertisers have Facebook and Google. "Content is for relationships," he said. "Content builds trust and trust builds relationships." A media company that survives, in his telling, uses its journalism to earn trust and then sells something else on top of it: products, services, events. At Entrepreneur, they talk about it constantly, and they are building the products.

His prescription for local news follows the same logic, and it is worth sitting with. Feifer came up at the Worcester Telegram & Gazette and has watched the Cleveland Plain Dealer, in his wife's hometown, thin out. His suggestion is that a paper like that becomes the marketing and advertising arm for local businesses that cannot find one nearby, or gets into events, or the funeral business, because obituaries are still a draw. That is a real strategy and several papers are trying it. It also means the newsroom sells marketing to the same businesses it is supposed to cover. He did not raise that, and it is the cost of the model he describes.

He was not sentimental about the alternative. "Maybe the answer is that the thing dies and something comes in its place," he said, "because it is an old institution weighed down by decades of cost and layers of management structure and the cost of printing a paper." People have wanted to know what is happening in their communities since long before there were newspapers, and he expects that need to find a new form. Communities that have lost their paper and gotten nothing back, he said, are living in the middle of the transition, not the end of it.

00:00:09 Introducing Jason Feifer
00:00:38 Becoming Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur
00:03:01 How Entrepreneurs Think Differently
00:06:11 Writing Build for Tomorrow
00:10:01 Knowing an Idea Deserves a Book
00:16:00 Launching a Book Like a Product
00:20:45 Creative Publicity Stunts and Perception
00:25:22 The Future of Magazines and Substack
00:26:56 Rethinking What Content Is For
00:29:23 Can Legacy Local News Survive
00:34:55 Defining the Wouldn't Go Back Moment
00:39:59 Closing Thoughts

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Jason,<00:00:09.922> thanks<00:00:10.132> so<00:00:10.213> much<00:00:10.455> for<00:00:10.536> coming<00:00:10.859> on<00:00:10.956> the<00:00:11.053> show.

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I<00:00:16.770> was<00:00:17.077> looking<00:00:17.497> at<00:00:17.723> your,<00:00:18.450> uh,<00:00:18.773> resume<00:00:19.193> and<00:00:19.273> what<00:00:19.499> they<00:00:19.677> put<00:00:19.919> here<00:00:20.081> is<00:00:20.226> like<00:00:20.387> your<00:00:20.549> bio,<00:00:22.002> um,<00:00:22.809> and<00:00:23.132> it's<00:00:23.374> unbelievable,<00:00:24.505> like,<00:00:24.682> the<00:00:24.844> things<00:00:25.086> that<00:00:25.247> you've<00:00:25.473> done.

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Magazine.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Entrepreneur<00:00:33.439> Magazine.

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Yeah.

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It<00:03:43.623> was<00:03:43.785> really<00:03:44.045> interesting,<00:03:44.533> actually.

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So,<00:03:46.716> I<00:03:46.813> first<00:03:47.281> realized<00:03:47.846> it<00:03:48.185> for<00:03:48.282> myself<00:03:49.622> back<00:03:50.107> in—<00:03:50.914> oh,<00:03:51.011> I<00:03:51.043> can't<00:03:51.172> remember<00:03:51.479> what<00:03:51.576> it<00:03:51.657> was,<00:03:51.964> maybe<00:03:52.125> 2017<00:03:52.884> or<00:03:52.949> something<00:03:53.142> like<00:03:53.336> that.

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I<00:03:54.466> had<00:03:55.510> co-authored<00:03:56.394> a<00:03:56.555> romantic<00:03:57.213> comedy<00:03:58.418> novel<00:03:58.900> with<00:03:59.061> my<00:03:59.302> wife.

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And<00:04:00.989> we<00:04:01.134> had<00:04:01.696> started—<00:04:02.162> yeah,<00:04:02.275> it<00:04:02.339> was<00:04:02.387> a<00:04:02.435> lot<00:04:02.612> of<00:04:02.708> fun.

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We'd<00:04:03.255> started<00:04:03.624> working<00:04:03.865> on<00:04:03.930> it<00:04:04.108> years<00:04:04.432> before<00:04:05.177> I<00:04:05.323> had<00:04:05.485> gotten<00:04:05.663> to<00:04:05.825> Entrepreneur.

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But<00:04:06.328> by<00:04:06.409> the<00:04:06.554> time<00:04:06.798> it<00:04:06.879> came<00:04:07.105> out,<00:04:07.348> I<00:04:07.429> was<00:04:07.591> at<00:04:07.672> Entrepreneur.

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And<00:04:08.045> so,<00:04:08.191> I<00:04:08.304> had<00:04:08.369> become<00:04:10.108> starting<00:04:10.413> to<00:04:10.509> get<00:04:10.654> known<00:04:11.295> for<00:04:11.616> being<00:04:12.001> a—<00:04:12.980> I<00:04:12.996> mean,<00:04:13.205> for<00:04:13.285> lack<00:04:13.461> of<00:04:13.541> a<00:04:13.606> better<00:04:13.846> term,<00:04:14.119> even<00:04:14.263> though<00:04:14.408> this<00:04:14.504> term<00:04:14.681> is<00:04:14.745> stupid—<00:04:15.162> thought<00:04:15.467> leader<00:04:15.868> in<00:04:16.012> the<00:04:16.044> space.

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And<00:04:17.729> so<00:04:18.274> now<00:04:18.435> I've<00:04:18.579> got<00:04:18.740> this<00:04:18.900> romantic<00:04:19.237> comedy<00:04:19.622> coming<00:04:19.799> out<00:04:19.879> that<00:04:19.975> has<00:04:20.103> like<00:04:20.264> nothing<00:04:20.521> to<00:04:20.601> do<00:04:20.745> with<00:04:20.906> anything.

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And<00:04:22.526> I<00:04:22.606> was<00:04:22.767> noticing<00:04:23.088> these<00:04:23.312> two<00:04:23.633> very<00:04:23.874> different<00:04:24.130> reactions<00:04:24.708> to<00:04:24.933> it.

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So<00:04:27.002> my<00:04:27.179> media<00:04:27.660> friends,<00:04:28.141> my<00:04:28.366> writer<00:04:28.703> friends,<00:04:29.585> when<00:04:29.746> they<00:04:29.970> heard<00:04:30.323> that<00:04:30.404> my<00:04:30.548> wife<00:04:30.789> and<00:04:30.933> I<00:04:31.013> had<00:04:31.254> wrote<00:04:31.591> and<00:04:31.671> sold<00:04:32.072> a<00:04:32.136> romantic<00:04:32.473> comedy—<00:04:32.794> we<00:04:32.890> sold<00:04:33.099> it<00:04:33.179> to<00:04:33.259> like<00:04:33.420> a,<00:04:33.596> you<00:04:33.677> know,<00:04:33.773> major<00:04:34.158> press<00:04:34.623> with<00:04:34.719> this<00:04:35.201> book<00:04:35.490> where<00:04:35.586> the<00:04:36.164> TV<00:04:36.469> rights<00:04:36.710> were<00:04:36.871> purchased,<00:04:38.011> they<00:04:38.171> said,<00:04:38.974> "Wow,<00:04:39.151> that's<00:04:39.440> awesome.

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Congratulations.

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So<00:04:40.901> cool."<00:04:42.186> Entrepreneurs<00:04:42.812> did<00:04:42.989> not<00:04:43.214> say<00:04:43.471> that.

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When<00:04:44.017> I<00:04:44.129> told<00:04:44.418> entrepreneurs<00:04:44.900> that<00:04:44.996> I<00:04:45.783> had<00:04:45.976> sold<00:04:46.265> this<00:04:46.442> book,<00:04:46.763> they<00:04:46.859> said,<00:04:47.967> "Oh,<00:04:48.048> that's<00:04:48.288> interesting.

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What<00:04:48.834> are<00:04:48.915> you<00:04:49.011> going<00:04:49.107> to<00:04:49.236> do<00:04:49.332> with<00:04:49.509> it?"<00:04:50.681> And<00:04:50.938> at<00:04:51.002> first,<00:04:51.259> I<00:04:51.324> couldn't<00:04:51.500> understand<00:04:51.982> that<00:04:52.143> reaction.

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And<00:04:52.929> then<00:04:53.588> I<00:04:53.652> realized,<00:04:54.134> wait<00:04:54.310> a<00:04:54.327> second,<00:04:54.873> that's<00:04:55.113> because<00:04:56.061> to<00:04:56.238> an<00:04:56.318> entrepreneur,<00:04:57.603> the<00:04:57.908> only<00:04:58.245> reason<00:04:58.550> to<00:04:58.727> do<00:04:58.903> something<00:04:59.594> is<00:04:59.690> because<00:05:00.509> it<00:05:00.638> is<00:05:00.734> the<00:05:00.814> foundation<00:05:01.553> upon<00:05:02.019> which<00:05:02.260> the<00:05:02.324> next<00:05:02.581> thing<00:05:02.741> will<00:05:02.902> be<00:05:03.063> built.

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It<00:05:03.801> is<00:05:04.010> what<00:05:04.106> I<00:05:04.187> like<00:05:04.411> to<00:05:04.588> think<00:05:04.813> of<00:05:04.925> now<00:05:05.214> as<00:05:05.520> horizontal<00:05:06.273> thinking,<00:05:06.914> that<00:05:07.298> everything<00:05:07.859> drives<00:05:08.612> something<00:05:09.157> else.

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Even<00:05:10.599> though,<00:05:10.824> you<00:05:10.904> know,<00:05:11.080> of<00:05:11.160> course<00:05:11.336> you<00:05:11.465> cannot<00:05:11.657> control<00:05:12.138> the<00:05:12.266> exact<00:05:12.859> direction<00:05:13.548> in<00:05:13.644> which<00:05:13.820> things<00:05:14.028> are<00:05:14.061> going<00:05:14.157> to<00:05:14.221> move,<00:05:14.525> but<00:05:14.685> you<00:05:14.990> know<00:05:15.246> that<00:05:15.326> by<00:05:15.631> doing<00:05:15.871> something<00:05:16.208> you're<00:05:16.352> going<00:05:16.528> to<00:05:16.849> learn<00:05:17.410> a<00:05:17.426> certain<00:05:17.874> thing<00:05:18.371> and<00:05:18.419> you're<00:05:18.531> going<00:05:18.627> to<00:05:18.676> be<00:05:18.772> able<00:05:18.916> to<00:05:19.028> apply<00:05:19.493> that<00:05:19.653> to<00:05:19.797> whatever<00:05:19.990> is<00:05:20.118> coming<00:05:20.374> next.

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And<00:05:21.255> so<00:05:21.816> you<00:05:21.912> always<00:05:22.201> have<00:05:22.393> a<00:05:22.457> kind<00:05:22.618> of<00:05:23.178> idea<00:05:23.643> in,<00:05:23.819> in<00:05:23.964> mind<00:05:24.444> of,<00:05:24.637> I'm<00:05:24.781> going<00:05:24.877> to<00:05:24.925> do<00:05:25.101> this<00:05:25.342> because<00:05:25.742> it<00:05:25.822> is<00:05:25.903> going<00:05:26.063> to<00:05:26.223> possibly<00:05:26.688> lead<00:05:26.864> to<00:05:27.088> these,<00:05:27.585> these<00:05:28.210> outcomes.

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Whereas,<00:05:30.069> you<00:05:30.149> know,<00:05:30.293> most<00:05:30.534> people<00:05:30.710> just<00:05:30.854> don't<00:05:31.030> think<00:05:31.191> like<00:05:31.351> that.

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They<00:05:31.848> just<00:05:31.992> don't.

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They<00:05:32.553> think<00:05:32.874> horizontally,<00:05:33.676> which<00:05:33.836> is<00:05:33.916> to<00:05:34.013> say<00:05:34.221> that<00:05:34.317> they<00:05:34.542> do<00:05:34.654> something<00:05:35.055> and<00:05:35.119> then<00:05:35.199> they<00:05:35.279> move<00:05:35.504> along,<00:05:35.760> they<00:05:35.841> do<00:05:35.921> something<00:05:36.226> else,<00:05:36.386> they<00:05:36.450> move<00:05:36.578> along,<00:05:36.867> they<00:05:36.915> do<00:05:37.059> something<00:05:37.364> else.

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And<00:05:38.872> the<00:05:38.968> more<00:05:39.288> that<00:05:39.673> I<00:05:40.748> started<00:05:41.373> to<00:05:42.897> adapt<00:05:43.378> my<00:05:43.618> own<00:05:43.843> way<00:05:44.003> of<00:05:44.099> thinking<00:05:44.500> to<00:05:44.597> this<00:05:44.917> vertical<00:05:45.446> thinking,<00:05:46.585> the<00:05:46.729> more<00:05:47.066> I<00:05:47.226> realized<00:05:47.772> that<00:05:48.814> I<00:05:49.456> and<00:05:49.696> anyone<00:05:50.578> who<00:05:50.754> thinks<00:05:50.979> like<00:05:51.171> this<00:05:52.262> can<00:05:52.438> put<00:05:52.663> themselves<00:05:53.080> in<00:05:53.160> a<00:05:53.240> better<00:05:53.465> position<00:05:53.962> to<00:05:54.828> learn<00:05:55.469> and<00:05:55.630> grow<00:05:56.832> and<00:05:57.329> apply.

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And<00:05:58.694> to,<00:05:58.936> right,<00:05:59.258> to,<00:05:59.339> to,<00:05:59.725> to<00:05:59.822> take<00:06:00.064> the<00:06:00.209> experiences<00:06:00.772> that<00:06:00.869> you<00:06:01.014> have<00:06:01.272> and<00:06:01.352> be<00:06:01.513> incredibly<00:06:02.158> mindful<00:06:02.947> about<00:06:03.285> what<00:06:03.446> it<00:06:03.591> is<00:06:03.752> that<00:06:03.913> you<00:06:04.171> need<00:06:04.735> next<00:06:05.299> in<00:06:05.460> order<00:06:05.701> to<00:06:05.846> grow<00:06:06.185> and<00:06:06.491> open<00:06:06.732> up<00:06:06.974> future<00:06:07.216> opportunities.

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And<00:06:08.614> that<00:06:09.330> has<00:06:09.508> been<00:06:09.671> the<00:06:09.834> big<00:06:10.077> game<00:06:10.305> changer<00:06:10.630> for<00:06:10.744> me.

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What<00:06:12.175> did<00:06:12.354> you<00:06:12.516> do<00:06:12.744> with<00:06:12.907> the<00:06:13.004> book?

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Did<00:06:14.921> you<00:06:15.018> build<00:06:15.325> up<00:06:15.487> on<00:06:15.648> it?

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Oh,<00:06:16.716> well,<00:06:17.427> I<00:06:17.460> mean,<00:06:17.670> I'm,<00:06:18.074> I'm<00:06:18.317> trying<00:06:18.656> to,<00:06:19.125> uh,<00:06:19.400> you<00:06:19.481> know,<00:06:19.530> I<00:06:19.546> mean,<00:06:19.627> the<00:06:19.707> book<00:06:19.869> only<00:06:20.031> came<00:06:20.193> out,<00:06:20.257> so<00:06:20.500> you<00:06:20.597> and<00:06:20.678> I<00:06:20.742> are<00:06:20.839> talking<00:06:21.648> in<00:06:21.793> January<00:06:22.279> of<00:06:22.359> 2023.

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The<00:06:23.119> book<00:06:23.265> came<00:06:23.572> out<00:06:23.750> in<00:06:23.880> September<00:06:24.319> of<00:06:24.417> 2022,<00:06:25.068> so<00:06:25.231> it<00:06:25.264> hasn't<00:06:25.524> been<00:06:25.622> that<00:06:25.932> long.

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What's<00:06:26.602> the<00:06:26.682> name<00:06:26.827> of<00:06:26.907> that<00:06:27.083> book?

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So,<00:06:28.189> that<00:06:28.365> book<00:06:28.526> is—<00:06:28.686> it's<00:06:28.830> called—<00:06:29.071> well,<00:06:29.231> it's<00:06:29.327> just—<00:06:29.504> it's<00:06:29.632> right<00:06:29.728> behind<00:06:29.888> me<00:06:30.033> here.

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It's<00:06:30.305> called<00:06:30.610> Build<00:06:30.930> for<00:06:31.251> Tomorrow.

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Okay.

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And<00:06:32.774> the<00:06:32.918> subtitle<00:06:33.335> there<00:06:33.495> is<00:06:33.639> An<00:06:33.800> Action<00:06:34.120> Plan<00:06:34.441> for<00:06:34.537> Embracing<00:06:35.018> Change,<00:06:35.339> Adapting<00:06:35.819> Fast,<00:06:36.220> and<00:06:36.381> Future-Proofing<00:06:37.022> Your<00:06:37.246> Career.

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It<00:06:37.823> is<00:06:37.919> a<00:06:38.144> book<00:06:38.529> about<00:06:39.651> how<00:06:39.987> to<00:06:40.148> become<00:06:40.853> more<00:06:41.254> adaptable,<00:06:41.895> how<00:06:42.071> to<00:06:42.151> see<00:06:42.857> opportunity<00:06:43.674> in<00:06:43.835> change.

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And<00:06:44.684> that<00:06:44.812> was<00:06:44.957> because<00:06:46.223> I<00:06:46.399> had<00:06:46.560> found<00:06:47.121> that<00:06:47.842> the<00:06:47.906> most<00:06:48.323> successful<00:06:49.044> people,<00:06:49.365> the<00:06:49.509> people<00:06:49.766> who<00:06:49.990> had<00:06:50.888> built<00:06:51.289> incredible<00:06:51.834> companies,<00:06:52.395> who<00:06:52.555> had<00:06:53.213> been<00:06:53.454> building<00:06:53.855> for<00:06:54.000> a<00:06:54.016> very<00:06:54.241> long<00:06:54.481> time,<00:06:55.220> the<00:06:55.300> thing<00:06:55.541> that<00:06:55.702> defined<00:06:56.344> them<00:06:56.746> was<00:06:56.986> their<00:06:57.211> ability<00:06:57.854> to<00:06:58.014> adapt,<00:06:58.512> to<00:06:58.608> see<00:06:59.219> changes<00:06:59.781> coming<00:07:00.278> and<00:07:00.439> react<00:07:00.824> to<00:07:00.905> them<00:07:01.001> before<00:07:01.306> they<00:07:01.386> were<00:07:01.499> forced<00:07:01.965> to,<00:07:02.767> to<00:07:03.089> have<00:07:03.346> a<00:07:03.410> sense<00:07:04.052> of<00:07:04.213> themselves<00:07:05.176> that,<00:07:05.899> that,<00:07:06.686> that<00:07:06.846> went<00:07:07.023> beyond<00:07:08.308> the<00:07:08.388> specific<00:07:09.673> thing<00:07:09.913> that<00:07:10.074> they<00:07:10.170> make<00:07:10.877> or<00:07:11.021> the<00:07:11.664> role<00:07:11.921> that<00:07:12.081> they<00:07:12.242> occupy,<00:07:13.286> which<00:07:13.446> I<00:07:13.527> think<00:07:13.767> really<00:07:14.073> enabled<00:07:14.490> them<00:07:14.731> to<00:07:14.827> be<00:07:14.972> able<00:07:15.132> to<00:07:15.373> pivot<00:07:15.855> and<00:07:16.000> continue<00:07:16.417> to<00:07:16.562> provide<00:07:16.963> value<00:07:17.381> in,<00:07:17.798> in<00:07:18.087> any<00:07:18.344> way<00:07:18.745> because<00:07:19.548> they<00:07:19.789> were<00:07:21.476> resilient<00:07:22.584> to<00:07:22.680> change<00:07:23.162> because<00:07:23.885> the<00:07:24.109> thing<00:07:24.286> that<00:07:24.366> they<00:07:24.511> had<00:07:24.607> defined<00:07:25.073> themselves<00:07:25.491> by<00:07:26.599> didn't<00:07:27.081> change<00:07:27.579> even<00:07:27.739> in<00:07:27.835> times<00:07:28.157> of<00:07:28.285> change.

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I<00:07:28.928> wanted<00:07:29.168> to<00:07:29.201> understand<00:07:29.570> how<00:07:29.666> they<00:07:29.811> were<00:07:29.988> doing<00:07:30.389> this.

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And<00:07:31.353> so,<00:07:31.433> I<00:07:31.497> spent<00:07:31.899> years<00:07:32.718> talking<00:07:33.103> to<00:07:33.200> people,<00:07:34.436> sort<00:07:35.047> of<00:07:35.127> searching,<00:07:35.705> kind<00:07:36.251> of<00:07:36.412> processing<00:07:37.038> stories<00:07:38.002> through<00:07:38.194> the<00:07:38.323> lens<00:07:38.805> of<00:07:39.126> what<00:07:39.238> it<00:07:39.527> was<00:07:39.849> that<00:07:40.025> you<00:07:40.266> did<00:07:40.909> that<00:07:41.134> enabled<00:07:42.177> you<00:07:42.338> to<00:07:42.579> navigate<00:07:43.221> uncertainty.

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And<00:07:44.683> the<00:07:44.843> book<00:07:45.084> is<00:07:45.325> the<00:07:45.470> result<00:07:45.823> of<00:07:45.952> that.

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And<00:07:46.514> I<00:07:47.076> came<00:07:47.253> out<00:07:47.333> with<00:07:47.477> it<00:07:47.574> now<00:07:47.895> because,<00:07:49.742> you<00:07:49.823> know,<00:07:50.048> we're<00:07:50.288> all<00:07:50.626> going<00:07:50.867> through<00:07:51.349> these<00:07:52.055> endless<00:07:52.393> ripple<00:07:52.650> effects<00:07:53.035> of<00:07:53.276> massive<00:07:53.662> change<00:07:54.192> through<00:07:54.336> the<00:07:54.561> pandemic.

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I<00:07:55.043> started<00:07:55.364> writing<00:07:55.750> it<00:07:56.248> during<00:07:56.424> the<00:07:56.489> pandemic.

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And,<00:07:58.079> uh,<00:07:58.802> and<00:07:58.898> so<00:07:59.139> how<00:07:59.525> am<00:07:59.557> I<00:07:59.621> going<00:07:59.717> to<00:07:59.862> build<00:08:00.183> upon<00:08:00.504> that?

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Well,<00:08:01.002> this<00:08:01.211> is<00:08:01.275> a<00:08:01.308> very<00:08:01.549> interesting<00:08:01.854> question.

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The—<00:08:04.761> so<00:08:04.857> it<00:08:04.986> came<00:08:05.227> out<00:08:05.323> on<00:08:05.468> Penguin<00:08:05.725> Random<00:08:06.030> House,<00:08:06.287> came<00:08:06.432> out<00:08:06.528> on<00:08:06.689> a,<00:08:06.865> on<00:08:07.074> a<00:08:07.106> major<00:08:07.476> press.

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And<00:08:08.359> yeah,<00:08:08.472> it's<00:08:08.680> a<00:08:08.761> big<00:08:08.889> publication.

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Uh,<00:08:10.367> and<00:08:10.463> it's—<00:08:10.688> yeah,<00:08:10.945> it<00:08:10.993> was,<00:08:11.250> uh,<00:08:11.411> you<00:08:11.443> know,<00:08:11.668> and<00:08:11.748> it<00:08:11.829> was—<00:08:12.246> it's<00:08:12.552> an<00:08:12.696> honor.

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And<00:08:13.435> they<00:08:13.596> did<00:08:13.692> a<00:08:13.756> great<00:08:13.917> job<00:08:14.302> of<00:08:14.399> getting<00:08:14.656> it<00:08:14.720> into<00:08:15.090> bookstores<00:08:15.507> nationwide<00:08:16.230> and<00:08:16.391> in<00:08:16.471> airports<00:08:16.889> and<00:08:16.953> all<00:08:17.050> that.

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So,<00:08:17.307> it's<00:08:17.435> a<00:08:17.452> lot<00:08:17.628> of<00:08:17.676> visibility.

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And<00:08:19.235> I'm<00:08:19.444> getting<00:08:20.022> people<00:08:20.328> who<00:08:20.424> reach<00:08:20.729> out<00:08:20.906> to<00:08:20.986> me<00:08:21.147> now<00:08:21.469> to<00:08:21.549> say,<00:08:21.726> "Hey,<00:08:21.951> I<00:08:22.015> read<00:08:22.127> this.

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I<00:08:22.513> read<00:08:22.674> the<00:08:22.754> book.

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Would<00:08:23.075> you<00:08:23.236> come<00:08:23.477> speak<00:08:23.782> to<00:08:23.847> my<00:08:24.505> law<00:08:24.666> firm<00:08:25.100> or<00:08:25.180> to<00:08:25.261> my<00:08:25.486> YPO<00:08:25.887> group<00:08:26.128> or<00:08:26.193> whatever?"<00:08:26.369> And<00:08:26.434> that's<00:08:26.675> great<00:08:27.317> because<00:08:27.896> one<00:08:28.056> of<00:08:28.137> the<00:08:28.217> things<00:08:28.780> that<00:08:28.940> a<00:08:29.101> book<00:08:29.406> does<00:08:29.744> is<00:08:29.840> it<00:08:29.985> raises<00:08:30.306> your<00:08:30.451> speaking<00:08:30.788> fees.

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And<00:08:31.206> so,<00:08:31.575> I<00:08:31.816> appreciate<00:08:33.921> that.

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But<00:08:35.753> I'm<00:08:36.556> also<00:08:36.814> thinking<00:08:37.151> about<00:08:37.842> how<00:08:38.019> does<00:08:39.043> it<00:08:39.063> position<00:08:40.413> me?

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One<00:08:41.552> of<00:08:41.616> the<00:08:41.712> things<00:08:41.937> that<00:08:42.017> I<00:08:42.193> am<00:08:42.418> ever<00:08:42.674> mindful<00:08:43.235> of<00:08:44.518> is<00:08:44.663> that<00:08:45.705> I<00:08:46.747> am<00:08:47.164> best<00:08:47.549> known<00:08:47.870> for<00:08:48.190> right<00:08:48.447> now<00:08:49.249> being<00:08:49.634> editor-in-chief<00:08:50.211> of<00:08:50.355> Entrepreneur<00:08:50.692> Magazine.

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But<00:08:51.494> there<00:08:51.654> is<00:08:51.750> a<00:08:51.879> problem<00:08:52.536> with<00:08:52.761> that,<00:08:53.097> and<00:08:53.242> that<00:08:53.482> is<00:08:53.579> that<00:08:53.883> I<00:08:53.979> don't<00:08:54.364> own<00:08:54.765> Entrepreneur<00:08:55.102> Magazine.

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It's<00:08:55.888> not<00:08:56.144> mine,<00:08:57.026> it's<00:08:57.187> the<00:08:57.267> Shea<00:08:57.507> family's.

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And<00:08:58.485> so<00:08:59.576> I<00:08:59.913> want<00:09:00.073> to<00:09:00.153> be<00:09:00.394> very<00:09:00.650> mindful<00:09:01.420> of<00:09:01.821> what<00:09:02.061> can<00:09:02.382> I<00:09:02.719> build<00:09:04.066> that<00:09:04.387> I<00:09:04.707> own,<00:09:05.188> what<00:09:05.365> foundation<00:09:06.006> can<00:09:06.167> I<00:09:06.327> create<00:09:07.466> so<00:09:07.834> that<00:09:08.315> I<00:09:08.492> am<00:09:08.652> not<00:09:09.133> just<00:09:09.294> solely<00:09:10.095> renting<00:09:10.673> somebody<00:09:11.282> else's<00:09:11.635> status.

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I<00:09:12.758> mean,<00:09:12.902> I<00:09:13.063> love<00:09:13.367> Entrepreneur.

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I'm<00:09:15.627> not<00:09:15.851> running<00:09:16.172> out<00:09:16.252> the<00:09:16.348> door.

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I'm<00:09:16.749> very<00:09:16.973> happy<00:09:17.470> to<00:09:17.630> be<00:09:17.791> there<00:09:17.951> and<00:09:18.015> to<00:09:18.095> continue<00:09:18.496> to<00:09:18.576> be<00:09:18.672> there.

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But<00:09:19.858> I<00:09:19.938> think<00:09:20.034> that<00:09:20.131> it<00:09:20.163> would<00:09:20.275> be<00:09:20.515> foolish<00:09:20.996> for<00:09:21.092> me<00:09:21.557> or<00:09:21.637> for<00:09:21.942> anyone<00:09:23.705> in<00:09:23.785> a<00:09:23.865> position<00:09:24.282> of<00:09:25.868> platform<00:09:26.461> that<00:09:26.605> they<00:09:26.686> don't<00:09:26.990> own<00:09:27.086> themselves<00:09:27.631> to<00:09:27.711> be<00:09:27.872> really<00:09:28.112> mindful<00:09:28.609> of<00:09:28.993> what<00:09:29.154> am<00:09:29.234> I<00:09:29.554> able<00:09:29.795> to<00:09:29.971> build<00:09:30.356> right<00:09:30.532> now<00:09:30.788> that<00:09:30.933> I<00:09:31.013> can<00:09:31.317> walk<00:09:31.574> away<00:09:31.974> with<00:09:32.295> later.

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And<00:09:33.353> so,<00:09:34.138> the<00:09:34.362> book<00:09:35.004> and<00:09:35.116> some<00:09:35.260> of<00:09:35.292> the<00:09:35.404> other<00:09:35.581> things<00:09:35.741> that<00:09:35.885> I<00:09:35.981> do,<00:09:36.302> podcasting<00:09:37.327> and<00:09:38.001> newsletter<00:09:38.946> and<00:09:39.026> a<00:09:39.042> lot<00:09:39.251> of<00:09:39.331> writing,<00:09:40.052> is<00:09:40.292> really<00:09:40.629> driven<00:09:41.110> very<00:09:41.286> much<00:09:41.591> by<00:09:42.714> trying<00:09:42.875> to<00:09:42.955> create<00:09:44.064> a<00:09:44.080> space<00:09:44.867> in<00:09:45.044> the<00:09:46.169> marketplace<00:09:46.956> of<00:09:47.213> ideas<00:09:48.001> and<00:09:48.258> business<00:09:48.579> leadership<00:09:49.608> that<00:09:50.090> is<00:09:50.829> distinctly<00:09:51.616> mine,<00:09:52.275> that<00:09:52.371> is<00:09:52.516> complementary<00:09:53.384> to<00:09:53.560> the<00:09:53.705> role<00:09:53.882> that<00:09:54.026> I<00:09:54.107> have<00:09:54.284> at<00:09:54.348> Entrepreneur.

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How<00:09:55.585> did<00:09:55.730> you<00:09:55.826> know<00:09:56.115> Build<00:09:56.437> for<00:09:56.597> Tomorrow<00:09:57.979> was<00:09:58.204> a<00:09:58.365> book<00:09:58.783> and<00:09:58.863> not<00:09:59.168> a<00:09:59.265> blog<00:09:59.667> post<00:10:00.004> or<00:10:00.068> a<00:10:00.149> series<00:10:00.615> of<00:10:00.711> blog<00:10:01.016> posts?

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Or<00:10:01.675> like,<00:10:02.382> how<00:10:02.479> do<00:10:02.543> you<00:10:02.639> get<00:10:02.784> to<00:10:02.864> the<00:10:02.945> point?

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Like,<00:10:03.298> as<00:10:03.378> a<00:10:03.507> writer,<00:10:03.748> you've<00:10:03.909> probably<00:10:04.150> written<00:10:04.471> all<00:10:04.648> sorts<00:10:04.905> of<00:10:04.969> things.

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You<00:10:05.275> write<00:10:05.435> a<00:10:05.451> newsletter,<00:10:06.014> you've<00:10:06.158> got<00:10:06.319> the<00:10:06.415> podcast,<00:10:06.817> all<00:10:06.898> these<00:10:07.058> different<00:10:07.364> things.

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How<00:10:08.503> did<00:10:08.680> you<00:10:08.760> know<00:10:08.904> like,<00:10:09.225> hey,<00:10:09.386> this<00:10:09.610> idea<00:10:10.573> is<00:10:10.829> worthy<00:10:11.215> of<00:10:11.311> a<00:10:11.471> book?

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You<00:10:13.011> know,<00:10:13.252> it's<00:10:13.637> funny.

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I<00:10:14.503> think<00:10:16.108> that<00:10:16.829> your<00:10:17.327> question<00:10:17.744> is<00:10:17.952> premised<00:10:18.354> on<00:10:18.434> a<00:10:18.530> real<00:10:18.835> problem,<00:10:19.557> and<00:10:19.637> that<00:10:19.733> problem<00:10:20.134> is<00:10:20.359> that<00:10:21.081> a<00:10:21.177> lot<00:10:23.567> of<00:10:23.664> business<00:10:23.984> books<00:10:24.386> could<00:10:24.530> have<00:10:24.610> been<00:10:24.706> blog<00:10:25.091> posts<00:10:25.589> and<00:10:25.733> a<00:10:25.749> lot<00:10:25.910> of<00:10:25.974> blog<00:10:26.230> posts<00:10:26.615> could<00:10:26.712> have<00:10:26.792> been<00:10:26.952> tweets.

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And<00:10:28.861> that's<00:10:30.225> a<00:10:30.305> problem.

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I<00:10:32.246> think<00:10:33.129> in<00:10:33.434> here,<00:10:34.638> I<00:10:34.798> will<00:10:34.959> just<00:10:35.779> risk<00:10:36.325> sounding<00:10:36.919> obnoxious,<00:10:37.787> but<00:10:38.510> I<00:10:38.655> think<00:10:38.832> that<00:10:39.057> that<00:10:39.314> is<00:10:40.519> in<00:10:40.663> many<00:10:40.904> ways<00:10:41.162> also<00:10:42.126> a<00:10:42.270> product<00:10:42.752> of<00:10:42.849> a<00:10:42.929> lot<00:10:43.090> of<00:10:43.154> people<00:10:43.411> not<00:10:43.716> writing<00:10:44.038> their<00:10:44.134> own<00:10:44.295> books.

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And<00:10:45.661> so,<00:10:46.207> they<00:10:46.384> have<00:10:46.561> a<00:10:46.689> particular<00:10:47.766> idea<00:10:48.392> and<00:10:48.473> then<00:10:48.569> they<00:10:48.634> basically<00:10:49.019> hire<00:10:49.373> someone<00:10:49.678> to<00:10:49.758> try<00:10:49.855> to<00:10:49.935> stretch<00:10:50.321> that<00:10:50.465> idea<00:10:50.867> out<00:10:50.980> into<00:10:51.188> a<00:10:51.285> book.

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And,<00:10:53.197> you<00:10:53.229> know,<00:10:53.310> that's<00:10:53.518> not<00:10:53.631> me<00:10:54.017> because<00:10:55.125> writing<00:10:55.398> is<00:10:55.463> what<00:10:55.543> I<00:10:55.623> do<00:10:55.768> for<00:10:55.848> a<00:10:55.929> living.

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And<00:10:56.684> so,<00:10:57.295> I<00:10:57.455> really<00:10:57.616> had<00:10:57.728> the<00:10:57.937> opposite<00:10:58.339> problem<00:10:58.982> and<00:10:59.159> that<00:10:59.400> was<00:11:00.347> I<00:11:00.427> wanted<00:11:00.620> to<00:11:00.700> make<00:11:00.844> sure<00:11:01.085> that<00:11:01.230> my<00:11:01.406> book<00:11:01.888> was<00:11:02.514> a<00:11:02.610> coherent<00:11:03.252> idea<00:11:03.958> and<00:11:04.134> not<00:11:04.455> a<00:11:04.600> collection<00:11:05.097> of<00:11:05.178> magazine<00:11:05.659> articles<00:11:07.007> because<00:11:07.825> that's<00:11:08.644> how<00:11:08.724> I<00:11:08.788> started<00:11:09.045> to<00:11:09.190> write<00:11:09.366> it.

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I<00:11:09.751> mean,<00:11:11.035> to<00:11:11.196> get<00:11:11.500> really<00:11:11.998> book<00:11:12.223> industry-ish<00:11:13.041> with<00:11:13.202> you,<00:11:13.426> I<00:11:14.566> came<00:11:14.790> up<00:11:14.871> with<00:11:14.967> a<00:11:15.689> proposal<00:11:16.251> and<00:11:16.331> I<00:11:16.556> worked<00:11:17.214> on<00:11:17.358> it<00:11:17.535> for<00:11:17.840> quite<00:11:18.016> a<00:11:18.160> while,<00:11:18.578> months,<00:11:18.963> with<00:11:19.059> my<00:11:19.685> book<00:11:19.846> agent.

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And<00:11:20.247> then,<00:11:20.905> he<00:11:21.001> went<00:11:21.210> out<00:11:21.450> and<00:11:21.868> we<00:11:22.173> had<00:11:22.285> an<00:11:22.413> auction<00:11:22.895> and<00:11:22.991> a<00:11:23.071> bunch<00:11:23.312> of<00:11:23.376> houses<00:11:24.259> bid<00:11:24.419> on<00:11:24.660> it<00:11:24.756> and<00:11:25.141> Penguin<00:11:25.398> Random<00:11:25.623> House<00:11:25.864> was<00:11:25.960> the<00:11:26.040> winner.

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Particularly<00:11:27.564> Harmony,<00:11:28.029> which<00:11:28.141> is<00:11:28.221> a<00:11:28.285> division<00:11:28.606> of<00:11:28.686> Penguin<00:11:28.927> Random<00:11:29.103> House.

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And<00:11:31.156> then<00:11:31.637> I<00:11:31.957> got<00:11:32.358> on<00:11:32.439> the<00:11:32.535> phone<00:11:32.936> with<00:11:33.160> my<00:11:33.914> editor<00:11:34.363> who<00:11:34.699> acquired<00:11:35.020> the<00:11:35.100> book,<00:11:35.421> Matthew<00:11:35.662> Benjamin,<00:11:36.143> incredibly<00:11:36.768> smart<00:11:37.249> editor,<00:11:38.211> and<00:11:38.516> he<00:11:38.708> basically<00:11:39.173> told<00:11:39.414> me,<00:11:40.151> all<00:11:40.183> right,<00:11:40.777> um,<00:11:41.514> really<00:11:41.675> excited.

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The<00:11:42.460> structure<00:11:42.974> that<00:11:43.182> you<00:11:43.423> pitched<00:11:43.920> in<00:11:44.000> your<00:11:44.144> proposal<00:11:44.705> is<00:11:44.802> not<00:11:44.962> going<00:11:45.074> to<00:11:45.202> work,<00:11:45.748> um,<00:11:46.068> but<00:11:46.229> you'll<00:11:46.405> figure<00:11:46.662> it<00:11:46.790> out<00:11:47.046> as<00:11:47.079> soon<00:11:47.223> as<00:11:47.287> you<00:11:47.367> start<00:11:47.592> writing.

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And<00:11:48.730> he<00:11:48.891> knew<00:11:49.436> because<00:11:49.933> he's<00:11:50.494> worked<00:11:50.654> with<00:11:50.815> enough<00:11:51.039> writers,<00:11:51.440> he<00:11:51.472> knew<00:11:51.697> that<00:11:52.001> as<00:11:52.098> a<00:11:52.162> magazine<00:11:53.300> writer<00:11:54.406> I<00:11:54.486> was<00:11:54.647> not<00:11:54.823> going<00:11:54.919> to<00:11:54.983> know<00:11:55.688> off<00:11:55.784> the<00:11:55.865> bat<00:11:56.105> how<00:11:56.201> to<00:11:56.329> write<00:11:56.522> a<00:11:56.666> book.

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Um,<00:11:57.788> I<00:11:57.852> was<00:11:57.948> going<00:11:58.028> to<00:11:58.060> have<00:11:58.188> to<00:11:58.493> learn,<00:11:59.150> learn<00:11:59.390> along<00:11:59.630> the<00:11:59.711> way,<00:11:59.951> because<00:12:00.111> what<00:12:00.255> I'm<00:12:00.496> used<00:12:00.736> to<00:12:00.928> is<00:12:01.073> writing<00:12:02.018> 3,<00:12:02.339> 4,<00:12:02.659> 5,000-word<00:12:03.701> pieces<00:12:04.117> that<00:12:04.214> are,<00:12:04.678> that<00:12:04.742> are<00:12:04.919> coherent,<00:12:06.505> completely<00:12:07.419> self-encapsulated<00:12:09.165> ideas.

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And<00:12:10.944> it<00:12:11.008> turns<00:12:11.313> out<00:12:11.633> that<00:12:11.793> you<00:12:11.970> can't<00:12:12.354> actually<00:12:12.611> just<00:12:12.851> write<00:12:13.156> like<00:12:13.412> 14<00:12:13.829> of<00:12:13.909> those<00:12:14.133> in<00:12:14.213> a<00:12:14.293> row<00:12:14.838> and<00:12:14.934> call<00:12:15.191> it<00:12:15.271> a<00:12:15.335> book.

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Uh,<00:12:16.216> that<00:12:16.377> doesn't<00:12:16.601> work.

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That's<00:12:17.018> a<00:12:17.338> short<00:12:17.595> story<00:12:17.899> collection.

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So<00:12:19.744> I<00:12:20.131> really<00:12:20.293> struggled<00:12:20.874> through<00:12:21.503> how<00:12:21.600> do<00:12:21.761> I<00:12:21.922> take<00:12:22.390> a<00:12:22.552> lot<00:12:22.746> of<00:12:22.875> ideas<00:12:23.375> that<00:12:23.520> I<00:12:23.682> have<00:12:24.004> that<00:12:24.166> all<00:12:26.183> are<00:12:26.280> going<00:12:26.748> in<00:12:27.167> different<00:12:27.409> directions.

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They're<00:12:28.458> engaging<00:12:29.007> with<00:12:29.586> not<00:12:29.812> just<00:12:30.069> why<00:12:30.311> do<00:12:30.456> people<00:12:30.794> panic<00:12:31.132> about<00:12:31.357> change,<00:12:31.679> but<00:12:31.760> then<00:12:31.905> how<00:12:32.017> do<00:12:32.162> they<00:12:32.243> manage<00:12:33.032> that<00:12:33.209> change,<00:12:33.595> and<00:12:33.660> then<00:12:33.772> how<00:12:33.933> do<00:12:34.078> they<00:12:34.175> prepare<00:12:34.577> for<00:12:34.722> the<00:12:34.819> future,<00:12:36.252> and<00:12:36.349> then<00:12:36.815> organize<00:12:37.315> them<00:12:37.476> in<00:12:37.572> a<00:12:37.637> way<00:12:37.798> that<00:12:38.023> feels<00:12:38.265> like<00:12:38.442> it<00:12:38.523> coherently<00:12:39.251> builds<00:12:39.591> upon<00:12:39.898> itself.

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And<00:12:41.581> I<00:12:41.597> will<00:12:41.678> tell<00:12:41.985> you,<00:12:43.199> one<00:12:43.296> of<00:12:43.328> the<00:12:43.377> best<00:12:43.603> ways<00:12:43.781> to<00:12:43.927> do<00:12:44.040> that<00:12:44.428> is<00:12:44.655> to<00:12:44.930> start<00:12:45.383> writing.

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And<00:12:46.413> then<00:12:46.654> have<00:12:46.879> someone<00:12:47.136> very<00:12:47.296> smart,<00:12:47.778> in<00:12:47.858> this<00:12:48.003> case<00:12:48.179> Matthew<00:12:48.420> Benjamin,<00:12:49.367> read<00:12:49.608> it<00:12:49.785> and<00:12:49.881> then<00:12:50.026> tell<00:12:50.331> you<00:12:50.427> why<00:12:50.603> it's<00:12:50.973> wrong.

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And<00:12:52.257> then<00:12:52.835> to<00:12:53.252> step<00:12:53.718> back<00:12:54.200> and<00:12:54.280> start<00:12:54.681> looking<00:12:55.163> at<00:12:55.468> what<00:12:55.950> other<00:12:56.223> successful<00:12:56.929> books<00:12:57.411> do.

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You're<00:12:58.245> not<00:12:58.454> copying<00:12:59.000> their<00:12:59.161> ideas,<00:12:59.963> but<00:13:00.060> you<00:13:00.284> are<00:13:00.445> looking<00:13:00.846> at<00:13:01.248> their<00:13:01.360> structure.

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How<00:13:02.452> do<00:13:02.484> they<00:13:02.628> structure<00:13:03.672> a<00:13:03.752> book,<00:13:04.378> and<00:13:04.619> what<00:13:04.731> are<00:13:04.796> they<00:13:05.101> doing<00:13:05.518> at<00:13:05.598> the<00:13:05.679> beginning<00:13:06.321> and<00:13:06.626> ends<00:13:06.979> of<00:13:07.204> every<00:13:07.445> chapter<00:13:08.312> to<00:13:08.408> make<00:13:08.793> it<00:13:09.114> feel<00:13:09.452> like<00:13:10.013> each<00:13:10.254> idea<00:13:10.656> is<00:13:10.961> building<00:13:11.394> upon<00:13:11.715> itself?

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Right,<00:13:12.550> because<00:13:12.822> what<00:13:12.982> you<00:13:13.143> definitely<00:13:13.463> don't<00:13:13.703> want—<00:13:13.944> and<00:13:14.104> this<00:13:14.344> is<00:13:14.569> the<00:13:15.466> book<00:13:15.850> is<00:13:15.963> a<00:13:16.027> blog<00:13:16.347> post<00:13:16.668> thing—<00:13:17.068> what<00:13:17.164> you<00:13:17.293> definitely<00:13:17.549> don't<00:13:17.709> want<00:13:17.869> is<00:13:17.966> a<00:13:18.030> book<00:13:18.190> that<00:13:18.655> functionally<00:13:19.215> repeats<00:13:19.712> the<00:13:19.856> idea<00:13:20.417> over<00:13:20.738> and<00:13:20.898> over<00:13:21.138> and<00:13:21.298> over<00:13:21.459> again.

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That's<00:13:21.875> tedious.

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So<00:13:23.413> what<00:13:23.862> you<00:13:23.958> should<00:13:24.343> have<00:13:25.240> is<00:13:25.336> something<00:13:25.705> that<00:13:25.961> makes<00:13:26.185> people<00:13:26.762> feel<00:13:27.003> like<00:13:27.227> they<00:13:27.467> are<00:13:27.644> progressing<00:13:28.589> through<00:13:29.230> a<00:13:29.246> very<00:13:29.566> complicated<00:13:30.448> big<00:13:30.752> idea<00:13:31.633> by<00:13:31.874> giving<00:13:32.194> them<00:13:32.370> a<00:13:32.531> lot<00:13:32.851> of<00:13:33.075> really<00:13:33.412> interesting<00:13:33.877> small<00:13:34.357> ideas<00:13:35.238> that<00:13:35.559> are<00:13:35.719> going<00:13:36.056> to<00:13:36.841> be<00:13:37.017> ever<00:13:37.193> more<00:13:37.482> logical<00:13:37.978> because<00:13:38.844> of<00:13:38.924> the<00:13:39.004> way<00:13:39.116> that<00:13:39.260> you're<00:13:39.404> laying<00:13:39.661> them<00:13:39.821> out.

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Um,<00:13:41.167> I<00:13:41.568> tell<00:13:41.744> stories<00:13:42.867> through<00:13:43.187> storytelling,<00:13:44.534> uh,<00:13:45.014> that<00:13:45.175> sort<00:13:45.351> of<00:13:45.575> was<00:13:45.768> a<00:13:45.816> circular<00:13:46.489> statement,<00:13:47.515> but<00:13:48.076> by<00:13:48.220> which<00:13:48.397> I<00:13:48.413> mean<00:13:48.637> that<00:13:49.759> what<00:13:49.903> I,<00:13:50.096> what<00:13:50.224> I<00:13:50.304> tend<00:13:50.480> to<00:13:50.561> do<00:13:50.721> is<00:13:50.865> I,<00:13:51.106> I<00:13:51.186> have<00:13:51.298> a<00:13:51.442> big<00:13:51.667> idea,<00:13:52.404> I<00:13:52.468> want<00:13:52.612> to<00:13:52.660> articulate<00:13:53.382> it<00:13:53.766> by<00:13:54.087> telling<00:13:54.648> a,<00:13:54.873> a,<00:13:55.434> a<00:13:55.450> story.

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And<00:13:57.437> I,<00:13:57.614> because<00:13:57.870> I'm<00:13:58.030> a,<00:13:58.175> I'm<00:13:58.511> a<00:13:58.655> reporter,<00:13:59.441> uh,<00:13:59.697> by<00:13:59.874> nature,<00:14:00.322> I,<00:14:00.579> these<00:14:00.755> are<00:14:00.819> stories<00:14:01.076> that<00:14:01.220> I've<00:14:01.380> reported<00:14:01.781> out<00:14:01.861> myself.

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So<00:14:02.406> they're,<00:14:02.903> they're<00:14:03.224> interviews<00:14:03.769> and,<00:14:04.089> and<00:14:04.170> experiences<00:14:04.731> that<00:14:04.811> I've,<00:14:05.067> I've<00:14:05.211> done<00:14:05.308> myself<00:14:05.708> instead<00:14:06.029> of<00:14:06.173> hiring<00:14:06.494> a<00:14:06.510> ghostwriter<00:14:07.135> that<00:14:08.274> is<00:14:08.675> just<00:14:08.819> sort<00:14:08.996> of<00:14:09.220> working<00:14:09.541> off<00:14:09.653> of<00:14:09.798> public<00:14:10.119> material.

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And<00:14:12.846> so,<00:14:13.311> anyway,<00:14:13.905> I'll<00:14:14.033> tell<00:14:14.145> you<00:14:14.274> the<00:14:14.434> breakthrough<00:14:14.771> moment<00:14:15.172> was<00:14:15.557> that<00:14:15.653> I<00:14:15.878> picked<00:14:16.199> up<00:14:16.776> Essentialism<00:14:17.803> by<00:14:18.220> Greg<00:14:18.445> McKeown.

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And<00:14:20.209> I<00:14:21.252> just<00:14:21.493> looked<00:14:21.669> at<00:14:21.750> his<00:14:21.910> structure.

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How<00:14:23.049> did<00:14:23.258> he<00:14:23.290> structure<00:14:23.980> that<00:14:24.156> book?

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The<00:14:24.637> way<00:14:24.685> he<00:14:24.798> structured<00:14:25.183> that<00:14:25.279> book<00:14:25.520> was<00:14:25.921> that<00:14:26.322> book<00:14:26.466> is<00:14:26.562> in<00:14:26.787> 4<00:14:27.381> sections<00:14:28.167> and<00:14:28.327> each<00:14:28.488> section<00:14:28.808> has<00:14:29.049> 4<00:14:29.290> chapters<00:14:29.835> in<00:14:30.617> it.

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And<00:14:31.279> those<00:14:31.536> 4<00:14:31.712> sections<00:14:32.739> move<00:14:33.204> you<00:14:33.750> through<00:14:34.905> the<00:14:35.146> big<00:14:35.451> idea,<00:14:36.093> and<00:14:36.270> each<00:14:36.430> of<00:14:36.527> those<00:14:36.816> chapters<00:14:37.859> helps<00:14:38.276> you<00:14:39.063> gain<00:14:39.384> a<00:14:39.544> great<00:14:39.962> understanding<00:14:40.909> of<00:14:41.712> and<00:14:42.129> immersiveness<00:14:44.120> into—<00:14:44.521> whatever,<00:14:44.778> I'm<00:14:44.938> making<00:14:45.179> up<00:14:45.323> words<00:14:45.564> now—<00:14:47.186> into<00:14:47.426> this<00:14:47.587> idea.

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And<00:14:49.256> once<00:14:49.433> I<00:14:49.449> saw<00:14:49.834> that,<00:14:50.075> I<00:14:50.316> thought,<00:14:51.841> what<00:14:52.082> would<00:14:52.258> my<00:14:52.563> version<00:14:52.965> of<00:14:53.045> that<00:14:53.270> look<00:14:53.510> like?

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I<00:14:54.008> basically<00:14:54.554> put<00:14:54.794> all<00:14:54.955> of<00:14:55.035> my<00:14:55.372> ideas<00:14:55.854> down<00:14:56.239> onto<00:14:56.480> a<00:14:56.512> sheet<00:14:56.753> of<00:14:56.881> paper,<00:14:57.218> and<00:14:57.556> I<00:14:57.620> started<00:14:58.005> moving<00:14:58.342> them<00:14:58.438> around,<00:14:59.466> and<00:14:59.530> then<00:14:59.626> I<00:14:59.851> realized,<00:15:00.413> oh<00:15:00.429> my<00:15:00.589> gosh,<00:15:01.377> I<00:15:01.474> have<00:15:01.620> been<00:15:01.717> telling<00:15:02.040> the<00:15:02.121> story<00:15:02.671> that<00:15:02.768> was<00:15:03.237> never<00:15:03.479> central<00:15:04.142> to<00:15:04.304> the<00:15:04.465> message<00:15:05.274> but<00:15:05.597> was<00:15:05.759> always<00:15:06.017> something<00:15:06.276> that<00:15:06.405> people<00:15:06.631> really<00:15:06.809> connected<00:15:07.133> with,<00:15:07.618> which<00:15:07.779> is<00:15:07.860> that<00:15:08.022> change<00:15:08.426> happens<00:15:08.749> in<00:15:08.960> 4<00:15:09.313> phases:<00:15:09.859> panic,<00:15:10.422> adaptation,<00:15:11.000> new<00:15:11.161> normal,<00:15:11.563> and<00:15:11.723> wouldn't<00:15:11.948> go<00:15:12.109> back.

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I've<00:15:12.896> been<00:15:12.993> telling<00:15:13.185> this<00:15:13.314> story<00:15:13.571> for<00:15:14.616> a<00:15:14.632> long<00:15:14.857> time<00:15:15.419> and<00:15:15.564> people<00:15:15.821> really<00:15:16.062> resonate<00:15:16.463> with<00:15:16.785> it.

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And<00:15:17.251> I've<00:15:17.829> always<00:15:18.151> found<00:15:18.360> that<00:15:18.473> it's<00:15:19.219> a<00:15:19.364> really<00:15:19.672> good<00:15:19.835> framework<00:15:20.483> for<00:15:20.726> a<00:15:20.807> lot<00:15:20.969> of<00:15:21.002> the<00:15:21.212> other<00:15:21.456> ideas<00:15:21.780> that<00:15:21.877> I<00:15:22.023> have.

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And<00:15:23.012> I<00:15:23.093> thought,<00:15:23.320> wait<00:15:23.563> a<00:15:23.579> second,<00:15:25.670> that's<00:15:26.075> the<00:15:26.172> book.

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Each<00:15:27.960> of<00:15:28.042> those<00:15:28.369> is<00:15:28.516> the<00:15:28.614> sections,<00:15:29.235> right?

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Like,<00:15:29.578> if<00:15:29.660> I<00:15:29.742> were<00:15:29.823> to<00:15:29.970> just<00:15:30.052> steal<00:15:30.183> basically<00:15:30.346> Greg<00:15:30.412> McKeown's<00:15:30.591> structure,<00:15:30.787> which<00:15:30.853> he<00:15:30.885> didn't<00:15:31.032> come<00:15:31.114> up<00:15:33.132> I'm<00:15:33.292> sure<00:15:33.436> he<00:15:33.533> just<00:15:33.645> stole<00:15:33.789> it<00:15:33.918> from<00:15:34.014> somebody<00:15:34.335> else,<00:15:34.495> just<00:15:34.672> a<00:15:34.736> 4-section<00:15:35.843> book.

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Each<00:15:37.062> of<00:15:37.126> those—<00:15:37.543> my<00:15:37.720> section<00:15:38.169> 1<00:15:38.329> can<00:15:38.409> be<00:15:38.506> panic,<00:15:38.826> my<00:15:38.923> section<00:15:39.292> 2<00:15:39.532> is<00:15:39.693> adaptation,<00:15:40.126> my<00:15:40.206> section—<00:15:40.832> and<00:15:40.912> so<00:15:41.153> on.

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And<00:15:41.538> then<00:15:41.794> I<00:15:41.939> have<00:15:42.051> my<00:15:42.195> chapters,<00:15:42.757> which<00:15:42.933> is<00:15:43.078> where<00:15:43.302> I<00:15:43.479> arrange<00:15:44.586> the<00:15:44.826> big<00:15:44.987> ideas<00:15:45.323> that<00:15:45.420> I<00:15:45.484> have,<00:15:45.724> and<00:15:45.789> then<00:15:45.869> I<00:15:45.949> have<00:15:46.045> to<00:15:46.126> make<00:15:46.206> sure<00:15:46.430> that<00:15:46.527> they<00:15:46.671> all<00:15:46.767> coherently<00:15:47.810> flow.

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It<00:15:48.628> was<00:15:48.756> a<00:15:48.933> lot<00:15:49.190> of<00:15:49.334> work,<00:15:50.200> and<00:15:51.082> the<00:15:51.179> result<00:15:51.580> of<00:15:51.660> that<00:15:51.997> is<00:15:52.125> something<00:15:52.302> that<00:15:52.398> I'm<00:15:52.526> really<00:15:53.425> proud<00:15:53.729> of,<00:15:54.949> but<00:15:55.815> that<00:15:55.975> I<00:15:56.136> also<00:15:56.392> now<00:15:56.713> know<00:15:58.221> has<00:15:58.478> to<00:15:58.702> come<00:15:59.119> from<00:15:59.521> doing.

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Mm-hmm.

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You<00:16:01.669> know,<00:16:01.766> it<00:16:01.830> would<00:16:02.006> be<00:16:02.166> interesting<00:16:02.647> to<00:16:03.112> learn<00:16:03.289> from<00:16:03.449> you<00:16:03.609> as<00:16:03.834> well<00:16:04.315> is<00:16:04.475> how<00:16:04.652> you<00:16:04.892> launched<00:16:05.293> the<00:16:05.437> book,<00:16:05.758> what<00:16:05.854> preparations<00:16:06.464> you<00:16:06.560> were<00:16:06.592> making<00:16:06.993> as<00:16:07.121> you<00:16:07.297> launched<00:16:07.762> it.

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And<00:16:08.901> because<00:16:09.221> I'm<00:16:09.446> sure<00:16:09.622> it's<00:16:09.799> similar<00:16:10.183> to<00:16:10.328> like<00:16:10.504> launching<00:16:10.889> a<00:16:10.969> product<00:16:11.546> or<00:16:11.691> launching<00:16:12.011> kind<00:16:12.124> of<00:16:12.252> anything<00:16:12.653> in<00:16:12.749> today's<00:16:13.070> day<00:16:13.230> and<00:16:13.374> age,<00:16:14.096> but<00:16:14.192> a<00:16:14.272> book<00:16:14.577> probably<00:16:14.914> even<00:16:15.298> more<00:16:15.491> so<00:16:15.731> because<00:16:16.517> you<00:16:16.597> kind<00:16:16.757> of<00:16:16.838> got<00:16:16.918> to<00:16:16.998> build<00:16:17.174> a<00:16:17.238> community<00:16:17.880> around<00:16:18.104> it.

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You've<00:16:18.345> got<00:16:18.441> to<00:16:18.521> build<00:16:18.682> an<00:16:18.826> audience,<00:16:19.163> all<00:16:19.243> these<00:16:19.403> types<00:16:19.644> of<00:16:19.708> things.

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So<00:16:20.509> what<00:16:20.622> did<00:16:20.766> you—<00:16:21.167> what<00:16:21.327> were<00:16:21.472> like<00:16:21.648> the<00:16:21.728> 6<00:16:22.129> months<00:16:22.434> or<00:16:22.466> a<00:16:22.594> year<00:16:22.834> leading<00:16:23.091> up<00:16:23.235> to<00:16:23.331> the<00:16:23.476> actual<00:16:23.877> like,<00:16:24.117> hey,<00:16:24.438> we're<00:16:24.775> going—<00:16:25.576> this<00:16:25.737> thing<00:16:25.977> is<00:16:26.057> coming<00:16:26.442> out<00:16:26.538> in<00:16:26.635> November<00:16:27.260> 2022?

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So,<00:16:28.863> a<00:16:29.087> book<00:16:29.264> is<00:16:29.344> an<00:16:29.424> incredibly<00:16:29.905> hard<00:16:30.145> thing<00:16:30.306> to<00:16:30.386> launch,<00:16:30.867> incredibly<00:16:31.332> hard.

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I,<00:16:31.748> I<00:16:31.829> would<00:16:31.973> say<00:16:32.213> harder<00:16:32.550> than<00:16:32.630> a<00:16:32.694> product.

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And<00:16:33.271> the<00:16:33.416> reason<00:16:33.592> for<00:16:33.704> that<00:16:33.832> is<00:16:33.912> because<00:16:34.137> you<00:16:34.233> can<00:16:34.393> revise<00:16:34.810> the<00:16:34.938> product,<00:16:35.676> but<00:16:35.740> you<00:16:35.820> can't<00:16:35.964> revise<00:16:36.237> the<00:16:36.317> book.

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So,<00:16:37.744> you<00:16:37.776> know,<00:16:37.840> I<00:16:37.936> mean,<00:16:38.160> you<00:16:38.305> should,<00:16:39.058> if<00:16:39.186> you're<00:16:39.282> putting<00:16:39.507> out<00:16:39.603> a<00:16:39.667> product,<00:16:39.988> you<00:16:40.068> should<00:16:40.389> have<00:16:40.565> put<00:16:40.709> out<00:16:40.821> a<00:16:40.869> minimum<00:16:41.206> viable<00:16:41.591> product<00:16:42.008> and<00:16:42.088> then<00:16:42.312> learn<00:16:42.569> from<00:16:42.729> what<00:16:42.889> people<00:16:43.114> say<00:16:43.450> and<00:16:43.594> then<00:16:43.851> revise<00:16:44.252> the<00:16:44.332> product<00:16:45.278> and,<00:16:45.598> um,<00:16:45.919> and<00:16:46.079> revise<00:16:46.400> who<00:16:46.480> you're<00:16:46.640> targeting<00:16:47.073> it<00:16:47.137> to<00:16:47.442> and<00:16:47.522> everything.

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But<00:16:48.323> you<00:16:48.436> don't<00:16:49.045> have<00:16:49.397> that<00:16:50.087> luxury<00:16:50.567> with<00:16:50.728> the<00:16:50.808> book.

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The<00:16:51.209> book<00:16:51.481> is<00:16:51.625> the<00:16:51.706> book.

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And,<00:16:53.373> um,<00:16:53.854> and<00:16:54.014> so,<00:16:54.976> the<00:16:55.152> first<00:16:55.457> thing<00:16:55.554> that<00:16:55.714> you<00:16:55.811> do<00:16:56.662> is<00:16:57.143> that<00:16:57.304> you<00:16:57.545> start<00:16:57.785> preparing<00:16:58.363> for<00:16:58.604> this<00:16:59.471> long<00:16:59.808> before<00:17:00.210> you<00:17:00.354> have<00:17:00.531> the<00:17:00.611> book.

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Like,<00:17:01.494> long.

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Like,<00:17:02.297> don't<00:17:02.698> write<00:17:03.019> the<00:17:03.180> book<00:17:04.609> and<00:17:04.705> then<00:17:04.946> figure<00:17:05.171> out<00:17:05.251> how<00:17:05.283> to<00:17:05.412> market<00:17:05.749> it.

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No,<00:17:07.178> the<00:17:07.258> other<00:17:07.354> way<00:17:07.467> around.

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Start<00:17:09.185> years<00:17:09.698> early.

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So<00:17:10.870> for<00:17:10.951> me,<00:17:11.448> for<00:17:11.513> example,<00:17:12.091> it<00:17:12.171> started<00:17:12.508> with,<00:17:12.652> you<00:17:12.685> know,<00:17:12.813> to<00:17:12.957> go<00:17:13.054> back<00:17:13.295> to<00:17:13.375> that<00:17:14.483> idea<00:17:14.804> that<00:17:14.964> I<00:17:15.061> had<00:17:15.446> shared<00:17:16.409> of<00:17:16.570> the<00:17:16.746> difference<00:17:17.019> between<00:17:17.308> horizontal<00:17:17.951> thinking<00:17:18.256> and<00:17:18.352> vertical<00:17:18.657> thinking.

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Once<00:17:20.423> I<00:17:21.306> got<00:17:21.885> the<00:17:22.029> idea<00:17:22.286> of<00:17:22.367> vertical<00:17:22.752> thinking.

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And<00:17:23.315> I<00:17:23.395> was<00:17:23.556> thinking,<00:17:24.199> how<00:17:24.440> can,<00:17:25.002> how<00:17:25.114> can<00:17:25.564> everything<00:17:26.062> that<00:17:26.223> I<00:17:26.544> do<00:17:27.991> build<00:17:28.473> towards<00:17:28.730> something<00:17:29.099> larger,<00:17:29.662> even<00:17:29.838> if<00:17:29.935> I<00:17:30.079> don't<00:17:30.369> exactly<00:17:30.722> know<00:17:30.883> what<00:17:31.027> that<00:17:31.204> is?

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One<00:17:32.024> of<00:17:32.072> the<00:17:32.152> first<00:17:32.329> things<00:17:32.490> that<00:17:32.570> I<00:17:32.731> did<00:17:33.357> was<00:17:33.438> that<00:17:33.550> I<00:17:33.614> created<00:17:33.952> a<00:17:34.000> spreadsheet,<00:17:34.980> and<00:17:35.044> that<00:17:35.141> spreadsheet<00:17:35.543> is<00:17:35.623> called<00:17:36.185> Good<00:17:36.507> Contacts.

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And<00:17:38.178> literally<00:17:38.756> everybody<00:17:39.238> that<00:17:39.399> I<00:17:39.544> met<00:17:39.961> for<00:17:40.427> years<00:17:41.343> started<00:17:41.648> going<00:17:41.873> into<00:17:42.034> that<00:17:42.195> spreadsheet.

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That<00:17:43.079> was<00:17:43.175> not<00:17:43.271> something<00:17:43.561> I<00:17:43.657> did<00:17:43.818> before,<00:17:44.300> like<00:17:44.605> years<00:17:44.942> and<00:17:45.103> years<00:17:45.408> worth<00:17:45.601> of<00:17:45.730> great<00:17:45.907> contacts<00:17:46.453> that<00:17:46.533> I<00:17:46.614> just,<00:17:46.967> I<00:17:47.080> I<00:17:47.112> didn't<00:17:47.417> attempt<00:17:47.674> to<00:17:47.754> keep<00:17:47.979> up<00:17:48.059> with<00:17:48.171> anybody.

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I<00:17:48.637> didn't<00:17:48.798> hold<00:17:49.022> on<00:17:49.103> to<00:17:49.183> their<00:17:49.279> email<00:17:49.440> addresses.

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Why<00:17:50.034> didn't<00:17:50.227> I<00:17:50.323> do<00:17:50.484> that?

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Because<00:17:51.206> I<00:17:51.286> wasn't<00:17:51.591> thinking<00:17:52.250> about<00:17:52.475> how<00:17:52.571> to<00:17:52.731> collect<00:17:53.117> things.

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And<00:17:54.080> so,<00:17:55.220> I<00:17:55.300> have<00:17:55.541> that.

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And<00:17:56.890> I've<00:17:57.532> thought<00:17:58.030> for<00:17:58.191> years,<00:17:59.154> one<00:17:59.475> day,<00:18:00.101> I<00:18:00.182> will<00:18:00.278> have<00:18:00.439> a<00:18:00.519> book.

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And<00:18:01.787> I<00:18:01.868> just<00:18:02.028> knew<00:18:02.189> that<00:18:02.285> that<00:18:02.847> had<00:18:03.184> to<00:18:03.329> be<00:18:03.473> part<00:18:04.035> of<00:18:04.453> my<00:18:04.533> kind<00:18:05.561> of<00:18:05.657> growth<00:18:07.006> as<00:18:07.921> a<00:18:08.049> brand,<00:18:08.852> as<00:18:09.029> a,<00:18:09.511> you<00:18:09.607> know,<00:18:09.832> in<00:18:09.976> positioning<00:18:10.458> myself.

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And<00:18:11.373> so,<00:18:12.717> So<00:18:12.913> I<00:18:13.002> was<00:18:13.162> thinking,<00:18:15.290> one<00:18:15.468> day<00:18:15.694> I<00:18:15.791> will<00:18:15.952> need<00:18:16.421> all<00:18:16.582> these<00:18:16.760> people<00:18:17.163> that<00:18:17.260> I'm<00:18:17.406> meeting<00:18:17.890> to<00:18:18.762> help<00:18:19.021> me.

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So<00:18:20.377> what<00:18:20.474> am<00:18:20.555> I<00:18:20.636> going<00:18:20.813> to<00:18:20.942> do?

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I<00:18:21.782> am<00:18:21.928> not<00:18:22.024> going<00:18:22.186> to<00:18:22.396> ask<00:18:22.638> anybody<00:18:22.961> for<00:18:23.139> anything<00:18:23.965> for<00:18:24.907> years.

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And<00:18:26.466> instead,<00:18:27.019> I'm<00:18:27.181> just<00:18:27.343> going<00:18:27.522> to<00:18:27.863> do—<00:18:28.253> I'm<00:18:28.399> going<00:18:28.578> to<00:18:28.886> do<00:18:28.935> favors.

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I'm<00:18:30.203> going<00:18:30.510> to<00:18:30.688> be—<00:18:31.076> I'm<00:18:31.496> going<00:18:31.609> to,<00:18:32.127> you<00:18:32.224> know,<00:18:32.450> look,<00:18:32.709> this<00:18:32.871> is—<00:18:33.420> I<00:18:33.453> should<00:18:33.614> say,<00:18:33.922> this<00:18:34.100> is<00:18:34.245> one<00:18:34.633> way<00:18:34.811> to<00:18:35.102> phrase<00:18:35.312> it,<00:18:35.377> which<00:18:35.539> is<00:18:35.619> transactional.

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The<00:18:36.331> other<00:18:36.428> way<00:18:36.654> is<00:18:36.735> like,<00:18:37.059> I<00:18:37.156> like<00:18:37.398> building<00:18:37.705> relationships.

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I<00:18:38.433> like<00:18:38.611> meeting<00:18:38.853> people.

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I<00:18:39.419> like<00:18:40.333> understanding<00:18:40.798> how<00:18:41.054> I<00:18:41.134> can<00:18:41.231> be<00:18:41.359> helpful<00:18:41.680> to<00:18:41.760> them,<00:18:41.936> how<00:18:42.032> they<00:18:42.177> can<00:18:42.257> be<00:18:42.337> helpful<00:18:42.578> to<00:18:42.674> me.

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This<00:18:43.123> is,<00:18:43.363> you<00:18:43.411> know,<00:18:43.604> this<00:18:43.716> is<00:18:43.860> life.

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And,<00:18:45.047> and<00:18:45.464> so<00:18:45.624> I<00:18:45.705> try<00:18:45.881> never<00:18:46.122> to<00:18:46.186> be<00:18:46.506> like<00:18:47.068> purely<00:18:47.388> transactional.

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But<00:18:48.270> let's<00:18:48.431> be<00:18:48.591> honest,<00:18:48.992> I<00:18:49.008> mean,<00:18:49.216> you<00:18:49.249> know,<00:18:49.778> we<00:18:49.954> all<00:18:50.259> have<00:18:50.419> to<00:18:50.515> think,<00:18:51.542> the<00:18:51.622> people<00:18:51.878> who<00:18:51.959> we<00:18:52.055> meet,<00:18:52.424> how<00:18:52.520> can<00:18:52.680> they—<00:18:53.386> how<00:18:53.482> can<00:18:53.626> we<00:18:53.722> kind<00:18:53.883> of<00:18:53.963> grow<00:18:54.204> together?

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So,<00:18:56.689> so<00:18:57.074> I,<00:18:58.132> I<00:18:58.148> mean,<00:18:58.373> I<00:18:58.453> just,<00:18:59.094> I<00:18:59.175> just<00:18:59.319> kept<00:18:59.559> up<00:18:59.656> with<00:18:59.800> everybody<00:19:00.377> for<00:19:00.538> years<00:19:00.778> and<00:19:00.858> years<00:19:01.019> and<00:19:01.163> years.

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And,<00:19:03.328> and<00:19:03.729> I<00:19:03.825> also<00:19:04.611> focused<00:19:04.947> a<00:19:05.092> lot<00:19:05.413> on<00:19:05.509> building<00:19:05.845> a<00:19:05.894> social<00:19:06.230> following.

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And<00:19:07.922> really<00:19:08.326> deeply<00:19:08.648> engaging<00:19:09.003> that<00:19:09.165> social<00:19:09.471> following.

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Not<00:19:10.197> just<00:19:10.423> like<00:19:10.923> putting<00:19:11.149> stuff<00:19:11.472> out<00:19:11.827> again,<00:19:12.214> not<00:19:12.375> just<00:19:12.521> like<00:19:12.617> hiring<00:19:13.021> a<00:19:13.102> ghostwriter<00:19:13.586> to<00:19:13.731> write<00:19:13.828> my<00:19:13.924> social<00:19:14.231> posts<00:19:14.537> for<00:19:14.586> me,<00:19:14.796> but<00:19:14.941> no,<00:19:15.118> like<00:19:15.441> me<00:19:16.086> and<00:19:16.167> then<00:19:16.409> me<00:19:16.732> in<00:19:16.813> the<00:19:16.975> DMs<00:19:17.544> responding<00:19:18.112> to<00:19:18.274> everybody.

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And<00:19:20.709> then,<00:19:21.115> identifying<00:19:22.024> some<00:19:22.251> of<00:19:22.316> the<00:19:22.495> big<00:19:22.965> hit<00:19:23.371> opportunities.

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So,<00:19:24.426> either<00:19:24.686> whether<00:19:24.930> that's<00:19:25.092> big<00:19:25.333> podcasts<00:19:26.283> or<00:19:26.943> years<00:19:27.185> and<00:19:27.330> years<00:19:27.587> ago,<00:19:29.503> I<00:19:29.584> helped<00:19:29.922> NASDAQ<00:19:30.711> out<00:19:31.291> with<00:19:31.596> an<00:19:31.854> event,<00:19:32.401> a<00:19:32.514> virtual<00:19:32.901> event<00:19:33.126> that<00:19:33.223> they—<00:19:33.802> so,<00:19:34.012> they<00:19:34.108> reached<00:19:34.350> out<00:19:34.495> to<00:19:34.527> me<00:19:34.640> and<00:19:34.707> they're<00:19:34.774> like,<00:19:34.908> "Hey,<00:19:35.076> would<00:19:35.160> you<00:19:35.244> help<00:19:35.412> put<00:19:35.597> this<00:19:35.748> together?"<00:19:36.101> And<00:19:36.152> I<00:19:36.185> said,<00:19:36.353> "Yeah,<00:19:36.504> absolutely."<00:19:37.630> But<00:19:37.806> you<00:19:37.902> better<00:19:38.127> believe<00:19:38.545> that<00:19:38.769> years<00:19:39.010> and<00:19:39.107> years<00:19:39.347> later,<00:19:40.070> when<00:19:40.231> my<00:19:40.311> book<00:19:40.471> was<00:19:40.632> coming<00:19:40.937> out,<00:19:41.354> I<00:19:41.451> know<00:19:41.659> they<00:19:41.756> have<00:19:41.916> a<00:19:41.997> billboard<00:19:42.382> in<00:19:42.462> Times<00:19:42.751> Square<00:19:42.960> and<00:19:43.040> they<00:19:43.137> occasionally<00:19:43.666> put<00:19:43.843> books<00:19:44.084> up<00:19:44.309> on<00:19:44.405> it.

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Can<00:19:45.047> they<00:19:45.208> do<00:19:45.288> that<00:19:45.449> for<00:19:45.561> me?

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The<00:19:46.011> answer<00:19:46.171> was<00:19:46.556> yes,<00:19:46.813> because<00:19:47.118> I<00:19:47.215> built<00:19:47.375> a<00:19:47.439> great<00:19:47.616> relationship.

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So<00:19:48.595> they<00:19:48.676> put<00:19:48.820> that<00:19:48.981> up<00:19:49.061> on<00:19:49.125> the—<00:19:49.527> so,<00:19:50.105> um,<00:19:50.410> so<00:19:50.651> I'm<00:19:50.811> spending<00:19:51.148> years<00:19:51.389> and<00:19:51.534> years<00:19:51.791> doing<00:19:52.112> this.

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I<00:19:52.995> did<00:19:53.236> hire<00:19:53.637> PR,<00:19:54.279> and<00:19:54.440> in<00:19:54.584> this,<00:19:54.841> in<00:19:55.242> this<00:19:55.387> case,<00:19:55.564> I<00:19:55.644> hired<00:19:55.885> 40APR,<00:19:56.752> which<00:19:56.912> is<00:19:56.993> one<00:19:57.089> of<00:19:57.153> the<00:19:57.249> big,<00:19:57.795> um,<00:19:58.213> book<00:19:58.454> PR<00:19:58.694> firms.

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And,<00:19:59.883> um,<00:20:00.605> you<00:20:00.701> know,<00:20:01.022> they,<00:20:01.809> they<00:20:01.970> delivered<00:20:02.307> basically<00:20:02.708> what<00:20:02.853> everyone<00:20:03.110> told<00:20:03.431> me,<00:20:03.640> would<00:20:03.736> happen.

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Um,<00:20:04.778> literally<00:20:05.179> every,<00:20:05.580> every<00:20:05.900> author<00:20:06.237> that<00:20:06.333> I've<00:20:06.478> ever<00:20:07.119> talked<00:20:07.440> to<00:20:07.584> about<00:20:07.841> this,<00:20:08.081> my<00:20:08.466> book<00:20:08.706> agent,<00:20:09.043> my,<00:20:09.749> my<00:20:09.925> book<00:20:10.486> editor,<00:20:11.048> you<00:20:11.112> know,<00:20:11.208> they<00:20:11.352> all<00:20:11.448> said,<00:20:12.731> um,<00:20:12.972> don't,<00:20:13.597> don't,<00:20:14.399> uh,<00:20:14.575> have<00:20:14.800> too<00:20:15.040> high<00:20:15.297> of<00:20:15.441> expectations<00:20:16.644> for<00:20:16.820> PR<00:20:17.365> because<00:20:17.926> a<00:20:18.023> lot<00:20:18.343> of<00:20:18.889> the<00:20:18.953> success<00:20:19.370> of<00:20:19.450> a<00:20:19.530> book<00:20:19.722> is<00:20:19.851> just<00:20:20.027> going<00:20:20.252> to—<00:20:20.733> it's<00:20:20.909> going<00:20:21.133> to<00:20:21.230> rely<00:20:21.550> on<00:20:21.631> the<00:20:21.871> author.

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It<00:20:22.416> just<00:20:22.657> is.

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It's<00:20:23.378> very<00:20:23.859> hard<00:20:24.180> to<00:20:24.276> pitch<00:20:24.453> a<00:20:24.517> book.

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I,<00:20:25.142> I<00:20:25.238> know<00:20:25.399> that<00:20:25.703> because<00:20:26.024> I'm,<00:20:26.986> I'm<00:20:27.243> getting<00:20:27.804> pitched<00:20:28.125> books<00:20:28.429> all<00:20:28.461> the<00:20:28.590> time<00:20:28.926> and<00:20:29.087> we<00:20:29.247> feature<00:20:29.792> very<00:20:30.129> few<00:20:30.369> of<00:20:30.514> them.

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It's<00:20:31.332> very<00:20:31.797> hard<00:20:32.454> to<00:20:32.534> get<00:20:33.336> media<00:20:33.577> coverage<00:20:33.881> for<00:20:33.978> a<00:20:34.058> book.

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Um,<00:20:35.116> it<00:20:35.180> is<00:20:35.325> much<00:20:35.806> easier<00:20:36.303> to<00:20:36.527> work<00:20:36.848> off<00:20:37.009> of<00:20:37.490> existing<00:20:38.372> great<00:20:38.612> relationships<00:20:39.174> that<00:20:39.254> you<00:20:39.414> have.

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So,<00:20:40.152> you<00:20:40.232> know,<00:20:40.456> 48<00:20:40.938> did<00:20:41.338> as<00:20:41.435> well<00:20:41.675> as<00:20:41.755> they<00:20:41.900> could,<00:20:42.156> and<00:20:42.220> they<00:20:42.317> got<00:20:42.477> me<00:20:42.557> some,<00:20:42.894> some<00:20:43.119> nice<00:20:43.311> spots<00:20:43.680> and<00:20:43.760> some<00:20:43.920> big<00:20:44.081> podcasts<00:20:44.546> that<00:20:44.626> I<00:20:44.642> wouldn't<00:20:44.883> have<00:20:44.931> got<00:20:45.043> myself<00:20:45.428> on.

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But<00:20:45.749> a<00:20:45.765> lot<00:20:45.941> of<00:20:46.005> the,<00:20:46.310> a<00:20:46.326> lot<00:20:46.502> of<00:20:46.566> the<00:20:46.711> opportunities<00:20:47.224> that<00:20:47.352> I<00:20:47.368> got,<00:20:47.609> I<00:20:47.625> got<00:20:47.753> myself.

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And,<00:20:49.277> um,<00:20:49.918> and<00:20:50.014> then<00:20:50.335> the<00:20:50.560> other<00:20:50.672> thing<00:20:50.880> that<00:20:50.977> I<00:20:51.137> did<00:20:51.442> that,<00:20:51.762> that<00:20:51.939> was,<00:20:52.564> uh,<00:20:53.302> really<00:20:54.184> key<00:20:55.226> was<00:20:55.852> I<00:20:56.028> looked<00:20:56.349> for<00:20:56.734> moments<00:20:57.616> that<00:20:57.712> just<00:20:58.033> looked<00:20:58.418> really<00:20:58.819> big,<00:20:59.862> even<00:21:00.054> if,<00:21:00.279> even<00:21:00.503> if<00:21:00.600> they<00:21:01.065> ultimately<00:21:02.043> weren't.

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So<00:21:02.830> for<00:21:02.910> example,<00:21:03.327> that<00:21:03.487> NASDAQ<00:21:04.209> billboard,<00:21:05.637> um,<00:21:06.439> here's<00:21:07.273> a<00:21:07.482> fun,<00:21:08.605> fun<00:21:08.845> fact<00:21:09.198> or<00:21:09.263> fun<00:21:09.487> secret<00:21:09.888> or<00:21:09.920> something,<00:21:10.610> uh,<00:21:11.027> that,<00:21:11.252> you<00:21:11.284> know,<00:21:11.444> if<00:21:11.573> you<00:21:11.669> ever<00:21:11.845> see<00:21:12.086> somebody<00:21:13.337> on<00:21:13.434> social<00:21:13.626> media,<00:21:13.899> they<00:21:13.979> have<00:21:14.091> their<00:21:14.220> NASDAQ,<00:21:14.781> they<00:21:14.861> have<00:21:14.958> a<00:21:15.038> photo<00:21:15.278> of<00:21:15.359> themselves<00:21:15.760> in<00:21:15.824> front<00:21:15.952> of<00:21:16.000> the<00:21:16.081> NASDAQ<00:21:16.546> billboard<00:21:17.107> and<00:21:17.188> their<00:21:17.284> book<00:21:17.460> is<00:21:17.605> on<00:21:17.749> it,<00:21:18.182> it's<00:21:18.327> not<00:21:18.567> up<00:21:18.728> for<00:21:18.888> very<00:21:19.129> long.

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It's<00:21:19.995> up<00:21:20.027> for<00:21:20.236> 5<00:21:20.669> minutes.

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Um,<00:21:22.000> but<00:21:22.161> you<00:21:22.241> know<00:21:22.337> what,<00:21:22.722> 5<00:21:22.963> minutes<00:21:23.219> is<00:21:23.300> enough<00:21:23.556> to<00:21:23.685> take<00:21:23.861> some<00:21:24.006> awesome<00:21:24.326> photos.

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And<00:21:24.984> then<00:21:25.449> I<00:21:25.626> did<00:21:25.786> something<00:21:26.027> that<00:21:26.171> nobody<00:21:26.492> else<00:21:26.893> has<00:21:27.054> ever<00:21:27.214> done.

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They<00:21:27.792> I<00:21:27.856> mean,<00:21:28.017> they<00:21:28.113> told<00:21:28.274> me,<00:21:28.981> um,<00:21:29.238> because<00:21:29.382> usually<00:21:29.639> what<00:21:29.720> people<00:21:29.897> do<00:21:30.041> is<00:21:30.122> they<00:21:30.202> just<00:21:30.363> come<00:21:30.523> and<00:21:30.587> they<00:21:30.684> take<00:21:30.845> photos.

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I<00:21:32.355> took<00:21:32.467> some<00:21:32.612> photos,<00:21:33.255> and<00:21:33.335> then<00:21:33.560> what<00:21:33.656> I<00:21:33.801> did<00:21:34.058> is<00:21:34.203> I<00:21:34.219> had<00:21:34.380> a<00:21:34.444> camera<00:21:34.781> guy<00:21:35.569> run<00:21:35.729> around<00:21:35.986> with<00:21:36.147> me<00:21:36.549> in<00:21:36.629> Times<00:21:36.870> Square<00:21:37.336> where<00:21:37.497> I<00:21:37.593> just,<00:21:37.915> I<00:21:37.995> just<00:21:38.236> ran<00:21:38.477> over<00:21:38.638> with<00:21:38.734> a<00:21:38.782> microphone,<00:21:39.200> like,<00:21:39.296> accosting<00:21:40.068> tourists<00:21:40.566> as<00:21:40.646> they're<00:21:40.791> walking<00:21:41.000> down<00:21:41.128> the<00:21:41.209> street<00:21:41.932> saying,<00:21:42.494> "That's<00:21:42.687> my<00:21:42.815> book,<00:21:43.040> give<00:21:43.137> me<00:21:43.281> a<00:21:43.297> high<00:21:43.522> five!"<00:21:43.940> And<00:21:44.004> they're<00:21:44.117> like,<00:21:44.326> "What?

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Huh?"<00:21:45.290> And,<00:21:45.531> uh,<00:21:45.772> and<00:21:45.852> I<00:21:45.868> just<00:21:46.029> did<00:21:46.190> that,<00:21:46.511> like,<00:21:46.736> as<00:21:46.977> for<00:21:47.154> the<00:21:47.218> rest<00:21:47.411> of<00:21:47.459> the<00:21:47.555> time.

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And,<00:21:48.503> um,<00:21:48.825> and<00:21:48.921> it<00:21:49.066> turned<00:21:49.243> it,<00:21:49.387> you<00:21:49.419> know,<00:21:49.500> and<00:21:49.628> I<00:21:49.789> was<00:21:49.885> able<00:21:50.046> to<00:21:50.126> produce<00:21:50.367> this<00:21:50.689> really<00:21:51.010> fun<00:21:51.331> TikTok,<00:21:52.360> uh,<00:21:52.778> video<00:21:53.083> over<00:21:53.260> it.

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And<00:21:53.420> then<00:21:53.565> I<00:21:53.966> put<00:21:54.062> a<00:21:54.126> bunch<00:21:54.287> of<00:21:54.335> money<00:21:54.784> into<00:21:55.008> promoting<00:21:55.425> that.

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And,<00:21:56.371> and,<00:21:56.468> and<00:21:56.708> I,<00:21:57.029> I<00:21:57.109> did<00:21:57.270> versions<00:21:57.686> of<00:21:57.815> this<00:21:58.216> a<00:21:58.296> lot.

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What<00:21:58.793> I<00:21:58.809> was<00:21:58.937> looking<00:21:59.114> for<00:21:59.274> were<00:21:59.354> these<00:21:59.595> moments<00:21:59.996> that<00:22:00.076> just<00:22:00.380> looked<00:22:00.637> really<00:22:00.878> big<00:22:01.503> that<00:22:01.599> I<00:22:01.679> could<00:22:01.824> then<00:22:01.984> socialize,<00:22:02.882> which,<00:22:03.187> which<00:22:03.347> creates<00:22:03.604> the<00:22:03.748> impression<00:22:04.550> that<00:22:04.806> this<00:22:04.967> thing<00:22:05.143> is<00:22:05.432> everywhere.

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And<00:22:06.811> that<00:22:07.212> gets<00:22:07.452> people<00:22:07.693> very<00:22:07.917> excited,<00:22:08.270> and<00:22:08.399> they<00:22:08.495> start<00:22:08.655> to<00:22:08.735> think,<00:22:08.960> oh<00:22:08.976> my<00:22:09.136> gosh,<00:22:09.441> you've<00:22:09.537> got<00:22:09.681> this<00:22:09.842> enormous<00:22:10.259> book,<00:22:10.435> and<00:22:10.820> right,<00:22:10.980> and<00:22:11.077> then<00:22:11.221> that<00:22:11.526> shifts<00:22:11.782> your<00:22:12.183> perception<00:22:12.616> because<00:22:12.889> a<00:22:12.985> book<00:22:13.161> is<00:22:13.546> very<00:22:13.722> much<00:22:14.027> in<00:22:14.171> part<00:22:14.412> about<00:22:14.733> perception.

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So<00:22:17.074> it,<00:22:17.315> it,<00:22:17.635> it<00:22:17.796> worked<00:22:17.956> for<00:22:18.116> me.

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It's,<00:22:18.662> it's<00:22:18.822> getting<00:22:19.062> me<00:22:19.319> a<00:22:19.544> lot<00:22:19.656> of<00:22:19.704> nice<00:22:19.880> results.

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Yeah,<00:22:21.068> it's<00:22:21.229> funny<00:22:21.389> you<00:22:21.421> mentioned<00:22:21.711> that.

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I've<00:22:22.112> actually<00:22:22.610> been<00:22:22.851> on<00:22:23.092> that<00:22:23.317> NASDAQ<00:22:23.959> billboard<00:22:24.521> as<00:22:24.778> well,<00:22:25.726> uh,<00:22:26.047> because<00:22:26.866> we<00:22:27.011> have<00:22:27.107> a<00:22:27.172> strong<00:22:27.509> partnership<00:22:28.055> with,<00:22:28.312> with<00:22:28.473> them.

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And<00:22:29.356> then<00:22:29.581> like<00:22:29.757> the<00:22:29.918> big<00:22:30.159> thing<00:22:30.544> that<00:22:31.348> came<00:22:31.589> out<00:22:31.829> of<00:22:31.990> it—<00:22:32.086> I<00:22:32.167> didn't<00:22:32.392> do<00:22:32.488> anything<00:22:32.873> like<00:22:32.970> what<00:22:33.114> you're<00:22:33.532> saying,<00:22:33.837> or<00:22:33.917> probably<00:22:34.126> even<00:22:34.399> put<00:22:34.512> no<00:22:34.656> thought<00:22:34.913> into<00:22:35.138> it—<00:22:35.684> but,<00:22:36.006> um,<00:22:36.503> the<00:22:36.664> big<00:22:36.905> thing<00:22:37.146> that<00:22:37.371> was<00:22:37.692> like,<00:22:37.869> it<00:22:38.351> was<00:22:38.575> the<00:22:38.672> social<00:22:39.041> media<00:22:39.378> posts<00:22:39.780> after.

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Yeah,<00:22:40.663> like<00:22:40.824> I<00:22:40.904> didn't<00:22:41.177> have<00:22:41.386> anybody<00:22:41.707> reach<00:22:41.884> out<00:22:41.932> and<00:22:42.029> say,<00:22:42.189> hey,<00:22:42.430> I<00:22:42.446> saw<00:22:42.671> you<00:22:42.768> on<00:22:42.912> the<00:22:42.944> NASDAQ<00:22:43.490> billboard<00:22:43.972> live.

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Yeah,<00:22:45.000> it<00:22:45.080> really<00:22:45.337> was<00:22:45.643> like<00:22:45.819> that<00:22:45.980> thing.

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And<00:22:46.237> same<00:22:46.462> thing<00:22:46.638> like<00:22:46.863> when<00:22:47.008> you<00:22:47.088> go<00:22:47.265> on<00:22:47.345> like<00:22:47.570> local<00:22:47.827> news,<00:22:48.036> I'm<00:22:48.148> sure<00:22:48.277> you've<00:22:48.469> done<00:22:48.694> this,<00:22:49.443> The<00:22:49.925> big<00:22:50.150> thing<00:22:50.311> is<00:22:50.408> like<00:22:50.569> the<00:22:50.649> social<00:22:51.067> media<00:22:51.614> post<00:22:52.982> that<00:22:53.207> shows<00:22:53.625> you<00:22:53.786> kind<00:22:54.011> of<00:22:54.044> like<00:22:54.188> the<00:22:54.333> cameras<00:22:54.993> with<00:22:55.218> the<00:22:55.315> hosts<00:22:55.878> and<00:22:55.958> not<00:22:56.264> actually<00:22:56.923> the<00:22:57.084> appearance<00:22:57.486> itself,<00:22:57.889> which<00:22:58.066> is<00:22:58.210> really<00:22:58.420> strange.

00:22:59.404 --> 00:23:07.584
So<00:22:59.726> well,<00:22:59.985> there<00:23:00.130> are<00:23:00.227> two<00:23:00.469> ways<00:23:00.775> that<00:23:00.856> you<00:23:00.921> have<00:23:01.033> to<00:23:01.179> think<00:23:01.372> about<00:23:05.713> big<00:23:06.342> moments,<00:23:06.923> I<00:23:07.004> guess,<00:23:07.472> right?

00:23:07.649 --> 00:23:10.586
Which<00:23:07.875> is<00:23:07.956> to<00:23:08.036> say<00:23:08.214> that<00:23:09.424> you<00:23:09.521> have<00:23:09.731> to<00:23:09.779> know<00:23:09.989> what<00:23:10.151> they're<00:23:10.296> for.

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I<00:23:11.506> actually<00:23:11.668> have<00:23:11.765> a<00:23:11.829> whole<00:23:12.007> chapter<00:23:12.313> in<00:23:12.346> my<00:23:12.491> book<00:23:12.652> called<00:23:12.959> What<00:23:13.072> Is<00:23:13.217> This<00:23:13.459> For?

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Because<00:23:14.089> I<00:23:14.186> just<00:23:14.347> think<00:23:14.654> like,<00:23:15.434> You'll<00:23:15.596> get<00:23:15.742> a<00:23:15.758> lot<00:23:15.920> of<00:23:15.985> clarity<00:23:16.260> of<00:23:16.390> purpose<00:23:16.795> when<00:23:16.957> you<00:23:17.200> ask,<00:23:17.459> "What<00:23:17.638> is<00:23:17.784> this<00:23:17.946> for?"<00:23:18.334> of<00:23:18.415> the<00:23:18.513> things<00:23:18.691> that<00:23:18.821> you<00:23:18.918> do.

00:23:20.616 --> 00:23:26.063
In<00:23:20.792> books,<00:23:21.821> very,<00:23:22.303> very<00:23:22.640> few<00:23:22.897> things<00:23:23.347> that<00:23:23.508> you<00:23:23.685> do<00:23:24.408> will<00:23:24.729> just<00:23:25.292> drive<00:23:25.709> sales.

00:23:26.818 --> 00:23:36.435
If<00:23:26.882> you<00:23:27.043> can<00:23:27.140> get<00:23:27.365> reviewed<00:23:27.863> in<00:23:27.927> The<00:23:28.007> New<00:23:28.104> York<00:23:28.345> Times<00:23:29.550> book<00:23:29.711> review<00:23:29.920> section,<00:23:30.340> which<00:23:30.906> they<00:23:31.067> never<00:23:31.326> review<00:23:31.569> business<00:23:31.892> books,<00:23:32.054> so<00:23:32.377> probably<00:23:32.781> everyone<00:23:33.008> who's<00:23:33.169> listening<00:23:33.428> to<00:23:33.574> this,<00:23:34.075> don't<00:23:34.253> even<00:23:34.382> try,<00:23:35.514> but<00:23:35.756> that<00:23:35.934> moves<00:23:36.177> books.

00:23:37.256 --> 00:23:39.325
A<00:23:37.272> feature<00:23:37.745> on<00:23:37.907> NPR,<00:23:38.657> that<00:23:38.820> moves<00:23:39.064> books.

00:23:39.634 --> 00:23:41.638
An<00:23:39.716> appearance<00:23:40.107> on<00:23:40.188> The<00:23:40.286> Today<00:23:40.514> Show,<00:23:41.019> that<00:23:41.182> moves<00:23:41.426> books.

00:23:41.926 --> 00:23:44.811
But<00:23:42.006> like<00:23:42.262> pretty<00:23:42.423> much<00:23:42.647> everything<00:23:42.968> else<00:23:43.465> doesn't<00:23:43.705> move<00:23:43.865> books,<00:23:44.362> just<00:23:44.507> doesn't.

00:23:45.372 --> 00:23:54.301
Uh,<00:23:45.532> I<00:23:45.548> mean,<00:23:45.789> even<00:23:46.029> what<00:23:46.350> would<00:23:46.494> seem<00:23:46.735> like<00:23:46.911> big<00:23:47.071> things,<00:23:47.392> big<00:23:47.568> newspaper<00:23:47.953> features,<00:23:48.578> big<00:23:48.835> magazine,<00:23:50.101> uh,<00:23:50.438> excerpts,<00:23:51.063> you<00:23:51.095> know,<00:23:51.255> like<00:23:51.480> I,<00:23:51.961> I,<00:23:53.083> I'm<00:23:53.387> well<00:23:53.628> connected<00:23:53.964> in<00:23:54.109> media.

00:23:54.349 --> 00:23:55.599
I've<00:23:54.525> been<00:23:54.606> working<00:23:54.846> in<00:23:54.878> media<00:23:55.151> a<00:23:55.167> long<00:23:55.407> time.

00:23:55.712 --> 00:23:59.174
I<00:23:55.728> had<00:23:55.872> a<00:23:55.888> lot<00:23:56.128> of<00:23:56.369> friends<00:23:57.250> at<00:23:57.315> different<00:23:57.491> publications<00:23:58.116> run<00:23:58.357> excerpts<00:23:58.773> of<00:23:58.837> my<00:23:58.998> book.

00:23:59.318 --> 00:24:00.985
I,<00:23:59.415> I,<00:23:59.495> they<00:23:59.655> did,<00:23:59.895> that<00:24:00.056> didn't<00:24:00.457> do<00:24:00.633> anything.

00:24:01.514 --> 00:24:02.412
It<00:24:01.579> doesn't<00:24:01.819> sell<00:24:02.204> books.

00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:02.717
Mm-hmm.

00:24:02.925 --> 00:24:05.169
Um,<00:24:03.198> so<00:24:03.823> what<00:24:03.919> do<00:24:03.983> you,<00:24:04.127> what,<00:24:04.288> what's<00:24:04.448> the<00:24:04.528> point<00:24:04.801> of<00:24:04.929> that?

00:24:05.346 --> 00:24:08.311
Well,<00:24:05.570> the<00:24:05.666> point<00:24:05.843> of<00:24:05.971> it<00:24:06.051> is<00:24:06.131> that<00:24:06.324> it's,<00:24:06.612> it's<00:24:06.933> a<00:24:06.949> lot<00:24:07.109> of<00:24:07.205> it<00:24:07.333> is<00:24:07.654> what<00:24:07.814> you<00:24:07.846> make<00:24:08.135> of<00:24:08.231> it.

00:24:08.696 --> 00:24:17.352
Or<00:24:09.034> it's,<00:24:09.660> it's<00:24:10.399> getting<00:24:10.961> your<00:24:11.507> audience,<00:24:12.326> getting<00:24:12.566> that<00:24:12.791> audience<00:24:13.064> a<00:24:13.112> little<00:24:13.289> familiar<00:24:13.691> with<00:24:13.835> your<00:24:13.931> book,<00:24:14.172> and<00:24:14.237> then<00:24:14.333> you<00:24:14.413> can<00:24:14.574> kind<00:24:14.718> of<00:24:14.799> try<00:24:14.895> to<00:24:15.296> target<00:24:15.618> and<00:24:16.420> reach<00:24:16.645> them<00:24:16.822> in<00:24:16.902> other<00:24:17.127> ways.

00:24:18.187 --> 00:24:19.728
These<00:24:18.428> are<00:24:18.508> the<00:24:18.588> things<00:24:19.375> that<00:24:19.472> matter.

00:24:19.857 --> 00:24:30.327
And<00:24:19.953> so<00:24:20.339> when<00:24:20.419> you<00:24:20.515> think<00:24:20.740> about<00:24:20.981> those<00:24:21.158> billboards,<00:24:21.479> I<00:24:21.495> mean,<00:24:21.639> look,<00:24:21.880> even<00:24:22.105> if<00:24:23.004> the,<00:24:23.470> the<00:24:23.711> NASDAQ<00:24:24.112> billboard<00:24:24.466> is<00:24:24.594> up<00:24:24.691> for<00:24:24.851> 5<00:24:25.156> minutes,<00:24:25.493> but<00:24:26.200> I<00:24:26.280> have<00:24:26.393> a<00:24:26.457> friend<00:24:27.244> who<00:24:27.902> buys<00:24:28.625> billboards<00:24:29.251> for<00:24:29.508> her<00:24:29.669> podcast.

00:24:31.017 --> 00:24:34.454
And,<00:24:32.061> you<00:24:32.158> know,<00:24:32.398> big<00:24:32.623> billboards,<00:24:33.025> I've<00:24:33.121> seen<00:24:33.346> them,<00:24:33.603> they<00:24:33.747> look<00:24:33.924> really<00:24:34.149> cool.

00:24:34.711 --> 00:24:36.638
But<00:24:34.807> when<00:24:34.952> I<00:24:35.112> asked<00:24:35.289> her<00:24:35.530> why<00:24:36.028> are<00:24:36.156> you<00:24:36.253> doing<00:24:36.494> this?

00:24:36.735 --> 00:24:38.919
The<00:24:36.895> answer<00:24:37.136> is<00:24:37.233> not<00:24:37.457> because<00:24:37.698> it<00:24:37.779> drives<00:24:38.180> podcast<00:24:38.662> listens.

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It<00:24:39.385> doesn't.

00:24:40.189 --> 00:24:45.779
But<00:24:40.349> what<00:24:40.494> it<00:24:40.671> does<00:24:40.992> do<00:24:41.329> is,<00:24:41.875> is<00:24:41.956> it<00:24:42.181> raises<00:24:42.663> perception<00:24:43.305> to<00:24:43.466> the<00:24:43.707> right<00:24:44.108> people<00:24:44.767> that<00:24:44.912> the<00:24:45.008> podcast<00:24:45.490> is<00:24:45.570> a<00:24:45.651> hit.

00:24:46.213 --> 00:24:54.583
So,<00:24:46.599> you<00:24:46.631> know,<00:24:46.711> like<00:24:46.952> if<00:24:47.080> you<00:24:47.241> get<00:24:47.354> a<00:24:47.482> billboard<00:24:48.526> on<00:24:48.639> the<00:24:48.767> highway<00:24:49.330> towards<00:24:49.812> LAX,<00:24:50.775> a<00:24:50.792> lot<00:24:51.016> of<00:24:51.097> people<00:24:51.209> are<00:24:51.290> going<00:24:51.386> to<00:24:51.450> see<00:24:51.675> it<00:24:52.302> and<00:24:52.559> that<00:24:52.719> can<00:24:52.944> lead<00:24:53.282> to<00:24:53.442> great<00:24:53.764> other<00:24:53.988> opportunities.

00:24:54.647 --> 00:24:58.920
And<00:24:54.711> it's<00:24:54.808> funny,<00:24:55.033> she<00:24:55.209> put<00:24:55.354> me<00:24:55.450> in<00:24:55.531> touch<00:24:55.707> with<00:24:55.836> her<00:24:56.013> billboard<00:24:56.639> guy,<00:24:56.993> like<00:24:57.218> the,<00:24:57.539> you<00:24:57.635> know,<00:24:57.764> guy<00:24:57.924> that<00:24:58.005> she<00:24:58.101> buys<00:24:58.326> the<00:24:58.422> billboards<00:24:58.744> through.

00:24:59.306 --> 00:25:01.266
And<00:24:59.386> he<00:24:59.531> gave<00:24:59.643> me<00:24:59.724> this<00:24:59.868> whole<00:25:00.013> long<00:25:00.190> speech<00:25:00.511> about<00:25:00.768> exactly<00:25:01.153> that.

00:25:01.394 --> 00:25:06.798
Like<00:25:01.475> he<00:25:01.619> sells<00:25:01.941> billboards<00:25:02.294> for<00:25:02.423> a<00:25:02.503> living<00:25:02.648> and<00:25:02.760> he's<00:25:02.921> like,<00:25:03.322> Do<00:25:03.482> not<00:25:03.722> buy<00:25:03.963> this<00:25:04.123> because<00:25:04.427> you<00:25:04.507> think<00:25:04.684> that<00:25:04.780> it's<00:25:04.908> going<00:25:05.068> to<00:25:05.228> convert<00:25:05.789> anything,<00:25:06.125> because<00:25:06.302> it's<00:25:06.606> not.

00:25:07.391 --> 00:25:12.502
But<00:25:07.487> what<00:25:07.631> it<00:25:07.792> will<00:25:08.112> do<00:25:08.593> is<00:25:08.769> drive<00:25:09.169> perception<00:25:10.211> if<00:25:10.291> you<00:25:10.435> think<00:25:10.707> strategically<00:25:11.348> about<00:25:11.572> where<00:25:11.733> you're<00:25:11.877> buying<00:25:12.133> the<00:25:12.197> billboard.

00:25:12.918 --> 00:25:15.946
So<00:25:13.559> that's,<00:25:13.976> that's<00:25:14.312> how<00:25:14.456> you<00:25:14.520> have<00:25:14.616> to<00:25:14.697> think<00:25:14.841> about<00:25:15.097> everything<00:25:15.401> that<00:25:15.498> you're<00:25:15.658> doing.

00:25:16.058 --> 00:25:21.650
It's<00:25:16.186> like<00:25:16.315> some<00:25:16.539> of<00:25:16.635> it<00:25:16.779> is<00:25:17.003> about<00:25:17.324> actual<00:25:17.724> conversion<00:25:18.317> and<00:25:18.461> some<00:25:18.622> of<00:25:18.766> it<00:25:18.942> is<00:25:19.038> about<00:25:19.583> appearance,<00:25:20.768> which<00:25:20.945> can<00:25:21.089> lead<00:25:21.185> to<00:25:21.281> conversion.

00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:22.226
Yeah.

00:25:22.338 --> 00:25:36.973
Speaking<00:25:22.611> of<00:25:22.771> Entrepreneur<00:25:23.123> Magazine,<00:25:23.828> what<00:25:23.973> do<00:25:24.053> you<00:25:24.149> think<00:25:25.174> is<00:25:25.350> the<00:25:25.430> future<00:25:25.831> of<00:25:25.911> publishing<00:25:26.472> and<00:25:26.552> the<00:25:26.632> future<00:25:27.016> of<00:25:27.113> magazines,<00:25:28.218> given<00:25:28.474> that<00:25:28.619> everybody<00:25:28.971> now<00:25:29.356> can<00:25:29.500> have<00:25:29.756> a<00:25:29.772> Substack<00:25:30.781> that<00:25:30.958> kind<00:25:31.118> of<00:25:31.262> could<00:25:31.438> make—<00:25:32.063> particularly<00:25:32.448> if<00:25:32.480> you're<00:25:32.640> a<00:25:32.720> great<00:25:32.960> writer,<00:25:33.345> it<00:25:33.377> seems<00:25:33.665> like<00:25:34.387> you<00:25:34.548> can<00:25:34.708> make<00:25:34.885> money<00:25:35.190> right<00:25:35.367> now<00:25:35.608> being<00:25:35.848> an<00:25:35.929> independent<00:25:36.475> great<00:25:36.716> writer.

00:25:37.760 --> 00:25:39.911
What<00:25:38.000> is<00:25:38.161> the<00:25:38.257> future<00:25:38.900> of<00:25:39.301> magazines?

00:25:40.811 --> 00:25:48.294
So<00:25:42.192> I<00:25:42.272> think<00:25:42.433> that<00:25:42.497> we<00:25:42.609> make<00:25:42.754> a<00:25:42.786> mistake<00:25:43.637> when<00:25:43.878> we<00:25:44.183> think<00:25:44.585> of<00:25:45.805> innovation<00:25:46.592> and<00:25:46.689> new<00:25:46.833> technology<00:25:47.491> as<00:25:47.572> zero-sum.

00:25:48.792 --> 00:26:00.548
So<00:25:49.162> the<00:25:49.419> media<00:25:49.836> narrative<00:25:50.623> around<00:25:50.928> Substack,<00:25:51.506> for<00:25:51.667> example,<00:25:52.213> was,<00:25:52.614> oh<00:25:52.695> my<00:25:52.855> God,<00:25:53.193> now<00:25:53.433> that<00:25:53.594> every<00:25:53.899> writer<00:25:54.317> can<00:25:54.718> make<00:25:54.943> money<00:25:55.826> as<00:25:56.003> an<00:25:56.147> independent<00:25:56.870> entity,<00:25:57.994> the<00:25:58.572> traditional<00:25:59.054> media<00:25:59.359> ecosystem<00:25:59.937> will<00:26:00.162> collapse.

00:26:00.805 --> 00:26:02.282
But<00:26:01.222> No,<00:26:01.367> that<00:26:01.543> doesn't<00:26:01.816> make<00:26:01.864> any<00:26:01.961> sense.

00:26:02.346 --> 00:26:03.518
Instead,<00:26:02.747> like,<00:26:02.988> we<00:26:03.133> can<00:26:03.229> have<00:26:03.389> both.

00:26:04.176 --> 00:26:08.591
Uh,<00:26:05.155> and<00:26:05.236> that's<00:26:05.476> not<00:26:05.637> to<00:26:05.717> say<00:26:05.958> that<00:26:06.199> every<00:26:06.985> traditional<00:26:07.322> media<00:26:07.644> company<00:26:07.965> will<00:26:08.109> survive.

00:26:08.848 --> 00:26:11.336
It's<00:26:08.992> also<00:26:09.169> not<00:26:09.329> to<00:26:09.393> say<00:26:09.570> that<00:26:09.731> every<00:26:09.955> writer<00:26:10.276> can<00:26:10.325> make<00:26:10.469> a<00:26:10.517> living<00:26:10.758> off<00:26:10.870> of<00:26:10.919> Substack.

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They,<00:26:12.299> they<00:26:12.444> can't.

00:26:13.327 --> 00:26:15.494
Um,<00:26:13.921> so<00:26:14.932> what<00:26:15.012> do<00:26:15.173> I<00:26:15.269> see?

00:26:15.590 --> 00:26:24.307
Well,<00:26:16.939> I<00:26:17.035> think<00:26:17.195> that<00:26:18.143> the<00:26:18.255> shifting<00:26:18.704> economics<00:26:19.347> of<00:26:19.668> media<00:26:20.005> can<00:26:20.165> be<00:26:20.711> really<00:26:21.626> scary<00:26:22.236> for<00:26:23.199> the<00:26:23.521> wrong<00:26:23.858> companies.

00:26:24.355 --> 00:26:32.298
It<00:26:24.420> can<00:26:24.516> be<00:26:24.644> really<00:26:24.885> exciting<00:26:25.367> for<00:26:26.009> very<00:26:26.266> nimble<00:26:26.651> companies<00:26:27.133> and<00:26:27.293> also<00:26:27.630> for<00:26:28.032> nibble<00:26:28.354> writers<00:26:28.982> who<00:26:30.205> have<00:26:30.511> developed<00:26:30.833> a<00:26:30.849> following<00:26:31.413> and<00:26:31.477> have<00:26:31.574> built<00:26:31.799> a<00:26:31.831> Substack.

00:26:32.926 --> 00:26:36.645
Um,<00:26:33.103> and<00:26:33.200> I<00:26:33.264> think<00:26:33.425> that<00:26:33.522> that's<00:26:33.828> great<00:26:34.472> because<00:26:35.341> the<00:26:35.438> more<00:26:35.663> opportunities,<00:26:36.323> the<00:26:36.404> better.

00:26:37.128 --> 00:26:40.218
But<00:26:37.515> it<00:26:37.547> goes<00:26:37.692> back<00:26:37.933> to<00:26:38.158> actually,<00:26:38.400> you<00:26:38.432> know,<00:26:38.496> I<00:26:38.641> just<00:26:38.802> said<00:26:38.898> that<00:26:39.059> question,<00:26:39.526> what<00:26:39.639> is<00:26:39.783> this<00:26:40.089> for?

00:26:40.926 --> 00:26:44.240
I<00:26:42.116> imagine<00:26:42.503> applying—<00:26:42.760> this<00:26:42.921> is<00:26:43.001> why<00:26:43.162> this<00:26:43.468> question<00:26:43.709> is<00:26:43.790> so<00:26:43.886> powerful.

00:26:44.289 --> 00:26:48.968
Imagine<00:26:44.610> applying<00:26:45.013> this<00:26:45.334> question,<00:26:45.737> what<00:26:45.898> is<00:26:45.978> this<00:26:46.139> for,<00:26:48.484> to<00:26:48.645> content.

00:26:49.145 --> 00:26:49.597
Mm-hmm.

00:26:49.774 --> 00:26:51.646
So,<00:26:50.726> um,<00:26:50.904> here,<00:26:51.226> here<00:26:51.452> I<00:26:51.549> am.

00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:54.195
I'm,<00:26:52.098> you<00:26:52.130> know,<00:26:52.178> I'm<00:26:52.340> the<00:26:52.436> editor-in-chief<00:26:52.937> at<00:26:53.017> a<00:26:53.404> traditional<00:26:53.743> media<00:26:54.034> company.

00:26:54.782 --> 00:26:55.615
What<00:26:54.878> is<00:26:55.006> content<00:26:55.343> for?

00:26:56.208 --> 00:26:56.657
Good<00:26:56.305> question.

00:26:57.090 --> 00:27:03.278
Well,<00:26:57.827> decades<00:26:58.372> ago,<00:27:00.056> content<00:27:00.392> was<00:27:00.553> for<00:27:01.338> monetization,<00:27:02.396> and<00:27:02.460> there<00:27:02.540> were<00:27:02.620> two<00:27:02.717> ways<00:27:02.941> to<00:27:03.021> do<00:27:03.182> it.

00:27:03.358 --> 00:27:05.810
You<00:27:03.438> could<00:27:03.582> sell<00:27:03.983> ads<00:27:04.785> and<00:27:04.945> you<00:27:05.025> could<00:27:05.121> sell<00:27:05.281> subscriptions.

00:27:06.468 --> 00:27:07.926
And<00:27:06.965> that<00:27:07.141> was<00:27:07.269> a<00:27:07.285> very<00:27:07.446> good<00:27:07.606> business.

00:27:08.632 --> 00:27:14.739
And<00:27:09.289> that<00:27:09.674> is<00:27:10.331> for<00:27:10.636> everybody,<00:27:11.213> not<00:27:11.373> just<00:27:11.517> talking<00:27:11.629> about<00:27:11.838> entrepreneurs<00:27:12.174> here,<00:27:12.335> that<00:27:12.655> for<00:27:12.816> everyone<00:27:13.281> is<00:27:13.681> a<00:27:13.761> harder<00:27:14.178> business<00:27:14.579> now.

00:27:15.284 --> 00:27:19.388
Uh,<00:27:15.316> it's<00:27:15.685> really<00:27:15.925> hard<00:27:16.102> to<00:27:16.246> get<00:27:16.342> people<00:27:16.647> to<00:27:16.807> subscribe<00:27:17.464> to<00:27:17.609> pay<00:27:17.769> for<00:27:17.865> things<00:27:18.057> because<00:27:18.250> they<00:27:18.346> can<00:27:18.490> get<00:27:18.586> so<00:27:18.683> much<00:27:18.843> of<00:27:18.923> it<00:27:19.067> for<00:27:19.228> free.

00:27:19.933 --> 00:27:26.810
And<00:27:20.109> it's<00:27:20.189> hard<00:27:20.494> to<00:27:20.574> get<00:27:20.815> advertisers<00:27:21.328> to<00:27:21.536> advertise<00:27:21.873> against<00:27:22.113> your<00:27:22.257> content<00:27:22.546> because<00:27:22.738> they<00:27:22.834> have<00:27:22.995> so<00:27:23.155> many<00:27:23.636> options<00:27:24.117> and<00:27:24.437> particularly<00:27:25.159> targeted<00:27:25.640> options<00:27:26.041> through<00:27:26.361> Facebook<00:27:26.570> in<00:27:26.682> Google.

00:27:27.469 --> 00:27:29.782
So<00:27:28.754> what<00:27:29.011> the<00:27:29.155> hell<00:27:29.316> is<00:27:29.396> the<00:27:29.493> point<00:27:29.653> of<00:27:29.733> it?

00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:32.335
Well,<00:27:31.661> what<00:27:31.805> is<00:27:31.886> content<00:27:32.223> for?

00:27:32.464 --> 00:27:33.122
Let's<00:27:32.689> ask<00:27:32.881> it<00:27:33.010> now.

00:27:33.427 --> 00:27:34.825
Let's<00:27:33.652> ask<00:27:33.845> it<00:27:33.974> like<00:27:34.134> clear-eyed<00:27:34.696> now.

00:27:34.969 --> 00:27:35.708
What<00:27:35.098> is<00:27:35.178> content<00:27:35.515> for?

00:27:36.142 --> 00:27:36.656
Here's<00:27:36.302> the<00:27:36.463> answer.

00:27:36.784 --> 00:27:37.427
Here's<00:27:36.945> my<00:27:37.121> answer.

00:27:38.069 --> 00:27:38.760
Relationships.

00:27:39.129 --> 00:27:45.055
Content<00:27:39.466> is<00:27:39.595> for<00:27:39.836> relationships<00:27:40.896> because<00:27:41.217> people<00:27:41.618> really<00:27:42.100> trust<00:27:42.662> you<00:27:43.208> if<00:27:43.385> they<00:27:43.690> like<00:27:43.963> the<00:27:44.108> thing<00:27:44.333> that<00:27:44.493> you<00:27:44.670> produce.

00:27:45.457 --> 00:27:48.011
So<00:27:45.553> content<00:27:46.019> builds<00:27:46.276> trust<00:27:46.678> and<00:27:46.742> the<00:27:46.838> trust<00:27:47.159> builds<00:27:47.384> relationships.

00:27:48.123 --> 00:27:55.511
And<00:27:48.284> we<00:27:48.428> all<00:27:48.669> know<00:27:49.408> that<00:27:49.569> you<00:27:49.713> can<00:27:49.890> monetize<00:27:50.596> that<00:27:50.837> because<00:27:51.159> you<00:27:51.239> can<00:27:51.576> build<00:27:52.042> products<00:27:52.443> and<00:27:52.492> services<00:27:52.941> that<00:27:53.102> people<00:27:53.343> will<00:27:53.584> buy<00:27:54.130> because<00:27:54.853> they<00:27:55.029> trust<00:27:55.431> you.

00:27:56.217 --> 00:28:06.141
And<00:27:56.313> so<00:27:56.778> I<00:27:56.874> think<00:27:57.034> that<00:27:57.355> media<00:27:57.676> companies<00:27:58.157> are<00:27:58.317> increasingly<00:27:58.958> going<00:27:59.119> to<00:27:59.199> have<00:27:59.343> to<00:27:59.423> start<00:27:59.760> thinking,<00:28:01.027> how<00:28:01.428> can<00:28:01.604> the<00:28:01.828> content<00:28:02.390> that<00:28:02.470> we<00:28:02.630> produce<00:28:03.833> serve<00:28:04.394> the<00:28:04.554> function<00:28:05.115> of<00:28:05.292> trust<00:28:05.837> building?

00:28:06.719 --> 00:28:11.240
And<00:28:06.879> then<00:28:07.200> let's<00:28:07.600> find<00:28:08.162> other<00:28:08.482> business<00:28:08.899> models<00:28:09.300> that<00:28:09.524> actually<00:28:10.021> monetize<00:28:10.663> that<00:28:10.839> trust.

00:28:11.609 --> 00:28:23.441
And<00:28:11.689> instead<00:28:12.122> of<00:28:12.250> just<00:28:12.426> thinking<00:28:12.747> of<00:28:13.068> the<00:28:13.292> thing<00:28:13.469> that<00:28:13.629> we<00:28:13.725> sell<00:28:14.735> as<00:28:16.114> basically<00:28:16.451> someone's<00:28:16.771> attention,<00:28:18.022> we<00:28:19.225> earn<00:28:19.545> people's<00:28:19.882> attention<00:28:20.908> and<00:28:21.068> then<00:28:21.630> we<00:28:21.790> deliver<00:28:22.271> even<00:28:22.431> more<00:28:22.592> value<00:28:22.864> on<00:28:23.008> top<00:28:23.249> of<00:28:23.345> it.

00:28:23.794 --> 00:28:26.507
I,<00:28:23.954> I<00:28:24.051> think<00:28:24.211> that<00:28:24.612> That,<00:28:24.773> that's<00:28:24.949> not<00:28:25.094> gonna<00:28:25.190> be<00:28:25.335> for<00:28:25.560> everybody,<00:28:26.122> obviously.

00:28:26.555 --> 00:28:26.620
Yeah.

00:28:27.005 --> 00:28:39.067
But<00:28:27.985> I<00:28:28.065> think<00:28:28.226> that<00:28:28.322> for<00:28:28.531> a<00:28:28.547> vast,<00:28:29.511> a<00:28:29.736> vast<00:28:30.394> majority<00:28:30.860> of,<00:28:31.181> of,<00:28:31.438> um,<00:28:31.743> of<00:28:31.920> media,<00:28:32.868> um,<00:28:33.446> that,<00:28:33.687> that,<00:28:34.008> that<00:28:34.169> wants<00:28:34.409> to<00:28:34.554> survive<00:28:35.148> into<00:28:35.373> the<00:28:35.518> future,<00:28:36.080> they<00:28:36.240> have<00:28:36.433> to<00:28:36.514> start<00:28:36.738> thinking<00:28:37.060> about<00:28:37.445> how<00:28:37.766> else<00:28:38.184> can<00:28:38.345> they<00:28:38.505> be<00:28:38.666> relevant.

00:28:39.453 --> 00:28:46.102
The,<00:28:39.613> the<00:28:39.694> New<00:28:39.854> York<00:28:40.015> Times<00:28:40.657> will<00:28:40.898> always<00:28:41.236> be<00:28:41.396> able<00:28:41.637> to<00:28:42.039> live<00:28:42.264> off<00:28:42.585> of,<00:28:43.067> um,<00:28:43.484> the,<00:28:43.725> the<00:28:43.870> authoritative<00:28:44.689> news<00:28:45.010> that<00:28:45.171> it,<00:28:45.476> that<00:28:45.636> it<00:28:45.733> delivers.

00:28:46.616 --> 00:28:49.604
But,<00:28:47.082> um,<00:28:47.500> there's<00:28:47.901> only<00:28:48.287> one<00:28:48.463> New<00:28:48.544> York<00:28:48.768> Times,<00:28:49.347> right?

00:28:49.973 --> 00:28:50.503
Maybe<00:28:50.391> two.

00:28:50.776 --> 00:28:54.852
The<00:28:51.017> Wall<00:28:51.129> Street<00:28:51.338> Journal,<00:28:51.819> um,<00:28:51.996> you<00:28:52.092> know,<00:28:52.381> occupies<00:28:52.782> a<00:28:52.894> somewhat<00:28:53.199> different<00:28:53.504> role<00:28:53.681> than<00:28:53.986> the<00:28:54.339> New<00:28:54.467> York<00:28:54.644> Times.

00:28:55.350 --> 00:28:58.030
But,<00:28:55.671> um,<00:28:56.088> everyone<00:28:56.329> else<00:28:56.890> gonna<00:28:57.019> have<00:28:57.131> to<00:28:57.211> figure<00:28:57.388> something<00:28:57.677> else<00:28:57.917> out.

00:28:58.318 --> 00:29:01.271
And<00:28:58.816> that's,<00:28:59.057> you<00:28:59.137> know,<00:28:59.217> that,<00:28:59.442> that's—<00:28:59.699> we<00:29:00.084> talk<00:29:00.260> a<00:29:00.340> lot<00:29:00.485> about<00:29:00.661> that<00:29:00.806> at<00:29:00.902> Entrepreneur.

00:29:01.384 --> 00:29:11.702
I<00:29:01.464> mean,<00:29:01.624> we're<00:29:01.769> starting<00:29:02.651> to<00:29:02.972> build<00:29:03.133> out<00:29:03.309> products<00:29:03.630> and<00:29:03.711> services<00:29:04.657> and<00:29:05.155> thinking<00:29:05.476> about<00:29:05.893> basically<00:29:06.262> how<00:29:06.294> do<00:29:06.374> we<00:29:06.503> diversify<00:29:06.984> revenue<00:29:07.337> so<00:29:07.562> that<00:29:08.268> we're<00:29:08.364> not<00:29:09.231> an<00:29:09.472> advertiser-dependent<00:29:10.772> media<00:29:11.076> organization.

00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:21.909
Because<00:29:12.376> that's—<00:29:13.564> you<00:29:13.660> look<00:29:13.821> about—<00:29:14.061> you<00:29:14.206> look<00:29:14.318> at<00:29:14.382> the<00:29:14.463> last<00:29:15.169> 15<00:29:15.506> years<00:29:15.827> of<00:29:15.923> media<00:29:16.228> organizations<00:29:16.934> dying<00:29:17.592> They<00:29:17.752> were<00:29:18.298> advertising-dependent<00:29:19.277> media<00:29:19.598> organizations,<00:29:20.464> and<00:29:20.625> I,<00:29:20.785> and<00:29:20.865> I,<00:29:21.026> you<00:29:21.122> have<00:29:21.299> to<00:29:21.379> think<00:29:21.604> differently.

00:29:23.032 --> 00:29:29.322
And<00:29:23.112> when,<00:29:23.273> when<00:29:23.385> it<00:29:23.513> comes<00:29:23.754> to<00:29:23.850> trust,<00:29:24.412> I<00:29:24.556> wonder<00:29:24.733> like<00:29:24.958> we're<00:29:25.054> seeing<00:29:25.359> trust,<00:29:26.081> um,<00:29:26.338> evaporate<00:29:26.996> so<00:29:27.156> much<00:29:27.381> for<00:29:27.525> like<00:29:27.702> these<00:29:27.926> legacy<00:29:28.327> media<00:29:28.664> institutions.

00:29:29.788 --> 00:29:29.884
Yeah.

00:29:29.932 --> 00:29:32.371
What<00:29:30.029> would<00:29:30.253> you<00:29:30.430> recommend<00:29:31.152> for<00:29:31.328> them<00:29:31.617> in<00:29:31.713> order<00:29:32.018> to<00:29:32.115> do<00:29:32.259> that?

00:29:32.436 --> 00:29:44.439
Like<00:29:32.933> I'm<00:29:33.078> talking<00:29:33.302> like<00:29:33.463> the<00:29:33.639> legacy<00:29:34.105> ones,<00:29:34.377> not<00:29:34.682> just<00:29:34.923> like<00:29:35.148> the<00:29:35.645> kind<00:29:35.806> of<00:29:35.886> private<00:29:36.447> or<00:29:36.833> kind<00:29:36.993> of<00:29:37.170> independent<00:29:37.795> publications<00:29:38.453> now,<00:29:39.416> but<00:29:39.641> like<00:29:40.138> basically<00:29:40.684> other<00:29:40.860> than<00:29:41.021> the<00:29:41.165> two<00:29:41.278> that<00:29:41.422> you<00:29:41.518> mentioned<00:29:41.968> who<00:29:42.064> are<00:29:42.208> always<00:29:42.449> gonna<00:29:42.529> have<00:29:42.706> this<00:29:42.931> built-in<00:29:43.252> trust<00:29:43.572> with<00:29:43.637> at<00:29:43.749> least<00:29:44.038> someone.

00:29:45.100 --> 00:29:46.117
How<00:29:45.423> do<00:29:45.665> you<00:29:45.762> do<00:29:45.987> that?

00:29:47.763 --> 00:29:48.989
God,<00:29:47.940> it's<00:29:48.424> so<00:29:48.667> hard.

00:29:49.312 --> 00:29:56.275
I<00:29:49.328> mean,<00:29:51.394> you<00:29:51.426> know,<00:29:53.411> let's<00:29:54.233> just<00:29:54.394> pick<00:29:54.635> an<00:29:54.715> example<00:29:55.825> out<00:29:55.905> of<00:29:55.985> thin<00:29:56.227> air.

00:29:57.030 --> 00:29:59.008
Just<00:29:57.513> so<00:29:57.673> we<00:29:57.754> have<00:29:57.915> like<00:29:58.027> a<00:29:58.091> thing<00:29:58.333> that<00:29:58.413> we're<00:29:58.574> talking<00:29:58.879> about.

00:29:59.297 --> 00:30:04.081
Are<00:29:59.378> you<00:29:59.522> imagining<00:30:00.085> like<00:30:01.451> the<00:30:01.709> Cleveland<00:30:02.416> Plain<00:30:02.837> Dealer,<00:30:03.645> for<00:30:03.726> example?

00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:04.938
Is<00:30:04.210> that<00:30:04.356> something<00:30:04.550> like<00:30:04.711> that?

00:30:05.649 --> 00:30:05.778
Right.

00:30:05.843 --> 00:30:06.360
So,<00:30:06.231> right.

00:30:06.715 --> 00:30:16.717
Because<00:30:07.039> you've<00:30:07.200> got,<00:30:09.366> because<00:30:09.705> you've<00:30:09.867> got<00:30:10.532> I<00:30:10.548> mean,<00:30:10.692> the<00:30:10.772> Cleveland<00:30:11.157> Plain<00:30:11.413> Dealer,<00:30:11.733> which<00:30:12.214> I<00:30:12.791> don't<00:30:13.640> know<00:30:13.752> anyone<00:30:14.057> at<00:30:14.137> the<00:30:14.217> Cleveland<00:30:14.521> Plain<00:30:14.698> Dealer,<00:30:15.018> but<00:30:15.243> my<00:30:15.579> wife's<00:30:15.883> family<00:30:16.204> is<00:30:16.268> from<00:30:16.380> Cleveland.

00:30:16.765 --> 00:30:19.505
So,<00:30:16.861> I'm<00:30:17.101> there<00:30:17.886> often<00:30:18.063> enough<00:30:18.383> and<00:30:18.447> I<00:30:18.479> see<00:30:18.768> it's<00:30:19.008> very<00:30:19.264> thin.

00:30:20.610 --> 00:30:24.247
And<00:30:22.132> so,<00:30:22.549> the<00:30:22.629> Cleveland<00:30:23.270> Plain<00:30:23.430> Dealer<00:30:23.671> has<00:30:23.831> a<00:30:23.911> problem.

00:30:24.536 --> 00:30:26.843
I<00:30:24.552> mean,<00:30:24.712> I<00:30:24.792> used<00:30:24.952> to<00:30:25.033> work<00:30:25.273> in<00:30:25.353> regional<00:30:25.994> newspapers.

00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:52.606
I<00:30:27.500> worked<00:30:27.692> at<00:30:27.756> the<00:30:27.837> Worcester<00:30:28.093> Telegram<00:30:28.542> and<00:30:28.622> Gazette,<00:30:29.375> saw<00:30:29.519> the<00:30:29.583> same<00:30:29.759> thing<00:30:29.903> happen,<00:30:30.400> which<00:30:30.560> is<00:30:30.641> basically<00:30:31.121> like,<00:30:32.227> as<00:30:32.563> you<00:30:32.708> have<00:30:32.884> a<00:30:32.948> more<00:30:33.829> interconnected<00:30:34.470> country<00:30:35.768> where<00:30:36.313> local<00:30:36.569> people<00:30:36.793> are<00:30:36.970> interested<00:30:37.354> in<00:30:37.450> national<00:30:37.851> news,<00:30:38.797> they<00:30:39.761> start<00:30:40.082> to<00:30:40.162> gravitate<00:30:40.740> towards<00:30:41.142> either<00:30:41.784> the,<00:30:43.068> the<00:30:43.325> national<00:30:44.032> publication,<00:30:44.818> the<00:30:44.899> New<00:30:44.963> York<00:30:45.075> Times<00:30:45.397> or<00:30:45.461> the<00:30:45.637> Wall<00:30:45.734> Street<00:30:45.942> Journal,<00:30:46.424> or<00:30:46.986> the<00:30:47.307> hyper,<00:30:47.628> hyper,<00:30:47.966> hyper<00:30:48.351> local,<00:30:49.234> uh,<00:30:49.957> which<00:30:50.438> may<00:30:50.615> not<00:30:50.792> even<00:30:51.016> be<00:30:51.643> their<00:30:51.819> local<00:30:52.076> newspaper.

00:30:52.702 --> 00:30:57.455
It<00:30:52.783> might<00:30:52.927> just<00:30:53.104> be<00:30:54.067> a<00:30:54.147> blog<00:30:55.014> or<00:30:55.191> a<00:30:55.496> Twitter<00:30:56.315> feed<00:30:56.572> or<00:30:56.652> something<00:30:56.941> like<00:30:57.118> that,<00:30:57.343> right?

00:30:57.503 --> 00:31:03.139
So<00:30:58.065> that<00:30:58.226> means<00:30:58.547> that<00:30:58.707> your,<00:30:59.189> your<00:30:59.430> audience<00:30:59.783> is<00:30:59.912> kind<00:31:00.008> of<00:31:00.088> drifting<00:31:00.731> in<00:31:00.955> one<00:31:01.373> or<00:31:01.533> both<00:31:01.838> directions<00:31:02.417> away<00:31:02.738> from<00:31:02.979> you.

00:31:04.714 --> 00:31:09.939
And<00:31:05.119> it's<00:31:05.541> hollowing<00:31:06.012> out<00:31:06.336> your<00:31:07.148> ability<00:31:08.284> to<00:31:09.176> run<00:31:09.290> a<00:31:09.322> news<00:31:09.582> operation.

00:31:09.988 --> 00:31:10.410
So<00:31:10.069> what<00:31:10.150> do<00:31:10.231> you<00:31:10.312> do?

00:31:11.843 --> 00:31:15.526
Well,<00:31:12.231> I<00:31:12.312> mean,<00:31:12.473> look,<00:31:14.185> there<00:31:14.347> are<00:31:14.912> two<00:31:15.073> answers<00:31:15.332> to<00:31:15.461> this.

00:31:15.639 --> 00:31:22.420
Number<00:31:15.946> one<00:31:16.204> is<00:31:16.365> that<00:31:16.527> the<00:31:16.608> Cleveland<00:31:16.995> Plain<00:31:17.238> Dealer<00:31:17.577> finds<00:31:17.900> another<00:31:18.207> business<00:31:18.530> model,<00:31:20.805> which<00:31:21.128> is<00:31:21.451> entirely<00:31:21.920> possible.

00:31:23.067 --> 00:31:28.446
Can<00:31:23.874> the<00:31:23.955> Cleveland<00:31:24.343> Plain<00:31:24.521> Dealer,<00:31:24.844> for<00:31:24.989> example,<00:31:25.555> also<00:31:26.055> be<00:31:26.944> the—<00:31:27.106> like,<00:31:27.655> what<00:31:27.832> do<00:31:27.978> they<00:31:28.301> have?

00:31:29.392 --> 00:31:37.285
What<00:31:29.571> do<00:31:29.798> they<00:31:30.269> have<00:31:32.867> built<00:31:33.192> into<00:31:35.157> people's<00:31:35.466> understanding<00:31:35.872> of<00:31:35.953> them<00:31:36.294> that<00:31:36.619> drives<00:31:36.944> trust?

00:31:37.800 --> 00:31:44.468
Well,<00:31:37.994> for<00:31:38.139> some<00:31:38.317> people,<00:31:38.803> it's<00:31:38.949> going<00:31:39.127> to<00:31:39.289> be<00:31:40.503> their<00:31:40.826> authority<00:31:41.943> as<00:31:42.769> the<00:31:42.850> paper,<00:31:43.319> the<00:31:43.481> local<00:31:43.740> paper<00:31:43.983> of<00:31:44.128> record.

00:31:45.439 --> 00:31:49.383
But<00:31:45.712> for<00:31:45.938> others,<00:31:46.260> it's<00:31:46.421> just<00:31:46.517> going<00:31:46.630> to<00:31:46.678> be<00:31:46.839> the<00:31:46.920> greatest<00:31:47.338> example<00:31:48.030> of<00:31:48.127> communications<00:31:48.996> in<00:31:49.028> the<00:31:49.157> region.

00:31:49.978 --> 00:31:59.821
Because<00:31:51.830> if<00:31:51.910> you're<00:31:52.055> a<00:31:52.071> local<00:31:52.313> business,<00:31:53.278> there<00:31:53.375> may<00:31:53.520> not<00:31:53.761> be<00:31:54.631> a<00:31:54.711> great<00:31:55.937> like<00:31:56.178> marketing<00:31:56.595> and<00:31:56.740> advertising<00:31:57.157> company<00:31:57.478> within<00:31:57.799> your<00:31:58.361> reach<00:31:59.227> in<00:31:59.324> Cleveland.

00:32:01.073 --> 00:32:19.673
And<00:32:01.185> so<00:32:01.731> what<00:32:01.956> if<00:32:02.132> the<00:32:02.277> Cleveland<00:32:02.598> Plain<00:32:02.774> Dealer,<00:32:03.015> and<00:32:03.159> this<00:32:03.272> is,<00:32:03.432> I'm<00:32:03.577> not<00:32:03.657> coming<00:32:03.897> up<00:32:03.962> with<00:32:04.058> this<00:32:04.218> for<00:32:04.283> the<00:32:04.363> first<00:32:04.539> time,<00:32:04.764> this<00:32:04.860> is<00:32:04.941> a<00:32:05.005> conversation<00:32:05.422> that's<00:32:05.583> happened<00:32:05.904> in<00:32:05.984> local<00:32:06.208> news<00:32:06.369> for<00:32:06.449> a<00:32:06.465> while,<00:32:06.626> but<00:32:06.706> like<00:32:06.866> what<00:32:07.011> if<00:32:07.107> the<00:32:07.252> Cleveland<00:32:07.508> Plain<00:32:07.685> Dealer<00:32:08.295> can<00:32:08.455> also<00:32:10.076> build<00:32:10.301> out<00:32:10.542> an<00:32:11.103> advertising<00:32:11.520> marketing<00:32:12.162> arm<00:32:12.804> where<00:32:13.527> they<00:32:13.687> can<00:32:14.570> be<00:32:14.955> the<00:32:15.613> company,<00:32:16.078> they<00:32:16.175> can<00:32:16.415> be<00:32:16.640> the<00:32:16.736> company<00:32:17.057> that<00:32:17.362> helps<00:32:17.699> local<00:32:17.940> businesses<00:32:18.421> with<00:32:18.582> their<00:32:18.887> advertising<00:32:19.240> and<00:32:19.304> marketing?

00:32:20.347 --> 00:32:22.578
What<00:32:20.572> other<00:32:20.732> kind<00:32:20.829> of<00:32:20.973> products<00:32:21.246> and<00:32:21.294> services<00:32:21.711> can<00:32:21.936> you<00:32:22.417> offer?

00:32:22.899 --> 00:32:28.788
I've<00:32:23.316> seen<00:32:23.541> a<00:32:23.637> lot<00:32:23.797> of<00:32:23.878> local<00:32:24.102> newspapers<00:32:24.552> start<00:32:24.841> to,<00:32:25.874> get<00:32:25.988> into<00:32:26.200> the<00:32:26.297> events<00:32:26.688> business,<00:32:27.225> kind<00:32:27.665> of<00:32:27.925> become<00:32:28.170> more<00:32:28.332> community-oriented.

00:32:31.504 --> 00:32:37.799
They<00:32:32.717> get<00:32:32.815> into<00:32:32.944> the<00:32:33.041> funeral<00:32:34.983> business<00:32:35.954> because<00:32:36.666> obits<00:32:36.925> are<00:32:37.006> a<00:32:37.087> big<00:32:37.556> thing.

00:32:38.285 --> 00:32:41.622
So<00:32:38.851> look,<00:32:39.013> so<00:32:39.126> that's<00:32:40.162> partially<00:32:41.281> an<00:32:41.379> answer.

00:32:41.703 --> 00:32:46.521
And<00:32:41.800> again,<00:32:42.011> I'm<00:32:42.109> not<00:32:42.498> reinventing—<00:32:42.903> if<00:32:43.001> I<00:32:43.082> knew<00:32:43.406> the<00:32:43.569> real<00:32:43.796> answer<00:32:43.990> to<00:32:44.071> solving<00:32:45.029> local<00:32:45.272> news,<00:32:45.515> I'd<00:32:46.180> solve<00:32:46.424> it.

00:32:47.219 --> 00:33:21.795
But<00:32:47.365> here's<00:32:48.046> the<00:32:48.500> other<00:32:48.597> way<00:32:48.711> to<00:32:48.776> say<00:32:49.093> it,<00:32:49.500> and<00:32:49.839> I<00:32:50.008> hate<00:32:50.212> this<00:32:50.449> and<00:32:50.517> people<00:32:51.012> can<00:32:51.092> get<00:32:51.253> angry<00:32:51.574> and<00:32:52.136> yell<00:32:52.296> at<00:32:52.360> me<00:32:52.457> for<00:32:52.633> it,<00:32:52.778> but<00:32:53.500> maybe<00:32:53.725> the<00:32:53.821> answer<00:32:54.062> is<00:32:54.207> that<00:32:54.367> the<00:32:54.463> thing<00:32:54.624> dies<00:32:55.330> and,<00:32:55.892> um,<00:32:56.069> and<00:32:56.213> something,<00:32:56.711> and<00:32:56.791> something<00:32:57.498> comes<00:32:57.754> in<00:32:57.851> its<00:32:58.059> place<00:32:58.541> because<00:32:59.745> it<00:32:59.841> is<00:33:00.082> an<00:33:00.307> old<00:33:00.483> institution,<00:33:01.752> um,<00:33:02.394> with,<00:33:03.357> uh,<00:33:04.015> with,<00:33:04.882> uh,<00:33:05.203> with<00:33:05.380> just,<00:33:06.728> just<00:33:06.905> kind<00:33:07.065> of<00:33:07.370> weighed<00:33:07.708> down<00:33:08.109> by<00:33:09.313> decades<00:33:09.955> of<00:33:10.180> cost<00:33:11.223> and<00:33:12.427> layers<00:33:12.700> of<00:33:12.845> management<00:33:13.230> structure<00:33:14.354> and<00:33:15.237> the,<00:33:15.558> the,<00:33:15.799> the<00:33:15.879> cost<00:33:16.152> of<00:33:16.216> printing<00:33:16.521> a<00:33:16.601> paper<00:33:17.324> and<00:33:17.500> that<00:33:18.607> in<00:33:18.687> its<00:33:18.767> stead<00:33:19.183> will<00:33:19.728> rise<00:33:21.346> other<00:33:21.507> things.

00:33:21.891 --> 00:33:26.121
Now,<00:33:22.292> I<00:33:22.468> realize<00:33:23.510> that<00:33:23.750> that's<00:33:24.134> not—<00:33:25.048> it's<00:33:25.256> easier<00:33:25.432> said<00:33:25.593> than<00:33:25.753> done.

00:33:26.233 --> 00:33:33.219
The<00:33:26.330> nation,<00:33:26.650> the<00:33:26.778> world,<00:33:27.115> the<00:33:27.419> country<00:33:27.772> is<00:33:27.996> full<00:33:28.236> of<00:33:28.957> communities<00:33:29.502> that<00:33:29.582> have<00:33:29.759> lost<00:33:30.319> their<00:33:30.464> local<00:33:30.720> paper<00:33:31.185> and<00:33:31.441> nothing<00:33:32.082> like<00:33:32.322> it<00:33:32.386> has<00:33:32.563> been<00:33:32.707> replaced.

00:33:33.284 --> 00:33:34.966
There's<00:33:33.844> no<00:33:34.165> question<00:33:34.549> about<00:33:34.790> that.

00:33:35.927 --> 00:33:41.920
But<00:33:36.793> that's<00:33:37.033> also,<00:33:38.555> I<00:33:38.715> think,<00:33:39.052> that's<00:33:39.292> also<00:33:39.677> a<00:33:40.318> short-term<00:33:41.119> outcome<00:33:41.519> right<00:33:41.712> now.

00:33:42.481 --> 00:33:44.307
We<00:33:42.657> are<00:33:42.977> in<00:33:43.138> the<00:33:43.218> middle<00:33:43.474> of<00:33:43.602> this<00:33:43.779> transition.

00:33:44.964 --> 00:34:02.791
And<00:33:45.525> I<00:33:45.862> I<00:33:45.942> think<00:33:46.183> that<00:33:46.745> the<00:33:47.050> reason<00:33:47.387> we<00:33:47.532> have<00:33:47.869> newspapers<00:33:48.817> is<00:33:48.913> because<00:33:49.556> literally<00:33:49.957> hundreds<00:33:50.439> and<00:33:50.520> hundreds<00:33:51.017> of<00:33:51.146> years<00:33:51.419> ago,<00:33:52.190> as<00:33:52.286> soon<00:33:52.832> as<00:33:53.170> we<00:33:53.411> had<00:33:53.716> the<00:33:53.812> ability<00:33:54.374> to<00:33:54.599> disseminate<00:33:55.274> information,<00:33:56.286> we<00:33:56.318> started<00:33:56.768> to<00:33:56.848> say,<00:33:57.587> people<00:33:57.828> need<00:33:57.988> to<00:33:58.085> know<00:33:58.229> what's<00:33:58.406> going<00:33:58.695> on,<00:33:59.209> and<00:33:59.434> we're<00:33:59.675> gonna<00:33:59.851> start<00:34:00.141> to<00:34:00.301> collect<00:34:00.622> that<00:34:00.783> information<00:34:01.281> and<00:34:01.442> distribute<00:34:02.771> it.

00:34:02.791 --> 00:34:03.819
That's<00:34:03.048> not<00:34:03.289> gonna<00:34:03.530> change.

00:34:04.236 --> 00:34:05.296
That's<00:34:04.477> not<00:34:04.654> going<00:34:04.959> away.

00:34:05.441 --> 00:34:16.616
People<00:34:06.340> want<00:34:06.646> to<00:34:06.726> know<00:34:07.144> what's<00:34:07.384> happening<00:34:07.786> in<00:34:07.866> their<00:34:08.027> communities,<00:34:09.055> or<00:34:09.151> they<00:34:09.296> want<00:34:09.472> to<00:34:09.569> know,<00:34:09.954> and<00:34:10.099> you<00:34:10.179> can<00:34:10.276> define<00:34:10.597> communities<00:34:11.079> however<00:34:11.384> you<00:34:11.544> want,<00:34:11.801> whether<00:34:12.026> that's<00:34:12.283> local<00:34:12.588> community<00:34:13.167> or<00:34:13.311> business<00:34:13.632> community<00:34:15.013> or<00:34:15.734> interest<00:34:16.216> community.

00:34:17.402 --> 00:34:29.542
And<00:34:17.739> so<00:34:19.359> I<00:34:19.503> think<00:34:19.808> right<00:34:19.984> now<00:34:20.289> we<00:34:20.385> are<00:34:20.545> figuring<00:34:21.010> out<00:34:21.732> what<00:34:21.908> is<00:34:22.069> the<00:34:22.309> model<00:34:23.191> that<00:34:23.336> makes<00:34:23.576> sense<00:34:24.138> in<00:34:24.234> today's<00:34:25.677> marketplace<00:34:26.800> that<00:34:26.960> supports<00:34:27.441> that,<00:34:27.922> that,<00:34:28.243> that,<00:34:28.483> that<00:34:28.660> interest<00:34:29.061> and<00:34:29.125> that<00:34:29.269> drive.

00:34:29.686 --> 00:34:36.277
And,<00:34:29.991> and<00:34:30.071> I<00:34:30.167> think<00:34:30.263> that<00:34:30.392> we'll<00:34:30.552> find<00:34:30.809> it,<00:34:31.210> and<00:34:31.274> we're<00:34:31.915> already<00:34:32.236> finding—<00:34:32.653> there<00:34:32.733> are<00:34:32.813> a<00:34:32.893> lot<00:34:33.054> of<00:34:33.134> interesting<00:34:33.519> experiments,<00:34:34.561> and<00:34:35.042> I'm<00:34:35.299> excited<00:34:35.700> to<00:34:35.828> see<00:34:36.020> them.

00:34:36.566 --> 00:34:43.288
And<00:34:36.678> it<00:34:36.742> doesn't<00:34:36.983> mean<00:34:37.127> that<00:34:37.223> there<00:34:37.368> isn't<00:34:38.009> a<00:34:38.025> lot<00:34:38.121> of<00:34:38.185> short-term<00:34:38.827> pain<00:34:39.452> and<00:34:39.548> that<00:34:39.645> communities<00:34:40.495> are<00:34:41.152> are<00:34:41.779> vastly<00:34:42.276> underserved<00:34:42.838> by<00:34:42.935> news.

00:34:43.802 --> 00:34:54.865
But<00:34:44.203> I<00:34:44.348> don't<00:34:44.589> think<00:34:44.765> that<00:34:44.926> just<00:34:45.167> because<00:34:45.873> one<00:34:46.130> model<00:34:46.435> disappears<00:34:47.495> that<00:34:48.201> it<00:34:48.362> is<00:34:48.779> gone<00:34:49.117> forever<00:34:49.743> or<00:34:49.839> that<00:34:50.144> the<00:34:50.786> fulfillment<00:34:51.429> of<00:34:51.573> the<00:34:51.750> need<00:34:52.232> that<00:34:52.553> drove<00:34:52.954> that<00:34:53.131> model<00:34:53.355> to<00:34:53.500> exist<00:34:53.693> in<00:34:53.773> the<00:34:53.901> first<00:34:54.142> place<00:34:54.319> is<00:34:54.463> gone<00:34:54.640> forever.

00:34:55.925 --> 00:35:09.477
When<00:34:56.085> someone<00:34:56.390> visits<00:34:56.711> your<00:34:56.808> website,<00:34:57.049> and<00:34:57.273> I<00:34:57.370> highly<00:34:57.610> recommend<00:34:58.012> they<00:34:58.092> do<00:34:58.333> because<00:34:58.734> there's<00:34:59.312> a<00:34:59.457> full,<00:34:59.858> even<00:35:00.099> more<00:35:00.324> description<00:35:00.806> of<00:35:00.918> your<00:35:01.063> book<00:35:01.368> and<00:35:01.448> everything<00:35:01.785> you've<00:35:01.946> done,<00:35:03.375> but<00:35:03.487> your<00:35:03.857> first<00:35:04.113> thing<00:35:04.274> that<00:35:04.418> you<00:35:04.515> say,<00:35:04.740> kind<00:35:04.900> of<00:35:04.932> like<00:35:05.077> the<00:35:05.157> call<00:35:05.414> to<00:35:05.542> action<00:35:05.864> is<00:35:06.024> you<00:35:06.586> want<00:35:06.843> to<00:35:06.988> help<00:35:07.405> you<00:35:07.630> reach<00:35:07.952> your<00:35:08.209> "wouldn't<00:35:08.449> go<00:35:08.690> back"<00:35:09.076> moment.

00:35:10.056 --> 00:35:12.224
What<00:35:10.281> is<00:35:10.377> a<00:35:10.522> "wouldn't<00:35:11.421> go<00:35:11.582> back"<00:35:11.903> moment?

00:35:12.851 --> 00:35:13.445
You<00:35:12.947> know,<00:35:13.092> it's<00:35:13.252> funny.

00:35:14.489 --> 00:35:18.697
So,<00:35:14.650> right,<00:35:14.875> that's<00:35:15.196> if<00:35:15.292> you<00:35:15.356> go<00:35:15.453> to<00:35:15.501> my<00:35:15.597> website,<00:35:16.545> it<00:35:16.625> says—<00:35:17.268> I'm<00:35:17.702> going<00:35:17.798> to<00:35:17.926> pull<00:35:18.007> up<00:35:18.087> my<00:35:18.232> website<00:35:18.553> right<00:35:18.649> now.

00:35:18.826 --> 00:35:19.934
So,<00:35:18.971> I<00:35:19.051> have<00:35:19.276> the<00:35:19.356> exact<00:35:19.613> language.

00:35:20.721 --> 00:35:20.914
Whoops.

00:35:21.701 --> 00:35:23.564
Sticking<00:35:21.942> me<00:35:22.039> to<00:35:22.119> my<00:35:22.810> WordPress<00:35:23.291> login.

00:35:23.950 --> 00:35:25.717
That's<00:35:24.866> not<00:35:25.572> it.

00:35:26.375 --> 00:35:27.805
So,<00:35:27.403> that's<00:35:27.644> right.

00:35:27.982 --> 00:35:31.001
It<00:35:28.062> says,<00:35:28.351> well,<00:35:28.528> if<00:35:28.672> you<00:35:28.753> go<00:35:28.785> to<00:35:28.897> my<00:35:29.010> very—<00:35:29.572> the<00:35:29.652> very<00:35:29.893> front<00:35:30.070> of<00:35:30.118> my<00:35:30.214> site,<00:35:30.520> you<00:35:30.696> know,<00:35:30.761> it<00:35:30.793> says—.

00:35:31.001 --> 00:35:31.949
Change<00:35:31.162> is<00:35:31.323> inevitable.

00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.296
It<00:35:32.224> says,<00:35:32.533> "Change<00:35:32.793> is<00:35:32.874> inevitable.

00:35:33.345 --> 00:35:34.351
Thriving<00:35:33.815> is<00:35:33.929> up<00:35:34.075> to<00:35:34.237> you.

00:35:34.432 --> 00:35:35.926
I'll<00:35:34.725> show<00:35:34.887> you<00:35:35.049> how."<00:35:35.374> You<00:35:35.455> know,<00:35:35.601> it's<00:35:35.780> funny.

00:35:37.890 --> 00:35:39.105
So,<00:35:38.165> it<00:35:38.230> originally<00:35:38.570> said<00:35:38.749> something<00:35:38.976> else.

00:35:39.154 --> 00:35:41.812
It<00:35:39.186> originally<00:35:39.624> said,<00:35:40.256> "Champion<00:35:41.002> of<00:35:41.164> change.

00:35:42.056 --> 00:35:50.650
Guy<00:35:42.445> who<00:35:42.542> gets<00:35:42.769> you<00:35:42.866> excited<00:35:43.271> about<00:35:43.498> the<00:35:43.596> future."<00:35:44.552> And<00:35:44.892> that's<00:35:46.328> how<00:35:46.586> I<00:35:46.731> had<00:35:46.924> the<00:35:47.005> website<00:35:47.473> designed<00:35:48.021> was<00:35:48.118> with<00:35:48.279> that<00:35:48.521> language<00:35:48.860> because<00:35:49.005> I<00:35:49.053> had<00:35:49.166> just<00:35:49.408> been<00:35:49.634> using<00:35:49.828> that<00:35:49.973> language<00:35:50.295> for<00:35:50.440> a<00:35:50.521> while.

00:35:52.568 --> 00:35:58.803
And<00:35:52.714> then,<00:35:53.202> out<00:35:53.299> of<00:35:53.461> nowhere,<00:35:54.192> this<00:35:55.232> like<00:35:56.564> freelance<00:35:57.035> copywriter<00:35:58.162> emails<00:35:58.546> me.

00:35:58.883 --> 00:36:00.181
He's,<00:35:59.187> he<00:35:59.428> was<00:35:59.604> really<00:35:59.764> smart.

00:36:00.229 --> 00:36:11.190
He<00:36:00.261> was<00:36:00.469> looking,<00:36:01.046> basically<00:36:01.367> looking<00:36:01.527> for<00:36:01.671> business,<00:36:02.088> but<00:36:02.232> the<00:36:02.264> way<00:36:02.392> he<00:36:02.488> was<00:36:02.633> doing<00:36:02.825> it<00:36:02.953> was<00:36:03.049> by<00:36:03.210> going<00:36:03.386> to<00:36:03.514> people's<00:36:03.802> sites,<00:36:04.411> identifying<00:36:04.892> things<00:36:05.036> that<00:36:05.132> they<00:36:05.213> were<00:36:05.309> doing<00:36:05.533> wrong,<00:36:05.854> and<00:36:05.918> then<00:36:06.094> creating<00:36:06.414> little,<00:36:06.959> um,<00:36:08.017> little<00:36:08.578> like<00:36:08.962> screen<00:36:09.459> videos<00:36:10.164> about<00:36:10.404> it<00:36:10.501> where<00:36:10.661> he<00:36:10.725> was<00:36:10.885> explaining.

00:36:12.103 --> 00:36:19.282
And<00:36:12.167> he<00:36:12.263> told<00:36:12.423> me,<00:36:12.568> he<00:36:12.600> was<00:36:12.728> like,<00:36:12.888> look,<00:36:14.330> uh,<00:36:14.571> you<00:36:14.651> go<00:36:14.731> to<00:36:14.763> your<00:36:14.843> website<00:36:15.164> and<00:36:15.228> it's<00:36:15.372> all<00:36:15.404> about<00:36:15.692> you,<00:36:16.510> but<00:36:16.750> your<00:36:16.830> website<00:36:17.151> should<00:36:17.295> be<00:36:17.391> all<00:36:17.535> about<00:36:18.032> the<00:36:18.176> person<00:36:18.513> coming<00:36:18.753> to<00:36:18.833> the<00:36:18.913> website.

00:36:19.730 --> 00:36:22.134
So<00:36:20.259> it<00:36:20.291> shouldn't<00:36:20.596> be<00:36:20.980> about<00:36:21.157> like<00:36:21.541> what<00:36:21.782> you<00:36:22.022> are.

00:36:22.278 --> 00:36:23.416
Who<00:36:22.423> cares<00:36:22.663> that<00:36:22.743> you're<00:36:22.839> a<00:36:22.903> champion<00:36:23.240> change?

00:36:23.560 --> 00:36:27.490
It<00:36:23.704> should<00:36:23.881> be<00:36:24.041> that<00:36:24.602> It<00:36:24.666> should<00:36:24.762> be<00:36:24.987> what<00:36:25.164> you<00:36:25.324> are<00:36:25.404> going<00:36:25.549> to<00:36:25.645> deliver<00:36:26.046> of<00:36:26.206> value<00:36:26.591> to<00:36:26.623> the<00:36:26.752> person<00:36:27.008> who's<00:36:27.153> arriving.

00:36:27.570 --> 00:36:31.581
And<00:36:27.650> I<00:36:27.714> was<00:36:27.763> like,<00:36:27.955> crap,<00:36:28.276> you<00:36:28.308> are<00:36:28.372> exactly<00:36:29.190> like—<00:36:29.399> I<00:36:29.736> told<00:36:30.057> people<00:36:30.297> that<00:36:30.602> and<00:36:30.682> then<00:36:30.763> I<00:36:30.859> didn't<00:36:31.019> do<00:36:31.180> it<00:36:31.244> myself.

00:36:32.142 --> 00:36:34.805
So,<00:36:32.575> so<00:36:33.490> I'm<00:36:33.586> working<00:36:33.907> on<00:36:34.132> it,<00:36:34.629> right?

00:36:34.870 --> 00:36:42.426
But<00:36:35.174> I—<00:36:35.495> right<00:36:35.672> now,<00:36:36.715> it<00:36:36.859> says<00:36:37.100> change<00:36:37.356> is<00:36:37.437> inevitable,<00:36:37.918> thriving<00:36:38.303> is<00:36:38.399> up<00:36:38.560> to<00:36:38.640> you,<00:36:38.720> I'll<00:36:38.816> show<00:36:39.025> you<00:36:39.185> how,<00:36:39.378> which<00:36:39.538> is<00:36:39.763> my<00:36:40.003> effort<00:36:41.511> to,<00:36:41.768> to<00:36:41.929> turn<00:36:42.233> that.

00:36:42.554 --> 00:36:44.479
And<00:36:42.747> if<00:36:42.827> anyone<00:36:43.116> has<00:36:43.228> a<00:36:43.292> better<00:36:43.533> idea,<00:36:43.854> please<00:36:44.078> let<00:36:44.239> me<00:36:44.271> know.

00:36:44.977 --> 00:36:49.838
But,<00:36:45.859> but<00:36:45.955> the<00:36:46.084> wouldn't<00:36:46.260> go<00:36:46.340> back,<00:36:46.661> which<00:36:46.822> I<00:36:46.838> guess<00:36:46.998> appears<00:36:47.303> on<00:36:47.383> some<00:36:47.608> other<00:36:48.185> page<00:36:48.731> of<00:36:48.827> the,<00:36:49.132> of<00:36:49.292> the<00:36:49.693> thing.

00:36:50.191 --> 00:36:51.699
Scroll<00:36:50.833> down,<00:36:51.089> you<00:36:51.169> talk<00:36:51.410> about<00:36:51.635> it.

00:36:51.779 --> 00:36:53.255
Oh,<00:36:51.875> it's<00:36:52.100> like<00:36:52.196> to<00:36:52.260> help<00:36:52.501> you<00:36:52.581> reach<00:36:52.902> your<00:36:53.143> one.

00:36:53.383 --> 00:36:54.057
Oh,<00:36:53.624> yes,<00:36:53.801> that's<00:36:53.945> right.

00:36:54.442 --> 00:36:56.703
It's<00:36:54.923> in<00:36:55.003> the<00:36:55.100> very<00:36:55.966> beginning<00:36:56.222> of<00:36:56.302> my<00:36:56.447> bio.

00:36:56.767 --> 00:36:57.441
Hi,<00:36:56.944> I'm<00:36:57.152> Jason.

00:36:57.906 --> 00:37:03.406
I'm<00:36:58.050> the<00:36:58.130> editor-in-chief<00:36:58.547> of<00:36:58.612> Entrepreneur<00:36:58.884> Magazine,<00:36:59.317> a<00:36:59.333> podcast<00:36:59.798> host,<00:37:00.295> book<00:37:00.600> author,<00:37:00.857> keynote<00:37:01.113> speaker,<00:37:01.434> startup<00:37:01.755> advisor,<00:37:02.204> nonstop<00:37:02.685> optimism<00:37:03.118> machine.

00:37:03.487 --> 00:37:05.924
That's<00:37:03.663> a<00:37:03.679> little<00:37:03.807> phrase<00:37:04.048> I<00:37:04.064> came<00:37:04.304> up<00:37:04.385> with<00:37:04.545> that<00:37:04.689> people<00:37:04.930> like,<00:37:05.170> and<00:37:05.251> so<00:37:05.331> I<00:37:05.427> keep<00:37:05.668> using<00:37:05.892> it.

00:37:06.469 --> 00:37:08.394
And<00:37:06.550> I<00:37:06.630> can<00:37:06.790> help<00:37:07.015> you<00:37:07.111> reach<00:37:07.271> your<00:37:07.496> wouldn't-go-back<00:37:08.057> moment,<00:37:08.233> right?

00:37:08.458 --> 00:37:16.813
So,<00:37:08.618> wouldn't<00:37:08.795> go<00:37:08.939> back<00:37:10.222> comes<00:37:10.462> out<00:37:10.639> of<00:37:10.783> that<00:37:10.960> 4<00:37:11.280> phases<00:37:11.697> of<00:37:11.826> change<00:37:12.804> that<00:37:12.964> I<00:37:13.124> told<00:37:13.830> you<00:37:13.910> about<00:37:14.087> that<00:37:14.808> is<00:37:14.888> really<00:37:15.129> the<00:37:15.354> payoff<00:37:15.851> to<00:37:16.332> my<00:37:16.492> book.

00:37:17.839 --> 00:37:31.446
And<00:37:17.951> the<00:37:18.096> argument<00:37:18.416> there<00:37:18.593> is<00:37:18.721> that<00:37:19.603> everyone<00:37:20.004> has<00:37:21.303> waiting<00:37:21.623> for<00:37:21.783> them<00:37:22.729> a<00:37:22.905> wouldn't-go-back<00:37:23.610> moment,<00:37:23.931> which<00:37:24.091> is<00:37:24.187> to<00:37:24.331> say<00:37:24.507> the<00:37:24.620> moment<00:37:24.972> where<00:37:25.132> you<00:37:25.245> say,<00:37:25.693> "I<00:37:25.773> have<00:37:25.950> something<00:37:26.190> so<00:37:26.334> new<00:37:26.751> and<00:37:26.895> valuable<00:37:27.696> that<00:37:27.776> I<00:37:27.937> wouldn't<00:37:28.177> want<00:37:28.353> to<00:37:28.417> go<00:37:28.514> back<00:37:28.738> to<00:37:28.834> a<00:37:28.850> time<00:37:29.074> before<00:37:29.379> I<00:37:29.459> had<00:37:29.796> it,"<00:37:30.260> which<00:37:30.421> we<00:37:30.581> all<00:37:30.741> can<00:37:30.997> think<00:37:31.318> of.

00:37:31.879 --> 00:37:42.583
And<00:37:32.263> we<00:37:32.424> all<00:37:32.840> are<00:37:33.481> the<00:37:33.625> products<00:37:34.106> of<00:37:34.202> these<00:37:34.363> wouldn't-go-back<00:37:34.923> moments<00:37:35.244> where<00:37:35.388> we<00:37:35.885> went<00:37:36.125> through<00:37:36.221> some<00:37:36.750> kind<00:37:36.830> of<00:37:36.911> great<00:37:37.087> change<00:37:37.632> and<00:37:37.888> on<00:37:38.032> the<00:37:38.112> other<00:37:38.225> side<00:37:38.529> of<00:37:38.609> it,<00:37:38.849> had<00:37:39.010> some<00:37:39.250> new<00:37:39.394> way<00:37:39.555> of<00:37:39.651> thinking<00:37:39.875> about<00:37:40.051> ourselves<00:37:40.612> or<00:37:40.692> a<00:37:40.756> business.

00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:44.618
And<00:37:43.080> we<00:37:43.176> wouldn't<00:37:43.801> ever<00:37:43.961> want<00:37:44.090> to<00:37:44.138> give<00:37:44.282> that<00:37:44.442> up.

00:37:44.698 --> 00:37:48.329
We're<00:37:44.859> grateful<00:37:45.323> to<00:37:45.404> have<00:37:45.564> had<00:37:45.804> it<00:37:45.916> despite<00:37:46.301> how<00:37:46.740> challenging<00:37:47.208> it<00:37:47.275> might<00:37:47.442> have<00:37:47.526> been<00:37:47.860> to<00:37:48.011> get<00:37:48.262> there.

00:37:49.887 --> 00:37:57.423
And<00:37:50.775> as<00:37:50.871> I<00:37:50.952> was<00:37:51.824> searching<00:37:52.647> for—<00:37:53.615> I<00:37:53.631> mean,<00:37:53.841> just<00:37:54.083> sort<00:37:54.244> of<00:37:54.341> like<00:37:54.825> kind<00:37:54.970> of<00:37:55.051> stepping<00:37:55.390> back<00:37:55.632> and<00:37:55.697> getting<00:37:55.874> meta<00:37:56.100> about<00:37:56.423> it<00:37:56.600> in<00:37:56.665> a<00:37:56.681> personal<00:37:57.004> branding<00:37:57.327> way.

00:37:57.488 --> 00:38:09.205
But<00:37:57.714> as<00:37:57.811> I<00:37:57.891> was<00:37:58.133> thinking<00:37:58.392> about<00:37:58.682> what<00:37:58.844> is<00:37:58.940> the<00:37:59.070> language<00:37:59.651> that<00:37:59.747> I<00:37:59.893> can<00:38:00.135> use<00:38:01.264> that<00:38:01.829> is<00:38:01.926> distinctive,<00:38:02.895> but<00:38:03.056> also<00:38:03.459> that<00:38:03.685> really<00:38:04.008> builds<00:38:04.331> off<00:38:04.444> of<00:38:04.589> the<00:38:04.815> work<00:38:05.138> that<00:38:05.235> I<00:38:05.461> have,<00:38:08.348> what<00:38:08.445> can<00:38:08.655> I<00:38:08.898> offer?

00:38:10.917 --> 00:38:14.060
And<00:38:11.240> I'm<00:38:11.887> kind<00:38:12.048> of<00:38:12.145> obsessed<00:38:12.630> with<00:38:12.775> the<00:38:12.872> way<00:38:13.115> that<00:38:13.276> other<00:38:13.599> people<00:38:13.852> to<00:38:13.884> do<00:38:13.996> this.

00:38:14.172 --> 00:38:20.998
Like,<00:38:14.268> it's<00:38:14.476> really,<00:38:14.733> you<00:38:14.797> know,<00:38:15.037> um,<00:38:15.374> if<00:38:15.518> you<00:38:15.678> look<00:38:15.839> at,<00:38:16.015> like,<00:38:16.239> if<00:38:16.335> you<00:38:16.399> go<00:38:16.431> to<00:38:16.496> marieforleo.com—<00:38:18.482> Marie<00:38:18.819> Forleo<00:38:19.236> is,<00:38:19.524> you<00:38:19.556> know,<00:38:19.716> sort<00:38:19.861> of<00:38:20.005> like<00:38:20.341> life<00:38:20.742> guru.

00:38:21.527 --> 00:38:24.796
It<00:38:21.623> says,<00:38:22.008> 'Are<00:38:22.168> you<00:38:22.344> ready<00:38:22.665> for<00:38:22.905> a<00:38:22.985> whole<00:38:23.306> new<00:38:23.546> life?'<00:38:24.171> Uh,<00:38:24.267> at<00:38:24.347> the<00:38:24.427> very<00:38:24.652> front.

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That's<00:38:25.052> so<00:38:25.229> interesting,<00:38:25.629> right?

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And<00:38:25.870> then<00:38:25.934> you<00:38:25.966> scroll<00:38:26.206> down,<00:38:26.366> it<00:38:26.414> says,<00:38:26.671> 'Learn<00:38:26.975> how<00:38:27.007> to<00:38:27.135> get<00:38:27.312> anything<00:38:27.696> you<00:38:27.856> want.'<00:38:28.129> It's<00:38:28.417> so,<00:38:29.331> it's<00:38:29.443> so<00:38:29.715> focused<00:38:30.260> on,<00:38:30.677> on<00:38:30.757> the<00:38:30.917> visitor.

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And,<00:38:31.622> you<00:38:31.702> know,<00:38:31.943> I'm<00:38:32.119> not<00:38:32.343> like<00:38:32.503> a<00:38:32.600> life<00:38:32.904> guru.

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Um,<00:38:34.426> I'm<00:38:34.667> a<00:38:34.699> more<00:38:34.923> practically<00:38:35.404> grounded,<00:38:36.269> uh,<00:38:36.670> uh,<00:38:36.846> business,<00:38:37.551> uh,<00:38:38.032> uh,<00:38:38.368> guide.

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And<00:38:39.009> so,<00:38:39.554> but<00:38:39.730> I,<00:38:39.810> but<00:38:39.955> I<00:38:40.115> also<00:38:40.692> mindful<00:38:41.173> that<00:38:42.039> for<00:38:42.135> a<00:38:42.199> lot<00:38:42.360> of<00:38:42.440> people,<00:38:42.760> business<00:38:43.177> is<00:38:43.322> also<00:38:43.562> their<00:38:43.723> lives<00:38:44.284> and<00:38:44.605> also<00:38:44.781> that<00:38:44.941> it<00:38:45.086> is<00:38:45.182> a<00:38:45.262> real—<00:38:45.422> like,<00:38:45.903> the<00:38:46.064> tenets<00:38:46.401> of<00:38:46.529> entrepreneurship<00:38:47.042> and<00:38:47.186> business<00:38:48.774> also<00:38:49.175> teach<00:38:49.367> you<00:38:49.512> a<00:38:49.576> lot<00:38:49.768> about<00:38:49.993> how<00:38:50.073> to<00:38:50.153> manage<00:38:50.474> your<00:38:50.618> life<00:38:51.035> because<00:38:51.372> it's<00:38:52.061> all<00:38:52.158> about<00:38:52.542> ambition<00:38:53.120> and<00:38:53.521> goal<00:38:53.697> setting<00:38:54.226> and<00:38:54.306> so<00:38:54.547> on.

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So,<00:38:54.868> I'm<00:38:55.204> trying<00:38:55.381> to<00:38:55.509> kind<00:38:55.621> of<00:38:56.872> live<00:38:56.984> in<00:38:57.065> that<00:38:57.273> space.

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And<00:38:58.492> "Wouldn't<00:38:58.732> go<00:38:58.893> back"<00:38:59.278> became<00:38:59.935> this<00:39:00.737> phrase<00:39:02.004> that,<00:39:02.581> one,<00:39:03.222> feels<00:39:03.415> like<00:39:03.527> a<00:39:03.607> great<00:39:03.784> payoff<00:39:04.120> to<00:39:04.201> that<00:39:04.489> 4<00:39:04.730> Phases<00:39:05.067> of<00:39:05.147> Change<00:39:05.532> story<00:39:05.852> that<00:39:05.949> I<00:39:06.093> tell<00:39:06.333> but<00:39:06.494> also<00:39:06.911> then,<00:39:07.512> becomes<00:39:08.059> a<00:39:09.928> fairly<00:39:10.331> clear—<00:39:10.653> even<00:39:10.798> if<00:39:10.878> you<00:39:10.911> don't<00:39:11.120> exactly<00:39:11.458> know<00:39:11.603> what<00:39:11.700> I<00:39:11.780> mean,<00:39:12.264> you<00:39:12.344> hear<00:39:12.747> "wouldn't<00:39:12.988> go<00:39:13.150> back"<00:39:13.472> and<00:39:13.617> you<00:39:13.713> think,<00:39:13.955> well,<00:39:14.422> that<00:39:14.583> sounds<00:39:14.841> good.

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I<00:39:15.888> want<00:39:16.049> that.

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What<00:39:16.307> is<00:39:17.584> that?

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And<00:39:17.989> so,<00:39:18.151> that's<00:39:18.701> what<00:39:18.782> I've<00:39:18.862> been<00:39:18.959> playing<00:39:19.186> around<00:39:19.429> with.

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But<00:39:19.671> yeah,<00:39:21.952> I<00:39:22.033> talked<00:39:22.179> to<00:39:22.276> some<00:39:22.438> people<00:39:22.745> who<00:39:23.635> I<00:39:23.651> was<00:39:23.732> just<00:39:23.894> interviewing.

00:39:26.532 --> 00:39:27.527
I<00:39:26.597> was<00:39:26.695> just—<00:39:27.005> well,<00:39:27.332> interview.

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I<00:39:27.674> was<00:39:27.821> just<00:39:27.903> talking<00:39:28.229> to<00:39:28.653> Lewis<00:39:28.898> Howes,<00:39:30.105> who<00:39:30.693> got<00:39:30.839> a<00:39:31.003> gigantic<00:39:31.508> personal<00:39:31.818> brand,<00:39:32.145> and<00:39:32.308> he's<00:39:32.888> He<00:39:33.985> has<00:39:34.308> hired<00:39:34.647> people<00:39:35.131> to<00:39:35.212> sit<00:39:35.454> down<00:39:35.615> with<00:39:35.712> him<00:39:35.858> for<00:39:36.019> days<00:39:36.568> to<00:39:36.890> talk<00:39:37.133> through<00:39:37.229> his<00:39:37.391> story<00:39:37.939> and<00:39:38.036> kind<00:39:38.165> of<00:39:38.198> refine<00:39:38.585> his<00:39:38.682> story<00:39:39.101> and<00:39:39.795> pick<00:39:39.908> apart<00:39:40.134> his<00:39:40.296> life<00:39:40.538> and<00:39:40.619> put<00:39:40.780> it<00:39:40.861> on<00:39:41.119> sticky<00:39:41.506> notes<00:39:41.748> and<00:39:41.829> put<00:39:41.958> it<00:39:42.055> on<00:39:42.120> a<00:39:42.217> wall.

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And<00:39:43.050> that<00:39:43.131> sounds<00:39:43.295> like<00:39:43.393> such<00:39:43.621> an<00:39:43.703> interesting<00:39:44.094> process.

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I've<00:39:44.519> never<00:39:44.747> gone<00:39:44.927> through<00:39:45.172> it.

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And<00:39:45.416> so,<00:39:45.563> I'm<00:39:45.808> really<00:39:46.184> like,<00:39:47.736> I'm<00:39:48.075> a<00:39:48.155> constant<00:39:48.623> work<00:39:48.817> in<00:39:48.881> progress<00:39:49.382> to<00:39:49.527> figure<00:39:49.753> out<00:39:50.883> how<00:39:51.221> do<00:39:51.318> I<00:39:51.544> take<00:39:52.109> what<00:39:52.254> I<00:39:52.351> know<00:39:53.158> and<00:39:53.319> make<00:39:53.545> it<00:39:54.530> as<00:39:54.756> clearly<00:39:55.240> relevant<00:39:55.579> to<00:39:55.724> people<00:39:55.901> as<00:39:56.063> possible.

00:39:58.140 --> 00:39:59.737
Jason,<00:39:58.575> I<00:39:58.656> could<00:39:58.753> talk<00:39:58.914> to<00:39:58.979> you<00:39:59.124> for<00:39:59.285> hours.

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Thank<00:40:00.028> you<00:40:00.108> so<00:40:00.286> much<00:40:00.673> for<00:40:01.141> coming<00:40:01.464> on.

00:40:01.706 --> 00:40:04.633
I<00:40:01.787> highly<00:40:02.029> recommend<00:40:02.368> everyone<00:40:02.674> go<00:40:02.707> check<00:40:02.755> out<00:40:03.650> Build<00:40:03.938> for<00:40:04.090> Tomorrow.

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Check<00:40:04.955> out<00:40:05.108> your<00:40:05.277> website.

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Best<00:40:06.706> of<00:40:06.787> luck<00:40:06.965> with<00:40:07.110> everything,<00:40:07.530> and<00:40:07.610> I'm<00:40:07.933> sure<00:40:08.240> we'll,<00:40:08.724> uh,<00:40:08.885> we'll<00:40:08.998> see<00:40:09.208> you<00:40:09.240> around.

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We'll<00:40:09.660> see<00:40:09.789> you<00:40:09.870> back.

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I<00:40:10.984> appreciate<00:40:11.306> it.

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It<00:40:11.500> was<00:40:11.645> great<00:40:11.807> to<00:40:11.888> be<00:40:11.936> here.