In math we trust

Tyler Moebius is a Star Alliance member. His son goes to university in Switzerland, so he flies Swiss and Lufthansa now. Both are in the alliance. His United miles should upgrade him. They don't, not without a fight.

"The friction makes it almost impossible," he said on the CEO.com Podcast.

That is the entire thesis of his company, stated as a personal grievance. Moebius is the founder, Group CEO, and Chairman of SmartMedia Technologies, which is trying to put a token behind every loyalty point so the points can move between programs. Interoperability is the goal. Utility is the argument. Nobody redeems points they can't easily spend.

A second argument targets the finance department. Points are a liability. They sit on the balance sheet as one, accruing, waiting. Tokenize them, make them easier to spend, and the liability comes down while the member gets something they actually wanted. Both sides win, which is the kind of claim that is either true or the reason the company exists. His pitch is simpler: tap to pay with your phone using loyalty points.

He has been building on the internet long enough to be relaxed about it all. He joined the founding team of one of the first ad servers in 1997, went public, sold to Microsoft, and has started five companies since. He remembers being in his 20s at a cocktail party while one of his mother's friends explained that the internet was a fad.

SmartMedia Technologies was founded in 2019 with Reeve Collins, a co-founder Moebius has worked with for 20 years. In 2015, Collins co-founded Tether. They got out. "You don't want to be Americans trying to create the world's new currency reserve," Moebius said, which is a sentence worth sitting with given what Tether became.

We spoke on December 5, 2024, the day after Bitcoin first crossed $100,000, when Web3 was still recovering its reputation from FTX and every startup that had been a blockchain company in 2021 had quietly become an AI company. Moebius rode the dot-com boom and bust and doesn't think the pattern is complicated. Speculation arrives, speculation leaves, the protocol keeps working. Stablecoins and DeFi are where the technology found its footing.

His explanation of what sits underneath it is better than most:

A public ledger is a spreadsheet everyone can see. On top of it is a consensus framework, which lets value move from one party to another using math. "It used to be in God we trust, and then it was in gold we trust, and then it was in the US greenback promissory note, the GDP of America I trust, and now it's in math I trust." You and I can swap dollar bills without either of us losing anything. If mine is signed by Tom Brady, we are not swapping. That is a smart contract. Everything else was people betting an ape would be worth more tomorrow, which has also happened with stocks, sports cards, and land in Florida.

The company's most visible deployment was Paris 2024. Working with the IOC, SmartMedia launched My Olympic Rewards, which paid fans points for everyday fandom, and let Olympic partners connect their own programs to it. Samsung gave points for finishing health challenges in its app. Visa gave points for qualified card transactions. Intel let fans generate a one-of-one loyalty badge from their own prompts, which Moebius described as "a one-of-a-kind degenerative piece of art," a slip I am keeping because everyone who has ever pitched generative AI on a podcast has made it.

The AI is not decoration. He spent 15 years building systems to decide which ad to show which person on which device at which moment, so a recommendation engine for which offer you'll redeem your points against is the same problem wearing different clothes.

His days start at 4:45 or 5:00 with the Waking Up app, which he found at what he calls a pivotal point in his life. Meditation, dog, espresso. At 7:00, four children get up and, in his words, the circus wakes up. Then the office, where most of his time goes to the scale-up: go-to-market, roadmap, what gets built first.

He is back in the office because he made himself go back. The company had a strong in-office culture before COVID, and he is not sure it survived. He calls not looking harder at that sooner a mistake of his, and he does not pretend to have fixed it. Once you have hired remote people, you cannot easily reverse it without doing something drastic, and he has watched other companies do the drastic thing.

On mental health, he is not careful. He has been through it, the company has been through it, and his conclusion is that treating it as taboo makes it worse. Talk about it. Make sure people know who to call. He also thinks the country is nowhere near equipped for the scale of it and says so bluntly.

Ask him what leadership is, and you get passion first, resilience second. He has been in the fetal position over hard decisions more than once. The line he hates is "it's not personal, it's business." It's absolutely personal. We are all humans. Make the call with empathy and confidence at the same time, and when the front door is locked, find the open window. That last one is his mother's.

Asked about the economy in 2025, he said, "I have no idea," which Clint correctly identified as a great answer. He was cautiously optimistic and expected the tariffs to produce secondary effects nobody had modeled. He also said Elon Musk was now in charge of the DOJ, meaning DOGE, the cost-cutting effort Musk had been named to lead a few weeks earlier. The underlying point, that the incoming administration had turned crypto from a headwind into a tailwind, held up.

It has held up commercially too. In June 2026 the company announced it was scaling its SmartPoints protocol into a global payments network, with investment and advisors including Janus Henderson Investors and Brian Kelly of The Points Guy, who joined as both. The framing has shifted from Web3 marketing to loyalty and payments infrastructure, and the current pitch is that banks and Fortune 500 brands can use SMT to issue their own branded stablecoins. The technology already runs inside Visa's Web3 Loyalty Engagement Solution and Huntington Bank, and has been activated at the Olympics and across the NBA, NFL, MLB, and FIFA.

That is a long way from where the company started. When SMT came out of stealth in January 2021, it called itself a MadTech platform running a self-serve audience activation and real-time programmatic buying stack, off more than $80 million in 2020 sales. The blockchain piece was in there, buried at the bottom as something called a SmartMedia Object. Five years later, that is the whole company, and it sells to card issuers.

At CEO.com, we believe the chances one gives are as important as the chances one takes. Moebius names his brother-in-law, who hired him out of college as the fifth employee at a dot-com and thereby started everything. And the chairman at the company he founded in his 20s, where he raised $89 million and, more usefully, was mentored by someone willing to sit with him while he learned what to do with it.

00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:20 Tyler's Path to Founding Smart Media Technologies
00:02:28 My Olympic Rewards Program at Paris 2024
00:03:44 The State of Web3 and Blockchain
00:06:32 The Opportunity in Loyalty Programs
00:08:13 AI's Impact on Smart Media Technologies
00:09:46 Understanding NFTs and Smart Contracts
00:12:27 A Day in the Life of Tyler
00:14:18 Company Culture and Hybrid Work
00:16:04 Reading Recommendations and Leadership Insights
00:19:59 Mental Health in the Tech Industry
00:22:43 Economic Outlook for 2025
00:26:09 Who Gave Tyler His Chance

WEBVTT

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Let's<00:00:15.985> just<00:00:16.098> start<00:00:16.340> with<00:00:16.502> like<00:00:16.825> how<00:00:16.986> you<00:00:17.083> became<00:00:17.406> the<00:00:17.486> CEO<00:00:18.051> of<00:00:18.212> Smart<00:00:18.519> Media<00:00:18.761> Technologies<00:00:19.342> and<00:00:19.423> what<00:00:19.584> the<00:00:19.681> company<00:00:19.988> does.

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Um,<00:00:22.650> well,<00:00:23.038> I<00:00:23.054> founded<00:00:23.457> it,<00:00:23.715> so<00:00:23.861> that's<00:00:24.087> always<00:00:24.264> an<00:00:24.409> easy<00:00:24.651> way<00:00:24.910> to<00:00:25.055> give<00:00:25.120> yourself<00:00:26.188> the<00:00:26.285> title.

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Yeah,<00:02:28.511> yeah.

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It<00:04:07.142> was<00:04:07.190> more<00:04:07.286> just<00:04:07.463> like<00:04:07.927> fraudulent<00:04:08.344> as<00:04:08.489> you'd<00:04:08.601> see<00:04:08.729> in<00:04:08.825> any<00:04:09.627> industry.

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It<00:04:10.092> was<00:04:10.188> kind<00:04:10.332> of<00:04:10.364> my<00:04:10.525> sense<00:04:10.909> of<00:04:10.990> it.

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And<00:04:11.615> we're<00:04:11.775> also<00:04:12.032> talking<00:04:12.417> on<00:04:12.978> a<00:04:13.138> day,<00:04:13.459> the<00:04:13.539> day<00:04:13.779> after<00:04:14.276> Bitcoin<00:04:14.837> for<00:04:14.982> the<00:04:15.014> first<00:04:15.318> time<00:04:15.703> hit<00:04:15.960> over<00:04:16.184> $100K.

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It<00:04:17.723> does<00:04:18.044> feel<00:04:18.284> like<00:04:18.541> it's<00:04:18.765> kind<00:04:19.086> of<00:04:19.246> coming<00:04:19.647> back<00:04:20.753> into<00:04:20.994> the<00:04:21.074> mainstream.

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Not<00:04:21.811> that<00:04:21.908> it<00:04:22.036> ever<00:04:22.196> went<00:04:22.357> away,<00:04:22.613> you<00:04:22.693> know<00:04:22.741> what<00:04:22.854> I<00:04:22.870> mean?

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But<00:04:23.158> it's<00:04:23.318> kind<00:04:23.479> of<00:04:23.655> coming<00:04:23.960> more<00:04:24.377> back<00:04:24.697> into<00:04:24.858> like<00:04:25.082> the<00:04:25.162> startup<00:04:25.659> and<00:04:25.739> tech<00:04:25.980> community.

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In<00:04:27.888> a<00:04:27.984> way<00:04:28.289> where,<00:04:29.010> you<00:04:29.091> know,<00:04:29.828> it's<00:04:29.941> not<00:04:30.069> exactly<00:04:30.614> like<00:04:30.855> where<00:04:31.031> it<00:04:31.095> was<00:04:31.336> at<00:04:31.416> its<00:04:31.512> height<00:04:31.817> in<00:04:31.913> COVID,<00:04:32.314> but<00:04:32.458> it's—<00:04:33.052> anyways,<00:04:33.821> give<00:04:33.918> me<00:04:33.998> the<00:04:34.078> sense<00:04:34.383> for<00:04:34.704> how<00:04:34.864> you<00:04:34.976> see<00:04:35.201> it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You<00:04:36.724> know,<00:04:37.927> luckily,<00:04:38.969> as<00:04:39.114> you<00:04:39.194> can<00:04:39.242> see<00:04:39.515> from<00:04:39.675> the<00:04:39.755> gray<00:04:40.012> hair,<00:04:40.653> when<00:04:40.813> I<00:04:40.910> started<00:04:41.840> in<00:04:42.016> 1997,<00:04:43.524> I<00:04:43.604> got<00:04:43.780> to<00:04:43.941> ride<00:04:44.406> the<00:04:44.662> dot-com<00:04:45.143> boom<00:04:45.368> and<00:04:45.464> bust,<00:04:45.849> right?

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So<00:04:46.410> I<00:04:46.683> specifically<00:04:47.453> remember<00:04:48.447> some<00:04:48.591> of<00:04:48.736> my<00:04:48.848> mom's<00:04:49.297> friends<00:04:50.019> at<00:04:50.115> like,<00:04:50.676> at,<00:04:50.981> you<00:04:51.077> know,<00:04:51.542> a<00:04:51.783> cocktail<00:04:52.264> party<00:04:53.226> when<00:04:53.338> I'm<00:04:53.498> in<00:04:53.643> my<00:04:53.803> 20s<00:04:54.284> telling<00:04:54.540> me<00:04:54.765> that<00:04:54.925> the<00:04:55.085> internet<00:04:55.406> was<00:04:55.566> a<00:04:55.710> fad.

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And<00:04:56.512> so,<00:04:57.153> um,<00:04:57.874> so,<00:04:58.371> you<00:04:58.451> know,<00:04:59.012> we<00:04:59.156> know<00:04:59.477> that<00:04:59.733> like<00:05:00.535> these,<00:05:00.855> you<00:05:00.919> know,<00:05:01.080> Gartner's<00:05:01.416> hype<00:05:01.641> cycle<00:05:02.522> and<00:05:03.163> where,<00:05:03.580> you<00:05:03.660> know,<00:05:03.901> Web3<00:05:05.183> definitely,<00:05:05.744> you<00:05:05.824> know,<00:05:05.984> came<00:05:06.225> onto<00:05:06.529> the<00:05:06.561> scene,<00:05:07.571> um,<00:05:07.972> NFTs.

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And<00:05:09.510> just<00:05:09.735> like<00:05:10.536> in<00:05:10.873> the<00:05:10.969> dot-com<00:05:11.386> era<00:05:12.139> where<00:05:12.315> everybody's<00:05:12.796> buying<00:05:13.101> stock<00:05:13.517> in<00:05:14.078> eToys<00:05:14.639> and<00:05:14.944> Pets.com<00:05:15.777> or<00:05:15.922> what<00:05:16.066> have<00:05:16.386> you,<00:05:17.028> yeah,<00:05:17.669> a<00:05:17.765> lot<00:05:17.941> of<00:05:18.005> speculation<00:05:18.967> came<00:05:19.191> into<00:05:19.432> Web3,<00:05:20.009> right?

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And<00:05:20.570> so<00:05:22.318> and<00:05:22.414> then<00:05:23.136> that<00:05:24.083> went<00:05:24.244> away.

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And<00:05:26.747> but<00:05:27.213> it<00:05:27.309> doesn't<00:05:27.694> mean<00:05:27.871> that<00:05:28.096> the<00:05:28.336> underlying<00:05:29.540> technology<00:05:30.824> and<00:05:30.920> the<00:05:31.065> protocol<00:05:32.927> isn't<00:05:33.151> legitimate<00:05:33.729> and<00:05:33.889> isn't<00:05:34.194> being<00:05:34.451> used.

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Right.

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And<00:05:35.430> so<00:05:35.880> you<00:05:36.040> couple<00:05:36.457> that<00:05:36.698> with<00:05:36.859> the<00:05:36.939> fact<00:05:37.340> that<00:05:38.367> ChatGPT<00:05:39.427> launches<00:05:40.534> and<00:05:40.630> now<00:05:41.112> everybody's<00:05:41.609> attention<00:05:42.139> is<00:05:42.235> now<00:05:42.476> all<00:05:42.620> around<00:05:43.198> generative<00:05:43.664> AI<00:05:44.065> and<00:05:44.177> AI<00:05:44.546> and<00:05:44.643> so<00:05:44.803> forth.

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Right.

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So<00:05:47.708> So<00:05:47.933> in<00:05:48.094> terms<00:05:48.335> of<00:05:48.415> where<00:05:48.592> is<00:05:48.737> Web3<00:05:49.122> today,<00:05:50.488> it<00:05:50.648> has<00:05:50.906> definitely<00:05:51.452> found<00:05:52.271> product<00:05:52.576> market<00:05:52.914> fit<00:05:53.621> and<00:05:54.504> is<00:05:55.243> particularly<00:05:55.806> around<00:05:56.930> the<00:05:57.011> use<00:05:57.236> of<00:05:57.268> stablecoins<00:05:58.862> and<00:05:59.184> DeFi.

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And<00:06:01.358> it's<00:06:01.519> really<00:06:02.147> only<00:06:02.404> because<00:06:02.871> of,<00:06:03.274> you<00:06:03.306> know,<00:06:03.467> stablecoins<00:06:04.401> like<00:06:04.642> Tether<00:06:05.931> that<00:06:06.414> it's<00:06:06.591> going<00:06:06.752> to<00:06:06.897> enable<00:06:07.867> new<00:06:08.029> solutions<00:06:09.257> like<00:06:09.984> being<00:06:10.146> able<00:06:10.372> to<00:06:10.534> tokenize<00:06:11.035> every<00:06:11.342> loyalty<00:06:11.762> point<00:06:12.102> to<00:06:12.570> make<00:06:12.797> them<00:06:12.910> interoperable.

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That<00:06:14.937> is<00:06:15.083> really<00:06:15.244> gonna<00:06:15.422> unlock<00:06:15.810> these<00:06:15.987> new<00:06:16.133> types<00:06:16.407> of<00:06:16.472> solutions,<00:06:17.118> and<00:06:17.167> we'll<00:06:17.425> just<00:06:17.587> continue<00:06:18.007> to<00:06:18.087> see<00:06:18.330> new<00:06:18.556> applications<00:06:19.218> and<00:06:19.315> new<00:06:19.396> solutions<00:06:20.511> built<00:06:20.753> from<00:06:20.979> Web3,<00:06:21.658> so.

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Yeah,<00:06:22.304> the<00:06:22.433> loyalty<00:06:22.918> point<00:06:23.257> thing<00:06:23.483> that<00:06:23.596> you're<00:06:23.710> doing<00:06:24.372> is<00:06:24.549> a<00:06:24.856> great<00:06:25.502> use<00:06:25.761> case<00:06:26.552> for<00:06:26.649> Web3<00:06:27.134> and<00:06:27.215> the<00:06:27.295> blockchain.

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How<00:06:29.056> did<00:06:29.217> you<00:06:29.250> see<00:06:29.557> that<00:06:29.718> opportunity<00:06:30.364> existing?

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Yeah,<00:06:34.688> you<00:06:34.721> know,<00:06:34.947> I<00:06:35.109> think<00:06:35.416> any<00:06:35.577> of<00:06:35.674> us<00:06:36.062> who<00:06:36.143> have<00:06:36.240> joined<00:06:36.499> a<00:06:36.564> loyalty<00:06:36.968> program,<00:06:37.841> you<00:06:37.921> know,<00:06:38.099> we<00:06:38.245> really<00:06:38.423> don't<00:06:38.762> see,<00:06:39.538> you<00:06:39.619> know,<00:06:40.039> consumer<00:06:40.783> sentiment<00:06:41.397> is<00:06:41.559> that<00:06:41.818> there's<00:06:42.044> just<00:06:42.190> not<00:06:42.402> a<00:06:42.419> lot<00:06:42.649> of<00:06:42.790> value.

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And<00:06:44.806> when<00:06:45.143> you<00:06:45.287> really<00:06:45.479> sit<00:06:45.704> back<00:06:46.040> and<00:06:46.248> look<00:06:46.441> at<00:06:46.585> that,<00:06:46.889> it's<00:06:47.290> really<00:06:47.546> because<00:06:47.851> there's<00:06:48.027> a<00:06:48.107> lack<00:06:48.364> of<00:06:48.492> utility.

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It's<00:06:50.206> hard.

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I'm<00:06:50.911> part<00:06:51.152> of<00:06:51.232> Star<00:06:51.632> Alliance.

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I<00:06:52.994> have<00:06:53.155> a<00:06:53.235> whole<00:06:53.459> lot<00:06:53.635> of<00:06:53.715> United<00:06:54.116> miles.

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My<00:06:55.238> son<00:06:55.542> is<00:06:55.879> going<00:06:56.119> to<00:06:56.584> university<00:06:57.160> in<00:06:57.305> Switzerland,<00:06:57.866> so<00:06:58.026> I'm<00:06:58.186> now<00:06:58.362> flying<00:06:58.907> Swissair<00:06:59.484> and<00:06:59.788> Lufthansa<00:07:00.606> a<00:07:00.670> lot<00:07:00.910> more.

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And<00:07:01.952> I'd<00:07:02.112> love<00:07:02.304> to<00:07:02.384> be<00:07:02.528> able<00:07:02.673> to<00:07:02.769> just<00:07:03.009> use<00:07:03.249> my,<00:07:03.650> my<00:07:03.874> United<00:07:04.211> points<00:07:04.531> to<00:07:04.836> easily<00:07:05.252> upgrade<00:07:05.733> for<00:07:06.694> upgrade<00:07:07.319> on<00:07:07.416> Lufthansa,<00:07:07.976> which<00:07:08.153> is<00:07:08.297> part<00:07:08.537> of<00:07:08.617> the<00:07:08.681> Star<00:07:08.922> Alliance.

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But<00:07:09.739> the<00:07:09.883> friction<00:07:10.300> makes<00:07:10.540> it<00:07:10.604> almost<00:07:10.861> impossible.

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Right,<00:07:11.806> and<00:07:11.919> so<00:07:13.571> we<00:07:13.667> saw<00:07:13.844> a<00:07:13.908> clear<00:07:14.293> use<00:07:14.534> case<00:07:14.806> around,<00:07:15.416> wow,<00:07:16.379> you<00:07:16.411> know,<00:07:16.539> if<00:07:16.635> you<00:07:16.780> had<00:07:16.940> an<00:07:17.117> underlying<00:07:17.678> token<00:07:18.159> backing<00:07:18.561> every<00:07:18.801> loyalty<00:07:19.266> point,<00:07:19.924> you<00:07:20.085> could<00:07:20.550> make<00:07:20.887> every<00:07:21.127> loyalty<00:07:21.529> point<00:07:21.769> interoperable.

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So<00:07:22.635> a<00:07:22.716> very<00:07:22.972> clear<00:07:23.357> use<00:07:23.534> case.

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And,<00:07:24.817> you<00:07:24.898> know,<00:07:25.042> that's<00:07:25.283> been<00:07:25.443> reinforced<00:07:26.245> recently<00:07:27.849> with<00:07:28.411> the<00:07:28.507> tokenization<00:07:29.149> of<00:07:29.309> real-world<00:07:29.855> assets.

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So<00:07:30.432> everybody's<00:07:31.235> tokenizing<00:07:31.940> assets.

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Well,<00:07:33.080> points<00:07:33.481> are<00:07:33.625> liabilities,<00:07:34.523> right?

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And<00:07:35.165> so<00:07:35.310> it<00:07:35.342> sits<00:07:35.711> on<00:07:35.791> the<00:07:35.887> balance<00:07:36.272> sheet<00:07:36.465> as<00:07:36.609> a<00:07:36.673> liability.

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So<00:07:37.893> we're<00:07:38.118> tokenizing<00:07:38.857> that<00:07:39.082> liability<00:07:40.287> and<00:07:40.624> we're<00:07:40.865> able<00:07:41.026> to<00:07:41.267> reduce<00:07:41.733> the<00:07:41.830> liability<00:07:42.392> for<00:07:42.617> those<00:07:42.858> brands<00:07:43.742> and<00:07:43.838> get<00:07:44.400> consumers<00:07:45.043> to<00:07:45.589> redeem<00:07:46.007> those<00:07:46.248> points<00:07:47.212> simply<00:07:47.598> by<00:07:47.758> just<00:07:47.919> making<00:07:48.080> them<00:07:48.273> interoperable<00:07:49.124> and<00:07:49.446> adding<00:07:49.928> more<00:07:50.088> utility<00:07:50.763> to<00:07:50.908> it.

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And<00:07:52.273> how<00:07:52.530> is<00:07:52.820> AI<00:07:54.185> changing<00:07:54.828> things?

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Because<00:07:55.487> that<00:07:55.631> was<00:07:55.792> kind<00:07:55.873> of<00:07:55.905> like<00:07:56.130> the<00:07:56.371> immediately<00:07:56.933> after<00:07:57.174> Web3,<00:07:57.656> like<00:07:57.817> everybody<00:07:58.202> was<00:07:58.299> an<00:07:58.443> AI<00:07:58.700> startup,<00:07:59.166> you<00:07:59.231> know?

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Yeah.

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Like<00:08:00.227> everybody<00:08:00.468> was<00:08:00.612> a<00:08:00.693> Web3<00:08:01.111> startup<00:08:01.432> for<00:08:01.576> a<00:08:01.593> second<00:08:01.898> and<00:08:01.994> then<00:08:02.251> now<00:08:02.412> everyone's<00:08:02.798> an<00:08:02.942> AI<00:08:03.199> startup.

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But<00:08:03.826> how<00:08:04.004> are<00:08:04.149> you<00:08:04.391> looking<00:08:04.714> at<00:08:04.794> that<00:08:04.972> technology?

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How<00:08:05.666> is<00:08:05.779> it<00:08:05.859> affecting<00:08:07.231> your<00:08:07.473> company<00:08:08.037> and<00:08:08.199> what<00:08:08.441> use<00:08:08.667> cases<00:08:08.957> do<00:08:09.086> you<00:08:09.183> see<00:08:10.199> it<00:08:10.361> kind<00:08:10.538> of<00:08:10.619> delivering<00:08:11.168> on<00:08:11.248> in<00:08:11.410> the<00:08:11.490> future?

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Yeah,<00:08:13.548> so<00:08:16.298> my<00:08:16.719> heritage<00:08:17.431> has<00:08:17.690> been<00:08:18.401> in<00:08:19.129> ad<00:08:19.307> tech<00:08:20.019> and<00:08:21.718> being<00:08:21.977> able<00:08:22.090> to<00:08:22.219> build<00:08:22.650> large-scale<00:08:23.170> systems<00:08:23.739> to<00:08:23.902> be<00:08:23.983> able<00:08:24.129> to<00:08:24.178> determine<00:08:24.617> what<00:08:24.714> is<00:08:24.861> the<00:08:24.958> right<00:08:25.349> ad<00:08:25.625> to<00:08:25.755> show<00:08:26.097> to<00:08:26.243> the<00:08:26.324> right<00:08:26.584> user<00:08:26.893> on<00:08:26.975> the<00:08:27.056> right<00:08:27.300> device<00:08:27.723> at<00:08:27.804> the<00:08:27.950> right<00:08:28.194> time,<00:08:28.698> right?

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And<00:08:30.870> the—<00:08:31.512> and<00:08:31.593> so<00:08:32.636> there's<00:08:32.813> been<00:08:32.973> a<00:08:33.053> handful<00:08:33.535> of<00:08:33.615> companies<00:08:34.081> that<00:08:34.177> have<00:08:34.402> used<00:08:34.643> machine<00:08:35.044> learning,<00:08:36.087> right?

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AI<00:08:37.725> for<00:08:37.869> the<00:08:37.949> last<00:08:38.270> 15<00:08:38.736> years.

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So<00:08:39.458> it's<00:08:39.635> always<00:08:40.181> been<00:08:40.421> part<00:08:40.823> of<00:08:40.983> my<00:08:41.160> DNA<00:08:41.882> in<00:08:42.027> understanding<00:08:42.669> how<00:08:42.765> to<00:08:42.925> leverage<00:08:43.487> machine<00:08:43.808> learning<00:08:44.113> models.

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And<00:08:44.531> now<00:08:44.771> with<00:08:44.852> generative<00:08:45.397> AI,<00:08:47.340> we're<00:08:48.126> looking<00:08:48.447> at<00:08:48.624> every<00:08:48.929> way<00:08:49.106> that<00:08:49.330> we<00:08:49.427> can<00:08:50.855> leverage<00:08:51.208> it,<00:08:51.834> whether<00:08:52.155> that's,<00:08:53.584> you<00:08:53.664> know,<00:08:54.001> being<00:08:54.226> able<00:08:54.483> to<00:08:54.627> create<00:08:55.109> a<00:08:55.366> one-of-a-kind<00:08:56.249> NFT<00:08:57.292> that<00:08:57.597> is<00:08:57.934> where<00:08:58.720> the,<00:08:59.634> the<00:08:59.763> fan<00:09:00.244> was<00:09:00.404> able<00:09:00.613> to<00:09:00.741> put<00:09:00.966> in<00:09:01.062> their<00:09:01.222> prompts<00:09:01.784> in<00:09:01.864> terms<00:09:02.121> of<00:09:02.265> what<00:09:02.426> was<00:09:02.586> their<00:09:02.747> favorite,<00:09:03.613> what's<00:09:03.789> their<00:09:03.934> favorite<00:09:04.255> sport<00:09:04.688> at<00:09:04.816> the<00:09:04.896> Olympics,<00:09:05.394> who's<00:09:05.554> their<00:09:05.714> favorite<00:09:06.035> team,<00:09:07.624> what's<00:09:07.784> their<00:09:07.864> favorite<00:09:08.121> country.

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And<00:09:09.228> then<00:09:09.324> by<00:09:09.485> taking<00:09:09.805> those<00:09:10.046> prompts,<00:09:10.431> we're<00:09:10.624> able<00:09:10.768> to<00:09:11.233> create<00:09:11.714> a<00:09:11.971> one-of-a-kind<00:09:12.918> generative<00:09:13.495> piece<00:09:13.720> of<00:09:13.816> art,<00:09:14.362> right?

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Using,<00:09:15.324> using<00:09:15.565> that,<00:09:15.902> using<00:09:16.222> AI.

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We're<00:09:17.570> also<00:09:17.891> using<00:09:18.228> it<00:09:18.709> for<00:09:19.030> determining<00:09:20.137> what<00:09:20.474> loyalty<00:09:21.019> offers<00:09:21.436> we<00:09:21.597> think<00:09:21.837> that<00:09:22.158> you<00:09:22.303> most<00:09:22.704> likely<00:09:23.041> are<00:09:23.185> going<00:09:23.442> to<00:09:23.586> want<00:09:23.747> to<00:09:23.907> use<00:09:24.067> your<00:09:24.164> points<00:09:24.485> to<00:09:24.629> redeem<00:09:25.030> as<00:09:25.190> like<00:09:25.383> a<00:09:25.511> recommendation<00:09:26.249> engine.

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So<00:09:28.415> we<00:09:29.281> wholeheartedly<00:09:30.420> are<00:09:30.581> leaning<00:09:30.982> into<00:09:31.222> it<00:09:31.367> and<00:09:31.704> looking<00:09:32.089> at<00:09:32.185> it<00:09:32.281> from,<00:09:33.212> you<00:09:33.308> know,<00:09:33.613> even<00:09:33.950> how<00:09:34.110> do<00:09:34.190> we<00:09:34.431> automate<00:09:34.816> our<00:09:34.992> own<00:09:35.458> internal<00:09:35.875> marketing<00:09:36.661> and<00:09:36.757> so<00:09:36.982> forth,<00:09:37.399> or<00:09:37.559> like<00:09:37.784> our<00:09:37.944> copywriting<00:09:38.746> and<00:09:38.843> so<00:09:39.019> forth.

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So<00:09:41.008> yeah,<00:09:42.372> we<00:09:42.629> see<00:09:43.094> it<00:09:43.479> as<00:09:43.575> being<00:09:43.960> critical<00:09:44.377> to<00:09:44.457> our<00:09:44.634> success<00:09:45.484> for<00:09:45.564> sure.

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Can<00:09:46.768> you<00:09:47.345> tell<00:09:47.586> people<00:09:47.810> who<00:09:47.971> may<00:09:48.147> not,<00:09:48.693> and<00:09:49.190> I'm<00:09:49.671> probably<00:09:50.072> included<00:09:50.489> in<00:09:50.618> this<00:09:50.778> list,<00:09:51.179> get<00:09:51.340> a<00:09:51.356> sense<00:09:51.660> for<00:09:51.997> the<00:09:52.222> value<00:09:52.639> of<00:09:52.783> NFTs<00:09:53.361> and<00:09:53.457> in<00:09:53.586> particular,<00:09:53.987> like<00:09:54.179> the<00:09:54.307> whole<00:09:54.548> idea<00:09:54.741> behind<00:09:55.045> smart<00:09:55.446> contracts<00:09:56.152> that<00:09:56.313> kind<00:09:56.489> of<00:09:56.569> backs<00:09:56.890> those<00:09:57.115> up?

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'Cause<00:09:57.924> I<00:09:58.038> think<00:09:58.200> NFTs<00:09:58.574> is<00:09:58.817> another<00:09:59.142> one<00:09:59.256> of<00:09:59.305> the<00:09:59.402> reasons<00:09:59.727> why<00:09:59.889> people<00:10:00.133> got<00:10:00.295> a<00:10:00.360> little<00:10:00.945> worried<00:10:01.270> about<00:10:01.659> Web3<00:10:02.406> or<00:10:02.569> maybe<00:10:02.812> like<00:10:03.202> went<00:10:03.316> away.

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'Cause<00:10:04.047> like<00:10:04.193> these<00:10:04.436> Bored<00:10:04.826> Ape<00:10:05.070> things<00:10:05.556> were<00:10:05.734> like<00:10:06.058> $100,000.

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Like<00:10:07.677> remember<00:10:07.920> that?

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Like<00:10:08.309> that<00:10:08.406> was<00:10:08.633> crazy.

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And<00:10:09.459> maybe<00:10:09.766> they<00:10:09.863> still<00:10:10.123> are<00:10:10.155> $100,000,<00:10:10.803> I<00:10:10.819> don't<00:10:11.159> know.

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But<00:10:12.132> like<00:10:12.616> tell<00:10:12.841> people<00:10:13.018> about<00:10:13.276> the<00:10:13.405> technology<00:10:14.065> behind<00:10:14.549> NFTs<00:10:15.193> and<00:10:15.354> why<00:10:16.143> it's<00:10:16.723> more<00:10:17.352> than<00:10:17.915> the<00:10:18.012> Bored<00:10:18.254> Ape.

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Yeah,<00:10:20.106> so<00:10:21.870> the<00:10:21.967> underlying<00:10:22.438> premise<00:10:22.925> of<00:10:23.834> Web3<00:10:24.711> is<00:10:25.416> to<00:10:25.656> have<00:10:25.912> a<00:10:26.217> decentralized,<00:10:27.499> transparent<00:10:28.300> public<00:10:28.701> ledger.

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So<00:10:29.822> an<00:10:29.918> Excel<00:10:30.239> spreadsheet<00:10:32.322> that<00:10:33.123> everybody<00:10:33.604> can<00:10:33.764> see<00:10:35.350> who—<00:10:35.671> what<00:10:35.911> wallets<00:10:36.392> are<00:10:36.488> holding<00:10:37.594> what<00:10:38.090> tokens<00:10:38.972> and<00:10:39.292> what<00:10:39.436> smart<00:10:39.773> contracts,<00:10:40.654> right,<00:10:40.959> as<00:10:41.119> part<00:10:41.295> of<00:10:41.359> that.

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So<00:10:41.551> you<00:10:41.616> have<00:10:41.712> full<00:10:42.000> transparency.

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You<00:10:43.442> also<00:10:43.683> have<00:10:44.163> what's<00:10:44.724> referred<00:10:45.045> to<00:10:45.141> as<00:10:45.285> a<00:10:45.365> consensus<00:10:46.006> framework<00:10:46.423> that<00:10:46.567> sits<00:10:46.807> on<00:10:46.903> top<00:10:47.080> of<00:10:47.208> that.

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So<00:10:48.089> that<00:10:48.329> is<00:10:48.506> the<00:10:48.602> ability<00:10:49.627> to<00:10:49.932> be<00:10:50.108> able<00:10:50.348> to<00:10:51.069> transfer<00:10:51.774> value<00:10:52.512> from<00:10:52.736> Party<00:10:53.137> A<00:10:53.314> to<00:10:53.394> Party<00:10:53.779> B<00:10:54.502> just<00:10:54.822> using<00:10:55.159> math,<00:10:55.721> right?

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So<00:10:56.138> it<00:10:56.267> used<00:10:56.427> to<00:10:56.524> be,<00:10:56.844> in<00:10:56.989> God<00:10:57.246> we<00:10:57.406> trust,<00:10:58.513> um,<00:10:58.850> and<00:10:59.011> then<00:10:59.171> it<00:10:59.316> was,<00:10:59.974> you<00:11:00.054> know,<00:11:00.295> in<00:11:00.455> gold<00:11:00.776> we<00:11:00.856> trust,<00:11:01.819> and<00:11:01.964> then<00:11:02.124> it<00:11:02.204> was<00:11:03.167> in<00:11:03.264> the<00:11:03.569> US<00:11:03.986> greenback<00:11:04.949> promissory<00:11:05.510> note,<00:11:06.152> the<00:11:06.297> GDP<00:11:07.019> of<00:11:07.276> America<00:11:07.837> I<00:11:07.998> trust,<00:11:08.945> and<00:11:09.025> now<00:11:09.201> it's<00:11:09.843> in<00:11:09.923> math<00:11:10.244> I<00:11:10.325> trust.

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And<00:11:11.031> so<00:11:11.384> hence<00:11:12.154> why<00:11:12.331> you<00:11:12.411> would<00:11:12.571> hold<00:11:12.812> Bitcoin,<00:11:13.839> um,<00:11:14.160> as<00:11:14.401> a<00:11:14.417> store<00:11:14.882> of<00:11:14.978> value<00:11:15.460> that<00:11:15.620> is<00:11:15.765> not<00:11:15.957> dependent<00:11:16.487> on<00:11:16.599> any<00:11:16.824> one<00:11:16.984> country's<00:11:17.386> GDP,<00:11:18.188> right?

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And<00:11:18.653> so<00:11:19.536> Um,<00:11:20.353> so<00:11:20.979> that<00:11:21.235> technology,<00:11:22.662> um,<00:11:23.062> allows<00:11:23.720> you<00:11:23.880> to<00:11:23.960> be<00:11:24.120> able<00:11:24.281> to<00:11:24.441> prove<00:11:24.842> that,<00:11:25.227> you<00:11:25.259> know,<00:11:25.627> ownership<00:11:26.349> and<00:11:26.910> authenticity.

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And<00:11:28.144> so<00:11:28.769> through<00:11:29.010> that,<00:11:29.394> that<00:11:29.475> can<00:11:29.715> create<00:11:29.987> scarcity.

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So<00:11:31.094> the<00:11:31.238> ability<00:11:31.735> to<00:11:31.911> say,<00:11:32.697> you<00:11:32.777> know,<00:11:32.937> hey,<00:11:33.418> you<00:11:33.578> and<00:11:33.723> I<00:11:33.819> could<00:11:33.963> both<00:11:34.123> have<00:11:34.300> a<00:11:34.380> dollar<00:11:35.181> and<00:11:35.326> we<00:11:35.422> can<00:11:35.726> trade<00:11:36.047> those<00:11:36.223> dollars.

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And<00:11:37.089> that<00:11:37.265> is<00:11:37.409> referred<00:11:37.746> to<00:11:37.906> as<00:11:37.987> being<00:11:38.307> fungible.

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So<00:11:39.045> there's<00:11:39.349> fungible<00:11:39.830> tokens<00:11:40.311> or<00:11:40.471> fungible<00:11:40.872> dollars.

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But<00:11:42.379> if<00:11:42.539> my<00:11:42.715> dollar<00:11:43.116> is,<00:11:43.902> you<00:11:43.934> know,<00:11:44.334> signed<00:11:44.879> by<00:11:45.184> Tom<00:11:45.505> Brady,<00:11:46.386> um,<00:11:47.044> my<00:11:47.204> dollar<00:11:47.508> is<00:11:47.605> now<00:11:47.829> a<00:11:47.861> non-fungible<00:11:48.711> dollar.

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I<00:11:49.288> wouldn't<00:11:49.528> just<00:11:49.753> trade<00:11:50.009> that<00:11:50.169> dollar<00:11:50.490> with<00:11:50.714> you,<00:11:50.971> right?

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So<00:11:51.757> that's<00:11:52.174> what<00:11:52.270> a<00:11:52.334> smart<00:11:52.655> contract<00:11:53.137> does,<00:11:53.602> is<00:11:54.821> brings<00:11:55.303> that<00:11:55.479> scarcity<00:11:56.105> and<00:11:56.185> that<00:11:56.426> one-of-a-kind<00:11:57.452> element<00:11:57.789> to<00:11:57.950> it.

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As<00:11:59.217> a<00:11:59.233> result<00:11:59.570> of<00:11:59.634> that,<00:12:00.180> you<00:12:00.260> have,<00:12:00.581> you<00:12:00.613> know,<00:12:00.838> people<00:12:01.110> making<00:12:01.479> Bored<00:12:01.720> Apes<00:12:02.266> and<00:12:02.378> saying—<00:12:02.907> and<00:12:03.308> trading<00:12:03.726> those.

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But<00:12:04.672> again,<00:12:05.009> that<00:12:05.170> was<00:12:05.330> all<00:12:05.555> really<00:12:05.811> just,<00:12:06.116> you<00:12:06.212> know,<00:12:06.437> fueling<00:12:07.175> based<00:12:07.480> on<00:12:07.592> speculation<00:12:08.378> that<00:12:08.475> if<00:12:08.603> I<00:12:08.699> buy<00:12:08.940> this<00:12:09.100> ape<00:12:09.277> today,<00:12:09.646> I<00:12:09.806> can<00:12:09.919> sell<00:12:10.143> it<00:12:10.223> for<00:12:10.448> 3<00:12:10.624> times<00:12:11.026> more<00:12:11.138> than<00:12:11.346> I<00:12:11.571> bought<00:12:11.683> it<00:12:11.812> yesterday.

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But<00:12:13.111> we've<00:12:13.336> seen<00:12:13.512> that<00:12:13.753> in<00:12:14.170> stocks<00:12:14.892> and<00:12:15.582> land<00:12:15.839> in<00:12:15.999> Florida<00:12:16.304> and<00:12:16.882> And<00:12:16.978> so,<00:12:17.365> yeah,<00:12:17.607> sports<00:12:18.010> cards,<00:12:19.041> like<00:12:19.234> it's,<00:12:19.541> it's,<00:12:19.718> yeah,<00:12:19.847> it's<00:12:20.121> not<00:12:20.266> like<00:12:20.427> a<00:12:20.443> new<00:12:21.007> phenomenon.

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That's<00:12:21.877> for<00:12:22.022> sure.

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I<00:12:23.247> think<00:12:23.489> people<00:12:23.730> are,<00:12:24.051> yeah,<00:12:24.855> it<00:12:24.887> was<00:12:25.032> an<00:12:25.176> interesting<00:12:25.594> time<00:12:26.157> when<00:12:26.318> that<00:12:26.462> was<00:12:26.639> going<00:12:26.864> on.

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I<00:12:28.070> wonder<00:12:28.391> as<00:12:28.488> CEO,<00:12:29.195> what<00:12:29.613> does<00:12:29.790> a<00:12:29.854> typical<00:12:30.256> day<00:12:30.481> look<00:12:30.658> like<00:12:30.883> for<00:12:30.979> you?

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Well,<00:12:34.312> I'm<00:12:34.620> an<00:12:34.798> early<00:12:35.203> riser,<00:12:35.867> so<00:12:37.389> 4:45,<00:12:38.263> 5:00<00:12:39.883> AM,<00:12:40.951> a<00:12:41.016> huge<00:12:41.356> fan<00:12:42.638> of<00:12:42.880> Sam<00:12:43.283> Harris<00:12:43.702> and<00:12:43.847> the<00:12:43.928> Waking<00:12:44.250> Up<00:12:44.492> app.

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So,<00:12:45.073> I<00:12:45.234> do<00:12:45.396> my<00:12:45.557> morning<00:12:45.944> meditation<00:12:46.847> with<00:12:46.944> Sam.

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That's<00:12:48.960> a<00:12:49.025> great<00:12:49.331> app.

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Yes,<00:12:50.702> a<00:12:50.960> huge<00:12:51.299> fan.

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He<00:12:54.013> came<00:12:54.207> at<00:12:54.288> a<00:12:54.353> pivotal<00:12:54.902> point<00:12:55.242> in<00:12:55.323> my<00:12:55.549> life<00:12:55.824> in<00:12:55.954> terms<00:12:56.358> of<00:12:57.733> just<00:12:58.315> the<00:13:00.094> waking<00:13:00.482> up<00:13:00.967> and<00:13:01.307> the<00:13:01.452> conscious<00:13:01.808> movement<00:13:03.497> and<00:13:03.643> mindfulness.

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So,<00:13:04.650> just<00:13:04.877> being<00:13:05.040> able<00:13:05.202> to<00:13:06.257> take<00:13:06.988> those<00:13:07.378> 2<00:13:07.557> seconds<00:13:08.271> before<00:13:09.134> the<00:13:09.280> thought<00:13:09.769> comes<00:13:10.014> out<00:13:10.177> your<00:13:10.226> mouth<00:13:10.470> can<00:13:11.155> change<00:13:11.416> the<00:13:11.497> world.

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So,<00:13:13.836> but<00:13:13.949> it<00:13:14.077> takes<00:13:14.318> practice<00:13:14.672> every<00:13:14.962> morning,<00:13:15.444> you<00:13:15.476> know,<00:13:15.685> for<00:13:15.766> me<00:13:16.490> at<00:13:16.570> least.

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And<00:13:18.677> yeah,<00:13:19.095> so,<00:13:20.591> and<00:13:20.687> then<00:13:21.540> usually<00:13:22.362> either<00:13:24.942> taking<00:13:25.136> the<00:13:25.217> dog<00:13:25.442> for<00:13:25.588> a<00:13:25.668> walk<00:13:26.394> or<00:13:28.813> make,<00:13:29.055> I<00:13:29.120> have<00:13:29.249> an<00:13:29.395> espresso,<00:13:30.595> I<00:13:30.919> make<00:13:31.162> my<00:13:31.276> morning<00:13:31.681> espresso<00:13:33.107> and<00:13:33.205> then<00:13:33.513> get<00:13:33.626> some<00:13:33.837> time<00:13:34.566> and<00:13:34.728> then<00:13:34.972> I<00:13:35.069> have<00:13:35.632> 4<00:13:35.776> children.

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So<00:13:36.998> then<00:13:37.383> about<00:13:38.219> 7:00<00:13:38.830> AM,<00:13:39.167> the<00:13:39.248> circus<00:13:39.810> wakes<00:13:40.116> up.

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And<00:13:42.157> so<00:13:42.382> getting<00:13:42.623> them<00:13:42.848> off<00:13:43.105> to<00:13:43.234> school<00:13:43.748> and<00:13:43.893> out<00:13:44.788> and<00:13:44.973> then<00:13:45.879> to<00:13:45.963> the<00:13:46.131> office.

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And<00:13:47.977> then<00:13:48.236> kind<00:13:48.415> of<00:13:48.464> depending<00:13:48.788> on<00:13:48.885> the<00:13:48.967> day,<00:13:49.875> it's<00:13:50.086> either<00:13:50.248> set<00:13:50.492> up<00:13:50.670> as<00:13:50.978> internal<00:13:51.335> meetings.

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And<00:13:53.899> I<00:13:53.931> spend<00:13:54.661> a<00:13:54.710> lot<00:13:54.872> of<00:13:54.905> my<00:13:55.100> time—<00:13:56.825> well,<00:13:57.374> particularly<00:13:57.954> these<00:13:58.115> last<00:13:58.422> couple<00:13:58.744> of<00:13:58.906> years,<00:13:59.228> I<00:13:59.244> would<00:13:59.389> say<00:13:59.470> I<00:13:59.567> spend<00:13:59.809> the<00:13:59.873> majority<00:14:00.212> of<00:14:00.244> my<00:14:00.454> time<00:14:00.776> on<00:14:01.099> the<00:14:01.422> product<00:14:02.002> market<00:14:02.389> fit.

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You<00:14:04.671> know,<00:14:05.072> into<00:14:05.553> the<00:14:05.666> now<00:14:06.051> scale-up<00:14:06.773> kind<00:14:06.997> of<00:14:07.030> phase<00:14:07.399> of<00:14:07.479> the<00:14:07.559> company<00:14:08.056> and<00:14:08.281> kind<00:14:08.393> of<00:14:08.538> everything<00:14:08.923> related<00:14:09.276> to<00:14:09.420> that,<00:14:09.725> from<00:14:10.624> go-to-market<00:14:11.346> motions<00:14:11.988> to<00:14:13.175> product<00:14:13.448> roadmap<00:14:14.074> prioritization<00:14:15.437> of<00:14:15.582> features<00:14:15.999> and<00:14:16.240> product<00:14:16.496> roadmap.

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So<00:14:19.674> give<00:14:19.770> me<00:14:19.946> a<00:14:20.011> sense<00:14:20.492> for<00:14:21.615> how<00:14:22.016> you've<00:14:22.963> defined<00:14:23.364> culture<00:14:23.781> within<00:14:24.086> your<00:14:24.182> company,<00:14:25.370> where<00:14:25.610> you've<00:14:25.787> landed<00:14:26.092> on<00:14:26.188> this<00:14:26.333> whole<00:14:26.573> work-from-home<00:14:27.231> hybrid,<00:14:28.178> everybody-in-person<00:14:29.237> debate<00:14:29.702> that's<00:14:29.879> been<00:14:30.023> going<00:14:30.280> on.

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Like,<00:14:31.361> how<00:14:31.597> is<00:14:31.849> that?

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What's<00:14:34.451> it<00:14:34.661> been<00:14:34.823> like<00:14:34.985> being<00:14:35.163> a<00:14:35.244> leader<00:14:35.487> of<00:14:35.568> a<00:14:35.649> company<00:14:36.280> in<00:14:37.171> that<00:14:37.899> kind<00:14:38.142> of<00:14:38.725> where<00:14:38.968> everybody<00:14:39.292> doesn't<00:14:39.599> actually<00:14:39.923> want<00:14:40.020> to<00:14:40.101> go<00:14:40.182> to<00:14:40.263> the<00:14:40.409> office?

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Yeah,<00:14:42.352> tough.

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Yeah,<00:14:45.742> I'm<00:14:45.920> back<00:14:46.178> in<00:14:46.308> the<00:14:46.388> office.

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I<00:14:46.969> had<00:14:47.131> to<00:14:47.195> force<00:14:47.518> myself<00:14:48.100> to<00:14:48.180> come<00:14:48.342> back<00:14:48.600> into<00:14:48.907> the<00:14:49.052> office.

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I—<00:14:50.944> my<00:14:51.896> house<00:14:52.219> became<00:14:52.477> very<00:14:52.719> comfortable.

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And<00:14:56.285> so,<00:14:56.978> you<00:14:57.075> know,<00:14:57.382> I'm<00:14:58.204> really<00:14:58.527> seeing<00:15:00.947> within<00:15:01.413> our<00:15:01.589> company,<00:15:02.698> we're<00:15:03.420> really<00:15:03.694> starting<00:15:04.224> to<00:15:04.320> lean<00:15:04.963> more<00:15:05.284> and<00:15:05.428> more<00:15:05.926> into<00:15:06.553> increasing<00:15:07.211> communication<00:15:08.015> and<00:15:08.159> collaboration.

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And<00:15:10.826> I<00:15:10.906> think<00:15:11.083> the<00:15:11.211> jury<00:15:11.468> is<00:15:11.500> still<00:15:11.854> out<00:15:12.030> for<00:15:12.159> me<00:15:12.352> personally<00:15:13.139> on<00:15:13.235> remote<00:15:13.556> working<00:15:15.805> versus<00:15:16.352> in-office.

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We<00:15:17.894> had<00:15:18.038> a<00:15:18.151> super<00:15:18.633> strong<00:15:19.259> in-office<00:15:19.805> culture<00:15:20.207> before<00:15:20.544> COVID<00:15:21.813> And<00:15:23.178> yeah,<00:15:23.660> and<00:15:23.741> I've<00:15:23.901> seen<00:15:24.721> the<00:15:24.865> negative<00:15:25.218> effects<00:15:25.604> of<00:15:25.684> that.

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And<00:15:26.070> I<00:15:26.166> would<00:15:26.263> say<00:15:26.488> that<00:15:26.632> that<00:15:26.728> was<00:15:26.953> probably<00:15:27.692> a<00:15:28.976> mistake<00:15:29.538> that<00:15:29.843> I've<00:15:30.566> made<00:15:31.047> was<00:15:32.588> not—<00:15:33.391> it<00:15:33.552> was<00:15:33.712> not<00:15:33.969> maybe,<00:15:35.077> you<00:15:35.173> know,<00:15:35.879> taking<00:15:36.184> a<00:15:36.265> harder<00:15:36.586> look<00:15:36.746> at<00:15:36.843> that<00:15:37.003> sooner<00:15:37.629> and<00:15:37.726> kind<00:15:37.886> of<00:15:37.966> the<00:15:38.127> impact<00:15:38.528> of<00:15:38.673> that.

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And<00:15:39.187> so,<00:15:40.439> um,<00:15:40.936> and<00:15:41.017> I<00:15:41.097> don't<00:15:41.241> know<00:15:41.322> what<00:15:41.418> the<00:15:41.482> solution<00:15:41.835> is<00:15:41.980> because<00:15:42.365> obviously<00:15:43.184> as<00:15:43.264> you<00:15:43.409> grow<00:15:43.585> a<00:15:43.649> company<00:15:44.051> and<00:15:44.131> so<00:15:44.308> forth<00:15:44.693> and<00:15:45.431> team<00:15:45.672> members<00:15:45.993> join<00:15:46.298> the<00:15:46.395> team,<00:15:47.037> you<00:15:47.133> know,<00:15:47.518> we<00:15:47.663> now—<00:15:48.241> we<00:15:48.385> are<00:15:48.803> remote<00:15:49.429> and,<00:15:50.552> um,<00:15:50.986> it's<00:15:51.130> kind<00:15:51.339> of<00:15:51.435> hard<00:15:52.013> to<00:15:52.399> move<00:15:52.639> that<00:15:52.816> back<00:15:53.137> unless<00:15:53.442> you<00:15:53.538> kind<00:15:53.667> of<00:15:53.795> make<00:15:54.020> some<00:15:55.019> pretty<00:15:55.261> big<00:15:55.438> sweeping<00:15:56.551> decisions<00:15:57.115> like<00:15:57.292> we're<00:15:57.776> seeing<00:15:58.179> with<00:15:58.340> a<00:15:58.356> lot<00:15:58.517> of<00:15:58.582> companies,<00:15:59.130> right?

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To<00:15:59.613> kind<00:16:00.613> of<00:16:00.677> force<00:16:01.386> that<00:16:01.967> in-office<00:16:02.676> culture<00:16:02.934> back.

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So<00:16:04.422> what<00:16:04.520> do<00:16:04.603> you<00:16:04.832> read?

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What<00:16:05.817> reading<00:16:06.079> recommendations<00:16:06.736> would<00:16:06.883> you<00:16:06.965> have<00:16:07.080> for<00:16:07.310> us?

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Oh,<00:16:12.115> right<00:16:12.244> now<00:16:12.453> I'm<00:16:12.758> on<00:16:12.935> like<00:16:13.337> a<00:16:13.353> lot<00:16:13.482> of<00:16:13.578> podcasts.

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So,<00:16:17.033> and<00:16:17.178> I<00:16:17.274> kind<00:16:17.435> of<00:16:17.467> split<00:16:17.821> those<00:16:18.158> between<00:16:19.351> Making<00:16:19.611> Sense,<00:16:20.340> like<00:16:20.584> Sam,<00:16:21.232> kind<00:16:21.395> of<00:16:21.541> more<00:16:21.784> of<00:16:21.881> my<00:16:22.222> sort<00:16:22.595> of,<00:16:23.016> you<00:16:23.098> know,<00:16:24.996> kind<00:16:26.024> of<00:16:26.265> sort<00:16:26.538> of<00:16:26.844> philosophical,<00:16:27.872> you<00:16:27.904> know,<00:16:28.531> quest<00:16:28.788> of<00:16:28.916> understanding<00:16:29.414> consciousness<00:16:29.993> side<00:16:30.443> is<00:16:30.603> kind<00:16:30.764> of,<00:16:31.085> you<00:16:31.182> know,<00:16:31.824> I<00:16:32.146> love<00:16:32.371> the<00:16:32.403> neuroscience<00:16:33.254> aspect<00:16:33.656> of<00:16:33.818> it<00:16:33.915> and<00:16:33.995> meditation<00:16:34.722> and<00:16:34.964> so<00:16:35.287> forth.

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And<00:16:36.578> then<00:16:38.580> kind<00:16:38.676> of<00:16:38.757> on<00:16:38.854> a<00:16:38.919> big<00:16:39.096> Saster<00:16:40.613> podcast<00:16:41.340> hit<00:16:41.646> for<00:16:41.759> the<00:16:41.840> last<00:16:42.228> year.

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So<00:16:43.072> Jason's<00:16:43.556> great.

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Jason's<00:16:44.590> amazing.

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Yeah,<00:16:45.317> he's<00:16:45.640> awesome.

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Like,<00:16:46.544> my<00:16:46.706> team<00:16:47.433> gets<00:16:47.659> a<00:16:47.675> lot<00:16:47.917> of,<00:16:48.951> you<00:16:48.983> know,<00:16:49.622> early<00:16:49.942> morning,<00:16:50.503> like,<00:16:51.385> okay,<00:16:51.785> here<00:16:51.929> we<00:16:52.026> go.

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Like,<00:16:52.811> this<00:16:52.987> is<00:16:53.131> affirmation,<00:16:53.788> we're<00:16:53.932> on<00:16:54.029> the<00:16:54.109> right<00:16:54.349> path.

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And<00:16:54.990> so,<00:16:55.855> um,<00:16:56.176> yeah,<00:16:56.352> so<00:16:56.737> a<00:16:56.753> lot<00:16:56.993> of<00:16:57.025> SaaS<00:16:57.410> or<00:16:57.714> like<00:16:57.875> a<00:16:57.939> lot<00:16:58.115> of<00:16:58.179> product,<00:16:58.900> you<00:16:58.932> know,<00:16:59.141> product<00:16:59.557> market<00:16:59.958> fit<00:17:00.743> and,<00:17:02.185> and,<00:17:02.586> and,<00:17:02.842> you<00:17:02.874> know,<00:17:03.243> scale<00:17:03.563> up<00:17:03.644> for<00:17:03.788> sales.

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So<00:17:04.605> I<00:17:04.621> would<00:17:04.749> say<00:17:05.951> recent<00:17:06.288> book<00:17:07.073> I<00:17:07.089> read<00:17:07.313> again<00:17:07.970> was,<00:17:08.275> you<00:17:08.307> know,<00:17:08.531> The<00:17:08.675> Hard<00:17:08.916> Thing<00:17:09.108> About<00:17:09.813> Hard<00:17:10.053> Things.

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And<00:17:10.791> so,<00:17:11.496> um,<00:17:12.393> it<00:17:12.441> was—<00:17:12.842> that's—.

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Yeah,<00:17:14.444> that's<00:17:14.605> a<00:17:14.685> great<00:17:14.925> book.

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Yeah,<00:17:15.794> that's<00:17:16.536> a<00:17:16.600> great<00:17:16.842> book.

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What<00:17:17.890> is<00:17:18.535> leadership<00:17:19.035> to<00:17:19.164> you<00:17:19.584> and<00:17:19.890> what<00:17:20.293> defines<00:17:20.777> a<00:17:20.874> good<00:17:21.100> leader?

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Leadership,<00:17:23.604> what<00:17:23.669> defines<00:17:24.073> a<00:17:24.089> good<00:17:24.251> leader?

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Well,<00:17:26.502> a<00:17:26.518> leader<00:17:26.761> that<00:17:26.907> people<00:17:27.166> want<00:17:27.311> to<00:17:27.344> follow.

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So,<00:17:31.676> and<00:17:32.174> I<00:17:32.254> think<00:17:32.415> kind<00:17:32.576> of<00:17:32.656> the<00:17:32.801> attributes<00:17:33.459> of<00:17:33.620> that,<00:17:34.568> you<00:17:34.648> know,<00:17:34.761> that<00:17:34.986> are<00:17:35.130> kind<00:17:35.307> of—<00:17:35.773> well,<00:17:35.918> at<00:17:35.950> least<00:17:36.175> I<00:17:36.448> speak<00:17:37.219> to<00:17:37.299> mine<00:17:37.958> that<00:17:38.199> are<00:17:38.263> important<00:17:38.585> to<00:17:38.617> me<00:17:38.810> in<00:17:38.843> terms<00:17:39.114> of<00:17:39.199> the<00:17:39.267> value<00:17:39.606> of<00:17:39.707> a<00:17:39.758> leader<00:17:40.114> is<00:17:41.097> is<00:17:41.338> passion.

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So<00:17:42.141> being<00:17:42.719> passionate<00:17:43.217> about<00:17:43.522> the<00:17:43.603> project,<00:17:44.165> right?

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Like,<00:17:44.791> when<00:17:44.952> times<00:17:45.225> get<00:17:45.450> tough,<00:17:46.558> um,<00:17:46.960> the<00:17:47.056> team<00:17:47.313> is<00:17:47.442> going<00:17:47.522> to<00:17:47.602> look,<00:17:48.084> you<00:17:48.164> know,<00:17:48.421> to,<00:17:48.823> to<00:17:48.984> the<00:17:49.064> leader,<00:17:50.092> and<00:17:50.510> do<00:17:50.606> they<00:17:50.751> still<00:17:50.992> have<00:17:51.152> the<00:17:51.297> fire,<00:17:51.714> and<00:17:51.859> do<00:17:51.955> they<00:17:52.116> still<00:17:52.421> have<00:17:52.598> the<00:17:52.678> passion?

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Um,<00:17:54.284> I<00:17:54.525> think<00:17:54.622> that's<00:17:54.847> first<00:17:55.104> and<00:17:55.232> foremost.

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And,<00:17:56.597> and<00:17:56.758> I<00:17:56.838> think<00:17:57.401> a<00:17:57.722> big<00:17:58.140> piece<00:17:58.380> of<00:17:58.461> that<00:17:58.686> is<00:17:58.846> resilience.

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So,<00:18:01.095> you<00:18:01.175> know,<00:18:02.476> there's<00:18:02.942> a,<00:18:03.103> you<00:18:03.199> know,<00:18:03.360> there's<00:18:03.521> a<00:18:03.585> lot<00:18:03.745> of<00:18:03.826> podcasts<00:18:04.468> around,<00:18:05.127> you<00:18:05.223> know,<00:18:05.512> how<00:18:05.753> hard<00:18:05.994> it<00:18:06.155> is<00:18:06.251> to<00:18:06.396> be<00:18:06.492> an<00:18:06.637> entrepreneur,<00:18:07.617> and<00:18:07.858> I<00:18:07.938> can<00:18:08.098> tell<00:18:08.339> you,<00:18:08.580> I<00:18:09.461> over<00:18:10.224> my<00:18:10.451> career,<00:18:10.938> found<00:18:11.100> myself<00:18:11.586> in<00:18:11.651> the<00:18:11.814> fetal<00:18:12.073> position<00:18:12.495> a<00:18:12.625> lot<00:18:12.803> of<00:18:12.949> times,<00:18:13.371> having<00:18:13.679> to<00:18:13.744> make<00:18:14.101> really,<00:18:14.425> really<00:18:14.750> tough<00:18:14.993> decisions.

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So,<00:18:17.707> and<00:18:17.868> when<00:18:17.948> you<00:18:18.045> have<00:18:18.270> to<00:18:18.350> make<00:18:18.527> those<00:18:18.688> tough<00:18:18.945> decisions,<00:18:20.151> doing<00:18:20.520> it<00:18:21.485> with<00:18:21.646> empathy,<00:18:22.144> but<00:18:22.305> with<00:18:22.482> confidence<00:18:22.964> at<00:18:23.092> the<00:18:23.125> same<00:18:23.430> time,<00:18:23.751> not<00:18:24.491> like<00:18:25.439> that<00:18:25.600> fine<00:18:25.890> line<00:18:26.228> of,<00:18:27.598> that<00:18:28.097> it's,<00:18:30.095> I<00:18:30.434> hate<00:18:30.611> the<00:18:30.692> saying,<00:18:31.642> it's<00:18:31.787> not<00:18:31.965> personal,<00:18:32.367> it's<00:18:32.529> business.

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It's<00:18:32.996> like,<00:18:33.157> yeah,<00:18:33.350> it's<00:18:33.560> absolutely<00:18:33.979> personal.

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Like,<00:18:35.472> it's<00:18:35.785> like,<00:18:35.949> we're<00:18:36.048> all<00:18:36.196> humans,<00:18:36.789> it's<00:18:37.020> personal.

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And<00:18:39.203> so,<00:18:39.926> you<00:18:40.006> know,<00:18:40.086> and<00:18:40.247> then<00:18:40.568> being<00:18:40.809> determined.

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So,<00:18:42.480> and,<00:18:43.380> you<00:18:43.878> know,<00:18:44.183> and<00:18:44.344> being<00:18:44.521> solution-oriented.

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And<00:18:47.236> if<00:18:47.317> the<00:18:47.461> front<00:18:47.638> door<00:18:47.879> is,<00:18:48.281> as<00:18:48.361> my<00:18:48.490> mom<00:18:48.683> always<00:18:48.861> says,<00:18:49.168> if<00:18:49.248> the<00:18:49.394> front<00:18:49.571> door's<00:18:50.120> locked,<00:18:50.443> you<00:18:50.475> know,<00:18:50.782> go<00:18:51.266> find<00:18:51.509> the<00:18:51.654> open<00:18:51.832> window<00:18:53.042> to<00:18:53.188> be<00:18:53.285> able<00:18:53.430> to<00:18:53.511> get<00:18:53.688> there.

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So,<00:18:56.119> yeah,<00:18:56.541> so<00:18:56.671> those<00:18:56.850> are<00:18:56.915> kind<00:18:57.078> of<00:18:57.582> how<00:18:57.647> I<00:18:57.809> would<00:18:57.890> describe<00:18:58.167> leadership.

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How<00:19:00.147> have<00:19:00.309> you<00:19:00.714> dealt<00:19:01.038> with<00:19:01.282> kind<00:19:01.460> of<00:19:01.541> like<00:19:01.703> the<00:19:01.800> mental<00:19:02.254> health<00:19:02.514> crisis<00:19:03.227> that<00:19:03.891> like<00:19:04.135> we<00:19:04.362> really<00:19:04.637> saw<00:19:05.026> like<00:19:05.350> right<00:19:05.512> before<00:19:05.853> our<00:19:06.080> eyes<00:19:07.052> during<00:19:07.377> COVID<00:19:08.273> And<00:19:08.418> I<00:19:08.451> know<00:19:08.676> like<00:19:08.918> in<00:19:08.982> our<00:19:09.224> community,<00:19:09.884> in<00:19:09.965> the<00:19:10.110> tech<00:19:10.287> community<00:19:11.093> in<00:19:11.254> Utah,<00:19:11.656> for<00:19:11.882> example,<00:19:12.381> it's<00:19:12.526> still<00:19:12.720> like<00:19:12.929> a<00:19:13.026> huge<00:19:13.493> thing.

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And<00:19:14.397> I<00:19:14.413> know<00:19:14.638> you've<00:19:15.121> kind<00:19:15.282> of<00:19:15.315> personally<00:19:15.701> gone<00:19:16.088> through<00:19:16.184> like<00:19:16.490> the<00:19:16.587> Waking<00:19:17.054> Up<00:19:17.537> app<00:19:17.972> and<00:19:18.133> Sam<00:19:18.503> Harris<00:19:19.083> and<00:19:19.244> going<00:19:19.550> for<00:19:19.647> a<00:19:19.711> walk<00:19:19.888> with<00:19:19.969> your<00:19:20.114> dog.

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How<00:19:21.112> are<00:19:21.241> you<00:19:21.338> thinking<00:19:21.676> about<00:19:21.885> it<00:19:22.046> as<00:19:22.207> a<00:19:22.384> leader<00:19:23.254> of<00:19:23.593> people<00:19:24.144> who<00:19:24.241> may<00:19:24.484> be<00:19:24.565> going<00:19:24.873> through<00:19:24.970> similar<00:19:25.457> things?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So<00:19:31.761> we<00:19:31.924> actually<00:19:33.383> have<00:19:33.626> had<00:19:33.902> some<00:19:34.794> pretty<00:19:35.036> significant.

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But<00:19:38.088> I<00:19:38.185> personally<00:19:38.976> have<00:19:39.299> had,<00:19:39.703> and<00:19:40.268> within<00:19:40.591> the<00:19:40.688> business<00:19:41.075> context<00:19:41.882> as<00:19:42.044> well,<00:19:42.302> within<00:19:42.609> the<00:19:42.690> company,<00:19:45.292> had<00:19:45.517> it<00:19:46.096> front<00:19:46.321> and<00:19:46.417> center<00:19:47.205> and<00:19:47.365> went<00:19:47.542> through<00:19:47.767> that.

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And<00:19:50.258> I<00:19:50.338> would<00:19:50.434> say<00:19:50.659> that<00:19:51.800> by<00:19:52.218> not<00:19:52.507> making<00:19:52.780> it<00:19:52.845> taboo<00:19:53.873> and<00:19:54.195> just<00:19:54.533> fully<00:19:54.841> embracing<00:19:55.280> it<00:19:55.653> and<00:19:55.750> being<00:19:55.978> like,<00:19:56.221> this<00:19:56.481> is<00:19:56.627> life,<00:19:57.195> this<00:19:57.390> is<00:19:57.536> where<00:19:57.698> we're<00:19:57.844> at<00:19:58.087> now,<00:19:59.710> it<00:19:59.792> is<00:19:59.954> a<00:20:00.035> thing<00:20:00.863> and<00:20:00.944> it<00:20:01.090> is<00:20:01.252> okay.

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And<00:20:02.557> we<00:20:02.654> just<00:20:02.894> need<00:20:03.055> to<00:20:03.135> be<00:20:03.215> able<00:20:03.376> to<00:20:03.456> talk<00:20:03.697> about<00:20:03.841> it.

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And<00:20:04.418> so,<00:20:05.846> and<00:20:06.103> I<00:20:06.247> think<00:20:06.408> that<00:20:06.504> that<00:20:06.745> openness<00:20:07.306> around<00:20:07.691> it<00:20:07.868> and<00:20:08.012> understanding<00:20:09.055> that<00:20:09.777> it<00:20:09.937> happens<00:20:10.755> and<00:20:10.836> it's<00:20:10.996> going<00:20:11.397> to<00:20:11.862> happen<00:20:12.119> to<00:20:12.344> all<00:20:12.456> of<00:20:12.584> us<00:20:12.761> to<00:20:12.905> some<00:20:13.146> degree,<00:20:13.707> we<00:20:13.868> all<00:20:14.044> suffer<00:20:14.686> like,<00:20:15.151> you<00:20:15.183> know,<00:20:15.568> with<00:20:15.889> tough<00:20:16.130> days<00:20:16.611> or<00:20:16.691> what<00:20:16.836> have<00:20:17.076> you.

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And<00:20:18.713> so<00:20:19.643> it's<00:20:19.756> being<00:20:20.125> open<00:20:20.397> around<00:20:20.702> that<00:20:20.959> and<00:20:21.023> making<00:20:21.328> sure<00:20:21.665> that<00:20:22.210> also<00:20:22.563> team<00:20:22.788> members<00:20:23.109> understand<00:20:23.574> that<00:20:23.670> there's<00:20:23.831> resources<00:20:24.777> and<00:20:25.178> who<00:20:25.274> they<00:20:25.419> can<00:20:25.515> talk<00:20:25.836> to<00:20:26.077> and<00:20:26.301> providing<00:20:26.718> those<00:20:26.959> tools.

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Um,<00:20:29.123> but<00:20:29.668> you<00:20:29.748> know,<00:20:30.325> my<00:20:30.566> personal<00:20:30.982> experience<00:20:31.591> through<00:20:31.751> it,<00:20:32.088> which<00:20:32.312> was<00:20:32.793> pretty<00:20:32.985> intense,<00:20:34.331> was<00:20:34.572> ultimately<00:20:35.517> you<00:20:35.597> just<00:20:35.918> had<00:20:36.174> to,<00:20:36.559> you<00:20:36.655> just,<00:20:36.975> you<00:20:37.119> just<00:20:37.841> had<00:20:38.017> to<00:20:38.097> understand<00:20:38.578> that<00:20:38.738> it<00:20:38.818> is<00:20:39.058> life<00:20:39.683> and<00:20:39.860> we<00:20:40.004> are<00:20:40.260> here<00:20:40.501> now<00:20:40.821> and<00:20:41.141> we<00:20:41.286> have<00:20:41.446> to<00:20:41.542> embrace<00:20:42.007> it.

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Um,<00:20:43.769> and<00:20:43.946> be,<00:20:44.346> and<00:20:45.308> I<00:20:45.388> could<00:20:45.532> tell<00:20:45.772> you<00:20:47.054> as<00:20:47.151> a<00:20:47.295> country,<00:20:48.657> we<00:20:48.833> are<00:20:49.314> like<00:20:49.698> not<00:20:50.259> prepared<00:20:50.532> to<00:20:50.676> deal<00:20:50.836> with<00:20:51.060> it.

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Um,<00:20:52.743> like<00:20:53.304> there<00:20:53.480> is,<00:20:53.945> it's<00:20:55.308> we<00:20:55.725> do<00:20:55.886> not<00:20:56.207> have<00:20:56.592> the<00:20:56.624> means.

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I<00:20:57.105> mean,<00:20:57.972> go<00:20:58.036> to<00:20:58.116> San<00:20:58.293> Francisco.

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It's<00:20:59.689> like<00:20:59.978> we—<00:21:00.283> it's<00:21:01.101> right.

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And<00:21:01.518> so<00:21:02.786> we<00:21:02.882> need<00:21:03.091> our<00:21:03.251> leaders<00:21:03.668> and<00:21:03.829> we,<00:21:04.053> and<00:21:04.150> we<00:21:04.230> definitely<00:21:05.193> need<00:21:05.498> to<00:21:05.658> lean<00:21:05.899> in<00:21:06.140> more<00:21:06.476> on<00:21:06.781> trying<00:21:07.118> to<00:21:07.183> find<00:21:07.503> the<00:21:07.536> solutions<00:21:09.044> to<00:21:09.188> be<00:21:09.301> able<00:21:09.525> to,<00:21:10.007> to<00:21:10.151> help<00:21:10.424> everyone<00:21:11.130> for<00:21:11.194> sure.

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So<00:21:12.574> something<00:21:12.895> I've<00:21:12.975> been<00:21:13.120> thinking<00:21:13.360> a<00:21:13.376> lot<00:21:13.537> about<00:21:13.842> in<00:21:13.938> this<00:21:14.564> realm<00:21:14.821> in<00:21:14.901> particular<00:21:15.848> is<00:21:16.265> how<00:21:16.730> often<00:21:17.131> we<00:21:17.292> define<00:21:17.805> ourselves<00:21:19.250> or<00:21:19.378> attach<00:21:19.891> our<00:21:20.036> entire<00:21:20.501> identity<00:21:21.303> to<00:21:22.586> what<00:21:22.747> we're<00:21:22.987> doing,<00:21:23.628> like<00:21:23.788> our<00:21:24.029> company<00:21:24.686> or<00:21:24.830> like<00:21:25.022> our<00:21:25.230> careers<00:21:25.903> or<00:21:26.032> things<00:21:26.272> like<00:21:26.432> that.

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And<00:21:27.233> if<00:21:27.329> you<00:21:27.474> can<00:21:27.570> just<00:21:27.874> decouple<00:21:28.515> those<00:21:28.836> two<00:21:29.012> things,<00:21:29.797> like,<00:21:29.973> hey,<00:21:30.198> you<00:21:30.374> are<00:21:30.518> not<00:21:31.880> like<00:21:32.938> business<00:21:33.338> success<00:21:34.444> or<00:21:34.684> business<00:21:35.261> failure.

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Like,<00:21:35.902> that's<00:21:36.127> not<00:21:36.287> who<00:21:36.623> you<00:21:36.928> are<00:21:37.104> as<00:21:37.264> a<00:21:37.425> person.

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It's<00:21:38.690> like,<00:21:38.851> I<00:21:38.883> don't<00:21:39.187> know<00:21:39.347> how<00:21:39.444> to<00:21:39.572> get<00:21:39.748> that<00:21:39.972> message<00:21:40.373> across<00:21:40.854> exactly.

00:21:41.206 --> 00:21:43.722
I'm<00:21:41.350> not<00:21:41.527> even<00:21:41.735> sure<00:21:41.911> if<00:21:42.071> it's<00:21:43.273> possible.

00:21:44.235 --> 00:21:49.492
But<00:21:44.379> so<00:21:44.699> often<00:21:45.020> we're<00:21:45.100> just<00:21:45.340> like<00:21:45.517> tying<00:21:45.901> ourselves<00:21:46.542> to<00:21:47.119> what<00:21:47.279> we<00:21:47.423> do<00:21:47.584> for<00:21:47.760> a<00:21:47.824> living<00:21:48.161> or<00:21:48.385> the<00:21:48.866> company<00:21:49.187> we're<00:21:49.283> running.

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Yeah.

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And<00:21:52.412> if<00:21:52.557> you<00:21:52.653> were<00:21:52.733> to<00:21:52.974> even<00:21:53.215> take<00:21:53.455> that<00:21:53.616> a<00:21:53.632> step<00:21:54.017> further<00:21:54.498> in<00:21:54.643> terms<00:21:54.964> of<00:21:55.124> like<00:21:55.541> a<00:21:55.558> mindfulness<00:21:56.344> practice,<00:21:57.371> um,<00:21:58.655> you<00:21:58.751> know,<00:21:59.232> you're<00:21:59.393> not<00:21:59.778> even<00:22:00.596> that,<00:22:00.901> that<00:22:01.142> ego.

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The<00:22:02.105> true<00:22:02.522> you<00:22:02.779> is<00:22:03.068> the<00:22:03.148> silent<00:22:03.645> observer<00:22:05.555> of<00:22:05.715> all<00:22:05.812> of<00:22:05.956> those<00:22:06.213> thoughts<00:22:06.534> and<00:22:06.678> all<00:22:06.839> of<00:22:06.935> that<00:22:07.192> ego,<00:22:07.657> right?

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Like,<00:22:08.444> even<00:22:08.684> all<00:22:08.861> of<00:22:09.005> that,<00:22:09.342> even<00:22:09.727> just<00:22:09.968> those<00:22:10.305> thoughts<00:22:10.642> and<00:22:10.786> that<00:22:11.011> identity<00:22:11.830> isn't<00:22:12.134> actually<00:22:12.616> you.

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And<00:22:13.113> so<00:22:13.900> it's<00:22:14.269> like<00:22:14.702> the<00:22:14.798> true<00:22:15.183> you<00:22:15.360> is<00:22:15.504> just<00:22:16.002> the<00:22:16.066> silent<00:22:16.499> observer<00:22:17.044> who's<00:22:17.285> watching<00:22:17.750> all<00:22:17.846> of<00:22:17.926> those,<00:22:18.231> like<00:22:18.648> watching<00:22:19.033> your<00:22:19.209> brain<00:22:19.530> just<00:22:19.771> go.

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That's<00:22:20.653> the<00:22:20.797> true<00:22:21.038> you.

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And<00:22:21.454> if<00:22:21.535> you're<00:22:21.695> able<00:22:21.839> to<00:22:21.936> create<00:22:22.240> that<00:22:22.513> space<00:22:23.860> and<00:22:24.004> actually<00:22:24.261> step<00:22:24.582> back<00:22:24.838> and<00:22:24.903> go,<00:22:25.127> wow,<00:22:25.929> like<00:22:27.068> I<00:22:27.388> need<00:22:27.581> to<00:22:27.629> try<00:22:27.789> to<00:22:27.869> quiet<00:22:28.254> my<00:22:28.415> mind<00:22:28.992> a<00:22:29.056> lot<00:22:29.233> more.

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And<00:22:30.419> I<00:22:31.494> think<00:22:31.718> that's<00:22:31.959> a,<00:22:32.183> that's<00:22:32.424> a<00:22:32.841> huge<00:22:33.466> unlock<00:22:34.284> for<00:22:34.765> and<00:22:34.910> a<00:22:35.006> tool<00:22:35.327> for<00:22:35.503> mental<00:22:36.129> health<00:22:36.690> and<00:22:37.251> awareness<00:22:38.278> is<00:22:39.320> meditation.

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And<00:22:40.202> that's<00:22:40.443> why<00:22:40.683> I'm<00:22:40.860> a,<00:22:41.164> I'm<00:22:41.437> a<00:22:41.726> Huge<00:22:42.047> fan<00:22:42.224> of<00:22:42.320> it.

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Yeah.

00:22:43.911 --> 00:22:47.060
From<00:22:44.087> an<00:22:44.216> economic<00:22:44.794> perspective,<00:22:45.357> 2024<00:22:45.935> was<00:22:46.080> a<00:22:46.160> weird<00:22:46.545> year,<00:22:46.802> right?

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Like<00:22:47.284> there<00:22:47.381> were<00:22:47.461> some<00:22:47.750> sectors<00:22:48.168> that<00:22:48.313> were<00:22:48.409> doing<00:22:48.554> really<00:22:48.795> well,<00:22:49.052> some<00:22:49.614> doing,<00:22:50.176> you<00:22:50.273> know,<00:22:51.140> almost<00:22:51.381> recession-type<00:22:52.586> level<00:22:52.988> things<00:22:53.871> and<00:22:53.951> everything<00:22:54.273> in<00:22:54.353> between.

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And<00:22:54.755> there<00:22:54.851> was<00:22:54.996> uncertainty<00:22:55.558> around<00:22:55.943> election<00:22:56.442> in<00:22:56.506> the<00:22:56.586> United<00:22:56.779> States,<00:22:57.470> elections<00:22:57.871> other—<00:22:58.112> other<00:22:58.932> places<00:22:59.253> around<00:22:59.478> the<00:22:59.574> world.

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We've<00:23:00.136> gotten<00:23:00.458> through<00:23:00.763> all<00:23:00.924> of<00:23:01.020> that<00:23:01.261> now.

00:23:01.823 --> 00:23:05.149
Here<00:23:02.048> we<00:23:02.209> are<00:23:03.590> looking<00:23:04.056> at<00:23:04.394> 2025.

00:23:05.197 --> 00:23:06.402
How<00:23:05.342> are<00:23:05.502> you<00:23:05.599> thinking<00:23:06.016> about<00:23:06.322> it?

00:23:06.482 --> 00:23:08.346
Like,<00:23:06.948> do<00:23:06.980> you<00:23:07.125> think<00:23:07.366> where<00:23:07.446> there's<00:23:07.591> more<00:23:07.767> certainty<00:23:08.249> now?

00:23:09.055 --> 00:23:11.158
What<00:23:09.136> do<00:23:09.184> you<00:23:09.216> think,<00:23:09.459> like,<00:23:09.686> the<00:23:09.767> economic<00:23:10.284> environment's<00:23:10.899> like?

00:23:13.327 --> 00:23:21.797
Yeah,<00:23:14.152> I'm—<00:23:18.410> I,<00:23:19.701> you<00:23:19.797> know,<00:23:20.991> I<00:23:21.314> have<00:23:21.410> no<00:23:21.540> idea.

00:23:22.135 --> 00:23:25.417
So<00:23:22.601> we're—<00:23:23.261> I'm<00:23:23.727> like,<00:23:24.387> that's<00:23:24.789> a<00:23:24.854> great<00:23:25.095> answer.

00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:42.159
Yeah,<00:23:26.141> I,<00:23:26.543> you<00:23:26.639> know,<00:23:27.508> I'm—<00:23:27.830> I'm—<00:23:28.007> we're—<00:23:28.554> I'm<00:23:28.892> kind<00:23:29.069> of<00:23:29.197> just<00:23:29.374> still<00:23:29.793> looking<00:23:31.134> at<00:23:31.446> what<00:23:31.577> do<00:23:31.790> we<00:23:32.020> need<00:23:32.364> to<00:23:32.528> be<00:23:32.692> doing<00:23:33.512> in<00:23:33.594> terms<00:23:33.939> of<00:23:34.452> our<00:23:34.612> company<00:23:35.415> and<00:23:35.576> making—<00:23:36.122> and<00:23:36.363> I<00:23:36.459> would<00:23:36.539> say<00:23:36.764> we're<00:23:37.165> very—<00:23:37.888> we're,<00:23:38.627> we're<00:23:38.739> moving<00:23:39.108> to<00:23:39.253> cautiously<00:23:40.377> optimistic,<00:23:41.597> I<00:23:41.677> would<00:23:41.838> say.

00:23:42.544 --> 00:23:51.440
Um,<00:23:44.648> but,<00:23:45.531> you<00:23:45.627> know,<00:23:46.157> even<00:23:46.414> if<00:23:46.880> the<00:23:46.992> economy<00:23:48.164> does—<00:23:48.807> even<00:23:49.208> if<00:23:49.368> everything<00:23:49.770> is<00:23:49.930> great<00:23:50.107> again,<00:23:50.348> then<00:23:50.492> we're<00:23:50.589> right<00:23:50.733> back<00:23:50.910> into<00:23:51.070> inflation.

00:23:51.697 --> 00:23:53.302
And<00:23:51.777> so<00:23:52.034> we're<00:23:52.114> just<00:23:52.275> going<00:23:52.371> to<00:23:52.516> like<00:23:52.901> repeat<00:23:53.238> it.

00:23:53.415 --> 00:24:09.037
So<00:23:53.800> I,<00:23:53.961> I<00:23:54.041> just—<00:23:54.346> I<00:23:54.362> don't<00:23:54.539> know<00:23:54.747> how<00:23:54.988> we're<00:23:55.165> going<00:23:55.406> to<00:23:55.486> find<00:23:55.807> that<00:23:55.968> right<00:23:56.209> balance<00:23:56.690> just<00:23:56.835> from<00:23:56.947> a<00:23:57.011> macroeconomic<00:23:57.991> standpoint<00:23:58.762> where<00:23:59.902> And<00:24:00.128> when<00:24:00.290> we<00:24:00.452> look<00:24:00.630> at<00:24:00.727> some<00:24:00.970> of<00:24:01.115> the<00:24:01.196> decisions<00:24:01.746> that<00:24:01.860> are<00:24:02.005> being<00:24:02.248> made<00:24:02.491> around<00:24:02.750> tariffs<00:24:03.219> and<00:24:03.300> so<00:24:03.526> forth,<00:24:03.785> and<00:24:03.850> just,<00:24:04.335> I<00:24:04.384> don't<00:24:04.497> think<00:24:04.675> we<00:24:04.756> fully<00:24:05.160> understand<00:24:06.115> the<00:24:06.374> magnitude<00:24:06.940> of<00:24:07.247> the<00:24:08.085> secondary<00:24:08.569> effects.

00:24:09.262 --> 00:24:09.456
Right.

00:24:09.585 --> 00:24:15.067
And<00:24:09.698> so,<00:24:11.133> so<00:24:11.278> I<00:24:11.375> just<00:24:11.520> kind<00:24:11.633> of<00:24:11.762> waiting<00:24:12.019> for<00:24:12.132> those<00:24:12.277> shockwaves<00:24:12.826> to<00:24:12.906> come<00:24:13.148> and<00:24:13.229> when<00:24:13.374> they<00:24:13.535> come,<00:24:13.777> we'll<00:24:13.874> just<00:24:14.035> ride<00:24:14.196> them<00:24:14.422> out<00:24:14.664> like<00:24:14.825> we<00:24:14.890> do.

00:24:15.325 --> 00:24:29.493
And<00:24:15.487> so,<00:24:17.812> you<00:24:17.908> know,<00:24:18.377> being<00:24:18.554> in<00:24:18.700> Web3<00:24:19.668> and<00:24:19.910> kind<00:24:20.411> of<00:24:20.637> crypto<00:24:20.976> environment,<00:24:22.816> I<00:24:22.913> would<00:24:23.091> say<00:24:23.478> that<00:24:24.206> we<00:24:24.352> have<00:24:24.595> shifted<00:24:25.179> from<00:24:25.439> a<00:24:25.731> headwind<00:24:26.395> to<00:24:26.558> a<00:24:26.574> tailwind<00:24:28.017> with<00:24:28.244> the<00:24:28.277> new<00:24:28.439> administration<00:24:28.958> and<00:24:29.039> kind<00:24:29.168> of<00:24:29.217> the<00:24:29.250> view<00:24:29.395> on<00:24:29.444> that.

00:24:29.558 --> 00:24:29.622
Right.

00:24:29.671 --> 00:24:34.553
So,<00:24:29.736> and<00:24:32.130> and<00:24:32.228> now<00:24:32.768> Elon<00:24:33.112> being<00:24:33.604> in<00:24:33.751> charge<00:24:34.029> of<00:24:34.242> Doge.

00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:44.215
So,<00:24:37.790> and<00:24:37.886> so,<00:24:39.400> yeah,<00:24:40.624> so,<00:24:40.946> you<00:24:41.027> know,<00:24:41.172> there's,<00:24:41.429> there's,<00:24:41.768> there's<00:24:41.977> some<00:24:42.074> silver<00:24:42.460> linings,<00:24:42.943> I<00:24:43.040> think,<00:24:43.265> in<00:24:43.362> 2025.

00:24:44.425 --> 00:24:47.919
So,<00:24:45.037> but<00:24:45.536> yeah,<00:24:45.697> the<00:24:45.778> tariff<00:24:46.100> thing<00:24:46.261> is<00:24:46.390> wild<00:24:47.243> that<00:24:47.388> I<00:24:47.468> don't<00:24:47.774> know.

00:24:48.998 --> 00:24:56.039
I<00:24:49.015> mean,<00:24:49.304> it<00:24:49.546> could<00:24:49.723> just<00:24:49.884> be<00:24:49.965> like<00:24:50.190> this<00:24:50.351> negotiating<00:24:51.011> tactic,<00:24:51.478> which<00:24:51.656> is<00:24:51.736> kind<00:24:51.897> of<00:24:51.962> the<00:24:52.042> way<00:24:52.284> he<00:24:52.380> always<00:24:52.686> talked<00:24:52.960> about<00:24:53.266> it<00:24:53.347> anyways,<00:24:54.554> and<00:24:54.651> it<00:24:54.893> never<00:24:55.344> will<00:24:55.521> be<00:24:55.650> implemented.

00:24:56.088 --> 00:25:05.340
But<00:24:56.185> there<00:24:56.331> are<00:24:56.428> some<00:24:56.672> serious<00:24:57.532> side<00:24:57.807> effects<00:24:58.749> if<00:24:58.846> you<00:24:59.008> implement<00:24:59.479> those<00:24:59.657> types<00:24:59.982> of<00:25:00.063> things<00:25:00.371> that<00:25:00.468> I'm<00:25:00.550> not<00:25:00.777> sure<00:25:00.955> that<00:25:01.117> people<00:25:02.247> fully<00:25:02.984> grappled<00:25:03.465> with,<00:25:03.850> or<00:25:04.090> even<00:25:04.266> if<00:25:04.395> we'll<00:25:04.507> need<00:25:04.731> to<00:25:04.812> grapple<00:25:05.132> with<00:25:05.292> them.

00:25:05.389 --> 00:25:05.533
Right.

00:25:05.773 --> 00:25:05.998
Who<00:25:05.853> knows?

00:25:06.751 --> 00:25:08.450
It<00:25:07.296> could<00:25:07.392> just<00:25:07.617> be<00:25:07.649> a<00:25:07.665> negotiating<00:25:08.274> thing.

00:25:08.979 --> 00:25:09.701
Yeah.

00:25:10.518 --> 00:25:26.147
Well,<00:25:10.598> I<00:25:10.678> think<00:25:10.855> if<00:25:10.935> you're<00:25:11.063> a<00:25:11.079> CEO<00:25:11.560> of<00:25:11.784> companies,<00:25:12.346> you're<00:25:12.506> definitely—<00:25:13.708> as<00:25:13.868> entrepreneurs,<00:25:15.872> you'll<00:25:16.113> definitely<00:25:16.545> know<00:25:16.930> if<00:25:17.106> it's<00:25:17.251> going<00:25:17.363> to<00:25:17.491> impact<00:25:17.892> you<00:25:17.972> or<00:25:18.148> not<00:25:18.517> because<00:25:18.774> your<00:25:18.934> cost<00:25:19.270> of<00:25:19.415> goods<00:25:19.815> to<00:25:19.960> assemble<00:25:20.521> your<00:25:20.857> widget<00:25:21.659> just<00:25:22.140> went<00:25:22.284> up<00:25:22.460> by<00:25:22.861> 40%<00:25:23.262> or<00:25:23.727> 60%<00:25:24.127> because<00:25:25.089> your<00:25:25.250> parts<00:25:25.506> come<00:25:25.666> from<00:25:25.827> China.

00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:29.114
And<00:25:27.446> so<00:25:28.857> Yeah.

00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:42.728
So,<00:25:29.900> you<00:25:29.997> know,<00:25:30.157> there's—<00:25:31.827> I<00:25:32.004> think<00:25:32.244> that<00:25:32.806> from<00:25:32.983> a<00:25:33.111> business<00:25:33.481> standpoint,<00:25:34.332> understanding<00:25:34.974> how<00:25:35.134> tariffs<00:25:35.520> are<00:25:35.552> going<00:25:35.648> to<00:25:35.776> impact<00:25:36.162> your<00:25:36.258> business<00:25:36.659> is<00:25:36.756> definitely—<00:25:37.286> is<00:25:37.446> just,<00:25:37.944> you<00:25:38.024> know,<00:25:39.132> is<00:25:39.324> important<00:25:41.058> in<00:25:41.139> terms<00:25:41.460> of<00:25:41.717> everyday<00:25:42.118> consumers.

00:25:43.467 --> 00:25:43.659
Yeah.

00:25:44.125 --> 00:25:47.448
You<00:25:44.221> know,<00:25:44.831> I<00:25:44.992> think<00:25:45.152> they're<00:25:45.249> just<00:25:45.393> going<00:25:45.473> to<00:25:45.570> be<00:25:45.666> like,<00:25:46.035> well,<00:25:46.132> why<00:25:46.276> are<00:25:46.437> things<00:25:46.613> still<00:25:46.854> more<00:25:46.983> expensive?

00:25:47.496 --> 00:25:48.604
Inflation<00:25:47.962> hasn't<00:25:48.283> gone<00:25:48.460> down.

00:25:48.861 --> 00:25:54.544
And<00:25:48.941> it's<00:25:49.086> like,<00:25:49.262> well,<00:25:49.583> because<00:25:50.145> we're<00:25:50.242> now<00:25:50.466> charging<00:25:51.109> more<00:25:51.430> for<00:25:51.590> those<00:25:51.911> products<00:25:52.393> to<00:25:52.473> come<00:25:52.634> into<00:25:52.875> the<00:25:52.955> country<00:25:53.276> that<00:25:53.436> you<00:25:53.581> buy<00:25:53.774> every<00:25:53.982> single<00:25:54.319> day.

00:25:54.930 --> 00:25:57.450
So<00:25:55.347> only<00:25:55.588> buy<00:25:55.829> domestic,<00:25:56.423> and<00:25:56.567> it's<00:25:56.712> like,<00:25:56.904> okay,<00:25:57.129> great.

00:25:57.531 --> 00:26:02.958
But<00:25:57.852> those,<00:25:58.237> even<00:25:58.414> those<00:25:58.735> domestic<00:25:59.281> products<00:25:59.618> that<00:25:59.779> you're<00:25:59.939> buying<00:26:00.421> are<00:26:00.517> still<00:26:00.903> relying<00:26:01.304> on<00:26:01.465> pieces<00:26:01.850> outside<00:26:02.107> of<00:26:02.187> the<00:26:02.332> United<00:26:02.605> States.

00:26:03.295 --> 00:26:06.811
So<00:26:03.327> yeah,<00:26:04.258> that's<00:26:04.756> kind<00:26:04.852> of<00:26:04.933> how<00:26:05.077> I<00:26:05.158> would<00:26:05.302> summarize<00:26:05.720> it<00:26:05.784> from<00:26:05.960> a<00:26:06.201> sort<00:26:06.362> of<00:26:06.442> a<00:26:06.506> high<00:26:06.667> level.

00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:07.502
I<00:26:06.908> think<00:26:07.004> that's<00:26:07.325> right.

00:26:07.711 --> 00:26:08.562
Yeah,<00:26:07.887> I<00:26:07.967> think<00:26:08.128> that's<00:26:08.353> right.

00:26:09.011 --> 00:26:14.406
Finally,<00:26:09.637> uh,<00:26:09.958> at<00:26:10.039> CEO.com,<00:26:10.617> we<00:26:10.777> believe<00:26:11.002> the<00:26:11.099> chances<00:26:11.500> one<00:26:11.805> gives<00:26:12.447> is<00:26:12.544> just<00:26:12.672> as<00:26:12.784> important<00:26:13.186> as<00:26:13.330> the<00:26:13.411> chances<00:26:13.812> one<00:26:13.989> takes.

00:26:15.032 --> 00:26:18.131
When<00:26:15.193> you<00:26:15.434> hear<00:26:15.659> that,<00:26:15.899> who<00:26:16.060> gave<00:26:16.253> you<00:26:16.397> a<00:26:16.461> chance<00:26:16.799> to<00:26:16.895> get<00:26:17.104> you<00:26:17.264> to<00:26:17.345> where<00:26:17.521> you<00:26:17.746> are<00:26:17.778> today?

00:26:19.753 --> 00:26:19.978
Hmm.

00:26:21.232 --> 00:26:22.330
That's<00:26:22.104> great.

00:26:22.508 --> 00:26:22.847
Yeah.

00:26:26.382 --> 00:26:37.005
I<00:26:26.414> would<00:26:26.559> say<00:26:26.882> that<00:26:29.610> it<00:26:29.691> started<00:26:30.046> with<00:26:30.272> my<00:26:30.824> brother-in-law<00:26:31.651> giving<00:26:31.959> me<00:26:32.122> a<00:26:32.203> chance<00:26:32.608> straight<00:26:32.868> out<00:26:33.014> of<00:26:33.111> college<00:26:34.004> to<00:26:34.572> come<00:26:34.815> and<00:26:34.961> work<00:26:35.448> for<00:26:35.934> his<00:26:36.454> startup.

00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:50.274
And<00:26:39.184> so<00:26:39.473> being<00:26:39.714> fresh<00:26:40.020> out,<00:26:40.598> being<00:26:41.016> number<00:26:41.321> 5,<00:26:42.366> to<00:26:42.446> be<00:26:42.591> able<00:26:42.687> to<00:26:42.768> come<00:26:43.009> into<00:26:43.250> a<00:26:43.330> dot-com<00:26:44.761> and,<00:26:46.143> you<00:26:46.384> know,<00:26:46.850> taking<00:26:48.817> that<00:26:49.380> bet<00:26:49.877> and<00:26:50.042> risk<00:26:50.191> on<00:26:50.224> me.

00:26:51.621 --> 00:26:56.198
Which<00:26:51.783> has<00:26:51.944> really<00:26:52.122> just<00:26:52.769> launched<00:26:53.093> my<00:26:53.238> entire<00:26:53.723> career<00:26:53.982> and<00:26:54.144> life<00:26:54.613> as<00:26:54.710> I<00:26:54.791> know<00:26:55.033> it,<00:26:55.260> right,<00:26:55.583> as<00:26:55.761> part<00:26:55.939> of<00:26:56.068> that.

00:26:56.327 --> 00:26:58.996
So,<00:26:56.602> so<00:26:57.201> I'm<00:26:57.686> super<00:26:58.009> thankful<00:26:58.656> for<00:26:58.753> that.

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And,<00:27:00.581> and<00:27:00.678> then<00:27:01.246> my<00:27:01.554> last<00:27:01.878> chairman,<00:27:02.381> I<00:27:02.527> would<00:27:02.624> also<00:27:02.883> say,<00:27:03.840> you<00:27:03.921> know,<00:27:04.391> I<00:27:05.543> started<00:27:05.948> a<00:27:06.013> company,<00:27:06.742> raised<00:27:07.229> $89<00:27:07.634> million<00:27:08.380> in,<00:27:08.931> in<00:27:09.352> venture<00:27:09.738> funding<00:27:11.200> in<00:27:11.281> my<00:27:11.442> 20s.

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And<00:27:14.897> what—<00:27:15.219> in<00:27:15.363> that<00:27:15.476> stewardship<00:27:16.649> and<00:27:17.212> that<00:27:17.389> mentorship,<00:27:20.200> was—<00:27:20.779> I'm<00:27:21.585> forever<00:27:21.923> grateful<00:27:22.309> for<00:27:23.372> being<00:27:23.598> able<00:27:23.759> to<00:27:23.920> have<00:27:24.322> that<00:27:24.419> counsel<00:27:26.577> for<00:27:26.690> that.

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So,<00:27:27.882> and<00:27:27.962> that<00:27:28.107> was<00:27:28.268> really<00:27:28.429> kind<00:27:28.542> of<00:27:29.380> the—<00:27:29.896> that<00:27:30.122> then<00:27:30.299> launched<00:27:30.767> the<00:27:30.864> ability<00:27:31.348> to<00:27:31.493> kind<00:27:31.687> of<00:27:32.461> build<00:27:33.042> bigger<00:27:33.300> sustainable<00:27:33.913> things<00:27:34.252> as<00:27:34.413> a<00:27:34.478> result<00:27:34.833> of<00:27:34.897> that.

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So,<00:27:36.591> Tyler,<00:27:36.994> thank<00:27:37.236> you<00:27:37.301> so<00:27:37.478> much<00:27:37.801> for<00:27:37.882> joining<00:27:38.269> us.

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Congratulations<00:27:39.060> on<00:27:39.253> everything<00:27:39.558> you<00:27:39.655> built.

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Good<00:27:40.218> luck<00:27:40.395> in<00:27:40.476> 2025.

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I'm<00:27:41.490> sure<00:27:41.554> we'll<00:27:41.747> talk<00:27:41.988> to<00:27:42.053> you<00:27:42.149> again.

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Appreciate<00:27:42.954> coming<00:27:43.131> on<00:27:43.260> the<00:27:43.340> show.

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All<00:27:44.000> right.

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Thanks,<00:27:44.724> Clint.

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Really<00:27:45.384> appreciate<00:27:45.593> it.

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Thanks,<00:27:45.802> Tyler.