Marco Zappacosta wants Thumbtack to be a verb

Marco Zappacosta went to Columbia to become a neuroscientist. He studied it, worked in a lab, and found out he hated the work. What replaced it was Social Security reform, which he took up the way other undergraduates take up a band.

"Getting into pension reform as a 20-year-old is not normal, and I recognize that," he said on the CEO.com Podcast.

He wrote op-eds about it for the student paper, which he admits to sheepishly. Those op-eds put him in touch with a student who was even further gone on the subject and had already started an advocacy group called Students for Saving Social Security. Zappacosta joined. Both of them took time off from college to build it. They signed up 13,000 students across the country, which nobody had told them was possible.

"When we talked to people originally, nobody thought that there was going to be any interest in this among young people. Our perspective was like, why? Aren't they actually the most important constituency here, that retirees are going to be taken care of? And so whether we amend things to be better or worse will be borne by young people today and future people in the future."

The intuition was right. Washington was still the wrong place to have it.

"It's a world where you really have no agency unless you have a whole lot of power, which is pretty rare," he said. "Instead, if we built a technology company, we could have a similar impact but have much more agency and control in getting there."

That is roughly the whole origin story of a company now valued in the billions. Two students who liked building things out of nothing, and who had figured out that politics would not let them.

Looking for something broken

The search for the business was unsentimental. Not a passion, a problem. Preferably one that would get solved whether or not they showed up.

"There are a lot of things out there that are big problems that are way out of our capability or humanity's capability to fix," Zappacosta said. "So we didn't bother with those. It was much more basic, like, hey, what's something broken today that feels like technology's going to inevitably solve?"

In 2007 and 2008, that question had an obvious answer. Buying objects online had been rebuilt. Hiring a painter or a plumber or a carpenter had not moved since the Yellow Pages. Thumbtack was founded in 2008 by Zappacosta, Jeremy Tunnell, Jonathan Swanson, and Sander Daniels, and the product launched the following year. His wife named it. She has also named their children and, by his account, anything else of importance they do.

The existing options were directories and classifieds, which is to say newspaper products with a browser wrapped around them.

"Let's build something that was impossible to build in the previous analog world, not just the online version of that old thing," Zappacosta said. "And that really focused us on the importance and challenge of matchmaking."

That left the problem every marketplace founder has to answer. Nobody comes to an empty marketplace, and you cannot fill it without the people who will not come. Thumbtack started on the supply side, because pros spend all day hunting customers and will therefore try almost anything. But a pro will not join a network with no customers, so the team looked for what Zappacosta calls network-independent value: something worth having on day one, with no network attached.

They built a tool for reposting ads on Craigslist. Listings there expire and have to be refreshed by hand, which is tedious, so Thumbtack made it painless and let pros publish a version with photos and reviews attached. The pros who signed up were already grinding away on Craigslist, and by signing up, they filled out the best profiles on the internet for small service businesses that mostly didn't have websites.

The profiles pulled organic search traffic. The traffic became customers. The customers, eventually and with difficulty, became a direct relationship.

"You need to jumpstart off of something bigger. That's critical to get going. But if you just stay focused on that, then you end up building for this partner rather than the customer. So at some point you have to say, hey, we are going to get past this."

The early money came from friends and family, then from a room. In 2010, Jason Calacanis was annoyed that angel forums charged founders for the privilege of pitching, so he built one that did not and curated the investors himself. He called it the Open Angel Forum. By Zappacosta's account, Calacanis invested in Uber and Thumbtack out of it, both at a $6 million post-money valuation. Joshua Schachter, Scott and Cyan Banister, and Naval Ravikant came in around the same spark.

What that kind of investor gives you is not product help.

"They provide validation, because early-stage companies, it's hard to know from the outside. Is this thing legit, or is it fake? And when serious people put their stamp of approval on it, then everybody else takes notice."

Then access, which is how a first-time founder in his twenties ended up in front of Roelof Botha at Sequoia and Marc Andreessen. Then talent, which Zappacosta rates highest and which gets discussed least. An introduction from Ali Partovi produced an early executive who ran category management, then marketing, and later became a CEO herself.

What he got wrong about hiring

Thumbtack went from 20 people to roughly 1,000 in a decade, which works out to 50 percent compounded growth for 10 straight years. Zappacosta's account of what he misunderstood during that stretch is the part of the conversation most worth stealing.

"At first, my mental model was to just find the most talented humans possible. Nothing else mattered. We hired a lot of very talented people, but not all of them were a success. You start thinking about why. They're smart, they're hardworking, they're a good human. It's not like we hired any bad people, but it didn't fit. They just didn't click."

His correction inverts the usual founder instinct. He now trusts his gut less on talent and more on fit, on the theory that talent is legible from outside and fit is not.

"It's really hard to fake a career. I think careers do evidence talent ultimately," he said. "So I trust my gut less on the pure talent assessment, the skills assessment, but I trust my gut more on the fit assessment, and I try to be ruthless about that in the interview process."

He has taken the other bet, waving the fit question through because the resume was too good to pass up. It did not work. "You need both."

He was similarly wrong about where people should sit. Before the pandemic, as he later told Fortune, Thumbtack ran offices in San Francisco, Salt Lake City, and Manila, and he thought that was the correct way to build a company.

"I thought you went to work to do work. You put pants on and put your shoes on, you go to work. I was not very sympathetic to those who said that they worked better at home."

Then productivity went up. Per hour worked, he found the company more effective virtually than in the office, which he credits partly to a culture that was already deliberate, written, and explicit. He is equally direct that the same transactional quality that makes virtual work fast also makes it isolating, and that trust does not accumulate on its own. Thumbtack's answer is deliberate in-person time, a few days a quarter for some teams, which he says carries the rest of the year.

The company now runs virtual-first by design, across 39 states, two Canadian provinces, and the Philippines, with core collaboration hours from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Pacific instead of a mandated location. Zappacosta predicted on the CEO.com Podcast that most companies with more than 500 employees would end up there. He has not softened it. He told Fortune that office mandates are a holdover from industrial-era norms, and that remote work mostly exposes management gaps that returning to the office hides again. Thumbtack's careers page now states the position flatly: it is not planning a return to the office.

Distributed hiring did not insulate the company from the rest of the industry's decade. Fortune reported in that same piece that Thumbtack cut 30 percent of its staff in March 2020 and another 14 percent in December 2022.

He stayed in the Bay Area anyway. It is home, and the technical talent is still concentrated there.

On going public, he hasn't announced anything and still hasn't. Thumbtack raised $275 million at a $3.2 billion valuation in 2021 and remains private, with revenue reported at roughly $400 million for fiscal 2024. "I'm glad we're not public right now," he said, and then made the larger point about what the markets had been signaling for a year: not growth at all costs, but profitable growth. "In some sense, the meat and potato stuff, there's no surprise in what they're looking for. It's bread and butter, good business."

The AI answer

Asked how artificial intelligence would change his business, Zappacosta started with a definition instead of a forecast. Software, historically, is a person telling a machine exactly what to do, one explicit conditional at a time.

"What this first machine learning and now AI world has changed is that you don't tell the computer what to do. You create a way for it to learn what to do. So you now have systems that are extracting wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence from the world around them and then able to apply that back. That's magical."

His test for where to use it was one sentence. "If I could apply more intelligence, more thoughtfulness, more wisdom, what could I make better? Man, you can make a list a mile long for any company."

Three years later, the list became the roadmap. On April 30, 2026, Thumbtack replaced search with an AI-guided experience, letting homeowners describe a problem in text, photos, or voice and having the system scope the job and explain why a given pro fits it. A week earlier, the company had put its marketplace inside Anthropic's Claude, so that a question about a leak can end in a hire.

Speaking on the NEW ECONOMIES podcast in August 2026, Zappacosta said about half the product team is now rebuilding around AI, touching matching, pricing, refunds, and monetization rather than bolting a feature on top. He also named the competitor he actually worries about, and it is not Angi or Yelp. It is word of mouth, which still routes something like 80 percent of home services demand through a call to a neighbor or a post in a group chat.

Which is the same problem he described in 2008, in the same market, still unsolved.

Thumbtack was founded in the same six-to 12-month window that produced Uber and Airbnb, and he has never stopped measuring against that. Asked when he knew it had worked, he declined the question. He can name the moments the company leveled up: the angel round, Sequoia, the first real executives. None of them count.

"I have not gotten to the point where I feel like, yeah, we've made it or done it. I hear people say, hey, just get an Uber. Uber it. I would like Thumbtack to be a verb."

The ambition underneath is larger than an app, and he states it plainly. Mediating the exchange of time for money is one of the oldest transactions there is, and it has run on almost no technology at all.

"We're going to look back on that and say, wow, those were the stone ages. I couldn't easily find and access all the amazing people in my community and all their talents to make my life richer and their lives richer at the click of a button. What a poor, worse world to be part of."

The chance he was given

Every CEO.com Podcast conversation ends the same way, on the premise that the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes.

Zappacosta's answer is Bill Campbell, the executive coach later immortalized as the trillion-dollar coach, who had been a football coach at Columbia. Before all of that, in his spare time, Campbell coached eighth-grade flag football. Zappacosta was on the team.

They stayed in touch. Zappacosta ended up at Campbell's alma mater. Sometime around 2008, possibly before the company formally existed, he called and pitched him on an eBay for services. It ran 15 or 20 minutes.

"Hey look, I wasn't sure what you were going to pitch me on today," Campbell told him at the end. "I honestly wasn't expecting it to be something that I thought could be exciting, but you should hear this. I think this could be something. If you can get this to work, I believe it could be something."

"Having somebody who knows what they're talking about and has seen greatness and seen success call that out early on was very lucky and obviously very memorable," Zappacosta said.

He is 18 years into getting it to work. Thumbtack now serves homeowners through some 300,000 local service businesses and has passed 15 million five-star projects, which by his own accounting is not yet the thing.

00:00:00 Introducing Marco Zappacosta
00:02:00 Students for Saving Social Security
00:06:25 Spotting the Opportunity in Local Services
00:09:51 Building the First Version of Thumbtack
00:12:05 Solving the Chicken and Egg Problem
00:15:14 Naming Thumbtack and Raising Money
00:17:13 Early Angel Investors and Their Impact
00:22:14 Knowing When Thumbtack Had Traction
00:24:04 Expanding Beyond Home Services
00:26:30 Scaling the Team and Hiring for Values
00:32:14 Staying Rooted in Silicon Valley
00:34:22 Going Virtual First During COVID
00:37:09 IPO Versus Staying Private
00:41:49 How AI Will Transform Thumbtack
00:44:43 The Coach Who Believed in Him First

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Yeah,<00:02:43.280> I<00:02:43.296> mean,<00:02:43.681> look,<00:02:44.099> getting<00:02:44.340> into<00:02:44.565> pension<00:02:44.967> reform<00:02:45.786> as<00:02:45.883> a<00:02:45.947> 20-year-old<00:02:46.510> is<00:02:46.590> not<00:02:47.152> normal,<00:02:47.778> uh,<00:02:48.114> and<00:02:48.259> I<00:02:48.339> recognize<00:02:48.756> that.

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But,<00:02:49.703> you<00:02:49.735> know,<00:02:49.815> the<00:02:49.895> story<00:02:50.184> is<00:02:50.360> basically<00:02:50.922> I<00:02:51.066> went<00:02:51.162> to<00:02:51.307> college<00:02:52.430> thinking<00:02:52.702> I<00:02:52.734> was<00:02:52.863> going<00:02:52.991> to<00:02:53.087> be<00:02:53.745> a<00:02:53.809> research<00:02:54.130> scientist,<00:02:55.253> a<00:02:55.269> neuroscientist.

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I<00:02:56.697> studied<00:02:57.098> it,<00:02:57.900> I<00:02:58.044> went<00:02:58.205> to<00:02:58.301> go<00:02:58.525> work<00:02:58.766> in<00:02:58.846> a<00:02:59.007> lab,<00:03:00.049> and<00:03:00.210> then<00:03:00.466> I<00:03:00.547> realized<00:03:01.253> that<00:03:01.830> it<00:03:01.894> was<00:03:02.071> not<00:03:02.311> the<00:03:02.391> life<00:03:02.536> for<00:03:02.728> me,<00:03:03.178> that<00:03:03.418> the<00:03:03.498> subject<00:03:03.915> was<00:03:04.028> super<00:03:04.252> interesting<00:03:04.637> but<00:03:04.862> the<00:03:05.263> work<00:03:05.584> was<00:03:05.760> not.

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And<00:03:06.642> so<00:03:06.723> I<00:03:06.803> kind<00:03:07.027> of<00:03:07.124> like<00:03:08.551> was<00:03:08.792> a<00:03:08.888> little<00:03:09.209> adrift<00:03:09.755> in<00:03:09.851> some<00:03:10.075> sense,<00:03:10.476> or,<00:03:10.974> you<00:03:11.054> know,<00:03:11.375> the<00:03:11.471> story<00:03:12.000> I<00:03:12.177> told<00:03:12.417> myself<00:03:12.883> was<00:03:13.059> no<00:03:13.203> longer<00:03:13.524> true.

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Um,<00:03:15.403> so<00:03:15.531> I<00:03:15.628> just<00:03:15.788> sort<00:03:15.965> of<00:03:16.110> pursued<00:03:16.591> random<00:03:17.475> passions,<00:03:18.117> and<00:03:18.278> one<00:03:18.454> of<00:03:18.583> them<00:03:19.081> admittedly<00:03:19.804> was,<00:03:20.430> uh,<00:03:21.265> Social<00:03:21.522> Security<00:03:21.972> reform.

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And<00:03:23.160> I<00:03:23.401> wrote<00:03:23.594> some<00:03:23.899> op-eds<00:03:24.445> for<00:03:24.574> my<00:03:25.682> student<00:03:26.019> newspaper<00:03:26.469> about<00:03:26.774> it,<00:03:27.015> which<00:03:27.416> I<00:03:27.497> admit<00:03:28.059> a<00:03:28.380> little<00:03:28.958> sheepishly.

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Um,<00:03:31.592> and<00:03:31.769> because<00:03:32.331> of<00:03:32.411> that,<00:03:32.958> I<00:03:33.054> was<00:03:33.279> connected<00:03:33.921> with<00:03:34.483> who<00:03:34.580> became<00:03:35.045> my<00:03:35.768> future<00:03:36.025> co-founder.

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And<00:03:36.973> turns<00:03:37.214> out,<00:03:37.455> you<00:03:37.487> know,<00:03:37.696> he<00:03:37.776> was<00:03:37.872> almost<00:03:38.418> even<00:03:38.739> more<00:03:39.013> nerdy<00:03:39.318> about<00:03:39.559> this<00:03:39.799> because<00:03:40.105> he<00:03:40.330> started<00:03:41.083> this<00:03:41.163> student<00:03:41.547> advocacy<00:03:42.028> group<00:03:42.605> that<00:03:42.749> then<00:03:42.909> I<00:03:43.246> then<00:03:43.470> joined,<00:03:43.887> and<00:03:44.031> we<00:03:44.127> both<00:03:44.448> took<00:03:44.608> some<00:03:44.768> time<00:03:45.025> off<00:03:45.169> from<00:03:45.409> college<00:03:45.890> to<00:03:45.970> build.

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And,<00:03:47.252> you<00:03:47.492> know,<00:03:47.829> that's<00:03:48.037> sort<00:03:48.197> of<00:03:48.294> where<00:03:49.095> we<00:03:49.239> came<00:03:49.415> to<00:03:49.479> appreciate<00:03:50.201> how<00:03:50.361> fun<00:03:50.681> it<00:03:50.777> is<00:03:51.018> to<00:03:51.178> build<00:03:51.354> something<00:03:52.684> out<00:03:52.780> of<00:03:52.813> nothing,<00:03:53.261> right,<00:03:53.566> and<00:03:53.646> rally<00:03:53.982> people<00:03:54.223> around<00:03:54.479> a<00:03:54.527> shared<00:03:54.848> dream.

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And<00:03:55.921> so<00:03:56.787> from<00:03:57.267> there,<00:03:58.069> we<00:03:58.149> sort<00:03:58.373> of<00:03:58.405> said,<00:03:58.950> let's<00:03:59.190> do<00:03:59.350> it<00:03:59.431> again.

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But<00:04:00.857> at<00:04:00.953> that<00:04:01.049> point,<00:04:01.450> sort<00:04:01.594> of<00:04:01.738> realized<00:04:02.155> that,<00:04:03.020> uh,<00:04:03.837> sort<00:04:03.965> of<00:04:03.998> the<00:04:04.142> political<00:04:04.542> world<00:04:04.959> was<00:04:05.119> not<00:04:05.279> the<00:04:05.360> one<00:04:05.520> we<00:04:05.600> wanted<00:04:05.840> to<00:04:05.920> be<00:04:06.081> in,<00:04:06.225> as<00:04:06.610> You<00:04:06.674> have<00:04:06.802> no<00:04:07.026> agency.

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Uh,<00:04:07.924> the<00:04:08.004> forces<00:04:08.421> are<00:04:08.485> much<00:04:08.726> bigger<00:04:09.030> than<00:04:09.190> any<00:04:09.351> one<00:04:09.527> person<00:04:09.864> or<00:04:10.088> org.

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And<00:04:10.906> instead,<00:04:11.916> you<00:04:11.948> know,<00:04:11.996> if<00:04:12.156> we<00:04:12.252> built<00:04:12.493> a<00:04:12.509> technology<00:04:13.054> company,<00:04:13.839> we<00:04:13.936> could<00:04:14.016> aspire<00:04:14.577> to<00:04:14.721> have,<00:04:15.619> you<00:04:15.715> know,<00:04:15.795> similar<00:04:16.196> impact,<00:04:17.142> but<00:04:17.318> have<00:04:17.527> much<00:04:17.783> more<00:04:17.943> sort<00:04:18.104> of<00:04:18.328> agency<00:04:18.745> and<00:04:18.889> control<00:04:20.011> in<00:04:20.412> getting<00:04:20.653> there.

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So<00:04:22.111> that's<00:04:22.336> what<00:04:22.416> we<00:04:22.512> went<00:04:22.737> out<00:04:22.897> to<00:04:22.993> do.

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What<00:04:24.019> did<00:04:24.179> you<00:04:24.420> learn,<00:04:25.302> like<00:04:25.638> in<00:04:25.734> your<00:04:25.863> time<00:04:26.119> in<00:04:26.263> Washington,<00:04:26.600> DC<00:04:27.386> and<00:04:27.642> working<00:04:27.979> in<00:04:28.043> the<00:04:28.187> political<00:04:28.588> world?

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Because<00:04:29.165> like,<00:04:29.389> like<00:04:29.550> you<00:04:29.582> said,<00:04:29.806> my<00:04:29.951> experience<00:04:30.287> of<00:04:30.351> that<00:04:30.672> as<00:04:30.848> well<00:04:31.057> is<00:04:31.153> like,<00:04:31.313> that's<00:04:31.474> completely<00:04:31.954> different.

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And<00:04:33.174> you<00:04:33.334> can<00:04:33.559> work<00:04:33.752> for<00:04:33.912> like<00:04:34.137> 3<00:04:34.362> years<00:04:34.683> on<00:04:34.779> something<00:04:35.244> and<00:04:35.325> then<00:04:35.822> somebody<00:04:36.079> makes<00:04:36.320> a<00:04:36.384> decision<00:04:36.866> that<00:04:37.010> you<00:04:37.106> didn't<00:04:37.267> even<00:04:37.427> know<00:04:37.652> existed<00:04:38.150> and<00:04:38.615> that<00:04:38.856> 3<00:04:39.017> years<00:04:39.273> is<00:04:39.434> no<00:04:39.530> longer<00:04:40.477> relevant.

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Yeah,<00:04:41.842> right.

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Like,<00:04:42.805> they<00:04:42.965> just—<00:04:43.286> it<00:04:43.447> just<00:04:43.672> goes<00:04:43.928> in<00:04:44.025> a<00:04:44.089> different<00:04:44.394> direction.

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It's<00:04:45.052> really<00:04:45.293> fascinating<00:04:46.577> how,<00:04:47.283> um,<00:04:47.636> slow<00:04:47.957> it<00:04:48.086> goes<00:04:48.583> and<00:04:48.888> how<00:04:49.209> quickly<00:04:49.627> it<00:04:49.707> can<00:04:49.867> change<00:04:50.333> at<00:04:50.429> the<00:04:50.510> same<00:04:50.750> time.

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But<00:04:51.649> I'm<00:04:51.778> wondering<00:04:51.970> like<00:04:52.115> what<00:04:52.275> your<00:04:52.500> experience<00:04:53.238> is<00:04:53.624> with<00:04:53.880> Social<00:04:54.185> Security<00:04:54.763> and<00:04:54.908> how<00:04:55.148> you<00:04:55.309> think,<00:04:56.513> um,<00:04:56.914> you<00:04:57.010> shape<00:04:57.492> the<00:04:57.572> debate<00:04:58.375> and<00:04:58.696> where<00:04:58.792> do<00:04:58.840> you<00:04:58.937> think<00:04:59.161> we're<00:04:59.402> at<00:04:59.643> even<00:04:59.964> currently?

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Well,<00:05:01.169> I<00:05:01.185> don't<00:05:01.442> know<00:05:01.731> where<00:05:02.053> things<00:05:02.245> are<00:05:02.374> at<00:05:02.470> at<00:05:02.551> this<00:05:02.711> point,<00:05:03.097> uh,<00:05:03.981> but<00:05:04.383> you<00:05:04.415> know,<00:05:04.560> look,<00:05:04.961> my<00:05:05.186> takeaway<00:05:05.604> was<00:05:05.765> twofold.

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Uh,<00:05:06.874> one,<00:05:07.195> it<00:05:07.275> was<00:05:07.774> what<00:05:07.934> you<00:05:07.999> mentioned,<00:05:08.336> that<00:05:09.043> it's<00:05:09.204> a<00:05:09.365> world<00:05:09.622> where<00:05:10.577> you<00:05:10.674> really<00:05:10.901> have<00:05:11.079> no<00:05:11.224> agency<00:05:11.645> unless<00:05:12.276> you<00:05:12.357> have<00:05:12.535> a<00:05:12.600> whole<00:05:12.762> lot<00:05:12.875> of<00:05:12.940> power,<00:05:13.409> which<00:05:13.587> is<00:05:13.668> pretty<00:05:13.976> rare.

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Um,<00:05:15.772> and<00:05:15.853> then<00:05:16.015> two,<00:05:16.258> and<00:05:16.355> maybe<00:05:16.646> I<00:05:16.663> think<00:05:16.905> more<00:05:17.002> importantly,<00:05:19.224> was<00:05:19.385> that<00:05:19.610> like<00:05:20.607> our<00:05:20.736> intuition<00:05:21.396> was<00:05:21.701> right<00:05:22.200> in—<00:05:22.667> and<00:05:22.924> you<00:05:22.988> know,<00:05:23.085> we<00:05:23.165> signed<00:05:23.487> up<00:05:23.712> 13,000<00:05:24.613> students<00:05:25.257> across<00:05:25.643> the<00:05:25.723> country,<00:05:25.981> like<00:05:27.004> when<00:05:27.164> we<00:05:27.309> talked<00:05:27.550> to<00:05:27.630> people<00:05:27.839> originally,<00:05:28.593> nobody<00:05:29.075> thought<00:05:29.557> that<00:05:29.797> there<00:05:29.894> was<00:05:30.199> going<00:05:30.375> to<00:05:30.456> be<00:05:30.761> any<00:05:31.821> interest<00:05:32.607> in<00:05:32.704> this<00:05:33.185> among<00:05:33.812> young<00:05:33.988> people.

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And<00:05:35.674> our<00:05:36.156> perspective<00:05:36.718> was<00:05:36.766> like,<00:05:37.280> why<00:05:37.505> aren't<00:05:38.709> they<00:05:38.950> actually<00:05:40.475> the<00:05:40.539> most<00:05:40.909> important<00:05:41.599> constituency<00:05:42.643> here?

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In<00:05:43.140> that<00:05:43.478> sort<00:05:43.638> of<00:05:43.767> retirees<00:05:44.907> are<00:05:44.971> going<00:05:45.051> to<00:05:45.083> be<00:05:45.228> taken<00:05:45.453> care<00:05:45.710> of.

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And<00:05:46.609> so<00:05:47.155> whether<00:05:47.556> we<00:05:47.701> amend<00:05:48.022> things<00:05:48.279> to<00:05:48.359> be<00:05:48.519> better<00:05:48.921> or<00:05:49.081> worse<00:05:49.724> will<00:05:50.848> be<00:05:52.277> born<00:05:52.694> by<00:05:53.320> young<00:05:53.561> people<00:05:53.818> today<00:05:54.220> and<00:05:54.380> future<00:05:54.782> people<00:05:55.360> in<00:05:55.424> the<00:05:55.504> future.

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And<00:05:56.050> so<00:05:57.415> with<00:05:57.575> that<00:05:57.752> intuition,<00:05:58.378> we<00:05:58.458> sort<00:05:58.635> of<00:05:58.780> went<00:05:58.972> forth<00:05:59.582> and<00:06:00.626> that<00:06:00.787> worked<00:06:01.124> and<00:06:01.220> it<00:06:01.349> resonated.

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And<00:06:02.184> so<00:06:02.553> I<00:06:02.633> think<00:06:02.874> that<00:06:03.051> was<00:06:03.227> something<00:06:03.773> that,<00:06:04.094> you<00:06:04.175> know,<00:06:04.239> I<00:06:04.576> think<00:06:04.737> we've<00:06:04.961> made<00:06:05.138> it<00:06:05.379> an<00:06:05.459> explicit<00:06:05.941> takeaway,<00:06:06.342> but<00:06:07.065> I<00:06:07.209> think<00:06:07.370> it<00:06:07.450> gave<00:06:07.627> us<00:06:07.771> confidence<00:06:08.221> to<00:06:08.430> sort<00:06:08.670> of<00:06:09.136> go<00:06:09.313> lean<00:06:09.554> into<00:06:09.811> that<00:06:10.019> again.

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And<00:06:10.662> what<00:06:10.822> led<00:06:10.999> you<00:06:11.143> to<00:06:11.256> like—<00:06:11.866> obviously<00:06:12.669> you<00:06:12.701> met<00:06:12.909> your<00:06:13.166> co-founder<00:06:13.793> through<00:06:14.033> the<00:06:14.290> Students<00:06:15.334> for<00:06:15.495> Saving<00:06:15.976> Social<00:06:16.121> Security.

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Um,<00:06:17.742> but<00:06:17.966> what<00:06:18.207> led<00:06:18.383> you<00:06:18.528> to,<00:06:19.089> to<00:06:19.602> spin<00:06:20.050> off,<00:06:20.628> or<00:06:20.772> not<00:06:20.948> really<00:06:21.044> spin<00:06:21.333> off,<00:06:21.429> but<00:06:21.589> create<00:06:22.936> an<00:06:23.337> online<00:06:23.738> marketplace<00:06:24.395> company?

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Yeah,<00:06:25.373> so<00:06:26.559> look,<00:06:26.783> the,<00:06:27.425> the<00:06:27.505> motivation<00:06:28.306> after<00:06:29.621> our<00:06:29.781> sort<00:06:30.022> of<00:06:30.166> college<00:06:30.567> adventure<00:06:31.368> in<00:06:31.529> DC<00:06:32.731> was<00:06:33.212> to<00:06:33.356> start<00:06:34.013> a<00:06:34.174> technology<00:06:34.975> business,<00:06:35.841> and<00:06:36.883> the<00:06:36.963> motivation<00:06:37.701> was<00:06:37.925> to<00:06:38.037> solve<00:06:38.422> the<00:06:38.582> biggest<00:06:38.903> problem<00:06:39.464> we<00:06:39.624> could<00:06:39.769> find,<00:06:40.650> and<00:06:41.067> maybe<00:06:41.292> most<00:06:41.532> importantly,<00:06:42.013> solve<00:06:42.269> something<00:06:42.670> that<00:06:42.830> felt<00:06:43.697> like<00:06:43.873> it<00:06:43.938> was<00:06:44.098> going<00:06:44.339> to<00:06:44.580> inevitably<00:06:45.318> going<00:06:45.559> to<00:06:45.704> be<00:06:45.816> solved,<00:06:46.667> right?

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There<00:06:46.892> are<00:06:46.924> a<00:06:46.940> lot<00:06:47.085> of<00:06:47.550> things<00:06:47.807> out<00:06:47.952> there<00:06:48.209> that<00:06:48.931> are<00:06:49.011> big<00:06:49.172> problems<00:06:49.975> that<00:06:50.135> are<00:06:50.216> sort<00:06:50.457> of<00:06:51.099> way<00:06:51.484> out<00:06:51.597> of<00:06:51.677> our<00:06:52.688> capability<00:06:53.331> or<00:06:53.604> humanity's<00:06:54.230> capability<00:06:55.033> to<00:06:55.177> fix.

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And<00:06:56.060> so<00:06:56.157> we<00:06:56.189> didn't<00:06:56.638> bother<00:06:56.943> with<00:06:57.104> those.

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And<00:06:57.730> it<00:06:57.762> was<00:06:58.067> the<00:06:58.148> much<00:06:58.405> more<00:06:58.629> basic,<00:06:58.983> like,<00:06:59.143> hey,<00:06:59.352> what's<00:06:59.593> something<00:06:59.930> broken<00:07:00.572> today<00:07:00.974> that<00:07:01.134> feels<00:07:01.536> like<00:07:02.162> technology<00:07:02.724> is<00:07:02.884> going<00:07:03.061> to<00:07:03.222> inevitably<00:07:03.784> solve?

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And,<00:07:05.068> you<00:07:05.148> know,<00:07:05.213> this<00:07:05.389> was<00:07:05.566> a<00:07:05.630> time,<00:07:06.513> 2007,<00:07:07.396> 2008,<00:07:08.199> where<00:07:09.066> e-commerce<00:07:09.868> had<00:07:09.980> already<00:07:11.328> become<00:07:11.729> prominent,<00:07:12.307> especially<00:07:13.173> being<00:07:13.414> sort<00:07:13.590> of<00:07:13.735> young.

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You're<00:07:14.697> like,<00:07:14.874> of<00:07:15.002> course<00:07:15.194> I'm<00:07:15.339> going<00:07:15.451> to<00:07:15.499> shop<00:07:15.820> for<00:07:16.205> all<00:07:16.301> this<00:07:16.382> sort<00:07:16.622> of<00:07:16.702> stuff<00:07:17.007> online.

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It's<00:07:18.050> better,<00:07:18.323> it's<00:07:18.547> easier,<00:07:18.868> it's<00:07:19.029> faster.

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Um,<00:07:21.660> and<00:07:21.756> then<00:07:21.997> when<00:07:22.141> you<00:07:22.221> went<00:07:22.382> to<00:07:22.494> sort<00:07:22.703> of<00:07:22.799> observe<00:07:23.280> sort<00:07:24.403> of<00:07:24.548> our<00:07:24.724> category,<00:07:25.269> the<00:07:25.366> local<00:07:25.606> service<00:07:26.007> industry,<00:07:26.794> hiring<00:07:27.130> a<00:07:27.211> painter,<00:07:27.692> a<00:07:27.772> plumber,<00:07:28.237> a<00:07:28.318> carpenter,<00:07:29.360> you<00:07:29.457> realize<00:07:29.858> that<00:07:30.002> that<00:07:30.163> experience<00:07:31.125> was<00:07:31.238> still<00:07:31.478> stuck<00:07:31.863> in<00:07:31.943> the<00:07:32.088> 20th<00:07:32.361> century.

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And<00:07:33.243> so,<00:07:34.109> you<00:07:34.189> know,<00:07:34.350> this<00:07:34.510> sort<00:07:34.687> of<00:07:35.393> dissonance<00:07:35.956> between<00:07:36.582> how<00:07:36.759> much<00:07:37.000> better<00:07:37.241> shopping<00:07:37.723> for<00:07:37.883> things<00:07:38.365> had<00:07:38.526> gotten<00:07:39.393> versus<00:07:39.956> how<00:07:40.277> antiquated<00:07:41.000> hiring<00:07:41.643> people<00:07:42.847> was<00:07:43.105> still<00:07:43.747> felt<00:07:44.133> like<00:07:44.888> something<00:07:45.338> that<00:07:45.514> was<00:07:45.675> going<00:07:45.916> to<00:07:46.077> inevitably<00:07:46.639> be<00:07:46.799> solved.

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And<00:07:48.004> that's—<00:07:48.486> that<00:07:48.647> motivated<00:07:49.129> us.

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And<00:07:49.948> especially<00:07:50.414> because<00:07:50.655> it's<00:07:50.800> something<00:07:51.057> that<00:07:51.635> applied<00:07:52.101> very<00:07:52.342> broadly.

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Um,<00:07:53.466> you<00:07:53.499> know,<00:07:53.627> you're<00:07:53.707> talking<00:07:53.868> about<00:07:54.029> something<00:07:54.350> that<00:07:55.137> every<00:07:55.394> busy<00:07:55.780> homeowner<00:07:56.342> has<00:07:56.599> felt,<00:07:56.985> that<00:07:57.563> most<00:07:57.965> local<00:07:58.350> pros<00:07:58.832> feel.

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And<00:07:59.748> if<00:07:59.893> we<00:08:00.037> could<00:08:00.374> solve<00:08:00.776> these<00:08:01.017> problems<00:08:01.563> for<00:08:01.676> them<00:08:02.607> we<00:08:02.704> could<00:08:02.816> make<00:08:03.009> a<00:08:03.041> big<00:08:03.201> impact<00:08:03.747> and<00:08:03.828> build<00:08:04.004> a<00:08:04.068> big<00:08:04.229> business.

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And<00:08:05.497> yeah,<00:08:05.674> that's<00:08:05.835> what<00:08:05.979> we<00:08:06.059> went<00:08:06.220> after.

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Yeah.

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How<00:08:07.665> were<00:08:07.826> they—<00:08:08.243> how<00:08:08.564> would<00:08:08.805> you<00:08:08.966> go<00:08:09.126> about<00:08:09.367> doing<00:08:09.672> that<00:08:09.993> in<00:08:10.090> 2007?

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Was<00:08:11.053> it<00:08:11.133> like<00:08:11.278> Craigslist?

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You<00:08:12.241> just<00:08:12.418> go<00:08:12.498> to<00:08:12.578> Craigslist<00:08:13.140> and<00:08:13.205> try<00:08:13.301> to<00:08:13.445> find<00:08:13.702> people,<00:08:14.248> maybe<00:08:14.505> like<00:08:14.666> a<00:08:14.810> local—<00:08:15.950> here,<00:08:16.352> here<00:08:16.512> in<00:08:16.593> the<00:08:16.673> state<00:08:16.849> of<00:08:16.978> Utah,<00:08:17.299> there's<00:08:17.476> like<00:08:17.636> this<00:08:18.439> local<00:08:18.824> news<00:08:19.017> station<00:08:19.386> that<00:08:19.451> has<00:08:19.515> like<00:08:19.708> classifieds<00:08:20.526> and<00:08:20.607> stuff.

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Like,<00:08:21.795> I<00:08:21.891> imagine<00:08:22.293> like<00:08:22.453> that's<00:08:22.694> how<00:08:22.919> you<00:08:23.015> did<00:08:23.256> it<00:08:23.577> back<00:08:23.882> then.

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You<00:08:25.167> got<00:08:25.343> it.

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It<00:08:25.568> was<00:08:25.729> directories<00:08:26.323> and<00:08:26.467> classified<00:08:27.110> sites.

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And<00:08:28.137> both<00:08:28.377> of<00:08:28.457> those<00:08:28.938> were<00:08:29.596> kind<00:08:29.820> of<00:08:30.301> inspired<00:08:31.119> by<00:08:31.344> offline<00:08:31.761> products,<00:08:32.386> right?

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The<00:08:33.124> classifieds<00:08:33.605> in<00:08:33.685> the<00:08:33.765> newspaper,<00:08:34.407> the<00:08:34.487> Yellow<00:08:34.727> Pages,<00:08:35.433> and<00:08:36.556> better<00:08:37.053> because<00:08:37.373> they<00:08:37.518> were<00:08:37.678> online,<00:08:38.736> but<00:08:38.881> they<00:08:38.977> hadn't<00:08:39.298> been<00:08:39.602> reinvented<00:08:41.142> or<00:08:41.302> reimagined<00:08:42.409> for<00:08:42.745> what<00:08:44.092> could<00:08:44.269> now<00:08:44.574> be<00:08:44.734> built.

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And<00:08:45.151> so<00:08:45.295> that<00:08:45.632> was<00:08:45.969> our<00:08:46.113> original<00:08:46.450> motivation.

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It's<00:08:47.107> like,<00:08:47.460> hey,<00:08:47.556> let's,<00:08:48.743> let's<00:08:48.919> build<00:08:49.160> something<00:08:49.465> that<00:08:49.625> was,<00:08:50.266> was<00:08:50.523> impossible<00:08:51.325> to<00:08:51.485> build<00:08:51.982> in<00:08:52.110> the<00:08:52.207> previous<00:08:52.688> sort<00:08:52.912> of<00:08:53.073> analog<00:08:53.490> world,<00:08:53.746> not<00:08:53.890> just<00:08:54.452> the<00:08:54.676> online<00:08:55.093> version<00:08:55.478> of<00:08:55.574> that<00:08:55.734> old<00:08:55.958> thing.

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And<00:08:56.856> that<00:08:57.337> really<00:08:57.577> focused<00:08:58.202> us<00:08:58.523> on<00:08:58.779> the<00:08:58.859> sort<00:08:59.084> of<00:08:59.196> importance<00:08:59.821> and<00:08:59.901> challenge<00:09:00.847> of<00:09:01.168> matchmaking.

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And,<00:09:03.171> you<00:09:03.251> know,<00:09:03.748> we<00:09:04.069> were<00:09:04.550> and<00:09:04.774> are<00:09:04.950> motivated<00:09:05.591> by<00:09:05.816> helping<00:09:06.152> customers<00:09:06.777> find<00:09:07.194> and<00:09:07.338> hire<00:09:08.300> the<00:09:08.396> right<00:09:08.717> pro<00:09:09.037> for<00:09:09.262> whatever<00:09:09.582> they<00:09:09.695> need<00:09:09.919> done.

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And<00:09:11.121> that<00:09:11.362> sort<00:09:11.618> of<00:09:12.067> active<00:09:12.628> matchmaking<00:09:13.525> is<00:09:13.606> something<00:09:14.086> that,<00:09:14.712> you<00:09:14.808> know,<00:09:14.888> we<00:09:14.968> spent<00:09:15.272> a<00:09:15.433> decade<00:09:15.850> plus<00:09:16.170> working<00:09:16.555> on<00:09:16.747> and<00:09:16.875> perfecting<00:09:17.516> and<00:09:18.334> sort<00:09:18.494> of<00:09:18.638> delivering<00:09:19.280> because<00:09:19.776> at<00:09:19.857> the<00:09:19.937> end<00:09:20.065> of<00:09:20.097> the<00:09:20.161> day,<00:09:20.353> that's<00:09:20.642> what<00:09:20.963> our<00:09:21.059> customers<00:09:21.604> and<00:09:21.700> pros<00:09:22.004> need<00:09:22.165> from<00:09:22.341> us.

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Customers<00:09:23.689> have<00:09:23.866> wants,<00:09:24.267> they<00:09:24.331> have<00:09:24.524> needs,<00:09:24.909> they<00:09:24.973> have<00:09:25.150> money<00:09:25.391> to<00:09:25.471> spend<00:09:25.792> on<00:09:25.937> it.

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They<00:09:26.531> simply<00:09:26.916> don't<00:09:27.157> know<00:09:27.702> who<00:09:27.783> to<00:09:27.879> hire<00:09:28.505> or<00:09:28.666> the<00:09:28.762> best<00:09:28.922> person<00:09:29.404> for<00:09:29.549> that<00:09:29.709> job.

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And<00:09:30.448> on<00:09:30.528> the<00:09:30.608> flip<00:09:30.785> side,<00:09:31.395> we've<00:09:31.491> got<00:09:31.587> a<00:09:31.652> bunch<00:09:31.828> of<00:09:31.892> pros<00:09:32.278> who<00:09:32.310> are<00:09:32.374> incredibly<00:09:32.856> talented<00:09:34.220> but<00:09:34.300> have<00:09:34.445> schedules<00:09:35.504> that<00:09:35.601> aren't<00:09:35.890> completely<00:09:36.307> full.

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They're<00:09:37.190> motivated<00:09:37.913> to<00:09:38.009> meet<00:09:38.298> new<00:09:38.394> customers<00:09:38.876> so<00:09:39.036> that<00:09:39.197> they<00:09:39.277> can<00:09:39.438> grow<00:09:39.598> their<00:09:39.759> business.

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And<00:09:41.187> we<00:09:41.284> saw<00:09:41.508> ourselves<00:09:42.713> as<00:09:42.969> sort<00:09:43.194> of<00:09:43.307> the<00:09:43.435> first<00:09:44.639> sort<00:09:44.751> of<00:09:44.880> truly<00:09:45.377> digital<00:09:46.100> and<00:09:46.244> technology-driven<00:09:48.171> matchmaker<00:09:48.668> solution<00:09:49.134> for<00:09:49.262> that.

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And<00:09:50.017> we've<00:09:50.113> been<00:09:50.274> building<00:09:50.579> it<00:09:50.917> ever<00:09:51.077> since.

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What<00:09:52.057> did<00:09:52.266> the<00:09:52.459> first<00:09:52.924> version<00:09:53.262> of<00:09:53.406> the<00:09:53.486> product<00:09:53.984> look<00:09:54.129> like?

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Uh,<00:09:56.121> you<00:09:56.233> know,<00:09:56.442> you,<00:09:56.924> uh,<00:09:57.582> it<00:09:57.679> exists<00:09:58.144> in<00:09:58.225> the<00:09:58.369> Wayback<00:09:58.787> Machine,<00:09:59.510> or<00:09:59.574> it<00:09:59.670> did<00:09:59.831> at<00:09:59.911> one<00:10:00.072> point.

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I<00:10:00.329> saw<00:10:00.634> it.

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Um,<00:10:01.742> you<00:10:01.774> know,<00:10:01.919> look,<00:10:02.144> I<00:10:02.224> think<00:10:02.465> you'd<00:10:02.642> be—<00:10:03.766> you'd<00:10:03.927> get<00:10:04.151> it.

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Uh,<00:10:04.971> you'd<00:10:05.115> see<00:10:05.292> a<00:10:05.356> different<00:10:05.677> logo,<00:10:06.320> you<00:10:06.400> see<00:10:06.561> a<00:10:06.641> different<00:10:06.898> color<00:10:07.219> scheme.

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It's<00:10:08.087> more<00:10:08.424> orange<00:10:08.825> back<00:10:09.131> then.

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Uh,<00:10:11.138> it<00:10:11.235> has<00:10:11.476> more<00:10:11.572> skeuomorphism<00:10:12.841> to<00:10:13.002> the<00:10:13.146> UI.

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Uh,<00:10:14.993> but<00:10:15.314> what<00:10:15.491> you<00:10:15.571> would<00:10:15.732> see<00:10:15.989> in<00:10:16.118> it<00:10:16.439> is<00:10:16.599> this<00:10:16.840> core<00:10:17.081> idea<00:10:17.419> of<00:10:17.595> helping<00:10:18.442> help<00:10:18.462> homeowners<00:10:19.024> and<00:10:19.105> customers<00:10:19.747> find<00:10:20.164> and<00:10:20.293> hire<00:10:20.550> pros,<00:10:21.112> and<00:10:21.256> on<00:10:21.337> the<00:10:21.433> flip<00:10:21.610> side,<00:10:22.236> help<00:10:22.477> pros<00:10:23.039> gain<00:10:23.215> exposure<00:10:24.403> and<00:10:24.484> meet<00:10:24.644> more<00:10:24.805> customers<00:10:25.351> and<00:10:25.431> grow<00:10:25.592> their<00:10:25.688> business.

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And<00:10:26.234> that,<00:10:26.812> that<00:10:26.989> has<00:10:27.197> been<00:10:27.534> core<00:10:28.080> to<00:10:28.241> us<00:10:28.883> from<00:10:29.060> the<00:10:29.140> get-go.

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And,<00:10:30.425> you<00:10:30.489> know,<00:10:30.585> there's<00:10:30.890> a,<00:10:31.854> uh,<00:10:32.576> a<00:10:32.673> quote<00:10:33.138> that<00:10:34.118> supposedly<00:10:34.455> is<00:10:34.583> attributed<00:10:35.001> to<00:10:35.065> Jeff<00:10:35.242> Bezos,<00:10:35.643> which<00:10:35.868> I<00:10:36.028> really<00:10:36.205> like,<00:10:37.152> where<00:10:37.233> he<00:10:37.329> says,<00:10:38.116> you<00:10:38.196> know,<00:10:38.292> we're<00:10:38.405> stubborn<00:10:38.919> on<00:10:39.159> vision<00:10:39.481> and<00:10:39.641> flexible<00:10:40.203> on<00:10:40.299> strategy.

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And<00:10:41.488> I<00:10:41.584> think<00:10:42.130> you've<00:10:42.290> seen<00:10:42.531> us<00:10:42.708> do<00:10:42.852> that,<00:10:43.174> in<00:10:43.270> that<00:10:43.995> The<00:10:44.140> vision<00:10:44.480> or<00:10:44.642> the<00:10:44.788> aspiration,<00:10:45.759> um,<00:10:47.798> has<00:10:48.040> been<00:10:48.202> there<00:10:48.348> from<00:10:48.672> the<00:10:48.769> very<00:10:49.012> beginning.

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How<00:10:50.711> we've<00:10:50.889> solved<00:10:51.277> it,<00:10:51.666> you<00:10:51.698> know,<00:10:52.070> the<00:10:52.103> strategy<00:10:52.540> we've<00:10:52.734> pursued<00:10:53.705> to<00:10:53.851> deliver<00:10:54.191> for<00:10:54.304> our<00:10:54.499> customers<00:10:55.000> and<00:10:55.081> win<00:10:55.259> in<00:10:55.340> this<00:10:55.551> market<00:10:55.972> has<00:10:56.150> evolved<00:10:56.603> tremendously,<00:10:57.186> as<00:10:57.283> it<00:10:57.348> needed<00:10:57.591> to,<00:10:58.222> as<00:10:58.384> times<00:10:58.724> changed,<00:10:59.113> and<00:10:59.210> also<00:10:59.777> as<00:10:59.922> we<00:11:00.003> just<00:11:00.165> learned<00:11:00.408> how<00:11:00.440> to<00:11:00.586> do<00:11:00.748> this.

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Yeah.

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Were<00:11:02.200> you,<00:11:02.763> uh,<00:11:03.407> you<00:11:03.504> or<00:11:03.584> your<00:11:03.890> co-founder<00:11:04.389> technical,<00:11:04.953> or<00:11:05.033> did<00:11:05.194> you<00:11:05.355> go<00:11:06.144> hire<00:11:06.547> a<00:11:06.788> tech<00:11:07.046> team?

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Yeah.

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Did<00:11:07.835> you<00:11:07.867> go—<00:11:08.672> so<00:11:08.898> do<00:11:08.978> you<00:11:09.075> guys,<00:11:09.445> you<00:11:09.526> guys<00:11:09.703> coded<00:11:09.944> the<00:11:10.025> first<00:11:10.266> product?

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Yeah,<00:11:10.910> one<00:11:11.071> of<00:11:11.120> our<00:11:11.404> co-founders<00:11:12.224> was,<00:11:12.894> um,<00:11:13.696> very<00:11:13.952> technical,<00:11:14.657> um,<00:11:15.618> you<00:11:15.650> know,<00:11:15.714> kind<00:11:15.859> of<00:11:15.939> the<00:11:16.035> perfect<00:11:16.419> person<00:11:16.756> day<00:11:16.980> one<00:11:17.124> because<00:11:17.461> he<00:11:17.621> could<00:11:18.422> do<00:11:18.663> everything.

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And,<00:11:20.265> um,<00:11:21.242> sort<00:11:21.386> of<00:11:21.546> I<00:11:21.627> led<00:11:21.947> more<00:11:22.187> of<00:11:22.348> the,<00:11:22.828> the<00:11:23.309> product<00:11:23.581> side<00:11:23.966> and<00:11:24.110> he<00:11:24.206> led<00:11:24.447> more<00:11:24.671> of<00:11:24.767> the<00:11:24.847> engineering<00:11:25.328> side,<00:11:25.712> and<00:11:25.808> that's<00:11:27.555> how<00:11:27.651> we<00:11:27.731> got<00:11:27.955> it<00:11:28.051> to<00:11:28.132> market.

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Sorry<00:11:29.638> for<00:11:30.054> focusing<00:11:30.455> so<00:11:30.551> much<00:11:30.775> on<00:11:30.855> the<00:11:31.000> early<00:11:31.176> days,<00:11:31.416> but<00:11:31.496> I'm<00:11:31.656> fascinated<00:11:32.137> by<00:11:32.297> like,<00:11:32.762> uh,<00:11:33.179> direct-to-consumer,<00:11:34.925> um,<00:11:35.277> sites<00:11:35.726> like<00:11:35.886> yourself.

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I<00:11:36.703> mean,<00:11:36.944> there's<00:11:37.296> a<00:11:37.328> different<00:11:37.569> component<00:11:37.953> to<00:11:38.049> that<00:11:38.226> than<00:11:38.370> that,<00:11:39.091> in<00:11:39.187> how<00:11:39.491> you<00:11:39.668> gain<00:11:39.908> traction,<00:11:40.469> how<00:11:40.693> you<00:11:40.869> gain<00:11:41.254> credibility<00:11:42.776> and<00:11:42.841> how<00:11:43.338> you,<00:11:44.543> you<00:11:44.575> know,<00:11:44.783> just<00:11:45.121> drive<00:11:45.586> traffic<00:11:46.485> to<00:11:46.630> this,<00:11:46.983> to<00:11:47.128> the<00:11:47.224> site<00:11:47.754> at<00:11:47.915> that<00:11:48.236> time.

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Now<00:11:49.295> everyone<00:11:49.777> knows<00:11:50.034> you're<00:11:50.179> like,<00:11:50.435> yeah,<00:11:50.821> just<00:11:51.142> Thumbtack,<00:11:51.864> go<00:11:51.945> to<00:11:52.025> Thumbtack,<00:11:52.507> go<00:11:52.603> to,<00:11:52.812> you<00:11:52.844> know,<00:11:53.069> like,<00:11:53.711> but<00:11:54.514> that<00:11:54.739> wasn't<00:11:54.979> true<00:11:55.156> back<00:11:55.477> then.

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How<00:11:56.136> did<00:11:56.344> you<00:11:56.521> build<00:11:56.826> that?

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I<00:11:57.565> think<00:11:57.741> a<00:11:57.805> lot<00:11:57.966> of<00:11:58.046> people<00:11:58.191> would<00:11:58.303> find<00:11:58.512> that<00:11:58.672> fascinating.

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Yeah.

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I<00:11:59.491> mean,<00:12:00.134> the<00:12:00.278> question<00:12:00.599> gets<00:12:00.840> asked<00:12:01.033> a<00:12:01.097> lot<00:12:01.274> of<00:12:01.338> different<00:12:01.595> ways,<00:12:01.964> but<00:12:02.076> it's<00:12:02.285> sort<00:12:02.398> of<00:12:02.526> this<00:12:02.687> like<00:12:03.570> chicken<00:12:03.907> or<00:12:03.987> the<00:12:04.148> egg<00:12:04.308> problem,<00:12:04.710> right?

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Like<00:12:05.994> if<00:12:06.139> you<00:12:06.235> had<00:12:06.476> something,<00:12:06.877> people<00:12:07.182> would<00:12:07.359> come.

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But<00:12:08.708> you<00:12:08.788> don't<00:12:09.270> have<00:12:09.431> something,<00:12:09.848> so<00:12:09.993> people<00:12:10.170> aren't<00:12:10.427> going<00:12:10.507> to<00:12:10.555> come.

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But<00:12:12.338> to,<00:12:13.286> uh,<00:12:14.089> have<00:12:14.571> to<00:12:14.988> build<00:12:15.149> something,<00:12:15.390> to<00:12:15.470> get<00:12:15.727> sort<00:12:15.888> of<00:12:16.193> your<00:12:16.434> pros<00:12:16.835> to<00:12:16.980> show<00:12:17.157> up<00:12:17.237> there,<00:12:17.382> you<00:12:17.414> need<00:12:17.558> customers.

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So<00:12:18.120> it's<00:12:18.249> like,<00:12:18.747> where<00:12:18.843> do<00:12:18.907> you<00:12:18.988> get<00:12:19.164> going?

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And<00:12:19.952> what<00:12:20.128> you<00:12:20.225> see<00:12:20.931> is<00:12:21.558> marketplaces<00:12:22.297> typically<00:12:22.714> start<00:12:23.180> with<00:12:23.325> the<00:12:23.405> supply<00:12:23.758> side,<00:12:25.011> um,<00:12:25.734> as<00:12:25.991> did<00:12:26.232> we.

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And<00:12:27.581> the<00:12:27.758> reason<00:12:28.143> there<00:12:28.320> is<00:12:28.545> that,<00:12:29.027> you<00:12:29.059> know,<00:12:29.284> pros<00:12:29.846> and<00:12:30.263> suppliers<00:12:30.810> are<00:12:30.890> more<00:12:31.147> motivated<00:12:32.335> to<00:12:32.480> find<00:12:32.817> new<00:12:32.978> customers.

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It's<00:12:33.620> sort<00:12:34.102> what<00:12:34.262> they<00:12:34.407> do<00:12:34.647> all<00:12:34.808> day.

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They're<00:12:35.450> at<00:12:35.626> work,<00:12:36.348> and<00:12:36.444> so<00:12:36.589> they're<00:12:36.749> more<00:12:36.974> willing<00:12:37.230> to<00:12:37.375> try<00:12:37.631> new<00:12:37.792> things.

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Um,<00:12:39.300> and<00:12:39.380> then,<00:12:39.701> you<00:12:39.733> know,<00:12:39.877> we<00:12:39.973> employed<00:12:42.107> a<00:12:42.123> strategy<00:12:43.005> which<00:12:43.968> we,<00:12:44.513> we<00:12:44.674> called,<00:12:45.412> um,<00:12:46.198> helping<00:12:46.534> these<00:12:46.759> pros<00:12:47.096> find<00:12:47.417> sort<00:12:47.593> of<00:12:47.818> network-independent<00:12:49.085> value.

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You<00:12:49.839> know,<00:12:49.967> the<00:12:50.048> idea<00:12:50.304> being<00:12:50.481> is<00:12:50.625> we<00:12:50.705> didn't<00:12:50.930> have<00:12:51.090> a<00:12:51.106> network<00:12:51.427> day<00:12:51.588> one,<00:12:52.310> but<00:12:52.406> we<00:12:52.550> wanted<00:12:52.791> to<00:12:52.887> attract<00:12:53.272> them<00:12:53.433> to<00:12:53.529> the<00:12:53.593> platform.

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So<00:12:54.716> what<00:12:54.860> could<00:12:54.956> we<00:12:55.181> offer<00:12:55.502> them<00:12:55.983> that<00:12:56.240> was<00:12:56.641> valuable<00:12:57.748> without<00:12:58.887> being<00:12:59.127> this<00:12:59.304> network?

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And<00:12:59.833> what<00:12:59.913> we<00:13:00.010> came<00:13:00.170> up<00:13:00.314> with<00:13:00.892> was<00:13:01.358> a<00:13:01.534> tool<00:13:02.080> for<00:13:02.337> pros<00:13:02.818> to<00:13:03.043> repost<00:13:04.182> their<00:13:04.648> ad<00:13:05.290> on<00:13:05.530> Craigslist<00:13:06.092> because<00:13:06.894> Craigslist<00:13:07.231> made<00:13:07.456> it<00:13:07.649> sort<00:13:07.809> of<00:13:08.515> annoying,<00:13:09.157> or<00:13:09.719> any,<00:13:10.120> any<00:13:10.281> classified<00:13:10.843> site,<00:13:11.468> uh,<00:13:11.725> the<00:13:11.805> content<00:13:12.191> expires,<00:13:12.704> right?

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It's,<00:13:13.715> uh,<00:13:13.988> it's<00:13:14.197> a—<00:13:14.935> it<00:13:15.240> constantly<00:13:15.721> gets<00:13:15.898> refreshed.

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And<00:13:16.460> so<00:13:16.684> you<00:13:16.845> as<00:13:16.957> a<00:13:17.005> small<00:13:17.246> business<00:13:17.647> have<00:13:17.808> to<00:13:17.904> constantly<00:13:18.450> go<00:13:19.188> re-put<00:13:19.734> your<00:13:19.910> post<00:13:20.295> up,<00:13:20.456> which<00:13:20.632> is<00:13:21.018> laborious<00:13:21.820> and,<00:13:22.302> and<00:13:22.639> annoying.

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And<00:13:23.505> so<00:13:23.602> we<00:13:23.746> made<00:13:23.923> that<00:13:24.083> super<00:13:24.484> easy,<00:13:24.950> and<00:13:25.287> we<00:13:25.367> made<00:13:25.592> it<00:13:25.752> easy<00:13:25.993> for<00:13:26.121> them<00:13:26.410> to<00:13:27.373> post<00:13:27.759> an<00:13:28.080> HTML<00:13:28.578> version<00:13:28.963> with<00:13:29.124> pictures<00:13:29.541> and<00:13:29.621> reviews<00:13:30.023> and<00:13:30.167> all<00:13:30.264> the<00:13:30.344> good-looking<00:13:30.729> stuff.

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Um,<00:13:32.496> and<00:13:32.672> through<00:13:32.897> that,<00:13:33.298> we<00:13:33.379> were<00:13:33.475> able<00:13:33.716> to<00:13:33.812> attract<00:13:34.342> pros<00:13:35.547> to<00:13:35.707> the<00:13:35.787> platform.

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Um,<00:13:37.329> not<00:13:37.505> surprisingly,<00:13:38.132> we<00:13:38.228> attract<00:13:38.694> pros<00:13:39.240> who<00:13:39.898> we<00:13:40.219> saw<00:13:40.605> were<00:13:40.845> already<00:13:41.167> on<00:13:41.327> Craigslist,<00:13:41.809> and<00:13:42.307> this<00:13:42.451> sort<00:13:42.628> of<00:13:42.772> was<00:13:43.415> an<00:13:43.736> easier<00:13:44.137> way<00:13:44.314> of,<00:13:44.860> of<00:13:45.358> doing<00:13:45.598> what<00:13:45.743> they<00:13:45.903> were<00:13:46.000> already<00:13:46.241> doing.

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And<00:13:47.044> then<00:13:47.429> in<00:13:47.525> signing<00:13:47.927> up,<00:13:48.168> what<00:13:48.649> they<00:13:49.934> sort<00:13:50.159> of<00:13:50.496> helped<00:13:50.881> us<00:13:51.042> with<00:13:51.218> was<00:13:51.764> create<00:13:52.102> the<00:13:52.198> best<00:13:52.503> profiles<00:13:53.049> on<00:13:53.145> the<00:13:53.290> internet<00:13:53.772> for<00:13:54.012> these<00:13:54.189> businesses.

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Because<00:13:55.393> directories<00:13:56.660> had<00:13:56.756> a<00:13:56.772> lot<00:13:56.932> of<00:13:56.980> static,<00:13:57.654> uh,<00:13:57.959> sort<00:13:58.199> of<00:13:58.360> thin<00:13:58.760> content.

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Um,<00:14:00.204> these<00:14:00.364> folks<00:14:00.669> often<00:14:01.006> didn't<00:14:01.246> have<00:14:01.487> websites,<00:14:02.593> and<00:14:02.690> so<00:14:03.010> we<00:14:03.171> became<00:14:03.892> kind<00:14:04.133> of<00:14:04.357> the<00:14:04.919> best<00:14:05.239> content<00:14:05.961> on<00:14:06.057> the<00:14:06.202> internet<00:14:07.020> for,<00:14:08.062> you<00:14:08.158> know,<00:14:08.367> these<00:14:08.687> types<00:14:09.088> of<00:14:09.329> pros,<00:14:09.826> these<00:14:09.986> sort<00:14:10.227> of<00:14:10.708> small<00:14:11.767> service<00:14:12.216> professionals<00:14:12.873> and<00:14:13.017> service<00:14:13.354> companies.

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Um,<00:14:15.279> and<00:14:15.439> because<00:14:15.920> of<00:14:16.000> that<00:14:16.225> content,<00:14:16.802> we<00:14:16.946> then<00:14:17.123> began<00:14:18.085> to<00:14:18.229> attract<00:14:19.432> eyeballs<00:14:19.849> and<00:14:19.929> visitors<00:14:20.346> via<00:14:20.892> organic<00:14:21.228> search.

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And<00:14:22.415> then<00:14:22.640> over<00:14:22.880> time,<00:14:23.618> really,<00:14:23.842> as<00:14:24.003> the<00:14:24.259> consumer<00:14:24.724> experience<00:14:25.286> became<00:14:26.168> better<00:14:26.344> and<00:14:26.424> better,<00:14:27.290> we<00:14:27.450> leveraged<00:14:27.883> that<00:14:28.348> to<00:14:28.509> build<00:14:28.910> sort<00:14:29.150> of<00:14:29.230> a<00:14:29.311> direct<00:14:29.696> relationship<00:14:30.417> with<00:14:30.578> these<00:14:31.235> consumers.

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As<00:14:31.941> more<00:14:32.053> and<00:14:32.117> more<00:14:32.342> people<00:14:32.582> had<00:14:32.678> heard<00:14:32.903> of<00:14:32.999> us,<00:14:33.224> seen<00:14:33.480> us,<00:14:33.785> used<00:14:34.106> us,<00:14:34.266> had<00:14:34.426> friends<00:14:34.827> use<00:14:35.068> us,<00:14:35.870> um,<00:14:36.623> then<00:14:36.832> more<00:14:37.249> people<00:14:37.569> came<00:14:37.810> directly.

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And<00:14:38.852> that's<00:14:39.077> sort<00:14:39.269> of<00:14:39.333> something<00:14:39.654> that<00:14:39.879> we've<00:14:39.975> been<00:14:40.135> really<00:14:40.392> fighting<00:14:40.777> towards<00:14:41.162> because,<00:14:41.899> you<00:14:41.963> know,<00:14:42.060> you're<00:14:42.220> right,<00:14:42.685> um,<00:14:43.246> you<00:14:43.326> need<00:14:43.487> to<00:14:43.727> jump<00:14:43.920> start—<00:14:44.385> as<00:14:44.465> you're,<00:14:45.010> as<00:14:45.106> a<00:14:45.171> consumer<00:14:45.507> business,<00:14:45.908> typically<00:14:46.309> you<00:14:46.389> need<00:14:46.470> to<00:14:46.534> jump<00:14:46.726> start<00:14:47.015> it<00:14:47.576> off<00:14:47.753> of<00:14:47.849> something<00:14:48.556> bigger,<00:14:49.423> and<00:14:49.744> that's<00:14:50.145> sort<00:14:50.306> of<00:14:50.467> critical<00:14:51.109> to<00:14:51.269> get<00:14:52.153> going.

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But<00:14:53.694> if<00:14:53.838> you<00:14:54.015> just<00:14:54.336> stay<00:14:54.577> focused<00:14:55.059> on<00:14:55.203> that,<00:14:56.006> then<00:14:56.247> you<00:14:56.343> end<00:14:56.504> up<00:14:56.664> building<00:14:57.130> for<00:14:57.387> this<00:14:58.029> partner<00:14:58.655> rather<00:14:58.896> than<00:14:59.057> the<00:14:59.137> customer.

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And<00:15:00.181> so<00:15:00.293> at<00:15:00.357> some<00:15:00.598> point<00:15:00.919> you<00:15:00.984> have<00:15:01.080> to<00:15:01.225> say,<00:15:01.883> hey,<00:15:02.108> we're<00:15:02.284> going<00:15:02.381> to<00:15:02.445> get<00:15:02.670> past<00:15:02.991> this<00:15:03.489> and<00:15:04.372> build<00:15:04.548> a<00:15:04.612> direct<00:15:04.934> relationship,<00:15:05.720> um,<00:15:06.443> which<00:15:06.555> is<00:15:06.620> very<00:15:06.780> hard,<00:15:07.503> but<00:15:07.647> something<00:15:07.968> we've<00:15:08.065> been<00:15:08.723> sort<00:15:08.884> of<00:15:08.948> very<00:15:09.269> dedicated<00:15:09.751> to<00:15:10.393> for<00:15:10.553> a<00:15:10.569> long<00:15:10.794> time<00:15:10.955> now.

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How<00:15:11.613> did<00:15:11.822> you<00:15:11.902> come<00:15:12.063> up<00:15:12.159> with<00:15:12.304> the<00:15:12.336> name?

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I<00:15:14.981> married<00:15:15.593> well.

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My<00:15:18.493> wife<00:15:19.701> named<00:15:20.281> the<00:15:20.361> company<00:15:21.956> and<00:15:22.037> the<00:15:22.133> children,<00:15:22.939> and<00:15:23.084> I<00:15:23.164> think<00:15:23.326> anything<00:15:23.664> of<00:15:24.309> importance<00:15:24.857> that<00:15:25.018> we<00:15:25.099> do.

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So<00:15:26.389> yeah,<00:15:26.647> I<00:15:26.663> mean,<00:15:27.050> if<00:15:27.275> any<00:15:27.324> of<00:15:27.453> you<00:15:27.598> have<00:15:27.711> named<00:15:28.339> anything,<00:15:29.050> you<00:15:29.227> know<00:15:29.470> that<00:15:29.632> it<00:15:29.729> is<00:15:30.036> a—<00:15:31.007> it's<00:15:32.802> hard.

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You<00:15:33.514> have<00:15:33.853> to<00:15:33.950> be<00:15:34.015> very<00:15:34.193> sort<00:15:34.420> of<00:15:34.500> deliberate.

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And<00:15:35.002> so<00:15:35.164> we<00:15:35.244> had<00:15:35.730> spreadsheets<00:15:36.587> full<00:15:36.749> of<00:15:36.846> names.

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Then<00:15:37.985> you<00:15:38.018> have<00:15:38.134> to<00:15:38.200> go<00:15:38.382> see<00:15:38.614> if<00:15:38.713> you<00:15:38.796> can<00:15:38.962> buy<00:15:39.276> them<00:15:39.541> or<00:15:39.624> how<00:15:39.723> much<00:15:39.955> it<00:15:40.038> might<00:15:40.203> cost.

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What<00:15:43.150> they<00:15:43.246> sound<00:15:43.631> like<00:15:43.856> when<00:15:43.952> they're<00:15:44.113> pronounced<00:15:44.755> by<00:15:44.900> people<00:15:45.301> who<00:15:45.381> maybe<00:15:45.703> aren't<00:15:45.863> sort<00:15:46.040> of<00:15:46.120> native<00:15:46.361> English<00:15:46.618> speakers,<00:15:47.067> all<00:15:47.228> the<00:15:47.324> various<00:15:47.806> sort<00:15:47.983> of<00:15:48.127> things<00:15:48.368> that<00:15:48.448> go<00:15:48.609> into<00:15:48.705> naming.

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And<00:15:49.428> so<00:15:49.556> we<00:15:49.588> just<00:15:49.717> had<00:15:49.893> lists<00:15:50.198> and<00:15:50.279> lists<00:15:50.455> of<00:15:50.600> names.

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And<00:15:52.543> yes,<00:15:52.655> she<00:15:52.864> came<00:15:53.089> up<00:15:53.185> with<00:15:53.265> Thumbtack<00:15:53.747> and<00:15:53.811> we<00:15:53.907> loved<00:15:54.148> it.

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And<00:15:54.871> thankfully<00:15:55.192> it<00:15:55.256> was<00:15:55.369> available,<00:15:55.931> so<00:15:57.103> we<00:15:57.199> jumped<00:15:57.504> on<00:15:57.536> it.

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Uh,<00:15:58.387> at<00:15:58.468> what<00:15:58.644> point<00:15:58.805> did<00:15:58.901> you<00:15:58.981> start<00:15:59.286> thinking<00:15:59.704> about<00:16:00.153> raising<00:16:00.651> money?

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I<00:16:01.631> mean,<00:16:02.401> in<00:16:02.498> some<00:16:02.658> sense<00:16:03.124> from<00:16:03.301> the<00:16:03.381> very<00:16:03.622> beginning,<00:16:04.328> I<00:16:04.425> think,<00:16:05.051> uh,<00:16:06.897> venture<00:16:07.153> capital<00:16:08.356> in<00:16:08.436> some<00:16:08.613> sense<00:16:08.981> exists<00:16:09.895> to<00:16:10.024> fund<00:16:10.425> businesses<00:16:11.162> like<00:16:11.419> ours,<00:16:12.028> um,<00:16:13.087> which<00:16:13.327> have,<00:16:14.193> uh,<00:16:15.172> long<00:16:15.412> lead<00:16:15.637> times.

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They<00:16:16.214> have,<00:16:17.016> you<00:16:17.112> know,<00:16:17.497> big<00:16:17.898> fixed<00:16:18.299> cost<00:16:18.764> investments<00:16:19.485> required<00:16:20.544> to<00:16:20.704> begin<00:16:21.266> to<00:16:21.827> sort<00:16:22.003> of<00:16:22.388> get<00:16:22.564> to<00:16:22.693> scale<00:16:23.254> and<00:16:23.350> through<00:16:23.575> that<00:16:24.312> earn<00:16:25.275> sort<00:16:25.451> of<00:16:25.579> returns.

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Um,<00:16:27.520> so<00:16:28.466> growing<00:16:28.787> up<00:16:28.947> in<00:16:29.220> Silicon<00:16:29.605> Valley,<00:16:30.567> being<00:16:30.791> exposed<00:16:31.208> to<00:16:31.353> all<00:16:31.449> that,<00:16:31.850> I<00:16:31.866> think<00:16:32.154> was<00:16:33.919> very<00:16:34.080> fortunate<00:16:35.139> because<00:16:36.279> it<00:16:36.487> meant<00:16:36.808> that<00:16:37.145> we<00:16:37.370> could<00:16:38.413> take<00:16:38.574> advantage<00:16:38.927> of<00:16:39.232> it<00:16:39.392> and<00:16:39.553> raise<00:16:39.857> from<00:16:40.018> that<00:16:40.194> community<00:16:41.382> kind<00:16:42.104> of<00:16:42.136> from<00:16:42.281> the<00:16:42.361> get-go.

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So<00:16:42.923> day<00:16:43.147> one,<00:16:43.950> you<00:16:44.046> know,<00:16:44.126> it's<00:16:44.287> just<00:16:44.512> sort<00:16:44.688> of<00:16:45.153> friends<00:16:45.426> and<00:16:45.571> family<00:16:45.908> money,<00:16:46.309> right?

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They<00:16:46.774> say<00:16:46.935> friends,<00:16:47.256> families,<00:16:47.657> and<00:16:47.737> fools,<00:16:48.139> and<00:16:48.700> those<00:16:48.861> are<00:16:48.941> people<00:16:49.246> who<00:16:49.567> know<00:16:49.808> you<00:16:50.064> and<00:16:50.145> believe<00:16:50.401> in<00:16:50.546> you<00:16:51.172> and<00:16:51.814> for<00:16:51.974> whom<00:16:52.456> the<00:16:52.552> vision<00:16:53.098> sort<00:16:53.274> of<00:16:53.419> resonates.

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But<00:16:53.996> at<00:16:54.077> the<00:16:54.141> end<00:16:54.205> of<00:16:54.237> the<00:16:54.317> day,<00:16:54.799> they're<00:16:54.895> just<00:16:55.200> betting<00:16:55.505> on<00:16:55.585> the<00:16:55.681> people<00:16:55.986> they<00:16:56.083> know.

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Um,<00:16:57.607> and<00:16:57.671> so<00:16:57.752> we<00:16:57.848> raised<00:16:58.089> a<00:16:58.153> little<00:16:58.313> bit<00:16:58.426> of<00:16:58.474> money<00:16:59.052> that<00:16:59.292> way<00:17:00.158> and<00:17:00.318> then<00:17:00.719> sort<00:17:00.959> of<00:17:01.055> began<00:17:01.440> to<00:17:01.536> expand<00:17:02.001> out,<00:17:02.273> first<00:17:02.578> to<00:17:02.738> professional<00:17:03.363> angels,<00:17:04.341> then<00:17:04.742> to<00:17:05.062> professional<00:17:05.784> kind<00:17:05.944> of<00:17:05.976> seed<00:17:06.345> investors,<00:17:07.050> then,<00:17:07.627> you<00:17:07.723> know,<00:17:07.932> your<00:17:08.044> institutional<00:17:08.845> Series<00:17:09.294> A<00:17:09.390> investors<00:17:10.432> and<00:17:10.592> beyond.

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Um,<00:17:12.339> and<00:17:12.420> it's<00:17:12.580> kind<00:17:12.820> of—.

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Yeah,<00:17:14.119> I<00:17:14.199> believe<00:17:14.503> you,<00:17:14.824> uh,<00:17:15.385> didn't—<00:17:15.641> it<00:17:15.722> wasn't<00:17:15.946> one<00:17:16.058> of<00:17:16.106> your<00:17:16.202> first<00:17:16.507> angels,<00:17:16.924> Jason<00:17:17.244> Calacanis,<00:17:18.030> from,<00:17:18.286> from,<00:17:18.671> uh,<00:17:18.911> I<00:17:19.007> think<00:17:19.152> people<00:17:19.392> probably<00:17:19.729> know<00:17:19.905> him,<00:17:20.354> uh,<00:17:21.492> now<00:17:22.197> as<00:17:22.357> like<00:17:22.518> the<00:17:22.758> All<00:17:22.999> In<00:17:23.736> podcast<00:17:24.618> moderator<00:17:25.082> guy,<00:17:25.403> or<00:17:25.563> one<00:17:25.659> of<00:17:25.740> the—<00:17:25.884> one<00:17:25.996> of<00:17:26.060> those<00:17:26.285> four<00:17:26.461> folks.

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Oh<00:17:27.325> yeah,<00:17:27.806> um,<00:17:29.087> I<00:17:29.183> am<00:17:29.344> proud<00:17:29.648> to<00:17:29.728> have<00:17:30.465> Jason<00:17:30.866> as<00:17:31.026> an<00:17:31.122> investor.

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And<00:17:31.827> actually,<00:17:32.468> you<00:17:32.564> know,<00:17:32.708> give<00:17:32.756> him<00:17:32.804> a<00:17:32.868> lot<00:17:33.028> of<00:17:33.092> credit.

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Um,<00:17:34.166> so<00:17:34.374> this<00:17:34.566> is<00:17:34.710> now<00:17:35.736> 2010.

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This<00:17:37.754> is<00:17:38.075> pre<00:17:39.372> sort<00:17:39.661> of<00:17:39.901> the<00:17:40.862> angel<00:17:41.199> environment<00:17:41.903> we<00:17:42.000> have<00:17:42.320> today<00:17:42.785> where,<00:17:43.586> you<00:17:43.618> know,<00:17:44.002> angel<00:17:44.258> investment<00:17:44.691> has<00:17:44.803> become<00:17:45.188> kind<00:17:45.364> of<00:17:45.508> like<00:17:45.700> a<00:17:46.309> hobby<00:17:46.629> sport<00:17:47.126> in<00:17:47.222> Silicon<00:17:47.607> Valley.

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And,<00:17:48.632> you<00:17:48.728> know,<00:17:48.808> it<00:17:48.872> was<00:17:48.984> a<00:17:49.064> time<00:17:49.369> where<00:17:49.593> there<00:17:49.769> were<00:17:49.849> some<00:17:50.394> angel<00:17:50.650> forums,<00:17:51.211> but<00:17:51.932> they<00:17:52.012> often<00:17:52.317> charge<00:17:52.813> startups<00:17:53.454> to<00:17:53.598> get<00:17:53.758> into.

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Um,<00:17:54.736> the<00:17:54.880> Kairetsu<00:17:55.360> Forum<00:17:55.681> was<00:17:55.841> one<00:17:55.953> of<00:17:56.017> those,<00:17:56.802> and<00:17:56.978> Jason<00:17:57.363> was<00:17:57.603> pissed<00:17:57.844> off<00:17:58.020> about<00:17:58.324> that.

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And<00:17:59.047> he<00:17:59.111> was<00:17:59.175> like,<00:17:59.384> hey,<00:17:59.529> this<00:17:59.705> is<00:17:59.802> stupid.

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Why<00:18:00.572> are<00:18:00.669> we<00:18:00.813> charging<00:18:01.375> these<00:18:01.552> companies<00:18:01.921> $1,000<00:18:03.254> to<00:18:03.382> come<00:18:03.559> pitch?

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It's<00:18:03.960> insulting.

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Um,<00:18:05.486> we<00:18:05.566> should<00:18:06.032> curate<00:18:06.626> a<00:18:06.690> great<00:18:06.995> list<00:18:07.412> of<00:18:07.637> angels.

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I<00:18:08.601> will<00:18:08.761> then<00:18:10.158> take<00:18:10.447> applications<00:18:11.427> to<00:18:11.507> get<00:18:11.667> a<00:18:11.732> great<00:18:11.989> list<00:18:12.454> of<00:18:12.615> founders,<00:18:13.418> and<00:18:13.514> we're<00:18:13.658> gonna<00:18:13.723> have<00:18:13.835> a<00:18:13.867> great<00:18:14.060> night.

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Um,<00:18:15.441> and<00:18:15.521> to<00:18:15.666> his<00:18:15.906> credit,<00:18:16.629> um,<00:18:16.870> he<00:18:16.966> did.

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It<00:18:17.175> was<00:18:17.271> called<00:18:17.400> the<00:18:17.592> Open<00:18:17.833> Angel<00:18:18.090> Forum,<00:18:19.118> and<00:18:19.776> he<00:18:19.937> invested<00:18:20.483> in<00:18:20.723> Uber<00:18:21.366> out<00:18:21.446> of<00:18:21.478> that<00:18:22.008> and<00:18:22.185> Thumbtack,<00:18:23.292> and<00:18:24.417> You<00:18:24.449> know,<00:18:24.593> to<00:18:24.738> his<00:18:24.915> credit,<00:18:25.397> both<00:18:25.702> of<00:18:25.798> those<00:18:26.441> being<00:18:27.549> angel<00:18:27.807> rounds<00:18:28.272> were<00:18:28.369> done<00:18:28.610> at<00:18:28.706> a<00:18:28.754> $6<00:18:29.156> million<00:18:29.734> post,<00:18:30.939> right?

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That's<00:18:32.016> great.

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That<00:18:32.546> is<00:18:32.642> crazy.

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And<00:18:33.992> so,<00:18:34.619> um,<00:18:35.502> yeah,<00:18:35.904> just<00:18:36.081> super<00:18:36.386> savvy.

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And,<00:18:37.752> you<00:18:37.784> know,<00:18:37.848> I<00:18:37.928> think<00:18:38.089> he<00:18:38.234> saw<00:18:38.362> sort<00:18:39.455> of<00:18:39.615> this<00:18:40.001> opportunity<00:18:40.563> for<00:18:41.479> sort<00:18:41.688> of<00:18:41.945> a<00:18:41.961> more<00:18:42.347> democratized<00:18:43.696> angel<00:18:44.917> sector<00:18:45.463> market,<00:18:46.427> uh,<00:18:47.150> than<00:18:47.391> most.

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And,<00:18:48.355> and,<00:18:48.918> you<00:18:49.014> know,<00:18:49.078> I'm<00:18:49.255> very<00:18:49.480> thankful.

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It<00:18:50.123> really<00:18:50.444> helped<00:18:51.273> catapult<00:18:52.060> thumbtack<00:18:53.282> because<00:18:53.667> of<00:18:53.764> that<00:18:54.005> meeting.

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Jason<00:18:55.468> invested.

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Joshua<00:18:57.637> Schachter,<00:18:58.425> I<00:18:58.489> believe,<00:18:58.746> was<00:18:58.971> there<00:18:59.148> and<00:18:59.228> invested.

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Scott<00:19:00.853> and<00:19:00.903> Cyan<00:19:01.187> Bannister<00:19:02.105> invested.

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Naval<00:19:05.049> Ravikant<00:19:05.793> invested.

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All<00:19:07.233> out<00:19:07.346> of<00:19:07.476> that<00:19:07.831> initial<00:19:08.381> little<00:19:08.559> spark.

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Yeah.

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Wow,<00:19:10.836> Naval.

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That's<00:19:11.864> incredible.

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That's<00:19:12.893> very<00:19:13.134> cool.

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Yeah.

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So<00:19:14.821> thanks,<00:19:15.062> J-Cal.

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How<00:19:16.332> helpful<00:19:16.733> were<00:19:17.151> they?

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I<00:19:17.328> mean,<00:19:17.553> that's<00:19:17.955> an<00:19:18.019> incredible<00:19:19.305> list<00:19:19.564> of<00:19:19.717> angels<00:19:20.178> that<00:19:20.298> you<00:19:20.366> just<00:19:20.536> listed.

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I<00:19:23.019> mean,<00:19:23.308> were<00:19:23.469> you<00:19:23.629> able<00:19:23.902> to<00:19:24.031> lean<00:19:24.272> on<00:19:24.449> them<00:19:24.626> a<00:19:24.754> lot,<00:19:25.027> or<00:19:25.156> was<00:19:25.268> it<00:19:25.333> just<00:19:25.557> like<00:19:26.120> one<00:19:26.297> of<00:19:26.393> many<00:19:26.698> investments<00:19:27.180> that<00:19:27.325> they<00:19:27.421> were<00:19:27.582> doing?

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And<00:19:28.450> because<00:19:28.851> angel<00:19:29.076> investing<00:19:29.398> is<00:19:29.446> a<00:19:29.510> little<00:19:29.671> bit<00:19:29.832> different,<00:19:30.073> right?

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They<00:19:30.394> normally<00:19:30.651> don't<00:19:30.860> take<00:19:31.101> board<00:19:31.342> seats.

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They<00:19:31.937> normally<00:19:32.242> don't,<00:19:33.190> um,<00:19:33.833> you<00:19:33.865> know,<00:19:34.491> get<00:19:34.797> too<00:19:35.118> in-depth.

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They're<00:19:35.696> just<00:19:35.857> like,<00:19:36.098> let<00:19:36.259> us<00:19:36.484> know<00:19:36.886> if<00:19:36.982> it<00:19:37.127> works<00:19:37.448> out<00:19:37.705> type<00:19:37.946> of<00:19:38.042> a<00:19:38.107> thing.

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But<00:19:39.055> I<00:19:39.135> wonder,<00:19:39.376> like,<00:19:39.713> the<00:19:39.810> names<00:19:40.099> that<00:19:40.212> you<00:19:40.356> just<00:19:40.517> named,<00:19:40.742> they<00:19:40.822> had<00:19:40.935> a<00:19:40.983> strong<00:19:41.320> network<00:19:41.722> back<00:19:42.027> then.

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They<00:19:42.429> were,<00:19:42.911> um,<00:19:43.554> you<00:19:43.586> know,<00:19:43.747> super<00:19:44.068> engaged<00:19:44.534> in<00:19:44.614> that<00:19:44.695> community.

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Jason<00:19:45.578> was<00:19:45.723> doing<00:19:45.916> events.

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Naval<00:19:46.703> was<00:19:46.928> thinking<00:19:47.121> about<00:19:47.410> AngelList<00:19:47.844> if<00:19:47.973> he<00:19:48.005> hadn't<00:19:48.230> already,<00:19:48.471> like<00:19:49.033> started<00:19:49.370> a<00:19:49.418> first<00:19:49.739> version<00:19:49.996> of<00:19:50.141> it.

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Um,<00:19:51.586> how<00:19:51.827> helpful<00:19:52.245> were<00:19:52.389> they<00:19:52.486> there?

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I<00:19:53.144> mean,<00:19:53.305> it's<00:19:53.674> huge.

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And<00:19:54.557> yeah,<00:19:55.216> they're<00:19:55.409> not<00:19:55.601> like<00:19:56.902> in<00:19:56.982> the<00:19:57.063> business<00:19:57.528> with<00:19:58.091> you<00:19:58.187> helping<00:19:58.492> you<00:19:58.653> build<00:19:58.845> it.

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Yeah.

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Um,<00:20:00.275> but<00:20:00.500> what<00:20:00.676> they<00:20:00.837> do<00:20:01.303> is,<00:20:01.865> A,<00:20:01.961> provide<00:20:02.363> validation<00:20:03.487> because<00:20:03.904> early-stage<00:20:04.434> companies,<00:20:05.655> you<00:20:05.751> know,<00:20:05.960> it's<00:20:06.088> like<00:20:06.297> hard<00:20:06.522> to<00:20:06.602> know<00:20:06.699> from<00:20:06.924> the<00:20:07.004> outside,<00:20:07.518> is<00:20:07.646> this<00:20:07.823> thing<00:20:07.983> legit<00:20:08.610> or<00:20:08.706> is<00:20:08.931> it,<00:20:09.670> you<00:20:09.750> know,<00:20:10.858> fake?

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Um,<00:20:11.822> and<00:20:11.998> when<00:20:12.159> serious<00:20:12.641> people<00:20:13.604> sort<00:20:13.749> of<00:20:13.910> put<00:20:14.070> their<00:20:14.231> stamp<00:20:14.568> of<00:20:14.664> approval<00:20:15.034> on<00:20:15.291> it,<00:20:15.676> then<00:20:15.836> everybody<00:20:16.317> else<00:20:16.429> kind<00:20:16.589> of<00:20:16.717> takes<00:20:16.974> notice<00:20:17.374> and<00:20:17.455> says,<00:20:17.711> oh,<00:20:17.759> I<00:20:17.855> should<00:20:18.080> pay<00:20:18.192> attention<00:20:18.560> to<00:20:18.592> this.

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Oh,<00:20:19.057> I<00:20:19.121> should<00:20:19.297> take<00:20:19.522> the<00:20:19.586> meeting.

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Oh,<00:20:20.099> I<00:20:20.179> should<00:20:20.403> listen<00:20:20.643> to<00:20:20.724> what<00:20:20.772> they<00:20:20.884> have<00:20:21.076> to<00:20:21.156> say.

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So<00:20:22.022> that's<00:20:22.262> enormously<00:20:22.903> valuable.

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They<00:20:24.489> also<00:20:24.986> give<00:20:25.211> you<00:20:25.467> kind<00:20:25.691> of<00:20:27.775> access<00:20:28.432> to<00:20:29.217> investors.

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So,<00:20:30.258> you<00:20:30.306> know,<00:20:31.060> J-Cal<00:20:31.797> invests<00:20:32.197> in<00:20:32.342> us<00:20:32.983> and<00:20:33.800> turns<00:20:34.120> around<00:20:34.761> and<00:20:34.841> introduces<00:20:35.563> me<00:20:35.883> to<00:20:36.348> Ruloff<00:20:37.566> at<00:20:37.726> Sequoia<00:20:38.687> and<00:20:38.912> Marc<00:20:39.168> Andreessen<00:20:40.274> at<00:20:41.733> Andreesen<00:20:42.118> Horowitz.

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And,<00:20:43.563> you<00:20:43.643> know,<00:20:44.125> I<00:20:44.237> didn't<00:20:44.446> have<00:20:45.345> access<00:20:45.666> to<00:20:45.811> those<00:20:46.003> two<00:20:46.148> people,<00:20:46.469> but<00:20:46.629> because<00:20:46.886> of<00:20:46.950> Jason,<00:20:47.512> he<00:20:47.592> introduced<00:20:47.994> me,<00:20:48.154> and<00:20:48.235> then<00:20:48.797> I<00:20:48.941> can<00:20:49.037> take<00:20:49.262> the<00:20:49.342> relationship<00:20:49.824> from<00:20:49.984> there,<00:20:50.241> right?

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Um,<00:20:51.686> and<00:20:51.750> then<00:20:51.847> the<00:20:51.927> last<00:20:52.248> thing<00:20:52.409> that<00:20:52.505> I<00:20:52.569> think<00:20:52.810> they<00:20:52.954> do<00:20:53.067> that's<00:20:53.275> really<00:20:53.452> valuable<00:20:53.821> is<00:20:53.918> not<00:20:54.014> just<00:20:54.255> invest—<00:20:54.736> uh,<00:20:54.897> investor<00:20:55.378> intros,<00:20:56.261> but<00:20:56.599> executive<00:20:57.465> and<00:20:57.610> talent<00:20:58.172> intros.

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Um,<00:21:00.435> Hadi<00:21:00.756> and<00:21:00.981> Ali<00:21:01.158> Partovi,<00:21:02.346> also<00:21:02.603> early<00:21:02.908> angel<00:21:03.148> investors<00:21:03.566> in<00:21:03.726> Thumbtack.

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And<00:21:05.075> I<00:21:05.107> remember,<00:21:05.958> um,<00:21:06.680> through<00:21:07.001> Ali<00:21:07.724> I<00:21:07.756> met<00:21:08.767> an<00:21:09.119> early<00:21:10.146> executive<00:21:10.723> that<00:21:11.028> we<00:21:11.252> hired,<00:21:11.974> um,<00:21:13.016> and,<00:21:13.658> you<00:21:13.754> know,<00:21:13.818> she<00:21:13.915> was<00:21:14.043> a<00:21:14.155> total<00:21:14.540> killer.

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Um,<00:21:16.240> started<00:21:16.497> as<00:21:16.657> a<00:21:16.721> category<00:21:17.138> management<00:21:17.667> leader,<00:21:18.485> became<00:21:18.886> sort<00:21:19.111> of<00:21:19.191> our<00:21:19.351> head<00:21:19.511> of<00:21:19.544> marketing,<00:21:20.650> then<00:21:20.810> went<00:21:21.115> on<00:21:21.452> to<00:21:21.532> be<00:21:22.029> CEO<00:21:22.719> of<00:21:22.799> her<00:21:22.879> own<00:21:22.975> business.

00:21:23.681 --> 00:21:31.315
Um,<00:21:24.724> and<00:21:25.702> I,<00:21:25.734> I<00:21:25.750> don't<00:21:26.600> know<00:21:26.760> if<00:21:26.905> I<00:21:26.985> would<00:21:27.097> have<00:21:27.209> met<00:21:27.322> her<00:21:27.530> had<00:21:27.626> it<00:21:27.658> not<00:21:27.867> been<00:21:28.011> for<00:21:28.139> this<00:21:28.332> angel<00:21:28.733> who<00:21:28.829> said,<00:21:29.054> hey,<00:21:29.535> I<00:21:29.551> know<00:21:29.631> this<00:21:29.791> great<00:21:29.952> talented<00:21:30.336> exec,<00:21:30.673> they're<00:21:30.753> starting<00:21:30.994> to<00:21:31.074> look.

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I<00:21:31.700> told<00:21:31.844> them<00:21:31.956> they<00:21:32.036> got<00:21:32.149> to<00:21:32.261> talk<00:21:32.437> to<00:21:32.582> you,<00:21:33.319> and<00:21:33.400> they<00:21:33.496> set<00:21:33.704> up<00:21:33.784> the<00:21:33.865> meeting.

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So<00:21:35.309> intros<00:21:35.951> and,<00:21:36.513> uh,<00:21:36.609> sort<00:21:36.850> of<00:21:37.091> access<00:21:37.814> and<00:21:38.279> validation<00:21:39.242> is<00:21:39.563> ultimately<00:21:40.141> what<00:21:40.302> you<00:21:40.382> get<00:21:41.024> and<00:21:41.185> why<00:21:41.442> it's<00:21:41.650> so<00:21:41.907> valuable<00:21:43.031> to<00:21:43.176> get<00:21:43.513> premium<00:21:43.914> investors.

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Yeah.

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At<00:21:46.563> what<00:21:46.724> point<00:21:46.964> did<00:21:47.125> you<00:21:47.285> realize,<00:21:48.233> hey,<00:21:48.489> Thumbtack<00:21:48.971> is<00:21:49.067> a<00:21:49.276> thing,<00:21:49.613> this<00:21:49.838> is<00:21:50.079> working,<00:21:50.962> uh,<00:21:51.283> we've<00:21:51.524> landed<00:21:51.925> on<00:21:52.021> something,<00:21:52.567> we're<00:21:52.664> seeing<00:21:53.129> some<00:21:53.306> progress,<00:21:53.787> we're<00:21:53.868> seeing<00:21:54.205> some<00:21:54.429> momentum?

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Because<00:21:55.939> as<00:21:56.356> you<00:21:56.516> know,<00:21:57.143> uh,<00:21:57.319> probably<00:21:57.640> better<00:21:57.865> than<00:21:58.026> anyone,<00:21:58.828> you<00:21:58.892> know,<00:21:59.021> those<00:21:59.230> early<00:21:59.406> days,<00:21:59.647> nobody<00:21:59.952> cares.

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What<00:22:01.318> you're<00:22:01.496> working<00:22:01.819> on.

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It's<00:22:02.771> lonely.

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It's,<00:22:04.466> uh,<00:22:04.643> how<00:22:04.805> do<00:22:04.950> we—<00:22:05.370> is—<00:22:05.773> should<00:22:05.935> I<00:22:06.031> even<00:22:06.257> be<00:22:06.403> doing<00:22:06.725> this<00:22:07.145> is<00:22:07.307> a<00:22:07.387> question<00:22:07.710> that's<00:22:07.871> coming<00:22:08.178> up<00:22:08.356> a<00:22:08.372> lot,<00:22:08.662> right?

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Um,<00:22:09.728> at<00:22:09.873> what<00:22:10.034> point<00:22:10.180> were<00:22:10.292> you—<00:22:10.518> did<00:22:10.679> you<00:22:10.775> turn<00:22:11.097> that<00:22:11.323> corner<00:22:12.144> and<00:22:12.225> you're<00:22:12.386> like,<00:22:12.611> yeah,<00:22:13.336> this<00:22:13.513> is<00:22:13.577> something?

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Um,<00:22:18.344> I<00:22:18.360> mean,<00:22:19.471> I<00:22:19.520> can<00:22:19.716> cite<00:22:20.271> various,<00:22:21.088> uh,<00:22:22.837> moments<00:22:23.393> where<00:22:23.556> it<00:22:23.703> felt<00:22:24.030> like<00:22:24.602> we<00:22:24.765> leveled<00:22:25.109> up.

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I<00:22:27.024> think<00:22:27.185> that<00:22:27.410> angel<00:22:27.732> round<00:22:28.150> in<00:22:28.231> 2010,<00:22:28.793> I<00:22:28.874> felt<00:22:29.099> like,<00:22:29.421> oh,<00:22:29.517> we<00:22:29.662> leveled<00:22:29.919> up.

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When<00:22:30.884> Sequoia<00:22:31.367> invested,<00:22:32.477> I<00:22:32.573> think<00:22:32.798> we<00:22:32.895> leveled<00:22:33.281> up.

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When<00:22:34.842> we<00:22:35.147> hired<00:22:35.871> sort<00:22:36.063> of<00:22:36.449> our<00:22:37.333> first<00:22:37.671> crop<00:22:38.056> of<00:22:38.764> truly<00:22:39.181> experienced<00:22:40.210> executives,<00:22:40.933> like,<00:22:41.110> oh,<00:22:41.255> we<00:22:41.351> leveled<00:22:41.737> up.

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But<00:22:43.312> I'll<00:22:43.505> tell<00:22:43.666> you,<00:22:44.731> I<00:22:44.813> have<00:22:44.993> not<00:22:45.878> gotten<00:22:46.206> to<00:22:46.320> the<00:22:46.468> point<00:22:47.189> where<00:22:47.353> I<00:22:47.435> feel<00:22:47.762> like,<00:22:50.346> yeah,<00:22:50.576> we've<00:22:50.740> made<00:22:50.987> it,<00:22:51.151> we're<00:22:51.249> done<00:22:51.480> it.

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Oh<00:22:52.862> wow.

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I—<00:22:53.664> yeah,<00:22:53.809> and<00:22:54.145> I<00:22:54.225> like,<00:22:55.188> on<00:22:55.332> one<00:22:55.492> hand<00:22:55.653> I<00:22:55.733> appreciate<00:22:56.214> how<00:22:56.310> far<00:22:56.615> we've<00:22:56.775> gotten<00:22:57.192> and<00:22:57.256> I'm<00:22:57.433> proud<00:22:57.914> and<00:22:57.994> recognize<00:22:58.379> that<00:22:58.716> there<00:22:58.796> are<00:22:58.876> a<00:22:59.020> lot<00:22:59.132> of<00:22:59.181> accomplishments<00:22:59.758> in<00:22:59.838> that,<00:23:00.640> but<00:23:01.361> Thumbtack<00:23:01.746> was<00:23:01.923> founded<00:23:02.628> in<00:23:02.708> the<00:23:02.789> same,<00:23:03.767> whatever,<00:23:04.104> 6-12<00:23:04.873> month<00:23:05.130> period<00:23:05.996> that<00:23:06.108> spawned<00:23:06.958> Uber<00:23:07.455> and<00:23:07.551> Airbnb.

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And<00:23:10.341> that<00:23:10.662> has<00:23:10.887> always<00:23:11.849> shown<00:23:12.266> me<00:23:12.570> how<00:23:12.827> big<00:23:13.212> and<00:23:13.308> how<00:23:13.468> impactful<00:23:14.495> these<00:23:14.735> businesses<00:23:15.794> can<00:23:15.954> get<00:23:16.756> when<00:23:18.023> you<00:23:18.183> truly<00:23:18.744> get<00:23:18.921> it<00:23:19.001> right.

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When<00:23:19.789> you<00:23:19.967> truly<00:23:20.628> solve<00:23:21.015> that<00:23:21.241> problem<00:23:22.371> in<00:23:22.871> sort<00:23:23.048> of<00:23:23.194> that<00:23:23.436> magical<00:23:24.000> of<00:23:24.146> a<00:23:24.226> way.

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And<00:23:25.614> look,<00:23:25.840> I<00:23:25.856> happen<00:23:26.114> to<00:23:26.179> believe<00:23:27.566> it<00:23:27.695> happened<00:23:28.034> first<00:23:28.841> in<00:23:28.890> those<00:23:29.019> sectors<00:23:30.607> for<00:23:30.866> a<00:23:30.947> reason.

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They're<00:23:31.546> sort<00:23:31.773> of—<00:23:34.171> I<00:23:34.187> don't<00:23:34.414> want<00:23:34.592> to<00:23:34.867> say<00:23:35.548> they're<00:23:35.726> sort<00:23:35.953> of<00:23:36.680> more—<00:23:37.195> they're<00:23:37.356> less<00:23:37.581> fragmented<00:23:38.387> than<00:23:38.886> sort<00:23:39.063> of<00:23:39.208> local<00:23:39.449> services.

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And<00:23:41.527> but<00:23:41.623> I<00:23:41.704> think<00:23:41.865> the<00:23:41.946> same<00:23:42.187> thing<00:23:42.364> is<00:23:42.493> going<00:23:42.574> to<00:23:42.654> happen<00:23:42.896> in<00:23:42.976> our<00:23:43.153> world.

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So,<00:23:44.104> you<00:23:44.136> know,<00:23:44.900> That's<00:23:45.093> still<00:23:45.334> what<00:23:45.576> motivates<00:23:46.043> me.

00:23:47.492 --> 00:23:50.922
You<00:23:47.589> know,<00:23:47.653> I<00:23:47.669> hear<00:23:47.895> people<00:23:48.104> say,<00:23:48.555> hey,<00:23:49.263> you<00:23:49.296> know,<00:23:49.585> just<00:23:49.924> get<00:23:50.085> an<00:23:50.149> Uber,<00:23:50.632> Uber<00:23:50.874> it.

00:23:53.064 --> 00:23:54.449
I<00:23:53.289> would<00:23:53.450> like<00:23:53.627> Thumbtack<00:23:54.110> to<00:23:54.191> be<00:23:54.320> a<00:23:54.336> verb.

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I<00:23:55.403> want<00:23:55.565> people<00:23:55.807> to<00:23:55.969> say<00:23:56.923> Thumbtack<00:23:57.327> it<00:23:57.667> when<00:23:57.828> they<00:23:57.909> need<00:23:58.071> to<00:23:58.217> hire<00:23:58.702> or<00:23:59.284> they're<00:23:59.429> talking<00:23:59.607> about<00:23:59.850> caring<00:24:00.173> for<00:24:00.335> their<00:24:00.497> home<00:24:00.820> and<00:24:00.868> the<00:24:00.965> best<00:24:01.143> way<00:24:01.305> to<00:24:01.386> do<00:24:01.548> that.

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So<00:24:02.937> not<00:24:03.275> done<00:24:03.500> yet.

00:24:04.305 --> 00:24:07.591
At<00:24:04.386> what<00:24:04.483> point<00:24:04.676> did<00:24:04.805> you<00:24:04.966> broaden<00:24:05.368> into<00:24:05.610> like<00:24:06.077> education<00:24:06.882> and<00:24:07.043> coaching?

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And<00:24:08.170> because,<00:24:09.136> you<00:24:09.217> know,<00:24:09.475> you<00:24:09.620> can<00:24:09.716> go<00:24:09.942> on<00:24:10.199> there.

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In<00:24:10.747> fact,<00:24:10.988> I've<00:24:11.166> done<00:24:11.488> this.

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I've<00:24:12.116> actually<00:24:12.384> hired<00:24:13.038> a<00:24:14.385> guitar<00:24:15.436> teacher<00:24:16.310> on<00:24:16.553> Thumbtack<00:24:17.232> for<00:24:17.863> my<00:24:18.122> son,<00:24:18.818> right?

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Like,<00:24:19.546> at<00:24:19.627> what<00:24:19.789> point<00:24:20.031> did<00:24:20.193> you<00:24:20.290> expand<00:24:20.760> beyond<00:24:21.083> like<00:24:21.261> home<00:24:21.504> services<00:24:22.054> and<00:24:22.151> things<00:24:22.378> like<00:24:22.556> that?

00:24:23.630 --> 00:24:26.588
So<00:24:23.678> interestingly,<00:24:24.215> we<00:24:24.312> started<00:24:25.271> more<00:24:25.450> broad<00:24:25.775> than<00:24:25.938> we<00:24:26.084> are<00:24:26.279> today.

00:24:27.902 --> 00:24:34.023
And<00:24:29.348> we<00:24:29.573> were<00:24:29.749> very<00:24:31.919> inspired<00:24:32.626> by<00:24:33.043> eBay<00:24:33.606> early<00:24:33.911> on.

00:24:35.036 --> 00:24:45.608
And<00:24:36.080> eBay<00:24:36.257> is<00:24:36.482> sort<00:24:36.675> of<00:24:36.739> famous<00:24:37.447> for<00:24:37.626> this<00:24:38.179> infinitely<00:24:38.992> long<00:24:39.253> tail<00:24:41.424> originally<00:24:41.971> unstructured<00:24:43.194> catalog,<00:24:43.773> um,<00:24:44.063> and<00:24:44.417> it<00:24:44.546> was<00:24:44.626> just<00:24:44.787> like,<00:24:45.205> whatever.

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Um,<00:24:47.764> the<00:24:47.812> magic<00:24:48.407> of<00:24:48.520> that<00:24:48.971> is<00:24:49.083> it<00:24:49.228> gives<00:24:49.550> you<00:24:49.856> access<00:24:50.740> and<00:24:51.222> opens<00:24:51.640> you<00:24:51.881> to<00:24:52.363> the<00:24:52.508> enormous<00:24:53.167> diversity<00:24:53.809> of<00:24:53.906> this<00:24:54.131> industry.

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Um,<00:24:55.819> and<00:24:55.963> that<00:24:56.526> was<00:24:56.783> critical<00:24:57.345> to<00:24:57.506> spurring<00:24:58.213> our<00:24:58.471> early<00:24:58.712> growth<00:25:00.320> because<00:25:00.577> it<00:25:00.722> let<00:25:00.883> us<00:25:01.124> build<00:25:01.445> up<00:25:01.831> kind<00:25:02.073> of<00:25:04.260> our<00:25:04.340> pro<00:25:04.726> base,<00:25:05.369> um,<00:25:05.868> in<00:25:06.012> places<00:25:06.430> that<00:25:07.010> sort<00:25:07.186> of<00:25:07.362> others<00:25:07.683> hadn't<00:25:08.067> focused<00:25:08.564> on.

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But<00:25:09.927> over<00:25:10.151> time,<00:25:10.488> what<00:25:10.648> we<00:25:10.728> came<00:25:10.969> to<00:25:11.049> appreciate,<00:25:11.835> and<00:25:11.915> in<00:25:11.947> some<00:25:12.107> sense<00:25:12.396> why<00:25:12.652> Amazon<00:25:13.758> won<00:25:14.015> and<00:25:14.399> eBay<00:25:14.640> lost,<00:25:15.297> was<00:25:16.419> to<00:25:16.579> deliver<00:25:17.221> that<00:25:17.525> kind<00:25:17.766> of<00:25:18.247> effortless<00:25:19.289> and<00:25:20.170> modern<00:25:20.827> customer<00:25:21.212> experience<00:25:22.030> and<00:25:22.591> modern<00:25:22.895> kind<00:25:23.072> of<00:25:23.312> buying<00:25:23.777> experience,<00:25:25.220> that<00:25:25.540> only<00:25:25.957> comes<00:25:26.582> from<00:25:26.999> really<00:25:27.240> structuring<00:25:28.121> not<00:25:28.442> just<00:25:28.602> the<00:25:28.762> data<00:25:29.083> but<00:25:29.243> the<00:25:29.388> experience,<00:25:30.606> right?

00:25:30.846 --> 00:25:41.668
By<00:25:30.991> having<00:25:31.952> a<00:25:32.065> more<00:25:32.289> structured<00:25:33.026> experience,<00:25:33.732> you<00:25:33.892> take<00:25:34.453> sort<00:25:34.678> of<00:25:34.918> work<00:25:35.319> out<00:25:35.559> for<00:25:35.719> the<00:25:35.816> customer,<00:25:36.281> you<00:25:36.361> help<00:25:36.521> them<00:25:36.681> do<00:25:36.938> more<00:25:37.242> faster,<00:25:38.140> and<00:25:38.284> ultimately<00:25:39.182> you<00:25:39.262> help<00:25:39.487> them<00:25:39.583> shop<00:25:40.144> in<00:25:40.224> the<00:25:40.369> way<00:25:40.529> that<00:25:40.930> they<00:25:41.090> want<00:25:41.251> to<00:25:41.283> shop.

00:25:41.972 --> 00:25:49.798
Um,<00:25:42.935> so<00:25:43.592> that<00:25:43.833> has<00:25:44.073> been<00:25:44.474> really<00:25:45.196> a<00:25:45.356> guiding<00:25:46.559> sort<00:25:46.735> of<00:25:46.879> principle<00:25:47.505> for<00:25:47.745> us,<00:25:48.547> um,<00:25:48.948> for<00:25:49.124> a<00:25:49.189> long<00:25:49.445> time.

00:25:50.151 --> 00:25:59.067
And<00:25:50.728> we<00:25:50.872> realized<00:25:51.594> we<00:25:51.690> couldn't<00:25:51.995> be<00:25:52.171> this<00:25:52.396> kind<00:25:52.588> of<00:25:53.117> open-ended,<00:25:53.999> unstructured<00:25:55.042> marketplace,<00:25:56.180> you<00:25:56.277> know,<00:25:56.341> that<00:25:56.485> was<00:25:56.645> Craigslist,<00:25:57.367> or<00:25:57.624> that<00:25:57.848> was<00:25:57.944> just<00:25:58.506> OpenSearch.

00:25:59.452 --> 00:26:12.231
Um,<00:26:00.334> but<00:26:00.590> for<00:26:00.991> Thumbtack,<00:26:01.536> we<00:26:01.697> wanted<00:26:01.937> to<00:26:02.033> be<00:26:02.114> the<00:26:02.194> best<00:26:02.434> place<00:26:02.675> to<00:26:02.755> hire,<00:26:03.397> and<00:26:03.541> to<00:26:03.621> do<00:26:03.717> that,<00:26:04.118> we<00:26:04.262> have<00:26:04.423> to<00:26:04.503> structure<00:26:04.904> the<00:26:04.984> experience<00:26:05.866> and<00:26:05.946> that<00:26:06.203> meant<00:26:06.764> imposing<00:26:08.463> sort<00:26:08.672> of<00:26:08.768> coordination<00:26:09.553> and<00:26:10.050> sort<00:26:10.291> of,<00:26:10.692> uh,<00:26:11.012> standardizing<00:26:11.878> things.

00:26:12.439 --> 00:26:16.640
And<00:26:13.241> that<00:26:13.562> is<00:26:13.722> tricky<00:26:14.219> and<00:26:14.363> hard,<00:26:14.636> especially<00:26:15.004> when<00:26:15.085> you<00:26:15.181> cover<00:26:15.501> as<00:26:15.646> many<00:26:15.886> verticals<00:26:16.303> as<00:26:16.447> we<00:26:16.544> do.

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But<00:26:17.986> that's<00:26:18.451> really<00:26:18.772> what<00:26:19.012> then<00:26:19.253> motivated<00:26:19.830> us<00:26:19.990> to<00:26:20.135> focus<00:26:20.696> in.

00:26:21.433 --> 00:26:29.498
And<00:26:21.578> today<00:26:21.898> we<00:26:21.994> do<00:26:22.155> support,<00:26:22.860> you<00:26:22.892> know,<00:26:22.940> a<00:26:23.101> wide<00:26:23.341> range<00:26:23.534> of<00:26:23.662> services,<00:26:24.704> but<00:26:24.784> our<00:26:24.944> focus<00:26:25.666> is<00:26:25.826> on<00:26:25.987> homeowners<00:26:26.724> and<00:26:26.868> helping<00:26:27.125> them<00:26:27.349> hire<00:26:28.007> sort<00:26:28.231> of<00:26:28.311> home<00:26:28.504> service<00:26:28.952> professionals.

00:26:30.075 --> 00:26:33.297
A<00:26:30.155> company<00:26:30.411> like<00:26:30.636> yours,<00:26:31.117> like<00:26:31.357> once<00:26:31.550> it<00:26:31.614> starts<00:26:31.870> growing,<00:26:32.159> it<00:26:32.239> starts<00:26:32.480> growing<00:26:32.736> so<00:26:32.961> quickly.

00:26:33.361 --> 00:26:35.141
You<00:26:33.393> have<00:26:33.554> to<00:26:33.682> start<00:26:33.922> hiring<00:26:34.323> so<00:26:34.484> fast.

00:26:35.430 --> 00:26:36.632
You<00:26:35.542> start<00:26:35.862> recruiting.

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And<00:26:37.225> I<00:26:37.370> wonder<00:26:37.771> like<00:26:38.829> what<00:26:39.054> lessons<00:26:39.470> you<00:26:39.695> learned<00:26:40.016> from<00:26:40.256> like,<00:26:40.433> hey,<00:26:41.138> uh,<00:26:41.635> you<00:26:41.731> know,<00:26:42.341> I<00:26:42.357> know<00:26:42.533> everybody<00:26:42.918> in<00:26:43.078> this<00:26:43.303> company,<00:26:44.345> we're<00:26:44.441> small,<00:26:45.083> we're<00:26:45.307> all<00:26:45.468> in<00:26:45.564> it<00:26:45.660> together,<00:26:46.125> to<00:26:46.221> like,<00:26:46.430> now<00:26:46.542> we<00:26:46.622> need<00:26:46.767> to<00:26:46.863> expand<00:26:47.665> and<00:26:47.809> really<00:26:48.049> grow<00:26:48.386> this<00:26:48.611> team<00:26:49.156> and<00:26:49.236> start<00:26:49.477> recruiting<00:26:49.893> people<00:26:50.150> maybe<00:26:50.519> we<00:26:50.679> don't<00:26:50.920> know,<00:26:51.176> that,<00:26:51.417> that<00:26:51.641> type<00:26:51.802> of<00:26:51.834> stuff.

00:26:52.603 --> 00:26:55.554
What<00:26:52.700> did<00:26:52.844> you<00:26:53.020> learn<00:26:53.421> in<00:26:53.566> that<00:26:53.806> growth<00:26:54.223> period<00:26:54.864> recruiting?

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And<00:26:56.099> then<00:26:56.227> what<00:26:56.356> have<00:26:56.468> you<00:26:56.548> learned<00:26:56.789> since<00:26:57.350> now<00:26:57.510> that<00:26:57.655> you're,<00:26:58.055> you<00:26:58.088> know,<00:26:58.633> your<00:26:58.857> last<00:26:59.258> evaluation<00:26:59.835> was<00:27:00.076> $3.2<00:27:00.798> billion<00:27:01.279> that<00:27:01.599> I,<00:27:01.695> at<00:27:01.776> least<00:27:01.920> that<00:27:02.064> I<00:27:02.144> could<00:27:02.305> find.

00:27:03.509 --> 00:27:05.935
And<00:27:03.589> you're<00:27:03.750> trying<00:27:04.071> to<00:27:04.248> recruit<00:27:04.730> executives<00:27:05.357> and<00:27:05.437> stuff<00:27:05.678> like<00:27:05.838> that.

00:27:06.015 --> 00:27:08.714
How<00:27:06.176> has<00:27:06.336> recruiting<00:27:06.883> changed<00:27:07.220> for<00:27:07.300> you<00:27:07.943> over<00:27:08.104> the<00:27:08.248> course<00:27:08.505> of<00:27:08.586> this?

00:27:10.047 --> 00:27:12.521
So,<00:27:11.076> I<00:27:11.092> mean,<00:27:11.477> we<00:27:11.702> have<00:27:11.879> grown<00:27:12.120> a<00:27:12.184> lot.

00:27:12.746 --> 00:27:14.883
I<00:27:13.887> just<00:27:14.128> saw<00:27:14.353> this<00:27:14.529> number.

00:27:16.056 --> 00:27:26.192
We've—<00:27:16.682> we<00:27:16.778> were<00:27:17.341> 20<00:27:17.726> people<00:27:18.385> 10<00:27:18.610> years<00:27:18.803> ago<00:27:19.333> and<00:27:19.429> we're<00:27:19.493> 1,000<00:27:21.036> now,<00:27:21.823> which<00:27:21.999> is<00:27:22.080> basically,<00:27:22.722> you<00:27:22.867> know,<00:27:23.268> 50%<00:27:24.329> compounded<00:27:24.955> growth<00:27:25.357> for<00:27:25.694> 10<00:27:25.919> years.

00:27:26.883 --> 00:27:27.670
Incredible.

00:27:27.718 --> 00:27:29.871
So<00:27:27.863> we<00:27:28.088> have—<00:27:28.506> yeah,<00:27:28.811> we<00:27:28.907> have<00:27:29.084> seen<00:27:29.373> a<00:27:29.389> lot<00:27:29.630> of<00:27:29.775> it.

00:27:30.096 --> 00:28:03.491
And<00:27:30.594> look,<00:27:30.835> I<00:27:30.915> think<00:27:31.172> my<00:27:31.381> big<00:27:31.542> lesson<00:27:33.245> is<00:27:33.469> the<00:27:33.550> sort<00:27:33.710> of<00:27:33.791> the<00:27:33.871> importance<00:27:34.433> of<00:27:34.674> values<00:27:36.361> and<00:27:37.245> how<00:27:37.582> critical<00:27:38.144> those<00:27:38.449> are<00:27:38.931> to<00:27:39.028> an<00:27:39.108> organization<00:27:39.831> to<00:27:39.911> define<00:27:41.502> how<00:27:41.759> it<00:27:41.903> operates,<00:27:42.562> to<00:27:42.658> define<00:27:43.510> how<00:27:43.622> it<00:27:43.767> makes<00:27:44.008> trade-offs,<00:27:44.715> to,<00:27:46.241> yeah,<00:27:46.642> orient<00:27:47.060> people,<00:27:47.928> and<00:27:48.104> then<00:27:48.731> to<00:27:49.213> use<00:27:49.614> recruiting<00:27:50.418> as<00:27:50.578> a<00:27:50.658> way<00:27:50.980> to<00:27:51.799> bring<00:27:52.040> in,<00:27:53.245> you<00:27:53.325> know,<00:27:53.566> more<00:27:53.887> people<00:27:54.434> who<00:27:55.253> are<00:27:55.333> really<00:27:55.574> aligned<00:27:56.056> with<00:27:56.217> those<00:27:56.458> values<00:27:57.165> and<00:27:57.582> in<00:27:57.662> that<00:27:57.823> mission,<00:27:58.144> because<00:27:59.027> I<00:27:59.108> think<00:27:59.332> I<00:27:59.429> didn't<00:27:59.734> appreciate<00:28:00.489> early<00:28:00.858> on<00:28:01.902> how<00:28:02.062> critical<00:28:02.400> that<00:28:02.705> alignment<00:28:03.267> was.

00:28:04.872 --> 00:28:09.706
You<00:28:04.905> know,<00:28:04.969> at<00:28:05.049> first<00:28:06.093> my<00:28:06.253> mental<00:28:06.526> model<00:28:06.880> was<00:28:07.040> like,<00:28:07.458> just<00:28:07.618> find<00:28:07.843> the<00:28:07.923> most<00:28:08.325> talented<00:28:08.807> humans<00:28:09.304> possible.

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Nothing<00:28:11.055> else<00:28:11.312> mattered.

00:28:12.982 --> 00:28:18.088
And<00:28:14.041> we<00:28:14.186> hired<00:28:14.379> a<00:28:14.443> lot<00:28:14.620> of<00:28:14.684> very<00:28:14.925> talented<00:28:15.310> people,<00:28:16.049> but<00:28:16.691> not<00:28:16.996> all<00:28:17.157> of<00:28:17.253> them<00:28:17.414> were<00:28:17.558> a<00:28:17.590> success.

00:28:18.441 --> 00:28:20.176
And,<00:28:18.923> you<00:28:19.019> know,<00:28:19.084> you<00:28:19.116> start<00:28:19.244> to<00:28:19.437> think<00:28:19.597> about,<00:28:19.806> well,<00:28:19.983> why?

00:28:20.304 --> 00:28:23.483
Like,<00:28:20.770> they're<00:28:20.866> smart,<00:28:21.669> they're<00:28:21.749> hardworking,<00:28:22.873> they're<00:28:23.034> good<00:28:23.194> humans.

00:28:23.676 --> 00:28:25.041
It's<00:28:23.756> not<00:28:23.837> like<00:28:23.917> we<00:28:24.062> hired<00:28:24.238> any<00:28:24.399> bad<00:28:24.640> people.

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But<00:28:25.618> it<00:28:25.682> didn't<00:28:25.827> fit.

00:28:26.580 --> 00:28:27.926
It<00:28:26.644> just<00:28:27.365> didn't<00:28:27.605> click.

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It<00:28:28.310> didn't<00:28:28.487> succeed<00:28:29.031> as<00:28:29.128> well<00:28:29.352> as<00:28:29.464> some<00:28:29.688> other<00:28:29.849> people.

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And<00:28:30.730> what<00:28:30.954> you<00:28:30.986> come<00:28:31.195> to<00:28:31.275> appreciate<00:28:31.996> is<00:28:33.278> what<00:28:33.454> it<00:28:33.598> takes<00:28:33.919> to<00:28:34.079> work<00:28:34.352> is<00:28:34.496> not<00:28:34.800> just<00:28:35.201> the<00:28:35.521> talent<00:28:36.243> and<00:28:36.323> the<00:28:36.403> expertise<00:28:36.980> to<00:28:37.124> do<00:28:37.220> the<00:28:37.300> job<00:28:37.621> well,<00:28:38.005> though<00:28:38.101> that<00:28:38.262> is<00:28:38.406> obviously<00:28:38.806> critical.

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It's<00:28:39.624> also<00:28:39.864> the<00:28:40.008> alignment<00:28:41.066> with<00:28:41.226> the<00:28:41.322> organization.

00:28:42.188 --> 00:28:43.518
And<00:28:42.572> I<00:28:42.588> mean<00:28:42.765> that<00:28:42.909> very<00:28:43.133> broadly.

00:28:43.646 --> 00:29:03.993
So<00:28:44.415> alignment<00:28:44.912> in<00:28:44.944> terms<00:28:45.088> of<00:28:45.216> ambition,<00:28:46.258> alignment<00:28:47.075> in<00:28:47.219> terms<00:28:47.556> of<00:28:47.652> sort<00:28:47.892> of,<00:28:48.421> you<00:28:48.501> know,<00:28:48.742> work<00:28:48.934> style,<00:28:49.623> collaboration,<00:28:50.697> sort<00:28:50.937> of<00:28:51.466> values<00:28:52.284> or<00:28:52.364> not,<00:28:53.808> those<00:28:54.209> things<00:28:54.674> actually<00:28:55.717> really<00:28:56.198> help<00:28:56.454> things<00:28:57.818> sort<00:28:57.994> of<00:28:58.219> go<00:28:58.395> fast<00:28:59.245> and<00:28:59.678> move<00:28:59.983> effectively<00:29:00.625> because<00:29:01.266> you're<00:29:01.346> kind<00:29:01.507> of<00:29:01.667> all<00:29:02.630> singing<00:29:02.934> from<00:29:03.095> the<00:29:03.127> same<00:29:03.432> song<00:29:03.672> sheet.

00:29:04.795 --> 00:29:14.354
Not<00:29:04.939> only<00:29:05.116> do<00:29:05.196> you<00:29:05.340> hopefully<00:29:05.661> have<00:29:05.773> a<00:29:05.837> shared<00:29:06.704> vision<00:29:06.976> of<00:29:07.040> what<00:29:07.201> success<00:29:07.602> looks<00:29:07.874> like,<00:29:08.404> but<00:29:08.468> you<00:29:08.548> have<00:29:08.660> a<00:29:08.725> shared<00:29:09.992> sort<00:29:10.168> of<00:29:10.393> guidebook<00:29:11.531> for<00:29:11.676> how<00:29:11.708> to<00:29:11.916> operate<00:29:12.494> and<00:29:12.638> how<00:29:12.734> to<00:29:12.879> make<00:29:13.071> decisions<00:29:13.552> and<00:29:13.633> make<00:29:13.777> trade-offs.

00:29:14.723 --> 00:29:19.551
And<00:29:14.820> through<00:29:15.060> that,<00:29:15.557> it<00:29:15.605> makes<00:29:16.006> it<00:29:17.129> really<00:29:17.530> easy<00:29:17.787> to<00:29:17.883> navigate<00:29:18.444> inside<00:29:18.829> the<00:29:18.910> organization.

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And<00:29:19.872> to<00:29:20.033> work<00:29:20.274> with<00:29:20.434> whomever<00:29:21.060> on<00:29:21.301> whatever.

00:29:21.943 --> 00:29:26.182
Um,<00:29:22.618> so<00:29:22.698> that's<00:29:22.955> something<00:29:23.164> that<00:29:23.324> like<00:29:24.432> became<00:29:24.930> more<00:29:25.155> obvious<00:29:25.749> over<00:29:25.958> time.

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Wasn't<00:29:27.001> obvious<00:29:27.435> early<00:29:27.724> on.

00:29:28.206 --> 00:29:45.097
Um,<00:29:28.864> and<00:29:28.944> something<00:29:29.249> that<00:29:29.330> I've<00:29:29.490> really<00:29:29.667> sort<00:29:29.827> of<00:29:30.213> leaned<00:29:30.453> into<00:29:31.272> both<00:29:31.497> in<00:29:31.594> terms<00:29:31.850> of,<00:29:32.958> yeah,<00:29:33.135> setting<00:29:33.440> the<00:29:33.520> values,<00:29:34.163> living<00:29:34.403> the<00:29:34.484> values,<00:29:35.046> but<00:29:35.206> then<00:29:35.351> also<00:29:36.314> recruiting<00:29:37.133> against<00:29:37.454> those<00:29:37.679> values<00:29:38.016> and<00:29:38.112> ensuring<00:29:38.482> the<00:29:38.562> people<00:29:38.739> we<00:29:38.899> bring<00:29:39.140> in<00:29:39.381> aren't<00:29:39.542> just<00:29:40.168> hyper-talented,<00:29:41.308> but<00:29:41.533> they're<00:29:41.709> sort<00:29:41.934> of<00:29:42.673> aligned<00:29:43.620> with<00:29:43.861> how<00:29:43.957> we<00:29:44.102> work<00:29:44.519> and<00:29:44.664> how<00:29:44.760> we<00:29:44.856> operate.

00:29:45.794 --> 00:29:59.941
How<00:29:45.991> soon<00:29:46.862> on<00:29:47.108> average,<00:29:48.012> as<00:29:48.340> you've<00:29:48.504> seen,<00:29:48.767> as<00:29:48.997> you've<00:29:49.095> been<00:29:49.260> growing,<00:29:51.470> do<00:29:51.567> you<00:29:51.826> realize,<00:29:53.187> hey,<00:29:53.348> this<00:29:53.527> person<00:29:53.851> isn't<00:29:54.094> a<00:29:54.175> good<00:29:54.401> fit<00:29:54.806> versus<00:29:55.292> like<00:29:56.037> when<00:29:56.183> you—<00:29:56.216> because<00:29:56.523> obviously<00:29:56.847> when<00:29:56.993> you<00:29:57.090> first<00:29:57.333> hire<00:29:57.560> them,<00:29:57.641> you're<00:29:57.754> like,<00:29:57.900> this<00:29:58.143> is—<00:29:58.856> we<00:29:58.953> want<00:29:59.115> them,<00:29:59.342> we<00:29:59.423> want<00:29:59.552> them<00:29:59.617> on<00:29:59.698> the<00:29:59.779> team.

00:29:59.990 --> 00:30:00.881
They're<00:30:00.136> a<00:30:00.152> good<00:30:00.314> fit,<00:30:00.557> right?

00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:03.113
And<00:30:01.205> then<00:30:01.285> you<00:30:01.382> learn<00:30:01.786> like,<00:30:02.029> hey,<00:30:02.272> maybe<00:30:02.514> they're<00:30:02.595> not<00:30:02.773> a<00:30:02.838> good<00:30:03.000> fit.

00:30:03.162 --> 00:30:07.239
How—<00:30:03.874> what<00:30:03.971> is<00:30:04.132> your,<00:30:05.168> your<00:30:05.281> sense<00:30:05.589> for<00:30:05.686> like<00:30:05.831> how<00:30:06.058> long<00:30:06.236> it<00:30:06.317> takes<00:30:06.559> to<00:30:06.786> know<00:30:06.980> that?

00:30:07.611 --> 00:30:12.402
And<00:30:07.757> what<00:30:07.919> is<00:30:07.951> your<00:30:08.080> sense<00:30:08.420> for<00:30:08.647> like—<00:30:08.841> I<00:30:08.906> mean,<00:30:09.067> a<00:30:09.084> lot<00:30:09.245> of<00:30:09.310> people<00:30:09.796> talk<00:30:10.054> about<00:30:10.250> like<00:30:10.512> hiring<00:30:11.104> slow,<00:30:11.580> firing<00:30:12.155> fast.

00:30:13.032 --> 00:30:14.154
What's<00:30:13.192> your<00:30:13.352> take<00:30:13.593> on<00:30:13.673> all<00:30:13.833> of<00:30:13.914> that?

00:30:15.452 --> 00:30:35.635
So<00:30:16.559> over<00:30:16.863> the<00:30:17.104> years,<00:30:17.665> I've<00:30:17.841> come<00:30:18.402> to<00:30:18.562> trust<00:30:19.027> my<00:30:19.348> gut<00:30:20.807> less<00:30:21.913> when<00:30:22.073> it<00:30:22.169> comes<00:30:22.570> to<00:30:22.714> assessing<00:30:24.558> sort<00:30:24.734> of<00:30:25.455> technical<00:30:26.257> talent,<00:30:26.914> executive<00:30:27.684> talent,<00:30:28.902> talent<00:30:29.623> in<00:30:29.848> any<00:30:30.024> domain,<00:30:30.585> because,<00:30:31.611> you<00:30:31.643> know,<00:30:31.771> ideally<00:30:32.172> I'm<00:30:32.332> hiring<00:30:32.573> people<00:30:32.894> who,<00:30:34.096> you<00:30:34.128> know,<00:30:34.593> know<00:30:34.817> much<00:30:35.074> more<00:30:35.234> than<00:30:35.346> me.

00:30:35.939 --> 00:30:40.124
Uh,<00:30:36.212> so<00:30:37.077> it<00:30:37.254> in<00:30:37.382> some<00:30:37.558> sense<00:30:37.863> shouldn't<00:30:38.264> be<00:30:38.424> hard<00:30:38.841> to<00:30:39.226> impress<00:30:39.883> me.

00:30:40.910 --> 00:30:46.781
And<00:30:41.632> what<00:30:41.792> I<00:30:41.952> look<00:30:42.129> to<00:30:43.396> is<00:30:43.974> more<00:30:44.198> the<00:30:44.375> market<00:30:44.760> validation<00:30:46.043> of<00:30:46.155> that<00:30:46.380> talent.

00:30:47.406 --> 00:30:50.598
What<00:30:47.503> did<00:30:47.647> their<00:30:47.823> career<00:30:48.240> look<00:30:48.449> like<00:30:48.706> for<00:30:48.802> the<00:30:48.866> last<00:30:49.107> 10,<00:30:49.492> 15,<00:30:49.909> 20<00:30:50.230> years?

00:30:51.016 --> 00:30:51.930
What<00:30:51.096> did<00:30:51.176> they<00:30:51.272> accomplish?

00:30:52.219 --> 00:30:54.272
Uh,<00:30:52.876> what<00:30:52.956> do<00:30:53.037> their<00:30:53.277> peers<00:30:53.598> say<00:30:53.823> about<00:30:54.144> them?

00:30:54.705 --> 00:31:02.036
Um,<00:30:55.844> it's<00:30:56.084> really<00:30:56.405> hard<00:30:56.646> to<00:30:56.726> fake<00:30:57.047> a<00:30:57.127> career,<00:30:57.929> and<00:30:58.074> I<00:30:58.154> think<00:30:58.394> careers<00:30:58.892> do<00:30:59.774> evidence<00:31:01.121> talent<00:31:01.619> ultimately.

00:31:02.405 --> 00:31:09.544
Um,<00:31:03.158> so<00:31:03.287> I,<00:31:03.784> I<00:31:03.864> use<00:31:04.169> that<00:31:04.650> as<00:31:04.811> a<00:31:04.907> sort<00:31:05.131> of<00:31:05.308> lens<00:31:05.950> into<00:31:07.200> um,<00:31:07.879> you<00:31:07.959> know,<00:31:08.267> who<00:31:08.428> is<00:31:08.590> or<00:31:08.752> is<00:31:08.913> not<00:31:09.091> talented.

00:31:10.045 --> 00:31:19.439
And<00:31:10.126> then<00:31:10.288> I<00:31:10.385> think<00:31:10.643> about<00:31:10.870> my<00:31:11.031> role<00:31:11.759> as<00:31:11.904> less<00:31:12.066> like,<00:31:12.325> is<00:31:12.406> this<00:31:12.632> person<00:31:12.971> talented<00:31:13.376> or<00:31:13.440> not,<00:31:13.780> but<00:31:13.942> more,<00:31:14.588> are<00:31:14.669> they<00:31:14.831> talented<00:31:15.801> in<00:31:15.882> the<00:31:15.963> critical<00:31:16.367> way<00:31:16.528> that<00:31:16.771> we<00:31:16.836> need<00:31:17.321> for<00:31:17.482> this<00:31:17.725> role<00:31:18.048> to<00:31:18.145> be<00:31:18.291> maximally<00:31:18.792> successful?

00:31:20.085 --> 00:31:23.933
And<00:31:20.150> then<00:31:20.393> two,<00:31:20.813> are<00:31:20.894> they<00:31:21.039> a<00:31:21.056> fit<00:31:21.702> with<00:31:23.222> our<00:31:23.481> values?

00:31:24.127 --> 00:31:34.135
And<00:31:24.208> so<00:31:26.213> again,<00:31:26.407> I<00:31:26.440> trust<00:31:26.633> my<00:31:26.795> gut<00:31:27.118> less<00:31:27.830> on<00:31:28.169> the<00:31:28.654> pure<00:31:28.897> talent<00:31:29.301> assessment,<00:31:29.786> the<00:31:29.867> skills<00:31:30.368> assessment,<00:31:31.710> but<00:31:31.807> I<00:31:31.871> trust<00:31:32.049> my<00:31:32.130> gut<00:31:32.453> more<00:31:33.165> on<00:31:33.246> the<00:31:33.504> fit<00:31:33.828> assessment.

00:31:34.547 --> 00:31:39.894
And<00:31:35.924> I'm<00:31:36.102> just,<00:31:37.803> I<00:31:37.949> try<00:31:38.063> to<00:31:38.144> be<00:31:38.354> ruthless<00:31:38.711> about<00:31:38.938> that<00:31:39.100> in<00:31:39.181> the<00:31:39.278> interview<00:31:39.570> process.

00:31:40.722 --> 00:31:47.889
I've<00:31:40.867> just<00:31:41.028> seen<00:31:41.220> it<00:31:41.285> play<00:31:41.590> out<00:31:41.831> where,<00:31:43.759> you<00:31:43.839> know,<00:31:43.952> maybe<00:31:44.161> I'll<00:31:44.273> sort<00:31:44.482> of<00:31:44.514> say,<00:31:44.723> hey,<00:31:44.900> the<00:31:44.980> fit<00:31:45.221> is<00:31:45.703> good<00:31:45.864> enough,<00:31:46.330> but<00:31:46.523> the<00:31:47.005> skills<00:31:47.487> are<00:31:47.551> so<00:31:47.792> good.

00:31:47.953 --> 00:31:49.126
The<00:31:48.033> experience<00:31:48.596> is<00:31:48.628> so<00:31:48.901> good.

00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:50.430
Let's<00:31:49.881> take<00:31:50.010> that<00:31:50.203> bet.

00:31:50.753 --> 00:31:51.981
And<00:31:51.189> it<00:31:51.561> doesn't<00:31:51.738> work.

00:31:52.126 --> 00:31:52.676
You<00:31:52.159> need<00:31:52.385> both.

00:31:52.950 --> 00:31:54.889
And<00:31:53.096> so<00:31:53.500> I<00:31:53.581> just<00:31:53.742> hold<00:31:53.904> that<00:31:54.081> bar<00:31:54.405> up<00:31:54.550> front.

00:31:56.116 --> 00:32:00.715
And<00:31:56.703> you<00:31:57.225> know,<00:31:59.786> I<00:31:59.884> think,<00:32:00.112> you<00:32:00.144> know,<00:32:00.291> very<00:32:00.601> quickly.

00:32:01.052 --> 00:32:02.814
And<00:32:01.150> the<00:32:01.215> question<00:32:01.542> is<00:32:01.705> just<00:32:02.015> whether<00:32:02.260> you<00:32:02.423> act<00:32:02.668> on<00:32:02.765> it.

00:32:03.010 --> 00:32:05.996
And<00:32:03.092> so<00:32:03.239> I<00:32:03.337> try<00:32:03.500> to<00:32:03.565> act<00:32:03.810> on<00:32:03.908> it<00:32:04.479> before<00:32:04.740> it<00:32:04.821> even<00:32:05.034> starts<00:32:05.556> in<00:32:05.637> some<00:32:05.801> sense.

00:32:07.495 --> 00:32:14.287
I<00:32:07.738> know<00:32:07.900> you're<00:32:08.061> based<00:32:08.530> in<00:32:08.805> Silicon<00:32:09.339> Valley<00:32:09.921> and<00:32:10.066> you<00:32:10.228> have<00:32:10.406> like<00:32:10.649> satellite<00:32:11.134> offices<00:32:11.700> in—<00:32:12.492> I<00:32:12.524> know<00:32:12.670> you<00:32:12.767> have<00:32:12.896> one<00:32:13.010> in<00:32:13.155> Utah,<00:32:13.721> for<00:32:13.867> example.

00:32:14.918 --> 00:32:18.126
Um,<00:32:15.985> what,<00:32:16.308> what's<00:32:16.551> the<00:32:16.600> decision<00:32:17.038> to<00:32:17.119> stay<00:32:17.428> in<00:32:17.525> Silicon<00:32:17.915> Valley?

00:32:18.175 --> 00:32:22.170
I<00:32:18.191> mean,<00:32:18.402> obviously<00:32:18.727> that's<00:32:18.906> been<00:32:19.003> a<00:32:19.068> big<00:32:19.555> topic<00:32:19.961> over<00:32:20.124> the<00:32:20.205> past,<00:32:21.163> uh,<00:32:21.488> few<00:32:21.812> years.

00:32:22.218 --> 00:32:23.907
Like,<00:32:22.462> should<00:32:22.624> you<00:32:22.787> exit<00:32:23.128> Silicon<00:32:23.534> Valley?

00:32:24.184 --> 00:32:25.168
Should<00:32:24.492> you<00:32:24.852> stay?

00:32:25.899 --> 00:32:27.876
Like,<00:32:26.398> what<00:32:26.514> are,<00:32:26.647> what<00:32:26.747> do<00:32:26.796> you,<00:32:26.896> what,<00:32:27.162> what's<00:32:27.328> your<00:32:27.478> take<00:32:27.743> on<00:32:27.827> that?

00:32:29.447 --> 00:32:32.390
Um,<00:32:30.433> well,<00:32:30.579> I<00:32:30.757> think<00:32:31.388> I<00:32:31.404> have<00:32:31.630> two<00:32:31.792> answers<00:32:32.196> for<00:32:32.358> you.

00:32:32.455 --> 00:32:34.930
One<00:32:33.167> is<00:32:33.329> the<00:32:33.426> personal,<00:32:34.073> personal<00:32:34.477> answer.

00:32:36.962 --> 00:32:37.660
Um,<00:32:36.982> you<00:32:37.014> know,<00:32:37.079> it's<00:32:37.240> my<00:32:37.402> home.

00:32:38.274 --> 00:32:38.969
I'm<00:32:38.597> from<00:32:38.840> here.

00:32:39.260 --> 00:32:39.696
I<00:32:39.340> love<00:32:39.502> it<00:32:39.583> here.

00:32:40.067 --> 00:32:40.730
My<00:32:40.213> family's<00:32:40.552> here.

00:32:43.692 --> 00:32:45.563
Uh,<00:32:43.773> yeah,<00:32:44.240> uh,<00:32:45.063> so<00:32:45.225> it's<00:32:45.370> home.

00:32:45.854 --> 00:32:47.403
Uh,<00:32:46.128> so<00:32:46.580> it's<00:32:46.677> where<00:32:46.838> I<00:32:46.983> want<00:32:47.080> to<00:32:47.161> be.

00:32:47.951 --> 00:32:58.384
Um,<00:32:49.726> and<00:32:49.807> yeah,<00:32:49.968> it<00:32:50.049> has<00:32:50.178> some,<00:32:50.807> some<00:32:51.033> problems<00:32:51.517> like<00:32:51.743> everywhere,<00:32:52.147> but<00:32:52.260> it's<00:32:52.877> only<00:32:52.990> going<00:32:53.120> to<00:32:53.153> get<00:32:53.299> fixed<00:32:53.931> if<00:32:54.418> I<00:32:54.434> think<00:32:54.596> people<00:32:56.894> who<00:32:57.054> care<00:32:57.215> about<00:32:57.535> it<00:32:57.855> invest<00:32:58.256> in<00:32:58.336> it.

00:32:58.512 --> 00:33:00.147
So<00:32:59.218> that's<00:32:59.442> sort<00:32:59.618> of<00:32:59.650> number<00:32:59.923> one.

00:33:00.580 --> 00:33:11.476
And<00:33:00.644> then<00:33:00.804> two,<00:33:00.900> from<00:33:01.076> a<00:33:01.205> business<00:33:01.461> standpoint,<00:33:02.182> you<00:33:02.278> know,<00:33:02.342> we<00:33:02.487> have<00:33:03.304> evolved<00:33:03.785> to<00:33:03.881> be<00:33:04.345> a<00:33:04.361> virtual-first<00:33:05.804> organization,<00:33:06.589> and<00:33:06.653> that<00:33:06.829> has<00:33:07.310> been<00:33:07.470> incredible<00:33:07.903> because<00:33:08.592> it's<00:33:08.736> given<00:33:08.928> us<00:33:09.137> access<00:33:10.114> to<00:33:10.259> talent<00:33:10.819> all<00:33:10.851> around<00:33:11.076> the<00:33:11.156> country.

00:33:11.797 --> 00:33:14.729
And<00:33:11.957> so<00:33:13.479> that's<00:33:13.704> not<00:33:13.864> something<00:33:14.040> that's<00:33:14.185> going<00:33:14.265> to<00:33:14.345> change.

00:33:15.050 --> 00:33:16.332
We're<00:33:15.178> going<00:33:15.242> to<00:33:15.322> keep<00:33:15.563> leaning<00:33:15.803> into<00:33:16.043> that.

00:33:16.845 --> 00:33:21.171
We<00:33:16.989> invest<00:33:17.486> in,<00:33:17.886> in<00:33:17.966> sort<00:33:18.143> of<00:33:18.383> events<00:33:18.768> to<00:33:18.848> bring<00:33:19.008> people<00:33:19.248> together<00:33:19.713> and<00:33:19.873> teams<00:33:20.194> together<00:33:20.530> to<00:33:20.610> collaborate.

00:33:21.493 --> 00:33:22.913
So<00:33:21.574> it's<00:33:21.719> not<00:33:21.897> sort<00:33:21.977> of<00:33:22.123> virtual<00:33:22.607> only.

00:33:23.591 --> 00:33:33.258
But,<00:33:24.301> you<00:33:24.333> know,<00:33:24.543> one<00:33:24.705> thing<00:33:24.882> I<00:33:24.963> would<00:33:25.124> highlight<00:33:25.528> is<00:33:25.624> despite<00:33:26.076> having<00:33:26.335> gone<00:33:26.803> virtual,<00:33:27.706> there<00:33:27.787> is<00:33:27.868> still<00:33:28.610> a<00:33:28.755> disproportionate<00:33:29.788> concentration<00:33:30.869> of<00:33:31.015> technical<00:33:31.499> talent<00:33:32.467> here<00:33:32.629> in<00:33:32.709> the<00:33:32.790> Bay<00:33:32.855> Area.

00:33:33.742 --> 00:33:43.566
It<00:33:33.823> is<00:33:33.936> simply<00:33:35.130> the<00:33:35.276> world's<00:33:35.857> deepest,<00:33:39.004> you<00:33:39.085> know,<00:33:39.860> talent<00:33:40.295> base<00:33:41.326> for<00:33:42.551> technology<00:33:43.115> businesses.

00:33:43.824 --> 00:33:46.387
Um,<00:33:45.194> and<00:33:45.291> I<00:33:45.371> don't<00:33:45.710> see<00:33:45.855> that<00:33:46.080> changing.

00:33:47.399 --> 00:33:59.802
Um,<00:33:47.807> now<00:33:48.133> what<00:33:48.378> remote<00:33:48.704> work<00:33:48.949> lets,<00:33:49.357> let<00:33:49.471> us<00:33:49.618> do<00:33:49.863> is<00:33:50.091> build<00:33:50.716> a<00:33:50.796> presence<00:33:51.277> now<00:33:52.078> in<00:33:52.254> Toronto<00:33:53.039> and<00:33:53.136> New<00:33:53.200> York<00:33:53.841> and<00:33:53.937> LA,<00:33:54.578> in<00:33:54.674> Seattle,<00:33:55.459> in<00:33:55.684> Austin,<00:33:56.421> very<00:33:56.885> quickly,<00:33:57.606> where<00:33:57.703> there<00:33:57.863> is<00:33:58.167> also<00:33:58.648> a<00:33:58.728> bunch<00:33:58.969> of<00:33:59.065> technical<00:33:59.465> talent.

00:34:00.026 --> 00:34:04.064
And<00:34:00.331> I'm<00:34:00.491> glad<00:34:00.747> that<00:34:00.827> we<00:34:00.972> get<00:34:01.148> to—<00:34:01.773> or<00:34:02.013> in<00:34:02.093> all<00:34:02.190> sorts<00:34:02.430> of<00:34:02.510> talent,<00:34:02.975> but<00:34:03.055> in<00:34:03.087> particular<00:34:03.471> technical<00:34:03.792> talent.

00:34:04.112 --> 00:34:07.766
And<00:34:04.161> I'm<00:34:04.337> happy<00:34:04.513> to<00:34:04.593> get<00:34:04.818> it,<00:34:05.539> but<00:34:05.955> the<00:34:06.035> disproportionate<00:34:06.821> share<00:34:06.917> is<00:34:06.997> still<00:34:07.237> here<00:34:07.333> in<00:34:07.398> the<00:34:07.478> Bay<00:34:07.558> Area.

00:34:07.878 --> 00:34:12.782
So<00:34:08.055> it's<00:34:08.744> kind<00:34:08.904> of—<00:34:09.865> we<00:34:09.961> are<00:34:10.042> virtual,<00:34:10.667> and<00:34:10.763> that<00:34:10.987> is,<00:34:11.404> I<00:34:11.468> think,<00:34:11.628> the<00:34:11.724> best<00:34:11.965> way<00:34:12.109> for<00:34:12.269> us<00:34:12.445> to<00:34:12.525> be.

00:34:13.070 --> 00:34:18.940
Um,<00:34:13.711> but<00:34:13.791> you're<00:34:13.871> still<00:34:14.048> going<00:34:14.144> to<00:34:14.208> see<00:34:15.009> talent<00:34:15.570> concentrated<00:34:17.656> in<00:34:17.800> various<00:34:18.057> places<00:34:18.378> around<00:34:18.603> the<00:34:18.683> world.

00:34:19.085 --> 00:34:20.594
The<00:34:19.181> Bay<00:34:19.245> Area<00:34:19.502> is<00:34:19.583> going<00:34:19.727> to<00:34:19.759> be<00:34:19.888> one<00:34:20.129> for<00:34:20.209> a<00:34:20.225> long<00:34:20.402> time.

00:34:21.735 --> 00:34:22.425
Yeah,<00:34:21.911> for<00:34:22.136> sure.

00:34:22.553 --> 00:34:25.556
What<00:34:22.730> spurred<00:34:23.180> the<00:34:23.276> virtual,<00:34:23.999> like,<00:34:24.240> work<00:34:24.464> from<00:34:24.625> home<00:34:25.203> mindset?

00:34:25.605 --> 00:34:27.901
Was<00:34:25.765> that<00:34:25.990> COVID<00:34:26.343> or<00:34:26.407> were<00:34:26.552> you<00:34:26.648> doing<00:34:26.873> that<00:34:27.210> pre-COVID?

00:34:28.399 --> 00:34:30.920
What<00:34:28.575> kind<00:34:28.800> of<00:34:29.459> spurred<00:34:30.422> you<00:34:30.502> into<00:34:30.663> that?

00:34:31.289 --> 00:34:32.237
Yeah,<00:34:31.369> it<00:34:31.402> was<00:34:31.691> all<00:34:31.851> COVID.

00:34:32.975 --> 00:34:38.194
I<00:34:33.056> was<00:34:34.597> skeptical,<00:34:35.320> admittedly,<00:34:36.364> coming<00:34:36.669> into<00:34:37.953> that.

00:34:38.355 --> 00:34:40.940
I<00:34:38.387> thought<00:34:38.837> you<00:34:39.896> went<00:34:40.057> to<00:34:40.202> work<00:34:40.394> to<00:34:40.475> do<00:34:40.619> work.

00:34:41.342 --> 00:34:43.895
You<00:34:41.502> like<00:34:41.984> put<00:34:42.129> pants<00:34:42.450> on<00:34:42.530> and<00:34:42.707> put<00:34:42.867> your<00:34:42.948> shoes<00:34:43.253> on,<00:34:43.365> you<00:34:43.429> go<00:34:43.526> to<00:34:43.654> work.

00:34:44.380 --> 00:34:52.498
And<00:34:44.866> I<00:34:45.028> was<00:34:45.206> sort<00:34:45.449> of<00:34:47.475> not<00:34:47.799> very<00:34:47.961> sympathetic<00:34:48.836> to<00:34:48.933> those<00:34:49.241> who<00:34:49.678> said<00:34:50.132> that<00:34:50.294> they<00:34:50.456> worked<00:34:50.699> better<00:34:50.894> at<00:34:51.023> home<00:34:51.364> or<00:34:51.623> sort<00:34:51.833> of<00:34:51.996> on<00:34:52.093> their<00:34:52.320> own.

00:34:53.972 --> 00:34:56.322
And<00:34:54.374> COVID<00:34:54.696> really<00:34:54.922> taught<00:34:55.163> me<00:34:55.260> to<00:34:55.646> reassess<00:34:56.129> that.

00:34:57.014 --> 00:35:04.084
You<00:34:57.047> know,<00:34:57.127> what<00:34:57.256> I<00:34:57.336> came<00:34:57.514> to<00:34:57.578> appreciate<00:34:58.157> actually<00:34:58.399> was<00:34:59.043> that<00:34:59.284> per<00:34:59.590> unit<00:34:59.993> hour<00:35:00.315> worked,<00:35:01.055> we<00:35:01.136> were<00:35:01.281> more<00:35:01.538> effective<00:35:02.424> working<00:35:02.746> virtually<00:35:03.390> than<00:35:03.631> in<00:35:03.680> the<00:35:03.793> office.

00:35:05.006 --> 00:35:17.228
Virtual<00:35:05.475> work<00:35:06.122> is,<00:35:07.496> you<00:35:07.529> know,<00:35:07.577> on<00:35:07.674> one<00:35:07.820> hand<00:35:07.981> more<00:35:08.030> transactional,<00:35:10.565> But<00:35:10.725> the<00:35:10.870> upshot<00:35:11.191> of<00:35:11.271> that<00:35:11.432> is<00:35:11.544> it's<00:35:11.753> more<00:35:11.930> efficient,<00:35:13.037> and<00:35:13.920> there's<00:35:14.338> real<00:35:14.643> power<00:35:15.301> in<00:35:15.365> that<00:35:15.542> efficiency<00:35:16.184> and<00:35:16.264> not<00:35:16.409> having<00:35:16.650> to<00:35:16.730> commute.

00:35:17.372 --> 00:35:20.647
And<00:35:17.468> so,<00:35:18.111> you<00:35:18.175> know,<00:35:18.271> I<00:35:18.287> saw<00:35:18.496> productivity<00:35:19.539> go<00:35:19.860> up,<00:35:20.198> not<00:35:20.422> down.

00:35:21.305 --> 00:35:32.881
Um,<00:35:22.429> I<00:35:22.461> think<00:35:22.606> that<00:35:22.766> reflects<00:35:23.103> a<00:35:23.168> bit<00:35:23.633> of<00:35:24.597> kind<00:35:24.773> of<00:35:26.202> things<00:35:26.443> about<00:35:26.635> our<00:35:26.780> culture<00:35:27.181> that<00:35:27.583> play<00:35:27.888> well<00:35:28.145> in<00:35:28.225> a<00:35:28.289> virtual<00:35:28.642> environment—<00:35:29.333> being<00:35:29.509> very<00:35:29.750> deliberate,<00:35:30.713> being<00:35:30.954> very<00:35:31.275> written,<00:35:31.821> being<00:35:32.062> very<00:35:32.239> explicit.

00:35:33.186 --> 00:35:34.021
I<00:35:33.202> think<00:35:33.362> that<00:35:33.507> helps<00:35:33.716> a<00:35:33.828> lot.

00:35:34.101 --> 00:35:34.727
It's<00:35:34.245> critical.

00:35:35.209 --> 00:35:44.143
But,<00:35:35.674> um,<00:35:36.252> I<00:35:36.332> think<00:35:36.493> the<00:35:36.653> best<00:35:37.038> version<00:35:37.599> of<00:35:37.840> us<00:35:38.321> includes<00:35:39.861> or<00:35:40.085> is<00:35:40.262> built<00:35:40.727> on<00:35:41.064> a<00:35:41.208> virtual-first<00:35:42.411> kind<00:35:42.587> of<00:35:43.550> standpoint.

00:35:44.336 --> 00:35:49.853
And<00:35:44.833> now<00:35:44.993> the<00:35:45.137> tension<00:35:45.474> is<00:35:45.699> that<00:35:46.180> in<00:35:46.340> being<00:35:46.597> sort<00:35:46.757> of<00:35:46.822> more<00:35:46.982> transactional,<00:35:47.688> the<00:35:47.784> work<00:35:47.976> is<00:35:48.105> also<00:35:48.345> more<00:35:49.388> isolating.

00:35:50.045 --> 00:35:56.589
It<00:35:50.126> doesn't<00:35:50.430> sort<00:35:50.607> of<00:35:50.927> engender<00:35:51.569> that<00:35:52.291> trust<00:35:52.772> and<00:35:53.173> community<00:35:53.895> and<00:35:54.039> connection<00:35:54.536> that<00:35:54.937> sort<00:35:55.114> of<00:35:55.258> in-person<00:35:55.803> work<00:35:56.044> naturally<00:35:56.381> does.

00:35:56.701 --> 00:36:07.980
And<00:35:56.782> so<00:35:57.343> we've<00:35:57.519> tried<00:35:57.824> to<00:35:57.904> solve<00:35:58.145> for<00:35:58.305> that<00:35:58.546> by<00:35:59.171> getting<00:35:59.348> people<00:35:59.572> together,<00:36:01.096> a<00:36:01.128> leadership<00:36:01.513> team<00:36:01.673> to<00:36:01.818> do<00:36:01.978> planning,<00:36:02.636> a<00:36:02.796> broader<00:36:03.181> organization<00:36:03.823> to<00:36:03.919> do<00:36:04.015> some,<00:36:04.705> you<00:36:04.737> know,<00:36:06.069> department-wide<00:36:07.290> activities.

00:36:08.237 --> 00:36:21.917
And<00:36:08.799> what<00:36:08.959> you<00:36:09.056> find<00:36:09.457> is<00:36:09.618> if<00:36:09.923> you<00:36:11.127> do<00:36:11.288> that<00:36:11.464> deliberately<00:36:12.572> and<00:36:12.990> do<00:36:13.214> that<00:36:13.487> sort<00:36:13.728> of<00:36:13.953> proactively,<00:36:15.077> you<00:36:15.221> can<00:36:15.318> create<00:36:15.864> really<00:36:16.120> strong<00:36:16.602> connection<00:36:17.004> and<00:36:17.148> cohesion<00:36:18.111> in<00:36:18.288> 2,<00:36:18.529> 3<00:36:18.770> days<00:36:19.091> together,<00:36:19.653> sort<00:36:19.894> of<00:36:19.990> a<00:36:20.119> quarter,<00:36:20.857> a<00:36:20.873> month<00:36:21.242> for<00:36:21.323> some<00:36:21.564> teams.

00:36:22.527 --> 00:36:24.502
And<00:36:23.009> that<00:36:23.185> takes<00:36:23.490> you<00:36:23.587> through<00:36:23.828> kind<00:36:24.004> of<00:36:24.068> the<00:36:24.149> whole<00:36:24.373> year.

00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:30.025
And<00:36:24.855> most<00:36:25.048> of<00:36:25.096> the<00:36:25.192> time<00:36:25.433> you<00:36:25.513> get<00:36:25.738> to<00:36:25.835> benefit<00:36:26.637> from<00:36:27.119> the<00:36:27.360> increased<00:36:27.793> speed<00:36:28.243> and<00:36:28.388> increased<00:36:28.741> efficiency<00:36:29.367> of<00:36:29.511> virtual<00:36:29.849> work.

00:36:30.106 --> 00:36:42.920
So<00:36:30.973> I<00:36:31.117> think<00:36:31.438> that,<00:36:31.920> you<00:36:32.000> know,<00:36:32.080> my<00:36:32.257> hypothesis<00:36:32.899> would<00:36:33.044> be<00:36:33.204> that<00:36:33.766> the<00:36:33.847> most<00:36:34.184> effective<00:36:34.810> companies<00:36:36.577> at<00:36:36.689> some<00:36:36.978> scale,<00:36:37.396> call<00:36:37.556> it<00:36:37.797> 500+<00:36:38.681> employees<00:36:39.162> and<00:36:39.307> beyond,<00:36:40.431> will<00:36:40.688> be<00:36:41.314> virtual<00:36:41.892> first<00:36:42.455> ultimately.

00:36:43.996 --> 00:36:46.068
Yeah,<00:36:44.607> I<00:36:44.944> think<00:36:45.120> you're<00:36:45.265> probably<00:36:45.666> right<00:36:45.907> there.

00:36:46.293 --> 00:36:48.525
Certainly<00:36:46.566> seems<00:36:46.871> to<00:36:46.951> be<00:36:47.096> trending<00:36:47.738> in<00:36:47.834> that<00:36:48.075> direction.

00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:57.647
I<00:36:49.344> wonder,<00:36:49.601> like,<00:36:49.826> what<00:36:50.308> it<00:36:50.388> sounds<00:36:50.870> like<00:36:51.030> you're—<00:36:51.865> it's<00:36:52.154> obvious<00:36:52.476> that<00:36:52.636> you're<00:36:52.716> still<00:36:52.957> super<00:36:53.455> engaged,<00:36:54.820> passionate<00:36:55.318> about<00:36:55.623> this<00:36:55.864> business,<00:36:56.587> wanting<00:36:56.972> to<00:36:57.069> grow<00:36:57.454> it.

00:36:57.695 --> 00:37:00.393
You<00:36:57.791> said<00:36:57.968> earlier,<00:36:58.353> like,<00:36:58.578> you<00:36:58.610> still<00:36:58.996> are<00:36:59.092> not<00:36:59.317> completely<00:36:59.702> satisfied<00:37:00.136> again.

00:37:00.762 --> 00:37:03.602
In<00:37:00.922> 2021,<00:37:01.644> you<00:37:01.709> had<00:37:01.805> a<00:37:01.869> $3.2<00:37:02.607> billion<00:37:03.008> evaluation.

00:37:03.650 --> 00:37:08.639
So<00:37:03.730> to<00:37:03.826> have<00:37:03.987> somebody<00:37:04.291> like<00:37:04.468> you<00:37:04.548> saying<00:37:04.773> like,<00:37:04.933> hey,<00:37:05.655> there's<00:37:05.880> more<00:37:06.056> to<00:37:06.201> build,<00:37:06.377> there's<00:37:06.618> more<00:37:06.714> to<00:37:06.858> do,<00:37:07.099> all<00:37:07.179> that<00:37:07.340> type<00:37:07.468> of<00:37:07.516> stuff<00:37:07.741> is<00:37:07.885> really<00:37:08.062> fascinating.

00:37:09.169 --> 00:37:13.083
And<00:37:09.489> I<00:37:09.650> wonder<00:37:09.891> how<00:37:10.051> you<00:37:10.083> think<00:37:10.324> about<00:37:11.591> public<00:37:11.912> markets,<00:37:12.393> IPOing.

00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:26.319
Obviously,<00:37:13.516> I'm<00:37:13.613> not<00:37:13.837> asking<00:37:14.062> you<00:37:14.158> to<00:37:14.639> announce<00:37:14.960> anything<00:37:15.441> or,<00:37:15.746> you<00:37:15.778> know,<00:37:16.885> but<00:37:17.046> I'd<00:37:17.190> love<00:37:17.302> to<00:37:17.367> hear<00:37:17.543> like<00:37:17.704> your<00:37:17.848> thinking<00:37:18.650> on<00:37:18.810> like<00:37:20.254> going<00:37:20.639> public<00:37:21.137> versus<00:37:21.442> staying<00:37:21.859> private,<00:37:23.463> kind<00:37:23.688> of<00:37:24.008> what<00:37:24.121> those<00:37:24.329> discussions<00:37:24.827> are<00:37:24.907> like<00:37:25.147> with,<00:37:25.388> with<00:37:25.565> investors.

00:37:26.672 --> 00:37:35.526
And<00:37:26.817> obviously,<00:37:27.140> like,<00:37:27.302> the<00:37:27.463> current<00:37:27.706> market<00:37:28.045> conditions<00:37:28.514> probably<00:37:28.918> don't<00:37:29.338> make<00:37:29.515> a<00:37:29.580> lot<00:37:29.822> of<00:37:29.855> sense,<00:37:30.226> but<00:37:30.533> what<00:37:30.856> overall,<00:37:31.842> how<00:37:32.003> are<00:37:32.149> you<00:37:32.310> thinking<00:37:32.666> about<00:37:33.522> an<00:37:33.619> IPO<00:37:34.492> versus<00:37:34.831> staying<00:37:35.154> private?

00:37:38.683 --> 00:37:48.117
Um,<00:37:38.763> look,<00:37:39.408> we<00:37:39.585> assume<00:37:40.052> that<00:37:40.197> at<00:37:40.294> some<00:37:40.535> point<00:37:40.761> it'll<00:37:41.985> be<00:37:42.227> the<00:37:42.372> right<00:37:42.629> thing<00:37:42.855> to<00:37:42.951> do,<00:37:43.419> um,<00:37:44.482> which<00:37:44.707> will<00:37:44.820> reflect<00:37:45.593> us<00:37:45.997> feeling<00:37:47.874> ready.

00:37:48.343 --> 00:38:02.184
And<00:37:48.926> ready<00:37:49.104> not<00:37:49.395> like<00:37:49.589> in<00:37:50.043> like<00:37:50.609> operationally,<00:37:51.273> could<00:37:51.434> we<00:37:51.515> do<00:37:51.742> it,<00:37:52.146> um,<00:37:52.405> but<00:37:52.567> much<00:37:52.810> more<00:37:53.833> do<00:37:54.057> we<00:37:54.234> feel<00:37:55.660> like<00:37:56.221> we<00:37:56.317> have<00:37:56.558> put<00:37:56.798> the<00:37:56.959> pieces<00:37:57.760> together<00:37:58.802> that<00:37:58.962> gives<00:37:59.283> us<00:37:59.588> what<00:37:59.764> we<00:37:59.924> want<00:38:00.485> to<00:38:00.646> be<00:38:00.822> a<00:38:00.886> successful<00:38:01.527> public<00:38:01.848> company?

00:38:02.970 --> 00:38:04.477
And<00:38:03.050> then<00:38:03.210> two,<00:38:03.451> obviously<00:38:03.707> it's<00:38:03.852> the<00:38:03.916> market<00:38:04.333> too.

00:38:04.733 --> 00:38:11.867
You<00:38:04.974> want<00:38:05.118> to<00:38:05.198> go<00:38:05.358> out<00:38:05.535> in<00:38:05.599> a<00:38:05.679> time<00:38:06.000> where<00:38:06.256> investors<00:38:06.737> are<00:38:06.977> interested<00:38:07.683> and<00:38:07.939> looking<00:38:08.725> for<00:38:08.917> these<00:38:09.077> kind<00:38:09.286> of<00:38:09.366> investment<00:38:09.783> opportunities,<00:38:10.344> which<00:38:10.729> now<00:38:10.905> is<00:38:11.065> very<00:38:11.225> much<00:38:11.386> not<00:38:11.610> one<00:38:11.706> of<00:38:11.771> them.

00:38:12.251 --> 00:38:16.163
Um,<00:38:13.085> so<00:38:13.774> I<00:38:13.790> don't<00:38:13.967> know<00:38:14.095> exactly<00:38:14.496> when<00:38:14.656> that<00:38:15.137> changes<00:38:15.554> and<00:38:15.650> evolves.

00:38:16.419 --> 00:38:20.074
Um,<00:38:17.093> I'll<00:38:17.237> tell<00:38:17.557> you,<00:38:18.038> I,<00:38:18.455> I'm<00:38:18.663> glad<00:38:19.160> we're<00:38:19.257> not<00:38:19.401> public<00:38:19.802> right<00:38:19.898> now.

00:38:20.603 --> 00:38:29.339
I<00:38:20.667> think<00:38:20.763> there's<00:38:21.004> big<00:38:21.244> benefits<00:38:21.725> to<00:38:21.869> us<00:38:22.046> being<00:38:22.222> able<00:38:22.366> to<00:38:22.527> sort<00:38:22.767> of<00:38:22.847> stay<00:38:23.088> focused<00:38:23.569> on<00:38:23.649> the<00:38:23.793> long<00:38:24.034> term<00:38:24.370> and<00:38:24.514> really<00:38:24.691> invest<00:38:25.108> and<00:38:25.653> do<00:38:25.813> the<00:38:25.877> right<00:38:26.069> things,<00:38:26.374> though<00:38:26.855> we<00:38:26.999> do<00:38:27.095> take<00:38:27.400> real<00:38:27.656> lessons<00:38:28.121> from<00:38:28.554> the<00:38:28.682> public<00:38:29.003> markets.

00:38:29.403 --> 00:38:32.593
And<00:38:30.060> I<00:38:30.205> think<00:38:31.423> really<00:38:31.647> all<00:38:31.824> companies<00:38:32.224> should.

00:38:32.930 --> 00:38:52.276
And<00:38:33.587> I<00:38:33.747> think<00:38:33.907> what<00:38:34.052> they're<00:38:34.148> saying,<00:38:34.549> and<00:38:34.629> saying<00:38:34.869> very<00:38:35.110> clearly,<00:38:35.510> is<00:38:35.735> like,<00:38:36.392> what<00:38:36.552> matters<00:38:37.177> isn't<00:38:37.418> growth<00:38:37.690> at<00:38:37.818> all<00:38:37.915> costs,<00:38:39.021> it<00:38:39.117> is<00:38:40.143> profitable<00:38:40.623> growth<00:38:41.345> and<00:38:41.842> sort<00:38:42.098> of<00:38:42.242> businesses<00:38:42.868> that<00:38:43.108> create<00:38:43.845> sort<00:38:43.990> of<00:38:44.086> positive<00:38:44.567> returns<00:38:45.288> and<00:38:45.432> do<00:38:45.544> so<00:38:45.929> in<00:38:46.009> a<00:38:46.089> way<00:38:46.250> that<00:38:46.394> can<00:38:46.490> be<00:38:46.730> compounded<00:38:47.516> for<00:38:47.676> the<00:38:47.756> long<00:38:48.013> term<00:38:48.878> and<00:38:48.974> can<00:38:49.135> be<00:38:49.231> scalable<00:38:49.936> and,<00:38:50.257> and<00:38:50.433> scalably<00:38:51.299> sort<00:38:51.475> of<00:38:51.603> cost<00:38:51.876> efficiently.

00:38:52.357 --> 00:38:55.567
So<00:38:53.464> in<00:38:53.544> some<00:38:53.721> sense,<00:38:54.010> they're<00:38:54.106> like<00:38:54.427> meat<00:38:54.604> and<00:38:54.732> potato<00:38:55.150> stuff.

00:38:55.695 --> 00:38:59.405
Like,<00:38:55.952> there's<00:38:56.129> no<00:38:56.370> surprise<00:38:57.783> in<00:38:58.682> what<00:38:58.843> they're<00:38:59.003> looking<00:38:59.244> for.

00:38:59.469 --> 00:39:02.102
It's<00:38:59.581> kind<00:38:59.742> of<00:39:00.047> bread<00:39:00.272> and<00:39:00.368> butter,<00:39:01.636> good<00:39:01.797> business.

00:39:02.295 --> 00:39:04.109
And<00:39:02.439> so<00:39:03.338> I<00:39:03.483> think<00:39:03.643> that's<00:39:03.820> healthy.

00:39:04.446 --> 00:39:10.500
I<00:39:04.687> think<00:39:04.864> Silicon<00:39:05.249> Valley<00:39:05.570> had<00:39:05.667> gotten<00:39:06.213> unhealthy<00:39:07.096> in<00:39:07.192> its<00:39:07.353> sort<00:39:07.658> of,<00:39:08.059> uh,<00:39:09.279> sort<00:39:09.456> of<00:39:09.600> pursuit<00:39:10.002> of<00:39:10.227> growth.

00:39:10.564 --> 00:39:23.297
And<00:39:10.660> not<00:39:10.789> just<00:39:11.030> growth,<00:39:11.367> but<00:39:11.672> it<00:39:11.704> sort<00:39:11.848> of<00:39:11.929> became<00:39:12.250> past<00:39:12.555> that<00:39:12.715> into<00:39:12.972> sort<00:39:13.117> of<00:39:13.197> just<00:39:13.358> like<00:39:14.080> hype,<00:39:14.578> uh,<00:39:15.044> and<00:39:15.461> vanity,<00:39:16.168> uh,<00:39:16.649> over<00:39:16.826> and<00:39:16.906> above<00:39:17.163> sort<00:39:17.388> of<00:39:17.468> substantive<00:39:19.861> value<00:39:20.439> that<00:39:20.519> had<00:39:20.599> been<00:39:20.824> created<00:39:21.225> for<00:39:21.322> customers<00:39:21.884> and<00:39:21.964> then<00:39:22.125> ultimately<00:39:22.606> for<00:39:22.751> shareholders.

00:39:23.473 --> 00:39:25.898
And<00:39:24.067> so<00:39:24.597> I,<00:39:24.918> I<00:39:25.079> think<00:39:25.320> this<00:39:25.497> is<00:39:25.641> great.

00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:30.121
I<00:39:26.203> think<00:39:26.364> it's<00:39:26.524> the<00:39:26.556> way<00:39:26.701> it<00:39:26.765> kind<00:39:27.006> of<00:39:28.066> by<00:39:28.226> and<00:39:28.371> large<00:39:28.772> should<00:39:29.029> be<00:39:29.430> and<00:39:29.655> always<00:39:29.976> is.

00:39:30.779 --> 00:39:38.278
And<00:39:31.903> yeah,<00:39:32.080> there's<00:39:32.256> a<00:39:32.385> reckoning<00:39:32.963> because<00:39:33.284> of<00:39:33.316> that,<00:39:33.685> because<00:39:34.167> the<00:39:34.312> world<00:39:34.954> 3,<00:39:35.114> 4<00:39:35.275> years<00:39:35.468> ago<00:39:36.014> was<00:39:36.977> telling<00:39:37.218> people<00:39:37.523> to<00:39:37.571> do<00:39:37.619> something<00:39:37.924> very<00:39:38.021> different.

00:39:39.145 --> 00:39:39.899
What<00:39:39.193> about<00:39:39.369> your<00:39:39.530> own<00:39:39.626> future?

00:39:39.947 --> 00:39:43.705
And<00:39:40.044> again,<00:39:40.413> I—<00:39:40.895> you're<00:39:40.991> super<00:39:41.312> engaged,<00:39:41.714> super<00:39:42.035> passionate,<00:39:42.533> seem<00:39:42.757> to<00:39:42.838> be<00:39:42.998> all<00:39:43.223> in<00:39:43.319> on<00:39:43.464> this.

00:39:44.106 --> 00:39:45.615
But<00:39:44.186> you've<00:39:44.283> been<00:39:44.443> doing<00:39:44.604> it<00:39:44.668> for<00:39:44.796> more<00:39:45.021> than<00:39:45.149> a<00:39:45.165> decade.

00:39:45.663 --> 00:39:53.383
I<00:39:45.727> mean,<00:39:46.209> how—<00:39:47.156> is<00:39:47.236> there<00:39:47.717> ever<00:39:47.894> a<00:39:47.958> point<00:39:48.135> where<00:39:48.215> you're<00:39:48.295> like,<00:39:48.456> man,<00:39:49.724> uh,<00:39:50.302> let's<00:39:50.767> go<00:39:50.831> do<00:39:50.960> something<00:39:51.329> else,<00:39:52.388> let's<00:39:52.661> stop<00:39:52.950> doing<00:39:53.191> this?

00:39:53.496 --> 00:39:55.197
I<00:39:53.528> mean,<00:39:54.234> how<00:39:54.394> do<00:39:54.475> you<00:39:54.619> feel<00:39:54.860> about<00:39:55.036> that?

00:39:56.481 --> 00:39:58.327
Maybe<00:39:56.690> I'll<00:39:56.882> have<00:39:57.043> that<00:39:57.267> thought<00:39:57.765> at<00:39:57.861> some<00:39:58.070> point.

00:39:58.551 --> 00:40:08.487
Um,<00:40:00.076> you<00:40:00.108> know,<00:40:00.156> I<00:40:00.317> can't<00:40:00.494> say<00:40:00.815> that<00:40:01.055> every<00:40:01.312> single<00:40:01.681> day,<00:40:02.243> uh,<00:40:02.500> has<00:40:02.821> been,<00:40:03.527> uh,<00:40:04.426> you<00:40:04.570> know,<00:40:04.988> like<00:40:05.614> easy<00:40:06.336> and,<00:40:06.769> and<00:40:06.994> fun<00:40:07.636> and<00:40:07.861> lighthearted.

00:40:08.984 --> 00:40:12.499
Uh,<00:40:09.305> there's<00:40:09.546> been<00:40:09.739> some<00:40:10.284> obviously<00:40:10.621> very<00:40:10.830> hard<00:40:11.071> moments<00:40:11.408> and<00:40:11.488> very<00:40:11.713> challenging<00:40:12.130> times.

00:40:13.012 --> 00:40:20.277
But<00:40:14.440> I'm<00:40:15.001> ultimately<00:40:15.578> motivated<00:40:16.220> by<00:40:17.903> the<00:40:18.048> impact<00:40:18.545> that<00:40:19.667> we<00:40:19.812> can<00:40:19.972> have.

00:40:20.469 --> 00:40:21.944
Like,<00:40:20.694> how<00:40:21.191> big<00:40:21.431> can<00:40:21.592> we<00:40:21.752> get?

00:40:21.992 --> 00:40:23.452
How<00:40:22.073> many<00:40:22.297> customers<00:40:22.858> can<00:40:22.955> we<00:40:23.051> serve?

00:40:23.516 --> 00:40:24.735
How<00:40:23.580> many<00:40:23.821> pros<00:40:24.157> can<00:40:24.302> we<00:40:24.462> help?

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.433
How<00:40:25.600> much<00:40:25.841> of<00:40:25.905> this<00:40:26.146> market<00:40:26.482> can<00:40:26.627> we<00:40:26.707> help<00:40:27.044> facilitate<00:40:27.685> in<00:40:28.150> a<00:40:28.808> better<00:40:29.209> way?

00:40:29.529 --> 00:40:32.255
In<00:40:29.674> a—<00:40:30.716> in<00:40:30.812> a—<00:40:31.919> yeah.

00:40:32.656 --> 00:40:35.992
So<00:40:33.538> that<00:40:33.763> to<00:40:33.827> me<00:40:33.955> is<00:40:34.083> still<00:40:35.559> motivating.

00:40:36.248 --> 00:40:40.668
Um,<00:40:36.906> maybe<00:40:37.130> at<00:40:37.210> some<00:40:37.387> point<00:40:37.884> something<00:40:38.253> else<00:40:38.413> will<00:40:38.493> come<00:40:38.670> along,<00:40:39.151> but<00:40:40.118> I<00:40:40.134> don't<00:40:40.344> think<00:40:40.506> so.

00:40:41.412 --> 00:40:59.739
You<00:40:41.493> know,<00:40:41.574> one<00:40:41.655> of<00:40:41.752> the<00:40:41.800> things<00:40:42.043> that<00:40:42.641> early<00:40:43.013> on<00:40:44.890> got<00:40:45.116> me<00:40:45.294> and<00:40:45.440> us<00:40:45.618> very<00:40:45.844> excited<00:40:46.103> about<00:40:46.346> this<00:40:46.572> idea<00:40:47.074> was<00:40:48.195> its<00:40:49.169> unlimited<00:40:50.078> potential<00:40:50.809> in<00:40:50.955> some<00:40:51.150> sense<00:40:52.904> in<00:40:53.066> helping<00:40:53.975> customers<00:40:54.544> find<00:40:54.787> and<00:40:54.933> hire<00:40:55.112> pros,<00:40:55.819> in<00:40:56.317> sort<00:40:56.493> of<00:40:56.863> mediating<00:40:57.521> the<00:40:57.666> exchange<00:40:58.550> of<00:40:58.791> time<00:40:59.273> for<00:40:59.417> money.

00:41:00.249 --> 00:41:04.799
You<00:41:00.269> know,<00:41:00.349> this<00:41:00.510> is<00:41:00.654> one<00:41:00.815> of<00:41:00.960> the,<00:41:01.200> like,<00:41:01.940> core<00:41:02.357> things<00:41:02.887> that<00:41:03.048> happens<00:41:03.787> in<00:41:04.430> society.

00:41:05.176 --> 00:41:05.593
Uh,<00:41:05.352> right.

00:41:06.138 --> 00:41:10.534
And<00:41:06.299> yet<00:41:06.491> it's<00:41:06.668> something<00:41:06.957> that<00:41:07.101> historically<00:41:07.679> has<00:41:07.903> had<00:41:08.320> very<00:41:08.561> little<00:41:08.882> to<00:41:08.978> no<00:41:09.203> technology<00:41:09.925> underpinning<00:41:10.470> it.

00:41:10.968 --> 00:41:17.112
It's<00:41:11.192> been<00:41:11.609> very<00:41:12.075> analog,<00:41:12.877> very<00:41:13.214> antiquated,<00:41:14.321> and<00:41:15.380> I<00:41:15.476> still<00:41:15.701> believe<00:41:15.877> that's<00:41:16.102> gonna<00:41:16.326> totally<00:41:16.647> change.

00:41:17.289 --> 00:41:20.482
And<00:41:17.690> we're<00:41:17.786> gonna<00:41:18.011> look<00:41:18.187> back<00:41:18.492> on<00:41:18.572> that<00:41:18.653> and<00:41:18.765> say,<00:41:18.974> wow,<00:41:19.551> those<00:41:19.712> were<00:41:19.792> the<00:41:19.872> Stone<00:41:20.177> Ages.

00:41:20.674 --> 00:41:30.236
I<00:41:20.754> couldn't<00:41:21.075> easily<00:41:21.380> find<00:41:21.877> and<00:41:22.102> access<00:41:22.664> all<00:41:22.904> the<00:41:22.984> amazing<00:41:24.027> people<00:41:24.348> in<00:41:24.380> my<00:41:24.525> community<00:41:25.231> and,<00:41:25.487> and<00:41:25.712> all<00:41:25.808> their<00:41:26.033> talents<00:41:26.594> to<00:41:26.691> make<00:41:27.011> my<00:41:27.236> life<00:41:27.557> richer<00:41:27.958> and<00:41:28.054> their<00:41:28.279> lives<00:41:28.536> richer<00:41:29.338> at<00:41:29.482> the<00:41:29.579> click<00:41:29.755> of<00:41:29.835> a<00:41:29.964> button.

00:41:30.365 --> 00:41:33.501
What<00:41:30.477> a<00:41:30.702> what<00:41:30.799> a<00:41:31.009> poor,<00:41:32.239> worse<00:41:32.628> world<00:41:32.951> to<00:41:33.048> be<00:41:33.210> part<00:41:33.469> of.

00:41:33.631 --> 00:41:39.875
So,<00:41:34.246> um,<00:41:35.621> yeah,<00:41:36.026> I'm<00:41:36.754> still<00:41:37.013> excited<00:41:37.482> to<00:41:37.822> bring<00:41:38.048> that<00:41:38.226> future<00:41:38.550> forward<00:41:38.971> and<00:41:39.116> make<00:41:39.343> that<00:41:39.456> a<00:41:39.570> reality.

00:41:39.923 --> 00:41:43.782
And,<00:41:40.647> you<00:41:40.807> know,<00:41:41.049> if<00:41:41.145> and<00:41:41.290> when<00:41:41.515> it<00:41:41.611> does<00:41:41.917> happen,<00:41:42.319> we'll<00:41:42.656> maybe<00:41:42.898> think<00:41:43.074> about<00:41:43.316> something<00:41:43.621> else.

00:41:43.862 --> 00:41:48.091
But,<00:41:44.811> uh,<00:41:45.775> yeah,<00:41:47.062> don't<00:41:47.255> have<00:41:47.399> a<00:41:47.415> good<00:41:47.624> answer<00:41:47.850> otherwise.

00:41:49.636 --> 00:41:54.369
How<00:41:49.878> has<00:41:50.296> and<00:41:50.377> how<00:41:50.682> will<00:41:51.246> artificial<00:41:51.825> intelligence,<00:41:52.872> um,<00:41:53.515> affect<00:41:53.902> your<00:41:53.998> business?

00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:04.978
So<00:41:56.091> I<00:41:56.270> think,<00:41:56.824> uh,<00:41:57.557> it's<00:41:57.720> worth<00:41:59.128> talking<00:41:59.388> about<00:41:59.535> what<00:41:59.860> artificial<00:42:00.412> intelligence<00:42:01.225> is<00:42:01.403> and<00:42:01.550> like<00:42:01.793> what<00:42:01.907> has<00:42:02.687> changed<00:42:03.337> over<00:42:03.516> this<00:42:03.743> last<00:42:04.068> little<00:42:04.491> period.

00:42:06.219 --> 00:42:31.404
Um,<00:42:06.848> you<00:42:06.929> know,<00:42:06.993> I<00:42:07.090> think<00:42:07.639> folks<00:42:08.203> who<00:42:08.526> are<00:42:08.704> not,<00:42:09.898> uh,<00:42:13.125> aware<00:42:13.480> of<00:42:13.625> what<00:42:13.803> sort<00:42:13.964> of<00:42:14.029> like<00:42:14.174> computer<00:42:14.594> engineering<00:42:15.078> is<00:42:15.255> or<00:42:15.320> computer<00:42:15.546> science<00:42:15.948> is<00:42:16.222> are<00:42:16.286> sometimes<00:42:16.608> surprised<00:42:17.397> to<00:42:17.478> learn<00:42:18.460> that<00:42:18.702> computers<00:42:19.346> are<00:42:19.426> programmed<00:42:20.231> with<00:42:20.698> just<00:42:21.133> a<00:42:21.278> text<00:42:21.745> file<00:42:22.630> and<00:42:22.968> basically<00:42:23.468> a<00:42:23.532> foreign<00:42:24.015> language<00:42:24.740> that<00:42:24.901> is<00:42:25.137> really<00:42:25.336> kind<00:42:25.587> of<00:42:26.082> explicit<00:42:27.188> and<00:42:28.951> verbose<00:42:30.009> to<00:42:30.234> tell<00:42:30.490> the<00:42:30.586> computer<00:42:31.051> what<00:42:31.211> to<00:42:31.292> do.

00:42:31.596 --> 00:42:35.956
And<00:42:32.077> really<00:42:32.237> you're<00:42:32.317> saying<00:42:32.718> if<00:42:32.894> this,<00:42:33.135> then<00:42:33.359> that,<00:42:34.241> you<00:42:34.337> know,<00:42:34.658> if<00:42:34.802> this<00:42:34.962> happens,<00:42:35.379> then<00:42:35.539> do<00:42:35.684> that.

00:42:36.004 --> 00:42:37.030
If<00:42:36.164> not,<00:42:36.405> do<00:42:36.501> this<00:42:36.741> other<00:42:36.886> thing.

00:42:37.206 --> 00:42:39.867
And<00:42:37.319> it's<00:42:37.767> historically<00:42:38.569> incredibly<00:42:39.290> explicit.

00:42:40.589 --> 00:42:47.898
You<00:42:40.669> can<00:42:41.550> create<00:42:41.855> an<00:42:41.935> incredibly<00:42:42.496> rich<00:42:42.849> system<00:42:43.314> that<00:42:43.538> way,<00:42:44.195> but<00:42:44.516> you,<00:42:44.836> the<00:42:44.981> programmer,<00:42:45.798> are<00:42:45.878> telling<00:42:46.199> the<00:42:46.279> computer<00:42:46.840> and<00:42:46.920> the<00:42:47.000> system<00:42:47.401> what<00:42:47.625> to<00:42:47.786> do.

00:42:49.389 --> 00:42:59.758
What<00:42:49.661> sort<00:42:49.870> of<00:42:49.966> this<00:42:50.767> first<00:42:51.072> machine<00:42:51.392> learning<00:42:51.729> and<00:42:51.873> now<00:42:52.050> sort<00:42:52.226> of<00:42:52.514> AI<00:42:53.412> world<00:42:54.277> has<00:42:54.854> changed<00:42:55.720> is<00:42:55.880> that<00:42:56.697> you<00:42:56.809> don't<00:42:57.338> tell<00:42:57.803> the<00:42:57.899> computer<00:42:59.245> what<00:42:59.421> to<00:42:59.582> do.

00:43:00.687 --> 00:43:03.251
You<00:43:00.848> create<00:43:01.104> a<00:43:01.184> way<00:43:01.344> for<00:43:01.569> it<00:43:01.745> to<00:43:02.065> learn<00:43:02.787> what<00:43:03.011> to<00:43:03.107> do.

00:43:04.373 --> 00:43:18.539
And<00:43:04.469> in<00:43:04.694> learning,<00:43:05.735> you<00:43:05.895> can<00:43:06.072> create<00:43:06.937> sort<00:43:07.193> of<00:43:08.572> smart<00:43:10.014> systems,<00:43:10.623> intelligence,<00:43:11.584> wisdom,<00:43:12.866> in<00:43:13.027> a<00:43:13.123> way<00:43:13.523> that<00:43:14.020> simply<00:43:15.591> having<00:43:16.071> us<00:43:16.248> codify<00:43:16.712> everything<00:43:17.754> would<00:43:17.850> be<00:43:17.946> impossible.

00:43:18.812 --> 00:43:28.089
And<00:43:18.908> so<00:43:19.116> you<00:43:19.228> now<00:43:19.517> have<00:43:19.613> systems<00:43:19.997> that<00:43:20.093> are<00:43:20.158> extracting<00:43:20.975> wisdom<00:43:21.600> and<00:43:22.176> knowledge<00:43:23.298> and<00:43:23.394> intelligence<00:43:24.324> from<00:43:24.580> the<00:43:24.740> world<00:43:25.045> around<00:43:25.365> them<00:43:26.022> and<00:43:26.166> then<00:43:26.647> able<00:43:26.919> to<00:43:27.063> apply<00:43:27.464> that<00:43:27.784> back.

00:43:29.146 --> 00:43:30.524
And<00:43:29.227> that's<00:43:29.467> like<00:43:29.771> magical,<00:43:30.412> right?

00:43:30.572 --> 00:43:31.358
That's<00:43:30.829> world-changing.

00:43:31.694 --> 00:43:33.921
Um,<00:43:32.816> I<00:43:32.832> think<00:43:33.008> it'll<00:43:33.216> touch<00:43:33.553> everything.

00:43:34.114 --> 00:43:39.081
And<00:43:34.658> the<00:43:34.738> question<00:43:35.059> is<00:43:35.155> not<00:43:35.476> like<00:43:36.902> when<00:43:37.238> and<00:43:37.462> how,<00:43:37.799> it's<00:43:37.991> like,<00:43:38.296> it'll<00:43:38.536> be<00:43:38.680> everywhere.

00:43:39.385 --> 00:43:50.524
And<00:43:40.106> the<00:43:40.202> simple<00:43:40.683> way<00:43:40.859> to,<00:43:41.148> I<00:43:41.164> think,<00:43:41.388> think<00:43:41.564> about<00:43:41.805> it<00:43:41.949> is<00:43:42.109> like,<00:43:43.022> if<00:43:43.231> I<00:43:43.391> could<00:43:43.503> apply<00:43:43.888> more<00:43:44.208> intelligence,<00:43:44.993> more<00:43:45.266> thoughtfulness,<00:43:46.131> more<00:43:49.020> wisdom,<00:43:49.359> like<00:43:49.618> what<00:43:49.780> could<00:43:49.941> I<00:43:49.958> make<00:43:50.249> better?

00:43:50.896 --> 00:43:53.629
And<00:43:50.977> like,<00:43:51.171> man,<00:43:51.381> you<00:43:51.478> can<00:43:51.575> make<00:43:51.801> a<00:43:51.866> list<00:43:52.125> a<00:43:52.141> mile<00:43:52.448> long<00:43:52.934> for<00:43:53.160> any<00:43:53.257> company.

00:43:53.758 --> 00:44:10.113
It's<00:43:54.114> like<00:43:54.616> all<00:43:54.794> these<00:43:55.036> things<00:43:55.327> have<00:43:55.424> been<00:43:55.586> hard-coded<00:43:56.249> or<00:43:56.476> all<00:43:56.654> these<00:43:56.896> things<00:43:57.220> we're<00:43:57.301> doing<00:43:58.109> in<00:43:58.255> a<00:43:58.320> sort<00:43:58.508> of<00:43:58.680> like,<00:44:01.660> fairly<00:44:01.998> kind<00:44:02.192> of<00:44:02.337> like<00:44:03.966> assembly<00:44:04.579> line<00:44:04.902> way<00:44:05.644> where<00:44:05.983> now<00:44:06.370> we<00:44:06.515> can<00:44:06.757> leverage<00:44:07.596> something<00:44:07.903> that's<00:44:08.064> much<00:44:08.306> more<00:44:08.467> flexible<00:44:08.951> and<00:44:09.096> much<00:44:09.338> more<00:44:09.516> intelligent.

00:44:10.976 --> 00:44:24.323
So<00:44:11.941> everywhere,<00:44:13.102> whether<00:44:13.363> it's<00:44:13.762> customer<00:44:14.163> interacting<00:44:14.709> with<00:44:14.950> us,<00:44:15.447> whether<00:44:15.704> it's<00:44:16.073> us<00:44:16.314> sort<00:44:16.507> of<00:44:16.651> thinking<00:44:16.956> about<00:44:17.149> our<00:44:17.438> own<00:44:17.534> data<00:44:18.160> and<00:44:18.240> the<00:44:18.336> insights<00:44:18.898> inside<00:44:19.219> of<00:44:19.364> that,<00:44:20.166> whether<00:44:20.423> it's<00:44:20.567> how<00:44:20.728> we<00:44:20.824> think<00:44:21.081> about,<00:44:21.932> um,<00:44:23.055> yeah,<00:44:23.216> helping<00:44:23.488> our<00:44:23.713> pros.

00:44:24.596 --> 00:44:26.843
Uh,<00:44:25.158> there's<00:44:25.479> sort<00:44:25.655> of<00:44:25.784> a<00:44:25.800> long,<00:44:26.345> long<00:44:26.586> list.

00:44:26.923 --> 00:44:29.331
And,<00:44:27.389> you<00:44:27.421> know,<00:44:27.469> I<00:44:27.565> think<00:44:27.950> the<00:44:28.127> answer<00:44:28.384> is<00:44:28.994> everywhere.

00:44:29.636 --> 00:44:30.615
Um,<00:44:29.957> this<00:44:30.197> will<00:44:30.294> be<00:44:30.454> everywhere.

00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:40.325
Like,<00:44:31.096> anywhere<00:44:31.401> there's<00:44:31.578> a<00:44:31.642> smart<00:44:32.123> human<00:44:32.605> today<00:44:33.263> at<00:44:33.359> the<00:44:33.439> company<00:44:33.889> working<00:44:34.146> to<00:44:34.226> solve<00:44:34.932> a<00:44:35.028> problem<00:44:35.847> for<00:44:35.991> our<00:44:36.152> customers<00:44:36.553> and<00:44:36.698> pros<00:44:37.436> is<00:44:37.580> likely<00:44:37.917> a<00:44:37.982> place<00:44:38.399> where<00:44:38.784> AI<00:44:39.683> Could<00:44:39.763> make<00:44:39.940> a<00:44:39.988> difference.

00:44:41.289 --> 00:44:43.248
Marco,<00:44:41.610> you've<00:44:41.706> been<00:44:42.188> so<00:44:42.413> generous<00:44:42.718> with<00:44:42.878> your<00:44:42.975> time.

00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:45.431
Thank<00:44:43.537> you<00:44:43.617> so<00:44:43.874> much<00:44:44.436> for<00:44:44.901> coming<00:44:45.207> on.

00:44:45.544 --> 00:44:48.081
We<00:44:45.768> end<00:44:45.945> every<00:44:46.266> interview<00:44:46.587> with<00:44:46.812> one—<00:44:47.053> with<00:44:47.214> the<00:44:47.294> same<00:44:47.615> question.

00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:53.347
At<00:44:48.771> CEO.com,<00:44:49.381> we<00:44:49.478> believe<00:44:49.879> the<00:44:49.959> chances<00:44:50.666> that<00:44:50.987> we<00:44:51.324> give<00:44:51.645> are<00:44:51.725> just<00:44:51.966> as<00:44:52.047> important<00:44:52.368> as<00:44:52.512> the<00:44:52.593> chances<00:44:52.994> we<00:44:53.090> take.

00:44:53.476 --> 00:44:56.350
Obviously,<00:44:53.829> you<00:44:53.893> took<00:44:54.070> a<00:44:54.182> huge<00:44:54.455> chance<00:44:55.274> starting<00:44:55.740> Thumbtack.

00:44:56.687 --> 00:45:01.970
I<00:44:56.767> wonder<00:44:56.928> if<00:44:57.008> there's<00:44:57.185> anyone<00:44:57.442> in<00:44:57.506> your<00:44:57.731> life,<00:44:58.068> as<00:44:58.148> you,<00:44:58.453> as<00:44:58.550> you<00:44:58.694> think<00:44:58.871> back<00:44:59.208> or<00:44:59.417> over<00:44:59.529> your<00:44:59.818> career,<00:45:00.781> who<00:45:01.022> gave<00:45:01.359> you<00:45:01.520> a<00:45:01.600> chance.

00:45:03.045 --> 00:45:03.367
Yeah.

00:45:06.865 --> 00:45:09.749
You<00:45:06.946> know,<00:45:07.125> I<00:45:07.533> had—<00:45:09.000> I<00:45:09.065> was<00:45:09.228> very<00:45:09.472> lucky.

00:45:10.043 --> 00:45:12.227
Um,<00:45:10.711> you<00:45:10.792> ever—<00:45:11.184> you<00:45:11.216> know<00:45:11.363> the<00:45:11.428> name<00:45:11.689> Bill<00:45:11.917> Campbell?

00:45:13.197 --> 00:45:15.527
Oh<00:45:13.214> yeah,<00:45:13.521> sort<00:45:13.618> of<00:45:14.087> trillion-dollar<00:45:14.750> coach,<00:45:15.316> right?

00:45:15.705 --> 00:45:22.320
And<00:45:16.044> he<00:45:16.109> was<00:45:16.222> a<00:45:16.352> coach<00:45:16.610> to<00:45:16.691> a<00:45:16.708> lot<00:45:16.918> of,<00:45:17.322> uh,<00:45:18.406> execs<00:45:18.794> across<00:45:18.988> Silicon<00:45:19.344> Valley,<00:45:19.619> and<00:45:19.748> he<00:45:19.829> was<00:45:19.943> a<00:45:20.007> football<00:45:20.331> coach<00:45:21.382> at<00:45:21.528> Columbia<00:45:21.932> prior<00:45:22.126> to<00:45:22.240> that.

00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:31.379
Um,<00:45:23.064> he<00:45:23.242> was<00:45:23.711> also<00:45:24.051> in<00:45:24.132> his<00:45:24.213> spare<00:45:24.536> time<00:45:25.103> an<00:45:25.491> 8th<00:45:25.733> grade<00:45:26.542> flag<00:45:26.882> football<00:45:27.205> coach,<00:45:29.211> and<00:45:29.551> he<00:45:29.696> was<00:45:29.890> my<00:45:30.279> 8th<00:45:30.505> grade<00:45:30.748> flag<00:45:30.990> football<00:45:31.249> coach.

00:45:31.736 --> 00:45:42.788
Um,<00:45:32.314> and<00:45:32.394> he's<00:45:32.715> someone<00:45:33.196> that<00:45:33.356> I<00:45:33.853> sort<00:45:34.014> of<00:45:34.062> stayed<00:45:34.383> in<00:45:34.479> touch<00:45:34.784> with<00:45:35.987> and,<00:45:37.350> you<00:45:37.671> know,<00:45:37.847> I,<00:45:38.008> I<00:45:38.168> then<00:45:38.409> went<00:45:38.569> to<00:45:38.730> Columbia,<00:45:39.435> his<00:45:39.612> alma<00:45:39.868> mater,<00:45:40.253> and<00:45:40.414> where<00:45:40.654> he<00:45:40.799> was,<00:45:41.216> uh,<00:45:42.082> had<00:45:42.242> been<00:45:42.355> a<00:45:42.419> coach.

00:45:43.044 --> 00:45:55.700
Um,<00:45:44.568> and<00:45:44.761> sort<00:45:44.985> of<00:45:45.370> through<00:45:46.092> that,<00:45:46.814> I,<00:45:47.856> um,<00:45:48.514> you<00:45:48.610> know,<00:45:48.915> I,<00:45:49.316> I<00:45:49.460> remember<00:45:50.599> I<00:45:50.760> called<00:45:51.064> him<00:45:51.947> really<00:45:52.364> early<00:45:53.150> in,<00:45:53.952> uh,<00:45:55.235> this<00:45:55.395> whole<00:45:55.556> thing.

00:45:55.877 --> 00:45:56.951
It<00:45:55.973> like<00:45:56.117> could<00:45:56.245> have<00:45:56.294> been<00:45:56.454> 2008.

00:45:57.015 --> 00:45:59.309
It<00:45:57.047> might've<00:45:57.256> been<00:45:57.352> even<00:45:57.497> before<00:45:57.978> we'd<00:45:58.202> like<00:45:58.443> formally<00:45:58.860> started.

00:46:01.838 --> 00:46:10.078
And<00:46:04.347> I<00:46:04.525> remember<00:46:05.982> giving<00:46:06.193> him<00:46:06.306> the<00:46:06.387> pitch<00:46:06.775> and<00:46:06.937> I,<00:46:07.115> at<00:46:07.261> the<00:46:07.358> time,<00:46:07.682> described<00:46:08.232> it<00:46:08.475> as<00:46:08.572> sort<00:46:08.750> of<00:46:08.831> an<00:46:09.204> eBay<00:46:09.365> for<00:46:09.527> services.

00:46:10.906 --> 00:46:15.214
And<00:46:11.227> we're<00:46:11.485> going<00:46:11.726> back<00:46:11.983> and<00:46:12.112> forth<00:46:12.690> and<00:46:12.787> it<00:46:12.819> was<00:46:12.915> probably<00:46:13.141> a<00:46:13.173> 15-minute,<00:46:14.298> 20-minute<00:46:14.780> phone<00:46:15.021> call.

00:46:15.648 --> 00:46:23.005
He<00:46:15.729> was<00:46:15.906> being<00:46:16.227> nice<00:46:16.774> and<00:46:18.606> he<00:46:18.783> ends,<00:46:19.105> he's<00:46:19.250> like,<00:46:19.428> "Hey,<00:46:19.606> look,<00:46:20.723> I<00:46:21.127> wasn't<00:46:21.386> sure<00:46:21.629> what<00:46:21.775> you<00:46:21.872> were<00:46:21.969> going<00:46:22.050> to<00:46:22.180> pitch<00:46:22.358> me<00:46:22.520> on<00:46:22.665> today.

00:46:23.718 --> 00:46:30.175
And<00:46:24.608> I<00:46:24.624> honestly<00:46:25.175> wasn't<00:46:25.498> expecting<00:46:25.984> it<00:46:26.065> to<00:46:26.162> be<00:46:26.243> something<00:46:26.648> that<00:46:26.810> I<00:46:26.955> thought<00:46:27.133> could<00:46:27.360> be<00:46:27.457> exciting."<00:46:29.013> 'But<00:46:29.336> you<00:46:29.433> know,<00:46:29.562> you<00:46:29.659> should<00:46:29.885> hear<00:46:30.046> this.

00:46:30.772 --> 00:46:32.612
I<00:46:30.950> think<00:46:31.837> this<00:46:32.079> could<00:46:32.160> be<00:46:32.321> something.

00:46:32.806 --> 00:46:48.272
Like,<00:46:34.000> if<00:46:34.161> you<00:46:34.258> can<00:46:34.419> get<00:46:34.645> this<00:46:34.807> to<00:46:34.968> work,<00:46:35.630> I<00:46:35.775> believe<00:46:36.098> it<00:46:36.178> could<00:46:36.340> be<00:46:36.437> something.'<00:46:36.985> And<00:46:37.550> you<00:46:37.647> know,<00:46:37.712> having<00:46:37.905> somebody<00:46:38.180> who<00:46:38.292> like<00:46:39.356> knows<00:46:39.581> what<00:46:39.726> they're<00:46:39.823> talking<00:46:40.129> about<00:46:40.467> and<00:46:40.725> sort<00:46:40.886> of<00:46:41.015> has<00:46:41.128> seen<00:46:41.579> greatness<00:46:42.062> and<00:46:42.143> seen<00:46:42.384> success<00:46:43.270> sort<00:46:43.431> of<00:46:43.512> call<00:46:43.770> that<00:46:43.915> out<00:46:44.172> early<00:46:44.479> on<00:46:46.331> was<00:46:46.508> very<00:46:46.815> lucky<00:46:47.219> and<00:46:47.300> obviously<00:46:47.705> very<00:46:47.819> memorable.

00:46:49.277 --> 00:46:54.626
So<00:46:49.504> yeah,<00:46:49.909> I<00:46:49.990> feel<00:46:50.217> lucky<00:46:50.477> about<00:46:51.190> having<00:46:51.449> people<00:46:51.676> like<00:46:51.919> that<00:46:52.243> who<00:46:53.054> gave<00:46:53.167> me<00:46:53.313> a<00:46:53.394> word<00:46:53.654> of<00:46:53.718> encouragement<00:46:54.367> early<00:46:54.594> on.

00:46:54.872 --> 00:46:55.629
That's<00:46:55.259> incredible.

00:46:55.677 --> 00:46:58.028
Marco,<00:46:56.144> thank<00:46:56.321> you<00:46:56.402> so<00:46:56.579> much<00:46:56.949> for<00:46:57.126> taking<00:46:57.448> the<00:46:57.593> time.

00:46:58.092 --> 00:47:01.232
Seriously,<00:46:58.479> congrats<00:46:58.897> on<00:46:58.962> everything<00:46:59.284> you've<00:46:59.461> built<00:46:59.847> and,<00:47:00.347> and<00:47:00.427> good<00:47:00.652> luck<00:47:00.765> in<00:47:00.830> the<00:47:00.910> future.

00:47:01.538 --> 00:47:01.876
Thank<00:47:01.715> you.

00:47:02.021 --> 00:47:02.585
Thanks<00:47:02.134> for<00:47:02.214> having<00:47:02.424> me.