Frec went from zero to $1 billion without a sales force

The advisor invited him to a ballgame.

Mo Al Adham had just sold his first company. He had money for the first time and did what people with money are supposed to do. He hired someone to manage it. Then he watched how the job got done. Moving cash out required an email chain. Getting a low-cost line of credit against his stock, or one of the tax loss harvesting accounts the industry calls SMAs, meant being a client of Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. And there was the ballgame.

"I was like, 'Well, what are you going to sell me there?'" Al Adham told the CEO.com Podcast. "To me, I just wanted an app."

That was the whole idea behind Frec, which he founded in 2021 and which came out of stealth in October 2023 with $26.4 million from Greylock, Social Leverage and others. The product is a direct index. A passive investor who would normally buy an S&P 500 ETF instead buys all 500 stocks in it. Frec's software then sells whichever ones are down, waits out the wash sale window, buys them back, and hands the customer a 1099-B at year-end with realized losses on it. Those losses offset gains elsewhere. The customer gets the return of the index and a smaller tax bill than it would have been.

Family offices have done this for decades through custodians like Northern Trust, with human managers and eight-figure minimums. Al Adham's claim is not that he invented anything. It is that fractional shares and commission-free trading made the strategy cheap enough to run on a $20,000 account, and that software can do the managing. Frec charges 0.1 percent on its flagship indices, close to what an S&P 500 ETF charges, on the theory that customers will pay Frec the expense ratio instead of paying it to the fund.

"There are only two things in your control as a passive investor to optimize your returns," he said. "The first one is lowering your fee. Vanguard does a great job at that. The expense ratio of VOO is like three basis points." The second thing, he said, is what Frec adds. "Not only do we get the low fees that Vanguard gets you, but we also get you the tax advantages. We get you the tax loss harvesting."

He counts 76 companies doing direct indexing. What separates Frec from the other 75 is not the algorithm. It is who the company sells to. Nearly everyone else builds the platform and hands it to financial advisors, who put their clients in it and collect the fee. That is the conventional route, and venture circles have a well-worn argument for it. Selling directly to wealthy individuals is too expensive. Customer acquisition eats the margin. Let the advisor do the selling.

"We figured out it's absolutely wrong," Al Adham said. "Going to the consumer is sort of where the opportunity is in wealth tech, in my opinion, at least."

The customers he found are doctors, lawyers, dentists, engineers, and founders with somewhere between $2 million and $20 million to their names. A lot of them work at Coinbase, Meta, and Nvidia. Frec has tried sponsoring events and buying newsletter placements, but neither moved the needle much. The growth comes from customers talking about the product at dinner and emailing Al Adham introductions to their friends. Frec passed $100 million in customer assets nine months after launch. In May 2025, Al Adham said the number had passed $280 million. In April 2026 he wrote that Frec had crossed $1 billion. By his account, it took a year to reach the first $100 million, a little over a year to reach $550 million, and under four months to go from there to a billion, with more than $80 million arriving in the final week. Frec has not announced any funding beyond the 2023 round. Either it hasn't needed to, or it hasn't said.

The tax math also has a condition the pitch tends to skip. Harvested losses are only worth something to an investor who has gains to offset. Frec's own disclosures for its long/short product say as much: the return simulations assume the investor has enough capital gains each year to use every harvested loss, and anyone without them will see lower after-tax returns. For someone whose wealth is mostly appreciated stock, which describes most of Frec's customer base, that is a real number. For someone without gains, all but a small annual allowance carries forward and waits.

When he sat down with the CEO.com Podcast, Frec had 16 employees. Al Adham wanted it that way. He had run a bigger company before and had come to believe there was a size, somewhere under 20 people, at which a team is more effective than it will ever be again. Past that, the founder starts spending his days on structure.

"I'm selfishly trying to extend the amount of time we stay below 20 people as much as possible," he said. "But that also means the bar is higher when it comes to hiring." In practice, that means every engineer and designer has to be able to act as a product manager, understand what the customer needs, and come up with the answer. "Otherwise, we're going to need an army of PMs here as well, which we don't want to do."

He applied the same skepticism to the rule that a startup needs a co-founder. His reasoning was that a co-founder gets half the company, and half the company is a lot to give one person. He could instead be generous with equity to the first 20 hires and let them be the co-founders collectively. His advice to founders on the podcast was blunt. "Have the courage and confidence to question conventional wisdom and do things your own way that makes sense to you."

Frec is past 20 now. Its team page lists 22 people, and the $1 billion post ends with a call for backend engineers, frontend engineers, and quant researchers. Al Adham's thinking has shifted from keeping the company small to keeping people in it. In a post on LinkedIn, he wrote that a candidate who had worked in a 996 culture told him it was often less productive than an ordinary 50-to-60-hour startup week, and that he would like the average tenure at Frec to be 10 years or more. The model he named was Interactive Brokers, where many of his contacts have been 15-plus years and where the founder has spent more than three decades.

The product has widened too. In May 2025, Frec opened a waitlist for long/short direct indexing, which adds long and short extensions on top of a standard direct index to create more chances to harvest losses. Advisors offered it with $1 million minimums. Frec set the minimum at $100,000. It later added Frec Diversify, which builds long and short overlays around a concentrated stock position and works it down into a broad index without triggering a large gain; this month, it started letting customers fund a direct index with ETF shares they already own instead of selling first.

The large firms are moving into the same territory. Al Adham noted on LinkedIn that Goldman Sachs is rolling out long/short direct indexing through advisors and that Fidelity and Schwab already offer it. He reads this as good for Frec. Every firm that markets the category teaches investors it exists, and some of them will ask why they need a wealth manager to get it. His argument for why the custodians will not simply build what Frec built is that custody is one piece of the stack, and the hard parts are the quant research, the tax-aware account management, the financing and risk controls and the interface that makes any of it understandable. On the Founders in Arms podcast this month, he said Frec is the only place an individual can get a long/short direct index without hiring an advisor. That claim has a shelf life. Fidelity and Schwab have the customers and the balance sheets. What they do not have yet is a reason to sell the product without an advisor attached.

Every CEO.com Podcast episode ends with the same question. Who gave you a chance?

Al Adham went back to his first year at the University of Waterloo. The school runs on co-op terms, four months in class and four months at a job, and by the end of the first year everyone he knew had an internship except him.

"First year college, you don't have experience, so no one's looking at your resume and who's going to interview you," he said. "And I feel like I really lucked out. During the last week of school, I got an interview at ATI, which is now AMD, and walked in. I was very excited to have my first interview. And the hiring manager clearly just took a bet on me. He just went in and said, 'Okay, we're going to try it.' I was clearly very desperate to get the first internship, but I'm very thankful to him for believing in me. And that sort of started me out on this path of working in tech and understanding what I want to be doing in the future. And I don't know that I'd be here today if it wasn't for the hiring manager taking a chance on me as an intern, as a first-year, 18-year-old intern, I didn't really know much about anything."

00:00:09 Introduction and Background
00:00:43 Frustration with Traditional Wealth Management
00:02:49 Direct Indexing Explained
00:04:15 Tax Loss Harvesting
00:06:43 Differentiation From Competitors
00:07:43 Revenue Model
00:10:49 Company Size and Team Structure
00:12:32 Hiring Philosophy
00:13:03 Typical Workday
00:14:38 Customer Acquisition Strategy
00:16:11 Advice for Founders
00:19:06 Economic Outlook for 2025
00:20:46 Thoughts on Bitcoin
00:22:06 Reflecting on Opportunities Given

WEBVTT

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And<00:03:22.530> it's<00:03:22.706> kind<00:03:22.851> of<00:03:22.947> a<00:03:23.027> way<00:03:23.203> of<00:03:23.411> life,<00:03:23.732> you<00:03:23.764> know.

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A<00:03:24.212> lot<00:03:24.324> of<00:03:24.389> folks<00:03:25.975> like<00:03:26.215> to<00:03:26.696> put<00:03:26.776> their<00:03:26.888> money<00:03:27.192> in<00:03:27.337> some<00:03:27.497> kind<00:03:27.737> of<00:03:28.474> a<00:03:28.618> reasonable<00:03:29.115> portfolio<00:03:29.836> and<00:03:29.964> then<00:03:30.076> get<00:03:30.317> back<00:03:30.621> to<00:03:30.781> work<00:03:31.102> on<00:03:31.198> their<00:03:31.342> career.

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They<00:03:31.919> don't<00:03:32.127> want<00:03:32.207> to<00:03:32.255> sort<00:03:32.463> of<00:03:32.495> like<00:03:32.800> actively<00:03:33.264> manage<00:03:34.082> and<00:03:35.044> stock<00:03:35.509> pick.

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And,<00:03:36.392> you<00:03:36.424> know,<00:03:36.953> to<00:03:37.034> them,<00:03:38.173> putting<00:03:38.413> their<00:03:38.959> money<00:03:39.216> to<00:03:39.376> work<00:03:39.697> should<00:03:40.162> kind<00:03:40.258> of<00:03:40.884> be<00:03:40.964> on<00:03:41.205> autopilot,<00:03:41.943> right?

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And<00:03:42.761> the<00:03:42.889> way<00:03:43.002> it's<00:03:43.226> been<00:03:43.371> traditionally<00:03:43.852> done<00:03:44.029> is<00:03:44.189> through<00:03:44.414> these<00:03:44.606> vehicles<00:03:45.055> called<00:03:45.472> ETFs,<00:03:46.018> right?

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ETFs,<00:03:46.820> obviously,<00:03:47.141> you<00:03:47.237> buy<00:03:47.398> an<00:03:47.654> index<00:03:48.023> fund,<00:03:49.066> uh,<00:03:49.387> and<00:03:49.483> the<00:03:49.644> index<00:03:49.949> fund<00:03:50.109> underneath<00:03:50.526> it<00:03:50.703> sort<00:03:50.911> of<00:03:50.991> like<00:03:51.248> exposes<00:03:51.810> you<00:03:51.970> to<00:03:52.050> a<00:03:52.147> certain<00:03:52.483> segment<00:03:52.852> of<00:03:52.917> the<00:03:52.981> market,<00:03:53.334> like<00:03:53.494> the<00:03:53.542> S&P<00:03:53.959> 500,<00:03:54.521> for<00:03:54.585> example.

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A<00:03:55.660> direct<00:03:55.965> index<00:03:56.238> is<00:03:56.302> an<00:03:56.607> evolution<00:03:57.184> of<00:03:57.329> that,<00:03:57.810> right?

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So<00:03:58.131> instead<00:03:58.468> of<00:03:58.628> buying<00:03:58.949> the<00:03:59.109> ETF,<00:04:00.569> it<00:04:00.953> actually<00:04:01.354> buys<00:04:01.818> underlying<00:04:02.459> stocks<00:04:03.437> underneath<00:04:04.879> that<00:04:05.152> make<00:04:05.504> up<00:04:06.401> that<00:04:06.642> index,<00:04:07.123> right?

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So<00:04:07.507> instead<00:04:07.699> of<00:04:07.844> buying<00:04:08.084> the<00:04:08.244> S&P<00:04:08.565> 500<00:04:09.542> ETF,<00:04:09.847> SPY<00:04:10.247> or<00:04:10.327> VOO,<00:04:10.872> you're<00:04:11.049> actually<00:04:11.369> buying<00:04:11.914> all<00:04:12.074> 500<00:04:12.555> stocks<00:04:12.971> in<00:04:13.052> the<00:04:13.116> index.

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And<00:04:14.237> what<00:04:14.398> we<00:04:14.478> do<00:04:14.590> is<00:04:14.734> we<00:04:14.878> tax<00:04:15.151> loss<00:04:15.375> harvest<00:04:16.657> those<00:04:17.074> stocks<00:04:17.458> in<00:04:17.538> the<00:04:17.619> background,<00:04:18.580> right?

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Because<00:04:19.365> what<00:04:20.423> we<00:04:20.743> believe<00:04:21.080> is<00:04:21.288> at<00:04:21.368> the<00:04:21.528> core<00:04:21.689> of<00:04:21.785> it,<00:04:22.426> there's<00:04:22.730> only<00:04:22.891> sort<00:04:23.003> of<00:04:23.131> like<00:04:23.387> two<00:04:23.548> things<00:04:23.948> in<00:04:24.092> your<00:04:24.189> control<00:04:24.749> as<00:04:24.894> a<00:04:24.990> passive<00:04:25.326> investor.

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To<00:04:26.336> optimize<00:04:26.754> your<00:04:26.898> returns.

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The<00:04:27.797> first<00:04:28.102> one<00:04:28.199> is<00:04:28.440> lowering<00:04:28.841> your<00:04:29.002> fees.

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You<00:04:29.885> don't<00:04:30.013> want<00:04:30.093> to<00:04:30.125> pay<00:04:30.382> too<00:04:30.527> much<00:04:31.009> to<00:04:32.357> get<00:04:32.470> exposure<00:04:33.000> to<00:04:33.080> a<00:04:33.176> passive<00:04:33.578> investment,<00:04:34.124> right?

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You<00:04:34.380> want<00:04:34.509> to<00:04:34.621> pay<00:04:34.782> as<00:04:35.248> least<00:04:35.504> as<00:04:35.665> possible.

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And<00:04:36.612> frankly,<00:04:36.950> Vanguard<00:04:37.367> does<00:04:37.512> a<00:04:37.576> great<00:04:37.752> job<00:04:38.009> at<00:04:38.074> that.

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Like<00:04:38.539> the<00:04:38.619> expense<00:04:39.021> ratio<00:04:39.342> of<00:04:39.438> VOO<00:04:39.840> is<00:04:40.065> like<00:04:40.643> 0.3<00:04:41.526> basis<00:04:41.927> points,<00:04:42.200> 0.03,<00:04:43.533> right?

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That's<00:04:45.122> kind<00:04:45.219> of<00:04:45.443> one<00:04:45.604> element.

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But<00:04:46.166> the<00:04:46.246> second<00:04:46.648> element<00:04:46.921> is<00:04:46.969> sort<00:04:47.065> of<00:04:47.145> like<00:04:47.306> what<00:04:47.467> we<00:04:47.627> bring<00:04:47.852> to<00:04:47.948> the<00:04:48.029> table<00:04:48.350> that's<00:04:48.510> unique<00:04:48.831> to<00:04:48.976> us<00:04:49.088> is<00:04:49.233> we<00:04:49.731> not<00:04:50.020> only<00:04:50.116> do<00:04:50.212> we<00:04:50.341> get<00:04:50.501> you<00:04:50.598> the<00:04:50.742> low<00:04:50.855> fees,<00:04:52.507> that<00:04:52.764> Vanguard<00:04:53.164> gets<00:04:53.389> you,<00:04:53.485> but<00:04:53.790> also<00:04:54.767> we<00:04:54.848> get<00:04:55.072> you<00:04:55.168> the<00:04:55.328> tax<00:04:55.649> advantages,<00:04:56.675> right?

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We<00:04:56.996> get<00:04:57.236> you<00:04:57.268> the<00:04:57.412> tax<00:04:57.669> loss<00:04:57.893> harvesting.

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So<00:04:59.160> we<00:04:59.400> do<00:04:59.673> these<00:04:59.897> two<00:05:00.138> things<00:05:00.458> together<00:05:01.100> in<00:05:01.180> one<00:05:01.340> product.

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So<00:05:02.606> you<00:05:02.703> get<00:05:03.023> the<00:05:03.167> low<00:05:03.264> fees<00:05:04.290> and<00:05:04.931> we're<00:05:05.171> able<00:05:05.348> to<00:05:05.492> tax<00:05:05.700> loss<00:05:05.973> harvest<00:05:06.534> for<00:05:06.694> you.

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So<00:05:07.031> what<00:05:07.127> that<00:05:07.287> means<00:05:07.528> is<00:05:07.656> when<00:05:07.816> we<00:05:07.993> buy<00:05:08.153> the<00:05:08.233> 500<00:05:08.650> stocks<00:05:09.516> in<00:05:09.596> an<00:05:09.756> index<00:05:10.077> like<00:05:10.237> the<00:05:10.285> S&P<00:05:10.654> 500,<00:05:11.199> we're<00:05:11.503> able<00:05:11.760> to<00:05:12.417> sell<00:05:12.722> the<00:05:12.882> losers<00:05:13.363> and<00:05:13.523> buy<00:05:13.684> them<00:05:13.844> again<00:05:14.950> after<00:05:15.607> a<00:05:15.671> wash<00:05:15.784> sale<00:05:16.072> window<00:05:16.569> has<00:05:17.114> occurred.

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That<00:05:18.430> way<00:05:18.994> you<00:05:19.155> actually<00:05:19.430> sort<00:05:19.575> of<00:05:19.655> like<00:05:20.123> at<00:05:20.203> the<00:05:20.284> end<00:05:20.381> of<00:05:20.445> the<00:05:20.542> year,<00:05:21.251> you're<00:05:21.348> getting<00:05:22.219> a<00:05:22.315> tax<00:05:22.573> document<00:05:23.025> from<00:05:23.202> us<00:05:23.444> called<00:05:23.605> the<00:05:23.686> 1099-B<00:05:24.492> that<00:05:24.653> has<00:05:24.960> tax<00:05:25.298> losses<00:05:25.685> on<00:05:25.782> it<00:05:26.169> that<00:05:26.249> you<00:05:26.346> can<00:05:26.572> offset<00:05:26.975> your<00:05:27.056> income<00:05:27.314> with.

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That<00:05:29.313> is<00:05:29.491> so<00:05:30.039> fascinating.

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How<00:05:32.800> has<00:05:32.912> it<00:05:32.993> been<00:05:33.137> going?

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Like<00:05:33.555> at<00:05:33.700> what<00:05:33.860> point,<00:05:34.744> like<00:05:35.387> how,<00:05:35.628> how,<00:05:36.029> how<00:05:36.190> come<00:05:36.367> no<00:05:36.511> one<00:05:37.106> had<00:05:37.250> ever<00:05:37.491> done<00:05:37.652> this<00:05:37.813> before?

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Maybe<00:05:38.600> is<00:05:38.697> my<00:05:38.857> first<00:05:39.082> question.

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So,<00:05:39.998> so<00:05:40.785> this<00:05:40.930> has<00:05:41.107> been,<00:05:41.492> by<00:05:41.589> the<00:05:41.685> way,<00:05:41.894> going<00:05:42.151> on<00:05:42.280> for<00:05:42.400> decades.

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If<00:05:43.430> you're<00:05:43.542> a<00:05:43.558> family<00:05:44.087> office,<00:05:44.663> if<00:05:44.824> you're<00:05:44.936> sort<00:05:45.240> of<00:05:45.304> like<00:05:45.465> an<00:05:45.545> institution<00:05:46.827> and<00:05:46.907> you<00:05:47.003> want<00:05:47.147> exposure<00:05:47.612> to<00:05:47.692> public<00:05:48.093> markets,<00:05:48.974> you're<00:05:49.150> buying<00:05:49.391> a<00:05:49.471> direct<00:05:49.727> index.

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You're<00:05:50.288> not<00:05:50.512> buying<00:05:51.073> like<00:05:51.249> an<00:05:51.394> ETF<00:05:51.874> and<00:05:51.954> you're<00:05:52.195> buying<00:05:52.451> a<00:05:52.515> direct<00:05:52.772> index<00:05:53.140> through<00:05:54.037> these<00:05:54.358> big<00:05:54.598> custodians<00:05:55.880> like<00:05:56.121> Northern<00:05:56.521> Trust,<00:05:57.146> for<00:05:57.226> example.

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Right.

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And<00:05:59.309> you're<00:05:59.406> set<00:05:59.630> up,<00:05:59.966> you<00:06:00.046> have<00:06:00.287> like<00:06:00.527> people<00:06:00.832> managing<00:06:01.232> that<00:06:01.376> account<00:06:01.729> and<00:06:01.809> so<00:06:02.033> on.

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And<00:06:02.771> so<00:06:02.867> what<00:06:02.995> happened<00:06:03.267> since<00:06:03.556> then<00:06:03.668> is<00:06:03.812> technology<00:06:04.293> has<00:06:04.453> evolved.

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Right.

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So<00:06:05.334> now<00:06:05.719> we<00:06:05.799> don't<00:06:05.975> need<00:06:06.296> sort<00:06:07.273> of<00:06:07.401> like<00:06:08.058> a<00:06:08.074> million<00:06:08.379> dollar<00:06:08.683> minimum<00:06:09.180> to<00:06:09.324> buy<00:06:09.501> this<00:06:09.661> thing.

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You<00:06:10.350> can<00:06:10.510> buy<00:06:10.730> it<00:06:10.910> with<00:06:11.090> $10,000,<00:06:11.370> $20,000.

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You<00:06:12.850> also<00:06:13.150> don't<00:06:13.390> need<00:06:13.810> humans<00:06:15.570> to<00:06:15.910> manage<00:06:16.210> it.

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Software<00:06:16.690> can<00:06:16.950> do<00:06:17.050> it<00:06:17.190> for<00:06:17.350> you.

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Software<00:06:17.790> can<00:06:18.050> execute<00:06:18.430> the<00:06:18.710> trades,<00:06:18.930> right?

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And<00:06:19.810> so<00:06:20.030> all<00:06:20.130> we've<00:06:20.510> done<00:06:20.650> is<00:06:20.850> we've<00:06:21.050> taken<00:06:21.610> this<00:06:22.070> strategy<00:06:22.570> that<00:06:22.770> has<00:06:22.950> existed,<00:06:23.750> that's<00:06:23.870> been<00:06:24.150> sort<00:06:24.151> of<00:06:24.610> like<00:06:24.710> used<00:06:25.070> extensively<00:06:25.730> by<00:06:26.110> institutions<00:06:26.770> and<00:06:26.970> large<00:06:27.250> family<00:06:27.510> offices,<00:06:28.550> and<00:06:28.670> we<00:06:28.790> made<00:06:28.950> it<00:06:29.110> available<00:06:29.470> to<00:06:29.770> everyone<00:06:30.050> else.

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So<00:06:30.670> anyone<00:06:30.750> now<00:06:31.030> can<00:06:31.210> buy<00:06:31.430> a<00:06:31.650> direct<00:06:31.651> index.

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Anyone<00:06:32.410> can<00:06:32.770> take<00:06:32.930> advantage<00:06:33.290> of<00:06:33.470> the<00:06:33.570> tax<00:06:33.790> savings<00:06:34.210> on<00:06:34.830> a<00:06:34.990> $20,000<00:06:35.410> account,<00:06:35.770> on<00:06:35.890> a<00:06:35.950> $100,000<00:06:36.230> account,<00:06:36.570> on<00:06:36.710> a<00:06:36.790> million<00:06:37.030> or<00:06:37.170> $2<00:06:37.370> million<00:06:37.490> account.

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You<00:06:38.170> don't<00:06:38.350> need,<00:06:38.750> you<00:06:38.950> know,<00:06:39.632> $50<00:06:39.889> million<00:06:40.339> or<00:06:40.500> $300<00:06:40.821> million<00:06:41.479> to<00:06:41.623> execute<00:06:42.282> the<00:06:42.426> strategy.

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And<00:06:43.711> I<00:06:43.727> have<00:06:43.887> to<00:06:43.968> say<00:06:44.273> that<00:06:44.449> like,<00:06:45.156> there<00:06:45.397> are<00:06:45.750> 76<00:06:46.537> companies<00:06:47.002> out<00:06:47.163> there<00:06:47.340> the<00:06:47.420> last<00:06:47.613> time<00:06:47.757> I<00:06:47.821> checked<00:06:48.207> that<00:06:48.367> do<00:06:48.608> direct<00:06:48.849> indexing.

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And<00:06:50.133> so<00:06:50.374> it's<00:06:50.712> a<00:06:50.776> crowded<00:06:51.129> space,<00:06:51.579> but<00:06:51.835> everyone<00:06:52.237> does<00:06:52.414> it<00:06:52.542> through<00:06:52.703> advisors.

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So<00:06:53.361> people<00:06:53.682> build<00:06:54.083> these<00:06:54.485> platforms<00:06:55.448> and<00:06:55.529> they<00:06:55.625> sell<00:06:55.914> it<00:06:56.010> to<00:06:56.155> the<00:06:56.235> advisor<00:06:56.893> and<00:06:56.974> the<00:06:57.038> advisor<00:06:57.536> then<00:06:57.696> sells<00:06:57.953> it<00:06:58.098> to<00:06:58.194> the<00:06:58.579> end<00:06:58.740> customer.

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The<00:06:59.944> way<00:07:00.185> we<00:07:00.345> are<00:07:00.490> different<00:07:00.763> is<00:07:00.972> we've<00:07:01.389> built<00:07:01.630> this<00:07:02.015> and<00:07:02.112> we're<00:07:02.208> selling<00:07:02.593> it<00:07:02.754> directly<00:07:03.396> to<00:07:03.637> the<00:07:03.782> customer.

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And<00:07:05.254> it's,<00:07:05.849> you<00:07:05.932> know,<00:07:06.064> it's<00:07:06.147> sort<00:07:06.312> of<00:07:06.346> like<00:07:06.511> a<00:07:06.577> different<00:07:06.908> approach<00:07:07.404> because,<00:07:09.121> you<00:07:09.283> know,<00:07:09.347> sort<00:07:09.492> of<00:07:09.525> like,<00:07:09.735> I<00:07:09.815> guess<00:07:10.057> the,<00:07:12.494> the<00:07:12.978> common<00:07:13.381> wisdom,<00:07:14.430> at<00:07:14.576> least<00:07:14.753> in<00:07:14.834> the<00:07:14.914> VC<00:07:15.382> community<00:07:16.108> and<00:07:16.512> within<00:07:17.335> amongst<00:07:17.722> founders<00:07:18.386> and<00:07:18.614> other<00:07:18.777> really<00:07:19.054> smart<00:07:19.364> people<00:07:19.624> is<00:07:19.754> that<00:07:20.243> you<00:07:20.324> never<00:07:20.650> want<00:07:20.748> to<00:07:20.829> go<00:07:20.992> direct<00:07:21.725> with<00:07:22.051> wealth.

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It's<00:07:23.012> like<00:07:23.191> very<00:07:23.451> difficult.

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Your<00:07:24.630> cost<00:07:24.760> of<00:07:24.889> acquisition<00:07:25.390> is<00:07:25.552> very<00:07:25.778> high.

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You<00:07:27.006> know,<00:07:27.572> it's<00:07:27.718> just<00:07:27.895> not<00:07:28.057> worth<00:07:28.235> it.

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You<00:07:28.445> should<00:07:28.687> definitely<00:07:29.188> build<00:07:29.366> something,<00:07:29.819> give<00:07:29.932> it<00:07:30.061> to<00:07:30.158> the<00:07:30.401> advisor<00:07:30.966> and<00:07:31.112> let<00:07:31.209> the<00:07:31.273> advisor<00:07:31.774> sell<00:07:32.017> it<00:07:32.179> for<00:07:32.340> you.

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And<00:07:33.030> that's<00:07:33.273> conventional<00:07:33.839> wisdom<00:07:34.583> that<00:07:34.745> we,<00:07:35.230> we<00:07:35.780> figured<00:07:36.104> out<00:07:36.282> is<00:07:36.670> absolutely<00:07:37.010> wrong.

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Like,<00:07:37.721> you<00:07:37.818> know,<00:07:38.546> actually<00:07:38.789> going<00:07:38.983> to<00:07:39.096> the<00:07:39.177> consumer<00:07:39.663> is<00:07:39.760> sort<00:07:39.905> of<00:07:39.938> like<00:07:40.148> where<00:07:40.245> the<00:07:40.310> opportunity<00:07:40.892> is<00:07:41.038> in<00:07:41.135> wealth<00:07:41.377> tech,<00:07:41.620> in<00:07:41.701> my<00:07:41.798> opinion,<00:07:42.089> at<00:07:42.122> least.

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Yeah.

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And<00:07:44.435> like<00:07:44.839> Robinhood<00:07:45.340> kind<00:07:45.502> of<00:07:45.535> showed<00:07:45.826> that<00:07:46.133> right<00:07:46.570> early<00:07:46.877> on,<00:07:47.282> just<00:07:47.508> like,<00:07:48.656> you<00:07:48.737> know,<00:07:48.964> the<00:07:49.077> simplicity<00:07:50.048> of<00:07:50.112> being<00:07:50.355> able<00:07:50.517> to<00:07:50.662> invest<00:07:51.002> in<00:07:51.082> a<00:07:51.147> stock.

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And<00:07:52.147> I<00:07:52.276> mean,<00:07:52.372> there's,<00:07:52.598> there's<00:07:52.727> some<00:07:52.856> challenges<00:07:53.324> with<00:07:53.421> that<00:07:53.533> because<00:07:53.743> I<00:07:53.759> think<00:07:53.969> a<00:07:53.985> lot<00:07:54.130> of<00:07:54.162> people<00:07:54.307> like<00:07:54.694> tried<00:07:54.872> to<00:07:54.936> like<00:07:55.114> day<00:07:55.356> trade<00:07:55.743> on<00:07:56.065> that<00:07:56.404> app<00:07:56.565> or<00:07:56.710> things<00:07:56.952> like<00:07:57.129> that,<00:07:57.355> which<00:07:57.532> is<00:07:58.097> a<00:07:58.177> little<00:07:58.403> risky.

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And,<00:07:59.616> uh,<00:08:00.353> you<00:08:00.434> know,<00:08:00.594> what<00:08:00.754> you're<00:08:00.994> doing<00:08:01.555> is<00:08:01.716> quite—<00:08:01.956> what<00:08:02.196> is<00:08:02.356> your<00:08:02.597> revenue<00:08:02.981> model?

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So<00:08:04.359> how<00:08:04.456> do<00:08:04.504> you<00:08:04.600> make<00:08:04.760> money?

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Sure.

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So,<00:08:06.266> uh,<00:08:06.427> we<00:08:06.523> are<00:08:06.683> just<00:08:06.843> like<00:08:07.068> Robinhood.

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We<00:08:07.548> are<00:08:07.628> a<00:08:07.644> brokerage,<00:08:08.365> but<00:08:08.446> we're<00:08:08.606> also<00:08:08.830> an<00:08:08.926> advisor.

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And<00:08:10.272> so<00:08:10.609> in<00:08:10.705> our<00:08:10.913> managed<00:08:11.410> products,<00:08:11.955> meaning<00:08:12.211> in<00:08:12.275> our<00:08:12.452> direct<00:08:12.692> indices,<00:08:13.157> like<00:08:13.333> you<00:08:13.493> have<00:08:13.733> a<00:08:13.878> collection,<00:08:14.262> you<00:08:14.294> can<00:08:14.519> choose<00:08:14.775> from<00:08:14.919> one<00:08:15.031> of<00:08:15.160> 14<00:08:15.512> indices,<00:08:16.121> right?

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You<00:08:16.281> can<00:08:16.474> buy<00:08:16.682> the<00:08:16.778> Russell<00:08:17.018> 3000,<00:08:18.364> you<00:08:18.461> can<00:08:18.701> buy<00:08:18.861> the<00:08:18.941> S&P<00:08:19.326> 500,<00:08:20.287> you<00:08:20.624> can<00:08:20.768> buy<00:08:20.944> the<00:08:21.008> information<00:08:21.505> technology<00:08:21.986> sector,<00:08:22.931> right?

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And<00:08:23.268> so<00:08:23.428> for<00:08:23.588> these<00:08:23.829> managed<00:08:24.213> products,<00:08:24.534> we<00:08:24.614> charge<00:08:24.870> an<00:08:25.335> AUM<00:08:25.431> fee.

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Fee<00:08:27.100> of,<00:08:27.501> it's<00:08:28.079> basically<00:08:28.481> the<00:08:28.577> same,<00:08:29.364> very<00:08:29.589> close<00:08:29.830> to<00:08:29.862> the<00:08:30.006> price<00:08:30.183> of<00:08:30.472> the<00:08:30.568> ETF.

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If<00:08:31.355> the<00:08:31.435> S&P,<00:08:31.853> if<00:08:31.997> SPY<00:08:32.495> is<00:08:32.591> 0.0945%<00:08:34.679> in<00:08:35.770> expenses<00:08:36.493> to<00:08:36.573> you,<00:08:37.167> ours<00:08:37.328> is<00:08:37.376> 0.1%,<00:08:38.436> right?

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It's<00:08:38.757> like<00:08:38.917> basically<00:08:39.319> the<00:08:39.415> same.

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And<00:08:40.346> so<00:08:40.683> the<00:08:41.149> idea<00:08:41.390> is<00:08:41.486> like,<00:08:41.647> hey,<00:08:41.727> instead<00:08:42.032> of<00:08:42.273> paying<00:08:42.546> SPY<00:08:43.012> the<00:08:43.156> expense<00:08:43.558> ratio,<00:08:43.975> pay<00:08:44.376> us<00:08:44.601> the<00:08:44.681> expense<00:08:45.083> ratio.

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And<00:08:46.143> with<00:08:46.544> us,<00:08:47.106> you're<00:08:47.507> going<00:08:47.684> to<00:08:47.748> get<00:08:48.712> the<00:08:48.792> tax<00:08:49.049> loss<00:08:49.273> harvesting<00:08:49.900> in<00:08:49.996> addition<00:08:50.478> to<00:08:50.574> the<00:08:50.654> SPY<00:08:51.024> performance.

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And<00:08:52.564> so<00:08:52.949> that's<00:08:53.205> kind<00:08:53.350> of<00:08:53.382> that<00:08:53.767> business<00:08:54.007> model<00:08:54.248> is<00:08:55.290> every<00:08:55.515> index<00:08:55.707> is<00:08:55.916> priced<00:08:56.092> a<00:08:56.108> little<00:08:56.397> differently.

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Some<00:08:57.311> of<00:08:57.375> our<00:08:57.519> international<00:08:58.097> indices<00:08:58.498> are<00:08:58.578> more<00:08:58.738> expensive<00:08:59.315> and,<00:09:00.005> and,<00:09:00.518> you<00:09:00.823> know,<00:09:01.144> the<00:09:01.224> more<00:09:01.448> classic<00:09:02.731> US<00:09:03.052> large<00:09:03.309> caps<00:09:03.694> are<00:09:04.351> priced<00:09:04.656> more<00:09:04.752> competitively.

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And<00:09:06.115> so<00:09:06.275> that's<00:09:06.500> one<00:09:06.660> revenue<00:09:06.933> stream<00:09:07.254> is<00:09:07.382> the<00:09:07.462> management<00:09:08.184> fees<00:09:08.521> that<00:09:08.825> are<00:09:08.922> associated<00:09:09.884> with<00:09:10.205> money<00:09:10.686> in<00:09:10.782> a<00:09:10.846> direct<00:09:11.103> index.

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But<00:09:11.888> then<00:09:12.129> as<00:09:12.225> a<00:09:12.289> brokerage,<00:09:12.770> we<00:09:12.915> also<00:09:13.187> make<00:09:13.556> money<00:09:13.813> from<00:09:14.695> BFA,<00:09:15.176> from<00:09:15.401> securities<00:09:16.122> lending,<00:09:17.004> from<00:09:17.662> cash<00:09:17.903> balances<00:09:18.465> on<00:09:18.545> the<00:09:18.625> platform,<00:09:19.348> from<00:09:19.589> margin<00:09:20.472> debit<00:09:20.874> on<00:09:20.970> the<00:09:21.115> platform.

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So<00:09:22.159> those<00:09:22.399> are<00:09:22.560> additional<00:09:23.829> revenue<00:09:24.102> sources.

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And<00:09:25.676> then<00:09:25.756> maybe<00:09:26.013> I'd<00:09:26.173> say<00:09:26.414> just<00:09:26.639> the<00:09:26.719> last<00:09:27.041> one<00:09:27.201> is<00:09:27.538> sort<00:09:27.715> of<00:09:27.747> an<00:09:27.844> emerging<00:09:28.968> revenue<00:09:29.241> source<00:09:29.803> for<00:09:30.028> us<00:09:30.814> is<00:09:31.055> all<00:09:31.152> these<00:09:31.457> additional<00:09:31.955> services<00:09:32.581> that<00:09:32.902> customers<00:09:33.320> are<00:09:33.641> beginning<00:09:34.026> to<00:09:34.187> ask<00:09:34.380> us<00:09:34.669> for.

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Like,<00:09:34.990> hey,<00:09:35.150> how<00:09:35.247> do<00:09:35.327> I<00:09:35.552> donate<00:09:35.889> to<00:09:35.953> a<00:09:36.050> donor<00:09:36.226> advised<00:09:36.692> fund?

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Like,<00:09:37.158> how<00:09:37.190> do<00:09:37.399> I,<00:09:38.443> can<00:09:38.523> I<00:09:38.619> get<00:09:38.940> like<00:09:39.117> an<00:09:39.181> estate<00:09:39.567> plan?

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Or<00:09:40.691> how<00:09:40.787> do<00:09:40.932> I,<00:09:41.430> do<00:09:41.494> you<00:09:41.526> guys<00:09:41.815> offer<00:09:41.944> mortgages?

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Because<00:09:42.634> I<00:09:42.698> want<00:09:42.827> to<00:09:42.875> buy<00:09:43.276> a<00:09:43.341> house<00:09:43.678> and<00:09:44.063> please,<00:09:44.256> I<00:09:44.272> don't<00:09:44.449> want<00:09:44.545> to<00:09:44.642> deal<00:09:44.802> with<00:09:44.898> a<00:09:44.963> traditional<00:09:45.525> mortgage<00:09:45.910> lender.

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Like,<00:09:46.472> can<00:09:46.553> you<00:09:46.649> guys<00:09:46.890> do<00:09:47.034> that?

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Oh,<00:09:49.214> the<00:09:49.439> opportunities<00:09:49.999> you<00:09:50.079> have<00:09:50.272> are<00:09:50.336> kind<00:09:50.576> of<00:09:50.720> endless<00:09:51.121> there,<00:09:51.522> particularly<00:09:52.002> if<00:09:52.163> you<00:09:52.243> could<00:09:52.355> set<00:09:52.515> up<00:09:52.643> the<00:09:52.739> DAFs<00:09:53.284> and<00:09:53.621> market<00:09:53.941> in<00:09:54.021> with<00:09:54.181> their<00:09:54.566> already<00:09:55.143> account<00:09:55.527> seems<00:09:55.848> really<00:09:56.088> interesting.

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Do<00:09:57.226> you<00:09:57.386> think<00:09:57.546> you'd<00:09:57.707> go<00:09:57.947> into<00:09:58.107> mortgages?

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I<00:09:58.604> mean,<00:09:58.812> that's<00:09:59.229> kind<00:09:59.389> of<00:09:59.485> interesting<00:09:59.870> as<00:09:59.950> well.

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Well,<00:10:00.911> I<00:10:00.991> think<00:10:01.248> in<00:10:01.392> general,<00:10:02.097> our<00:10:03.219> customers<00:10:03.699> tend<00:10:03.876> to<00:10:04.100> be<00:10:05.077> sort<00:10:05.173> of<00:10:05.222> like<00:10:06.103> the<00:10:06.199> types<00:10:06.600> that<00:10:07.465> really<00:10:07.865> want<00:10:08.747> the<00:10:08.907> best<00:10:09.420> of<00:10:09.644> breed<00:10:09.900> of<00:10:10.045> everything.

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You<00:10:11.118> know,<00:10:11.246> when<00:10:11.391> they<00:10:11.551> want<00:10:11.631> to<00:10:11.807> get<00:10:11.967> a<00:10:12.047> DAF,<00:10:12.528> they're<00:10:12.624> going<00:10:12.720> to<00:10:12.833> shop<00:10:13.105> around<00:10:13.345> and<00:10:13.425> get<00:10:13.570> the<00:10:13.730> best<00:10:13.970> DAF<00:10:14.275> out<00:10:14.435> there.

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When<00:10:15.157> they<00:10:15.237> want<00:10:15.317> to<00:10:15.349> get<00:10:15.494> an<00:10:15.574> estate<00:10:15.960> plan,<00:10:16.152> they're<00:10:16.297> also<00:10:16.473> going<00:10:16.554> to<00:10:16.618> shop<00:10:16.794> around<00:10:16.923> and<00:10:17.019> get<00:10:17.164> the<00:10:17.260> best<00:10:17.437> estate<00:10:17.726> plan.

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And<00:10:18.047> they<00:10:18.079> don't<00:10:18.304> mind<00:10:18.625> like<00:10:18.850> using<00:10:19.813> 3<00:10:19.909> or<00:10:19.990> 4<00:10:20.134> or<00:10:20.295> 5<00:10:20.552> different<00:10:20.969> service<00:10:21.338> providers.

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So<00:10:22.061> I<00:10:22.077> don't<00:10:22.238> think<00:10:22.462> we're<00:10:22.559> going<00:10:22.655> to<00:10:22.719> be<00:10:22.944> able<00:10:23.121> to<00:10:24.084> do<00:10:24.309> those<00:10:24.871> products<00:10:25.770> at<00:10:25.850> the<00:10:25.995> quality<00:10:26.428> that<00:10:26.717> our<00:10:26.814> customers<00:10:27.231> expect<00:10:27.777> of<00:10:27.841> us.

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And<00:10:28.741> so<00:10:29.062> I<00:10:29.142> think<00:10:29.303> we're<00:10:29.383> going<00:10:29.495> to<00:10:29.624> do<00:10:29.848> direct<00:10:30.121> indexing<00:10:30.571> at<00:10:30.667> an<00:10:30.764> extremely<00:10:31.358> high<00:10:31.454> quality.

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We're<00:10:31.968> going<00:10:32.048> to<00:10:32.129> be<00:10:32.337> the<00:10:32.514> best,<00:10:33.638> hopefully,<00:10:34.039> you<00:10:34.216> know,<00:10:35.083> fingers<00:10:35.404> crossed,<00:10:35.805> the<00:10:35.966> best<00:10:36.689> direct<00:10:36.913> indexing<00:10:37.251> platform<00:10:37.797> out<00:10:37.973> there.

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And<00:10:40.526> And,<00:10:40.862> you<00:10:40.942> know,<00:10:41.087> we're<00:10:41.167> going<00:10:41.247> to<00:10:41.343> partner.

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I<00:10:41.904> think<00:10:42.048> we're<00:10:42.160> going<00:10:42.256> to<00:10:42.289> look<00:10:42.449> for<00:10:42.785> and<00:10:42.881> seek<00:10:43.250> out<00:10:43.587> partners<00:10:43.987> who<00:10:44.147> can<00:10:44.388> provide<00:10:44.644> our<00:10:44.772> customers<00:10:45.189> with<00:10:45.333> the<00:10:45.429> best,<00:10:46.070> you<00:10:46.150> know,<00:10:46.791> mortgage,<00:10:47.176> with<00:10:47.256> the<00:10:47.352> best<00:10:47.513> estate<00:10:47.833> plan,<00:10:48.154> with<00:10:48.298> the<00:10:48.394> best<00:10:49.596> DAF,<00:10:50.621> and<00:10:50.958> hopefully<00:10:51.503> in<00:10:51.599> an<00:10:51.759> integrated<00:10:52.160> experience<00:10:52.641> so<00:10:52.785> it<00:10:52.881> doesn't<00:10:53.266> feel<00:10:53.378> disjointed.

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Customers<00:10:54.868> on<00:10:55.028> Fract<00:10:55.189> can<00:10:55.445> go<00:10:55.509> and<00:10:55.685> donate<00:10:56.006> to<00:10:56.807> their<00:10:56.967> DAF<00:10:57.688> through<00:10:57.785> our<00:10:57.849> partner.

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Did<00:10:59.291> you<00:10:59.371> raise<00:10:59.691> venture<00:10:59.932> capital<00:11:00.797> to<00:11:01.070> kind<00:11:01.438> of<00:11:01.534> get<00:11:01.679> this<00:11:01.775> started?

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We<00:11:02.736> did.

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We<00:11:03.217> raised<00:11:03.618> $26<00:11:04.178> million<00:11:04.980> from<00:11:05.525> Greylock.

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And<00:11:06.490> other<00:11:06.733> investors<00:11:07.236> in<00:11:07.317> the<00:11:07.398> Valley.

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And<00:11:08.939> that<00:11:09.101> was<00:11:09.345> back<00:11:09.604> in<00:11:10.480> between<00:11:11.048> '21<00:11:11.680> and<00:11:11.729> '23.

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Yeah,<00:11:15.809> that's<00:11:16.283> an<00:11:16.446> incredible<00:11:17.051> amount.

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That's<00:11:18.833> a<00:11:18.914> good<00:11:19.143> start.

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How<00:11:19.568> big<00:11:19.732> is<00:11:19.830> the<00:11:19.960> company<00:11:20.238> now?

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We<00:11:22.129> are<00:11:22.789> 16<00:11:23.192> people.

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Oh,<00:11:24.980> so<00:11:25.205> you're<00:11:25.366> keeping<00:11:25.753> it<00:11:25.930> lean<00:11:26.252> too,<00:11:26.960> which<00:11:27.057> is<00:11:27.105> incredible.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah,<00:11:28.732> I<00:11:28.748> think,<00:11:29.231> you<00:11:29.311> know,<00:11:29.956> and<00:11:30.181> maybe<00:11:30.423> this<00:11:30.600> is<00:11:31.728> a<00:11:31.792> bit<00:11:32.016> different<00:11:32.513> than<00:11:32.674> how<00:11:32.914> other<00:11:33.235> companies<00:11:34.277> like<00:11:34.518> to<00:11:34.678> run.

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But,<00:11:35.400> you<00:11:35.496> know,<00:11:35.641> as<00:11:35.737> a<00:11:35.785> second-time<00:11:36.346> founder,<00:11:37.469> I've,<00:11:37.789> um,<00:11:38.431> and<00:11:38.591> also<00:11:38.768> as<00:11:38.912> someone<00:11:39.153> who's<00:11:39.634> worked<00:11:39.890> in<00:11:39.970> the<00:11:40.035> industry<00:11:40.532> as<00:11:40.756> well,<00:11:41.494> there<00:11:41.799> is<00:11:42.456> this<00:11:42.617> sweet<00:11:42.953> spot<00:11:43.899> where<00:11:44.220> teams<00:11:44.541> can<00:11:44.781> be<00:11:45.343> extremely<00:11:46.802> effective,<00:11:47.572> I<00:11:47.652> feel.

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And<00:11:48.775> anything<00:11:49.095> above<00:11:49.753> maybe<00:11:50.811> a<00:11:50.940> 20-person<00:11:52.158> team,<00:11:53.345> you<00:11:53.457> start<00:11:53.746> to<00:11:53.858> need<00:11:54.083> a<00:11:54.163> bit<00:11:54.307> more<00:11:54.420> structure.

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And<00:11:55.366> like<00:11:55.606> more<00:11:55.767> of<00:11:55.911> your<00:11:56.087> thinking<00:11:56.408> goes<00:11:56.649> around,<00:11:56.889> well,<00:11:57.114> how<00:11:57.210> do<00:11:57.354> I<00:11:58.156> you<00:11:58.188> know,<00:11:58.572> how<00:11:58.653> do<00:11:58.797> I<00:11:58.877> manage<00:11:59.374> and<00:11:59.678> operate<00:12:00.015> this<00:12:00.255> team<00:12:00.495> and<00:12:00.591> so<00:12:00.816> on.

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So,<00:12:02.562> like,<00:12:02.963> I'm<00:12:03.075> selfishly<00:12:03.684> trying<00:12:04.020> to<00:12:04.165> extend<00:12:04.661> the<00:12:04.806> amount<00:12:05.158> of<00:12:05.302> time<00:12:05.607> we<00:12:05.703> stay<00:12:07.145> below<00:12:07.385> 20<00:12:07.690> people<00:12:07.930> as<00:12:08.090> much<00:12:08.251> as<00:12:08.411> possible,<00:12:08.827> but<00:12:08.972> that<00:12:09.212> also<00:12:09.436> means<00:12:09.693> the<00:12:09.789> bar<00:12:09.965> is<00:12:10.173> higher<00:12:10.414> when<00:12:10.526> it<00:12:10.654> comes<00:12:10.782> to<00:12:10.975> hiring.

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But<00:12:12.272> it's<00:12:12.481> such<00:12:12.673> a<00:12:12.737> fun<00:12:13.554> period,<00:12:15.237> you<00:12:15.397> know,<00:12:15.493> sort<00:12:15.637> of<00:12:15.669> like<00:12:15.958> I'm<00:12:16.182> trying<00:12:16.294> to<00:12:16.358> enjoy<00:12:16.599> it<00:12:16.695> as<00:12:16.823> much<00:12:16.999> as<00:12:17.160> possible.

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I'm<00:12:18.041> having<00:12:18.682> the<00:12:18.842> team<00:12:19.098> size<00:12:19.483> be<00:12:19.643> this<00:12:19.723> small<00:12:20.044> and<00:12:20.749> so<00:12:20.909> effective<00:12:21.310> like<00:12:21.486> that.

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Yeah,<00:12:22.511> it's<00:12:22.688> way<00:12:22.864> fun<00:12:23.248> to<00:12:23.393> be<00:12:23.553> able<00:12:23.681> to<00:12:23.793> be<00:12:23.889> that<00:12:24.050> nimble<00:12:24.514> and<00:12:24.690> go<00:12:25.654> that<00:12:25.978> fast<00:12:26.463> and<00:12:26.802> kind<00:12:27.821> of<00:12:27.902> put<00:12:28.064> the<00:12:28.161> whole<00:12:28.387> team<00:12:28.646> in<00:12:28.727> one<00:12:28.888> direction.

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I'm<00:12:29.842> assuming<00:12:30.182> most<00:12:30.376> of<00:12:30.424> them<00:12:30.586> are<00:12:30.667> software<00:12:31.055> developers<00:12:31.702> that<00:12:31.783> you've<00:12:31.944> hired.

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Yeah,<00:12:33.270> software<00:12:33.561> engineers<00:12:33.982> and<00:12:34.305> designers,<00:12:34.790> but<00:12:35.016> they<00:12:35.193> really<00:12:35.498> have<00:12:35.996> a<00:12:36.013> superpower<00:12:36.800> that<00:12:36.897> I<00:12:37.041> look<00:12:37.202> for<00:12:37.524> when<00:12:37.749> hiring,<00:12:38.231> which<00:12:38.408> is,<00:12:39.517> are<00:12:39.597> you<00:12:39.919> able<00:12:40.256> to<00:12:42.812> be<00:12:43.069> also<00:12:43.391> a<00:12:43.600> pseudo<00:12:44.597> product<00:12:44.919> manager<00:12:45.321> as<00:12:45.627> well?

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Can<00:12:46.770> you<00:12:47.252> understand<00:12:47.816> the<00:12:47.896> customer<00:12:48.234> needs?

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Can<00:12:49.248> you<00:12:49.344> empathize<00:12:49.972> with<00:12:50.068> the<00:12:50.149> customer?

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'Can<00:12:51.549> you<00:12:51.695> come<00:12:51.793> up<00:12:51.956> with<00:12:52.053> a<00:12:52.119> solution?'<00:12:53.502> Otherwise,<00:12:53.827> we're<00:12:53.925> going<00:12:54.153> to<00:12:54.185> need<00:12:54.316> an<00:12:54.462> army<00:12:54.723> of<00:12:54.950> PMs<00:12:55.455> here<00:12:55.601> as<00:12:55.780> well,<00:12:56.106> which,<00:12:56.659> you<00:12:56.692> know,<00:12:57.001> we<00:12:57.147> don't<00:12:57.229> want<00:12:57.310> to<00:12:57.408> do.

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Exactly.

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So<00:13:00.260> what<00:13:00.309> does<00:13:00.456> a<00:13:00.521> typical<00:13:00.929> day<00:13:01.093> look<00:13:01.256> like<00:13:01.501> for<00:13:01.582> you?

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So,<00:13:03.871> yeah,<00:13:05.100> you<00:13:05.181> know,<00:13:05.586> I<00:13:05.666> work<00:13:05.909> really<00:13:06.087> hard.

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You<00:13:06.799> know,<00:13:06.960> to<00:13:07.122> me,<00:13:07.300> my<00:13:07.510> workday<00:13:07.850> starts<00:13:08.319> at<00:13:09.856> around<00:13:11.150> 8<00:13:11.393> AM<00:13:11.570> and<00:13:11.651> it<00:13:11.813> ends<00:13:12.040> at<00:13:12.201> about<00:13:13.201> 8<00:13:13.366> PM.

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And<00:13:14.936> I<00:13:15.184> like<00:13:15.515> to<00:13:16.957> I<00:13:17.037> like<00:13:17.230> to<00:13:17.358> start<00:13:17.760> my<00:13:17.920> day<00:13:18.113> fresh<00:13:18.578> every<00:13:18.755> day,<00:13:19.044> as<00:13:19.221> in<00:13:19.526> I,<00:13:20.168> like<00:13:20.345> everyone<00:13:20.650> else,<00:13:20.971> I<00:13:21.051> have<00:13:21.164> a<00:13:21.613> running<00:13:21.934> to-do<00:13:22.191> list,<00:13:22.978> but<00:13:23.074> I<00:13:23.235> sort<00:13:23.379> of<00:13:23.476> like<00:13:23.636> when<00:13:23.733> I<00:13:23.797> start<00:13:24.038> my<00:13:24.198> day,<00:13:24.262> I'm<00:13:24.584> like,<00:13:24.696> okay,<00:13:26.125> assume<00:13:26.944> I'm<00:13:27.153> starting<00:13:27.795> from<00:13:27.955> scratch<00:13:28.373> today.

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Let's<00:13:31.729> come<00:13:31.841> up<00:13:32.002> with<00:13:32.210> our<00:13:32.387> to-do<00:13:32.628> list<00:13:32.853> for<00:13:33.029> this<00:13:33.270> day<00:13:34.073> based<00:13:34.314> on<00:13:34.539> all<00:13:34.571> the<00:13:34.635> information.

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I<00:13:35.759> try<00:13:35.936> my<00:13:36.160> best<00:13:36.465> not<00:13:36.642> to<00:13:36.722> get<00:13:36.963> biased<00:13:37.911> by<00:13:38.087> what<00:13:38.312> was<00:13:38.473> going<00:13:38.794> on<00:13:38.890> yesterday,<00:13:39.275> right?

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Because<00:13:40.640> things<00:13:40.881> change<00:13:41.218> very<00:13:41.459> quickly.

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And<00:13:42.727> what<00:13:42.824> was<00:13:42.984> important<00:13:43.450> yesterday<00:13:43.883> may<00:13:44.028> not<00:13:44.268> be<00:13:44.365> important<00:13:44.750> this<00:13:45.023> morning,<00:13:46.227> right?

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And<00:13:46.660> so<00:13:47.479> to<00:13:47.559> me,<00:13:47.736> that's<00:13:48.025> kind<00:13:48.121> of<00:13:48.587> how<00:13:48.683> the<00:13:48.763> day<00:13:48.940> starts<00:13:49.325> with<00:13:49.726> a<00:13:49.807> bit<00:13:49.903> of<00:13:50.112> planning.

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You<00:13:51.653> know,<00:13:51.813> as<00:13:52.038> a—<00:13:53.081> my<00:13:53.242> first<00:13:53.483> company<00:13:53.804> was<00:13:53.980> done<00:13:54.687> very<00:13:54.927> differently<00:13:55.425> than<00:13:55.666> the<00:13:55.794> second<00:13:56.212> company.

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And<00:13:58.860> one<00:13:59.037> lesson<00:13:59.358> that<00:13:59.502> I<00:13:59.663> learned<00:14:00.000> is<00:14:00.161> that,<00:14:01.188> you<00:14:01.445> know,<00:14:02.312> there's<00:14:03.291> so<00:14:03.628> much<00:14:03.869> value<00:14:04.398> in<00:14:04.816> doing<00:14:05.057> a<00:14:05.137> bit<00:14:05.281> of<00:14:05.442> planning<00:14:06.421> and<00:14:06.501> doing<00:14:06.726> a<00:14:06.742> bit<00:14:06.903> of<00:14:06.983> thinking<00:14:07.464> upfront<00:14:08.091> before<00:14:08.428> anything<00:14:08.829> we<00:14:08.989> take<00:14:09.294> on.

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Right?

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Including<00:14:10.503> planning<00:14:10.761> the<00:14:10.907> day,<00:14:11.229> planning<00:14:11.568> the<00:14:11.649> sprint,<00:14:12.295> planning<00:14:12.924> the<00:14:13.005> quarter,<00:14:13.505> planning<00:14:13.747> the<00:14:13.892> year,<00:14:14.586> right?

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There's<00:14:15.183> a<00:14:15.264> lot<00:14:15.441> of<00:14:15.522> value<00:14:15.926> in<00:14:16.087> doing<00:14:16.394> that<00:14:17.136> work,<00:14:18.169> and<00:14:18.266> you<00:14:18.411> end<00:14:18.572> up<00:14:19.073> producing<00:14:19.785> at<00:14:19.866> a<00:14:19.882> much<00:14:20.124> higher<00:14:20.432> quality<00:14:20.853> if<00:14:21.176> you<00:14:21.322> invest<00:14:21.823> the<00:14:21.969> upfront<00:14:22.390> capital<00:14:22.956> or<00:14:23.037> the<00:14:23.118> time<00:14:24.412> in<00:14:24.898> trying<00:14:24.995> to<00:14:25.626> figure<00:14:25.788> out<00:14:25.933> how,<00:14:26.192> what<00:14:26.839> is<00:14:26.985> the<00:14:27.082> best<00:14:27.325> way<00:14:27.486> to<00:14:27.891> spend<00:14:28.134> your<00:14:28.295> time.

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So<00:14:30.639> what<00:14:30.735> is<00:14:30.880> your<00:14:30.977> sales<00:14:31.362> strategy?

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Are<00:14:31.845> you<00:14:31.877> selling<00:14:32.327> into<00:14:33.050> family<00:14:33.533> offices,<00:14:34.176> just<00:14:34.353> going<00:14:34.594> direct<00:14:35.237> to<00:14:35.960> those<00:14:36.201> folks?

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Like,<00:14:36.844> how<00:14:36.941> do<00:14:37.069> you<00:14:37.246> get<00:14:37.407> people<00:14:37.729> on<00:14:37.873> the<00:14:37.970> platform?

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Yeah,<00:14:39.013> we're<00:14:39.174> going<00:14:39.816> direct.

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Our<00:14:40.378> customers<00:14:41.004> are,<00:14:42.063> I<00:14:42.080> would<00:14:42.224> call<00:14:42.609> them<00:14:43.508> high<00:14:43.589> net<00:14:43.685> worth<00:14:43.910> individuals,<00:14:45.114> $2<00:14:45.194> to<00:14:45.355> $20<00:14:45.596> million<00:14:46.061> in<00:14:46.254> net<00:14:46.543> worth.

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They<00:14:47.827> are<00:14:48.004> doctors,<00:14:48.566> they<00:14:48.646> are<00:14:48.871> lawyers,<00:14:49.352> they're<00:14:50.412> finance<00:14:50.813> folks,<00:14:51.135> they're<00:14:51.359> engineers,<00:14:51.857> they're<00:14:52.018> founders.

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You<00:14:53.559> know,<00:14:54.169> a<00:14:54.185> lot<00:14:54.362> of<00:14:54.426> people<00:14:54.667> work<00:14:54.924> at<00:14:55.052> like<00:14:55.694> Coinbase<00:14:56.031> and<00:14:56.192> Meta<00:14:56.834> and<00:14:56.930> Nvidia,<00:14:57.380> and<00:14:57.717> there's<00:14:58.038> folks<00:14:58.279> who<00:14:58.343> are<00:14:58.600> in<00:14:58.745> VC<00:14:59.242> and,<00:15:00.222> you<00:15:00.302> know,<00:15:00.687> doctors<00:15:01.089> all<00:15:01.233> over<00:15:01.394> the<00:15:01.474> country<00:15:01.891> and<00:15:02.132> dentists.

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We<00:15:05.263> we<00:15:05.424> have<00:15:06.130> learned<00:15:06.628> that<00:15:07.110> building<00:15:07.752> a<00:15:07.832> great<00:15:08.153> product<00:15:08.651> is<00:15:08.860> your<00:15:09.036> best<00:15:09.390> marketing.

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Just,<00:15:11.268> you<00:15:11.348> know,<00:15:11.461> there's<00:15:12.328> nothing<00:15:12.729> better<00:15:12.970> than<00:15:13.131> that<00:15:13.388> because<00:15:14.319> our<00:15:14.480> customers<00:15:15.058> talk<00:15:15.314> about<00:15:15.555> us<00:15:15.652> to<00:15:16.278> their<00:15:16.438> friends,<00:15:17.386> bring<00:15:17.562> us<00:15:17.771> up<00:15:18.012> at<00:15:18.189> dinner,<00:15:18.815> right?

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And<00:15:19.858> I<00:15:19.939> get<00:15:20.115> intros,<00:15:20.918> personal<00:15:21.159> intros<00:15:21.464> from,<00:15:21.625> hey,<00:15:22.765> you<00:15:22.845> know,<00:15:23.070> just<00:15:23.246> introducing<00:15:23.873> my<00:15:24.274> friend<00:15:25.173> to<00:15:25.334> you<00:15:26.361> and<00:15:26.538> to<00:15:26.683> your<00:15:26.939> team.

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And<00:15:27.967> so,<00:15:28.850> you<00:15:29.091> know,<00:15:29.364> the<00:15:30.456> the<00:15:30.552> distribution<00:15:31.098> strategy<00:15:31.660> is<00:15:31.821> literally<00:15:32.174> just<00:15:32.399> building<00:15:32.640> a<00:15:32.720> great<00:15:32.961> product<00:15:33.298> and<00:15:33.603> caring<00:15:33.940> about<00:15:34.149> the<00:15:34.245> customer,<00:15:34.582> understanding<00:15:35.128> their<00:15:35.273> needs,<00:15:36.333> and<00:15:36.413> then<00:15:36.638> having<00:15:37.296> people,<00:15:38.083> you<00:15:38.115> know,<00:15:38.340> just<00:15:38.484> like<00:15:38.645> be<00:15:38.741> delighted<00:15:39.223> and<00:15:39.528> happy.

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And,<00:15:42.097> you<00:15:42.129> know,<00:15:42.739> we<00:15:42.835> tried<00:15:43.221> a<00:15:43.237> bunch<00:15:43.414> of<00:15:43.542> other<00:15:44.586> marketing.

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We<00:15:46.047> do<00:15:46.207> dabble,<00:15:46.834> you<00:15:46.866> know,<00:15:47.074> with<00:15:48.536> sponsoring<00:15:49.338> an<00:15:49.435> event<00:15:49.884> or<00:15:50.848> putting<00:15:51.008> out<00:15:51.121> something<00:15:51.506> in<00:15:51.651> a<00:15:51.683> newsletter,<00:15:52.309> but<00:15:52.710> that's<00:15:53.272> kind<00:15:53.417> of<00:15:53.995> a<00:15:54.011> nice<00:15:54.396> to<00:15:54.557> have<00:15:54.878> at<00:15:54.958> this<00:15:55.055> point.

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Yeah,<00:15:56.481> the<00:15:56.578> core,<00:15:57.533> the<00:15:57.630> core<00:15:57.857> growth<00:15:58.116> engine<00:15:58.358> for<00:15:58.520> us<00:15:58.682> is<00:15:58.828> word<00:15:58.941> of<00:15:59.070> mouth.

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That's,<00:16:01.309> that's<00:16:01.471> incredible.

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I'm<00:16:01.907> sure<00:16:02.020> you<00:16:02.214> read<00:16:02.522> Paul<00:16:02.845> Graham's<00:16:03.573> essay<00:16:03.993> around<00:16:04.300> founder<00:16:04.704> mode,<00:16:05.044> and<00:16:05.125> I<00:16:05.270> just<00:16:05.432> want<00:16:05.513> to<00:16:05.545> go<00:16:05.691> back<00:16:05.852> to<00:16:05.949> a<00:16:06.014> little<00:16:06.192> bit<00:16:06.337> like<00:16:06.564> keeping<00:16:06.823> the<00:16:06.968> team<00:16:07.211> small,<00:16:08.222> making<00:16:08.464> sure<00:16:08.642> the<00:16:08.706> founder<00:16:09.351> retains<00:16:09.835> control.

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That<00:16:10.497> seems<00:16:10.787> like<00:16:10.884> that's<00:16:11.126> really<00:16:11.351> important<00:16:11.771> to<00:16:11.916> you.

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Are<00:16:12.884> you<00:16:12.997> seeing<00:16:13.384> that<00:16:13.610> more<00:16:13.722> and<00:16:13.803> more<00:16:13.948> with<00:16:14.093> your<00:16:14.255> peers<00:16:14.739> in<00:16:14.835> Silicon<00:16:15.222> Valley?

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Like<00:16:16.467> what<00:16:16.613> advice<00:16:17.033> would<00:16:17.179> you<00:16:17.276> have<00:16:17.680> for<00:16:18.246> first-time<00:16:18.731> founders<00:16:19.443> or<00:16:19.572> folks<00:16:20.559> like<00:16:20.753> that<00:16:21.060> around<00:16:22.474> founder<00:16:22.861> mode,<00:16:23.265> I<00:16:23.362> guess?

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Yeah,<00:16:25.201> I<00:16:25.217> would<00:16:25.379> just<00:16:25.540> like<00:16:25.766> question<00:16:26.347> everything<00:16:27.138> that<00:16:27.299> is<00:16:27.945> common<00:16:28.268> conventional<00:16:28.849> wisdom<00:16:29.398> out<00:16:29.575> there.

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I'll<00:16:31.108> give<00:16:31.286> you<00:16:31.431> an<00:16:31.496> example,<00:16:31.678> like<00:16:32.158> one<00:16:32.506> sort<00:16:32.655> of<00:16:32.755> like,<00:16:35.014> one<00:16:35.177> thing<00:16:35.340> that<00:16:35.568> was<00:16:35.747> taken<00:16:36.953> as<00:16:37.133> like<00:16:37.312> a<00:16:37.394> sort<00:16:37.524> of<00:16:37.606> like<00:16:37.769> a<00:16:37.866> rule<00:16:38.192> in<00:16:38.290> Silicon<00:16:38.681> Valley<00:16:38.991> was<00:16:39.089> like,<00:16:39.236> hey,<00:16:39.415> you<00:16:39.725> absolutely<00:16:40.002> need<00:16:40.230> a<00:16:40.312> co-founder.

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You<00:16:41.635> should,<00:16:42.105> when<00:16:42.186> you<00:16:42.267> start<00:16:42.445> a<00:16:42.510> company,<00:16:43.482> you<00:16:43.563> should<00:16:43.806> have<00:16:44.243> someone<00:16:44.616> else<00:16:45.766> be<00:16:45.928> there.

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And<00:16:47.305> maybe<00:16:47.548> that's<00:16:47.856> a<00:16:47.953> good<00:16:48.180> thing<00:16:48.342> for<00:16:48.504> investors<00:16:49.038> because<00:16:49.265> it<00:16:49.297> gives<00:16:49.470> gives<00:16:49.742> them<00:16:49.903> some<00:16:50.063> redundancy<00:16:50.625> in<00:16:50.657> case<00:16:51.091> one<00:16:51.412> founder<00:16:51.990> burns<00:16:52.295> out.

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But,<00:16:53.659> you<00:16:54.301> know,<00:16:54.943> the<00:16:55.040> way<00:16:55.200> I<00:16:55.345> thought<00:16:55.537> about<00:16:55.826> it<00:16:56.645> for<00:16:56.886> the<00:16:57.030> company<00:16:57.367> was<00:16:57.528> sort<00:16:57.608> of<00:16:57.672> like<00:16:57.913> from<00:16:58.025> a<00:16:58.170> different<00:16:58.491> point<00:16:58.651> of<00:16:58.732> view.

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I<00:16:58.956> was<00:16:59.004> like,<00:16:59.229> well,<00:16:59.454> if<00:16:59.550> I<00:16:59.614> have<00:16:59.791> a<00:16:59.855> co-founder,<00:17:00.401> then<00:17:00.465> I'm<00:17:00.642> splitting<00:17:01.043> the<00:17:01.139> company<00:17:02.424> equally<00:17:02.745> with<00:17:02.905> them,<00:17:03.772> with<00:17:03.933> one<00:17:04.109> person.

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What<00:17:05.136> if<00:17:05.297> I<00:17:05.538> actually,<00:17:06.276> what<00:17:06.421> if<00:17:06.517> my<00:17:06.661> first<00:17:06.982> 20<00:17:07.223> people<00:17:07.625> are<00:17:07.737> extremely<00:17:08.427> highly<00:17:09.647> motivated<00:17:10.209> to<00:17:10.450> be,<00:17:10.594> you<00:17:11.413> know,<00:17:11.959> at<00:17:12.055> the<00:17:12.135> company?

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So<00:17:13.179> what<00:17:13.403> if<00:17:13.435> I'm<00:17:13.724> overly<00:17:14.061> generous<00:17:14.784> in<00:17:15.009> equity<00:17:15.265> grants<00:17:15.747> to<00:17:16.004> our<00:17:16.132> first<00:17:16.469> 20<00:17:16.710> people?

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And<00:17:17.576> can<00:17:17.817> they<00:17:17.993> collectively<00:17:18.634> be<00:17:18.795> the<00:17:18.875> co-founder?

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And<00:17:20.221> so<00:17:20.718> I<00:17:20.798> think<00:17:20.975> in<00:17:21.375> overall,<00:17:22.305> the<00:17:22.385> Founder<00:17:22.962> Mode<00:17:23.267> essay<00:17:23.748> kind<00:17:23.924> of<00:17:25.591> is<00:17:26.313> an<00:17:26.393> example<00:17:26.890> of<00:17:27.114> you<00:17:27.275> questioning<00:17:28.252> the<00:17:28.349> status<00:17:28.878> quo<00:17:29.839> and<00:17:30.080> thinking<00:17:30.400> for<00:17:30.497> yourself.

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And,<00:17:32.164> you<00:17:32.196> know,<00:17:32.340> I<00:17:32.420> think<00:17:32.580> that's,<00:17:32.965> that's<00:17:33.142> a<00:17:33.158> very<00:17:33.398> healthy<00:17:33.927> thing<00:17:34.103> to<00:17:34.183> do.

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You<00:17:34.584> need<00:17:35.225> to<00:17:35.258> sort<00:17:35.370> of<00:17:35.402> like,<00:17:35.787> I<00:17:36.027> guess<00:17:36.348> the<00:17:36.508> advice<00:17:36.909> I'd<00:17:37.069> give<00:17:37.309> to<00:17:37.390> people<00:17:37.886> is<00:17:38.111> just<00:17:38.271> have<00:17:38.431> the<00:17:38.592> courage<00:17:38.993> and<00:17:39.137> confidence<00:17:40.195> to<00:17:40.435> question<00:17:41.477> conventional<00:17:41.958> wisdom<00:17:42.295> and<00:17:42.439> do<00:17:42.599> things<00:17:42.760> your<00:17:42.824> own<00:17:43.064> way<00:17:43.160> that<00:17:43.257> makes<00:17:43.481> sense<00:17:43.625> to<00:17:43.657> you.

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To<00:17:43.866> use.

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What<00:17:45.173> do<00:17:45.238> you<00:17:45.415> read?

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What<00:17:46.044> reading<00:17:46.286> recommendations<00:17:47.012> would<00:17:47.125> you<00:17:47.254> have<00:17:47.432> for<00:17:47.674> us?

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Yeah,<00:17:50.400> I<00:17:50.481> read<00:17:50.642> a<00:17:50.658> lot<00:17:50.884> of<00:17:50.964> technical<00:17:51.465> things<00:17:51.884> about<00:17:53.158> my<00:17:53.384> job<00:17:53.562> and<00:17:53.643> my<00:17:54.274> work<00:17:55.165> at<00:17:55.343> Freck.

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But,<00:17:57.367> and<00:17:57.609> then,<00:17:57.917> you<00:17:57.949> know,<00:17:58.160> every<00:17:58.273> now<00:17:58.435> and<00:17:58.581> then<00:17:58.824> I<00:17:58.969> like<00:17:59.164> to<00:18:00.848> read<00:18:01.074> a<00:18:01.107> little<00:18:01.317> bit<00:18:02.385> outside<00:18:02.805> of<00:18:02.951> that,<00:18:03.339> just,<00:18:04.955> you<00:18:04.988> know,<00:18:05.214> stay<00:18:06.911> sort<00:18:06.992> of<00:18:07.138> like,<00:18:07.396> I<00:18:07.606> have<00:18:07.784> other<00:18:08.043> interests.

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Of<00:18:08.673> course,<00:18:09.013> I<00:18:09.239> love<00:18:09.482> my<00:18:09.643> work.

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And<00:18:10.276> I<00:18:10.373> wake<00:18:10.549> up<00:18:10.694> every<00:18:10.919> morning<00:18:11.272> extremely<00:18:11.722> excited<00:18:12.075> about<00:18:12.300> it.

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But<00:18:12.556> I<00:18:12.765> also,<00:18:14.291> you<00:18:14.371> know,<00:18:14.467> in<00:18:14.628> general,<00:18:15.366> I'm<00:18:15.655> a<00:18:15.752> huge<00:18:16.378> enthusiast<00:18:17.133> about,<00:18:17.662> you<00:18:17.839> know,<00:18:19.493> health.

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I<00:18:20.151> love<00:18:20.874> reading<00:18:21.131> about,<00:18:22.817> you<00:18:22.913> know,<00:18:24.101> the<00:18:24.246> latest<00:18:25.386> and<00:18:25.610> greatest<00:18:26.028> research<00:18:27.136> in<00:18:27.473> terms<00:18:27.714> of<00:18:27.794> like<00:18:27.971> increasing<00:18:28.436> longevity,<00:18:30.283> about<00:18:30.604> living<00:18:31.005> like<00:18:31.182> a<00:18:31.246> healthy<00:18:31.551> life,<00:18:32.113> mental<00:18:32.370> health.

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I<00:18:33.799> also<00:18:34.939> am<00:18:35.084> a<00:18:35.662> history<00:18:35.806> geek<00:18:36.047> as<00:18:36.223> well.

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I<00:18:36.544> like<00:18:36.848> reading<00:18:37.089> history,<00:18:37.297> so<00:18:37.362> I'm<00:18:37.522> on<00:18:37.746> Wikipedia.

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Like,<00:18:38.612> every,<00:18:39.190> every<00:18:39.286> now<00:18:39.446> and<00:18:39.526> then<00:18:39.735> when<00:18:39.831> I<00:18:39.847> need<00:18:40.071> a<00:18:40.152> bit<00:18:40.248> of<00:18:40.328> a<00:18:40.392> mental<00:18:40.777> break,<00:18:41.595> I<00:18:41.675> go<00:18:41.835> and<00:18:41.996> read<00:18:42.172> about<00:18:42.461> some,<00:18:43.279> something<00:18:43.615> or<00:18:43.776> the<00:18:43.920> other<00:18:44.561> that<00:18:44.706> happened<00:18:45.042> in<00:18:45.123> the<00:18:45.283> past<00:18:45.684> and<00:18:45.956> sort<00:18:46.181> of<00:18:46.229> like<00:18:46.389> trying<00:18:46.903> to<00:18:46.967> see<00:18:47.191> like<00:18:47.368> what<00:18:47.592> learnings<00:18:47.945> do<00:18:48.073> we<00:18:48.153> have<00:18:48.250> from<00:18:48.490> that.

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Um,<00:18:49.773> and<00:18:49.933> so,<00:18:50.238> you<00:18:50.270> know,<00:18:50.511> nothing<00:18:51.713> specific,<00:18:52.483> I<00:18:52.563> guess,<00:18:52.820> no<00:18:52.964> specific<00:18:53.541> book<00:18:53.766> recommendations<00:18:54.503> or<00:18:54.584> anything<00:18:54.824> like<00:18:54.984> that.

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But,<00:18:55.610> um,<00:18:56.492> you<00:18:56.572> know,<00:18:56.668> it's,<00:18:57.710> as<00:18:58.047> a<00:18:58.111> founder,<00:18:58.432> it's<00:18:58.592> like<00:18:58.737> pretty<00:18:58.913> hard<00:18:59.154> to<00:18:59.250> find<00:18:59.474> time<00:19:00.180> to<00:19:00.372> actually<00:19:01.318> deep<00:19:01.559> dive<00:19:01.799> into<00:19:02.024> a<00:19:02.104> book,<00:19:02.425> but<00:19:02.858> If<00:19:03.002> I<00:19:03.099> had<00:19:03.259> the<00:19:03.388> time,<00:19:03.661> I'd<00:19:03.805> read<00:19:03.966> more<00:19:04.126> biographies<00:19:04.721> for<00:19:04.929> sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,<00:19:06.952> for<00:19:07.177> sure.

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So<00:19:08.381> 2024<00:19:09.088> was<00:19:09.345> kind<00:19:09.586> of<00:19:09.682> a<00:19:09.827> bit<00:19:10.212> of<00:19:10.950> an<00:19:11.095> interesting<00:19:11.834> economic<00:19:12.331> environment,<00:19:13.022> right?

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It's<00:19:13.503> kind<00:19:13.568> of<00:19:13.600> like<00:19:13.760> this<00:19:14.017> mixed<00:19:14.403> bag.

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I'm<00:19:15.671> trying—<00:19:15.848> and<00:19:15.928> there<00:19:16.008> was<00:19:16.153> a<00:19:16.169> lot<00:19:16.394> of<00:19:16.426> uncertainty,<00:19:17.052> particularly<00:19:17.453> going<00:19:17.694> into<00:19:17.951> the<00:19:18.096> election,<00:19:18.417> not<00:19:18.577> just<00:19:18.722> in<00:19:18.802> the<00:19:18.834> United<00:19:18.995> States,<00:19:19.380> but<00:19:19.460> there<00:19:19.541> was<00:19:19.637> like<00:19:19.846> 25<00:19:20.344> countries<00:19:20.649> that<00:19:20.729> had<00:19:20.890> elections.

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And<00:19:21.789> now<00:19:22.013> all<00:19:22.206> of<00:19:22.335> those<00:19:22.848> are<00:19:23.057> over<00:19:23.555> and<00:19:23.635> we're<00:19:23.860> looking<00:19:24.101> into<00:19:24.277> 2025.

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How<00:19:25.466> are<00:19:25.642> you<00:19:25.883> looking<00:19:26.285> at<00:19:26.429> that<00:19:26.991> economic<00:19:27.730> environment?

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It<00:19:30.239> seems<00:19:30.787> like<00:19:34.009> the<00:19:34.170> vibe<00:19:34.509> has<00:19:34.815> shifted<00:19:35.379> a<00:19:35.395> little<00:19:35.556> bit<00:19:35.733> in<00:19:35.814> terms<00:19:36.587> of,<00:19:38.900> you<00:19:39.029> know,<00:19:39.336> there's<00:19:41.035> clearly<00:19:41.520> a<00:19:41.601> bit<00:19:41.779> more<00:19:41.925> excitement<00:19:42.637> about,<00:19:43.624> you<00:19:43.705> know,<00:19:44.740> investing<00:19:45.339> in<00:19:45.630> assets<00:19:46.050> in<00:19:46.196> general,<00:19:47.248> you<00:19:47.280> know,<00:19:47.571> whether<00:19:47.668> it's<00:19:47.830> real<00:19:47.976> estate<00:19:48.394> or<00:19:49.199> the<00:19:49.295> stock<00:19:49.666> market.

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I've<00:19:51.195> always<00:19:51.517> been<00:19:53.062> of<00:19:53.207> the<00:19:53.770> point<00:19:53.931> of<00:19:54.011> view<00:19:54.414> that<00:19:55.473> You<00:19:55.569> know,<00:19:55.681> if<00:19:55.778> you<00:19:55.810> have<00:19:56.018> a<00:19:56.115> long-term<00:19:56.740> horizon,<00:19:57.879> what<00:19:58.024> does<00:19:58.136> it<00:19:58.281> matter<00:19:59.002> whether<00:19:59.323> you<00:20:00.462> invest<00:20:00.912> your<00:20:00.960> money<00:20:01.794> this<00:20:02.051> week<00:20:02.516> or<00:20:02.676> next<00:20:02.997> month<00:20:03.254> or<00:20:03.350> next<00:20:03.719> year?

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It<00:20:04.217> doesn't<00:20:04.521> really<00:20:04.698> matter<00:20:05.019> if<00:20:05.163> you're<00:20:05.259> going<00:20:05.356> to<00:20:05.981> invest<00:20:06.382> it<00:20:06.607> for<00:20:06.848> the<00:20:06.928> next<00:20:07.265> 30,<00:20:07.570> 40<00:20:07.907> years.

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Your<00:20:08.372> entry<00:20:08.773> point<00:20:10.153> doesn't<00:20:10.425> need<00:20:10.538> to<00:20:10.618> be<00:20:10.698> micro-optimized<00:20:11.950> to<00:20:12.014> the<00:20:12.238> right<00:20:12.559> week<00:20:12.800> or<00:20:12.864> month,<00:20:13.345> right?

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But,<00:20:14.725> you<00:20:14.805> know,<00:20:15.206> I<00:20:15.222> certainly<00:20:15.848> think<00:20:16.089> that<00:20:17.132> in<00:20:17.276> the<00:20:17.356> grand<00:20:17.597> scheme<00:20:17.870> of<00:20:18.014> things,<00:20:18.495> you<00:20:18.592> know,<00:20:18.720> maybe<00:20:19.137> the<00:20:19.217> next<00:20:19.843> 2<00:20:19.875> or<00:20:19.939> 3<00:20:20.180> years<00:20:20.823> are<00:20:21.054> going<00:20:21.237> to<00:20:21.402> be<00:20:21.568> good<00:20:21.816> for<00:20:22.478> assets<00:20:22.892> in<00:20:22.975> general,<00:20:25.270> stocks,<00:20:25.864> real<00:20:26.009> estate,<00:20:26.571> certainly<00:20:26.812> crypto,<00:20:27.551> Bitcoin.

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But<00:20:29.704> it<00:20:30.444> doesn't<00:20:30.749> really<00:20:30.910> matter<00:20:31.247> that<00:20:31.343> much<00:20:31.568> in<00:20:31.649> the<00:20:31.809> very,<00:20:32.115> very<00:20:32.372> long<00:20:32.613> term.

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I<00:20:33.272> think<00:20:33.497> if<00:20:34.220> you<00:20:34.300> take<00:20:34.605> a<00:20:34.670> longer<00:20:35.091> arc<00:20:35.513> and<00:20:35.595> look<00:20:35.773> at<00:20:35.903> it<00:20:37.055> in<00:20:37.137> the<00:20:37.364> year<00:20:37.851> 2060,<00:20:41.986> 2070,<00:20:43.370> would<00:20:43.468> it<00:20:43.615> have<00:20:43.778> mattered<00:20:44.201> who<00:20:44.266> was<00:20:44.446> president<00:20:45.016> the<00:20:45.097> next<00:20:45.342> 4<00:20:45.570> years?

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Like,<00:20:46.107> I'm<00:20:46.172> not<00:20:46.400> so<00:20:46.629> sure.

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Exactly.

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That's<00:20:49.967> an<00:20:50.096> interesting—<00:20:50.449> I<00:20:50.497> was<00:20:50.754> going<00:20:50.866> to<00:20:50.898> ask<00:20:51.075> you<00:20:51.219> about<00:20:51.316> Bitcoin<00:20:51.781> actually,<00:20:52.279> and<00:20:53.002> in<00:20:53.066> particular<00:20:53.467> kind<00:20:53.628> of<00:20:53.708> like<00:20:53.869> what<00:20:54.029> Michael<00:20:54.350> Saylor's<00:20:54.768> doing<00:20:55.153> over<00:20:55.314> there<00:20:55.570> at<00:20:55.731> MicroStrategy,<00:20:56.534> which<00:20:56.694> is<00:20:56.775> a<00:20:56.839> fascinating,<00:20:58.139> just<00:20:58.300> a<00:20:58.364> fascinating<00:20:58.926> model.

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But<00:21:00.307> what<00:21:00.451> is<00:21:00.532> your<00:21:00.692> take<00:21:01.093> on<00:21:01.591> Bitcoin<00:21:02.233> and<00:21:02.458> how<00:21:02.555> do<00:21:02.715> you<00:21:02.940> think<00:21:03.197> about<00:21:03.454> it<00:21:03.582> in<00:21:03.662> comparison<00:21:04.160> to<00:21:04.401> kind<00:21:04.561> of<00:21:04.626> like<00:21:04.866> the<00:21:04.963> product<00:21:05.284> that<00:21:05.428> you<00:21:05.525> offer?

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I<00:21:06.729> certainly<00:21:07.211> think<00:21:08.094> it<00:21:08.238> is<00:21:09.201> when<00:21:09.282> it<00:21:09.362> comes<00:21:09.539> to<00:21:09.699> portfolio<00:21:10.325> allocation,<00:21:12.268> folks<00:21:12.509> have<00:21:12.750> different<00:21:13.071> points<00:21:13.312> of<00:21:13.376> view<00:21:13.536> on<00:21:13.777> how<00:21:13.954> to<00:21:14.098> allocate<00:21:14.660> their<00:21:14.773> money.

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Some<00:21:15.399> folks<00:21:15.720> are<00:21:15.800> like,<00:21:16.282> I'm<00:21:16.603> going<00:21:16.925> to<00:21:17.005> go<00:21:17.101> 90%<00:21:17.407> stocks<00:21:18.435> and<00:21:18.644> 10%<00:21:19.255> T-bills,<00:21:20.138> and<00:21:20.380> I'm<00:21:20.862> good<00:21:21.087> with<00:21:21.183> that.

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And<00:21:21.585> other<00:21:21.745> folks<00:21:22.051> are<00:21:22.083> like,<00:21:22.227> well,<00:21:22.485> no,<00:21:22.613> I<00:21:22.774> want<00:21:22.870> some<00:21:23.031> commodity<00:21:23.513> exposure.

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And<00:21:25.361> I<00:21:25.441> think<00:21:25.746> Bitcoin<00:21:26.148> fits<00:21:26.405> into<00:21:26.646> that<00:21:26.919> commodity<00:21:28.735> bucket.

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Maybe<00:21:29.844> gold<00:21:30.165> and<00:21:30.262> Bitcoin<00:21:30.728> together<00:21:31.853> make<00:21:32.817> up<00:21:32.913> for<00:21:33.074> a<00:21:33.170> nice<00:21:33.620> commodity<00:21:34.761> slice<00:21:35.340> of<00:21:35.548> a<00:21:35.870> portfolio.

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It's<00:21:37.798> not<00:21:37.975> a<00:21:38.039> force<00:21:38.296> that<00:21:38.457> can<00:21:38.618> be<00:21:38.698> ignored<00:21:39.116> anymore.

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I<00:21:39.646> think<00:21:39.823> it<00:21:39.967> certainly<00:21:40.465> is<00:21:42.714> a<00:21:42.875> legit,<00:21:44.062> um,<00:21:44.239> sort<00:21:44.383> of<00:21:44.464> like<00:21:44.785> place<00:21:45.041> to<00:21:45.202> park<00:21:45.459> a<00:21:45.523> bit<00:21:45.667> of<00:21:45.780> money,<00:21:46.871> uh,<00:21:47.128> as<00:21:47.288> a<00:21:47.353> hedge<00:21:48.011> against<00:21:48.813> potentially<00:21:49.198> inflation.

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And<00:21:50.482> that's<00:21:50.884> my<00:21:51.060> point<00:21:51.237> of<00:21:51.301> view<00:21:51.461> on<00:21:51.638> it.

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I<00:21:51.991> have<00:21:52.103> a<00:21:52.505> bit<00:21:52.649> of<00:21:52.826> Bitcoin,<00:21:53.307> a<00:21:53.387> tiny<00:21:53.628> exposure<00:21:54.110> personally<00:21:54.447> myself,<00:21:55.394> uh,<00:21:56.276> and,<00:21:56.662> um,<00:21:57.079> yeah,<00:21:57.223> I<00:21:57.384> think<00:21:57.641> it's<00:21:58.668> a<00:21:58.684> responsible<00:21:59.326> thing<00:21:59.627> to<00:21:59.647> do,<00:22:00.353> uh,<00:22:01.091> buy<00:22:01.332> a<00:22:01.493> bit<00:22:01.637> of<00:22:01.749> it,<00:22:02.359> um,<00:22:02.761> just<00:22:03.820> to<00:22:04.045> hedge<00:22:04.237> against<00:22:04.558> inflation<00:22:06.067> mostly.

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Yeah.

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Finally,<00:22:08.684> we<00:22:08.845> end<00:22:09.006> every<00:22:09.150> interview<00:22:09.568> with<00:22:09.713> the<00:22:09.794> same<00:22:10.035> question,<00:22:10.694> and<00:22:10.775> that<00:22:11.000> is<00:22:11.113> at<00:22:11.193> CEO.com,<00:22:11.981> we<00:22:12.142> believe<00:22:12.367> the<00:22:12.464> chances<00:22:12.946> one<00:22:13.268> gives<00:22:13.895> is<00:22:13.992> just<00:22:14.072> as<00:22:14.233> important<00:22:14.555> as<00:22:14.635> the<00:22:14.780> chances<00:22:15.118> one<00:22:15.279> takes.

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When<00:22:16.619> you<00:22:16.852> hear<00:22:17.051> that,<00:22:17.284> who<00:22:17.450> gave<00:22:17.683> you<00:22:17.783> a<00:22:17.850> chance<00:22:18.182> to<00:22:18.282> get<00:22:18.432> you<00:22:18.531> to<00:22:18.598> where<00:22:18.764> you<00:22:18.947> are<00:22:18.980> today?

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You<00:22:21.317> know,<00:22:23.661> I<00:22:23.758> always<00:22:24.001> think<00:22:24.179> about<00:22:24.405> this<00:22:24.712> because<00:22:25.957> in<00:22:26.087> my<00:22:26.264> first<00:22:26.749> year<00:22:27.380> of<00:22:27.995> college,<00:22:28.754> of<00:22:28.851> university,<00:22:29.417> I<00:22:29.498> went<00:22:29.660> to<00:22:29.789> University<00:22:30.679> of<00:22:30.760> Waterloo<00:22:30.954> in<00:22:31.116> Canada.

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It's<00:22:31.926> a<00:22:32.801> very<00:22:33.044> technical<00:22:33.465> school.

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Some<00:22:34.275> folks<00:22:34.599> call<00:22:34.761> it<00:22:34.842> the<00:22:34.907> MIT<00:22:35.409> of<00:22:35.838> of<00:22:35.982> Canada,<00:22:36.928> but<00:22:37.041> it's<00:22:37.185> a<00:22:37.265> very<00:22:37.586> competitive<00:22:38.292> school,<00:22:38.645> extremely.

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And<00:22:40.794> we<00:22:40.939> have<00:22:41.195> this<00:22:41.580> co-op<00:22:42.382> program.

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So<00:22:43.040> basically<00:22:43.505> you<00:22:43.666> have<00:22:43.842> to<00:22:43.986> alternate<00:22:44.468> between<00:22:44.804> school<00:22:45.350> and<00:22:45.526> work<00:22:46.489> for<00:22:47.114> every<00:22:47.275> 4<00:22:47.467> months<00:22:47.852> until<00:22:48.077> you<00:22:48.237> graduate<00:22:48.734> and<00:22:48.815> you<00:22:48.895> graduate<00:22:49.376> with<00:22:49.601> 2<00:22:49.665> years<00:22:49.873> of<00:22:49.954> experience.

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And<00:22:51.846> I,<00:22:52.023> in<00:22:52.119> my<00:22:52.263> first<00:22:52.648> year,<00:22:52.809> struggled<00:22:53.386> to<00:22:53.547> get<00:22:54.108> an<00:22:54.269> internship.

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I,<00:22:56.338> you<00:22:56.370> know,<00:22:56.578> for<00:22:56.691> some<00:22:56.899> reason,<00:22:57.942> all<00:22:59.498> my<00:22:59.803> friends,<00:23:01.984> my<00:23:02.129> colleagues<00:23:02.674> landed<00:23:04.214> really<00:23:04.455> jobs<00:23:04.856> early<00:23:05.161> on<00:23:05.498> and<00:23:05.980> some<00:23:06.060> of<00:23:06.140> them<00:23:06.284> wanted<00:23:06.525> to<00:23:06.605> stay<00:23:06.862> in<00:23:07.007> Toronto,<00:23:07.376> some<00:23:07.568> of<00:23:07.665> them<00:23:07.809> wanted<00:23:08.066> to<00:23:08.226> sort<00:23:08.307> of<00:23:08.387> like,<00:23:09.013> you<00:23:09.045> know,<00:23:09.189> be<00:23:09.334> close<00:23:09.574> to<00:23:09.655> family,<00:23:09.960> etc.

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I<00:23:10.473> wasn't<00:23:10.778> really<00:23:11.035> like,<00:23:11.436> sort<00:23:11.516> of<00:23:11.596> like<00:23:12.303> hell-bent<00:23:12.784> on<00:23:12.880> a<00:23:12.961> specific<00:23:14.068> area<00:23:14.309> or<00:23:14.405> anything<00:23:14.646> like<00:23:14.870> that,<00:23:15.111> but<00:23:15.865> you<00:23:16.026> know,<00:23:16.154> and<00:23:16.315> also<00:23:16.491> first<00:23:16.732> year<00:23:16.892> college,<00:23:17.213> you<00:23:17.294> don't<00:23:17.454> really<00:23:17.679> get,<00:23:18.240> you<00:23:18.321> don't<00:23:18.417> have<00:23:18.593> experience,<00:23:19.139> right?

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So<00:23:19.396> no<00:23:19.540> one's<00:23:19.685> looking<00:23:19.877> at<00:23:20.022> your<00:23:20.567> resume<00:23:20.840> and<00:23:21.370> choosing<00:23:21.867> to<00:23:21.931> interview<00:23:22.814> you.

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And<00:23:24.339> I<00:23:24.756> feel<00:23:24.981> like<00:23:25.221> I<00:23:26.024> really<00:23:26.264> lucked<00:23:26.585> out.

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Like,<00:23:26.987> so<00:23:28.126> in<00:23:28.206> my<00:23:28.832> sort<00:23:29.105> of<00:23:29.330> like<00:23:29.683> the<00:23:29.747> lab,<00:23:30.132> last<00:23:30.532> week<00:23:30.837> of<00:23:30.997> school,<00:23:32.279> I<00:23:32.375> got<00:23:32.551> an<00:23:32.776> interview<00:23:33.641> at<00:23:34.154> ATI,<00:23:34.683> which<00:23:34.859> is<00:23:35.019> now<00:23:35.195> AMD.

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And,<00:23:38.224> you<00:23:38.320> know,<00:23:38.384> I<00:23:38.464> walked<00:23:38.849> in<00:23:39.666> and<00:23:39.746> I<00:23:39.810> was<00:23:39.987> very<00:23:40.163> sort<00:23:40.307> of<00:23:40.387> like<00:23:40.628> excited<00:23:41.108> to<00:23:41.413> have<00:23:41.573> my<00:23:41.653> first<00:23:41.910> interview.

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And<00:23:43.592> the<00:23:43.720> hiring<00:23:44.137> manager<00:23:44.538> clearly<00:23:45.034> just<00:23:45.339> took<00:23:46.332> a<00:23:46.396> bet<00:23:46.621> on<00:23:46.813> me.

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He<00:23:48.159> just<00:23:48.399> went<00:23:48.720> in<00:23:48.816> and<00:23:48.944> said,<00:23:49.136> okay,<00:23:49.377> we're<00:23:49.617> going<00:23:49.761> to<00:23:49.793> try<00:23:50.178> it.

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You<00:23:50.418> know,<00:23:50.547> I<00:23:50.643> was<00:23:50.867> clearly<00:23:51.284> very<00:23:51.524> desperate<00:23:52.405> to<00:23:52.550> get<00:23:52.966> the<00:23:53.110> first<00:23:53.367> internship,<00:23:53.912> but<00:23:54.424> I'm<00:23:54.569> very<00:23:54.809> thankful<00:23:55.386> to<00:23:55.530> him<00:23:55.851> for<00:23:56.460> believing<00:23:56.797> in<00:23:56.877> me.

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And<00:23:57.070> that<00:23:57.230> sort<00:23:57.391> of<00:23:57.455> like<00:23:57.632> started<00:23:58.097> me<00:23:58.258> out<00:23:58.499> on<00:23:58.643> this<00:23:58.820> like<00:23:59.061> path<00:23:59.318> of,<00:24:00.329> you<00:24:00.586> know,<00:24:01.228> working<00:24:01.549> in<00:24:01.710> tech<00:24:02.978> and<00:24:04.102> getting<00:24:04.921> and<00:24:05.162> understanding<00:24:06.704> sort<00:24:06.848> of<00:24:06.928> like<00:24:07.089> what<00:24:07.250> I<00:24:07.410> want<00:24:07.603> to<00:24:08.374> be<00:24:08.534> doing<00:24:08.791> in<00:24:08.919> the<00:24:08.952> future.

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And<00:24:10.284> I<00:24:10.332> don't<00:24:10.557> know<00:24:10.718> that<00:24:10.943> I'd<00:24:11.103> be<00:24:11.248> here<00:24:11.408> today<00:24:12.002> if<00:24:12.147> it<00:24:12.211> wasn't<00:24:12.468> for<00:24:12.629> the<00:24:12.773> hiring<00:24:13.110> manager<00:24:13.576> taking<00:24:13.865> sort<00:24:14.250> of<00:24:14.282> like<00:24:14.395> a<00:24:14.539> chance<00:24:14.876> on<00:24:15.133> me<00:24:16.000> as<00:24:16.097> an<00:24:16.322> intern,<00:24:16.707> as<00:24:16.819> a<00:24:16.867> first-year<00:24:17.510> 18-year-old<00:24:18.569> intern,<00:24:18.987> didn't<00:24:19.774> really<00:24:20.175> know<00:24:20.271> much<00:24:20.512> about<00:24:20.737> anything.

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That's<00:24:22.183> incredible.

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Mo,<00:24:22.989> thank<00:24:23.230> you<00:24:23.295> so<00:24:23.488> much<00:24:23.875> for<00:24:23.956> coming<00:24:24.181> on<00:24:24.278> the<00:24:24.375> show.

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Uh,<00:24:25.567> congratulations<00:24:26.309> on<00:24:26.373> everything<00:24:26.679> you've<00:24:26.760> done.

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I'm<00:24:27.098> sure<00:24:27.260> we'll<00:24:27.405> check<00:24:27.663> in<00:24:27.743> again<00:24:28.065> at<00:24:28.162> some<00:24:28.452> point<00:24:28.613> down<00:24:28.775> the<00:24:28.855> road<00:24:29.194> and<00:24:29.903> thanks<00:24:30.080> for<00:24:30.144> coming<00:24:30.323> on.

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Yeah,<00:24:31.156> really<00:24:31.323> appreciate<00:24:31.890> it.

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Thanks,<00:24:32.806> Clint.