The investor who got burned first

Anthony Georgiades could not code, so he hired someone who said he could. He was a college freshman studying finance, building what he describes as Uber for tutoring. Nine months in, with launch approaching, there was nothing to launch. "I realized there's no product. Nothing's there. He's been bringing us along for a great ride," Georgiades said on the CEO.com Podcast.

"I decided I'd never wanted to go down a path where I didn't really know what I didn't know," he said. So he learned. Computer science courses. A seat on the investment team at First Round Capital. A master's in computer science and robotics. Then he found the Golem Network, an early Ethereum application, and started contributing to its open source repositories, writing smart contracts before anyone called it Web3. This was 2015 and 2016. Few funds were investing in crypto. He launched Innovating Capital to be one that did.

The firm invests in cybersecurity, enterprise infrastructure, and Web3, and it stays at the protocol level. No dApps, no Layer 3s. It runs validators for the networks it backs and votes in their on-chain governance. "We really take more of a technical point of view in each of these sectors that we focus on," Georgiades said.

Solana came out of that discipline. The firm had been studying verifiable delay functions, the cryptographic scheme at the core of Solana's design, and took most of its position through secondary sales years before the network became a household name. Injective came from closer to home. Its founder, Eric Chen, worked at Innovating Capital before spinning out to build it. Georgiades told Adam Mendler last year that he invested early in Cardano as well, and he has discussed the Solana ecosystem's resurgence on CoinDesk.

XRP is another matter. His objection is not price or tokenomics. It is governance. The XRP Ledger validates transactions through a unique node list of pre-approved validators, and Ripple curates the default list that most operators use. No on-chain mechanism exists to change it. "You basically have a scenario where you might have a fully captured network overnight," he said.

A government holding a strategic reserve of XRP could demand control over validator operations, and the ledger's architecture would make that demand easy to meet. Resisting it would mean a fork, fragmented trust, and degraded performance. He believes holders have not priced that in.

Meme coins bother him less. He does not trade them, and neither does the firm, but he sees them as an on-ramp to a market that is otherwise hard to enter. His worry is borrowed credibility. When presidents and celebrities launch tokens, they pull in buyers who do not understand what they are holding. Meme coins, he warned, are "likely zero-sum or potentially negative sum" once fees and opportunity cost are counted.

He has been early on artificial intelligence twice. At First Round nearly a decade ago, he evaluated AI chatbots and passed because the infrastructure was not ready. Now he sees the technology as the accelerant for everything the firm backs, auditing smart contracts, catching vulnerabilities before they become exploits, running agentic networks on-chain. "AI is an enabler," he said. He has made the same case in interviews as co-founder of Pastel Network, and he wrote about DeFi, blockchain, and cybersecurity as a Forbes Finance Council member.

Asked what repeat winners have in common, he did not say vision or genius. He said the best founders know what they do not know, admit it out loud, and delegate with full trust. The ones who fail believe they are the smartest person in the room. He was one of them once, for nine months.

Every CEO.com Podcast episode ends with the same question, built on the belief that the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes. Who gave Georgiades a chance? His mother. He was in middle school, reading about Warren Buffett, when she told him that becoming Buffett meant an Ivy League school and everything that led to one. She was raising him alone. For the next four or five years, she kept a binder that organized his academics, extracurriculars, and charity work toward that goal.

"It was a lot of time and effort that she put into investing in me," he said.

00:00:00 Introduction to Anthony Georgiades
00:00:40 Anthony's Journey to Innovating Capital
00:04:06 The Current State of Web3
00:06:12 The Impact of Meme Coins
00:09:42 Success Stories: Solana and Injective Protocol
00:12:34 Thoughts on XRP's Governance Risks
00:17:23 A Day in the Life of Anthony
00:18:41 The Role of AI in Web3
00:22:17 Traits of Successful Founders
00:24:56 Who Gave Anthony a Chance

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Give<00:03:56.519> us<00:03:56.680> a<00:03:56.728> sense<00:03:57.065> for<00:03:57.145> the<00:03:57.225> state<00:03:57.546> of<00:03:57.626> Web3<00:03:58.188> right<00:03:58.413> now,<00:03:58.509> because<00:03:58.750> you've<00:03:59.151> been<00:03:59.392> through<00:03:59.536> it<00:03:59.696> from<00:03:59.953> the<00:04:00.114> beginning<00:04:00.579> when<00:04:00.675> no<00:04:00.756> one<00:04:00.900> was<00:04:00.996> paying<00:04:01.173> attention<00:04:01.510> to<00:04:01.558> it,<00:04:01.638> to<00:04:01.783> like<00:04:01.959> the<00:04:02.280> boom,<00:04:03.307> which<00:04:03.403> is<00:04:03.484> probably<00:04:03.772> like<00:04:03.901> early<00:04:04.190> COVID<00:04:04.527> days,<00:04:05.153> right?

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And<00:04:05.875> now<00:04:06.212> here<00:04:06.436> we<00:04:06.613> are<00:04:07.961> in<00:04:08.057> 2025,<00:04:09.742> and<00:04:09.854> I'm<00:04:10.047> actually<00:04:10.240> not<00:04:10.448> entirely<00:04:10.785> sure<00:04:11.026> what<00:04:11.186> the<00:04:11.267> state<00:04:11.523> of<00:04:11.652> Web3<00:04:12.534> is<00:04:12.775> right<00:04:12.935> now.

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It'd<00:04:13.192> be<00:04:13.272> interesting<00:04:13.674> to<00:04:13.754> hear<00:04:13.914> it<00:04:14.059> from<00:04:14.171> you.

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It<00:04:14.941> is<00:04:15.102> confusing,<00:04:16.001> that<00:04:16.161> is<00:04:16.305> for<00:04:16.402> sure.

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It's—<00:04:19.033> if<00:04:19.210> you<00:04:19.306> had<00:04:19.451> asked<00:04:19.756> me<00:04:20.478> 5,<00:04:20.686> 6,<00:04:20.975> 10<00:04:21.216> years<00:04:21.457> ago,<00:04:21.842> you<00:04:21.922> know,<00:04:22.099> even<00:04:22.644> what<00:04:23.223> I<00:04:23.386> thought<00:04:23.614> the<00:04:23.696> world<00:04:23.956> of<00:04:24.038> Web3<00:04:24.510> would<00:04:24.835> look<00:04:25.161> like<00:04:25.649> when<00:04:25.991> there<00:04:26.236> is<00:04:26.545> institutional<00:04:27.278> adoption,<00:04:28.173> when<00:04:28.417> there<00:04:28.515> are<00:04:28.906> ETFs,<00:04:29.850> when<00:04:29.947> there's<00:04:30.696> talks<00:04:31.168> of<00:04:31.282> a<00:04:31.493> strategic<00:04:32.063> reserve<00:04:32.551> actually<00:04:33.039> happening,<00:04:35.833> I<00:04:35.849> would<00:04:35.947> have<00:04:36.093> thought<00:04:36.320> there'd<00:04:36.417> be<00:04:36.563> much<00:04:36.725> more<00:04:37.293> clarity<00:04:38.038> in<00:04:38.103> the<00:04:38.168> market.

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I<00:04:38.687> thought<00:04:39.011> the<00:04:39.076> market<00:04:39.482> would<00:04:39.579> have<00:04:39.725> been<00:04:39.903> much<00:04:40.455> more<00:04:42.076> well-defined<00:04:43.227> across<00:04:44.103> protocols,<00:04:45.920> scaling<00:04:46.310> solutions,<00:04:47.121> whatever<00:04:47.510> it<00:04:47.543> might<00:04:47.851> be.

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We<00:04:48.808> have<00:04:48.921> a<00:04:49.067> very<00:04:49.943> clear-cut<00:04:50.527> view<00:04:50.690> of<00:04:50.917> what<00:04:51.095> we<00:04:51.193> think<00:04:51.501> the<00:04:51.776> multichain<00:04:52.417> future<00:04:52.835> looks<00:04:53.075> like.

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We're<00:04:54.022> very<00:04:54.279> far<00:04:54.584> from<00:04:54.744> that<00:04:54.921> now.

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And<00:04:56.429> where<00:04:56.606> I<00:04:56.702> see<00:04:57.087> a<00:04:57.248> lot<00:04:57.488> of<00:04:57.649> interest<00:04:58.050> and<00:04:58.194> activity<00:04:58.772> today,<00:04:59.895> it<00:04:59.976> almost<00:05:00.377> feels<00:05:02.062> like<00:05:02.302> we've<00:05:02.463> taken<00:05:02.720> a<00:05:02.784> few<00:05:03.008> steps<00:05:03.345> back,<00:05:03.987> whether<00:05:04.228> that's<00:05:04.533> meme<00:05:04.854> coins,<00:05:05.993> whether<00:05:06.250> that's<00:05:06.876> a<00:05:06.956> lot<00:05:07.181> of<00:05:07.822> speculation<00:05:09.427> on<00:05:10.631> leveraged<00:05:10.968> assets,<00:05:12.075> derivatives,<00:05:12.813> whatever<00:05:13.134> it<00:05:13.214> might<00:05:13.455> be.

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And<00:05:14.257> there's<00:05:14.482> a<00:05:14.562> bit<00:05:14.658> of<00:05:14.739> a<00:05:14.819> disconnect<00:05:15.445> from<00:05:15.942> where<00:05:16.087> the<00:05:16.183> fundamental<00:05:16.745> value<00:05:17.210> lies.

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And<00:05:18.734> so<00:05:19.697> The<00:05:20.259> current<00:05:20.500> state<00:05:20.757> of<00:05:20.821> the<00:05:20.853> market<00:05:21.463> is<00:05:21.897> certainly<00:05:22.362> confusing.

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There<00:05:23.309> are<00:05:23.967> obviously<00:05:24.208> a<00:05:24.353> lot<00:05:24.529> of<00:05:24.674> projects<00:05:25.268> and<00:05:25.396> protocols<00:05:25.910> that<00:05:26.054> are<00:05:26.135> continuing<00:05:26.777> to<00:05:27.419> develop<00:05:27.964> and<00:05:29.265> make<00:05:29.506> tremendous<00:05:30.067> innovation,<00:05:31.512> building<00:05:31.833> both<00:05:32.074> vertically<00:05:32.700> and<00:05:32.861> horizontally<00:05:33.663> in<00:05:33.759> terms<00:05:34.145> of<00:05:35.509> multi-chain<00:05:36.167> interoperability,<00:05:37.227> scaling,<00:05:38.238> onboarding<00:05:38.720> the<00:05:38.752> next<00:05:39.699> 100<00:05:40.245> million<00:05:40.646> users<00:05:41.288> to<00:05:41.465> the<00:05:41.545> Web3<00:05:42.011> ecosystem.

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But<00:05:43.552> the<00:05:43.632> focus<00:05:44.113> has<00:05:44.418> largely<00:05:44.820> been<00:05:44.932> around<00:05:45.879> liquidity.

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And<00:05:47.822> finding<00:05:48.352> the<00:05:48.448> next<00:05:49.716> outsized<00:05:50.455> market<00:05:50.760> return.

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Um,<00:05:52.221> and<00:05:52.317> so<00:05:53.040> I<00:05:53.104> think<00:05:53.200> there's<00:05:53.345> a<00:05:53.425> bit<00:05:53.522> of<00:05:53.666> disconnect<00:05:54.148> with<00:05:54.292> regards<00:05:54.629> to<00:05:54.790> where<00:05:54.951> the<00:05:55.031> focus<00:05:55.657> should<00:05:55.914> be<00:05:56.074> and<00:05:56.219> where<00:05:56.315> it<00:05:56.460> actually<00:05:56.957> is.

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And<00:05:58.643> I<00:05:58.724> think<00:05:58.884> that<00:05:59.205> we've<00:05:59.446> potentially,<00:06:00.233> you<00:06:00.265> know,<00:06:00.891> gone<00:06:01.132> a<00:06:01.212> little<00:06:01.453> too<00:06:01.838> quick<00:06:02.336> with<00:06:02.561> regards<00:06:03.219> to<00:06:03.556> some<00:06:03.797> of<00:06:03.958> the<00:06:04.809> legislative<00:06:05.451> measures<00:06:06.575> that<00:06:06.816> have,<00:06:07.153> you<00:06:07.313> know,<00:06:07.554> put<00:06:08.036> the<00:06:08.919> magnifying<00:06:09.481> glass<00:06:10.364> on<00:06:10.428> the<00:06:10.508> wrong<00:06:10.781> side<00:06:11.022> of<00:06:11.102> the<00:06:11.231> market,<00:06:11.488> if<00:06:11.648> that<00:06:11.745> makes<00:06:12.082> sense.

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Yeah,<00:06:13.028> for<00:06:13.253> sure.

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It's<00:06:13.894> really—<00:06:14.150> I<00:06:14.359> mean,<00:06:14.519> what<00:06:14.615> the<00:06:14.760> hell<00:06:14.824> is<00:06:14.936> going<00:06:15.160> on<00:06:15.401> with<00:06:15.497> meme<00:06:15.802> coins?

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I<00:06:16.475> don't<00:06:16.619> get<00:06:16.779> it.

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And<00:06:17.725> it<00:06:18.062> seems<00:06:18.302> like<00:06:18.447> there's<00:06:18.623> a<00:06:18.639> new<00:06:18.927> one<00:06:19.104> like<00:06:19.328> every<00:06:20.787> 2,<00:06:21.027> 3<00:06:21.268> weeks<00:06:22.695> and<00:06:23.272> they're<00:06:23.432> quite<00:06:23.688> successful<00:06:24.394> for,<00:06:24.859> you<00:06:24.891> know,<00:06:25.035> a<00:06:25.115> few<00:06:25.275> people<00:06:25.676> and<00:06:25.836> they're<00:06:26.221> quite<00:06:26.462> devastating<00:06:26.959> for<00:06:27.119> a<00:06:27.135> lot<00:06:27.295> of<00:06:27.359> people.

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How<00:06:27.840> is<00:06:27.920> that<00:06:28.065> even<00:06:28.497> a<00:06:28.658> thing?

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Pre-mine,<00:06:30.245> really,<00:06:30.485> right?

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You<00:06:30.886> know,<00:06:31.046> so<00:06:32.248> meme<00:06:32.489> coins,<00:06:33.771> there's,<00:06:35.038> you<00:06:35.118> know,<00:06:35.679> the<00:06:35.775> good<00:06:35.935> and<00:06:36.000> the<00:06:36.096> bad<00:06:36.320> with<00:06:36.400> them.

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And<00:06:37.923> there<00:06:38.099> are<00:06:38.821> the<00:06:39.542> crypto<00:06:39.847> advocates<00:06:40.344> that<00:06:40.504> view<00:06:40.632> meme<00:06:40.905> coins<00:06:41.610> as<00:06:42.572> obviously<00:06:43.133> the<00:06:43.550> scum<00:06:43.870> of<00:06:44.015> the<00:06:44.095> market.

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You<00:06:44.752> know,<00:06:44.976> basically<00:06:46.114> nothing,<00:06:46.675> no<00:06:46.835> fundamentals,<00:06:47.957> no<00:06:48.117> value.

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Um,<00:06:49.623> they're<00:06:50.104> catastrophic<00:06:51.001> because<00:06:51.642> users<00:06:52.123> that<00:06:52.363> enter<00:06:52.540> the<00:06:52.620> market<00:06:53.581> to<00:06:53.806> acquire<00:06:54.206> a<00:06:54.270> meme<00:06:54.511> coin,<00:06:55.392> they're<00:06:55.488> either<00:06:55.648> going<00:06:55.728> to<00:06:55.809> lose<00:06:56.113> all<00:06:56.193> their<00:06:56.273> money<00:06:56.834> and<00:06:57.091> never<00:06:57.331> come<00:06:57.475> back<00:06:57.651> to<00:06:57.715> the<00:06:57.796> market<00:06:58.052> again,<00:06:59.078> or<00:06:59.254> they're<00:06:59.398> going<00:06:59.462> to<00:06:59.510> make<00:06:59.799> a<00:06:59.879> quick<00:07:00.135> 10x<00:07:00.616> or<00:07:00.664> whatever<00:07:00.872> it<00:07:00.952> might<00:07:01.241> be,<00:07:01.417> and<00:07:01.497> then<00:07:01.641> they're<00:07:01.738> going<00:07:01.850> to<00:07:01.898> spend<00:07:02.202> the<00:07:02.282> rest<00:07:02.635> of<00:07:02.763> their<00:07:02.923> career<00:07:03.644> or,<00:07:04.045> you<00:07:04.077> know,<00:07:04.702> lifetime<00:07:05.327> in<00:07:05.487> crypto<00:07:05.904> searching<00:07:06.385> for<00:07:06.529> that<00:07:06.705> next<00:07:07.586> outsized<00:07:07.987> performance,<00:07:08.628> which<00:07:08.804> is<00:07:08.932> just<00:07:09.109> not<00:07:09.333> realistic.

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Um,<00:07:11.577> You<00:07:11.689> know,<00:07:11.817> they<00:07:11.849> say<00:07:12.090> that<00:07:12.379> obviously<00:07:12.715> the<00:07:13.437> most<00:07:14.383> patient<00:07:14.720> investors,<00:07:15.618> or<00:07:15.827> the,<00:07:16.083> or<00:07:16.228> the<00:07:16.260> best<00:07:16.484> investors,<00:07:16.965> are<00:07:16.997> the<00:07:17.045> most<00:07:17.270> patient<00:07:17.591> investors,<00:07:18.088> the<00:07:18.232> ones<00:07:18.489> that,<00:07:18.745> you<00:07:19.227> know,<00:07:19.451> can<00:07:19.788> sit<00:07:20.157> 5,<00:07:20.574> 6,<00:07:20.878> 7<00:07:21.135> years<00:07:21.520> and<00:07:21.921> wait<00:07:22.097> for<00:07:22.258> things<00:07:22.482> to<00:07:22.578> happen,<00:07:23.524> um,<00:07:23.781> which<00:07:24.182> is<00:07:24.599> somewhat<00:07:25.160> of<00:07:25.240> an<00:07:25.305> economy<00:07:26.203> if<00:07:26.331> you<00:07:26.363> look<00:07:26.668> at<00:07:27.069> meme<00:07:27.293> coin<00:07:27.470> investors<00:07:28.191> overall.

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On<00:07:29.298> the<00:07:29.378> flip<00:07:29.635> side<00:07:29.875> of<00:07:29.939> that,<00:07:30.741> uh,<00:07:30.982> there<00:07:31.158> is<00:07:31.318> the<00:07:31.415> side<00:07:32.425> of<00:07:32.585> the<00:07:32.666> crypto<00:07:33.066> camp<00:07:33.548> that<00:07:34.590> views<00:07:34.911> meme<00:07:35.151> coins<00:07:35.648> as<00:07:35.889> being<00:07:36.194> fundamental.

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To<00:07:38.134> the<00:07:38.279> longevity<00:07:38.920> of<00:07:39.081> crypto,<00:07:40.124> um,<00:07:41.246> not<00:07:41.407> necessarily<00:07:42.065> with<00:07:42.225> regards<00:07:42.626> to<00:07:42.770> irrational<00:07:43.171> exuberance<00:07:43.765> or<00:07:43.829> speculation,<00:07:44.631> but<00:07:44.776> the<00:07:44.872> fact<00:07:45.193> that<00:07:45.353> it's<00:07:45.497> a<00:07:45.578> very<00:07:46.059> easy<00:07:46.315> and<00:07:46.556> tangible<00:07:47.262> way<00:07:48.096> to<00:07:48.465> onboard<00:07:48.946> users<00:07:49.524> to<00:07:49.780> an<00:07:49.989> asset<00:07:50.230> class<00:07:50.647> or<00:07:50.727> a<00:07:50.871> market<00:07:51.288> that<00:07:51.449> is<00:07:51.930> otherwise<00:07:52.588> extremely<00:07:53.293> challenging<00:07:53.775> and<00:07:53.919> complicated.

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And<00:07:55.379> irrespective<00:07:56.085> if<00:07:56.245> they<00:07:56.405> enter<00:07:56.598> the<00:07:56.662> market<00:07:57.785> getting<00:07:58.090> rugged<00:07:58.812> or,<00:07:59.309> you<00:07:59.549> know,<00:07:59.646> finding<00:08:00.111> the<00:08:00.207> next,<00:08:00.833> you<00:08:00.913> know,<00:08:01.138> gem,<00:08:02.020> um,<00:08:02.437> it<00:08:02.517> doesn't<00:08:02.742> matter<00:08:03.062> because<00:08:03.303> we've<00:08:03.480> captured<00:08:03.881> that<00:08:04.988> customer,<00:08:05.791> and<00:08:06.273> they<00:08:06.594> may<00:08:06.755> or<00:08:06.835> may<00:08:06.916> not<00:08:07.092> go<00:08:07.237> down<00:08:07.397> the<00:08:07.478> rabbit<00:08:07.735> hole,<00:08:07.992> and<00:08:08.120> there's<00:08:08.297> a<00:08:08.361> greater<00:08:08.698> than<00:08:08.859> zero<00:08:09.100> probability<00:08:09.823> that<00:08:10.048> they,<00:08:10.385> you<00:08:10.642> know,<00:08:11.413> will<00:08:11.573> become<00:08:11.846> a<00:08:11.911> lifetime<00:08:12.312> user<00:08:12.617> of<00:08:12.778> crypto.

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Um,<00:08:14.705> you<00:08:14.737> know,<00:08:14.882> where<00:08:15.026> I<00:08:15.139> stand,<00:08:15.589> I'd<00:08:15.701> say<00:08:15.781> I'm<00:08:16.006> probably<00:08:16.392> a<00:08:16.424> little<00:08:16.873> bit,<00:08:17.596> um,<00:08:18.094> you<00:08:18.174> know,<00:08:18.255> more<00:08:18.640> in<00:08:18.737> the<00:08:19.684> latter<00:08:20.021> camp,<00:08:20.808> um,<00:08:21.226> with<00:08:21.451> regards<00:08:21.868> to<00:08:22.093> meme<00:08:22.334> coins.

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You<00:08:22.688> know,<00:08:22.832> personally,<00:08:23.218> I<00:08:23.234> don't<00:08:23.394> speculate<00:08:23.876> or<00:08:23.956> trade<00:08:24.261> on<00:08:24.358> meme<00:08:24.518> coins,<00:08:25.546> uh,<00:08:25.723> nor<00:08:25.884> does<00:08:26.108> the<00:08:26.205> firm,<00:08:27.072> um,<00:08:27.409> but<00:08:27.875> I<00:08:27.891> don't<00:08:28.116> necessarily<00:08:28.839> have<00:08:29.337> an<00:08:29.481> issue<00:08:29.819> with<00:08:29.979> them<00:08:30.766> And,<00:08:31.583> you<00:08:31.615> know,<00:08:31.984> they're<00:08:32.128> no<00:08:32.288> worse<00:08:32.625> than<00:08:33.346> ICOs<00:08:33.891> were,<00:08:34.148> right?

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At<00:08:34.789> least<00:08:35.013> with<00:08:35.173> meme<00:08:35.350> coins,<00:08:35.654> you<00:08:35.686> know<00:08:35.783> what<00:08:35.991> you<00:08:36.135> get,<00:08:36.696> and<00:08:36.792> they're<00:08:37.017> marketing<00:08:37.433> and<00:08:37.514> advertising<00:08:38.058> that.

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And<00:08:38.491> it's,<00:08:38.635> you<00:08:38.732> know,<00:08:38.876> a<00:08:38.956> buyer<00:08:39.196> beware<00:08:40.495> symbol.

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The<00:08:41.360> one<00:08:41.537> thing<00:08:41.681> that<00:08:41.825> obviously<00:08:42.402> gets<00:08:42.642> me<00:08:42.723> a<00:08:42.739> little<00:08:43.107> nervous<00:08:43.829> has<00:08:44.165> been<00:08:44.406> some<00:08:44.710> of<00:08:44.870> the<00:08:45.688> predominant<00:08:46.313> players<00:08:46.970> that<00:08:47.146> have<00:08:47.355> come<00:08:47.515> out<00:08:47.611> recently,<00:08:48.493> you<00:08:48.525> know,<00:08:48.733> obviously<00:08:49.198> whether<00:08:49.454> that's<00:08:50.416> POTUS<00:08:50.961> or<00:08:51.362> whoever<00:08:51.618> it<00:08:51.666> might<00:08:51.923> be,<00:08:53.606> pushing<00:08:53.878> out<00:08:54.006> their<00:08:54.102> own<00:08:54.247> meme<00:08:54.423> coins<00:08:55.769> and<00:08:56.410> leveraging<00:08:56.811> their,<00:08:57.212> you<00:08:57.244> know,<00:08:57.388> really<00:08:57.693> existing<00:08:58.574> credibility<00:09:00.274> to<00:09:01.221> potentially<00:09:01.622> entice<00:09:02.039> certain<00:09:02.360> users<00:09:03.403> into<00:09:03.627> the<00:09:03.708> market.

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I<00:09:05.168> think<00:09:05.328> that<00:09:05.874> could<00:09:05.970> potentially<00:09:06.451> be<00:09:06.612> detrimental,<00:09:07.831> especially<00:09:08.297> if<00:09:08.393> it<00:09:08.762> lends<00:09:09.019> credibility<00:09:09.580> to<00:09:10.142> the<00:09:10.222> next<00:09:10.463> wave<00:09:10.719> of<00:09:10.864> celebrities<00:09:11.570> or<00:09:11.602> entertainers<00:09:12.147> doing<00:09:12.388> it<00:09:12.484> as<00:09:12.629> well.

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You<00:09:13.672> know,<00:09:14.378> users<00:09:14.779> need<00:09:14.875> to<00:09:15.019> understand<00:09:15.501> that<00:09:15.822> this<00:09:16.062> is<00:09:16.223> an<00:09:16.463> asset<00:09:16.640> class<00:09:17.105> that<00:09:17.907> is,<00:09:18.469> you<00:09:18.565> know,<00:09:18.966> meme<00:09:19.191> coins<00:09:19.368> particularly<00:09:19.849> are<00:09:21.132> likely<00:09:21.453> zero-sum<00:09:22.272> or<00:09:22.400> potentially<00:09:22.737> negative-sum<00:09:23.379> if<00:09:23.523> you<00:09:23.619> consider<00:09:24.005> fees<00:09:24.341> and<00:09:24.406> opportunity<00:09:24.903> cost<00:09:25.304> of<00:09:25.465> fundamental<00:09:26.491> assets.

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And<00:09:28.112> it's<00:09:28.514> entirely<00:09:29.012> speculative.

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Yeah,<00:09:30.667> yeah,<00:09:30.844> the<00:09:30.924> Trump<00:09:31.149> coin<00:09:31.326> was<00:09:31.486> wild.

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It's<00:09:33.238> wild<00:09:33.415> he<00:09:33.495> did<00:09:33.559> it<00:09:33.607> like<00:09:33.816> the<00:09:33.897> day<00:09:34.138> before<00:09:34.780> he<00:09:35.102> went<00:09:35.262> into<00:09:35.423> office<00:09:35.825> too.

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That<00:09:36.371> whole<00:09:36.532> thing<00:09:36.708> was<00:09:36.869> wild.

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Um,<00:09:38.379> tell<00:09:38.540> us<00:09:38.653> about<00:09:38.813> like<00:09:38.958> some<00:09:39.102> of<00:09:39.183> your<00:09:39.279> big<00:09:39.504> wins<00:09:40.163> at<00:09:41.191> Innovating<00:09:41.529> Capital.

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Like,<00:09:42.557> I<00:09:42.573> mean,<00:09:42.798> you<00:09:43.280> were<00:09:43.521> doing<00:09:43.778> this,<00:09:44.581> like<00:09:44.742> you<00:09:44.839> mentioned<00:09:45.144> before,<00:09:45.465> like<00:09:45.706> when<00:09:45.867> not<00:09:46.108> a<00:09:46.124> lot<00:09:46.429> of<00:09:46.574> VC<00:09:46.911> funds<00:09:47.233> were<00:09:47.393> doing<00:09:47.715> this.

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So<00:09:48.181> you<00:09:48.277> must<00:09:48.534> have,<00:09:48.839> you<00:09:49.000> know,<00:09:49.868> um,<00:09:50.269> had<00:09:50.446> a<00:09:50.526> couple<00:09:50.784> of<00:09:50.928> good<00:09:51.185> swings<00:09:51.732> there.

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Yeah,<00:09:52.599> we<00:09:52.631> definitely<00:09:53.033> did.

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Um,<00:09:54.190> You<00:09:54.222> know,<00:09:54.302> Solana<00:09:54.639> was<00:09:54.800> definitely<00:09:55.169> one<00:09:55.330> of<00:09:55.426> our<00:09:55.571> earliest<00:09:55.988> plays.

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I<00:09:57.594> reached<00:09:57.899> out<00:09:57.995> to<00:09:58.092> those<00:09:58.397> guys.

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We<00:09:59.023> ended<00:09:59.184> up<00:09:59.441> basically<00:10:00.324> taking<00:10:00.629> the<00:10:00.950> majority<00:10:01.223> of<00:10:01.303> our<00:10:01.448> position<00:10:03.230> via<00:10:04.643> a<00:10:04.724> secondary<00:10:05.222> sale<00:10:06.410> years<00:10:06.667> and<00:10:06.747> years<00:10:06.988> ago.

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And<00:10:07.951> this<00:10:08.112> is<00:10:08.256> one<00:10:08.337> that<00:10:08.433> kind<00:10:08.562> of<00:10:08.594> goes<00:10:08.754> back<00:10:08.995> to<00:10:09.477> the<00:10:09.942> kind<00:10:10.039> of<00:10:10.119> technical<00:10:10.537> thesis<00:10:11.163> that<00:10:11.323> we<00:10:11.725> employ.

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We<00:10:13.395> were<00:10:13.668> spending<00:10:13.973> a<00:10:14.037> lot<00:10:14.230> of<00:10:14.326> time<00:10:14.487> looking<00:10:14.840> at<00:10:15.338> VDFs,<00:10:16.141> verifiable<00:10:16.703> delay<00:10:16.879> functions,<00:10:17.811> as<00:10:18.309> a<00:10:18.405> new<00:10:18.871> type<00:10:19.208> of<00:10:19.352> cryptographic<00:10:19.930> scheme<00:10:21.022> that<00:10:21.344> could<00:10:21.890> really<00:10:22.484> in<00:10:22.805> the<00:10:22.869> world<00:10:23.046> of<00:10:23.174> Web3<00:10:23.608> or<00:10:23.752> cybersecurity<00:10:24.571> or<00:10:24.732> traditional<00:10:25.213> Web2<00:10:25.615> infrastructure<00:10:27.301> solve<00:10:27.541> upon<00:10:27.798> a<00:10:27.895> lot<00:10:28.023> of<00:10:28.103> problems,<00:10:29.051> namely<00:10:29.549> with<00:10:29.709> regards<00:10:30.191> to<00:10:30.576> crypto<00:10:30.881> in<00:10:31.475> the<00:10:31.556> context<00:10:32.053> of<00:10:32.198> DEXs,<00:10:33.322> limiting<00:10:34.028> or<00:10:34.349> eliminating<00:10:35.811> a<00:10:35.875> lot<00:10:35.987> of<00:10:36.051> the<00:10:36.132> issues<00:10:36.437> with<00:10:36.597> front<00:10:36.854> running,<00:10:37.834> spam<00:10:38.219> risks,<00:10:38.701> execution<00:10:39.279> risks,<00:10:39.664> et<00:10:39.761> cetera.

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And<00:10:41.029> then<00:10:41.173> in<00:10:41.254> the<00:10:41.334> world<00:10:41.527> of<00:10:41.687> generalized<00:10:42.297> L1s,<00:10:42.731> solving<00:10:43.598> upon<00:10:43.999> a<00:10:44.080> lot<00:10:44.240> of<00:10:44.321> the<00:10:44.417> scalability<00:10:45.750> challenges,<00:10:46.408> particularly<00:10:47.034> for<00:10:47.598> particularly<00:10:48.004> for<00:10:48.183> financial<00:10:48.572> applications,<00:10:49.968> which<00:10:50.196> is<00:10:50.293> a<00:10:50.358> huge<00:10:50.618> crux<00:10:51.023> in<00:10:51.105> terms<00:10:51.364> of<00:10:51.494> the<00:10:51.575> underlying<00:10:51.981> primitive<00:10:52.955> of<00:10:53.686> Solana<00:10:54.027> where<00:10:54.173> it<00:10:54.254> stands<00:10:54.514> today.

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So<00:10:55.632> we<00:10:55.712> came<00:10:55.889> across<00:10:56.596> that<00:10:56.837> team<00:10:58.043> just<00:10:58.268> with<00:10:58.429> regards<00:10:58.846> to<00:10:58.943> the<00:10:59.007> technical<00:10:59.473> approach<00:10:59.730> they<00:10:59.875> were<00:10:59.971> taking,<00:11:01.177> made<00:11:01.739> an<00:11:01.916> early<00:11:02.141> investment<00:11:02.607> in<00:11:02.688> them,<00:11:03.250> and<00:11:03.523> it's<00:11:03.829> obviously<00:11:04.214> proven<00:11:04.456> to<00:11:04.552> be—<00:11:04.697> Yeah,<00:11:06.323> that's<00:11:06.661> a<00:11:06.790> good<00:11:06.951> one.

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Well<00:11:07.611> done.

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Injective<00:11:10.590> Protocol<00:11:10.960> is<00:11:11.073> another<00:11:11.314> one.

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Love<00:11:11.781> those<00:11:12.023> guys.

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Still<00:11:13.444> large<00:11:13.706> holders<00:11:14.034> there.

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Eric<00:11:14.771> Chen<00:11:15.017> actually<00:11:15.575> spent<00:11:15.821> some<00:11:15.985> time<00:11:16.165> working<00:11:16.558> at<00:11:16.657> Innovating<00:11:16.984> Capital.

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Before<00:11:18.154> he<00:11:18.251> spun<00:11:18.540> out<00:11:18.652> and<00:11:18.781> started<00:11:19.118> that.

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Love<00:11:20.066> what<00:11:20.163> they've<00:11:20.307> been<00:11:20.404> doing.

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That<00:11:21.110> really<00:11:21.351> ties<00:11:21.609> into<00:11:21.850> our<00:11:21.994> thesis<00:11:22.556> of,<00:11:23.681> uh,<00:11:23.954> the<00:11:24.067> multi-chain<00:11:24.645> world,<00:11:24.982> but<00:11:25.143> really<00:11:25.368> having<00:11:25.689> application-specific<00:11:26.894> L1s.

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You<00:11:27.890> know,<00:11:28.019> there's<00:11:28.180> not<00:11:28.340> going<00:11:28.453> to<00:11:28.533> necessarily<00:11:29.240> be<00:11:29.417> hundreds<00:11:30.027> of<00:11:30.831> general-purpose<00:11:31.554> L1s<00:11:32.116> that<00:11:32.855> each<00:11:33.000> have<00:11:33.112> their<00:11:33.257> own<00:11:33.401> use<00:11:33.578> cases<00:11:33.980> per<00:11:34.156> se.

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There's<00:11:35.345> probably<00:11:35.811> going<00:11:36.052> to<00:11:36.149> be<00:11:36.309> a<00:11:36.534> handful<00:11:37.273> that,<00:11:37.594> you<00:11:37.675> know,<00:11:37.819> have<00:11:38.141> their<00:11:38.237> different<00:11:38.542> functions<00:11:38.960> and<00:11:39.105> use<00:11:39.346> cases,<00:11:40.551> um,<00:11:40.872> you<00:11:41.225> know,<00:11:41.370> whether<00:11:41.611> that's<00:11:42.414> Ethereum<00:11:43.041> and<00:11:43.378> figuring<00:11:43.844> out<00:11:44.743> vertical<00:11:45.047> scalability<00:11:45.785> via<00:11:47.052> a<00:11:47.084> variety<00:11:47.549> of<00:11:47.693> L2s<00:11:48.094> and<00:11:48.174> L3s,<00:11:49.554> whether<00:11:49.730> that's<00:11:49.954> Solana,<00:11:50.516> who<00:11:51.061> has<00:11:52.039> effectively<00:11:52.456> solved<00:11:52.905> that<00:11:53.017> it<00:11:53.258> doesn't<00:11:53.627> have<00:11:54.124> necessarily<00:11:54.685> those<00:11:54.926> vertical<00:11:55.230> scaling<00:11:56.529> needs,<00:11:57.090> but,<00:11:57.475> you<00:11:57.571> know,<00:11:57.892> interchain<00:11:58.293> solutions<00:11:59.015> are<00:11:59.175> definitely<00:11:59.576> practical.

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In<00:12:01.644> any<00:12:01.741> event,<00:12:02.687> these<00:12:03.248> L1s<00:12:03.681> are<00:12:03.745> going<00:12:03.825> to<00:12:03.889> require<00:12:04.627> application-specific<00:12:05.894> networks<00:12:06.471> that<00:12:06.567> provide<00:12:07.177> particularly<00:12:07.995> provisioned<00:12:08.636> resources,<00:12:09.518> whether<00:12:09.694> that's<00:12:10.544> compute,<00:12:11.122> storage,<00:12:12.309> data<00:12:12.485> aggregation,<00:12:13.528> whatever<00:12:13.849> it<00:12:13.881> might<00:12:14.090> be.

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In<00:12:14.812> the<00:12:14.892> case<00:12:15.133> of<00:12:15.229> Injective,<00:12:15.999> you<00:12:16.031> know,<00:12:16.320> very<00:12:16.577> well-defined<00:12:17.299> L1<00:12:17.764> focused<00:12:18.165> on<00:12:18.262> financial<00:12:18.679> primitives.

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Um,<00:12:20.251> and<00:12:20.348> so<00:12:21.230> love<00:12:21.391> what<00:12:21.535> those—<00:12:21.952> what<00:12:22.032> that<00:12:22.193> team<00:12:22.353> has<00:12:22.514> done<00:12:22.770> and<00:12:22.915> what<00:12:23.059> they're<00:12:23.156> continuing<00:12:23.541> to<00:12:23.637> doing<00:12:23.797> today.

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What<00:12:24.760> do<00:12:24.824> you<00:12:24.905> think<00:12:25.097> of<00:12:25.177> XRP?

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Just<00:12:26.108> out<00:12:26.188> of<00:12:26.268> curiosity,<00:12:26.862> I'm<00:12:26.942> not<00:12:27.151> sure<00:12:27.311> if<00:12:27.392> you<00:12:27.648> invested<00:12:28.130> in<00:12:28.210> them<00:12:28.386> or<00:12:28.755> not,<00:12:29.012> but<00:12:29.173> it's—<00:12:29.798> that's<00:12:30.151> an<00:12:30.280> interesting<00:12:30.841> one<00:12:31.098> that<00:12:31.258> is,<00:12:31.644> you<00:12:31.676> know,<00:12:31.964> obviously<00:12:32.382> seen<00:12:32.767> a<00:12:32.783> lot<00:12:32.943> of<00:12:33.023> momentum<00:12:33.505> over<00:12:33.649> the<00:12:33.746> past<00:12:34.050> couple<00:12:34.259> months.

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Yeah,<00:12:35.029> so<00:12:35.174> it's<00:12:35.334> funny,<00:12:35.591> I<00:12:35.671> was<00:12:35.896> on<00:12:36.056> a,<00:12:36.216> uh,<00:12:36.730> I<00:12:36.794> think<00:12:37.019> Yahoo<00:12:37.436> News<00:12:37.773> or<00:12:37.837> something<00:12:38.094> like<00:12:38.302> that<00:12:38.495> a<00:12:38.543> few<00:12:38.720> weeks<00:12:38.976> ago<00:12:40.229> and,<00:12:40.469> uh,<00:12:40.871> was<00:12:41.031> talking<00:12:41.610> through,<00:12:42.316> um,<00:12:42.894> XRP.

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And<00:12:44.259> I<00:12:44.340> think<00:12:44.645> it<00:12:45.062> got<00:12:45.303> reposted<00:12:46.170> as,<00:12:46.668> you<00:12:46.748> know,<00:12:47.246> me<00:12:48.033> predicting<00:12:48.451> it's<00:12:48.595> going<00:12:48.836> to<00:12:48.932> zero,<00:12:49.318> which<00:12:49.559> by<00:12:49.719> no<00:12:49.880> means,<00:12:50.281> you<00:12:50.362> know,<00:12:50.683> did<00:12:50.908> I,<00:12:51.550> you<00:12:51.582> know,<00:12:51.727> say<00:12:51.968> that<00:12:52.112> that<00:12:52.273> would<00:12:52.369> be<00:12:52.465> the<00:12:52.610> case.

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But,<00:12:53.879> um,<00:12:54.200> definitely<00:12:54.537> got<00:12:54.842> a<00:12:55.500> little<00:12:55.741> bit<00:12:55.966> more<00:12:56.143> publicity<00:12:56.785> with<00:12:56.962> regards<00:12:57.508> to,<00:12:57.572> you<00:12:58.295> know,<00:12:58.552> the<00:12:59.274> XRP<00:12:59.820> Army,<00:13:00.158> with<00:13:00.382> regards<00:13:00.800> to,<00:13:00.880> you<00:13:01.217> know,<00:13:01.362> what<00:13:01.506> I<00:13:01.523> was<00:13:01.683> saying<00:13:02.566> that<00:13:02.711> I<00:13:02.727> think<00:13:02.904> was<00:13:03.048> taken<00:13:03.353> out<00:13:03.434> of<00:13:03.594> context.

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Um,<00:13:05.072> so<00:13:05.296> definitely<00:13:05.682> would<00:13:05.842> love<00:13:06.003> to,<00:13:06.340> you<00:13:06.420> know,<00:13:06.823> use<00:13:06.985> this<00:13:07.130> time<00:13:07.406> to<00:13:08.037> give<00:13:08.199> you<00:13:08.263> my<00:13:08.749> true<00:13:09.008> thoughts<00:13:09.477> on<00:13:09.558> XRP.

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XRP<00:13:12.488> itself,<00:13:13.540> I<00:13:13.686> view<00:13:13.864> it<00:13:13.945> as<00:13:14.107> no<00:13:14.350> different<00:13:14.754> than<00:13:15.305> a<00:13:15.370> variety<00:13:16.192> of<00:13:17.642> L1s<00:13:18.448> out<00:13:18.626> there<00:13:18.948> that<00:13:19.593> have<00:13:19.754> come<00:13:19.915> to<00:13:20.060> market,<00:13:20.383> many<00:13:20.560> of<00:13:20.624> which<00:13:20.802> we've<00:13:20.979> invested<00:13:21.446> in<00:13:21.527> directly,<00:13:23.150> that<00:13:23.246> have<00:13:23.650> potentially<00:13:24.230> had<00:13:24.650> a<00:13:24.795> disequilibrium<00:13:25.747> with<00:13:25.924> regards<00:13:26.408> to<00:13:26.876> token<00:13:27.214> supply<00:13:27.779> and<00:13:28.263> tokenomics,<00:13:29.311> certain<00:13:29.795> level<00:13:30.118> of<00:13:30.279> pre-mines,<00:13:30.844> etc.

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But<00:13:33.062> I<00:13:33.143> do<00:13:33.528> view<00:13:33.864> XRP<00:13:34.345> having<00:13:35.067> a<00:13:35.211> particular<00:13:35.789> number<00:13:36.093> of<00:13:37.553> inherent<00:13:37.873> flaws<00:13:38.194> that<00:13:38.338> I<00:13:38.387> don't<00:13:38.595> think<00:13:38.836> people<00:13:39.220> have<00:13:39.718> fully<00:13:40.022> rationalized,<00:13:41.000> whether<00:13:41.161> that's<00:13:41.401> token<00:13:41.722> supply<00:13:42.043> concentration,<00:13:43.246> whether<00:13:43.470> that's<00:13:43.727> chain<00:13:44.112> sovereignty,<00:13:44.689> et<00:13:44.849> cetera.

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The<00:13:46.212> biggest<00:13:46.533> issue<00:13:46.758> I<00:13:46.790> see<00:13:47.094> with<00:13:47.255> XRP,<00:13:49.179> and<00:13:49.323> it's<00:13:49.644> really<00:13:49.901> important,<00:13:50.879> especially<00:13:51.488> with<00:13:51.809> where<00:13:52.066> it's<00:13:53.108> moving<00:13:53.429> into<00:13:53.573> the<00:13:53.653> market,<00:13:54.150> and<00:13:54.247> I<00:13:54.295> actually<00:13:54.631> view<00:13:54.968> this<00:13:55.674> potential<00:13:56.139> weakness<00:13:56.540> as<00:13:56.700> XRP<00:13:57.277> as<00:13:58.464> honestly<00:14:00.567> one<00:14:00.744> of<00:14:00.904> the<00:14:01.531> potential<00:14:01.932> downfalls<00:14:02.880> of<00:14:02.960> the<00:14:03.057> cryptocurrency<00:14:03.860> over<00:14:04.020> time<00:14:04.342> that<00:14:04.823> I<00:14:04.904> think<00:14:05.209> that<00:14:05.787> users<00:14:06.253> should<00:14:06.349> be<00:14:06.494> mindful<00:14:06.911> of<00:14:08.180> is<00:14:08.357> really<00:14:09.224> the<00:14:09.401> Ledger's<00:14:10.911> current<00:14:11.553> node<00:14:11.826> governance<00:14:12.613> mechanics,<00:14:13.577> which<00:14:13.882> allow<00:14:14.139> for<00:14:14.300> it<00:14:14.444> to<00:14:14.541> be<00:14:14.846> really<00:14:15.328> captured<00:14:16.789> overnight.

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And<00:14:18.942> they<00:14:19.038> talk<00:14:19.279> about<00:14:19.456> it<00:14:19.520> being<00:14:19.777> a<00:14:19.841> strategic<00:14:20.387> reserve.

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And<00:14:21.367> I<00:14:21.463> think<00:14:21.752> honestly,<00:14:22.170> from<00:14:22.973> POTUS's<00:14:23.439> perspective,<00:14:24.113> it's<00:14:24.659> likely<00:14:25.302> requisite<00:14:25.863> for<00:14:26.103> them<00:14:26.809> using<00:14:27.065> it<00:14:27.145> as<00:14:27.305> a<00:14:27.482> strategic<00:14:28.011> reserve.

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So<00:14:29.534> happy<00:14:29.806> to<00:14:29.870> kind<00:14:30.031> of<00:14:30.111> talk<00:14:30.415> through<00:14:30.576> what<00:14:30.688> I<00:14:30.752> mean<00:14:30.976> there,<00:14:31.217> really.

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But<00:14:32.275> XRP<00:14:32.836> operates<00:14:33.381> on<00:14:33.878> a<00:14:34.038> decentralized<00:14:34.824> ledger,<00:14:35.721> XRPL,<00:14:36.747> but<00:14:36.908> it's<00:14:37.084> far<00:14:37.308> from<00:14:37.549> it.

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It<00:14:38.350> uses<00:14:38.831> a<00:14:39.472> unique<00:14:39.873> consensus,<00:14:41.492> RPCA,<00:14:42.775> which<00:14:42.935> relies<00:14:43.480> on<00:14:43.656> a<00:14:43.817> pre-approved<00:14:45.243> list<00:14:45.596> of<00:14:45.660> validators,<00:14:46.846> the<00:14:46.942> unique<00:14:47.263> node<00:14:47.503> list.

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These<00:14:48.626> validators,<00:14:49.267> very<00:14:49.443> similar<00:14:49.780> to<00:14:49.908> well-established<00:14:50.854> POS<00:14:51.575> or<00:14:52.056> DPoS<00:14:52.473> networks,<00:14:53.194> validate<00:14:53.595> transactions,<00:14:54.797> ensure<00:14:55.102> network<00:14:55.374> integrity,<00:14:55.855> et<00:14:55.983> cetera.

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So<00:14:56.705> what's<00:14:56.865> really<00:14:57.041> the<00:14:57.106> problem<00:14:57.442> here,<00:14:58.244> that<00:14:59.608> organization,<00:15:00.329> right,<00:15:00.570> Ripple<00:15:00.875> Labs,<00:15:01.292> and<00:15:01.372> more<00:15:01.596> recently,<00:15:01.917> you<00:15:02.094> know,<00:15:02.254> the<00:15:02.334> foundation<00:15:02.799> itself<00:15:03.617> curates<00:15:04.179> and<00:15:04.339> recommends<00:15:04.900> that<00:15:05.141> default<00:15:06.087> unique<00:15:06.408> node<00:15:06.584> list<00:15:07.370> to<00:15:07.547> participants.

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So<00:15:09.070> in<00:15:09.215> theory,<00:15:09.632> any<00:15:09.792> node<00:15:10.033> operator<00:15:10.434> can<00:15:10.594> choose<00:15:10.899> their<00:15:11.139> own<00:15:11.316> unique<00:15:11.637> node<00:15:11.877> list,<00:15:12.663> but<00:15:13.321> the<00:15:13.401> majority<00:15:13.818> of<00:15:13.946> operators<00:15:14.443> are<00:15:14.524> going<00:15:14.604> to<00:15:14.684> use<00:15:14.909> the<00:15:14.989> default<00:15:15.566> UNL,<00:15:16.192> just<00:15:16.529> Ripple's<00:15:16.994> recommended<00:15:17.491> list.

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And<00:15:18.453> this<00:15:18.694> really<00:15:18.934> creates<00:15:19.271> a<00:15:19.335> de<00:15:19.480> facto<00:15:19.881> reliance<00:15:20.843> on<00:15:21.725> a<00:15:21.998> third-party,<00:15:23.088> you<00:15:23.120> know,<00:15:23.249> centralized<00:15:23.762> organization's<00:15:25.173> discretion<00:15:26.457> over<00:15:26.713> validator<00:15:27.211> selection.

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So<00:15:29.105> more<00:15:29.281> critically,<00:15:29.650> you<00:15:29.682> don't<00:15:29.891> really<00:15:30.067> have<00:15:30.388> any<00:15:30.581> sort<00:15:30.886> of<00:15:31.110> on-chain<00:15:32.811> governance<00:15:33.357> mechanism<00:15:35.042> for<00:15:35.203> updating<00:15:35.540> this<00:15:35.764> list<00:15:36.021> itself.

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And<00:15:37.064> so<00:15:37.224> you<00:15:37.305> have<00:15:37.465> a<00:15:37.481> third-party<00:15:37.931> organization<00:15:38.572> that<00:15:38.653> really<00:15:38.893> acts<00:15:39.150> as<00:15:39.295> a<00:15:39.375> quasi-gatekeeper<00:15:40.418> overall.

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So<00:15:41.718> if<00:15:41.878> the<00:15:42.023> government<00:15:42.504> decided<00:15:42.921> to<00:15:43.066> come<00:15:43.242> in<00:15:43.387> and<00:15:43.467> accumulate<00:15:44.141> a<00:15:44.205> significant<00:15:45.970> reserve<00:15:46.837> denominated<00:15:47.334> in<00:15:47.495> XRP,<00:15:48.859> it's<00:15:49.244> most<00:15:49.645> likely<00:15:49.982> going<00:15:50.078> to<00:15:50.159> say<00:15:50.528> that<00:15:51.089> we<00:15:51.202> need<00:15:51.491> to<00:15:51.651> assert<00:15:51.988> some<00:15:52.149> sort<00:15:52.309> of<00:15:52.453> control<00:15:53.272> over<00:15:53.496> validator<00:15:53.977> operations.

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We<00:15:55.515> need<00:15:55.675> to<00:15:55.755> comply<00:15:56.300> with,<00:15:56.637> you<00:15:56.717> know,<00:15:56.813> FinCEN.

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We<00:15:58.239> need<00:15:58.415> to<00:15:58.800> censor<00:15:59.120> certain<00:15:59.521> requests.

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We<00:16:00.659> need<00:16:00.803> to<00:16:00.963> deny<00:16:01.299> certain<00:16:01.588> transactions.

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You<00:16:02.661> know,<00:16:02.806> we<00:16:02.902> need<00:16:03.046> to<00:16:03.126> ensure<00:16:03.591> that<00:16:03.911> activity<00:16:04.328> happening<00:16:04.793> on<00:16:05.129> the<00:16:05.273> ledger<00:16:06.235> is<00:16:06.395> fully<00:16:06.587> compliant<00:16:06.972> with<00:16:07.052> national<00:16:07.436> laws.

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And<00:16:08.478> it's<00:16:08.574> much<00:16:08.814> easier<00:16:09.055> to<00:16:09.135> do<00:16:09.311> it<00:16:09.536> based<00:16:09.840> off<00:16:10.032> of<00:16:10.193> the<00:16:10.577> reasons<00:16:10.898> I<00:16:10.914> mentioned,<00:16:11.763> you<00:16:11.811> know,<00:16:11.939> curated<00:16:12.564> UML.

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Now,<00:16:13.782> 90%<00:16:14.246> of<00:16:14.423> participants<00:16:15.368> use<00:16:15.528> the<00:16:15.560> de<00:16:15.641> facto<00:16:16.089> UML.

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Third-party<00:16:17.291> organization<00:16:17.868> use,<00:16:18.172> you<00:16:18.204> know,<00:16:18.653> selects<00:16:19.054> that,<00:16:19.807> etc.

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So<00:16:20.672> you<00:16:20.912> basically<00:16:21.249> have<00:16:21.329> a<00:16:21.393> scenario<00:16:21.874> where<00:16:22.099> you<00:16:22.259> might<00:16:22.435> have<00:16:22.612> a<00:16:22.676> fully<00:16:23.061> captured<00:16:23.413> network<00:16:23.958> overnight.

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You<00:16:25.786> might<00:16:25.930> have<00:16:26.042> the<00:16:26.122> inclusion<00:16:26.587> of<00:16:27.084> government<00:16:27.485> control<00:16:27.950> nodes<00:16:28.142> as<00:16:28.286> well<00:16:28.767> to<00:16:28.912> survey,<00:16:29.665> censor,<00:16:30.515> influence<00:16:30.803> transactions,<00:16:31.573> whatever<00:16:31.813> it<00:16:31.861> might<00:16:32.053> be,<00:16:32.855> and<00:16:33.015> force<00:16:33.272> the<00:16:33.352> removal<00:16:33.881> of<00:16:33.977> others.

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And<00:16:34.698> so<00:16:35.644> the<00:16:35.804> problem<00:16:36.125> is<00:16:36.606> if<00:16:37.247> this<00:16:37.407> happens,<00:16:38.369> the<00:16:38.530> Ripple<00:16:38.930> advocates<00:16:39.507> and<00:16:39.604> XRP<00:16:40.052> advocates<00:16:40.453> say<00:16:40.630> that<00:16:41.976> there<00:16:42.377> could<00:16:42.457> be<00:16:42.553> some<00:16:42.713> sort<00:16:42.874> of<00:16:43.034> fork<00:16:43.579> or<00:16:44.701> the<00:16:45.342> other<00:16:45.519> participants<00:16:46.176> in<00:16:46.240> the<00:16:46.304> network<00:16:46.625> don't<00:16:46.785> have<00:16:46.961> to<00:16:47.506> use<00:16:47.603> UML<00:16:47.827> anymore.

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Well,<00:16:48.789> then<00:16:48.885> all<00:16:48.981> of<00:16:49.029> a<00:16:49.045> sudden<00:16:49.270> you<00:16:49.350> have<00:16:49.446> this<00:16:49.671> fragmentation<00:16:50.568> of<00:16:50.713> trust<00:16:51.354> that's<00:16:51.835> going<00:16:51.915> to<00:16:52.075> drive<00:16:52.300> drive<00:16:52.492> a<00:16:52.556> lot<00:16:52.636> of<00:16:52.716> the<00:16:52.877> active<00:16:53.197> participants<00:16:54.415> to<00:16:55.041> effectively<00:16:56.323> fork<00:16:56.660> the<00:16:56.740> network,<00:16:57.525> use<00:16:57.766> other<00:16:58.086> UNLs.

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You're<00:16:58.904> going<00:16:59.000> to<00:16:59.048> have<00:16:59.385> latency<00:16:59.785> issues,<00:17:00.891> you<00:17:00.923> have<00:17:01.052> network<00:17:01.308> instability,<00:17:02.270> and<00:17:02.430> really<00:17:02.735> degraded<00:17:03.312> performance,<00:17:04.418> which<00:17:04.915> would<00:17:05.075> likely<00:17:05.396> all<00:17:05.540> result<00:17:06.021> in<00:17:06.341> a<00:17:06.357> loss<00:17:06.678> of<00:17:06.758> network<00:17:07.143> value<00:17:07.480> overall.

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And<00:17:09.082> so<00:17:09.163> I<00:17:09.259> see<00:17:09.563> some<00:17:09.788> challenges<00:17:10.509> with<00:17:10.605> how<00:17:11.166> the<00:17:11.407> current<00:17:11.647> architecture<00:17:12.064> is<00:17:12.144> set<00:17:12.449> up<00:17:13.010> in<00:17:13.154> terms<00:17:13.410> of<00:17:13.491> longevity,<00:17:14.132> particularly<00:17:14.693> being<00:17:14.933> used<00:17:15.799> as<00:17:16.312> a<00:17:16.376> strategic<00:17:17.001> reserve,<00:17:17.418> which<00:17:17.642> has<00:17:18.364> been<00:17:18.524> a<00:17:18.620> talking<00:17:19.021> point.

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And<00:17:20.281> most<00:17:20.587> media's<00:17:21.151> attention<00:17:21.650> over<00:17:21.875> the<00:17:21.955> last<00:17:22.197> couple<00:17:22.455> of<00:17:22.519> weeks.

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Right.

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What<00:17:24.435> does<00:17:24.547> a<00:17:24.612> typical<00:17:25.014> day<00:17:25.240> look<00:17:25.352> like<00:17:25.578> for<00:17:25.722> you?

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I<00:17:26.125> wonder,<00:17:26.544> because<00:17:26.849> I<00:17:26.882> mean,<00:17:27.332> you<00:17:27.831> have<00:17:28.057> that<00:17:28.234> extensive<00:17:28.717> of<00:17:28.797> knowledge.

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You<00:17:29.490> must<00:17:29.684> be<00:17:29.830> reading<00:17:30.414> constantly,<00:17:31.873> like<00:17:32.262> on<00:17:32.602> these<00:17:32.764> things<00:17:33.089> and<00:17:33.170> kind<00:17:33.316> of<00:17:33.413> really<00:17:33.640> going<00:17:33.899> deep<00:17:34.126> on<00:17:34.175> them.

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Well,<00:17:34.953> you<00:17:35.034> know,<00:17:35.747> frankly<00:17:36.088> speaking,<00:17:37.207> the<00:17:38.179> crux<00:17:38.390> of<00:17:38.487> what<00:17:38.601> we<00:17:38.650> do<00:17:38.908> really<00:17:39.086> does<00:17:39.328> come<00:17:39.490> down<00:17:39.797> to<00:17:41.509> being<00:17:41.671> technically<00:17:42.140> active<00:17:42.398> with<00:17:42.511> these<00:17:42.640> projects,<00:17:43.271> running<00:17:43.529> validators<00:17:44.337> for<00:17:45.092> obviously<00:17:45.878> networks<00:17:46.295> that<00:17:46.536> we're<00:17:46.857> stewards<00:17:47.322> of,<00:17:49.007> joining<00:17:49.328> ActiveSets,<00:17:50.050> being<00:17:50.387> early<00:17:51.189> champions<00:17:51.590> of<00:17:51.734> governance<00:17:52.376> and<00:17:52.697> on-chain<00:17:53.098> mechanics<00:17:53.676> and<00:17:53.756> whatnot.

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And<00:17:55.120> so<00:17:56.147> you<00:17:56.339> learn<00:17:56.628> about<00:17:57.350> obviously<00:17:57.848> these<00:17:58.810> different<00:17:59.051> consensus<00:17:59.612> mechanisms,<00:18:00.736> the<00:18:01.538> various<00:18:02.099> intricacies<00:18:02.821> that<00:18:03.463> one<00:18:03.688> protocol<00:18:04.105> have<00:18:04.426> might<00:18:04.586> over<00:18:04.811> the<00:18:04.891> other,<00:18:05.854> and<00:18:06.351> try<00:18:06.592> to<00:18:06.656> understand<00:18:07.234> and<00:18:07.378> discern<00:18:08.020> what's<00:18:09.304> defensible,<00:18:10.443> what's<00:18:10.667> differentiated,<00:18:11.470> and<00:18:11.630> what's<00:18:11.887> going<00:18:11.999> to<00:18:12.031> have<00:18:12.208> staying<00:18:12.609> power<00:18:12.850> over<00:18:13.090> time.

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And<00:18:14.999> a<00:18:15.015> lot<00:18:15.240> of<00:18:15.272> that<00:18:16.379> we<00:18:16.523> look<00:18:16.764> at<00:18:16.940> from<00:18:17.181> more<00:18:17.357> of<00:18:17.437> a<00:18:17.502> technical<00:18:17.967> point<00:18:18.159> of<00:18:18.223> view<00:18:18.608> than<00:18:18.945> really<00:18:19.186> just<00:18:19.523> a<00:18:19.651> pure<00:18:20.710> market<00:18:21.833> adoption<00:18:22.298> point<00:18:22.474> of<00:18:22.554> view.

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And<00:18:23.276> so<00:18:24.319> I<00:18:24.383> think<00:18:24.495> a<00:18:24.544> lot<00:18:25.105> of<00:18:25.265> the<00:18:25.297> knowledge<00:18:25.682> comes<00:18:26.003> from<00:18:26.244> both<00:18:26.549> our<00:18:26.869> active<00:18:27.286> participation<00:18:27.992> in<00:18:28.089> these<00:18:28.249> networks<00:18:28.794> and<00:18:29.693> mostly<00:18:30.013> the<00:18:30.094> fact<00:18:30.398> that<00:18:30.735> this<00:18:30.896> is<00:18:30.976> the<00:18:31.072> stuff<00:18:31.297> I'm<00:18:31.393> interested<00:18:31.842> in.

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We<00:18:32.724> don't<00:18:32.901> do<00:18:33.061> a<00:18:33.077> lot—<00:18:33.526> we<00:18:33.607> don't<00:18:33.767> invest<00:18:34.024> in<00:18:34.168> dApps,<00:18:34.649> we<00:18:34.681> don't<00:18:34.890> invest<00:18:35.307> in<00:18:35.692> L3s.

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We're<00:18:36.205> really<00:18:36.991> focused<00:18:37.472> on<00:18:37.553> the<00:18:37.697> protocol<00:18:38.114> level<00:18:38.836> and<00:18:38.996> infrastructure<00:18:39.558> level<00:18:40.103> of<00:18:40.440> Web3.

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What<00:18:41.739> do<00:18:41.867> you<00:18:41.947> think<00:18:42.284> of<00:18:42.749> AI<00:18:43.646> and<00:18:43.726> how<00:18:43.903> it's<00:18:44.063> disrupting<00:18:45.009> Web3?

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And<00:18:45.955> obviously<00:18:46.227> nobody<00:18:46.596> else<00:18:46.756> knows<00:18:46.932> the<00:18:47.013> answer<00:18:47.157> to<00:18:47.237> that<00:18:47.397> question,<00:18:47.638> but<00:18:48.279> of<00:18:48.439> this<00:18:48.615> question<00:18:48.952> in<00:18:49.016> particular,<00:18:49.497> which<00:18:49.722> is,<00:18:50.218> you<00:18:50.299> know,<00:18:50.844> what<00:18:50.892> does<00:18:51.164> our<00:18:51.421> future<00:18:51.821> look<00:18:51.982> like<00:18:52.286> given<00:18:52.527> this<00:18:52.703> technology<00:18:53.264> that's<00:18:53.504> taking<00:18:53.729> over<00:18:53.905> the<00:18:54.049> world?

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How<00:18:54.947> does<00:18:55.107> Web3's<00:18:55.749> future<00:18:56.053> look<00:18:56.230> like,<00:18:56.470> or<00:18:56.550> how<00:18:56.791> does,<00:18:57.175> uh,<00:18:57.977> Web3<00:18:58.394> particularly,<00:18:59.179> and<00:18:59.259> then<00:18:59.435> probably<00:18:59.980> just<00:19:00.301> generally<00:19:01.263> as<00:19:01.439> well?

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I'd<00:19:01.904> love—<00:19:02.160> but<00:19:02.385> I'd<00:19:02.481> be—<00:19:02.882> but<00:19:03.026> yeah,<00:19:03.283> I<00:19:03.363> mean,<00:19:03.587> obviously,<00:19:03.988> as<00:19:04.068> you<00:19:04.228> know,<00:19:04.405> like,<00:19:05.126> there<00:19:05.206> was<00:19:05.366> a<00:19:05.431> period<00:19:05.751> where<00:19:06.248> every<00:19:06.488> startup<00:19:07.033> was<00:19:07.194> a<00:19:07.274> Web3<00:19:07.611> startup.

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Right.

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And<00:19:09.678> then<00:19:09.919> almost<00:19:10.239> immediately<00:19:10.897> every<00:19:11.057> startup<00:19:11.378> was<00:19:11.506> an<00:19:11.602> AI<00:19:11.875> startup.

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Right.

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And<00:19:13.317> so<00:19:13.526> there,<00:19:13.782> there's<00:19:14.007> some<00:19:14.103> overlap<00:19:14.519> in<00:19:14.648> these<00:19:14.808> two<00:19:14.984> things.

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And<00:19:16.026> I<00:19:16.106> just<00:19:16.267> wonder<00:19:16.491> like<00:19:16.652> how<00:19:16.892> you<00:19:16.988> think<00:19:17.533> about<00:19:18.735> AI<00:19:18.992> affecting<00:19:19.473> the<00:19:19.553> Web3<00:19:19.938> industry<00:19:20.515> and<00:19:20.916> then<00:19:21.076> just<00:19:21.300> your<00:19:21.557> general<00:19:21.877> thoughts<00:19:22.054> on<00:19:22.182> AI<00:19:22.743> overall.

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Yeah.

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You<00:19:24.282> know,<00:19:24.667> AI<00:19:25.083> has<00:19:25.404> the<00:19:25.548> obviously<00:19:26.751> opportunity<00:19:27.408> to<00:19:27.552> disrupt<00:19:28.289> every<00:19:28.530> industry<00:19:29.395> and<00:19:29.476> it's<00:19:29.652> doing<00:19:29.973> that.

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And<00:19:31.960> it's<00:19:32.217> funny,<00:19:32.714> you<00:19:33.018> know,<00:19:33.179> the<00:19:33.259> way<00:19:33.419> you<00:19:33.563> phrase<00:19:34.044> it,<00:19:34.461> right,<00:19:34.766> where<00:19:34.926> you<00:19:34.958> see<00:19:35.808> basically<00:19:36.369> this<00:19:36.609> sort<00:19:36.785> of<00:19:36.930> follow<00:19:37.266> the<00:19:37.411> herd<00:19:37.731> hype<00:19:37.972> mentality,<00:19:39.254> you<00:19:39.286> know,<00:19:39.494> NFTs,<00:19:40.232> Web3,<00:19:41.018> AI,<00:19:41.275> whatever<00:19:41.532> it<00:19:41.596> might<00:19:41.820> be.

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But<00:19:44.002> the<00:19:44.724> technological<00:19:45.366> transformations<00:19:46.393> of,<00:19:46.954> you<00:19:46.986> know,<00:19:47.195> AI<00:19:47.612> in<00:19:47.949> terms<00:19:48.190> of<00:19:48.414> where<00:19:48.575> a<00:19:48.591> lot<00:19:48.815> of<00:19:48.879> the<00:19:48.960> disruption's<00:19:49.762> been<00:19:49.922> going<00:19:50.163> on<00:19:50.259> has<00:19:50.500> been,<00:19:50.644> you<00:19:50.821> know,<00:19:50.965> happening<00:19:51.302> for<00:19:51.462> years<00:19:51.703> and<00:19:51.783> years<00:19:51.960> and<00:19:52.088> years.

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I<00:19:52.553> was<00:19:52.730> at<00:19:52.826> Firstround.

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One<00:19:53.468> of<00:19:53.612> the<00:19:53.965> first<00:19:54.655> things<00:19:54.912> we<00:19:55.217> looked<00:19:55.473> at<00:19:56.276> was<00:19:57.383> AI-driven<00:19:57.960> chatbots,<00:19:59.308> and<00:19:59.388> it<00:19:59.484> was—<00:20:00.206> this<00:20:00.431> was<00:20:01.073> honestly<00:20:01.425> like<00:20:01.794> almost<00:20:02.067> a<00:20:02.292> decade<00:20:02.629> ago,<00:20:03.495> but<00:20:03.607> it<00:20:03.656> was<00:20:03.800> too<00:20:03.976> early,<00:20:04.602> and<00:20:04.682> there<00:20:04.779> was<00:20:04.939> a<00:20:05.019> lot<00:20:05.196> of<00:20:05.324> issues<00:20:05.886> with,<00:20:06.222> you<00:20:06.463> know,<00:20:06.784> both,<00:20:07.586> both<00:20:07.811> hosting<00:20:08.469> and<00:20:08.613> hypervising<00:20:09.351> and<00:20:09.560> et<00:20:09.688> cetera.

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And<00:20:10.136> it<00:20:10.232> just<00:20:10.457> wasn't<00:20:10.713> investable<00:20:11.258> or<00:20:11.450> feasible<00:20:11.899> at<00:20:11.995> the<00:20:12.075> time.

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So<00:20:13.053> it's<00:20:13.261> really<00:20:13.517> funny<00:20:13.854> to<00:20:13.982> kind<00:20:14.174> of<00:20:14.238> see<00:20:14.623> what's<00:20:14.799> happened<00:20:15.664> in<00:20:15.760> such<00:20:16.001> a<00:20:16.065> short<00:20:16.401> time<00:20:16.786> frame.

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Um,<00:20:18.068> obviously<00:20:18.340> there's<00:20:18.548> been<00:20:18.645> a<00:20:18.725> disruption<00:20:19.302> and<00:20:19.590> a<00:20:19.670> lot<00:20:19.782> of<00:20:19.846> different<00:20:20.087> laws<00:20:20.391> out<00:20:20.503> there<00:20:20.648> as<00:20:20.808> well,<00:20:21.673> um,<00:20:21.993> that<00:20:22.634> enable<00:20:22.971> this<00:20:23.195> to,<00:20:23.532> to<00:20:23.676> really<00:20:23.852> take<00:20:24.092> place.

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Um,<00:20:25.374> but,<00:20:25.583> you<00:20:25.631> know,<00:20:25.775> to<00:20:25.871> kind<00:20:26.015> of<00:20:26.079> go<00:20:26.175> back<00:20:26.400> to<00:20:26.464> your<00:20:26.576> question,<00:20:27.602> AI<00:20:28.098> is<00:20:28.499> definitely<00:20:28.835> disrupting<00:20:29.284> Web3.

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Um,<00:20:30.646> you<00:20:30.678> know,<00:20:30.918> it's—<00:20:31.223> and<00:20:31.367> it's<00:20:31.463> enhancing<00:20:32.008> it<00:20:32.168> more<00:20:32.360> than<00:20:32.505> anything,<00:20:33.370> whether<00:20:33.546> that's<00:20:33.786> efficiency,<00:20:34.508> whether<00:20:34.668> that's,<00:20:35.068> you<00:20:35.132> know,<00:20:35.213> security,<00:20:35.853> you<00:20:35.934> know,<00:20:36.110> whether<00:20:36.254> that's<00:20:36.494> usability.

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Whether<00:20:37.873> that's<00:20:38.580> AI<00:20:38.836> to<00:20:38.917> deploy<00:20:39.238> a<00:20:39.398> trillion<00:20:39.783> different<00:20:40.104> meme<00:20:40.618> smart<00:20:40.923> contracts<00:20:41.581> every<00:20:42.207> day,<00:20:43.009> right,<00:20:43.314> and<00:20:43.395> making<00:20:43.716> it<00:20:43.796> much<00:20:43.972> easier<00:20:44.149> to<00:20:44.358> launch<00:20:44.598> your<00:20:44.759> own<00:20:44.855> token,<00:20:45.882> um,<00:20:46.380> you<00:20:46.556> know,<00:20:46.637> whether<00:20:46.861> that's<00:20:47.182> being<00:20:47.407> used<00:20:47.648> to<00:20:47.889> optimize<00:20:48.787> smart<00:20:49.108> contract<00:20:49.606> sequencing,<00:20:50.713> making<00:20:50.954> them<00:20:51.179> faster,<00:20:52.575> detecting<00:20:53.041> vulnerabilities,<00:20:54.325> optimizing<00:20:54.806> code<00:20:55.047> execution,<00:20:56.491> whether<00:20:56.652> that's<00:20:56.893> for<00:20:57.438> AI-driven<00:20:58.080> audits,<00:20:58.722> real-time<00:20:59.140> monitoring,<00:21:00.119> you<00:21:00.247> know,<00:21:00.424> reducing<00:21:00.825> the<00:21:00.889> risk<00:21:01.146> of<00:21:01.226> exploits<00:21:01.868> or<00:21:02.013> hacks<00:21:02.510> and<00:21:02.671> DeFi,<00:21:03.858> uh,<00:21:03.955> preventing<00:21:04.500> obviously<00:21:04.821> certain<00:21:05.078> points<00:21:05.383> of<00:21:05.479> liquidation<00:21:07.484> And<00:21:07.564> then<00:21:07.708> you<00:21:07.853> have<00:21:08.109> obviously<00:21:08.926> certain<00:21:09.391> of<00:21:09.552> the<00:21:10.273> agentic<00:21:10.770> type<00:21:11.074> networks<00:21:11.555> overall,<00:21:12.132> one<00:21:12.276> of<00:21:12.373> which<00:21:12.533> we're<00:21:12.693> very<00:21:12.934> active<00:21:13.318> with,<00:21:14.537> which<00:21:14.937> really<00:21:15.242> uses<00:21:15.578> an<00:21:15.739> agentic<00:21:16.364> network<00:21:16.781> for<00:21:17.726> autonomous<00:21:18.848> modules.

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And<00:21:20.066> so<00:21:21.108> whether<00:21:21.285> that's<00:21:21.669> effectively<00:21:22.294> having<00:21:22.615> kind<00:21:22.791> of<00:21:22.936> LLM<00:21:23.272> hosting<00:21:23.753> that<00:21:24.090> occurs<00:21:24.539> on<00:21:24.635> chain<00:21:25.019> or<00:21:25.051> whatever<00:21:25.356> it<00:21:25.404> might<00:21:25.661> be.

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So<00:21:26.959> all<00:21:27.039> these<00:21:27.263> things<00:21:27.424> are<00:21:27.456> super<00:21:27.824> exciting<00:21:28.786> and<00:21:29.043> there's<00:21:29.267> no<00:21:29.443> doubt<00:21:29.764> that<00:21:29.988> AI<00:21:30.245> is<00:21:30.870> fundamentally<00:21:31.511> reshaping<00:21:32.152> Web3<00:21:32.633> overall.

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By<00:21:34.399> making<00:21:34.819> it<00:21:35.529> more<00:21:35.706> scalable,<00:21:36.432> by<00:21:36.529> making<00:21:36.836> it<00:21:36.868> more<00:21:37.078> secure,<00:21:37.465> and<00:21:37.545> by<00:21:37.642> making<00:21:37.965> it<00:21:37.997> more<00:21:38.272> user-friendly.

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And<00:21:41.126> it's<00:21:41.935> accelerating<00:21:43.652> the<00:21:43.814> trajectory<00:21:45.417> of<00:21:46.001> adoption<00:21:48.333> more<00:21:48.495> than<00:21:48.560> anything.

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And<00:21:49.959> that<00:21:50.505> is<00:21:50.666> the<00:21:50.763> biggest<00:21:51.068> takeaway<00:21:51.342> to<00:21:51.406> me,<00:21:52.114> that<00:21:52.435> AI<00:21:52.612> is<00:21:52.709> an<00:21:52.837> enabler<00:21:54.044> and<00:21:54.301> it's<00:21:54.526> not<00:21:54.703> something<00:21:55.025> that's<00:21:55.330> like<00:21:55.829> a<00:21:55.893> massive<00:21:56.392> disruptor<00:21:57.346> per<00:21:57.524> se<00:21:57.847> that's<00:21:58.074> going<00:21:58.154> to<00:21:58.235> eliminate<00:21:59.044> a<00:21:59.125> ton<00:21:59.302> of<00:21:59.367> jobs.

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And<00:22:00.337> granted,<00:22:01.388> it<00:22:01.728> can<00:22:01.971> do<00:22:02.068> that<00:22:02.375> and<00:22:02.536> has<00:22:02.795> done<00:22:03.005> that<00:22:03.119> and<00:22:03.264> will<00:22:03.410> continue<00:22:03.620> to<00:22:03.749> do<00:22:03.782> that.

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But<00:22:05.003> in<00:22:05.083> doing<00:22:05.324> so,<00:22:05.484> it's<00:22:05.629> making<00:22:05.869> things<00:22:06.046> more<00:22:06.190> efficient<00:22:06.767> and<00:22:06.912> it's<00:22:07.168> opening<00:22:07.409> the<00:22:07.553> doors<00:22:08.515> of<00:22:08.996> new<00:22:09.093> possibilities<00:22:09.879> overall<00:22:10.777> and<00:22:10.857> setting<00:22:11.178> the<00:22:11.258> stage<00:22:11.803> for<00:22:12.525> really<00:22:12.845> what<00:22:13.006> we<00:22:13.166> view<00:22:13.343> as<00:22:13.503> a<00:22:13.567> more<00:22:14.144> autonomous<00:22:14.786> and<00:22:14.866> efficient<00:22:15.347> digital<00:22:16.053> economy.

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Yeah.

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What<00:22:18.378> do<00:22:18.458> you<00:22:18.619> look<00:22:18.859> for<00:22:19.517> in<00:22:19.613> a<00:22:19.677> founder,<00:22:20.623> a<00:22:20.639> leader,<00:22:21.120> an<00:22:21.265> entrepreneur?

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Like,<00:22:22.067> what<00:22:22.163> are<00:22:22.227> some<00:22:22.468> leadership<00:22:22.949> traits<00:22:23.446> that<00:22:23.670> you've<00:22:24.168> noticed<00:22:24.649> over<00:22:24.809> the<00:22:24.953> years<00:22:25.290> is<00:22:26.012> really<00:22:26.252> valuable<00:22:26.733> for<00:22:26.878> those<00:22:27.054> who<00:22:27.134> are<00:22:27.215> starting<00:22:27.535> these<00:22:27.696> types<00:22:27.936> of<00:22:28.000> companies?

00:22:28.979 --> 00:22:35.775
Every<00:22:29.155> founder<00:22:29.620> has<00:22:30.504> different<00:22:30.747> styles,<00:22:31.863> different<00:22:32.105> traits,<00:22:32.445> different<00:22:32.687> qualities,<00:22:33.156> different<00:22:33.415> things<00:22:33.738> that<00:22:34.239> make<00:22:34.482> them<00:22:34.627> successful,<00:22:35.177> make<00:22:35.355> them<00:22:35.501> work.

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But<00:22:36.603> I'd<00:22:36.749> say<00:22:37.009> that<00:22:37.253> the<00:22:37.431> recurring<00:22:38.064> pattern<00:22:38.616> in<00:22:38.860> terms<00:22:39.136> of<00:22:39.347> repeatability,<00:22:40.435> if<00:22:40.646> I<00:22:40.727> look<00:22:40.970> at<00:22:41.052> successful<00:22:41.620> founders<00:22:42.026> that<00:22:42.123> have<00:22:42.286> done<00:22:42.448> it<00:22:42.529> time<00:22:42.773> and<00:22:42.919> time<00:22:43.032> again,<00:22:45.145> it's<00:22:45.406> the<00:22:45.569> founders<00:22:46.773> who<00:22:47.766> know<00:22:47.929> what<00:22:48.092> they<00:22:48.238> don't<00:22:48.417> know<00:22:49.622> and<00:22:50.289> are<00:22:50.436> not<00:22:51.168> necessarily<00:22:53.681> stubborn<00:22:54.573> or<00:22:55.400> naive<00:22:55.741> enough<00:22:56.373> to<00:22:57.727> ask<00:22:57.889> the<00:22:57.970> right<00:22:58.132> questions<00:22:59.251> and<00:22:59.834> put<00:22:59.980> themselves<00:23:00.402> in<00:23:00.467> a<00:23:00.548> point<00:23:00.726> of<00:23:00.791> vulnerability<00:23:01.439> where<00:23:01.925> they<00:23:02.169> admit<00:23:02.428> that<00:23:02.590> they<00:23:02.671> don't<00:23:02.817> know<00:23:02.849> the<00:23:03.060> answers<00:23:03.384> to<00:23:03.417> certain<00:23:03.644> things<00:23:03.903> and<00:23:04.033> they<00:23:04.697> seek<00:23:05.021> out<00:23:05.167> that<00:23:05.281> advice.

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And<00:23:07.240> then<00:23:07.352> simultaneously,<00:23:08.236> it's<00:23:08.381> those<00:23:08.638> ones<00:23:09.040> that<00:23:09.843> know<00:23:10.020> exactly<00:23:10.792> how<00:23:11.370> and<00:23:11.531> when<00:23:11.772> to<00:23:11.917> delegate<00:23:12.961> and<00:23:13.620> put<00:23:13.845> full<00:23:14.086> trust<00:23:14.729> into<00:23:14.906> who<00:23:15.051> they<00:23:15.147> delegate<00:23:15.549> those<00:23:15.726> tasks<00:23:16.256> to.

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Because,<00:23:17.863> you<00:23:17.895> know,<00:23:18.104> again,<00:23:18.441> you<00:23:18.666> know,<00:23:19.067> the<00:23:19.308> ones<00:23:19.549> that<00:23:19.646> have<00:23:19.807> failed<00:23:20.224> a<00:23:20.353> lot<00:23:20.529> of<00:23:20.594> times<00:23:20.931> are<00:23:20.995> the<00:23:21.092> ones<00:23:21.397> that<00:23:21.638> think<00:23:21.975> that<00:23:22.200> they<00:23:22.457> can<00:23:22.682> do<00:23:22.795> it<00:23:22.923> all<00:23:23.020> themselves<00:23:23.823> and<00:23:23.968> that,<00:23:24.707> you<00:23:24.739> know,<00:23:24.867> they're<00:23:24.964> smarter<00:23:25.349> than<00:23:25.494> everyone<00:23:25.751> else<00:23:25.897> in<00:23:25.948> the<00:23:25.983> room.

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And<00:23:26.155> that's<00:23:26.259> extremely<00:23:26.431> dangerous.

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And<00:23:26.724> so<00:23:26.758> it's<00:23:26.827> interesting<00:23:28.936> interesting<00:23:29.160> to<00:23:29.208> see<00:23:29.529> those<00:23:29.834> traits<00:23:31.102> and,<00:23:31.343> you<00:23:31.439> know,<00:23:31.616> the<00:23:32.177> symbiotic<00:23:32.643> relationship<00:23:33.269> with<00:23:33.429> them,<00:23:33.927> you<00:23:34.007> know,<00:23:34.087> particularly<00:23:34.569> when<00:23:34.729> you<00:23:34.874> have<00:23:36.575> repeat<00:23:37.201> highly<00:23:37.474> successful<00:23:38.084> founders<00:23:39.287> that<00:23:39.704> have,<00:23:40.250> you<00:23:40.282> know,<00:23:40.427> taken<00:23:40.764> a<00:23:40.812> much<00:23:41.149> more<00:23:41.374> humbled<00:23:41.711> approach<00:23:42.192> to<00:23:42.449> their<00:23:42.593> next<00:23:42.898> startup,<00:23:43.941> and<00:23:44.519> it's<00:23:44.760> been,<00:23:44.985> you<00:23:45.017> know,<00:23:45.225> the<00:23:45.306> most<00:23:45.482> successful.

00:23:46.429 --> 00:23:52.239
You<00:23:46.461> know,<00:23:46.525> I<00:23:46.606> think<00:23:46.846> the,<00:23:47.312> the<00:23:47.392> media<00:23:47.729> draws<00:23:48.050> a<00:23:48.130> lot<00:23:48.355> of<00:23:49.238> adverse<00:23:49.510> attention<00:23:50.040> on,<00:23:50.217> you<00:23:50.297> know,<00:23:50.457> people<00:23:50.762> like<00:23:51.003> Elon<00:23:51.260> Musk,<00:23:51.581> for<00:23:51.741> example.

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And,<00:23:52.865> you<00:23:53.009> know,<00:23:53.170> granted,<00:23:53.587> some<00:23:53.828> of<00:23:53.860> the<00:23:53.908> stuff<00:23:54.149> he's<00:23:54.309> been<00:23:54.470> doing<00:23:54.694> has<00:23:56.740> quasi-questionable,<00:23:57.304> you<00:23:57.337> know,<00:23:57.482> of<00:23:57.643> late<00:23:58.063> from<00:23:58.289> a<00:23:58.709> government<00:23:59.112> perspective.

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But<00:24:00.016> if<00:24:00.484> you<00:24:00.646> look<00:24:00.807> at<00:24:00.856> him<00:24:00.969> as,<00:24:01.211> you<00:24:01.308> know,<00:24:02.099> a<00:24:02.163> founder<00:24:02.663> and<00:24:02.825> a<00:24:02.889> leader<00:24:03.132> at<00:24:03.228> these<00:24:03.390> organizations,<00:24:04.907> um,<00:24:05.553> I<00:24:05.569> know<00:24:05.714> people<00:24:05.892> who've<00:24:06.117> worked<00:24:06.375> for<00:24:07.584> SpaceX,<00:24:08.551> Tesla,<00:24:09.517> whatever<00:24:09.824> it<00:24:09.856> might<00:24:10.081> be,<00:24:10.871> and<00:24:11.516> he<00:24:11.596> was<00:24:11.854> never<00:24:13.208> quick<00:24:13.610> or,<00:24:13.949> you<00:24:14.110> know,<00:24:14.320> never<00:24:16.103> too<00:24:16.280> slow<00:24:16.907> to<00:24:18.835> make<00:24:19.092> sure<00:24:19.349> that<00:24:19.494> he<00:24:19.639> delegated<00:24:20.057> tasks<00:24:20.683> to<00:24:21.262> the<00:24:21.342> next<00:24:21.503> person<00:24:21.808> in<00:24:21.840> the<00:24:21.969> room<00:24:22.371> and<00:24:22.531> relinquished<00:24:23.255> certain<00:24:23.480> responsibilities<00:24:24.261> and<00:24:24.328> traits<00:24:24.411> to<00:24:24.444> them,<00:24:24.544> contrary<00:24:24.677> to<00:24:24.727> what<00:24:24.777> it<00:24:24.810> looks<00:24:24.893> like<00:24:24.943> from<00:24:25.010> the<00:24:26.980> media's<00:24:27.236> perspective,<00:24:28.135> and<00:24:28.215> at<00:24:28.295> the<00:24:28.375> same<00:24:28.616> time<00:24:29.402> was<00:24:30.044> always<00:24:30.381> willing<00:24:30.686> to<00:24:30.782> be<00:24:30.926> kind<00:24:31.087> of<00:24:31.119> like<00:24:31.279> a<00:24:31.648> servant<00:24:31.969> leader<00:24:32.162> of<00:24:32.290> sorts,<00:24:32.884> spending<00:24:33.333> hours<00:24:33.589> and<00:24:33.734> hours<00:24:33.926> and<00:24:34.055> hours<00:24:34.295> on<00:24:34.456> end,<00:24:34.632> and<00:24:35.194> nothing<00:24:35.499> was<00:24:35.675> beneath<00:24:35.996> him.

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It<00:24:36.477> was<00:24:36.622> that<00:24:36.959> kind<00:24:37.119> of<00:24:37.183> humbled<00:24:37.681> nature<00:24:38.707> that<00:24:38.868> drove<00:24:39.189> him<00:24:39.301> to<00:24:39.381> the<00:24:39.461> next<00:24:39.750> level.

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And<00:24:40.649> I<00:24:40.745> see<00:24:40.969> it<00:24:41.050> time<00:24:41.226> and<00:24:41.290> time<00:24:41.451> again<00:24:41.772> from<00:24:42.558> our<00:24:42.718> best<00:24:42.959> founders<00:24:43.520> and<00:24:43.617> our<00:24:44.002> most<00:24:44.130> successful<00:24:44.659> portfolio<00:24:45.141> companies.

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Finally,<00:24:46.184> we<00:24:46.408> end<00:24:46.569> every<00:24:46.681> interview<00:24:46.970> with<00:24:47.066> the<00:24:47.146> same<00:24:47.371> question,<00:24:47.948> and<00:24:48.029> that<00:24:48.253> is,<00:24:48.430> at<00:24:48.510> CEO.com,<00:24:49.216> we<00:24:49.376> believe<00:24:49.569> the<00:24:49.697> chances<00:24:50.034> one<00:24:50.339> gives<00:24:50.916> is<00:24:51.061> just<00:24:51.253> as<00:24:51.382> important<00:24:51.638> as<00:24:51.719> the<00:24:51.799> chances<00:24:52.200> one<00:24:52.360> takes.

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When<00:24:53.403> you<00:24:53.564> hear<00:24:53.724> that,<00:24:53.900> who<00:24:54.045> gave<00:24:54.269> you<00:24:54.366> a<00:24:54.430> chance<00:24:54.687> to<00:24:54.767> get<00:24:54.927> you<00:24:55.024> to<00:24:55.088> where<00:24:55.248> you<00:24:55.473> are<00:24:55.569> today?

00:24:56.596 --> 00:24:59.179
Who<00:24:56.756> gave<00:24:56.933> me<00:24:57.013> a<00:24:57.093> chance<00:24:57.494> to<00:24:57.655> get<00:24:57.815> to<00:24:57.960> where<00:24:58.120> I<00:24:58.216> am<00:24:58.842> today?

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I'd<00:25:00.045> go<00:25:00.206> back<00:25:00.446> to<00:25:00.527> my<00:25:00.639> mother.

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Absolutely.

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I<00:25:03.735> was<00:25:04.008> in<00:25:04.152> high<00:25:04.329> school,<00:25:05.356> or<00:25:05.516> not<00:25:05.677> even<00:25:05.821> high<00:25:05.853> school,<00:25:06.158> middle<00:25:06.334> school,<00:25:07.586> and<00:25:07.666> I<00:25:07.682> was<00:25:07.987> reading<00:25:08.340> about<00:25:09.110> Warren<00:25:09.367> Buffett<00:25:09.992> and,<00:25:10.249> you<00:25:10.329> know,<00:25:10.730> he<00:25:10.955> wanted<00:25:11.148> to,<00:25:11.613> you<00:25:11.693> know,<00:25:12.319> super<00:25:12.640> successful,<00:25:13.442> donated<00:25:13.859> all<00:25:13.955> these<00:25:14.164> charities.

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And,<00:25:15.287> you<00:25:15.319> know,<00:25:15.447> my<00:25:15.479> mom<00:25:15.736> made<00:25:15.864> a<00:25:15.945> comment,<00:25:16.266> if<00:25:16.410> you<00:25:16.506> want<00:25:16.651> to<00:25:16.731> be<00:25:16.779> like<00:25:17.052> him,<00:25:17.228> you<00:25:17.308> got<00:25:17.453> to<00:25:17.533> go<00:25:17.710> to<00:25:18.496> Ivy<00:25:19.057> League<00:25:19.218> school<00:25:19.555> and<00:25:19.699> do<00:25:19.795> this<00:25:20.036> and<00:25:20.100> that.

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And<00:25:20.597> irrespective<00:25:21.143> of<00:25:21.239> whether<00:25:21.448> or<00:25:21.480> not<00:25:21.704> that<00:25:21.881> was<00:25:22.090> is,<00:25:22.202> you<00:25:22.698> know,<00:25:22.779> true.

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I<00:25:23.708> told<00:25:23.900> her<00:25:23.964> that's<00:25:24.269> what<00:25:24.365> I<00:25:24.429> wanted<00:25:24.702> to<00:25:24.766> do.

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And,<00:25:26.829> you<00:25:26.849> know,<00:25:26.945> for<00:25:27.073> the<00:25:27.105> next<00:25:27.394> 4<00:25:27.474> or<00:25:27.634> 5<00:25:27.955> years,<00:25:28.852> you<00:25:28.932> know,<00:25:29.157> she<00:25:29.317> basically<00:25:30.278> helped<00:25:31.176> manage<00:25:31.496> and<00:25:31.640> organize<00:25:32.137> my<00:25:32.297> life.

00:25:33.243 --> 00:25:52.028
You<00:25:33.275> know,<00:25:33.419> we<00:25:33.499> had<00:25:33.644> this<00:25:33.884> massive<00:25:35.182> binder<00:25:35.422> or<00:25:35.663> book,<00:25:36.192> you<00:25:36.224> know,<00:25:36.320> whether<00:25:36.544> that<00:25:36.704> was<00:25:38.371> academics<00:25:39.124> or<00:25:39.188> extracurriculars<00:25:40.390> or<00:25:40.534> charity<00:25:40.951> or<00:25:41.095> whatever<00:25:41.352> it<00:25:41.416> might<00:25:41.672> be,<00:25:41.993> but<00:25:42.618> basically<00:25:43.098> ensuring<00:25:43.531> that,<00:25:43.820> you<00:25:43.852> know,<00:25:43.996> everything<00:25:44.621> I<00:25:44.717> did<00:25:46.063> was<00:25:46.656> setting<00:25:47.025> me<00:25:47.185> up<00:25:47.281> for<00:25:47.748> success<00:25:48.378> and<00:25:48.459> leading<00:25:48.701> me<00:25:48.862> to<00:25:49.105> really<00:25:49.282> my<00:25:49.428> next<00:25:49.735> goal<00:25:49.977> that<00:25:50.461> I<00:25:51.124> dedicated<00:25:51.689> to<00:25:51.850> do.

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And<00:25:53.934> very<00:25:54.112> much<00:25:54.677> time<00:25:54.935> intensive.

00:25:55.953 --> 00:25:57.713
She<00:25:56.114> was<00:25:56.227> a<00:25:56.292> single<00:25:56.615> mother<00:25:56.922> as<00:25:57.083> well<00:25:57.310> at<00:25:57.406> the<00:25:57.487> time.

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Parents<00:25:58.536> were<00:25:58.585> divorced,<00:25:59.037> so<00:25:59.505> it<00:25:59.586> was<00:25:59.699> a<00:25:59.828> lot<00:26:00.005> of<00:26:00.070> time<00:26:00.328> and<00:26:00.409> effort<00:26:00.732> that<00:26:00.958> she<00:26:01.604> put<00:26:01.765> into<00:26:01.959> investing<00:26:02.508> in<00:26:02.604> me.

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And<00:26:03.621> I<00:26:03.718> definitely<00:26:04.073> look<00:26:04.203> back<00:26:04.461> and<00:26:04.606> think<00:26:04.832> on<00:26:04.913> that<00:26:05.090> as<00:26:05.413> being<00:26:05.591> a<00:26:05.720> pinnacle<00:26:06.059> point<00:26:07.009> of<00:26:07.089> turning<00:26:07.411> my<00:26:10.242> current<00:26:10.869> career<00:26:11.287> or<00:26:11.448> trajectory<00:26:12.092> into<00:26:12.333> what<00:26:12.510> it<00:26:12.638> is<00:26:12.799> today.

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That's<00:26:13.539> incredible.

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That's<00:26:14.022> a<00:26:14.102> fantastic<00:26:14.649> answer.

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I<00:26:14.906> can't<00:26:15.131> think<00:26:15.244> of<00:26:15.324> a<00:26:15.389> better<00:26:15.630> answer.

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Thank<00:26:16.134> you,<00:26:16.252> Anthony,<00:26:16.386> so<00:26:16.437> much<00:26:16.487> for<00:26:16.538> coming<00:26:16.621> on<00:26:16.655> the<00:26:16.722> show.

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It<00:26:16.840> means<00:26:16.924> a<00:26:16.941> lot<00:26:17.025> to<00:26:17.075> have<00:26:17.142> you.

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Let's<00:26:19.646> have<00:26:19.806> you<00:26:19.902> back<00:26:20.143> on<00:26:20.287> again<00:26:20.544> as<00:26:20.624> things<00:26:20.865> progress<00:26:21.346> here,<00:26:21.587> particularly<00:26:22.068> like<00:26:22.245> in<00:26:22.309> this<00:26:22.469> interesting<00:26:22.870> market.

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But<00:26:23.512> what<00:26:23.672> an<00:26:23.753> honor<00:26:23.913> to<00:26:24.057> have<00:26:24.234> you.

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Thanks<00:26:24.619> for<00:26:24.699> stopping<00:26:24.972> by.

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Awesome.

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Thanks,<00:26:26.480> man.