Shensi Ding-Lopez still codes at night

Shensi Ding-Lopez sits in meetings until six or seven most nights. Then she opens the codebase.

By her own accounting, she is the non-technical co-founder of Merge. She never worked as a software engineer outside of internships. After Columbia, she went into banking, then growth equity, then startup operations. When she and Gil Feig started Merge in 2020, Feig put in years helping her become a real engineer. It paid off in an unglamorous way: when the company built its second product, she, Feig, and one other engineer wrote the entire thing themselves.

"There's just no substitute for actually doing the work yourself," she said on the CEO.com Podcast.

Merge sells a unified API that lets B2B software companies connect their products to hundreds of third-party systems: HR platforms, applicant tracking, accounting, file storage, ticketing. About 120 employees across San Francisco, New York City, and Berlin. More than 400 enterprise customers and around 20,000 self-serve organizations. The company has raised roughly $74.5 million, most of it in a $55 million Series B led by Accel.

Ding-Lopez and Feig met as 18-year-old freshmen at Columbia, in a computer science department small enough that everyone knew everyone. When she later moved to San Francisco, he helped her find her first apartment, then her first car. They compared notes on their jobs and kept hearing the same complaint in stereo. At Expanse, where she was chief of staff, integrations came up in executive syncs and sales meetings until the company hired a full team of engineers just to build them. At Jumpstart, where Feig ran engineering, customers kept asking for applicant tracking integrations he didn't have. They quit and built the fix.

"The company was built on a foundation of trust because we'd known each other for so long," she told the CEO.com Podcast. "And honestly, it's just really fun building a company with one of your best friends."

The early product was rough. Customers used it anyway. They filed feedback, worked through bugs, stayed engaged. Ding-Lopez considers that the real test. "If someone immediately gives up on your product, they probably didn't need it that badly."

The second product is Agent Handler, which she describes as the company's second act. It exists because AI agents broke the old assumptions about integrations. Software workflows used to be deterministic. A user pressed a button, and data synced on a schedule. An agent decides for itself. It might pull support tickets, create a Salesforce opportunity, or take some action nobody scripted, and with the Model Context Protocol spreading, the range of possible actions keeps growing.

"The risk profile for AI agents increases exponentially once they start interacting with third-party systems," she said. Credentials, permissions, personally identifiable information. Agent Handler sits in the middle and manages the credentials, monitoring, and governance that most early agent startups skipped.

On culture, her view is blunt: you cannot change it after the hire. "Culture starts during the hiring process." Merge has passed on clearly talented candidates it judged too selfish or too political for the team, and it tells recruits up front that the company is in-person and high-commitment. When people leave, the culture is usually what they say they will miss.

Asked what she reads, she confessed to murder mysteries and history audiobooks, then spent a minute evangelizing Libby, the app that connects to public libraries. "It's the best app ever," she said. "There can be waitlists for popular books, but who cares? It's free." This is a CEO whose company is backed by Accel, NEA, and Addition.

Every CEO.com Podcast conversation ends the same way, on the belief that the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes. For Ding-Lopez, the chance was an associate role at Silver Lake's growth equity fund, one of two in her class. It brought her to San Francisco, put her around founders, and put her in the orbit of Adam Grosser, who launched and led the fund after years at Apple, and from whom she says she learned a tremendous amount.

"That experience completely changed the trajectory of my life," she said. "Without it, I probably would've stayed in New York working in private equity somewhere and potentially hating my life."

00:00:00 Introduction and Background
00:00:22 Founding Merge
00:00:54 Launching the Second Product
00:02:05 AI Agents and Security
00:03:36 Fundraising Journey
00:04:36 Early Customer Validation
00:05:10 Co-Founder's Background
00:06:00 A Day in the Life of a CEO
00:07:16 Technical Contributions
00:08:22 Future of AI
00:09:01 Economic Environment and Optimism
00:10:01 Company Culture and Hiring
00:11:56 Reading Habits and Recommendations
00:13:32 The Importance of Giving Chances
00:14:51 Closing Remarks

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and<00:03:14.920> that's<00:03:15.160> where<00:03:15.360> you<00:03:15.480> really<00:03:15.680> need<00:03:15.840> to<00:03:15.920> start<00:03:16.120> having<00:03:16.360> a<00:03:16.440> lot<00:03:16.560> of<00:03:16.680> monitoring.

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You<00:03:17.560> also<00:03:17.760> need<00:03:17.880> to<00:03:17.959> start<00:03:18.160> looking<00:03:18.480> for<00:03:18.680> any<00:03:18.880> potential<00:03:19.600> PII<00:03:20.080> that's<00:03:20.200> getting<00:03:20.440> passed<00:03:20.720> along.

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Um<00:03:21.600> you<00:03:21.680> also<00:03:21.880> need<00:03:22.040> to<00:03:22.120> be<00:03:22.480> configuring<00:03:23.040> rules<00:03:23.400> around<00:03:23.760> credential<00:03:24.200> management<00:03:24.760> and<00:03:24.920> how<00:03:25.080> those<00:03:25.239> credentials<00:03:25.640> are<00:03:25.760> shared<00:03:26.040> across<00:03:26.360> an<00:03:26.440> organization<00:03:26.959> as<00:03:27.120> well.

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So<00:03:27.800> that's<00:03:27.959> what<00:03:28.080> we're<00:03:28.239> really<00:03:28.480> thinking<00:03:28.800> about.<00:03:29.080> We<00:03:29.160> are<00:03:29.360> seeing<00:03:29.720> this<00:03:29.880> becoming<00:03:30.239> increasingly<00:03:30.840> more<00:03:31.040> an<00:03:31.160> issue<00:03:31.840> um<00:03:31.920> especially<00:03:32.320> since<00:03:32.560> agents<00:03:32.959> are<00:03:33.120> going<00:03:33.280> to<00:03:33.360> become

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more<00:03:33.720> popular<00:03:34.120> and<00:03:34.200> they<00:03:34.280> will<00:03:34.440> be<00:03:34.560> the<00:03:34.680> de<00:03:34.800> facto<00:03:35.080> way<00:03:35.200> of<00:03:35.320> working.

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And<00:03:37.040> you've<00:03:37.280> raised<00:03:37.560> an<00:03:37.680> incredible<00:03:38.800> uh<00:03:39.080> so<00:03:39.280> so<00:03:39.560> your<00:03:39.800> first<00:03:40.200> raise<00:03:40.920> that<00:03:41.120> at<00:03:41.200> least<00:03:41.440> that<00:03:41.519> we<00:03:41.600> could<00:03:41.760> find<00:03:41.959> was<00:03:42.160> 4.5<00:03:42.840> million<00:03:43.200> seed<00:03:43.519> round<00:03:44.600> and<00:03:44.760> then<00:03:45.040> you've

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done<00:03:45.400> a<00:03:45.440> $55<00:03:46.080> million<00:03:46.720> series<00:03:47.080> B.

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How<00:03:47.720> have<00:03:47.880> you<00:03:48.000> thought<00:03:48.239> about<00:03:48.600> raising<00:03:49.080> money?

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It<00:03:50.920> evolved<00:03:51.239> in<00:03:51.320> a<00:03:51.360> couple<00:03:51.680> different<00:03:51.959> ways.<00:03:52.239> So<00:03:52.320> we<00:03:52.400> actually<00:03:52.640> raised<00:03:52.840> series<00:03:53.200> A<00:03:53.320> in<00:03:53.400> the<00:03:53.480> middle<00:03:53.800> as<00:03:54.040> well.

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Uh<00:03:54.840> but<00:03:55.000> when<00:03:55.120> we<00:03:55.240> first<00:03:55.440> started<00:03:55.680> the<00:03:55.760> company,<00:03:56.400> we<00:03:56.800> knew<00:03:56.960> that<00:03:57.120> this<00:03:57.280> was<00:03:57.400> going<00:03:57.600> to<00:03:57.640> be<00:03:57.760> a<00:03:57.800> very<00:03:58.280> engineering<00:03:58.720> intensive<00:03:59.080> product.

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It<00:03:59.600> was<00:03:59.720> going<00:03:59.920> to<00:04:00.000> be<00:04:00.120> very,<00:04:00.480> very<00:04:00.800> difficult<00:04:01.240> to<00:04:01.320> build.

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Uh<00:04:02.120> so,<00:04:02.200> we<00:04:02.680> we<00:04:02.760> realized<00:04:03.080> pretty<00:04:03.280> early<00:04:03.560> on<00:04:03.880> even<00:04:04.120> though<00:04:04.240> Gil<00:04:04.480> and<00:04:04.600> I<00:04:04.720> could<00:04:04.960> code<00:04:05.240> and<00:04:05.320> we<00:04:05.400> could<00:04:05.520> bring<00:04:05.760> it<00:04:06.000> some<00:04:06.240> of<00:04:06.360> the<00:04:06.440> way<00:04:06.600> there,<00:04:07.360> we<00:04:07.480> would<00:04:07.600> need<00:04:07.760> a<00:04:07.840> bigger<00:04:08.280> team

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or<00:04:08.640> to<00:04:08.800> actually<00:04:09.200> be<00:04:09.320> able<00:04:09.480> to<00:04:09.560> onboard<00:04:09.880> customers<00:04:10.280> for<00:04:10.400> production<00:04:11.080> use<00:04:11.240> cases.

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Uh<00:04:12.240> so,<00:04:12.480> we<00:04:13.080> built<00:04:13.240> a<00:04:13.280> demo,<00:04:14.360> spent<00:04:14.520> around<00:04:14.720> a<00:04:14.760> month<00:04:14.920> and<00:04:15.000> a<00:04:15.040> half<00:04:15.320> on<00:04:15.480> it,<00:04:15.959> and<00:04:16.079> then<00:04:16.160> we<00:04:16.239> went<00:04:16.400> out<00:04:16.519> to<00:04:16.600> the<00:04:16.640> market<00:04:16.959> to<00:04:17.040> try<00:04:17.200> to<00:04:17.320> fundraise.

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Uh<00:04:18.280> so,<00:04:18.359> that<00:04:18.480> was<00:04:18.600> how<00:04:18.720> we<00:04:18.840> raised<00:04:19.040> our<00:04:19.160> seed.<00:04:19.880> And<00:04:20.280> I'm<00:04:20.400> really<00:04:20.600> glad<00:04:20.799> we<00:04:20.920> did<00:04:21.519> because<00:04:21.720> it<00:04:21.799> alleviated<00:04:22.120> a<00:04:22.160> lot<00:04:22.240> of<00:04:22.320> the<00:04:22.400> stress<00:04:22.600> when<00:04:22.720> it<00:04:22.800> came<00:04:23.000> to<00:04:23.240> hiring<00:04:23.640> really,<00:04:23.919> really

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great<00:04:24.320> engineers<00:04:25.200> um<00:04:25.320> and<00:04:25.440> also<00:04:25.640> being<00:04:25.840> able<00:04:26.000> to<00:04:26.120> feel<00:04:26.280> comfortable<00:04:26.720> onboarding<00:04:27.080> those<00:04:27.280> first<00:04:27.560> few<00:04:28.240> customers<00:04:28.800> and<00:04:28.919> feeling<00:04:29.120> confident<00:04:29.640> in<00:04:29.760> the<00:04:29.840> quality<00:04:30.120> of<00:04:30.200> the<00:04:30.240> product.

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At<00:04:31.960> what<00:04:32.120> point<00:04:32.280> in<00:04:32.360> the<00:04:32.400> company<00:04:32.720> did<00:04:32.840> you<00:04:32.919> realize,<00:04:33.200> "Hey,<00:04:33.320> we're<00:04:33.520> onto<00:04:33.760> something.

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This<00:04:34.320> is<00:04:34.440> really<00:04:34.640> going<00:04:34.760> to<00:04:34.800> work"?<00:04:36.360> When<00:04:36.680> we<00:04:37.040> onboarded<00:04:37.480> our<00:04:37.560> first<00:04:37.800> customers<00:04:38.200> that<00:04:38.280> were<00:04:38.400> having<00:04:38.640> a<00:04:38.720> really<00:04:39.000> bad<00:04:39.240> experience<00:04:39.919> and<00:04:40.040> they<00:04:40.120> still<00:04:40.400> wanted<00:04:40.640> to<00:04:40.760> use<00:04:40.880> the

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product.<00:04:41.720> So,<00:04:41.960> I<00:04:42.040> think<00:04:42.360> it's<00:04:42.560> seeing<00:04:42.880> companies<00:04:43.360> that<00:04:43.520> were<00:04:44.000> complaining<00:04:44.600> and<00:04:44.800> obviously<00:04:45.160> our<00:04:45.240> product<00:04:45.520> was<00:04:45.640> not<00:04:46.160> the<00:04:46.280> best<00:04:46.600> when<00:04:46.720> it<00:04:46.800> first<00:04:47.040> launched.

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Uh<00:04:48.040> seeing<00:04:48.240> how<00:04:48.360> they<00:04:48.480> really<00:04:48.760> wanted<00:04:49.000> to<00:04:49.080> make<00:04:49.240> it<00:04:49.360> work,<00:04:49.560> that<00:04:49.680> was<00:04:49.800> really<00:04:50.000> validating.

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Um<00:04:51.520> because<00:04:51.919> I<00:04:52.000> think<00:04:52.200> if<00:04:52.280> someone<00:04:52.560> just<00:04:52.720> immediately<00:04:53.040> gives<00:04:53.280> up<00:04:53.400> when<00:04:53.520> they<00:04:53.600> try<00:04:53.720> to<00:04:53.840> use<00:04:53.919> your<00:04:54.000> product<00:04:54.320> and<00:04:54.400> they<00:04:54.520> didn't<00:04:54.760> really<00:04:55.000> want<00:04:55.240> it<00:04:55.360> in<00:04:55.440> the<00:04:55.520> first<00:04:55.760> place.

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But<00:04:56.320> if<00:04:56.400> they<00:04:56.560> really<00:04:56.840> are<00:04:56.919> trying<00:04:57.120> to<00:04:57.200> work<00:04:57.360> with<00:04:57.520> you,<00:04:57.640> they<00:04:57.800> want<00:04:58.120> you<00:04:58.200> to<00:04:58.280> be<00:04:58.400> successful,<00:04:59.280> then<00:04:59.440> you<00:04:59.760> then<00:04:59.919> you<00:05:00.320> can<00:05:00.520> see<00:05:00.880> probably<00:05:01.240> have<00:05:01.360> some<00:05:01.520> form<00:05:01.800> of<00:05:01.919> product

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market<00:05:02.440> fit.<00:05:03.120> Yeah.<00:05:03.840> Yeah,<00:05:04.280> that<00:05:04.440> makes<00:05:04.640> sense.

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Tell<00:05:05.080> me<00:05:05.160> about<00:05:05.360> your<00:05:05.440> co-founder<00:05:06.040> and<00:05:06.200> you<00:05:06.280> guys<00:05:06.520> founded<00:05:06.840> this<00:05:06.960> company<00:05:07.360> together.

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Uh<00:05:08.440> how<00:05:08.600> did<00:05:08.760> all<00:05:08.880> that<00:05:09.040> come<00:05:09.200> together?<00:05:10.640> So,<00:05:10.880> we<00:05:10.960> went<00:05:11.080> to<00:05:11.160> college<00:05:11.440> together.

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Uh<00:05:12.080> so,<00:05:12.160> we've<00:05:12.280> known<00:05:12.440> each<00:05:12.560> other<00:05:12.720> since<00:05:12.880> when<00:05:13.000> we<00:05:13.080> were<00:05:13.200> 18.<00:05:13.680> We<00:05:13.800> were<00:05:13.840> in<00:05:13.919> the<00:05:14.000> CS<00:05:14.280> department<00:05:14.720> at<00:05:14.800> Columbia,<00:05:15.280> which<00:05:15.640> at<00:05:15.760> the<00:05:15.880> time<00:05:16.080> was<00:05:16.200> pretty<00:05:16.400> small.

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So,<00:05:16.880> everyone<00:05:17.200> knew<00:05:17.440> each<00:05:17.600> other.<00:05:18.440> Uh<00:05:18.560> so,<00:05:18.720> we<00:05:18.840> were<00:05:18.919> in<00:05:18.960> a<00:05:19.000> lot<00:05:19.120> of<00:05:19.200> the<00:05:19.280> same<00:05:19.480> classes,<00:05:19.919> group<00:05:20.120> projects,<00:05:20.520> and<00:05:20.600> we<00:05:20.720> also<00:05:20.960> were<00:05:21.120> on<00:05:21.240> Engineering<00:05:21.720> Student<00:05:22.000> Council<00:05:22.360> together.

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So,<00:05:23.240> we<00:05:23.320> had<00:05:23.440> really<00:05:23.680> gotten<00:05:23.919> to<00:05:24.000> know<00:05:24.160> each<00:05:24.320> other<00:05:24.520> socially<00:05:24.960> and<00:05:25.040> then<00:05:25.160> also<00:05:25.520> in<00:05:25.600> like<00:05:25.840> a<00:05:26.880> kind<00:05:27.000> of<00:05:27.080> like<00:05:27.520> team<00:05:27.840> project<00:05:28.440> form.

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Um<00:05:29.560> and<00:05:29.680> when<00:05:29.800> I<00:05:29.840> moved<00:05:30.000> to<00:05:30.080> San<00:05:30.200> Francisco,<00:05:30.640> he<00:05:30.840> had<00:05:30.919> already<00:05:31.120> been<00:05:31.240> living<00:05:31.480> there.

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Uh<00:05:32.240> so,<00:05:32.360> he<00:05:32.480> helped<00:05:32.640> me<00:05:32.720> find<00:05:32.919> my<00:05:33.040> first<00:05:33.360> car,<00:05:33.720> my<00:05:33.840> first<00:05:34.040> apartment.

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And<00:05:34.800> we<00:05:34.880> just<00:05:35.040> kept<00:05:35.200> in<00:05:35.280> touch<00:05:35.480> throughout<00:05:35.680> the<00:05:35.760> years.<00:05:36.480> And<00:05:36.880> we<00:05:37.080> would<00:05:37.200> get<00:05:37.320> dinner,<00:05:37.680> talk<00:05:37.919> a<00:05:37.960> lot<00:05:38.080> about<00:05:38.320> work,<00:05:38.680> and<00:05:39.520> um<00:05:39.720> yeah,<00:05:39.880> naturally<00:05:40.360> this<00:05:40.520> problem<00:05:40.880> of<00:05:41.000> integrations

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was<00:05:41.640> both<00:05:42.000> coming<00:05:42.280> up<00:05:42.440> at<00:05:42.600> both<00:05:42.800> of<00:05:42.880> our<00:05:42.960> companies,<00:05:43.520> and<00:05:43.880> we<00:05:44.000> realized<00:05:44.440> we<00:05:44.600> there<00:05:44.760> might<00:05:44.880> be<00:05:45.000> something<00:05:45.320> there.

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But<00:05:45.919> we'd<00:05:46.080> always<00:05:46.280> known<00:05:46.440> each<00:05:46.560> other<00:05:46.720> for<00:05:46.880> a<00:05:46.919> really<00:05:47.160> long<00:05:47.480> time,<00:05:47.760> and<00:05:47.840> I<00:05:47.880> think<00:05:48.040> that<00:05:48.160> was<00:05:48.280> really<00:05:48.480> lucky<00:05:48.960> so<00:05:49.160> that<00:05:49.280> our<00:05:49.360> company<00:05:49.640> was<00:05:49.800> built<00:05:50.040> on<00:05:50.120> a<00:05:50.200> foundation<00:05:50.600> of<00:05:50.720> trust.

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And<00:05:51.440> it's<00:05:51.520> just<00:05:51.720> really<00:05:51.960> fun<00:05:52.200> working<00:05:52.520> with<00:05:52.680> someone<00:05:52.960> who<00:05:53.120> is<00:05:53.240> one<00:05:53.360> of<00:05:53.440> your<00:05:53.560> best<00:05:53.760> friends.

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Yeah,<00:05:55.000> that's<00:05:55.280> awesome.<00:05:56.160> Tell<00:05:56.320> me,<00:05:57.200> uh<00:05:57.280> what<00:05:57.440> does<00:05:57.560> a<00:05:57.600> typical<00:05:58.000> day<00:05:58.200> look<00:05:58.400> like<00:05:58.600> for<00:05:58.760> you?

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It's<00:06:00.920> chaos.<00:06:02.000> Uh<00:06:02.080> so,<00:06:02.219> [laughter]<00:06:02.480> I<00:06:02.600> wake<00:06:02.960> up,<00:06:03.480> I<00:06:03.560> go<00:06:03.680> to<00:06:03.760> the<00:06:03.880> gym<00:06:04.200> every<00:06:04.440> day.

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I<00:06:04.840> think<00:06:05.000> that's<00:06:05.200> really<00:06:05.400> important<00:06:05.800> for<00:06:05.960> me<00:06:06.120> to<00:06:06.280> just<00:06:06.440> be<00:06:06.520> able<00:06:06.640> to<00:06:06.720> like<00:06:06.840> reset<00:06:07.280> and<00:06:07.360> like<00:06:07.560> set<00:06:07.760> some<00:06:07.880> time<00:06:08.080> for<00:06:08.200> myself.

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Um<00:06:09.280> and<00:06:09.400> then<00:06:09.520> after<00:06:10.080> go<00:06:10.200> to<00:06:10.320> work,<00:06:10.840> immediately<00:06:11.240> try<00:06:11.440> to<00:06:11.520> respond<00:06:11.800> to<00:06:11.920> all<00:06:12.160> emails,<00:06:12.560> addressing<00:06:12.920> all<00:06:13.080> slacks,<00:06:13.440> and<00:06:13.560> also<00:06:13.760> catching<00:06:14.080> up<00:06:14.200> on<00:06:14.320> reading<00:06:14.800> from<00:06:15.000> the<00:06:15.080> night

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before<00:06:15.680> that<00:06:15.840> I<00:06:15.920> might<00:06:16.080> not<00:06:16.200> have<00:06:16.320> had<00:06:16.480> the<00:06:16.560> head<00:06:16.720> space<00:06:17.040> to<00:06:17.440> to<00:06:17.560> do.

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Um<00:06:18.320> I<00:06:18.360> also<00:06:18.600> try<00:06:18.720> to<00:06:18.880> allocate<00:06:19.280> time<00:06:19.480> in<00:06:19.520> the<00:06:19.600> mornings<00:06:20.000> for<00:06:20.120> like<00:06:20.400> reading<00:06:20.800> and<00:06:20.919> just<00:06:21.120> like<00:06:21.240> catching<00:06:21.520> up<00:06:21.640> on<00:06:21.720> the<00:06:21.800> industry,<00:06:22.480> really<00:06:22.720> just<00:06:22.840> making<00:06:23.080> sure<00:06:23.240> that<00:06:23.400> I<00:06:23.520> feel

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like<00:06:24.200> I'm<00:06:24.840> caught<00:06:25.080> up<00:06:25.280> in<00:06:25.400> the<00:06:25.480> things<00:06:25.640> that<00:06:25.760> I<00:06:25.840> need<00:06:25.960> to<00:06:26.040> be<00:06:26.120> caught<00:06:26.320> up<00:06:26.480> on.

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Um<00:06:27.520> we<00:06:27.640> have<00:06:27.919> a<00:06:28.000> lot<00:06:28.200> of<00:06:28.280> meetings<00:06:28.560> during<00:06:28.800> the<00:06:28.880> day,<00:06:29.040> and<00:06:29.160> they<00:06:29.240> usually<00:06:29.480> go<00:06:29.600> on<00:06:29.720> until<00:06:29.960> like<00:06:30.160> 6<00:06:30.760> ex-<00:06:31.080> six<00:06:31.320> or<00:06:31.400> seven<00:06:31.680> externally.

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Um<00:06:32.840> and<00:06:32.960> then<00:06:33.080> after<00:06:33.320> that,<00:06:33.520> it<00:06:33.560> becomes<00:06:33.880> more<00:06:33.960> like<00:06:34.200> IC<00:06:34.480> work<00:06:34.720> where<00:06:34.880> I<00:06:35.080> again<00:06:35.400> catch<00:06:35.720> up<00:06:36.000> on<00:06:36.200> like<00:06:36.400> things<00:06:36.600> that<00:06:36.760> I<00:06:37.000> wasn't<00:06:37.240> able<00:06:37.400> to<00:06:37.480> get<00:06:37.680> to<00:06:37.800> throughout<00:06:38.080> the<00:06:38.120> day<00:06:38.640> that

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needed<00:06:39.120> needed<00:06:39.360> a<00:06:39.400> little<00:06:39.560> bit<00:06:39.680> more<00:06:39.800> deep<00:06:40.840> deep<00:06:41.400> um<00:06:42.000> deep<00:06:42.240> work<00:06:42.480> like<00:06:43.040> sometimes<00:06:43.640> set<00:06:43.800> aside.

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Um<00:06:45.360> and<00:06:45.440> then<00:06:45.919> I<00:06:46.000> code<00:06:46.400> at<00:06:46.520> night,<00:06:46.760> too.

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So,<00:06:47.360> it's<00:06:47.480> really<00:06:47.680> helpful<00:06:47.960> for<00:06:48.080> me<00:06:48.160> to<00:06:48.240> be<00:06:48.320> able<00:06:48.440> to<00:06:48.560> onboard<00:06:48.919> on<00:06:49.040> to<00:06:49.120> what's<00:06:49.280> going<00:06:49.520> on<00:06:49.600> in<00:06:49.680> the<00:06:49.720> company<00:06:50.040> by<00:06:50.160> actually<00:06:50.440> getting<00:06:50.640> to<00:06:50.720> the<00:06:50.800> code<00:06:51.000> base<00:06:51.280> and<00:06:51.360> just<00:06:51.520> seeing

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what's<00:06:51.880> happening<00:06:52.200> there,<00:06:52.360> as<00:06:52.480> well.<00:06:54.040> That's<00:06:54.280> aw-<00:06:54.480> So,<00:06:54.680> do<00:06:54.760> you<00:06:54.880> like<00:06:55.080> code<00:06:55.320> for<00:06:55.480> fun,<00:06:56.040> or<00:06:56.400> are<00:06:56.600> you<00:06:56.760> kind<00:06:56.960> of<00:06:57.040> like<00:06:57.720> uh<00:06:57.800> cuz<00:06:58.120> cuz<00:06:58.280> it<00:06:58.440> it's<00:06:58.880> it<00:06:59.040> is<00:06:59.160> remarkable<00:06:59.720> like

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it<00:07:00.040> sounds<00:07:00.280> like<00:07:00.400> you<00:07:00.480> guys<00:07:00.640> are<00:07:00.760> both<00:07:01.000> technical<00:07:01.560> co-founders.

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Um<00:07:03.640> so,<00:07:03.800> you<00:07:03.919> have<00:07:04.120> a<00:07:04.200> lot<00:07:04.720> of<00:07:05.000> deep<00:07:06.000> uh<00:07:06.080> experience<00:07:07.160> and,<00:07:07.800> you<00:07:07.880> know,<00:07:08.080> intelligence<00:07:08.680> behind<00:07:09.640> the<00:07:09.760> product<00:07:10.480> itself.

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So,<00:07:11.160> are<00:07:11.320> you<00:07:11.440> getting<00:07:11.680> in<00:07:11.800> there<00:07:12.000> and<00:07:12.080> actually<00:07:12.360> like<00:07:12.560> pushing<00:07:13.880> uh<00:07:13.960> push<00:07:14.240> in<00:07:14.480> all<00:07:14.600> that<00:07:14.760> type<00:07:14.919> of<00:07:15.040> stuff?

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That's<00:07:15.400> That's<00:07:15.600> amazing.<00:07:16.440> Yeah,<00:07:16.840> I<00:07:17.000> am.

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Um<00:07:17.640> so,<00:07:17.760> technically,<00:07:18.200> I'm<00:07:18.280> actually<00:07:18.560> the<00:07:18.680> non-technical<00:07:19.320> co-founder.

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So,<00:07:20.200> I<00:07:20.280> never<00:07:20.600> worked<00:07:20.919> as<00:07:21.040> a<00:07:21.080> software<00:07:21.440> engineer<00:07:21.760> in<00:07:21.840> a<00:07:21.880> professional<00:07:22.360> environment<00:07:22.840> other<00:07:23.000> than<00:07:23.240> a<00:07:23.320> few<00:07:23.520> internships.

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I<00:07:24.720> actually<00:07:24.960> went<00:07:25.120> into<00:07:25.360> banking<00:07:25.720> right<00:07:25.880> after<00:07:26.080> college<00:07:26.480> and<00:07:26.560> then<00:07:27.040> um<00:07:27.240> growth<00:07:27.480> equity<00:07:27.919> before<00:07:28.240> moving<00:07:28.480> into<00:07:28.600> like<00:07:28.760> a<00:07:28.800> finance<00:07:29.160> and<00:07:29.240> operating<00:07:29.680> role.

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So,<00:07:30.400> never<00:07:30.919> got<00:07:31.240> to<00:07:31.400> code<00:07:31.800> in<00:07:31.919> like<00:07:32.200> a<00:07:32.600> professional<00:07:33.080> setting.

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But,<00:07:33.840> yeah,<00:07:34.120> I<00:07:34.200> think<00:07:34.440> one<00:07:34.600> of<00:07:34.680> the<00:07:34.800> one<00:07:34.960> of<00:07:35.000> the<00:07:35.120> things<00:07:35.320> that<00:07:35.400> was<00:07:35.480> pretty<00:07:35.680> important<00:07:36.080> for<00:07:36.200> when<00:07:36.320> we<00:07:36.400> started<00:07:36.720> the<00:07:36.760> company<00:07:37.160> was<00:07:37.360> Gil<00:07:37.520> investing<00:07:37.960> a<00:07:38.000> lot<00:07:38.200> in<00:07:38.280> me<00:07:38.480> to<00:07:38.919> become

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a<00:07:40.040> software<00:07:40.360> engineer<00:07:40.720> so<00:07:40.800> that<00:07:40.960> I<00:07:41.000> could<00:07:41.160> help<00:07:41.600> build<00:07:41.800> the<00:07:41.880> road<00:07:42.040> map<00:07:42.200> along,<00:07:42.600> that<00:07:42.800> I<00:07:42.840> could<00:07:43.000> contribute<00:07:43.400> to<00:07:43.440> the<00:07:43.520> company,<00:07:43.880> that<00:07:44.040> I<00:07:44.080> could<00:07:44.240> also<00:07:44.480> really<00:07:44.720> have<00:07:44.840> a<00:07:44.880> deep

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understanding<00:07:45.640> of<00:07:45.720> the<00:07:45.800> code<00:07:46.040> base<00:07:46.280> and<00:07:46.360> what<00:07:46.480> was<00:07:46.640> happening.

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So<00:07:47.520> especially<00:07:47.880> when<00:07:48.000> it<00:07:48.080> came<00:07:48.360> to<00:07:48.600> the<00:07:48.720> second<00:07:49.040> product,<00:07:49.720> we<00:07:49.800> didn't<00:07:49.960> have<00:07:50.080> a<00:07:50.160> lot<00:07:50.320> of<00:07:50.400> resources<00:07:50.960> and<00:07:51.040> so<00:07:51.160> Gil<00:07:51.400> and<00:07:51.560> I<00:07:51.720> and<00:07:51.880> one<00:07:52.080> engineer<00:07:52.480> built<00:07:52.680> the<00:07:52.760> whole<00:07:52.920> product.

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Um<00:07:53.880> it<00:07:53.960> was<00:07:54.080> a<00:07:54.120> lot<00:07:54.360> of<00:07:54.480> work,<00:07:54.760> but<00:07:54.880> it<00:07:55.120> really<00:07:55.360> helped<00:07:55.640> me<00:07:55.840> understand<00:07:56.400> what<00:07:56.560> we<00:07:56.640> were<00:07:56.760> building<00:07:57.160> and<00:07:57.280> also<00:07:57.520> get<00:07:57.680> opinions<00:07:58.120> around<00:07:58.480> it<00:07:58.800> and<00:07:58.880> make<00:07:59.000> it<00:07:59.080> a<00:07:59.120> little<00:07:59.280> bit<00:07:59.440> easier

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for<00:07:59.840> me<00:07:59.960> to<00:08:00.080> contribute<00:08:00.520> to<00:08:00.640> answering<00:08:00.960> questions<00:08:01.440> as<00:08:01.600> we<00:08:01.680> started<00:08:01.960> onboarding<00:08:02.360> more<00:08:02.520> engineers<00:08:02.880> to<00:08:02.960> the<00:08:03.080> team.

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Um<00:08:04.480> I<00:08:04.560> think<00:08:04.760> it's<00:08:04.880> a<00:08:04.920> really<00:08:05.160> helpful<00:08:05.440> part<00:08:05.680> of<00:08:05.720> data<00:08:05.920> collection<00:08:06.600> and<00:08:07.320> uh<00:08:08.240> a<00:08:08.320> lot<00:08:08.480> of<00:08:08.560> times<00:08:08.800> like<00:08:08.960> you<00:08:09.040> can<00:08:09.160> hear,<00:08:09.520> you<00:08:09.600> can<00:08:09.760> read<00:08:10.040> things,<00:08:10.320> but<00:08:10.440> it's<00:08:10.520> not<00:08:10.640> quite<00:08:10.840> the

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same<00:08:11.040> as<00:08:11.120> actually<00:08:11.560> doing.<00:08:12.640> Yeah.

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Yeah,<00:08:14.080> uh<00:08:14.560> that's<00:08:14.760> incredible.<00:08:15.400> I<00:08:15.480> think<00:08:15.680> that's<00:08:15.880> a<00:08:15.919> huge<00:08:16.200> advantage.

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So<00:08:17.400> where<00:08:17.520> do<00:08:17.640> you<00:08:17.760> think<00:08:18.000> AI<00:08:18.240> is<00:08:18.360> going?<00:08:19.040> Like<00:08:19.480> what<00:08:19.720> what<00:08:19.840> does<00:08:20.000> it<00:08:20.120> all<00:08:20.280> this<00:08:20.480> look<00:08:20.640> like<00:08:20.840> 5-10<00:08:21.280> years<00:08:21.520> from<00:08:21.640> now?

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I<00:08:22.960> think<00:08:23.240> there's<00:08:23.480> still<00:08:23.720> way<00:08:23.919> more<00:08:24.080> to<00:08:24.200> go.

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I<00:08:24.720> think<00:08:24.880> we've<00:08:25.040> probably<00:08:25.360> just<00:08:25.520> started<00:08:25.800> in<00:08:25.880> the<00:08:25.960> beginning.<00:08:26.400> I<00:08:26.480> know<00:08:26.680> it<00:08:26.760> feels<00:08:27.040> like<00:08:27.240> we're<00:08:27.400> all<00:08:27.600> talking<00:08:27.919> about<00:08:28.120> AI,<00:08:28.520> there's<00:08:28.720> blah<00:08:28.919> blah<00:08:29.040> blah<00:08:29.200> blah,<00:08:29.520> but<00:08:29.840> I<00:08:29.919> just

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think<00:08:30.280> there's<00:08:30.480> way<00:08:30.680> more<00:08:30.919> impact<00:08:31.320> that<00:08:31.440> AI<00:08:31.640> can<00:08:31.800> have.

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Um<00:08:32.640> people<00:08:32.840> are<00:08:32.919> still<00:08:33.120> nervous<00:08:33.360> about<00:08:33.520> using<00:08:33.800> AI<00:08:34.000> in<00:08:34.080> their<00:08:34.159> day-to-day<00:08:34.599> work<00:08:34.880> and<00:08:35.000> some<00:08:35.120> companies<00:08:35.479> are<00:08:35.560> still<00:08:35.760> banning<00:08:36.200> AI<00:08:36.560> in<00:08:36.760> their<00:08:37.560> um<00:08:37.800> in<00:08:37.919> their<00:08:38.159> laptops<00:08:38.719> and

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their<00:08:38.960> software.<00:08:39.680> And<00:08:39.840> so<00:08:40.080> I<00:08:40.320> I<00:08:40.440> think<00:08:40.640> there's<00:08:40.880> just<00:08:41.080> way<00:08:41.280> more<00:08:41.919> room<00:08:42.240> and<00:08:42.320> we're<00:08:42.440> not<00:08:42.680> even<00:08:42.880> really<00:08:43.159> fully<00:08:44.440> utilizing<00:08:45.080> it<00:08:45.160> to<00:08:45.240> its<00:08:45.360> full<00:08:45.560> extent.

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I<00:08:46.280> also<00:08:46.520> think<00:08:46.680> there<00:08:46.800> are<00:08:46.880> a<00:08:46.920> few<00:08:47.120> barriers<00:08:47.600> to<00:08:47.920> utilizing<00:08:48.440> AI<00:08:48.680> fully<00:08:49.040> and<00:08:49.240> part<00:08:49.440> of<00:08:49.520> that<00:08:49.720> is<00:08:49.839> integrations,<00:08:50.400> which<00:08:50.560> is<00:08:50.680> why<00:08:50.880> I'm<00:08:51.000> so<00:08:51.160> excited<00:08:51.640> about<00:08:52.160> what<00:08:52.280> our<00:08:52.400> product

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really<00:08:52.880> offers<00:08:53.200> and<00:08:53.280> how<00:08:53.400> we<00:08:53.480> can<00:08:53.600> help<00:08:54.200> um<00:08:54.240> help<00:08:54.520> unlock<00:08:55.000> a<00:08:55.040> lot<00:08:55.160> of<00:08:55.240> these<00:08:55.400> cases<00:08:55.720> that<00:08:55.839> are<00:08:56.880> are<00:08:57.200> available,<00:08:57.839> but<00:08:58.000> require<00:08:58.400> a<00:08:58.440> lot<00:08:58.640> of<00:08:58.960> a<00:08:59.000> lot<00:08:59.160> of<00:08:59.240> additional<00:08:59.640> work<00:08:59.880> too.

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How<00:09:01.240> do<00:09:01.320> you<00:09:01.440> feel<00:09:01.560> about<00:09:01.800> like<00:09:01.960> the<00:09:02.080> economic<00:09:02.640> environment?

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Obviously<00:09:03.440> it's<00:09:03.760> been<00:09:03.920> a<00:09:03.960> little<00:09:04.680> um<00:09:06.080> chaotic<00:09:06.920> at<00:09:07.000> least<00:09:07.320> for<00:09:07.440> the<00:09:07.520> first<00:09:07.760> half<00:09:07.920> of<00:09:08.000> the<00:09:08.080> year<00:09:08.360> with<00:09:08.480> like<00:09:08.640> the<00:09:08.720> tariffs<00:09:09.080> and<00:09:09.200> stuff.

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I<00:09:09.440> don't<00:09:09.560> know<00:09:09.640> if<00:09:09.680> that<00:09:09.800> affected<00:09:10.240> you<00:09:10.320> at<00:09:10.440> all.<00:09:11.040> How<00:09:11.160> are<00:09:11.280> you<00:09:11.400> feeling<00:09:11.720> about<00:09:11.920> like<00:09:12.120> the<00:09:12.240> current<00:09:13.080> state<00:09:13.440> of<00:09:13.560> things<00:09:13.920> and<00:09:14.040> going<00:09:14.280> into<00:09:14.480> 2026?

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I'm<00:09:16.280> very<00:09:16.520> optimistic,<00:09:17.120> but<00:09:17.240> I'm<00:09:17.360> also<00:09:17.560> usually<00:09:17.880> optimistic.

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Um<00:09:19.160> I<00:09:19.200> just<00:09:19.320> find<00:09:19.480> it's<00:09:19.680> easier<00:09:20.160> for<00:09:20.360> me<00:09:20.480> to<00:09:20.560> feel<00:09:20.880> optimistic.

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I<00:09:21.920> just<00:09:22.080> think<00:09:22.240> there's<00:09:22.360> a<00:09:22.440> lot<00:09:22.600> of<00:09:22.680> opportunity<00:09:23.280> and<00:09:23.400> I<00:09:23.480> think<00:09:23.680> that<00:09:23.839> there's<00:09:24.000> a<00:09:24.040> lot<00:09:24.320> of<00:09:24.800> budget<00:09:25.160> for<00:09:26.200> um<00:09:26.360> like<00:09:26.800> experimentation<00:09:27.560> right<00:09:27.720> now,<00:09:27.920> especially<00:09:28.280> in<00:09:28.320> the<00:09:28.400> tech

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industry.<00:09:29.280> A<00:09:29.320> lot<00:09:29.480> of<00:09:29.520> companies<00:09:29.839> are<00:09:29.920> really<00:09:30.160> eager<00:09:30.400> to<00:09:30.520> see<00:09:30.680> what<00:09:30.920> like<00:09:31.160> what<00:09:31.360> new<00:09:31.480> companies<00:09:31.800> pop<00:09:32.080> up,<00:09:32.280> different<00:09:32.520> use<00:09:32.720> cases.

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Um<00:09:33.960> people<00:09:34.240> also<00:09:34.480> want<00:09:34.600> to<00:09:34.680> see<00:09:34.839> how<00:09:34.960> their<00:09:35.160> team<00:09:35.320> members<00:09:35.560> can<00:09:35.680> become<00:09:35.920> more<00:09:36.040> productive.

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Obviously<00:09:37.240> it<00:09:37.320> does<00:09:37.520> impact<00:09:37.960> what<00:09:38.080> head<00:09:38.200> count<00:09:38.440> numbers<00:09:38.680> look<00:09:38.880> like,<00:09:39.120> but<00:09:39.280> I<00:09:39.360> think<00:09:39.600> that<00:09:39.880> overall,<00:09:40.560> it<00:09:40.640> just<00:09:40.800> makes<00:09:40.960> us<00:09:41.080> feel<00:09:41.160> there's<00:09:41.320> better<00:09:41.520> businesses<00:09:42.000> overall.

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There's<00:09:42.600> more<00:09:42.760> companies<00:09:43.080> that<00:09:43.200> can<00:09:43.320> start<00:09:43.720> get<00:09:43.920> get<00:09:44.080> created.

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There's<00:09:44.960> more<00:09:45.120> economic<00:09:45.600> opportunity<00:09:46.080> for<00:09:46.240> everyone.<00:09:47.080> And<00:09:47.400> it<00:09:47.560> is<00:09:47.720> scary<00:09:48.080> at<00:09:48.240> first.

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It<00:09:48.600> definitely<00:09:48.920> is<00:09:49.040> a<00:09:49.120> shift,<00:09:49.520> but<00:09:49.720> I<00:09:49.920> think<00:09:50.200> overall<00:09:50.560> it's<00:09:50.680> going<00:09:50.840> to<00:09:50.920> change<00:09:51.160> a<00:09:51.200> lot<00:09:51.360> of<00:09:51.440> things<00:09:51.640> for<00:09:51.720> the<00:09:51.800> better.

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Yeah.<00:09:53.160> Yeah,<00:09:53.400> I<00:09:53.480> think<00:09:53.720> you're<00:09:53.840> right.<00:09:54.680> Um,<00:09:55.240> give<00:09:55.520> me<00:09:55.640> a<00:09:55.680> sense<00:09:55.920> for<00:09:56.040> how<00:09:56.160> you<00:09:56.320> felt<00:09:56.520> about<00:09:56.840> culture<00:09:57.640> and<00:09:58.000> how<00:09:58.200> that<00:09:58.400> culture<00:09:58.720> has<00:09:58.840> evolved<00:09:59.480> as<00:09:59.640> you<00:09:59.800> scaled.

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We<00:10:01.240> think<00:10:01.440> really<00:10:01.640> deeply<00:10:02.000> about<00:10:02.320> it.<00:10:02.560> It's<00:10:02.760> very,<00:10:03.040> very<00:10:03.280> important<00:10:03.640> in<00:10:03.760> our<00:10:03.880> hiring<00:10:04.200> process.

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My<00:10:05.200> hot<00:10:05.440> take<00:10:05.680> is<00:10:05.800> that<00:10:05.920> you<00:10:06.040> actually<00:10:06.360> can't<00:10:07.120> change<00:10:07.640> culture,<00:10:08.120> like<00:10:08.360> from,<00:10:08.840> from<00:10:09.120> once<00:10:09.400> you<00:10:09.520> hire<00:10:09.760> someone,<00:10:10.080> you<00:10:10.160> can't<00:10:10.400> change<00:10:10.600> who<00:10:10.680> they<00:10:10.880> are.

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And<00:10:11.492> so,<00:10:11.665> it<00:10:11.837> really<00:10:12.009> starts<00:10:12.182> with<00:10:12.354> how<00:10:12.526> you,<00:10:12.698> what<00:10:12.871> your<00:10:13.043> hiring<00:10:13.215> process<00:10:13.388> looks<00:10:13.560> like.

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So<00:10:13.840> when<00:10:13.960> it<00:10:14.040> comes<00:10:14.200> to<00:10:14.240> the<00:10:14.320> hiring<00:10:14.600> process,<00:10:15.280> that's<00:10:15.480> where<00:10:15.600> we<00:10:15.720> really<00:10:16.040> evaluate<00:10:16.520> culture<00:10:16.840> fit<00:10:17.360> and<00:10:17.520> culture<00:10:17.960> add<00:10:18.200> and<00:10:18.320> whether<00:10:18.520> someone<00:10:18.760> is<00:10:18.840> going<00:10:19.080> to<00:10:19.240> really<00:10:19.520> be

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helpful<00:10:20.160> for<00:10:20.840> the<00:10:20.920> team,<00:10:21.480> the<00:10:21.560> environment,<00:10:22.120> the<00:10:22.200> business,<00:10:22.520> and<00:10:22.600> really<00:10:22.840> add<00:10:23.080> to<00:10:23.240> what<00:10:23.440> the<00:10:23.640> group<00:10:23.840> dynamic<00:10:24.360> is<00:10:24.560> like.

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Um,<00:10:25.600> so<00:10:26.040> our<00:10:26.280> team<00:10:26.520> is<00:10:26.680> very,<00:10:27.000> very,<00:10:27.280> very<00:10:27.600> nice.

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Everyone<00:10:28.480> is<00:10:28.600> super<00:10:28.840> friendly.<00:10:29.200> Everyone<00:10:29.520> really<00:10:29.760> tries<00:10:30.040> to<00:10:30.120> help<00:10:30.240> each<00:10:30.360> other<00:10:30.600> out.

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Um,<00:10:31.480> but<00:10:31.840> everybody<00:10:32.200> really<00:10:32.560> works<00:10:32.920> hard.

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Uh,<00:10:33.600> like<00:10:33.760> when<00:10:33.880> it<00:10:33.960> comes<00:10:34.240> to<00:10:34.560> like<00:10:34.720> the<00:10:34.800> business<00:10:35.320> and<00:10:35.400> making<00:10:35.600> sure<00:10:35.720> everyone<00:10:35.920> is<00:10:36.000> successful<00:10:36.560> and<00:10:36.640> also<00:10:36.840> just<00:10:37.000> making<00:10:37.240> sure<00:10:37.360> that<00:10:37.480> like<00:10:37.600> when<00:10:37.680> it<00:10:37.760> comes<00:10:37.920> to<00:10:38.040> hours,

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everyone<00:10:39.160> is<00:10:39.320> a<00:10:39.400> team<00:10:39.640> player.<00:10:40.200> That's<00:10:40.440> all<00:10:40.600> very,<00:10:40.839> very<00:10:41.080> cohesive,<00:10:41.600> and<00:10:41.720> I<00:10:41.760> think<00:10:41.960> just<00:10:42.120> having<00:10:42.440> one<00:10:42.600> team<00:10:42.800> member<00:10:43.000> who<00:10:43.120> is<00:10:43.240> not<00:10:43.400> aligned<00:10:43.680> with<00:10:43.760> that<00:10:43.920> can<00:10:44.040> really<00:10:44.240> deteriorate

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the<00:10:45.240> mission<00:10:45.880> and<00:10:46.720> the<00:10:46.960> feeling<00:10:47.360> of<00:10:47.480> collaboration<00:10:48.080> in<00:10:48.160> the<00:10:48.240> organization.

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So<00:10:49.320> we're<00:10:49.440> very,<00:10:49.760> very<00:10:49.960> upfront<00:10:50.280> about<00:10:50.520> the<00:10:50.600> fact<00:10:50.800> that<00:10:50.960> like,<00:10:51.120> yes,<00:10:51.320> you<00:10:51.440> do<00:10:51.560> have<00:10:51.680> to<00:10:51.760> put<00:10:51.880> a<00:10:51.920> lot<00:10:52.040> of<00:10:52.160> hours<00:10:52.440> in<00:10:52.520> here.

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Yes,<00:10:53.520> um,<00:10:53.880> you<00:10:54.200> are<00:10:54.440> going<00:10:54.640> to<00:10:54.720> have<00:10:54.839> to<00:10:54.880> be<00:10:55.000> committed.

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Like<00:10:55.560> we<00:10:55.720> want<00:10:56.000> people<00:10:56.240> to<00:10:56.360> join<00:10:56.600> here<00:10:56.760> for<00:10:56.920> a<00:10:56.960> long<00:10:57.240> time.

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Like<00:10:58.000> it's<00:10:58.120> not<00:10:58.320> meant<00:10:58.480> to<00:10:58.600> be<00:10:58.760> like<00:10:58.920> a<00:10:59.000> one-year<00:10:59.360> stint.

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Like<00:10:59.760> we<00:10:59.880> really<00:11:00.080> want<00:11:00.280> people<00:11:00.560> who<00:11:00.720> are<00:11:01.040> fully<00:11:01.320> invested<00:11:01.720> in<00:11:01.800> the<00:11:01.880> business.

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And<00:11:02.320> that's<00:11:02.480> also<00:11:02.720> why<00:11:03.240> you<00:11:03.320> have<00:11:03.400> to<00:11:03.480> come<00:11:03.640> to<00:11:03.760> the<00:11:03.880> office<00:11:04.160> every<00:11:04.400> day.

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Uh,<00:11:05.000> we<00:11:05.120> are<00:11:05.240> an<00:11:05.360> in-person<00:11:05.960> culture.<00:11:06.560> Uh,<00:11:06.720> you<00:11:06.800> can't<00:11:07.360> work<00:11:07.440> here<00:11:07.640> remotely<00:11:08.080> unless<00:11:08.360> you're<00:11:08.520> on<00:11:08.640> like<00:11:08.800> one<00:11:09.040> select<00:11:09.440> team.

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Um,<00:11:10.280> it's<00:11:10.440> very,<00:11:10.720> very<00:11:11.040> cohesive<00:11:11.480> in<00:11:11.560> that<00:11:11.720> way.

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Um,<00:11:12.680> so<00:11:12.839> it<00:11:13.000> does<00:11:13.280> create<00:11:13.520> a<00:11:13.560> lot<00:11:13.720> of<00:11:13.800> sacrifices<00:11:14.360> when<00:11:14.440> it<00:11:14.520> comes<00:11:14.680> to<00:11:14.760> recruiting.

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Sometimes<00:11:15.440> we'll<00:11:15.560> find<00:11:15.839> someone<00:11:16.080> who's<00:11:16.640> clearly<00:11:16.960> very<00:11:17.200> competent<00:11:18.040> and<00:11:18.120> is<00:11:18.200> very<00:11:18.440> good<00:11:18.560> at<00:11:18.640> their<00:11:18.760> job,<00:11:19.120> but<00:11:19.320> they're<00:11:19.480> going<00:11:19.720> to<00:11:19.839> be<00:11:19.960> distracting<00:11:20.560> to<00:11:20.839> the<00:11:20.920> company<00:11:21.200> culture.

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Like<00:11:22.240> we<00:11:22.360> can<00:11:22.480> just<00:11:22.680> tell<00:11:22.880> they<00:11:23.000> might<00:11:23.200> be<00:11:23.320> a<00:11:23.360> little<00:11:23.680> prickly<00:11:24.040> to<00:11:24.160> people.

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It's<00:11:24.800> going<00:11:24.920> to<00:11:25.000> impact<00:11:25.480> the<00:11:25.720> experience<00:11:26.160> for<00:11:26.480> other<00:11:26.720> team<00:11:26.880> members.

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Um,<00:11:27.760> perhaps<00:11:28.160> they<00:11:28.280> might<00:11:28.520> be<00:11:29.320> more<00:11:29.680> selfish<00:11:30.240> and<00:11:30.400> more,<00:11:31.360> um,<00:11:31.560> focused<00:11:31.920> on<00:11:32.040> like<00:11:32.160> their<00:11:32.360> own<00:11:32.600> opportunities<00:11:33.160> versus<00:11:33.440> like<00:11:33.600> what's<00:11:33.800> the<00:11:33.840> best<00:11:34.080> thing<00:11:34.240> for<00:11:34.400> the<00:11:34.480> company.

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And<00:11:35.455> so<00:11:35.670> all<00:11:35.885> those<00:11:36.100> things<00:11:36.315> do<00:11:36.530> get<00:11:36.745> taken<00:11:36.960> into<00:11:37.175> account<00:11:37.390> when<00:11:37.605> it<00:11:37.820> comes<00:11:38.035> to<00:11:38.250> the<00:11:38.465> interview<00:11:38.680> process,<00:11:38.895> but<00:11:39.110> I'm<00:11:39.325> really<00:11:39.540> proud<00:11:39.755> of<00:11:39.970> our<00:11:40.185> company<00:11:40.400> culture.

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I<00:11:40.840> think<00:11:41.040> every<00:11:41.240> single<00:11:41.480> person<00:11:41.760> that<00:11:41.840> ends<00:11:42.000> up<00:11:42.080> joining<00:11:42.400> the<00:11:42.520> team<00:11:42.760> can<00:11:43.040> really<00:11:43.320> feel<00:11:43.640> it.

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It's<00:11:43.840> very<00:11:44.040> palpable,<00:11:44.920> but<00:11:45.040> it<00:11:45.120> makes<00:11:45.280> it<00:11:45.400> a<00:11:45.440> really<00:11:45.680> enjoyable<00:11:46.200> work<00:11:46.400> experience,<00:11:46.920> and<00:11:47.000> whenever<00:11:47.320> people<00:11:47.560> do<00:11:47.720> end<00:11:47.840> up<00:11:47.920> leaving<00:11:48.160> the<00:11:48.240> company<00:11:48.560> for<00:11:48.680> whatever<00:11:49.000> reason,

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that's<00:11:49.760> always<00:11:50.000> one<00:11:50.160> part<00:11:50.400> that<00:11:50.520> they<00:11:50.640> really<00:11:50.880> miss.<00:11:52.240> What<00:11:52.360> do<00:11:52.440> you<00:11:52.600> read<00:11:53.360> and<00:11:53.520> what<00:11:53.720> reading<00:11:54.000> recommendations<00:11:54.560> do<00:11:54.640> you<00:11:54.720> have<00:11:54.880> for<00:11:55.040> us?

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Well,<00:11:56.520> um,<00:11:56.600> I<00:11:56.680> used<00:11:56.840> to<00:11:56.960> read<00:11:57.120> physical<00:11:57.520> books<00:11:57.720> a<00:11:57.800> lot<00:11:58.040> more<00:11:58.240> before<00:11:58.640> Merge.

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Um,<00:11:59.357> I<00:11:59.554> discovered<00:11:59.751> audiobooks<00:11:59.949> this<00:12:00.146> year<00:12:00.343> and<00:12:00.540> that's<00:12:00.737> been<00:12:00.934> a<00:12:01.131> big<00:12:01.329> game<00:12:01.526> changer<00:12:01.723> for<00:12:01.920> me.

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Um,<00:12:02.840> so<00:12:03.160> I<00:12:03.280> either<00:12:03.680> read,<00:12:05.040> uh,<00:12:05.880> like<00:12:06.120> very<00:12:06.440> trashy,<00:12:07.320> like<00:12:07.640> not<00:12:07.920> productive,<00:12:08.920> like<00:12:09.000> murder<00:12:09.200> mystery<00:12:09.840> books,<00:12:10.880> um,

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or<00:12:11.320> just<00:12:11.640> like<00:12:12.160> girl<00:12:12.520> books<00:12:12.840> that<00:12:13.000> like<00:12:13.240> I<00:12:13.400> just<00:12:13.720> really<00:12:14.040> enjoy.

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Um,<00:12:15.308> so<00:12:15.575> I<00:12:15.843> read<00:12:16.111> a<00:12:16.378> lot<00:12:16.646> of<00:12:16.914> that.<00:12:17.182> I've<00:12:17.449> also<00:12:17.717> been<00:12:17.985> getting<00:12:18.252> into<00:12:18.520> like,<00:12:18.788> um,<00:12:19.055> history<00:12:19.323> for<00:12:19.591> audiobooks<00:12:19.858> because<00:12:20.126> I've<00:12:20.394> actually<00:12:20.662> found<00:12:20.929> that<00:12:21.197> to<00:12:21.465> be<00:12:21.732> surprisingly<00:12:22.000> very

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helpful.<00:12:22.479> Uh,<00:12:22.757> just<00:12:23.036> when<00:12:23.314> you're<00:12:23.593> walking<00:12:23.871> you<00:12:24.150> can<00:12:24.428> just<00:12:24.707> like<00:12:24.985> absorb<00:12:25.264> a<00:12:25.542> lot,<00:12:25.821> and<00:12:26.099> I<00:12:26.378> think<00:12:26.656> a<00:12:26.935> lot<00:12:27.213> of<00:12:27.492> podcasts<00:12:27.770> sometimes<00:12:28.049> it's<00:12:28.327> a<00:12:28.606> little<00:12:28.884> bit<00:12:29.163> too,<00:12:29.441> too<00:12:29.720> short-form

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and<00:12:30.720> sometimes<00:12:31.120> I<00:12:31.200> just<00:12:31.440> want<00:12:31.600> to<00:12:31.640> really<00:12:31.840> dive<00:12:32.080> deep<00:12:32.240> into<00:12:32.400> specific<00:12:32.840> part<00:12:33.000> of<00:12:33.080> history<00:12:33.840> that<00:12:34.280> I<00:12:34.320> might<00:12:34.480> not<00:12:34.600> be<00:12:34.680> able<00:12:34.800> to<00:12:34.839> get<00:12:34.960> from<00:12:35.120> a<00:12:35.160> podcast<00:12:35.960> versus<00:12:36.200> podcasts<00:12:36.640> are

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really<00:12:36.960> good<00:12:37.160> for<00:12:37.280> like<00:12:37.400> current<00:12:37.640> events<00:12:37.960> and<00:12:38.040> also<00:12:38.200> just<00:12:38.400> getting<00:12:38.640> a,<00:12:39.000> um,<00:12:39.040> subjective<00:12:39.520> opinions.

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So<00:12:40.920> I,<00:12:41.400> yeah,<00:12:41.600> that's<00:12:41.800> what<00:12:41.920> I've<00:12:42.000> been<00:12:42.120> reading<00:12:42.400> recently,<00:12:42.800> but<00:12:43.000> I<00:12:43.080> think<00:12:43.240> I<00:12:43.320> could<00:12:43.440> do<00:12:43.520> a<00:12:43.560> lot<00:12:43.720> better<00:12:43.920> when<00:12:44.040> it<00:12:44.120> comes<00:12:44.320> like<00:12:44.440> physical<00:12:44.800> books<00:12:45.080> because<00:12:45.640> physical<00:12:45.960> books

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do<00:12:46.360> offer<00:12:46.600> a<00:12:46.640> very<00:12:46.839> different<00:12:47.120> experience<00:12:48.200> and<00:12:48.720> that's,<00:12:49.240> it's,<00:12:49.600> it's<00:12:49.839> true<00:12:50.600> mental,<00:12:51.760> it's<00:12:51.880> like<00:12:52.000> a<00:12:52.040> true<00:12:52.240> mental<00:12:52.480> break<00:12:52.800> when<00:12:52.920> you're<00:12:53.040> actually<00:12:53.280> reading<00:12:53.480> a<00:12:53.520> physical<00:12:53.839> book

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versus<00:12:54.400> just<00:12:54.640> audio.<00:12:54.880> Yeah.<00:12:55.120> No,<00:12:55.360> I<00:12:55.600> mean,<00:12:55.840> but<00:12:56.080> if<00:12:56.320> you<00:12:56.560> go<00:12:56.800> on<00:12:57.040> long<00:12:57.280> walks<00:12:57.520> and<00:12:57.760> things<00:12:58.000> like<00:12:58.240> that,<00:12:58.480> like<00:12:58.720> audiobooks<00:12:58.960> are<00:12:59.200> the<00:12:59.440> best.

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So<00:13:00.680> glad,<00:13:01.040> yeah.<00:13:01.880> And<00:13:02.000> also,<00:13:02.640> uh,<00:13:02.720> have<00:13:02.920> you<00:13:03.000> tried<00:13:03.200> the<00:13:03.280> Libby<00:13:03.600> app?

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No.<00:13:05.760> Okay,<00:13:06.000> so<00:13:06.120> it's<00:13:06.200> the<00:13:06.280> public<00:13:06.640> library<00:13:07.120> app<00:13:07.360> which<00:13:07.520> is<00:13:07.600> the<00:13:07.680> best<00:13:07.960> app<00:13:08.160> of<00:13:08.280> all<00:13:08.400> time<00:13:08.640> and<00:13:08.800> it's<00:13:09.080> free.

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And<00:13:09.957> so<00:13:10.153> they<00:13:10.350> have<00:13:10.546> a<00:13:10.743> lot<00:13:10.939> of<00:13:11.136> audiobooks<00:13:11.332> that<00:13:11.529> you<00:13:11.725> can<00:13:11.922> listen<00:13:12.118> to<00:13:12.315> for<00:13:12.511> free<00:13:12.708> and<00:13:12.904> it's<00:13:13.101> a<00:13:13.297> lot<00:13:13.494> of<00:13:13.690> the<00:13:13.887> newer<00:13:14.083> books,<00:13:14.280> too.

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And<00:13:15.106> they<00:13:15.372> do<00:13:15.639> have<00:13:15.906> like<00:13:16.173> waitlists<00:13:16.439> for<00:13:16.706> the<00:13:16.973> very<00:13:17.240> popular<00:13:17.506> books,<00:13:17.773> but<00:13:18.040> it's<00:13:18.306> again,<00:13:18.573> it's<00:13:18.840> free,<00:13:19.107> so<00:13:19.373> who<00:13:19.640> cares?

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You<00:13:20.141> can<00:13:20.323> just<00:13:20.504> go<00:13:20.686> on<00:13:20.867> the<00:13:21.049> waitlist<00:13:21.230> for<00:13:21.411> like<00:13:21.593> four<00:13:21.774> weeks<00:13:21.956> and<00:13:22.137> listen<00:13:22.319> to<00:13:22.500> it,<00:13:22.681> but<00:13:22.863> yeah,<00:13:23.044> that's<00:13:23.226> been<00:13:23.407> a<00:13:23.589> big<00:13:23.770> unlock<00:13:23.951> because<00:13:24.133> it<00:13:24.314> makes<00:13:24.496> the<00:13:24.677> barrier<00:13:24.859> for<00:13:25.040> entry

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for<00:13:25.543> a<00:13:25.766> lot<00:13:25.989> of<00:13:26.211> audiobooks<00:13:26.434> just<00:13:26.657> completely<00:13:26.880> zero.

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Wow,<00:13:28.720> I<00:13:28.760> had<00:13:28.920> no<00:13:29.080> idea.<00:13:29.800> That's<00:13:30.040> incredible.

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Best<00:13:31.200> app<00:13:31.560> of<00:13:31.920> all<00:13:32.280> time.<00:13:32.640> Oh,<00:13:33.000> cool.

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Okay,<00:13:33.800> awesome.<00:13:34.880> Finally,<00:13:35.360> we<00:13:35.520> end<00:13:35.680> every<00:13:35.880> interview<00:13:36.120> with<00:13:36.240> the<00:13:36.280> same<00:13:36.480> question<00:13:36.840> and<00:13:36.920> that<00:13:37.120> is<00:13:37.240> at<00:13:37.400> ceo.com<00:13:38.080> we<00:13:38.200> believe<00:13:38.480> the<00:13:38.600> chances<00:13:39.000> one<00:13:39.280> gives<00:13:39.840> is<00:13:40.040> just<00:13:40.280> as<00:13:40.360> important

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as<00:13:40.840> the<00:13:40.920> chances<00:13:41.360> one<00:13:41.520> takes.<00:13:42.600> When<00:13:42.800> you<00:13:43.000> hear<00:13:43.240> that,<00:13:43.480> who<00:13:43.640> gave<00:13:43.840> you<00:13:43.960> a<00:13:44.000> chance<00:13:44.320> to<00:13:44.440> get<00:13:44.560> you<00:13:44.680> to<00:13:44.760> where<00:13:44.920> you<00:13:45.080> are<00:13:45.200> today?

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That's<00:13:48.440> a<00:13:48.480> great<00:13:48.680> question.<00:13:49.000> I've<00:13:49.120> gotten<00:13:49.320> a<00:13:49.360> lot<00:13:49.560> of<00:13:49.640> chances<00:13:51.480> through<00:13:51.640> my<00:13:51.800> life<00:13:52.400> that<00:13:52.520> have<00:13:52.640> been<00:13:52.760> very<00:13:53.280> fortunate.

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I<00:13:53.880> think<00:13:54.160> one<00:13:54.480> that<00:13:54.600> was<00:13:55.080> particularly<00:13:55.480> formative<00:13:56.000> was<00:13:56.120> when<00:13:56.320> I<00:13:56.480> got<00:13:57.280> the<00:13:57.360> job<00:13:57.600> offer<00:13:57.880> at<00:13:58.000> Silver<00:13:58.240> Lake,<00:13:58.960> Silver<00:13:59.280> Lake's<00:13:59.480> growth<00:13:59.720> equity<00:14:00.040> fund,<00:14:00.480> to<00:14:01.760> join<00:14:02.040> as

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one<00:14:02.240> of<00:14:02.320> their<00:14:02.520> associates<00:14:03.120> and<00:14:03.400> they<00:14:03.480> were,<00:14:03.640> they<00:14:03.760> were<00:14:03.920> only<00:14:04.160> hiring<00:14:04.440> two<00:14:04.600> people<00:14:04.880> for<00:14:05.000> that<00:14:05.360> class<00:14:05.760> for<00:14:05.880> that<00:14:06.080> fund.

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It<00:14:07.320> was<00:14:07.400> very<00:14:07.840> lucky<00:14:08.120> for<00:14:08.280> me.<00:14:08.480> They<00:14:08.600> could<00:14:08.760> have<00:14:08.840> chosen<00:14:09.120> anyone.

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It<00:14:09.600> was<00:14:09.760> a<00:14:10.280> really<00:14:10.520> special<00:14:10.880> place.<00:14:11.760> I<00:14:12.920> was<00:14:13.080> very<00:14:13.320> lucky<00:14:13.640> to<00:14:13.760> get<00:14:13.880> that<00:14:14.000> opportunity<00:14:14.440> 'cause<00:14:14.560> it<00:14:14.600> brought<00:14:14.760> me<00:14:14.800> to<00:14:14.880> San<00:14:15.000> Francisco.

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I<00:14:15.800> got<00:14:16.000> to<00:14:16.080> learn<00:14:16.200> a<00:14:16.280> lot<00:14:16.440> more<00:14:16.520> about<00:14:16.720> tech.<00:14:17.520> I<00:14:17.600> learned<00:14:17.760> a<00:14:17.840> lot<00:14:18.080> more<00:14:18.200> about<00:14:18.400> what<00:14:18.520> it<00:14:18.560> was<00:14:18.680> like<00:14:18.840> to<00:14:18.920> be<00:14:19.040> an<00:14:19.120> investor<00:14:19.640> and<00:14:19.840> meet<00:14:20.040> with<00:14:20.240> different<00:14:20.520> founders<00:14:21.040> and<00:14:21.160> that

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got<00:14:21.600> me<00:14:21.720> really<00:14:21.960> interested<00:14:22.280> in<00:14:22.360> moving<00:14:22.640> to<00:14:22.760> an<00:14:22.880> operating<00:14:23.320> role.

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So,<00:14:24.440> and<00:14:24.560> I<00:14:24.640> also<00:14:24.840> learned,<00:14:25.040> learned<00:14:25.200> a<00:14:25.240> lot<00:14:25.480> from<00:14:25.800> the<00:14:25.920> found,<00:14:26.440> the<00:14:26.520> founder<00:14:26.800> of<00:14:26.880> the<00:14:26.960> fund,<00:14:27.240> who<00:14:27.360> Adam<00:14:27.600> Grosser.

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He<00:14:28.120> taught<00:14:28.280> me<00:14:28.360> a<00:14:28.400> lot<00:14:28.840> from<00:14:29.000> being<00:14:29.240> like<00:14:29.360> an<00:14:29.480> early<00:14:29.720> employee<00:14:30.040> at<00:14:30.160> Apple<00:14:30.480> and<00:14:30.560> just<00:14:31.080> how<00:14:31.480> well<00:14:31.680> that<00:14:31.839> worked<00:14:32.040> he<00:14:32.160> was.

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So,<00:14:33.080> I<00:14:33.120> think<00:14:33.280> that<00:14:33.400> was<00:14:33.520> probably<00:14:33.839> one<00:14:34.000> of<00:14:34.040> the<00:14:34.120> most<00:14:34.440> formative<00:14:34.839> experiences<00:14:35.360> because<00:14:35.520> it<00:14:35.640> really<00:14:35.839> changed<00:14:36.120> the<00:14:36.200> trajectory<00:14:36.640> of<00:14:36.720> my<00:14:36.839> life<00:14:37.120> and<00:14:37.200> if<00:14:37.320> I<00:14:37.440> hadn't<00:14:37.800> taken

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that<00:14:38.160> opportunity,<00:14:38.600> I<00:14:38.640> probably<00:14:39.000> would<00:14:39.120> have<00:14:39.240> still<00:14:39.440> been<00:14:39.600> in<00:14:39.720> New<00:14:39.800> York<00:14:40.000> City<00:14:40.240> in<00:14:40.320> a<00:14:40.400> finance<00:14:41.640> in<00:14:41.760> private<00:14:42.080> equity<00:14:42.400> in<00:14:42.520> some<00:14:42.760> role<00:14:43.000> where<00:14:43.160> I,<00:14:43.440> I<00:14:43.520> might<00:14:43.720> hate<00:14:43.880> my<00:14:44.160> job<00:14:44.800> and

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life.<00:14:45.320> So,<00:14:45.760> I'm,<00:14:46.040> I'm<00:14:46.160> very<00:14:46.360> lucky<00:14:46.600> that<00:14:46.720> I<00:14:46.800> had<00:14:47.000> that.

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So,<00:14:47.360> I<00:14:47.400> think<00:14:47.560> that<00:14:47.680> was<00:14:47.800> probably<00:14:48.080> the<00:14:48.160> best<00:14:49.280> example<00:14:49.640> of<00:14:49.720> someone<00:14:49.920> really<00:14:50.120> taking<00:14:50.360> a<00:14:50.400> chance<00:14:50.640> on<00:14:50.760> me.

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That's<00:14:51.960> amazing.<00:14:52.320> Shanna,<00:14:52.560> thank<00:14:52.760> you<00:14:52.839> so<00:14:52.960> much<00:14:53.160> for<00:14:53.280> coming<00:14:53.560> on.

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What<00:14:53.920> an<00:14:54.000> incredible<00:14:54.440> company<00:14:54.839> you've<00:14:55.000> built.<00:14:56.280> Congrats<00:14:56.760> on<00:14:56.839> the<00:14:56.920> launch<00:14:57.240> too<00:14:57.480> of<00:14:57.640> the<00:14:57.800> Agent<00:14:58.120> Handler.

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My<00:14:59.000> word,<00:14:59.320> I<00:14:59.360> think<00:14:59.600> that's<00:14:59.839> is<00:14:59.960> so<00:15:00.120> important.<00:15:00.680> I'm<00:15:00.839> sure<00:15:01.000> you're<00:15:01.160> already<00:15:01.440> seeing<00:15:01.760> some<00:15:01.920> early<00:15:02.160> success<00:15:02.560> in<00:15:02.680> that,<00:15:02.880> but<00:15:03.440> I<00:15:03.560> can't<00:15:03.839> imagine<00:15:04.200> that<00:15:04.360> not<00:15:04.520> being<00:15:04.720> successful

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given<00:15:05.560> where<00:15:05.720> everything<00:15:06.080> stands.<00:15:06.480> So,<00:15:07.400> good<00:15:07.640> luck<00:15:07.880> there<00:15:08.360> and<00:15:08.720> let's<00:15:08.960> have<00:15:09.080> you<00:15:09.160> back<00:15:09.360> on.

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That'd<00:15:09.640> be<00:15:09.720> fun.<00:15:10.520> All<00:15:10.560> right,<00:15:10.720> thank<00:15:10.960> you<00:15:11.040> so<00:15:11.200> much<00:15:11.400> for<00:15:11.520> having<00:15:11.880> me.

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I<00:15:12.160> really<00:15:12.360> appreciate<00:15:12.839> it.