The license nobody else could get

About 10 companies in America hold the national charter required to calculate and transmit taxes to the federal government and all 50 states. Most were built in the '80s and '90s. Intuit and H&R Block are the ones you know. For more than 15 years, no new company joined the list. Then, in early 2025, april did.

Ben Borodach, april's co-founder and CEO, joined the CEO.com Podcast to talk about how and why he spent four years and tens of millions of dollars building tax infrastructure most people will never see.

The math behind the bet is straightforward. Taxes are the largest single expense most American households pay in a year, on par with housing. Roughly 150 million households and 30 million small businesses account for nearly half of the $5 trillion the federal government collects annually. "Most Americans have no idea how to optimize this spend, how to take advantage of the tax law," Borodach said. "They're really just chalking it up at the end of the year to basically saying, hey, I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to spend some money and basically get out of here as quickly as possible."

april embeds filing, planning, and withholding tools inside banks, payroll providers, and investment platforms. You engage with your taxes where you get paid and where you store your money, not at a strip mall storefront in the second week of April. "Our mission here at april is to help everybody be a sophisticated investor," he said, "and take advantage of the tax law as it applies to them."

Building it required a technology stack that did not exist. Borodach's co-founder, Daniel Marcous, was previously CTO of Waze, and before ChatGPT launched, the two bet on code automation, building a proprietary system to translate tax law into software. Borodach compares the company to a biopharmaceutical business. There is a long, expensive build at the beginning, and then things move fast. april raised nearly $40 million in its first year and stayed pre-revenue for almost three. On the day we recorded, Borodach announced a $38 million Series B led by QED Investors, bringing total funding to $78 million. Since turning on monetization, he says, the business has roughly doubled every quarter.

For a founder whose company exists because of AI, Borodach is unusually skeptical of the current mania. He came up during the cloud and mobile waves and remembers when every company rebranded around the technology of the day. "When people say I'm an AI CRM, I just think that they don't understand the problem they're solving," he said. "I get asked now what's my AI roadmap? To me, that's the wrong question. You should be asking how is your roadmap accelerated by AI?" He is not sold on the agent future either. "I don't know that I'm just going to be giving instructions to my LLM, and they're going to be booking my flights. I'm also not convinced that that really saves me that much time."

Borodach started his first venture-backed company as an NYU undergrad after winning $12,500 in a class competition, working out of one of the first WeWorks on Varick Street between lectures. It mostly taught him how much he did not know. He went to Deloitte and became the firm's fintech lead, advising boards at AIG, American Express, and Citigroup. Then he joined Team8, the venture group founded by Nadav Zafrir, the former commander of Israel's Unit 8200 who now runs Check Point. There he helped build Curv, a blockchain security company PayPal acquired, and Visible Risk, a cyber risk firm BitSight bought as part of its venture with Moody's, while the fund grew from about $40 million under management to about $1 billion in four years.

We recorded in July 2025. The infrastructure has been compounding since. In January, PayPal announced free federal and state tax filing for its U.S. debit card customers, powered by april, a deal PayPal says saves filers about $160 in typical costs. april has also launched a real-time tax calculator for equity transactions with Nasdaq Private Market and introduced a platform for wealth management firms. "In the world of tax," Borodach told Accounting Today in February, "you want to be right before you go fast."

Borodach and Marcous didn't agree to partner until they traded a written manifesto back and forth, editing each other's drafts until no red lines remained. Both had watched smart, hardworking people let ego ruin good companies. "Culture is really what happens when you're not in the room," Borodach said, citing Ben Horowitz. "If you look at the aggregate amount of time spent by our people, most of the time, my partner and I are not there."

Asked who gave him a chance, Borodach named Zafrir, who made a young Deloitte consultant his chief of staff while meeting with heads of state and Fortune 100 CEOs. "You have to pay forward," he said, "because none of us would be here if somebody didn't take a chance on us at some point in time."

00:00:00 Introduction to April and Embedded Taxes
00:01:41 Leveraging AI for Code Automation
00:03:21 Ben Borodach's Entrepreneurial Journey
00:07:46 Raising a Series B for Tax Infrastructure
00:11:23 A Pragmatic View on the AI Boom
00:15:38 Building a Mission-Driven Company Culture
00:18:42 Navigating Macroeconomic Uncertainty and Ecosystems
00:24:07 Mentorship and Paying It Forward

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Uh,<00:03:21.640> so<00:03:21.720> what<00:03:21.860> were<00:03:22.000> you<00:03:22.080> doing<00:03:22.260> prior<00:03:22.580> to<00:03:22.800> April?

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What<00:03:23.200> were<00:03:23.380> you<00:03:23.500> doing?

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Yeah,<00:03:24.520> I<00:03:24.600> have<00:03:24.740> an<00:03:24.840> interesting<00:03:25.220> story.

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You<00:03:25.959> know,<00:03:26.040> I<00:03:26.140> started<00:03:26.400> out<00:03:26.620> as<00:03:26.760> an<00:03:26.860> entrepreneur<00:03:27.280> actually<00:03:27.820> not<00:03:28.100> far<00:03:28.360> from<00:03:28.580> where<00:03:28.740> I<00:03:28.820> am<00:03:29.000> right<00:03:29.140> now.

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Our<00:03:29.620> offices<00:03:29.940> are<00:03:30.240> in,<00:03:30.440> uh,<00:03:30.880> downtown<00:03:31.040> Manhattan.

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I<00:03:32.040> went<00:03:32.220> to<00:03:32.440> NYU<00:03:32.700> and<00:03:32.920> I<00:03:33.120> took<00:03:33.240> this<00:03:33.480> phenomenal<00:03:33.960> class,<00:03:34.580> uh,<00:03:35.180> with<00:03:35.280> a<00:03:35.380> professor<00:03:35.800> named<00:03:36.060> Larry<00:03:36.360> Lenahan,<00:03:36.640> who<00:03:36.880> was<00:03:36.980> also<00:03:37.320> a<00:03:37.540> venture<00:03:37.700> capitalist<00:03:38.220> at<00:03:38.440> FirstMark<00:03:38.780> Capital.

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He<00:03:39.732> backed<00:03:40.117> prolific<00:03:40.453> companies<00:03:40.934> like<00:03:41.159> Pinterest<00:03:41.575> and<00:03:41.639> Shopify,<00:03:42.441> and<00:03:43.098> basically<00:03:43.563> he<00:03:43.723> ran<00:03:43.900> a<00:03:43.964> competition<00:03:44.541> in<00:03:44.605> his<00:03:44.765> class<00:03:45.727> and<00:03:46.208> we<00:03:46.368> won<00:03:46.609> it<00:03:46.769> and<00:03:46.865> we<00:03:46.945> got<00:03:47.122> a<00:03:47.250> whopping<00:03:47.571> $12,500,<00:03:49.029> which<00:03:49.174> was<00:03:49.334> his<00:03:49.414> salary.

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I<00:03:50.344> don't<00:03:50.472> think<00:03:50.616> he<00:03:50.696> really<00:03:50.873> needed<00:03:51.113> the<00:03:51.193> money.

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And<00:03:52.380> I<00:03:52.492> started<00:03:52.861> my<00:03:52.973> first<00:03:53.229> business,<00:03:53.678> and<00:03:53.758> so<00:03:53.999> I<00:03:54.079> parallel<00:03:54.464> tracked<00:03:54.944> my<00:03:55.105> degree<00:03:55.506> at<00:03:55.634> NYU<00:03:56.628> and<00:03:56.884> my<00:03:57.028> first<00:03:57.285> venture-backed<00:03:57.846> company<00:03:58.792> and<00:04:00.234> really<00:04:00.411> cut<00:04:00.651> my<00:04:00.811> teeth.

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It<00:04:01.292> was<00:04:01.549> early<00:04:01.773> in<00:04:01.853> the<00:04:01.934> New<00:04:02.078> York<00:04:02.719> ecosystem.

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I<00:04:03.280> was<00:04:03.440> actually<00:04:03.761> working<00:04:04.162> out<00:04:04.258> of<00:04:04.338> one<00:04:04.498> of<00:04:04.563> the<00:04:04.595> first<00:04:04.899> WeWorks<00:04:05.300> in<00:04:05.380> Varick<00:04:05.621> Street.

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And<00:04:06.422> would<00:04:06.583> shuttle<00:04:06.887> back<00:04:07.144> and<00:04:07.208> forth<00:04:07.465> to<00:04:07.545> my<00:04:07.689> classes.

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And<00:04:08.411> so<00:04:09.052> I<00:04:09.132> learned<00:04:09.373> a<00:04:09.389> lot<00:04:09.774> basically<00:04:10.191> about<00:04:10.431> what<00:04:10.592> not<00:04:10.816> to<00:04:10.896> do<00:04:11.698> and<00:04:11.955> realized<00:04:12.356> how<00:04:12.516> much<00:04:12.821> I<00:04:12.917> didn't<00:04:13.398> know.

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And<00:04:13.976> so<00:04:14.120> I<00:04:14.280> think<00:04:14.922> that's<00:04:15.403> one<00:04:15.579> of<00:04:15.627> my<00:04:15.804> first<00:04:16.125> principles<00:04:16.750> of<00:04:17.071> business<00:04:17.408> in<00:04:17.488> general<00:04:18.033> is<00:04:18.193> you<00:04:18.610> probably<00:04:19.011> know<00:04:19.252> a<00:04:19.268> lot<00:04:19.556> less<00:04:19.797> than<00:04:19.957> you<00:04:20.038> think<00:04:20.214> you<00:04:20.294> know.

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And<00:04:21.240> I<00:04:21.337> realized<00:04:21.657> how<00:04:21.802> much<00:04:21.994> I<00:04:22.058> didn't<00:04:22.315> know.

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And<00:04:22.620> so<00:04:22.764> I<00:04:22.940> went<00:04:23.165> to<00:04:23.261> a<00:04:23.405> place<00:04:23.903> really<00:04:24.785> that<00:04:24.945> didn't<00:04:25.185> make<00:04:25.410> a<00:04:25.426> lot<00:04:25.570> of<00:04:25.602> sense<00:04:25.907> coming<00:04:26.212> from<00:04:26.372> the<00:04:26.468> tech<00:04:26.709> world,<00:04:27.030> but<00:04:27.735> to<00:04:27.896> me<00:04:28.072> made<00:04:28.313> a<00:04:28.329> lot<00:04:28.489> of<00:04:28.553> sense<00:04:28.970> as<00:04:29.435> a<00:04:29.515> place<00:04:29.772> to<00:04:29.916> explore<00:04:30.333> the<00:04:30.478> world<00:04:30.814> and<00:04:30.959> better<00:04:31.280> understand<00:04:32.226> how<00:04:32.322> decisions<00:04:32.804> were<00:04:32.884> made<00:04:33.141> and<00:04:33.270> how<00:04:33.446> businesses<00:04:33.928> worked.

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And<00:04:34.314> so<00:04:34.410> I<00:04:34.490> went<00:04:34.651> to<00:04:34.796> Deloitte<00:04:35.117> Consulting<00:04:36.096> and<00:04:36.257> pretty<00:04:36.482> quickly<00:04:37.124> became<00:04:37.462> the<00:04:37.542> lead<00:04:37.799> for<00:04:37.943> fintech.

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And<00:04:38.602> so<00:04:38.730> I<00:04:38.907> became<00:04:39.228> the<00:04:39.309> person<00:04:40.095> that<00:04:40.256> the<00:04:40.336> firm<00:04:40.593> would<00:04:40.754> call<00:04:41.782> whenever<00:04:42.119> a<00:04:42.264> board<00:04:42.601> of<00:04:42.745> a<00:04:42.761> large<00:04:43.083> insurance<00:04:43.484> company<00:04:44.127> or<00:04:44.287> a<00:04:44.368> large<00:04:45.090> conglomerate<00:04:45.717> would<00:04:45.813> have<00:04:46.134> about,<00:04:46.696> how<00:04:46.809> do<00:04:46.873> we<00:04:47.018> deal<00:04:47.146> with<00:04:47.339> this<00:04:47.564> new<00:04:47.740> up-and-coming<00:04:48.286> payments<00:04:48.624> technology?

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Or<00:04:49.411> what<00:04:49.459> do<00:04:49.523> we<00:04:49.667> do<00:04:49.764> about<00:04:50.069> AI<00:04:50.872> or<00:04:50.952> blockchain?

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And<00:04:51.916> so<00:04:52.060> I<00:04:52.157> got<00:04:52.382> to<00:04:52.462> see<00:04:52.719> some<00:04:52.944> of<00:04:52.976> the<00:04:53.056> largest<00:04:53.586> US<00:04:54.486> financial<00:04:54.887> services<00:04:55.369> businesses,<00:04:55.931> brands<00:04:56.252> like<00:04:56.557> AIG<00:04:57.055> and<00:04:57.136> American<00:04:57.521> Express<00:04:58.019> and<00:04:58.083> Citigroup,<00:04:58.966> really<00:04:59.143> from<00:04:59.368> the<00:04:59.448> highest<00:04:59.769> levels,<00:05:00.829> and<00:05:01.215> quickly<00:05:01.536> realized<00:05:02.018> that—<00:05:02.676> and<00:05:02.741> I'm<00:05:02.789> not<00:05:03.222> pointing<00:05:03.544> to<00:05:03.624> any<00:05:03.720> one<00:05:03.881> of<00:05:03.945> them<00:05:04.042> in<00:05:04.122> particular,<00:05:04.507> but<00:05:04.604> quickly<00:05:04.845> realized<00:05:05.166> that<00:05:06.675> many<00:05:06.932> of<00:05:07.077> the<00:05:07.157> most<00:05:07.334> sophisticated<00:05:08.282> business<00:05:08.683> leaders<00:05:08.940> and<00:05:09.101> businesses<00:05:09.888> also<00:05:10.450> are<00:05:10.771> figuring<00:05:11.108> things<00:05:11.413> out<00:05:11.590> as<00:05:11.751> they<00:05:11.911> go,<00:05:12.216> and<00:05:12.313> information<00:05:12.794> is<00:05:12.939> imperfect,<00:05:13.373> and<00:05:13.437> it's<00:05:13.678> honestly<00:05:14.657> a<00:05:14.706> small<00:05:15.043> miracle<00:05:15.428> that<00:05:15.589> a<00:05:15.605> lot<00:05:15.782> of<00:05:15.830> this<00:05:15.926> stuff<00:05:16.392> works<00:05:17.837> half<00:05:18.030> of<00:05:18.159> the<00:05:18.239> time,<00:05:18.576> right?

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And<00:05:19.620> so,<00:05:20.279> that<00:05:20.568> really<00:05:20.825> inspired<00:05:21.371> me.

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One,<00:05:22.495> it<00:05:22.575> empowered<00:05:22.993> me<00:05:23.378> on<00:05:23.459> the<00:05:23.555> one<00:05:23.700> hand,<00:05:23.796> and<00:05:23.940> on<00:05:24.037> the<00:05:24.181> other<00:05:24.342> hand,<00:05:24.583> I<00:05:24.743> realized,<00:05:25.548> the<00:05:25.629> change<00:05:25.969> wasn't<00:05:26.227> going<00:05:26.454> to<00:05:26.599> come<00:05:27.262> from<00:05:27.488> traditional<00:05:27.973> financial<00:05:28.345> services.

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And<00:05:30.884> I<00:05:30.964> took<00:05:31.142> kind<00:05:31.385> of<00:05:31.466> a<00:05:31.547> detour<00:05:32.985> from<00:05:33.745> a<00:05:34.069> segment<00:05:34.457> perspective<00:05:34.958> and<00:05:35.329> went<00:05:35.523> into<00:05:35.668> cybersecurity,<00:05:36.555> but<00:05:36.716> what<00:05:36.878> I<00:05:36.942> was<00:05:37.120> doing<00:05:37.765> was<00:05:37.926> building<00:05:38.249> companies<00:05:38.717> from<00:05:38.830> scratch<00:05:39.362> at<00:05:39.459> a<00:05:39.475> venture<00:05:39.798> group<00:05:40.023> called<00:05:40.185> T8.

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I<00:05:40.814> joined<00:05:41.056> up<00:05:41.879> with<00:05:42.024> this<00:05:42.201> great<00:05:42.379> individual<00:05:42.927> named<00:05:43.169> Nadav.

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Nadav<00:05:44.605> was<00:05:44.702> the<00:05:44.846> former<00:05:45.907> commander<00:05:46.775> of<00:05:47.193> Unit<00:05:47.499> 8200,<00:05:48.222> which<00:05:48.463> is<00:05:48.512> sort<00:05:48.737> of<00:05:48.801> the<00:05:48.962> NSA<00:05:49.283> equivalent<00:05:50.408> in<00:05:50.553> Israel,<00:05:51.116> a<00:05:51.212> very<00:05:51.518> prolific<00:05:51.936> intelligence<00:05:52.418> unit.

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And<00:05:53.190> Nadav<00:05:53.489> had<00:05:53.722> sort<00:05:54.038> of<00:05:54.105> retired<00:05:54.471> from<00:05:54.704> his<00:05:54.804> military<00:05:55.103> career<00:05:57.142> and<00:05:57.190> was<00:05:57.382> focused<00:05:57.767> on<00:05:57.863> solving<00:05:58.329> tough<00:05:58.585> problems<00:05:58.922> in<00:05:59.002> cybersecurity.

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I<00:06:00.109> really<00:06:00.349> had<00:06:00.590> very<00:06:00.895> little<00:06:01.071> interest<00:06:01.456> in<00:06:01.536> cybersecurity.

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I<00:06:02.434> still<00:06:02.675> think<00:06:03.557> pretty<00:06:03.733> much<00:06:03.958> everything<00:06:04.278> can<00:06:04.439> be<00:06:04.599> hacked,<00:06:04.936> so—<00:06:06.427> and<00:06:06.508> I<00:06:06.540> still<00:06:06.780> don't<00:06:06.989> quite<00:06:07.229> understand<00:06:07.710> the<00:06:07.759> level<00:06:08.047> of<00:06:08.143> spend<00:06:08.592> in<00:06:08.673> cybersecurity.

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It<00:06:09.475> doesn't<00:06:09.875> make<00:06:10.116> a<00:06:10.132> lot<00:06:10.292> of<00:06:10.324> sense<00:06:10.533> to<00:06:10.613> me.

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But<00:06:10.934> anyway,<00:06:11.640> the<00:06:11.736> problems<00:06:12.137> we<00:06:12.217> were<00:06:12.361> tackling,<00:06:13.484> to<00:06:13.644> me,<00:06:13.901> were<00:06:14.061> at<00:06:14.206> the<00:06:14.286> heart<00:06:14.703> of<00:06:14.847> unlocking<00:06:15.328> business<00:06:15.665> productivity,<00:06:16.691> which<00:06:16.932> is<00:06:17.092> if<00:06:17.188> we<00:06:17.349> can—<00:06:18.071> every<00:06:18.231> time<00:06:18.536> I<00:06:18.552> would<00:06:18.712> bring<00:06:18.937> a<00:06:19.017> project<00:06:19.450> in<00:06:19.514> the<00:06:19.658> bank<00:06:19.931> or<00:06:19.995> the<00:06:20.075> insurance<00:06:20.476> company,<00:06:20.781> it<00:06:20.957> would<00:06:21.037> always<00:06:21.262> get<00:06:21.503> killed<00:06:21.839> by<00:06:21.920> the<00:06:22.016> cyber<00:06:22.208> or<00:06:22.240> the<00:06:22.272> compliance.

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It<00:06:22.882> blinds<00:06:23.026> people.

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And<00:06:23.828> what<00:06:23.940> if<00:06:24.085> we<00:06:24.309> built<00:06:25.111> a<00:06:25.368> secure<00:06:25.769> blockchain<00:06:26.234> company<00:06:26.795> or<00:06:26.875> a<00:06:26.907> secure<00:06:27.373> IoT<00:06:27.757> company<00:06:28.640> or<00:06:28.992> a<00:06:29.057> cyber<00:06:29.458> risk<00:06:29.682> company?

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And<00:06:30.099> sure<00:06:30.243> enough,<00:06:30.420> that's<00:06:30.644> what<00:06:30.741> we<00:06:30.901> did.

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And<00:06:31.222> we<00:06:31.446> built<00:06:31.767> one<00:06:31.911> of<00:06:31.944> the<00:06:32.024> first<00:06:32.986> secure<00:06:33.932> blockchain<00:06:34.413> vaults.

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We<00:06:34.766> sold<00:06:35.055> that<00:06:35.215> business<00:06:35.472> to<00:06:35.616> PayPal.

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It<00:06:36.514> became<00:06:36.996> PayPal<00:06:37.236> Crypto.

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We<00:06:37.958> built<00:06:38.263> one<00:06:38.375> of<00:06:38.439> the<00:06:38.503> first<00:06:38.776> cyber<00:06:39.225> risk<00:06:39.482> assessment<00:06:39.867> companies.

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That<00:06:41.101> is<00:06:41.230> now<00:06:41.390> the<00:06:41.486> way<00:06:41.631> that<00:06:41.807> Moody's<00:06:42.128> assesses<00:06:42.513> cyber<00:06:42.914> risk,<00:06:43.170> got<00:06:43.395> bought<00:06:43.571> by<00:06:43.812> BitSight<00:06:44.357> as<00:06:44.534> part<00:06:44.678> of<00:06:44.774> a<00:06:44.838> JV<00:06:45.175> with<00:06:45.336> Moody's.

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And<00:06:52.232> so<00:06:52.377> I<00:06:52.473> got<00:06:52.698> to<00:06:52.778> see<00:06:53.581> both<00:06:53.710> cybersecurity<00:06:54.802> and<00:06:54.946> really<00:06:55.187> risk<00:06:55.444> management<00:06:56.150> from<00:06:56.247> the<00:06:56.343> highest<00:06:56.712> levels.

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I<00:06:57.130> spent<00:06:57.387> a<00:06:57.435> lot<00:06:57.596> of<00:06:57.692> time<00:06:58.736> with<00:06:58.880> some<00:06:59.057> of<00:06:59.121> the<00:06:59.153> former<00:06:59.539> generals<00:07:00.117> and<00:07:00.245> commanders<00:07:00.759> of<00:07:00.823> the<00:07:00.903> largest<00:07:01.305> three-letter<00:07:01.690> agencies,<00:07:02.750> a<00:07:02.814> lot<00:07:02.927> of<00:07:02.991> the<00:07:03.071> CEOs<00:07:03.858> of<00:07:03.954> Fortune<00:07:04.356> 100<00:07:04.741> companies,<00:07:05.640> and<00:07:05.721> got<00:07:05.865> to<00:07:05.961> see<00:07:06.604> the<00:07:06.700> things<00:07:06.989> that<00:07:07.230> were<00:07:07.326> keeping<00:07:07.631> them<00:07:07.792> up<00:07:07.904> at<00:07:07.969> night,<00:07:08.772> the<00:07:08.868> things<00:07:09.093> that<00:07:09.237> they<00:07:09.317> were<00:07:09.494> being<00:07:09.799> asked<00:07:09.960> to<00:07:10.056> do<00:07:10.297> by<00:07:10.682> world<00:07:10.859> leaders,<00:07:11.485> and<00:07:11.662> the<00:07:11.742> risks<00:07:11.967> that<00:07:12.063> they<00:07:12.144> were<00:07:12.304> being<00:07:12.609> able—<00:07:13.187> being<00:07:13.412> asked<00:07:13.573> to<00:07:13.669> manage.

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And<00:07:14.873> so<00:07:14.970> that<00:07:15.178> really<00:07:15.355> inspired<00:07:15.901> me,<00:07:16.543> you<00:07:16.575> know,<00:07:16.800> to<00:07:16.896> be<00:07:17.057> able<00:07:17.218> to<00:07:17.362> go<00:07:17.523> and<00:07:17.603> tackle<00:07:18.004> a<00:07:18.085> really<00:07:18.326> big<00:07:18.583> and<00:07:18.727> audacious<00:07:19.369> problem.

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And<00:07:20.758> we<00:07:20.907> were<00:07:21.006> iterating<00:07:21.486> on<00:07:21.585> the<00:07:21.668> next<00:07:22.231> idea,<00:07:24.780> if<00:07:24.877> you<00:07:24.974> will,<00:07:25.766> with<00:07:25.928> a<00:07:26.008> very<00:07:26.186> talented<00:07:26.687> individual<00:07:27.237> named<00:07:27.544> Ashwin<00:07:27.803> Chhabra<00:07:29.080> who<00:07:29.161> runs<00:07:29.404> the<00:07:29.485> Jim<00:07:29.663> Simons<00:07:30.051> Foundation.

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And<00:07:31.434> that's<00:07:31.676> ultimately<00:07:32.143> what<00:07:32.304> led<00:07:32.481> to<00:07:32.626> April.

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And<00:07:33.302> so<00:07:33.995> I<00:07:34.349> spun<00:07:34.800> out<00:07:34.913> and<00:07:34.994> said,<00:07:35.219> this<00:07:35.396> is<00:07:35.541> kind<00:07:35.848> of—<00:07:35.880> I'm<00:07:35.960> ready<00:07:36.105> to<00:07:36.733> be<00:07:36.830> an<00:07:36.895> entrepreneur<00:07:37.378> again.

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I'm<00:07:37.780> not<00:07:37.942> ready<00:07:38.119> to<00:07:38.199> hang<00:07:38.376> up<00:07:38.505> my<00:07:38.683> boots<00:07:38.989> and<00:07:39.327> be<00:07:39.488> a<00:07:39.504> career<00:07:39.810> venture<00:07:40.020> capitalist.

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And<00:07:41.571> ultimately<00:07:42.234> spun<00:07:42.541> the<00:07:42.622> business<00:07:43.026> out<00:07:43.139> about<00:07:43.365> 4<00:07:43.591> years<00:07:43.769> ago<00:07:44.012> and<00:07:44.092> started<00:07:44.400> the<00:07:44.480> company.

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That's<00:07:45.547> incredible.

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And<00:07:46.824> I<00:07:47.147> assume<00:07:47.567> you've<00:07:47.713> raised<00:07:47.971> like<00:07:48.133> an<00:07:48.198> angel<00:07:48.456> round,<00:07:49.022> a<00:07:49.087> seed<00:07:49.410> round,<00:07:49.491> and<00:07:49.572> I'm<00:07:49.620> talking<00:07:49.717> to<00:07:49.765> you<00:07:49.798> on<00:07:49.830> a<00:07:49.846> day<00:07:51.752> where<00:07:52.057> you<00:07:52.233> publicly<00:07:52.699> announced,<00:07:53.501> uh,<00:07:53.918> your<00:07:54.063> Series<00:07:54.480> B<00:07:54.705> round.

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Give<00:07:55.138> us<00:07:55.299> a<00:07:55.347> sense<00:07:55.604> for<00:07:55.748> how<00:07:56.005> you've<00:07:56.165> thought<00:07:56.406> about<00:07:57.289> raising<00:07:57.690> money<00:07:58.316> and<00:07:58.573> the<00:07:58.653> importance<00:07:59.151> of<00:07:59.215> today's<00:07:59.600> announcement.

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Obviously,<00:08:00.579> when<00:08:00.740> people<00:08:01.285> watch<00:08:01.526> this,<00:08:01.783> it<00:08:01.863> won't<00:08:02.024> be<00:08:02.184> today,<00:08:02.585> but<00:08:03.227> we're<00:08:03.372> literally<00:08:03.629> talking<00:08:03.853> on<00:08:03.934> the<00:08:03.966> day<00:08:04.110> when<00:08:04.255> you<00:08:04.367> announced,<00:08:04.977> uh,<00:08:05.234> that<00:08:05.378> you've<00:08:05.571> raised<00:08:05.811> a<00:08:05.892> Series<00:08:06.341> B.

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Give<00:08:07.176> us<00:08:07.336> a<00:08:07.384> sense<00:08:07.625> for<00:08:07.689> how<00:08:07.786> you<00:08:07.882> thought<00:08:08.123> about<00:08:08.363> that.

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Definitely.

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So<00:08:09.567> today<00:08:09.952> we<00:08:10.049> announced<00:08:10.594> a,<00:08:10.931> a<00:08:10.947> $38<00:08:11.477> million<00:08:11.975> Series<00:08:12.456> B<00:08:12.777> led<00:08:12.938> by<00:08:13.178> QED<00:08:13.564> Investors,<00:08:14.767> uh,<00:08:14.848> which<00:08:15.024> is<00:08:15.104> a<00:08:15.169> very<00:08:15.409> prestigious,<00:08:16.212> uh,<00:08:16.388> fintech<00:08:16.806> investor<00:08:17.191> started<00:08:17.592> by<00:08:18.314> one<00:08:18.411> of<00:08:18.459> the<00:08:18.555> co-founders<00:08:19.117> of<00:08:19.197> Capital<00:08:19.582> One,<00:08:19.759> Nigel<00:08:20.080> Morris.

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They've<00:08:21.267> actually<00:08:21.667> been<00:08:21.844> partners<00:08:22.164> with<00:08:22.389> us<00:08:22.485> since<00:08:22.709> we<00:08:22.789> started<00:08:23.126> the<00:08:23.206> company<00:08:24.248> 4<00:08:24.472> years<00:08:24.729> ago.

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We've<00:08:26.187> raised<00:08:26.331> $78<00:08:26.812> million<00:08:27.389> today.

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What<00:08:27.918> we're<00:08:28.078> building<00:08:28.351> at<00:08:28.479> April<00:08:28.736> is<00:08:28.960> really<00:08:29.136> what<00:08:29.297> we<00:08:29.377> consider<00:08:29.858> an<00:08:30.018> infrastructure<00:08:30.595> company.

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It<00:08:31.060> actually<00:08:31.380> looks<00:08:31.605> a<00:08:31.621> lot<00:08:31.845> more<00:08:32.021> like<00:08:32.246> a<00:08:32.983> biopharmaceutical<00:08:33.881> company,<00:08:34.345> if<00:08:34.490> you<00:08:34.586> will.

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There's<00:08:34.906> this<00:08:35.131> really<00:08:35.307> big<00:08:35.628> build<00:08:36.573> project<00:08:36.990> that<00:08:37.134> happens<00:08:37.535> at<00:08:37.567> the<00:08:37.695> beginning.

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And<00:08:38.657> then<00:08:39.218> over<00:08:39.394> time,<00:08:40.516> that<00:08:40.740> infrastructure,<00:08:41.462> as<00:08:41.638> we<00:08:41.798> turn<00:08:42.023> it<00:08:42.103> on<00:08:42.295> and<00:08:42.375> hook<00:08:42.536> it<00:08:42.664> up<00:08:42.760> to<00:08:42.840> the<00:08:42.904> distribution<00:08:44.203> channels,<00:08:44.683> which<00:08:44.908> are<00:08:44.988> the<00:08:45.036> largest<00:08:46.030> fintech<00:08:46.591> apps,<00:08:47.071> wealth<00:08:47.312> management<00:08:47.729> platforms,<00:08:48.354> payroll<00:08:48.674> companies,<00:08:49.732> can<00:08:49.892> go<00:08:50.117> really,<00:08:50.293> really<00:08:50.518> quick.

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And<00:08:50.951> so<00:08:51.576> we<00:08:51.656> were<00:08:51.800> actually<00:08:52.137> basically,<00:08:53.019> we<00:08:53.243> raised<00:08:53.724> almost<00:08:54.461> $40<00:08:54.702> million<00:08:55.423> in<00:08:55.487> the<00:08:55.567> first<00:08:55.808> year<00:08:55.968> of<00:08:56.048> starting<00:08:56.369> the<00:08:56.465> business,<00:08:57.171> and<00:08:57.251> we<00:08:57.331> were<00:08:57.491> pre-revenue<00:08:58.068> for<00:08:58.229> almost<00:08:58.549> 3<00:08:58.774> years.

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So<00:08:59.976> maybe<00:09:00.216> not<00:09:00.393> the<00:09:00.537> traditional<00:09:01.034> path<00:09:01.499> that<00:09:01.739> a<00:09:01.820> lot<00:09:01.996> of<00:09:02.076> venture<00:09:02.397> businesses<00:09:03.278> take,<00:09:03.599> and<00:09:03.663> you<00:09:03.743> have<00:09:03.920> to<00:09:04.000> manage<00:09:04.385> your<00:09:04.545> cash<00:09:04.881> burn<00:09:05.042> carefully<00:09:05.523> and<00:09:05.603> your<00:09:05.763> milestones<00:09:06.244> carefully<00:09:06.709> because<00:09:06.949> you're<00:09:07.046> not<00:09:07.607> necessarily<00:09:08.168> hitting<00:09:08.408> those<00:09:08.633> traditional<00:09:09.595> revenue<00:09:09.915> markers<00:09:10.412> that<00:09:10.653> other<00:09:10.877> companies<00:09:11.438> would<00:09:12.079> at<00:09:13.202> capital<00:09:13.683> raises<00:09:14.035> of<00:09:14.099> that<00:09:14.276> size.

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But<00:09:15.783> what<00:09:15.943> we've<00:09:16.087> been<00:09:16.183> able<00:09:16.408> to<00:09:16.504> do<00:09:16.680> since<00:09:17.225> sort<00:09:17.450> of<00:09:17.530> turning<00:09:17.851> on<00:09:17.947> the<00:09:18.027> monetization<00:09:18.668> channels<00:09:19.085> in<00:09:19.149> the<00:09:19.245> last<00:09:19.550> 18<00:09:19.790> months,<00:09:20.576> is<00:09:20.833> basically<00:09:21.315> double<00:09:21.556> the<00:09:21.636> business<00:09:22.118> every<00:09:22.343> quarter.

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And<00:09:23.307> so<00:09:23.564> our<00:09:23.725> business<00:09:24.512> has<00:09:24.753> almost<00:09:24.994> 10x'd<00:09:25.958> over<00:09:26.295> the<00:09:26.375> last<00:09:26.697> year.

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We've<00:09:27.837> signed<00:09:28.142> deals<00:09:28.528> with<00:09:29.122> a<00:09:29.186> trillion-dollar<00:09:29.813> asset<00:09:30.070> manager,<00:09:30.552> a<00:09:30.632> top<00:09:30.937> US<00:09:31.194> exchange,<00:09:32.319> a<00:09:32.383> Fortune<00:09:32.721> 5<00:09:33.106> company.

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So<00:09:34.166> we're<00:09:34.873> rapidly<00:09:35.291> growing<00:09:35.692> and<00:09:35.773> expanding,<00:09:36.335> and<00:09:36.415> I<00:09:36.496> think<00:09:36.737> proving<00:09:37.202> that<00:09:37.861> there<00:09:37.957> was<00:09:38.102> this<00:09:38.343> unmet<00:09:38.745> need<00:09:39.130> for<00:09:39.371> a<00:09:39.467> tax<00:09:39.789> infrastructure<00:09:40.496> that<00:09:40.656> could<00:09:40.833> be<00:09:40.977> a<00:09:41.074> real<00:09:41.218> alternative<00:09:42.744> for<00:09:42.921> businesses<00:09:43.387> that<00:09:43.564> wanted<00:09:43.805> to<00:09:43.949> get<00:09:44.110> into<00:09:44.303> the<00:09:44.383> tax<00:09:44.769> game.

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Today,<00:09:45.652> if<00:09:45.797> you<00:09:45.893> want<00:09:46.022> to<00:09:46.054> do<00:09:46.198> your<00:09:46.295> taxes,<00:09:46.873> you<00:09:47.001> have<00:09:47.162> to<00:09:47.258> go<00:09:47.419> to<00:09:48.030> a<00:09:48.270> retail<00:09:48.590> location<00:09:49.190> like<00:09:49.450> H&R<00:09:49.790> Block,<00:09:50.210> you<00:09:50.211> have<00:09:50.390> to<00:09:50.450> go<00:09:50.550> to<00:09:50.730> Intuit<00:09:50.930> Online,<00:09:52.330> TurboTax,<00:09:52.970> or<00:09:53.070> you<00:09:53.170> have<00:09:53.310> to<00:09:53.550> call<00:09:53.590> an<00:09:53.830> accountant.

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And<00:09:54.270> I<00:09:54.370> think<00:09:54.490> our<00:09:54.730> take<00:09:54.970> is<00:09:55.530> there's<00:09:55.870> another<00:09:56.130> way,<00:09:56.430> and<00:09:56.570> that<00:09:56.710> other<00:09:56.890> way<00:09:57.130> should<00:09:57.290> be<00:09:57.870> you<00:09:58.030> should<00:09:58.190> be<00:09:58.290> able<00:09:58.370> to<00:09:58.530> engage<00:09:58.810> with<00:09:58.970> your<00:09:59.190> taxes<00:09:59.550> where<00:09:59.810> you<00:10:00.110> get<00:10:00.390> paid,<00:10:01.010> where<00:10:01.210> you<00:10:01.370> store<00:10:01.630> your<00:10:01.830> money,<00:10:02.110> where<00:10:02.270> you<00:10:02.450> invest<00:10:02.770> for<00:10:02.970> your<00:10:03.090> wealth<00:10:03.290> and<00:10:03.410> your<00:10:03.530> retirement.

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And<00:10:04.390> are<00:10:04.510> you<00:10:04.570> thinking<00:10:04.750> like<00:10:05.010> this<00:10:05.110> is<00:10:05.350> also<00:10:05.650> like<00:10:05.910> businesses<00:10:06.270> will<00:10:06.510> be<00:10:06.690> able<00:10:06.770> to<00:10:06.950> use<00:10:07.130> this<00:10:07.450> and<00:10:07.650> companies<00:10:08.110> and<00:10:08.330> corporations<00:10:08.910> and<00:10:09.070> things<00:10:09.250> like<00:10:09.450> that?

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Because<00:10:09.710> that's,<00:10:10.010> that's<00:10:10.170> pretty<00:10:10.330> complicated.

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How<00:10:11.470> are<00:10:11.630> you<00:10:11.750> thinking<00:10:11.910> about,<00:10:12.290> because<00:10:12.291> obviously<00:10:12.710> like<00:10:13.070> going<00:10:13.530> right<00:10:13.870> after<00:10:14.070> the<00:10:14.250> H&R<00:10:14.650> Block<00:10:15.070> and<00:10:15.890> TurboTax<00:10:16.750> and<00:10:17.070> things<00:10:17.250> like<00:10:17.470> that,<00:10:17.550> that<00:10:17.670> makes<00:10:17.810> a<00:10:18.010> lot<00:10:18.030> of<00:10:18.050> sense.

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Like<00:10:18.090> that's<00:10:18.110> a<00:10:18.130> huge<00:10:18.150> opportunity.

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But<00:10:20.603> how<00:10:20.699> are<00:10:20.843> you<00:10:20.987> thinking<00:10:21.148> about<00:10:21.308> like<00:10:21.468> the<00:10:21.565> business<00:10:22.350> aspect<00:10:22.703> of<00:10:22.783> it?

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Yeah,<00:10:23.713> I<00:10:23.745> mean,<00:10:23.889> the<00:10:23.969> tax<00:10:24.370> market<00:10:24.755> is<00:10:25.011> a<00:10:25.091> $20<00:10:25.412> billion<00:10:26.037> market.

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About<00:10:26.678> half<00:10:26.935> of<00:10:26.967> that<00:10:27.159> is<00:10:27.191> software,<00:10:27.736> about<00:10:27.961> half<00:10:28.217> of<00:10:28.249> that<00:10:28.458> is<00:10:28.618> preparation.

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We,<00:10:29.804> you<00:10:29.900> can't<00:10:30.205> boil<00:10:30.445> the<00:10:30.606> ocean,<00:10:30.862> right?

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We<00:10:31.167> already<00:10:31.407> have<00:10:31.744> a,<00:10:31.968> a<00:10:32.048> pretty<00:10:32.289> large<00:10:32.529> surface<00:10:32.946> area<00:10:33.186> that<00:10:33.411> we're<00:10:33.507> going<00:10:33.892> after.

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We<00:10:35.014> have<00:10:35.254> a<00:10:35.831> fully<00:10:36.072> regulated<00:10:36.553> tax<00:10:36.857> engine.

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We<00:10:37.354> have<00:10:37.739> multiple<00:10:38.060> applications,<00:10:38.797> we<00:10:38.893> have<00:10:39.102> APIs,<00:10:40.240> we're<00:10:40.384> selling<00:10:40.801> B2B2C.

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So<00:10:42.147> we're<00:10:42.243> selling<00:10:42.644> basically<00:10:43.045> through<00:10:43.285> these<00:10:43.510> financial<00:10:44.327> platforms,<00:10:44.969> but<00:10:45.209> with<00:10:45.369> the<00:10:45.754> application<00:10:46.973> that<00:10:47.134> touches<00:10:47.471> the<00:10:47.615> end<00:10:47.776> customer.

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And<00:10:48.980> so<00:10:49.156> that<00:10:49.542> is<00:10:49.863> a<00:10:50.023> significant<00:10:50.762> investment<00:10:51.372> and<00:10:51.468> a<00:10:51.484> significant<00:10:53.218> also<00:10:54.984> surface<00:10:55.466> area<00:10:55.884> to<00:10:56.510> optimize<00:10:57.007> and<00:10:57.088> maintain.

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And<00:10:57.730> so<00:10:58.452> I<00:10:58.533> think<00:10:58.677> for<00:10:58.838> us,<00:10:59.576> we<00:11:00.379> would<00:11:00.604> ultimately<00:11:01.101> like<00:11:01.406> to<00:11:01.840> look<00:11:02.225> at<00:11:02.322> many<00:11:02.546> parts<00:11:02.803> of<00:11:02.867> that<00:11:03.028> market,<00:11:03.349> but<00:11:03.494> today<00:11:03.815> really<00:11:04.473> are<00:11:04.553> focused<00:11:05.260> on<00:11:07.122> personal<00:11:07.668> and<00:11:07.748> households<00:11:08.326> and<00:11:08.406> small<00:11:08.647> businesses<00:11:09.771> through<00:11:10.092> these<00:11:10.333> different<00:11:10.654> financial<00:11:11.537> channels.

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And<00:11:13.046> Who<00:11:13.159> knows<00:11:13.447> what<00:11:13.544> the<00:11:13.624> future<00:11:14.266> has<00:11:14.507> in<00:11:14.587> store,<00:11:14.988> but<00:11:15.229> yes,<00:11:15.405> certainly<00:11:15.855> there's<00:11:17.251> a<00:11:17.315> means<00:11:17.636> in<00:11:17.780> which<00:11:17.973> at<00:11:18.053> least<00:11:18.342> parts<00:11:18.663> of<00:11:18.743> what<00:11:18.904> we've<00:11:19.096> built<00:11:20.589> could<00:11:20.685> be<00:11:20.830> useful<00:11:21.247> to<00:11:21.407> larger<00:11:21.712> companies<00:11:22.226> and<00:11:22.370> corporations<00:11:22.932> as<00:11:23.012> well.

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How<00:11:23.815> do<00:11:23.879> you<00:11:24.055> think<00:11:24.312> about<00:11:24.761> AI<00:11:25.339> and<00:11:25.435> its<00:11:25.660> future?

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And<00:11:26.527> obviously,<00:11:26.767> you're<00:11:26.944> integrating<00:11:27.361> it<00:11:27.409> into<00:11:27.570> your<00:11:27.730> product<00:11:28.067> extensively,<00:11:28.790> but<00:11:29.431> give<00:11:29.608> us<00:11:29.768> a<00:11:29.817> sense<00:11:30.298> for,<00:11:30.635> I<00:11:30.651> mean,<00:11:30.860> obviously,<00:11:31.117> it's<00:11:31.277> the<00:11:31.421> talk<00:11:31.694> of<00:11:31.742> the<00:11:31.903> world,<00:11:32.545> talk<00:11:32.802> of<00:11:33.026> the<00:11:33.123> tech<00:11:33.267> community<00:11:33.684> for<00:11:33.845> sure,<00:11:34.246> business<00:11:34.631> world.

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What's<00:11:36.156> your<00:11:36.252> take<00:11:36.509> on<00:11:36.653> it?

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Where<00:11:37.295> do<00:11:37.760> you<00:11:37.841> see<00:11:38.017> this<00:11:38.162> thing<00:11:38.322> going<00:11:38.563> in<00:11:38.659> 5<00:11:38.900> years?

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Yeah,<00:11:39.943> look,<00:11:40.424> Clint,<00:11:40.681> I'll<00:11:41.066> be<00:11:41.290> honest,<00:11:41.707> I'm<00:11:42.590> a<00:11:42.750> little<00:11:42.991> bit<00:11:43.151> controversial<00:11:43.857> about<00:11:44.178> it,<00:11:44.419> and<00:11:44.820> I<00:11:44.916> think<00:11:45.076> it's<00:11:45.237> because<00:11:45.622> there's<00:11:45.862> this<00:11:46.039> take.

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I've<00:11:46.905> been<00:11:47.081> through,<00:11:47.964> you<00:11:48.028> know,<00:11:48.108> I<00:11:48.124> don't<00:11:48.750> have<00:11:48.910> as<00:11:49.087> many<00:11:49.247> gray<00:11:49.488> hairs.

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I<00:11:49.809> have<00:11:49.905> a<00:11:49.953> few<00:11:50.113> gray<00:11:50.290> hairs.

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You<00:11:50.611> might<00:11:50.723> not<00:11:50.835> be<00:11:50.932> able<00:11:51.076> to<00:11:51.108> see<00:11:51.268> them<00:11:51.413> on<00:11:51.493> the<00:11:51.573> screen,<00:11:51.894> but,<00:11:52.536> you<00:11:52.632> know,<00:11:53.402> I<00:11:53.482> started<00:11:53.803> my<00:11:53.980> career<00:11:54.300> right<00:11:54.541> when<00:11:54.701> cloud<00:11:55.086> and<00:11:55.135> mobile<00:11:55.487> were<00:11:55.584> taking<00:11:55.969> off,<00:11:56.306> and<00:11:56.386> I<00:11:56.530> think<00:11:56.691> there<00:11:56.787> were<00:11:56.931> two<00:11:57.188> really<00:11:58.070> interesting<00:11:58.471> parallels<00:11:58.953> that<00:11:59.097> I<00:11:59.193> saw<00:11:59.674> is,<00:11:59.835> first<00:12:00.059> of<00:12:00.140> all,<00:12:00.862> people<00:12:01.054> were<00:12:01.134> starting<00:12:01.519> businesses<00:12:02.065> that<00:12:02.225> were<00:12:02.321> mobile<00:12:02.722> businesses.

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It<00:12:03.926> turned<00:12:04.166> out<00:12:04.311> that<00:12:04.471> wasn't<00:12:04.728> a<00:12:04.808> thing.

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If<00:12:05.273> you<00:12:05.353> have<00:12:05.530> an<00:12:05.754> app,<00:12:06.812> that<00:12:06.973> people<00:12:07.277> were<00:12:07.437> using<00:12:07.998> in<00:12:08.175> the<00:12:08.800> web,<00:12:10.001> they<00:12:10.098> may<00:12:10.402> also<00:12:10.658> want<00:12:10.867> to<00:12:11.123> use<00:12:11.315> it<00:12:11.524> on<00:12:11.556> a<00:12:11.620> mobile<00:12:11.860> device,<00:12:12.261> but<00:12:12.373> they<00:12:12.485> may<00:12:13.062> not.

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Uber<00:12:14.104> turned<00:12:14.328> out<00:12:14.504> to<00:12:14.601> be<00:12:14.729> totally<00:12:15.065> powered,<00:12:16.107> DoorDash,<00:12:16.508> you<00:12:16.572> had<00:12:16.684> these<00:12:16.828> companies<00:12:17.229> that<00:12:17.309> were<00:12:17.453> really<00:12:17.774> led<00:12:18.671> by<00:12:18.991> mobile<00:12:19.312> compute,<00:12:20.193> but<00:12:20.338> many<00:12:20.514> things<00:12:20.898> were<00:12:20.995> not.

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The<00:12:21.780> idea<00:12:23.783> of<00:12:24.039> most<00:12:24.360> people<00:12:24.680> needing<00:12:26.267> just<00:12:26.507> a<00:12:26.587> mobile<00:12:26.908> bank,<00:12:27.309> yes,<00:12:27.565> now<00:12:28.126> some<00:12:28.366> people<00:12:28.671> prefer<00:12:28.943> to<00:12:29.087> bank<00:12:29.488> only<00:12:30.353> on<00:12:30.610> a<00:12:30.674> mobile<00:12:30.882> device,<00:12:31.315> but<00:12:31.780> I<00:12:31.980> think<00:12:32.200> that<00:12:32.440> transition<00:12:32.860> took<00:12:33.100> a<00:12:33.180> lot<00:12:33.320> longer<00:12:33.640> than<00:12:33.960> people<00:12:34.340> thought<00:12:34.740> it<00:12:34.880> would.

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And<00:12:35.441> just<00:12:35.580> saying,<00:12:35.980> "Oh,<00:12:36.060> I'm<00:12:36.200> a<00:12:36.260> mobile<00:12:36.500> bank,"<00:12:36.920> turned<00:12:37.040> out<00:12:37.320> not<00:12:37.580> to<00:12:37.660> be<00:12:37.880> differentiated<00:12:38.340> enough<00:12:38.700> for<00:12:39.120> most<00:12:39.440> companies.

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Obviously,<00:12:40.240> there's<00:12:40.340> a<00:12:40.460> few<00:12:40.660> that<00:12:41.100> turned<00:12:41.440> out<00:12:41.740> to<00:12:41.900> be<00:12:41.901> able<00:12:42.180> to<00:12:42.580> push<00:12:43.480> through<00:12:43.720> there.

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And<00:12:44.100> then<00:12:44.260> I<00:12:44.261> think<00:12:44.400> when<00:12:44.520> you<00:12:44.660> look<00:12:44.880> at<00:12:45.160> cloud,<00:12:46.560> cloud<00:12:46.980> was<00:12:47.160> going<00:12:47.320> to<00:12:47.760> be<00:12:48.620> the<00:12:49.460> disruptor<00:12:50.000> to<00:12:50.160> everything.

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Everyone<00:12:50.820> was<00:12:51.040> becoming<00:12:51.320> a<00:12:51.520> cloud<00:12:51.720> company.

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It's<00:12:52.241> like,<00:12:52.340> "I'm<00:12:52.440> a<00:12:52.520> cloud<00:12:52.800> CRM."<00:12:54.220> It's<00:12:54.480> like<00:12:54.620> saying<00:12:54.700> when<00:12:54.800> people<00:12:54.960> say,<00:12:55.140> "I'm<00:12:55.300> an<00:12:55.440> AI<00:12:55.680> CRM,"<00:12:56.280> or,<00:12:56.400> "I'm<00:12:56.440> an<00:12:56.560> AI,"<00:12:56.800> I<00:12:56.960> just<00:12:57.200> think<00:12:57.360> that<00:12:57.560> they<00:12:57.660> don't<00:12:58.160> understand<00:12:58.360> the<00:12:58.500> problem<00:12:58.840> they're<00:12:59.020> solving.

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And<00:13:00.067> so<00:13:00.227> the<00:13:00.307> way<00:13:00.404> that<00:13:00.564> we<00:13:00.725> look<00:13:00.901> at<00:13:01.030> AI<00:13:01.302> is<00:13:01.447> it's<00:13:01.591> an<00:13:01.623> enabler.

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We<00:13:02.955> use<00:13:03.196> AI<00:13:03.517> in<00:13:03.597> many<00:13:03.854> components<00:13:04.335> of<00:13:04.415> the<00:13:04.496> business.

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We<00:13:04.977> use<00:13:05.153> it<00:13:05.282> for<00:13:05.378> code<00:13:05.603> automation.

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We<00:13:06.967> answer<00:13:07.223> many<00:13:07.464> of<00:13:07.528> our<00:13:07.625> customer<00:13:08.122> inquiries.

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We<00:13:09.374> use<00:13:09.486> it<00:13:09.550> for<00:13:09.711> document<00:13:10.176> analysis.

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The<00:13:11.299> user<00:13:11.556> doesn't<00:13:11.781> necessarily<00:13:12.294> know<00:13:12.439> it's<00:13:12.599> there.

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Our<00:13:13.080> customer<00:13:13.482> doesn't<00:13:13.706> necessarily<00:13:14.188> know<00:13:14.284> it's<00:13:14.444> there,<00:13:14.605> but<00:13:14.765> we<00:13:14.910> go<00:13:15.086> faster.

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We<00:13:16.129> deliver<00:13:16.691> more<00:13:16.851> services<00:13:17.477> at<00:13:17.557> a<00:13:17.638> lower<00:13:17.894> cost.

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And<00:13:18.280> I<00:13:18.376> think<00:13:18.536> that's<00:13:18.777> what<00:13:18.873> our<00:13:19.162> customers<00:13:19.579> really<00:13:19.804> care<00:13:19.980> about.

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You<00:13:20.799> know,<00:13:20.943> in<00:13:21.007> the<00:13:21.088> talk,<00:13:21.409> I<00:13:21.505> get<00:13:21.665> asked<00:13:21.906> now,<00:13:22.002> like,<00:13:22.211> what's<00:13:22.387> my<00:13:22.692> AI<00:13:22.933> roadmap?

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And<00:13:24.072> I<00:13:24.153> don't<00:13:24.297> mean<00:13:24.457> it<00:13:24.554> in<00:13:24.650> a<00:13:24.714> disingenuous<00:13:25.436> way,<00:13:25.597> but<00:13:25.741> to<00:13:25.837> me,<00:13:25.998> like,<00:13:26.158> that's<00:13:26.479> the<00:13:26.624> wrong<00:13:27.506> question.

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You<00:13:27.987> should<00:13:28.099> be<00:13:28.227> asking,<00:13:28.563> how<00:13:28.820> is<00:13:28.964> your<00:13:29.124> roadmap<00:13:29.541> accelerated<00:13:30.310> by<00:13:30.566> AI?

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What<00:13:31.848> things<00:13:32.152> can<00:13:32.312> you<00:13:32.473> do<00:13:32.713> that<00:13:32.809> you<00:13:32.969> couldn't<00:13:33.210> do<00:13:33.370> before<00:13:33.931> with<00:13:34.155> AI,<00:13:35.277> with<00:13:35.437> maybe<00:13:35.693> the<00:13:36.238> labor<00:13:36.494> force<00:13:36.799> that<00:13:36.895> you<00:13:37.039> have?

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Those<00:13:37.536> are<00:13:37.616> the<00:13:37.680> questions<00:13:38.096> people<00:13:38.881> need<00:13:38.978> to<00:13:39.074> be<00:13:39.218> asking.

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Maybe<00:13:39.843> it's<00:13:39.955> a<00:13:40.019> shorthand,<00:13:40.500> but<00:13:40.644> to<00:13:40.740> me<00:13:40.900> it<00:13:40.980> shows<00:13:41.301> a<00:13:41.365> certain<00:13:41.701> amount<00:13:42.182> of<00:13:42.967> maybe<00:13:43.239> naivete<00:13:44.185> and<00:13:44.489> also<00:13:44.729> exuberance<00:13:45.290> from<00:13:45.386> the<00:13:45.547> overall<00:13:45.931> market.

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I<00:13:46.492> think<00:13:46.652> this<00:13:46.812> whole<00:13:47.053> idea<00:13:47.950> that<00:13:48.110> everything<00:13:48.447> is<00:13:48.591> going<00:13:48.703> to<00:13:48.751> be<00:13:49.648> "agentic"<00:13:50.818> is<00:13:51.315> a<00:13:51.395> little<00:13:51.571> bit<00:13:51.795> overblown.

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I<00:13:53.061> don't<00:13:53.558> know<00:13:53.734> that<00:13:53.942> I'm<00:13:54.038> just<00:13:54.198> going<00:13:54.311> to<00:13:54.423> be<00:13:54.583> giving<00:13:54.743> instructions<00:13:55.400> to<00:13:55.544> my<00:13:55.721> LLM<00:13:57.003> and<00:13:57.100> they're<00:13:57.228> going<00:13:57.308> to<00:13:57.340> be<00:13:57.485> booking<00:13:57.741> my<00:13:57.902> flights.

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I'm<00:13:58.512> also<00:13:58.688> not<00:13:58.849> convinced<00:13:59.170> that<00:13:59.266> that<00:13:59.410> really<00:13:59.587> saves<00:13:59.972> me<00:14:00.068> that<00:14:00.213> much<00:14:00.437> time.

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And<00:14:01.673> so<00:14:01.962> I<00:14:02.058> think<00:14:02.202> we<00:14:02.299> need<00:14:02.443> to<00:14:02.620> keep<00:14:03.021> things<00:14:03.262> in<00:14:03.342> proportion<00:14:03.839> and<00:14:03.968> realize<00:14:04.305> that<00:14:04.545> the<00:14:04.642> adoption<00:14:05.091> cycles<00:14:05.508> on<00:14:05.588> the<00:14:05.733> one<00:14:05.893> hand<00:14:06.696> have<00:14:06.808> been<00:14:07.016> astronomical<00:14:07.755> when<00:14:07.899> you<00:14:07.995> look<00:14:08.156> at<00:14:08.300> revenue<00:14:09.183> for<00:14:09.263> some<00:14:09.456> of<00:14:09.520> these<00:14:09.664> companies<00:14:10.226> and<00:14:10.402> what<00:14:11.044> ChatGPT<00:14:11.750> has<00:14:11.847> done<00:14:12.087> to<00:14:12.232> change<00:14:13.371> the<00:14:13.451> knowledge<00:14:13.772> graph.

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Absolutely.

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But<00:14:14.895> I<00:14:14.976> think<00:14:15.200> when<00:14:15.297> it<00:14:15.361> comes<00:14:15.602> to<00:14:15.714> business<00:14:16.019> process<00:14:16.645> and<00:14:17.222> some<00:14:17.383> other<00:14:17.623> more<00:14:17.784> refined<00:14:18.281> parts<00:14:19.228> of<00:14:19.308> the<00:14:19.389> stack,<00:14:19.806> I<00:14:19.870> think<00:14:20.047> it's<00:14:20.191> going<00:14:20.287> to<00:14:20.351> be<00:14:20.528> a<00:14:20.592> little<00:14:20.833> bit<00:14:21.555> slower<00:14:22.197> than<00:14:22.341> people<00:14:22.598> think,<00:14:23.063> and<00:14:23.240> it's<00:14:23.400> going<00:14:23.513> to<00:14:23.577> surprise<00:14:24.267> us<00:14:24.668> in<00:14:25.005> ways<00:14:25.310> that<00:14:25.422> it<00:14:25.502> is<00:14:25.647> adopted<00:14:26.064> and<00:14:26.209> that<00:14:26.513> it's<00:14:26.706> not<00:14:26.834> adopted.

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Yeah,<00:14:27.813> that<00:14:27.989> makes<00:14:28.229> a<00:14:28.277> lot<00:14:28.390> of<00:14:28.438> sense.

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Give<00:14:29.287> me<00:14:29.400> a<00:14:29.416> sense<00:14:29.720> for<00:14:29.816> what<00:14:29.993> a<00:14:30.057> typical<00:14:30.458> day<00:14:30.618> looks<00:14:30.842> like<00:14:31.083> for<00:14:31.179> you<00:14:31.339> as<00:14:31.484> you're<00:14:31.564> scaling<00:14:31.980> this<00:14:32.205> thing.

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No,<00:14:33.103> there's<00:14:33.343> not.

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And<00:14:33.680> I<00:14:33.760> think,<00:14:34.128> you<00:14:34.161> know,<00:14:34.305> it's,<00:14:34.529> I<00:14:34.625> know<00:14:34.770> we're<00:14:35.571> on<00:14:35.603> a<00:14:35.667> CEO<00:14:36.004> podcast<00:14:36.549> here,<00:14:36.709> but<00:14:36.854> I<00:14:36.950> think<00:14:37.495> as<00:14:37.591> a<00:14:37.655> CEO<00:14:38.072> of<00:14:38.136> a<00:14:38.152> venture-backed<00:14:38.729> company,<00:14:39.739> my<00:14:40.236> principal<00:14:40.701> job<00:14:40.973> is<00:14:41.118> really<00:14:41.278> the<00:14:41.374> founder.

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I'm<00:14:41.839> the<00:14:41.919> founder<00:14:42.240> of<00:14:42.320> the<00:14:42.400> business<00:14:42.785> first<00:14:43.121> and<00:14:43.202> I'm<00:14:43.282> the<00:14:43.362> CEO<00:14:43.763> second.

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And<00:14:44.243> maybe<00:14:44.484> at<00:14:44.564> some<00:14:44.805> point<00:14:45.686> that<00:14:45.847> changes,<00:14:46.408> but<00:14:46.712> I<00:14:47.930> will<00:14:48.155> always<00:14:48.395> free<00:14:48.636> up<00:14:48.716> my<00:14:48.812> schedule<00:14:49.293> and<00:14:49.437> keep<00:14:49.630> it<00:14:49.694> flexible<00:14:50.640> to<00:14:50.736> be<00:14:50.880> able<00:14:50.992> to<00:14:51.136> work<00:14:51.441> on<00:14:51.473> the<00:14:51.553> most<00:14:51.858> urgent<00:14:52.098> problems.

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I<00:14:52.739> wake<00:14:52.980> up<00:14:53.076> in<00:14:53.156> the<00:14:53.284> morning,<00:14:54.086> I<00:14:54.407> have<00:14:54.584> a<00:14:54.664> routine,<00:14:55.145> I<00:14:55.290> work<00:14:55.530> out,<00:14:55.948> I<00:14:56.172> get<00:14:56.349> my<00:14:56.493> diet<00:14:56.814> right,<00:14:57.167> I<00:14:57.231> take<00:14:57.392> care<00:14:57.632> of<00:14:57.713> my<00:14:57.873> kids,<00:14:58.274> I<00:14:58.338> see<00:14:58.451> my<00:14:58.595> family,<00:14:59.542> and<00:14:59.622> then<00:14:59.782> I<00:15:00.440> go<00:15:00.665> all<00:15:00.906> in<00:15:01.146> and<00:15:01.243> go<00:15:01.371> as<00:15:01.483> hard<00:15:01.660> as<00:15:01.788> I<00:15:01.884> can.

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And<00:15:02.510> that's<00:15:02.847> whatever's<00:15:03.329> going<00:15:03.569> to<00:15:03.730> be<00:15:04.532> the<00:15:04.692> thing<00:15:04.853> that<00:15:05.094> unblocks<00:15:05.575> and<00:15:05.735> moves<00:15:05.976> my<00:15:06.137> business<00:15:06.457> forward<00:15:06.778> that<00:15:07.003> day.

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And<00:15:07.324> so<00:15:07.484> if<00:15:07.581> I<00:15:07.725> need<00:15:07.821> to<00:15:07.982> rearrange<00:15:08.383> my<00:15:08.479> schedule<00:15:09.442> or<00:15:09.506> rearrange<00:15:09.971> travel,<00:15:10.854> I<00:15:10.934> will<00:15:11.031> definitely<00:15:11.512> do<00:15:11.672> that.

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Obviously,<00:15:12.876> being<00:15:13.036> a<00:15:13.116> B2B<00:15:13.518> company,<00:15:13.999> you<00:15:14.159> can't<00:15:14.384> be<00:15:14.480> quite<00:15:14.817> as<00:15:14.962> flexible<00:15:16.069> maybe<00:15:16.406> as<00:15:16.566> being<00:15:16.791> a<00:15:16.887> consumer<00:15:17.272> business.

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I<00:15:18.395> have<00:15:18.492> commitments<00:15:18.957> to<00:15:19.053> clients<00:15:19.535> and<00:15:19.615> prospects<00:15:20.241> that<00:15:20.642> I<00:15:20.802> need<00:15:20.899> to<00:15:21.043> show<00:15:21.284> up.

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So<00:15:22.006> to<00:15:22.038> some<00:15:22.262> extent,<00:15:22.519> my<00:15:22.599> schedule<00:15:23.625> can<00:15:23.866> be<00:15:24.107> a<00:15:24.187> little<00:15:24.427> bit<00:15:24.588> more<00:15:24.748> rigid<00:15:25.470> than<00:15:25.630> I<00:15:25.774> would<00:15:25.871> like,<00:15:26.191> or<00:15:26.256> than<00:15:26.416> some<00:15:26.656> other<00:15:27.394> founders<00:15:27.875> might<00:15:28.020> have<00:15:28.260> it.

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But<00:15:29.238> I<00:15:29.319> try<00:15:29.495> to<00:15:29.623> leave<00:15:29.944> room<00:15:30.618> for<00:15:31.548> time<00:15:31.885> to<00:15:32.606> have<00:15:32.847> creative<00:15:33.184> thinking<00:15:33.729> and<00:15:33.809> problem<00:15:34.146> solve<00:15:34.515> for<00:15:34.691> the<00:15:34.851> items<00:15:35.156> that<00:15:35.236> are<00:15:35.333> most<00:15:35.573> urgent<00:15:36.118> at<00:15:36.199> that<00:15:36.359> moment.

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Yeah,<00:15:37.417> that<00:15:37.963> makes<00:15:38.219> a<00:15:38.283> ton<00:15:38.396> of<00:15:38.460> sense.

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Give<00:15:38.797> me<00:15:38.861> a<00:15:38.941> sense<00:15:39.181> for<00:15:39.246> how<00:15:39.422> you're<00:15:39.550> maintaining<00:15:39.983> culture<00:15:40.464> within<00:15:40.705> the<00:15:40.785> company<00:15:41.346> and<00:15:41.972> as<00:15:42.068> it<00:15:42.212> grows<00:15:42.934> and<00:15:43.191> how<00:15:43.335> you're<00:15:43.511> thinking<00:15:43.816> about<00:15:43.993> culture.

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Obviously,<00:15:44.474> you're<00:15:44.634> at<00:15:44.714> this<00:15:44.875> early<00:15:45.131> stage.

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How<00:15:46.478> are<00:15:46.542> you<00:15:46.719> thinking<00:15:47.024> about<00:15:47.264> culture?

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Definitely.

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We<00:15:48.644> were<00:15:48.965> quite<00:15:49.189> intentional,<00:15:49.687> I<00:15:49.767> think.

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Actually,<00:15:50.489> Daniel<00:15:50.955> and<00:15:51.388> I,<00:15:52.078> my<00:15:52.174> co-founder<00:15:52.640> and<00:15:52.720> I,<00:15:52.897> didn't<00:15:53.202> partner<00:15:54.164> until<00:15:54.501> we<00:15:55.047> traded<00:15:55.545> a<00:15:55.609> manifesto<00:15:56.331> that<00:15:56.427> we<00:15:56.588> would<00:15:56.828> edit<00:15:57.085> for<00:15:57.246> one<00:15:57.390> another<00:15:57.791> and<00:15:57.856> we<00:15:58.016> got<00:15:58.209> it<00:15:58.273> to<00:15:58.433> a<00:15:58.514> point<00:15:58.754> that<00:15:58.915> there<00:15:58.995> were<00:15:59.155> no<00:15:59.316> more<00:15:59.541> red<00:15:59.701> lines.

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And<00:16:00.183> I<00:16:00.279> think<00:16:01.242> we<00:16:01.386> had<00:16:01.482> both<00:16:01.707> seen<00:16:02.060> early<00:16:02.285> in<00:16:02.333> our<00:16:02.526> career<00:16:03.729> really<00:16:03.986> smart,<00:16:04.532> hardworking<00:16:05.093> people<00:16:05.735> let<00:16:05.896> their<00:16:06.072> egos<00:16:06.377> get<00:16:06.538> in<00:16:06.602> the<00:16:06.682> way,<00:16:07.420> shy<00:16:07.822> away<00:16:08.062> from<00:16:08.287> thoughtful<00:16:08.624> disagreement,<00:16:09.892> get<00:16:10.052> distracted<00:16:10.871> by<00:16:11.336> things<00:16:11.593> that<00:16:11.737> don't<00:16:11.994> really<00:16:12.235> matter.

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And<00:16:13.294> so<00:16:13.503> for<00:16:13.663> us,<00:16:13.840> culture,<00:16:14.482> that's<00:16:14.867> all<00:16:14.947> you<00:16:15.043> really<00:16:15.284> have<00:16:15.525> at<00:16:15.605> the<00:16:15.685> end<00:16:15.766> of<00:16:15.798> the<00:16:15.910> day.

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You<00:16:16.151> have<00:16:16.391> your<00:16:16.552> productive<00:16:16.969> capacity,<00:16:17.836> which<00:16:17.996> for<00:16:18.093> most<00:16:18.269> tech<00:16:18.446> companies<00:16:18.895> basically<00:16:19.457> is<00:16:19.537> the<00:16:19.682> people<00:16:19.939> you<00:16:20.083> have<00:16:20.822> and<00:16:20.966> getting<00:16:21.223> them<00:16:21.383> to<00:16:21.544> work<00:16:22.186> together<00:16:23.133> towards<00:16:23.390> a<00:16:23.454> common<00:16:23.791> mission<00:16:24.433> and<00:16:24.610> vision.

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And<00:16:25.140> so<00:16:25.316> for<00:16:25.461> us,<00:16:25.637> it's<00:16:25.958> really<00:16:26.199> everything.

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And<00:16:26.665> I<00:16:26.681> know<00:16:26.841> it's<00:16:27.002> trite,<00:16:27.243> but<00:16:27.387> I<00:16:27.500> think<00:16:27.644> what<00:16:27.788> Ben<00:16:27.949> Horowitz<00:16:28.848> said<00:16:29.474> in<00:16:29.554> his<00:16:29.811> book<00:16:30.036> is<00:16:30.196> right,<00:16:30.453> which<00:16:30.614> is<00:16:30.758> culture<00:16:31.079> is<00:16:31.240> really<00:16:32.042> what<00:16:32.219> happens<00:16:32.684> when<00:16:32.781> you're<00:16:32.909> not<00:16:33.102> in<00:16:33.166> the<00:16:33.262> room.

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That's<00:16:34.450> actually<00:16:34.932> the<00:16:35.092> aggregate.

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If<00:16:35.991> you<00:16:36.072> look<00:16:36.168> at<00:16:36.232> the<00:16:36.457> aggregate<00:16:36.778> amount<00:16:36.971> of<00:16:37.051> time<00:16:37.356> spent<00:16:37.837> by<00:16:37.982> our<00:16:38.078> people,<00:16:38.463> most<00:16:38.656> of<00:16:38.720> the<00:16:38.801> time<00:16:39.683> my<00:16:39.844> partner<00:16:40.406> and<00:16:40.550> I<00:16:40.887> are<00:16:40.968> not<00:16:41.144> there.

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And<00:16:42.156> so<00:16:42.332> for<00:16:42.477> us,<00:16:42.653> it's<00:16:42.814> really<00:16:43.054> about<00:16:43.295> trying<00:16:43.536> to<00:16:43.632> assess<00:16:44.162> what<00:16:44.323> is<00:16:44.419> going<00:16:44.740> on<00:16:45.623> when<00:16:45.847> we're<00:16:45.943> not<00:16:46.168> there<00:16:46.569> and<00:16:46.665> how<00:16:46.746> do<00:16:46.906> we<00:16:47.066> influence<00:16:47.548> it?

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And<00:16:47.708> so<00:16:47.804> I<00:16:47.933> think<00:16:48.093> we've<00:16:48.270> built<00:16:48.510> some<00:16:48.655> mechanisms<00:16:49.376> to<00:16:49.473> do<00:16:49.633> that.

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And<00:16:50.596> our<00:16:50.997> culture's<00:16:51.382> actually<00:16:51.719> really<00:16:51.895> simple.

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We're<00:16:52.906> a<00:16:52.922> mission-driven<00:16:53.483> company.

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We<00:16:54.767> try<00:16:54.991> to<00:16:55.087> reduce<00:16:55.472> a<00:16:55.553> lot<00:16:55.729> of<00:16:55.793> the<00:16:55.873> noise.

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We<00:16:56.387> don't<00:16:56.595> have<00:16:57.558> many<00:16:58.601> overblown<00:16:59.098> processes<00:17:00.044> or<00:17:00.301> many<00:17:00.702> overblown<00:17:01.969> asks<00:17:02.547> from<00:17:02.707> our<00:17:02.787> employees.

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It's<00:17:03.830> sort<00:17:04.087> of<00:17:04.215> like<00:17:04.408> a<00:17:04.424> no-frills.

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We<00:17:05.755> think<00:17:05.916> this<00:17:06.092> is<00:17:06.477> an<00:17:06.573> incredible<00:17:07.424> opportunity<00:17:08.386> for<00:17:08.627> people<00:17:08.948> to<00:17:09.124> work<00:17:09.830> on<00:17:10.022> something,<00:17:10.568> on<00:17:10.648> a<00:17:10.712> problem<00:17:11.113> that<00:17:11.274> impacts<00:17:13.037> all<00:17:13.134> of<00:17:13.294> us<00:17:14.015> in<00:17:14.159> a<00:17:14.176> way.

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I<00:17:14.336> mean,<00:17:14.480> we<00:17:14.560> just<00:17:14.688> saw<00:17:14.897> what<00:17:15.041> happened<00:17:15.362> with<00:17:15.458> the<00:17:15.538> one<00:17:15.698> big<00:17:15.923> beautiful<00:17:16.259> bill<00:17:16.884> and<00:17:16.981> how<00:17:18.023> controversial<00:17:18.664> it<00:17:18.744> was<00:17:19.289> and<00:17:19.609> how<00:17:19.770> many<00:17:20.010> different<00:17:20.267> parts<00:17:20.523> of<00:17:20.587> the<00:17:20.667> economy.

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I<00:17:21.389> actually<00:17:21.709> read<00:17:22.928> most<00:17:23.873> of<00:17:23.937> the<00:17:24.018> Senate<00:17:24.274> bill,<00:17:24.498> which<00:17:24.595> was<00:17:24.739> almost<00:17:24.979> 800<00:17:25.316> pages,<00:17:25.701> at<00:17:25.733> least<00:17:25.941> the<00:17:26.021> part<00:17:26.262> that<00:17:26.374> applied<00:17:26.903> to<00:17:27.063> the<00:17:27.143> tax.

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I<00:17:27.784> don't<00:17:27.945> think<00:17:28.105> people<00:17:28.442> realize<00:17:29.243> when<00:17:29.403> you<00:17:29.500> hear<00:17:29.708> the<00:17:29.788> politicians<00:17:30.445> talk<00:17:31.327> what<00:17:31.551> is<00:17:31.712> actually<00:17:32.192> in<00:17:32.609> these<00:17:32.850> bills.

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I<00:17:33.186> mean,<00:17:33.395> it<00:17:33.427> impacts<00:17:33.972> the<00:17:34.052> food<00:17:34.356> we<00:17:34.597> eat,<00:17:34.789> the<00:17:34.917> incentives<00:17:35.334> we<00:17:35.478> have<00:17:36.440> around<00:17:37.402> immigration,<00:17:38.123> the<00:17:38.220> incentives<00:17:38.700> we<00:17:38.845> have<00:17:39.566> around<00:17:40.129> auto<00:17:40.305> loans<00:17:40.787> and<00:17:40.948> where<00:17:41.044> our<00:17:41.253> cars<00:17:41.574> are<00:17:41.655> made.

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I<00:17:41.896> mean,<00:17:41.992> it<00:17:42.072> really<00:17:42.233> touches<00:17:42.634> all<00:17:42.779> facets<00:17:43.454> of<00:17:43.598> our<00:17:43.695> economy.

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And<00:17:44.176> so,<00:17:44.321> for<00:17:44.546> us,<00:17:45.204> we<00:17:45.461> try<00:17:45.686> to<00:17:45.847> remove<00:17:46.875> to<00:17:46.971> improve.

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And<00:17:47.533> so,<00:17:47.694> for<00:17:47.839> us,<00:17:48.015> it's<00:17:48.160> really<00:17:48.401> less<00:17:48.594> is<00:17:48.738> more.

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How<00:17:49.782> do<00:17:49.846> we<00:17:49.943> keep<00:17:50.103> people<00:17:50.425> focused<00:17:50.971> on<00:17:51.131> hard,<00:17:51.854> disciplined<00:17:52.336> work,<00:17:52.818> working<00:17:53.075> on<00:17:53.171> the<00:17:53.300> right<00:17:53.493> things,<00:17:54.440> real<00:17:54.665> teamwork,<00:17:56.046> and<00:17:56.191> real<00:17:56.352> problem-solving?

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Not<00:17:57.492> to<00:17:57.572> get<00:17:57.733> political,<00:17:58.135> but<00:17:58.279> is<00:17:58.392> it<00:17:58.520> a<00:17:58.600> good<00:17:58.777> thing<00:17:58.938> or<00:17:59.018> a<00:17:59.098> bad<00:17:59.339> thing,<00:17:59.725> the<00:17:59.821> big<00:17:59.982> beautiful<00:18:00.319> bill?

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Like<00:18:01.186> anything<00:18:01.572> else,<00:18:02.391> I<00:18:02.471> think<00:18:02.712> there<00:18:03.210> are<00:18:03.371> elements<00:18:04.881> of<00:18:04.961> the<00:18:05.106> bill<00:18:05.523> that<00:18:05.748> are<00:18:06.166> really<00:18:06.407> valid.

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I<00:18:06.969> think<00:18:07.210> there<00:18:07.290> are<00:18:07.853> winners<00:18:08.192> and<00:18:08.338> losers<00:18:08.741> like<00:18:08.919> anything,<00:18:09.323> and<00:18:09.404> that's<00:18:09.630> obviously<00:18:10.098> going<00:18:10.211> to<00:18:11.164> upset<00:18:11.487> people,<00:18:11.826> and<00:18:11.874> that's<00:18:12.052> unfortunately<00:18:12.682> part<00:18:12.859> of<00:18:12.940> politics.

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So<00:18:13.812> I'm<00:18:14.151> not<00:18:14.296> going<00:18:14.393> to<00:18:14.539> opine<00:18:15.766> on<00:18:15.847> that<00:18:16.089> piece<00:18:16.315> of<00:18:16.396> it.

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But<00:18:17.156> I<00:18:17.238> think<00:18:17.404> generally<00:18:17.817> speaking,<00:18:21.521> from<00:18:21.682> a<00:18:21.762> legislative<00:18:22.421> perspective,<00:18:22.887> I<00:18:22.920> think<00:18:23.048> it<00:18:23.145> was<00:18:23.305> a<00:18:23.386> well-written<00:18:23.932> piece<00:18:24.189> of<00:18:24.270> legislation.

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You<00:18:24.993> can<00:18:25.090> disagree<00:18:25.475> with<00:18:25.700> it,<00:18:26.826> and<00:18:27.067> we'll<00:18:27.485> see<00:18:27.710> what<00:18:28.047> types<00:18:28.304> of<00:18:28.369> impacts<00:18:28.851> it<00:18:28.980> has<00:18:31.596> on<00:18:32.912> the<00:18:33.400> deficit<00:18:33.887> relative<00:18:34.375> to<00:18:34.521> what<00:18:34.618> happens<00:18:34.943> with<00:18:35.106> tariffs.

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And<00:18:35.771> again,<00:18:36.030> I'm<00:18:36.090> not<00:18:36.190> sure<00:18:36.330> anybody<00:18:36.590> really<00:18:36.930> knows,<00:18:37.650> but<00:18:37.670> I<00:18:38.390> think<00:18:38.790> it<00:18:38.910> was<00:18:39.070> a<00:18:39.490> fair<00:18:39.789> bill<00:18:40.190> that<00:18:40.450> the<00:18:40.730> government<00:18:41.110> rightfully<00:18:41.490> passed<00:18:41.830> from<00:18:41.950> that<00:18:42.150> perspective.

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Give<00:18:43.110> me<00:18:43.270> a<00:18:43.410> sense<00:18:43.490> for<00:18:43.650> your<00:18:43.790> macroeconomic<00:18:44.750> perspective<00:18:45.290> going<00:18:45.590> into<00:18:46.190> the<00:18:46.570> second<00:18:46.810> half<00:18:47.010> of<00:18:47.110> this<00:18:47.310> year,<00:18:47.650> which<00:18:47.651> we're<00:18:47.810> already<00:18:48.110> in.

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How<00:18:49.150> are<00:18:49.310> you<00:18:49.410> feeling<00:18:49.790> about<00:18:50.210> it?

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How<00:18:51.091> have<00:18:51.590> tariffs<00:18:51.970> affected<00:18:52.350> your<00:18:52.550> business<00:18:52.850> at<00:18:53.110> all?

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Do<00:18:53.311> they<00:18:53.430> affect<00:18:53.850> at<00:18:54.750> your<00:18:54.910> stage?

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Give<00:18:55.570> us<00:18:55.750> a<00:18:55.890> sense<00:18:56.050> for<00:18:56.210> how<00:18:56.470> you're<00:18:56.690> thinking<00:18:56.850> about<00:18:57.030> things.

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Yeah,<00:18:58.010> look,<00:18:58.210> it's<00:18:58.270> a<00:18:58.390> great<00:18:58.570> question.

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And<00:18:59.090> I<00:18:59.130> think<00:18:59.490> where<00:19:00.090> I'd<00:19:00.490> start<00:19:00.650> is<00:19:00.910> to<00:19:01.070> say,<00:19:01.912> We've<00:19:03.036> been<00:19:03.261> in<00:19:03.357> what<00:19:03.582> feels<00:19:03.839> like<00:19:04.000> a<00:19:04.064> period<00:19:04.497> of<00:19:04.626> uncertainty<00:19:05.140> now<00:19:05.525> for<00:19:05.766> basically<00:19:06.248> 4<00:19:06.553> years.

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And<00:19:07.837> I<00:19:08.255> grew<00:19:08.479> up<00:19:08.656> really<00:19:08.961> in<00:19:09.041> a<00:19:09.122> post-2008<00:19:10.182> business<00:19:10.487> cycle<00:19:10.968> where<00:19:11.691> things<00:19:11.868> were<00:19:11.948> kind<00:19:12.124> of<00:19:12.189> rocky,<00:19:12.654> but<00:19:12.767> then<00:19:12.895> they<00:19:12.992> stabilized.

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And<00:19:13.875> then<00:19:14.099> for<00:19:14.196> about<00:19:14.421> a<00:19:14.437> decade,<00:19:15.464> everybody<00:19:15.818> kind<00:19:16.058> of<00:19:16.107> knew<00:19:16.444> where<00:19:16.669> things<00:19:16.990> were<00:19:17.070> at.

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And<00:19:17.504> so<00:19:18.355> I<00:19:18.531> think<00:19:18.756> the<00:19:18.997> only<00:19:19.254> norm<00:19:19.960> is<00:19:20.137> that<00:19:20.603> we're<00:19:20.859> in<00:19:21.305> an<00:19:21.325> unstable,<00:19:21.887> chaotic,<00:19:23.188> both<00:19:23.493> global,<00:19:24.408> national,<00:19:25.034> and<00:19:25.115> possibly<00:19:25.596> local<00:19:25.917> environment<00:19:26.415> depending<00:19:26.801> on<00:19:26.945> where<00:19:27.106> you<00:19:27.202> live.

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And<00:19:27.539> so<00:19:27.668> I<00:19:27.748> think<00:19:27.908> it's<00:19:28.085> expect<00:19:28.470> the<00:19:28.551> unexpected,<00:19:29.611> which<00:19:29.835> means<00:19:30.156> you<00:19:30.317> have<00:19:30.510> to<00:19:30.638> be<00:19:30.734> a<00:19:30.751> little<00:19:30.975> bit<00:19:31.120> more<00:19:31.280> conservative.

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You<00:19:32.003> have<00:19:32.196> to<00:19:32.340> lean<00:19:32.822> leave<00:19:33.046> room<00:19:33.223> for<00:19:33.383> error.

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You<00:19:34.185> have<00:19:34.442> to<00:19:35.469> expect<00:19:35.966> that<00:19:36.126> things<00:19:36.415> are<00:19:36.495> going<00:19:36.736> to<00:19:36.832> happen<00:19:37.779> that<00:19:37.891> we<00:19:37.971> just<00:19:38.131> don't<00:19:38.356> expect<00:19:38.821> and<00:19:38.982> on<00:19:39.078> time<00:19:39.383> horizons<00:19:39.864> that<00:19:39.944> we<00:19:40.040> don't<00:19:40.185> expect<00:19:40.522> them.

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And<00:19:40.842> so,<00:19:41.308> the<00:19:41.388> whole<00:19:41.628> AI<00:19:41.965> boom,<00:19:42.607> we<00:19:42.767> believed<00:19:43.152> it.

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We<00:19:43.489> underwrote<00:19:43.874> the<00:19:43.970> business<00:19:44.291> based<00:19:44.596> on<00:19:44.692> AI,<00:19:44.933> but<00:19:45.077> we<00:19:45.173> didn't<00:19:45.398> expect<00:19:45.879> it,<00:19:46.377> and<00:19:46.457> this<00:19:46.633> is<00:19:46.762> people<00:19:47.002> that<00:19:47.163> were<00:19:47.259> coming<00:19:47.499> from<00:19:47.660> the<00:19:47.740> industry,<00:19:48.061> to<00:19:48.125> happen<00:19:48.382> as<00:19:48.542> quickly<00:19:48.927> as<00:19:49.039> it<00:19:49.489> did.

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I<00:19:50.291> was<00:19:51.093> a<00:19:51.189> very<00:19:51.510> early<00:19:51.975> investor<00:19:52.857> and<00:19:53.194> user<00:19:53.499> of<00:19:53.579> Ethereum<00:19:54.461> when<00:19:54.558> it<00:19:54.622> was<00:19:55.119> $6.

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I've<00:19:56.579> been<00:19:56.723> believing<00:19:57.124> in<00:19:57.204> this<00:19:57.429> thing<00:19:57.670> for<00:19:58.728> the<00:19:58.808> better<00:19:59.033> part<00:19:59.210> of<00:19:59.274> a<00:19:59.306> decade,<00:20:00.172> And<00:20:00.413> then<00:20:01.200> boom,<00:20:01.601> you<00:20:01.939> get<00:20:02.083> a<00:20:02.099> piece<00:20:02.276> of<00:20:02.340> legislation,<00:20:03.063> a<00:20:03.143> couple<00:20:03.400> of<00:20:03.448> companies<00:20:04.010> figure<00:20:04.187> something<00:20:04.572> out,<00:20:04.974> and<00:20:05.616> you're<00:20:06.033> off<00:20:06.194> to<00:20:06.290> the<00:20:06.354> races.

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And<00:20:06.981> so<00:20:07.398> I<00:20:07.479> think<00:20:07.719> that<00:20:08.988> generally<00:20:09.405> speaking,<00:20:10.401> look,<00:20:10.594> tariffs<00:20:11.236> might<00:20:11.557> hurt<00:20:11.750> some<00:20:11.975> businesses<00:20:12.456> very<00:20:12.617> specifically.

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We're<00:20:13.661> not<00:20:13.837> affected<00:20:15.106> directly<00:20:15.588> by<00:20:15.668> tariffs.

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And<00:20:16.214> I<00:20:16.310> think<00:20:16.471> most<00:20:16.728> of<00:20:16.792> the<00:20:16.937> US<00:20:17.756> financial<00:20:18.173> services<00:20:18.783> businesses<00:20:19.426> that<00:20:19.666> we<00:20:19.843> index<00:20:20.164> to,<00:20:21.208> again,<00:20:21.449> components<00:20:21.995> of<00:20:22.075> them<00:20:22.428> might<00:20:22.653> be,<00:20:22.814> but<00:20:23.039> generally<00:20:23.376> speaking<00:20:23.842> are<00:20:24.259> not<00:20:24.885> fundamentally<00:20:25.463> affected<00:20:25.785> by<00:20:25.945> them.

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But<00:20:26.748> we're<00:20:26.828> very<00:20:27.085> affected<00:20:27.471> by<00:20:27.615> interest<00:20:27.872> rates<00:20:28.498> and<00:20:28.836> we're<00:20:28.996> very<00:20:29.638> affected<00:20:30.762> I<00:20:30.827> would<00:20:30.939> say<00:20:31.164> by<00:20:31.646> economic<00:20:32.224> certainty<00:20:33.091> because<00:20:33.572> our<00:20:33.717> product<00:20:34.134> is<00:20:34.231> a<00:20:34.279> new<00:20:34.455> product.

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And<00:20:36.205> when<00:20:36.366> we<00:20:36.607> ask<00:20:37.345> customers<00:20:37.891> to<00:20:37.988> invest<00:20:38.373> with<00:20:38.534> us,<00:20:38.774> that's<00:20:39.256> like<00:20:39.369> a<00:20:39.433> new<00:20:39.593> investment,<00:20:40.075> right?

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It's<00:20:40.862> R&D<00:20:41.215> investment,<00:20:41.905> it's<00:20:42.628> investing<00:20:43.222> into<00:20:43.383> something<00:20:43.752> that's<00:20:43.993> net<00:20:44.153> new<00:20:44.314> from<00:20:44.490> a<00:20:44.506> marketing<00:20:44.972> user.

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It's<00:20:45.919> a<00:20:46.000> growth<00:20:46.257> mentality.

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And<00:20:47.397> so<00:20:47.621> that<00:20:48.344> generally<00:20:48.745> does<00:20:48.986> better<00:20:49.307> when<00:20:49.693> leadership<00:20:50.495> is<00:20:50.752> positive<00:20:51.170> about<00:20:51.956> the<00:20:52.101> outlook.

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And<00:20:52.759> I<00:20:52.904> think<00:20:53.482> there's<00:20:53.723> a<00:20:53.883> general<00:20:54.285> sense<00:20:54.606> of<00:20:54.670> positivity,<00:20:55.248> but<00:20:55.392> there's<00:20:55.521> still<00:20:55.714> a<00:20:55.810> lot<00:20:56.051> of<00:20:56.612> concerned<00:20:57.078> because<00:20:57.318> you<00:20:57.415> have<00:20:57.559> so<00:20:57.896> many<00:20:58.137> different<00:20:59.260> tail<00:20:59.501> risks.

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You<00:21:00.062> have<00:21:00.624> various<00:21:01.667> different<00:21:02.052> global<00:21:03.030> events.

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You<00:21:04.057> have<00:21:04.218> trade<00:21:04.475> wars.

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You<00:21:05.598> have<00:21:06.881> civil<00:21:07.443> and<00:21:08.229> ongoing,<00:21:09.432> I<00:21:09.753> would<00:21:09.866> say,<00:21:10.475> domestic<00:21:11.294> political<00:21:11.759> ping<00:21:11.935> pong,<00:21:12.256> right?

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It's<00:21:12.561> also<00:21:12.818> we<00:21:12.962> kind<00:21:13.219> of<00:21:13.315> keep<00:21:13.540> going<00:21:13.765> back<00:21:13.957> and<00:21:14.101> forth.

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So,<00:21:15.128> I<00:21:15.209> think<00:21:15.369> it's<00:21:15.706> cautious<00:21:16.428> optimism<00:21:17.535> and<00:21:18.016> with<00:21:18.690> a<00:21:18.755> very<00:21:19.236> careful<00:21:20.535> sense<00:21:21.065> of<00:21:21.627> responsibility<00:21:22.365> and<00:21:22.445> accountability<00:21:23.167> for<00:21:23.311> making<00:21:23.568> sure<00:21:23.793> we<00:21:23.889> have<00:21:24.130> wiggle<00:21:24.611> room.

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Give<00:21:25.320> us<00:21:25.440> a<00:21:25.620> sense<00:21:25.780> for<00:21:25.940> New<00:21:26.120> York<00:21:26.340> City's<00:21:27.340> startup<00:21:27.640> community<00:21:28.200> and<00:21:28.980> the<00:21:29.400> VC<00:21:29.760> community.

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I<00:21:30.121> think<00:21:30.260> it<00:21:30.840> was<00:21:31.020> once<00:21:31.260> called<00:21:31.500> Silicon<00:21:31.780> Alley.

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I<00:21:32.181> don't<00:21:32.300> know<00:21:32.420> if<00:21:32.440> you<00:21:32.500> guys<00:21:32.620> still<00:21:32.800> call<00:21:32.980> yourselves<00:21:33.220> that<00:21:33.360> or<00:21:33.540> not,<00:21:34.700> but<00:21:34.720> obviously,<00:21:35.640> you<00:21:35.720> know,<00:21:36.000> everybody<00:21:36.100> knows<00:21:36.320> about<00:21:36.520> Silicon<00:21:36.800> Valley,<00:21:38.210> but<00:21:38.760> New<00:21:39.000> York<00:21:39.220> City<00:21:39.360> has<00:21:39.520> a<00:21:39.720> very,<00:21:40.040> very<00:21:40.380> strong<00:21:40.920> tech<00:21:41.400> and<00:21:41.660> startup<00:21:42.020> ecosystem.

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Give<00:21:42.880> us<00:21:43.020> a<00:21:43.180> sense<00:21:43.360> for<00:21:43.520> that.

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Yeah,<00:21:44.460> look,<00:21:44.760> I've<00:21:44.900> been<00:21:45.000> here<00:21:45.320> since<00:21:45.580> there<00:21:45.740> was<00:21:45.920> like<00:21:46.040> a—<00:21:46.400> it<00:21:46.420> was<00:21:46.620> basically<00:21:46.880> Union<00:21:47.140> Square<00:21:47.480> Ventures,<00:21:48.020> FirstMark,<00:21:48.480> and<00:21:48.540> a<00:21:48.680> couple<00:21:48.820> of<00:21:48.980> funds,<00:21:49.760> and<00:21:49.920> you<00:21:50.140> had<00:21:50.280> basically<00:21:50.620> had<00:21:50.900> to<00:21:51.020> go<00:21:51.080> to<00:21:51.240> Sand<00:21:51.380> Hill<00:21:51.500> Road<00:21:52.316> to<00:21:52.413> get<00:21:52.525> money.

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And<00:21:52.927> now<00:21:53.135> you<00:21:53.280> look<00:21:53.456> at<00:21:53.537> all<00:21:53.617> the<00:21:53.697> big<00:21:53.922> funds,<00:21:54.340> Andreessen,<00:21:55.046> Lightspeed,<00:21:56.186> they<00:21:56.347> all<00:21:56.507> have<00:21:56.893> presence<00:21:57.310> here.

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You<00:21:57.567> don't<00:21:57.711> have<00:21:57.968> to<00:21:58.049> go<00:21:58.209> to<00:21:58.289> the<00:21:58.370> Valley<00:21:58.675> to<00:21:58.755> raise<00:21:59.108> money.

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I<00:21:59.397> don't<00:21:59.622> love<00:21:59.799> the<00:21:59.895> Silicon<00:22:00.361> Alley<00:22:02.031> term.

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I<00:22:02.673> think<00:22:03.235> the<00:22:03.331> New<00:22:03.428> York<00:22:04.054> business<00:22:04.375> environment<00:22:04.937> is<00:22:05.178> very<00:22:05.499> different<00:22:06.623> than<00:22:06.944> what<00:22:07.088> you<00:22:07.185> find<00:22:07.442> in<00:22:07.506> the<00:22:07.586> Valley.

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And<00:22:08.293> I<00:22:08.389> think<00:22:08.614> the<00:22:08.694> strengths<00:22:09.047> and<00:22:09.176> weaknesses<00:22:09.593> here<00:22:10.139> are<00:22:10.236> just<00:22:10.428> different.

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The<00:22:11.183> culture<00:22:11.504> here<00:22:12.227> is<00:22:12.387> much<00:22:12.628> more<00:22:12.789> business<00:22:13.190> first,<00:22:14.153> tech<00:22:14.346> second,<00:22:15.213> so<00:22:15.293> that<00:22:16.257> we<00:22:16.337> don't<00:22:16.562> have<00:22:17.893> tech<00:22:18.199> leadership,<00:22:18.601> but<00:22:18.697> if<00:22:18.778> you<00:22:18.858> look<00:22:19.035> at<00:22:19.099> most<00:22:19.405> of<00:22:19.485> the<00:22:19.743> technology<00:22:20.450> innovation,<00:22:20.949> I<00:22:21.029> think<00:22:21.255> that<00:22:21.351> that<00:22:21.496> still<00:22:21.753> predominantly<00:22:22.300> comes<00:22:22.622> out<00:22:24.069> of<00:22:25.067> the<00:22:25.195> broader<00:22:25.453> Silicon<00:22:25.839> Valley<00:22:26.177> area.

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And<00:22:26.965> a<00:22:26.981> lot<00:22:27.368> of<00:22:27.707> what<00:22:28.094> you<00:22:28.191> have<00:22:28.368> here<00:22:28.513> is<00:22:28.610> going<00:22:28.707> to<00:22:28.771> be<00:22:28.917> more<00:22:29.078> of<00:22:29.223> your<00:22:29.949> fintech,<00:22:30.595> adtech<00:22:32.047> components<00:22:32.612> that<00:22:32.709> are<00:22:32.789> tied<00:22:33.273> to<00:22:34.403> industry<00:22:35.355> and<00:22:36.000> have<00:22:36.178> a<00:22:36.258> little<00:22:36.484> bit<00:22:36.581> of<00:22:36.630> a<00:22:36.646> different<00:22:36.971> capital<00:22:37.329> cycle<00:22:37.704> to<00:22:37.818> them,<00:22:38.111> probably<00:22:38.355> a<00:22:38.453> different<00:22:38.778> entrepreneur.

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I<00:22:39.755> think<00:22:39.918> there<00:22:40.146> is<00:22:40.308> more<00:22:40.487> blends<00:22:40.959> now<00:22:42.115> and<00:22:42.262> more<00:22:42.830> cross-pollination<00:22:43.577> than<00:22:43.674> there<00:22:43.820> was<00:22:43.999> maybe<00:22:44.242> a<00:22:44.259> decade<00:22:44.632> ago.

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I<00:22:45.785> love<00:22:45.948> the<00:22:46.110> ecosystem<00:22:46.597> here.

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It's<00:22:47.112> But<00:22:47.417> it<00:22:47.593> is,<00:22:48.059> I<00:22:48.476> think<00:22:49.054> there<00:22:49.263> are<00:22:49.504> aspects<00:22:50.226> of<00:22:51.045> whether<00:22:51.302> you're<00:22:51.447> going<00:22:52.153> for<00:22:52.330> deep<00:22:52.571> tech<00:22:53.036> or<00:22:53.197> whether<00:22:53.454> you're<00:22:53.679> going<00:22:54.016> for<00:22:55.461> something<00:22:55.846> that<00:22:56.023> requires<00:22:56.520> a<00:22:56.585> lot<00:22:56.745> of<00:22:56.809> virality,<00:22:57.388> I<00:22:57.468> think<00:22:57.628> there<00:22:57.853> are<00:22:58.030> certain<00:22:58.576> elements<00:22:59.298> of<00:22:59.395> the<00:22:59.475> Valley<00:22:59.796> that<00:23:00.197> still<00:23:00.743> are<00:23:01.482> advantageous.

00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.870
I<00:23:03.248> love<00:23:03.425> building<00:23:03.730> my<00:23:03.890> companies<00:23:04.372> here<00:23:04.532> in<00:23:04.613> New<00:23:04.757> York.

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I<00:23:05.078> wouldn't<00:23:05.239> trade<00:23:05.560> it<00:23:06.122> and<00:23:06.395> I<00:23:06.443> wouldn't<00:23:06.620> trade<00:23:06.941> living<00:23:07.246> anywhere<00:23:07.567> else<00:23:08.145> in<00:23:08.290> the<00:23:08.370> world,<00:23:08.691> quite<00:23:08.868> frankly.

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But<00:23:09.895> I<00:23:10.313> think<00:23:10.473> there<00:23:10.698> are<00:23:10.794> advantages<00:23:11.517> to<00:23:11.677> both<00:23:11.934> at<00:23:12.063> this<00:23:12.239> point.

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And,<00:23:13.427> uh,<00:23:13.924> and,<00:23:14.228> and,<00:23:14.789> and<00:23:15.046> so<00:23:15.847> what<00:23:16.072> we've<00:23:16.472> done<00:23:16.649> to<00:23:16.793> complement<00:23:17.274> that<00:23:17.610> is<00:23:17.851> we<00:23:18.075> have<00:23:18.316> a<00:23:18.957> kind<00:23:19.117> of<00:23:19.518> a<00:23:19.534> sub,<00:23:19.999> uh,<00:23:20.961> uh,<00:23:21.217> company<00:23:21.762> or,<00:23:22.083> or<00:23:22.259> subsidiary<00:23:23.205> in<00:23:23.365> Tel<00:23:23.542> Aviv.

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And<00:23:23.926> so<00:23:24.023> a<00:23:24.039> lot<00:23:24.279> of<00:23:24.407> our<00:23:24.519> R&D<00:23:24.824> talent<00:23:25.786> is<00:23:25.946> coming<00:23:26.251> out<00:23:26.363> of<00:23:26.427> there<00:23:26.651> because<00:23:26.892> you<00:23:26.988> do<00:23:27.213> get<00:23:27.389> a<00:23:27.469> really<00:23:27.774> dense<00:23:28.094> nucleus,<00:23:28.816> uh,<00:23:29.056> coming<00:23:29.312> out<00:23:29.393> of<00:23:29.473> Tel<00:23:29.633> Aviv<00:23:29.874> that<00:23:30.018> does<00:23:30.194> have<00:23:30.354> that<00:23:30.515> deep<00:23:30.739> tech<00:23:30.980> angle.

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Yeah,<00:23:31.941> it's,<00:23:32.054> it's<00:23:32.358> gotta<00:23:32.599> be<00:23:32.759> great<00:23:33.160> for<00:23:33.625> fintech,<00:23:34.506> right?

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Because<00:23:35.163> it's<00:23:35.324> the,<00:23:35.741> I<00:23:35.885> mean,<00:23:36.045> New<00:23:36.125> York<00:23:36.366> City,<00:23:36.590> greatest<00:23:36.927> city<00:23:37.087> in<00:23:37.151> the<00:23:37.231> world,<00:23:37.408> but<00:23:37.552> also<00:23:37.792> the<00:23:37.873> financial<00:23:39.011> capital<00:23:39.427> of<00:23:39.476> the<00:23:39.556> world,<00:23:39.892> right?

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So<00:23:40.934> it's<00:23:41.159> got,<00:23:41.239> it's<00:23:41.415> gotta<00:23:41.592> be,<00:23:41.736> there's<00:23:41.896> gotta<00:23:42.056> be<00:23:42.153> some<00:23:42.377> advantages<00:23:42.922> for<00:23:43.098> you<00:23:43.323> building<00:23:43.724> it<00:23:44.044> for<00:23:44.365> us.

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I<00:23:45.408> love<00:23:46.292> the<00:23:46.388> New<00:23:46.533> York-Tel<00:23:47.047> Aviv<00:23:49.922> sort<00:23:50.243> of<00:23:50.468> symbiotic<00:23:51.191> relationship.

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We<00:23:51.850> get<00:23:53.199> the<00:23:53.922> cutting-edge<00:23:54.340> finance<00:23:54.741> here<00:23:54.902> in<00:23:54.982> New<00:23:55.063> York.

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We<00:23:55.528> have<00:23:55.641> cutting-edge<00:23:56.107> R&D<00:23:56.492> in<00:23:56.589> Tel<00:23:56.749> Aviv.

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It's<00:23:57.649> a<00:23:57.697> very<00:23:57.954> good<00:23:58.211> setup.

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I'd<00:23:58.757> like<00:23:58.918> to<00:23:59.014> have<00:23:59.303> more<00:23:59.416> of<00:23:59.480> a<00:23:59.560> presence<00:23:59.962> in<00:24:00.026> the<00:24:00.107> Valley<00:24:00.508> over<00:24:00.685> time,<00:24:01.006> but<00:24:01.231> you<00:24:01.263> can<00:24:01.488> only<00:24:01.729> spread<00:24:02.018> yourself<00:24:02.854> so<00:24:03.030> thin<00:24:03.801> at<00:24:04.042> the<00:24:04.155> earlier<00:24:04.460> days.

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But<00:24:05.649> for<00:24:05.809> us,<00:24:05.922> it's<00:24:06.050> worked<00:24:06.291> out<00:24:06.452> very,<00:24:06.629> very<00:24:06.789> well.

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Yeah.

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That's<00:24:08.219> finally,<00:24:08.508> because<00:24:09.135> I<00:24:09.151> don't<00:24:09.263> want<00:24:09.359> to<00:24:09.440> keep<00:24:09.616> you<00:24:09.745> for<00:24:09.825> too<00:24:09.986> long,<00:24:10.163> we<00:24:10.468> end<00:24:10.548> every<00:24:10.709> interview<00:24:11.191> with<00:24:11.287> the<00:24:11.367> same<00:24:11.608> question.

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And<00:24:12.733> that<00:24:12.958> is<00:24:13.118> at<00:24:13.199> CEO.com,<00:24:13.938> we<00:24:14.098> believe<00:24:14.339> the<00:24:14.419> chances<00:24:14.885> one<00:24:15.126> gives<00:24:15.608> is<00:24:15.704> just<00:24:15.881> as<00:24:16.010> important<00:24:16.267> as<00:24:16.411> the<00:24:16.508> chances<00:24:16.893> one<00:24:17.070> takes.

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When<00:24:18.355> you<00:24:18.515> hear<00:24:18.692> that,<00:24:18.901> who<00:24:19.062> gave<00:24:19.222> you<00:24:19.335> a<00:24:19.399> chance<00:24:19.704> to<00:24:19.784> get<00:24:19.881> you<00:24:19.961> to<00:24:20.025> where<00:24:20.186> you<00:24:20.363> are<00:24:20.443> today?

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There<00:24:21.294> are<00:24:21.326> a<00:24:21.391> lot<00:24:21.471> of<00:24:21.648> people,<00:24:22.194> and<00:24:22.451> I<00:24:22.595> think<00:24:22.756> that<00:24:22.852> that's,<00:24:23.334> you<00:24:23.415> know,<00:24:23.479> I,<00:24:23.800> I,<00:24:23.896> we<00:24:24.057> probably<00:24:24.298> could<00:24:24.459> sit<00:24:24.619> here<00:24:24.780> for<00:24:24.941> another<00:24:25.342> hour<00:24:25.808> and,<00:24:26.049> and<00:24:26.145> talk<00:24:26.370> about<00:24:26.627> them.

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I<00:24:27.029> think,<00:24:27.896> you<00:24:27.992> know,<00:24:28.780> I<00:24:28.812> think<00:24:28.956> Nadav<00:24:29.358> gave<00:24:29.518> me<00:24:29.679> a<00:24:29.743> real<00:24:29.920> shot<00:24:30.402> coming<00:24:30.659> out.

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Nadav's<00:24:31.060> now<00:24:31.205> the<00:24:31.301> CEO<00:24:31.590> of<00:24:31.671> Checkpoint,<00:24:32.249> and,<00:24:32.490> and<00:24:32.635> so<00:24:32.811> he,<00:24:33.100> he<00:24:33.133> had<00:24:33.277> founded<00:24:33.598> Team8<00:24:34.032> and<00:24:34.161> he<00:24:34.257> gave<00:24:34.418> me<00:24:34.562> a<00:24:34.578> real<00:24:34.803> shot<00:24:35.606> coming<00:24:35.863> outta<00:24:36.024> Deloitte.

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I<00:24:36.570> was<00:24:36.682> a<00:24:36.747> young<00:24:36.907> kid,<00:24:38.336> And<00:24:39.010> he<00:24:39.154> was<00:24:39.379> meeting<00:24:39.700> with<00:24:40.020> heads<00:24:40.213> of<00:24:40.277> state<00:24:40.902> and<00:24:41.865> Fortune<00:24:42.201> 100<00:24:42.602> CEOs,<00:24:43.629> and<00:24:43.805> he<00:24:44.190> really<00:24:44.431> let<00:24:44.543> me<00:24:44.687> in<00:24:44.944> and<00:24:45.088> gave<00:24:45.249> me<00:24:45.329> a<00:24:45.345> lot<00:24:45.570> of<00:24:45.650> autonomy<00:24:46.131> to<00:24:46.211> be<00:24:46.596> his<00:24:46.756> chief<00:24:46.949> of<00:24:47.013> staff.

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And<00:24:48.376> I<00:24:48.440> just<00:24:48.601> learned<00:24:48.873> a<00:24:48.938> tremendous<00:24:49.499> amount<00:24:50.702> under<00:24:50.926> his<00:24:51.039> stewardship<00:24:51.808> about<00:24:52.450> leadership.

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He<00:24:54.070> led<00:24:55.032> Israeli<00:24:55.289> intelligence<00:24:55.994> during<00:24:56.315> some<00:24:56.475> pretty—<00:24:57.839> well,<00:24:58.240> many<00:24:58.721> periods<00:24:59.122> there<00:24:59.346> have<00:24:59.763> been<00:24:59.988> chaotic<00:25:00.629> and<00:25:01.110> dealing<00:25:01.351> with<00:25:01.527> uncertainty<00:25:02.169> and<00:25:02.329> real<00:25:02.875> life<00:25:03.147> and<00:25:03.244> death<00:25:03.388> situations.

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And<00:25:04.318> so<00:25:04.895> I<00:25:04.976> think<00:25:05.136> I<00:25:05.216> learned<00:25:05.521> a<00:25:05.537> lot<00:25:05.713> about<00:25:05.938> how<00:25:06.098> to<00:25:06.179> deal<00:25:06.419> with<00:25:06.579> ambiguity,<00:25:07.846> how<00:25:08.006> to<00:25:08.087> have<00:25:08.407> grit<00:25:08.888> and<00:25:09.064> mental<00:25:09.304> toughness,<00:25:09.785> and<00:25:09.865> those<00:25:10.330> things<00:25:10.586> have<00:25:10.763> served<00:25:11.067> me<00:25:11.211> really<00:25:11.452> well,<00:25:11.949> and<00:25:12.333> I'll<00:25:12.910> be<00:25:13.054> forever<00:25:13.375> grateful<00:25:13.711> for<00:25:13.855> that.

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But<00:25:14.256> it<00:25:14.448> is<00:25:14.657> also<00:25:14.849> a<00:25:14.977> good<00:25:15.073> reminder<00:25:15.554> that<00:25:15.698> you<00:25:15.810> have<00:25:16.019> to<00:25:16.115> pay<00:25:16.291> it<00:25:16.419> forward<00:25:16.676> because<00:25:16.916> none<00:25:17.076> of<00:25:17.157> us<00:25:17.301> would<00:25:17.397> be<00:25:17.621> here<00:25:18.455> if<00:25:18.519> somebody<00:25:18.807> didn't<00:25:19.144> take<00:25:19.336> a<00:25:19.384> chance<00:25:19.705> on<00:25:19.801> us<00:25:19.961> at<00:25:20.041> some<00:25:20.201> point<00:25:20.330> in<00:25:20.442> time.

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Yeah,<00:25:21.644> that's<00:25:21.884> for<00:25:22.028> sure.

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Hey<00:25:22.749> Ben,<00:25:22.926> thanks<00:25:23.086> so<00:25:23.214> much<00:25:23.470> for<00:25:23.567> coming<00:25:23.807> on.

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Congratulations<00:25:25.009> today<00:25:25.249> on<00:25:25.345> the<00:25:25.473> big<00:25:25.634> raise.

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That's<00:25:26.771> so<00:25:26.932> hard<00:25:27.172> to<00:25:27.252> do.

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I<00:25:27.669> know<00:25:27.957> how<00:25:28.037> hard<00:25:28.294> that<00:25:28.518> is.

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We<00:25:29.095> celebrate<00:25:29.640> raising<00:25:29.960> maybe<00:25:30.153> a<00:25:30.201> little<00:25:30.377> bit<00:25:30.537> too<00:25:30.682> much,<00:25:30.938> but<00:25:31.082> it<00:25:31.162> also,<00:25:31.435> like,<00:25:32.044> it's<00:25:32.380> very<00:25:32.605> hard<00:25:32.845> to<00:25:32.925> do.

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To<00:25:34.456> close<00:25:34.699> those<00:25:34.812> types<00:25:35.054> of<00:25:35.118> rounds.

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So<00:25:35.522> congratulations<00:25:36.248> on<00:25:36.394> all<00:25:36.490> of<00:25:36.571> that.

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Let's<00:25:37.201> have<00:25:37.362> you<00:25:37.459> back<00:25:37.717> in<00:25:37.798> a<00:25:37.863> year,<00:25:38.105> man.

00:25:38.411 --> 00:25:40.817
It'd<00:25:38.492> be<00:25:38.589> fun<00:25:38.750> to<00:25:39.154> catch<00:25:39.461> up<00:25:39.574> and<00:25:39.703> see<00:25:39.880> where<00:25:40.123> you've<00:25:40.526> gotten.

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Absolutely.

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Thanks<00:25:41.984> so<00:25:42.033> much<00:25:42.164> for<00:25:42.278> having<00:25:42.457> me,<00:25:42.538> Clint.

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I'd<00:25:43.011> love<00:25:43.190> to<00:25:43.272> continue<00:25:43.597> the<00:25:43.679> conversation<00:25:44.233> whenever<00:25:44.477> you'd<00:25:44.591> like.

00:25:44.917 --> 00:25:45.471
Okay.

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Thanks,<00:25:45.944> brother.

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Appreciate<00:25:46.710> it,<00:25:46.775> man.