Ismael Wrixen built a business out of the deals Wall Street ignored

While working in investment banking in the UK, Ismael Wrixen noticed something about companies too small for his desk. They had real revenue and real buyers, and no one qualified was representing them.

"It was attorneys masquerading as M&A advisors or CPAs masquerading as M&A advisors," Wrixen told the CEO.com Podcast. "It's a very, very specific topic and needs a very curated approach on a business-by-business basis."

So he left. Bulge bracket banking, as he described it, meant one or two transactions a year, big ones, depending on the cycle and the sector team. The entrepreneurial route landed him in almost identical work at a different scale. He is now executive chairman of FE International, an advisory firm founded in 2010 that sells SaaS, e-commerce, and digital content businesses. The firm says it has completed more than 1,500 transactions worth a combined $50 billion. Wrixen also manages the LTV SaaS Growth Fund and sits on several software boards. He studied business and managerial economics at the University of Bath.

He spoke with CEO.com on May 17, 2023, when he was the firm's group CEO. By then, FE International had helped more than 1,000 founders exit, valued close to 23,000 companies, and was closing 50 to 60 acquisitions a year with a staff of more than 150.

The clients are not the companies raising a Series D. They are bootstrapped, or took a seed round and stopped, and are now earning $1 million to $20 million in EBIT. "There are more businesses doing one to $20 million EBIT than one to $20 billion EBIT," Wrixen said, "so we can deal with a few more of them."

Most of these founders never wrote a business plan. The typical origin, in Wrixen's telling, is a person who had a problem, wrote software to fix it, "realized a hundred of their peers had the same issue, and then they started monetizing that." Years later, they are running a company worth $20 million and wondering what they are supposed to do with it. "To go from zero to one, one to a hundred, a hundred to a thousand, it takes a different skillset at each level," he said. The founders he works with tend to know when they've hit their own ceiling. Many sell and keep a stake.

Two kinds of buyers show up. Strategic acquirers, who usually want an acqui-hire. And what Wrixen calls strategically focused private equity: firms that already own something adjacent and want the customer base or a missing feature. Private equity is more willing to let a founder take a majority off the table and walk. He likes both in the room because founders value different things.

What changed in the years before the interview was the size of the buyer. "Private equity and strategic firms that, let's say, five years ago wouldn't touch anything below a hundred million, now are buying businesses of 10 million and up." Public assets got expensive, so the big money came down-market. Selling to them means understanding their risk committee. "When people buy businesses, they're not buying businesses based on what you did in the last 12 months. They're buying businesses of where that business is going to go in the next 12 years."

The interview took place as interest rates and a tech downturn were dragging on public software valuations. Wrixen said his market hadn't followed. A venture-backed SaaS company is built to grow, not to earn. The companies he sells are profitable or nearly so. "There was always a little bit of a disconnect between the more VC model versus the more M&A model," he said, and that disconnect held when the public numbers fell. Deal structures had tightened as some funding sources dried up. Multiples had barely moved.

Part of that was supply. Founders were reading the headlines and staying home. "Fewer people are actively bringing their businesses to market," he said, while the private equity capital waiting to be deployed remained vast, smaller than before only because so much of it had gone out the door in 2021 and 2022.

On digital media, he was blunter. Many publishers had gone public through SPACs and "just weren't companies that were in a position or should have been public in the first place." About a month before the interview, BuzzFeed had closed its news division and cut 15 percent of its staff. Wrixen thought the company was on a better path.

The content businesses doing well were the ones teaching something. Courses, e-learning, Salesforce training, Six Sigma. The pandemic had sent people looking to invest in themselves, and large institutions were buying those businesses to reach that kind of customer. Display advertising and affiliate sites had a worse year. One figure Wrixen cited put fourth quarter CPMs down 40 to 50 percent from the year before, though by spring they were coming back.

On e-commerce, Wrixen sees three lanes: Amazon FBA, Shopify, and everything a brand builds for itself once it knows what sells. FBA fees had climbed to the point that drop shipping, a 2012 to 2015 fad, was returning. Shopify kept adding merchants no matter what the economy did, and its app marketplace had gone from around 3,000 apps to more than 8,000. The usual pattern was a brand testing on Shopify, finding a winner, and then building its own funnel and checkout. "Shopify is a fantastic testing bed for exactly this," he said.

Asked how AI disrupts all of it, Wrixen answered with a question. "How long is a piece of string?" The obvious early casualties are services that do low-level work like product descriptions, since anyone can do that themselves now. He expected marketing technology to feel it first, and he expected regulation to decide how far it goes. Plagiarism checkers were already integrating AI detection. "If I were a college graduate writing a thesis, I mean, that's the first thing I would be trying."

Web3 never really reached his clients. "As quickly as it landed on our desks, it disappeared again." Operators under $250 million were busy finding shipping containers.

Wrixen's advice to anyone building toward a sale is not to build toward a sale. "Run it and operate it as if you were going to actually be in charge of this business for the next 10 years." Buyers can tell when a company has been trimmed for an exit. It shows in the team, in how the team is paid, and in how the product was made.

He does think founders should talk to an advisor early, 12 to 18 months before going to market. By FE International's count, companies that go through exit planning first sell for about 14 percent higher multiples.

The firm takes on fewer than 2 percent of the businesses that come to it for a valuation. Of those, about 94 percent sell.

00:00:00 Ismael's Path From Investment Banking to M&A
00:03:33 Knowing When It's Time to Sell
00:05:48 Who's Buying SaaS Companies Today
00:07:29 The Current State of SaaS Valuations
00:10:39 Digital Content and Publishing's Evolution
00:16:06 Shopify and the Future of E-Commerce
00:19:51 How AI Is Disrupting SaaS and Content
00:22:12 Web3's Rise and Quick Fade
00:23:59 Inside the FE International Deal Model
00:26:50 Watching Public Markets as an M&A Advisor
00:29:33 Advice for Founders Planning an Exit

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And<00:03:16.127> that's<00:03:16.432> really<00:03:16.689> kind<00:03:16.849> of<00:03:16.994> the—<00:03:17.395> I<00:03:17.508> say<00:03:17.893> we<00:03:17.989> deal<00:03:18.150> in<00:03:18.214> kind<00:03:18.359> of<00:03:18.455> $1<00:03:18.680> to<00:03:18.776> $20<00:03:19.178> million<00:03:19.643> and<00:03:20.077> slightly<00:03:20.526> above<00:03:20.799> as<00:03:21.008> well,<00:03:21.185> but<00:03:21.426> that's<00:03:21.666> the<00:03:21.827> real<00:03:22.052> range<00:03:22.389> where<00:03:22.935> we<00:03:23.015> can<00:03:23.080> get<00:03:23.272> in<00:03:23.512> and<00:03:23.608> start<00:03:23.929> to<00:03:24.057> help<00:03:24.377> people.

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And<00:03:24.714> it<00:03:24.794> just<00:03:25.018> so<00:03:25.178> happens<00:03:25.515> that<00:03:25.979> there<00:03:26.059> are<00:03:26.155> more<00:03:26.396> businesses<00:03:26.876> doing<00:03:27.261> $1<00:03:27.437> to<00:03:27.581> $20<00:03:27.918> million<00:03:28.238> EBIT<00:03:28.574> than<00:03:28.783> $1<00:03:28.959> to<00:03:29.039> $20<00:03:29.439> billion<00:03:29.840> EBIT.

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So<00:03:31.506> we<00:03:31.602> can<00:03:31.762> deal<00:03:31.923> with<00:03:32.019> a<00:03:32.083> few<00:03:32.323> more<00:03:32.483> of<00:03:32.708> them.

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Yes.

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How<00:03:33.685> does<00:03:33.861> a<00:03:33.989> company<00:03:34.630> or<00:03:34.806> a<00:03:34.886> founder<00:03:35.255> or<00:03:35.527> a<00:03:35.543> CEO<00:03:36.168> know,<00:03:37.209> like,<00:03:37.514> the<00:03:37.674> right<00:03:37.994> move<00:03:38.635> is<00:03:39.052> to<00:03:39.516> get<00:03:39.628> acquired<00:03:40.333> or<00:03:40.413> to<00:03:40.509> sell<00:03:40.798> the<00:03:40.894> business?

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Like,<00:03:42.015> how<00:03:42.176> do<00:03:42.256> you—<00:03:42.496> how<00:03:42.896> do<00:03:42.977> they<00:03:43.073> know<00:03:43.537> that<00:03:43.697> that's<00:03:43.922> the<00:03:44.002> right<00:03:44.178> move<00:03:44.402> rather<00:03:44.723> than<00:03:44.899> continue,<00:03:46.004> uh,<00:03:46.725> pursuing<00:03:47.222> it?

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Well,<00:03:48.279> it's<00:03:48.487> definitely<00:03:48.840> a<00:03:48.904> professional<00:03:49.609> and<00:03:49.721> a<00:03:49.849> personal<00:03:50.266> decision.

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I<00:03:50.746> would<00:03:50.842> say,<00:03:51.371> um,<00:03:51.611> for<00:03:51.691> a<00:03:51.772> lot<00:03:51.884> of<00:03:51.948> people,<00:03:52.733> uh,<00:03:53.069> you<00:03:53.133> know,<00:03:53.710> they<00:03:53.886> may,<00:03:54.415> you<00:03:54.591> know,<00:03:54.896> From<00:03:55.152> a<00:03:55.296> personal<00:03:55.697> perspective,<00:03:56.419> it<00:03:56.515> can<00:03:56.820> just<00:03:57.060> be,<00:03:57.782> you<00:03:57.814> know,<00:03:58.824> their<00:03:59.466> interests<00:04:00.027> move<00:04:00.268> on,<00:04:00.765> they<00:04:00.989> have<00:04:01.310> bandwidth<00:04:01.823> issues,<00:04:02.689> especially<00:04:03.090> for<00:04:03.635> kind<00:04:03.780> of<00:04:03.812> successful,<00:04:04.758> what<00:04:04.854> we<00:04:05.014> call<00:04:05.111> serial<00:04:05.656> entrepreneurs.

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Oftentimes<00:04:07.324> they<00:04:07.500> get<00:04:07.725> into<00:04:07.981> running,<00:04:08.847> you<00:04:08.927> know,<00:04:09.088> let's<00:04:09.665> say<00:04:10.130> a<00:04:10.323> SaaS<00:04:10.788> business<00:04:11.188> valued<00:04:11.509> between<00:04:12.087> $10<00:04:12.471> to<00:04:12.616> $100<00:04:13.273> million.

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The<00:04:14.011> starting<00:04:14.636> point<00:04:14.797> of<00:04:14.941> that<00:04:15.182> journey<00:04:15.502> may<00:04:15.679> have<00:04:15.839> been<00:04:16.320> they<00:04:16.480> had<00:04:16.657> a<00:04:16.721> problem,<00:04:17.427> they<00:04:17.523> fixed<00:04:18.004> it,<00:04:18.164> you<00:04:18.228> know,<00:04:18.469> using<00:04:18.726> a<00:04:19.046> kind<00:04:19.463> of<00:04:19.527> software<00:04:20.008> or<00:04:20.073> SaaS<00:04:20.409> application.

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Realized<00:04:21.836> 100<00:04:22.349> of<00:04:22.494> their<00:04:22.734> peers<00:04:23.055> had<00:04:23.216> the<00:04:23.296> same<00:04:23.601> issue,<00:04:23.841> and<00:04:23.922> then<00:04:24.018> they<00:04:24.098> started<00:04:24.563> monetizing<00:04:25.141> that,<00:04:25.382> and<00:04:25.462> then<00:04:25.622> from<00:04:25.863> there<00:04:26.489> really<00:04:27.002> started<00:04:27.531> running<00:04:27.724> a<00:04:27.788> business.

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So<00:04:28.350> there's<00:04:28.751> not<00:04:28.943> necessarily<00:04:29.473> a<00:04:29.633> business<00:04:30.034> plan<00:04:30.275> that<00:04:30.580> was<00:04:30.676> associated<00:04:31.318> with<00:04:31.462> that.

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There's<00:04:31.799> no<00:04:32.024> MBA,<00:04:32.585> or<00:04:33.067> in<00:04:33.243> a<00:04:33.259> lot<00:04:33.484> of<00:04:33.708> cases<00:04:34.206> they<00:04:34.366> just<00:04:34.543> started<00:04:35.088> doing<00:04:35.810> and<00:04:35.890> then<00:04:36.211> eventually<00:04:36.612> running<00:04:36.869> a<00:04:36.933> business.

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And<00:04:38.217> really<00:04:38.698> with<00:04:38.923> the<00:04:39.019> businesses,<00:04:39.661> to<00:04:39.821> go<00:04:40.046> from<00:04:40.703> 0<00:04:41.329> to<00:04:41.586> 1,<00:04:42.228> 1<00:04:42.468> to<00:04:42.629> 100,<00:04:43.158> 100<00:04:43.511> to<00:04:43.655> 1,000,<00:04:44.313> it<00:04:44.410> takes<00:04:44.714> a<00:04:44.875> different<00:04:45.196> skill<00:04:45.597> set<00:04:46.704> at<00:04:46.800> each<00:04:47.025> level<00:04:47.297> as<00:04:47.442> well.

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So<00:04:47.859> sometimes<00:04:48.244> people<00:04:48.404> just<00:04:48.565> look<00:04:48.741> at<00:04:48.806> it<00:04:48.886> and<00:04:48.966> go,<00:04:49.271> well,<00:04:49.993> I've<00:04:50.089> achieved<00:04:50.652> my<00:04:50.812> business<00:04:51.148> is<00:04:51.212> now<00:04:51.517> worth<00:04:51.773> $10<00:04:52.030> million,<00:04:52.478> $20<00:04:52.815> million,<00:04:53.055> whatever<00:04:53.312> that<00:04:53.520> may<00:04:53.616> be.

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That's<00:04:54.658> a<00:04:54.738> kind<00:04:54.898> of<00:04:54.962> significant<00:04:56.901> milestone<00:04:57.783> to<00:04:57.943> achieve.

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And<00:04:58.969> it<00:04:59.065> may<00:04:59.305> take<00:05:00.267> more<00:05:00.603> infrastructure,<00:05:01.613> more<00:05:02.750> funding<00:05:03.311> to<00:05:03.391> get<00:05:03.552> the<00:05:03.696> business<00:05:04.032> to<00:05:04.113> the<00:05:04.209> next<00:05:04.513> level<00:05:04.754> and<00:05:04.978> really<00:05:05.955> do<00:05:06.516> right<00:05:06.981> and<00:05:07.077> do<00:05:07.238> the<00:05:07.398> best<00:05:07.638> for<00:05:07.782> the<00:05:07.879> customers,<00:05:08.520> clients,<00:05:09.721> the<00:05:09.850> staff<00:05:10.362> within<00:05:10.603> the<00:05:10.763> business<00:05:11.468> as<00:05:11.628> well.

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And<00:05:12.766> you<00:05:12.846> tend<00:05:13.071> to<00:05:13.151> find<00:05:13.407> that<00:05:13.712> a<00:05:13.792> lot<00:05:13.888> of<00:05:13.952> the<00:05:14.032> founders<00:05:14.369> that<00:05:14.465> we<00:05:14.609> work<00:05:14.914> with<00:05:15.154> are<00:05:15.250> kind<00:05:15.875> of<00:05:16.532> very<00:05:16.917> honest<00:05:17.157> with<00:05:17.237> themselves<00:05:17.558> and<00:05:17.638> very<00:05:17.878> humble<00:05:18.199> in<00:05:18.295> that<00:05:18.471> sense,<00:05:18.776> that<00:05:19.417> they,<00:05:19.737> they<00:05:19.961> understand<00:05:20.699> when,<00:05:21.003> you<00:05:21.035> know,<00:05:21.404> the<00:05:21.500> business<00:05:21.900> needs<00:05:22.221> a<00:05:22.317> different<00:05:22.766> potential<00:05:23.118> skill<00:05:23.503> set,<00:05:24.208> uh,<00:05:24.384> you<00:05:24.448> know,<00:05:24.544> to<00:05:24.641> take<00:05:24.865> it<00:05:24.945> to<00:05:25.089> that<00:05:25.346> next<00:05:25.586> level.

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And<00:05:26.291> oftentimes<00:05:26.852> founders<00:05:27.253> will,<00:05:27.429> you<00:05:27.509> know,<00:05:27.990> keep<00:05:28.471> parts<00:05:28.935> of<00:05:29.015> the<00:05:29.112> business,<00:05:29.496> you<00:05:29.528> know,<00:05:29.672> keep<00:05:29.977> an<00:05:30.073> interest,<00:05:30.458> keep<00:05:30.650> a<00:05:30.714> stake,<00:05:31.051> so<00:05:31.195> they<00:05:31.355> can<00:05:31.451> be,<00:05:31.740> you<00:05:31.772> know,<00:05:31.932> involved<00:05:32.477> in<00:05:32.557> a<00:05:32.573> second,<00:05:33.102> you<00:05:33.230> know,<00:05:33.615> a<00:05:33.679> future<00:05:34.159> round<00:05:34.720> or<00:05:34.864> other<00:05:34.977> things<00:05:35.281> over<00:05:35.505> time<00:05:35.842> as<00:05:36.002> well.

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Um,<00:05:37.044> but<00:05:37.188> yeah,<00:05:37.268> I<00:05:37.428> think,<00:05:37.669> you<00:05:37.701> know,<00:05:37.845> it<00:05:38.069> usually<00:05:38.294> just<00:05:38.406> comes<00:05:38.646> down<00:05:38.951> to<00:05:39.928> bandwidth,<00:05:40.714> interest,<00:05:41.355> um,<00:05:41.611> in<00:05:41.675> kind<00:05:42.076> taking<00:05:42.396> it<00:05:42.492> to<00:05:42.589> that<00:05:42.749> next<00:05:42.973> level.

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And<00:05:43.775> also,<00:05:44.641> you<00:05:44.673> know,<00:05:44.769> sometimes<00:05:45.362> the<00:05:45.458> infrastructure<00:05:46.083> required<00:05:46.564> to<00:05:46.885> ultimately<00:05:47.382> do<00:05:47.542> that.

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And<00:05:48.824> who's<00:05:49.129> buying<00:05:49.466> these<00:05:49.690> companies?

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Is<00:05:50.427> it<00:05:50.588> PE<00:05:50.988> firms,<00:05:51.710> bigger<00:05:52.014> companies,<00:05:52.896> uh,<00:05:53.233> everything<00:05:53.617> in<00:05:53.698> between?

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Yeah,<00:05:55.236> I<00:05:55.301> would<00:05:55.461> typically<00:05:55.862> say<00:05:56.118> for<00:05:56.455> SaaS<00:05:56.743> specifically,<00:05:57.625> I<00:05:57.641> would<00:05:57.737> typically<00:05:58.202> say<00:05:58.907> it's<00:05:59.228> either<00:05:59.869> strategic<00:06:00.542> firms,<00:06:00.991> as<00:06:01.152> you<00:06:01.232> would<00:06:01.328> well<00:06:01.488> imagine,<00:06:02.354> and<00:06:02.674> then<00:06:02.835> also<00:06:03.187> strategic—<00:06:04.037> what<00:06:04.454> we<00:06:04.614> call<00:06:04.774> strategically<00:06:05.576> focused<00:06:06.057> private<00:06:06.361> equity<00:06:06.634> firms.

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So<00:06:07.403> private<00:06:07.596> equity<00:06:07.756> firms<00:06:08.045> that<00:06:08.141> have<00:06:08.397> a<00:06:08.461> portfolio,<00:06:09.103> there<00:06:09.215> may<00:06:09.423> be<00:06:09.519> something<00:06:09.968> else<00:06:10.144> in<00:06:10.209> that<00:06:10.305> portfolio<00:06:10.866> that's<00:06:11.347> aligned<00:06:11.828> in<00:06:11.908> some<00:06:12.212> way,<00:06:12.389> and<00:06:12.469> they<00:06:12.549> see<00:06:12.870> this<00:06:13.046> as<00:06:13.591> a<00:06:13.607> nice<00:06:13.880> bolt-on<00:06:14.232> acquisition,<00:06:15.097> um,<00:06:15.273> you<00:06:15.353> know,<00:06:15.738> to<00:06:15.994> that,<00:06:16.619> um,<00:06:16.795> usually<00:06:17.116> targeting,<00:06:17.740> you<00:06:17.772> know,<00:06:18.221> you<00:06:18.878> know,<00:06:19.118> customer<00:06:19.535> sets<00:06:19.903> or<00:06:19.983> large<00:06:20.224> customer<00:06:20.544> sets<00:06:20.800> thereafter,<00:06:21.441> or,<00:06:21.826> uh,<00:06:22.002> you<00:06:22.082> know,<00:06:22.242> particular,<00:06:23.107> um,<00:06:23.267> you<00:06:23.300> know,<00:06:23.828> features<00:06:24.565> or<00:06:24.645> other<00:06:24.805> things<00:06:25.030> that<00:06:25.142> may<00:06:25.366> be<00:06:25.526> lacking<00:06:25.831> from<00:06:25.943> their<00:06:26.167> portfolios.

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And<00:06:26.648> very<00:06:26.824> similar<00:06:27.144> on<00:06:27.289> the<00:06:27.369> strategic<00:06:27.865> side<00:06:28.490> as<00:06:28.730> well.

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And,<00:06:29.596> and,<00:06:29.692> you<00:06:29.772> know,<00:06:29.932> I<00:06:30.076> think<00:06:30.252> that<00:06:30.733> it's<00:06:30.893> good<00:06:31.069> to<00:06:31.150> have<00:06:31.454> both<00:06:31.710> of<00:06:31.838> those<00:06:32.015> types<00:06:32.271> of<00:06:32.415> buyers<00:06:33.120> in<00:06:33.216> the<00:06:33.360> conversation<00:06:33.937> because<00:06:34.129> strategics<00:06:34.898> are<00:06:35.043> usually<00:06:35.379> more<00:06:35.619> akin<00:06:36.020> to,<00:06:36.244> um,<00:06:37.045> you<00:06:37.077> know,<00:06:37.542> acquihire<00:06:38.247> deals,<00:06:38.663> those<00:06:38.903> type<00:06:39.080> of<00:06:39.144> situations.

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Private<00:06:40.570> equity,<00:06:41.050> you<00:06:41.082> know,<00:06:41.371> often<00:06:41.707> go<00:06:41.867> the<00:06:42.011> other<00:06:42.172> route,<00:06:42.348> which<00:06:42.508> is<00:06:42.652> more<00:06:42.764> kind<00:06:42.989> of,<00:06:43.453> um,<00:06:43.549> you<00:06:43.613> know,<00:06:43.726> majority,<00:06:44.575> you<00:06:44.607> know,<00:06:44.671> taken<00:06:45.007> off<00:06:45.200> table,<00:06:45.696> more<00:06:45.953> of<00:06:46.193> a<00:06:46.498> walkaway<00:06:46.931> structure.

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So<00:06:47.732> it's<00:06:48.181> good<00:06:48.341> to<00:06:48.422> have<00:06:48.598> both<00:06:48.838> because<00:06:48.999> different<00:06:49.383> founders<00:06:49.880> often,<00:06:50.201> you<00:06:50.281> know,<00:06:51.067> want<00:06:51.323> and<00:06:51.403> value<00:06:51.788> different<00:06:52.189> things.

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So,<00:06:53.231> you<00:06:53.263> know,<00:06:53.471> it<00:06:53.567> kind<00:06:53.728> of<00:06:53.872> provides<00:06:54.353> some<00:06:54.529> optionality.

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But<00:06:55.154> yeah,<00:06:55.475> I'd<00:06:55.523> say<00:06:55.571> those<00:06:55.811> are<00:06:55.844> the<00:06:55.972> two<00:06:56.196> main<00:06:56.453> buyer<00:06:56.693> types.

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Every<00:06:57.591> now<00:06:57.799> and<00:06:57.879> then<00:06:58.056> you<00:06:58.136> get<00:06:58.296> institutional,<00:06:59.498> you<00:06:59.530> know,<00:06:59.723> interest<00:07:00.140> as<00:07:00.364> well.

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Once<00:07:00.797> you<00:07:00.925> start<00:07:01.182> to<00:07:01.262> kind<00:07:01.406> of<00:07:01.502> get<00:07:01.743> towards<00:07:01.983> the<00:07:02.143> nine-figure<00:07:02.785> and<00:07:02.865> above<00:07:03.249> range,<00:07:03.506> that's<00:07:03.746> when<00:07:03.891> it<00:07:03.971> gets<00:07:04.147> interesting<00:07:04.708> there.

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And<00:07:05.910> then,<00:07:06.151> you<00:07:06.231> know,<00:07:06.616> occasionally<00:07:07.193> you<00:07:07.353> get<00:07:07.513> kind<00:07:07.738> of,<00:07:08.251> you<00:07:08.331> know,<00:07:08.956> operators<00:07:09.742> that<00:07:10.078> can<00:07:10.303> come,<00:07:10.639> you<00:07:10.719> know,<00:07:10.944> with<00:07:11.184> backing<00:07:11.601> themselves<00:07:12.226> that<00:07:12.306> may<00:07:12.483> have<00:07:12.643> come<00:07:12.868> out<00:07:13.028> of<00:07:13.124> a<00:07:13.268> large<00:07:13.589> corporation<00:07:15.112> and,<00:07:15.208> you<00:07:15.288> know,<00:07:15.384> have<00:07:15.673> the<00:07:15.753> skill<00:07:16.090> and<00:07:16.250> know-how<00:07:16.651> and<00:07:16.731> the<00:07:16.875> backing<00:07:17.212> to<00:07:17.356> ultimately<00:07:17.806> take<00:07:18.014> on<00:07:18.159> a,<00:07:18.400> you<00:07:18.432> know,<00:07:18.881> a<00:07:19.042> well-run<00:07:19.539> brand<00:07:20.262> and<00:07:20.406> grow<00:07:20.647> that<00:07:20.759> over<00:07:20.840> time<00:07:21.305> too.

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So<00:07:21.867> there<00:07:21.963> can<00:07:22.188> be<00:07:22.349> a<00:07:22.429> real<00:07:22.670> mix,<00:07:22.910> but<00:07:23.055> I<00:07:23.071> would<00:07:23.151> say<00:07:23.472> volume-wise,<00:07:24.066> just,<00:07:24.339> you<00:07:24.371> know,<00:07:24.596> strategically<00:07:25.238> focused<00:07:25.639> private<00:07:25.960> equity<00:07:26.667> and,<00:07:26.988> and<00:07:27.068> out-and-out<00:07:27.485> strategics<00:07:28.127> too.

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It<00:07:29.315> seems<00:07:29.508> like,<00:07:29.877> uh,<00:07:30.054> we<00:07:30.198> went<00:07:30.375> through<00:07:30.519> like<00:07:30.615> the<00:07:30.776> best<00:07:31.097> period<00:07:31.579> for<00:07:31.739> software<00:07:32.140> as<00:07:32.301> a<00:07:32.365> service<00:07:32.782> businesses<00:07:33.505> over<00:07:33.665> the<00:07:33.746> past<00:07:34.051> 10,<00:07:34.291> 15<00:07:34.693> years.

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It<00:07:35.736> was<00:07:35.832> just<00:07:36.073> incredible,<00:07:37.020> um,<00:07:37.518> the,<00:07:37.759> the,<00:07:38.064> the<00:07:38.224> companies<00:07:38.947> that,<00:07:39.348> uh,<00:07:39.749> were<00:07:39.910> built<00:07:40.391> and<00:07:40.488> went<00:07:40.728> public<00:07:41.290> and<00:07:41.435> all<00:07:41.547> this<00:07:41.691> type<00:07:41.868> of<00:07:41.916> stuff.

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Um,<00:07:43.200> what<00:07:43.297> do<00:07:43.361> you<00:07:43.602> think<00:07:43.762> the<00:07:43.923> current<00:07:44.276> state<00:07:44.966> of<00:07:45.079> software<00:07:45.448> as<00:07:45.561> a<00:07:45.625> service<00:07:46.107> businesses<00:07:46.589> are,<00:07:47.536> is?

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Yeah,<00:07:48.677> so<00:07:48.838> we<00:07:48.998> very<00:07:49.191> much<00:07:49.400> focus<00:07:49.785> on<00:07:49.866> that<00:07:49.962> kind<00:07:50.123> of<00:07:50.669> lower<00:07:50.926> to<00:07:51.071> middle<00:07:51.424> market<00:07:51.874> level,<00:07:52.131> I<00:07:52.211> would<00:07:52.307> say.

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So<00:07:52.838> my<00:07:53.014> answer's<00:07:53.271> always<00:07:53.496> gonna<00:07:53.657> be<00:07:53.801> kind<00:07:53.898> of<00:07:53.978> caveated,<00:07:55.086> okay,<00:07:55.504> focused<00:07:56.050> around<00:07:56.388> that.

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We<00:07:57.898> haven't<00:07:58.315> really<00:07:58.492> seen<00:07:58.990> kind<00:07:59.504> of<00:07:59.681> a<00:07:59.745> shift<00:08:00.243> downwards<00:08:01.448> in<00:08:01.608> the<00:08:01.689> same<00:08:02.155> way<00:08:02.492> that,<00:08:02.717> you<00:08:02.749> know,<00:08:03.054> SaaS<00:08:03.440> companies,<00:08:04.323> you<00:08:04.677> know,<00:08:05.062> at<00:08:05.207> the<00:08:05.287> kind<00:08:05.400> of<00:08:05.528> higher<00:08:05.930> reaches,<00:08:06.267> I<00:08:06.347> would<00:08:06.444> say,<00:08:07.134> you<00:08:07.215> know,<00:08:07.391> have<00:08:07.616> seen<00:08:07.954> in<00:08:08.034> terms<00:08:08.355> of<00:08:08.436> valuation.

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And<00:08:09.239> the<00:08:09.319> reason<00:08:09.656> is<00:08:09.785> the<00:08:09.946> dynamics<00:08:10.444> for<00:08:10.524> a<00:08:10.588> lot<00:08:10.669> of<00:08:10.749> these<00:08:10.926> businesses<00:08:11.327> are<00:08:11.391> just<00:08:11.632> very,<00:08:11.873> very<00:08:12.114> different.

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I<00:08:12.452> mean,<00:08:12.997> a<00:08:13.238> multi-billion-dollar<00:08:14.233> SaaS<00:08:14.618> company<00:08:15.100> that's<00:08:15.565> either<00:08:15.822> publicly<00:08:16.223> traded<00:08:16.640> or<00:08:16.769> gone<00:08:16.945> through,<00:08:17.427> you<00:08:17.507> know,<00:08:17.892> a<00:08:17.924> Series<00:08:18.326> C,<00:08:19.032> D<00:08:19.529> towards<00:08:20.139> an<00:08:20.235> IPO<00:08:20.701> path<00:08:20.893> at<00:08:21.038> some<00:08:21.295> particular<00:08:21.744> point<00:08:22.001> in<00:08:22.065> the<00:08:22.161> future,<00:08:23.028> um,<00:08:23.991> the<00:08:24.167> model<00:08:24.488> to<00:08:24.649> get<00:08:24.874> them<00:08:25.034> to<00:08:25.130> that<00:08:25.355> level<00:08:25.837> is<00:08:26.077> usually,<00:08:26.575> you<00:08:26.799> know,<00:08:26.992> not<00:08:27.217> one<00:08:27.441> that's,<00:08:27.939> I<00:08:28.019> would<00:08:28.099> say,<00:08:28.420> focused<00:08:28.838> around<00:08:29.127> profitability<00:08:30.106> or<00:08:30.411> getting<00:08:30.667> to<00:08:30.812> break<00:08:31.133> even<00:08:31.390> or<00:08:31.454> having<00:08:31.791> some<00:08:32.112> kind<00:08:32.369> of<00:08:32.497> trajectory<00:08:33.139> beyond<00:08:33.556> that.

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So<00:08:34.423> I<00:08:34.455> would<00:08:34.535> say<00:08:34.760> that,<00:08:34.985> yeah,<00:08:35.081> that<00:08:35.257> more<00:08:35.466> kind<00:08:35.626> of<00:08:35.723> VC<00:08:36.284> route<00:08:36.589> is,<00:08:36.766> you<00:08:36.846> know,<00:08:36.942> a<00:08:37.071> little<00:08:37.231> bit<00:08:37.408> different<00:08:37.665> to<00:08:37.729> the<00:08:37.809> type<00:08:38.130> of<00:08:38.275> businesses<00:08:38.580> that<00:08:38.756> we<00:08:38.852> typically<00:08:39.318> deal<00:08:39.559> with,<00:08:40.297> which<00:08:40.458> is<00:08:40.538> more<00:08:40.714> companies<00:08:41.180> that<00:08:41.806> have<00:08:42.063> been<00:08:42.223> profitable<00:08:42.930> or<00:08:43.026> can<00:08:43.427> be<00:08:43.588> profitable<00:08:44.005> depending<00:08:44.406> on<00:08:44.551> what<00:08:44.711> stage<00:08:45.113> they<00:08:45.273> are<00:08:45.370> in<00:08:45.498> terms<00:08:45.771> of<00:08:45.899> their<00:08:46.798> ultimate<00:08:47.200> growth<00:08:47.440> cycle.

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So<00:08:48.147> because<00:08:48.403> of<00:08:48.484> that,<00:08:48.885> the<00:08:48.965> valuations,<00:08:49.912> there<00:08:50.073> was<00:08:50.265> always<00:08:50.490> a<00:08:50.635> little<00:08:50.811> bit<00:08:50.972> of<00:08:51.052> a<00:08:51.132> disconnect<00:08:51.678> between,<00:08:52.272> I<00:08:52.320> would<00:08:52.368> say,<00:08:52.561> the<00:08:52.657> more<00:08:52.834> VC<00:08:53.364> model<00:08:53.620> versus<00:08:54.166> the<00:08:54.343> more<00:08:54.567> M&A<00:08:54.840> model.

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So<00:08:56.333> the<00:08:56.430> adjustments<00:08:57.007> that<00:08:57.216> we've<00:08:57.377> seen<00:08:57.778> have<00:08:58.019> not<00:08:58.195> been<00:08:58.356> significant<00:08:59.078> at<00:08:59.319> all.

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I<00:08:59.704> would<00:08:59.817> say<00:09:00.041> that<00:09:00.202> maybe<00:09:00.523> on<00:09:00.619> the<00:09:00.828> deal<00:09:01.004> structuring,<00:09:01.566> that's<00:09:01.807> changed<00:09:02.128> a<00:09:02.192> little<00:09:03.171> bit.

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Some<00:09:04.632> of<00:09:05.098> the<00:09:05.178> funding<00:09:05.660> sources<00:09:06.125> have<00:09:06.382> have<00:09:06.526> started<00:09:07.024> to,<00:09:07.361> you<00:09:07.425> know,<00:09:07.585> to<00:09:07.746> dry<00:09:08.051> up<00:09:08.147> in<00:09:08.243> certain<00:09:08.869> pockets.

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But,<00:09:09.832> you<00:09:09.912> know,<00:09:10.378> the<00:09:10.474> amount<00:09:11.019> of<00:09:11.677> dry<00:09:12.078> capital<00:09:12.624> that's<00:09:12.881> out<00:09:13.041> there<00:09:13.202> on<00:09:13.282> the<00:09:13.442> PE<00:09:13.779> side,<00:09:14.309> and<00:09:14.405> obviously,<00:09:15.288> you<00:09:15.352> know,<00:09:15.448> the<00:09:15.753> strategic<00:09:16.331> side<00:09:16.572> as<00:09:16.716> well,<00:09:17.117> is,<00:09:17.390> is<00:09:17.679> vast.

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I<00:09:18.080> mean,<00:09:18.241> the<00:09:18.337> only<00:09:18.577> reason<00:09:18.898> that's<00:09:19.123> come<00:09:19.380> down<00:09:19.637> in<00:09:19.701> the<00:09:19.861> past<00:09:20.327> year<00:09:20.503> or<00:09:20.583> so<00:09:21.145> is<00:09:21.225> because<00:09:21.482> of<00:09:21.610> how<00:09:21.931> much<00:09:22.124> capital<00:09:22.589> was<00:09:22.750> deployed<00:09:23.632> in<00:09:23.713> 2021<00:09:24.772> and<00:09:24.836> 2022.

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So<00:09:26.023> it's<00:09:26.457> not<00:09:26.681> a<00:09:26.745> shrinking<00:09:27.339> in<00:09:27.467> terms<00:09:27.804> of,<00:09:28.125> you<00:09:28.190> know,<00:09:29.008> interest<00:09:29.810> or,<00:09:29.971> or<00:09:30.115> kind<00:09:30.276> of<00:09:30.677> LP<00:09:31.174> or<00:09:31.479> other<00:09:31.575> types<00:09:31.832> of<00:09:31.912> money<00:09:32.137> going<00:09:32.378> into<00:09:32.602> these,<00:09:32.859> these,<00:09:33.180> uh,<00:09:33.405> you<00:09:33.437> know,<00:09:33.790> particular,<00:09:34.290> you<00:09:34.390> know,<00:09:34.710> investment<00:09:34.970> vehicles<00:09:35.410> and<00:09:35.650> firms.

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It's<00:09:36.011> just<00:09:36.150> that<00:09:36.270> they've<00:09:36.430> actually<00:09:36.650> done<00:09:36.790> a<00:09:36.910> very<00:09:37.110> good<00:09:37.350> job<00:09:37.550> of<00:09:37.710> deploying<00:09:38.110> that<00:09:38.290> capital<00:09:38.610> over<00:09:38.810> the<00:09:38.930> past<00:09:39.190> couple<00:09:39.410> of<00:09:39.550> years.

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But<00:09:40.110> there<00:09:40.290> are,<00:09:40.910> there<00:09:40.930> is<00:09:41.110> still<00:09:41.270> a<00:09:41.470> significant<00:09:42.070> chunk,<00:09:42.470> you<00:09:42.510> know,<00:09:43.030> a<00:09:43.050> significant<00:09:43.470> volume<00:09:43.890> out<00:09:44.210> there<00:09:45.070> looking<00:09:45.350> to<00:09:45.510> be<00:09:45.650> actively<00:09:45.990> deployed.

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I<00:09:46.791> would<00:09:46.970> say<00:09:47.150> if<00:09:47.250> anything,<00:09:47.710> the<00:09:47.850> one<00:09:48.090> difference<00:09:48.470> that<00:09:48.650> we've<00:09:48.910> seen<00:09:49.230> is<00:09:49.590> that<00:09:50.030> fewer<00:09:50.450> people<00:09:50.810> are<00:09:51.190> actively<00:09:51.610> bringing<00:09:51.990> their<00:09:52.290> businesses<00:09:52.630> to<00:09:52.930> market.

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So<00:09:53.651> I<00:09:53.950> think<00:09:54.190> that<00:09:54.330> that<00:09:54.530> is,<00:09:54.850> um,<00:09:55.190> you<00:09:55.250> know,<00:09:55.570> that's<00:09:55.790> changing<00:09:56.130> the<00:09:56.290> dynamic<00:09:56.710> a<00:09:56.870> little<00:09:57.010> bit.

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A<00:09:57.350> lot<00:09:57.351> of<00:09:57.450> people<00:09:57.630> see<00:09:57.930> the<00:09:58.090> macro,<00:09:58.610> they<00:09:58.930> see<00:09:59.090> what's<00:09:59.290> going<00:09:59.550> on,<00:09:59.910> um,<00:10:00.270> you<00:10:00.290> know,<00:10:00.390> at<00:10:00.570> a<00:10:00.630> very<00:10:00.850> high<00:10:01.170> level.

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They<00:10:01.530> see<00:10:01.690> the<00:10:01.830> interest<00:10:02.150> rates<00:10:02.330> and<00:10:02.450> everything<00:10:02.650> else<00:10:02.770> and<00:10:02.930> assume<00:10:03.510> that<00:10:03.610> the<00:10:03.630> market<00:10:03.650> isn't<00:10:03.670> necessarily<00:10:05.012> there.

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But<00:10:05.669> the<00:10:05.797> research<00:10:06.294> that<00:10:06.518> we<00:10:06.678> have<00:10:06.854> suggests<00:10:07.415> that,<00:10:07.800> uh,<00:10:08.056> you<00:10:08.152> know,<00:10:08.457> it<00:10:08.617> very<00:10:08.906> much<00:10:09.322> is.

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We<00:10:09.819> haven't—<00:10:10.204> we,<00:10:10.604> we're<00:10:10.845> very<00:10:11.325> data-heavy<00:10:11.966> internally,<00:10:12.607> and<00:10:12.703> we<00:10:12.784> track<00:10:13.665> basically<00:10:14.130> every<00:10:14.386> metric<00:10:14.707> under<00:10:14.931> the<00:10:15.011> sun.

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Um,<00:10:16.133> and,<00:10:16.293> you<00:10:16.373> know,<00:10:16.549> in<00:10:16.646> terms<00:10:17.046> of<00:10:17.206> the<00:10:17.511> just<00:10:17.751> general<00:10:18.152> demand<00:10:18.553> and<00:10:18.713> interest<00:10:19.113> that<00:10:19.258> we<00:10:19.354> have,<00:10:19.658> you<00:10:19.690> know,<00:10:19.979> from<00:10:20.379> buyers<00:10:20.716> in<00:10:20.860> the<00:10:20.892> space,<00:10:21.501> um,<00:10:21.677> I<00:10:21.758> would<00:10:21.838> say<00:10:21.934> it's<00:10:22.110> still<00:10:22.318> very,<00:10:22.543> very<00:10:22.719> active.

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And<00:10:23.200> that's—<00:10:23.745> and<00:10:24.065> that<00:10:24.305> combination<00:10:25.283> with<00:10:25.620> fewer<00:10:26.164> businesses,<00:10:26.709> you<00:10:26.741> know,<00:10:26.966> currently<00:10:27.446> coming<00:10:27.687> to<00:10:27.831> market<00:10:28.488> is<00:10:28.648> keeping<00:10:29.129> the<00:10:29.257> multiples,<00:10:30.074> um,<00:10:30.411> you<00:10:30.491> know,<00:10:30.972> reasonably<00:10:31.438> high<00:10:31.759> and<00:10:31.856> very<00:10:32.032> much<00:10:32.321> within<00:10:32.643> reach<00:10:33.141> of<00:10:33.301> where<00:10:33.462> they<00:10:33.703> were,<00:10:34.088> you<00:10:34.120> know,<00:10:34.409> when<00:10:34.586> the<00:10:34.666> market<00:10:35.068> was<00:10:35.212> peaking<00:10:36.032> about<00:10:36.353> a<00:10:36.497> year<00:10:36.594> ago.

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Oh,<00:10:37.702> that's<00:10:37.863> super<00:10:38.200> interesting.

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Yeah,<00:10:38.987> that<00:10:39.035> makes<00:10:39.228> sense.

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How<00:10:40.047> about<00:10:40.368> the<00:10:41.251> digital<00:10:41.573> content<00:10:42.055> businesses?

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I<00:10:42.552> mean,<00:10:42.697> again,<00:10:43.163> like<00:10:43.404> I<00:10:43.420> would<00:10:43.564> say<00:10:43.741> over<00:10:43.902> the<00:10:43.982> past<00:10:44.528> decade<00:10:44.946> that<00:10:45.170> you<00:10:45.267> see,<00:10:45.492> it's<00:10:45.620> not<00:10:45.733> like<00:10:45.990> BuzzFeed<00:10:46.696> and<00:10:46.873> Vice<00:10:47.419> and<00:10:47.997> these<00:10:48.495> companies<00:10:48.945> were<00:10:49.041> going<00:10:49.346> like<00:10:49.523> public<00:10:50.005> and<00:10:50.085> now<00:10:50.326> they're<00:10:50.487> like<00:10:50.808> down<00:10:51.049> 99%<00:10:52.237> or<00:10:52.430> 98%<00:10:53.121> and<00:10:53.281> like,<00:10:54.181> you<00:10:54.277> know,<00:10:54.357> maybe<00:10:54.663> they'll<00:10:54.807> come<00:10:54.968> back<00:10:55.144> up,<00:10:55.289> maybe<00:10:55.482> they<00:10:55.691> won't,<00:10:56.012> who<00:10:56.188> knows.

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But,<00:10:57.136> but<00:10:57.377> it<00:10:57.554> seems<00:10:57.875> like,<00:10:58.116> like<00:10:58.276> this<00:10:58.662> independent<00:10:59.963> publishing<00:11:00.669> within<00:11:01.006> that<00:11:01.631> industry<00:11:02.755> and<00:11:02.931> Substack<00:11:03.653> in<00:11:03.734> particular<00:11:04.616> may<00:11:04.921> have<00:11:05.402> disrupted<00:11:06.060> some<00:11:06.285> of<00:11:06.365> this<00:11:06.478> stuff.

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But<00:11:07.007> what's<00:11:07.184> your<00:11:07.344> take<00:11:07.665> on<00:11:07.745> that?

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Is<00:11:08.130> that<00:11:08.387> entirely<00:11:08.933> true?

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Yeah,<00:11:10.393> I<00:11:10.409> mean,<00:11:10.698> I<00:11:10.714> would<00:11:10.810> say<00:11:11.179> that,<00:11:11.356> so<00:11:11.901> I<00:11:11.933> can't<00:11:12.158> speak<00:11:12.319> to<00:11:12.864> every,<00:11:13.346> uh,<00:11:13.827> you<00:11:13.923> know,<00:11:14.164> company<00:11:14.565> that<00:11:14.710> went<00:11:14.886> public,<00:11:15.287> but<00:11:15.432> a<00:11:15.528> lot<00:11:15.705> of<00:11:15.769> them<00:11:15.929> went<00:11:16.170> public<00:11:16.571> through<00:11:16.748> SPACs<00:11:17.598> and<00:11:17.999> I'm<00:11:18.176> by<00:11:18.336> no<00:11:18.577> means<00:11:18.737> a<00:11:18.753> SPAC<00:11:19.363> expert,<00:11:20.005> but<00:11:20.727> you<00:11:20.759> know,<00:11:21.225> the<00:11:21.305> fun,<00:11:21.786> you<00:11:21.867> know,<00:11:22.589> we<00:11:22.733> have<00:11:22.910> very<00:11:23.295> close,<00:11:23.776> you<00:11:23.808> know,<00:11:24.209> ties<00:11:24.675> to,<00:11:25.301> uh,<00:11:25.477> you<00:11:25.557> know,<00:11:25.718> people<00:11:25.942> who<00:11:26.103> are<00:11:26.279> experts<00:11:26.681> in<00:11:26.825> that<00:11:26.873> space.

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And<00:11:27.322> the<00:11:27.467> general<00:11:27.804> narrative<00:11:28.365> that<00:11:28.510> I<00:11:28.751> hear<00:11:29.152> is<00:11:29.248> that<00:11:29.312> a<00:11:29.473> lot<00:11:29.569> of<00:11:29.649> these<00:11:29.810> companies<00:11:30.532> just<00:11:30.917> weren't<00:11:31.960> in—<00:11:32.297> they<00:11:32.537> weren't<00:11:32.858> companies<00:11:33.404> that<00:11:33.564> were<00:11:33.741> in<00:11:33.837> a<00:11:33.901> position<00:11:34.318> or<00:11:34.382> should<00:11:34.623> have<00:11:34.703> been<00:11:34.864> public<00:11:35.345> in<00:11:35.505> the<00:11:35.569> first<00:11:35.826> place.

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They<00:11:36.147> were<00:11:36.307> better<00:11:36.612> off<00:11:36.709> staying<00:11:37.110> private,<00:11:37.591> and<00:11:37.735> they<00:11:38.136> reversed<00:11:38.634> into<00:11:38.874> these<00:11:39.099> SPACs.

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And<00:11:39.661> ultimately,<00:11:40.463> you<00:11:40.495> know,<00:11:40.944> there<00:11:41.056> are<00:11:41.185> a<00:11:41.281> number<00:11:41.602> of<00:11:41.762> examples<00:11:42.324> of<00:11:42.404> businesses<00:11:42.789> that<00:11:42.869> haven't<00:11:43.206> done<00:11:43.447> well<00:11:43.992> after<00:11:44.249> that<00:11:44.490> because<00:11:44.794> just<00:11:45.131> their<00:11:45.292> cycle<00:11:45.853> in<00:11:45.934> terms<00:11:46.190> of,<00:11:46.575> you<00:11:46.607> know,<00:11:46.816> where<00:11:46.976> that<00:11:47.137> particular<00:11:47.682> business<00:11:48.083> is<00:11:48.180> in<00:11:48.324> its<00:11:48.484> journey<00:11:48.902> was<00:11:49.078> not<00:11:49.383> ready<00:11:49.624> for<00:11:49.704> the<00:11:49.784> public<00:11:50.105> markets<00:11:50.506> at<00:11:50.586> that<00:11:50.682> particular<00:11:51.308> point<00:11:51.549> in<00:11:51.629> time.

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So<00:11:52.110> a<00:11:52.174> lot<00:11:52.351> of<00:11:52.415> them<00:11:52.576> have<00:11:52.816> had,<00:11:53.458> um,<00:11:53.618> you<00:11:53.650> know,<00:11:53.795> significant<00:11:54.517> decreases,<00:11:55.383> uh,<00:11:55.624> you<00:11:55.656> know,<00:11:55.881> in<00:11:55.961> terms<00:11:56.282> of<00:11:56.362> their,<00:11:56.843> their<00:11:56.988> valuation.

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And<00:11:57.565> some<00:11:57.742> of<00:11:57.806> them<00:11:57.902> are<00:11:57.966> starting<00:11:58.303> to<00:11:58.431> come<00:11:58.608> back.

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So<00:11:59.009> some<00:11:59.185> of<00:11:59.266> them,<00:11:59.474> you<00:11:59.554> know,<00:11:59.907> I<00:11:59.940> I'm<00:12:00.100> sure<00:12:00.320> are<00:12:00.560> very<00:12:00.700> receptive<00:12:01.120> to<00:12:01.280> the<00:12:01.460> market<00:12:01.740> feedback<00:12:02.120> and<00:12:02.400> have<00:12:02.440> been<00:12:02.540> changing<00:12:02.920> and<00:12:03.080> pushing.

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And<00:12:03.541> as<00:12:03.640> you<00:12:03.800> mentioned,<00:12:04.560> you<00:12:04.580> know,<00:12:04.840> BuzzFeed,<00:12:05.380> you<00:12:05.381> know,<00:12:05.580> about<00:12:05.680> a<00:12:05.840> month<00:12:06.020> ago<00:12:06.220> or<00:12:06.360> so,<00:12:07.200> you<00:12:07.220> know,<00:12:07.540> obviously,<00:12:08.560> you<00:12:08.600> know,<00:12:08.880> now<00:12:09.220> is,<00:12:09.520> is<00:12:09.780> kind<00:12:09.960> of,<00:12:10.300> I<00:12:10.301> believe,<00:12:10.640> on,<00:12:10.880> on<00:12:11.160> a<00:12:11.200> better<00:12:11.520> path<00:12:11.900> than<00:12:12.160> it<00:12:12.280> was<00:12:12.460> previously.

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And<00:12:13.280> obviously<00:12:13.640> good<00:12:13.980> for<00:12:14.140> them.

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Um,<00:12:15.000> but<00:12:15.060> yeah,<00:12:15.200> I<00:12:15.280> mean,<00:12:15.420> in<00:12:15.560> terms<00:12:15.820> of,<00:12:16.360> you<00:12:16.361> know,<00:12:16.740> generally<00:12:17.560> speaking,<00:12:18.800> um,<00:12:18.801> you<00:12:18.880> know,<00:12:19.060> what<00:12:19.300> we<00:12:19.560> see<00:12:19.680> in<00:12:19.820> the<00:12:19.940> digital,<00:12:20.300> you<00:12:20.600> know,<00:12:21.080> content,<00:12:21.560> digital<00:12:21.920> media<00:12:22.240> space,<00:12:22.720> there<00:12:22.860> is,<00:12:23.200> you<00:12:23.201> know,<00:12:23.260> on<00:12:23.460> the<00:12:23.520> M&A<00:12:23.920> side,<00:12:24.240> there's<00:12:24.420> a<00:12:24.660> huge<00:12:24.820> amount<00:12:25.040> of<00:12:25.160> interest.

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I<00:12:25.960> think<00:12:26.080> the<00:12:26.200> pandemic<00:12:26.560> changed<00:12:26.980> a<00:12:27.220> lot<00:12:27.300> in<00:12:27.520> that<00:12:27.720> particular<00:12:28.080> industry.

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It<00:12:28.481> was<00:12:28.600> definitely<00:12:28.920> a<00:12:29.160> net<00:12:29.320> positive<00:12:29.700> for<00:12:29.880> the<00:12:29.920> industry<00:12:29.940> overall.

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A<00:12:29.980> lot<00:12:30.000> of<00:12:30.020> people,<00:12:32.320> you<00:12:32.321> know,<00:12:32.600> started<00:12:32.720> empowering<00:12:33.280> themselves<00:12:33.720> in<00:12:33.880> terms<00:12:34.100> of<00:12:34.160> their<00:12:34.460> education,<00:12:35.340> in<00:12:35.360> terms<00:12:35.700> of,<00:12:35.780> you<00:12:35.859> know,<00:12:36.540> the,<00:12:36.600> the<00:12:36.740> silent<00:12:37.240> resign—<00:12:37.720> you<00:12:37.721> know,<00:12:37.960> the<00:12:38.120> quiet<00:12:38.340> or<00:12:38.520> silent<00:12:38.800> resignations<00:12:39.460> that<00:12:39.640> happen.

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A<00:12:39.959> lot<00:12:40.040> of<00:12:40.200> people,<00:12:40.500> um,<00:12:41.020> you<00:12:41.021> know,<00:12:41.120> started<00:12:41.380> to<00:12:41.660> take<00:12:41.740> charge<00:12:42.120> of<00:12:42.280> their,<00:12:43.060> you<00:12:43.220> know,<00:12:43.340> kind<00:12:43.520> of<00:12:43.600> start<00:12:43.900> moving<00:12:44.160> things<00:12:44.440> from<00:12:44.580> kind<00:12:44.800> of,<00:12:44.980> let's<00:12:45.300> call<00:12:45.400> them<00:12:45.880> side<00:12:46.240> hustles<00:12:46.600> to<00:12:47.060> full-time<00:12:47.700> hustles.

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And<00:12:48.360> the<00:12:48.460> beneficiary<00:12:48.960> of<00:12:49.100> a<00:12:49.300> lot<00:12:49.320> of<00:12:49.460> those<00:12:49.620> were,<00:12:49.980> were<00:12:50.260> kind<00:12:50.640> of<00:12:50.641> digital<00:12:50.980> media<00:12:51.500> and<00:12:51.660> content<00:12:52.020> businesses,<00:12:52.460> um,<00:12:53.320> you<00:12:53.380> know,<00:12:53.600> selling,<00:12:54.360> I<00:12:54.640> would<00:12:54.760> say,<00:12:55.040> for<00:12:55.080> example,<00:12:55.680> uh,<00:12:56.120> courses,<00:12:56.760> Six<00:12:57.020> Sigma,<00:12:57.680> uh,<00:12:58.020> you<00:12:58.040> know,<00:12:58.680> um,<00:12:59.420> items<00:13:00.100> around,<00:13:00.460> you<00:13:00.500> know,<00:13:00.800> Salesforce,<00:13:01.560> uh,<00:13:01.820> training<00:13:01.840> and,<00:13:01.860> and,<00:13:01.880> and<00:13:03.192> the<00:13:03.272> types<00:13:03.609> of<00:13:03.673> businesses<00:13:04.075> where<00:13:04.219> people<00:13:04.476> could<00:13:04.620> kind<00:13:04.717> of<00:13:04.861> get<00:13:05.102> e-learning<00:13:05.519> businesses,<00:13:05.921> really<00:13:06.162> go<00:13:06.386> in<00:13:06.467> and<00:13:06.563> teach<00:13:06.804> themselves<00:13:07.350> new<00:13:07.382> skills.

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And,<00:13:08.168> and<00:13:08.393> those<00:13:08.730> businesses<00:13:09.372> have<00:13:09.629> done<00:13:09.934> very,<00:13:10.239> very<00:13:10.496> well.

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And<00:13:10.962> we've<00:13:11.090> seen<00:13:11.219> a<00:13:11.299> lot<00:13:11.476> of,<00:13:11.700> a<00:13:11.781> lot<00:13:11.909> of<00:13:11.957> institutional<00:13:12.664> interest<00:13:13.065> in<00:13:13.225> those,<00:13:13.932> um,<00:13:14.028> you<00:13:14.108> know,<00:13:14.413> over<00:13:14.606> time.

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Um,<00:13:15.874> and<00:13:15.939> these<00:13:16.099> will<00:13:16.179> be<00:13:16.260> kind<00:13:16.356> of<00:13:16.516> very<00:13:16.822> large<00:13:17.399> institutions<00:13:18.042> that<00:13:18.186> have<00:13:19.005> middle<00:13:19.390> firms,<00:13:19.888> let's<00:13:20.161> say,<00:13:20.386> that,<00:13:20.530> you<00:13:20.610> know,<00:13:20.771> go<00:13:20.996> out<00:13:21.108> and<00:13:21.172> make<00:13:21.413> acquisitions<00:13:21.911> and<00:13:22.055> operate<00:13:22.376> them<00:13:22.456> under<00:13:22.681> more<00:13:22.842> of<00:13:22.938> a<00:13:23.163> private<00:13:23.484> equity,<00:13:24.206> um,<00:13:24.447> you<00:13:24.479> know,<00:13:24.688> type<00:13:24.929> structure,<00:13:25.426> but<00:13:25.667> with<00:13:25.908> the<00:13:26.069> view<00:13:26.293> that<00:13:26.454> they<00:13:26.695> want<00:13:26.936> access<00:13:27.273> to<00:13:27.433> those<00:13:27.754> end<00:13:28.380> users<00:13:28.718> and<00:13:28.862> end<00:13:28.958> customers<00:13:29.520> because<00:13:29.890> Those<00:13:30.350> type<00:13:30.630> of<00:13:30.770> customers<00:13:31.030> are<00:13:31.290> the<00:13:31.291> ones<00:13:31.490> that<00:13:31.770> are<00:13:31.771> investing<00:13:32.130> in<00:13:32.310> themselves.

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So<00:13:33.050> there's<00:13:33.090> odds<00:13:33.430> are<00:13:33.610> they'll<00:13:33.790> continue<00:13:34.170> to<00:13:34.310> do<00:13:34.490> that<00:13:34.650> over<00:13:35.010> time.

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So<00:13:35.930> it<00:13:36.130> would<00:13:36.131> be<00:13:36.210> a<00:13:36.430> very,<00:13:36.670> very<00:13:36.850> good<00:13:37.130> portfolio<00:13:37.710> strategic<00:13:38.310> play.

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So<00:13:38.911> that<00:13:39.290> side<00:13:39.530> of<00:13:39.770> the<00:13:39.771> digital<00:13:40.290> media<00:13:41.190> spectrum,<00:13:42.790> digital<00:13:42.930> content<00:13:43.370> spectrum<00:13:43.690> is<00:13:44.050> doing<00:13:44.290> very<00:13:44.670> well.

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Other<00:13:45.350> sides,<00:13:46.230> so<00:13:46.410> if<00:13:46.550> we<00:13:46.690> kind<00:13:46.910> of<00:13:46.911> talk<00:13:46.990> more<00:13:47.230> traditional<00:13:47.610> display<00:13:48.090> advertising,<00:13:48.970> affiliate,<00:13:49.690> they<00:13:50.290> go<00:13:50.810> through<00:13:50.990> their<00:13:51.230> own<00:13:51.430> cycle<00:13:51.710> and<00:13:51.790> that's<00:13:51.990> not—<00:13:52.910> that<00:13:52.911> has<00:13:53.410> something<00:13:53.690> to<00:13:53.910> do<00:13:53.970> with<00:13:54.090> the<00:13:54.250> macroeconomic<00:13:54.810> space,<00:13:55.290> but<00:13:55.530> that<00:13:55.790> has<00:13:55.930> more<00:13:56.150> to<00:13:56.290> do<00:13:56.350> with<00:13:56.550> Google<00:13:56.910> and<00:13:57.090> what<00:13:57.270> they're<00:13:57.490> doing<00:13:57.750> at<00:13:58.070> any<00:13:58.270> particular<00:13:58.690> point<00:13:58.990> in<00:13:59.310> time<00:13:59.490> with<00:13:59.870> regards<00:13:59.890> to<00:13:59.910> algorithm<00:13:59.930> changes.

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Other<00:14:01.982> pieces<00:14:02.383> over<00:14:02.543> time.

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Obviously<00:14:03.442> CPMs,<00:14:04.372> um,<00:14:04.693> you<00:14:04.725> know,<00:14:05.174> on<00:14:05.254> the<00:14:05.334> advertising,<00:14:06.136> uh,<00:14:06.313> display<00:14:06.618> advertisers<00:14:07.259> have<00:14:07.500> come<00:14:07.757> down.

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Um,<00:14:08.543> they<00:14:08.623> kind<00:14:08.735> of,<00:14:08.879> I<00:14:08.960> think,<00:14:09.762> I<00:14:09.778> mean,<00:14:10.082> one<00:14:10.259> of<00:14:10.323> the<00:14:10.403> statistics<00:14:10.965> we<00:14:11.045> saw,<00:14:11.670> um,<00:14:12.087> was<00:14:12.248> that<00:14:13.034> Q4,<00:14:13.675> which<00:14:13.788> is<00:14:13.852> typically<00:14:14.173> a<00:14:14.253> very<00:14:14.413> strong<00:14:14.879> period<00:14:15.135> of<00:14:15.199> time<00:14:15.456> for<00:14:15.697> those<00:14:15.873> type<00:14:16.162> of<00:14:16.242> businesses,<00:14:16.964> was<00:14:17.140> down<00:14:17.381> about<00:14:17.621> 40<00:14:18.103> to<00:14:18.263> 50%<00:14:18.969> year<00:14:19.225> on<00:14:19.370> year.

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Um,<00:14:20.124> so<00:14:20.332> there<00:14:20.429> was<00:14:20.589> definitely<00:14:21.231> a<00:14:21.295> material<00:14:21.968> movement<00:14:22.594> in<00:14:22.674> terms<00:14:22.979> of,<00:14:23.059> you<00:14:23.091> know,<00:14:23.300> what<00:14:23.460> we<00:14:23.556> heard<00:14:23.781> out<00:14:23.877> of<00:14:24.022> Google<00:14:24.342> and<00:14:24.423> some<00:14:24.599> other<00:14:24.743> places.

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Um,<00:14:26.043> but<00:14:26.363> we<00:14:26.588> are<00:14:26.620> seeing<00:14:27.005> that<00:14:27.246> bounce<00:14:27.567> back<00:14:27.823> now<00:14:28.064> as<00:14:28.272> well.

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So<00:14:28.754> I<00:14:28.850> think<00:14:29.090> that,<00:14:29.235> you<00:14:29.315> know,<00:14:29.540> the<00:14:29.717> underlying<00:14:30.284> connotation<00:14:30.963> of<00:14:31.092> high<00:14:31.432> interest<00:14:31.901> rates<00:14:32.305> and<00:14:33.114> all<00:14:34.489> the<00:14:34.586> inflation,<00:14:35.136> everything<00:14:35.572> that<00:14:35.896> is<00:14:36.041> associated,<00:14:37.673> that<00:14:37.834> is<00:14:37.980> there<00:14:38.093> to<00:14:38.465> also<00:14:38.562> be<00:14:38.707> combated<00:14:39.063> is<00:14:39.209> people<00:14:39.451> are<00:14:39.483> still<00:14:39.694> spending.

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And<00:14:40.502> that<00:14:40.728> is<00:14:40.825> the<00:14:40.922> reality<00:14:41.553> of<00:14:41.715> it.

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I<00:14:42.281> mean,<00:14:42.766> you<00:14:42.911> can't<00:14:44.302> have<00:14:44.722> the<00:14:44.867> inflationary<00:14:45.611> measures,<00:14:46.015> obviously,<00:14:46.581> unless<00:14:46.808> it's<00:14:47.180> supply<00:14:48.596> chain<00:14:49.384> dynamics<00:14:49.851> related,<00:14:50.334> which<00:14:50.446> I<00:14:50.511> think<00:14:50.672> a<00:14:50.817> lot<00:14:50.929> of<00:14:50.994> that<00:14:51.138> has<00:14:51.299> shifted<00:14:51.653> away<00:14:51.943> from<00:14:52.185> now.

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It's<00:14:52.828> now<00:14:53.005> kind<00:14:53.150> of<00:14:53.311> really<00:14:53.730> in<00:14:53.810> focus<00:14:54.293> is<00:14:54.454> the<00:14:54.534> spending,<00:14:54.953> and<00:14:55.081> that's<00:14:55.258> continued.

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The<00:14:56.282> CPMs<00:14:56.924> in<00:14:57.005> that<00:14:57.165> kind<00:14:57.342> of<00:14:57.390> space<00:14:57.872> have<00:14:57.968> started<00:14:58.370> to<00:14:58.450> come<00:14:58.691> back,<00:14:59.397> um,<00:14:59.574> you<00:14:59.654> know,<00:14:59.718> in<00:14:59.750> the<00:14:59.895> first<00:15:00.136> quarter<00:15:00.473> of<00:15:00.601> this<00:15:00.842> year.

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So<00:15:01.581> yeah,<00:15:01.886> in<00:15:01.966> terms<00:15:02.159> of<00:15:02.287> what<00:15:02.448> we're<00:15:02.625> seeing,<00:15:02.962> you<00:15:03.026> know,<00:15:03.187> healthy<00:15:03.508> recovery<00:15:04.070> there<00:15:04.310> too.

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Um,<00:15:05.194> but<00:15:05.434> the<00:15:05.595> real<00:15:05.900> beneficiary,<00:15:06.542> I<00:15:06.558> would<00:15:06.655> say,<00:15:07.185> um,<00:15:07.442> you<00:15:07.522> know,<00:15:07.586> the<00:15:07.666> past<00:15:07.907> couple<00:15:08.132> of<00:15:08.244> years<00:15:08.903> in<00:15:09.047> the<00:15:09.368> digital<00:15:09.850> media<00:15:10.171> space<00:15:10.492> would<00:15:10.653> be,<00:15:11.279> uh,<00:15:11.616> you<00:15:11.680> know,<00:15:11.921> the<00:15:12.082> course<00:15:12.499> businesses,<00:15:13.045> learning<00:15:13.463> businesses,<00:15:14.169> um,<00:15:14.587> anything<00:15:15.213> education<00:15:16.192> related.

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EdTech<00:15:17.236> businesses<00:15:17.621> and<00:15:17.702> SaaS<00:15:17.943> have<00:15:18.103> done<00:15:18.199> really<00:15:18.440> well<00:15:18.617> as<00:15:18.761> well.

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Um,<00:15:19.420> so<00:15:19.789> that<00:15:19.966> has<00:15:20.190> been<00:15:20.351> a<00:15:20.769> very,<00:15:21.009> very<00:15:21.170> hot<00:15:21.475> part<00:15:21.555> of<00:15:22.694> the<00:15:23.192> market.

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And,<00:15:25.165> uh,<00:15:25.197> moving<00:15:25.566> to<00:15:25.823> e-commerce<00:15:26.384> for<00:15:26.465> a<00:15:26.481> second,<00:15:27.844> it<00:15:27.973> does<00:15:28.149> seem<00:15:28.390> like<00:15:28.614> Shopify<00:15:29.336> really<00:15:29.593> kind<00:15:29.753> of<00:15:29.834> democratized<00:15:31.277> this,<00:15:32.064> um,<00:15:33.026> idea<00:15:33.283> that<00:15:33.427> you<00:15:33.588> could<00:15:33.764> kind<00:15:33.925> of<00:15:34.326> beta<00:15:34.711> test<00:15:34.983> at<00:15:35.112> the<00:15:35.208> very<00:15:35.545> least<00:15:36.026> your,<00:15:36.315> your<00:15:36.491> brand,<00:15:37.053> your<00:15:37.213> product,<00:15:37.679> all<00:15:37.775> that<00:15:37.951> stuff,<00:15:38.738> and<00:15:38.834> then<00:15:38.978> maybe<00:15:39.363> build<00:15:39.684> into<00:15:40.037> or<00:15:40.246> keep<00:15:40.438> it<00:15:40.502> on<00:15:40.647> Shopify<00:15:41.144> forever<00:15:41.513> or<00:15:41.689> build<00:15:41.882> in<00:15:42.010> your<00:15:42.331> own<00:15:42.492> platform<00:15:42.989> and<00:15:43.069> that<00:15:43.230> type<00:15:43.470> of<00:15:43.534> thing.

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Uh,<00:15:44.898> and<00:15:44.994> some<00:15:45.235> of<00:15:45.315> the<00:15:45.476> incredible,<00:15:46.599> like,<00:15:47.000> brands<00:15:47.465> that<00:15:47.529> have<00:15:47.641> come<00:15:48.107> out<00:15:48.283> just<00:15:48.412> because<00:15:48.909> over<00:15:49.005> the<00:15:49.085> past<00:15:49.326> decade<00:15:49.583> are<00:15:49.711> now<00:15:49.807> like<00:15:50.048> household<00:15:50.449> names.

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I'm<00:15:50.850> thinking<00:15:51.091> like<00:15:51.733> Lululemon,<00:15:52.840> for<00:15:53.000> example,<00:15:53.963> or<00:15:54.124> things<00:15:54.300> like<00:15:54.461> that<00:15:54.765> where<00:15:54.862> it's<00:15:55.086> just<00:15:55.263> incredible<00:15:56.290> what<00:15:56.466> can<00:15:56.627> be<00:15:56.868> built<00:15:57.124> now<00:15:57.509> where<00:15:57.670> like<00:15:57.911> 20<00:15:58.151> years<00:15:58.456> ago<00:15:58.649> something<00:15:58.954> like<00:15:59.114> that<00:15:59.259> would've<00:15:59.435> been<00:15:59.579> almost<00:16:00.013> impossible,<00:16:00.558> I<00:16:00.703> would<00:16:00.863> think.

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So<00:16:02.789> what's<00:16:03.126> your<00:16:03.286> thoughts<00:16:03.527> on<00:16:03.671> the<00:16:03.704> state<00:16:04.073> of<00:16:04.313> e-commerce<00:16:04.971> and<00:16:05.116> kind<00:16:05.276> of<00:16:05.372> its<00:16:05.533> future?

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No.

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Yeah,<00:16:07.378> I<00:16:07.426> mean,<00:16:07.699> you're<00:16:08.004> completely<00:16:08.405> right.

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And<00:16:08.887> I<00:16:08.919> think<00:16:09.384> e-commerce<00:16:10.122> is<00:16:10.203> a<00:16:10.267> fascinating<00:16:10.989> space.

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I<00:16:11.968> could<00:16:12.257> honestly<00:16:12.513> talk<00:16:12.690> about<00:16:12.850> it<00:16:12.979> for<00:16:13.139> hours.

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I<00:16:13.492> mean,<00:16:13.637> I<00:16:13.717> think<00:16:14.022> that<00:16:14.519> in<00:16:14.599> terms<00:16:15.065> of,<00:16:16.349> you<00:16:16.381> know,<00:16:16.926> in<00:16:17.022> terms<00:16:17.263> of<00:16:17.648> if<00:16:17.729> we<00:16:17.809> gotta<00:16:17.969> take<00:16:18.290> a,<00:16:18.595> you<00:16:18.627> know,<00:16:18.933> take<00:16:19.175> a<00:16:19.191> step<00:16:19.498> back<00:16:19.740> for<00:16:19.821> a<00:16:19.837> second<00:16:20.127> in<00:16:20.208> terms<00:16:20.402> of<00:16:20.547> e-commerce,<00:16:21.112> it<00:16:21.273> basically<00:16:21.757> brackets<00:16:22.161> into<00:16:22.806> a<00:16:22.903> couple<00:16:23.290> of<00:16:23.436> different<00:16:23.758> areas.

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You<00:16:24.162> have<00:16:24.323> the<00:16:24.485> Amazon<00:16:24.888> FBA<00:16:26.437> side<00:16:26.776> of<00:16:26.905> it,<00:16:27.083> which<00:16:27.728> has<00:16:27.906> seen<00:16:28.116> incredible<00:16:28.682> growth<00:16:29.911> and<00:16:31.431> great<00:16:31.609> for<00:16:31.754> that<00:16:32.094> as<00:16:32.191> a<00:16:32.337> business<00:16:32.660> model.

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I<00:16:33.048> think<00:16:33.291> that<00:16:33.404> some<00:16:33.711> people<00:16:34.019> now<00:16:34.277> are<00:16:34.342> looking<00:16:34.601> at<00:16:34.682> that<00:16:35.312> and<00:16:35.636> obviously<00:16:35.814> that<00:16:36.056> growth<00:16:36.364> was<00:16:36.444> then<00:16:36.558> associated<00:16:37.108> with<00:16:37.205> a<00:16:37.415> lot<00:16:37.512> of<00:16:37.657> aggregators<00:16:38.320> raising<00:16:38.643> capital,<00:16:39.758> you<00:16:39.790> know,<00:16:39.952> Thrasyo,<00:16:40.582> etc.

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Over<00:16:41.406> time<00:16:42.344> and<00:16:42.441> obviously<00:16:43.152> literally<00:16:43.556> hundreds<00:16:43.911> of<00:16:44.040> others.

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I<00:16:44.945> think<00:16:45.107> they<00:16:45.188> were<00:16:45.349> kind<00:16:45.511> of<00:16:45.622> the<00:16:45.927> first<00:16:46.264> and<00:16:46.409> likely<00:16:47.067> largest.

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But<00:16:48.432> they,<00:16:48.673> yeah,<00:16:48.994> raised<00:16:49.219> a<00:16:49.235> lot<00:16:49.332> of<00:16:49.396> capital,<00:16:50.102> made<00:16:50.295> a<00:16:50.343> lot<00:16:50.424> of<00:16:50.504> acquisitions.

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And<00:16:52.351> I<00:16:52.431> think<00:16:52.752> that,<00:16:53.154> you<00:16:53.186> know,<00:16:53.411> that<00:16:53.652> FBA<00:16:53.909> model<00:16:54.214> certainly<00:16:54.615> had<00:16:55.097> a<00:16:55.178> time<00:16:55.515> and<00:16:55.643> a<00:16:55.659> place,<00:16:55.884> and<00:16:55.981> I<00:16:56.061> think<00:16:56.221> it<00:16:56.270> will<00:16:56.446> continue<00:16:56.864> to<00:16:56.944> do<00:16:57.185> very<00:16:57.490> well.

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But<00:16:58.374> I<00:16:58.390> think<00:16:58.775> that<00:16:59.096> ultimately<00:17:00.461> the<00:17:00.558> fees<00:17:00.895> associated<00:17:01.682> with<00:17:01.907> that—<00:17:02.084> now,<00:17:02.389> as<00:17:02.501> I<00:17:02.549> was<00:17:02.726> reading<00:17:03.208> an<00:17:03.288> article<00:17:04.075> a<00:17:04.252> couple<00:17:04.477> of<00:17:04.557> days<00:17:04.750> ago<00:17:04.974> that<00:17:05.055> basically<00:17:05.360> said<00:17:05.488> it's<00:17:05.761> over<00:17:05.938> 50%<00:17:06.340> if<00:17:06.757> you<00:17:06.821> start<00:17:07.143> adding<00:17:07.383> on<00:17:07.544> all<00:17:07.689> the<00:17:07.769> fees<00:17:08.042> associated<00:17:08.813> with<00:17:08.990> that.

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So<00:17:09.696> I<00:17:09.712> think<00:17:09.969> that<00:17:10.194> now<00:17:10.515> a<00:17:10.660> lot<00:17:10.836> of<00:17:10.917> people<00:17:11.158> are<00:17:11.238> looking<00:17:11.463> at,<00:17:11.623> well,<00:17:11.945> you<00:17:11.977> know,<00:17:13.330> alternatives.

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Shopify,<00:17:14.050> I<00:17:14.051> think<00:17:14.430> dropshipping<00:17:14.990> is<00:17:15.150> starting<00:17:15.430> to<00:17:15.590> see<00:17:15.730> a<00:17:15.810> bit<00:17:15.930> of<00:17:16.110> a<00:17:16.189> resurgence.

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I'm<00:17:17.170> not<00:17:17.290> sure<00:17:17.390> if<00:17:17.490> you<00:17:17.570> remember,<00:17:17.870> but<00:17:17.871> dropshipping,<00:17:18.590> you<00:17:18.591> know,<00:17:18.950> back<00:17:19.050> in<00:17:19.230> the<00:17:19.370> early<00:17:19.770> kind<00:17:19.970> of<00:17:20.110> 2012<00:17:21.550> through<00:17:21.830> 2015<00:17:22.330> was<00:17:22.530> very<00:17:22.850> popular.

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Um,<00:17:24.110> and<00:17:24.270> then,<00:17:24.490> you<00:17:24.550> know,<00:17:24.870> it<00:17:24.871> started<00:17:25.110> to<00:17:25.330> fall<00:17:25.490> out<00:17:25.670> of<00:17:25.830> fashion,<00:17:26.170> um,<00:17:26.730> you<00:17:26.731> know,<00:17:26.930> in<00:17:26.931> terms<00:17:27.130> of,<00:17:27.270> you<00:17:27.350> know,<00:17:27.610> buyer<00:17:27.830> interest<00:17:28.130> and<00:17:28.270> other<00:17:28.430> things<00:17:28.690> as—<00:17:29.410> and<00:17:29.670> obviously,<00:17:30.070> you<00:17:30.130> know,<00:17:30.690> interest<00:17:30.790> of<00:17:30.990> operators<00:17:31.390> as<00:17:31.670> well<00:17:31.890> as<00:17:32.130> they<00:17:32.250> were<00:17:32.390> starting<00:17:32.690> businesses<00:17:33.030> in<00:17:33.310> favor<00:17:33.670> of<00:17:33.830> FBA<00:17:34.190> because<00:17:34.390> it<00:17:34.530> became<00:17:34.770> so<00:17:35.050> simple<00:17:35.390> and<00:17:35.610> so<00:17:35.890> easy.

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Then<00:17:36.590> obviously<00:17:36.830> you<00:17:36.910> had<00:17:37.030> Shopify<00:17:37.510> that<00:17:37.810> kind<00:17:38.070> of<00:17:38.170> lent<00:17:38.390> off<00:17:38.550> the,<00:17:38.710> you<00:17:38.810> know,<00:17:39.010> kind<00:17:39.190> of<00:17:39.930> took<00:17:40.580> the<00:17:41.600> rolling<00:17:41.880> ball<00:17:42.140> and<00:17:42.280> kind<00:17:42.540> of<00:17:42.541> pushed<00:17:42.640> it<00:17:42.840> further<00:17:43.080> and<00:17:43.300> faster<00:17:43.760> as<00:17:43.940> well.

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But<00:17:44.880> dropshipping<00:17:45.380> is,<00:17:46.040> with<00:17:46.041> the<00:17:46.240> fee<00:17:46.720> levels<00:17:46.920> where<00:17:47.140> they<00:17:47.220> are<00:17:47.400> with<00:17:47.560> FBA,<00:17:47.980> is<00:17:48.180> starting<00:17:48.460> to<00:17:48.740> see<00:17:49.140> a<00:17:49.500> resurgence,<00:17:50.160> certainly.

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But<00:17:51.720> Shopify,<00:17:52.200> yeah,<00:17:52.340> we<00:17:52.580> really<00:17:52.880> like<00:17:53.180> the<00:17:53.400> Shopify<00:17:53.760> ecosystem.

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It's<00:17:55.200> a<00:17:55.459> great<00:17:55.580> platform,<00:17:56.120> obviously<00:17:56.500> tiered<00:17:56.780> into<00:17:57.020> its<00:17:57.180> kind<00:17:57.280> of<00:17:57.360> basic<00:17:57.820> and<00:17:58.160> kind<00:17:58.380> of<00:17:58.500> plus<00:17:58.860> side<00:17:59.700> as<00:18:00.000> well.

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And<00:18:00.360> I<00:18:00.480> think<00:18:00.760> the<00:18:01.700> telltale<00:18:02.080> sign<00:18:02.400> that<00:18:02.540> Shopify,<00:18:03.500> obviously,<00:18:04.360> they're<00:18:04.960> a<00:18:05.060> public<00:18:05.200> company,<00:18:05.440> they<00:18:05.580> release<00:18:05.880> their<00:18:06.100> data.

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The<00:18:06.920> number<00:18:07.240> of<00:18:07.480> users<00:18:07.860> on<00:18:08.100> Shopify<00:18:08.500> continues<00:18:09.200> to<00:18:09.360> go<00:18:09.380> up<00:18:09.400> over<00:18:09.420> time,<00:18:09.440> irrespective<00:18:09.460> of<00:18:09.480> what's<00:18:11.280> happening<00:18:11.460> on<00:18:11.680> the<00:18:11.920> macro<00:18:12.240> side.

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So<00:18:12.880> yeah,<00:18:13.220> people<00:18:13.400> really<00:18:13.960> are<00:18:14.400> continuing<00:18:14.960> to<00:18:15.140> invest<00:18:15.500> in<00:18:16.100> kind<00:18:16.300> of<00:18:16.360> starting<00:18:16.800> and<00:18:17.000> launching<00:18:17.260> and<00:18:17.540> operating<00:18:18.040> these<00:18:18.300> businesses.

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And<00:18:19.120> if<00:18:19.420> you<00:18:19.680> look<00:18:20.140> at<00:18:20.280> a<00:18:20.500> secondary<00:18:20.880> data<00:18:21.360> point,<00:18:21.900> the<00:18:21.901> actual<00:18:22.240> apps<00:18:22.740> associated—<00:18:23.900> so<00:18:23.901> Shopify<00:18:24.400> has<00:18:24.700> its<00:18:25.240> own<00:18:25.241> kind<00:18:25.460> of<00:18:25.461> app,<00:18:25.980> kind<00:18:26.320> of<00:18:26.420> SaaS<00:18:26.860> app<00:18:27.220> marketplace<00:18:27.760> ecosystem.

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Over<00:18:29.080> the<00:18:29.220> past,<00:18:29.700> I<00:18:29.820> would<00:18:30.000> say,<00:18:30.740> 4<00:18:30.880> to<00:18:31.040> 5<00:18:31.360> years,<00:18:31.740> that's<00:18:31.940> gone<00:18:32.160> from,<00:18:32.580> I<00:18:32.700> think<00:18:32.840> it<00:18:32.980> was<00:18:33.360> about<00:18:33.680> 2,500,<00:18:34.300> 3,000<00:18:35.020> apps<00:18:35.360> to<00:18:35.520> over<00:18:35.760> 8,000<00:18:36.280> apps<00:18:36.540> now.

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So<00:18:37.280> there<00:18:37.540> is<00:18:37.660> a<00:18:37.840> real<00:18:38.060> demand<00:18:39.080> in<00:18:40.440> both<00:18:40.640> a<00:18:40.900> SaaS<00:18:41.120> connotation<00:18:41.260> and<00:18:41.280> an<00:18:41.300> e-commerce<00:18:41.320> connotation.

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For<00:18:43.130> what<00:18:43.310> they<00:18:43.490> offer.

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Obviously,<00:18:44.430> as<00:18:44.550> you<00:18:44.650> kind<00:18:44.810> of<00:18:44.811> alluded<00:18:45.150> to,<00:18:45.350> they<00:18:45.450> do<00:18:45.690> then<00:18:45.870> get<00:18:46.070> to<00:18:46.190> a<00:18:46.430> point<00:18:46.590> where,<00:18:47.250> you<00:18:47.270> know,<00:18:47.730> you<00:18:48.130> become<00:18:48.530> a<00:18:48.850> Lululemon<00:18:49.130> and<00:18:49.370> you<00:18:49.450> may<00:18:49.570> say,<00:18:49.970> okay,<00:18:50.050> well,<00:18:50.350> it<00:18:50.530> makes<00:18:50.710> more<00:18:51.029> sense<00:18:51.210> for<00:18:51.370> us<00:18:51.510> to<00:18:51.650> actually<00:18:51.830> go<00:18:52.050> off<00:18:52.210> and<00:18:52.330> build<00:18:52.570> our<00:18:52.830> business<00:18:53.070> on,<00:18:53.450> you<00:18:53.550> know,<00:18:54.010> a<00:18:54.270> completely<00:18:54.470> custom<00:18:55.050> platform.

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And<00:18:55.790> I<00:18:55.910> know<00:18:56.010> a<00:18:56.150> lot<00:18:56.230> of<00:18:56.390> customers<00:18:56.750> to<00:18:56.910> kind<00:18:57.070> of<00:18:57.310> get<00:18:57.510> to<00:18:57.650> a<00:18:57.850> certain<00:18:58.170> point.

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I<00:18:58.550> mean,<00:18:58.710> in<00:18:59.010> terms<00:18:59.130> of<00:18:59.250> testing,<00:18:59.750> you're<00:18:59.810> completely<00:19:00.070> right.

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A<00:19:00.470> lot<00:19:00.471> of<00:19:00.630> people<00:19:00.810> will<00:19:01.110> use<00:19:01.270> Shopify.

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They'll<00:19:02.490> figure<00:19:02.750> out<00:19:02.950> what<00:19:03.290> their<00:19:03.530> kind<00:19:04.070> of<00:19:04.250> winning<00:19:04.530> product<00:19:05.030> is<00:19:05.390> through<00:19:05.790> whatever<00:19:06.390> advertising<00:19:07.070> or<00:19:08.010> source<00:19:08.650> they're<00:19:09.370> kind<00:19:09.390> of<00:19:09.450> pushing<00:19:09.750> traffic<00:19:10.170> from.

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And<00:19:10.570> then<00:19:10.810> once<00:19:11.050> they<00:19:11.230> work<00:19:11.490> that<00:19:11.750> out,<00:19:11.930> they'll<00:19:12.070> go<00:19:12.190> off,<00:19:12.710> build<00:19:12.990> their<00:19:13.390> own<00:19:13.710> kind<00:19:13.810> of<00:19:13.990> landing<00:19:14.270> pages<00:19:14.690> or<00:19:14.870> their<00:19:15.010> own<00:19:15.210> site,<00:19:15.590> plug<00:19:15.870> in<00:19:16.170> something<00:19:16.350> like<00:19:16.750> ThriveCart,<00:19:17.490> which<00:19:17.491> is<00:19:17.630> very<00:19:17.970> popular<00:19:18.530> in<00:19:19.190> terms<00:19:19.470> of<00:19:19.590> kind<00:19:19.690> of<00:19:19.850> checkout<00:19:20.210> process<00:19:20.870> and<00:19:21.210> kind<00:19:21.310> of<00:19:21.490> managing<00:19:22.110> payments<00:19:23.010> and<00:19:23.170> all<00:19:23.370> those<00:19:23.530> type<00:19:23.750> of<00:19:23.910> things.

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And<00:19:24.290> then<00:19:24.390> they'll<00:19:24.590> just<00:19:24.790> operate<00:19:25.170> that<00:19:25.390> way<00:19:25.590> forward.

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So<00:19:25.991> what<00:19:26.210> we're<00:19:26.410> seeing<00:19:26.411> is<00:19:26.530> a<00:19:26.690> lot<00:19:26.770> of<00:19:26.910> people<00:19:27.130> operating<00:19:27.810> an<00:19:28.290> omnichannel<00:19:29.090> style<00:19:29.610> approach<00:19:30.070> in<00:19:30.210> terms<00:19:30.550> of<00:19:31.270> they'll<00:19:31.630> have<00:19:31.830> their<00:19:32.050> FBA<00:19:32.490> side,<00:19:32.910> they'll<00:19:32.930> have<00:19:33.070> their<00:19:33.210> kind<00:19:33.270> of<00:19:33.390> branded<00:19:33.870> Shopify<00:19:35.090> side,<00:19:35.370> and<00:19:35.470> then<00:19:35.530> they'll<00:19:35.650> have<00:19:35.810> another<00:19:36.250> side<00:19:36.830> which<00:19:36.950> is<00:19:37.170> more<00:19:37.430> for<00:19:37.530> their<00:19:37.730> kind<00:19:37.810> of<00:19:37.870> winning<00:19:38.210> tier<00:19:38.550> 2.

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So<00:19:38.990> people<00:19:39.190> are<00:19:39.370> definitely<00:19:39.630> getting<00:19:40.010> more<00:19:40.830> sophisticated<00:19:41.230> over<00:19:42.090> time<00:19:42.250> in<00:19:42.550> terms<00:19:42.770> of<00:19:42.870> how<00:19:42.970> they<00:19:42.990> approach<00:19:43.010> this.

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But<00:19:43.050> Shopify<00:19:43.070> is<00:19:43.090> a<00:19:44.736> fantastic<00:19:45.314> testing<00:19:45.796> bed<00:19:47.081> for<00:19:47.306> exactly<00:19:47.884> this.

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Yes,<00:19:48.688> that's<00:19:49.330> completely<00:19:49.716> correct.

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Now<00:19:51.579> here's<00:19:51.900> the<00:19:52.045> trillion-dollar<00:19:52.704> question.

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How<00:19:53.426> does<00:19:53.812> AI<00:19:54.712> disrupt<00:19:55.258> all<00:19:55.434> of<00:19:55.579> this?

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Well,<00:19:57.442> if<00:19:57.587> I<00:19:57.619> knew<00:19:57.844> the<00:19:58.005> answer<00:19:58.262> to<00:19:58.471> that,<00:20:02.021> it's<00:20:02.503> hard<00:20:03.145> to<00:20:03.290> tell<00:20:03.611> because<00:20:03.852> a<00:20:03.948> lot<00:20:04.125> of<00:20:04.254> the—<00:20:04.687> I<00:20:04.736> mean,<00:20:04.832> from<00:20:05.057> what<00:20:05.555> I<00:20:05.699> have,<00:20:05.796> a<00:20:05.860> very<00:20:06.117> basic<00:20:06.454> understanding<00:20:07.723> of<00:20:07.804> how<00:20:08.189> I<00:20:08.286> think,<00:20:08.446> like<00:20:08.607> a<00:20:08.687> lot<00:20:08.784> of<00:20:08.848> people,<00:20:09.169> of<00:20:09.394> how<00:20:09.796> AI<00:20:10.197> works.

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I've<00:20:11.177> played<00:20:11.579> around<00:20:12.061> with<00:20:12.558> some<00:20:13.007> of<00:20:13.423> the<00:20:13.503> text<00:20:13.888> generation<00:20:14.545> tools<00:20:14.865> and<00:20:15.010> those<00:20:15.250> type<00:20:15.490> of<00:20:15.651> things.

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But<00:20:17.333> I<00:20:17.429> think<00:20:18.295> the<00:20:18.375> reality<00:20:18.952> is<00:20:19.416> how<00:20:20.474> long<00:20:20.778> is<00:20:20.875> a<00:20:20.939> piece<00:20:21.195> of<00:20:21.259> string?

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I<00:20:21.900> think<00:20:22.461> AI<00:20:22.958> has<00:20:23.198> the<00:20:23.294> ability<00:20:23.679> to<00:20:23.839> do<00:20:25.105> weird<00:20:25.377> and<00:20:25.602> wonderful<00:20:26.099> things.

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How<00:20:26.980> much<00:20:27.220> of<00:20:27.300> that<00:20:27.525> is<00:20:27.605> going<00:20:27.749> to<00:20:27.829> be<00:20:27.925> allowed<00:20:28.486> with<00:20:28.630> regulations<00:20:29.271> that<00:20:29.368> are<00:20:29.512> inevitably<00:20:30.025> going<00:20:30.249> to<00:20:30.313> come<00:20:30.505> over<00:20:30.746> time<00:20:31.130> is<00:20:31.274> going<00:20:31.355> to<00:20:31.435> depend<00:20:31.851> on<00:20:32.012> how<00:20:32.252> far<00:20:34.175> that<00:20:34.335> can<00:20:34.495> be<00:20:34.575> stretched.

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I<00:20:35.072> mean,<00:20:35.441> a<00:20:35.457> lot<00:20:35.601> of<00:20:35.761> low-level<00:20:36.178> tasks<00:20:36.659> can<00:20:36.883> definitely<00:20:37.219> be<00:20:37.364> replaced<00:20:37.780> by<00:20:38.085> AI.

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I<00:20:38.551> mean,<00:20:38.910> we're<00:20:38.990> talking<00:20:39.190> about<00:20:40.370> sticking<00:20:40.830> with<00:20:43.910> the<00:20:43.930> topic<00:20:44.170> of<00:20:44.490> e-commerce<00:20:44.790> for<00:20:45.070> a<00:20:45.230> second,<00:20:46.190> the<00:20:46.270> need<00:20:46.610> to<00:20:46.850> use<00:20:47.070> products<00:20:47.510> or<00:20:47.890> kind<00:20:48.010> of<00:20:48.070> services<00:20:48.530> to<00:20:48.690> go<00:20:48.870> out<00:20:49.110> and<00:20:49.210> do<00:20:49.550> product<00:20:49.810> descriptions<00:20:50.430> for<00:20:50.630> highly<00:20:51.410> curated<00:20:51.930> product<00:20:52.230> descriptions<00:20:52.530> for<00:20:52.730> every<00:20:53.010> new<00:20:53.190> product<00:20:53.470> you<00:20:53.610> may<00:20:53.770> be<00:20:53.910> kind<00:20:53.990> of<00:20:54.030> bringing<00:20:54.330> online.

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Those<00:20:55.270> services<00:20:55.870> may<00:20:56.590> need<00:20:56.930> to<00:20:57.050> adopt<00:20:57.430> AI<00:20:57.810> very<00:20:58.130> quickly<00:20:58.490> because<00:20:58.790> somebody<00:20:59.170> may<00:20:59.390> just<00:20:59.530> decide,<00:21:00.090> oh,<00:21:00.091> I<00:21:00.170> can<00:21:00.210> actually<00:21:00.430> go<00:21:00.650> out<00:21:00.870> and<00:21:00.871> do<00:21:01.050> this<00:21:01.190> for<00:21:01.390> myself<00:21:01.710> instead<00:21:01.930> of<00:21:02.050> paying<00:21:02.310> the<00:21:02.470> subscription<00:21:02.850> for<00:21:03.050> this<00:21:03.210> product<00:21:03.510> to<00:21:03.630> do<00:21:03.850> that.

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So<00:21:04.310> I<00:21:04.470> think<00:21:04.730> that<00:21:05.290> would<00:21:05.470> be<00:21:05.590> kind<00:21:05.830> of<00:21:05.831> a<00:21:05.870> very<00:21:06.050> obvious<00:21:06.510> one.

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I<00:21:07.270> think<00:21:07.470> there's<00:21:07.710> a<00:21:07.830> lot<00:21:07.950> of<00:21:08.050> AI<00:21:08.470> that's<00:21:08.530> kind<00:21:08.550> of<00:21:08.570> flowing<00:21:08.590> into<00:21:08.610> the<00:21:10.450> backend<00:21:10.866> of<00:21:10.946> actual<00:21:11.187> kind<00:21:11.283> of<00:21:11.347> funnel<00:21:11.748> management<00:21:12.245> and<00:21:12.325> kind<00:21:12.469> of<00:21:12.790> on<00:21:12.870> the<00:21:12.950> marketing<00:21:13.527> side.

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So<00:21:13.848> it's<00:21:14.169> probably<00:21:14.393> gonna<00:21:14.553> impact,<00:21:14.874> you<00:21:14.906> know,<00:21:15.002> martech<00:21:15.708> more<00:21:15.916> than<00:21:16.012> anything<00:21:16.413> else.

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But<00:21:17.295> in<00:21:17.375> the,<00:21:17.535> but<00:21:17.759> I<00:21:17.920> think<00:21:18.112> that<00:21:18.337> from<00:21:18.497> what<00:21:18.657> we<00:21:18.801> are<00:21:18.834> seeing,<00:21:19.138> certainly,<00:21:20.004> obviously<00:21:20.244> you've<00:21:20.405> seen<00:21:20.661> kind<00:21:20.821> of,<00:21:20.918> you<00:21:20.966> know,<00:21:21.126> the<00:21:21.382> Jaspers<00:21:21.783> of<00:21:21.847> the<00:21:21.943> world<00:21:22.120> and<00:21:22.248> those<00:21:22.360> sort<00:21:22.505> of<00:21:22.569> things.

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These<00:21:23.290> companies<00:21:23.627> are<00:21:23.707> adopting<00:21:24.188> it<00:21:24.332> very,<00:21:24.508> very<00:21:24.749> quickly.

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So,<00:21:25.695> you<00:21:25.727> know,<00:21:25.951> obviously<00:21:26.336> AI<00:21:26.737> being<00:21:27.057> a,<00:21:27.634> you<00:21:27.731> know,<00:21:28.019> a<00:21:28.035> software<00:21:28.596> SaaS<00:21:29.382> type<00:21:29.638> product<00:21:30.199> in,<00:21:30.440> in<00:21:30.520> its<00:21:30.680> first<00:21:30.937> instance,<00:21:31.402> the<00:21:31.626> rate<00:21:31.818> of<00:21:31.899> adoption<00:21:32.363> within<00:21:32.668> software<00:21:33.309> and<00:21:33.357> SaaS<00:21:33.550> is,<00:21:33.790> is<00:21:33.886> very,<00:21:34.191> very,<00:21:34.431> you<00:21:34.512> know,<00:21:34.832> fast.

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And<00:21:36.115> I<00:21:36.355> think<00:21:36.435> the,<00:21:36.483> you<00:21:36.515> know,<00:21:36.852> it's<00:21:37.173> yet<00:21:37.430> to<00:21:37.574> be<00:21:37.670> seen<00:21:37.975> in<00:21:38.056> terms<00:21:38.312> of<00:21:38.521> what<00:21:38.617> it<00:21:38.697> can<00:21:38.842> achieve<00:21:39.243> and<00:21:39.339> importantly<00:21:39.740> what<00:21:39.804> we'll<00:21:39.981> let<00:21:40.125> it<00:21:40.221> achieve<00:21:40.558> as<00:21:40.703> well<00:21:41.425> with<00:21:41.585> all<00:21:41.986> the<00:21:42.131> regulation<00:21:42.644> that<00:21:42.933> at<00:21:43.350> some<00:21:43.671> point<00:21:44.136> will<00:21:44.409> certainly<00:21:44.874> have<00:21:45.034> to<00:21:45.179> come.

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I<00:21:45.756> mean,<00:21:45.933> if<00:21:45.997> you've<00:21:46.157> been<00:21:46.318> following<00:21:47.120> on<00:21:47.184> the<00:21:47.345> education<00:21:47.922> side<00:21:48.404> already,<00:21:49.350> plagiarism<00:21:50.072> checkers,<00:21:50.874> products<00:21:52.158> like<00:21:52.639> QText,<00:21:53.281> for<00:21:53.441> example,<00:21:54.099> very<00:21:54.275> popular<00:21:54.885> plagiarism<00:21:55.366> checker,<00:21:56.024> integrating<00:21:56.650> that<00:21:56.826> with<00:21:57.051> AI<00:21:57.388> and<00:21:57.468> other<00:21:57.693> things<00:21:57.869> as<00:21:57.949> well.

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I<00:21:58.254> mean,<00:21:58.431> this<00:21:58.607> now<00:21:58.816> has<00:21:58.992> to<00:21:59.089> be<00:21:59.233> done<00:21:59.554> because<00:22:00.019> if<00:22:00.179> I<00:22:00.340> were<00:22:00.420> a<00:22:00.436> college<00:22:00.837> graduate<00:22:01.319> writing<00:22:01.704> a<00:22:01.800> thesis,<00:22:02.217> I<00:22:02.265> mean,<00:22:02.667> that's<00:22:02.843> the<00:22:02.924> first<00:22:03.245> thing<00:22:03.405> I<00:22:03.470> would<00:22:03.566> be<00:22:03.646> trying.

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So,<00:22:04.674> um,<00:22:05.012> maybe<00:22:05.333> there's<00:22:06.040> lots<00:22:06.232> of<00:22:06.377> weird<00:22:06.634> and<00:22:06.762> wonderful<00:22:07.164> ways<00:22:07.421> it's<00:22:07.582> going<00:22:07.758> to<00:22:07.903> be<00:22:08.048> used,<00:22:08.465> uh,<00:22:08.851> throughout<00:22:09.124> society,<00:22:09.590> I'm<00:22:09.814> sure.

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Yeah,<00:22:10.778> that's,<00:22:11.115> that's<00:22:11.437> true.

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Here's<00:22:12.561> another<00:22:12.802> question<00:22:13.107> I<00:22:13.123> have<00:22:13.204> for<00:22:13.380> you.

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Just<00:22:13.991> given<00:22:14.248> like<00:22:14.489> Web3<00:22:15.195> was<00:22:15.372> like<00:22:15.677> all<00:22:15.838> the<00:22:15.934> rage<00:22:16.320> maybe<00:22:16.513> like<00:22:16.721> 2<00:22:16.882> years<00:22:17.155> ago,<00:22:18.167> and,<00:22:18.408> and<00:22:18.665> with<00:22:18.890> these<00:22:19.147> digital<00:22:19.452> media<00:22:19.789> businesses,<00:22:20.352> particularly<00:22:20.753> with<00:22:20.898> the<00:22:20.930> e-commerce<00:22:21.476> businesses,<00:22:22.761> what<00:22:22.922> was<00:22:23.082> your<00:22:23.885> experience<00:22:24.608> of<00:22:24.929> Web3<00:22:25.572> blockchain?

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Not<00:22:26.134> that<00:22:26.295> it's<00:22:26.439> completely<00:22:26.921> over<00:22:27.178> or<00:22:27.339> anything,<00:22:27.821> but<00:22:28.447> it's<00:22:28.768> certainly,<00:22:30.486> it's<00:22:30.631> not<00:22:30.855> the<00:22:30.952> trend<00:22:31.273> anymore.

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Yeah.

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I<00:22:33.039> mean,<00:22:33.601> we<00:22:33.778> didn't,<00:22:34.484> we<00:22:34.645> didn't<00:22:34.821> see<00:22:35.030> much<00:22:35.271> of<00:22:35.367> it.

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Oh,<00:22:36.234> interesting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It<00:22:37.840> kind<00:22:37.936> of,<00:22:38.258> it<00:22:38.595> kind<00:22:38.739> of<00:22:38.820> came<00:22:39.141> and<00:22:39.221> went<00:22:39.462> very<00:22:39.687> quickly.

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I<00:22:40.361> mean,<00:22:40.586> I<00:22:40.650> think<00:22:40.827> the<00:22:40.971> longer<00:22:41.308> term,<00:22:41.694> you<00:22:41.726> know,<00:22:41.886> space<00:22:42.416> for,<00:22:43.315> you<00:22:43.396> know,<00:22:43.877> ability<00:22:44.520> for,<00:22:45.146> you<00:22:45.194> know,<00:22:45.403> let's<00:22:45.628> kind<00:22:45.724> of<00:22:45.820> talk<00:22:46.270> what<00:22:46.543> is<00:22:46.687> more<00:22:46.912> realistic<00:22:47.570> to<00:22:47.715> happen<00:22:48.116> in<00:22:48.694> metaverse<00:22:49.337> and<00:22:49.417> those<00:22:49.610> type<00:22:49.818> of<00:22:49.899> things,<00:22:50.139> you<00:22:50.220> know,<00:22:50.605> in<00:22:50.701> the<00:22:50.846> future.

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I<00:22:51.263> mean,<00:22:51.424> there<00:22:51.601> is<00:22:51.825> definitely<00:22:52.147> a<00:22:52.371> use<00:22:52.548> case<00:22:53.014> for<00:22:53.270> that.

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But<00:22:54.954> how<00:22:55.290> it's<00:22:55.514> monetized,<00:22:56.235> how<00:22:56.460> it's<00:22:56.636> achieved.

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I<00:22:57.069> mean,<00:22:57.261> I<00:22:57.277> think<00:22:57.437> there's<00:22:57.517> just<00:22:57.742> a<00:22:57.902> lot<00:22:58.094> of<00:22:58.302> obstacles<00:22:58.863> to<00:22:58.959> overcome<00:23:00.482> with<00:23:00.642> all<00:23:00.722> this<00:23:00.818> from<00:23:00.978> a<00:23:01.042> regulation<00:23:01.587> perspective,<00:23:01.988> from<00:23:02.180> a<00:23:02.244> user<00:23:02.485> adoption<00:23:02.949> perspective.

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And<00:23:03.606> the<00:23:03.686> reality<00:23:04.311> is<00:23:04.472> that<00:23:04.888> for<00:23:05.048> businesses<00:23:05.529> in<00:23:05.609> that<00:23:05.769> kind<00:23:05.994> of<00:23:06.266> sub-$250<00:23:07.612> million<00:23:07.933> level<00:23:08.253> where<00:23:08.413> we<00:23:08.509> tend<00:23:08.798> to<00:23:08.910> operate,<00:23:10.336> it<00:23:10.496> wasn't<00:23:10.881> really<00:23:11.137> a<00:23:11.282> day-to-day<00:23:11.698> focus<00:23:12.259> for<00:23:12.419> them.

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I<00:23:12.595> mean,<00:23:12.980> the<00:23:13.124> past<00:23:13.381> couple<00:23:13.685> of<00:23:13.845> years,<00:23:15.063> just<00:23:15.287> talking<00:23:15.768> e-commerce<00:23:16.185> for<00:23:16.281> a<00:23:16.345> second,<00:23:17.066> with<00:23:17.226> the<00:23:17.306> supply<00:23:17.851> chain<00:23:18.172> issues<00:23:18.508> that<00:23:18.588> have<00:23:18.748> been<00:23:18.909> going<00:23:19.229> on<00:23:19.454> kind<00:23:19.614> of<00:23:19.790> following<00:23:20.110> the<00:23:20.255> pandemic,<00:23:21.152> operators<00:23:21.633> had<00:23:21.873> their<00:23:22.018> hands<00:23:22.434> full<00:23:23.156> just<00:23:23.412> trying<00:23:23.637> to<00:23:23.781> get<00:23:24.037> enough<00:23:24.358> inventory<00:23:24.743> and<00:23:24.823> enough<00:23:25.079> containers<00:23:25.656> and<00:23:25.785> everything<00:23:26.265> else,<00:23:26.522> let<00:23:26.746> alone<00:23:27.083> worry<00:23:27.404> about<00:23:27.708> the<00:23:27.788> future<00:23:28.205> of<00:23:28.365> what<00:23:28.510> could<00:23:28.670> happen<00:23:28.926> with<00:23:29.568> certain<00:23:30.048> types<00:23:30.385> of<00:23:30.690> software<00:23:31.411> and<00:23:31.715> feature<00:23:31.988> sets<00:23:32.276> and<00:23:32.373> other<00:23:32.469> things<00:23:33.399> there<00:23:33.495> too.

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So<00:23:34.056> yeah,<00:23:34.200> I<00:23:34.216> mean,<00:23:34.360> it<00:23:34.408> didn't<00:23:34.761> really—<00:23:35.258> it<00:23:35.563> kind<00:23:36.364> of<00:23:37.246> as<00:23:37.566> quickly<00:23:37.903> as<00:23:37.983> it<00:23:38.127> landed<00:23:38.448> on<00:23:38.544> our<00:23:38.624> desks,<00:23:39.089> it<00:23:39.281> disappeared<00:23:40.051> again.

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I<00:23:41.686> think<00:23:42.215> that<00:23:42.696> it<00:23:43.016> wasn't,<00:23:43.593> I<00:23:43.673> would<00:23:43.770> say,<00:23:43.930> necessarily<00:23:44.635> a<00:23:44.699> primary<00:23:45.196> focus,<00:23:45.597> but<00:23:45.741> again,<00:23:46.158> a<00:23:46.174> space<00:23:46.559> that<00:23:46.959> could<00:23:47.120> see<00:23:47.360> a<00:23:47.440> resurgence<00:23:48.162> in<00:23:48.338> terms<00:23:48.579> of<00:23:48.723> interest.

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But<00:23:49.205> yeah,<00:23:49.381> I<00:23:49.446> mean,<00:23:49.670> AI<00:23:50.104> definitely<00:23:50.537> has,<00:23:50.794> you<00:23:50.874> know,<00:23:51.051> the,<00:23:51.452> the<00:23:51.677> ear<00:23:51.917> of<00:23:51.998> everybody<00:23:52.495> at<00:23:52.575> this<00:23:52.672> particular<00:23:53.282> point<00:23:53.394> in<00:23:53.522> time.

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I'm<00:23:54.983> interested<00:23:55.304> in<00:23:55.384> the<00:23:56.187> FE<00:23:56.668> International<00:23:57.712> model.

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Do<00:23:59.477> companies<00:24:00.039> reach<00:24:00.344> out<00:24:00.520> to<00:24:00.745> you<00:24:01.066> and<00:24:01.162> say,<00:24:01.403> hey,<00:24:02.591> we'd<00:24:02.703> like<00:24:02.912> to<00:24:03.008> at<00:24:03.088> least<00:24:03.393> explore<00:24:03.907> the<00:24:04.035> possibility<00:24:05.336> of<00:24:05.641> getting<00:24:05.881> acquired<00:24:06.315> or<00:24:06.395> selling<00:24:06.700> the<00:24:06.780> business?

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Do<00:24:07.791> you<00:24:07.904> reach<00:24:08.209> out<00:24:08.321> to<00:24:08.449> them?

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And<00:24:09.348> then<00:24:09.525> I'm<00:24:09.749> also<00:24:10.006> interested<00:24:10.472> in<00:24:10.552> like<00:24:10.712> the<00:24:10.777> reverse<00:24:11.274> of<00:24:11.354> that.

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Like,<00:24:13.425> you<00:24:13.521> probably<00:24:13.762> just<00:24:13.987> have<00:24:14.163> relationships<00:24:14.886> with<00:24:15.046> all<00:24:15.191> the<00:24:15.287> buyers<00:24:15.768> and<00:24:15.913> that<00:24:16.009> type<00:24:16.266> of<00:24:16.314> thing<00:24:16.555> too.

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But<00:24:17.180> like,<00:24:17.640> yeah,<00:24:17.641> how<00:24:17.720> do<00:24:18.400> you—<00:24:18.880> you're<00:24:19.220> in<00:24:19.340> a<00:24:19.520> fascinating<00:24:20.100> business.

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It's<00:24:21.560> really<00:24:21.760> interesting.

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Yeah,<00:24:23.380> no,<00:24:23.660> appreciate<00:24:24.160> that.

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I<00:24:24.621> mean,<00:24:25.080> so<00:24:25.180> we<00:24:25.400> Lifetime,<00:24:26.060> I<00:24:26.220> think<00:24:26.221> we<00:24:26.380> valued<00:24:26.600> close<00:24:26.900> to<00:24:27.140> 23,000<00:24:28.180> companies<00:24:28.540> at<00:24:29.000> this,<00:24:29.001> at<00:24:29.100> this<00:24:29.220> stage.

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So<00:24:29.640> what<00:24:29.700> we<00:24:29.900> like<00:24:30.140> to<00:24:30.240> consider<00:24:30.620> ourselves<00:24:31.240> is,<00:24:31.880> is<00:24:32.280> a<00:24:32.580> kind<00:24:32.760> of<00:24:33.060> nexus<00:24:33.460> for<00:24:33.860> information.

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So<00:24:34.680> if<00:24:34.780> people<00:24:34.980> want<00:24:35.320> to<00:24:35.420> get<00:24:35.520> an<00:24:35.720> understanding<00:24:36.420> of<00:24:37.220> the<00:24:37.360> value<00:24:37.680> of<00:24:37.800> their<00:24:38.000> businesses,<00:24:38.380> we're<00:24:38.580> always<00:24:38.940> more<00:24:39.260> than<00:24:39.440> happy<00:24:39.620> to<00:24:39.820> provide,<00:24:40.660> you<00:24:40.980> know,<00:24:41.840> complimentary<00:24:42.280> valuations,<00:24:43.300> exit<00:24:43.640> planning,<00:24:44.140> consulting<00:24:44.540> to<00:24:44.780> get<00:24:44.940> to<00:24:45.040> the<00:24:45.180> point<00:24:45.260> because<00:24:45.420> I<00:24:45.720> mean,<00:24:45.820> the<00:24:45.920> reason<00:24:46.200> we<00:24:46.300> started<00:24:46.760> in<00:24:46.780> this,<00:24:46.800> you<00:24:46.820> know,<00:24:47.982> with<00:24:48.207> this<00:24:48.384> business<00:24:48.705> in<00:24:48.785> this<00:24:48.945> industry<00:24:49.250> because<00:24:49.507> there<00:24:49.555> was<00:24:49.668> just<00:24:49.892> such<00:24:50.213> a<00:24:51.016> lack<00:24:51.289> of<00:24:51.433> information.

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It<00:24:52.380> was<00:24:52.861> attorneys<00:24:53.616> masquerading<00:24:54.258> as<00:24:54.386> M&A<00:24:54.723> advisors<00:24:55.429> or<00:24:55.526> accountants<00:24:55.927> or<00:24:56.007> kind<00:24:56.152> of<00:24:56.184> CPAs<00:24:56.826> masquerading<00:24:57.452> as<00:24:57.692> M&A<00:24:58.013> advisors.

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And<00:24:58.511> it's<00:24:58.591> a<00:24:58.655> very,<00:24:58.960> very<00:24:59.137> specific<00:24:59.843> topic,<00:25:00.645> um,<00:25:00.966> that<00:25:01.015> needs<00:25:01.159> a<00:25:01.223> very<00:25:01.608> usually<00:25:01.945> curated<00:25:02.587> approach<00:25:02.989> on<00:25:03.053> a<00:25:03.294> business-by-business<00:25:04.032> basis.

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So<00:25:05.139> in<00:25:05.220> that<00:25:05.396> context,<00:25:05.733> I<00:25:05.781> mean,<00:25:06.199> we,<00:25:06.680> we<00:25:06.760> kind<00:25:06.921> of<00:25:07.065> became<00:25:07.402> very<00:25:07.643> well<00:25:07.820> known,<00:25:08.269> uh,<00:25:08.365> just<00:25:08.606> for<00:25:08.670> the<00:25:08.750> amount<00:25:09.232> of<00:25:09.328> information<00:25:09.890> we<00:25:10.034> were<00:25:10.211> putting<00:25:10.516> out<00:25:10.676> there.

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So<00:25:10.933> I<00:25:11.013> wouldn't<00:25:11.238> call<00:25:11.415> it<00:25:11.639> outreach<00:25:12.297> per<00:25:12.394> se,<00:25:12.699> but<00:25:12.859> we've<00:25:13.244> written<00:25:13.967> millions<00:25:14.384> and<00:25:14.529> millions<00:25:14.946> of<00:25:15.091> lines<00:25:15.492> on,<00:25:15.733> on<00:25:15.829> the<00:25:15.926> subjects<00:25:16.407> of<00:25:16.455> valuation<00:25:17.098> and<00:25:17.194> how<00:25:17.355> to<00:25:17.435> go<00:25:17.499> about<00:25:17.644> that.

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And<00:25:17.917> a<00:25:17.997> lot<00:25:18.157> of<00:25:18.238> people,<00:25:18.944> um,<00:25:19.346> you<00:25:19.442> know,<00:25:19.763> come<00:25:20.004> to<00:25:20.229> us,<00:25:20.486> you<00:25:20.887> know,<00:25:21.032> I<00:25:21.112> would<00:25:21.224> say<00:25:21.369> historically<00:25:22.718> over<00:25:23.039> 80%<00:25:23.552> of<00:25:23.681> everybody<00:25:24.018> we've<00:25:24.243> worked<00:25:24.500> with<00:25:24.660> on<00:25:24.805> an<00:25:24.901> M&A<00:25:25.206> perspective,<00:25:25.929> when,<00:25:26.266> you<00:25:26.346> know,<00:25:26.571> our,<00:25:26.924> our<00:25:27.053> kind<00:25:27.165> of<00:25:27.229> acceptance<00:25:27.791> rate<00:25:27.952> of<00:25:28.032> kind<00:25:28.177> of<00:25:28.289> somebody<00:25:28.675> coming<00:25:28.915> to<00:25:29.060> us,<00:25:29.220> getting<00:25:29.477> valuation,<00:25:30.023> and<00:25:30.104> then<00:25:30.264> going<00:25:30.441> to<00:25:30.601> market<00:25:31.003> is<00:25:31.163> under<00:25:31.468> 1.8%<00:25:32.030> because<00:25:32.528> we're<00:25:32.689> very<00:25:32.913> select<00:25:33.267> about<00:25:33.475> the<00:25:33.572> deals<00:25:33.829> that<00:25:33.957> we<00:25:34.118> ultimately<00:25:34.632> take<00:25:34.776> out.

00:25:35.242 --> 00:25:45.153
Um,<00:25:35.338> so<00:25:35.804> I<00:25:35.836> think<00:25:36.221> instinctively<00:25:36.944> we<00:25:37.088> then<00:25:37.361> attract<00:25:37.747> very,<00:25:37.987> very<00:25:38.212> high-quality,<00:25:38.951> good<00:25:39.352> and<00:25:39.416> sophisticated<00:25:40.153> buyers,<00:25:40.554> and<00:25:40.634> then<00:25:40.794> you<00:25:40.954> actually<00:25:41.179> end<00:25:41.355> up<00:25:41.451> in<00:25:41.531> a<00:25:41.659> great<00:25:41.836> position,<00:25:42.156> whereas<00:25:42.637> fantastic<00:25:43.182> business<00:25:43.518> meets<00:25:43.839> very<00:25:43.999> sophisticated<00:25:44.720> buyer<00:25:44.960> base.

00:25:45.201 --> 00:25:50.200
And,<00:25:45.521> and<00:25:45.601> that's<00:25:45.906> why<00:25:46.082> our<00:25:46.162> success<00:25:46.707> rate,<00:25:46.963> you<00:25:47.060> know,<00:25:47.188> hovers<00:25:47.604> around<00:25:47.925> 94<00:25:48.726> to<00:25:49.287> 94.1%.

00:25:50.633 --> 00:25:54.159
But<00:25:51.290> most<00:25:51.627> of<00:25:51.707> that<00:25:51.931> is<00:25:52.075> inbound<00:25:52.893> in<00:25:52.973> terms<00:25:53.133> of<00:25:53.213> people<00:25:53.453> that<00:25:53.534> come<00:25:53.774> to<00:25:53.998> us.

00:25:54.415 --> 00:25:58.918
They<00:25:54.639> want<00:25:54.832> to<00:25:54.976> understand,<00:25:55.777> you<00:25:55.841> know,<00:25:56.178> where<00:25:56.338> they<00:25:56.562> are,<00:25:56.739> their<00:25:56.851> valuation,<00:25:57.524> how<00:25:57.780> they<00:25:57.860> can<00:25:58.020> improve<00:25:58.405> that<00:25:58.501> over<00:25:58.677> time.

00:25:58.966 --> 00:26:01.995
And<00:25:59.142> we<00:25:59.222> have<00:25:59.767> all<00:25:59.847> the<00:25:59.879> time<00:26:00.168> in<00:26:00.200> the<00:26:00.344> world<00:26:00.681> to<00:26:00.809> have<00:26:00.969> those<00:26:01.097> type<00:26:01.322> of<00:26:01.450> conversations.

00:26:02.107 --> 00:26:05.800
So,<00:26:02.187> I<00:26:02.251> mean,<00:26:02.892> um,<00:26:02.972> you<00:26:03.004> know,<00:26:03.068> we<00:26:03.148> have<00:26:03.485> a<00:26:03.629> very—<00:26:03.869> I<00:26:04.014> mean,<00:26:04.110> we're<00:26:04.254> over<00:26:04.414> 150<00:26:05.200> people<00:26:05.500> now.

00:26:05.800 --> 00:26:10.960
We<00:26:05.801> have<00:26:05.802> a<00:26:05.920> very<00:26:06.040> large<00:26:06.380> team<00:26:06.620> and<00:26:06.860> we<00:26:06.861> kind<00:26:06.980> of<00:26:07.320> put<00:26:07.620> ourselves<00:26:08.000> out<00:26:08.240> there<00:26:08.520> to,<00:26:09.200> to<00:26:09.500> provide<00:26:09.820> that<00:26:10.000> type<00:26:10.180> of<00:26:10.340> information.

00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:18.130
Obviously<00:26:11.080> we<00:26:11.260> do<00:26:11.420> supplement<00:26:11.780> that<00:26:12.060> with,<00:26:12.260> you<00:26:12.320> know,<00:26:12.580> outreach,<00:26:13.080> you<00:26:13.100> know,<00:26:13.319> when<00:26:13.340> we,<00:26:14.180> we<00:26:14.181> have<00:26:14.320> seen<00:26:14.660> certain<00:26:15.060> pockets<00:26:15.500> of,<00:26:15.900> you<00:26:16.140> know,<00:26:16.660> of<00:26:16.720> businesses<00:26:17.000> that<00:26:17.220> are<00:26:17.440> high<00:26:17.580> demand.

00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:24.100
Only<00:26:18.500> one—<00:26:19.280> obviously<00:26:19.300> we're<00:26:20.000> representing<00:26:20.480> on<00:26:20.740> the<00:26:20.840> sell<00:26:21.020> side—<00:26:21.660> only<00:26:21.661> one<00:26:22.100> party<00:26:22.400> can<00:26:22.620> buy<00:26:22.880> any<00:26:23.100> particular<00:26:23.460> business.

00:26:24.100 --> 00:26:29.800
So,<00:26:24.240> you<00:26:24.560> know,<00:26:24.700> you<00:26:24.760> often<00:26:24.960> get<00:26:25.180> a<00:26:25.260> lot<00:26:25.500> of,<00:26:25.780> uh,<00:26:26.180> you<00:26:26.181> know,<00:26:26.860> unhappy<00:26:27.320> buyers<00:26:27.880> that,<00:26:28.060> you<00:26:28.140> know,<00:26:28.380> didn't<00:26:28.520> end<00:26:28.700> up<00:26:28.860> with<00:26:28.960> a<00:26:29.100> specific<00:26:29.400> opportunity.

00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.692
So<00:26:30.240> then<00:26:30.380> obviously,<00:26:30.760> you<00:26:30.800> know,<00:26:30.960> we<00:26:31.040> will<00:26:31.200> always<00:26:31.420> go<00:26:31.600> out<00:26:31.780> and<00:26:32.020> find<00:26:32.300> other<00:26:32.560> businesses<00:26:33.096> that<00:26:33.545> may<00:26:33.673> make<00:26:33.897> sense<00:26:34.154> to<00:26:34.298> then<00:26:34.458> have<00:26:34.618> some<00:26:34.795> of<00:26:34.875> those<00:26:35.035> conversations.

00:26:35.821 --> 00:26:46.463
But<00:26:35.901> yeah,<00:26:36.077> I<00:26:36.093> mean,<00:26:36.237> I<00:26:36.317> think<00:26:36.558> that<00:26:37.279> we<00:26:37.439> consider<00:26:37.856> ourselves<00:26:38.545> a<00:26:38.641> kind<00:26:38.818> of,<00:26:39.186> you<00:26:39.218> know,<00:26:39.347> very<00:26:39.587> kind<00:26:39.699> of<00:26:39.779> safe,<00:26:40.388> transparent<00:26:40.965> environment<00:26:41.446> that<00:26:41.671> founders<00:26:41.991> can<00:26:42.151> come<00:26:42.408> to<00:26:42.728> and<00:26:42.873> have<00:26:43.129> those<00:26:43.289> type<00:26:43.466> of<00:26:43.530> conversations<00:26:44.251> to<00:26:44.411> really<00:26:44.652> get<00:26:44.812> an<00:26:44.908> understanding<00:26:45.870> of<00:26:46.014> where<00:26:46.174> they<00:26:46.399> are.

00:26:46.511 --> 00:26:49.652
So<00:26:46.719> yeah,<00:26:47.056> it's<00:26:47.200> predominantly<00:26:47.777> inbound<00:26:48.178> in<00:26:48.258> terms<00:26:48.578> of<00:26:48.819> what<00:26:49.204> we<00:26:49.444> do.

00:26:50.662 --> 00:27:01.849
Do<00:26:50.710> you<00:26:50.886> think<00:26:51.207> about<00:26:51.544> the<00:26:52.105> public<00:26:52.425> market<00:26:52.746> on<00:26:52.906> a<00:26:52.986> day-to-day<00:26:53.387> basis,<00:26:53.868> or<00:26:53.916> are<00:26:54.012> you<00:26:54.108> mostly<00:26:54.493> focused<00:26:54.974> on<00:26:55.214> kind<00:26:55.390> of<00:26:55.454> that<00:26:55.935> earlier<00:26:58.099> range<00:26:58.836> before,<00:26:59.878> you<00:26:59.974> know,<00:27:00.199> these<00:27:00.423> aren't<00:27:00.519> companies<00:27:00.904> that<00:27:00.984> are<00:27:01.064> about<00:27:01.304> to<00:27:01.385> go<00:27:01.545> public?

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Yes,<00:27:03.725> we<00:27:03.950> do,<00:27:04.126> in<00:27:04.223> the<00:27:04.367> context<00:27:05.072> of<00:27:05.473> understanding,<00:27:06.435> um,<00:27:06.692> you<00:27:06.724> know,<00:27:06.933> buyer<00:27:07.189> sources<00:27:07.670> of<00:27:07.814> funding<00:27:08.376> and<00:27:08.520> the<00:27:08.600> associations<00:27:09.418> with<00:27:09.643> that.

00:27:09.883 --> 00:27:14.886
I<00:27:09.899> mean,<00:27:10.059> buyers—<00:27:10.364> I<00:27:10.621> mean,<00:27:10.925> obviously<00:27:11.118> they'll<00:27:11.326> have,<00:27:11.727> you<00:27:11.759> know,<00:27:12.080> a<00:27:12.128> lot<00:27:12.240> of<00:27:12.304> buyers<00:27:12.625> come<00:27:12.802> to<00:27:12.866> the<00:27:12.930> table<00:27:13.267> with,<00:27:13.491> you<00:27:13.523> know,<00:27:13.651> 100%<00:27:14.068> cash<00:27:14.245> consideration.

00:27:14.934 --> 00:27:17.789
Sometimes<00:27:15.431> it's<00:27:15.656> LP,<00:27:16.538> um,<00:27:16.698> you<00:27:16.730> know,<00:27:16.939> money<00:27:17.195> that<00:27:17.259> they're<00:27:17.356> investing.

00:27:17.837 --> 00:27:22.262
Sometimes<00:27:18.334> it's,<00:27:18.783> uh,<00:27:18.943> you<00:27:18.991> know,<00:27:19.200> it's<00:27:19.296> associated<00:27:20.001> with,<00:27:20.306> uh,<00:27:20.482> you<00:27:20.515> know,<00:27:20.723> debt<00:27:20.964> raises<00:27:21.284> and<00:27:21.429> those<00:27:21.605> type<00:27:21.685> of<00:27:21.845> things<00:27:22.022> as<00:27:22.150> well.

00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:34.142
So<00:27:22.471> it<00:27:22.551> is<00:27:22.647> important<00:27:23.112> to<00:27:23.208> keep<00:27:23.449> an<00:27:23.593> eye<00:27:24.010> on<00:27:24.090> the<00:27:24.235> public<00:27:24.555> markets<00:27:25.117> and<00:27:25.293> just<00:27:25.453> have<00:27:25.630> a,<00:27:25.758> you<00:27:25.999> know,<00:27:26.255> a<00:27:26.416> good<00:27:26.576> sense<00:27:26.897> and<00:27:26.993> understanding<00:27:27.698> of<00:27:27.843> how<00:27:28.019> those<00:27:28.179> dynamics<00:27:28.580> change<00:27:28.821> because<00:27:29.462> when<00:27:29.622> people<00:27:30.023> buy<00:27:30.408> businesses,<00:27:30.841> they're<00:27:30.985> not<00:27:31.209> buying<00:27:31.466> businesses<00:27:31.866> based<00:27:32.123> off<00:27:32.331> what<00:27:32.491> you<00:27:32.668> did<00:27:33.133> in<00:27:33.213> the<00:27:33.309> last<00:27:33.549> 12<00:27:33.870> months.

00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:37.813
They're<00:27:34.351> buying<00:27:34.591> businesses<00:27:35.008> of<00:27:35.393> where<00:27:35.617> that<00:27:35.793> business<00:27:36.050> is<00:27:36.130> going<00:27:36.226> to<00:27:36.354> go<00:27:36.611> in<00:27:36.755> the<00:27:36.819> next<00:27:37.075> 12<00:27:37.540> years.

00:27:37.893 --> 00:27:39.544
So<00:27:38.037> that's<00:27:38.502> the<00:27:38.598> bit<00:27:38.823> they<00:27:38.999> care<00:27:39.255> about.

00:27:39.624 --> 00:27:44.785
And<00:27:40.201> part<00:27:40.441> of<00:27:40.522> what<00:27:40.746> we<00:27:40.922> do<00:27:41.066> when<00:27:41.163> we<00:27:41.243> represent<00:27:41.659> sellers<00:27:42.044> is<00:27:42.188> help<00:27:42.509> buyers<00:27:42.749> to<00:27:42.910> really<00:27:43.150> understand<00:27:43.567> the<00:27:43.647> trajectory<00:27:44.192> for<00:27:44.272> that<00:27:44.448> business.

00:27:44.849 --> 00:27:48.119
And<00:27:44.929> obviously<00:27:45.490> the<00:27:45.570> macro<00:27:46.067> side<00:27:46.436> of<00:27:46.516> it<00:27:46.612> comes<00:27:46.853> into<00:27:47.654> play<00:27:47.814> there.

00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.299
Where<00:27:48.776> is<00:27:48.920> Shopify<00:27:49.417> trading<00:27:49.898> today?

00:27:50.603 --> 00:27:53.456
Or<00:27:50.683> where<00:27:50.940> is<00:27:52.318> Salesforce<00:27:53.184> trading?

00:27:53.504 --> 00:27:53.793
Or<00:27:53.568> what?

00:27:53.969 --> 00:27:57.479
That<00:27:54.209> has<00:27:54.787> relatively<00:27:55.428> little<00:27:55.732> to<00:27:55.828> do,<00:27:56.053> I<00:27:56.133> would<00:27:56.229> say,<00:27:56.550> with,<00:27:56.774> you<00:27:56.806> know,<00:27:57.014> what's<00:27:57.255> going<00:27:57.431> on.

00:27:57.752 --> 00:28:04.083
Going<00:27:58.072> on<00:27:58.553> in<00:27:58.633> terms<00:27:58.954> of,<00:27:59.034> you<00:27:59.098> know,<00:27:59.258> the<00:27:59.419> kind<00:27:59.515> of<00:27:59.675> lower<00:27:59.915> to<00:28:00.621> mid-market<00:28:01.134> section,<00:28:01.518> but<00:28:01.775> it's<00:28:02.143> all<00:28:02.304> part<00:28:02.496> of<00:28:02.560> the<00:28:02.640> same<00:28:02.945> ecosystem<00:28:03.522> at<00:28:03.602> the<00:28:03.682> end<00:28:03.778> of<00:28:03.842> the<00:28:03.987> day.

00:28:04.179 --> 00:28:07.561
So<00:28:04.339> it<00:28:04.467> is<00:28:04.564> important<00:28:05.044> to<00:28:05.189> have,<00:28:05.349> you<00:28:05.381> know,<00:28:05.766> a<00:28:05.846> very<00:28:06.006> kind<00:28:06.150> of<00:28:06.311> close<00:28:06.711> eye<00:28:06.808> on<00:28:06.952> the<00:28:06.984> market.

00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:29.406
And<00:28:07.930> when<00:28:08.026> you're<00:28:08.170> dealing<00:28:08.555> with,<00:28:08.875> you<00:28:08.907> know,<00:28:09.612> one<00:28:09.837> thing<00:28:10.013> I<00:28:10.029> would<00:28:10.173> say<00:28:10.414> that<00:28:10.638> we've<00:28:10.815> noticed<00:28:11.199> over<00:28:11.311> the<00:28:11.440> past<00:28:11.856> 3<00:28:12.017> to<00:28:12.161> 4<00:28:12.482> years<00:28:12.882> is,<00:28:13.764> to<00:28:13.924> your<00:28:14.020> point<00:28:14.405> earlier,<00:28:15.527> as<00:28:16.168> opportunities<00:28:16.809> have<00:28:16.969> become<00:28:17.162> extremely<00:28:17.771> expensive<00:28:18.332> on<00:28:18.412> the<00:28:18.508> public<00:28:18.845> side,<00:28:19.710> private<00:28:20.111> equity<00:28:20.496> and<00:28:20.544> strategic<00:28:21.137> firms<00:28:21.473> that,<00:28:21.938> let's<00:28:22.098> say,<00:28:22.515> 5<00:28:22.836> years<00:28:23.076> ago<00:28:23.381> wouldn't<00:28:23.637> touch<00:28:24.038> anything<00:28:24.503> below<00:28:24.839> $100<00:28:25.320> million,<00:28:26.506> now<00:28:26.842> are<00:28:27.083> buying<00:28:27.387> businesses<00:28:27.868> at<00:28:28.205> $10<00:28:28.525> million<00:28:29.086> and<00:28:29.166> up.

00:28:29.567 --> 00:28:36.248
So,<00:28:30.031> you<00:28:30.127> know,<00:28:30.752> these<00:28:30.945> are<00:28:31.025> the<00:28:31.105> types<00:28:31.425> of<00:28:31.570> buyers<00:28:31.890> that<00:28:32.034> you're<00:28:32.194> now<00:28:32.451> dealing<00:28:32.771> with,<00:28:33.012> you<00:28:33.076> know,<00:28:33.396> at<00:28:33.556> the<00:28:33.717> lower<00:28:33.893> to<00:28:34.358> mid-market<00:28:34.918> level,<00:28:35.095> which<00:28:35.271> is<00:28:35.399> obviously<00:28:35.672> fantastic.

00:28:36.297 --> 00:28:44.725
But,<00:28:36.697> you<00:28:36.777> know,<00:28:37.098> important<00:28:37.562> to<00:28:37.659> speak<00:28:37.963> their<00:28:38.075> language<00:28:38.476> and<00:28:38.604> understand<00:28:39.085> the<00:28:39.181> parameters<00:28:39.742> and<00:28:40.206> the<00:28:40.302> context<00:28:40.719> of<00:28:40.783> things<00:28:41.104> that<00:28:41.248> goes<00:28:41.440> into<00:28:41.745> their<00:28:42.065> risk<00:28:42.289> committee,<00:28:42.610> their<00:28:42.946> decision-making,<00:28:43.892> and<00:28:43.988> those<00:28:44.212> elements<00:28:44.485> as<00:28:44.629> well.

00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:54.758
Because<00:28:45.029> they're<00:28:45.190> buying<00:28:45.510> these<00:28:45.751> businesses<00:28:46.215> either<00:28:46.952> to<00:28:47.113> bolt<00:28:47.433> onto<00:28:47.753> a<00:28:47.818> larger<00:28:48.170> opportunity,<00:28:48.699> you<00:28:48.731> know,<00:28:48.955> business<00:28:49.260> that<00:28:49.340> may<00:28:49.596> be<00:28:49.676> publicly<00:28:50.077> traded,<00:28:50.942> or<00:28:51.054> their<00:28:51.279> view<00:28:51.439> is<00:28:51.583> that,<00:28:51.743> hey,<00:28:51.856> we're<00:28:51.984> going<00:28:52.080> to<00:28:52.160> buy<00:28:52.320> this<00:28:52.561> business<00:28:52.945> at<00:28:53.282> $50<00:28:53.522> million<00:28:53.924> or<00:28:54.164> $100<00:28:54.565> million.

00:28:55.432 --> 00:28:59.346
Our<00:28:55.592> exit<00:28:55.929> path<00:28:56.250> is<00:28:56.491> a<00:28:56.635> billion,<00:28:57.036> and<00:28:57.293> by<00:28:57.517> doing<00:28:57.774> that,<00:28:58.015> we're<00:28:58.095> going<00:28:58.207> to<00:28:58.319> be<00:28:58.416> going<00:28:58.640> to<00:28:58.721> the<00:28:58.817> public<00:28:59.122> market.

00:28:59.394 --> 00:29:03.566
So<00:28:59.844> they<00:28:59.940> need<00:29:00.197> to<00:29:00.341> know<00:29:00.582> that<00:29:00.806> it's<00:29:00.983> a<00:29:01.063> business<00:29:01.448> that<00:29:01.544> can<00:29:01.849> get<00:29:02.042> to<00:29:02.186> that<00:29:02.571> particular<00:29:03.068> point<00:29:03.309> in<00:29:03.389> time.

00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:12.502
And<00:29:03.710> there<00:29:03.871> are<00:29:03.935> usually<00:29:04.191> very<00:29:04.352> specific<00:29:04.897> parameters<00:29:05.475> around<00:29:06.101> what<00:29:06.197> type<00:29:06.373> of<00:29:06.437> business<00:29:07.063> may<00:29:07.384> be<00:29:07.721> better<00:29:08.106> off<00:29:08.266> private<00:29:09.245> into<00:29:09.550> perpetuity<00:29:10.368> and<00:29:10.513> some<00:29:10.689> businesses<00:29:11.090> that<00:29:11.154> may<00:29:11.315> be<00:29:11.475> better<00:29:11.668> off<00:29:11.812> going<00:29:11.989> the<00:29:12.117> public<00:29:12.454> route.

00:29:12.550 --> 00:29:17.427
So<00:29:12.935> very<00:29:13.096> important<00:29:13.481> to<00:29:13.577> have<00:29:13.801> that<00:29:13.962> context,<00:29:14.299> but<00:29:14.684> it<00:29:14.780> doesn't<00:29:15.085> necessarily<00:29:15.662> impact<00:29:16.048> the<00:29:16.144> day-to-day<00:29:16.433> multiples<00:29:16.866> that<00:29:17.106> we<00:29:17.347> see.

00:29:18.310 --> 00:29:18.839
Interesting.

00:29:19.578 --> 00:29:22.278
Ismail,<00:29:20.317> man,<00:29:20.639> what<00:29:20.735> a<00:29:20.799> fast—<00:29:21.105> I<00:29:21.201> could<00:29:21.346> talk<00:29:21.538> to<00:29:21.587> you<00:29:21.747> forever,<00:29:22.069> man.

00:29:22.647 --> 00:29:24.897
This<00:29:22.872> is<00:29:23.547> super<00:29:24.013> interesting.

00:29:25.764 --> 00:29:27.516
I<00:29:26.407> appreciate<00:29:27.130> you<00:29:27.211> coming<00:29:27.468> on.

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Let's<00:29:28.030> have<00:29:28.207> you<00:29:28.416> on<00:29:28.576> again<00:29:29.300> because<00:29:30.183> I'd<00:29:30.280> love<00:29:30.521> to<00:29:30.826> actually—<00:29:31.083> let<00:29:31.308> me<00:29:31.485> end<00:29:31.565> with<00:29:31.726> one<00:29:31.887> final<00:29:32.192> question.

00:29:33.011 --> 00:29:46.165
What<00:29:33.236> advice<00:29:33.799> would<00:29:33.960> you<00:29:34.120> have<00:29:34.699> for<00:29:34.940> CEOs<00:29:35.582> and<00:29:35.807> leaders<00:29:36.370> right<00:29:36.627> now<00:29:37.752> building<00:29:38.089> a<00:29:38.234> company<00:29:38.636> that<00:29:38.860> they<00:29:38.957> would<00:29:39.198> like<00:29:39.519> to<00:29:39.680> get<00:29:39.937> acquired<00:29:40.467> or<00:29:40.548> would<00:29:40.724> like<00:29:40.949> to<00:29:41.046> sell<00:29:41.303> or<00:29:41.448> like<00:29:41.689> to<00:29:41.753> see<00:29:41.930> some<00:29:42.090> sort<00:29:42.347> of<00:29:42.412> successful<00:29:43.119> exit<00:29:44.501> like<00:29:45.049> a<00:29:45.130> couple<00:29:45.373> of<00:29:45.454> years<00:29:45.631> down<00:29:45.874> the<00:29:45.955> road?

00:29:47.330 --> 00:30:02.045
Yeah,<00:29:47.572> I<00:29:47.588> mean,<00:29:47.815> I<00:29:47.896> would<00:29:47.993> say<00:29:48.219> that<00:29:48.365> for<00:29:48.527> anybody,<00:29:48.931> it's<00:29:49.109> very<00:29:49.351> important<00:29:49.853> to<00:29:50.629> ultimately—<00:29:53.621> my<00:29:53.815> advice<00:29:54.026> to<00:29:54.058> people<00:29:54.588> is<00:29:56.934> don't<00:29:58.156> make<00:29:58.381> short-term<00:29:59.023> decisions<00:29:59.586> based<00:29:59.972> on<00:30:00.068> things<00:30:00.389> that<00:30:00.871> may<00:30:01.113> or<00:30:01.145> may<00:30:01.273> not<00:30:01.514> materialize.

00:30:02.221 --> 00:30:14.839
Ultimately,<00:30:05.292> if<00:30:05.437> you<00:30:05.534> are<00:30:05.598> short-term<00:30:06.643> in<00:30:06.820> nature,<00:30:07.303> in<00:30:07.383> the<00:30:07.464> sense<00:30:07.785> of<00:30:07.882> I'm<00:30:08.026> building<00:30:08.412> a<00:30:08.428> business<00:30:08.814> and<00:30:08.895> I<00:30:08.975> want<00:30:09.120> to<00:30:09.233> exit<00:30:09.538> it<00:30:09.635> in<00:30:09.795> 1<00:30:10.021> year<00:30:10.455> or<00:30:10.535> 2<00:30:10.825> years<00:30:11.052> 3<00:30:11.357> years,<00:30:11.774> you<00:30:11.854> know,<00:30:12.255> don't<00:30:12.512> take<00:30:12.817> necessarily<00:30:13.298> the<00:30:13.379> view<00:30:13.603> of,<00:30:13.700> okay,<00:30:13.940> how<00:30:14.101> do<00:30:14.326> I<00:30:14.422> optimize?

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How<00:30:15.064> do<00:30:15.208> I<00:30:15.289> trim?

00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:17.214
How<00:30:15.786> do<00:30:15.931> I<00:30:16.011> do<00:30:16.187> this<00:30:16.412> and<00:30:16.492> how<00:30:16.589> do<00:30:16.749> I<00:30:16.829> do<00:30:16.990> that?

00:30:17.263 --> 00:30:20.938
Because<00:30:17.487> as<00:30:17.632> you<00:30:17.792> face<00:30:18.033> off<00:30:18.193> against<00:30:18.514> very<00:30:18.691> sophisticated<00:30:19.461> buyers,<00:30:19.814> they'll<00:30:19.975> see<00:30:20.360> that<00:30:20.537> very<00:30:20.745> quickly.

00:30:21.066 --> 00:30:31.161
They<00:30:21.243> want<00:30:21.403> to<00:30:21.548> see<00:30:21.724> businesses<00:30:22.206> that<00:30:22.430> are,<00:30:22.912> you<00:30:22.944> know,<00:30:23.329> that<00:30:23.490> are<00:30:23.570> seeing<00:30:24.116> growth<00:30:24.469> and<00:30:24.597> they're<00:30:24.806> seeing<00:30:25.095> the,<00:30:25.335> you<00:30:25.367> know,<00:30:25.737> the<00:30:25.977> building<00:30:26.378> blocks<00:30:26.635> of<00:30:26.716> that<00:30:26.940> growth<00:30:27.261> being<00:30:27.566> put<00:30:27.646> in<00:30:27.823> place<00:30:28.176> so<00:30:28.224> that<00:30:28.288> they<00:30:28.385> can<00:30:28.545> continue<00:30:29.187> to<00:30:29.348> grow,<00:30:30.054> uh,<00:30:30.230> you<00:30:30.310> know,<00:30:30.615> longer<00:30:30.872> term.

00:30:31.209 --> 00:30:45.932
So<00:30:31.899> I<00:30:31.980> would<00:30:32.076> say<00:30:32.317> that<00:30:32.477> people,<00:30:32.862> you<00:30:32.943> know,<00:30:33.039> should<00:30:33.264> always<00:30:33.456> take<00:30:33.681> a<00:30:33.745> long-term<00:30:34.243> view<00:30:34.419> in<00:30:34.563> the<00:30:34.644> type<00:30:35.061> of<00:30:35.189> the<00:30:35.222> nature<00:30:35.623> of<00:30:35.751> how<00:30:36.152> they're<00:30:36.329> building<00:30:36.634> their<00:30:36.730> company<00:30:37.453> don't<00:30:37.758> take<00:30:38.015> shortcuts,<00:30:38.978> very<00:30:39.155> much<00:30:39.444> take<00:30:39.637> the<00:30:39.765> route<00:30:40.086> of,<00:30:40.183> well,<00:30:41.210> run<00:30:41.451> it<00:30:41.548> and<00:30:41.692> operate<00:30:42.110> it<00:30:42.174> as<00:30:42.270> if<00:30:42.415> I<00:30:42.447> was<00:30:42.591> going<00:30:42.768> to<00:30:43.218> actually<00:30:43.555> be<00:30:43.715> in<00:30:43.780> charge<00:30:44.133> of<00:30:44.261> this<00:30:44.502> business<00:30:44.824> for<00:30:44.904> the<00:30:44.936> next<00:30:45.241> 10<00:30:45.562> years.

00:30:46.205 --> 00:31:05.760
And<00:30:46.285> then<00:30:46.445> the<00:30:46.590> irony<00:30:47.810> is<00:30:47.971> that<00:30:48.292> usually<00:30:48.597> ends<00:30:48.710> up<00:30:48.838> being<00:30:49.015> a<00:30:49.031> much<00:30:49.400> more<00:30:49.497> valuable<00:30:49.898> business<00:30:50.203> than<00:30:50.300> a<00:30:50.380> business<00:30:50.701> that<00:30:50.813> somebody<00:30:51.263> wants<00:30:51.504> to<00:30:52.451> build,<00:30:52.949> grow<00:30:53.254> for<00:30:53.351> a<00:30:53.367> short<00:30:53.672> phase<00:30:53.913> of<00:30:53.993> time<00:30:54.330> and<00:30:54.395> then<00:30:54.555> immediately<00:30:55.037> exit<00:30:55.438> because<00:30:56.145> that<00:30:56.322> becomes<00:30:56.643> very<00:30:56.900> apparent<00:30:57.285> and<00:30:57.398> very<00:30:57.606> obvious<00:30:57.863> in<00:30:57.911> the<00:30:58.088> way<00:30:58.233> you<00:30:58.409> build<00:30:58.586> the<00:30:58.714> team,<00:30:59.373> the<00:30:59.517> way<00:30:59.774> you<00:31:00.979> reward<00:31:01.460> the<00:31:01.541> team,<00:31:01.942> the<00:31:02.087> way<00:31:02.263> the<00:31:02.344> software<00:31:02.986> or<00:31:03.131> kind<00:31:03.227> of<00:31:03.388> business<00:31:03.725> or<00:31:03.869> brand<00:31:04.190> has<00:31:05.260> built.

00:31:05.760 --> 00:31:08.720
And<00:31:05.780> ultimately<00:31:06.120> a<00:31:06.260> lot<00:31:06.380> of<00:31:06.460> that<00:31:06.660> can<00:31:06.740> come<00:31:06.940> unstuck<00:31:07.700> later<00:31:08.020> down<00:31:08.240> the<00:31:08.440> line.

00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:20.240
So<00:31:08.721> I<00:31:08.820> would<00:31:09.000> say,<00:31:09.220> you<00:31:09.221> know,<00:31:09.820> the<00:31:09.860> kind<00:31:10.000> of<00:31:10.140> more,<00:31:10.420> the<00:31:10.920> slow,<00:31:11.420> you<00:31:11.421> know,<00:31:11.860> the<00:31:12.040> kind<00:31:12.280> of<00:31:12.360> more<00:31:12.620> purposeful<00:31:13.620> and<00:31:13.880> kind<00:31:14.200> of<00:31:14.201> longer-term<00:31:14.600> growth<00:31:14.880> is<00:31:15.040> always<00:31:15.300> going<00:31:15.400> to<00:31:15.460> have<00:31:15.620> a<00:31:15.760> much<00:31:15.920> better,<00:31:16.280> you<00:31:16.460> know,<00:31:16.600> yield<00:31:16.920> in<00:31:17.080> terms<00:31:17.420> of,<00:31:17.880> you<00:31:18.160> know,<00:31:18.240> the<00:31:18.380> ability<00:31:18.720> to<00:31:19.320> exit<00:31:19.640> over<00:31:20.020> time.

00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:29.960
And<00:31:20.400> then<00:31:20.559> obviously<00:31:20.880> other<00:31:21.120> things,<00:31:21.760> you<00:31:21.820> know,<00:31:22.140> important<00:31:22.560> to<00:31:22.740> build<00:31:22.940> a<00:31:23.060> really<00:31:23.240> good<00:31:23.440> team<00:31:23.720> around<00:31:23.940> you,<00:31:24.120> important<00:31:24.320> to<00:31:24.440> have,<00:31:24.640> you<00:31:24.800> know,<00:31:25.140> really<00:31:25.420> good<00:31:25.620> sense<00:31:25.840> of<00:31:25.960> your<00:31:26.160> metrics<00:31:26.720> and<00:31:27.300> kind<00:31:27.500> of,<00:31:27.780> you<00:31:27.781> know,<00:31:27.782> what's<00:31:27.980> working<00:31:28.300> and<00:31:28.680> what's<00:31:28.940> not<00:31:29.180> working<00:31:29.440> over<00:31:29.780> time.

00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:37.504
And<00:31:30.320> I<00:31:30.420> would<00:31:30.560> say<00:31:30.760> that,<00:31:30.920> you<00:31:30.980> know,<00:31:31.080> honestly,<00:31:31.440> whether<00:31:31.620> it's<00:31:31.840> us<00:31:32.060> or<00:31:32.200> anybody<00:31:32.520> else,<00:31:32.740> just<00:31:32.920> having<00:31:33.240> conversations<00:31:33.920> with<00:31:34.140> advisors<00:31:34.460> that<00:31:34.480> are<00:31:34.500> willing<00:31:34.520> to<00:31:34.540> give<00:31:34.560> you<00:31:34.580> that<00:31:34.600> time<00:31:34.620> to<00:31:34.640> kind<00:31:36.797> walk<00:31:36.958> you<00:31:37.054> through<00:31:37.215> the<00:31:37.295> journey.

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It's<00:31:37.841> always<00:31:38.163> worth<00:31:38.355> investing.

00:31:38.821 --> 00:31:47.062
I<00:31:38.886> think<00:31:39.046> for<00:31:39.287> us,<00:31:39.849> most<00:31:40.106> people<00:31:40.364> that<00:31:40.572> exit<00:31:40.974> will<00:31:41.070> probably<00:31:41.456> come<00:31:41.633> to<00:31:41.777> us<00:31:41.890> about,<00:31:42.436> you<00:31:42.468> know,<00:31:42.757> 12<00:31:43.223> to<00:31:43.801> anywhere<00:31:44.026> between<00:31:44.203> 12<00:31:44.588> to<00:31:44.749> 18<00:31:45.086> months<00:31:45.327> before<00:31:45.745> they<00:31:45.954> want<00:31:46.050> to<00:31:46.115> start<00:31:46.532> that<00:31:46.693> journey.

00:31:47.336 --> 00:31:59.850
And<00:31:47.480> what<00:31:47.657> we've<00:31:47.817> seen<00:31:48.042> over<00:31:48.219> time,<00:31:49.263> yeah,<00:31:49.504> and<00:31:49.585> what<00:31:49.729> we've<00:31:49.826> seen<00:31:50.131> over<00:31:50.243> time<00:31:50.564> is<00:31:50.709> the<00:31:51.111> companies<00:31:51.593> that<00:31:51.834> do<00:31:52.075> that<00:31:52.862> typically<00:31:53.424> trade<00:31:53.842> for<00:31:54.002> about<00:31:54.404> 14%<00:31:55.207> higher<00:31:55.609> in<00:31:55.689> terms<00:31:55.994> of<00:31:56.026> multiples<00:31:56.573> than<00:31:56.717> companies<00:31:57.119> that<00:31:57.296> don't<00:31:57.536> go<00:31:57.633> through<00:31:57.858> that<00:31:58.018> exit<00:31:58.292> planning,<00:31:58.725> you<00:31:58.902> know,<00:31:59.063> process<00:31:59.625> first.

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So<00:32:00.010> I'd<00:32:00.332> always<00:32:00.589> say<00:32:00.749> just<00:32:00.974> reach<00:32:01.215> out<00:32:01.312> and<00:32:01.456> speak<00:32:01.649> to<00:32:01.938> us<00:32:02.179> or,<00:32:02.420> you<00:32:02.452> know,<00:32:02.613> our<00:32:02.902> advisors<00:32:03.641> in<00:32:04.364> in<00:32:04.508> the<00:32:04.588> space<00:32:04.926> in<00:32:05.070> general,<00:32:05.712> because<00:32:06.194> there's<00:32:06.355> usually<00:32:06.660> a<00:32:06.692> lot<00:32:06.868> of,<00:32:06.997> you<00:32:07.029> know,<00:32:07.334> good<00:32:07.639> pointers<00:32:08.057> and<00:32:08.137> advice<00:32:08.394> that<00:32:08.603> can<00:32:08.683> be<00:32:08.860> given,<00:32:09.903> you<00:32:10.000> know,<00:32:10.289> over<00:32:10.481> time<00:32:10.786> as<00:32:10.867> well.

00:32:12.151 --> 00:32:13.066
Yeah,<00:32:12.392> that's<00:32:12.633> fascinating.

00:32:13.516 --> 00:32:14.833
Ismael,<00:32:13.901> thanks<00:32:14.126> so<00:32:14.158> much<00:32:14.303> for<00:32:14.399> coming<00:32:14.624> on.

00:32:14.881 --> 00:32:15.684
I<00:32:14.945> really<00:32:15.186> appreciate<00:32:15.619> it.

00:32:15.748 --> 00:32:17.883
Let's<00:32:15.908> have<00:32:16.021> you<00:32:16.149> on<00:32:16.246> again<00:32:16.792> at<00:32:17.305> some<00:32:17.530> point.

00:32:18.638 --> 00:32:19.666
Good<00:32:18.815> luck<00:32:19.040> with<00:32:19.200> everything.

00:32:20.565 --> 00:32:22.411
Your<00:32:21.063> insights<00:32:21.528> here<00:32:21.689> were<00:32:21.866> invaluable.

00:32:23.070 --> 00:32:23.648
Thanks,<00:32:23.375> man.

00:32:24.258 --> 00:32:26.265
Appreciate<00:32:26.121> it.

00:32:26.586 --> 00:32:30.633
Thank<00:32:27.871> you<00:32:28.770> for<00:32:29.252> having<00:32:29.958> me<00:32:30.520> on.