Before he backed unicorns, Jon Keidan booked bands

Jon Keidan helped book Dave Matthews Band's first show in St. Louis. He was a freshman drummer at Washington University who had joined the concert committee, which booked national acts for campus shows.

"Coran Capshaw, their manager, gave me a gig as a very unproven young college kid, and we ended up vastly outselling what the expectations were," Keidan told the CEO.com Podcast. "That started a relationship with him and the band."

Keidan now runs Torch Capital, a New York early-stage venture firm with more than $400 million under management. His first angel check went into Zocdoc's first round. His second went to Robert Reffkin at Compass. He was early in Sweetgreen, DigitalOcean, Ro, and Acorns, and counts seven or eight unicorns backed from the earliest stages. He doesn't see any of it as a career change.

"Whether it was bands, you find them as a manager, you nurture them, you get them signed, you build their audience," he said. "Same thing with entrepreneurs."

The route between the two jobs ran through some unlikely rooms. When technology started dismantling the music business, Quincy Jones spent time helping Keidan rethink his career, and ultimately talked him into business school, an unusual move in entertainment at the time. After Columbia came McKinsey's media and tech practice, then two years as Jack Welch's right hand, helping the former GE chief launch the Jack Welch Management Institute.

Welch was then probably the most famous CEO in the world. What Keidan remembers is watching him work a hotel lobby.

"I remember being on the road with him, and he'd want to chat up the driver, or the bellman, or anyone," Keidan said. "It was just an unbelievable intellectual curiosity and a personal curiosity that was unsatiated, and everyone was treated equally that way. As big as he was, as he said, he loved to be on the shop floor as much as he loved to be in the C-suite."

Keidan co-founded the digital media company InsideHook in 2011 and sold it to private equity in 2018, the same year he launched Torch with backing from Silas Chou, the investor behind Tommy Hilfiger and Michael Kors. Torch's investors also include James Murdoch, Bob Pittman, and Diplo.

Torch has deliberately kept its funds small, even when the market rewarded the opposite. "Just because you could doesn't mean you should," Keidan said. "There's not enough quality companies that you can get enough ownership in to turn a $500 million early-stage fund and be true to that stage." When valuations spiked in 2021, Torch slowed down while everyone else sped up. Keidan says that fund is now a top decile performer.

The portfolio keeps producing. In February, Solace Health raised a $130 million Series C led by IVP at a valuation above $1 billion, with Torch participating as an existing investor.

Ask Keidan what he looks for, and he starts with mission, but he spends more time on what he screens out.

"There are a lot of smart people who can put something on a whiteboard and try to make a successful project or product or a company out of it because there's a space and there's money to be made," he said. "That's not interesting to me. What's interesting is people who really understand their end user, and every decision they make is going to be how they benefit that end user."

His advice to founders: think big, start narrow, and win the first step to earn the right to win the second. Almost every unicorn he has been part of found its real business adjacent to its original idea. "Like Compass. At first, they thought, well, maybe tech should disrupt real estate agents. Then they realized people really like their real estate agents. So then they're like, okay, maybe tech should enhance real estate agents, and boom, they're a multi-billion dollar public company."

On AI: "It's like thinking about AltaVista, which was an early search engine back in the late '90s. No one's ever heard of it or talked about it since, but at the time, it was revolutionary. So the capability was there, but what it looks like and how it's going to impact is just beginning. What we're seeing now is not what it's going to look like in two years and definitely not what it's going to look like in five years."

Every episode of the CEO.com Podcast ends with the same question, because the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes. Keidan named four people. Coran Capshaw, who hired an unproven college kid. Quincy Jones, who helped him walk away from the industry he loved. Jack Welch, who opened up his life and let Keidan learn beside him. And Silas Chou, who gave him the confidence to start Torch.

"I don't think I could have created Torch the way I have with the speed and success without his guidance," Keidan said. "I've been very lucky."

00:00:00 Introduction to Jon Keidan
00:00:23 From Music Business to Venture Capital
00:02:01 How a Diverse Background Shapes Investing
00:03:05 Mentorship Under Jack Welch
00:06:14 Early Investments in ZocDoc and Compass
00:08:54 Qualities to Look for in Startups
00:12:05 Lessons Learned at McKinsey
00:14:22 Insights From the Council on Foreign Relations
00:16:26 Advice for Mission-Driven Entrepreneurs
00:20:15 Balancing Work and Life as a Founder
00:22:15 A Typical Day in Venture Capital
00:24:48 Surprising Lessons From the Journey
00:26:42 Mental Health and Resilience
00:28:09 AI's Role in Early-Stage Startups
00:32:34 Mentors Who Gave Jon a Chance

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I<00:03:01.620> was<00:03:01.764> introduced<00:03:02.166> to<00:03:02.311> Jack<00:03:02.568> Welch<00:03:02.889> by<00:03:03.033> actually<00:03:03.274> some<00:03:03.435> entertainment<00:03:03.917> contacts<00:03:04.495> who<00:03:04.559> were<00:03:04.640> working<00:03:04.880> on<00:03:04.961> a<00:03:05.057> TV<00:03:05.298> show<00:03:05.555> with<00:03:05.700> him,<00:03:06.406> and<00:03:06.503> they<00:03:06.583> needed<00:03:06.904> me<00:03:07.065> to<00:03:07.145> just<00:03:07.370> run<00:03:07.531> some<00:03:07.691> case<00:03:07.868> studies<00:03:08.269> with<00:03:08.414> him<00:03:08.494> because<00:03:08.767> I<00:03:08.800> was<00:03:08.928> at<00:03:08.992> McKinsey.

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I<00:03:09.844> hadn't<00:03:10.036> been<00:03:10.181> there,<00:03:10.358> I<00:03:10.374> never<00:03:10.582> would<00:03:10.663> have<00:03:10.759> gotten<00:03:10.984> that<00:03:11.080> intro.

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And<00:03:12.189> then<00:03:12.365> he<00:03:12.526> was<00:03:12.686> launching<00:03:13.072> an<00:03:13.152> online<00:03:13.506> education<00:03:14.052> venture<00:03:14.373> and<00:03:14.518> brought<00:03:14.710> me<00:03:14.855> in<00:03:14.935> to<00:03:15.015> be<00:03:15.160> his<00:03:15.321> right<00:03:15.562> hand.

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And<00:03:15.979> that<00:03:16.140> was<00:03:16.783> my<00:03:16.863> first<00:03:17.250> startup<00:03:17.588> experience,<00:03:18.151> but<00:03:18.296> also<00:03:18.698> a<00:03:18.795> tremendous<00:03:19.922> business<00:03:20.405> mentorship<00:03:20.904> experience.

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And<00:03:21.677> I<00:03:21.709> spent<00:03:22.498> 2<00:03:22.643> years<00:03:22.900> with<00:03:23.061> him<00:03:23.705> and<00:03:23.802> his<00:03:23.947> wife<00:03:24.108> Susie,<00:03:24.993> and<00:03:25.074> they<00:03:25.299> built<00:03:25.476> this<00:03:25.637> company<00:03:26.040> and<00:03:26.104> sold<00:03:26.346> it<00:03:26.442> to<00:03:26.523> Strayer.

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And<00:03:27.411> that's<00:03:27.637> how<00:03:27.734> I<00:03:27.895> got<00:03:28.202> into<00:03:28.444> the<00:03:28.525> startup<00:03:28.944> world.

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And<00:03:29.913> then<00:03:30.010> it<00:03:30.074> was<00:03:30.300> really<00:03:30.785> on<00:03:30.946> the<00:03:31.043> entrepreneur<00:03:31.543> and<00:03:31.672> operating<00:03:32.173> side.

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And<00:03:32.883> on<00:03:32.980> the<00:03:33.061> side<00:03:34.029> of<00:03:34.110> that,<00:03:34.497> I<00:03:34.578> was<00:03:34.901> starting<00:03:35.304> to<00:03:35.337> do<00:03:35.466> angel<00:03:35.725> investments<00:03:36.683> and<00:03:37.917> love<00:03:38.144> that.

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And<00:03:39.134> as<00:03:40.758> my<00:03:40.904> last<00:03:41.082> company<00:03:41.488> was<00:03:41.650> called<00:03:41.910> InsideHook,<00:03:43.348> we<00:03:43.444> sold<00:03:43.701> to<00:03:43.829> private<00:03:44.151> equity,<00:03:45.034> I<00:03:45.387> was<00:03:45.772> thinking,<00:03:46.077> what<00:03:46.190> do<00:03:46.238> I<00:03:46.318> want<00:03:46.463> to<00:03:46.495> do<00:03:46.655> next?

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Do<00:03:46.992> I<00:03:47.025> want<00:03:47.121> to<00:03:47.153> start<00:03:47.394> another<00:03:47.683> company?

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Do<00:03:48.325> I<00:03:48.405> want<00:03:48.566> to<00:03:48.823> invest?

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And<00:03:50.043> I<00:03:50.075> was<00:03:50.187> like,<00:03:50.509> you<00:03:50.589> can<00:03:50.733> kind<00:03:50.974> of<00:03:51.054> do<00:03:51.231> both<00:03:52.098> if<00:03:53.399> you<00:03:53.543> look<00:03:53.720> at<00:03:53.816> it<00:03:53.944> the<00:03:54.025> right<00:03:54.201> way.

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And<00:03:54.924> I<00:03:55.004> started<00:03:55.341> to<00:03:55.422> see<00:03:55.646> the<00:03:55.727> parallels<00:03:56.353> from<00:03:57.396> my<00:03:57.734> life<00:03:57.990> as<00:03:58.135> a<00:03:58.151> manager<00:03:59.082> to<00:03:59.259> what<00:03:59.821> actually<00:04:00.126> being<00:04:00.286> an<00:04:00.383> early-stage<00:04:00.880> investor<00:04:01.346> looks<00:04:01.587> like.

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And<00:04:02.069> I<00:04:02.149> was<00:04:02.293> like,<00:04:02.470> wait<00:04:02.727> a<00:04:02.775> minute,<00:04:03.594> there<00:04:03.658> are<00:04:03.690> a<00:04:03.706> lot<00:04:03.979> of<00:04:04.397> unusual<00:04:04.878> parallels.

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And<00:04:05.665> you<00:04:05.761> asked,<00:04:07.110> what<00:04:07.238> did<00:04:07.303> that<00:04:07.527> background<00:04:08.009> present?

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Enabled<00:04:09.293> me<00:04:09.373> to<00:04:09.533> connect<00:04:09.870> dots,<00:04:10.254> I<00:04:10.415> think,<00:04:10.575> in<00:04:10.719> unique<00:04:10.976> ways<00:04:11.377> and<00:04:11.777> use<00:04:12.018> the<00:04:12.563> ability<00:04:12.899> to<00:04:13.060> recognize<00:04:13.541> talent<00:04:13.909> in<00:04:14.038> unique<00:04:14.342> ways.

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And<00:04:15.240> if<00:04:15.368> you<00:04:15.448> see<00:04:15.705> things<00:04:15.945> other<00:04:16.170> people<00:04:16.506> don't<00:04:17.308> and<00:04:17.404> it's<00:04:17.548> the<00:04:17.628> right<00:04:17.869> things,<00:04:18.173> that<00:04:18.286> can<00:04:18.494> create<00:04:18.734> a<00:04:18.751> lot<00:04:18.927> of<00:04:19.055> opportunity,<00:04:19.568> especially<00:04:20.113> as<00:04:20.257> an<00:04:20.354> investor.

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So<00:04:21.620> Jack<00:04:21.941> Welch<00:04:22.261> is<00:04:22.373> a<00:04:22.518> legend,<00:04:23.624> just<00:04:23.816> a<00:04:23.960> legendary<00:04:24.746> businessman<00:04:25.467> who—<00:04:26.349> I<00:04:27.711> immediately<00:04:28.914> think<00:04:29.026> of<00:04:29.090> 30<00:04:29.475> Rock<00:04:29.827> and<00:04:29.972> Jack<00:04:30.212> Donaghy<00:04:30.918> and<00:04:31.495> that<00:04:31.879> whole—.

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He<00:04:32.440> was<00:04:33.883> not<00:04:33.979> like<00:04:34.204> Jack<00:04:34.460> Donaghy.

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Yeah,<00:04:35.646> but<00:04:35.903> Donaghy<00:04:36.544> revered<00:04:37.089> Jack<00:04:37.346> Welch.

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I<00:04:37.907> think<00:04:38.051> Jack<00:04:38.291> actually<00:04:38.612> made<00:04:38.933> an<00:04:39.269> appearance<00:04:39.766> on<00:04:39.830> the<00:04:39.911> show.

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He<00:04:41.040> did.

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He<00:04:41.541> did.

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Yeah.

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Which<00:04:42.700> is<00:04:42.940> hilarious.

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But<00:04:43.900> he's<00:04:44.080> this<00:04:44.260> legendary<00:04:44.760> businessman<00:04:45.120> who's<00:04:45.360> beloved<00:04:45.660> by<00:04:45.840> everyone.

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What<00:04:46.180> did<00:04:46.320> you<00:04:46.460> learn<00:04:46.680> from<00:04:46.920> him<00:04:47.120> during<00:04:47.320> those<00:04:47.600> 2<00:04:47.800> years?

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What<00:04:48.260> are<00:04:48.400> some<00:04:48.540> of<00:04:48.640> the<00:04:48.720> things<00:04:48.880> you<00:04:49.000> took<00:04:49.140> away<00:04:49.340> from<00:04:49.540> that?

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Wow.

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There's<00:04:50.660> so<00:04:50.840> much.

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I<00:04:51.540> mean,<00:04:51.640> I<00:04:51.760> think<00:04:51.920> the<00:04:52.100> first<00:04:52.340> thing<00:04:52.560> that's<00:04:52.760> really<00:04:52.980> interesting,<00:04:53.740> and<00:04:54.040> at<00:04:54.260> the<00:04:54.500> time,<00:04:55.360> he<00:04:55.540> was<00:04:55.660> probably<00:04:55.840> the<00:04:56.020> most<00:04:56.100> famous<00:04:56.460> CEO<00:04:56.900> in<00:04:57.080> the<00:04:57.200> world,<00:04:57.420> even<00:04:57.620> though<00:04:57.740> he'd<00:04:58.040> stepped<00:04:58.160> down<00:04:58.420> from<00:04:58.720> GE.

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His<00:05:01.000> ability<00:05:01.460> to<00:05:01.740> connect<00:05:02.060> with<00:05:02.280> people<00:05:02.580> was<00:05:02.940> really<00:05:03.320> unparalleled.

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It<00:05:04.060> was<00:05:04.160> funny.

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He<00:05:06.280> hated<00:05:07.400> politics.

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I<00:05:08.040> mean,<00:05:08.140> he<00:05:08.180> loved<00:05:08.300> supporting<00:05:08.720> Republican<00:05:09.140> politics,<00:05:09.960> which<00:05:10.180> I<00:05:10.280> was<00:05:10.792> a<00:05:11.097> different<00:05:11.338> side<00:05:11.530> of<00:05:11.595> that.

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But<00:05:12.397> he<00:05:12.879> didn't<00:05:13.120> like<00:05:13.345> politics.

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He<00:05:13.874> didn't<00:05:13.987> like<00:05:14.083> the<00:05:14.228> act<00:05:14.404> of<00:05:14.484> it,<00:05:14.629> but<00:05:14.725> he<00:05:14.886> could<00:05:15.046> connect<00:05:15.512> with<00:05:15.833> everybody.

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I<00:05:16.893> remember<00:05:17.278> being<00:05:17.455> on<00:05:17.535> the<00:05:17.679> road<00:05:17.856> with<00:05:18.016> him<00:05:18.803> and<00:05:19.044> he'd<00:05:20.810> want<00:05:20.970> to<00:05:21.067> chat<00:05:21.372> up<00:05:21.484> the<00:05:21.613> cab<00:05:21.934> driver—<00:05:22.576> the<00:05:22.672> driver<00:05:23.218> wasn't<00:05:23.379> a<00:05:23.395> cab<00:05:23.636> driver,<00:05:23.876> but<00:05:23.957> his<00:05:24.117> driver<00:05:24.438> at<00:05:24.583> the<00:05:24.663> time,<00:05:25.080> or<00:05:25.562> the<00:05:25.723> bellman<00:05:26.349> or<00:05:27.071> anyone.

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Really,<00:05:28.452> it<00:05:28.934> was<00:05:29.014> just<00:05:29.399> an<00:05:30.057> unbelievable<00:05:30.844> intellectual<00:05:31.422> curiosity<00:05:32.225> and<00:05:32.321> a<00:05:32.449> personal<00:05:32.867> curiosity<00:05:34.055> that<00:05:34.858> was<00:05:35.115> unsatiated<00:05:36.142> and<00:05:36.559> it<00:05:36.624> was<00:05:37.202> Everyone<00:05:37.506> was<00:05:37.602> treated<00:05:37.827> equally<00:05:38.147> that<00:05:38.308> way.

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And<00:05:38.644> that<00:05:38.869> was<00:05:39.526> really<00:05:39.702> incredible<00:05:40.183> because<00:05:40.392> I<00:05:40.488> think<00:05:40.632> he<00:05:40.728> got<00:05:40.953> insights<00:05:41.369> in<00:05:41.450> how<00:05:41.530> people<00:05:41.866> think.

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If<00:05:42.956> you<00:05:43.037> read<00:05:43.213> about<00:05:43.373> his<00:05:43.533> history<00:05:43.918> at<00:05:43.998> GE,<00:05:44.816> he<00:05:44.960> had<00:05:45.040> insights<00:05:45.441> that<00:05:45.858> he<00:05:46.194> disagreed<00:05:46.643> with<00:05:46.739> his<00:05:46.804> senior<00:05:47.124> execs,<00:05:47.477> right?

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And<00:05:47.765> he<00:05:47.846> was<00:05:48.006> right<00:05:48.583> because<00:05:48.807> he<00:05:48.984> really<00:05:49.288> was<00:05:49.529> always<00:05:49.721> trying<00:05:49.946> to<00:05:50.090> figure<00:05:50.410> out<00:05:50.507> what<00:05:50.683> the<00:05:50.891> end<00:05:51.068> customer<00:05:51.549> wanted<00:05:52.190> and<00:05:52.334> put<00:05:52.494> himself<00:05:52.911> in<00:05:52.975> those<00:05:53.087> shoes.

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But<00:05:53.552> it<00:05:53.632> came<00:05:53.857> from<00:05:54.001> a<00:05:54.033> very<00:05:54.338> natural<00:05:55.620> perspective<00:05:56.502> of<00:05:57.159> loving<00:05:57.720> to<00:05:57.800> talk<00:05:58.025> to<00:05:58.121> people<00:05:58.586> and<00:05:58.746> learning<00:05:59.019> about<00:05:59.243> their<00:05:59.403> background<00:05:59.900> and<00:06:00.045> learning<00:06:00.301> about<00:06:00.461> what<00:06:00.670> motivated<00:06:01.151> them.

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And<00:06:02.609> so,<00:06:02.770> that<00:06:03.154> was<00:06:04.132> incredible<00:06:05.174> to<00:06:05.334> watch<00:06:05.655> that<00:06:05.896> and<00:06:06.040> see<00:06:06.296> how<00:06:06.441> he<00:06:06.633> approached<00:06:07.034> the<00:06:07.178> world<00:06:07.402> that<00:06:07.563> way.

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As<00:06:08.220> big<00:06:08.396> as<00:06:08.524> he<00:06:08.621> was,<00:06:09.904> As<00:06:10.225> he<00:06:10.370> said,<00:06:10.627> he<00:06:10.787> loves<00:06:11.012> to<00:06:11.189> be<00:06:11.349> on<00:06:11.429> the<00:06:11.510> shop<00:06:11.831> floor<00:06:12.072> as<00:06:12.232> much<00:06:12.457> as<00:06:12.553> he'd<00:06:12.778> love<00:06:12.939> to<00:06:13.035> be<00:06:13.115> in<00:06:13.195> the<00:06:13.276> C-suite.

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So<00:06:14.399> tell<00:06:14.544> us<00:06:14.656> about<00:06:14.801> your<00:06:14.961> investing.

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And<00:06:16.149> so<00:06:16.310> you<00:06:16.406> said<00:06:16.711> you<00:06:16.743> started<00:06:17.113> with<00:06:17.353> doing<00:06:17.546> some<00:06:17.707> angel<00:06:18.012> investing<00:06:19.360> and<00:06:19.456> that<00:06:19.697> led<00:06:19.938> to,<00:06:20.259> hey,<00:06:20.420> this<00:06:20.644> realization<00:06:21.222> that,<00:06:21.544> hey,<00:06:21.704> there's<00:06:21.865> a<00:06:21.929> lot<00:06:22.089> of<00:06:22.186> overlap<00:06:22.667> between<00:06:22.908> what<00:06:23.133> I<00:06:23.213> was<00:06:23.454> doing<00:06:23.727> and<00:06:23.871> what<00:06:24.176> a<00:06:24.353> VC<00:06:24.835> does<00:06:25.236> and<00:06:25.332> all<00:06:25.541> of<00:06:25.637> this<00:06:25.798> stuff.

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Give<00:06:27.018> us<00:06:27.162> a<00:06:27.227> sense<00:06:27.467> for<00:06:27.724> what<00:06:27.885> made<00:06:28.110> you<00:06:28.190> jump<00:06:28.511> all<00:06:28.591> the<00:06:28.672> way<00:06:28.848> in<00:06:29.009> on<00:06:29.169> that.

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Well,<00:06:29.795> I<00:06:29.876> think,<00:06:30.454> look,<00:06:30.678> I<00:06:30.759> knew<00:06:30.855> nothing<00:06:31.192> about<00:06:31.433> investing<00:06:32.123> when<00:06:32.219> I<00:06:32.236> started<00:06:32.781> writing<00:06:33.102> angel<00:06:33.343> checks.

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I<00:06:33.905> was<00:06:34.290> just<00:06:34.772> working<00:06:35.029> for<00:06:35.109> Jack,<00:06:35.511> getting<00:06:35.751> in<00:06:35.816> the<00:06:35.848> startup<00:06:36.313> world<00:06:36.634> in<00:06:36.715> New<00:06:36.795> York,<00:06:37.116> which<00:06:37.293> is<00:06:37.517> in<00:06:37.614> itself<00:06:38.079> just<00:06:39.428> getting<00:06:39.604> reinvigorated.

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But<00:06:40.744> I<00:06:40.809> know<00:06:41.435> I<00:06:41.933> recognize<00:06:42.286> something,<00:06:42.719> and<00:06:42.768> it<00:06:42.816> really<00:06:42.976> comes<00:06:43.217> back<00:06:43.474> to<00:06:43.603> talent<00:06:44.020> and<00:06:44.165> seeing<00:06:44.357> a<00:06:44.405> market<00:06:44.807> opportunity,<00:06:45.529> which<00:06:45.706> is<00:06:45.850> where<00:06:45.947> the<00:06:46.091> parallels,<00:06:46.589> I<00:06:46.605> think,<00:06:46.830> to<00:06:46.974> music<00:06:47.296> come<00:06:47.488> in.

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The<00:06:48.757> first<00:06:48.998> check<00:06:49.174> I<00:06:49.222> ever<00:06:49.399> wrote<00:06:49.624> was<00:06:49.784> into<00:06:49.945> Zocdoc<00:06:50.507> into<00:06:50.619> their<00:06:50.748> first<00:06:51.069> round,<00:06:51.422> and<00:06:51.486> I<00:06:51.502> met<00:06:51.711> Cyrus,<00:06:52.129> the<00:06:52.273> founder,<00:06:53.156> and<00:06:53.253> his<00:06:53.477> vision.

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I<00:06:54.039> understood<00:06:54.377> the<00:06:54.457> pain<00:06:54.698> point<00:06:54.922> he<00:06:55.019> was<00:06:55.099> solving,<00:06:55.902> that<00:06:55.998> it's<00:06:56.207> very<00:06:56.464> hard<00:06:56.624> to<00:06:56.705> find<00:06:56.962> a<00:06:57.026> doctor.

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And<00:06:57.813> how<00:06:57.989> do<00:06:58.053> you<00:06:58.134> know<00:06:58.246> if<00:06:58.310> they<00:06:58.391> take<00:06:58.632> your<00:06:58.712> insurance?

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And<00:06:59.338> how<00:06:59.434> do<00:06:59.499> you<00:06:59.531> know<00:06:59.836> if<00:07:00.414> it<00:07:00.558> matches<00:07:00.863> your<00:07:00.960> calendar?

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And<00:07:01.907> as<00:07:02.003> people<00:07:02.308> are<00:07:02.341> moving<00:07:02.710> jobs<00:07:03.127> more<00:07:03.288> and<00:07:03.432> more,<00:07:03.770> leaving<00:07:04.442> university<00:07:04.992> or<00:07:05.251> traveling<00:07:05.736> around,<00:07:06.610> how<00:07:06.772> can<00:07:06.853> you<00:07:07.015> create<00:07:07.274> consistency<00:07:08.002> nationally?

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A<00:07:08.730> huge<00:07:09.070> vision.

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And<00:07:10.413> he<00:07:10.494> was<00:07:10.656> very<00:07:10.818> passionate<00:07:11.238> about<00:07:11.546> it<00:07:11.724> and<00:07:11.788> he<00:07:11.869> had<00:07:11.966> a<00:07:12.355> really<00:07:12.614> explicit<00:07:13.913> way<00:07:14.155> of<00:07:14.301> how<00:07:14.721> this<00:07:14.947> could<00:07:15.109> work<00:07:15.448> and<00:07:15.545> how<00:07:15.756> technology<00:07:16.968> could<00:07:17.130> enable<00:07:17.453> this<00:07:17.615> capability<00:07:18.908> for<00:07:19.005> this<00:07:19.151> platform<00:07:19.555> that<00:07:19.652> never<00:07:19.894> existed<00:07:20.298> before.

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And<00:07:20.864> so,<00:07:22.698> we'd<00:07:22.860> speak<00:07:23.345> and<00:07:23.442> I'd<00:07:23.604> find<00:07:23.782> out<00:07:23.863> how<00:07:23.944> it<00:07:23.992> was<00:07:24.170> going.

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And<00:07:24.655> finally,<00:07:24.881> he's<00:07:25.043> like,<00:07:25.625> "You're<00:07:25.739> so<00:07:25.949> interested<00:07:26.418> in<00:07:26.450> this.

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You<00:07:26.660> have<00:07:26.741> such<00:07:27.000> interesting<00:07:27.388> insights.

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Why<00:07:27.841> don't<00:07:27.954> you<00:07:28.051> actually<00:07:28.294> write<00:07:28.472> a<00:07:28.536> check?"<00:07:28.860> And<00:07:28.941> that<00:07:29.086> was<00:07:29.329> really<00:07:29.604> scary.

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To<00:07:30.596> write<00:07:30.772> a<00:07:30.836> check.

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Luckily,<00:07:31.397> I<00:07:31.413> made<00:07:31.557> a<00:07:31.653> little<00:07:31.814> bit<00:07:31.910> of<00:07:31.974> money<00:07:32.198> in<00:07:32.230> music,<00:07:32.679> and<00:07:32.791> so<00:07:32.871> I<00:07:32.919> was<00:07:33.096> like,<00:07:33.256> okay,<00:07:34.698> I'll<00:07:35.018> write<00:07:35.195> a<00:07:35.259> check.

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And<00:07:36.044> that<00:07:36.444> was<00:07:36.541> my<00:07:36.685> first<00:07:37.005> one.

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And<00:07:37.326> then<00:07:38.223> I<00:07:38.688> met<00:07:39.104> Rob.

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Well,<00:07:39.665> Rob<00:07:39.906> Refkin,<00:07:40.370> who<00:07:40.402> started<00:07:40.787> Compass,<00:07:41.187> was<00:07:41.348> my<00:07:41.428> second<00:07:41.812> check,<00:07:42.133> and<00:07:42.213> I'd<00:07:42.309> known<00:07:42.469> him<00:07:42.630> already.

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And<00:07:43.735> he<00:07:43.992> partnered<00:07:44.392> with<00:07:44.616> Ori<00:07:44.873> Allon,<00:07:45.273> and<00:07:45.370> it<00:07:45.418> was<00:07:45.530> a<00:07:45.594> really<00:07:45.914> brilliant<00:07:46.395> team<00:07:46.700> of<00:07:47.340> visionary<00:07:47.837> founder,<00:07:48.318> charismatic,<00:07:49.440> with<00:07:49.584> an<00:07:49.776> incredible<00:07:50.321> technical<00:07:50.802> background<00:07:51.282> co-founder.

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And<00:07:52.484> they're<00:07:52.580> like,<00:07:52.869> look,<00:07:53.141> there's<00:07:53.670> opportunity<00:07:54.231> how<00:07:54.407> tech<00:07:54.647> can<00:07:54.807> reshape<00:07:55.352> how<00:07:55.512> people<00:07:55.769> buy<00:07:55.929> houses,<00:07:56.410> how<00:07:56.554> agents<00:07:56.955> operate.

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Empowering<00:07:58.238> agents<00:07:58.720> and<00:07:58.816> customers<00:08:00.084> and<00:08:00.486> huge<00:08:00.759> market.

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And<00:08:01.385> there<00:08:01.481> was<00:08:01.610> just<00:08:01.770> something<00:08:02.172> there<00:08:02.348> that<00:08:02.493> was<00:08:02.734> extra<00:08:03.007> that<00:08:03.215> wasn't<00:08:03.537> there<00:08:03.649> with<00:08:03.874> other<00:08:04.098> folks<00:08:04.420> who<00:08:04.516> had<00:08:04.677> spoken<00:08:05.078> to.

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And<00:08:05.897> so<00:08:06.138> it<00:08:06.186> was<00:08:06.346> really<00:08:06.924> being<00:08:07.872> attracted<00:08:08.835> and<00:08:09.172> getting<00:08:10.152> the<00:08:10.296> magnet<00:08:10.714> of<00:08:10.794> talent.

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And<00:08:12.030> then<00:08:12.207> an<00:08:12.625> interesting<00:08:13.170> pain<00:08:13.427> point<00:08:13.829> was<00:08:14.776> that<00:08:14.889> was<00:08:15.097> all<00:08:15.194> I<00:08:15.274> knew.

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I<00:08:16.012> wasn't<00:08:16.237> thinking<00:08:16.558> about<00:08:16.719> models<00:08:17.442> and<00:08:17.522> the<00:08:17.586> specifics,<00:08:18.389> but<00:08:18.469> I<00:08:18.501> saw<00:08:19.609> the<00:08:19.754> North<00:08:19.930> Star<00:08:20.492> and<00:08:21.054> both<00:08:21.456> very<00:08:21.697> mission-driven<00:08:22.355> founders.

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And<00:08:23.927> so<00:08:24.248> that<00:08:24.488> sort<00:08:24.680> of<00:08:24.745> became<00:08:25.129> the<00:08:25.161> theme,<00:08:25.546> and<00:08:25.610> I<00:08:25.690> did<00:08:25.867> more<00:08:25.995> and<00:08:26.107> more,<00:08:26.347> and<00:08:26.492> I<00:08:26.588> learned<00:08:26.828> as<00:08:26.989> I<00:08:27.133> went.

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But<00:08:28.111> it<00:08:28.191> really<00:08:28.415> started<00:08:28.896> with<00:08:29.473> direct<00:08:29.794> relationships,<00:08:31.060> understanding<00:08:31.621> a<00:08:31.637> market<00:08:32.022> opportunity,<00:08:32.759> and<00:08:32.839> having<00:08:33.144> the<00:08:33.240> belief<00:08:34.106> that<00:08:34.266> this<00:08:34.442> founder<00:08:34.843> was<00:08:34.987> going<00:08:35.084> to<00:08:35.148> find<00:08:35.468> a<00:08:35.548> way<00:08:36.206> to<00:08:36.366> solve<00:08:36.687> that<00:08:36.847> pain<00:08:37.087> point.

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Have<00:08:37.953> you<00:08:38.113> always<00:08:38.370> invested<00:08:39.011> early<00:08:39.267> stage?

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I<00:08:39.812> mean,<00:08:40.293> that's<00:08:40.774> incredible.

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And<00:08:41.816> if<00:08:41.912> so,<00:08:42.682> and<00:08:43.339> even<00:08:43.579> if<00:08:43.659> you<00:08:43.740> don't,<00:08:44.461> what<00:08:44.621> are<00:08:44.685> the<00:08:44.782> qualities<00:08:45.343> that<00:08:45.487> you<00:08:45.583> look<00:08:45.823> for<00:08:46.465> when<00:08:47.442> an<00:08:47.571> investor<00:08:48.244> or<00:08:48.532> when<00:08:48.709> a<00:08:48.725> startup<00:08:49.334> or<00:08:49.430> entrepreneur<00:08:50.376> pitches<00:08:50.713> you<00:08:50.890> an<00:08:51.018> idea<00:08:51.420> or<00:08:51.532> something<00:08:51.821> like<00:08:51.998> that,<00:08:53.106> what<00:08:53.170> are<00:08:53.266> you<00:08:53.427> looking<00:08:53.748> for?

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To<00:08:54.663> start,<00:08:55.129> yes,<00:08:55.691> I've<00:08:55.771> always<00:08:56.012> invested<00:08:56.494> early,<00:08:56.895> sort<00:08:57.200> of<00:08:57.859> whether<00:08:58.115> it<00:08:58.164> was<00:08:58.340> bands,<00:08:58.822> you<00:08:58.982> find<00:08:59.304> them<00:08:59.528> as<00:08:59.625> a<00:08:59.641> manager,<00:09:00.267> you<00:09:00.412> nurture<00:09:00.733> them,<00:09:00.973> you<00:09:01.054> get<00:09:01.214> them<00:09:01.327> signed,<00:09:01.776> you<00:09:01.873> build<00:09:02.049> their<00:09:02.194> audience.

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Same<00:09:03.318> thing<00:09:03.462> with<00:09:03.639> entrepreneurs.

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I<00:09:05.646> like<00:09:05.871> recognizing<00:09:06.449> it<00:09:06.545> early,<00:09:06.914> and<00:09:06.995> I<00:09:07.091> love<00:09:07.252> rolling<00:09:07.557> up<00:09:07.637> my<00:09:07.733> sleeves<00:09:08.279> and<00:09:08.360> really<00:09:08.922> helping<00:09:09.259> shape<00:09:09.660> and<00:09:09.740> build<00:09:10.078> and<00:09:10.222> guide<00:09:10.945> best<00:09:11.250> I<00:09:11.266> can<00:09:12.470> with<00:09:12.631> founders.

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So,<00:09:13.594> yes,<00:09:13.835> it's<00:09:13.979> always<00:09:14.156> been<00:09:14.300> early.

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And<00:09:16.035> I<00:09:16.068> also<00:09:16.470> honestly<00:09:16.744> never<00:09:17.050> really<00:09:17.291> had<00:09:17.533> the<00:09:17.613> chops<00:09:18.644> to<00:09:18.740> be<00:09:18.837> a<00:09:18.982> growth<00:09:19.223> investor,<00:09:19.706> and<00:09:19.851> it<00:09:19.932> was<00:09:20.109> much<00:09:20.334> more<00:09:20.511> data<00:09:21.703> balance<00:09:22.025> sheet<00:09:22.266> looking<00:09:22.605> versus<00:09:23.716> vision<00:09:24.199> looking.

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And<00:09:24.682> I<00:09:25.020> like<00:09:25.245> to<00:09:25.327> assess<00:09:25.689> visions.

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What<00:09:27.627> I<00:09:27.708> look<00:09:27.870> for,<00:09:29.021> first<00:09:29.491> of<00:09:29.572> all,<00:09:31.225> a<00:09:31.290> clear<00:09:31.614> mission<00:09:32.100> that<00:09:32.976> I<00:09:33.219> personally<00:09:33.786> believe<00:09:34.126> in,<00:09:34.450> that<00:09:34.856> is<00:09:35.018> a<00:09:35.034> mission<00:09:35.310> that<00:09:35.423> needs<00:09:35.665> to—<00:09:36.134> where<00:09:36.312> I<00:09:36.328> say<00:09:36.619> pain<00:09:36.797> points,<00:09:37.201> very<00:09:37.363> similar.

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Acorns,<00:09:39.287> which<00:09:39.465> is<00:09:39.610> one<00:09:39.788> of<00:09:40.273> the<00:09:40.435> companies<00:09:40.904> that<00:09:40.968> I<00:09:40.985> was<00:09:41.146> an<00:09:41.243> early<00:09:41.389> investor<00:09:41.809> in,<00:09:41.906> stayed<00:09:42.213> very<00:09:42.375> close<00:09:42.698> to,<00:09:43.542> Jeff<00:09:43.943> and<00:09:44.023> then<00:09:44.184> Noah's<00:09:44.889> current<00:09:45.082> CEO's<00:09:45.483> mission<00:09:45.868> was,<00:09:46.574> how<00:09:46.670> do<00:09:46.750> you<00:09:47.151> enable<00:09:47.712> everyday<00:09:48.033> Americans<00:09:48.675> to<00:09:48.819> grow<00:09:49.012> their<00:09:49.156> wealth?

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Even<00:09:50.038> if<00:09:50.134> they're<00:09:50.263> not<00:09:50.375> sophisticated<00:09:51.225> in<00:09:51.321> finance,<00:09:51.963> even<00:09:52.139> if<00:09:52.267> they<00:09:52.364> don't<00:09:52.556> know<00:09:52.668> how<00:09:52.765> to<00:09:52.909> play<00:09:53.085> the<00:09:53.166> market,<00:09:53.968> they<00:09:54.064> still<00:09:54.449> should<00:09:54.673> be<00:09:55.251> benefiting<00:09:55.956> from<00:09:56.133> things<00:09:56.454> that<00:09:56.839> people<00:09:57.095> in<00:09:57.240> finance<00:09:57.817> or<00:09:57.897> more<00:09:58.042> sophisticated<00:09:58.779> investors<00:09:59.325> have.

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And<00:09:59.982> how<00:10:00.143> do<00:10:00.175> you<00:10:00.367> do<00:10:00.479> that<00:10:00.784> without<00:10:01.249> them<00:10:01.346> feeling<00:10:01.747> in<00:10:01.811> their<00:10:01.907> pocketbook?

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Because<00:10:02.885> if<00:10:03.014> they<00:10:03.078> have<00:10:03.286> to<00:10:03.816> save<00:10:04.072> for<00:10:04.233> vacation<00:10:04.874> or<00:10:04.954> save<00:10:05.275> for<00:10:05.420> something<00:10:05.820> in<00:10:05.901> the<00:10:05.997> future<00:10:06.478> in<00:10:06.558> a<00:10:06.574> market<00:10:07.039> that's<00:10:07.200> very<00:10:07.906> murky,<00:10:08.804> they're<00:10:08.916> going<00:10:09.125> to<00:10:09.285> save<00:10:09.526> for<00:10:09.606> the<00:10:09.670> vacation.

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So,<00:10:10.311> how<00:10:10.472> do<00:10:10.504> you<00:10:10.632> get<00:10:10.728> people<00:10:11.274> to<00:10:11.370> create<00:10:12.077> new<00:10:12.254> behavior<00:10:13.290> simply,<00:10:14.260> painlessly,<00:10:14.843> that<00:10:14.940> will<00:10:15.069> actually<00:10:15.409> benefit<00:10:15.813> them<00:10:15.910> in<00:10:16.040> the<00:10:16.072> long<00:10:16.363> run.

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And<00:10:16.881> so,<00:10:18.142> that<00:10:18.304> was<00:10:18.417> very<00:10:18.628> exciting<00:10:19.032> to<00:10:19.129> me,<00:10:19.275> and<00:10:19.372> I<00:10:19.388> saw<00:10:19.614> a<00:10:19.679> huge<00:10:19.922> opportunity<00:10:20.423> for<00:10:20.472> that.

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And<00:10:20.747> they<00:10:20.908> built<00:10:21.151> a<00:10:21.200> tremendous<00:10:21.637> company<00:10:22.511> that<00:10:22.592> to<00:10:22.705> this<00:10:22.997> day<00:10:23.175> is<00:10:23.320> one<00:10:23.434> of<00:10:23.499> the<00:10:23.563> most<00:10:23.822> trusted<00:10:24.389> brands<00:10:25.587> in<00:10:25.846> the<00:10:25.927> financial<00:10:26.429> services<00:10:26.850> space.

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And<00:10:29.017> they<00:10:29.423> have<00:10:29.974> 6<00:10:30.298> million<00:10:31.190> active<00:10:32.811> users<00:10:33.152> on<00:10:33.298> their<00:10:33.379> platform<00:10:33.962> who<00:10:34.060> saved<00:10:34.530> and<00:10:34.676> grown<00:10:34.854> their<00:10:35.016> wealth<00:10:35.584> through<00:10:36.070> the<00:10:36.216> Acorns<00:10:36.557> platform.

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Mission<00:10:38.103> is<00:10:38.247> huge,<00:10:39.530> having<00:10:39.771> a<00:10:39.851> really<00:10:40.108> clear<00:10:40.412> vision,<00:10:41.455> how<00:10:41.631> technology<00:10:42.433> can<00:10:42.577> shape<00:10:42.994> or<00:10:43.058> accelerate<00:10:43.796> or<00:10:43.940> exponentially<00:10:44.662> change<00:10:45.384> the<00:10:45.480> way<00:10:46.522> what<00:10:46.683> an<00:10:46.843> outcome<00:10:47.228> can<00:10:47.324> look<00:10:47.501> like.

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And<00:10:48.351> then<00:10:48.527> brand.

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I<00:10:49.072> mean,<00:10:49.233> I<00:10:49.249> think<00:10:50.371> you<00:10:50.532> have<00:10:50.772> to<00:10:50.852> be<00:10:50.997> passionate<00:10:51.382> about<00:10:51.558> your<00:10:51.718> end<00:10:51.879> customer.

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That<00:10:52.745> has<00:10:52.937> to<00:10:53.033> be<00:10:53.258> in<00:10:53.338> your<00:10:53.579> DNA.

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It's<00:10:54.300> not<00:10:54.461> a<00:10:54.541> business<00:10:54.926> decision,<00:10:55.327> it's<00:10:55.407> just<00:10:55.583> how<00:10:55.808> you<00:10:55.872> have<00:10:56.064> to<00:10:56.209> be.

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And<00:10:57.011> that's<00:10:57.251> a<00:10:57.267> lot<00:10:57.524> of<00:10:57.652> what<00:10:57.748> I'm<00:10:57.893> assessing<00:10:58.775> because<00:10:59.031> there<00:10:59.111> are<00:10:59.176> a<00:10:59.192> lot<00:10:59.352> of<00:10:59.416> smart<00:10:59.673> people<00:11:00.058> who<00:11:00.154> can<00:11:00.314> put<00:11:00.475> something<00:11:00.779> on<00:11:00.875> a<00:11:00.956> whiteboard<00:11:01.998> and<00:11:02.078> try<00:11:02.319> to<00:11:02.399> make<00:11:02.656> a<00:11:02.720> successful<00:11:03.827> project<00:11:04.324> or<00:11:04.404> product<00:11:04.902> or<00:11:05.047> company<00:11:05.448> out<00:11:05.592> of<00:11:05.625> it<00:11:05.753> because<00:11:06.010> there's<00:11:06.170> a<00:11:06.234> space<00:11:06.652> and<00:11:06.716> there's<00:11:06.893> money<00:11:07.053> to<00:11:07.149> be<00:11:07.310> made.

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That's<00:11:08.273> not<00:11:08.402> interesting<00:11:08.739> for<00:11:08.899> me.

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What's<00:11:09.622> interesting<00:11:10.440> is<00:11:10.569> people<00:11:10.890> who<00:11:11.066> really<00:11:11.452> understand<00:11:11.949> their<00:11:12.094> end<00:11:12.190> user,<00:11:12.832> and<00:11:13.057> every<00:11:13.233> decision<00:11:13.699> they<00:11:13.795> make<00:11:14.742> is<00:11:14.919> going<00:11:15.160> to<00:11:15.304> be<00:11:15.866> how<00:11:16.043> do<00:11:16.123> they<00:11:16.364> benefit<00:11:16.829> that<00:11:16.990> end<00:11:17.086> user.

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And<00:11:17.792> I've<00:11:17.889> had,<00:11:18.495> I<00:11:18.515> think<00:11:18.627> I<00:11:18.659> have<00:11:18.707> 7<00:11:19.028> or<00:11:19.109> 8<00:11:19.253> unicorns<00:11:19.735> at<00:11:19.815> this<00:11:19.976> point<00:11:20.281> from<00:11:20.457> very<00:11:20.778> early<00:11:20.939> stages.

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Every<00:11:22.127> single<00:11:22.464> one<00:11:22.624> of<00:11:22.688> those<00:11:22.865> founders,<00:11:23.347> whether<00:11:23.475> it's<00:11:23.668> the<00:11:23.748> founder<00:11:24.149> of<00:11:24.294> Ro<00:11:24.711> or<00:11:24.791> Sweetgreen,<00:11:25.995> they<00:11:26.621> all<00:11:26.814> stuck<00:11:27.263> to<00:11:27.344> that<00:11:27.665> all<00:11:27.841> the<00:11:27.986> way<00:11:28.243> through<00:11:28.580> their<00:11:28.724> trajectory,<00:11:29.366> even<00:11:29.527> their<00:11:29.768> massive<00:11:30.153> companies.

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You<00:11:31.293> speak<00:11:31.534> to<00:11:31.630> those<00:11:31.855> founders,<00:11:32.193> they're<00:11:32.482> still<00:11:32.659> obsessed.

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How<00:11:33.783> are<00:11:33.864> people<00:11:34.346> liking<00:11:34.667> what<00:11:34.780> I'm<00:11:34.908> doing?

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How<00:11:35.246> are<00:11:35.390> we<00:11:35.551> innovating,<00:11:36.017> creating<00:11:36.338> a<00:11:36.354> better<00:11:36.595> experience?

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And<00:11:37.720> I<00:11:37.768> would<00:11:37.881> say<00:11:38.122> once<00:11:38.363> you<00:11:38.443> figure<00:11:38.829> out<00:11:38.989> you<00:11:39.086> believe<00:11:39.407> in<00:11:39.471> the<00:11:39.568> pain<00:11:39.809> point<00:11:40.034> and<00:11:40.082> mission,<00:11:40.840> the<00:11:40.872> next<00:11:41.113> most<00:11:41.290> important<00:11:41.741> thing<00:11:41.853> is,<00:11:41.950> does<00:11:42.079> that<00:11:42.320> founder<00:11:42.706> have<00:11:42.883> that<00:11:43.109> DNA?

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Well,<00:11:43.913> what's<00:11:44.090> remarkable<00:11:44.638> is<00:11:44.734> your<00:11:44.815> track<00:11:45.136> record.

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I<00:11:45.474> mean,<00:11:45.651> to<00:11:45.764> have<00:11:45.925> that<00:11:46.038> many<00:11:46.247> unicorns<00:11:46.891> is<00:11:47.229> unbelievable.

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That's<00:11:48.419> actually<00:11:48.983> remarkable.

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So<00:11:51.496> congratulations<00:11:52.287> there.

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So<00:11:53.111> you're<00:11:53.175> obviously<00:11:53.515> doing<00:11:53.741> something<00:11:54.145> right<00:11:54.726> to<00:11:54.871> be<00:11:55.033> able<00:11:55.291> to<00:11:56.406> get<00:11:56.648> on<00:11:56.745> the<00:11:56.810> early<00:11:57.068> stage<00:11:57.375> on<00:11:57.472> that<00:11:57.569> many<00:11:57.795> unicorns.

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That's<00:11:58.748> really<00:11:58.926> quite<00:11:59.087> impressive.

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What<00:12:00.015> did<00:12:00.143> you<00:12:00.224> learn<00:12:00.400> at<00:12:00.465> McKinsey<00:12:01.911> that<00:12:02.055> you've<00:12:02.232> taken<00:12:02.489> to<00:12:02.553> the<00:12:02.650> investment<00:12:03.116> world,<00:12:03.501> and<00:12:04.064> what<00:12:04.160> was<00:12:04.305> your<00:12:04.401> time<00:12:04.706> there<00:12:04.803> like?

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It<00:12:05.687> was<00:12:05.847> fascinating.

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I<00:12:06.426> mean,<00:12:06.635> you<00:12:06.731> can't<00:12:07.117> have<00:12:07.293> a<00:12:07.358> more<00:12:07.615> disparate<00:12:08.113> experience<00:12:08.723> from<00:12:09.687> being<00:12:09.864> in<00:12:09.896> the<00:12:09.961> music<00:12:10.266> business,<00:12:10.748> late<00:12:10.973> night<00:12:11.150> in<00:12:11.230> the<00:12:11.310> studio,<00:12:12.017> on<00:12:12.258> tour,<00:12:12.740> at<00:12:12.901> industry<00:12:13.303> parties,<00:12:13.801> very<00:12:13.977> social,<00:12:15.150> no<00:12:15.391> data<00:12:15.616> or<00:12:15.793> analytics,<00:12:16.773> very<00:12:17.014> little<00:12:17.175> finance,<00:12:18.926> all<00:12:19.007> the<00:12:19.103> way<00:12:19.264> to<00:12:19.424> instead<00:12:19.890> being<00:12:20.067> late<00:12:20.228> at<00:12:20.260> night<00:12:20.549> in<00:12:20.629> a<00:12:20.710> basement<00:12:21.336> trying<00:12:21.577> to<00:12:21.738> put<00:12:21.899> a<00:12:21.979> PowerPoint<00:12:22.477> presentation<00:12:23.200> or<00:12:23.281> spreadsheet<00:12:23.763> together.

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So,<00:12:24.582> it<00:12:24.694> was<00:12:24.887> trial<00:12:25.209> by<00:12:25.369> fire.

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It<00:12:26.558> was<00:12:26.654> an<00:12:26.735> incredible<00:12:27.120> experience.

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I<00:12:27.923> learned<00:12:28.164> a<00:12:28.180> ton.

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I<00:12:28.646> really<00:12:28.823> went<00:12:28.983> in<00:12:29.064> there<00:12:29.176> to<00:12:29.288> learn.

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I<00:12:30.268> think<00:12:30.445> there<00:12:30.605> are<00:12:30.654> a<00:12:30.670> couple<00:12:30.878> of<00:12:30.911> things.

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One,<00:12:32.115> first<00:12:32.276> of<00:12:32.356> all,<00:12:32.597> it's<00:12:33.063> unlike<00:12:33.480> what<00:12:33.641> I<00:12:33.721> heard<00:12:34.042> banking<00:12:34.990> and<00:12:35.151> other<00:12:35.568> very<00:12:35.873> hard-driving<00:12:37.255> cultures<00:12:37.592> are<00:12:37.720> like.

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It<00:12:38.443> was<00:12:38.604> very<00:12:38.716> non-hierarchical.

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You<00:12:39.744> could<00:12:39.889> be<00:12:40.065> very<00:12:40.370> junior<00:12:40.708> there<00:12:41.029> and<00:12:41.093> have<00:12:41.206> enormous<00:12:41.752> responsibility,<00:12:42.780> very<00:12:43.037> well<00:12:43.181> respected.

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You<00:12:44.482> feel<00:12:44.659> free<00:12:44.884> to<00:12:45.028> call<00:12:45.205> on<00:12:45.365> partners<00:12:45.831> for<00:12:45.928> advice<00:12:46.345> or<00:12:46.474> for<00:12:46.570> guidance.

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And<00:12:47.614> so,<00:12:48.417> I<00:12:48.562> thought<00:12:48.722> the<00:12:48.819> culture,<00:12:49.236> especially<00:12:49.606> at<00:12:49.702> that<00:12:49.862> time<00:12:50.103> that<00:12:50.264> they<00:12:50.489> created,<00:12:51.228> was<00:12:51.613> A+.

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They<00:12:52.592> did<00:12:52.689> an<00:12:52.753> incredible<00:12:53.458> job<00:12:53.651> of<00:12:53.779> curating<00:12:54.180> the<00:12:54.260> people<00:12:54.533> there.

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It<00:12:55.222> was<00:12:55.383> very<00:12:55.559> collaborative.

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You<00:12:56.521> worked<00:12:56.746> hard.

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I<00:12:57.018> mean,<00:12:57.243> there's<00:12:57.403> no<00:12:57.564> question,<00:12:57.964> very<00:12:58.189> high<00:12:58.285> expectations,<00:12:59.568> but<00:13:00.129> it<00:13:00.210> was<00:13:00.370> very<00:13:00.627> much<00:13:00.995> everyone<00:13:01.252> was<00:13:01.412> in<00:13:01.476> the<00:13:01.557> trenches<00:13:01.909> together.

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And<00:13:02.920> I<00:13:02.936> learned<00:13:03.641> a<00:13:04.363> lot<00:13:04.491> from<00:13:04.636> that,<00:13:05.004> and<00:13:05.117> I<00:13:05.245> try<00:13:05.341> to<00:13:05.486> carry<00:13:05.742> that<00:13:05.967> through.

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The<00:13:06.929> second<00:13:07.346> thing<00:13:07.570> is<00:13:08.372> you're<00:13:08.548> there,<00:13:09.414> you're<00:13:09.511> smart,<00:13:10.473> there's<00:13:10.713> a<00:13:10.729> way<00:13:10.874> to<00:13:10.938> figure<00:13:11.900> it<00:13:12.060> out.

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Part<00:13:13.696> of<00:13:13.760> that<00:13:13.840> responsibility<00:13:14.562> they<00:13:14.787> gave<00:13:15.043> is<00:13:15.123> they<00:13:15.204> said<00:13:15.428> there's<00:13:15.669> no<00:13:16.230> exact<00:13:16.711> answer<00:13:17.032> yet.

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It's<00:13:18.170> up<00:13:18.315> to<00:13:18.475> you<00:13:18.812> to<00:13:18.956> have<00:13:19.132> judgment,<00:13:19.934> to<00:13:20.079> understand<00:13:20.560> how<00:13:20.656> to<00:13:20.800> go<00:13:21.041> through<00:13:21.201> data,<00:13:21.618> collect<00:13:21.955> information,<00:13:23.286> and<00:13:23.383> get<00:13:23.559> an<00:13:23.623> understanding<00:13:24.410> and<00:13:24.507> then<00:13:24.651> start<00:13:24.988> to<00:13:25.133> create<00:13:25.294> hypotheses<00:13:26.032> and<00:13:26.113> start<00:13:26.418> to<00:13:26.514> test<00:13:26.819> them.

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And<00:13:27.638> that's<00:13:28.377> a<00:13:28.441> huge<00:13:28.826> thing.

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I<00:13:29.067> think<00:13:29.244> founders<00:13:29.565> have<00:13:29.726> to<00:13:29.870> do<00:13:29.983> that,<00:13:30.593> and<00:13:30.673> I<00:13:30.754> can<00:13:30.930> empathize<00:13:31.412> with<00:13:31.556> them.

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If<00:13:32.359> you<00:13:32.408> don't<00:13:32.504> have<00:13:32.616> an<00:13:32.697> answer<00:13:33.162> and<00:13:33.259> you<00:13:33.291> don't<00:13:33.419> even<00:13:33.564> know<00:13:33.660> where<00:13:33.805> to<00:13:33.837> start,<00:13:34.463> you<00:13:34.543> got<00:13:34.688> to<00:13:34.720> start<00:13:35.041> somewhere<00:13:35.651> and<00:13:35.908> build<00:13:36.535> your<00:13:37.916> thesis<00:13:38.398> from<00:13:38.558> that<00:13:38.879> and<00:13:38.960> build<00:13:39.217> your<00:13:39.361> plan<00:13:39.666> from<00:13:39.843> that.

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And<00:13:40.646> to<00:13:40.790> give<00:13:40.951> you<00:13:41.047> that<00:13:41.144> confidence<00:13:41.995> and<00:13:42.091> the<00:13:42.171> skill<00:13:42.493> set<00:13:43.135> to<00:13:43.295> try<00:13:43.536> that,<00:13:43.858> and<00:13:43.954> if<00:13:44.034> it's<00:13:44.179> not<00:13:44.404> working,<00:13:44.821> how<00:13:44.982> to<00:13:45.142> pivot<00:13:45.785> and<00:13:45.865> be<00:13:46.009> comfortable<00:13:46.571> with<00:13:46.668> that<00:13:47.246> is<00:13:47.374> a<00:13:47.535> very<00:13:47.872> rare<00:13:48.049> environment.

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It<00:13:49.077> was<00:13:49.639> less<00:13:49.880> about<00:13:49.976> making<00:13:50.281> mistakes<00:13:50.763> and<00:13:50.843> other<00:13:51.004> people<00:13:51.309> who'd<00:13:51.469> oversee<00:13:51.807> what<00:13:51.951> you're<00:13:52.048> doing.

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So<00:13:52.594> you're<00:13:52.674> not<00:13:52.802> going<00:13:52.931> to<00:13:53.893> jump<00:13:54.133> into,<00:13:54.839> hit<00:13:54.999> a<00:13:55.079> wall<00:13:55.752> or<00:13:55.816> jump<00:13:56.057> off<00:13:56.217> a<00:13:56.281> cliff<00:13:56.474> or<00:13:56.538> something,<00:13:57.419> but<00:13:57.900> they<00:13:58.125> wanted<00:13:58.461> you<00:13:58.622> to<00:13:58.702> explore<00:13:59.103> things<00:13:59.295> because<00:13:59.487> you<00:13:59.648> also<00:13:59.888> may<00:14:00.128> connect<00:14:00.465> dots<00:14:00.866> and<00:14:00.946> get<00:14:01.106> insights<00:14:01.507> that<00:14:01.651> no<00:14:01.731> one<00:14:01.892> else<00:14:01.988> had<00:14:02.148> thought<00:14:02.389> of,<00:14:02.485> and<00:14:02.613> they<00:14:02.693> wanted<00:14:02.950> to<00:14:03.030> give<00:14:03.206> you<00:14:03.334> the<00:14:03.414> creative<00:14:03.815> room<00:14:03.976> to<00:14:04.072> do<00:14:04.232> that.

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So,<00:14:05.017> I<00:14:05.098> learned<00:14:05.290> a<00:14:05.354> ton<00:14:05.594> from<00:14:05.755> that.

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And<00:14:06.540> then<00:14:06.636> the<00:14:06.701> hard<00:14:06.893> skills<00:14:07.358> were<00:14:07.678> incredible.

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I<00:14:08.255> mean,<00:14:08.368> it<00:14:08.416> was<00:14:08.624> like<00:14:08.784> I<00:14:08.800> said,<00:14:09.105> trial<00:14:09.361> by<00:14:09.522> fire,<00:14:09.906> but<00:14:10.067> learning<00:14:10.307> how<00:14:10.403> to<00:14:10.484> ingest<00:14:10.916> data,<00:14:11.541> think<00:14:11.830> through<00:14:12.006> data,<00:14:12.311> have<00:14:12.487> a<00:14:12.551> thesis,<00:14:12.968> but<00:14:13.112> then<00:14:13.289> back<00:14:13.545> it<00:14:13.673> up.

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That's<00:14:14.427> still<00:14:14.651> very<00:14:14.812> much<00:14:15.052> how<00:14:15.196> we<00:14:15.292> operate<00:14:15.613> today<00:14:15.853> at<00:14:15.934> Torch<00:14:16.318> at<00:14:16.815> the<00:14:16.895> venture<00:14:17.200> fund.

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You're<00:14:17.761> also<00:14:18.001> on<00:14:18.098> the<00:14:18.258> Council<00:14:18.819> of<00:14:18.899> Foreign<00:14:19.284> Relations.

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It's<00:14:20.586> incredible.

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What<00:14:23.080> an<00:14:23.177> interesting<00:14:23.646> time<00:14:23.986> to<00:14:24.067> actually<00:14:24.958> be<00:14:25.185> on<00:14:25.347> that<00:14:25.525> council<00:14:26.075> too,<00:14:26.254> by<00:14:26.415> the<00:14:26.496> way,<00:14:26.658> with<00:14:26.885> all<00:14:26.917> the<00:14:27.063> tariffs<00:14:27.387> and<00:14:27.468> everything.

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What<00:14:28.254> have<00:14:28.303> you<00:14:28.384> learned<00:14:28.627> from<00:14:28.789> that?

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And<00:14:29.987> give<00:14:30.100> us<00:14:30.246> a<00:14:30.311> sense,<00:14:30.570> like,<00:14:30.877> where<00:14:30.958> are<00:14:31.056> we<00:14:31.217> at<00:14:31.379> right<00:14:31.622> now<00:14:33.306> in<00:14:33.468> foreign<00:14:33.873> relations<00:14:34.602> as<00:14:35.411> compared<00:14:35.670> to<00:14:35.703> the<00:14:35.751> United<00:14:36.075> States<00:14:36.383> and<00:14:36.448> everybody<00:14:36.641> else?

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I<00:14:37.511> think<00:14:37.849> we're—<00:14:38.735> well,<00:14:38.799> I<00:14:38.896> don't<00:14:39.041> think<00:14:39.202> anyone<00:14:39.412> knows<00:14:39.556> exactly<00:14:40.008> where<00:14:40.169> we<00:14:40.346> are<00:14:40.652> with<00:14:40.829> that.

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I<00:14:42.118> think<00:14:42.762> the<00:14:42.907> way<00:14:43.084> things<00:14:43.310> are<00:14:43.342> being<00:14:43.552> done<00:14:43.809> is<00:14:43.906> different.

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Some<00:14:45.179> of<00:14:45.324> it<00:14:45.952> may<00:14:46.192> not<00:14:46.433> work,<00:14:47.410> some<00:14:47.635> of<00:14:47.779> it<00:14:48.516> may<00:14:48.741> work,<00:14:49.013> and<00:14:49.093> some<00:14:49.398> things<00:14:49.718> had<00:14:50.600> probably<00:14:50.985> deserved<00:14:51.305> to<00:14:51.401> be<00:14:51.481> shaken<00:14:51.866> up.

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I<00:14:53.068> think<00:14:53.164> what<00:14:53.325> I<00:14:53.405> learned<00:14:53.709> there,<00:14:54.270> and<00:14:54.446> it's<00:14:54.607> just<00:14:54.767> been<00:14:54.847> a<00:14:54.927> passion<00:14:55.344> of<00:14:55.408> mine,<00:14:55.665> it<00:14:55.729> doesn't<00:14:56.113> directly<00:14:56.594> correlate<00:14:57.011> to<00:14:57.155> my<00:14:57.315> day<00:14:57.492> job,<00:14:58.373> but<00:14:59.315> a<00:14:59.335> lot<00:14:59.495> of<00:14:59.575> interesting<00:14:59.976> macro<00:15:00.377> insights.

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But<00:15:01.563> what<00:15:01.659> the<00:15:01.739> council<00:15:02.621> provides<00:15:03.326> is<00:15:03.422> really<00:15:03.726> a<00:15:03.742> place<00:15:04.608> where<00:15:04.704> people<00:15:05.089> who<00:15:05.121> would<00:15:05.345> never<00:15:05.650> normally<00:15:05.970> talk<00:15:06.227> to<00:15:06.387> each<00:15:06.547> other<00:15:06.948> get<00:15:07.172> to<00:15:07.509> mix<00:15:07.830> and<00:15:07.910> mingle<00:15:08.391> and<00:15:08.551> discuss<00:15:08.951> topics<00:15:09.496> and<00:15:09.833> learn.

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So,<00:15:10.811> it's<00:15:11.115> people<00:15:11.420> from<00:15:11.532> the<00:15:11.596> private<00:15:11.933> sector,<00:15:12.317> but<00:15:12.558> people<00:15:12.798> from<00:15:12.958> the<00:15:13.039> public<00:15:13.375> sector,<00:15:14.241> from<00:15:14.770> the<00:15:14.882> government,<00:15:15.507> from<00:15:15.667> the<00:15:15.763> military,<00:15:16.805> from<00:15:16.981> national<00:15:17.302> security<00:15:17.847> institutions,<00:15:18.873> from<00:15:19.450> economists.

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And<00:15:21.197> that's<00:15:21.453> what's<00:15:21.678> interesting<00:15:22.094> to<00:15:22.175> get<00:15:22.399> all<00:15:22.559> these<00:15:22.720> different<00:15:22.960> perspectives<00:15:23.697> and<00:15:23.777> people<00:15:24.162> who<00:15:24.226> are<00:15:24.419> top<00:15:24.803> experts<00:15:25.220> in<00:15:25.300> their<00:15:25.380> fields,<00:15:26.326> but<00:15:26.486> on<00:15:26.582> your<00:15:26.743> day-to-day<00:15:27.384> role,<00:15:27.704> you<00:15:27.785> would<00:15:27.929> never<00:15:28.249> get<00:15:28.426> to<00:15:28.570> cross<00:15:28.810> paths<00:15:29.051> with<00:15:29.147> them.

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And<00:15:29.852> to<00:15:29.932> hear<00:15:30.189> their<00:15:30.285> interpretations<00:15:31.166> of<00:15:31.311> things<00:15:31.711> or<00:15:31.792> their<00:15:31.952> insights,<00:15:32.833> that's<00:15:33.443> what<00:15:33.699> I<00:15:33.779> love<00:15:33.955> about<00:15:34.260> it.

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And<00:15:34.677> it's<00:15:34.853> nonpartisan.

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It's<00:15:35.735> not<00:15:35.879> about<00:15:35.975> politics<00:15:36.600> there.

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It's<00:15:37.385> really<00:15:37.626> about<00:15:38.283> policy<00:15:39.229> and<00:15:40.030> where<00:15:40.287> things<00:15:40.527> are<00:15:40.607> going<00:15:41.168> and<00:15:41.312> different<00:15:41.553> perspectives<00:15:42.050> on<00:15:42.194> that.

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I've<00:15:43.652> gained<00:15:43.877> a<00:15:43.909> lot<00:15:44.133> from<00:15:44.293> that.

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But<00:15:45.559> yeah,<00:15:45.815> we're<00:15:45.976> in<00:15:46.120> new<00:15:46.216> territory<00:15:46.857> with<00:15:46.953> this<00:15:47.113> administration<00:15:47.882> and<00:15:48.203> yeah,<00:15:48.459> I<00:15:49.084> don't<00:15:49.484> think<00:15:49.661> anyone<00:15:49.965> has<00:15:50.301> a<00:15:50.382> clear<00:15:50.638> understanding<00:15:51.727> of<00:15:51.824> where<00:15:52.128> things<00:15:52.368> end<00:15:52.528> up,<00:15:52.785> but<00:15:54.291> yeah,<00:15:54.788> very<00:15:55.188> interesting<00:15:55.589> times.

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Yeah.

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It's<00:15:56.694> wild.

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By<00:15:57.511> the<00:15:57.575> way,<00:15:57.672> I'm<00:15:57.832> just<00:15:57.992> realizing,<00:15:58.697> as<00:15:58.793> you're<00:15:58.873> talking,<00:15:59.114> I'm<00:15:59.258> like,<00:15:59.434> I<00:15:59.482> have<00:15:59.610> a<00:15:59.754> red<00:15:59.995> hat<00:16:00.379> on.

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This<00:16:00.796> is<00:16:00.940> University<00:16:01.597> of<00:16:01.741> Utah.

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I<00:16:02.799> just<00:16:02.959> want<00:16:03.103> to<00:16:03.183> be<00:16:03.359> clear.

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Red<00:16:04.865> hat<00:16:05.362> kind<00:16:05.586> of<00:16:05.667> stands<00:16:06.003> for<00:16:06.323> all<00:16:06.484> sorts<00:16:06.788> of<00:16:06.884> things<00:16:07.125> these<00:16:07.365> days.

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What<00:16:08.903> advice<00:16:09.207> would<00:16:09.368> you<00:16:09.512> give<00:16:09.768> to<00:16:10.153> aspiring<00:16:10.729> entrepreneurs<00:16:11.515> about<00:16:12.492> building<00:16:12.957> and<00:16:13.117> leading<00:16:13.454> mission-driven<00:16:14.175> companies?

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Because<00:16:14.816> it<00:16:14.897> does<00:16:15.057> seem<00:16:15.281> like<00:16:15.458> you<00:16:15.618> have<00:16:15.794> a<00:16:15.938> focus<00:16:16.500> and<00:16:16.644> really<00:16:16.900> a<00:16:16.916> talent<00:16:18.167> at<00:16:18.343> understanding<00:16:19.145> and<00:16:19.305> finding<00:16:20.026> entrepreneurs<00:16:21.052> and<00:16:21.148> startups<00:16:21.773> that<00:16:21.870> are<00:16:21.934> mission-driven.

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What<00:16:23.328> advice<00:16:23.713> would<00:16:23.809> you<00:16:23.938> have<00:16:24.114> for<00:16:24.274> those<00:16:24.659> who<00:16:25.396> want<00:16:25.525> to<00:16:25.573> start<00:16:25.797> a<00:16:25.877> company<00:16:26.134> like<00:16:26.358> that?

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The<00:16:26.983> first<00:16:27.320> thing<00:16:27.624> is<00:16:28.105> make<00:16:28.266> sure<00:16:28.602> your<00:16:28.763> mission<00:16:29.468> is<00:16:29.644> a<00:16:29.724> big<00:16:29.901> enough<00:16:30.125> mission.

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There<00:16:31.904> are<00:16:31.953> a<00:16:31.969> lot<00:16:32.193> of<00:16:32.273> people<00:16:32.546> who<00:16:32.578> have<00:16:32.690> great<00:16:32.914> ideas<00:16:33.636> if<00:16:33.828> you<00:16:33.956> want<00:16:34.036> to<00:16:34.117> create<00:16:34.293> a<00:16:34.309> big<00:16:34.453> company,<00:16:34.934> and<00:16:35.014> if<00:16:35.094> it's<00:16:35.239> venture-backable,<00:16:35.976> we<00:16:36.120> generally<00:16:36.409> don't<00:16:36.617> do<00:16:36.842> things<00:16:37.098> unless<00:16:37.419> we<00:16:37.579> think<00:16:37.739> there<00:16:37.884> could<00:16:37.980> be<00:16:38.076> a<00:16:38.140> big<00:16:38.365> outcome.

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And<00:16:39.086> create<00:16:39.343> big<00:16:39.503> impact.

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Make<00:16:41.364> sure<00:16:41.573> it's<00:16:41.653> a<00:16:41.733> big<00:16:41.893> enough<00:16:41.990> mission,<00:16:42.311> make<00:16:42.407> sure<00:16:42.535> you're<00:16:42.631> thinking<00:16:42.952> big<00:16:43.177> enough,<00:16:43.433> and<00:16:43.514> make<00:16:43.610> sure<00:16:43.834> you're<00:16:44.027> really<00:16:44.396> thinking<00:16:44.797> through<00:16:45.743> multiple<00:16:46.321> layers<00:16:46.722> in<00:16:46.866> the<00:16:46.963> future<00:16:47.508> of<00:16:47.765> where<00:16:48.005> technology<00:16:48.583> is<00:16:48.727> going,<00:16:49.449> where<00:16:49.674> customer<00:16:50.155> behavior<00:16:50.508> is<00:16:50.668> going,<00:16:51.534> where<00:16:51.711> those<00:16:52.000> things<00:16:52.320> meet<00:16:52.641> down<00:16:52.882> the<00:16:53.042> road,<00:16:54.245> and<00:16:54.342> what<00:16:54.566> things<00:16:54.759> it<00:16:54.823> could<00:16:55.048> unlock.

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And<00:16:55.850> generally,<00:16:57.213> you<00:16:57.309> want<00:16:57.438> to<00:16:57.550> launch<00:16:57.855> with<00:16:58.015> one<00:16:58.256> wedge<00:16:58.593> or<00:16:58.673> one<00:16:58.994> very<00:16:59.395> focused<00:17:00.020> element<00:17:00.277> of<00:17:00.437> it,<00:17:00.919> but<00:17:01.079> you<00:17:01.175> need<00:17:01.384> to<00:17:01.464> have<00:17:01.801> where<00:17:02.042> that<00:17:02.202> fits<00:17:02.507> into<00:17:02.683> a<00:17:02.763> bigger<00:17:03.084> vision<00:17:03.325> to<00:17:03.469> create<00:17:04.432> a<00:17:04.512> major<00:17:04.833> impactful<00:17:05.330> company.

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The<00:17:07.238> second<00:17:07.559> thing<00:17:07.736> is<00:17:07.880> you<00:17:07.960> need<00:17:08.072> to<00:17:08.201> win<00:17:08.297> that<00:17:08.522> wedge.

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So,<00:17:09.725> you<00:17:09.773> need<00:17:09.901> to<00:17:09.982> think<00:17:10.286> big,<00:17:10.527> have<00:17:10.639> a<00:17:10.768> big<00:17:10.944> mission,<00:17:11.345> but<00:17:11.490> you<00:17:11.538> need<00:17:11.666> to<00:17:11.730> start<00:17:12.147> at<00:17:12.292> a<00:17:12.468> very<00:17:12.789> focused<00:17:13.270> point.

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And<00:17:14.217> I<00:17:14.233> think<00:17:14.538> a<00:17:14.618> lot<00:17:14.939> of<00:17:15.581> entrepreneurs<00:17:16.142> try<00:17:16.319> to<00:17:16.399> do<00:17:16.623> too<00:17:16.800> much<00:17:17.024> too<00:17:17.137> soon,<00:17:17.987> and<00:17:18.067> you've<00:17:18.228> got<00:17:18.404> to<00:17:18.565> win<00:17:18.725> your<00:17:18.885> first<00:17:19.271> step<00:17:19.527> to<00:17:19.688> earn<00:17:19.912> the<00:17:19.992> right<00:17:20.329> to<00:17:20.474> win<00:17:20.634> the<00:17:20.666> second<00:17:21.035> step.

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And<00:17:21.853> that<00:17:22.094> focus<00:17:22.591> is<00:17:22.736> what<00:17:22.880> always<00:17:23.137> wins.

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We're<00:17:23.859> an<00:17:24.019> early-stage<00:17:24.581> fund.

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We<00:17:24.918> focus<00:17:25.367> on<00:17:25.463> early<00:17:25.640> stage.

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We<00:17:26.105> keep<00:17:26.329> our<00:17:26.362> fund<00:17:26.650> sizes<00:17:27.051> small.

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The<00:17:28.014> team<00:17:28.271> knows<00:17:28.511> exactly<00:17:29.057> what<00:17:29.153> we<00:17:29.249> stand<00:17:29.618> for<00:17:30.420> and<00:17:30.597> what<00:17:30.822> makes<00:17:30.998> sense<00:17:31.303> for<00:17:31.383> us.

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And<00:17:32.749> that's<00:17:32.990> how<00:17:33.070> we<00:17:33.167> become<00:17:33.472> best<00:17:33.713> in<00:17:33.809> class.

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And<00:17:34.307> I<00:17:34.516> think<00:17:36.122> founders,<00:17:36.942> it's<00:17:37.970> either<00:17:39.014> early<00:17:39.191> success<00:17:39.753> and<00:17:39.834> they<00:17:39.994> think<00:17:40.139> they<00:17:40.219> can<00:17:40.380> do<00:17:40.492> it<00:17:40.621> all<00:17:40.781> very<00:17:40.958> quickly<00:17:41.424> and<00:17:41.504> it's<00:17:41.665> not.

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You<00:17:41.986> really<00:17:42.227> got<00:17:42.324> to<00:17:42.950> own<00:17:43.111> what<00:17:43.207> you<00:17:43.304> do.

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Or<00:17:45.440> if<00:17:45.553> it's<00:17:45.697> not<00:17:45.922> working,<00:17:46.725> it's<00:17:46.982> not<00:17:47.207> the<00:17:47.304> end<00:17:47.384> of<00:17:47.448> the<00:17:47.545> world.

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You<00:17:48.332> can<00:17:48.428> pivot.

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And<00:17:48.910> I<00:17:48.991> think<00:17:49.312> almost<00:17:49.714> every<00:17:50.019> unicorn<00:17:50.436> I've<00:17:50.517> been<00:17:50.661> part<00:17:50.918> of,<00:17:51.545> the<00:17:51.625> first<00:17:51.963> thing<00:17:52.123> they<00:17:52.204> came<00:17:52.445> out<00:17:52.605> of<00:17:52.653> the<00:17:52.750> gate<00:17:52.943> with<00:17:54.276> wasn't<00:17:54.597> the<00:17:54.694> thing<00:17:54.919> that<00:17:55.095> ended<00:17:55.224> up<00:17:55.320> being<00:17:55.481> their<00:17:55.561> main<00:17:55.754> success.

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It<00:17:56.445> was<00:17:56.686> adjacent<00:17:57.184> to<00:17:57.344> it.

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They<00:17:58.308> got<00:17:58.533> an<00:17:58.630> insight,<00:17:59.080> because<00:17:59.737> what<00:17:59.833> they<00:17:59.977> were<00:18:00.073> doing<00:18:00.378> wasn't<00:18:00.698> working,<00:18:01.516> but<00:18:01.660> the<00:18:01.740> solution<00:18:02.637> to<00:18:02.734> that<00:18:02.958> insight<00:18:03.503> is<00:18:03.663> what<00:18:03.839> the<00:18:03.984> big<00:18:04.384> result<00:18:04.721> was.

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But<00:18:05.538> the<00:18:05.666> big<00:18:05.843> mission<00:18:06.099> was<00:18:06.308> the<00:18:06.340> same.

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Compass,<00:18:07.750> at<00:18:07.830> first<00:18:08.071> they<00:18:08.167> thought,<00:18:08.231> well,<00:18:08.423> maybe<00:18:08.728> tech<00:18:08.952> should<00:18:09.273> disrupt<00:18:10.715> real<00:18:10.827> estate<00:18:11.035> agents.

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Then<00:18:11.949> they<00:18:12.077> realized<00:18:12.414> people<00:18:12.959> really<00:18:13.215> like<00:18:13.391> their<00:18:13.520> real<00:18:13.632> estate<00:18:14.000> agents.

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So<00:18:14.738> then<00:18:14.898> they're<00:18:14.994> like,<00:18:15.283> okay,<00:18:15.539> maybe<00:18:15.859> tech<00:18:16.084> should<00:18:16.260> enhance<00:18:16.741> real<00:18:16.885> estate<00:18:17.206> agents.

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And<00:18:18.087> boom,<00:18:18.648> they're<00:18:18.760> a<00:18:18.808> multibillion-dollar<00:18:19.546> public<00:18:19.850> company.

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Yeah,<00:18:21.132> that's<00:18:21.469> incredible.

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I<00:18:23.616> just<00:18:24.354> have<00:18:24.450> to<00:18:24.530> go<00:18:24.610> back<00:18:24.770> to<00:18:24.818> this<00:18:24.995> real<00:18:25.155> quick.

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Given<00:18:25.556> your<00:18:26.101> remarkable<00:18:26.613> success<00:18:27.463> at<00:18:27.559> investing,<00:18:28.024> and<00:18:28.120> it<00:18:28.264> is<00:18:28.424> remarkable,<00:18:29.548> Um,<00:18:30.431> and<00:18:30.511> you<00:18:30.608> just<00:18:30.768> mentioned<00:18:31.074> you<00:18:31.170> try<00:18:31.331> to<00:18:31.411> keep<00:18:31.636> your<00:18:31.813> fund<00:18:32.070> size<00:18:32.455> low.

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Has<00:18:33.580> that<00:18:33.740> been<00:18:33.965> hard?

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Has<00:18:34.560> it<00:18:34.624> been<00:18:34.768> hard<00:18:35.026> to<00:18:35.074> not—<00:18:35.266> because<00:18:36.134> a<00:18:36.230> lot<00:18:36.536> of<00:18:36.937> VCs<00:18:37.499> would<00:18:37.596> be<00:18:37.756> tempted<00:18:38.238> to<00:18:38.399> grab<00:18:39.508> more<00:18:39.748> money<00:18:39.973> because<00:18:40.311> obviously<00:18:40.632> you're<00:18:40.728> making<00:18:41.034> that<00:18:41.194> 2<00:18:41.371> and<00:18:41.451> 20<00:18:42.238> management<00:18:42.640> fee,<00:18:42.881> all<00:18:42.977> that<00:18:43.138> type<00:18:43.379> of<00:18:43.411> stuff,<00:18:43.765> right?

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And<00:18:44.488> so<00:18:44.600> the<00:18:44.712> more<00:18:45.050> you<00:18:45.371> have<00:18:45.548> under<00:18:45.708> management,<00:18:46.206> the<00:18:46.287> more<00:18:46.447> you're<00:18:46.592> getting<00:18:46.833> on<00:18:46.913> the<00:18:47.074> fees<00:18:47.315> and<00:18:47.459> things<00:18:47.620> like<00:18:47.716> that.

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Has<00:18:48.439> it<00:18:48.488> been<00:18:48.664> hard<00:18:49.162> for<00:18:49.387> you<00:18:49.644> to<00:18:49.805> like<00:18:50.030> keep<00:18:50.287> that<00:18:50.447> fund<00:18:50.769> small?

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Well,<00:18:52.198> no,<00:18:52.536> it<00:18:52.616> hasn't.

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So<00:18:53.098> first<00:18:53.339> of<00:18:53.403> all,<00:18:53.484> yes,<00:18:53.741> you're<00:18:53.885> correct.

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A<00:18:54.464> lot<00:18:54.705> of<00:18:54.849> these,<00:18:55.186> as<00:18:55.331> I<00:18:55.668> keep<00:18:55.925> saying,<00:18:57.194> Just<00:18:57.435> because<00:18:57.757> you<00:18:57.901> could<00:18:58.223> doesn't<00:18:58.480> mean<00:18:58.640> you<00:18:58.721> should.

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And<00:19:00.150> I<00:19:00.247> watched<00:19:00.504> over<00:19:00.712> the<00:19:00.744> last<00:19:01.130> 5<00:19:01.355> years<00:19:01.451> since<00:19:01.756> I<00:19:01.773> got<00:19:01.997> in<00:19:02.078> this<00:19:02.238> industry<00:19:03.138> that<00:19:03.732> happened<00:19:04.889> for<00:19:05.210> a<00:19:05.306> huge<00:19:05.628> part<00:19:05.853> of<00:19:05.933> them.

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But<00:19:07.636> it<00:19:07.700> hasn't<00:19:08.005> been<00:19:08.102> that<00:19:08.198> hard<00:19:08.423> for<00:19:08.519> us.

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And<00:19:08.744> I<00:19:08.840> think<00:19:09.081> one<00:19:09.226> of<00:19:09.258> the<00:19:09.387> advantages<00:19:10.109> was<00:19:10.688> the<00:19:10.913> fact<00:19:11.170> that<00:19:11.266> I<00:19:11.395> didn't<00:19:11.635> come<00:19:11.812> from<00:19:11.973> venture.

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I<00:19:13.483> came<00:19:13.740> as<00:19:13.820> an<00:19:13.965> operator.

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And<00:19:14.977> so,<00:19:15.121> my<00:19:15.266> perspective<00:19:15.812> on<00:19:15.892> how<00:19:16.053> you<00:19:16.149> build<00:19:16.374> a<00:19:16.454> company,<00:19:16.792> back<00:19:17.033> to<00:19:17.113> what<00:19:17.258> I<00:19:17.338> just<00:19:17.499> said<00:19:17.659> on<00:19:17.836> focus,<00:19:19.041> we<00:19:19.201> did<00:19:19.362> the<00:19:19.426> same<00:19:19.764> thing.

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And<00:19:20.165> I<00:19:20.245> said,<00:19:20.486> look,<00:19:21.049> there's<00:19:21.209> not<00:19:21.450> enough<00:19:21.691> quality<00:19:22.173> companies<00:19:22.735> that<00:19:22.816> you<00:19:22.976> can<00:19:23.121> get<00:19:23.298> enough<00:19:23.603> ownership<00:19:24.085> in<00:19:24.422> to<00:19:24.583> turn<00:19:24.839> a<00:19:24.904> $500<00:19:25.546> million<00:19:26.028> early-stage<00:19:26.654> fund<00:19:27.136> and<00:19:27.232> be<00:19:27.393> true<00:19:27.698> to<00:19:27.794> that<00:19:28.051> stage.

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And<00:19:29.063> if<00:19:29.160> you<00:19:29.320> become<00:19:29.625> multistage,<00:19:30.605> then<00:19:30.685> all<00:19:30.846> of<00:19:30.910> a<00:19:30.926> sudden<00:19:31.151> you're<00:19:31.247> competing<00:19:31.665> with<00:19:31.809> the<00:19:31.890> most<00:19:32.211> famous,<00:19:33.014> most<00:19:33.480> broad-based,<00:19:34.058> resourceful<00:19:35.648> legacy<00:19:36.226> brands<00:19:36.611> out<00:19:36.788> there.

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And<00:19:37.575> so<00:19:38.619> for<00:19:38.892> us,<00:19:39.181> it<00:19:39.213> was<00:19:39.422> clear<00:19:39.759> this<00:19:40.000> is<00:19:40.080> what<00:19:40.241> we<00:19:40.321> do,<00:19:40.787> this<00:19:40.948> is<00:19:41.044> what<00:19:41.092> we're<00:19:41.204> going<00:19:41.317> to<00:19:41.365> be<00:19:41.526> best<00:19:41.911> at.

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And<00:19:42.570> so<00:19:43.597> our<00:19:43.710> mission<00:19:44.256> was<00:19:44.481> clear,<00:19:44.818> and<00:19:44.963> that<00:19:45.284> helped<00:19:45.846> to<00:19:45.942> protect<00:19:46.408> us,<00:19:46.601> especially<00:19:47.066> in<00:19:47.147> '21,<00:19:48.174> where<00:19:48.271> funds<00:19:48.576> got<00:19:48.753> way<00:19:48.977> above<00:19:49.218> their<00:19:49.315> skis<00:19:49.797> and<00:19:49.893> started<00:19:50.214> to<00:19:50.262> have<00:19:50.439> mission<00:19:50.760> creep.

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We<00:19:51.402> really<00:19:52.028> try<00:19:52.205> to<00:19:52.285> stick<00:19:52.526> to<00:19:52.622> our<00:19:52.703> knitting,<00:19:53.313> and<00:19:53.409> I<00:19:53.553> think<00:19:54.276> our<00:19:54.854> 21<00:19:55.255> Fund<00:19:55.496> right<00:19:55.720> now<00:19:55.913> is<00:19:56.122> a<00:19:56.363> top-decile<00:19:57.085> fund.

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It's<00:19:57.502> our<00:19:57.647> Fund<00:19:57.823> 2.

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I<00:19:58.931> think<00:19:59.043> a<00:19:59.091> lot<00:19:59.268> of<00:19:59.332> that's<00:19:59.509> because<00:19:59.830> we<00:19:59.926> slowed<00:20:00.311> down<00:20:00.632> when<00:20:00.777> everyone<00:20:01.034> else<00:20:01.178> was<00:20:01.339> speeding<00:20:01.660> up<00:20:02.077> and<00:20:02.222> valuations<00:20:02.880> got<00:20:03.426> crazy<00:20:04.068> and<00:20:04.886> things<00:20:05.127> that<00:20:05.272> we<00:20:05.432> didn't<00:20:05.609> understand<00:20:06.155> were<00:20:06.235> happening.

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So,<00:20:06.877> we<00:20:06.973> pulled<00:20:07.214> back,<00:20:07.936> and<00:20:08.017> then<00:20:08.161> once<00:20:08.418> things<00:20:08.739> kind<00:20:08.899> of<00:20:08.980> normalized<00:20:09.542> again,<00:20:09.943> we<00:20:10.103> redeployed.

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And<00:20:11.869> I<00:20:12.014> think<00:20:12.126> it's<00:20:12.270> important<00:20:13.057> to<00:20:13.169> know<00:20:13.378> what<00:20:13.474> you're<00:20:13.635> good<00:20:13.811> at<00:20:13.860> and<00:20:14.036> to<00:20:14.116> stick<00:20:14.357> to<00:20:14.454> that.

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How<00:20:15.176> do<00:20:15.240> you<00:20:15.385> think<00:20:15.545> about<00:20:15.802> balance,<00:20:16.508> balance<00:20:16.845> in<00:20:16.926> your<00:20:17.086> life?

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Because<00:20:17.712> that's<00:20:17.889> a<00:20:17.953> very<00:20:18.210> balanced<00:20:18.675> answer<00:20:19.077> from<00:20:19.317> a<00:20:19.478> professional<00:20:19.895> perspective<00:20:20.457> is<00:20:20.537> like,<00:20:20.762> just<00:20:20.939> because<00:20:21.180> you<00:20:21.324> can<00:20:21.581> doesn't<00:20:21.790> I<00:20:21.806> mean,<00:20:21.902> you<00:20:21.982> should.

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That's<00:20:22.850> great<00:20:23.107> advice<00:20:24.135> that<00:20:24.232> more<00:20:24.457> people<00:20:24.698> should<00:20:24.874> follow.

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But<00:20:25.822> how<00:20:25.855> do<00:20:25.983> you<00:20:26.080> balance<00:20:26.465> life<00:20:26.706> overall?

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Well,<00:20:27.927> as<00:20:28.072> Jack<00:20:28.329> used<00:20:28.554> to<00:20:28.634> say,<00:20:28.891> there's<00:20:29.132> no<00:20:29.293> such<00:20:29.614> thing<00:20:29.839> as<00:20:30.161> work-life<00:20:30.578> balance.

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There's<00:20:32.651> work-life<00:20:33.053> choices.

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He<00:20:33.937> would<00:20:34.017> talk<00:20:34.210> about<00:20:34.499> that<00:20:34.676> a<00:20:34.692> lot.

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And<00:20:35.736> just<00:20:35.961> to<00:20:36.122> think<00:20:36.363> that<00:20:36.523> you<00:20:36.668> can<00:20:36.829> balance—<00:20:37.407> you<00:20:37.568> do<00:20:37.712> what's<00:20:37.825> important<00:20:38.210> for<00:20:38.371> you,<00:20:38.612> but<00:20:38.773> there<00:20:38.934> is<00:20:39.014> going<00:20:39.158> to<00:20:39.191> be<00:20:39.335> a<00:20:39.416> price<00:20:39.721> to<00:20:39.801> pay.

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Meaning,<00:20:40.862> like,<00:20:41.119> someone<00:20:41.488> who's<00:20:41.601> not<00:20:41.745> balancing<00:20:42.227> and<00:20:42.308> is<00:20:42.388> working<00:20:42.645> 24/7<00:20:43.914> may<00:20:44.075> not<00:20:44.236> be<00:20:45.344> as<00:20:45.602> fulfilled<00:20:46.100> in<00:20:46.180> many<00:20:46.469> other<00:20:46.630> ways,<00:20:46.951> but<00:20:47.048> they'll<00:20:47.208> probably<00:20:47.674> have<00:20:48.958> more<00:20:49.297> potential<00:20:49.765> success.

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But<00:20:52.508> I<00:20:52.686> think<00:20:52.831> there's<00:20:53.089> a<00:20:53.105> short<00:20:53.557> run<00:20:53.718> on<00:20:53.815> that.

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I<00:20:54.138> mean,<00:20:54.767> look,<00:20:55.574> as<00:20:55.687> a<00:20:55.751> founder,<00:20:56.316> you<00:20:56.461> run<00:20:56.703> really<00:20:56.962> hard.

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All<00:20:57.446> founders<00:20:57.849> do,<00:20:58.010> whether<00:20:58.156> you're<00:20:58.431> a<00:20:58.496> founder<00:20:58.900> of<00:20:58.997> a<00:20:59.062> fund<00:20:59.483> or<00:20:59.564> founder<00:20:59.871> of<00:20:59.968> a<00:21:00.033> company.

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And<00:21:01.975> for<00:21:02.283> us,<00:21:02.946> and<00:21:03.044> I'm<00:21:03.173> used<00:21:03.335> to<00:21:03.416> this<00:21:03.497> from<00:21:03.659> being<00:21:03.772> a<00:21:03.821> manager,<00:21:04.565> things<00:21:04.808> are<00:21:04.889> always<00:21:05.132> happening.

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It's<00:21:05.779> just<00:21:06.006> not<00:21:06.184> what<00:21:06.345> you<00:21:06.491> plan.

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It's<00:21:07.417> also<00:21:07.676> what<00:21:07.821> your<00:21:07.918> companies<00:21:08.388> plan<00:21:08.728> and<00:21:08.793> what<00:21:08.955> doesn't<00:21:09.214> go<00:21:09.294> according<00:21:09.683> to<00:21:09.780> plan<00:21:10.185> impacts<00:21:10.654> you.

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It's<00:21:10.897> not<00:21:11.075> just<00:21:11.302> what<00:21:11.480> Torch<00:21:11.739> is<00:21:11.885> doing,<00:21:12.144> it's<00:21:12.289> what<00:21:12.403> our<00:21:12.516> portfolio<00:21:12.937> companies<00:21:13.358> are<00:21:13.422> doing.

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And<00:21:13.746> so,<00:21:14.727> I'm<00:21:14.984> very<00:21:15.225> much<00:21:15.546> like,<00:21:15.706> as<00:21:15.851> a<00:21:15.867> manager,<00:21:16.349> it's<00:21:16.573> 360.

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You're<00:21:17.392> there<00:21:17.633> 24/7<00:21:18.435> if<00:21:18.516> need<00:21:18.756> be.

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And<00:21:19.383> I<00:21:19.543> subscribe<00:21:20.041> to<00:21:20.137> that.

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I<00:21:20.458> think<00:21:20.683> our<00:21:20.779> success<00:21:21.774> has<00:21:21.951> been<00:21:22.689> being<00:21:22.930> there<00:21:23.171> through<00:21:23.332> good<00:21:23.492> and<00:21:23.637> bad<00:21:23.813> with<00:21:23.910> our<00:21:23.974> founders.

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But<00:21:24.600> there's<00:21:24.776> a<00:21:24.857> cost<00:21:25.162> to<00:21:25.258> that,<00:21:25.322> and<00:21:25.579> the<00:21:25.724> cost<00:21:26.125> is<00:21:26.221> time.

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There's<00:21:27.168> many<00:21:27.425> late-night<00:21:27.810> calls,<00:21:28.212> there's<00:21:28.372> many<00:21:28.774> weekends<00:21:29.191> working,<00:21:29.897> there's<00:21:30.138> many<00:21:30.395> fire<00:21:30.780> drills,<00:21:31.503> and<00:21:31.599> you<00:21:31.663> have<00:21:31.776> to<00:21:31.904> be<00:21:32.000> up<00:21:32.161> for<00:21:32.257> that,<00:21:32.562> I<00:21:32.642> think,<00:21:33.028> to<00:21:33.846> be<00:21:34.408> best<00:21:34.713> in<00:21:34.794> class<00:21:35.612> at<00:21:35.757> this<00:21:35.917> job.

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But<00:21:37.442> that<00:21:37.619> said,<00:21:38.422> now<00:21:38.662> that<00:21:38.743> we<00:21:38.903> have<00:21:39.609> a<00:21:39.626> 9-person<00:21:40.268> team<00:21:40.974> and<00:21:41.728> phenomenal<00:21:42.273> investors<00:21:42.835> who<00:21:43.139> I<00:21:43.236> think<00:21:43.412> our<00:21:43.556> culture<00:21:44.342> and<00:21:44.743> the<00:21:44.839> way<00:21:45.064> we<00:21:45.160> do<00:21:45.384> things<00:21:45.561> and<00:21:45.625> our<00:21:45.721> processes<00:21:46.427> has<00:21:46.587> really<00:21:47.966> been<00:21:48.111> spread<00:21:48.447> out<00:21:48.608> with<00:21:48.768> more<00:21:48.993> people<00:21:49.233> who<00:21:49.394> really<00:21:49.650> know<00:21:49.794> what<00:21:49.891> we're<00:21:50.035> doing.

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There's<00:21:50.853> a<00:21:50.933> little<00:21:51.174> bit<00:21:51.334> more<00:21:51.478> flexibility<00:21:52.136> and<00:21:52.296> control.

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And<00:21:53.659> here<00:21:53.884> and<00:21:54.285> there,<00:21:54.541> I'm<00:21:54.846> able<00:21:55.006> to<00:21:55.102> get<00:21:55.263> a<00:21:55.343> little<00:21:55.503> bit<00:21:55.728> more<00:21:55.984> balance<00:21:56.385> back.

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But<00:21:58.230> look,<00:21:58.630> to<00:21:59.657> win<00:21:59.833> is<00:21:59.978> really<00:22:00.154> tough.

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It's<00:22:00.571> a<00:22:00.651> very<00:22:00.876> competitive<00:22:01.357> world.

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And<00:22:02.319> I<00:22:02.543> think<00:22:03.265> being<00:22:03.425> honest<00:22:03.778> about<00:22:04.083> that<00:22:04.660> is<00:22:04.804> what's<00:22:04.981> important<00:22:05.350> to<00:22:05.831> you.

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And<00:22:06.552> there<00:22:06.713> are<00:22:06.873> ways<00:22:07.050> to<00:22:07.146> balance,<00:22:07.531> but<00:22:08.076> You<00:22:08.156> just<00:22:08.252> have<00:22:08.477> to<00:22:08.798> think<00:22:09.038> very<00:22:09.215> carefully<00:22:10.177> where<00:22:10.722> and<00:22:10.883> when<00:22:11.075> are<00:22:11.220> you<00:22:11.460> emphasizing<00:22:12.102> what<00:22:12.262> part<00:22:12.438> of<00:22:12.567> your<00:22:12.647> life.

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What<00:22:13.337> does<00:22:13.465> a<00:22:13.545> typical<00:22:13.946> day<00:22:14.171> look<00:22:14.331> like<00:22:14.572> for<00:22:14.668> you?

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Wow.

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It's<00:22:18.196> one<00:22:18.293> of<00:22:18.325> the<00:22:18.357> things<00:22:18.517> I<00:22:18.581> like<00:22:18.774> about<00:22:18.998> venture<00:22:19.624> and<00:22:19.768> having<00:22:20.025> a<00:22:20.105> portfolio<00:22:20.602> of<00:22:20.747> companies<00:22:21.244> is<00:22:21.629> no<00:22:21.805> day<00:22:21.982> is<00:22:22.126> the<00:22:22.190> same.

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It<00:22:22.623> is<00:22:22.832> never<00:22:23.088> boring.

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There's<00:22:24.291> all<00:22:24.387> sorts<00:22:24.692> of<00:22:24.772> things<00:22:24.997> happening<00:22:25.398> all<00:22:25.494> at<00:22:25.574> once.

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I'm<00:22:27.274> not<00:22:27.499> a<00:22:27.515> morning<00:22:27.820> person,<00:22:28.221> so<00:22:28.942> I<00:22:29.327> admire<00:22:29.921> incredibly<00:22:30.546> CEOs,<00:22:31.188> investors<00:22:31.669> who<00:22:31.749> are<00:22:31.813> like,<00:22:31.990> I<00:22:32.070> get<00:22:32.246> up<00:22:32.391> at<00:22:32.455> 5<00:22:32.936> and<00:22:33.016> I<00:22:33.112> work<00:22:33.417> out<00:22:33.658> and<00:22:33.738> then<00:22:33.834> I<00:22:34.620> go<00:22:34.732> through<00:22:34.941> all<00:22:35.037> the<00:22:35.117> news<00:22:35.615> and<00:22:35.743> then<00:22:35.839> I<00:22:35.855> start<00:22:36.144> my<00:22:36.240> calls.

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I'm<00:22:36.994> not<00:22:37.186> like<00:22:37.379> that.

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I'm<00:22:37.764> more<00:22:37.860> of<00:22:37.924> a<00:22:38.069> late-night<00:22:38.390> person,<00:22:38.871> maybe<00:22:39.112> coming<00:22:39.352> from<00:22:39.449> my<00:22:39.529> music<00:22:40.331> late-night<00:22:40.716> roots.

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So<00:22:42.481> I<00:22:43.925> wake<00:22:44.246> up.

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I<00:22:44.583> know<00:22:44.743> they<00:22:44.824> say<00:22:44.968> you're<00:22:45.048> not<00:22:45.161> supposed<00:22:45.449> to<00:22:45.610> do<00:22:45.706> this,<00:22:45.947> so<00:22:46.252> I<00:22:46.412> don't<00:22:46.909> recommend<00:22:47.375> this,<00:22:47.551> but<00:22:47.776> the<00:22:47.856> second<00:22:48.193> my<00:22:48.337> eyes<00:22:48.514> open,<00:22:49.059> I'm<00:22:49.781> trying<00:22:49.958> to<00:22:50.038> get<00:22:50.584> out<00:22:50.744> my<00:22:50.824> most<00:22:51.097> important<00:22:51.498> emails<00:22:51.819> or<00:22:51.947> what's<00:22:52.188> top<00:22:52.381> of<00:22:52.429> mind<00:22:53.247> after<00:22:54.210> waking<00:22:54.531> up.

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I<00:22:54.707> try<00:22:54.932> not<00:22:55.092> to<00:22:55.156> schedule<00:22:55.493> meetings<00:22:55.814> too<00:22:55.975> early<00:22:56.600> so<00:22:56.681> I<00:22:56.777> can<00:22:56.921> really<00:22:57.162> push<00:22:57.403> out<00:22:57.964> the<00:22:58.141> things<00:22:58.365> that<00:22:58.445> I<00:22:58.462> need<00:22:58.622> to<00:22:58.702> push<00:22:58.943> out.

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And<00:22:59.890> then<00:23:00.146> my<00:23:00.242> meetings<00:23:00.499> start<00:23:00.932> and<00:23:00.981> I'm<00:23:01.093> sort<00:23:01.285> of<00:23:01.991> a<00:23:02.072> little<00:23:02.296> bit<00:23:02.392> of<00:23:02.473> a<00:23:02.489> slave<00:23:02.874> to<00:23:02.954> the<00:23:03.034> calendar,<00:23:03.676> but<00:23:03.820> I<00:23:03.901> really<00:23:04.157> try<00:23:04.398> to<00:23:04.623> assess<00:23:05.024> every<00:23:05.200> day<00:23:05.650> what's<00:23:06.150> important<00:23:06.590> and<00:23:06.970> what's<00:23:07.210> urgent<00:23:07.530> and<00:23:07.750> what's<00:23:07.950> urgent<00:23:08.250> and<00:23:08.410> important.

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And<00:23:08.950> that<00:23:09.090> can<00:23:09.250> eclipse<00:23:09.570> the<00:23:09.770> calendar.

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And<00:23:11.070> I'm<00:23:12.050> constantly<00:23:12.530> just<00:23:12.790> trying<00:23:12.910> to<00:23:13.010> prioritize,<00:23:13.510> and<00:23:13.710> my<00:23:13.870> team<00:23:14.110> helps<00:23:14.310> me<00:23:14.530> do<00:23:14.670> that.

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But<00:23:15.510> that's<00:23:15.750> really<00:23:15.970> critical<00:23:16.390> because<00:23:16.530> you<00:23:16.710> can<00:23:16.870> get<00:23:17.190> sucked<00:23:17.430> under<00:23:17.850> and<00:23:18.550> you<00:23:18.890> can<00:23:19.070> just<00:23:19.330> get<00:23:19.670> doing<00:23:20.330> all<00:23:20.550> the<00:23:20.650> things<00:23:20.830> you're<00:23:21.010> supposed<00:23:21.170> to<00:23:21.290> be<00:23:21.450> doing,<00:23:21.810> but<00:23:22.170> you<00:23:22.330> maybe<00:23:22.590> won't<00:23:22.930> be<00:23:23.110> able<00:23:23.190> to<00:23:23.310> do<00:23:23.430> the<00:23:23.630> things<00:23:23.750> that<00:23:23.930> will<00:23:24.050> actually<00:23:24.290> enable<00:23:24.570> you<00:23:24.730> to<00:23:24.830> break<00:23:25.110> out.

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And<00:23:25.710> that's<00:23:25.890> something<00:23:26.190> I'm<00:23:26.350> very<00:23:26.530> cognizant<00:23:26.970> of,<00:23:27.250> and<00:23:27.350> I've<00:23:27.490> had<00:23:27.670> to<00:23:27.870> learn<00:23:27.970> to<00:23:28.090> get<00:23:28.210> much<00:23:28.410> better<00:23:28.650> about<00:23:28.870> that.

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What<00:23:29.570> do<00:23:29.710> you<00:23:29.810> read<00:23:30.230> and<00:23:30.610> what<00:23:30.870> reading<00:23:31.150> recommendations<00:23:31.670> would<00:23:31.930> you<00:23:32.070> have<00:23:32.190> for<00:23:32.370> us?

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Wow.

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I<00:23:33.390> read<00:23:33.950> a<00:23:34.050> lot<00:23:34.170> of<00:23:34.290> nonfiction,<00:23:34.830> less<00:23:35.630> about<00:23:35.650> business.

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I<00:23:35.690> think<00:23:35.710> a<00:23:35.730> lot<00:23:35.750> of<00:23:35.770> the<00:23:35.790> business<00:23:37.550> most<00:23:37.711> insights<00:23:37.985> I<00:23:38.130> get<00:23:38.629> are<00:23:38.710> from<00:23:39.274> Twitter<00:23:39.918> and<00:23:40.080> podcasts.

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But<00:23:41.530> reading<00:23:41.917> has<00:23:42.094> been<00:23:42.416> a<00:23:42.481> lot<00:23:42.658> of<00:23:42.755> historical<00:23:43.399> nonfiction<00:23:45.646> around<00:23:45.888> history<00:23:47.034> and<00:23:47.195> politics<00:23:47.679> in<00:23:47.840> other<00:23:48.002> areas.

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But<00:23:49.921> I'm<00:23:50.325> realizing<00:23:51.051> what<00:23:51.212> I<00:23:51.309> miss<00:23:51.696> and<00:23:51.777> what<00:23:51.873> I<00:23:51.938> really<00:23:52.212> need,<00:23:52.599> Ben,<00:23:52.906> back<00:23:53.083> to<00:23:54.212> creating<00:23:54.600> creative<00:23:55.003> juices<00:23:55.407> and<00:23:55.504> inspiring<00:23:56.053> you,<00:23:56.247> is<00:23:56.862> regular<00:23:57.185> fiction.

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And<00:23:57.751> so,<00:23:59.627> the<00:23:59.708> phone<00:24:00.371> is<00:24:00.517> the<00:24:00.662> devil.

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It<00:24:01.649> makes<00:24:01.891> it<00:24:01.972> so<00:24:02.279> easy.

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If<00:24:02.700> you're<00:24:02.797> a<00:24:02.845> little<00:24:03.023> tired<00:24:03.330> and<00:24:03.427> you<00:24:03.460> don't<00:24:03.573> want<00:24:03.670> to<00:24:03.751> dig<00:24:03.912> into<00:24:04.090> a<00:24:04.236> book,<00:24:04.721> you<00:24:04.770> can<00:24:04.884> just<00:24:05.128> get<00:24:05.357> such<00:24:05.683> quick<00:24:06.107> fixes<00:24:06.580> on<00:24:07.252> I<00:24:07.272> don't<00:24:07.529> mean<00:24:07.753> Instagram,<00:24:08.154> but<00:24:08.250> even<00:24:08.474> Twitter.

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It's<00:24:09.179> interesting,<00:24:09.612> it's<00:24:09.692> substantive,<00:24:10.862> but<00:24:10.958> you<00:24:11.135> lose<00:24:11.503> that<00:24:11.600> ability<00:24:12.161> to<00:24:12.321> ingest<00:24:12.786> long<00:24:13.026> form.

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And<00:24:13.523> I<00:24:13.603> think<00:24:14.324> that's<00:24:14.565> how<00:24:14.709> you<00:24:14.869> lose<00:24:15.110> yourself<00:24:15.462> in<00:24:15.542> a<00:24:15.671> book.

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And<00:24:16.456> I'm<00:24:16.632> trying<00:24:16.969> to<00:24:17.049> get<00:24:17.370> back<00:24:17.610> to<00:24:17.706> that,<00:24:18.011> but<00:24:18.507> I'm<00:24:18.652> trying<00:24:18.876> to<00:24:18.956> get<00:24:19.052> back<00:24:19.293> to<00:24:19.437> reading<00:24:19.694> fiction.

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And<00:24:20.335> there's<00:24:20.495> some<00:24:20.799> wonderful<00:24:21.200> authors<00:24:21.601> I<00:24:21.617> like.

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And<00:24:22.899> I<00:24:23.059> think<00:24:23.220> to<00:24:23.380> give<00:24:23.540> your<00:24:23.765> brain<00:24:24.886> new<00:24:25.063> pathways<00:24:25.768> to<00:24:26.008> reconnect<00:24:26.970> intellectually<00:24:27.531> is<00:24:27.627> important.

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And<00:24:29.214> today<00:24:29.551> we're<00:24:29.695> so<00:24:30.015> inundated<00:24:30.496> with<00:24:30.576> information.

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I<00:24:31.249> don't<00:24:31.458> think<00:24:31.554> we<00:24:31.698> do<00:24:31.794> that<00:24:31.971> enough.

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And<00:24:32.435> that's<00:24:32.596> something<00:24:32.820> I'm<00:24:32.916> trying<00:24:33.141> to<00:24:33.221> be<00:24:33.317> more<00:24:33.477> disciplined<00:24:34.279> to<00:24:34.359> say<00:24:34.679> that<00:24:34.824> I'm<00:24:34.920> doing<00:24:35.240> a<00:24:35.320> good<00:24:35.401> job.

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I'm<00:24:36.489> not,<00:24:37.138> but<00:24:37.301> I'm<00:24:37.625> working<00:24:37.934> on<00:24:38.031> that.

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No,<00:24:38.421> I<00:24:38.664> totally<00:24:38.908> agree<00:24:39.167> with<00:24:39.249> you.

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I<00:24:39.492> think<00:24:39.719> fiction's<00:24:40.206> super<00:24:40.401> important.

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So<00:24:43.347> give<00:24:43.444> me<00:24:43.605> a<00:24:43.686> sense<00:24:44.155> for<00:24:44.575> what<00:24:44.753> about<00:24:45.060> your<00:24:45.367> journey<00:24:47.306> to<00:24:47.403> becoming<00:24:47.791> the<00:24:47.888> leader<00:24:48.130> you<00:24:48.292> are<00:24:48.453> today<00:24:48.776> was<00:24:48.954> surprising.

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Like,<00:24:49.988> what<00:24:50.134> has<00:24:50.311> really<00:24:50.554> surprised<00:24:51.265> you<00:24:51.330> as<00:24:51.426> you've<00:24:52.314> climbed<00:24:52.636> the<00:24:52.733> ladder<00:24:53.120> of<00:24:53.201> success?

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Let's<00:24:54.024> say,<00:24:55.137> what<00:24:55.315> about<00:24:55.557> that<00:24:55.783> journey<00:24:56.041> surprised<00:24:56.589> you?

00:24:57.154 --> 00:24:59.364
You<00:24:57.348> never<00:24:57.896> know<00:24:58.122> where<00:24:58.300> opportunities<00:24:58.945> come<00:24:59.171> from.

00:24:59.494 --> 00:25:03.423
And<00:24:59.590> I<00:24:59.671> think<00:24:59.913> one<00:25:00.091> of<00:25:00.139> the<00:25:00.236> best<00:25:00.558> advice<00:25:01.128> or<00:25:01.210> perspectives<00:25:01.871> I<00:25:01.954> got<00:25:02.185> on<00:25:02.284> that<00:25:02.515> was<00:25:02.680> from<00:25:02.944> Bob<00:25:03.192> Pittman.

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Who's<00:25:04.368> been<00:25:04.994> an<00:25:05.026> incredible<00:25:05.412> mentor<00:25:05.990> and<00:25:06.134> investor<00:25:06.471> of<00:25:06.632> mine<00:25:06.873> through<00:25:06.969> my<00:25:07.033> last<00:25:07.274> company<00:25:07.659> with<00:25:07.756> Torch.

00:25:08.157 --> 00:25:09.972
He<00:25:08.799> was<00:25:08.944> the<00:25:09.024> co-founder<00:25:09.442> of<00:25:09.586> MTV.

00:25:10.309 --> 00:25:11.930
He<00:25:10.405> ran<00:25:10.790> AOL<00:25:11.128> at<00:25:11.224> its<00:25:11.369> height.

00:25:12.974 --> 00:25:18.851
He<00:25:13.054> had<00:25:13.440> one<00:25:13.536> of<00:25:13.600> the<00:25:13.681> first<00:25:14.082> sort<00:25:14.516> of<00:25:14.740> early-stage<00:25:15.383> New<00:25:15.527> York<00:25:15.768> private<00:25:16.041> equity<00:25:16.330> firms<00:25:16.603> that<00:25:16.683> was<00:25:16.828> focused<00:25:17.229> on<00:25:17.390> digital<00:25:17.647> media<00:25:18.337> and<00:25:18.658> tech.

00:25:19.541 --> 00:25:22.817
And<00:25:19.895> now,<00:25:20.184> he<00:25:20.264> runs<00:25:20.762> iHeartRadio,<00:25:21.725> the<00:25:21.805> largest<00:25:22.126> radio<00:25:22.367> conglomerate.

00:25:22.865 --> 00:25:26.333
So,<00:25:23.074> he's<00:25:23.266> seen<00:25:23.893> many<00:25:24.150> cycles,<00:25:25.257> many<00:25:25.498> types<00:25:25.803> of<00:25:25.836> businesses.

00:25:26.381 --> 00:25:32.658
And<00:25:26.462> he<00:25:26.542> says,<00:25:26.863> "Look,<00:25:27.907> we're<00:25:28.051> all<00:25:28.212> on<00:25:28.292> a<00:25:28.389> path."<00:25:29.336> And<00:25:29.432> failure<00:25:29.849> or<00:25:29.994> success<00:25:30.780> ultimately<00:25:31.599> isn't<00:25:31.904> the<00:25:31.984> beginning<00:25:32.321> or<00:25:32.385> the<00:25:32.562> end.

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They're<00:25:32.803> just<00:25:33.027> stepping<00:25:33.348> stones.

00:25:34.311 --> 00:25:39.255
And<00:25:34.392> you<00:25:34.488> can<00:25:34.616> have<00:25:34.713> your<00:25:34.889> biggest<00:25:35.194> successes<00:25:35.772> out<00:25:35.916> of<00:25:35.948> a<00:25:36.013> failure,<00:25:36.960> and<00:25:37.056> you<00:25:37.216> can<00:25:37.377> create<00:25:37.923> abject<00:25:38.260> failure<00:25:38.661> out<00:25:38.821> of<00:25:38.853> success.

00:25:39.544 --> 00:25:59.942
And<00:25:40.346> what<00:25:40.667> I<00:25:40.828> think<00:25:40.988> he<00:25:41.133> means<00:25:41.309> by<00:25:41.470> that<00:25:41.694> is<00:25:42.096> you<00:25:42.160> have<00:25:42.256> all<00:25:42.352> sorts<00:25:42.609> of<00:25:42.673> people<00:25:42.978> who<00:25:43.299> peaked<00:25:43.572> early<00:25:44.423> and<00:25:44.503> then<00:25:44.680> never<00:25:45.001> were<00:25:45.065> able<00:25:45.273> to<00:25:45.402> turn<00:25:45.643> that<00:25:45.803> into<00:25:46.028> anything<00:25:46.365> else<00:25:46.750> and<00:25:47.745> sort<00:25:47.970> of<00:25:48.195> all<00:25:48.371> a<00:25:48.451> downward<00:25:48.917> slope,<00:25:49.575> or<00:25:49.719> people<00:25:50.040> who<00:25:50.121> failed<00:25:50.602> and<00:25:50.698> failed<00:25:51.019> and<00:25:51.180> failed,<00:25:51.902> and<00:25:51.982> the<00:25:52.143> insights<00:25:52.544> they<00:25:52.624> got<00:25:52.785> from<00:25:52.945> they<00:25:53.026> failed<00:25:53.443> and<00:25:53.571> the<00:25:53.732> grit<00:25:54.069> they<00:25:54.213> got<00:25:54.454> from<00:25:54.550> that<00:25:55.048> is<00:25:55.176> what<00:25:55.272> enabled<00:25:55.609> them<00:25:55.754> to<00:25:55.834> have<00:25:56.219> a<00:25:56.396> resounding<00:25:56.877> success<00:25:57.599> and<00:25:57.679> be<00:25:57.856> able<00:25:58.000> to<00:25:58.161> get<00:25:58.385> up<00:25:58.642> and<00:25:58.786> do<00:25:58.899> it<00:25:58.963> again<00:25:59.268> and<00:25:59.364> again<00:25:59.508> and<00:25:59.605> again.

00:26:00.006 --> 00:26:09.665
And<00:26:00.086> so,<00:26:00.985> I<00:26:01.129> think<00:26:01.851> you<00:26:01.947> never<00:26:02.252> know<00:26:02.477> where<00:26:02.589> things<00:26:03.054> lead<00:26:03.536> and<00:26:03.616> you<00:26:03.760> have<00:26:04.017> to<00:26:04.097> be<00:26:04.242> open-minded<00:26:05.044> and<00:26:05.124> you<00:26:05.285> have<00:26:05.558> to<00:26:05.702> be<00:26:05.782> resilient,<00:26:06.825> but<00:26:07.451> your<00:26:07.611> biggest<00:26:07.932> failure<00:26:08.349> can<00:26:08.574> turn<00:26:08.767> into<00:26:08.927> your<00:26:09.071> biggest<00:26:09.376> success.

00:26:09.938 --> 00:26:14.960
And<00:26:10.098> I've<00:26:10.259> had<00:26:10.435> plenty<00:26:10.917> on<00:26:11.061> both<00:26:11.238> sides<00:26:12.184> and<00:26:13.965> none<00:26:14.126> of<00:26:14.222> it's<00:26:14.366> been<00:26:14.511> smooth.

00:26:15.008 --> 00:26:18.153
And<00:26:15.088> I'd<00:26:15.233> say<00:26:15.474> I<00:26:15.570> learned<00:26:15.794> a<00:26:15.811> lot<00:26:16.051> more<00:26:16.212> from<00:26:16.372> the<00:26:16.452> failures<00:26:16.998> over<00:26:17.174> time<00:26:17.415> than<00:26:17.559> the<00:26:17.592> successes.

00:26:18.618 --> 00:26:18.715
Yeah.

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Isn't<00:26:19.036> that<00:26:19.116> interesting?

00:26:19.565 --> 00:26:20.961
You<00:26:19.726> kind<00:26:19.886> of<00:26:19.918> forget<00:26:20.303> the<00:26:20.383> successes.

00:26:21.025 --> 00:26:22.421
It's<00:26:21.170> the<00:26:21.330> failures<00:26:21.763> that<00:26:21.892> you<00:26:21.988> dwell<00:26:22.373> on.

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Yeah.

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I<00:26:23.930> mean,<00:26:24.139> I<00:26:24.235> think<00:26:24.412> a<00:26:24.637> big<00:26:24.798> lesson<00:26:25.745> is<00:26:26.404> getting<00:26:26.645> used<00:26:26.821> to<00:26:26.966> not<00:26:27.207> dwelling<00:26:27.592> too<00:26:27.705> much.

00:26:28.171 --> 00:26:28.813
What<00:26:28.267> do<00:26:28.315> you<00:26:28.492> learn?

00:26:29.215 --> 00:26:30.066
What<00:26:29.359> do<00:26:29.392> you<00:26:29.520> do<00:26:29.616> differently?

00:26:30.564 --> 00:26:32.572
Keep<00:26:30.741> moving<00:26:31.207> and<00:26:31.303> sort<00:26:31.448> of<00:26:31.544> being<00:26:31.769> able<00:26:31.897> to<00:26:31.962> shrug<00:26:32.283> it<00:26:32.411> off.

00:26:32.668 --> 00:26:42.226
And<00:26:32.893> I<00:26:32.990> think<00:26:33.150> getting<00:26:33.455> older<00:26:33.712> and<00:26:33.793> having<00:26:34.596> a<00:26:34.660> very<00:26:34.773> circuitous<00:26:35.399> career<00:26:35.801> path,<00:26:36.764> you<00:26:37.166> learn<00:26:37.407> that<00:26:37.712> in<00:26:37.808> many—<00:26:38.354> I've<00:26:38.595> learned<00:26:38.772> that,<00:26:38.933> I<00:26:38.949> mean,<00:26:39.238> in<00:26:39.334> many<00:26:39.575> different<00:26:39.961> ways,<00:26:40.314> in<00:26:40.443> different<00:26:40.684> terrains,<00:26:41.326> in<00:26:41.406> different<00:26:41.663> environments.

00:26:43.013 --> 00:26:50.784
I<00:26:43.093> wonder<00:26:43.286> if<00:26:43.350> you're<00:26:43.430> seeing<00:26:43.752> this,<00:26:43.993> and<00:26:44.458> I'm<00:26:44.571> seeing<00:26:44.796> this<00:26:44.924> a<00:26:45.021> little<00:26:45.117> bit<00:26:45.261> with<00:26:45.374> founders<00:26:46.000> and<00:26:46.225> entrepreneurs<00:26:46.707> that<00:26:46.868> I<00:26:46.964> know,<00:26:47.285> is<00:26:47.526> it's<00:26:47.751> kind<00:26:47.848> of<00:26:47.992> a<00:26:48.233> mental<00:26:48.570> health<00:26:49.160> crisis,<00:26:49.320> particularly<00:26:49.674> coming<00:26:49.980> out<00:26:50.012> of<00:26:50.076> the<00:26:50.221> pandemic.

00:26:51.749 --> 00:26:55.642
What<00:26:51.862> advice<00:26:52.151> do<00:26:52.312> you<00:26:52.393> have<00:26:52.650> for<00:26:52.811> people<00:26:53.068> to<00:26:53.149> stay<00:26:53.438> grounded<00:26:54.178> and<00:26:54.258> to<00:26:54.419> take<00:26:54.644> care<00:26:54.821> of<00:26:54.966> their<00:26:55.127> mental<00:26:55.384> health?

00:26:56.012 --> 00:26:56.928
Yeah,<00:26:56.333> no,<00:26:56.446> that's<00:26:56.735> true.

00:26:57.073 --> 00:27:03.091
And<00:26:57.218> I<00:26:57.298> think<00:26:57.797> before,<00:26:59.780> social<00:26:59.958> media<00:27:00.461> in<00:27:00.559> some<00:27:00.770> ways<00:27:00.932> connected<00:27:01.354> everyone<00:27:01.760> but<00:27:01.922> pulled<00:27:02.182> us<00:27:02.328> everybody<00:27:02.750> apart.

00:27:03.610 --> 00:27:14.343
And<00:27:03.692> then<00:27:03.805> the<00:27:03.951> isolation<00:27:04.519> of<00:27:04.666> COVID<00:27:05.575> it's<00:27:06.208> a<00:27:06.224> huge<00:27:07.356> epidemic<00:27:09.518> and<00:27:10.164> the<00:27:10.325> world's<00:27:10.503> more<00:27:10.664> competitive<00:27:11.374> and<00:27:11.632> everyone<00:27:11.939> would<00:27:12.035> be<00:27:12.181> showing<00:27:13.229> a<00:27:13.262> face<00:27:13.794> on<00:27:13.891> social<00:27:14.214> media.

00:27:14.391 --> 00:27:17.007
It's<00:27:14.601> probably<00:27:14.843> not<00:27:15.020> true,<00:27:15.343> but<00:27:15.488> you<00:27:15.585> only<00:27:15.746> see<00:27:16.053> the<00:27:16.230> things<00:27:16.397> and<00:27:16.489> you're<00:27:16.581> comparing.

00:27:17.863 --> 00:27:19.401
I<00:27:18.023> think<00:27:18.199> it's<00:27:18.808> a<00:27:18.905> couple<00:27:19.129> of<00:27:19.209> things.

00:27:19.466 --> 00:27:20.604
I<00:27:19.482> think<00:27:19.626> there's<00:27:19.786> a<00:27:19.866> physical<00:27:20.251> element.

00:27:20.764 --> 00:27:21.678
For<00:27:20.924> me,<00:27:21.069> it's<00:27:21.213> exercise.

00:27:21.950 --> 00:27:23.441
That<00:27:22.736> clears<00:27:23.072> my<00:27:23.233> head.

00:27:23.890 --> 00:27:24.948
I'm<00:27:24.034> feeling<00:27:24.499> terrible.

00:27:25.252 --> 00:27:29.933
If<00:27:25.477> I'm<00:27:26.054> depressed,<00:27:26.615> if<00:27:26.823> I'm<00:27:27.497> stressed,<00:27:28.122> I<00:27:28.170> mean,<00:27:28.282> that<00:27:28.587> is<00:27:28.827> for<00:27:28.923> me<00:27:29.228> the<00:27:29.324> biggest<00:27:29.645> release.

00:27:30.831 --> 00:27:34.245
Activity,<00:27:31.568> physical<00:27:31.873> activity,<00:27:32.289> ideally<00:27:32.610> with<00:27:32.770> other<00:27:32.931> people,<00:27:33.796> is<00:27:33.892> huge.

00:27:35.335 --> 00:27:38.782
And<00:27:35.415> I<00:27:35.495> think<00:27:35.720> on<00:27:35.800> the<00:27:35.896> mental<00:27:36.233> side<00:27:36.634> is<00:27:36.778> that<00:27:37.002> resilience<00:27:37.676> and<00:27:37.820> grit<00:27:38.140> and<00:27:38.301> building<00:27:38.621> up.

00:27:38.862 --> 00:27:43.831
That's<00:27:39.182> like,<00:27:39.727> as<00:27:39.824> bad<00:27:40.128> as<00:27:40.224> you<00:27:40.304> feel,<00:27:41.731> knowing<00:27:42.132> that<00:27:42.549> the<00:27:42.645> next<00:27:42.981> day<00:27:43.110> can<00:27:43.350> get<00:27:43.574> better.

00:27:44.376 --> 00:27:49.384
And<00:27:44.713> sometimes<00:27:45.436> people<00:27:45.741> meditate<00:27:46.318> and<00:27:46.415> sometimes<00:27:46.880> they<00:27:46.960> do<00:27:47.185> yoga<00:27:47.586> and<00:27:47.699> sometimes<00:27:48.228> they<00:27:48.292> have<00:27:48.485> a<00:27:48.645> religious<00:27:49.031> practice.

00:27:49.512 --> 00:28:02.560
But<00:27:50.170> giving<00:27:50.427> yourself<00:27:50.796> space<00:27:51.839> to<00:27:51.936> sort<00:27:52.241> of<00:27:52.642> take<00:27:52.834> a<00:27:52.963> deep<00:27:53.139> breath,<00:27:53.525> get<00:27:53.685> a<00:27:53.701> little<00:27:53.926> perspective,<00:27:55.049> and<00:27:55.226> giving<00:27:55.483> yourself<00:27:56.092> the<00:27:56.205> ability<00:27:56.751> to<00:27:56.991> let<00:27:57.216> things<00:27:57.473> roll<00:27:57.778> off<00:27:58.420> and<00:27:58.773> know<00:27:59.078> it<00:27:59.222> won't<00:27:59.383> happen<00:27:59.639> immediately,<00:28:00.121> but<00:28:00.426> tomorrow,<00:28:00.843> maybe<00:28:01.084> a<00:28:01.164> little<00:28:01.405> better<00:28:01.646> than<00:28:02.111> yesterday.

00:28:03.395 --> 00:28:09.045
And<00:28:03.491> that<00:28:03.796> one<00:28:03.973> step<00:28:04.294> at<00:28:04.374> a<00:28:04.438> time,<00:28:05.257> I<00:28:05.337> think,<00:28:05.562> is<00:28:05.722> really<00:28:05.899> important,<00:28:07.247> and<00:28:07.343> that<00:28:07.648> will<00:28:07.809> help<00:28:08.065> create<00:28:08.386> that<00:28:08.547> resilience.

00:28:09.510 --> 00:28:12.126
What<00:28:09.574> are<00:28:09.735> you<00:28:09.815> seeing<00:28:10.136> on<00:28:10.232> the<00:28:10.457> AI<00:28:10.794> front<00:28:11.211> at<00:28:11.340> the<00:28:11.436> early<00:28:11.741> stage?

00:28:12.254 --> 00:28:17.223
I<00:28:12.319> mean,<00:28:13.602> particularly<00:28:14.083> like,<00:28:14.419> are<00:28:14.868> people<00:28:15.268> utilizing<00:28:15.990> it<00:28:16.406> in<00:28:16.550> their<00:28:16.727> product?

00:28:17.287 --> 00:28:20.861
Are<00:28:17.352> they<00:28:17.512> utilizing<00:28:18.569> it<00:28:18.714> more<00:28:19.210> internally<00:28:19.931> to<00:28:20.092> run<00:28:20.252> their<00:28:20.412> company?

00:28:21.373 --> 00:28:22.447
How<00:28:21.534> are<00:28:21.758> you<00:28:21.870> thinking<00:28:22.255> about<00:28:22.399> it?

00:28:22.495 --> 00:28:26.709
I<00:28:22.575> mean,<00:28:22.816> we're<00:28:23.456> probably<00:28:23.681> going<00:28:23.761> to<00:28:23.841> get<00:28:23.921> to<00:28:24.017> a<00:28:24.162> point<00:28:24.258> where<00:28:24.402> every<00:28:24.738> company<00:28:24.995> has<00:28:25.139> to<00:28:25.219> be<00:28:25.363> an<00:28:25.443> AI<00:28:25.700> company,<00:28:26.020> if<00:28:26.164> not<00:28:26.341> already.

00:28:27.623 --> 00:28:30.395
But<00:28:29.145> give<00:28:29.289> us<00:28:29.401> a<00:28:29.465> sense<00:28:29.706> for<00:28:29.850> what<00:28:30.010> you're<00:28:30.122> seeing.

00:28:30.747 --> 00:28:33.888
So<00:28:30.843> I<00:28:30.907> think<00:28:31.869> there's<00:28:32.013> a<00:28:32.029> real<00:28:32.253> dichotomy<00:28:32.846> of<00:28:32.974> the<00:28:33.007> time<00:28:33.311> we're<00:28:33.455> in<00:28:33.535> right<00:28:33.712> now.

00:28:34.256 --> 00:28:51.998
On<00:28:34.417> one<00:28:34.577> side,<00:28:35.554> I<00:28:35.634> think<00:28:36.259> ChatGPT<00:28:36.836> is<00:28:36.996> probably<00:28:38.182> maybe<00:28:38.422> except<00:28:38.663> for<00:28:38.823> the<00:28:39.160> iPhone,<00:28:39.240> maybe<00:28:39.480> even<00:28:39.720> equal<00:28:39.945> to<00:28:40.057> that<00:28:40.522> the<00:28:40.602> fastest-growing<00:28:41.709> new<00:28:41.886> behavior<00:28:43.090> ever<00:28:43.411> in<00:28:43.491> history,<00:28:44.935> and<00:28:45.016> everyone's<00:28:45.353> using<00:28:45.594> it<00:28:45.738> more<00:28:45.963> and<00:28:46.059> more,<00:28:46.300> and<00:28:46.460> it's<00:28:46.781> exponentially—<00:28:47.825> more<00:28:48.049> people<00:28:48.290> are<00:28:48.370> using<00:28:48.627> it,<00:28:49.028> and<00:28:49.349> the<00:28:49.494> more<00:28:49.590> they<00:28:49.911> use<00:28:50.248> it,<00:28:50.409> the<00:28:50.537> more<00:28:50.633> people<00:28:50.890> that<00:28:50.970> use<00:28:51.179> it,<00:28:51.275> the<00:28:51.436> more<00:28:51.596> they<00:28:51.741> use<00:28:51.901> it.

00:28:52.463 --> 00:28:53.490
So,<00:28:52.640> it's<00:28:52.880> tremendous.

00:28:54.148 --> 00:28:57.888
And<00:28:54.566> there's<00:28:55.593> all<00:28:55.689> sorts<00:28:55.946> of<00:28:56.074> other<00:28:56.395> apps<00:28:56.636> now<00:28:56.813> that<00:28:56.941> are<00:28:57.053> gaining<00:28:57.374> traction.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.564
And<00:28:58.562> on<00:28:58.659> a<00:28:58.723> consumer,<00:28:59.204> on<00:28:59.284> a<00:28:59.381> business<00:28:59.622> level,<00:28:59.846> on<00:29:00.007> every<00:29:00.248> level,<00:29:00.601> it's<00:29:00.745> impacting<00:29:01.227> everything.

00:29:01.772 --> 00:29:02.302
That's<00:29:01.949> one<00:29:02.125> side.

00:29:02.832 --> 00:29:11.563
The<00:29:02.992> other<00:29:03.169> side<00:29:04.100> is<00:29:04.196> people<00:29:04.501> forget<00:29:05.464> we<00:29:05.560> are<00:29:05.945> barely<00:29:06.363> scratching<00:29:06.924> the<00:29:07.005> surface<00:29:08.674> of<00:29:08.786> how<00:29:09.075> AI<00:29:09.268> is<00:29:09.493> going<00:29:09.589> to<00:29:09.653> look<00:29:09.974> and<00:29:10.038> the<00:29:10.118> capabilities<00:29:10.712> it's<00:29:10.937> going<00:29:11.049> to<00:29:11.098> provide.

00:29:11.964 --> 00:29:18.411
It's<00:29:12.077> like,<00:29:12.446> Thinking<00:29:12.686> about<00:29:12.943> AltaVista,<00:29:13.728> which<00:29:13.889> was<00:29:14.546> an<00:29:14.787> early<00:29:15.027> search<00:29:15.412> engine<00:29:15.893> or<00:29:16.214> web<00:29:16.390> browser<00:29:17.256> back,<00:29:17.449> I<00:29:17.513> think,<00:29:17.689> in<00:29:17.817> the<00:29:17.898> late<00:29:18.074> '90s.

00:29:18.587 --> 00:29:22.612
No<00:29:18.812> one's<00:29:19.693> ever<00:29:19.902> heard<00:29:20.062> of<00:29:20.142> it<00:29:20.223> or<00:29:20.303> talked<00:29:20.575> about<00:29:20.800> that<00:29:20.976> since,<00:29:21.361> but<00:29:21.425> at<00:29:21.521> the<00:29:21.602> time,<00:29:21.858> it<00:29:21.922> was<00:29:22.067> revolutionary.

00:29:22.660 --> 00:29:28.625
So,<00:29:23.365> the<00:29:23.510> capability<00:29:24.167> was<00:29:24.392> there,<00:29:24.728> but<00:29:24.953> what<00:29:25.113> it<00:29:25.274> looks<00:29:25.530> like<00:29:25.706> and<00:29:25.835> how<00:29:26.091> it's<00:29:26.188> going<00:29:26.316> to<00:29:26.476> impact<00:29:27.599> is<00:29:27.839> just<00:29:28.240> beginning.

00:29:28.721 --> 00:29:31.190
And<00:29:28.801> so,<00:29:29.699> on<00:29:29.843> one<00:29:29.956> side,<00:29:30.260> we've<00:29:30.485> barely<00:29:30.822> begun.

00:29:31.238 --> 00:29:34.590
On<00:29:31.367> the<00:29:31.463> other<00:29:31.607> side,<00:29:31.928> it<00:29:31.960> feels<00:29:32.265> like<00:29:32.505> it's<00:29:33.050> everywhere<00:29:33.868> and<00:29:33.948> superfluous.

00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:36.562
I<00:29:34.814> think<00:29:35.536> we're<00:29:35.648> seeing<00:29:35.889> it<00:29:35.937> in<00:29:36.017> a<00:29:36.097> few<00:29:36.338> ways.

00:29:37.396 --> 00:29:46.370
One,<00:29:37.620> on<00:29:37.700> a<00:29:37.733> day-to-day<00:29:38.198> level,<00:29:38.502> just<00:29:38.743> having<00:29:41.079> an<00:29:41.175> exponentially<00:29:41.754> more<00:29:41.979> potent<00:29:42.944> information<00:29:43.588> source<00:29:44.392> where<00:29:44.553> it's<00:29:44.698> like<00:29:44.875> a<00:29:44.891> search<00:29:45.261> engine<00:29:45.502> on<00:29:45.663> crack,<00:29:45.936> essentially.

00:29:47.126 --> 00:29:50.511
My<00:29:47.223> mom<00:29:47.512> uses<00:29:47.834> it,<00:29:48.333> my<00:29:48.494> sister<00:29:48.783> uses<00:29:49.201> it,<00:29:49.394> my<00:29:49.700> nephew<00:29:50.022> can<00:29:50.185> use<00:29:50.413> it.

00:29:50.755 --> 00:29:54.874
It's<00:29:51.162> so<00:29:51.406> simple<00:29:51.976> and<00:29:52.074> so<00:29:52.367> potent,<00:29:52.692> and<00:29:52.790> we<00:29:52.953> can<00:29:53.669> customize<00:29:54.190> it<00:29:54.255> the<00:29:54.337> way<00:29:54.500> we<00:29:54.581> need<00:29:54.809> it.

00:29:54.923 --> 00:29:55.525
So,<00:29:55.069> that's<00:29:55.379> huge.

00:29:57.486 --> 00:29:59.407
And<00:29:57.583> so,<00:29:57.745> that's<00:29:58.213> just<00:29:58.390> on<00:29:58.487> a<00:29:58.552> consumer<00:29:58.939> behavior<00:29:59.278> level.

00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:09.500
I<00:29:59.601> think<00:29:59.762> with<00:29:59.924> companies,<00:30:00.957> what<00:30:01.134> they're<00:30:01.376> offering<00:30:02.022> outside<00:30:02.409> of<00:30:02.441> the<00:30:02.571> fundamental<00:30:03.717> infrastructure<00:30:04.346> layers,<00:30:04.685> that's<00:30:04.846> Perplexity<00:30:05.670> and<00:30:05.895> a<00:30:05.976> lot<00:30:06.138> of<00:30:06.218> the<00:30:06.299> big<00:30:06.444> ones<00:30:06.641> we<00:30:06.797> hear<00:30:07.040> of,<00:30:07.231> ElevenLabs<00:30:08.097> or<00:30:08.602> things<00:30:08.778> like<00:30:08.987> that.

00:30:09.564 --> 00:30:17.178
That's<00:30:10.365> going<00:30:10.478> to<00:30:10.542> keep<00:30:10.750> changing<00:30:11.167> really<00:30:11.343> fast<00:30:11.712> because<00:30:11.904> it's<00:30:12.048> creating<00:30:12.369> new<00:30:12.513> capabilities,<00:30:13.251> but<00:30:13.427> it's<00:30:13.716> very<00:30:14.052> unclear<00:30:14.597> who<00:30:14.693> the<00:30:14.838> winners<00:30:15.319> or<00:30:15.351> what<00:30:15.495> the<00:30:15.639> winner<00:30:15.880> will<00:30:16.040> look<00:30:16.200> like<00:30:16.457> in<00:30:16.601> that<00:30:16.777> area.

00:30:17.803 --> 00:30:42.298
But<00:30:17.964> where<00:30:18.060> we're<00:30:18.204> seeing<00:30:18.621> it<00:30:18.845> tremendously<00:30:19.727> is<00:30:19.887> on<00:30:19.983> the<00:30:20.144> back<00:30:20.448> end,<00:30:21.089> how<00:30:21.811> companies<00:30:22.228> are<00:30:22.308> using<00:30:22.612> it<00:30:22.693> to<00:30:22.789> be<00:30:22.885> more<00:30:23.045> efficient,<00:30:23.670> whether<00:30:23.911> it's<00:30:24.055> in<00:30:24.151> marketing<00:30:24.632> where<00:30:24.712> they<00:30:24.792> can<00:30:25.017> create<00:30:25.257> more<00:30:25.418> content<00:30:25.915> and<00:30:26.075> test<00:30:26.379> more<00:30:26.428> media<00:30:26.716> campaigns,<00:30:27.758> whether<00:30:27.998> it's<00:30:28.143> engineering<00:30:28.880> where<00:30:29.185> you<00:30:29.265> can<00:30:29.425> take<00:30:29.618> an<00:30:29.746> engineer<00:30:30.643> and<00:30:30.724> he<00:30:30.804> can<00:30:30.964> get<00:30:31.285> 4<00:30:31.926> times<00:30:32.246> the<00:30:32.391> output<00:30:33.609> on<00:30:33.753> testing<00:30:34.250> and<00:30:34.330> coding<00:30:34.875> and<00:30:35.116> rechecking<00:30:35.533> the<00:30:35.613> coding<00:30:36.719> and<00:30:36.799> having<00:30:37.136> the<00:30:37.360> AI<00:30:37.617> running<00:30:38.081> at<00:30:38.178> night<00:30:38.675> and<00:30:38.819> 24/7<00:30:39.604> so<00:30:39.717> they<00:30:39.861> can<00:30:40.230> constantly<00:30:40.662> be<00:30:40.807> moving<00:30:41.368> and<00:30:41.625> delivering<00:30:41.945> products.

00:30:42.346 --> 00:30:46.917
So<00:30:43.132> there's<00:30:43.292> a<00:30:43.308> lot<00:30:43.533> of<00:30:43.613> much<00:30:43.854> more<00:30:44.030> tactical<00:30:44.575> use<00:30:44.752> cases<00:30:45.153> that<00:30:45.473> are<00:30:45.778> very,<00:30:46.099> very<00:30:46.275> potent<00:30:46.628> right<00:30:46.756> now.

00:30:47.478 --> 00:30:54.261
But<00:30:47.622> I<00:30:47.638> think<00:30:47.879> strategically,<00:30:48.745> we're<00:30:48.825> still<00:30:49.098> early,<00:30:49.627> and<00:30:50.108> what<00:30:50.268> we're<00:30:50.364> seeing<00:30:50.669> now<00:30:50.910> is<00:30:51.006> not<00:30:51.166> what<00:30:51.311> it's<00:30:51.391> going<00:30:51.471> to<00:30:51.503> look<00:30:51.712> like<00:30:51.888> in<00:30:51.968> 2<00:30:52.128> years<00:30:52.449> and<00:30:52.610> definitely<00:30:52.930> not<00:30:53.091> what<00:30:53.155> it's<00:30:53.299> going<00:30:53.363> to<00:30:53.427> look<00:30:53.572> like<00:30:53.748> in<00:30:53.828> 5<00:30:54.069> years.

00:30:54.935 --> 00:31:10.568
I<00:30:55.015> think<00:30:55.240> a<00:30:55.256> lot<00:30:55.400> about<00:30:55.640> empathy<00:30:56.041> when<00:30:56.154> I<00:30:56.282> think<00:30:56.378> about<00:30:56.619> leadership,<00:30:57.404> and<00:30:57.725> I<00:30:57.821> wonder<00:30:59.040> if<00:30:59.441> you<00:30:59.585> think<00:30:59.746> about<00:30:59.986> it<00:31:00.066> the<00:31:00.147> same<00:31:00.467> way,<00:31:01.510> just<00:31:01.670> in<00:31:01.750> terms<00:31:02.087> of<00:31:02.312> the<00:31:02.552> role<00:31:02.873> it<00:31:03.017> plays<00:31:03.434> in<00:31:03.594> being<00:31:03.819> a<00:31:03.899> great<00:31:04.220> leader<00:31:04.942> and<00:31:05.439> what<00:31:05.824> empathy<00:31:06.321> can<00:31:07.363> bring<00:31:07.667> to<00:31:07.763> the<00:31:07.843> table<00:31:08.468> in<00:31:08.564> the<00:31:08.725> business<00:31:09.125> that<00:31:09.286> you<00:31:09.382> are<00:31:09.590> in,<00:31:09.991> right?

00:31:10.888 --> 00:31:14.734
Give<00:31:11.273> me<00:31:11.369> a<00:31:11.385> sense<00:31:11.753> for<00:31:12.475> the<00:31:12.571> role<00:31:12.875> you<00:31:12.907> think<00:31:13.196> empathy<00:31:13.532> plays<00:31:13.997> in<00:31:14.253> leadership.

00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:23.163
I<00:31:15.279> think<00:31:15.391> it's<00:31:15.519> critical<00:31:17.282> and<00:31:17.603> it's<00:31:17.763> a<00:31:17.843> fine<00:31:18.163> line<00:31:18.981> because<00:31:19.381> at<00:31:19.461> some<00:31:19.686> point,<00:31:21.128> you<00:31:21.208> have<00:31:21.384> to<00:31:21.609> understand<00:31:22.106> what<00:31:22.250> people<00:31:22.490> are<00:31:22.586> going<00:31:22.907> through.

00:31:23.291 --> 00:31:28.804
You<00:31:23.388> have<00:31:23.612> to<00:31:23.708> be<00:31:23.868> able<00:31:23.981> to<00:31:24.045> motivate<00:31:24.590> them,<00:31:25.391> but<00:31:25.535> you<00:31:25.615> also<00:31:25.791> have<00:31:25.936> to<00:31:26.096> dictate<00:31:26.897> what<00:31:27.137> you<00:31:28.259> want<00:31:28.500> done.

00:31:29.878 --> 00:31:40.826
And<00:31:29.958> at<00:31:30.022> the<00:31:30.054> same<00:31:30.278> time,<00:31:30.439> you<00:31:30.503> have<00:31:30.599> to<00:31:30.663> be<00:31:30.759> listening<00:31:31.144> because<00:31:31.400> they<00:31:31.560> can<00:31:31.705> be<00:31:31.865> right<00:31:32.746> you<00:31:32.843> may<00:31:33.404> know<00:31:33.564> a<00:31:33.580> lot,<00:31:34.526> but<00:31:34.686> again,<00:31:34.991> back<00:31:35.167> to<00:31:35.312> connecting<00:31:35.648> dots,<00:31:35.969> they<00:31:36.129> may<00:31:36.354> have<00:31:36.530> an<00:31:36.610> insight<00:31:37.075> that<00:31:37.171> you<00:31:37.316> haven't<00:31:37.492> even<00:31:37.732> thought<00:31:37.989> of<00:31:38.053> because<00:31:38.277> their<00:31:38.438> background<00:31:38.951> is<00:31:39.095> different<00:31:39.432> and<00:31:39.560> they're<00:31:39.720> thinking<00:31:39.977> about<00:31:40.201> things<00:31:40.378> differently.

00:31:41.564 --> 00:31:50.798
But<00:31:41.724> I<00:31:41.740> think<00:31:41.901> to<00:31:42.045> motivate<00:31:42.478> anyone,<00:31:42.846> you<00:31:42.943> need<00:31:43.087> to<00:31:43.167> understand<00:31:43.648> what<00:31:43.744> drives<00:31:44.129> them<00:31:44.289> and<00:31:44.370> how<00:31:44.530> they're<00:31:44.626> feeling<00:31:45.027> about<00:31:45.331> things<00:31:46.213> and<00:31:47.255> what<00:31:47.512> their<00:31:47.816> unique<00:31:49.115> equation<00:31:49.612> of<00:31:49.676> motivation<00:31:50.478> takes.

00:31:51.199 --> 00:31:52.401
And<00:31:51.279> you<00:31:51.359> can't<00:31:51.584> do<00:31:51.680> that<00:31:51.824> without<00:31:52.081> empathy.

00:31:52.946 --> 00:31:59.616
And<00:31:53.027> also,<00:31:53.524> if<00:31:53.604> you<00:31:53.828> run<00:31:54.005> people<00:31:54.325> too<00:31:54.566> hard,<00:31:55.271> then<00:31:55.928> they're<00:31:56.105> going<00:31:56.201> to<00:31:56.329> burn<00:31:56.554> out<00:31:56.874> or<00:31:57.131> get<00:31:57.275> resentful,<00:31:57.676> and<00:31:57.788> you're<00:31:57.932> also<00:31:58.189> not<00:31:58.333> going<00:31:58.477> to<00:31:58.558> get<00:31:58.718> the<00:31:58.958> result<00:31:59.279> you<00:31:59.375> want.

00:31:59.952 --> 00:32:14.157
So<00:32:00.562> it's<00:32:00.978> constantly<00:32:01.540> a<00:32:01.620> balance<00:32:02.245> of<00:32:02.983> showing<00:32:04.187> leadership<00:32:04.733> and<00:32:04.829> leading<00:32:05.086> by<00:32:05.295> example,<00:32:06.756> but<00:32:06.916> also<00:32:07.558> listening<00:32:08.987> and<00:32:09.148> having<00:32:09.421> an<00:32:09.549> understanding<00:32:10.272> and<00:32:10.352> creating<00:32:10.673> a<00:32:10.753> culture<00:32:11.154> where<00:32:11.251> people<00:32:11.556> feel<00:32:11.732> comfortable<00:32:12.680> putting<00:32:12.936> their<00:32:13.322> best<00:32:13.563> foot<00:32:13.659> forward.

00:32:14.365 --> 00:32:20.402
And<00:32:14.767> even<00:32:15.569> if<00:32:15.682> there<00:32:15.778> are<00:32:15.810> mistakes<00:32:16.388> made,<00:32:16.950> enabling<00:32:17.656> room<00:32:17.833> for<00:32:17.994> those,<00:32:18.234> because<00:32:18.491> again,<00:32:18.716> like<00:32:18.876> I<00:32:18.941> keep<00:32:19.117> saying,<00:32:19.422> you<00:32:19.583> learn<00:32:19.824> from<00:32:19.904> mistakes.

00:32:20.947 --> 00:32:23.741
And<00:32:21.060> if<00:32:21.188> you<00:32:21.269> have<00:32:21.365> a<00:32:21.445> culture<00:32:21.927> of<00:32:22.071> empathy,<00:32:22.473> you<00:32:22.569> should<00:32:22.713> have<00:32:22.826> a<00:32:22.890> culture<00:32:23.275> of<00:32:23.436> learning.

00:32:24.094 --> 00:32:28.316
And<00:32:24.174> if<00:32:24.319> you<00:32:24.351> have<00:32:24.431> a<00:32:24.560> culture<00:32:24.816> of<00:32:24.977> learning,<00:32:25.378> you'll<00:32:25.539> have<00:32:26.197> a<00:32:26.261> culture<00:32:26.759> of<00:32:26.904> getting<00:32:27.225> better<00:32:27.690> and<00:32:27.786> improving.

00:32:28.894 --> 00:32:33.720
And<00:32:29.392> collaboration<00:32:30.498> that<00:32:30.610> will<00:32:30.899> end<00:32:31.059> up<00:32:31.235> making<00:32:32.197> what<00:32:32.438> turns<00:32:32.678> into<00:32:32.934> a<00:32:32.983> world-class<00:32:33.399> culture.

00:32:34.025 --> 00:32:41.222
Finally,<00:32:34.441> we<00:32:34.682> end<00:32:34.986> every<00:32:35.227> interview<00:32:35.467> with<00:32:35.628> the<00:32:35.660> same<00:32:35.948> question,<00:32:36.509> and<00:32:36.606> that<00:32:36.766> is<00:32:36.910> at<00:32:36.990> CEO.com,<00:32:37.728> we<00:32:37.888> believe<00:32:38.128> the<00:32:38.209> chances<00:32:38.690> one<00:32:39.010> gives<00:32:39.491> is<00:32:39.635> just<00:32:39.812> as<00:32:39.892> important<00:32:40.196> as<00:32:40.228> the<00:32:40.373> chances<00:32:40.693> one<00:32:40.854> takes.

00:32:41.815 --> 00:32:44.717
When<00:32:41.976> you<00:32:42.200> hear<00:32:42.377> that,<00:32:42.681> who<00:32:42.777> gave<00:32:43.002> you<00:32:43.114> a<00:32:43.178> chance<00:32:43.499> to<00:32:43.579> get<00:32:43.723> you<00:32:43.835> to<00:32:43.964> where<00:32:44.124> you<00:32:44.300> are<00:32:44.396> today?

00:32:45.326 --> 00:32:46.144
Wow,<00:32:45.583> there's<00:32:45.775> so<00:32:45.823> many.

00:32:47.330 --> 00:32:49.398
3<00:32:47.506> off<00:32:47.603> the<00:32:47.667> top<00:32:47.843> of<00:32:47.907> my<00:32:48.051> head<00:32:48.292> that<00:32:48.452> correlate<00:32:48.789> to<00:32:48.933> what<00:32:49.029> we're<00:32:49.125> doing.

00:32:49.510 --> 00:33:01.620
I'd<00:32:49.590> first<00:32:49.863> say<00:32:51.290> the<00:32:51.418> fact<00:32:51.755> that<00:32:51.899> I<00:32:51.979> got<00:32:52.219> to<00:32:52.300> get<00:32:52.797> anywhere<00:32:53.374> near<00:32:53.598> Dave<00:32:53.838> Matthews<00:32:54.239> Band<00:32:54.576> as<00:32:54.816> early<00:32:55.121> as<00:32:55.506> That<00:32:55.763> was<00:32:56.067> really<00:32:56.790> Koren<00:32:57.127> Capshaw<00:32:57.929> and<00:32:58.154> Dave<00:32:58.812> and<00:32:58.972> Boyd<00:32:59.694> and<00:32:59.919> Carter<00:33:00.240> and<00:33:00.320> the<00:33:00.416> band.

00:33:02.326 --> 00:33:03.465
Koren<00:33:02.663> took<00:33:02.839> a<00:33:02.904> chance<00:33:03.289> on<00:33:03.337> me.

00:33:03.545 --> 00:33:09.403
He's<00:33:03.706> probably<00:33:04.388> one<00:33:04.408> of<00:33:04.428> the<00:33:04.476> most<00:33:05.150> well-known<00:33:05.953> and<00:33:06.193> well-regarded<00:33:06.835> managers<00:33:07.782> and<00:33:07.942> entertainment<00:33:08.440> moguls<00:33:08.825> at<00:33:08.905> this<00:33:09.002> point.

00:33:09.868 --> 00:33:16.432
And<00:33:10.189> I<00:33:10.446> was<00:33:10.590> a<00:33:10.671> freshman<00:33:11.008> in<00:33:11.088> college<00:33:11.569> and<00:33:11.649> he<00:33:11.730> was<00:33:11.874> like,<00:33:12.757> "I'm<00:33:13.110> going<00:33:13.399> to<00:33:13.479> give<00:33:13.575> that<00:33:13.736> kid<00:33:13.896> a<00:33:13.960> shot."<00:33:14.313> So,<00:33:14.474> that<00:33:14.843> launched<00:33:15.180> me<00:33:15.581> on<00:33:15.661> the<00:33:15.741> music<00:33:16.062> side.

00:33:17.892 --> 00:33:22.449
Another<00:33:18.149> person<00:33:18.534> who<00:33:18.566> sort<00:33:18.790> of<00:33:18.855> helped<00:33:19.047> mentor<00:33:19.352> me<00:33:19.577> out<00:33:19.689> of<00:33:19.785> the<00:33:19.850> music<00:33:20.154> business,<00:33:20.941> ironically,<00:33:21.342> is<00:33:21.502> actually<00:33:21.743> Quincy<00:33:22.160> Jones.

00:33:22.642 --> 00:33:30.497
And<00:33:22.802> the<00:33:22.882> shot<00:33:23.187> he<00:33:23.283> gave<00:33:23.523> me<00:33:23.684> was—<00:33:24.485> there<00:33:24.630> was<00:33:24.726> about<00:33:24.966> a<00:33:25.111> year<00:33:25.287> as<00:33:25.383> I<00:33:25.431> was<00:33:25.592> thinking<00:33:25.816> about<00:33:25.992> what<00:33:26.089> I<00:33:26.169> wanted<00:33:26.425> to<00:33:26.554> do,<00:33:26.890> and<00:33:26.954> I<00:33:26.970> was<00:33:27.131> introduced<00:33:27.531> to<00:33:27.596> him<00:33:27.772> through<00:33:27.932> another<00:33:29.038> entrepreneur<00:33:29.455> friend<00:33:29.760> who<00:33:29.792> was<00:33:29.936> close<00:33:30.177> to<00:33:30.273> him.

00:33:31.059 --> 00:33:41.832
And<00:33:31.139> he<00:33:31.219> took<00:33:31.443> a<00:33:31.459> liking<00:33:31.844> and<00:33:31.924> took<00:33:32.101> some<00:33:32.261> time<00:33:32.566> with<00:33:32.678> me<00:33:32.774> to<00:33:32.966> really<00:33:33.287> rethink<00:33:33.768> with<00:33:33.864> the<00:33:34.008> changes<00:33:34.281> in<00:33:34.409> the<00:33:34.441> music<00:33:34.746> business<00:33:35.227> what<00:33:35.371> I<00:33:35.387> should<00:33:35.612> do<00:33:35.692> about<00:33:35.932> my<00:33:36.093> career,<00:33:36.493> how<00:33:36.590> to<00:33:36.750> view<00:33:36.926> that,<00:33:37.295> because<00:33:37.856> I<00:33:37.952> put<00:33:38.257> all<00:33:38.449> my<00:33:38.658> heart<00:33:38.818> and<00:33:38.898> soul<00:33:39.155> into<00:33:39.299> one<00:33:39.475> industry<00:33:39.892> that<00:33:40.036> I<00:33:40.341> saw<00:33:40.598> there's<00:33:40.774> a<00:33:40.902> chance<00:33:41.159> that<00:33:41.239> was<00:33:41.383> all<00:33:41.559> ending.

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:43.900
And<00:33:42.281> how<00:33:42.441> do<00:33:42.505> you<00:33:42.602> think<00:33:42.842> about<00:33:43.083> your<00:33:43.243> life<00:33:43.483> that<00:33:43.644> way?

00:33:44.365 --> 00:33:45.664
And<00:33:44.509> he<00:33:44.670> was<00:33:45.006> unbelievable.

00:33:45.728 --> 00:33:48.229
And<00:33:45.872> he<00:33:46.032> ultimately<00:33:46.529> helped<00:33:46.706> me<00:33:46.786> make<00:33:46.994> the<00:33:47.026> decision<00:33:47.427> to<00:33:47.491> go<00:33:47.588> to<00:33:47.652> business<00:33:47.956> school.

00:33:48.293 --> 00:33:52.413
And<00:33:48.373> there's<00:33:48.598> a<00:33:48.614> lot<00:33:49.014> of<00:33:49.095> creativity<00:33:49.656> in<00:33:49.800> business<00:33:50.217> and<00:33:50.361> other<00:33:50.537> ways<00:33:50.858> to<00:33:51.323> take<00:33:51.563> that<00:33:51.660> creative<00:33:52.125> engine.

00:33:53.423 --> 00:34:03.249
Jack<00:33:53.728> Welch,<00:33:54.209> I<00:33:54.241> mean,<00:33:54.609> I<00:33:54.738> can't<00:33:54.930> even<00:33:55.026> begin<00:33:55.427> to<00:33:55.491> express<00:33:56.148> how<00:33:56.292> incredible<00:33:56.805> it<00:33:56.934> was<00:33:57.190> and<00:33:57.270> how<00:33:57.447> he<00:33:57.815> opened<00:33:58.136> up<00:33:58.953> his<00:33:59.338> own<00:33:59.498> life<00:33:59.771> and<00:33:59.915> letting<00:34:00.140> me<00:34:00.172> sit<00:34:00.476> next<00:34:00.717> to<00:34:00.861> him<00:34:00.973> and<00:34:01.117> work<00:34:01.342> with<00:34:01.454> him<00:34:01.598> and<00:34:01.759> learn<00:34:01.983> from<00:34:02.143> him.

00:34:03.826 --> 00:34:08.427
And<00:34:03.907> then,<00:34:03.987> the<00:34:04.083> last<00:34:04.323> person<00:34:04.868> is<00:34:04.965> Silas<00:34:05.445> Chou<00:34:05.910> who<00:34:06.151> really<00:34:06.391> helped<00:34:06.728> us<00:34:06.872> get<00:34:07.048> Torch<00:34:07.273> started<00:34:07.770> and<00:34:07.850> believed<00:34:08.251> in<00:34:08.331> us.

00:34:08.507 --> 00:34:15.304
Silas<00:34:10.254> is<00:34:10.735> an<00:34:11.521> unbelievable<00:34:12.338> businessman,<00:34:13.044> really<00:34:13.220> started<00:34:14.486> in<00:34:14.727> consumer.

00:34:15.608 --> 00:34:18.045
He<00:34:15.769> built<00:34:15.945> Tommy<00:34:16.266> Hilfiger<00:34:16.907> and<00:34:16.987> then<00:34:17.131> he<00:34:17.292> built<00:34:17.468> Michael<00:34:17.772> Kors.

00:34:18.093 --> 00:34:18.750
He<00:34:18.173> took<00:34:18.349> it<00:34:18.414> public.

00:34:18.798 --> 00:34:21.527
It<00:34:18.830> was<00:34:18.911> the<00:34:18.991> biggest<00:34:19.873> fashion<00:34:20.596> IPO<00:34:21.013> in<00:34:21.142> history.

00:34:22.186 --> 00:34:23.503
But<00:34:22.266> he<00:34:22.427> also<00:34:22.619> seeded<00:34:23.085> Coatue.

00:34:23.712 --> 00:34:24.900
He<00:34:23.792> seeded<00:34:24.129> Tiger<00:34:24.515> Global.

00:34:25.398 --> 00:34:26.297
He<00:34:25.494> looks<00:34:25.719> for<00:34:25.815> talent.

00:34:26.843 --> 00:34:35.211
And<00:34:26.940> I<00:34:27.004> was<00:34:27.341> thinking<00:34:27.662> about<00:34:27.839> starting<00:34:28.225> the<00:34:28.305> fund,<00:34:29.092> and<00:34:29.815> one<00:34:29.975> of<00:34:30.055> his<00:34:30.232> top<00:34:30.409> lieutenants<00:34:31.019> was<00:34:31.533> someone<00:34:31.902> I<00:34:31.935> knew,<00:34:32.336> and<00:34:32.481> we<00:34:32.625> looked<00:34:32.802> at<00:34:32.882> deals<00:34:33.123> together<00:34:33.589> and<00:34:34.151> offered<00:34:34.392> to<00:34:34.488> make<00:34:34.713> the<00:34:34.809> intro.

00:34:35.693 --> 00:34:52.555
And<00:34:35.773> he<00:34:35.853> really<00:34:36.158> liked<00:34:36.415> the<00:34:36.576> lens<00:34:36.897> and<00:34:36.994> my<00:34:37.202> background<00:34:38.086> and<00:34:38.182> gave<00:34:38.343> me<00:34:38.423> the<00:34:38.567> confidence<00:34:38.985> to<00:34:39.065> start,<00:34:39.547> and<00:34:39.627> he<00:34:39.708> backed<00:34:40.093> us<00:34:40.816> and<00:34:41.121> has<00:34:41.298> just<00:34:41.555> been<00:34:41.715> an<00:34:41.796> incredible<00:34:42.422> mentor<00:34:43.064> in<00:34:43.161> not<00:34:43.321> just<00:34:44.028> how<00:34:44.060> to<00:34:44.124> invest<00:34:44.686> and<00:34:44.831> how<00:34:44.863> to<00:34:45.008> build<00:34:45.473> a<00:34:45.506> firm,<00:34:46.292> but<00:34:46.437> also<00:34:46.678> how<00:34:46.774> to<00:34:46.935> think<00:34:47.111> about<00:34:47.978> macro<00:34:48.540> trends<00:34:48.942> in<00:34:49.086> where<00:34:49.183> the<00:34:49.343> world<00:34:49.568> is<00:34:49.664> going,<00:34:49.969> how<00:34:50.066> technology<00:34:50.564> is<00:34:50.708> impacting<00:34:51.254> it,<00:34:51.431> a<00:34:51.575> global<00:34:51.977> perspective.

00:34:53.036 --> 00:35:00.021
And<00:34:53.181> so<00:34:54.000> I<00:34:54.080> don't<00:34:54.240> think<00:34:54.465> I<00:34:54.562> could<00:34:54.706> have<00:34:55.204> created<00:34:55.525> Torch<00:34:55.910> the<00:34:56.007> way<00:34:56.167> I<00:34:56.312> have<00:34:57.355> with<00:34:57.436> the<00:34:57.548> speed<00:34:58.078> and<00:34:58.415> success<00:34:58.881> without<00:34:59.475> his<00:34:59.619> guidance.

00:35:00.567 --> 00:35:01.418
That's<00:35:00.727> incredible,<00:35:01.177> man.

00:35:01.546 --> 00:35:03.168
You've<00:35:01.675> had<00:35:01.787> some<00:35:01.948> incredible<00:35:02.429> mentors,<00:35:02.975> man.

00:35:03.618 --> 00:35:03.891
Unbelievable.

00:35:03.955 --> 00:35:04.196
I<00:35:04.115> have.

00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:05.127
I've<00:35:04.340> been<00:35:04.517> very<00:35:04.822> lucky.

00:35:05.544 --> 00:35:06.235
That's<00:35:05.833> so<00:35:06.042> cool.

00:35:07.166 --> 00:35:08.675
John,<00:35:07.487> thank<00:35:07.648> you<00:35:07.728> so<00:35:07.856> much<00:35:08.049> for<00:35:08.129> coming<00:35:08.370> on<00:35:08.435> the<00:35:08.467> show.

00:35:08.740 --> 00:35:09.221
It<00:35:08.772> means<00:35:08.997> a<00:35:09.013> lot.

00:35:09.558 --> 00:35:10.233
Absolute<00:35:09.960> pleasure.

00:35:10.297 --> 00:35:11.389
It's<00:35:10.458> been<00:35:10.506> a<00:35:10.538> very<00:35:10.715> fun<00:35:10.939> discussion.