The customers of leadership

The meeting was on the 11th floor of 500 Oracle Parkway, down the hall from Larry Ellison's office. Ellison looked across the table at the executive who ran the education business and told her to pick her hundred best people, let the other 250 go, and rebuild from there.

Liz Wiseman thought he had lost his mind. She was the youngest person in the room, and the only woman, and the other executives were signaling her not to take the bait. So she did the responsible thing. She went to the business unit heads, modeled the revenue hit, built a case for why the plan was wrong, and came back with a smaller reduction.

Ellison heard her out. "Liz, you've done a really good analysis on this, and you're right," she remembers him saying. "What I asked you to do is probably unreasonable. And what you've come back with is a much more reasonable plan. And if this is what you want to do, I support you."

There were high fives in the hallway. Wiseman also caught something in his face she'd never been able to unsee: disappointment.

The smaller reduction happened. Then a little more trimming. Then people started leaving on their own, and the work kept growing because the whole function was being rebuilt online at the same time, and there were not enough people left to do it. Wiseman spent the following months, in her words, presiding over a slow bloodletting.

"I realized Larry was absolutely right about this, and I was absolutely wrong," she said on the CEO.com Podcast. "I had been incredibly shortsighted. I had been sort of defending the status quo, protecting my team, my organization, and some of it I think under the guise of protecting the business. But Larry had been thinking big; he'd been thinking for the future, and I'm protecting the past."

He knew. A colleague of hers at Oracle, the product marketing executive Dennis Moore, put the man's method to her plainly: if Larry trusted you, there was no greater multiplier. Ellison had the better answer and spent it on letting her find out for herself.

That story is the seed of everything Wiseman has published since. She left Oracle after 17 years, having built Oracle University at 24 and run human resource development globally, and started asking a question the leadership literature mostly skips. Not what qualities does a leader have. What is it like to be on the receiving end of them?

Her first book, Multipliers, argued that leaders either amplify the intelligence around them or drain it, and that most draining happens by accident. The underlying research covered 150 executives across 35 countries and put a number on the gap: multipliers got 1.97 times the capability out of their people that diminishers did, which is roughly a second workforce for free. The book has been in print for 16 years and revised once, in 2017. FranklinCovey, based in Salt Lake City, partnered with her to build the research into a course that ships with a deck of Accidental Diminisher cards. Thinkers50 has put her on its ranking of management thinkers in every cycle since 2013, peaking at number 17, and gave her its leadership award in 2019.

Employees are the customers

The line Wiseman keeps returning to came from a boss at Oracle, not from her research. Our employees are the customers of our leadership.

"I think it's a lot more helpful to look at leadership through the eyes of the customer," she said. "Who is the recipient of that leadership, and be more concerned about are people great around that person or is the leader great him or herself?"

She is not against charisma. She is against treating it as the measure. "There are people who may show up big, maybe they are charismatic and visionary, bold and compelling," she said. "Yeah, they can be those things, but do they know how to temper that? Do they know how to play big? But do they also know how to pull back and play small, creating room for other people to play big?"

Her argument for why this matters now is less sentimental than it sounds. The problems are too big for one head. "There is no one visionary enough that can see where the tech industry is really headed," she said. "I think this is one where we need many eyes on a situation to piece together what the future's going to look like."

Asked what to do when the leadership you are receiving is bad, she went through the obvious options and rejected all three. Quiet quitting leaves you weaker than it found you, atrophied by the time you finally work up the courage to go. Quitting solves nothing if you then go shopping for a job instead of shopping for a boss. Fighting it backfires, because arguing with a know-it-all produces more arguing and locking out a micromanager produces more suspicion.

What she has watched work is to be a multiplier upward. Pull the difficult boss in rather than pushing them out. Give them a defined role. Focus their energy somewhere useful. It will not turn them into a good manager, she is clear about that, but it changes the dynamic enough to buy you room.

It is worth saying that this puts the repair work on the person with the least leverage, and Wiseman only half answers that. Her defense is that the alternative is worse. "We have so much more power than we think we have," she said, and the research behind Impact Players backs the narrower claim. She and her team asked 170 leaders what their people did that most frustrated them and eroded value. Her read of the answers is that managers don't much enjoy managing and are quietly grateful for anyone who finds problems, chases them down, and takes the lead in a leaderless moment without being told to. That is a real finding about ordinary bad bosses. It is not an answer for someone whose boss is dangerous, and she does not pretend it is.

The problem was never Larry

Wiseman ran leadership development at Oracle, which meant she spent years sitting down with people who had studied Ellison and decided to become him. Big, gunslinging, argumentative, visionary.

"Larry is amazing," she would tell them. "We are so glad we have Larry Ellison in this company. But the thing is, we only need one of him."

The Larry lookalikes have successors in every generation. Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs put a lot of turtlenecks and imitated tempers into circulation, Elizabeth Holmes most notoriously. When asked what would happen when Isaacson's Elon Musk biography landed, Wiseman said the question disturbed her.

Her view of Musk is genuinely split. She bought a Tesla a decade before the interview, has a Powerwall, loves what he built, and has coached enough of his former executives to know what it was like to work for him. The distinction she draws is between thought leaders and organizational leaders. "There is a place for people who are singularly brilliant and emphatic," she said. "I'm not sure his strength is as an organizational leader." Savants exist and do real things. The mistake is filing them under a category they were never in, and then copying them.

Jobs is her evidence that people move. The version who came back to Apple was not the version who left, and the people who worked closest to him late describe someone else entirely. She heard a Pixar director talk about making Up under him: Jobs believed in a premise about a widower rediscovering joy, stayed interested the whole way, and never touched the script or the visuals.

Then there is Tim Cook, whom Wiseman was worried about. She had been coaching executives on his team as he took over, and she liked him, and she could see what was being asked of him. She went into their first meeting braced for an impersonation. "What I saw was someone who was so different, so understated, so thoughtful, but piercing in his intelligence and curious and warm," she said. "And that's who Steve entrusted Apple to."

Cook stretched into the showman parts of the job without pretending to be the previous occupant, and Wiseman thinks the results settle the argument about whether authenticity is a luxury. She has no objection to faking it until you make it, correctly understood. "It's knowing what you're trying to become," she said. "You're just squaring your shoulders as you grow into something that is authentically desired and authentically possible for you."

Fifty-one percent

In September 2021, Wiseman testified before the House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, at a hearing called Pathways to Success: How Practicing Civility, Collaboration, and Leadership Can Empower Members. Adam Grant put her name forward.

The written testimony is a peculiar document, worth reading in full. It is a leadership consultant explaining to the House of Representatives how to run itself, in the flat operational prose of a corporate playbook, addressed to an institution where nobody can fire anybody.

Some of it is what you would expect. Ask hard questions and then stop talking. Use debate the way surgeons use surgery, on specific problems, time-bound, with prep work. Ask people to argue the opposite position once camps start forming. Find each colleague's native genius, which she defines as the thing a person does both easily and freely, well beyond everyone else and without being asked or paid.

Some of it is odder and better. Video case studies of representatives who have actually led across the aisle, which members could post on their own sites. A lapel pin called the Full House Award, given peer to peer for bipartisan work, no prior approval required. Middle schoolers attending open committee meetings with a bingo card of good leadership behaviors, marking what they see and do not see, which she later called one of her favorites of the dozen practices she put forward. And, at the very end, one line proposing that House members be seated alphabetically rather than by party.

The centerpiece is a formula she also credits to the former Cisco chief executive John Chambers, who once told a colleague he had 51 percent of the vote and 100 percent of the accountability. Wiseman recommended committee chairs say the same thing to members, in as many words: you are in charge, which means I am not, and if we disagree you make the call.

This is the same move Ellison made with her, and it is the reason the Oracle story is not simply a story about being wrong. Trust in her telling is not something a leader accumulates by being reliable. It is something a leader spends. The framework predates the moment when some of the intelligence in the room stopped being human, and that question did not come up in the interview, but it is the obvious one to put to her next.

The chance

Every CEO.com Podcast conversation closes on the same premise: that the chances given matter as much as the chances taken. Wiseman went very small.

She was new at Oracle, just back from Utah with a business degree and no natural feel for technology, in a three-week onboarding program that ended with each new hire building an application and demoing it to judges at headquarters. She had worked hard on hers. She stood up, pulled it open, and it was broken.

One of the judges was a sales engineering manager in his thirties named Bob McCormick. He could have used the moment. Instead, he told her he thought she might be in somebody else's UNIX account, because the person before her had never logged out, and suggested she back out, log in as herself, and start the demo over.

"I'm getting a little teary just telling you this story," she said, "because I was blown away by this. Because he could have tortured me, could have made me look like a fool, but he just gave me this chance."

Fifteen years of research into what leaders do to the people around them, and the example she reaches for cost a man 30 seconds and nothing else.

"I've never forgotten that little moment of grace and a little moment of teaching and kindness."

00:00:09 Welcoming Liz Wiseman
00:02:04 What Makes a Great Leader
00:04:40 Coping With Poor Leadership
00:09:12 Leading Yourself to Overcome Bad Bosses
00:12:51 A National Crisis of Trust
00:18:50 Larry Ellison and the Power of Trust
00:25:57 Assessing Elon Musk's Leadership Style
00:29:45 Lessons From the Steve Jobs Biography
00:35:24 Tim Cook and Authentic Leadership
00:38:52 Liz's Current Research on Impact Players
00:40:38 The Bob McCormick Story of Grace

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And<00:03:16.283> I<00:03:16.379> think<00:03:16.539> it's<00:03:16.684> a<00:03:16.860> lot<00:03:17.197> more<00:03:17.406> helpful<00:03:17.727> to<00:03:18.047> look<00:03:18.449> at<00:03:18.609> leadership<00:03:19.026> through<00:03:19.187> the<00:03:19.411> eyes<00:03:19.604> of<00:03:19.732> the<00:03:19.828> customer,<00:03:20.550> like<00:03:20.871> who<00:03:21.336> is<00:03:21.497> the<00:03:21.593> recipient<00:03:22.170> of<00:03:22.299> that<00:03:22.539> leadership,<00:03:23.181> and<00:03:24.882> be<00:03:25.026> more<00:03:25.267> concerned<00:03:25.620> about<00:03:26.807> are<00:03:26.967> people<00:03:27.513> great<00:03:28.074> around<00:03:28.475> that<00:03:28.732> person<00:03:30.416> or<00:03:30.721> is<00:03:30.898> the<00:03:31.058> leader<00:03:31.523> great<00:03:32.005> him<00:03:32.342> or<00:03:32.502> herself?

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And<00:03:33.609> so<00:03:34.411> I<00:03:34.507> think<00:03:34.684> a<00:03:34.812> great<00:03:34.989> leader<00:03:35.309> is<00:03:35.406> someone<00:03:35.935> who<00:03:36.833> kind<00:03:37.010> of<00:03:37.138> brings<00:03:37.379> out<00:03:37.539> greatness<00:03:37.956> in<00:03:38.101> others.

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They're<00:03:39.144> people<00:03:40.524> who<00:03:41.326> may<00:03:41.807> kind<00:03:41.984> of<00:03:42.048> show<00:03:42.353> up<00:03:42.610> big,<00:03:43.011> maybe<00:03:43.316> they<00:03:43.557> are<00:03:43.813> charismatic<00:03:44.632> and<00:03:44.840> visionary<00:03:45.883> and<00:03:46.927> bold<00:03:47.488> and<00:03:47.649> compelling<00:03:48.708> and<00:03:49.013> all<00:03:49.125> of<00:03:49.270> those<00:03:49.430> things<00:03:49.751> that<00:03:49.895> we<00:03:50.313> traditionally<00:03:50.810> see<00:03:51.035> as<00:03:51.179> great<00:03:51.356> leadership.

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Yeah,<00:03:52.303> they<00:03:52.383> can<00:03:52.543> be<00:03:52.704> those<00:03:52.944> things,<00:03:54.068> but<00:03:54.228> do<00:03:54.325> they<00:03:54.421> know<00:03:54.710> how<00:03:54.966> to<00:03:56.010> temper<00:03:56.475> that?

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You<00:03:58.096> know,<00:03:58.240> and<00:03:58.497> do<00:03:58.641> they<00:03:58.674> know<00:03:58.882> how<00:03:58.914> to<00:03:59.059> play<00:03:59.299> big,<00:03:59.685> but<00:03:59.797> do<00:03:59.925> they<00:04:00.086> also<00:04:00.326> know<00:04:00.423> how<00:04:00.519> to<00:04:00.808> pull<00:04:01.065> back<00:04:01.321> and<00:04:01.450> play<00:04:01.626> small,<00:04:02.910> creating<00:04:03.311> room<00:04:03.472> for<00:04:03.632> other<00:04:03.873> people<00:04:04.194> to<00:04:04.354> play<00:04:05.061> big?

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And<00:04:05.783> I,<00:04:06.039> I<00:04:06.200> think<00:04:07.082> this<00:04:07.387> is<00:04:07.707> a—<00:04:09.165> it's<00:04:09.550> the<00:04:09.710> apropos<00:04:10.191> way<00:04:10.367> to<00:04:10.511> look<00:04:10.672> at<00:04:10.768> leadership<00:04:11.249> right<00:04:11.489> now<00:04:11.729> because<00:04:12.050> we<00:04:12.210> are<00:04:12.370> dealing<00:04:12.771> with<00:04:13.652> problems<00:04:14.133> that<00:04:14.229> are<00:04:14.357> just<00:04:14.534> too<00:04:14.694> big<00:04:14.998> for<00:04:15.175> any<00:04:15.479> one<00:04:15.976> person<00:04:16.376> to<00:04:16.521> solve.

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Like,<00:04:17.017> there<00:04:17.178> is<00:04:17.434> no<00:04:17.658> one<00:04:17.979> visionary<00:04:18.620> enough<00:04:19.886> that<00:04:20.142> can<00:04:20.319> see<00:04:21.264> where<00:04:21.440> the<00:04:21.585> tech<00:04:21.825> industry<00:04:22.642> is<00:04:22.786> really<00:04:23.091> headed.

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There<00:04:23.652> is<00:04:23.828> no<00:04:24.229> one<00:04:25.014> visionary<00:04:25.511> enough<00:04:25.831> that<00:04:25.991> they<00:04:26.216> can,<00:04:26.392> like,<00:04:26.712> describe,<00:04:27.994> like,<00:04:28.299> where<00:04:28.571> this<00:04:28.796> is<00:04:28.940> all<00:04:29.180> going.

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I<00:04:30.879> think<00:04:31.103> this<00:04:31.280> is<00:04:31.440> one<00:04:31.744> where<00:04:33.365> You<00:04:33.446> know,<00:04:33.591> we<00:04:33.704> need<00:04:34.317> many<00:04:34.720> eyes<00:04:35.461> on<00:04:35.542> a<00:04:35.558> situation<00:04:36.332> to<00:04:36.429> piece<00:04:36.751> together<00:04:37.396> like<00:04:37.622> what<00:04:37.718> the<00:04:37.863> future's<00:04:38.266> gonna<00:04:38.444> look<00:04:38.670> like.

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If<00:04:40.622> you<00:04:40.768> are<00:04:40.849> a<00:04:40.929> customer<00:04:41.803> of<00:04:42.045> poor<00:04:42.369> leadership,<00:04:45.117> what<00:04:45.279> should<00:04:45.538> you<00:04:45.683> do?

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What<00:04:47.640> do<00:04:47.785> you<00:04:47.947> do?

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Like,<00:04:48.691> and<00:04:48.836> I'm<00:04:49.176> sure<00:04:49.418> that<00:04:49.564> there<00:04:49.645> are<00:04:49.710> people<00:04:50.049> watching<00:04:50.469> or<00:04:50.550> listening<00:04:50.744> to<00:04:50.809> this<00:04:50.938> right<00:04:50.987> now.

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It's<00:04:51.229> like,<00:04:51.423> hey,<00:04:51.682> I'm<00:04:51.844> a<00:04:52.070> customer<00:04:52.571> of<00:04:53.137> poor<00:04:53.364> leadership<00:04:53.720> right<00:04:53.897> now,<00:04:54.172> or<00:04:54.738> I<00:04:54.835> have<00:04:55.159> been<00:04:55.320> in<00:04:55.401> the<00:04:55.563> past.

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And<00:04:57.083> what<00:04:57.261> do<00:04:57.487> I<00:04:57.730> do?

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'Cause<00:04:58.958> I<00:04:59.039> know<00:04:59.201> we<00:04:59.250> talk<00:04:59.532> a<00:04:59.598> lot<00:04:59.848> about<00:05:00.113> like,<00:05:00.346> what<00:05:00.396> does<00:05:00.529> a<00:05:00.612> leader<00:05:00.927> do<00:05:01.027> to<00:05:01.176> improve<00:05:01.608> their<00:05:01.857> leadership?

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But<00:05:02.807> what<00:05:02.888> do<00:05:02.985> you<00:05:03.228> do<00:05:04.104> when<00:05:04.266> you're<00:05:04.363> a<00:05:04.444> customer<00:05:04.930> of<00:05:05.076> poor<00:05:05.319> leadership?

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Yeah,<00:05:07.542> well,<00:05:07.655> okay,<00:05:08.185> that's<00:05:08.667> a<00:05:08.747> fun<00:05:09.053> question.

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And<00:05:10.274> I<00:05:10.450> don't<00:05:11.238> know<00:05:11.398> that<00:05:11.639> anyone's<00:05:11.961> ever<00:05:12.266> asked<00:05:12.684> me<00:05:12.844> that<00:05:13.150> question<00:05:13.567> this<00:05:13.792> way.

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So<00:05:14.114> I<00:05:14.210> think<00:05:14.515> this<00:05:14.692> is<00:05:14.772> particularly<00:05:15.238> interesting.

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Let's<00:05:16.170> talk<00:05:16.315> about<00:05:16.524> what<00:05:17.103> maybe<00:05:17.345> we<00:05:17.507> don't<00:05:17.749> want<00:05:18.056> to<00:05:18.185> do.

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We<00:05:18.476> probably<00:05:19.446> don't<00:05:19.833> want<00:05:20.173> to<00:05:20.399> just<00:05:21.223> quiet<00:05:21.853> quit<00:05:22.176> that<00:05:22.435> situation.

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And<00:05:23.550> that's<00:05:23.792> what<00:05:23.873> I<00:05:23.970> think<00:05:24.212> most<00:05:24.455> people<00:05:24.778> do<00:05:25.247> is<00:05:27.938> they<00:05:28.101> resign<00:05:28.587> themselves<00:05:29.236> to,<00:05:29.706> well,<00:05:30.290> my<00:05:30.452> boss<00:05:30.776> is<00:05:30.857> going<00:05:31.019> to<00:05:31.100> do<00:05:31.327> all<00:05:31.506> the<00:05:31.668> thinking.

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I'll<00:05:32.171> just<00:05:32.446> show<00:05:32.495> up<00:05:32.527> and<00:05:34.626> end<00:05:34.722> the<00:05:34.802> meeting<00:05:35.284> and<00:05:35.445> take<00:05:35.670> notes<00:05:36.088> and<00:05:36.248> do<00:05:36.473> what<00:05:37.694> they<00:05:37.919> ask<00:05:38.257> me<00:05:38.337> to<00:05:38.498> do.

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So<00:05:39.606> giving<00:05:39.928> up<00:05:40.426> is<00:05:40.570> not<00:05:40.763> a<00:05:40.892> good<00:05:41.084> solution<00:05:41.470> because<00:05:42.498> you<00:05:42.595> will<00:05:42.900> end<00:05:43.061> up<00:05:43.318> languishing.

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You<00:05:44.250> will<00:05:44.523> end<00:05:44.909> up<00:05:47.802> atrophying<00:05:48.686> around<00:05:49.088> that<00:05:49.409> leader.

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And<00:05:50.293> when<00:05:50.454> you<00:05:50.615> finally<00:05:51.033> get<00:05:51.274> up<00:05:51.419> the<00:05:51.579> courage<00:05:52.078> to<00:05:52.222> leave,<00:05:53.750> you're<00:05:53.814> going<00:05:53.928> to<00:05:54.009> find<00:05:54.414> that<00:05:54.673> you<00:05:54.916> are<00:05:55.305> leaving<00:05:56.050> in<00:05:56.196> a<00:05:56.439> weakened<00:05:56.925> condition.

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And<00:05:58.804> in<00:05:58.950> some<00:05:59.209> way,<00:05:59.533> like,<00:05:59.922> you<00:06:00.165> become<00:06:00.651> the<00:06:00.813> damaged<00:06:01.542> goods.

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That<00:06:03.048> aren't<00:06:03.304> capable<00:06:04.106> of<00:06:04.251> stepping<00:06:04.668> up<00:06:04.812> and<00:06:04.908> playing<00:06:05.213> as<00:06:05.389> big<00:06:05.855> as<00:06:06.336> you<00:06:06.496> want<00:06:06.673> to.

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So<00:06:07.378> just<00:06:07.555> sitting<00:06:07.876> that<00:06:08.261> out,<00:06:08.662> it's<00:06:09.480> probably<00:06:09.736> not<00:06:09.897> a<00:06:10.025> great<00:06:10.201> strategy.

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There's<00:06:12.142> this,<00:06:13.153> you<00:06:13.249> know,<00:06:14.211> you<00:06:14.356> could<00:06:14.532> just<00:06:14.756> quit<00:06:16.056> and<00:06:16.136> go<00:06:16.360> work<00:06:16.681> elsewhere.

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But<00:06:17.178> the<00:06:17.259> problem<00:06:17.660> with<00:06:17.820> that<00:06:18.446> is<00:06:19.199> if<00:06:19.328> you<00:06:19.568> quit<00:06:19.809> and<00:06:19.889> go<00:06:20.050> work<00:06:20.370> elsewhere,<00:06:21.734> you<00:06:21.766> know,<00:06:21.814> a<00:06:21.830> lot<00:06:22.135> of<00:06:22.215> people<00:06:22.455> go,<00:06:22.632> okay,<00:06:22.792> I'm<00:06:22.969> going<00:06:23.065> to<00:06:23.113> go<00:06:23.273> get—<00:06:24.156> they<00:06:24.316> quit<00:06:24.781> bosses<00:06:25.278> and<00:06:25.359> then<00:06:25.503> they<00:06:25.663> go<00:06:25.840> look<00:06:25.984> for<00:06:26.305> jobs<00:06:27.027> elsewhere.

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But<00:06:27.588> what<00:06:27.781> they<00:06:28.069> really<00:06:28.326> need<00:06:28.486> to<00:06:28.647> do<00:06:28.951> is<00:06:29.048> go<00:06:29.208> shop<00:06:29.593> for<00:06:29.753> a<00:06:29.769> new<00:06:30.010> boss.

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You<00:06:31.070> know,<00:06:31.167> there<00:06:31.280> are<00:06:31.376> too<00:06:31.521> many<00:06:31.698> people<00:06:33.614> looking<00:06:33.936> for<00:06:34.177> jobs<00:06:35.224> rather<00:06:35.562> than<00:06:35.803> looking<00:06:36.109> for<00:06:36.608> what's<00:06:36.930> the<00:06:37.654> culture<00:06:38.121> I<00:06:38.202> want<00:06:38.298> to<00:06:38.379> be<00:06:38.524> part<00:06:38.846> of<00:06:40.069> and<00:06:40.214> who<00:06:40.327> do<00:06:40.440> I<00:06:40.552> want<00:06:40.681> to<00:06:40.778> work<00:06:41.180> for<00:06:41.358> and<00:06:41.583> who<00:06:41.760> would<00:06:41.921> I<00:06:42.082> be<00:06:42.308> willing<00:06:42.872> to<00:06:43.033> work<00:06:43.274> for?

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I<00:06:43.532> think<00:06:43.693> there's<00:06:43.935> way<00:06:44.418> too<00:06:44.579> much<00:06:44.804> emphasis<00:06:45.207> on<00:06:46.270> managers<00:06:46.753> screening<00:06:47.317> employees<00:06:48.106> and<00:06:48.364> not<00:06:48.589> enough<00:06:48.847> emphasis<00:06:49.475> on<00:06:49.540> employees<00:06:50.152> screening<00:06:51.265> like<00:06:51.491> the<00:06:51.572> kind<00:06:51.749> of<00:06:51.782> managers<00:06:52.330> they<00:06:52.475> would<00:06:52.636> want<00:06:52.765> to<00:06:52.862> work<00:06:52.975> with.

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So<00:06:53.588> just<00:06:53.830> quitting<00:06:54.395> is—<00:06:54.911> so<00:06:55.056> quiet<00:06:55.362> quitting<00:06:55.669> is<00:06:55.782> not<00:06:55.959> a<00:06:56.024> great<00:06:56.201> strategy.

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Quitting<00:06:57.298> is<00:06:57.395> not<00:06:57.556> a<00:06:57.620> great<00:06:57.798> strategy.

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The<00:06:58.801> other<00:06:59.479> sort<00:06:59.710> of<00:06:59.743> fight<00:07:00.222> it.

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Is<00:07:01.042> not<00:07:01.203> a<00:07:01.283> great<00:07:01.603> strategy<00:07:02.308> either.

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Um,<00:07:03.606> you<00:07:03.702> know,<00:07:05.048> I<00:07:05.128> think<00:07:05.289> we've<00:07:05.449> all<00:07:05.593> experienced<00:07:06.186> this.

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You<00:07:06.651> know,<00:07:06.715> if<00:07:06.811> you've<00:07:06.971> got<00:07:07.131> like<00:07:07.292> a<00:07:07.308> know-it-all<00:07:09.054> boss,<00:07:09.599> like<00:07:09.775> what<00:07:09.920> happens<00:07:10.256> when<00:07:10.400> you<00:07:10.480> try<00:07:10.657> to<00:07:11.217> argue<00:07:11.602> with<00:07:12.804> a<00:07:12.820> know-it-all?

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They,<00:07:14.727> they<00:07:14.983> tend<00:07:15.464> to,<00:07:15.688> to<00:07:15.929> argue<00:07:16.249> more<00:07:16.666> vehemently.

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What<00:07:17.451> happens<00:07:17.803> if<00:07:17.932> you<00:07:18.092> try<00:07:18.428> to<00:07:19.470> keep<00:07:19.726> a<00:07:19.790> controlling,<00:07:20.511> micromanaging<00:07:21.313> boss<00:07:21.617> out<00:07:21.729> of<00:07:21.873> your<00:07:22.034> work?

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You<00:07:23.235> know,<00:07:23.316> they<00:07:23.476> get<00:07:23.636> suspicious,<00:07:24.357> and<00:07:24.437> so<00:07:24.662> they,<00:07:25.303> they<00:07:25.399> kind<00:07:25.575> of<00:07:25.783> reach<00:07:26.120> in<00:07:26.344> further<00:07:26.825> and<00:07:27.868> When<00:07:28.109> we<00:07:28.928> fight<00:07:29.314> it<00:07:29.651> and<00:07:29.812> try<00:07:29.973> to<00:07:30.615> push<00:07:30.937> people<00:07:31.242> at<00:07:31.338> bay,<00:07:31.579> we<00:07:31.804> end<00:07:31.965> up<00:07:32.061> becoming<00:07:32.624> more<00:07:32.768> of<00:07:32.865> the<00:07:32.945> diminishing<00:07:33.507> leader<00:07:33.813> and<00:07:33.909> we<00:07:34.214> end<00:07:34.455> up<00:07:36.239> creating<00:07:36.624> more<00:07:36.721> of<00:07:36.930> a<00:07:36.946> diminisher<00:07:37.363> above<00:07:37.701> us.

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Like<00:07:38.087> they<00:07:38.328> double<00:07:38.713> down<00:07:39.292> on<00:07:39.453> what<00:07:39.678> they<00:07:39.838> were<00:07:39.999> doing.

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But<00:07:41.542> here's<00:07:42.265> what<00:07:42.426> does<00:07:42.731> work<00:07:43.293> is<00:07:44.193> to<00:07:44.338> decide,<00:07:45.865> you<00:07:45.897> know<00:07:46.090> what,<00:07:47.639> I<00:07:48.381> can't<00:07:48.623> control<00:07:48.946> the<00:07:49.026> kind<00:07:49.268> of<00:07:49.349> leadership<00:07:49.898> I<00:07:49.995> receive<00:07:50.656> in<00:07:50.801> this<00:07:51.189> moment,<00:07:51.592> but<00:07:51.770> I<00:07:51.931> can<00:07:52.157> control<00:07:52.576> the<00:07:52.722> kind<00:07:52.996> of<00:07:53.141> leader<00:07:53.464> that<00:07:53.771> I<00:07:54.029> am<00:07:54.174> going<00:07:54.432> to<00:07:54.674> be,<00:07:54.836> not<00:07:55.142> just<00:07:55.400> for<00:07:55.547> my<00:07:55.832> team,<00:07:57.103> It's<00:07:57.247> not<00:07:57.360> like,<00:07:57.664> okay,<00:07:58.065> my<00:07:58.226> boss<00:07:58.562> above<00:07:58.867> me<00:07:58.947> sucks,<00:07:59.348> so<00:07:59.428> I'll<00:07:59.589> create<00:07:59.829> this<00:08:00.054> little<00:08:00.535> microcosm,<00:08:01.353> like<00:08:01.914> this<00:08:02.139> little<00:08:02.460> thing<00:08:02.780> I<00:08:02.957> want,<00:08:03.181> this<00:08:03.342> little<00:08:03.518> protected<00:08:04.865> sanctuary<00:08:05.683> here.

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It's<00:08:07.592> I'm<00:08:07.768> going<00:08:07.961> to<00:08:08.073> show<00:08:08.233> up<00:08:08.474> in<00:08:08.570> a<00:08:08.715> way—<00:08:10.078> like,<00:08:10.976> I<00:08:11.056> can't<00:08:11.281> control<00:08:11.537> who<00:08:11.698> my<00:08:11.938> leader<00:08:12.403> is<00:08:12.740> necessarily,<00:08:13.285> but<00:08:13.462> I<00:08:13.606> can<00:08:13.767> control<00:08:14.087> the<00:08:14.135> leader<00:08:14.568> that<00:08:15.531> I<00:08:15.707> want<00:08:15.852> to<00:08:15.932> be.

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And<00:08:16.188> I'm<00:08:16.285> going<00:08:16.429> to<00:08:16.509> be<00:08:16.734> the<00:08:16.894> leader<00:08:17.151> that<00:08:17.536> the<00:08:17.632> people<00:08:17.856> on<00:08:17.969> my<00:08:18.177> team<00:08:18.450> need.

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And<00:08:18.899> I'm<00:08:19.059> also<00:08:19.300> going<00:08:19.396> to<00:08:19.460> be<00:08:19.620> the<00:08:19.781> leader<00:08:20.743> that<00:08:20.984> my<00:08:21.321> boss<00:08:21.721> needs.

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And<00:08:23.229> I've<00:08:23.566> seen<00:08:23.726> so<00:08:23.871> many<00:08:24.047> situations<00:08:25.089> where<00:08:26.068> someone<00:08:26.388> decided<00:08:26.917> to<00:08:26.997> be<00:08:27.093> the<00:08:27.205> multiplier<00:08:28.119> up<00:08:29.577> to<00:08:29.737> their<00:08:30.058> boss.

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And,<00:08:30.843> you<00:08:30.875> know,<00:08:31.019> it<00:08:31.179> did<00:08:31.356> not<00:08:31.724> change<00:08:32.125> them.

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It<00:08:32.381> did<00:08:32.541> not<00:08:32.862> turn<00:08:33.166> them<00:08:33.327> into<00:08:33.583> an<00:08:33.663> amazing<00:08:34.224> boss.

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But<00:08:35.730> what<00:08:35.890> it<00:08:35.987> does<00:08:36.227> is<00:08:36.387> it<00:08:36.772> changes<00:08:37.188> the<00:08:37.333> dynamic<00:08:37.973> so<00:08:38.150> that<00:08:38.534> you<00:08:38.791> now<00:08:39.175> are<00:08:39.271> more<00:08:39.512> trusted.

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Um,<00:08:41.355> and<00:08:41.451> instead<00:08:41.771> of<00:08:41.867> like<00:08:42.076> pushing<00:08:42.476> them<00:08:42.636> away,<00:08:43.502> kind<00:08:43.678> of<00:08:43.822> pull<00:08:44.143> them<00:08:44.383> in,<00:08:44.720> give<00:08:44.960> them<00:08:45.136> a<00:08:45.280> role,<00:08:45.681> help<00:08:46.001> focus<00:08:47.283> their<00:08:47.668> energy.

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And<00:08:49.110> when<00:08:49.206> we<00:08:49.367> do<00:08:49.511> that,<00:08:49.671> it<00:08:49.767> changes<00:08:50.168> the<00:08:50.248> dynamic<00:08:50.873> and<00:08:50.953> it<00:08:51.129> gives<00:08:51.514> you<00:08:51.674> more<00:08:51.850> space<00:08:54.086> to<00:08:54.231> be<00:08:54.328> able<00:08:54.635> to<00:08:54.893> do<00:08:55.055> your<00:08:55.217> best<00:08:55.459> work.

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And<00:08:57.058> I<00:08:57.155> think<00:08:57.381> over<00:08:57.559> time,<00:08:57.801> it<00:08:57.947> does<00:08:58.286> change<00:08:59.175> that<00:08:59.417> person.

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But<00:09:01.032> I<00:09:01.178> think,<00:09:02.066> in<00:09:02.309> some<00:09:02.470> ways,<00:09:04.694> be<00:09:04.840> an<00:09:05.001> advocate<00:09:06.453> for<00:09:06.615> the<00:09:06.711> kind<00:09:07.260> of<00:09:07.744> leadership<00:09:08.325> that<00:09:08.631> you<00:09:08.728> would<00:09:08.890> like<00:09:09.115> to<00:09:09.196> see<00:09:09.616> and<00:09:09.761> be<00:09:10.164> an<00:09:10.342> example<00:09:10.761> of<00:09:10.906> that.

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I<00:09:12.756> always<00:09:13.015> think,<00:09:13.501> like,<00:09:14.457> we<00:09:14.619> had<00:09:15.186> Reed<00:09:15.364> Hastings<00:09:15.769> at<00:09:15.866> an<00:09:15.996> event.

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And<00:09:17.535> in<00:09:17.632> the<00:09:17.713> fireside<00:09:18.118> chat,<00:09:18.361> he<00:09:18.523> said,<00:09:19.333> if<00:09:19.495> you<00:09:20.305> can't<00:09:20.548> lead<00:09:20.726> yourself,<00:09:21.423> you're<00:09:21.504> not<00:09:21.601> going<00:09:21.730> to<00:09:21.763> be<00:09:21.909> able<00:09:22.006> to<00:09:22.087> lead<00:09:22.249> others.

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And<00:09:23.824> part<00:09:24.048> of<00:09:24.080> what<00:09:24.224> I<00:09:24.369> heard<00:09:24.545> in<00:09:24.625> your<00:09:24.769> answer<00:09:25.042> there<00:09:25.186> is<00:09:25.347> like,<00:09:25.507> hey,<00:09:25.811> you<00:09:25.908> also<00:09:26.052> have<00:09:26.164> to<00:09:26.308> lead<00:09:26.549> yourself<00:09:27.142> because<00:09:27.495> we're<00:09:27.735> all,<00:09:28.553> we're<00:09:28.777> all<00:09:28.953> leaders<00:09:29.514> in<00:09:29.675> some<00:09:29.915> capacity.

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So<00:09:30.556> if<00:09:30.701> you're<00:09:30.797> a<00:09:30.877> customer<00:09:31.358> of<00:09:31.438> bad<00:09:31.759> leadership,<00:09:33.185> um,<00:09:34.307> you<00:09:34.339> know,<00:09:34.468> how<00:09:34.644> are<00:09:34.788> you<00:09:34.965> leading<00:09:35.285> yourself<00:09:36.263> in<00:09:36.391> order<00:09:36.728> to<00:09:37.113> overcome<00:09:37.594> it?

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Is<00:09:37.914> that<00:09:38.235> kind<00:09:38.507> of<00:09:38.812> another<00:09:39.116> way<00:09:39.148> to<00:09:39.293> put<00:09:39.453> it<00:09:39.533> there?

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Well,<00:09:40.735> I<00:09:40.816> think<00:09:41.056> so.

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And<00:09:42.002> it's,<00:09:43.220> you<00:09:43.300> know,<00:09:43.525> here's<00:09:43.701> the<00:09:43.861> thing<00:09:44.102> I<00:09:44.326> think<00:09:46.009> I've<00:09:46.186> learned<00:09:46.490> through<00:09:46.651> so<00:09:46.763> much<00:09:47.148> of<00:09:47.228> my<00:09:47.468> research,<00:09:48.093> and<00:09:48.494> it's<00:09:48.654> one<00:09:48.767> of<00:09:48.831> those<00:09:49.055> things<00:09:49.264> like<00:09:49.472> if<00:09:49.568> you<00:09:49.696> had<00:09:49.809> a<00:09:49.937> chance<00:09:50.338> to<00:09:50.498> take<00:09:50.738> out<00:09:50.851> a<00:09:50.995> billboard<00:09:51.796> or<00:09:51.957> to<00:09:52.101> stand<00:09:52.582> on<00:09:52.678> top<00:09:53.463> of<00:09:53.544> the<00:09:53.640> tallest<00:09:54.041> building<00:09:54.361> in<00:09:54.570> down<00:09:54.826> and<00:09:54.922> like<00:09:55.179> shout<00:09:56.365> loudly.

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Like,<00:09:57.568> here's<00:09:57.809> the<00:09:57.953> thing<00:09:58.210> I<00:09:58.370> would<00:09:58.995> shout<00:09:59.476> out<00:09:59.877> is<00:10:01.000> that<00:10:01.256> we<00:10:01.481> have<00:10:01.673> so<00:10:02.074> much<00:10:02.443> more<00:10:02.619> power<00:10:03.501> than<00:10:03.742> we<00:10:03.902> think<00:10:04.688> we<00:10:04.784> have.

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And<00:10:05.987> it<00:10:06.083> is<00:10:06.163> so<00:10:06.532> easy<00:10:06.869> when<00:10:07.029> we've<00:10:07.254> got<00:10:07.414> a<00:10:07.430> bad<00:10:07.670> boss<00:10:08.135> to<00:10:08.232> get<00:10:08.392> ourselves<00:10:08.793> in<00:10:08.873> this<00:10:09.033> victim<00:10:09.338> mentality<00:10:09.996> of<00:10:10.236> I<00:10:10.316> am<00:10:10.461> like<00:10:10.701> the<00:10:10.797> victim<00:10:11.198> of<00:10:11.343> my<00:10:11.519> boss's<00:10:11.840> bad<00:10:12.080> leadership.

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And<00:10:13.267> actually<00:10:13.764> really<00:10:15.031> to<00:10:15.127> remind<00:10:15.432> ourselves,<00:10:16.073> no,<00:10:16.314> actually,<00:10:17.051> you<00:10:17.147> know,<00:10:17.276> my<00:10:17.516> boss<00:10:17.837> is<00:10:17.997> not<00:10:18.254> in<00:10:18.318> charge<00:10:18.655> of<00:10:18.799> my<00:10:19.040> work.

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I'm<00:10:20.258> in<00:10:20.403> charge<00:10:20.964> of<00:10:21.124> my<00:10:21.365> work.

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Let<00:10:22.424> me<00:10:22.584> go<00:10:23.210> kind<00:10:23.370> of<00:10:23.531> around<00:10:24.333> this<00:10:24.494> way,<00:10:24.654> Glenn,<00:10:25.055> is<00:10:26.034> in<00:10:26.435> the<00:10:26.500> research<00:10:26.901> I<00:10:26.997> did<00:10:27.222> for<00:10:27.318> this<00:10:27.479> book,<00:10:27.864> Impact<00:10:28.201> Players,<00:10:28.762> I<00:10:28.923> interviewed<00:10:29.212> 170<00:10:29.886> managers<00:10:30.592> and<00:10:30.833> asked<00:10:31.170> them,<00:10:32.116> what<00:10:32.277> is<00:10:32.373> it<00:10:32.534> that<00:10:32.694> people<00:10:33.095> do<00:10:33.400> that<00:10:34.283> makes<00:10:34.459> your<00:10:34.604> job<00:10:34.780> hard<00:10:35.181> that<00:10:35.406> they<00:10:35.583> kind<00:10:35.823> of<00:10:35.904> hate?

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That<00:10:37.428> you<00:10:37.589> as<00:10:37.669> a<00:10:37.733> manager<00:10:38.295> hate<00:10:38.552> when<00:10:38.712> people<00:10:39.033> do<00:10:39.209> this<00:10:39.996> versus<00:10:40.638> what<00:10:40.798> is<00:10:40.959> it<00:10:41.039> that<00:10:41.183> people<00:10:41.424> on<00:10:41.520> your<00:10:41.681> team<00:10:42.002> do<00:10:42.242> that<00:10:42.403> makes<00:10:42.628> your<00:10:42.788> job<00:10:43.831> easy<00:10:44.329> and<00:10:44.473> delightful,<00:10:45.147> makes<00:10:45.452> you<00:10:45.677> just<00:10:45.853> grateful<00:10:46.335> to<00:10:46.575> be<00:10:47.057> a<00:10:47.137> boss<00:10:47.618> and<00:10:47.763> a<00:10:47.859> leader?

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And<00:10:49.689> the<00:10:49.865> things<00:10:50.251> that<00:10:50.491> they<00:10:50.588> said<00:10:51.053> that<00:10:51.230> people<00:10:51.551> do<00:10:51.775> that<00:10:51.952> they<00:10:52.273> appreciate<00:10:53.060> are<00:10:53.156> things<00:10:53.557> like<00:10:55.002> find<00:10:55.242> problems<00:10:55.965> and<00:10:56.109> fix<00:10:56.446> it,<00:10:57.169> do<00:10:57.329> things<00:10:57.650> before<00:10:58.116> I<00:10:58.356> ask<00:10:58.613> them<00:10:59.014> to<00:10:59.175> do<00:10:59.400> it,<00:10:59.656> follow<00:11:00.042> up<00:11:00.202> without<00:11:00.619> being<00:11:01.245> asked,<00:11:02.128> like<00:11:02.626> chase<00:11:03.011> after<00:11:03.188> problems.

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And<00:11:03.894> when<00:11:03.990> I<00:11:04.151> looked<00:11:04.391> at<00:11:04.488> all<00:11:04.616> of<00:11:04.809> this,<00:11:05.258> it<00:11:05.354> just<00:11:05.579> became<00:11:05.980> so<00:11:06.157> clear<00:11:06.462> to<00:11:06.542> me,<00:11:06.783> Clint,<00:11:08.163> managers<00:11:08.709> don't<00:11:08.805> like<00:11:09.046> managing<00:11:09.528> people.

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They<00:11:11.293> don't<00:11:11.518> want<00:11:11.646> to<00:11:11.759> have<00:11:11.999> to<00:11:12.481> tell<00:11:12.738> people<00:11:13.059> what<00:11:13.283> to<00:11:13.444> do.

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They<00:11:13.717> don't<00:11:13.861> want<00:11:14.006> to<00:11:14.086> be<00:11:14.182> like,<00:11:14.423> okay,<00:11:14.664> see<00:11:14.905> over<00:11:15.065> there,<00:11:15.386> I<00:11:15.402> need<00:11:15.691> you<00:11:15.771> to<00:11:15.868> do<00:11:16.092> that.

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And<00:11:16.574> here's<00:11:16.750> how<00:11:16.991> we<00:11:17.216> want—<00:11:17.392> like,<00:11:17.954> we've<00:11:18.195> created<00:11:18.757> in<00:11:18.821> our<00:11:18.917> mind<00:11:19.479> this<00:11:21.004> I<00:11:21.020> don't<00:11:21.149> know,<00:11:21.245> a<00:11:21.261> stereotype<00:11:22.145> of<00:11:22.289> this<00:11:22.530> uber<00:11:23.574> bossy<00:11:24.136> boss.

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And<00:11:25.758> I<00:11:26.047> think<00:11:26.705> people<00:11:27.027> fall<00:11:27.428> into<00:11:27.733> that<00:11:28.135> role,<00:11:29.275> but<00:11:29.435> that's<00:11:29.676> not<00:11:29.901> the<00:11:30.062> role<00:11:30.238> people<00:11:30.800> want<00:11:31.186> to<00:11:31.347> be<00:11:31.587> in.

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And<00:11:33.049> when<00:11:33.852> we<00:11:34.012> show<00:11:34.398> up<00:11:34.799> and<00:11:35.056> we<00:11:35.201> kind<00:11:35.458> of<00:11:35.699> lead<00:11:36.036> ourselves,<00:11:36.807> we<00:11:37.224> look<00:11:37.449> around,<00:11:37.851> we<00:11:37.947> understand<00:11:38.348> what's<00:11:38.509> important.

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We<00:11:39.697> figure<00:11:40.019> out<00:11:40.115> not<00:11:40.340> just<00:11:40.500> how<00:11:40.532> to<00:11:40.677> do<00:11:40.773> our<00:11:40.982> job,<00:11:41.239> but<00:11:41.464> to<00:11:41.560> do<00:11:41.721> the<00:11:41.865> job<00:11:42.749> that's<00:11:42.990> needed.

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When<00:11:43.712> we<00:11:43.873> go<00:11:44.114> after<00:11:44.371> problems,<00:11:45.013> even<00:11:45.254> though<00:11:45.414> no<00:11:45.575> one<00:11:45.800> asked<00:11:46.073> us<00:11:46.217> to<00:11:46.378> do<00:11:46.603> it,<00:11:46.763> when<00:11:46.940> we<00:11:47.895> step<00:11:48.221> up<00:11:48.335> and<00:11:48.465> take<00:11:48.709> the<00:11:48.807> lead<00:11:49.132> when<00:11:49.295> there's<00:11:49.523> this,<00:11:49.686> like,<00:11:49.930> leaderless<00:11:50.369> situation,<00:11:50.987> rather<00:11:51.232> than<00:11:51.329> wait<00:11:51.573> for<00:11:51.655> the<00:11:51.801> boss<00:11:52.062> to<00:11:52.224> tell<00:11:52.468> us<00:11:52.631> we're<00:11:52.696> in<00:11:52.794> charge.

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Like,<00:11:53.964> when<00:11:54.287> we<00:11:55.483> take<00:11:55.726> the<00:11:55.823> initiative<00:11:56.469> and<00:11:56.550> we<00:11:56.695> take<00:11:57.180> ownership<00:11:57.988> and<00:11:58.731> we<00:11:58.893> kind<00:11:59.151> of<00:11:59.927> just<00:12:00.105> decide<00:12:01.220> to<00:12:01.317> be<00:12:01.462> in<00:12:01.543> charge<00:12:01.866> of<00:12:01.947> our<00:12:02.189> own<00:12:02.286> work,<00:12:04.030> our<00:12:04.062> bosses<00:12:04.530> love<00:12:04.692> it.

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Now,<00:12:07.276> that's<00:12:07.470> not<00:12:07.615> to<00:12:07.696> say<00:12:07.938> every<00:12:08.180> boss<00:12:08.907> loves<00:12:09.149> that,<00:12:09.327> so<00:12:09.489> there<00:12:09.634> are<00:12:09.795> probably<00:12:10.118> some<00:12:10.829> who—<00:12:10.991> well,<00:12:11.960> I<00:12:11.992> don't<00:12:12.202> know,<00:12:12.363> we<00:12:12.460> could<00:12:13.783> get<00:12:13.943> into<00:12:14.184> sort<00:12:14.360> of<00:12:14.488> like<00:12:15.610> what,<00:12:15.883> like<00:12:17.149> what<00:12:17.325> maybe<00:12:17.630> went<00:12:17.950> wrong<00:12:18.287> in<00:12:18.415> their<00:12:18.832> career<00:12:19.248> that<00:12:19.617> caused<00:12:20.034> them<00:12:20.354> to<00:12:20.819> feel<00:12:21.059> this<00:12:21.220> need<00:12:21.396> to<00:12:21.476> be<00:12:21.556> so<00:12:21.797> controlling<00:12:22.277> and<00:12:22.358> micromanaging.

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But<00:12:24.185> most<00:12:24.377> of<00:12:24.425> the<00:12:24.521> time<00:12:24.922> it's<00:12:25.307> appreciated.

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So<00:12:27.150> yeah,<00:12:27.406> it's<00:12:27.566> like,<00:12:28.929> I<00:12:28.993> think<00:12:29.730> we<00:12:29.826> have<00:12:29.970> to<00:12:30.115> lead<00:12:30.275> ourselves<00:12:31.573> in<00:12:31.733> many<00:12:32.038> ways.

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And<00:12:32.936> if<00:12:33.096> we<00:12:33.961> understand<00:12:34.378> what<00:12:34.490> our<00:12:34.618> boss<00:12:34.859> is<00:12:34.955> trying<00:12:35.179> to<00:12:35.259> accomplish<00:12:36.141> fundamentally,<00:12:37.984> like<00:12:38.305> really,<00:12:38.689> really<00:12:38.930> understand<00:12:39.346> what's<00:12:39.603> important,<00:12:40.052> what's<00:12:40.228> important<00:12:40.613> to<00:12:40.645> the<00:12:40.789> organization,<00:12:41.350> what's<00:12:41.510> important<00:12:41.815> to<00:12:41.911> them,<00:12:42.953> like<00:12:43.273> we<00:12:43.434> can<00:12:43.578> take<00:12:43.754> a<00:12:44.219> lot<00:12:44.459> more<00:12:44.620> control<00:12:45.421> of<00:12:45.453> our<00:12:45.678> work<00:12:46.078> and<00:12:46.159> we<00:12:46.303> can<00:12:46.399> be<00:12:46.479> a<00:12:46.720> lot<00:12:46.944> more<00:12:47.056> in<00:12:47.185> charge<00:12:47.922> of<00:12:47.986> our<00:12:48.146> work<00:12:48.339> experience.

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Absolutely.

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If<00:12:51.272> you<00:12:51.368> think<00:12:51.529> about<00:12:51.689> this<00:12:51.849> idea<00:12:52.475> of—<00:12:52.875> which<00:12:53.052> I<00:12:53.196> love—<00:12:53.533> these<00:12:53.837> customers<00:12:54.655> of<00:12:54.815> leadership,<00:12:55.520> and<00:12:55.600> you<00:12:55.697> pull<00:12:55.873> it<00:12:56.081> out<00:12:56.402> outside<00:12:56.674> of<00:12:56.739> just<00:12:56.915> a<00:12:56.979> company.

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And,<00:12:58.326> uh,<00:12:58.662> to<00:12:58.742> begin<00:12:58.983> this<00:12:59.143> conversation,<00:12:59.528> you<00:12:59.624> were<00:12:59.704> talking<00:12:59.864> about,<00:13:00.025> hey,<00:13:00.249> look<00:13:00.409> at<00:13:00.442> society<00:13:01.211> right<00:13:01.387> now<00:13:01.868> and<00:13:01.932> our<00:13:02.734> lack<00:13:03.006> of<00:13:03.151> leadership.

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Or<00:13:03.888> I<00:13:03.904> don't<00:13:04.417> want<00:13:04.497> to<00:13:04.577> put<00:13:04.690> words<00:13:04.850> in<00:13:04.882> your<00:13:04.930> mouth,<00:13:05.074> but<00:13:05.218> you<00:13:05.315> said<00:13:05.475> something<00:13:05.715> around,<00:13:06.100> around,<00:13:06.822> uh,<00:13:07.383> those,<00:13:08.585> uh,<00:13:08.761> kind<00:13:08.937> of<00:13:09.018> around<00:13:09.322> that<00:13:09.547> phrase.

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And<00:13:10.364> as<00:13:10.508> you<00:13:10.605> look<00:13:10.765> back<00:13:11.005> at,<00:13:11.069> like,<00:13:11.262> now<00:13:11.406> let's<00:13:11.631> go<00:13:11.743> macro<00:13:12.208> level<00:13:12.528> and<00:13:12.849> maybe<00:13:13.089> just<00:13:13.250> like<00:13:13.410> the<00:13:13.474> United<00:13:13.827> States<00:13:14.308> for<00:13:14.372> example,<00:13:15.335> there's<00:13:15.576> a<00:13:15.721> lot<00:13:15.897> of<00:13:16.122> unhappy<00:13:16.620> customers<00:13:18.531> right<00:13:18.723> now.

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How—<00:13:20.859> I<00:13:20.891> mean,<00:13:21.517> I<00:13:21.533> mean,<00:13:21.822> we're<00:13:21.919> not<00:13:22.143> political,<00:13:22.866> obviously,<00:13:23.364> but<00:13:23.765> I<00:13:23.845> mean,<00:13:24.006> just,<00:13:25.355> it<00:13:25.435> seems<00:13:25.756> like<00:13:25.933> the<00:13:26.077> challenge<00:13:27.217> and<00:13:27.362> the<00:13:27.603> reason<00:13:28.181> why<00:13:28.566> that's<00:13:28.903> true<00:13:29.770> is<00:13:30.011> trust.

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The<00:13:31.472> customers<00:13:32.098> have<00:13:32.259> lost<00:13:32.596> trust<00:13:33.383> in<00:13:33.624> what,<00:13:34.427> you<00:13:34.459> know,<00:13:34.828> the<00:13:35.085> leaders<00:13:35.711> are<00:13:36.048> providing<00:13:37.253> or<00:13:37.413> even<00:13:37.670> saying.

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How<00:13:40.064> do<00:13:40.209> you<00:13:40.789> rebuild<00:13:41.337> trust<00:13:43.272> once<00:13:43.465> it's<00:13:43.675> lost?

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Oh,<00:13:46.067> um,<00:13:47.371> I<00:13:47.452> mean,<00:13:47.677> I<00:13:47.758> think<00:13:47.919> we<00:13:48.015> are<00:13:48.176> having<00:13:48.563> a<00:13:48.740> massive<00:13:49.706> crisis<00:13:50.753> of<00:13:50.930> leadership,<00:13:51.477> you<00:13:51.574> know,<00:13:51.638> a<00:13:51.719> crisis<00:13:52.218> of<00:13:52.363> faith<00:13:52.830> in<00:13:53.087> institutions.

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And,<00:13:54.778> you<00:13:54.939> know,<00:13:55.084> at<00:13:55.165> this<00:13:55.310> point<00:13:55.647> when<00:13:55.889> like,<00:13:56.951> you<00:13:57.031> know,<00:13:57.578> who<00:13:57.820> would<00:13:57.997> be<00:13:58.158> the,<00:13:59.107> the<00:13:59.268> best<00:13:59.590> choice<00:13:59.992> for<00:14:00.185> the<00:14:00.265> next<00:14:00.571> president<00:14:01.199> of<00:14:01.231> the<00:14:01.295> United<00:14:01.762> States?

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I<00:14:03.248> mean,<00:14:03.362> I<00:14:03.411> think<00:14:03.575> the<00:14:03.738> answer<00:14:03.984> to<00:14:04.065> that<00:14:04.164> question<00:14:04.654> is<00:14:05.456> no<00:14:05.701> one,<00:14:06.290> like<00:14:06.535> none<00:14:06.764> of<00:14:06.863> the<00:14:06.912> above.

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It's<00:14:07.599> like,<00:14:08.653> I<00:14:08.717> was<00:14:08.814> actually<00:14:09.055> thinking<00:14:09.215> the<00:14:09.279> other<00:14:09.376> day,<00:14:09.536> like,<00:14:10.339> what<00:14:10.403> would<00:14:10.580> it<00:14:10.644> be<00:14:10.740> like<00:14:10.869> if<00:14:10.981> we<00:14:11.061> just<00:14:11.286> didn't<00:14:11.543> have<00:14:11.800> a<00:14:11.944> president?

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And<00:14:12.923> I<00:14:12.972> don't<00:14:13.887> know,<00:14:14.111> Clint,<00:14:14.336> if<00:14:14.416> you<00:14:14.513> saw<00:14:14.738> this<00:14:14.914> piece,<00:14:15.171> it<00:14:15.235> was<00:14:15.380> in<00:14:15.460> The<00:14:15.492> New<00:14:15.620> York<00:14:15.877> Times.

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It<00:14:16.680> was<00:14:16.905> written<00:14:17.081> by<00:14:18.029> my<00:14:18.125> friend<00:14:18.301> and<00:14:18.430> colleague<00:14:18.911> Adam<00:14:19.152> Grant,<00:14:20.051> who<00:14:20.437> made<00:14:20.677> this<00:14:20.854> case<00:14:21.319> for,<00:14:22.122> you<00:14:22.154> know,<00:14:22.299> we<00:14:22.459> would<00:14:22.620> do<00:14:22.700> a<00:14:22.845> lot<00:14:23.021> better<00:14:23.567> out<00:14:23.744> in<00:14:24.049> our<00:14:25.028> public<00:14:25.509> leadership<00:14:26.071> if<00:14:26.232> instead<00:14:26.633> of<00:14:26.713> electing<00:14:27.275> leaders,<00:14:27.661> we<00:14:27.837> just<00:14:28.158> chose<00:14:28.544> them<00:14:28.720> at<00:14:28.945> random.

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And<00:14:30.165> it's<00:14:30.309> actually<00:14:30.566> not<00:14:31.754> a<00:14:31.770> satirical<00:14:32.573> piece.

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He's<00:14:33.215> making<00:14:33.536> the<00:14:33.697> case<00:14:34.178> that<00:14:35.223> like<00:14:35.401> when<00:14:35.530> people<00:14:35.853> get<00:14:36.031> elected,<00:14:36.743> it<00:14:37.001> kind<00:14:37.179> of<00:14:37.244> goes<00:14:37.551> to<00:14:37.648> their<00:14:37.874> head<00:14:38.925> and<00:14:39.572> that<00:14:40.009> somehow<00:14:40.397> when<00:14:40.558> people<00:14:40.882> are<00:14:41.027> chosen<00:14:41.431> at<00:14:41.528> random,<00:14:41.836> much<00:14:42.078> like<00:14:42.256> a<00:14:42.401> jury,<00:14:43.810> people<00:14:44.003> behave<00:14:44.486> in<00:14:44.631> much<00:14:44.889> more<00:14:45.130> responsible<00:14:45.775> ways<00:14:46.161> because<00:14:46.355> they<00:14:46.484> don't<00:14:46.661> see<00:14:46.902> themselves<00:14:47.466> as<00:14:47.692> like<00:14:48.288> superior,<00:14:49.077> this<00:14:49.303> sort<00:14:49.464> of<00:14:49.883> victor.

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So<00:14:50.366> we're<00:14:50.511> having<00:14:50.833> this<00:14:51.010> massive<00:14:51.494> crisis<00:14:51.977> in<00:14:52.138> leadership<00:14:52.846> and<00:14:54.791> I<00:14:54.952> don't<00:14:55.193> know<00:14:55.434> what<00:14:55.594> the<00:14:55.739> answer<00:14:56.157> is<00:14:56.478> like<00:14:57.507> at<00:14:57.860> a<00:14:57.925> national<00:14:58.728> level,<00:14:59.130> like<00:14:59.773> what<00:15:00.014> needs<00:15:00.255> to<00:15:00.400> happen<00:15:00.817> there,<00:15:01.300> who<00:15:01.476> is<00:15:01.685> the<00:15:01.766> right<00:15:02.629> person<00:15:03.035> for<00:15:03.136> that<00:15:03.457> job.

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I'm<00:15:04.348> not<00:15:04.621> sure<00:15:04.669> it's<00:15:04.813> a<00:15:04.893> job<00:15:05.133> that<00:15:05.294> anyone<00:15:05.774> can<00:15:05.935> be<00:15:06.191> successful<00:15:06.960> at<00:15:07.040> right<00:15:07.217> now.

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But<00:15:08.803> when<00:15:08.899> it<00:15:08.979> comes<00:15:09.236> to<00:15:09.380> rebuilding<00:15:09.925> trust,<00:15:11.367> we,<00:15:11.543> I<00:15:11.687> think<00:15:11.863> we<00:15:12.088> often<00:15:12.408> think<00:15:12.584> of<00:15:12.745> this<00:15:13.225> backward.

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We<00:15:14.011> think<00:15:14.347> about,<00:15:14.988> okay,<00:15:15.773> what<00:15:15.885> do<00:15:16.094> I<00:15:16.190> need<00:15:16.430> to<00:15:16.590> do<00:15:17.295> to<00:15:17.456> get<00:15:17.632> people<00:15:18.017> to<00:15:18.177> trust<00:15:19.090> me?

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Because<00:15:20.837> that's<00:15:21.013> a<00:15:21.141> classic<00:15:21.574> view<00:15:21.958> of<00:15:22.343> version<00:15:22.599> of<00:15:22.744> trust,<00:15:23.080> which<00:15:23.256> is<00:15:23.384> like,<00:15:23.625> here's<00:15:23.945> what<00:15:24.186> makes<00:15:24.586> somebody<00:15:25.724> trustworthy.

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And<00:15:27.647> what<00:15:27.871> I<00:15:27.967> find<00:15:29.313> is<00:15:29.474> that<00:15:29.650> the<00:15:29.810> best<00:15:30.130> leaders<00:15:31.172> they<00:15:31.493> earn<00:15:31.717> that<00:15:31.958> trust<00:15:32.679> by<00:15:32.855> trusting<00:15:33.336> other<00:15:33.561> people.

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And<00:15:35.003> it's,<00:15:35.244> you<00:15:35.324> know,<00:15:35.420> one<00:15:35.596> of<00:15:35.725> the<00:15:35.885> things<00:15:36.141> that<00:15:36.382> is<00:15:36.606> at<00:15:36.766> the<00:15:36.927> core<00:15:37.263> of<00:15:37.408> this<00:15:37.584> concept<00:15:38.530> of<00:15:38.770> multiplier<00:15:39.347> leaders.

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Yes,<00:15:41.351> we<00:15:41.495> trust<00:15:41.896> them.

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We<00:15:42.152> tend<00:15:42.377> to<00:15:42.457> do<00:15:42.537> our<00:15:42.713> best<00:15:43.194> work<00:15:43.419> for<00:15:43.595> them,<00:15:44.781> but<00:15:44.942> their<00:15:45.038> focus<00:15:45.583> is<00:15:45.823> on<00:15:46.064> other<00:15:46.304> people.

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And<00:15:47.041> essentially<00:15:47.602> the<00:15:47.747> way<00:15:47.923> they're<00:15:48.324> operating<00:15:49.831> is<00:15:49.991> they<00:15:50.231> are<00:15:50.408> giving<00:15:50.873> other<00:15:51.129> people<00:15:51.834> their<00:15:52.091> trust.

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It's<00:15:54.351> like<00:15:54.495> saying,<00:15:54.880> I'm<00:15:54.976> gonna<00:15:55.136> put<00:15:55.441> you<00:15:55.537> in<00:15:55.617> charge<00:15:55.954> of<00:15:56.082> this<00:15:56.258> because<00:15:56.884> I<00:15:57.140> trust<00:15:58.264> that<00:15:58.425> you're<00:15:58.521> gonna<00:15:59.375> do<00:15:59.536> a<00:15:59.616> good<00:15:59.858> job.

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Um,<00:16:00.904> it<00:16:00.936> reminds<00:16:01.242> me<00:16:01.387> of<00:16:01.822> someone<00:16:02.192> who<00:16:02.289> worked<00:16:02.514> for<00:16:02.675> John<00:16:02.917> Chambers<00:16:03.335> said<00:16:03.722> that<00:16:03.899> Chambers<00:16:04.366> used<00:16:04.543> to<00:16:04.623> say<00:16:04.849> to<00:16:04.929> him,<00:16:05.171> you<00:16:05.203> know,<00:16:06.555> I<00:16:06.636> think<00:16:06.861> you're<00:16:06.942> going<00:16:07.038> to<00:16:07.119> surprise<00:16:07.672> me<00:16:07.843> on<00:16:07.946> the<00:16:08.185> upside,<00:16:10.264> which<00:16:10.442> is<00:16:10.587> communicating<00:16:11.312> trust.

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Chambers<00:16:12.343> also<00:16:12.584> said<00:16:12.762> to<00:16:12.842> the<00:16:12.939> same<00:16:13.648> man,<00:16:14.034> you<00:16:14.066> know<00:16:14.211> what,<00:16:14.373> when<00:16:14.469> it<00:16:14.598> comes<00:16:14.775> to<00:16:14.920> this<00:16:15.097> part<00:16:15.275> of<00:16:15.339> the<00:16:15.420> business,<00:16:16.064> you<00:16:16.709> get<00:16:16.934> 51%<00:16:17.659> of<00:16:17.820> the<00:16:17.901> vote<00:16:19.190> and<00:16:19.254> 100%<00:16:19.996> of<00:16:20.028> the<00:16:20.173> accountability.

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So<00:16:22.414> like,<00:16:22.591> this<00:16:22.817> is<00:16:22.914> a<00:16:22.994> leader<00:16:23.236> who's<00:16:23.414> not<00:16:23.639> saying<00:16:24.352> Trust<00:16:24.818> me,<00:16:25.637> I<00:16:25.733> know<00:16:26.038> where<00:16:26.263> we're<00:16:26.440> going.

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It's<00:16:27.146> saying,<00:16:27.965> I<00:16:28.126> trust<00:16:28.463> you.

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Now,<00:16:30.037> Clint,<00:16:30.278> when<00:16:30.454> I<00:16:30.856> started<00:16:31.402> my,<00:16:32.461> my<00:16:32.606> management<00:16:33.184> career,<00:16:33.553> I<00:16:33.569> was<00:16:33.730> really<00:16:33.971> young,<00:16:34.372> didn't<00:16:34.790> know<00:16:34.870> what<00:16:35.015> I<00:16:35.111> was<00:16:35.255> doing.

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I,<00:16:36.074> um,<00:16:37.504> I<00:16:37.680> organized<00:16:39.206> a<00:16:39.286> management<00:16:39.752> training<00:16:39.928> class.

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We<00:16:40.330> brought<00:16:40.555> in<00:16:40.715> an<00:16:40.956> outside<00:16:42.899> trainer<00:16:43.445> to<00:16:43.541> teach<00:16:43.782> this<00:16:44.007> class,<00:16:44.424> and<00:16:44.649> I<00:16:44.890> will<00:16:45.131> never<00:16:45.468> forget<00:16:45.950> this<00:16:46.111> class<00:16:46.592> because<00:16:47.781> what<00:16:48.021> this<00:16:48.905> trainer<00:16:49.322> said<00:16:49.707> is,<00:16:49.804> your<00:16:49.964> job<00:16:50.302> as<00:16:50.446> a<00:16:50.526> leader<00:16:51.233> is<00:16:51.554> to<00:16:52.036> you<00:16:52.132> know,<00:16:52.276> kind<00:16:52.453> of<00:16:52.678> have<00:16:52.870> a<00:16:53.015> vision<00:16:53.961> of<00:16:54.058> a<00:16:54.138> better<00:16:54.379> place<00:16:55.967> and<00:16:56.786> to<00:16:56.946> take<00:16:57.251> your<00:16:57.347> team<00:16:57.668> there.

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And<00:16:58.310> then<00:16:58.631> for<00:16:58.872> effect,<00:17:00.220> he<00:17:01.119> jumps<00:17:01.520> up<00:17:01.680> on<00:17:01.841> the<00:17:01.985> table,<00:17:03.670> which<00:17:03.927> I've<00:17:04.152> organized<00:17:04.633> this<00:17:04.809> class,<00:17:05.050> and<00:17:05.195> I<00:17:05.291> have<00:17:05.451> to<00:17:05.532> say,<00:17:05.772> by<00:17:05.933> the<00:17:06.013> way,<00:17:06.173> this<00:17:06.334> is<00:17:06.430> like<00:17:06.960> 50<00:17:07.441> yards<00:17:07.858> from<00:17:08.083> Larry<00:17:08.340> Ellison's<00:17:09.046> office.

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This<00:17:09.543> is<00:17:09.704> up<00:17:09.864> on<00:17:09.945> the<00:17:10.089> 11th<00:17:10.506> floor<00:17:10.811> of<00:17:10.907> the<00:17:11.068> 500<00:17:11.533> Oracle<00:17:11.790> Parkway<00:17:12.271> building,<00:17:12.897> you<00:17:12.929> know,<00:17:13.058> where<00:17:13.299> Larry's<00:17:14.037> executive<00:17:14.502> suite<00:17:14.823> is.

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And<00:17:15.304> I'm<00:17:15.401> now<00:17:15.561> running<00:17:15.802> this<00:17:16.043> program,<00:17:16.749> and<00:17:17.326> I<00:17:17.407> got<00:17:17.663> some<00:17:17.952> outside<00:17:18.273> consultant.

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He's<00:17:19.535> Up<00:17:19.760> on<00:17:19.841> the<00:17:19.937> table<00:17:20.662> and<00:17:20.727> he<00:17:20.888> jumps<00:17:21.146> up<00:17:21.307> on<00:17:21.452> the<00:17:21.532> table<00:17:22.676> and<00:17:23.063> he<00:17:23.627> reaches<00:17:24.030> out<00:17:24.191> his<00:17:24.352> hand<00:17:24.771> like<00:17:25.013> this<00:17:25.415> and<00:17:25.480> he<00:17:25.577> said,<00:17:25.802> your<00:17:25.979> job<00:17:26.237> is<00:17:26.382> a—<00:17:26.543> and<00:17:26.624> he<00:17:26.769> kind<00:17:27.027> of<00:17:27.091> is<00:17:27.172> like<00:17:27.429> bending<00:17:27.978> over,<00:17:28.722> extending<00:17:29.433> his<00:17:29.595> hand.

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He<00:17:29.934> said,<00:17:30.419> your<00:17:30.564> job<00:17:30.758> as<00:17:30.888> a<00:17:30.985> leader<00:17:31.308> is<00:17:31.453> to<00:17:31.631> extend<00:17:33.151> the<00:17:33.248> hand<00:17:33.716> of<00:17:33.959> greatness<00:17:34.783> to<00:17:34.929> your<00:17:35.106> team<00:17:35.575> and<00:17:35.672> say,<00:17:36.222> I<00:17:36.400> know<00:17:36.642> a<00:17:36.787> better<00:17:37.192> place.

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Come<00:17:39.611> with<00:17:39.844> me<00:17:39.944> and<00:17:40.043> I'll<00:17:40.193> take<00:17:40.525> you<00:17:40.691> there.

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And<00:17:43.419> I<00:17:43.580> was<00:17:43.741> just<00:17:43.918> not<00:17:44.096> upset<00:17:44.869> by<00:17:44.965> the<00:17:45.126> fact<00:17:45.287> that<00:17:45.432> he<00:17:45.513> was<00:17:45.754> up<00:17:45.851> on<00:17:45.931> this<00:17:46.157> table<00:17:46.559> and<00:17:46.721> that<00:17:46.914> Larry<00:17:47.220> was<00:17:47.381> going<00:17:47.477> to<00:17:47.606> walk<00:17:47.783> by<00:17:47.864> and<00:17:47.912> wonder<00:17:48.025> what<00:17:48.073> we<00:17:48.105> were<00:17:48.170> doing.

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I<00:17:48.331> was<00:17:48.411> upset<00:17:48.540> because<00:17:48.766> I<00:17:48.782> thought<00:17:48.862> this<00:17:52.421> absurd.

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Like,<00:17:52.971> is<00:17:53.198> that<00:17:53.456> really<00:17:53.699> what<00:17:53.861> good<00:17:54.087> leadership<00:17:54.572> like<00:17:54.766> is?

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Sort<00:17:55.090> of<00:17:55.219> like,<00:17:56.028> I<00:17:56.141> know<00:17:56.432> the<00:17:56.594> way,<00:17:56.852> trust<00:17:57.564> me,<00:17:58.955> and<00:17:59.052> I'll<00:17:59.278> take<00:17:59.666> you<00:17:59.828> there.

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And<00:18:01.954> I<00:18:02.051> think<00:18:02.212> what<00:18:02.374> the<00:18:02.455> best<00:18:02.762> leaders<00:18:03.102> need<00:18:03.345> to<00:18:03.490> do<00:18:03.975> is<00:18:04.234> to<00:18:04.396> say,<00:18:05.043> you<00:18:05.124> know<00:18:05.286> what,<00:18:06.644> come<00:18:06.903> with<00:18:07.146> me.

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Like,<00:18:08.473> I<00:18:08.634> trust<00:18:09.984> that<00:18:10.145> together<00:18:10.482> we<00:18:10.643> can<00:18:10.804> figure<00:18:11.045> this<00:18:11.270> out.

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Like,<00:18:11.993> I<00:18:12.170> trust<00:18:13.038> you.

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And<00:18:13.617> when<00:18:13.858> we<00:18:14.099> feel<00:18:14.983> trust<00:18:15.465> extended<00:18:16.108> to<00:18:16.494> us,<00:18:18.214> We<00:18:18.439> tend<00:18:18.616> to<00:18:18.761> show<00:18:19.019> up<00:18:19.180> at<00:18:19.261> our<00:18:19.422> best.

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And<00:18:19.905> so,<00:18:21.435> boy,<00:18:21.661> you<00:18:21.693> know,<00:18:21.918> our<00:18:22.321> national<00:18:24.479> problems<00:18:25.139> and<00:18:25.284> maybe<00:18:25.607> what<00:18:25.768> we<00:18:25.864> might<00:18:26.106> say<00:18:26.267> is<00:18:26.412> a<00:18:26.428> national<00:18:26.992> leadership<00:18:27.554> crisis,<00:18:28.583> it's<00:18:29.225> complex.

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But<00:18:30.929> like,<00:18:31.154> I<00:18:31.234> wonder<00:18:31.475> what<00:18:31.572> would<00:18:31.716> happen<00:18:32.359> if<00:18:32.536> we<00:18:32.761> trusted<00:18:34.689> average<00:18:35.187> people,<00:18:35.814> average<00:18:36.136> citizens,<00:18:36.807> a<00:18:36.954> little<00:18:37.118> bit<00:18:37.363> more<00:18:37.772> than<00:18:39.244> the<00:18:39.343> messaging<00:18:39.981> has<00:18:40.161> been.

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Yeah,<00:18:42.403> wouldn't<00:18:42.651> that<00:18:42.757> be<00:18:42.933> interesting?

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Wouldn't<00:18:46.787> it<00:18:46.870> be<00:18:47.037> interesting,<00:18:47.622> like,<00:18:47.722> to<00:18:47.872> be<00:18:48.056> trusted?

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Speaking<00:18:50.846> of<00:18:51.008> Larry,<00:18:51.800> I<00:18:51.961> had<00:18:53.336> Mark<00:18:53.594> Sunday,<00:18:53.918> somebody<00:18:54.564> you<00:18:54.661> may<00:18:54.888> know,<00:18:55.195> who<00:18:55.356> was<00:18:55.599> the<00:18:55.680> CIO<00:18:56.504> of<00:18:56.892> Oracle<00:18:57.232> for<00:18:58.121> a<00:18:58.202> very<00:18:58.444> long<00:18:58.687> time,<00:18:59.657> and<00:18:59.802> I<00:18:59.980> asked<00:19:00.110> him<00:19:00.222> about<00:19:00.608> Larry's<00:19:00.945> leadership<00:19:01.411> style<00:19:02.295> and<00:19:03.420> the<00:19:03.580> way<00:19:03.902> he<00:19:03.998> would<00:19:04.159> bring<00:19:04.384> himself<00:19:04.705> to<00:19:04.785> meetings.

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And<00:19:05.508> actually,<00:19:05.782> a<00:19:06.007> lot<00:19:06.248> of<00:19:06.344> his<00:19:06.633> answers<00:19:07.115> were<00:19:07.308> around<00:19:07.613> trust,<00:19:08.738> kind<00:19:08.883> of<00:19:08.915> similar<00:19:09.220> to,<00:19:09.365> like,<00:19:10.027> What<00:19:10.204> was<00:19:10.365> his<00:19:10.591> leadership<00:19:11.026> style<00:19:11.332> to<00:19:11.476> you?

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How<00:19:11.815> did<00:19:11.976> you<00:19:12.137> experience<00:19:12.765> Larry?

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Oh,<00:19:14.295> goodness.

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I<00:19:16.308> said<00:19:16.549> sort<00:19:16.742> of<00:19:16.807> have<00:19:17.676> this<00:19:18.159> up<00:19:18.337> and<00:19:18.498> down<00:19:19.110> experience<00:19:19.771> with<00:19:19.948> Larry<00:19:20.190> because<00:19:21.626> he<00:19:21.723> was<00:19:21.884> this<00:19:22.045> amazing<00:19:22.610> leader,<00:19:23.013> but<00:19:23.239> he<00:19:23.352> never<00:19:23.804> wanted<00:19:24.046> to<00:19:24.142> talk<00:19:24.465> about<00:19:24.707> leadership,<00:19:25.094> which<00:19:25.191> was<00:19:25.352> one<00:19:25.530> of<00:19:25.594> the<00:19:25.659> things<00:19:25.836> that<00:19:25.998> frustrated<00:19:26.481> me.

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But<00:19:28.175> I<00:19:28.256> think<00:19:28.562> I'm<00:19:28.804> glad<00:19:28.950> you<00:19:29.062> pointed<00:19:29.450> out<00:19:29.611> trust<00:19:30.902> because<00:19:31.806> one<00:19:31.967> of<00:19:31.999> my<00:19:32.209> colleagues<00:19:32.628> at<00:19:32.838> Oracle,<00:19:34.936> Dennis<00:19:35.259> Moore,<00:19:35.501> who<00:19:35.581> was<00:19:35.743> one<00:19:35.856> of<00:19:36.307> the<00:19:36.888> product<00:19:37.356> marketing<00:19:37.840> execs<00:19:38.244> there,<00:19:39.224> when<00:19:39.321> we<00:19:39.401> were<00:19:39.546> talking<00:19:39.883> about<00:19:40.109> like<00:19:40.510> diminishing<00:19:41.218> leaders,<00:19:42.182> you<00:19:42.761> know,<00:19:42.842> we<00:19:43.244> acknowledged<00:19:43.871> that,<00:19:44.047> you<00:19:44.144> know,<00:19:44.273> okay,<00:19:44.530> Larry's<00:19:45.092> got<00:19:45.430> some<00:19:46.057> diminishing<00:19:47.828> traits.

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Like<00:19:48.537> that's<00:19:48.779> a<00:19:48.795> lot<00:19:49.021> of<00:19:49.102> what<00:19:49.215> makes<00:19:49.440> the<00:19:49.521> press.

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But<00:19:49.924> what<00:19:50.085> Dennis<00:19:50.327> said<00:19:50.553> to<00:19:50.633> me,<00:19:50.730> he<00:19:50.827> said,<00:19:51.133> if<00:19:51.375> Larry<00:19:51.778> trusted<00:19:52.343> you,<00:19:53.778> there<00:19:53.874> was<00:19:54.116> no<00:19:54.423> greater<00:19:54.842> multiplier.

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And<00:19:57.105> that<00:19:57.267> was<00:19:57.428> my<00:19:57.735> experience<00:19:58.544> is<00:19:58.738> I<00:19:58.883> felt<00:20:00.257> trusted<00:20:00.823> by<00:20:01.049> him.

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And,<00:20:02.682> you<00:20:02.763> know,<00:20:02.827> I<00:20:02.908> was<00:20:03.070> given<00:20:03.264> a<00:20:03.393> big<00:20:03.571> responsibility<00:20:04.460> at<00:20:04.590> a<00:20:04.710> young<00:20:05.208> age<00:20:05.809> and<00:20:06.457> people<00:20:06.794> didn't<00:20:07.051> step<00:20:07.502> in<00:20:07.598> and<00:20:07.678> do<00:20:07.839> that<00:20:08.080> job<00:20:08.466> for<00:20:08.659> me.

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And<00:20:10.234> there's<00:20:10.588> this<00:20:10.797> one,<00:20:12.002> I<00:20:12.099> think<00:20:12.324> this<00:20:12.822> says<00:20:13.128> a<00:20:13.160> lot<00:20:13.401> about<00:20:14.253> trust<00:20:14.981> and<00:20:16.220> it<00:20:16.302> gives<00:20:16.484> you<00:20:16.566> some<00:20:16.814> insight<00:20:17.144> into<00:20:17.309> Larry.

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There<00:20:19.298> was<00:20:19.395> this<00:20:19.557> really<00:20:19.800> tense<00:20:20.204> meeting<00:20:20.835> that<00:20:20.996> I<00:20:21.158> had<00:20:21.579> with<00:20:21.821> Larry.

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We<00:20:22.290> had<00:20:22.468> been<00:20:22.937> working<00:20:23.261> together<00:20:24.166> trying<00:20:24.554> to<00:20:25.039> kind<00:20:25.217> of<00:20:26.414> transform<00:20:27.805> the<00:20:27.967> education<00:20:28.452> function.

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I<00:20:29.030> ran<00:20:29.277> the<00:20:29.425> education,<00:20:30.085> which<00:20:30.332> had<00:20:30.514> historically<00:20:31.008> been<00:20:31.190> internal,<00:20:31.651> but<00:20:31.816> now<00:20:32.014> it's<00:20:32.393> like<00:20:33.649> employee<00:20:34.051> training<00:20:34.388> as<00:20:34.533> well<00:20:34.677> as<00:20:34.790> customer<00:20:35.674> education,<00:20:36.156> that<00:20:36.413> for<00:20:37.023> revenue<00:20:37.361> business.

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And<00:20:38.646> we're<00:20:39.031> really<00:20:40.252> disrupting<00:20:40.959> that<00:20:41.297> whole<00:20:41.843> model.

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We're<00:20:42.454> moving<00:20:42.743> everything<00:20:43.128> online.

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We're<00:20:43.626> doing<00:20:43.787> this<00:20:44.028> way<00:20:44.349> before<00:20:44.671> that<00:20:44.912> is<00:20:45.137> sort<00:20:45.297> of<00:20:45.474> in<00:20:45.699> vogue.

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And<00:20:47.081> it's<00:20:47.386> all<00:20:47.563> at<00:20:47.723> Larry's<00:20:48.270> behest<00:20:48.768> that<00:20:49.009> we<00:20:49.233> are<00:20:49.973> completely<00:20:50.535> rethinking<00:20:51.097> this.

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And<00:20:51.499> I<00:20:51.659> am<00:20:52.045> on<00:20:52.222> board<00:20:52.463> for<00:20:52.607> this.

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We<00:20:52.864> are<00:20:53.009> having<00:20:53.266> a<00:20:53.330> great<00:20:53.523> time.

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And<00:20:54.471> then<00:20:54.567> we<00:20:54.712> get<00:20:54.792> to<00:20:54.953> a<00:20:54.969> meeting<00:20:55.435> where<00:20:55.837> Larry<00:20:56.078> says<00:20:56.544> to<00:20:56.624> me,<00:20:56.801> like,<00:20:57.026> looks<00:20:57.267> right<00:20:57.427> across<00:20:57.684> the<00:20:57.829> table<00:20:58.086> at<00:20:58.263> me<00:20:58.568> and<00:20:58.729> says,<00:20:59.420> You<00:20:59.600> know,<00:20:59.960> Liz,<00:21:00.780> I<00:21:00.781> think<00:21:00.900> I<00:21:00.980> had<00:21:01.100> about<00:21:01.360> 350<00:21:01.980> people<00:21:02.400> on<00:21:02.580> my<00:21:02.780> team<00:21:02.900> at<00:21:03.080> the<00:21:03.200> time.

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And<00:21:03.500> he<00:21:03.680> said,<00:21:04.000> you<00:21:04.001> know,<00:21:04.940> I<00:21:05.200> want<00:21:05.360> you<00:21:05.480> to<00:21:05.740> pick<00:21:06.220> like<00:21:06.700> your<00:21:06.860> top<00:21:07.100> 100<00:21:07.539> people<00:21:07.820> on<00:21:08.000> your<00:21:08.220> team<00:21:08.520> and<00:21:09.080> I<00:21:09.780> want<00:21:09.960> you<00:21:10.080> to<00:21:10.200> get<00:21:10.380> rid<00:21:10.540> of<00:21:11.240> everyone<00:21:11.660> else<00:21:12.360> and<00:21:12.820> rebuild<00:21:13.160> the<00:21:13.400> organization<00:21:13.860> around<00:21:14.160> your<00:21:14.340> top<00:21:14.600> 100<00:21:14.960> people.

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And<00:21:17.460> I'm<00:21:17.600> like,<00:21:17.920> okay,<00:21:17.960> I<00:21:18.120> was<00:21:18.260> having<00:21:18.480> fun<00:21:19.000> with<00:21:19.320> Larry.

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It<00:21:19.940> was<00:21:20.040> like<00:21:20.200> all<00:21:20.380> fun<00:21:20.620> and<00:21:20.860> games<00:21:21.120> until<00:21:21.400> Larry<00:21:21.700> wants<00:21:21.960> me<00:21:22.120> to<00:21:22.300> fire<00:21:22.580> 250<00:21:23.380> people<00:21:24.280> virtually<00:21:25.280> overnight.

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And<00:21:26.100> I<00:21:26.320> think<00:21:27.202> Larry's<00:21:27.523> lost<00:21:27.908> his<00:21:28.164> mind.

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He's<00:21:29.447> being<00:21:29.751> dramatic.

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He's<00:21:30.809> being<00:21:31.515> heartless.

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He<00:21:32.877> doesn't<00:21:33.134> understand,<00:21:34.400> like,<00:21:34.641> that<00:21:34.737> we're<00:21:34.881> doing<00:21:35.138> mission-critical<00:21:35.939> work<00:21:36.484> and<00:21:36.580> that<00:21:36.725> there's<00:21:36.901> going<00:21:37.013> to<00:21:37.061> be<00:21:37.222> a<00:21:37.366> revenue<00:21:37.767> hit.

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And<00:21:38.023> so<00:21:38.248> I'm<00:21:38.328> going<00:21:38.648> into<00:21:39.049> all<00:21:39.145> the<00:21:39.290> ways<00:21:39.530> that<00:21:39.690> Larry<00:21:39.851> is<00:21:40.171> absolutely<00:21:40.748> wrong<00:21:40.973> about<00:21:41.149> this.

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And<00:21:41.726> I'm<00:21:41.870> not<00:21:42.031> alone.

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Like,<00:21:42.816> other<00:21:42.993> executives,<00:21:44.099> the<00:21:44.179> head<00:21:44.371> of<00:21:44.451> sales,<00:21:44.980> head<00:21:45.060> of<00:21:45.221> product,<00:21:45.557> we're<00:21:45.782> all<00:21:46.038> around<00:21:46.279> this<00:21:46.439> conference<00:21:46.840> table<00:21:47.786> and<00:21:48.427> they're<00:21:48.667> all<00:21:48.764> looking<00:21:49.148> at<00:21:49.244> me<00:21:49.405> like—<00:21:50.607> and<00:21:50.703> I'm<00:21:50.912> also,<00:21:51.120> like,<00:21:51.473> probably<00:21:51.713> the<00:21:51.873> youngest<00:21:52.290> person<00:21:52.835> in<00:21:52.931> the<00:21:53.076> room,<00:21:53.396> the<00:21:53.493> only<00:21:54.118> woman<00:21:54.438> in<00:21:54.551> the<00:21:54.695> room.

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And<00:21:55.031> they're<00:21:55.176> looking<00:21:55.480> at<00:21:55.528> me<00:21:55.721> like,<00:21:55.977> Liz,<00:21:56.218> don't<00:21:56.458> take<00:21:56.763> this<00:21:57.019> bait.

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And<00:21:58.383> So<00:21:59.012> I<00:21:59.109> kind<00:21:59.319> of<00:21:59.432> go<00:21:59.658> into<00:22:00.158> a<00:22:00.271> little<00:22:00.400> bit<00:22:00.561> of<00:22:00.706> a<00:22:02.336> slow<00:22:02.658> panic<00:22:03.852> and<00:22:04.030> I<00:22:04.110> start<00:22:04.352> to<00:22:04.498> think<00:22:04.901> all<00:22:04.998> the<00:22:05.078> ways<00:22:05.304> that<00:22:05.385> Larry<00:22:05.627> is<00:22:05.724> wrong<00:22:05.966> about<00:22:06.208> this.

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And<00:22:07.079> I<00:22:07.563> go<00:22:07.740> talk<00:22:07.886> to<00:22:08.047> all<00:22:08.161> the<00:22:08.290> executives,<00:22:08.937> all<00:22:09.034> the<00:22:09.115> business<00:22:09.503> unit<00:22:09.745> heads,<00:22:10.554> looking<00:22:10.877> at<00:22:11.055> what<00:22:11.217> this<00:22:11.378> would<00:22:11.540> do<00:22:11.766> to<00:22:11.863> their,<00:22:12.429> their<00:22:12.672> revenue<00:22:12.995> numbers,<00:22:13.319> their<00:22:13.480> business,<00:22:14.030> what<00:22:14.143> it<00:22:14.192> would<00:22:14.289> do.

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And<00:22:15.324> I<00:22:15.485> lay<00:22:15.728> out<00:22:15.906> this<00:22:16.067> case<00:22:17.264> kind<00:22:17.361> of<00:22:17.410> like<00:22:17.685> full<00:22:17.911> analytics<00:22:18.720> on<00:22:19.043> why<00:22:19.221> I<00:22:19.367> think<00:22:19.545> this<00:22:19.707> is<00:22:19.788> a<00:22:19.868> bad<00:22:20.192> move.

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And<00:22:20.661> I<00:22:20.758> go<00:22:20.920> back<00:22:21.308> with<00:22:21.713> a<00:22:23.266> Plan<00:22:23.589> B,<00:22:23.977> which<00:22:24.236> is<00:22:24.398> to<00:22:24.560> reduce<00:22:24.883> the<00:22:25.029> organization<00:22:25.530> by<00:22:25.676> a<00:22:25.692> much<00:22:26.080> smaller<00:22:27.010> amount.

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And<00:22:27.368> I<00:22:27.385> lay<00:22:27.419> this<00:22:27.470> plan<00:22:27.709> out<00:22:27.777> and<00:22:27.897> Larry,<00:22:30.090> I'll<00:22:30.235> never<00:22:30.429> forget<00:22:30.672> what<00:22:30.769> Larry<00:22:30.947> said.

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He's<00:22:31.480> like,<00:22:32.709> you<00:22:32.774> know,<00:22:32.871> Liz,<00:22:33.502> you've<00:22:33.599> done<00:22:33.761> like<00:22:33.938> a<00:22:34.003> really<00:22:34.310> good<00:22:34.488> analysis<00:22:35.200> on<00:22:35.297> this<00:22:35.766> and<00:22:36.574> you're<00:22:36.752> right.

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What<00:22:38.404> I<00:22:38.485> asked<00:22:38.728> you<00:22:38.793> to<00:22:38.874> do<00:22:39.036> is<00:22:39.133> probably<00:22:39.523> unreasonable<00:22:40.349> and<00:22:40.576> what<00:22:40.738> you've<00:22:41.630> come<00:22:41.808> back<00:22:42.051> with<00:22:42.213> is<00:22:42.375> a<00:22:42.456> much<00:22:42.781> more<00:22:42.943> reasonable<00:22:43.429> plan.

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And<00:22:44.499> if<00:22:44.629> this<00:22:44.791> is<00:22:44.872> what<00:22:45.034> you<00:22:45.131> want<00:22:45.293> to<00:22:45.374> do,<00:22:45.536> I<00:22:45.617> support<00:22:46.087> you.

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And<00:22:48.350> I'm<00:22:48.528> thinking,<00:22:48.995> man,<00:22:49.318> I<00:22:49.479> have<00:22:49.738> just—<00:22:50.205> and<00:22:50.367> of<00:22:50.463> course,<00:22:50.689> the<00:22:50.786> other<00:22:50.931> executives<00:22:51.415> on<00:22:51.512> the<00:22:51.593> table,<00:22:51.996> they're<00:22:52.222> like,<00:22:52.641> whoa,<00:22:53.044> Liz<00:22:53.222> is<00:22:53.351> the<00:22:53.448> boss.

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Like,<00:22:54.480> I'm<00:22:54.658> seeing<00:22:54.883> this<00:22:55.206> very<00:22:55.464> much<00:22:55.722> as<00:22:55.932> this<00:22:56.271> victory.

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Like,<00:22:57.061> I<00:22:57.384> have<00:22:59.466> been<00:22:59.708> victorious<00:23:00.435> against<00:23:00.903> a<00:23:01.080> really<00:23:02.598> strong-willed,<00:23:04.309> smart<00:23:05.197> leader,<00:23:05.746> and<00:23:05.988> I'm<00:23:06.149> feeling<00:23:06.327> great<00:23:06.569> about<00:23:06.827> it.

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But<00:23:07.134> I<00:23:07.279> remember<00:23:07.699> seeing<00:23:07.990> kind<00:23:08.200> of<00:23:08.248> this<00:23:09.300> look<00:23:09.461> of<00:23:09.559> disappointment<00:23:11.160> in<00:23:11.257> his<00:23:11.564> eyes,<00:23:11.888> like<00:23:12.050> he<00:23:12.147> was<00:23:12.308> supportive.

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And<00:23:15.202> so<00:23:15.347> we're<00:23:15.492> all<00:23:15.540> like<00:23:15.733> high-fiving<00:23:16.297> after<00:23:16.539> the<00:23:16.636> meeting.

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We<00:23:17.345> go,<00:23:17.602> we<00:23:17.764> do<00:23:17.989> this<00:23:18.650> reduction<00:23:19.133> in<00:23:19.214> force.

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It's<00:23:19.697> much,<00:23:20.019> much<00:23:20.213> smaller.

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And<00:23:21.953> we<00:23:22.098> go<00:23:22.194> to<00:23:22.259> rebuild.

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And<00:23:24.193> Then<00:23:24.417> suddenly<00:23:24.673> we<00:23:24.818> have<00:23:24.978> to<00:23:25.074> do<00:23:25.379> a<00:23:25.395> little<00:23:25.619> bit<00:23:25.779> more<00:23:26.020> trimming<00:23:26.581> on<00:23:26.757> headcount,<00:23:27.478> and<00:23:27.638> then<00:23:28.263> we<00:23:28.344> have<00:23:28.664> all<00:23:28.824> the<00:23:28.921> same<00:23:29.241> work<00:23:29.626> and<00:23:29.786> more<00:23:29.962> because<00:23:30.283> now<00:23:30.427> we're<00:23:30.523> disrupting<00:23:31.325> and<00:23:31.469> changing<00:23:32.847> and<00:23:32.911> we<00:23:33.007> don't<00:23:33.088> have<00:23:33.248> enough<00:23:33.424> heads<00:23:33.889> to<00:23:34.049> do<00:23:34.290> it.

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And<00:23:35.412> people<00:23:35.652> start<00:23:35.972> leaving<00:23:36.277> the<00:23:36.453> organization<00:23:37.255> voluntarily<00:23:38.521> and<00:23:39.002> work<00:23:39.194> starts<00:23:39.579> to<00:23:39.723> feel<00:23:40.476> miserable.

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And<00:23:41.646> I'm<00:23:41.902> realizing,<00:23:42.848> like,<00:23:43.169> over<00:23:43.345> the<00:23:43.441> months<00:23:43.906> that<00:23:44.146> ensue,<00:23:44.691> as<00:23:44.787> I'm<00:23:44.948> watching<00:23:45.268> people<00:23:45.653> leave,<00:23:45.973> I'm<00:23:46.134> having<00:23:46.374> to<00:23:46.614> ask<00:23:46.791> people<00:23:47.111> to<00:23:47.271> leave,<00:23:48.137> I'm<00:23:48.377> reshuffling<00:23:49.034> chairs,<00:23:49.900> that<00:23:49.980> I'm<00:23:50.156> like<00:23:50.317> presiding<00:23:51.038> over<00:23:51.262> this<00:23:51.823> slow<00:23:52.464> bloodletting.

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In<00:23:54.045> the<00:23:54.205> organization.

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And<00:23:55.089> I<00:23:55.170> realized<00:23:56.761> Larry<00:23:57.162> was<00:23:57.725> absolutely<00:23:58.464> right<00:23:58.946> about<00:23:59.348> this<00:23:59.749> and<00:24:00.055> I<00:24:00.151> was<00:24:00.778> absolutely<00:24:01.501> wrong.

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I<00:24:02.160> had<00:24:02.321> been<00:24:02.546> incredibly<00:24:03.288> short-sighted.

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I<00:24:04.240> had<00:24:04.417> been<00:24:05.046> sort<00:24:05.224> of<00:24:05.369> defending<00:24:05.869> the<00:24:05.950> status<00:24:06.337> quo,<00:24:06.740> protecting<00:24:09.096> my<00:24:09.257> team,<00:24:09.902> my<00:24:10.128> organization,<00:24:11.516> and<00:24:11.855> some<00:24:12.113> of<00:24:12.226> it,<00:24:12.306> I<00:24:12.403> think,<00:24:12.581> under<00:24:12.742> the<00:24:12.887> guise<00:24:13.371> of<00:24:13.517> protecting<00:24:14.017> the<00:24:14.162> business.

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But<00:24:14.969> Larry<00:24:15.227> had<00:24:15.388> been<00:24:15.614> thinking<00:24:15.953> big.

00:24:16.340 --> 00:24:18.874
He'd<00:24:16.437> been<00:24:16.599> thinking<00:24:16.841> for<00:24:16.986> the<00:24:17.083> future<00:24:17.486> and<00:24:17.567> I'm<00:24:17.728> protecting<00:24:18.212> the<00:24:18.357> past.

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And<00:24:20.314> I<00:24:20.330> mean,<00:24:20.475> I<00:24:20.555> realized<00:24:20.957> like,<00:24:21.278> oh<00:24:21.294> no,<00:24:21.824> Larry<00:24:22.161> was<00:24:22.803> right.

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But,<00:24:26.176> but<00:24:26.320> he<00:24:26.481> also<00:24:26.802> said<00:24:27.059> like,<00:24:27.686> you<00:24:27.718> know<00:24:27.862> what,<00:24:28.521> like<00:24:28.665> he<00:24:28.826> knew<00:24:29.051> I<00:24:29.147> was<00:24:29.308> wrong.

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I<00:24:30.094> absolutely<00:24:30.576> am<00:24:30.673> convinced<00:24:31.138> he<00:24:31.219> knew<00:24:31.540> that<00:24:31.716> that<00:24:31.941> was<00:24:32.118> not<00:24:32.343> the<00:24:32.439> right<00:24:32.680> thing<00:24:32.841> to<00:24:33.001> do.

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But<00:24:33.419> he,<00:24:34.270> um,<00:24:34.447> he<00:24:34.607> gave<00:24:34.832> me<00:24:34.928> the<00:24:35.009> space<00:24:35.394> to<00:24:35.490> do<00:24:35.651> it,<00:24:35.747> and<00:24:35.876> I<00:24:35.972> learned<00:24:36.213> a<00:24:36.454> really<00:24:37.642> valuable,<00:24:38.285> really<00:24:38.622> expensive,<00:24:39.425> really<00:24:39.666> painful<00:24:40.132> lesson<00:24:40.549> because<00:24:40.854> Larry<00:24:41.111> trusted<00:24:41.577> me<00:24:42.476> to<00:24:42.621> go<00:24:42.781> do<00:24:42.894> my<00:24:43.103> job<00:24:44.548> even<00:24:44.724> if<00:24:44.869> I<00:24:44.885> was<00:24:45.062> doing<00:24:45.383> it<00:24:45.592> kind<00:24:45.849> of<00:24:46.090> poorly.

00:24:48.256 --> 00:24:52.266
Seemed<00:24:48.480> like<00:24:48.641> I<00:24:48.721> was<00:24:48.833> doing<00:24:49.042> a<00:24:49.058> good<00:24:49.218> job,<00:24:49.619> but<00:24:49.844> I—<00:24:49.924> yeah,<00:24:51.400> so<00:24:51.689> short-sighted.

00:24:52.892 --> 00:24:54.544
That<00:24:53.052> is,<00:24:53.293> that<00:24:53.469> is<00:24:53.630> actually<00:24:53.950> incredible.

00:24:54.737 --> 00:25:00.143
And,<00:24:54.913> and<00:24:55.234> what,<00:24:55.555> what<00:24:55.779> Larry's<00:24:56.036> bringing<00:24:56.309> to<00:24:56.357> that<00:24:57.399> table<00:24:57.704> at<00:24:57.800> the<00:24:57.881> time<00:24:58.346> is<00:24:58.586> probably<00:24:58.988> experience,<00:24:59.870> right?

00:25:00.207 --> 00:25:04.666
Like,<00:25:00.447> hey,<00:25:01.426> I—<00:25:01.875> this<00:25:01.987> is<00:25:02.132> most<00:25:02.453> likely<00:25:03.960> what<00:25:04.121> you<00:25:04.153> need<00:25:04.361> to<00:25:04.442> do.

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And<00:25:05.645> then<00:25:05.741> you<00:25:05.885> come<00:25:05.998> back<00:25:06.222> in,<00:25:06.383> but<00:25:06.463> he<00:25:06.607> trusts<00:25:06.928> you<00:25:07.024> as<00:25:07.169> a<00:25:07.201> leader.

00:25:07.490 --> 00:25:10.265
He's<00:25:07.666> like,<00:25:07.826> all<00:25:07.907> right,<00:25:08.147> well,<00:25:08.388> I'll<00:25:08.693> trust<00:25:08.949> you<00:25:09.030> because,<00:25:09.511> you<00:25:09.591> know,<00:25:09.687> maybe<00:25:10.056> I'm<00:25:10.168> wrong.

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Yeah,<00:25:12.142> because<00:25:12.382> what<00:25:12.543> he<00:25:12.623> understands<00:25:13.826> is<00:25:13.922> if<00:25:14.067> you<00:25:14.243> really<00:25:14.548> want<00:25:14.644> to<00:25:14.789> change<00:25:15.206> the<00:25:15.366> game,<00:25:15.751> it's<00:25:15.944> not<00:25:16.650> done<00:25:16.890> with<00:25:17.131> incremental<00:25:17.612> thinking.

00:25:18.078 --> 00:25:21.158
It's<00:25:18.254> not<00:25:18.415> like<00:25:18.575> getting<00:25:19.377> 10%<00:25:20.019> better,<00:25:20.420> 20%<00:25:21.046> better.

00:25:21.222 --> 00:25:27.527
If<00:25:21.302> you<00:25:21.447> want<00:25:21.527> to<00:25:21.607> get<00:25:22.169> 2x,<00:25:23.051> 5x,<00:25:23.549> 10x<00:25:24.190> better,<00:25:25.233> you're<00:25:25.458> better<00:25:25.779> to<00:25:25.939> like<00:25:26.116> strip<00:25:26.757> down<00:25:27.142> everything.

00:25:27.784 --> 00:25:32.902
I<00:25:27.880> guess<00:25:28.987> in<00:25:29.068> the<00:25:29.244> Elon<00:25:29.645> Musk<00:25:30.367> parlance,<00:25:30.752> this<00:25:30.913> would<00:25:31.009> be<00:25:31.554> like<00:25:31.731> first<00:25:32.052> principles<00:25:32.597> thinking.

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It's<00:25:33.159> like<00:25:33.351> strip<00:25:34.442> all<00:25:34.619> of<00:25:34.779> those<00:25:35.100> unnecessary<00:25:36.929> functions<00:25:37.988> and<00:25:38.132> strip<00:25:38.453> things<00:25:38.790> back<00:25:39.047> to<00:25:39.417> basics<00:25:39.998> and<00:25:40.160> rebuild<00:25:40.564> around<00:25:40.806> people<00:25:41.129> who<00:25:41.355> want<00:25:41.678> to<00:25:42.340> disrupt<00:25:42.970> and<00:25:43.147> want<00:25:43.470> to<00:25:43.793> innovate<00:25:45.150> and<00:25:45.231> then<00:25:45.554> add<00:25:45.731> resources<00:25:46.603> from<00:25:46.765> there.

00:25:46.942 --> 00:25:48.800
And<00:25:47.088> I<00:25:47.185> think<00:25:47.346> he<00:25:47.508> understood<00:25:47.976> that<00:25:48.154> and<00:25:48.315> I<00:25:48.477> didn't.

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What<00:25:50.197> do<00:25:50.263> you<00:25:50.295> think?

00:25:50.426 --> 00:25:54.524
Yeah,<00:25:50.540> this<00:25:50.720> is<00:25:50.785> not<00:25:51.014> necessarily<00:25:51.373> a<00:25:51.438> super<00:25:51.830> proud<00:25:52.173> moment,<00:25:52.989> but<00:25:53.316> I<00:25:53.398> think<00:25:53.577> it<00:25:53.708> says<00:25:53.822> a<00:25:53.904> lot<00:25:54.067> about<00:25:54.296> Larry.

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That's<00:25:55.812> incredible.

00:25:56.360 --> 00:25:57.310
That's<00:25:56.456> an<00:25:56.537> incredible<00:25:57.020> story.

00:25:57.406 --> 00:25:58.888
What<00:25:57.503> do<00:25:57.584> you<00:25:57.745> think<00:25:57.922> about<00:25:58.163> Elon,<00:25:58.550> actually?

00:25:58.952 --> 00:26:08.157
Like<00:25:59.419> the<00:25:59.532> most<00:26:01.932> famous<00:26:02.576> leader<00:26:03.365> of<00:26:03.445> our<00:26:03.622> time,<00:26:04.186> the<00:26:04.669> most<00:26:05.040> famous<00:26:05.401> CEO<00:26:05.827> of<00:26:05.958> our<00:26:06.057> time,<00:26:06.631> the<00:26:07.025> richest<00:26:07.370> person<00:26:07.632> in<00:26:07.764> the<00:26:07.862> world.

00:26:08.953 --> 00:26:14.303
Running<00:26:09.926> various<00:26:10.509> incredible<00:26:11.401> big<00:26:11.644> companies<00:26:13.492> and<00:26:13.590> tweeting<00:26:13.995> a<00:26:14.011> lot.

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It's<00:26:14.546> really<00:26:14.806> interesting.

00:26:17.207 --> 00:26:18.116
Or<00:26:17.613> Xing<00:26:17.856> a<00:26:17.873> lot.

00:26:18.165 --> 00:26:20.176
Yeah,<00:26:18.505> I<00:26:18.586> don't<00:26:19.235> know<00:26:19.397> what<00:26:19.706> it's<00:26:20.030> called.

00:26:20.225 --> 00:26:21.701
Is<00:26:20.371> it<00:26:20.452> even<00:26:20.679> called<00:26:20.922> tweeting<00:26:21.344> anymore?

00:26:22.139 --> 00:26:22.934
That's<00:26:22.318> a<00:26:22.382> good<00:26:22.593> question.

00:26:24.391 --> 00:26:26.268
I<00:26:24.472> have<00:26:24.796> really<00:26:24.974> mixed<00:26:25.783> emotions.

00:26:27.466 --> 00:26:33.980
In<00:26:27.644> some<00:26:27.806> ways,<00:26:28.113> Elon<00:26:28.453> Musk<00:26:29.246> is<00:26:29.489> the<00:26:29.667> epitome<00:26:30.622> of<00:26:31.690> the<00:26:31.787> sort<00:26:32.030> of<00:26:32.159> smart<00:26:32.742> but<00:26:32.905> diminishing<00:26:33.638> leader.

00:26:34.273 --> 00:26:42.701
And<00:26:34.875> if<00:26:35.103> you<00:26:35.250> talk<00:26:35.576> to<00:26:36.663> people<00:26:36.984> who<00:26:37.868> work<00:26:38.092> for<00:26:38.189> him,<00:26:38.414> and<00:26:38.510> I've,<00:26:39.297> I've<00:26:40.678> worked<00:26:40.918> with<00:26:41.143> many<00:26:41.384> of<00:26:41.464> the<00:26:41.561> people<00:26:41.882> who<00:26:41.962> have<00:26:42.203> worked<00:26:42.428> for<00:26:42.524> him.

00:26:42.765 --> 00:26:45.462
They've<00:26:42.925> been<00:26:43.070> clients<00:26:43.568> as<00:26:43.712> they've<00:26:43.953> left<00:26:44.226> and<00:26:44.290> gone<00:26:44.467> to<00:26:44.611> other<00:26:44.917> companies.

00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:54.743
I<00:26:45.575> know<00:26:45.816> some<00:26:45.992> of<00:26:46.121> them<00:26:46.297> quite<00:26:46.699> well,<00:26:48.048> and<00:26:48.288> I<00:26:48.385> know,<00:26:48.770> you<00:26:48.802> know,<00:26:49.027> what<00:26:49.188> they<00:26:49.332> would<00:26:49.428> say<00:26:49.653> off<00:26:49.894> record<00:26:50.328> is<00:26:50.858> they—<00:26:51.179> it<00:26:51.275> was<00:26:51.452> a<00:26:51.596> pretty<00:26:51.773> miserable<00:26:52.254> experience<00:26:53.041> working<00:26:54.005> for<00:26:54.229> Elon<00:26:54.486> Musk.

00:26:54.888 --> 00:27:00.556
But<00:26:56.477> he's<00:26:56.718> absolutely<00:26:57.601> brilliant,<00:26:58.324> and<00:26:58.420> he's<00:26:58.806> right<00:26:59.239> about<00:26:59.689> a<00:26:59.705> lot<00:27:00.010> of<00:27:00.251> things.

00:27:00.604 --> 00:27:05.742
And,<00:27:00.749> you<00:27:00.829> know,<00:27:00.925> it<00:27:01.070> is<00:27:01.230> very<00:27:01.471> similar<00:27:01.937> to<00:27:02.113> like<00:27:02.354> a<00:27:02.418> Larry<00:27:02.820> Ellison<00:27:04.104> and<00:27:04.923> a<00:27:04.987> Steve<00:27:05.308> Jobs<00:27:05.565> mode.

00:27:06.833 --> 00:27:14.361
And<00:27:07.090> I<00:27:07.251> think,<00:27:07.716> you<00:27:07.909> know,<00:27:07.989> here<00:27:08.438> I'm<00:27:08.856> probably<00:27:09.096> someone<00:27:09.482> who,<00:27:09.803> like,<00:27:10.075> if<00:27:10.204> you<00:27:10.300> see<00:27:10.525> me<00:27:10.701> coming<00:27:11.022> around<00:27:11.279> a<00:27:11.343> hallway,<00:27:11.809> you're<00:27:11.905> like,<00:27:12.371> oh,<00:27:12.531> that's<00:27:12.868> Liz,<00:27:13.334> Liz<00:27:13.655> multipliers.

00:27:14.939 --> 00:27:19.176
You<00:27:15.019> know,<00:27:16.319> this<00:27:16.544> is<00:27:16.576> someone<00:27:16.865> who's<00:27:17.106> trying<00:27:17.282> to<00:27:17.443> rid<00:27:17.603> the<00:27:17.764> world<00:27:18.021> of<00:27:18.165> diminishing<00:27:18.727> leaders.

00:27:19.433 --> 00:27:21.921
And,<00:27:19.738> you<00:27:19.786> know,<00:27:19.850> in<00:27:19.931> many<00:27:20.171> ways,<00:27:20.412> Elon<00:27:20.733> Musk<00:27:21.199> looks<00:27:21.520> like<00:27:21.760> that.

00:27:22.162 --> 00:27:32.659
But<00:27:23.382> I<00:27:23.462> think<00:27:23.687> he's<00:27:23.847> someone<00:27:24.666> who's<00:27:24.810> like,<00:27:25.051> we,<00:27:25.388> there<00:27:25.565> is<00:27:25.709> a<00:27:25.869> place<00:27:26.672> for<00:27:26.833> people<00:27:27.218> who<00:27:27.459> are<00:27:27.635> singularly<00:27:28.919> brilliant<00:27:29.706> and<00:27:30.428> emphatic<00:27:31.471> and<00:27:31.568> they<00:27:31.792> play<00:27:32.049> this<00:27:32.450> role.

00:27:34.505 --> 00:27:35.165
And<00:27:34.602> it's<00:27:34.747> valuable.

00:27:35.213 --> 00:27:39.188
Like,<00:27:36.340> I<00:27:36.758> bought<00:27:36.935> a<00:27:37.080> Tesla,<00:27:37.788> what,<00:27:38.351> 10<00:27:38.609> years<00:27:38.866> ago.

00:27:39.477 --> 00:27:45.462
And,<00:27:39.638> you<00:27:39.719> know,<00:27:39.815> so<00:27:39.976> I'm<00:27:40.121> like<00:27:40.298> a<00:27:40.539> really<00:27:40.958> early<00:27:41.988> Tesla<00:27:42.374> customer<00:27:42.712> who<00:27:42.857> like<00:27:43.052> saw<00:27:43.359> the<00:27:43.521> promise<00:27:44.006> in<00:27:44.087> this<00:27:44.395> and<00:27:44.556> wanted<00:27:45.204> something.

00:27:45.624 --> 00:27:49.038
And<00:27:45.851> I<00:27:46.191> loved,<00:27:47.226> loved,<00:27:47.485> loved<00:27:47.728> this<00:27:47.954> car<00:27:48.132> for<00:27:48.213> a<00:27:48.440> decade.

00:27:49.168 --> 00:27:53.331
And<00:27:49.831> I<00:27:49.912> think<00:27:50.155> what<00:27:50.317> he<00:27:50.705> was<00:27:51.190> able<00:27:51.433> to<00:27:51.530> build<00:27:51.692> is<00:27:52.017> absolutely<00:27:52.747> amazing.

00:27:53.396 --> 00:27:58.542
We've<00:27:53.624> got<00:27:53.867> Tesla<00:27:54.208> Powerwalls,<00:27:54.857> like,<00:27:55.490> kind<00:27:55.588> of<00:27:55.734> sold<00:27:56.302> on<00:27:57.844> what's<00:27:58.104> possible.

00:27:59.491 --> 00:28:00.092
Here's<00:27:59.734> the<00:27:59.962> thing.

00:28:00.205 --> 00:28:04.462
The<00:28:00.303> problem<00:28:00.855> comes<00:28:01.343> when<00:28:01.846> people<00:28:02.171> try<00:28:02.415> to<00:28:02.642> replicate<00:28:03.227> that<00:28:03.390> as<00:28:03.536> a<00:28:03.634> leadership<00:28:04.121> style.

00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:10.207
See,<00:28:06.235> like,<00:28:06.348> there's<00:28:06.590> leaders<00:28:07.155> of<00:28:07.397> people<00:28:07.882> and<00:28:07.979> organizations,<00:28:08.866> and<00:28:09.012> then<00:28:09.189> there<00:28:09.351> are<00:28:09.512> thought<00:28:09.835> leaders.

00:28:10.465 --> 00:28:18.536
And<00:28:11.434> like,<00:28:11.611> Elon<00:28:11.789> Musk<00:28:12.160> is<00:28:12.257> a<00:28:12.402> great<00:28:12.645> example<00:28:13.080> of<00:28:13.242> a<00:28:13.452> brilliant<00:28:14.356> thought<00:28:14.679> leader<00:28:15.792> who's<00:28:15.953> not<00:28:16.228> necessarily<00:28:16.873> a<00:28:17.002> brilliant<00:28:17.487> organizational<00:28:18.294> leader.

00:28:18.633 --> 00:28:21.764
And<00:28:19.278> I<00:28:19.359> think<00:28:19.585> we<00:28:19.682> make<00:28:19.859> a<00:28:19.924> mistake<00:28:20.311> when<00:28:20.392> we<00:28:20.489> try<00:28:20.650> to<00:28:20.812> put<00:28:20.973> them<00:28:21.134> in<00:28:21.280> that<00:28:21.538> box.

00:28:22.750 --> 00:28:24.928
I'll<00:28:22.867> share<00:28:23.051> another<00:28:23.537> little<00:28:24.124> story<00:28:24.358> about<00:28:24.626> Larry.

00:28:26.309 --> 00:28:29.742
Is<00:28:28.888> the<00:28:28.969> problem<00:28:29.307> at<00:28:29.452> Oracle.

00:28:29.791 --> 00:28:30.742
It<00:28:29.871> was<00:28:30.097> not<00:28:30.435> Larry.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:31.870
It<00:28:31.080> was<00:28:31.306> the<00:28:31.467> Larry<00:28:31.596> lookalikes.

00:28:33.903 --> 00:28:42.455
And<00:28:34.052> I<00:28:34.134> would<00:28:34.300> get<00:28:34.416> a<00:28:34.482> lot<00:28:34.664> of<00:28:34.813> people<00:28:35.359> who—<00:28:37.018> and<00:28:37.099> I<00:28:37.163> think<00:28:37.341> it<00:28:37.373> was<00:28:37.486> because<00:28:37.712> of<00:28:37.825> my<00:28:38.051> role,<00:28:38.535> like,<00:28:38.760> in<00:28:38.841> charge<00:28:39.099> of<00:28:39.648> leadership<00:28:40.083> development<00:28:41.116> and<00:28:41.761> people<00:28:42.003> development.

00:28:42.875 --> 00:28:45.779
Like,<00:28:43.197> I<00:28:43.278> can't<00:28:43.456> tell<00:28:43.504> you<00:28:43.617> how<00:28:43.714> many<00:28:43.859> times<00:28:44.101> I<00:28:44.165> had<00:28:44.295> to<00:28:44.359> sit<00:28:44.569> down<00:28:44.746> with<00:28:44.908> people<00:28:45.150> and<00:28:45.230> go,<00:28:45.392> you<00:28:45.488> know<00:28:45.618> what?

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Because<00:28:46.521> they<00:28:46.570> were,<00:28:46.747> like,<00:28:47.005> doing<00:28:47.327> the<00:28:47.488> Larry<00:28:47.971> thing,<00:28:48.277> like,<00:28:48.455> showing<00:28:49.083> up,<00:28:49.582> big<00:28:50.146> guns<00:28:50.549> slinging,<00:28:51.355> putting<00:28:51.596> people<00:28:51.854> in<00:28:51.918> their<00:28:52.080> place,<00:28:52.402> being<00:28:52.724> argumentative,<00:28:53.852> visionary.

00:28:54.577 --> 00:28:58.628
And<00:28:54.625> I'm<00:28:54.673> like,<00:28:54.738> okay,<00:28:54.802> let<00:28:54.851> me<00:28:54.899> let<00:28:54.947> you<00:28:54.996> in<00:28:55.044> on<00:28:55.076> a<00:28:55.092> secret<00:28:57.464> Larry<00:28:57.852> is<00:28:57.949> amazing.

00:28:58.757 --> 00:29:02.847
Like,<00:28:59.000> we<00:28:59.145> are<00:28:59.242> so<00:28:59.630> glad<00:29:00.034> we<00:29:00.196> have<00:29:00.438> Larry<00:29:00.697> Ellison,<00:29:01.909> you<00:29:01.990> know,<00:29:02.152> in<00:29:02.297> this<00:29:02.540> company.

00:29:03.590 --> 00:29:05.352
But<00:29:03.687> the<00:29:03.833> thing<00:29:04.011> is,<00:29:04.156> we<00:29:04.253> only<00:29:04.496> need<00:29:04.738> one<00:29:04.916> of<00:29:05.288> him.

00:29:06.516 --> 00:29:08.986
We<00:29:06.678> don't<00:29:06.920> need<00:29:07.050> a<00:29:07.146> whole<00:29:07.469> army<00:29:07.905> of<00:29:08.050> people<00:29:08.454> like<00:29:08.776> this.

00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:19.122
And<00:29:09.341> I<00:29:09.422> think<00:29:10.213> Elon<00:29:10.471> Musk<00:29:10.729> is<00:29:10.810> someone<00:29:11.132> that<00:29:11.278> we<00:29:11.358> need<00:29:11.552> to<00:29:11.681> appreciate<00:29:12.327> for<00:29:15.215> the<00:29:15.312> trajectory<00:29:16.523> he<00:29:16.749> creates,<00:29:17.475> the<00:29:17.572> possibilities<00:29:18.444> he<00:29:18.605> explores.

00:29:19.187 --> 00:29:23.368
But<00:29:19.364> I'm<00:29:19.590> not<00:29:19.816> sure,<00:29:20.882> like,<00:29:21.108> his<00:29:21.285> strength<00:29:21.786> is<00:29:22.012> as<00:29:22.173> an<00:29:22.254> organizational<00:29:23.126> leader.

00:29:23.530 --> 00:29:44.088
And<00:29:23.933> typically<00:29:24.434> people<00:29:24.983> like<00:29:25.772> this<00:29:26.157> need<00:29:27.214> people<00:29:27.599> around<00:29:28.016> them<00:29:28.256> who<00:29:28.560> are<00:29:28.737> great<00:29:29.298> people<00:29:29.682> leaders<00:29:30.035> and<00:29:30.259> organizational<00:29:31.124> leaders<00:29:31.541> and<00:29:31.765> help<00:29:33.127> smooth<00:29:33.608> that<00:29:34.890> and<00:29:35.050> help<00:29:35.964> not<00:29:36.348> buffer<00:29:36.733> people<00:29:37.054> from<00:29:37.294> it,<00:29:37.454> but<00:29:37.614> help<00:29:37.791> people<00:29:38.191> interpret<00:29:39.634> the<00:29:39.714> signal<00:29:40.291> from<00:29:40.579> the<00:29:40.675> noise<00:29:41.941> because<00:29:42.198> these<00:29:42.518> do<00:29:42.678> tend<00:29:42.839> to<00:29:42.919> be<00:29:42.999> kind<00:29:43.223> of<00:29:43.319> noisy<00:29:43.720> leaders.

00:29:45.563 --> 00:29:50.739
Do<00:29:45.611> you<00:29:45.723> remember<00:29:46.188> when<00:29:46.428> the<00:29:47.309> Walter<00:29:47.726> Isaacson<00:29:48.784> Steve<00:29:49.168> Jobs<00:29:49.569> biography<00:29:50.290> came<00:29:50.546> out?

00:29:51.332 --> 00:29:52.422
And<00:29:51.428> everybody<00:29:51.957> read<00:29:52.133> it,<00:29:52.293> right?

00:29:52.614 --> 00:29:55.178
Particularly<00:29:53.015> those<00:29:53.335> in<00:29:53.415> tech<00:29:53.816> or<00:29:53.896> business,<00:29:54.361> they're<00:29:54.778> reading<00:29:55.098> it.

00:29:55.739 --> 00:30:02.615
And<00:29:55.884> there's<00:29:56.124> all<00:29:56.300> these<00:29:56.781> infamous<00:29:57.342> now<00:29:57.663> stories<00:29:58.544> of<00:29:59.201> Steve<00:29:59.506> Jobs'<00:29:59.987> temper<00:30:00.387> or<00:30:00.628> berating<00:30:01.109> people<00:30:01.429> in<00:30:01.509> meetings<00:30:01.846> and<00:30:01.926> all<00:30:02.054> this<00:30:02.150> type<00:30:02.327> of<00:30:02.391> stuff.

00:30:03.032 --> 00:30:06.878
People<00:30:03.272> started<00:30:03.753> wearing<00:30:05.180> turtlenecks,<00:30:06.478> right?

00:30:07.183 --> 00:30:09.090
Elizabeth<00:30:07.584> Holmes<00:30:07.904> did,<00:30:08.241> like<00:30:08.561> when<00:30:08.706> she<00:30:08.786> was<00:30:08.962> running—.

00:30:09.122 --> 00:30:11.559
You<00:30:09.170> have<00:30:09.219> a<00:30:09.283> very<00:30:09.587> famous<00:30:09.924> example<00:30:10.405> of<00:30:10.517> someone<00:30:10.805> who's<00:30:10.950> now<00:30:11.126> in<00:30:11.286> jail.

00:30:12.087 --> 00:30:13.354
Yeah.

00:30:13.931 --> 00:30:24.526
They're<00:30:14.171> trying<00:30:14.972> to<00:30:15.085> do<00:30:15.437> this<00:30:16.575> mimicking,<00:30:17.377> this<00:30:17.761> play<00:30:18.098> acting<00:30:18.739> of<00:30:18.899> Steve<00:30:19.284> Jobs<00:30:21.127> And<00:30:21.704> man,<00:30:22.185> was<00:30:22.410> that,<00:30:22.666> was<00:30:22.890> that<00:30:23.067> pretty<00:30:23.452> detrimental<00:30:24.189> actually.

00:30:24.590 --> 00:30:29.623
And<00:30:25.135> the<00:30:25.231> funny<00:30:25.535> thing<00:30:25.712> is<00:30:25.872> we're<00:30:26.096> on<00:30:26.193> the<00:30:26.353> verge<00:30:26.898> of<00:30:26.994> a<00:30:27.138> Walter<00:30:27.475> Isaacson<00:30:27.956> biography<00:30:28.677> of<00:30:28.822> Elon<00:30:29.094> Musk.

00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:39.513
And<00:30:30.264> I<00:30:30.424> wonder<00:30:31.146> if<00:30:31.306> that<00:30:31.482> same<00:30:31.867> phenomenon<00:30:33.246> is<00:30:33.406> about<00:30:33.711> to<00:30:33.807> happen<00:30:34.993> where<00:30:35.490> people<00:30:35.746> start<00:30:36.131> to<00:30:36.372> like,<00:30:36.596> hey,<00:30:36.772> because<00:30:37.173> of<00:30:37.317> these<00:30:37.558> stories<00:30:38.119> that<00:30:38.279> we're<00:30:38.439> hearing<00:30:38.776> and<00:30:38.856> it's<00:30:39.081> incredible.

00:30:39.562 --> 00:30:45.140
And<00:30:39.658> the<00:30:39.738> Steve<00:30:39.978> Jobs<00:30:40.203> stories<00:30:40.523> were<00:30:40.619> incredible<00:30:41.100> and<00:30:41.181> that<00:30:41.421> guy<00:30:41.661> was<00:30:41.886> incredible<00:30:43.008> and<00:30:43.585> maybe<00:30:43.906> even<00:30:44.082> a<00:30:44.146> good<00:30:44.370> organizational<00:30:44.948> leader.

00:30:45.188 --> 00:30:46.246
That's<00:30:45.412> what's<00:30:45.573> interesting<00:30:45.925> about<00:30:46.150> him.

00:30:46.294 --> 00:30:46.919
I'm<00:30:46.470> not<00:30:46.695> sure.

00:30:47.656 --> 00:30:48.009
Right?

00:30:48.073 --> 00:30:56.100
Because<00:30:48.377> he<00:30:49.018> did<00:30:49.194> something<00:30:49.691> so<00:30:50.316> remarkable<00:30:51.117> in<00:30:51.261> turning<00:30:51.598> Apple<00:30:51.838> around<00:30:52.159> when<00:30:52.255> he<00:30:52.383> came<00:30:52.559> back,<00:30:53.665> um,<00:30:54.305> and<00:30:54.402> it<00:30:54.482> was<00:30:54.786> all<00:30:54.962> pretty<00:30:55.203> much<00:30:55.443> organizationally.

00:30:56.164 --> 00:30:57.173
That<00:30:56.324> was<00:30:56.565> really<00:30:56.725> interesting.

00:30:57.270 --> 00:31:05.745
What<00:30:57.318> do<00:30:57.430> you<00:30:57.510> think<00:30:57.702> about<00:30:57.846> that<00:30:58.023> phenomenon,<00:30:58.567> like<00:30:59.192> the<00:30:59.224> Steve<00:30:59.529> Jobs<00:30:59.913> one,<00:31:00.250> and<00:31:00.410> what<00:31:00.570> we<00:31:00.730> might<00:31:01.131> be<00:31:01.275> about<00:31:01.531> to<00:31:01.676> experience<00:31:02.877> now<00:31:03.054> that<00:31:03.214> Walter<00:31:03.839> has<00:31:04.560> a<00:31:04.656> biography<00:31:05.313> of<00:31:05.441> Elon?

00:31:06.979 --> 00:31:16.694
Well,<00:31:07.860> Glenn,<00:31:08.117> I'm<00:31:08.261> glad<00:31:08.501> you<00:31:08.581> brought<00:31:08.822> this<00:31:08.982> up,<00:31:09.142> and<00:31:09.302> I'm<00:31:09.607> really<00:31:10.087> disturbed<00:31:10.584> that<00:31:10.728> you<00:31:10.888> brought<00:31:11.065> this<00:31:11.225> up<00:31:11.257> because<00:31:11.545> now<00:31:11.706> I'm<00:31:11.866> going<00:31:12.058> to<00:31:12.186> be<00:31:12.266> fixated<00:31:13.708> on<00:31:13.837> what's<00:31:14.109> going<00:31:14.205> to<00:31:14.253> happen<00:31:14.590> with<00:31:15.054> Walter<00:31:15.375> Isaacson<00:31:16.367> bio.

00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.962
I<00:31:17.346> had<00:31:17.526> not<00:31:17.771> seen<00:31:18.178> that<00:31:18.505> coming.

00:31:21.676 --> 00:31:29.839
I<00:31:21.692> think,<00:31:21.853> again,<00:31:22.175> I<00:31:22.255> think<00:31:22.416> we<00:31:22.513> need<00:31:22.722> to<00:31:22.883> understand<00:31:23.769> the<00:31:23.801> savant<00:31:24.976> phenomenon,<00:31:25.717> that<00:31:25.894> there<00:31:26.265> are<00:31:26.442> savants<00:31:27.231> and<00:31:27.327> they<00:31:27.553> do<00:31:27.730> amazing<00:31:28.519> things<00:31:29.018> in<00:31:29.163> this<00:31:29.565> world.

00:31:30.048 --> 00:31:37.921
And<00:31:30.548> it's<00:31:31.176> a<00:31:31.434> wonderful<00:31:31.983> strategy<00:31:32.644> to<00:31:32.870> replicate,<00:31:33.612> to<00:31:33.774> adopt<00:31:34.403> and<00:31:34.484> to<00:31:34.581> replicate<00:31:35.614> if<00:31:35.791> you<00:31:36.098> are<00:31:37.389> a<00:31:37.405> savant.

00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:47.282
Like,<00:31:38.196> if<00:31:38.276> you<00:31:38.841> kind<00:31:39.003> of<00:31:39.083> like<00:31:39.971> that<00:31:40.390> way<00:31:40.554> of<00:31:40.728> leading<00:31:41.803> can<00:31:42.124> work<00:31:42.429> for<00:31:42.751> you,<00:31:44.840> but<00:31:44.936> you<00:31:45.016> have<00:31:45.177> to<00:31:45.322> really<00:31:45.498> be<00:31:45.659> that<00:31:45.884> smart,<00:31:46.543> that<00:31:46.945> bold.

00:31:47.411 --> 00:31:50.672
And<00:31:47.587> I<00:31:47.989> think<00:31:48.873> the<00:31:49.033> bulk<00:31:49.274> of<00:31:49.371> the<00:31:49.515> population<00:31:50.383> isn't.

00:31:50.721 --> 00:31:52.151
So<00:31:51.026> it's<00:31:51.219> not<00:31:51.669> authentic.

00:31:52.231 --> 00:32:03.572
Like,<00:31:52.392> in<00:31:52.473> some<00:31:52.649> ways,<00:31:54.498> what<00:31:54.723> Walter<00:31:55.141> Isaacson<00:31:55.607> will<00:31:55.703> describe<00:31:56.105> is<00:31:56.186> a<00:31:56.346> very<00:31:56.748> authentic<00:31:57.230> leader,<00:31:57.938> you<00:31:58.018> know,<00:31:58.179> who,<00:31:58.741> like,<00:31:58.998> knows<00:31:59.320> who<00:31:59.464> he<00:31:59.722> is,<00:32:00.288> cannot<00:32:00.773> move<00:32:01.162> off<00:32:01.340> of<00:32:01.501> this,<00:32:02.456> and<00:32:02.537> he's<00:32:02.795> doing<00:32:03.103> his<00:32:03.362> thing.

00:32:03.766 --> 00:32:25.131
But<00:32:03.993> it's<00:32:04.171> something<00:32:04.559> that<00:32:04.656> I<00:32:04.737> think<00:32:04.979> is<00:32:05.141> dangerous<00:32:05.707> to<00:32:05.853> replicate,<00:32:06.743> you<00:32:07.471> know,<00:32:07.632> and<00:32:07.713> his<00:32:07.891> story<00:32:08.296> is<00:32:08.522> not<00:32:09.608> His<00:32:09.688> story<00:32:09.881> is<00:32:10.041> not<00:32:10.330> over,<00:32:11.309> you<00:32:11.550> know,<00:32:11.711> and<00:32:11.807> Steve's<00:32:12.256> story,<00:32:12.754> you<00:32:12.834> know,<00:32:13.380> we<00:32:13.541> like<00:32:13.733> to<00:32:14.279> talk<00:32:14.600> about<00:32:16.430> how,<00:32:16.751> you<00:32:16.847> know,<00:32:16.992> Steve<00:32:17.795> came<00:32:17.971> back<00:32:18.292> from<00:32:18.517> wandering<00:32:18.854> in<00:32:18.918> the<00:32:19.015> wilderness<00:32:19.721> and<00:32:19.897> how<00:32:20.780> like,<00:32:21.037> I<00:32:21.085> don't<00:32:21.358> know,<00:32:21.519> it<00:32:21.567> was<00:32:21.679> somehow<00:32:22.129> his<00:32:22.851> day<00:32:23.269> to<00:32:24.055> transform<00:32:24.858> Apple.

00:32:25.596 --> 00:32:29.947
But<00:32:26.078> the<00:32:26.174> Steve<00:32:26.543> that<00:32:26.720> came<00:32:26.880> back<00:32:27.137> to<00:32:27.346> Apple<00:32:27.523> was<00:32:27.683> a<00:32:27.844> very<00:32:28.165> different<00:32:28.582> Steve<00:32:28.887> that<00:32:29.112> went<00:32:29.369> into<00:32:29.706> it.

00:32:30.075 --> 00:32:46.931
And,<00:32:31.520> you<00:32:31.552> know,<00:32:31.632> if<00:32:31.760> you<00:32:31.857> talk<00:32:32.162> to<00:32:32.258> people<00:32:32.563> who<00:32:32.724> were,<00:32:33.061> you<00:32:34.120> know,<00:32:34.281> it's<00:32:34.425> interesting<00:32:35.148> when<00:32:35.292> I<00:32:35.388> talk<00:32:35.629> to<00:32:35.709> people<00:32:36.014> who<00:32:36.255> worked<00:32:36.576> closely<00:32:37.234> with<00:32:37.331> Steve,<00:32:37.716> not<00:32:37.957> people<00:32:38.198> who<00:32:38.358> read<00:32:38.599> the<00:32:38.679> book,<00:32:40.269> or<00:32:40.509> were<00:32:40.686> deep<00:32:40.911> in<00:32:40.991> the<00:32:41.103> organization,<00:32:41.649> but<00:32:41.794> people<00:32:42.051> who<00:32:42.131> worked<00:32:42.356> closely,<00:32:42.693> they<00:32:42.789> said,<00:32:43.078> oh<00:32:43.110> no,<00:32:43.271> Steve<00:32:43.961> Jobs<00:32:44.218> was<00:32:44.443> one<00:32:44.539> of<00:32:44.603> the<00:32:44.684> great<00:32:44.941> multipliers<00:32:46.305> of<00:32:46.370> our<00:32:46.530> time.

00:32:47.654 --> 00:32:49.564
Like,<00:32:47.895> I<00:32:48.376> did<00:32:48.473> my<00:32:48.697> best<00:32:48.938> work<00:32:49.179> around<00:32:49.500> him.

00:32:50.801 --> 00:32:57.030
And<00:32:50.945> they<00:32:51.042> would<00:32:51.202> describe<00:32:51.668> a<00:32:51.908> very<00:32:52.310> different<00:32:52.631> Steve<00:32:53.370> in<00:32:53.514> that<00:32:53.771> V2<00:32:54.397> part<00:32:54.879> of<00:32:54.959> his<00:32:55.216> career<00:32:55.697> than<00:32:56.243> his<00:32:56.420> V1.

00:32:57.142 --> 00:33:17.892
And<00:32:57.865> I<00:32:57.929> was<00:32:58.090> just<00:32:58.331> at<00:32:59.133> a<00:32:59.214> conference<00:32:59.952> 2<00:33:00.113> days<00:33:00.370> ago<00:33:00.755> where<00:33:01.782> one<00:33:01.879> of<00:33:01.943> the<00:33:02.039> directors<00:33:02.505> at<00:33:02.601> Pixar<00:33:03.067> was<00:33:03.163> talking<00:33:03.629> about<00:33:04.062> the<00:33:04.142> movie<00:33:04.592> Up<00:33:05.074> and<00:33:05.716> what<00:33:05.812> they<00:33:05.957> were<00:33:06.053> able<00:33:06.294> to<00:33:06.519> do<00:33:06.776> to<00:33:06.937> create<00:33:07.258> this<00:33:07.563> kind<00:33:07.724> of<00:33:07.804> strange—<00:33:09.266> and<00:33:09.507> so<00:33:09.603> many<00:33:09.812> of<00:33:09.893> Pixar's<00:33:10.374> movies<00:33:10.712> are<00:33:10.792> based<00:33:11.097> on<00:33:11.178> these<00:33:11.901> very<00:33:12.318> counterintuitive,<00:33:13.925> strange<00:33:14.969> twists<00:33:16.013> plot<00:33:16.495> that<00:33:16.800> turn<00:33:16.977> out<00:33:17.137> to<00:33:17.218> be<00:33:17.378> delightful.

00:33:18.342 --> 00:33:21.571
And<00:33:18.406> he<00:33:18.503> said,<00:33:19.226> we<00:33:19.451> had<00:33:19.627> an<00:33:19.724> amazing<00:33:20.190> boss<00:33:20.591> while<00:33:20.752> we<00:33:20.832> were<00:33:20.977> doing<00:33:21.378> Up.

00:33:22.021 --> 00:33:23.836
Steve<00:33:22.374> Young—<00:33:22.760> Steve<00:33:23.081> Young,<00:33:23.627> whoops.

00:33:24.928 --> 00:33:30.422
Steve<00:33:25.250> Jobs<00:33:26.760> believed<00:33:27.820> in<00:33:27.900> what<00:33:28.061> we<00:33:28.221> were<00:33:28.446> doing,<00:33:28.944> and<00:33:29.089> he<00:33:29.426> left<00:33:29.764> us<00:33:29.989> alone.

00:33:30.776 --> 00:33:39.377
He<00:33:30.872> saw<00:33:31.274> the<00:33:31.434> promise<00:33:31.852> in<00:33:31.980> this<00:33:32.141> idea<00:33:32.623> that<00:33:33.602> this<00:33:33.907> older<00:33:34.148> man's<00:33:34.469> wife<00:33:34.805> is<00:33:34.886> gonna<00:33:35.206> die<00:33:35.591> and<00:33:35.688> he's<00:33:35.864> now<00:33:36.073> gonna<00:33:36.233> be<00:33:36.329> a<00:33:36.570> widower<00:33:37.195> and<00:33:37.292> like<00:33:37.516> him<00:33:37.773> rediscovering<00:33:38.495> like<00:33:38.719> joy<00:33:38.896> in<00:33:39.056> life.

00:33:39.762 --> 00:33:42.553
And<00:33:39.858> it<00:33:39.938> was<00:33:40.099> so<00:33:40.500> risky,<00:33:41.542> but<00:33:41.703> Steve<00:33:41.943> believed<00:33:42.425> in<00:33:42.489> it.

00:33:42.601 --> 00:33:44.847
And<00:33:42.745> he<00:33:42.906> said,<00:33:43.227> and<00:33:43.371> Steve<00:33:44.093> left<00:33:44.350> us<00:33:44.510> alone.

00:33:44.911 --> 00:33:48.809
Like<00:33:45.135> he<00:33:45.232> stayed<00:33:45.553> interested<00:33:46.018> in<00:33:46.098> the<00:33:46.194> project,<00:33:46.515> but<00:33:46.659> he<00:33:46.996> never<00:33:47.782> made<00:33:47.959> script<00:33:48.279> changes.

00:33:49.146 --> 00:33:50.284
He<00:33:49.242> never<00:33:49.482> changed<00:33:49.787> our<00:33:49.883> visuals.

00:33:50.349 --> 00:33:52.177
Like<00:33:50.525> he<00:33:50.685> let<00:33:51.151> us<00:33:51.391> do<00:33:51.552> our<00:33:51.792> things.

00:33:53.076 --> 00:34:04.750
And<00:33:53.156> so<00:33:53.236> that's<00:33:54.230> Steve<00:33:54.680> Jobs,<00:33:55.177> not<00:33:55.417> just<00:33:55.658> V1,<00:33:56.059> V2,<00:33:56.364> that's<00:33:56.604> kind<00:33:56.765> of<00:33:56.845> like<00:33:57.021> that<00:33:57.262> V3<00:33:57.743> version<00:33:58.128> of<00:33:58.224> him<00:33:58.321> when<00:33:58.465> he<00:33:58.561> now<00:33:59.492> is,<00:33:59.893> you<00:33:59.989> know,<00:34:00.374> leading<00:34:02.183> as<00:34:02.362> an<00:34:02.459> investor<00:34:03.255> leader<00:34:03.824> with<00:34:04.295> Pixar.

00:34:05.595 --> 00:34:12.376
And<00:34:05.839> I<00:34:05.936> think<00:34:06.342> if<00:34:06.651> you<00:34:06.814> talk<00:34:07.138> to<00:34:07.463> Ed<00:34:07.577> Catmull,<00:34:08.916> founder<00:34:09.159> CEO<00:34:09.595> of<00:34:09.741> Pixar,<00:34:10.468> he'll<00:34:10.953> tell<00:34:11.260> you<00:34:11.503> the<00:34:11.584> same<00:34:11.907> story.

00:34:13.135 --> 00:34:24.448
And<00:34:13.216> so<00:34:13.313> like<00:34:13.539> we've<00:34:13.895> seen<00:34:14.978> this<00:34:15.237> leader<00:34:15.544> evolve<00:34:17.887> and<00:34:18.372> I<00:34:18.469> don't<00:34:18.631> know<00:34:18.696> that<00:34:18.793> he<00:34:18.875> was<00:34:19.037> ever<00:34:19.297> a<00:34:19.427> great<00:34:19.768> organizational<00:34:20.662> leader,<00:34:21.068> but<00:34:21.783> he<00:34:21.881> evolved<00:34:22.287> to<00:34:22.368> the<00:34:22.531> point<00:34:22.774> where<00:34:22.921> he<00:34:23.165> understood<00:34:23.587> Tim<00:34:23.831> Cook<00:34:24.140> was.

00:34:25.640 --> 00:34:33.788
And<00:34:26.249> I<00:34:26.331> remember<00:34:26.562> the<00:34:26.644> first<00:34:26.809> time<00:34:26.924> I<00:34:27.056> went<00:34:27.154> to<00:34:27.253> meet<00:34:27.401> with<00:34:27.566> Tim<00:34:27.797> Cook,<00:34:29.489> And<00:34:29.649> honestly,<00:34:30.211> I<00:34:30.371> went<00:34:31.430> with<00:34:31.751> kind<00:34:31.927> of<00:34:32.055> my<00:34:32.232> emotional<00:34:32.793> body<00:34:33.259> armor<00:34:33.660> on.

00:34:33.996 --> 00:34:35.248
I<00:34:34.013> was<00:34:34.157> gonna<00:34:34.301> have<00:34:34.478> this<00:34:34.718> one-on-one.

00:34:35.344 --> 00:34:43.365
I<00:34:35.424> had<00:34:35.585> been<00:34:35.681> doing<00:34:35.921> some<00:34:37.750> coaching<00:34:38.087> work<00:34:38.472> at<00:34:38.633> Apple<00:34:38.889> and<00:34:39.034> I<00:34:39.114> was<00:34:39.772> coaching<00:34:40.173> a<00:34:40.253> couple<00:34:40.558> of<00:34:40.878> executives<00:34:41.616> who<00:34:41.841> worked<00:34:42.820> for<00:34:42.964> Tim.

00:34:44.664 --> 00:34:46.734
And<00:34:44.809> I<00:34:44.905> went<00:34:45.081> in<00:34:45.162> there<00:34:45.306> thinking,<00:34:45.547> this<00:34:45.707> guy's<00:34:45.948> probably<00:34:46.269> a<00:34:46.349> jerk.

00:34:46.974 --> 00:34:51.530
You<00:34:47.006> know,<00:34:47.215> he's<00:34:47.375> the<00:34:47.440> number<00:34:47.776> 2<00:34:48.274> and<00:34:48.354> he's<00:34:48.514> probably<00:34:48.819> like<00:34:49.557> kind<00:34:49.814> of<00:34:49.942> like<00:34:50.135> a<00:34:50.183> Steve<00:34:50.905> lookalike.

00:34:51.707 --> 00:34:54.947
And<00:34:52.044> what<00:34:52.188> I<00:34:52.268> saw<00:34:52.509> was<00:34:52.621> someone<00:34:52.990> who<00:34:53.151> was<00:34:53.953> so<00:34:54.450> different.

00:34:56.233 --> 00:35:05.488
So<00:34:57.165> understated,<00:34:58.064> so<00:34:58.546> thoughtful,<00:34:59.671> but<00:34:59.993> piercing<00:35:00.957> in<00:35:01.101> his<00:35:01.278> intelligence<00:35:02.226> and<00:35:02.885> curious<00:35:03.913> and<00:35:05.119> warm.

00:35:06.083 --> 00:35:14.840
And<00:35:06.404> in<00:35:06.565> Clinton,<00:35:06.741> you<00:35:06.822> know,<00:35:06.886> I<00:35:06.983> know<00:35:07.143> we've<00:35:07.529> had<00:35:07.786> Tim<00:35:08.172> out<00:35:08.332> at<00:35:09.296> the<00:35:09.377> Silicon<00:35:09.795> Slopes<00:35:10.373> Summit<00:35:11.000> and,<00:35:11.241> you<00:35:11.401> know,<00:35:12.285> like<00:35:13.314> you've<00:35:13.490> been<00:35:13.635> able<00:35:13.812> to<00:35:13.956> experience<00:35:14.615> that.

00:35:15.804 --> 00:35:18.182
And<00:35:15.981> that's<00:35:16.367> who<00:35:16.463> Steve<00:35:16.865> entrusted<00:35:17.813> Apple<00:35:18.070> to.

00:35:19.195 --> 00:35:20.705
And<00:35:19.275> that's<00:35:19.580> who<00:35:19.757> he<00:35:20.079> partnered<00:35:20.641> with.

00:35:20.946 --> 00:35:23.351
To<00:35:21.042> do<00:35:21.267> all<00:35:21.363> this<00:35:21.587> amazing,<00:35:22.566> amazing<00:35:22.967> work.

00:35:24.811 --> 00:35:28.868
So<00:35:25.356> basically<00:35:25.677> what<00:35:25.773> we're<00:35:25.933> learning<00:35:26.238> in<00:35:26.334> this<00:35:26.479> conversation<00:35:26.896> is<00:35:26.960> like,<00:35:27.120> you<00:35:27.216> can't<00:35:27.537> fake<00:35:28.082> authenticity.

00:35:29.686 --> 00:35:33.118
Authenticity<00:35:30.969> is<00:35:31.482> super<00:35:31.931> critical<00:35:32.492> for<00:35:32.749> leaders.

00:35:33.631 --> 00:35:46.797
And<00:35:33.711> what's<00:35:34.016> interesting<00:35:34.513> about<00:35:34.818> that<00:35:35.138> is<00:35:36.758> I<00:35:36.838> say<00:35:37.159> that,<00:35:37.624> and<00:35:37.720> then<00:35:37.945> you<00:35:38.105> look<00:35:38.282> at<00:35:38.426> like,<00:35:38.763> again,<00:35:39.148> on<00:35:39.180> a<00:35:39.244> macro<00:35:39.709> level,<00:35:39.949> maybe<00:35:40.126> even<00:35:40.302> a<00:35:40.366> political,<00:35:41.954> uh,<00:35:42.531> world,<00:35:43.493> I<00:35:43.574> think<00:35:43.814> you<00:35:43.959> probably<00:35:44.456> can<00:35:45.803> fake<00:35:46.124> authenticity.

00:35:47.410 --> 00:35:50.597
In<00:35:47.507> the<00:35:47.669> political<00:35:48.219> world<00:35:48.542> when<00:35:48.640> we're<00:35:48.882> talking<00:35:49.044> about<00:35:49.287> leading<00:35:49.594> nations<00:35:50.015> and<00:35:50.160> things<00:35:50.387> like<00:35:50.500> that.

00:35:51.050 --> 00:35:51.729
Could<00:35:51.147> that<00:35:51.309> be<00:35:51.470> true?

00:35:51.875 --> 00:35:52.425
Is<00:35:51.956> that<00:35:52.117> possible?

00:35:54.830 --> 00:35:56.605
Oh,<00:35:54.862> I<00:35:54.878> don't<00:35:55.088> think<00:35:55.265> people<00:35:55.572> can<00:35:55.733> fake<00:35:55.927> it<00:35:55.992> for<00:35:56.153> too<00:35:56.379> long.

00:35:56.798 --> 00:35:59.962
I<00:35:56.960> think<00:35:57.686> people<00:35:58.073> reveal<00:35:58.558> themselves<00:35:59.381> to<00:35:59.687> us.

00:36:00.252 --> 00:36:08.056
And,<00:36:04.061> you<00:36:04.110> know,<00:36:04.207> like,<00:36:05.274> and<00:36:05.436> I<00:36:05.743> love<00:36:05.905> the<00:36:06.002> way<00:36:06.164> you<00:36:06.245> frame<00:36:06.633> that<00:36:06.892> as<00:36:07.118> you<00:36:07.280> can't<00:36:07.684> fake<00:36:07.959> it.

00:36:08.170 --> 00:36:22.253
And<00:36:08.267> that's<00:36:08.493> one<00:36:08.574> of<00:36:08.606> the<00:36:08.655> things<00:36:08.833> I<00:36:08.978> really<00:36:09.156> admire<00:36:09.480> about<00:36:09.803> Tim<00:36:10.111> Cook<00:36:10.531> is<00:36:10.758> he<00:36:10.936> did<00:36:11.162> not<00:36:12.810> I've<00:36:13.117> been<00:36:13.279> working<00:36:13.764> closely<00:36:14.168> with<00:36:14.330> Tim's<00:36:14.653> team<00:36:15.203> when<00:36:16.271> Tim<00:36:16.610> is<00:36:16.756> now<00:36:17.257> taking<00:36:17.710> over<00:36:18.050> for<00:36:18.228> Steve<00:36:19.166> after<00:36:19.732> Steve's<00:36:20.055> death<00:36:20.314> and<00:36:20.896> stepping<00:36:21.284> into<00:36:21.446> that<00:36:21.608> CEO<00:36:22.076> role.

00:36:22.575 --> 00:36:30.626
And<00:36:25.377> I<00:36:25.409> was<00:36:25.699> really<00:36:25.956> worried<00:36:26.504> about<00:36:26.842> Tim<00:36:27.148> because<00:36:28.533> people<00:36:28.855> who've<00:36:29.080> worked<00:36:29.241> with<00:36:29.402> Tim<00:36:29.821> love<00:36:30.304> Tim.

00:36:30.771 --> 00:36:31.640
And<00:36:31.012> I<00:36:31.173> was<00:36:31.334> one<00:36:31.431> of<00:36:31.463> those<00:36:31.560> people.

00:36:31.688 --> 00:36:34.339
I'm<00:36:31.833> just<00:36:31.993> an<00:36:32.234> outside<00:36:33.263> coach<00:36:33.665> and<00:36:33.761> a<00:36:33.841> consultant.

00:36:34.404 --> 00:36:36.991
But<00:36:34.564> here's<00:36:35.271> someone<00:36:35.754> I<00:36:35.914> love<00:36:36.091> and<00:36:36.155> I<00:36:36.252> want<00:36:36.380> to<00:36:36.412> see<00:36:36.573> successful.

00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.064
I'm<00:36:37.135> like,<00:36:37.859> oh,<00:36:37.939> God,<00:36:38.164> how's<00:36:38.357> he<00:36:38.421> going<00:36:38.566> to<00:36:38.662> do<00:36:38.823> this?

00:36:39.208 --> 00:36:44.526
So<00:36:39.482> much<00:36:39.851> pressure<00:36:40.189> for<00:36:40.349> him<00:36:40.655> to<00:36:40.914> step<00:36:41.360> into<00:36:41.600> Steve's<00:36:42.229> in<00:36:42.294> his<00:36:42.439> shoes<00:36:43.022> and<00:36:43.102> to<00:36:43.264> be<00:36:44.089> Steve.

00:36:44.623 --> 00:36:46.564
And<00:36:44.785> he's<00:36:45.108> just,<00:36:45.836> he's<00:36:46.030> not.

00:36:47.389 --> 00:37:00.130
And<00:36:47.535> I<00:36:47.632> think<00:36:47.777> Tim<00:36:47.955> has<00:36:48.117> done<00:36:48.343> an<00:36:48.505> amazing<00:36:49.087> job,<00:36:50.100> like<00:36:50.682> stepping<00:36:51.102> into<00:36:51.328> the<00:36:51.426> parts<00:36:51.684> of<00:36:51.814> his<00:36:51.992> role<00:36:52.153> that<00:36:52.299> are<00:36:52.380> probably<00:36:52.638> a<00:36:52.719> stretch<00:36:53.188> for<00:36:53.350> him,<00:36:53.851> like<00:36:54.255> being<00:36:54.498> a<00:36:54.579> bit<00:36:54.676> of<00:36:54.805> a<00:36:54.821> showman<00:36:55.452> for<00:36:56.034> launches<00:36:56.439> and<00:36:56.584> doing<00:36:56.843> what<00:36:57.004> he<00:36:57.150> needs<00:36:57.409> to<00:36:57.570> do,<00:36:57.813> but<00:36:57.991> staying<00:36:58.379> true<00:36:59.285> to<00:36:59.430> who<00:36:59.576> he<00:36:59.901> is.

00:37:01.221 --> 00:37:15.908
And<00:37:01.612> I<00:37:01.628> don't<00:37:01.807> know,<00:37:04.763> maybe<00:37:05.005> there's<00:37:05.312> certain<00:37:05.490> innovations<00:37:06.039> that<00:37:06.201> will<00:37:06.297> never<00:37:06.620> happen<00:37:07.008> because<00:37:08.252> Steve<00:37:08.639> isn't<00:37:09.269> there<00:37:09.528> to<00:37:09.996> grab<00:37:10.271> someone<00:37:10.577> by<00:37:10.739> the<00:37:10.884> throat<00:37:11.127> and<00:37:11.240> intimidate<00:37:11.547> them<00:37:14.000> him<00:37:14.177> into<00:37:14.598> doing<00:37:14.937> something<00:37:15.406> brilliant.

00:37:16.053 --> 00:37:21.745
But,<00:37:16.296> you<00:37:16.393> know,<00:37:16.862> look<00:37:17.023> what<00:37:17.185> Tim<00:37:17.363> has<00:37:19.126> continued<00:37:19.676> to<00:37:19.773> build<00:37:20.015> and<00:37:20.161> create<00:37:20.581> just<00:37:21.066> being<00:37:21.373> himself.

00:37:21.794 --> 00:37:23.007
So<00:37:22.748> I<00:37:22.764> don't<00:37:22.926> know.

00:37:23.088 --> 00:37:28.391
I<00:37:23.168> don't<00:37:23.395> know<00:37:23.460> that,<00:37:23.880> um,<00:37:26.063> I<00:37:26.095> don't<00:37:26.645> know<00:37:26.806> that<00:37:27.033> you<00:37:27.130> could<00:37:27.291> fake<00:37:27.679> it<00:37:27.776> that<00:37:28.084> long.

00:37:28.649 --> 00:37:33.532
And,<00:37:29.296> you<00:37:29.393> know,<00:37:29.458> I<00:37:29.555> think<00:37:29.781> you<00:37:29.959> can<00:37:30.945> maybe<00:37:31.899> fake<00:37:32.611> it<00:37:32.853> till<00:37:33.031> you<00:37:33.193> make<00:37:33.499> it.

00:37:33.661 --> 00:37:39.456
You<00:37:33.758> know,<00:37:33.822> there's<00:37:34.000> that<00:37:34.258> very<00:37:34.565> common<00:37:35.065> saying,<00:37:36.566> like,<00:37:36.825> fake<00:37:37.002> it<00:37:37.067> till<00:37:37.147> you<00:37:37.244> make<00:37:37.551> it<00:37:37.632> isn't<00:37:37.874> about<00:37:38.197> being<00:37:38.907> inauthentic.

00:37:39.504 --> 00:37:43.603
It's<00:37:39.698> like,<00:37:40.259> knowing<00:37:40.517> what<00:37:40.679> you're<00:37:40.905> trying<00:37:41.632> to<00:37:43.021> become.

00:37:45.540 --> 00:37:54.957
Like,<00:37:45.735> okay,<00:37:45.930> I'm<00:37:46.060> trying<00:37:46.222> to<00:37:46.304> be<00:37:46.450> maybe<00:37:46.710> a<00:37:46.775> little<00:37:46.954> bit<00:37:47.182> more<00:37:47.279> assertive,<00:37:47.865> so<00:37:48.092> I'm<00:37:48.239> gonna<00:37:48.824> like<00:37:49.702> conjure<00:37:50.043> up<00:37:50.190> a<00:37:50.369> little<00:37:50.694> false<00:37:51.182> confidence<00:37:52.525> because<00:37:52.866> it's<00:37:52.995> something<00:37:53.401> I<00:37:53.563> really<00:37:53.887> can<00:37:54.211> do<00:37:54.373> and<00:37:54.535> want<00:37:54.730> to<00:37:54.860> do.

00:37:55.022 --> 00:38:06.503
Like,<00:37:55.362> you're<00:37:55.686> just<00:37:56.481> squaring<00:37:56.886> your<00:37:56.967> shoulders<00:37:57.389> as<00:37:57.486> you<00:37:57.632> grow<00:37:57.937> into<00:37:58.274> something<00:37:58.901> that<00:37:59.303> is<00:38:00.910> authentically<00:38:03.401> desired<00:38:04.044> and<00:38:04.382> authentically,<00:38:05.330> um,<00:38:05.732> possible<00:38:06.230> for<00:38:06.455> you.

00:38:07.514 --> 00:38:10.481
I<00:38:07.578> think<00:38:07.738> that's<00:38:07.979> very<00:38:08.155> different<00:38:08.396> than<00:38:08.556> pretending<00:38:09.102> to<00:38:09.198> be<00:38:09.294> something<00:38:09.823> that<00:38:10.064> you're<00:38:10.144> not.

00:38:10.722 --> 00:38:13.176
I<00:38:10.882> think<00:38:11.043> people<00:38:11.347> are<00:38:11.444> smart<00:38:11.989> and<00:38:12.085> see<00:38:12.406> through<00:38:12.791> all<00:38:12.887> of<00:38:13.048> it.

00:38:13.930 --> 00:38:16.224
I<00:38:14.267> don't<00:38:14.475> think<00:38:14.587> it's<00:38:14.796> ever<00:38:14.972> a<00:38:15.037> great<00:38:15.293> leadership<00:38:15.710> strategy.

00:38:16.801 --> 00:38:16.881
Yeah.

00:38:17.443 --> 00:38:23.522
And<00:38:17.683> all<00:38:18.100> of<00:38:18.197> our<00:38:18.341> political<00:38:18.806> leaders<00:38:19.063> across<00:38:19.464> the<00:38:19.528> spectrum,<00:38:20.121> like,<00:38:20.587> I<00:38:20.667> think<00:38:21.068> we<00:38:21.244> know<00:38:21.774> who<00:38:21.950> they<00:38:22.175> are<00:38:22.656> and<00:38:22.912> what<00:38:23.137> they're<00:38:23.297> doing.

00:38:24.180 --> 00:38:24.741
That's<00:38:24.292> a<00:38:24.356> good<00:38:24.452> point.

00:38:25.302 --> 00:38:25.703
That's<00:38:25.479> a<00:38:25.495> good<00:38:25.639> point.

00:38:25.784 --> 00:38:27.211
Even<00:38:26.024> when<00:38:26.185> it's<00:38:26.345> inauthentic,<00:38:26.907> we<00:38:27.003> know<00:38:27.163> it.

00:38:27.564 --> 00:38:28.863
We<00:38:27.660> just<00:38:27.805> see<00:38:28.767> it.

00:38:28.992 --> 00:38:29.457
That's<00:38:29.184> interesting.

00:38:29.505 --> 00:38:29.617
Right.

00:38:30.612 --> 00:38:41.245
Oh,<00:38:30.692> and<00:38:30.772> if<00:38:30.852> we<00:38:30.997> get<00:38:31.173> into<00:38:31.398> the<00:38:31.494> politics<00:38:32.216> on<00:38:32.360> this,<00:38:32.617> I<00:38:32.777> think<00:38:33.098> we<00:38:33.579> know<00:38:34.061> who<00:38:34.769> who<00:38:35.253> are<00:38:35.415> these<00:38:35.592> people<00:38:35.899> are<00:38:36.077> and<00:38:36.222> who<00:38:36.351> our<00:38:36.480> choices<00:38:37.191> are,<00:38:37.934> but<00:38:38.903> we're<00:38:39.145> trying<00:38:39.387> to<00:38:39.533> make<00:38:39.791> them<00:38:39.936> into<00:38:40.130> something<00:38:40.663> that<00:38:40.841> they're<00:38:41.083> not.

00:38:41.325 --> 00:38:43.329
We're<00:38:41.487> trying<00:38:41.648> to<00:38:41.794> get<00:38:41.955> them<00:38:42.133> to<00:38:42.230> do<00:38:42.375> a<00:38:42.520> job<00:38:42.924> for<00:38:43.102> us.

00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:49.629
Um,<00:38:44.964> and<00:38:45.126> so<00:38:45.353> I<00:38:45.515> think<00:38:46.989> a<00:38:47.054> lot<00:38:47.215> of<00:38:47.296> this<00:38:47.960> problem<00:38:48.365> is<00:38:48.511> of<00:38:48.592> our<00:38:48.835> own<00:38:49.175> constructing.

00:38:52.185 --> 00:38:53.231
What<00:38:52.251> are<00:38:52.334> you<00:38:52.500> working<00:38:52.749> on<00:38:52.849> these<00:38:53.081> days?

00:38:55.337 --> 00:39:03.820
Well,<00:38:55.826> um,<00:38:56.234> I've<00:38:56.397> spent<00:38:56.559> the<00:38:56.641> last<00:38:56.820> couple<00:38:57.130> years<00:38:57.456> working<00:38:57.944> on<00:38:58.352> this<00:38:58.612> idea<00:38:58.938> of<00:38:59.345> impact<00:39:00.062> and<00:39:00.307> what<00:39:00.421> are<00:39:00.502> the<00:39:00.584> most<00:39:00.893> impactful<00:39:02.025> people<00:39:02.413> do<00:39:02.526> inside<00:39:02.850> of<00:39:02.995> organizations.

00:39:04.030 --> 00:39:14.232
And,<00:39:05.890> you<00:39:05.922> know,<00:39:06.294> I<00:39:06.634> really<00:39:06.876> entered<00:39:07.199> into<00:39:07.458> this<00:39:07.685> work<00:39:07.927> because<00:39:08.234> I<00:39:08.331> spent<00:39:08.719> a<00:39:10.110> decade<00:39:10.514> plus<00:39:10.902> trying<00:39:11.096> to<00:39:11.210> help<00:39:11.418> leaders<00:39:11.981> create<00:39:12.287> environments<00:39:12.833> where<00:39:13.090> people<00:39:13.412> could<00:39:13.492> be<00:39:13.637> at<00:39:13.733> their<00:39:13.814> best.

00:39:15.405 --> 00:39:19.359
And<00:39:16.643> it<00:39:16.707> probably<00:39:17.012> came<00:39:17.189> most<00:39:17.430> into<00:39:17.672> focus<00:39:18.057> when<00:39:18.170> I'm<00:39:18.459> out<00:39:18.636> teaching<00:39:18.958> a<00:39:19.038> workshop.

00:39:19.424 --> 00:39:24.506
I<00:39:19.440> think<00:39:19.617> it<00:39:19.681> was<00:39:19.826> at<00:39:20.726> Salesforce<00:39:21.530> and<00:39:22.334> an<00:39:22.479> engineering<00:39:22.897> manager<00:39:23.283> is<00:39:23.364> like,<00:39:23.525> yeah,<00:39:23.782> I<00:39:23.798> wanna<00:39:23.943> be<00:39:24.087> a<00:39:24.104> multiplier.

00:39:24.650 --> 00:39:27.529
That<00:39:24.731> sounds<00:39:24.988> great,<00:39:26.114> but<00:39:26.419> you<00:39:26.516> can't<00:39:26.677> multiply<00:39:27.159> zero.

00:39:28.751 --> 00:39:29.779
I'm<00:39:29.217> like,<00:39:29.539> what?

00:39:30.181 --> 00:39:32.815
I'm<00:39:30.358> assuming<00:39:30.727> he's<00:39:30.856> like,<00:39:31.129> I<00:39:31.161> got<00:39:31.305> a<00:39:31.322> bunch<00:39:31.546> of<00:39:31.691> dummies<00:39:32.189> working<00:39:32.574> for<00:39:32.735> me.

00:39:33.715 --> 00:39:42.052
And<00:39:33.779> then<00:39:33.892> he<00:39:34.116> says,<00:39:34.422> yeah,<00:39:34.598> I've<00:39:34.759> got<00:39:34.952> to<00:39:35.000> show<00:39:35.385> up<00:39:35.546> with<00:39:35.642> the<00:39:35.803> right<00:39:36.044> kinds<00:39:36.446> of<00:39:37.233> mindsets<00:39:37.666> and<00:39:37.731> practices<00:39:38.373> as<00:39:38.518> a<00:39:38.534> leader,<00:39:38.935> but<00:39:39.835> so<00:39:40.060> do<00:39:40.140> the<00:39:40.220> people<00:39:41.329> who<00:39:41.489> work<00:39:41.730> for<00:39:41.811> me.

00:39:42.951 --> 00:39:46.806
And<00:39:43.015> so<00:39:43.112> that<00:39:43.417> really<00:39:43.674> got<00:39:43.851> me<00:39:44.059> looking<00:39:44.541> at<00:39:44.718> what<00:39:44.814> does<00:39:45.039> outstanding<00:39:45.666> contribution<00:39:46.388> look<00:39:46.565> like?

00:39:46.886 --> 00:39:57.134
Not<00:39:47.127> just<00:39:47.931> what<00:39:48.091> is<00:39:48.188> it<00:39:48.316> that<00:39:48.412> great<00:39:48.718> leaders<00:39:49.119> do,<00:39:50.725> kind<00:39:50.902> of<00:39:50.982> like<00:39:51.946> people<00:39:52.267> who<00:39:52.332> are<00:39:52.508> doing<00:39:52.830> amazing<00:39:53.376> work,<00:39:53.777> what<00:39:53.954> are<00:39:54.179> they<00:39:54.500> doing<00:39:54.982> irrespective<00:39:56.524> of<00:39:56.668> their<00:39:56.861> leaders.

00:39:57.230 --> 00:39:58.515
How<00:39:57.423> are<00:39:57.568> they<00:39:57.648> showing<00:39:58.274> up?

00:39:58.675 --> 00:40:08.711
And<00:39:58.788> the<00:39:58.932> people<00:39:59.237> who<00:39:59.398> play<00:39:59.735> big<00:40:01.180> and<00:40:01.341> really<00:40:01.726> make<00:40:01.903> a<00:40:01.983> difference,<00:40:02.545> like<00:40:02.706> the<00:40:02.850> true<00:40:03.027> difference<00:40:03.492> makers<00:40:05.194> in<00:40:05.355> the<00:40:05.580> work<00:40:05.821> world,<00:40:06.238> like,<00:40:06.864> what<00:40:06.961> do<00:40:07.041> they<00:40:07.202> do<00:40:07.378> differently<00:40:07.844> than<00:40:08.069> everyone<00:40:08.470> else?

00:40:09.032 --> 00:40:18.698
And<00:40:09.353> I've<00:40:09.530> been<00:40:10.333> working<00:40:10.638> on<00:40:10.718> this<00:40:10.895> for<00:40:11.039> the<00:40:11.119> last<00:40:11.376> couple<00:40:11.617> of<00:40:11.762> years,<00:40:12.324> and<00:40:12.645> I'm<00:40:12.902> just<00:40:13.303> now<00:40:13.528> at<00:40:13.688> the<00:40:13.865> point<00:40:14.170> where<00:40:14.266> I'm<00:40:15.069> starting<00:40:15.390> to<00:40:15.551> turn<00:40:15.663> my<00:40:15.872> attention<00:40:16.274> to<00:40:16.418> the<00:40:16.514> next<00:40:17.317> big<00:40:17.719> research<00:40:18.200> project.

00:40:19.003 --> 00:40:20.480
So<00:40:19.726> that<00:40:19.967> I'm<00:40:20.207> about<00:40:20.448> to—.

00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:20.978
That's<00:40:20.593> exciting.

00:40:21.796 --> 00:40:23.224
It<00:40:21.893> is,<00:40:22.518> it<00:40:22.678> is<00:40:22.791> exciting.

00:40:24.282 --> 00:40:25.068
That's<00:40:24.539> very<00:40:24.859> cool.

00:40:25.645 --> 00:40:27.169
Well,<00:40:25.757> Liz,<00:40:25.902> I<00:40:25.982> can't<00:40:26.222> thank<00:40:26.383> you<00:40:26.463> enough<00:40:26.607> for<00:40:26.768> joining<00:40:27.088> us.

00:40:27.489 --> 00:40:29.478
Uh,<00:40:27.730> again,<00:40:28.291> you're,<00:40:28.532> you're<00:40:28.708> one<00:40:28.852> of<00:40:28.884> my<00:40:29.109> heroes.

00:40:29.830 --> 00:40:31.498
I<00:40:30.071> love<00:40:30.793> reading<00:40:31.033> your<00:40:31.178> books.

00:40:31.739 --> 00:40:33.503
I<00:40:31.819> love,<00:40:32.380> you<00:40:32.476> know,<00:40:32.637> watching<00:40:33.022> you<00:40:33.054> speak.

00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:35.844
I<00:40:34.064> love<00:40:34.224> having<00:40:34.481> you<00:40:34.641> as,<00:40:35.026> as<00:40:35.122> a<00:40:35.203> guest<00:40:35.523> on<00:40:35.603> the<00:40:35.684> show.

00:40:35.924 --> 00:40:45.850
We<00:40:36.149> end<00:40:36.309> every<00:40:36.485> show<00:40:36.950> now<00:40:37.592> the<00:40:37.672> same<00:40:37.993> way<00:40:38.249> with<00:40:38.474> the,<00:40:38.634> with<00:40:38.811> this<00:40:39.035> question,<00:40:40.158> and<00:40:40.238> that<00:40:40.414> is,<00:40:40.575> we<00:40:40.735> believe<00:40:41.136> chances<00:40:41.697> are,<00:40:42.018> the<00:40:42.242> chances<00:40:42.563> that<00:40:42.675> are<00:40:42.884> given<00:40:44.006> are<00:40:44.103> just<00:40:44.311> as<00:40:44.487> important<00:40:44.824> as<00:40:44.904> the<00:40:44.985> chances<00:40:45.450> we<00:40:45.546> take.

00:40:46.989 --> 00:40:53.152
And<00:40:47.133> I<00:40:47.230> wonder,<00:40:47.711> or<00:40:48.304> who<00:40:48.953> stands<00:40:49.504> out<00:40:49.601> when<00:40:49.763> you<00:40:49.926> hear<00:40:50.315> that,<00:40:50.655> that<00:40:50.817> gave<00:40:51.126> you<00:40:51.304> a<00:40:51.320> chance<00:40:51.709> in<00:40:51.855> your<00:40:52.034> career<00:40:52.504> or<00:40:52.666> in<00:40:52.747> your<00:40:52.909> life?

00:40:56.137 --> 00:41:06.580
Man,<00:40:56.621> I've<00:40:57.766> been<00:40:57.928> given<00:40:58.234> some<00:40:58.412> amazing—<00:40:58.879> and<00:40:59.057> you<00:40:59.138> know<00:40:59.283> that<00:40:59.460> this<00:40:59.767> question<00:41:00.105> you<00:41:00.186> ask<00:41:00.428> is<00:41:00.589> really<00:41:00.831> kind<00:41:01.170> of<00:41:01.799> what<00:41:01.945> we<00:41:02.041> found<00:41:02.606> with<00:41:02.767> these<00:41:03.009> impact<00:41:03.477> players<00:41:03.897> is<00:41:04.461> it's<00:41:04.623> not<00:41:04.929> just<00:41:05.106> about<00:41:05.348> waiting<00:41:05.655> to<00:41:05.720> be<00:41:05.833> given<00:41:06.141> a<00:41:06.223> chance.

00:41:06.726 --> 00:41:08.365
It's<00:41:07.115> chances<00:41:07.537> that<00:41:07.764> you<00:41:07.927> take.

00:41:10.124 --> 00:41:11.566
I<00:41:10.206> had<00:41:10.370> so<00:41:10.468> many<00:41:10.714> leaders<00:41:11.025> who<00:41:11.124> gave<00:41:11.238> me<00:41:11.288> a<00:41:11.370> chance.

00:41:11.616 --> 00:41:16.551
But<00:41:12.353> can<00:41:12.501> I<00:41:12.599> tell<00:41:12.829> you,<00:41:12.927> like,<00:41:13.173> the<00:41:13.337> smallest<00:41:14.140> moment<00:41:14.863> that<00:41:15.024> I<00:41:15.104> think<00:41:15.506> addresses<00:41:15.988> this<00:41:16.213> question.

00:41:16.695 --> 00:41:21.742
And<00:41:16.872> it's<00:41:17.033> this<00:41:17.258> moment<00:41:17.740> of<00:41:20.167> redemption<00:41:21.051> and<00:41:21.292> grace.

00:41:22.240 --> 00:41:24.409
And<00:41:22.561> I<00:41:22.658> am<00:41:23.059> brand<00:41:23.510> new<00:41:23.783> at<00:41:24.008> Oracle.

00:41:24.506 --> 00:41:29.743
I've<00:41:24.666> just<00:41:26.819> come<00:41:26.979> out<00:41:27.060> of<00:41:27.140> the<00:41:27.236> state<00:41:27.461> of<00:41:27.558> Utah<00:41:27.959> where<00:41:28.104> I<00:41:28.200> got<00:41:28.361> my<00:41:28.522> bachelor's<00:41:28.923> and<00:41:29.004> my<00:41:29.100> master's<00:41:29.550> degree.

00:41:29.791 --> 00:41:32.024
I'm<00:41:29.903> coming<00:41:30.128> back<00:41:30.369> home<00:41:30.755> to<00:41:31.237> Silicon<00:41:31.654> Valley.

00:41:32.474 --> 00:41:34.115
I'm<00:41:32.618> taking<00:41:33.004> a<00:41:33.084> job<00:41:33.341> at<00:41:33.486> a<00:41:33.502> tech<00:41:33.744> company.

00:41:34.228 --> 00:41:37.877
My<00:41:34.454> background<00:41:34.874> is<00:41:35.019> in<00:41:35.503> business,<00:41:36.569> but<00:41:36.682> I'm<00:41:36.811> joining<00:41:37.134> this<00:41:37.295> tech<00:41:37.537> company.

00:41:38.571 --> 00:41:42.877
I<00:41:38.651> think<00:41:38.748> it's<00:41:38.845> important<00:41:39.216> to<00:41:39.378> understand<00:41:39.798> the<00:41:39.943> tech,<00:41:41.094> because<00:41:41.335> I've<00:41:41.431> taken<00:41:41.721> a<00:41:41.801> job,<00:41:42.218> you<00:41:42.299> know,<00:41:42.539> in<00:41:42.700> tech.

00:41:42.957 --> 00:41:44.499
And<00:41:43.423> so<00:41:43.487> I'm<00:41:43.648> kind<00:41:43.808> of<00:41:43.888> trying<00:41:44.049> to<00:41:44.145> learn<00:41:44.450> it.

00:41:44.563 --> 00:41:46.410
I'm<00:41:44.772> in<00:41:44.868> this<00:41:45.334> new<00:41:45.510> hire<00:41:45.815> training<00:41:46.072> program.

00:41:46.458 --> 00:41:47.662
It's<00:41:46.634> a<00:41:46.715> 3-week<00:41:47.196> program.

00:41:47.823 --> 00:42:02.500
And<00:41:47.983> the,<00:41:49.027> um,<00:41:49.204> one<00:41:49.300> of<00:41:49.364> the<00:41:49.926> culminating<00:41:50.569> exercises<00:41:51.147> of<00:41:51.291> this<00:41:51.452> program<00:41:51.789> is<00:41:51.918> you<00:41:52.014> have<00:41:52.174> to<00:41:52.319> use<00:41:52.961> like<00:41:53.202> Oracle's<00:41:53.620> products,<00:41:54.101> the<00:41:54.246> database<00:41:54.824> and<00:41:55.049> like<00:41:55.466> PL/SQL<00:41:55.932> and<00:41:56.028> the<00:41:56.093> apps<00:41:56.414> and<00:41:56.510> all<00:41:56.912> the<00:41:57.056> toolkit<00:41:57.795> to<00:41:58.357> build<00:41:58.614> an<00:41:58.903> app<00:41:59.160> and<00:41:59.304> then<00:41:59.481> to<00:41:59.642> demo<00:42:00.027> it<00:42:00.348> as<00:42:00.830> like<00:42:01.087> maybe<00:42:01.392> in<00:42:01.488> a<00:42:01.504> sales<00:42:01.890> situation.

00:42:02.612 --> 00:42:05.037
So<00:42:03.415> I<00:42:03.560> build<00:42:03.736> my<00:42:04.042> app,<00:42:04.282> I<00:42:04.363> work<00:42:04.539> hard<00:42:04.844> on<00:42:05.005> it.

00:42:05.085 --> 00:42:06.707
I'm<00:42:05.246> not<00:42:05.407> a<00:42:05.423> natural<00:42:05.969> technologist.

00:42:07.269 --> 00:42:09.762
I<00:42:07.414> build<00:42:07.590> this,<00:42:08.711> We're<00:42:08.889> running<00:42:09.212> on<00:42:09.439> Unix.

00:42:09.843 --> 00:42:12.350
We're<00:42:09.940> running<00:42:10.183> on<00:42:10.264> some<00:42:10.490> Unix<00:42:10.975> as<00:42:11.315> our<00:42:11.542> operating<00:42:11.897> system.

00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:27.413
And<00:42:13.418> we<00:42:13.580> now<00:42:14.874> drive<00:42:15.197> from<00:42:15.343> this<00:42:15.585> boot<00:42:15.747> camp<00:42:16.087> and<00:42:16.151> we<00:42:16.232> go<00:42:16.313> up<00:42:16.426> to<00:42:16.540> Oracle<00:42:16.733> headquarters<00:42:17.442> where,<00:42:18.973> you<00:42:19.069> know,<00:42:19.295> the<00:42:19.392> noobs,<00:42:19.940> us,<00:42:20.181> you<00:42:20.278> know,<00:42:20.439> newbies<00:42:20.826> to<00:42:20.906> the<00:42:21.003> organization<00:42:21.648> are<00:42:21.728> going<00:42:21.841> to<00:42:21.954> go<00:42:22.115> present<00:42:22.550> our<00:42:22.679> hard,<00:42:23.259> you<00:42:23.356> know,<00:42:24.693> hard<00:42:25.193> work<00:42:26.383> to<00:42:26.898> the<00:42:27.027> judges.

00:42:28.009 --> 00:42:33.641
And<00:42:28.089> one<00:42:28.250> of<00:42:28.314> the<00:42:28.411> judges<00:42:29.039> is,<00:42:32.257> you<00:42:32.289> know,<00:42:32.514> young,<00:42:32.917> maybe<00:42:33.383> 30s.

00:42:34.488 --> 00:42:39.407
Sales<00:42:35.754> engineering<00:42:36.218> manager,<00:42:36.779> his<00:42:36.971> name<00:42:37.132> is<00:42:37.276> Bob<00:42:37.516> McCormick,<00:42:38.381> and<00:42:38.558> he's<00:42:38.718> going<00:42:38.830> to<00:42:38.878> be<00:42:38.974> our<00:42:39.118> judge.

00:42:39.455 --> 00:42:47.610
Our<00:42:39.583> little<00:42:39.759> group<00:42:40.064> of<00:42:40.801> maybe,<00:42:41.506> um,<00:42:42.419> 7<00:42:42.803> or<00:42:42.948> 8<00:42:43.108> people<00:42:43.541> show<00:42:43.989> up<00:42:44.101> into<00:42:44.326> this<00:42:44.486> conference<00:42:44.951> room<00:42:45.127> and<00:42:45.207> we<00:42:45.367> each<00:42:45.752> go<00:42:45.928> through<00:42:46.633> to<00:42:46.809> present<00:42:47.194> our<00:42:47.354> demo.

00:42:48.556 --> 00:42:53.507
And<00:42:48.732> several<00:42:48.972> people<00:42:49.277> go,<00:42:50.094> and<00:42:50.238> then<00:42:50.350> it's<00:42:50.494> my<00:42:50.735> turn,<00:42:51.600> and<00:42:52.000> I<00:42:52.097> pull<00:42:52.417> up<00:42:52.577> my<00:42:52.962> application.

00:42:54.544 --> 00:42:59.851
It<00:42:54.564> was<00:42:54.724> probably<00:42:55.045> called<00:42:55.381> like<00:42:56.567> Demo<00:42:57.704> 5<00:42:58.121> or<00:42:58.185> something,<00:42:58.650> like,<00:42:58.826> you<00:42:58.906> know,<00:42:59.066> V5<00:42:59.483> or<00:42:59.611> whatever.

00:43:00.268 --> 00:43:04.002
I<00:43:00.412> go<00:43:00.508> to<00:43:00.589> present<00:43:01.005> it<00:43:01.293> and<00:43:01.854> it's<00:43:02.175> like,<00:43:02.415> doesn't<00:43:03.232> It's<00:43:03.473> messed<00:43:03.858> up.

00:43:04.050 --> 00:43:05.477
It's<00:43:04.274> not<00:43:04.579> working<00:43:04.996> right.

00:43:05.621 --> 00:43:07.785
It's<00:43:06.423> like<00:43:06.599> something's<00:43:07.080> not<00:43:07.320> going<00:43:07.625> well.

00:43:07.881 --> 00:43:15.592
And<00:43:08.106> I<00:43:08.282> am<00:43:09.148> panicking<00:43:09.949> and<00:43:10.045> I<00:43:10.206> am<00:43:10.366> crashing<00:43:10.927> and<00:43:11.087> burning<00:43:11.280> because<00:43:11.552> I<00:43:11.632> worked<00:43:11.809> really<00:43:12.033> hard<00:43:12.354> to<00:43:12.450> get<00:43:12.610> this,<00:43:12.771> like,<00:43:13.091> working<00:43:14.197> prototype<00:43:14.838> of<00:43:14.935> this<00:43:15.319> app.

00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:17.532
And<00:43:16.938> it's<00:43:17.131> just<00:43:17.259> pain.

00:43:17.596 --> 00:43:22.757
And<00:43:17.740> like,<00:43:17.900> so<00:43:18.125> you<00:43:18.221> can<00:43:18.381> imagine<00:43:18.766> the<00:43:18.862> room<00:43:19.103> is<00:43:19.247> like<00:43:19.503> really<00:43:19.888> uncomfortable<00:43:20.786> because<00:43:21.187> I<00:43:21.347> am<00:43:21.812> failing<00:43:22.309> at<00:43:22.549> this.

00:43:23.335 --> 00:43:28.080
And<00:43:24.072> I<00:43:24.216> will<00:43:24.264> never<00:43:24.553> forget<00:43:25.034> Bob,<00:43:25.996> who<00:43:26.156> like<00:43:26.461> gave<00:43:26.717> me<00:43:26.861> a<00:43:26.877> second<00:43:27.278> chance<00:43:27.695> at<00:43:27.839> this.

00:43:28.625 --> 00:43:30.324
He<00:43:28.705> said,<00:43:29.522> Liz,<00:43:29.923> you<00:43:30.003> know<00:43:30.147> what?

00:43:30.404 --> 00:43:33.450
I<00:43:30.484> think<00:43:30.805> you<00:43:31.029> might<00:43:31.350> be<00:43:31.670> in<00:43:31.767> somebody<00:43:32.151> else's<00:43:32.568> Unix<00:43:32.985> account.

00:43:33.770 --> 00:43:38.868
Like,<00:43:34.957> I<00:43:35.117> hadn't<00:43:35.598> logged<00:43:36.079> out,<00:43:36.431> or<00:43:36.511> the<00:43:36.640> person<00:43:36.896> before<00:43:37.121> me<00:43:37.281> hadn't<00:43:37.521> logged<00:43:37.842> out<00:43:37.954> of<00:43:38.018> their<00:43:38.243> Unix<00:43:38.515> account.

00:43:38.932 --> 00:43:44.222
So<00:43:39.044> I<00:43:39.124> was<00:43:39.301> pulling<00:43:39.621> up<00:43:39.717> a<00:43:39.782> file<00:43:40.263> from<00:43:40.487> their<00:43:40.663> account<00:43:41.128> that<00:43:41.224> was<00:43:41.385> one<00:43:41.545> of<00:43:41.689> like<00:43:41.946> their<00:43:42.907> kind<00:43:43.068> of<00:43:43.292> early<00:43:43.549> versions<00:43:43.965> of<00:43:44.094> this.

00:43:44.350 --> 00:43:51.115
And<00:43:44.575> I'm—<00:43:45.873> and<00:43:45.969> he<00:43:46.049> says,<00:43:46.338> I<00:43:46.418> can<00:43:46.514> think,<00:43:47.059> you<00:43:47.172> know,<00:43:47.380> you've<00:43:47.540> done<00:43:47.717> that<00:43:47.829> because<00:43:48.021> he<00:43:48.262> could<00:43:48.502> have<00:43:49.063> like<00:43:49.255> eviscerated<00:43:50.121> me<00:43:50.442> in<00:43:50.522> this<00:43:50.826> moment.

00:43:51.179 --> 00:43:58.874
It<00:43:51.243> was<00:43:51.355> like<00:43:51.628> to<00:43:51.724> teach<00:43:52.045> me<00:43:52.189> this<00:43:52.429> lesson<00:43:52.830> of<00:43:53.071> like,<00:43:53.391> you<00:43:53.487> know<00:43:53.568> what,<00:43:53.872> always<00:43:54.129> log<00:43:54.433> out<00:43:54.529> of<00:43:54.593> the<00:43:54.658> account,<00:43:55.010> always<00:43:55.251> test<00:43:55.491> things<00:43:55.651> before<00:43:56.100> you—<00:43:56.533> and<00:43:56.613> he<00:43:56.693> said,<00:43:56.918> you<00:43:56.998> know,<00:43:57.094> why<00:43:57.126> don't<00:43:57.335> you<00:43:57.415> back<00:43:57.719> out<00:43:57.816> of<00:43:57.896> that<00:43:58.361> Unix<00:43:58.681> account?

00:43:58.922 --> 00:44:01.808
Why<00:43:58.954> don't<00:43:59.082> you<00:43:59.178> go<00:43:59.258> into<00:43:59.419> your<00:43:59.579> account<00:44:00.444> and<00:44:00.525> why<00:44:00.573> don't<00:44:00.765> you<00:44:00.845> start<00:44:01.022> your<00:44:01.166> demo<00:44:01.567> over.

00:44:02.225 --> 00:44:09.411
And<00:44:02.337> like,<00:44:02.465> Clint,<00:44:02.722> I'm<00:44:02.930> getting<00:44:03.267> a<00:44:03.332> little<00:44:03.588> teary<00:44:05.112> just<00:44:05.657> telling<00:44:05.978> you<00:44:06.075> this<00:44:06.299> story<00:44:06.636> because<00:44:07.903> I<00:44:07.999> was<00:44:08.320> blown<00:44:08.705> away<00:44:09.026> by<00:44:09.203> this.

00:44:09.523 --> 00:44:19.693
Because<00:44:09.828> he<00:44:09.989> could<00:44:10.149> have<00:44:10.309> tortured<00:44:10.791> me,<00:44:11.529> could<00:44:11.673> have<00:44:11.753> made<00:44:11.994> me<00:44:12.154> look<00:44:12.250> like<00:44:12.475> a<00:44:12.571> fool,<00:44:13.694> but<00:44:13.854> he<00:44:14.015> just<00:44:14.256> gave<00:44:14.576> me<00:44:14.721> this<00:44:14.977> chance<00:44:15.459> and<00:44:15.539> kind<00:44:15.747> of<00:44:15.779> like<00:44:15.956> a<00:44:16.020> fresh<00:44:16.196> start<00:44:17.384> to<00:44:17.544> do<00:44:17.704> something<00:44:18.330> and<00:44:18.731> to<00:44:18.811> have<00:44:19.004> a<00:44:19.052> success.

00:44:20.014 --> 00:44:23.383
And,<00:44:21.217> um,<00:44:21.859> I,<00:44:22.116> I've<00:44:22.292> never<00:44:22.597> forgotten<00:44:23.142> that.

00:44:23.624 --> 00:44:32.029
And<00:44:24.041> I<00:44:24.201> think<00:44:24.377> it's<00:44:24.602> these<00:44:24.843> like<00:44:25.741> small<00:44:26.351> acts<00:44:26.687> of<00:44:26.848> giving<00:44:27.233> people<00:44:27.634> chances,<00:44:28.275> giving<00:44:28.532> people<00:44:28.837> chances<00:44:29.334> to<00:44:29.495> redeem<00:44:30.040> themselves,<00:44:30.698> to<00:44:30.778> recover<00:44:31.259> from<00:44:31.420> mistakes.

00:44:33.012 --> 00:44:33.980
That<00:44:33.173> have<00:44:33.351> been<00:44:33.496> powerful.

00:44:34.060 --> 00:44:40.383
And<00:44:34.222> I've<00:44:34.383> had<00:44:34.496> a<00:44:34.560> bunch<00:44:34.819> of<00:44:34.883> people<00:44:35.190> who've<00:44:35.431> given<00:44:35.690> me<00:44:35.851> chances<00:44:36.496> to,<00:44:36.657> like,<00:44:37.770> fix<00:44:38.093> it<00:44:38.254> and<00:44:38.351> make<00:44:38.609> it<00:44:38.754> right<00:44:39.383> and<00:44:39.883> do<00:44:40.028> a<00:44:40.109> good<00:44:40.206> job.

00:44:40.448 --> 00:44:42.012
But<00:44:40.609> that<00:44:40.754> was<00:44:40.915> one<00:44:41.173> early<00:44:41.480> in<00:44:41.512> my<00:44:41.657> career.

00:44:43.479 --> 00:44:44.333
It<00:44:43.608> set<00:44:43.721> a<00:44:43.785> tone<00:44:44.027> for<00:44:44.172> me.

00:44:44.655 --> 00:44:46.267
That's<00:44:45.654> incredible.

00:44:46.428 --> 00:44:47.620
Liz,<00:44:46.847> thank<00:44:47.088> you<00:44:47.169> so<00:44:47.572> much.

00:44:47.733 --> 00:44:48.377
Bob<00:44:47.910> McCormick.

00:44:48.603 --> 00:44:50.085
Yeah,<00:44:49.183> Bob<00:44:49.425> McCormick.

00:44:50.295 --> 00:44:50.424
Wow.

00:44:51.503 --> 00:44:53.001
He's<00:44:51.632> still<00:44:51.842> around,<00:44:52.309> likely,<00:44:52.727> right?

00:44:54.273 --> 00:44:54.852
Still<00:44:54.643> around.

00:44:54.901 --> 00:44:59.462
He's<00:44:55.046> probably<00:44:55.303> retired,<00:44:56.173> um,<00:44:57.300> uh,<00:44:57.863> to<00:44:57.960> some<00:44:58.787> to<00:44:58.884> some<00:44:59.044> extent.

00:44:59.590 --> 00:45:06.960
But<00:45:00.313> yeah,<00:45:00.891> I've<00:45:00.987> never<00:45:01.694> forgotten<00:45:02.159> that<00:45:02.577> little<00:45:02.914> moment<00:45:03.363> of<00:45:03.620> grace<00:45:04.407> and<00:45:04.889> a<00:45:05.226> little<00:45:05.387> moment<00:45:05.643> of<00:45:05.788> teaching<00:45:06.430> and<00:45:06.575> kindness.

00:45:07.153 --> 00:45:08.614
That's<00:45:08.100> incredible.

00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:10.733
Liz,<00:45:09.385> thank<00:45:09.561> you<00:45:09.642> so<00:45:09.818> much<00:45:10.107> for<00:45:10.204> coming<00:45:10.525> on.

00:45:10.830 --> 00:45:11.777
I<00:45:10.910> really<00:45:11.167> appreciate<00:45:11.729> it.

00:45:12.034 --> 00:45:12.500
As<00:45:12.195> always.

00:45:13.961 --> 00:45:14.812
It's<00:45:14.378> my<00:45:14.539> pleasure.