Fearless listening

The first time a recruiter called Barri Rafferty about Morrow Sodali, she said it wasn't the job for her and gave them a few other names to try. Two months later, they called again.

"We really want to meet you. We think you have the operational skill sets," she told the CEO.com Podcast, recalling the second call. "I didn't really know what Morrow Sodali did."

That is a strange thing for a new CEO to admit. It is also, in her telling, the whole point.

Morrow Sodali started 50 years ago as a proxy solicitation shop and grew into activism defense, M&A advisory, and corporate governance. Rafferty ran Ketchum, the communications agency, as CEO and president, and then ran communications and brand at Wells Fargo during the years it was trying to buy back public trust. None of that is proxy work. But TPG Growth had bought a majority of the firm in 2022 and wanted to push it into ESG advisory, investor relations, and financial communications. Those were her fields. She met with the private equity team a couple of times and took the job. In September 2023, the firm named her CEO, Americas, a new role, reporting to global chief executive Alvise Recchi.

"Here I am eight months later," she said. "So there you go."

She was speaking from the New York office. Sirens went by.

She walked into a firm mid-transformation. By her count, Morrow Sodali had more than doubled in 14 months and made seven acquisitions worldwide. She called the process a dating game. "You got to kind of figure out who you want to walk down the aisle with."

Her rules for a target were plain. The leaders had to fit. The firm could not depend on one founder. And the business had to sell alongside what Morrow Sodali already sold. "How will they be able to walk the halls with our people, pitch with our people, go to clients together?" she said. "If we can't make one plus one equals three, and it's not additive, that's important."

Buying the company was the easy part. Some of the firms she acquired had an average employee age of 27. Some of the people already at Morrow Sodali had been there 27 years. The firm was rewriting its mission with outside help to cover both, and Rafferty spent much of her time putting people from the different companies in the same room so they might eventually trust each other with a client.

"In advisory businesses, people bring in people to their client relationships to solve client challenges," she said. That does not happen on a Zoom call with someone you met last quarter.

Her own management habits are simple, and she has kept them a long time. Sunday nights she reads her calendar and drops the meetings someone else can take. "I think you vote with your time." Her default meeting is 30 minutes. Ask for an hour, and she assumes something strategic is coming. As a mid-level manager, she used to sort her week into buckets: time with high-value people and time on growth, and check the ratio. She stopped doing it weekly. She says she can feel it now.

She runs small coffee sessions called Breaks with Barri, a handful of employees from different levels, sometimes in person, sometimes not. She gets more out of them than the engagement surveys. "You often get honest, demanding answers if you ask the tough questions," she said. "As you start to listen to themes, if you don't respond to those, then shame on you."

She calls this empathy, and defines it as fearless listening, which is about the least sentimental definition of empathy on offer.

On the question of what kind of leader she is, she declined the premise. "Some days, I'm in a service leadership position. Some days, I'm role modeling and leading from the front and making decisive decisions; some days, I'm coaching others to make those decisions." She has left every job she has held with an internal successor in place. "Maternity leaves have been great for me. I know that sounds crazy, but when I leave, I put someone in charge, and they take on a lot of the work, and I'm like, 'Great, you keep that. I'll go do new things.'"

Rafferty's firm was selling ESG advisory at the exact moment the phrase became a liability in American politics. Her read was that clients were dropping the word and keeping the work. "They're shying away from the word, but they're not shying away from doing the right thing for society's future," she said. It is worth noting that this is what a firm with an ESG practice would say, and that much of the work she described was not optional. European CSRD rules were about to require large companies with business there to report starting in 2025, whatever anyone called it.

On DEI, she was less careful. "It's been disappointing to see the numbers are not moving forward. Pay equity is moving slower than we would like." Attention comes in bursts, she said, then wanes. Asked whether equity means equal opportunity or equal outcomes, she refused to pick. "They're intertwined." If diverse hires are not rising in a company, she asked, was the opportunity ever real?

Rafferty's own run at Morrow Sodali was shorter than the interview suggests it would be. Recchi, the global CEO she reported to, stepped down in September 2024. The firm rebranded as Sodali & Co and in January 2025 brought in Andrew Benett from PwC to run it. Five months later, Anywhere Real Estate hired Rafferty as chief communications officer and head of public affairs, reporting to CEO Ryan Schneider. Compass closed its acquisition of Anywhere in January 2026 and folded both companies into Compass International Holdings, where she is now chief communications officer. Sodali, for its part, reported a record year through June 2025 and has since rebuilt its executive team under Benett. Whether the acquisitions she stitched together are what drove that year, or whether the firm simply rode a wave of activism and cross-border deals, is not something a press release will tell you.

None of that was on the table when she spoke with the CEO.com Podcast. What was on the table, at the end, was the question every guest gets: who gave you a chance?

She went back to Ketchum. She had a global job she'd wanted, running the brand marketing practice, and two small kids, and this was before you could take a call with China from your kitchen at nine at night. Ray Kotcher, the CEO, told her to move to Atlanta, where she'd grown up and never planned to return, and run the office there. It was a turnaround. She had never run a P&L. Her parents found her a house in six weeks.

"When you have a leader that sees things in you that you might not see in yourself and pushes you out of your comfort zone," she said, "you prove to yourself and others that there's a lot more you can take on in business and life."

00:00:00 Introduction to Barri Rafferty
00:00:42 How Barri Became CEO
00:01:56 What Morrow Sodali Does
00:02:57 A Day in the Life of a CEO
00:04:11 Prioritizing Tasks and Self-Leadership
00:06:42 Barri's Reading Recommendations
00:07:50 Adapting to AI in Business
00:09:27 Hybrid vs In-Person Work
00:10:44 Defining Company Culture
00:12:22 The Politics of ESG and DEI
00:14:24 The Importance of Equity in DEI
00:18:00 Leaders Barri Admires
00:20:48 The Role of Empathy in Leadership
00:23:12 Understanding the Macro Environment
00:27:20 The Chance That Shaped Barri's Career

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So<00:03:53.486> I<00:03:53.550> think<00:03:53.727> they're<00:03:53.967> always<00:03:54.352> juggling<00:03:54.848> all<00:03:55.009> three<00:03:55.265> of<00:03:55.345> those<00:03:55.714> areas,<00:03:56.210> and<00:03:56.595> my<00:03:56.771> meetings<00:03:57.252> and<00:03:57.332> calendar<00:03:57.893> vary<00:03:58.294> from<00:03:58.534> day<00:03:58.694> to<00:03:58.838> day<00:03:59.079> for<00:03:59.191> sure.

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So<00:04:01.418> given<00:04:01.723> that<00:04:01.819> it<00:04:01.963> varies,<00:04:02.380> I<00:04:02.460> just<00:04:02.684> wonder,<00:04:03.005> like,<00:04:03.197> as,<00:04:03.405> as<00:04:03.501> we<00:04:03.646> talked<00:04:03.822> to<00:04:03.886> a<00:04:03.902> lot<00:04:04.062> of<00:04:04.142> leaders<00:04:04.527> and<00:04:04.607> CEOs,<00:04:05.584> how<00:04:05.809> do<00:04:05.841> you<00:04:05.985> decide<00:04:06.706> what<00:04:06.882> to<00:04:07.011> prioritize<00:04:08.629> and<00:04:08.773> what<00:04:08.966> to<00:04:09.094> focus<00:04:09.751> on<00:04:10.953> each<00:04:11.177> day?

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Yeah.

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So<00:04:13.662> I<00:04:13.838> have<00:04:14.079> a<00:04:14.239> weekly<00:04:14.640> ritual.

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I<00:04:16.227> look<00:04:16.387> at<00:04:16.483> my<00:04:16.708> calendar<00:04:17.525> and<00:04:18.471> really<00:04:18.808> decide,<00:04:19.849> you<00:04:19.930> know,<00:04:20.090> I<00:04:20.234> think<00:04:20.395> you<00:04:20.635> vote<00:04:20.891> with<00:04:21.052> your<00:04:21.212> time.

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So<00:04:22.174> there's<00:04:22.430> times<00:04:22.815> on<00:04:22.959> Sunday<00:04:23.232> night<00:04:23.456> I<00:04:23.536> look<00:04:23.713> at<00:04:23.777> my<00:04:23.937> calendar<00:04:24.338> and<00:04:24.482> go,<00:04:24.659> you<00:04:24.739> know<00:04:24.883> what,<00:04:25.364> I<00:04:25.460> don't<00:04:25.604> really<00:04:25.797> need<00:04:26.021> to<00:04:26.101> be<00:04:26.262> in<00:04:26.342> that<00:04:26.582> meeting.

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Someone<00:04:27.464> else<00:04:27.704> can<00:04:27.865> do<00:04:28.025> that.

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Let<00:04:29.243> me<00:04:29.323> send<00:04:29.628> them<00:04:29.772> a<00:04:29.804> note<00:04:30.173> and<00:04:30.253> let<00:04:30.429> them<00:04:30.654> come<00:04:30.830> back.

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So<00:04:31.295> I<00:04:31.535> really<00:04:31.952> do<00:04:32.257> try<00:04:32.449> to<00:04:32.738> really<00:04:32.994> think<00:04:33.395> about<00:04:33.876> where<00:04:34.196> I'm<00:04:34.437> putting<00:04:34.758> my<00:04:34.982> energy<00:04:35.383> and<00:04:35.543> time.

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I<00:04:36.825> also<00:04:37.162> try<00:04:37.338> to<00:04:37.547> do<00:04:37.739> mostly<00:04:38.268> half-hour<00:04:38.781> meetings.

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So<00:04:39.406> if<00:04:39.502> someone<00:04:39.887> wants<00:04:40.272> a<00:04:40.352> longer<00:04:40.609> meeting,<00:04:40.993> they<00:04:41.154> can<00:04:41.314> request<00:04:41.955> it,<00:04:42.115> but<00:04:42.180> It<00:04:42.276> usually<00:04:42.532> means<00:04:42.917> there's<00:04:43.093> something<00:04:43.494> more<00:04:43.590> strategic<00:04:44.456> and<00:04:45.257> that<00:04:45.418> we<00:04:45.498> need<00:04:45.722> to<00:04:45.802> go<00:04:45.979> over.

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It's<00:04:46.524> not<00:04:46.764> just<00:04:46.940> to<00:04:47.085> catch<00:04:47.405> up.

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And<00:04:48.303> then<00:04:48.624> I<00:04:48.784> also<00:04:49.185> think,<00:04:49.730> you<00:04:49.810> know,<00:04:50.627> I<00:04:50.788> did<00:04:51.044> an<00:04:51.108> exercise<00:04:51.894> kind<00:04:52.070> of<00:04:52.134> when<00:04:52.230> I<00:04:52.311> was<00:04:52.471> a<00:04:52.615> mid-level<00:04:53.353> manager<00:04:53.914> that<00:04:54.138> always<00:04:54.330> stuck<00:04:54.635> with<00:04:54.875> me<00:04:55.036> of<00:04:55.196> looking<00:04:55.581> at,<00:04:55.773> are<00:04:55.901> you<00:04:55.997> spending<00:04:56.703> time<00:04:57.120> with<00:04:57.360> your<00:04:57.584> high-value<00:04:58.322> talent?

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Are<00:04:58.867> you<00:04:59.027> spending<00:04:59.524> time<00:04:59.989> really<00:05:00.406> on<00:05:00.630> growth<00:05:01.047> initiatives?

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So<00:05:02.634> I<00:05:02.650> don't<00:05:02.890> do<00:05:03.051> it<00:05:03.211> weekly<00:05:03.500> anymore,<00:05:03.932> but<00:05:04.077> I<00:05:04.157> used<00:05:04.397> to<00:05:04.558> kind<00:05:04.734> of<00:05:04.814> like<00:05:05.375> look<00:05:05.535> at<00:05:05.616> my<00:05:05.840> calendar<00:05:06.401> in<00:05:06.561> those<00:05:06.882> buckets<00:05:07.363> and<00:05:07.459> make<00:05:07.619> sure<00:05:07.876> I'm<00:05:08.100> managing<00:05:08.661> that<00:05:08.822> time.

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Now,<00:05:09.367> as<00:05:09.463> you<00:05:09.607> get<00:05:09.703> a<00:05:09.783> little<00:05:10.008> bit<00:05:10.889> more<00:05:11.050> mature<00:05:11.531> in<00:05:11.627> your<00:05:11.771> role,<00:05:12.028> you<00:05:12.172> get<00:05:12.332> a<00:05:12.348> sense<00:05:12.749> of<00:05:12.893> it.

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But<00:05:13.374> if<00:05:13.486> I'm<00:05:13.855> over<00:05:14.096> inducting<00:05:14.736> one<00:05:14.897> way<00:05:15.057> or<00:05:15.153> another,<00:05:15.554> I<00:05:15.714> try<00:05:15.874> to<00:05:16.018> balance<00:05:16.435> it<00:05:16.579> out<00:05:16.755> as<00:05:16.916> well.

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In<00:05:18.550> a<00:05:18.582> lot<00:05:18.662> of<00:05:18.823> ways,<00:05:18.999> it<00:05:19.031> sounds<00:05:19.255> like<00:05:19.399> you're<00:05:19.480> talking<00:05:19.608> about<00:05:19.880> self-leadership.

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How<00:05:21.162> do<00:05:21.386> you<00:05:21.498> think<00:05:21.739> about<00:05:22.220> self-leadership?

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How<00:05:23.325> do<00:05:23.389> you<00:05:23.566> apply<00:05:24.046> it,<00:05:24.207> not<00:05:24.367> just<00:05:24.607> at<00:05:24.687> work,<00:05:24.928> but<00:05:25.088> just<00:05:25.953> in<00:05:26.049> your<00:05:26.354> life<00:05:26.690> in<00:05:26.834> order<00:05:27.011> to<00:05:27.155> create<00:05:27.411> that<00:05:27.636> balance?

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Yeah,<00:05:29.574> well,<00:05:29.719> I<00:05:29.831> think,<00:05:30.616> you<00:05:30.712> know,<00:05:30.872> self-leadership<00:05:31.962> often<00:05:32.315> starts<00:05:32.779> with<00:05:32.923> self-care.

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And<00:05:34.862> I<00:05:35.023> think,<00:05:35.247> you<00:05:35.343> know,<00:05:35.487> you<00:05:35.583> heard<00:05:35.760> the<00:05:35.888> term<00:05:36.208> put<00:05:36.449> your<00:05:36.609> oxygen<00:05:37.106> mask<00:05:37.506> on<00:05:37.666> first.

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To<00:05:38.163> me,<00:05:38.532> that's<00:05:38.948> critical.

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Um,<00:05:40.070> I<00:05:40.230> think<00:05:40.551> that<00:05:41.417> how<00:05:41.738> you<00:05:41.914> show<00:05:42.299> up<00:05:42.781> as,<00:05:43.263> you<00:05:43.359> know,<00:05:43.503> in<00:05:43.616> a<00:05:43.664> sense,<00:05:44.065> a<00:05:44.226> corporate<00:05:44.707> athlete.

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You<00:05:45.285> know,<00:05:45.446> are<00:05:45.686> you<00:05:45.911> taking<00:05:46.248> care<00:05:46.393> of<00:05:46.473> yourself<00:05:46.874> physically,<00:05:47.629> mentally,<00:05:48.415> getting<00:05:48.736> rest,<00:05:49.137> hydrating,<00:05:50.004> you<00:05:50.036> know,<00:05:50.325> all<00:05:50.486> those<00:05:50.743> things<00:05:51.048> that<00:05:51.128> you<00:05:51.208> need<00:05:51.401> to<00:05:51.545> do<00:05:51.722> to<00:05:51.802> show<00:05:52.171> up?

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And<00:05:53.150> then<00:05:53.536> also,<00:05:54.418> I'm<00:05:54.739> a<00:05:54.916> big<00:05:55.221> believer<00:05:55.879> in,<00:05:56.425> you<00:05:56.457> know,<00:05:56.698> sometimes<00:05:57.227> you<00:05:57.324> need<00:05:57.484> to<00:05:57.645> lead<00:05:57.869> from<00:05:58.046> the<00:05:58.126> front<00:05:58.528> and<00:05:58.608> sometimes<00:05:59.089> you<00:05:59.234> need<00:05:59.410> to<00:05:59.555> lead<00:05:59.812> from<00:05:59.972> the<00:06:00.117> back.

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So<00:06:01.337> really<00:06:01.738> looking<00:06:02.123> and<00:06:02.364> analyzing<00:06:03.006> the<00:06:03.038> situations<00:06:04.065> of<00:06:04.210> when<00:06:04.370> you<00:06:04.531> go<00:06:04.772> into<00:06:05.173> a<00:06:05.189> meeting,<00:06:06.216> you<00:06:06.296> know,<00:06:06.537> how<00:06:06.794> are<00:06:07.051> you<00:06:07.179> showing<00:06:07.661> up<00:06:07.982> and<00:06:08.158> what<00:06:08.383> is<00:06:08.496> going<00:06:08.656> to<00:06:08.720> be—<00:06:09.106> help<00:06:09.443> with<00:06:09.603> the<00:06:09.683> best<00:06:10.149> outcome<00:06:10.807> for<00:06:10.967> that<00:06:11.289> group<00:06:11.690> or<00:06:11.866> that<00:06:12.412> initiative.

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And<00:06:14.339> so<00:06:14.901> I<00:06:15.126> think<00:06:15.543> flexing<00:06:16.491> your<00:06:16.731> leadership<00:06:17.213> style<00:06:17.711> as<00:06:17.952> well<00:06:18.337> is<00:06:18.514> really<00:06:18.835> important.

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And<00:06:19.879> so<00:06:20.039> I<00:06:20.119> don't<00:06:20.344> think<00:06:20.537> of<00:06:20.665> myself<00:06:21.083> as<00:06:21.404> one<00:06:21.709> type<00:06:21.982> of<00:06:22.126> leader.

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Some<00:06:23.250> days<00:06:23.636> I'm<00:06:23.732> in<00:06:23.877> a<00:06:23.909> service<00:06:25.017> leadership<00:06:25.482> position,<00:06:26.076> some<00:06:26.301> days<00:06:26.703> I'm<00:06:27.104> role<00:06:27.281> modeling<00:06:27.827> and<00:06:27.971> leading<00:06:28.228> from<00:06:28.389> the<00:06:28.469> front<00:06:28.806> and<00:06:29.336> making<00:06:29.834> decisive<00:06:30.396> decisions,<00:06:31.102> and<00:06:31.343> some<00:06:31.520> days<00:06:31.696> I'm<00:06:31.905> coaching<00:06:32.306> others<00:06:32.708> to<00:06:32.788> make<00:06:33.029> those<00:06:33.205> decisions.

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So<00:06:34.169> it<00:06:34.249> really<00:06:34.651> varies<00:06:35.180> from<00:06:35.373> day<00:06:35.598> to<00:06:35.694> day<00:06:35.919> in<00:06:36.015> that<00:06:36.577> way<00:06:36.802> as<00:06:36.979> well.

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What<00:06:38.423> do<00:06:38.487> you<00:06:38.664> read?

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What<00:06:39.386> reading<00:06:39.706> recommendations<00:06:40.348> do<00:06:40.412> you<00:06:40.509> have<00:06:40.749> for<00:06:40.910> us?

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I<00:06:42.433> read<00:06:42.818> a<00:06:42.915> lot.

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Days<00:06:44.038> when<00:06:44.182> I<00:06:44.278> come<00:06:44.455> in<00:06:44.583> on<00:06:44.679> the<00:06:44.824> train,<00:06:45.176> it<00:06:45.305> helps<00:06:45.722> too.

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But<00:06:46.508> I<00:06:46.620> start—<00:06:47.069> I<00:06:47.165> actually<00:06:47.550> am<00:06:47.647> going<00:06:47.743> to<00:06:47.807> miss—<00:06:48.128> I<00:06:48.208> know<00:06:48.513> Alan<00:06:48.770> Murray<00:06:49.090> at<00:06:49.315> Fortune<00:06:49.716> is<00:06:49.876> retiring,<00:06:50.614> and<00:06:51.416> I<00:06:51.496> start<00:06:51.881> a<00:06:51.962> lot<00:06:52.154> of<00:06:52.202> mornings<00:06:52.764> with<00:06:53.486> his<00:06:53.742> column.

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So<00:06:54.304> I'm<00:06:54.480> sure<00:06:54.785> the<00:06:54.865> new<00:06:55.090> person<00:06:55.491> will<00:06:55.747> take<00:06:56.052> that<00:06:56.212> over<00:06:56.469> and<00:06:56.630> do<00:06:56.790> really<00:06:57.095> well.

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I<00:06:58.715> actually<00:06:59.260> do—<00:06:59.517> I<00:06:59.741> listen<00:07:00.303> in<00:07:00.383> the<00:07:00.463> morning<00:07:00.800> to<00:07:00.961> Bloomberg<00:07:01.442> Radio<00:07:01.843> because<00:07:02.164> it<00:07:02.244> gives<00:07:02.468> me<00:07:02.565> a<00:07:02.629> little<00:07:02.805> bit<00:07:03.030> more<00:07:03.206> global<00:07:03.848> perspective.

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On<00:07:06.013> business.

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And<00:07:07.215> then<00:07:07.921> I<00:07:08.257> try<00:07:08.594> to<00:07:09.203> kind<00:07:09.379> of<00:07:09.443> make<00:07:09.684> sure<00:07:10.261> I'm<00:07:10.501> looking<00:07:10.838> at<00:07:10.982> different<00:07:11.367> sources<00:07:12.104> because<00:07:12.505> I<00:07:12.585> think<00:07:12.762> if<00:07:12.906> you<00:07:13.050> read<00:07:13.307> the<00:07:13.403> same<00:07:13.788> sources<00:07:14.333> every<00:07:14.573> day,<00:07:14.910> you<00:07:15.070> get<00:07:15.294> kind<00:07:15.487> of<00:07:15.695> jaded<00:07:16.128> sometimes,<00:07:16.913> one<00:07:17.090> opinion.

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Um,<00:07:18.677> so<00:07:18.917> I,<00:07:19.222> I<00:07:19.462> try<00:07:19.639> to<00:07:19.735> mix<00:07:20.039> it<00:07:20.184> up.

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My<00:07:20.520> kids<00:07:20.905> are<00:07:21.001> getting<00:07:21.306> a<00:07:21.402> lot<00:07:21.626> on<00:07:21.803> social<00:07:22.284> media,<00:07:22.700> so<00:07:22.989> I'm<00:07:23.710> looking<00:07:24.111> at,<00:07:24.287> you<00:07:24.367> know,<00:07:24.912> things,<00:07:25.233> the<00:07:25.393> Daily<00:07:25.730> Brew,<00:07:26.051> things<00:07:26.291> that<00:07:26.451> they're<00:07:26.692> looking<00:07:27.093> at<00:07:27.333> too,<00:07:27.573> to<00:07:27.654> get<00:07:27.894> some<00:07:28.054> different<00:07:28.375> perspectives.

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And<00:07:29.722> then<00:07:30.042> at<00:07:30.202> night<00:07:30.523> I<00:07:30.683> try<00:07:30.940> to<00:07:31.020> read<00:07:31.260> more<00:07:31.437> fiction,<00:07:31.982> relaxing.

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I<00:07:32.767> try<00:07:32.879> to<00:07:33.088> turn<00:07:33.328> off<00:07:33.569> the<00:07:33.665> business<00:07:34.130> stuff<00:07:34.450> like<00:07:34.867> later<00:07:35.076> at<00:07:35.204> night<00:07:35.573> and<00:07:35.733> try<00:07:35.909> to<00:07:36.134> read<00:07:36.374> things<00:07:36.631> that<00:07:36.759> are<00:07:36.855> going<00:07:37.160> actually<00:07:37.352> let<00:07:37.512> me<00:07:37.593> relax<00:07:38.138> and<00:07:38.234> go<00:07:38.315> to<00:07:38.395> sleep.

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Ah,<00:07:39.598> that's<00:07:39.919> great.

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Yeah,<00:07:40.481> that's<00:07:40.962> perfect.

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That's<00:07:41.604> incredible.

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I<00:07:42.791> wonder,<00:07:43.192> like,<00:07:43.593> um,<00:07:44.171> given<00:07:44.411> the<00:07:44.492> business<00:07:44.812> you're<00:07:45.037> in<00:07:45.197> and<00:07:45.294> the<00:07:45.438> companies<00:07:45.919> that<00:07:46.080> you<00:07:46.176> advise<00:07:46.738> and<00:07:46.818> the<00:07:46.962> various<00:07:47.299> leaders<00:07:47.620> you,<00:07:48.326> you<00:07:48.438> advise<00:07:48.823> and<00:07:48.968> work<00:07:49.208> with,<00:07:50.171> um,<00:07:50.588> how<00:07:51.150> they're<00:07:51.455> all<00:07:51.551> thinking<00:07:51.952> about<00:07:52.193> artificial<00:07:52.754> intelligence<00:07:53.861> and<00:07:54.278> this<00:07:54.583> kind<00:07:54.744> of<00:07:54.840> wave<00:07:55.161> that<00:07:55.305> is<00:07:55.466> coming,<00:07:55.786> how<00:07:56.043> you're<00:07:56.348> thinking<00:07:56.765> about<00:07:57.150> it,<00:07:57.888> and<00:07:58.193> what<00:07:59.236> we<00:07:59.412> should<00:07:59.637> all<00:07:59.813> be<00:07:59.958> expecting<00:08:00.535> in<00:08:00.616> the<00:08:00.760> future<00:08:01.161> and<00:08:01.241> how<00:08:01.418> companies<00:08:01.819> are<00:08:01.963> adapting<00:08:02.461> to<00:08:02.621> it.

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Yeah,<00:08:04.401> so<00:08:04.465> I<00:08:04.625> think<00:08:04.849> adapting<00:08:05.972> is<00:08:06.148> the<00:08:06.228> key<00:08:06.533> word<00:08:06.933> to<00:08:07.110> AI,<00:08:07.575> right?

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We're<00:08:08.136> all<00:08:08.312> in<00:08:08.472> this<00:08:08.793> experimental<00:08:09.819> phase.

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I<00:08:10.332> know<00:08:10.636> here<00:08:11.037> we're<00:08:11.823> testing,<00:08:12.704> you<00:08:12.800> know,<00:08:13.025> different<00:08:13.426> areas,<00:08:13.923> different<00:08:14.227> types<00:08:14.628> of<00:08:14.788> copilots,<00:08:15.590> what's<00:08:15.766> going<00:08:15.878> to<00:08:15.990> help<00:08:16.311> us<00:08:16.551> be<00:08:16.648> more<00:08:16.888> efficient<00:08:17.529> in<00:08:17.609> our<00:08:17.850> day-to-day<00:08:18.395> work.

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Visualization,<00:08:20.960> you<00:08:20.992> know,<00:08:21.104> there's<00:08:21.377> a<00:08:21.521> lot<00:08:21.713> of<00:08:21.777> things<00:08:22.098> now.

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I<00:08:22.499> don't<00:08:22.659> know<00:08:22.723> about<00:08:23.124> you,<00:08:23.380> but,<00:08:24.022> you<00:08:24.118> know,<00:08:24.486> if<00:08:24.583> you<00:08:24.663> can<00:08:24.887> take<00:08:25.080> something<00:08:25.528> and<00:08:25.689> put<00:08:25.865> it<00:08:26.009> into<00:08:26.330> AI<00:08:26.747> and<00:08:26.907> it<00:08:27.051> comes<00:08:27.372> out<00:08:27.468> looking<00:08:27.789> beautiful,<00:08:28.269> that<00:08:28.446> saves<00:08:28.831> me<00:08:28.975> a<00:08:29.071> lot<00:08:29.231> of<00:08:29.311> time<00:08:29.696> than<00:08:29.873> trying<00:08:30.177> to<00:08:30.353> move<00:08:30.514> around<00:08:30.898> those<00:08:31.155> PowerPoints.

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And<00:08:32.582> then<00:08:32.758> we're<00:08:32.918> looking<00:08:33.303> at<00:08:33.415> it,<00:08:33.559> we<00:08:33.720> have<00:08:33.944> the<00:08:34.024> Moros<00:08:34.906> like<00:08:34.954> platform,<00:08:35.789> um,<00:08:35.949> where<00:08:36.190> we<00:08:36.286> have<00:08:36.591> a<00:08:36.767> lot<00:08:37.152> of<00:08:37.393> data<00:08:37.634> and<00:08:37.955> insights<00:08:38.596> on<00:08:38.693> institutional<00:08:39.431> investors<00:08:40.137> and<00:08:40.281> shareholders<00:08:41.164> and<00:08:41.324> corporate<00:08:41.661> governance<00:08:42.158> issues.

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And<00:08:43.346> so<00:08:43.490> we're<00:08:43.586> starting<00:08:43.971> to<00:08:44.148> look<00:08:44.373> at<00:08:44.453> our<00:08:44.629> data<00:08:44.934> integrity<00:08:45.977> and<00:08:46.298> how<00:08:46.539> do<00:08:46.635> we<00:08:47.341> look<00:08:47.517> at<00:08:47.678> predictive<00:08:48.239> modeling<00:08:48.865> with<00:08:49.041> AI<00:08:49.747> and<00:08:49.908> ways<00:08:50.245> to<00:08:50.405> pull<00:08:50.710> data<00:08:51.111> out,<00:08:51.593> um,<00:08:51.753> more<00:08:51.930> precise.

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And<00:08:52.652> a<00:08:52.716> lot<00:08:52.892> of<00:08:52.972> that<00:08:53.197> is<00:08:53.357> looking<00:08:53.614> at<00:08:53.775> the<00:08:53.919> precision<00:08:54.641> too<00:08:55.058> of<00:08:55.844> how<00:08:56.181> you<00:08:56.486> prompt<00:08:57.048> and<00:08:57.288> ask<00:08:57.609> for<00:08:57.690> that<00:08:57.946> data<00:08:58.251> and<00:08:58.428> what<00:08:58.652> that<00:08:58.893> looks<00:08:59.150> like.

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So<00:09:00.257> we're<00:09:00.353> doing<00:09:00.818> a<00:09:00.979> lot<00:09:01.300> of<00:09:01.620> tests<00:09:02.182> in<00:09:02.262> our<00:09:02.583> own<00:09:02.824> firm<00:09:04.170> trying<00:09:04.509> to<00:09:04.671> make<00:09:04.897> sure<00:09:05.221> that<00:09:05.382> we<00:09:05.802> invest<00:09:06.368> in<00:09:06.595> areas<00:09:07.015> that<00:09:07.193> are<00:09:07.403> actually<00:09:07.807> going<00:09:08.049> to<00:09:08.146> really<00:09:08.696> help<00:09:09.424> our<00:09:09.585> client<00:09:10.410> deliverable<00:09:11.137> and<00:09:11.363> output<00:09:11.848> and<00:09:12.010> help<00:09:12.269> the<00:09:12.366> efficiency<00:09:12.996> of<00:09:13.093> our<00:09:13.303> people<00:09:13.628> to<00:09:13.791> do<00:09:13.889> their<00:09:14.134> jobs<00:09:14.624> better<00:09:14.951> and<00:09:15.098> make<00:09:15.294> it<00:09:15.424> easier.

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What<00:09:17.445> have<00:09:17.590> you<00:09:17.623> seen<00:09:18.092> in<00:09:18.238> terms<00:09:18.643> of<00:09:18.983> like<00:09:19.306> post-pandemic<00:09:20.278> work<00:09:20.504> from<00:09:20.682> home<00:09:21.314> versus<00:09:21.961> hybrid<00:09:22.690> versus<00:09:23.354> in-person?

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How<00:09:24.972> are<00:09:25.118> companies<00:09:25.523> handling<00:09:25.782> that?

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Yeah,<00:09:27.738> so<00:09:28.514> I<00:09:28.611> think<00:09:29.080> we're<00:09:29.258> hybrid<00:09:29.824> for<00:09:29.986> good<00:09:30.228> right<00:09:30.487> now.

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I<00:09:30.891> know<00:09:31.101> there's<00:09:31.344> a<00:09:31.425> lot<00:09:31.619> of<00:09:31.748> companies<00:09:32.476> looking<00:09:32.815> to<00:09:32.896> get<00:09:33.122> back,<00:09:34.497> I<00:09:34.609> see<00:09:35.154> tremendous<00:09:35.795> value<00:09:36.292> in<00:09:36.501> people<00:09:36.837> being<00:09:37.142> together.

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And<00:09:38.616> so<00:09:39.065> we<00:09:39.226> have<00:09:39.386> some<00:09:39.707> teams<00:09:40.203> that<00:09:40.428> now<00:09:40.845> come<00:09:41.149> in,<00:09:41.406> they<00:09:41.566> kind<00:09:41.742> of<00:09:41.951> pick<00:09:42.127> what<00:09:42.352> days<00:09:42.688> their<00:09:42.913> teams<00:09:43.249> are<00:09:43.329> going<00:09:43.522> to<00:09:43.570> be<00:09:43.650> in<00:09:43.794> the<00:09:43.955> office,<00:09:45.253> because<00:09:45.574> you<00:09:45.654> don't<00:09:45.798> want<00:09:45.878> to<00:09:46.038> come<00:09:46.215> in<00:09:46.455> and<00:09:46.616> be<00:09:46.952> sitting<00:09:47.321> at<00:09:47.401> your<00:09:47.561> computer<00:09:48.122> on<00:09:48.315> Zoom<00:09:48.683> all<00:09:48.796> day<00:09:49.100> when<00:09:49.341> you<00:09:49.421> could<00:09:49.581> be<00:09:49.725> at<00:09:49.806> home,<00:09:50.206> right?

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So<00:09:50.623> we're<00:09:50.783> trying<00:09:51.024> to<00:09:51.104> make<00:09:51.344> sure<00:09:51.665> the<00:09:51.825> days<00:09:52.130> people<00:09:52.386> come<00:09:52.611> in,<00:09:52.851> that<00:09:53.028> time<00:09:53.284> is<00:09:53.492> collaborative.

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But<00:09:54.951> we<00:09:55.176> also<00:09:55.432> want<00:09:55.560> to<00:09:55.592> make<00:09:55.753> sure<00:09:55.993> there's<00:09:56.298> that<00:09:56.554> informal<00:09:57.580> time<00:09:57.837> as<00:09:57.997> well.

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And<00:09:58.558> then<00:09:58.798> we<00:09:58.959> have<00:09:59.135> a<00:09:59.263> lot<00:09:59.504> of<00:09:59.600> employees,<00:10:00.562> probably<00:10:00.946> over<00:10:01.187> 50<00:10:01.524> now<00:10:01.908> in<00:10:02.004> the<00:10:02.149> US,<00:10:02.485> that<00:10:02.806> have<00:10:03.271> gone<00:10:03.527> hybrid<00:10:03.992> and<00:10:04.072> will<00:10:04.153> stay<00:10:04.473> hybrid.

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So<00:10:05.050> we<00:10:05.146> have<00:10:05.307> to<00:10:05.451> look<00:10:05.772> ways<00:10:06.236> to<00:10:06.493> bring<00:10:06.733> them<00:10:06.958> together,<00:10:07.599> bring<00:10:07.839> them<00:10:08.000> in<00:10:08.240> as<00:10:08.417> needed<00:10:08.801> when<00:10:08.962> it<00:10:08.994> makes<00:10:09.330> sense.

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But<00:10:10.484> also,<00:10:11.062> like,<00:10:11.302> even<00:10:11.478> our<00:10:11.687> holiday<00:10:12.248> parties,<00:10:12.632> for<00:10:12.681> instance,<00:10:13.145> we<00:10:13.306> did<00:10:13.771> in-person<00:10:14.412> parties<00:10:14.973> and<00:10:15.149> we<00:10:15.309> did<00:10:15.534> hybrid<00:10:16.031> virtual<00:10:16.512> parties<00:10:17.137> and<00:10:17.297> tried<00:10:17.554> to<00:10:17.618> send<00:10:17.858> people<00:10:18.195> things<00:10:19.061> to<00:10:19.157> do<00:10:20.103> activities<00:10:20.824> and<00:10:20.920> things<00:10:21.241> and<00:10:21.321> engage<00:10:21.738> with<00:10:21.946> us<00:10:22.106> at<00:10:22.186> home.

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So<00:10:22.908> I<00:10:23.020> think<00:10:23.228> we're<00:10:23.389> all<00:10:23.629> working<00:10:24.110> at<00:10:24.431> what<00:10:24.607> is<00:10:24.831> that<00:10:25.248> bifurcated<00:10:26.050> model<00:10:26.434> today<00:10:27.492> that<00:10:27.653> allows<00:10:28.214> people<00:10:28.598> to<00:10:28.759> create<00:10:29.320> work-life<00:10:29.817> integration<00:10:30.682> and<00:10:30.859> show<00:10:31.243> up<00:10:31.420> and<00:10:31.580> do<00:10:31.724> their<00:10:31.901> jobs<00:10:32.317> and<00:10:32.462> be<00:10:32.622> together<00:10:33.087> when<00:10:33.247> they<00:10:33.343> need<00:10:33.584> to<00:10:33.728> be,<00:10:34.466> but<00:10:34.770> also<00:10:35.171> have<00:10:35.331> that<00:10:35.507> flexibility<00:10:36.309> to<00:10:36.469> be<00:10:36.630> home<00:10:37.495> when<00:10:37.640> that's<00:10:37.898> most<00:10:38.172> effective<00:10:38.640> as<00:10:38.866> well.

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How<00:10:40.432> do<00:10:40.561> you<00:10:40.722> define<00:10:41.206> culture<00:10:42.013> inside<00:10:42.288> of<00:10:42.417> your<00:10:42.513> company?

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Well,<00:10:45.175> we're<00:10:45.402> going<00:10:45.725> through<00:10:45.919> an<00:10:46.146> interesting<00:10:46.938> change<00:10:47.375> management<00:10:47.990> right<00:10:48.248> now.

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Um,<00:10:49.769> as<00:10:50.011> a<00:10:50.028> firm,<00:10:50.513> we've<00:10:50.755> grown<00:10:51.241> tremendously.

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We've<00:10:52.308> more<00:10:52.518> than<00:10:52.777> doubled<00:10:53.246> in<00:10:53.343> the<00:10:53.424> past<00:10:53.812> 14<00:10:54.152> months.

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Um,<00:10:55.277> we've<00:10:55.453> made<00:10:55.759> 7<00:10:56.386> acquisitions<00:10:57.141> around<00:10:57.430> the<00:10:57.511> world,<00:10:58.555> and<00:10:58.668> so<00:10:59.375> that<00:10:59.922> actually<00:11:00.645> helps<00:11:00.966> evolve<00:11:01.320> your<00:11:01.529> culture,<00:11:02.252> right?

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So<00:11:03.536> We're<00:11:03.696> doing<00:11:04.017> a<00:11:04.177> lot<00:11:04.434> of<00:11:04.594> looking<00:11:05.059> at<00:11:05.171> our<00:11:05.476> vision<00:11:06.021> and<00:11:06.117> mission<00:11:06.678> right<00:11:06.935> now<00:11:07.464> and<00:11:07.544> our<00:11:08.201> cultural<00:11:08.746> beliefs<00:11:09.227> that<00:11:09.323> we<00:11:09.483> started<00:11:09.948> with<00:11:10.205> at<00:11:10.349> Morris<00:11:10.686> Adali,<00:11:11.231> but<00:11:11.391> also<00:11:11.808> as<00:11:12.032> we<00:11:12.273> make<00:11:12.593> acquisitions,<00:11:13.475> looking<00:11:13.795> at<00:11:13.892> what's<00:11:14.212> integral<00:11:14.773> to<00:11:14.934> their<00:11:15.174> cultures<00:11:15.735> and<00:11:15.879> how<00:11:15.976> do<00:11:16.120> we<00:11:16.360> blend<00:11:16.697> those<00:11:16.937> cultures.

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So<00:11:18.380> together<00:11:19.085> we,<00:11:19.406> um,<00:11:19.727> have<00:11:19.887> some<00:11:20.127> outside<00:11:20.608> support<00:11:20.961> right<00:11:21.185> now.

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We're<00:11:21.730> looking<00:11:22.067> at<00:11:22.131> our<00:11:22.372> overall<00:11:22.852> branding<00:11:23.510> and<00:11:23.670> trying<00:11:23.991> to<00:11:24.151> bring<00:11:24.391> those<00:11:24.696> together<00:11:25.129> in<00:11:25.273> a<00:11:25.353> way<00:11:25.658> that<00:11:26.459> works<00:11:26.796> for<00:11:27.197> a<00:11:27.341> culture<00:11:27.902> that's<00:11:28.319> been<00:11:28.559> delivering<00:11:29.361> and<00:11:29.521> based<00:11:29.906> on<00:11:30.066> collaboration<00:11:30.803> and<00:11:30.964> integrity<00:11:31.685> and<00:11:31.765> things<00:11:32.086> for<00:11:32.230> the<00:11:32.326> last<00:11:32.647> 50<00:11:33.032> years.

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And<00:11:34.154> then<00:11:34.250> we've<00:11:34.426> acquired<00:11:35.100> companies<00:11:35.757> where,<00:11:35.917> you<00:11:35.949> know,<00:11:36.254> the<00:11:36.558> average<00:11:36.895> age<00:11:37.151> is<00:11:37.296> 27.

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Some<00:11:38.273> of<00:11:38.402> our<00:11:38.578> people<00:11:38.979> in<00:11:39.139> Morocco,<00:11:39.636> Sedali,<00:11:40.085> have<00:11:40.261> been<00:11:40.422> here<00:11:40.646> 27<00:11:41.159> years.

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So<00:11:41.768> how<00:11:42.265> do<00:11:42.409> we<00:11:42.570> make<00:11:42.810> sure<00:11:43.147> that<00:11:43.259> our<00:11:43.451> culture<00:11:44.012> works<00:11:44.509> for<00:11:45.535> our<00:11:46.032> diverse<00:11:46.673> portfolio<00:11:47.859> of<00:11:48.100> talent,<00:11:48.741> of<00:11:49.062> ages,<00:11:49.799> of<00:11:49.943> people<00:11:50.264> all<00:11:50.440> over<00:11:50.665> the<00:11:50.761> world<00:11:51.258> in<00:11:51.402> different<00:11:52.043> regions?

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And<00:11:53.486> that's<00:11:53.727> going<00:11:53.823> to<00:11:53.887> be<00:11:54.047> critical<00:11:54.528> to<00:11:54.752> us<00:11:55.009> because<00:11:55.265> if<00:11:55.410> that<00:11:55.634> culture<00:11:56.035> isn't<00:11:56.291> something<00:11:56.692> you<00:11:56.836> can<00:11:57.077> live<00:11:57.397> and<00:11:57.574> believe<00:11:58.119> and<00:11:58.279> stand<00:11:58.696> for,<00:12:00.058> and<00:12:00.155> it's<00:12:00.379> not<00:12:00.619> embedded<00:12:01.245> in<00:12:01.357> a<00:12:01.421> way<00:12:01.742> that<00:12:01.982> everyone<00:12:02.447> understands<00:12:03.168> it,<00:12:03.329> then<00:12:03.489> it's<00:12:03.729> hard<00:12:04.210> to<00:12:05.028> bring<00:12:05.268> to<00:12:05.509> life<00:12:05.829> and<00:12:05.990> be<00:12:06.086> a<00:12:06.214> differentiator.

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For<00:12:07.176> your<00:12:07.353> company.

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So<00:12:07.995> we<00:12:08.140> want<00:12:08.236> to<00:12:08.316> make<00:12:08.477> sure<00:12:08.782> we're<00:12:08.895> not<00:12:09.200> being<00:12:09.424> stagnant,<00:12:10.083> but<00:12:10.243> we're<00:12:10.468> evolving<00:12:11.046> with<00:12:11.271> it.

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7<00:12:12.717> acquisitions<00:12:13.311> is<00:12:13.455> a<00:12:13.600> lot.

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How<00:12:14.178> does—<00:12:14.563> what<00:12:14.676> is<00:12:14.804> that<00:12:14.981> process<00:12:15.688> like?

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How<00:12:16.266> do<00:12:16.330> you<00:12:16.426> determine,<00:12:16.908> like,<00:12:17.069> hey,<00:12:17.294> they're<00:12:17.454> going<00:12:17.534> to<00:12:17.567> be<00:12:17.695> a<00:12:17.711> good<00:12:17.936> cultural<00:12:18.337> fit,<00:12:19.076> they're<00:12:19.237> going<00:12:19.349> to<00:12:19.542> add<00:12:19.719> to<00:12:19.815> the<00:12:20.024> business?

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I<00:12:20.762> imagine,<00:12:21.244> like,<00:12:21.469> you've<00:12:21.565> become<00:12:21.983> somewhat<00:12:22.465> of<00:12:22.609> an<00:12:22.689> expert<00:12:23.155> on<00:12:23.252> this.

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That,<00:12:24.055> I<00:12:24.071> mean,<00:12:24.279> that,<00:12:24.536> that's<00:12:24.857> quite<00:12:25.163> a<00:12:25.179> few<00:12:25.660> to<00:12:25.885> go<00:12:26.142> through<00:12:26.528> all<00:12:26.704> in<00:12:26.785> a<00:12:26.849> row.

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Tell<00:12:27.812> us<00:12:27.925> about<00:12:28.214> how<00:12:28.374> you<00:12:28.535> think<00:12:28.728> about<00:12:29.033> it.

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Yeah,<00:12:30.655> so<00:12:31.040> it<00:12:31.185> is<00:12:31.297> a<00:12:31.426> bit<00:12:31.538> of<00:12:31.667> a<00:12:31.827> dating<00:12:32.245> game.

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I<00:12:32.727> kind<00:12:32.887> of<00:12:33.192> joke,<00:12:33.594> you<00:12:33.626> know,<00:12:33.915> that<00:12:34.476> We're<00:12:34.717> out<00:12:34.957> there<00:12:35.214> dating<00:12:35.695> and<00:12:35.775> you're<00:12:35.935> going<00:12:36.175> to<00:12:36.240> kind<00:12:36.400> of<00:12:36.496> figure<00:12:36.801> out<00:12:37.057> who<00:12:37.201> you<00:12:37.298> want<00:12:37.442> to<00:12:37.538> walk<00:12:37.875> down<00:12:38.163> the<00:12:38.404> aisle<00:12:38.660> with.

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And<00:12:39.045> I<00:12:39.125> think<00:12:39.301> that's<00:12:39.686> true.

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It's<00:12:40.423> not<00:12:40.728> just<00:12:41.001> about<00:12:41.610> adding<00:12:42.026> businesses.

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I<00:12:42.748> mean,<00:12:43.004> I<00:12:43.052> think<00:12:43.229> we<00:12:43.389> have<00:12:43.694> goals<00:12:44.110> that<00:12:44.255> we<00:12:44.351> want<00:12:44.495> to<00:12:45.233> continue<00:12:45.713> to<00:12:45.858> build<00:12:46.258> out<00:12:46.579> ESG<00:12:47.381> and<00:12:47.461> our<00:12:47.653> specialty<00:12:48.262> communications<00:12:49.304> and<00:12:49.481> areas,<00:12:50.122> but<00:12:51.003> the<00:12:51.164> leaders<00:12:51.629> need<00:12:51.805> to<00:12:51.885> be<00:12:52.029> a<00:12:52.125> cultural<00:12:52.687> fit,<00:12:53.312> um,<00:12:53.632> at<00:12:53.809> the<00:12:53.969> organization.

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We<00:12:55.075> also<00:12:55.332> want<00:12:55.476> to<00:12:55.572> look<00:12:55.748> for<00:12:56.037> depth<00:12:56.373> of<00:12:56.534> talent,<00:12:57.031> so<00:12:57.255> we<00:12:57.415> don't<00:12:57.576> want<00:12:57.720> to<00:12:57.896> buy<00:12:58.938> a<00:12:59.083> company<00:12:59.515> that's<00:12:59.804> reliant<00:13:00.525> on<00:13:00.782> one<00:13:01.022> person<00:13:01.567> or<00:13:01.728> one<00:13:01.920> founder.

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So<00:13:02.705> that's<00:13:03.010> critical<00:13:03.491> to<00:13:03.731> us<00:13:03.892> to<00:13:04.068> look<00:13:04.228> at<00:13:04.324> the<00:13:04.533> depth<00:13:04.934> of<00:13:05.094> talent.

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We<00:13:06.232> then<00:13:06.537> look<00:13:06.777> at<00:13:07.258> how<00:13:07.514> will<00:13:07.675> they<00:13:07.899> fit<00:13:08.156> in<00:13:08.460> and<00:13:08.637> be<00:13:08.781> able<00:13:09.021> to<00:13:09.198> cross-sell,<00:13:10.015> because<00:13:10.544> obviously,<00:13:11.762> you<00:13:11.843> know,<00:13:12.003> if<00:13:12.163> we<00:13:12.243> can't<00:13:12.548> make<00:13:12.804> 1<00:13:13.349> 1<00:13:13.846> 3<00:13:14.167> and<00:13:14.311> it's<00:13:14.488> not<00:13:14.872> additive,<00:13:15.369> that's<00:13:15.674> important.

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So<00:13:16.555> how<00:13:16.796> will<00:13:16.956> they<00:13:17.197> be<00:13:17.293> able<00:13:17.533> to<00:13:17.934> walk<00:13:18.255> the<00:13:18.335> halls<00:13:18.800> with<00:13:18.960> our<00:13:19.120> people,<00:13:19.697> pitch<00:13:20.002> with<00:13:20.098> our<00:13:20.258> people,<00:13:20.803> go<00:13:20.964> to<00:13:21.060> clients<00:13:21.621> together,<00:13:22.823> um,<00:13:23.144> and<00:13:23.304> solve<00:13:23.785> problems<00:13:24.426> for<00:13:24.571> our<00:13:24.731> people<00:13:25.067> and<00:13:25.228> be<00:13:25.388> strong<00:13:25.933> advisors?

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And<00:13:27.456> then<00:13:27.616> as<00:13:27.777> we<00:13:27.937> connect<00:13:28.273> the<00:13:28.418> dots<00:13:28.754> globally,<00:13:29.636> it<00:13:29.796> takes<00:13:30.197> a<00:13:30.438> lot<00:13:30.902> of<00:13:31.063> time<00:13:31.560> to<00:13:31.784> integrate<00:13:32.441> and<00:13:32.682> educate.

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So<00:13:34.205> the<00:13:34.429> integration<00:13:35.166> involves<00:13:35.711> a<00:13:35.792> lot<00:13:35.968> of<00:13:36.128> technology<00:13:36.834> integration<00:13:37.795> and<00:13:37.860> It<00:13:37.940> involves<00:13:38.292> learning<00:13:38.613> and<00:13:38.774> development,<00:13:39.495> making<00:13:39.816> sure<00:13:39.976> people<00:13:40.377> understand<00:13:41.259> the<00:13:41.420> products<00:13:41.965> and<00:13:42.061> services<00:13:42.783> that<00:13:43.007> we<00:13:43.167> deliver.

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And<00:13:44.707> it<00:13:44.851> involves<00:13:45.493> people<00:13:46.230> learning<00:13:46.952> to<00:13:47.112> trust<00:13:47.577> other<00:13:47.834> people,<00:13:48.235> right?

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Because<00:13:49.422> as<00:13:49.662> we<00:13:49.758> know,<00:13:49.983> in<00:13:50.239> advisory<00:13:51.025> businesses,<00:13:51.747> people<00:13:52.067> bring<00:13:52.324> in<00:13:52.549> people<00:13:53.030> to<00:13:53.126> their<00:13:53.350> client<00:13:53.671> relationships<00:13:54.489> to<00:13:54.633> solve<00:13:54.954> client<00:13:55.435> challenges.

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And<00:13:56.349> so<00:13:56.654> we're<00:13:56.958> also<00:13:57.295> just<00:13:57.520> spending<00:13:57.921> a<00:13:58.017> lot<00:13:58.257> of<00:13:58.338> time<00:13:58.658> now<00:13:58.979> having<00:13:59.284> our<00:13:59.460> people<00:13:59.845> get<00:14:00.021> to<00:14:00.118> know<00:14:00.358> each<00:14:00.647> other,<00:14:01.689> um,<00:14:02.010> from<00:14:02.170> the<00:14:02.266> different<00:14:02.651> companies<00:14:03.132> we've<00:14:03.373> brought<00:14:03.694> in.

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So<00:14:04.030> different<00:14:04.511> leadership<00:14:04.993> meetings<00:14:05.474> and<00:14:05.634> things<00:14:05.939> coming<00:14:06.259> up<00:14:06.436> to<00:14:06.580> make<00:14:06.757> sure<00:14:07.077> we're<00:14:07.302> exchanging<00:14:07.943> knowledge<00:14:08.504> and<00:14:09.226> also<00:14:09.546> having<00:14:09.867> fun<00:14:10.123> together<00:14:10.668> and<00:14:11.005> starting<00:14:11.469> to<00:14:11.630> get<00:14:11.790> to<00:14:11.902> know<00:14:12.142> each<00:14:12.367> other<00:14:12.607> better.

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ESG<00:14:14.514> is<00:14:14.690> an<00:14:14.770> interesting<00:14:15.652> concept,<00:14:17.398> and<00:14:17.479> it<00:14:17.559> seems<00:14:17.815> like<00:14:18.520> a<00:14:18.680> good<00:14:18.921> concept.

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It's<00:14:19.482> also<00:14:19.738> become<00:14:20.876> somewhat<00:14:21.485> political,<00:14:22.959> and<00:14:23.664> I'm<00:14:24.545> not<00:14:24.770> entirely<00:14:25.347> sure<00:14:27.206> it's<00:14:27.350> understood<00:14:28.455> entirely.

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What<00:14:29.273> would<00:14:29.417> you<00:14:29.513> have<00:14:29.769> us<00:14:29.994> understand<00:14:30.635> about<00:14:31.035> ESG<00:14:31.500> that<00:14:31.660> maybe<00:14:32.077> is<00:14:32.317> being<00:14:33.263> misconstrued<00:14:34.224> out<00:14:34.401> there<00:14:34.561> in<00:14:34.721> the<00:14:34.785> world?

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Yeah,<00:14:36.388> well,<00:14:36.468> there's<00:14:36.709> definitely<00:14:37.206> been<00:14:37.430> a<00:14:37.606> lot<00:14:37.911> of<00:14:38.087> backlash<00:14:38.873> to<00:14:39.193> ESG,<00:14:39.610> even<00:14:39.995> the<00:14:40.171> term<00:14:40.716> ESG,<00:14:41.293> in<00:14:41.454> the<00:14:41.598> past<00:14:41.999> year.

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But<00:14:43.137> what<00:14:43.281> I<00:14:43.441> would<00:14:43.554> say,<00:14:43.938> as<00:14:44.147> we<00:14:44.323> talk<00:14:44.596> to<00:14:45.125> clients<00:14:45.782> and<00:14:46.022> big<00:14:46.263> companies<00:14:46.920> around<00:14:47.224> the<00:14:47.369> world,<00:14:47.850> is<00:14:48.571> I<00:14:48.651> think<00:14:48.827> they're<00:14:48.988> shying<00:14:49.485> away<00:14:49.789> from<00:14:50.014> the<00:14:50.174> word,<00:14:50.976> but<00:14:51.136> they're<00:14:51.232> not<00:14:51.553> shying<00:14:52.034> away<00:14:52.354> from<00:14:52.659> doing<00:14:52.995> the<00:14:53.156> right<00:14:53.492> thing<00:14:53.941> for<00:14:54.037> the<00:14:54.198> future<00:14:54.743> of<00:14:54.839> society,<00:14:55.624> right?

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And<00:14:56.105> that<00:14:56.346> can<00:14:56.442> be<00:14:56.602> diversity,<00:14:57.323> it<00:14:57.468> can<00:14:57.628> be<00:14:57.724> climate,<00:14:58.462> it<00:14:58.590> can<00:14:58.766> be<00:14:58.991> all<00:14:59.247> different<00:14:59.632> areas<00:15:00.193> of<00:15:00.289> sustainability,<00:15:02.197> um,<00:15:02.597> corporate<00:15:02.998> governance.

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So<00:15:03.655> as<00:15:03.816> we<00:15:03.992> look<00:15:04.521> at<00:15:04.922> that,<00:15:05.258> we're<00:15:05.515> really<00:15:05.884> working<00:15:06.220> with<00:15:06.397> our<00:15:06.605> clients<00:15:06.910> clients<00:15:07.262> to<00:15:07.359> make<00:15:07.663> sure<00:15:08.786> that<00:15:09.026> they're<00:15:09.187> future-proofing<00:15:10.213> their<00:15:10.389> business.

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And<00:15:11.336> future-proofing<00:15:12.234> can<00:15:12.394> be<00:15:12.618> all<00:15:12.715> kinds<00:15:13.116> of<00:15:13.196> things,<00:15:13.581> right?

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There's<00:15:14.318> a<00:15:14.543> lot<00:15:14.815> of<00:15:14.960> regulation<00:15:16.002> out<00:15:16.227> there<00:15:16.403> and<00:15:16.563> things<00:15:16.804> that<00:15:16.948> are<00:15:17.109> going<00:15:17.365> into<00:15:17.606> place.

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You<00:15:18.648> know,<00:15:18.825> if<00:15:18.889> you're<00:15:19.193> a<00:15:19.434> global<00:15:19.915> company<00:15:20.412> doing<00:15:20.717> more<00:15:20.877> than<00:15:21.022> $150<00:15:21.791> million<00:15:22.657> of<00:15:22.802> business<00:15:23.218> in<00:15:23.379> Europe,<00:15:23.924> you<00:15:24.084> have<00:15:24.245> CSRD<00:15:25.287> regulations<00:15:26.185> that<00:15:26.346> you're<00:15:26.426> going<00:15:26.538> to<00:15:26.666> have<00:15:26.987> to<00:15:27.067> start<00:15:27.388> to<00:15:27.468> follow<00:15:27.949> in<00:15:28.094> 2025.

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The<00:15:30.114> SEC<00:15:30.515> is<00:15:30.996> putting<00:15:31.301> things<00:15:31.557> in<00:15:31.718> place<00:15:32.119> in<00:15:32.199> the<00:15:32.359> U.S.<00:15:32.824> that<00:15:32.937> are<00:15:33.065> evolving.

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So<00:15:34.348> our<00:15:34.588> goal<00:15:34.941> is<00:15:35.150> to<00:15:35.230> make<00:15:35.470> sure<00:15:35.807> we<00:15:36.032> work<00:15:36.288> with<00:15:36.593> clients<00:15:37.250> to<00:15:38.036> not<00:15:38.293> only<00:15:38.694> define<00:15:39.896> their<00:15:40.137> purpose<00:15:40.618> and<00:15:40.778> mission<00:15:41.179> and<00:15:41.324> the<00:15:41.500> areas<00:15:41.981> that<00:15:42.158> they<00:15:42.382> want<00:15:42.543> to<00:15:42.703> really<00:15:43.585> make<00:15:43.810> sure<00:15:44.066> they're<00:15:44.307> delivering<00:15:45.012> on,<00:15:45.269> but<00:15:45.574> also<00:15:45.846> make<00:15:46.071> sure<00:15:46.472> they're<00:15:46.696> ready<00:15:47.033> for<00:15:47.177> the<00:15:47.338> regulatory<00:15:48.075> environment<00:15:49.439> that<00:15:49.743> continues<00:15:50.465> to<00:15:50.641> evolve.

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And<00:15:51.363> so<00:15:51.668> by<00:15:51.908> working<00:15:52.245> through<00:15:52.486> those<00:15:52.790> two<00:15:52.967> things,<00:15:53.368> we<00:15:53.512> hope<00:15:53.753> to<00:15:53.849> help<00:15:54.234> make<00:15:54.490> them<00:15:55.276> better<00:15:55.597> corporate<00:15:55.950> citizens<00:15:56.671> and<00:15:56.880> develop<00:15:57.377> sustainable<00:15:58.243> long-term<00:15:58.804> value<00:15:59.301> for<00:15:59.446> those<00:15:59.702> companies.

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You<00:16:01.306> touched<00:16:01.611> briefly<00:16:02.172> a<00:16:02.252> little<00:16:02.429> bit<00:16:02.733> on<00:16:03.070> the<00:16:03.375> other,<00:16:04.097> um,<00:16:04.834> business<00:16:05.251> term<00:16:05.540> that's<00:16:05.716> getting<00:16:05.973> attacked<00:16:06.358> a<00:16:06.374> lot,<00:16:06.502> and<00:16:06.598> that<00:16:06.759> is<00:16:06.983> DEI.

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Why<00:16:08.683> do<00:16:08.747> you<00:16:08.923> think<00:16:09.164> that's<00:16:09.468> getting<00:16:09.725> attacked?

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What<00:16:10.767> would<00:16:10.927> you<00:16:11.071> have<00:16:11.248> us<00:16:11.408> know<00:16:11.648> about<00:16:11.969> that<00:16:12.210> particular<00:16:12.851> issue?

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Yeah,<00:16:15.175> I<00:16:15.255> mean,<00:16:15.720> you<00:16:15.816> know,<00:16:16.057> as<00:16:16.217> a<00:16:16.297> female<00:16:16.778> CEO<00:16:17.580> who's<00:16:17.980> promoted<00:16:18.702> diversity<00:16:19.583> and<00:16:20.545> through<00:16:21.090> an<00:16:21.251> organization<00:16:21.988> I'm<00:16:22.228> close<00:16:22.533> with,<00:16:22.645> C200,<00:16:23.495> trying<00:16:23.735> to<00:16:23.767> move<00:16:24.216> women<00:16:24.777> even<00:16:25.258> up<00:16:25.899> the<00:16:25.995> ranks,<00:16:27.582> it's<00:16:27.839> kind<00:16:28.079> of<00:16:28.160> been<00:16:28.320> disappointing<00:16:29.282> to<00:16:29.378> see<00:16:29.923> the<00:16:30.019> numbers<00:16:30.564> are<00:16:30.885> not<00:16:31.125> really<00:16:31.366> moving<00:16:31.750> forward.

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You<00:16:32.568> know,<00:16:32.808> pay<00:16:33.049> equity<00:16:33.530> is<00:16:33.706> not<00:16:33.995> moving<00:16:34.411> as<00:16:34.572> quickly<00:16:35.133> as<00:16:35.373> any<00:16:35.533> of<00:16:35.678> us<00:16:35.854> would<00:16:36.014> like.

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And<00:16:36.479> I<00:16:36.575> think<00:16:36.736> we<00:16:36.880> have<00:16:37.056> these<00:16:37.457> bursts<00:16:38.018> where<00:16:38.194> something<00:16:38.675> social<00:16:39.284> happens<00:16:40.342> that<00:16:40.486> gets<00:16:40.727> a<00:16:40.807> lot<00:16:40.983> of<00:16:41.143> news<00:16:41.688> and<00:16:42.345> everyone<00:16:42.810> kind<00:16:42.986> of<00:16:43.066> focuses<00:16:43.691> on<00:16:43.852> it<00:16:44.012> short<00:16:44.268> term<00:16:44.653> and<00:16:44.749> then<00:16:44.909> it<00:16:45.069> wanes<00:16:45.470> a<00:16:45.550> bit.

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But<00:16:46.095> I<00:16:46.255> think<00:16:46.496> that<00:16:47.233> the<00:16:47.393> importance<00:16:48.418> of,<00:16:48.851> you<00:16:48.931> know,<00:16:49.861> the<00:16:50.037> data<00:16:50.437> is<00:16:50.598> there.

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Companies<00:16:51.719> that<00:16:52.120> are<00:16:52.216> more<00:16:52.505> diverse<00:16:53.242> have<00:16:53.466> more<00:16:53.578> senior<00:16:54.107> teams<00:16:54.588> and<00:16:54.764> boards<00:16:55.165> that<00:16:55.325> are<00:16:55.405> diverse<00:16:55.950> around<00:16:56.206> the<00:16:56.350> table<00:16:57.408> are<00:16:57.552> more<00:16:57.745> successful.

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And<00:16:58.690> diversity<00:16:59.395> can<00:16:59.571> speak<00:16:59.892> to<00:17:00.196> all<00:17:00.372> different<00:17:00.853> types<00:17:01.398> of<00:17:02.039> thinking<00:17:02.456> that<00:17:02.616> comes<00:17:02.936> around<00:17:03.241> the<00:17:03.337> table,<00:17:03.898> different<00:17:04.379> types<00:17:04.859> of<00:17:05.100> points<00:17:05.500> of<00:17:05.580> view.

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And<00:17:07.166> I<00:17:07.326> think<00:17:07.503> that<00:17:07.823> representation<00:17:09.026> is<00:17:09.186> gonna<00:17:09.346> be<00:17:09.507> critical<00:17:10.693> for<00:17:10.805> now<00:17:11.190> and<00:17:11.334> in<00:17:11.430> the<00:17:11.574> future.

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So<00:17:12.232> I<00:17:12.392> hope<00:17:12.713> that<00:17:13.658> as<00:17:13.755> some<00:17:13.931> of<00:17:13.995> this<00:17:14.300> kind<00:17:14.540> of<00:17:14.781> wanes<00:17:15.197> and<00:17:15.342> comes<00:17:15.678> back,<00:17:16.079> that<00:17:16.303> we<00:17:16.400> stay<00:17:16.784> committed<00:17:17.265> long-term<00:17:17.842> because<00:17:18.227> I<00:17:18.323> think<00:17:18.500> it's<00:17:18.724> critical<00:17:19.365> to<00:17:19.670> really<00:17:20.007> be<00:17:20.183> successful<00:17:20.888> societally<00:17:21.834> and<00:17:21.930> in<00:17:22.090> business.

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It<00:17:23.790> seems<00:17:24.078> like<00:17:24.575> of<00:17:24.736> the<00:17:24.960> DEI,<00:17:25.617> of<00:17:25.761> those<00:17:26.098> three<00:17:26.403> letters,<00:17:27.124> E<00:17:27.300> is<00:17:27.461> the<00:17:27.621> one<00:17:27.926> that<00:17:28.166> gets<00:17:29.048> probably<00:17:29.449> the<00:17:29.529> most<00:17:29.849> controversy,<00:17:30.507> right?

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Which<00:17:30.971> is<00:17:31.148> equity.

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And<00:17:32.350> there<00:17:32.510> are<00:17:32.671> some<00:17:32.975> who<00:17:33.071> believe<00:17:33.376> that<00:17:33.536> means<00:17:33.873> equality<00:17:34.434> of<00:17:34.530> outcomes,<00:17:35.155> and<00:17:35.300> there<00:17:35.364> are<00:17:35.492> some<00:17:35.861> that<00:17:36.021> believe<00:17:36.278> there—<00:17:36.582> that's<00:17:36.774> equality<00:17:37.223> of<00:17:37.319> opportunity.

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And<00:17:38.765> I<00:17:38.925> wonder,<00:17:39.567> like,<00:17:40.210> maybe<00:17:40.467> if<00:17:40.611> we<00:17:40.691> could<00:17:40.852> all<00:17:41.012> just<00:17:41.237> figure<00:17:41.494> out<00:17:41.719> what<00:17:41.895> that<00:17:42.120> definition<00:17:42.618> is,<00:17:43.405> this<00:17:43.581> wouldn't<00:17:43.806> be<00:17:43.967> controversial.

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Because<00:17:44.930> I—<00:17:45.090> yeah,<00:17:45.283> the<00:17:45.412> equality<00:17:45.829> of<00:17:45.974> outcomes<00:17:46.295> thing<00:17:46.471> is<00:17:46.616> a<00:17:46.632> whole<00:17:46.776> different<00:17:47.097> thing<00:17:47.194> than<00:17:47.354> equality<00:17:47.820> of<00:17:47.852> opportunity,<00:17:48.478> right?

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Yeah,<00:17:50.726> but<00:17:50.870> I<00:17:50.967> think<00:17:51.384> they're<00:17:51.673> intertwined,<00:17:52.588> right?

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I<00:17:52.974> mean,<00:17:53.215> what<00:17:53.359> you<00:17:53.455> want<00:17:53.648> to<00:17:53.696> make<00:17:53.921> sure<00:17:54.242> is<00:17:54.563> that<00:17:54.900> the<00:17:55.125> opportunities<00:17:56.024> are<00:17:56.169> there<00:17:56.442> for<00:17:56.650> people<00:17:57.694> of<00:17:57.855> all<00:17:58.192> types<00:17:58.754> and<00:17:58.994> ages<00:17:59.556> and<00:17:59.733> sexes<00:18:00.359> and<00:18:00.504> everything,<00:18:01.066> and<00:18:01.306> that<00:18:01.579> they're<00:18:01.788> paid<00:18:02.206> equitably<00:18:02.992> for<00:18:03.153> the<00:18:03.313> return<00:18:03.795> on<00:18:03.875> investment<00:18:04.534> that<00:18:04.678> you're<00:18:04.839> putting<00:18:05.240> in.

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And<00:18:06.364> I<00:18:06.541> think<00:18:07.246> You<00:18:07.343> know,<00:18:07.503> sometimes<00:18:08.144> you're<00:18:08.305> seeing<00:18:09.026> that,<00:18:09.732> that<00:18:09.908> diversity<00:18:10.469> isn't<00:18:10.854> rising<00:18:11.496> up<00:18:11.672> in<00:18:11.848> organizations.

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So<00:18:12.955> is<00:18:13.115> that<00:18:13.420> giving<00:18:13.676> them<00:18:13.837> real<00:18:14.141> opportunity?

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And<00:18:15.504> then<00:18:15.761> when<00:18:16.466> they<00:18:16.643> do<00:18:16.883> rise<00:18:17.284> up<00:18:17.669> and<00:18:17.829> you're<00:18:17.926> doing<00:18:18.246> pay<00:18:18.487> equity<00:18:18.824> studies,<00:18:19.353> you're<00:18:19.529> realizing<00:18:20.251> that<00:18:20.411> that's<00:18:20.732> not,<00:18:21.998> you<00:18:22.095> know,<00:18:22.319> comprehensive<00:18:23.137> as<00:18:23.361> well.

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So<00:18:24.019> I<00:18:24.163> think<00:18:24.339> we<00:18:24.500> have<00:18:24.676> to<00:18:24.804> work<00:18:25.045> on<00:18:25.302> both<00:18:25.542> sides<00:18:26.039> of<00:18:26.167> that<00:18:26.360> spectrum<00:18:27.065> to<00:18:27.146> make<00:18:27.386> sure<00:18:27.787> that<00:18:27.947> we<00:18:28.172> get<00:18:28.428> to<00:18:28.733> true<00:18:29.070> equality<00:18:29.791> in<00:18:29.936> the<00:18:30.016> workplace.

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Who's<00:18:32.036> a<00:18:32.197> leader<00:18:32.678> or<00:18:32.822> example<00:18:33.255> of<00:18:33.399> a<00:18:33.479> leader<00:18:33.864> that<00:18:34.024> you<00:18:34.137> admire?

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You<00:18:36.509> know,<00:18:36.670> it's<00:18:36.846> so<00:18:37.151> funny,<00:18:37.471> there's<00:18:37.728> so<00:18:38.048> many<00:18:38.449> leaders<00:18:38.834> that<00:18:38.994> I<00:18:39.106> admire.

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And<00:18:39.876> I<00:18:39.972> think<00:18:40.757> as<00:18:40.918> you<00:18:41.094> grow<00:18:41.415> up<00:18:41.591> in<00:18:41.735> organizations,<00:18:42.713> sometimes<00:18:43.194> you<00:18:43.402> learn<00:18:43.723> from<00:18:43.899> the<00:18:44.060> best<00:18:44.380> leaders<00:18:44.781> and<00:18:44.925> you<00:18:45.086> also<00:18:45.422> learn<00:18:45.727> from<00:18:45.903> those<00:18:46.368> that<00:18:46.480> are<00:18:47.105> not<00:18:47.410> such<00:18:47.666> good<00:18:47.827> leaders,<00:18:48.372> right?

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What<00:18:48.789> you<00:18:48.933> want<00:18:49.093> to<00:18:49.253> emulate<00:18:49.911> and<00:18:50.071> what<00:18:50.295> you<00:18:50.392> don't<00:18:50.696> want<00:18:50.792> to<00:18:50.953> emulate.

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So<00:18:52.235> I<00:18:52.379> think<00:18:52.636> for<00:18:52.796> me,<00:18:53.181> I<00:18:53.357> just,<00:18:53.678> I<00:18:53.902> look<00:18:54.063> for<00:18:54.143> examples<00:18:54.960> every<00:18:55.201> day,<00:18:55.601> whether<00:18:55.906> I'm<00:18:56.082> reading<00:18:56.403> stories<00:18:56.884> in<00:18:57.028> the<00:18:57.124> business,<00:18:57.766> I'm<00:18:57.926> meeting<00:18:58.791> peers<00:18:59.208> in<00:18:59.353> the<00:18:59.513> industry,<00:19:00.875> um,<00:19:01.292> I<00:19:01.452> get<00:19:01.677> to<00:19:01.853> work<00:19:02.094> with<00:19:02.254> a<00:19:02.414> lot<00:19:02.655> of<00:19:02.799> amazing<00:19:03.440> people.

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And<00:19:04.178> so<00:19:04.482> what<00:19:04.643> I've<00:19:04.803> tried<00:19:05.204> to<00:19:05.300> do<00:19:05.620> is<00:19:05.925> to<00:19:06.230> to<00:19:06.646> really<00:19:06.983> take<00:19:07.368> those<00:19:07.689> traits<00:19:08.250> to<00:19:08.410> heart<00:19:08.747> that<00:19:08.908> I<00:19:09.068> think<00:19:09.373> are<00:19:09.469> going<00:19:09.661> to<00:19:09.709> be<00:19:10.014> additive<00:19:10.575> for<00:19:10.688> me,<00:19:11.072> but<00:19:11.457> also<00:19:11.730> make<00:19:11.954> sure<00:19:12.195> the<00:19:12.275> ones<00:19:12.580> that<00:19:12.740> don't<00:19:12.981> make<00:19:13.173> me<00:19:13.382> feel<00:19:13.558> good,<00:19:13.959> I<00:19:14.055> don't<00:19:14.761> put<00:19:14.921> those<00:19:15.226> on<00:19:15.322> others<00:19:15.707> and<00:19:16.509> pay<00:19:16.669> that<00:19:16.910> forward.

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And<00:19:17.647> so<00:19:17.984> sometimes<00:19:18.513> I<00:19:18.594> think<00:19:18.754> if<00:19:18.850> I<00:19:18.994> look<00:19:19.171> back<00:19:19.395> at<00:19:19.427> my<00:19:19.636> career,<00:19:19.909> I've<00:19:20.053> learned<00:19:20.277> the<00:19:20.358> most<00:19:20.678> from<00:19:20.919> leaders<00:19:21.256> that<00:19:21.400> I<00:19:21.560> didn't<00:19:21.817> thrive<00:19:22.298> under<00:19:22.619> as<00:19:22.779> much<00:19:23.020> as<00:19:23.100> those<00:19:23.404> that<00:19:23.501> I<00:19:23.661> did<00:19:23.902> thrive<00:19:24.222> under.

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Oh,<00:19:25.601> that's<00:19:25.906> interesting.

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That,<00:19:27.991> that<00:19:28.167> is,<00:19:28.472> that<00:19:28.632> is<00:19:28.793> actually<00:19:29.097> quite<00:19:29.338> fascinating,<00:19:29.915> right?

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Like<00:19:31.022> kind<00:19:31.182> of<00:19:31.262> learning<00:19:31.679> what<00:19:32.080> not<00:19:32.417> to<00:19:33.042> in<00:19:33.186> a<00:19:33.202> lot<00:19:33.379> of<00:19:33.443> ways.

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Yeah,<00:19:35.046> because<00:19:35.431> as<00:19:35.591> you<00:19:35.767> see,<00:19:36.312> you<00:19:36.344> know,<00:19:36.569> leaders<00:19:37.034> that<00:19:37.290> give<00:19:37.531> you<00:19:37.851> the<00:19:38.012> rope<00:19:38.396> and<00:19:38.573> motivate<00:19:39.134> you<00:19:39.534> and<00:19:39.695> coach<00:19:40.015> you<00:19:40.336> and<00:19:40.560> push<00:19:40.721> you<00:19:40.881> out<00:19:40.993> of<00:19:41.121> your<00:19:41.282> comfort<00:19:41.682> zone,<00:19:42.083> like,<00:19:42.740> there's<00:19:42.965> a<00:19:43.061> lot<00:19:43.366> of<00:19:43.542> things<00:19:43.927> I've<00:19:44.167> looked<00:19:44.488> at.

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And<00:19:44.664> then<00:19:44.888> there's<00:19:45.129> leaders<00:19:45.449> I<00:19:45.546> feel<00:19:45.722> like<00:19:45.946> maybe<00:19:46.251> have<00:19:46.411> held<00:19:46.668> me<00:19:46.828> back<00:19:47.309> or<00:19:47.485> not<00:19:47.854> allowed<00:19:48.207> me<00:19:48.495> to<00:19:49.233> thrive.

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And<00:19:50.018> so<00:19:50.435> I<00:19:50.595> really<00:19:50.980> try<00:19:51.172> to<00:19:51.461> take<00:19:51.637> that<00:19:51.862> to<00:19:52.022> heart<00:19:52.278> and<00:19:52.439> think<00:19:52.679> about<00:19:53.000> that,<00:19:53.240> because<00:19:54.026> the<00:19:54.186> key<00:19:54.523> is,<00:19:54.843> for<00:19:54.939> me,<00:19:55.548> when<00:19:55.709> I<00:19:55.885> look<00:19:56.061> at<00:19:56.206> my<00:19:56.510> career,<00:19:57.632> it's<00:19:57.793> not<00:19:57.985> only<00:19:58.209> about<00:19:58.514> my<00:19:58.706> success,<00:19:59.412> but<00:19:59.716> all<00:19:59.957> the<00:20:00.053> people<00:20:00.518> that<00:20:00.678> I've<00:20:00.838> been<00:20:00.951> able<00:20:01.127> to<00:20:01.255> coach<00:20:01.656> and<00:20:01.800> bring<00:20:02.041> up<00:20:02.217> behind<00:20:02.682> me.

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And<00:20:02.938> that's<00:20:03.243> where<00:20:03.339> I<00:20:03.564> get<00:20:03.884> a<00:20:03.980> lot<00:20:04.157> of<00:20:04.365> joy<00:20:04.702> and<00:20:04.926> value<00:20:05.503> and<00:20:06.160> seeing<00:20:06.529> those<00:20:06.786> people<00:20:07.267> and,<00:20:07.651> you<00:20:07.763> know,<00:20:08.132> building<00:20:08.549> in<00:20:08.709> my<00:20:08.950> succession.

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I've<00:20:09.976> always<00:20:10.473> left<00:20:10.729> a<00:20:10.857> job<00:20:11.274> and<00:20:11.434> been<00:20:11.579> able<00:20:11.755> to<00:20:11.915> appoint<00:20:12.396> someone<00:20:12.797> almost<00:20:13.182> always<00:20:13.534> internally.

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Um,<00:20:15.426> and<00:20:15.827> I<00:20:15.987> think<00:20:16.404> that's,<00:20:16.949> you<00:20:16.981> know,<00:20:17.205> when<00:20:17.366> you<00:20:17.526> know<00:20:17.830> you're<00:20:17.991> being<00:20:18.167> successful<00:20:18.953> is<00:20:19.113> when<00:20:19.209> you're<00:20:19.433> getting<00:20:19.770> people<00:20:20.171> that<00:20:20.427> you've<00:20:20.796> coached<00:20:21.678> through<00:20:21.854> the<00:20:21.998> years<00:20:22.495> that<00:20:22.736> are<00:20:22.896> thriving<00:20:23.681> and<00:20:23.762> you<00:20:23.858> say,<00:20:24.098> you<00:20:24.162> know<00:20:24.258> what,<00:20:24.563> I'm<00:20:24.659> going<00:20:24.804> to<00:20:24.900> leave,<00:20:25.220> but<00:20:26.262> you<00:20:26.342> know,<00:20:26.503> here's<00:20:26.743> someone<00:20:27.048> else.

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I<00:20:27.400> mean,<00:20:27.929> maternity<00:20:28.490> leaves<00:20:28.747> have<00:20:28.827> been<00:20:29.068> great<00:20:29.372> for<00:20:29.532> me.

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I<00:20:30.206> know<00:20:30.414> that<00:20:30.606> sounds<00:20:30.911> crazy,<00:20:31.376> but<00:20:31.552> I<00:20:31.696> leave,<00:20:31.953> I<00:20:32.097> put<00:20:32.258> someone<00:20:32.514> in<00:20:32.594> charge,<00:20:32.995> they<00:20:33.219> take<00:20:33.460> on<00:20:33.572> a<00:20:33.700> lot<00:20:33.812> of<00:20:33.877> the<00:20:34.021> work,<00:20:34.277> and<00:20:34.357> I'm<00:20:34.438> like,<00:20:34.582> great,<00:20:34.838> you<00:20:34.983> keep<00:20:35.239> that,<00:20:35.480> I'll<00:20:35.624> go<00:20:35.784> do<00:20:35.944> new<00:20:36.201> things.

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So,<00:20:37.301> you<00:20:37.333> know,<00:20:37.543> you<00:20:37.640> just<00:20:37.882> got<00:20:38.043> to<00:20:38.107> make<00:20:38.301> sure<00:20:38.527> those<00:20:38.849> people<00:20:39.172> are<00:20:39.333> being<00:20:39.575> developed<00:20:40.123> as<00:20:40.220> you<00:20:40.445> are.

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What<00:20:42.074> role<00:20:42.380> do<00:20:42.477> you<00:20:42.654> think<00:20:43.751> does<00:20:44.960> empathy<00:20:45.460> play<00:20:45.705> in<00:20:45.866> leadership?

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Empathy<00:20:49.183> is,<00:20:49.488> you<00:20:49.585> know,<00:20:49.906> I<00:20:50.083> think<00:20:50.292> it<00:20:50.372> was<00:20:50.693> undervalued<00:20:51.577> before<00:20:51.914> COVID<00:20:52.396> and<00:20:52.557> now<00:20:52.798> I<00:20:53.023> think<00:20:53.216> it's<00:20:53.923> become<00:20:54.324> one<00:20:54.469> of<00:20:54.549> those<00:20:55.031> hot<00:20:55.369> words.

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When<00:20:56.333> I<00:20:56.413> was<00:20:56.638> at<00:20:56.799> Ketchum,<00:20:57.217> we<00:20:57.442> actually<00:20:57.779> talked<00:20:58.100> a<00:20:58.181> lot<00:20:58.390> about<00:20:58.664> empathy<00:20:59.553> as<00:21:00.264> really<00:21:00.587> important.

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And<00:21:02.785> I<00:21:02.866> think<00:21:03.189> that<00:21:03.593> what<00:21:03.900> empathy<00:21:04.385> means<00:21:04.870> is<00:21:05.047> fearless<00:21:05.354> listening.

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It<00:21:05.597> means<00:21:05.678> making<00:21:05.807> sure<00:21:05.855> that<00:21:05.920> you're<00:21:06.179> really<00:21:08.903> paying<00:21:09.207> attention<00:21:10.009> and<00:21:10.426> reacting.

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And<00:21:12.414> it<00:21:12.574> also<00:21:12.895> means<00:21:13.376> giving<00:21:13.697> people<00:21:13.953> a<00:21:14.033> sense<00:21:14.434> of<00:21:14.578> security<00:21:15.380> at<00:21:15.460> work,<00:21:15.797> which<00:21:15.973> is<00:21:16.118> not<00:21:16.438> always<00:21:16.759> easy.

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But<00:21:17.256> there's<00:21:17.497> a<00:21:17.625> ton<00:21:17.865> of<00:21:18.026> data<00:21:18.282> that<00:21:18.443> shows,<00:21:18.843> right,<00:21:19.020> if<00:21:19.164> people<00:21:19.405> are<00:21:19.565> secure,<00:21:20.992> understand<00:21:21.649> the<00:21:21.729> vision<00:21:22.291> and<00:21:22.371> the<00:21:22.467> mission<00:21:23.092> and<00:21:23.237> what<00:21:23.413> you<00:21:23.557> expect<00:21:24.118> of<00:21:24.215> them,<00:21:24.455> their<00:21:24.680> KPIs<00:21:25.353> are<00:21:25.497> clear,<00:21:25.882> that<00:21:26.059> they're<00:21:26.299> much<00:21:26.620> more,<00:21:27.902> you<00:21:27.983> know,<00:21:28.448> set<00:21:28.929> up<00:21:29.249> to<00:21:29.410> be<00:21:29.586> successful.

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And<00:21:30.612> so<00:21:30.804> I<00:21:30.949> think<00:21:31.189> empathy<00:21:31.991> can<00:21:32.151> be<00:21:32.392> broadly<00:21:33.033> interpreted<00:21:33.755> but<00:21:33.979> can<00:21:34.156> be<00:21:34.460> very<00:21:34.797> valuable<00:21:35.422> to<00:21:35.599> business<00:21:35.999> today,<00:21:36.400> particularly<00:21:37.058> especially<00:21:37.443> with<00:21:37.491> so<00:21:37.523> much<00:21:37.684> going<00:21:37.925> on<00:21:38.021> in<00:21:38.150> the<00:21:38.230> world<00:21:38.567> that's<00:21:39.530> destabilizing<00:21:40.638> for<00:21:40.815> people,<00:21:41.361> creating<00:21:41.859> that<00:21:42.116> safety<00:21:42.742> at<00:21:42.886> work<00:21:43.143> can<00:21:43.304> be<00:21:43.464> really<00:21:43.641> important<00:21:44.331> today.

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I<00:21:45.648> like<00:21:45.857> this<00:21:46.017> idea<00:21:46.258> of<00:21:46.435> fearless<00:21:47.141> listening,<00:21:48.522> 'cause<00:21:48.683> we<00:21:48.907> aren't<00:21:49.164> listening<00:21:49.566> to<00:21:49.710> each<00:21:49.887> other<00:21:50.690> right<00:21:50.931> now,<00:21:51.316> it<00:21:51.412> seems.

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And<00:21:52.922> this<00:21:53.162> idea<00:21:53.500> of<00:21:53.644> like,<00:21:53.901> hey,<00:21:54.704> let's<00:21:55.025> listen<00:21:55.426> to<00:21:55.523> each<00:21:55.812> other<00:21:56.133> and<00:21:56.229> listen<00:21:56.470> to<00:21:56.615> each<00:21:56.791> other<00:21:56.936> without<00:21:57.337> fear<00:21:57.899> of<00:21:57.979> what<00:21:58.140> we<00:21:58.236> might<00:21:58.477> hear,<00:21:59.681> that<00:21:59.906> is<00:22:00.227> a<00:22:00.324> pretty<00:22:00.565> fascinating<00:22:01.046> concept<00:22:01.769> too.

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Yeah,<00:22:03.533> and<00:22:03.614> I<00:22:03.694> mean,<00:22:03.934> I<00:22:04.078> think<00:22:04.319> that's<00:22:04.655> listening<00:22:05.136> to<00:22:05.281> clients<00:22:05.938> but<00:22:06.162> also<00:22:06.499> internal.

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I<00:22:07.381> do<00:22:08.118> small<00:22:08.647> group<00:22:08.919> meetings<00:22:09.384> called<00:22:09.689> Breaks<00:22:10.010> with<00:22:10.186> Barry<00:22:10.587> where<00:22:10.811> I<00:22:10.907> invite<00:22:11.372> people<00:22:11.853> at<00:22:12.093> different<00:22:12.430> levels<00:22:12.991> from<00:22:13.151> around<00:22:13.472> the<00:22:13.552> company<00:22:14.033> to<00:22:14.193> do<00:22:14.434> kind<00:22:14.610> of<00:22:14.819> coffee,<00:22:15.219> and<00:22:15.332> sometimes<00:22:15.716> they're<00:22:15.861> virtual,<00:22:16.293> sometimes<00:22:16.822> they're<00:22:16.983> in<00:22:17.079> person.

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And<00:22:18.682> I<00:22:18.842> find<00:22:19.163> by<00:22:19.467> asking<00:22:19.804> questions,<00:22:20.509> I<00:22:20.589> can<00:22:20.766> hear<00:22:20.990> a<00:22:21.086> lot<00:22:21.327> of<00:22:21.551> things<00:22:21.872> that<00:22:22.609> we<00:22:22.754> might<00:22:23.010> be<00:22:23.154> doing<00:22:23.411> well<00:22:23.667> or<00:22:23.747> we<00:22:23.876> might<00:22:24.148> not<00:22:24.453> be<00:22:24.677> doing<00:22:24.934> well,<00:22:25.238> but<00:22:25.334> it's<00:22:25.511> more<00:22:25.671> candid,<00:22:26.456> it's<00:22:26.681> off<00:22:26.857> the<00:22:27.018> cuff<00:22:27.418> than<00:22:27.723> the<00:22:27.803> employee<00:22:28.396> survey<00:22:28.941> or<00:22:29.085> engagement<00:22:29.679> surveys<00:22:30.208> that<00:22:30.288> we<00:22:30.448> do.

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And<00:22:30.849> we<00:22:31.009> listen<00:22:31.330> to<00:22:31.426> those<00:22:31.666> a<00:22:31.811> lot<00:22:32.067> too,<00:22:32.388> but<00:22:32.548> I<00:22:32.692> think<00:22:33.510> if<00:22:33.574> you<00:22:33.734> ask<00:22:34.055> the<00:22:34.151> tough<00:22:34.472> ask<00:22:34.536> questions,<00:22:34.937> you<00:22:35.098> often<00:22:35.435> get<00:22:35.660> the<00:22:35.821> honest,<00:22:36.222> tough<00:22:36.543> answers.

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But<00:22:37.282> it's<00:22:37.443> hard<00:22:37.860> sometimes<00:22:38.406> as<00:22:38.551> leaders,<00:22:38.888> so<00:22:39.033> you<00:22:39.113> got<00:22:39.209> to<00:22:39.354> put<00:22:39.531> yourself<00:22:39.996> out<00:22:40.237> there<00:22:40.414> and<00:22:40.575> really<00:22:41.683> listen<00:22:42.341> and<00:22:42.502> then<00:22:43.465> be<00:22:43.771> actionable<00:22:44.574> and<00:22:44.670> decide,<00:22:45.232> you<00:22:45.312> know,<00:22:45.634> what<00:22:45.858> you're<00:22:45.955> hearing<00:22:46.517> as<00:22:46.661> you<00:22:46.758> start<00:22:47.015> to<00:22:47.143> hear<00:22:47.336> themes.

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Because<00:22:48.685> sometimes<00:22:49.247> one-offs<00:22:49.745> are<00:22:49.809> not<00:22:50.050> great,<00:22:50.355> but<00:22:50.452> as<00:22:50.596> you<00:22:50.693> start<00:22:50.934> to<00:22:51.078> hear<00:22:51.255> themes,<00:22:51.913> if<00:22:51.994> you<00:22:52.138> don't<00:22:52.443> respond<00:22:52.941> to<00:22:53.102> those,<00:22:53.503> I<00:22:53.648> think<00:22:53.969> then,<00:22:54.451> you<00:22:54.531> know,<00:22:54.708> shame<00:22:55.029> on<00:22:55.254> you<00:22:55.430> because<00:22:55.752> you're<00:22:55.912> not<00:22:56.250> listening<00:22:56.699> to<00:22:56.731> things<00:22:57.020> that<00:22:57.133> are<00:22:57.277> bubbling<00:22:57.679> up<00:22:57.856> in<00:22:57.920> your<00:22:58.080> own<00:22:58.241> company<00:22:58.643> or<00:22:58.787> culture.

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And<00:22:59.301> similarly<00:22:59.847> for<00:23:00.072> clients<00:23:00.570> and<00:23:00.714> their<00:23:02.414> It's<00:23:02.510> interesting,<00:23:02.894> as<00:23:03.055> CEO,<00:23:03.680> you<00:23:03.792> now<00:23:04.096> have<00:23:04.337> to<00:23:04.561> think<00:23:04.881> more<00:23:05.138> and<00:23:05.298> more<00:23:05.699> about<00:23:06.003> what's<00:23:06.180> happening<00:23:06.564> outside<00:23:06.981> of<00:23:07.061> your<00:23:07.221> company,<00:23:07.782> the<00:23:07.862> macroeconomic<00:23:09.384> environment,<00:23:10.170> the—<00:23:10.971> just<00:23:11.307> like<00:23:11.484> there's<00:23:11.932> a<00:23:12.029> bunch<00:23:12.205> of<00:23:12.349> elections<00:23:12.830> in<00:23:12.910> a<00:23:12.990> bunch<00:23:13.166> of<00:23:13.230> countries<00:23:13.775> this<00:23:13.968> year.

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There<00:23:14.865> are<00:23:14.993> all<00:23:15.298> of<00:23:15.394> these<00:23:15.634> different<00:23:16.099> things<00:23:16.996> that<00:23:17.301> as<00:23:17.477> a<00:23:17.541> CEO<00:23:17.974> maybe<00:23:18.278> 20<00:23:18.519> years<00:23:18.759> ago<00:23:18.919> you<00:23:19.063> wouldn't<00:23:19.288> have<00:23:19.400> to<00:23:19.464> have<00:23:19.640> thought<00:23:19.865> about<00:23:20.265> or<00:23:20.442> commented<00:23:20.922> on<00:23:21.387> or<00:23:22.124> talk<00:23:22.381> about<00:23:22.669> that<00:23:22.765> now<00:23:23.070> you<00:23:23.230> do.

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And<00:23:23.550> you've<00:23:23.727> already<00:23:24.063> mentioned<00:23:24.368> like,<00:23:24.528> hey,<00:23:24.752> I<00:23:25.153> listen<00:23:25.409> to<00:23:25.489> news,<00:23:25.890> I<00:23:26.034> read<00:23:26.275> all<00:23:26.371> these<00:23:26.595> different<00:23:26.820> different<00:23:27.751> sources<00:23:28.224> to<00:23:28.322> try<00:23:28.486> to<00:23:28.567> stay<00:23:28.878> aware.

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What<00:23:31.636> is<00:23:31.733> your<00:23:31.878> general<00:23:32.216> feeling<00:23:32.604> on<00:23:32.749> like,<00:23:32.926> hey,<00:23:33.797> as<00:23:33.975> a<00:23:34.039> CEO,<00:23:34.523> I<00:23:34.604> have<00:23:34.717> a<00:23:34.862> responsibility<00:23:35.991> to<00:23:36.217> think<00:23:36.395> about<00:23:36.717> and<00:23:36.863> talk<00:23:37.121> about<00:23:37.927> more<00:23:38.234> than<00:23:38.395> just<00:23:38.637> what's<00:23:38.798> happening<00:23:39.218> inside<00:23:39.524> of<00:23:39.557> my<00:23:39.766> company,<00:23:40.186> but<00:23:40.331> what's<00:23:40.492> happening<00:23:40.831> in<00:23:40.880> the<00:23:40.912> world?

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Yeah,<00:23:42.824> well,<00:23:42.984> you<00:23:43.081> know,<00:23:43.306> we're<00:23:43.788> advising<00:23:44.511> companies<00:23:45.154> all<00:23:45.330> the<00:23:45.491> time,<00:23:46.054> and<00:23:46.214> they're<00:23:46.455> looking<00:23:46.841> at<00:23:47.018> their<00:23:47.178> stakeholders<00:23:48.367> and<00:23:48.544> shareholders<00:23:49.572> and<00:23:49.749> what<00:23:49.846> does<00:23:49.990> that<00:23:50.280> mean,<00:23:50.618> and<00:23:50.795> the<00:23:50.940> valuation<00:23:51.664> of<00:23:51.761> their<00:23:51.922> companies,<00:23:52.710> and,<00:23:53.531> you<00:23:53.709> know,<00:23:53.998> proxy<00:23:54.562> votes<00:23:54.964> and<00:23:55.061> tabulations<00:23:56.107> and<00:23:56.252> all<00:23:56.349> kinds<00:23:56.590> of<00:23:56.622> things.

00:23:56.735 --> 00:24:04.454
So<00:23:58.106> As<00:23:58.202> we<00:23:58.363> look<00:23:58.667> at<00:23:58.780> the<00:23:58.860> macro<00:23:59.325> environment<00:24:00.126> now,<00:24:00.847> it's,<00:24:01.825> you<00:24:01.905> know,<00:24:02.146> some<00:24:02.450> days<00:24:02.771> scary<00:24:03.316> and<00:24:03.476> confusing,<00:24:04.198> right?

00:24:04.534 --> 00:24:14.440
As<00:24:04.678> you<00:24:04.775> say,<00:24:05.095> we've<00:24:05.255> got<00:24:05.656> lots<00:24:05.993> of<00:24:06.073> elections<00:24:06.762> coming<00:24:07.083> up,<00:24:08.061> we've<00:24:08.285> got<00:24:08.702> wars<00:24:09.087> going<00:24:09.407> on,<00:24:09.904> you<00:24:10.000> know,<00:24:10.209> we're<00:24:11.042> seeing<00:24:11.651> escalation<00:24:12.469> of<00:24:12.613> things<00:24:12.950> in<00:24:13.030> different<00:24:13.431> parts<00:24:13.751> of<00:24:13.815> the<00:24:13.895> world.

00:24:15.017 --> 00:24:19.185
Um,<00:24:15.434> there's<00:24:15.899> a<00:24:15.979> lot<00:24:16.220> of<00:24:16.316> inequity,<00:24:17.021> as<00:24:17.181> we've<00:24:17.342> been<00:24:17.518> talking<00:24:17.903> about,<00:24:18.384> a<00:24:18.480> lot<00:24:18.720> of<00:24:18.881> debt.

00:24:19.297 --> 00:24:21.638
So<00:24:20.227> it's<00:24:20.403> not<00:24:20.740> simple<00:24:21.269> right<00:24:21.509> now.

00:24:21.766 --> 00:24:28.194
And<00:24:21.910> then<00:24:22.343> somehow<00:24:23.128> it<00:24:23.433> defies<00:24:23.994> logic<00:24:24.555> and<00:24:25.212> we're<00:24:25.357> actually<00:24:25.693> doing<00:24:25.934> pretty<00:24:26.174> well<00:24:26.495> and<00:24:26.591> the<00:24:26.671> market<00:24:27.056> is<00:24:27.216> doing<00:24:27.521> pretty<00:24:27.697> well,<00:24:28.002> right?

00:24:28.274 --> 00:24:49.097
So<00:24:28.498> trying<00:24:28.819> to<00:24:28.963> really<00:24:29.364> understand<00:24:30.085> and<00:24:30.262> balance<00:24:30.727> those<00:24:30.983> things<00:24:31.528> and<00:24:32.266> look<00:24:32.490> at<00:24:32.730> the<00:24:32.827> short-term<00:24:33.452> forecasts<00:24:34.093> and<00:24:34.173> the<00:24:34.333> long-term<00:24:34.830> forecasts<00:24:35.536> and<00:24:35.953> build<00:24:36.193> our<00:24:36.433> business<00:24:36.930> around<00:24:38.181> the<00:24:38.277> things<00:24:38.678> in<00:24:38.822> this<00:24:39.319> that<00:24:39.543> we're<00:24:39.720> seeing<00:24:40.345> that<00:24:40.505> we<00:24:40.665> think<00:24:40.922> are<00:24:41.066> longer-term<00:24:42.140> shoots<00:24:42.669> that<00:24:42.781> are<00:24:42.845> going<00:24:42.958> to<00:24:43.086> be<00:24:43.182> available<00:24:43.727> for<00:24:43.952> us<00:24:44.192> to<00:24:44.288> grow,<00:24:44.609> but<00:24:44.833> also<00:24:45.026> to<00:24:45.154> really<00:24:45.474> help<00:24:45.715> our<00:24:45.875> clients<00:24:46.532> navigate<00:24:47.254> the<00:24:47.398> complexity<00:24:48.135> of<00:24:48.296> the<00:24:48.440> landscape.

00:24:49.738 --> 00:25:09.858
And<00:24:49.819> a<00:24:49.963> lot<00:24:50.219> of<00:24:50.299> what<00:24:50.524> we're<00:24:50.684> doing<00:24:51.021> on<00:24:51.165> stakeholder<00:24:51.742> engagement,<00:24:52.448> back<00:24:52.704> to<00:24:52.848> listening,<00:24:53.409> is<00:24:53.586> talking<00:24:53.986> to<00:24:54.083> stakeholders,<00:24:54.868> trying<00:24:55.109> to<00:24:55.253> understand<00:24:55.894> what's<00:24:56.086> important<00:24:56.680> to<00:24:56.712> them,<00:24:57.584> what<00:24:57.761> they<00:24:58.003> value<00:24:58.649> in<00:24:58.956> companies,<00:24:59.682> why<00:24:59.940> they're<00:25:00.102> holding<00:25:00.489> shares,<00:25:01.151> why<00:25:01.377> they're<00:25:02.039> voting<00:25:02.378> certain<00:25:02.765> ways,<00:25:03.734> what's<00:25:03.976> important<00:25:04.525> to<00:25:04.622> them<00:25:04.864> in<00:25:04.961> sustainability<00:25:05.720> or<00:25:06.074> executive<00:25:06.702> compensation,<00:25:07.684> so<00:25:07.829> that<00:25:07.990> we<00:25:08.086> can<00:25:08.312> bring<00:25:08.489> that<00:25:08.731> back<00:25:08.972> to<00:25:09.069> our<00:25:09.278> clients.

00:25:10.357 --> 00:25:18.113
So<00:25:10.904> in<00:25:11.049> this<00:25:11.291> changing<00:25:11.629> environment,<00:25:12.418> I<00:25:12.514> think<00:25:12.740> you<00:25:12.901> have<00:25:13.175> to<00:25:13.320> be<00:25:13.625> out<00:25:13.803> there<00:25:14.044> listening<00:25:14.527> more<00:25:14.849> and<00:25:15.091> be<00:25:15.220> more<00:25:15.478> agile<00:25:15.963> with<00:25:16.125> your<00:25:16.238> strategy<00:25:16.949> than<00:25:17.111> you've<00:25:17.418> ever<00:25:17.661> been<00:25:17.838> before.

00:25:19.843 --> 00:25:22.737
You<00:25:19.940> mentioned<00:25:20.247> something<00:25:20.571> there<00:25:20.829> around<00:25:21.233> just<00:25:21.395> how<00:25:21.783> odd<00:25:22.042> this<00:25:22.220> economy<00:25:22.688> is.

00:25:23.462 --> 00:25:26.530
And<00:25:24.865> some<00:25:25.208> sectors<00:25:25.600> are<00:25:25.681> doing<00:25:25.910> extremely<00:25:26.334> well.

00:25:26.758 --> 00:25:31.425
It<00:25:26.824> seems<00:25:27.052> like<00:25:27.150> we're<00:25:27.313> seeing<00:25:27.558> job<00:25:27.949> growth,<00:25:28.766> but<00:25:28.863> it<00:25:28.943> doesn't<00:25:29.346> feel<00:25:29.782> like<00:25:30.152> that<00:25:30.491> to<00:25:30.620> most<00:25:31.039> people.

00:25:31.844 --> 00:25:36.631
And<00:25:32.151> we're<00:25:32.247> in<00:25:32.328> this<00:25:32.570> interesting<00:25:33.053> environment<00:25:33.698> where<00:25:34.504> I<00:25:34.536> don't<00:25:34.729> think<00:25:34.826> anybody<00:25:35.148> really<00:25:35.390> knows<00:25:35.793> where<00:25:36.180> we're<00:25:36.422> at.

00:25:36.841 --> 00:25:40.166
It's<00:25:37.405> just<00:25:38.762> almost<00:25:39.020> like<00:25:39.181> a<00:25:39.198> malaise<00:25:39.827> almost.

00:25:40.295 --> 00:25:43.831
But<00:25:41.442> what<00:25:41.587> are<00:25:41.668> your<00:25:41.845> thoughts<00:25:42.088> on<00:25:42.168> the<00:25:42.249> current<00:25:42.572> macroeconomic<00:25:43.379> environment?

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:45.510
How<00:25:43.960> do<00:25:44.090> you<00:25:44.251> think<00:25:44.429> it<00:25:44.509> shakes<00:25:44.897> out<00:25:45.220> this<00:25:45.397> year?

00:25:48.409 --> 00:25:50.842
I<00:25:48.635> think<00:25:49.279> there's<00:25:49.537> so<00:25:49.779> much<00:25:50.037> at<00:25:50.182> play,<00:25:50.585> right?

00:25:50.891 --> 00:25:52.776
And<00:25:50.987> you<00:25:51.068> look<00:25:51.245> at<00:25:51.374> this<00:25:51.616> country,<00:25:51.858> the<00:25:51.890> election<00:25:52.083> right<00:25:52.132> now,<00:25:52.196> the<00:25:52.244> polls<00:25:52.422> are<00:25:52.518> really<00:25:52.663> close.

00:25:54.890 --> 00:26:05.250
So<00:25:55.082> trying<00:25:55.323> to<00:25:55.468> figure<00:25:55.869> out<00:25:56.046> there,<00:25:57.074> you<00:25:57.170> know,<00:25:57.492> with<00:25:57.716> what's<00:25:57.957> going<00:25:58.279> on<00:25:58.600> in<00:25:58.761> the<00:25:59.258> Middle<00:25:59.564> East<00:25:59.901> and<00:26:00.062> Europe,<00:26:00.543> we<00:26:00.704> now—<00:26:01.170> gas<00:26:01.491> prices<00:26:01.893> went<00:26:02.053> up<00:26:02.230> 50%<00:26:03.419> here<00:26:03.740> at<00:26:03.836> the<00:26:03.981> pumps<00:26:04.382> in<00:26:04.479> the<00:26:04.623> US,<00:26:05.041> right?

00:26:05.298 --> 00:26:21.730
So<00:26:05.523> there's<00:26:05.828> this<00:26:06.486> inflation,<00:26:07.675> um,<00:26:07.932> recession,<00:26:08.751> or,<00:26:09.137> you<00:26:09.233> know,<00:26:10.245> it's—<00:26:10.823> what's<00:26:11.145> interesting<00:26:11.691> to<00:26:11.771> me,<00:26:11.948> and<00:26:12.092> I<00:26:12.189> think<00:26:12.413> what's<00:26:12.670> the<00:26:12.815> hardest<00:26:13.377> thing<00:26:13.618> to<00:26:13.698> navigate,<00:26:14.518> is<00:26:14.743> the<00:26:14.823> more<00:26:15.144> you<00:26:15.305> listen,<00:26:16.268> the<00:26:16.317> more<00:26:16.590> discrepancy<00:26:17.409> there<00:26:17.634> is<00:26:17.810> in<00:26:17.955> the<00:26:18.035> marketplace<00:26:19.079> on<00:26:19.818> what<00:26:20.059> is<00:26:20.364> actually<00:26:20.702> going<00:26:20.846> to<00:26:21.007> play<00:26:21.344> out.

00:26:21.810 --> 00:26:27.874
And<00:26:21.922> so<00:26:22.934> I<00:26:23.095> think<00:26:23.240> I<00:26:23.336> think<00:26:23.672> there's<00:26:23.929> a<00:26:24.154> bit<00:26:24.538> of<00:26:24.635> what<00:26:24.779> I<00:26:24.939> would<00:26:25.100> call<00:26:25.356> short-termism<00:26:26.399> that<00:26:26.559> we<00:26:26.719> have<00:26:27.040> to<00:26:27.184> play<00:26:27.505> right<00:26:27.762> now.

00:26:28.082 --> 00:26:36.629
Is,<00:26:28.868> you<00:26:28.900> know,<00:26:29.285> you<00:26:29.429> have<00:26:29.590> to<00:26:29.686> stick<00:26:30.023> to<00:26:30.151> the<00:26:30.311> long-game<00:26:30.824> strategy,<00:26:31.674> but<00:26:31.851> you<00:26:31.995> have<00:26:32.187> to<00:26:32.316> react<00:26:32.893> to<00:26:33.037> the<00:26:33.134> short<00:26:33.534> game<00:26:33.935> and<00:26:34.096> what's<00:26:34.320> happening<00:26:35.042> day<00:26:35.218> to<00:26:35.363> day<00:26:35.619> and<00:26:35.779> month<00:26:36.100> to<00:26:36.196> month.

00:26:37.207 --> 00:26:48.672
And<00:26:37.287> I<00:26:37.383> think<00:26:37.559> that's<00:26:37.864> making<00:26:38.185> it<00:26:38.345> much<00:26:38.650> more<00:26:38.826> challenging<00:26:39.612> for<00:26:39.788> leaders<00:26:40.269> and<00:26:40.430> businesses<00:26:41.536> is<00:26:41.857> to<00:26:42.611> figure<00:26:43.140> out<00:26:43.541> how<00:26:43.797> to<00:26:43.942> respond<00:26:44.679> in<00:26:44.824> your<00:26:44.920> services<00:26:45.641> and<00:26:45.786> products<00:26:46.347> and<00:26:46.507> pricing<00:26:47.004> and<00:26:47.165> things<00:26:47.486> in<00:26:47.630> the<00:26:47.790> current<00:26:48.047> marketplace.

00:26:48.768 --> 00:26:49.939
But<00:26:48.993> that's<00:26:49.249> the<00:26:49.330> reality.

00:26:50.597 --> 00:26:57.405
Of<00:26:50.838> what<00:26:50.998> it<00:26:51.095> is,<00:26:51.496> is<00:26:51.721> if<00:26:51.833> you<00:26:51.978> try<00:26:52.138> to<00:26:52.299> just,<00:26:53.022> you<00:26:53.102> know,<00:26:53.439> stay<00:26:53.825> the<00:26:53.921> same<00:26:54.467> and<00:26:54.627> don't<00:26:54.868> make<00:26:55.045> any<00:26:55.270> changes,<00:26:55.832> for<00:26:55.992> some<00:26:56.297> businesses<00:26:56.859> that's<00:26:57.116> fine.

00:26:57.518 --> 00:27:01.098
For<00:26:57.662> many<00:26:58.080> other<00:26:58.385> businesses,<00:26:59.123> that's<00:26:59.429> not<00:26:59.669> gonna<00:26:59.846> work<00:27:00.103> in<00:27:00.247> this<00:27:00.488> day<00:27:00.649> and<00:27:00.793> age.

00:27:02.479 --> 00:27:03.876
Barry,<00:27:02.720> thank<00:27:02.881> you<00:27:02.961> so<00:27:03.074> much<00:27:03.218> for<00:27:03.363> coming<00:27:03.603> on.

00:27:03.941 --> 00:27:05.675
Seriously,<00:27:04.246> it's<00:27:04.406> been<00:27:04.487> a<00:27:04.519> pleasure<00:27:05.000> to<00:27:05.145> talk<00:27:05.466> to<00:27:05.611> you.

00:27:05.932 --> 00:27:13.832
We<00:27:06.173> end<00:27:06.349> every<00:27:06.670> interview<00:27:07.297> the<00:27:07.409> exact<00:27:07.810> same<00:27:08.035> way,<00:27:08.918> and<00:27:09.015> that<00:27:09.223> is<00:27:09.336> at<00:27:09.464> CEO.com,<00:27:10.267> we<00:27:10.428> believe<00:27:10.669> the<00:27:10.765> chances<00:27:11.247> one<00:27:11.488> gives<00:27:11.969> is<00:27:12.050> just<00:27:12.274> as<00:27:12.371> important<00:27:12.676> as<00:27:12.788> the<00:27:12.917> chances<00:27:13.254> one<00:27:13.414> takes.

00:27:14.298 --> 00:27:18.135
And<00:27:14.442> I<00:27:14.538> wonder<00:27:14.844> when<00:27:15.165> you<00:27:15.341> hear<00:27:15.646> that,<00:27:15.968> who<00:27:16.144> gave<00:27:16.465> you<00:27:16.706> a<00:27:16.786> chance<00:27:17.124> to<00:27:17.268> get<00:27:17.429> you<00:27:17.573> to<00:27:17.670> where<00:27:17.830> you<00:27:18.007> are<00:27:18.071> today?

00:27:20.077 --> 00:27:28.471
So<00:27:20.302> when<00:27:20.414> I<00:27:20.559> look<00:27:20.799> back<00:27:21.120> at<00:27:21.201> my<00:27:21.297> career,<00:27:21.843> when<00:27:22.003> I<00:27:22.083> was<00:27:22.260> at<00:27:22.469> Ketchum,<00:27:22.950> there<00:27:23.062> was<00:27:23.287> a<00:27:23.303> CEO,<00:27:24.009> Ray<00:27:24.250> Kotcher,<00:27:25.438> who<00:27:26.240> took<00:27:26.497> my<00:27:26.882> career<00:27:27.364> on<00:27:27.444> a<00:27:27.540> different<00:27:27.845> trajectory.

00:27:28.664 --> 00:27:37.170
I<00:27:28.808> had<00:27:29.306> the<00:27:29.466> global<00:27:29.948> job<00:27:30.429> I<00:27:30.734> totally<00:27:31.151> wanted,<00:27:31.536> head<00:27:31.697> of<00:27:31.777> our<00:27:32.018> brand<00:27:32.901> marketing<00:27:33.398> practice,<00:27:33.960> and<00:27:34.104> I<00:27:34.184> had<00:27:34.361> two<00:27:34.682> young<00:27:34.923> kids,<00:27:35.308> and<00:27:35.404> it<00:27:35.565> just,<00:27:36.046> it<00:27:36.271> wasn't<00:27:36.608> working<00:27:36.993> for<00:27:37.073> me.

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It<00:27:37.314> wasn't<00:27:37.651> where<00:27:37.876> you<00:27:38.036> could<00:27:38.213> sit<00:27:38.454> here<00:27:38.694> and<00:27:38.839> talk<00:27:39.079> to<00:27:39.176> China<00:27:39.561> at<00:27:39.754> 9<00:27:39.994> o'clock<00:27:40.315> at<00:27:40.444> night,<00:27:40.781> you<00:27:40.845> know,<00:27:41.086> on<00:27:41.246> your<00:27:42.225> iPad<00:27:42.466> at<00:27:42.546> home<00:27:42.883> or<00:27:43.012> whatever.

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You<00:27:43.573> were<00:27:43.750> in<00:27:43.910> the<00:27:44.055> office,<00:27:44.777> and<00:27:44.953> it<00:27:45.034> was<00:27:45.194> just<00:27:45.371> a<00:27:45.419> very<00:27:45.756> different<00:27:46.061> environment.

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And<00:27:46.783> he<00:27:46.895> said<00:27:47.184> to<00:27:47.265> me,<00:27:47.923> You<00:27:48.003> know<00:27:48.147> what,<00:27:48.469> I<00:27:48.565> think<00:27:48.742> you<00:27:48.870> should<00:27:49.207> move<00:27:49.432> to<00:27:49.592> Atlanta,<00:27:50.074> which<00:27:50.251> is<00:27:50.395> where<00:27:50.491> I<00:27:50.652> grew<00:27:50.957> up.

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Never<00:27:51.391> thought<00:27:51.599> about<00:27:51.776> going<00:27:52.097> back<00:27:52.498> and<00:27:52.739> run<00:27:53.542> our<00:27:53.702> profit<00:27:54.120> center<00:27:54.425> there,<00:27:54.730> which<00:27:54.891> was<00:27:55.051> our<00:27:55.212> Atlanta<00:27:55.693> office<00:27:56.095> at<00:27:56.191> the<00:27:56.335> time<00:27:56.673> that<00:27:56.817> needed<00:27:57.090> a<00:27:57.219> turnaround.

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And<00:27:59.466> I<00:27:59.546> agreed<00:27:59.884> to<00:27:59.964> go<00:28:00.189> down.

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My<00:28:00.686> parents<00:28:01.248> literally<00:28:01.650> helped<00:28:01.874> me<00:28:01.971> find<00:28:02.276> a<00:28:02.356> house<00:28:02.709> in<00:28:02.838> like<00:28:03.030> 6<00:28:03.335> weeks<00:28:03.640> when<00:28:03.737> they<00:28:03.897> thought<00:28:04.122> they'd<00:28:04.283> have<00:28:04.459> their<00:28:04.604> grandkids<00:28:05.166> nearby,<00:28:06.370> um,<00:28:06.627> but<00:28:06.868> trusting<00:28:07.429> in<00:28:07.590> me<00:28:07.911> to<00:28:08.136> run<00:28:08.329> a<00:28:08.393> profit<00:28:08.794> and<00:28:08.955> loss<00:28:09.260> center,<00:28:09.982> to<00:28:10.544> turn<00:28:10.801> around<00:28:11.106> a<00:28:11.202> business,<00:28:11.989> to<00:28:12.968> take<00:28:13.354> on<00:28:13.595> something<00:28:14.092> that<00:28:14.494> I<00:28:14.718> hadn't<00:28:15.120> done<00:28:15.377> or<00:28:15.457> wasn't<00:28:15.842> a<00:28:15.939> clear<00:28:16.179> trajectory<00:28:17.880> made<00:28:18.168> me<00:28:18.425> really<00:28:18.825> believe<00:28:19.386> that<00:28:19.707> I<00:28:19.867> could<00:28:20.332> run<00:28:20.508> a<00:28:20.589> company,<00:28:22.176> take<00:28:22.416> on<00:28:22.657> operations.

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Our<00:28:24.035> finance<00:28:24.516> team<00:28:24.660> was<00:28:24.837> amazing<00:28:25.462> to<00:28:25.542> help<00:28:25.718> me<00:28:25.863> get<00:28:26.039> through<00:28:26.199> those<00:28:26.504> first<00:28:26.760> months.

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And<00:28:27.882> so<00:28:28.059> I<00:28:28.267> think<00:28:28.508> when<00:28:28.668> you<00:28:28.828> have<00:28:29.101> a<00:28:29.229> leader<00:28:29.566> that<00:28:29.806> sees<00:28:30.191> things<00:28:30.511> in<00:28:30.672> you<00:28:30.928> that<00:28:31.249> you<00:28:31.409> might<00:28:31.714> not<00:28:31.906> see<00:28:32.130> in<00:28:32.211> yourself<00:28:32.852> and<00:28:33.012> pushes<00:28:33.397> you<00:28:33.557> out<00:28:33.717> of<00:28:33.749> your<00:28:33.958> comfort<00:28:34.294> zone,<00:28:35.401> it's—<00:28:35.817> I<00:28:35.962> think<00:28:36.218> led<00:28:36.523> to<00:28:36.635> me<00:28:36.859> being<00:28:37.180> much<00:28:37.484> more<00:28:37.645> comfortable<00:28:38.366> out<00:28:38.478> of<00:28:38.526> my<00:28:38.783> comfort<00:28:39.200> zone,<00:28:39.648> volunteering<00:28:40.546> for<00:28:40.706> new<00:28:40.931> things<00:28:41.348> and<00:28:41.668> trying<00:28:42.053> jobs<00:28:42.374> like<00:28:42.550> this<00:28:42.710> one<00:28:42.871> at<00:28:42.951> Morro<00:28:43.191> Sedale<00:28:43.752> that<00:28:43.913> might<00:28:44.137> not<00:28:44.249> have<00:28:44.393> been<00:28:44.554> that<00:28:44.794> perfect<00:28:45.259> fit<00:28:45.580> when<00:28:45.740> I<00:28:45.836> looked<00:28:46.077> on<00:28:46.237> paper<00:28:46.557> and<00:28:46.702> checked<00:28:47.022> every<00:28:47.279> box,<00:28:48.305> but<00:28:48.690> I<00:28:48.786> could<00:28:48.978> see<00:28:49.283> my<00:28:49.523> ability<00:28:50.164> to<00:28:50.260> morph<00:28:50.741> and<00:28:50.870> engage<00:28:51.350> and<00:28:51.591> take<00:28:52.008> this<00:28:52.232> company<00:28:52.649> and<00:28:52.809> grow<00:28:53.114> it.

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And<00:28:53.514> I<00:28:53.595> think,<00:28:54.556> I<00:28:54.637> hope<00:28:54.957> everyone<00:28:55.438> gets<00:28:55.695> a<00:28:55.759> chance<00:28:56.159> to<00:28:56.256> do<00:28:56.416> that,<00:28:56.801> you<00:28:56.881> know,<00:28:57.041> have<00:28:57.217> someone<00:28:57.602> that<00:28:57.778> pushes<00:28:58.163> you<00:28:58.259> a<00:28:58.339> little<00:28:58.580> more<00:28:58.740> out<00:28:59.125> there<00:28:59.446> than<00:29:00.167> you<00:29:00.263> might<00:29:00.584> think<00:29:00.888> is<00:29:01.049> comfortable.

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But<00:29:02.171> once<00:29:02.491> you<00:29:02.668> kind<00:29:02.892> of<00:29:03.068> show<00:29:03.469> that<00:29:03.613> you<00:29:03.709> can<00:29:03.950> do<00:29:04.110> that,<00:29:04.511> you<00:29:04.832> prove<00:29:05.136> to<00:29:05.200> yourself<00:29:05.633> and<00:29:05.857> others<00:29:06.258> that<00:29:06.419> there's<00:29:06.659> a<00:29:06.739> lot<00:29:06.867> more<00:29:07.076> you<00:29:07.236> can<00:29:07.396> take<00:29:07.701> on<00:29:07.877> in<00:29:08.198> business<00:29:08.679> and<00:29:08.823> in<00:29:08.919> life.

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Mary,<00:29:11.388> thank<00:29:11.628> you<00:29:11.708> so<00:29:11.901> much.

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Seriously,<00:29:12.846> an<00:29:12.927> honor<00:29:13.167> to<00:29:13.327> talk<00:29:13.584> to<00:29:13.712> you.

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Uh,<00:29:14.289> best<00:29:14.530> of<00:29:14.674> luck<00:29:14.850> with<00:29:14.946> everything<00:29:15.235> in<00:29:15.347> the<00:29:15.379> future.

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Great.

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Thank<00:29:17.485> you.

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I<00:29:17.894> really<00:29:18.139> enjoyed<00:29:18.630> it<00:29:18.793> today<00:29:19.120> and<00:29:19.202> hope<00:29:19.447> your<00:29:19.627> listeners<00:29:20.199> do<00:29:20.363> as<00:29:20.526> well.