Heather Conklin thinks your AI problem is a leadership problem

When Cameron Yarbrough hired Heather Conklin as Torch's first chief operating officer in 2022, it was part of a succession plan. Two years later, she was CEO. Torch announced the promotion in August 2024, with Yarbrough, the co-founder, moving to executive chair. "I was hopeful that Heather could be our next CEO when I hired her," he said.

Torch is a leadership coaching platform. It sells companies on the idea that leaders can be developed deliberately rather than discovered by accident. Its own succession was deliberate.

Conklin came from Salesforce, where she spent nine years and ran Trailhead, the company's learning platform, as senior vice president and general manager. Before that, she created Salesforce's Associate Product Manager program, a job she got by pitching Bret Taylor, then chief product officer, on how the product organization could work differently. "I had never run a program like that before. I didn't have a blueprint. But he trusted me to build it," she said on the CEO.com Podcast. "If Bret hadn't taken that chance on me, I wouldn't be sitting here today as the CEO of a coaching company."

Ask her what leadership is, and she starts by throwing out the org chart. "Leadership is not a title," she said. "It's about how you show up for other people. It's about motivating people, helping them move toward a common goal, and bringing them somewhere new together." Torch coaches at every level of its client organizations for that reason, not just the executive floor.

The definition has teeth. Conklin holds that great leaders care as much about how results get achieved as about the results, and she is willing to name names. Steve Jobs built world-changing products and was known for treating people badly. "You can be the best performer in the world, but if you treat people terribly, that doesn't work for me. On the other hand, you can be incredibly empathetic and supportive, but if you never produce results, that doesn't work either. The best leaders are able to hold both of those truths at the same time."

Right now, she argues, AI is testing whether companies have any such leaders. MIT's NANDA initiative reported that 95 percent of enterprise generative AI pilots deliver no measurable return. Conklin reads the failures as a leadership problem wearing a technology costume, a case she has also made in Fortune. "AI is exposing a lot of cracks that already existed," she told the CEO.com Podcast. "Many leadership weaknesses were there long before AI arrived. AI is simply shining a brighter light on them."

The weaknesses compound because leadership is mostly inherited, not taught. "Most people learn leadership from whoever happens to be around them," she said. "If someone had a poor manager, they often end up replicating those behaviors without realizing it. Bad leadership habits get passed down." Companies spent the pandemic investing in employee well-being, then swung hard toward productivity, efficiency, and return-to-office mandates when the economy tightened. What got lost in the swing, in her telling, were the abilities that determine whether people follow a leader anywhere: communication, empathy, adaptability, resilience. "People often call these 'soft skills,' and I hate that term because there's nothing soft about them. I prefer to think of them as human skills."

Torch is betting it can build those skills with machines as well as people. The company acquired Praxis Labs in July 2025, an AI learning company founded by Elise Smith and Heather Shen that had worked with companies including eBay, Zoom, Amazon, Google, and Target. Torch has since folded that technology into a product that runs alongside its network of more than 350 human coaches, most of them credentialed and many with years of operating experience.

Conklin's case for coaching is personal before it is commercial. Early in her career, she assumed delivering results made her a good leader. "Coaching helped me realize I hadn't spent much time understanding myself. My values, my strengths, my blind spots, and how I wanted to show up in the world. Once I did that work, everything changed." She became better, she said, at seeing other people and helping them succeed.

She now runs Torch remotely from the Boston area while raising three young daughters, keeping her mornings clear for thinking and reading customer stories in a Slack channel where feedback posts automatically. The company that told her she could run it someday was right.

00:00:00 Introduction and Overview of Torch
00:01:02 Integrating AI into Leadership Coaching
00:02:31 Defining Leadership
00:04:28 Common Traits of Effective Leaders
00:06:17 The Role of AI in Modern Leadership
00:07:07 The Necessity of Leadership in the AI Era
00:10:04 Challenges in Developing Great Leaders
00:12:12 Personal Leadership and Self-Management
00:14:20 A Day in the Life of Heather
00:16:33 Building and Growing a Coaching Business
00:20:00 Becoming a Coach at Torch
00:21:51 Reading Recommendations
00:23:49 The Importance of Giving and Taking Chances
00:25:37 Conclusion and Gratitude

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Um<00:03:27.080> and<00:03:27.200> it<00:03:27.320> really<00:03:27.600> is,<00:03:28.000> I<00:03:28.120> think,<00:03:28.360> about<00:03:29.320> um<00:03:29.640> again,<00:03:29.920> the<00:03:30.000> way<00:03:30.120> that<00:03:30.280> you<00:03:30.560> are<00:03:30.720> showing<00:03:31.040> up<00:03:31.200> for<00:03:31.320> other<00:03:31.480> people,<00:03:31.840> how<00:03:32.000> are<00:03:32.120> you<00:03:32.320> connecting<00:03:32.920> with<00:03:33.080> them,<00:03:33.440> how<00:03:33.600> are<00:03:33.720> you

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listening<00:03:34.320> to<00:03:34.440> them,<00:03:34.840> how<00:03:35.000> are<00:03:35.200> you<00:03:35.840> understanding<00:03:36.640> them<00:03:37.360> in<00:03:37.519> order<00:03:37.920> to<00:03:38.880> help<00:03:39.400> them<00:03:39.760> to<00:03:40.280> to<00:03:40.400> see<00:03:40.640> themselves<00:03:41.200> in<00:03:41.400> wherever,<00:03:42.200> you

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know,<00:03:42.600> wherever<00:03:42.920> you're<00:03:43.320> you're<00:03:43.519> ultimately<00:03:44.040> trying<00:03:44.360> to<00:03:44.480> go.

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And<00:03:44.840> that<00:03:45.000> could<00:03:45.160> be<00:03:45.400> as<00:03:45.600> a<00:03:45.640> business,<00:03:46.080> that<00:03:46.239> could<00:03:46.360> be<00:03:47.239> a<00:03:47.320> sports<00:03:47.680> team,<00:03:47.920> you<00:03:48.000> know,<00:03:48.080> it<00:03:48.160> could<00:03:48.239> be<00:03:48.360> anywhere.

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Um<00:03:49.560> but<00:03:49.800> it<00:03:49.880> really<00:03:50.080> is<00:03:50.239> about<00:03:51.120> like<00:03:51.320> understanding<00:03:51.840> and<00:03:52.000> motivating<00:03:52.520> people<00:03:52.880> toward<00:03:53.120> a<00:03:53.160> common<00:03:53.520> goal.

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What<00:03:55.000> do<00:03:55.080> you<00:03:55.200> think<00:03:55.440> are<00:03:55.560> like<00:03:55.800> some<00:03:56.000> common<00:03:56.760> traits?

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Cuz<00:03:57.720> cuz<00:03:57.960> everybody<00:03:58.280> leads<00:03:58.600> differently,<00:03:59.160> everybody<00:03:59.520> runs<00:03:59.760> companies<00:04:00.200> differently,<00:04:00.840> everybody<00:04:02.040> you<00:04:02.120> know,<00:04:02.320> even<00:04:02.720> even<00:04:03.000> thinking<00:04:03.360> of<00:04:03.520> like<00:04:04.000> uh<00:04:04.080> sports,<00:04:04.520> there's

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really<00:04:04.960> vocal<00:04:05.960> leaders<00:04:06.440> on<00:04:06.560> sports<00:04:06.920> teams,<00:04:07.240> and<00:04:07.320> then<00:04:07.480> there's<00:04:07.640> really<00:04:07.880> quiet<00:04:09.200> by<00:04:09.400> example<00:04:10.200> leaders<00:04:10.560> of<00:04:10.640> sports<00:04:11.000> teams,<00:04:11.240> and<00:04:11.360> both<00:04:12.120> ways<00:04:12.600> seem<00:04:12.840> to

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work.<00:04:13.760> Mhm.<00:04:14.000> In<00:04:14.120> business,<00:04:14.520> you<00:04:14.600> had<00:04:14.760> like<00:04:14.920> the<00:04:15.040> Steve<00:04:15.360> Jobs<00:04:16.160> way<00:04:16.440> of<00:04:16.560> doing<00:04:16.840> things,<00:04:17.200> and<00:04:17.280> then<00:04:17.400> you<00:04:17.480> have<00:04:17.720> maybe<00:04:18.000> more<00:04:18.840> uh<00:04:19.359> empathetic<00:04:20.320> leaders,<00:04:21.040> you

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know,<00:04:21.359> like<00:04:21.920> who<00:04:22.080> do<00:04:22.200> you<00:04:22.280> think<00:04:22.560> so<00:04:22.840> but<00:04:23.120> what<00:04:23.240> are<00:04:23.360> the<00:04:23.480> commonalities<00:04:25.000> between<00:04:25.360> leaders<00:04:25.800> in<00:04:25.880> your<00:04:26.000> experience?

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Well,<00:04:28.800> I<00:04:29.160> I<00:04:29.240> think<00:04:30.560> so<00:04:31.320> I<00:04:31.440> really<00:04:31.680> believe<00:04:32.240> that<00:04:32.400> leaders<00:04:33.320> um<00:04:33.800> need<00:04:34.040> to<00:04:34.160> care<00:04:34.800> just<00:04:35.040> as<00:04:35.160> much<00:04:35.360> about<00:04:35.840> what<00:04:36.080> people

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are<00:04:36.520> doing<00:04:36.919> and<00:04:37.120> how<00:04:37.280> they<00:04:37.440> are<00:04:37.560> doing<00:04:37.840> it.<00:04:38.000> So,<00:04:38.120> you<00:04:38.200> gave<00:04:38.400> a<00:04:38.440> great<00:04:38.640> example<00:04:38.960> in<00:04:39.080> Steve<00:04:39.360> Jobs,<00:04:39.720> right?

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Like<00:04:40.600> amazing<00:04:41.080> at<00:04:41.200> delivering<00:04:41.600> results,<00:04:41.960> building,<00:04:42.560> you<00:04:42.640> know,<00:04:42.800> like<00:04:43.200> world-changing<00:04:43.919> products<00:04:44.400> and<00:04:44.560> stuff,<00:04:44.919> but<00:04:45.200> he's<00:04:45.480> also<00:04:45.800> known<00:04:46.280> for<00:04:46.720> not<00:04:47.000> actually<00:04:47.600> treating

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people,<00:04:48.520> you<00:04:48.680> know,<00:04:48.960> always<00:04:49.440> that<00:04:49.680> great<00:04:50.120> um<00:04:50.440> on<00:04:50.560> the<00:04:50.640> day-to-day<00:04:51.200> level.

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Um<00:04:52.640> and<00:04:52.760> so,<00:04:53.120> one<00:04:53.320> of<00:04:53.400> my<00:04:53.600> big<00:04:53.800> philosophies<00:04:54.400> about<00:04:54.600> leadership<00:04:55.040> is<00:04:55.200> that<00:04:55.800> I<00:04:55.960> care<00:04:56.240> just<00:04:56.480> as<00:04:56.600> much<00:04:56.800> about<00:04:57.080> what<00:04:57.280> you<00:04:57.400> do<00:04:57.720> and<00:04:57.880> how<00:04:58.080> you<00:04:58.280> do<00:04:58.440> it,<00:04:58.640> meaning<00:04:59.480> you<00:04:59.640> have<00:04:59.960> to<00:05:00.080> hold

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a<00:05:00.320> bar<00:05:00.720> for<00:05:00.919> performance<00:05:01.760> and<00:05:02.080> output<00:05:02.560> and<00:05:02.680> results.

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Like<00:05:03.560> that's,<00:05:04.040> you<00:05:04.120> know,<00:05:04.600> obviously<00:05:04.960> a<00:05:05.040> huge<00:05:05.440> part<00:05:05.680> of<00:05:05.960> of<00:05:06.080> what<00:05:06.200> it<00:05:06.280> means<00:05:06.640> to<00:05:06.760> lead<00:05:07.160> a<00:05:07.240> business,<00:05:07.760> especially<00:05:08.320> or<00:05:08.480> or<00:05:08.840> a<00:05:08.919> sports<00:05:09.320> team,<00:05:09.640> is<00:05:09.760> like<00:05:09.880> you<00:05:09.960> have<00:05:10.200> to<00:05:10.800> you

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have<00:05:11.080> to<00:05:11.200> win,<00:05:11.440> you<00:05:11.560> have<00:05:11.800> to<00:05:12.200> bring<00:05:12.400> in<00:05:12.520> money.

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Uh<00:05:13.560> and<00:05:13.680> so,<00:05:14.120> the<00:05:14.240> results<00:05:14.760> are<00:05:14.919> really<00:05:15.160> important,<00:05:15.640> but<00:05:15.760> they're<00:05:15.880> not<00:05:16.040> the<00:05:16.160> only<00:05:16.440> thing.

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And<00:05:17.880> and<00:05:18.040> so,<00:05:18.520> you<00:05:19.120> you<00:05:19.280> have<00:05:19.480> to<00:05:19.600> deliver<00:05:19.960> results<00:05:20.600> and<00:05:20.840> and<00:05:21.040> hold<00:05:21.240> that<00:05:21.440> bar<00:05:21.720> for<00:05:21.880> performance<00:05:22.520> while<00:05:22.760> also<00:05:23.320> caring<00:05:23.840> about<00:05:24.160> the<00:05:24.280> people<00:05:24.640> on<00:05:24.840> the<00:05:24.960> team<00:05:25.720> and

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demonstrating<00:05:26.600> to<00:05:26.720> them<00:05:27.280> that<00:05:27.440> you<00:05:27.600> do<00:05:27.960> care<00:05:28.240> about<00:05:28.560> them<00:05:29.200> um<00:05:29.520> and<00:05:29.880> and<00:05:30.000> that<00:05:30.160> you<00:05:30.680> are<00:05:30.960> there<00:05:31.280> to<00:05:31.640> help<00:05:32.080> grow<00:05:32.320> them<00:05:32.560> and<00:05:32.680> support<00:05:33.080> them<00:05:33.360> and<00:05:33.520> and<00:05:33.680> whatnot.

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And<00:05:34.240> so,<00:05:34.880> I<00:05:34.919> always<00:05:35.080> say<00:05:35.200> like<00:05:35.400> you<00:05:35.440> could<00:05:35.560> be<00:05:35.680> the<00:05:35.800> best<00:05:36.120> at<00:05:36.200> your<00:05:36.360> job<00:05:36.680> in<00:05:36.760> the<00:05:36.840> whole<00:05:37.080> world,<00:05:37.480> but<00:05:37.600> if<00:05:37.720> you<00:05:37.800> treat<00:05:38.040> people<00:05:38.320> badly,<00:05:38.800> then<00:05:39.160> that,<00:05:39.560> you<00:05:39.640> know,<00:05:39.760> that<00:05:39.880> doesn't

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work<00:05:40.280> for<00:05:40.400> me.<00:05:40.919> Um<00:05:41.080> and<00:05:41.200> vice<00:05:41.480> versa,<00:05:41.800> you<00:05:41.919> could<00:05:42.080> be<00:05:42.200> the<00:05:42.320> most<00:05:42.680> empathetic<00:05:43.240> leader<00:05:43.480> in<00:05:43.600> the<00:05:43.680> world<00:05:44.040> and,<00:05:44.640> you<00:05:44.720> know,<00:05:44.840> do<00:05:45.040> everything<00:05:45.480> right<00:05:45.760> by<00:05:45.919> your<00:05:46.040> people,<00:05:46.480> but<00:05:46.600> if

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you're<00:05:46.800> not<00:05:47.000> delivering<00:05:47.440> results,<00:05:47.960> then<00:05:48.200> that<00:05:48.400> also<00:05:48.680> isn't<00:05:48.920> going<00:05:49.040> to<00:05:49.120> work.

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And<00:05:49.560> so,<00:05:50.400> I<00:05:50.520> think<00:05:50.720> the<00:05:50.840> best<00:05:51.280> leaders,<00:05:52.080> you<00:05:52.160> know,<00:05:52.320> are<00:05:52.480> able<00:05:52.760> to<00:05:52.880> hold<00:05:53.360> both<00:05:53.600> of<00:05:53.720> those<00:05:54.400> what<00:05:54.680> seem<00:05:55.120> like<00:05:55.360> contradictory<00:05:56.360> things<00:05:56.800> at<00:05:56.920> times,<00:05:57.760> um

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hold<00:05:58.000> them<00:05:58.120> both<00:05:58.440> as<00:05:58.600> true<00:05:59.000> and<00:05:59.680> and<00:05:59.840> really<00:06:00.720> figure<00:06:01.080> out<00:06:01.480> how<00:06:01.840> to<00:06:02.560> just<00:06:02.800> navigate<00:06:03.560> the<00:06:03.880> the<00:06:04.000> nuances<00:06:04.640> in<00:06:04.720> the<00:06:04.800> gray<00:06:05.160> area<00:06:06.040> and,

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you<00:06:06.520> know,<00:06:06.720> like<00:06:07.000> all<00:06:07.240> of<00:06:07.320> the<00:06:07.880> the<00:06:07.960> challenging<00:06:08.600> things<00:06:08.880> that<00:06:09.000> can<00:06:09.160> come<00:06:09.320> up<00:06:09.520> when<00:06:09.680> you<00:06:09.880> are<00:06:10.600> balancing<00:06:11.120> those<00:06:11.320> two<00:06:11.480> tensions.

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Um<00:06:12.960> and<00:06:13.160> and<00:06:13.320> again,<00:06:13.560> that's<00:06:13.760> what<00:06:13.880> I<00:06:13.920> think<00:06:14.120> the<00:06:14.200> best<00:06:14.480> leaders<00:06:14.800> are<00:06:15.120> are<00:06:15.160> doing<00:06:15.480> really,<00:06:15.680> really<00:06:15.880> well.

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Don't<00:06:17.280> you<00:06:17.400> think<00:06:17.800> AI<00:06:18.520> is<00:06:20.240> one<00:06:20.600> changing<00:06:21.000> leadership,<00:06:21.480> which<00:06:21.600> you<00:06:21.680> talk<00:06:21.919> touched<00:06:22.200> on<00:06:22.280> a<00:06:22.320> little<00:06:22.520> bit,<00:06:22.680> and<00:06:22.800> I<00:06:22.960> I<00:06:23.040> want<00:06:23.200> to<00:06:23.280> go<00:06:23.360> a<00:06:23.400> little<00:06:23.560> bit<00:06:23.720> deeper<00:06:23.960> on<00:06:24.080> that,<00:06:24.360> too,

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but<00:06:25.560> two,<00:06:26.400> it<00:06:26.640> is<00:06:27.480> uh<00:06:27.560> more<00:06:27.800> necessary<00:06:28.400> now<00:06:29.000> than<00:06:29.560> maybe<00:06:30.000> ever<00:06:30.240> before,<00:06:31.680> given<00:06:32.240> that<00:06:32.760> AI

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uh<00:06:34.320> is<00:06:34.560> causing<00:06:35.040> so<00:06:35.200> much<00:06:35.600> angst,<00:06:36.040> so<00:06:36.240> much<00:06:36.480> disruption,<00:06:37.200> so<00:06:37.400> much<00:06:37.640> anxiety.

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So<00:06:38.960> many<00:06:39.200> people,<00:06:39.680> I<00:06:39.760> mean,<00:06:39.919> millions<00:06:40.280> and<00:06:40.400> millions<00:06:40.760> of<00:06:40.840> people<00:06:41.120> are<00:06:41.240> wondering,<00:06:41.720> "Will<00:06:41.919> I<00:06:42.000> have<00:06:42.160> a<00:06:42.240> job<00:06:42.560> in<00:06:42.680> 6<00:06:42.919> months?"

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right?<00:06:43.840> Like,<00:06:44.040> this<00:06:44.280> is<00:06:44.400> a<00:06:44.520> real<00:06:45.760> uh<00:06:45.880> time<00:06:46.320> you<00:06:46.440> would<00:06:46.640> you<00:06:46.760> would<00:06:46.919> expect<00:06:47.480> for<00:06:47.640> great<00:06:48.080> leaders,<00:06:49.000> and<00:06:49.200> we'll<00:06:49.360> see<00:06:49.960> how<00:06:50.280> the<00:06:50.840> the<00:06:50.960> great<00:06:51.240> leaders<00:06:51.560> in

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our<00:06:51.840> society<00:06:52.560> and<00:06:52.680> in<00:06:52.880> business<00:06:53.440> and<00:06:53.640> politics<00:06:54.200> and<00:06:54.720> everywhere<00:06:55.200> else<00:06:55.440> show<00:06:55.680> up<00:06:55.840> to<00:06:55.960> this<00:06:56.360> and<00:06:56.520> whether<00:06:56.960> they<00:06:57.160> can<00:06:57.320> meet<00:06:57.520> the<00:06:57.600> moment<00:06:57.919> or<00:06:58.000> not.

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But,<00:06:59.280> how<00:06:59.400> do<00:06:59.520> you<00:06:59.720> think<00:07:00.080> it's<00:07:00.600> like<00:07:02.080> how<00:07:02.200> do<00:07:02.320> you<00:07:02.400> think<00:07:02.680> AI<00:07:03.120> is<00:07:03.360> playing<00:07:03.600> a<00:07:03.680> role<00:07:04.120> in<00:07:04.320> the<00:07:04.400> necessity<00:07:05.080> of<00:07:05.200> leadership<00:07:05.680> is<00:07:05.760> maybe<00:07:06.000> the<00:07:06.400> maybe<00:07:06.640> the<00:07:06.720> question<00:07:07.120> there?

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Yeah.<00:07:08.480> I<00:07:08.520> mean,<00:07:08.600> I<00:07:08.640> think<00:07:09.160> all<00:07:09.360> the<00:07:09.440> things<00:07:09.680> you<00:07:09.760> said<00:07:09.919> are<00:07:10.000> exactly<00:07:10.440> right.

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It<00:07:11.000> is<00:07:11.200> more<00:07:11.600> critical<00:07:12.240> now<00:07:12.600> than<00:07:12.800> ever<00:07:13.200> to<00:07:13.400> have<00:07:13.919> great<00:07:14.200> leaders,<00:07:14.680> and<00:07:15.560> I'm<00:07:16.200> I'm<00:07:16.360> happy<00:07:16.600> to<00:07:16.720> see<00:07:16.880> that<00:07:17.080> there's<00:07:17.640> actually<00:07:17.960> a<00:07:18.000> lot<00:07:18.160> of<00:07:18.240> places<00:07:18.600> where<00:07:18.720> I'm<00:07:18.840> seeing<00:07:19.160> that

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coming<00:07:19.880> out<00:07:20.160> and<00:07:20.360> and<00:07:20.560> being<00:07:21.480> um<00:07:21.800> noticed<00:07:22.360> and<00:07:22.560> and<00:07:22.720> noted.

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Like,<00:07:23.800> The<00:07:23.919> Wall<00:07:24.080> Street<00:07:24.320> Journal<00:07:24.640> has<00:07:24.720> been<00:07:24.840> a<00:07:24.919> big<00:07:25.080> proponent<00:07:25.640> of<00:07:25.800> this.

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Like,<00:07:27.040> um<00:07:27.560> you<00:07:27.680> know,<00:07:27.800> the<00:07:27.919> MIT<00:07:28.480> study<00:07:28.840> that<00:07:29.040> came<00:07:29.280> out<00:07:29.400> about<00:07:29.680> our<00:07:29.760> 95%<00:07:30.640> of<00:07:30.720> pilots<00:07:31.160> are<00:07:31.280> failing.

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When<00:07:32.400> they<00:07:32.480> looked<00:07:32.680> at<00:07:32.760> the<00:07:32.880> 5%,<00:07:33.800> what<00:07:34.080> is<00:07:34.200> going<00:07:34.440> on<00:07:34.560> there?

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Great<00:07:35.360> leadership,<00:07:35.880> you<00:07:35.960> know.<00:07:36.840> Um<00:07:37.240> and<00:07:37.400> so,<00:07:37.680> I<00:07:37.760> think<00:07:38.040> that<00:07:38.640> there<00:07:38.840> is<00:07:39.120> kind<00:07:39.320> of<00:07:39.440> a<00:07:40.040> a<00:07:40.120> growing<00:07:40.680> awareness<00:07:41.360> that<00:07:41.840> that<00:07:42.000> leadership<00:07:42.520> is<00:07:42.720> going<00:07:43.040> to<00:07:43.160> be

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very<00:07:43.560> very<00:07:43.800> critical<00:07:44.280> of<00:07:44.400> getting<00:07:44.680> us<00:07:44.800> through<00:07:45.000> this<00:07:45.200> time.

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But<00:07:46.320> I<00:07:46.360> think<00:07:46.560> on<00:07:46.680> the<00:07:46.800> other<00:07:47.000> hand,<00:07:47.800> AI<00:07:48.240> is<00:07:48.320> sort<00:07:48.520> of<00:07:48.640> exposing<00:07:49.240> a<00:07:49.280> lot<00:07:49.480> of<00:07:49.600> cracks<00:07:50.080> and<00:07:50.200> a<00:07:50.240> lot<00:07:50.400> of<00:07:50.520> holes<00:07:50.840> that<00:07:51.000> we<00:07:51.120> had<00:07:51.400> in<00:07:51.480> leadership<00:07:51.960> behaviors<00:07:52.640> long<00:07:52.960> before<00:07:53.600> AI<00:07:53.880> ever

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came<00:07:54.680> onto<00:07:54.920> the<00:07:55.000> scene.<00:07:56.160> Um<00:07:56.280> and<00:07:56.560> so<00:07:56.920> I<00:07:57.040> think<00:07:57.280> it's<00:07:57.440> like<00:07:58.160> the<00:07:58.720> it's<00:07:58.960> unfortunate<00:07:59.720> that<00:08:00.040> I<00:08:00.120> don't<00:08:00.320> know<00:08:00.440> that<00:08:00.600> we're<00:08:00.720> starting<00:08:01.200> from<00:08:01.400> the<00:08:01.520> best<00:08:02.280> foundation<00:08:03.080> of

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great<00:08:03.560> leadership<00:08:04.040> behaviors<00:08:05.080> and<00:08:05.480> and<00:08:05.880> AI<00:08:06.320> is<00:08:06.640> really<00:08:06.960> like<00:08:07.600> exposing<00:08:08.200> a<00:08:08.240> lot<00:08:08.480> of<00:08:08.600> the<00:08:08.880> the<00:08:09.000> cracks<00:08:09.440> that<00:08:09.640> we<00:08:09.760> have<00:08:10.040> had.

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Um<00:08:10.920> so,<00:08:11.680> you<00:08:11.760> know,<00:08:11.840> like<00:08:12.160> that<00:08:12.520> that<00:08:12.680> tension<00:08:13.000> I<00:08:13.040> just<00:08:13.200> talked<00:08:13.400> about<00:08:13.640> uh<00:08:13.880> results<00:08:14.320> in<00:08:14.480> people.

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Um<00:08:15.680> you<00:08:15.760> know,<00:08:15.880> we've<00:08:16.080> seen<00:08:16.800> that<00:08:17.080> pendulum<00:08:17.640> swing<00:08:18.000> in<00:08:18.240> in<00:08:18.360> lots<00:08:18.600> of<00:08:18.720> ways<00:08:19.000> over<00:08:19.200> the<00:08:19.360> years.

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Um<00:08:20.440> but<00:08:21.080> I<00:08:21.120> think<00:08:21.360> now<00:08:21.800> more<00:08:22.000> than<00:08:22.160> ever<00:08:22.440> it's<00:08:22.600> like,<00:08:22.919> yes,<00:08:23.200> like<00:08:23.440> AI<00:08:23.680> can<00:08:23.919> get<00:08:24.160> you<00:08:24.880> tons<00:08:25.240> of<00:08:25.480> productivity<00:08:26.160> and<00:08:26.280> efficiency<00:08:27.040> and<00:08:27.320> you<00:08:27.400> know,<00:08:27.640> those<00:08:27.880> kinds<00:08:28.120> of<00:08:28.240> results,

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but<00:08:28.919> if<00:08:29.040> you<00:08:29.200> can't<00:08:29.520> motivate<00:08:30.200> the<00:08:30.320> people<00:08:30.720> on<00:08:30.840> the<00:08:30.919> team<00:08:31.320> and<00:08:32.000> help<00:08:32.240> them<00:08:32.479> come<00:08:32.680> along<00:08:32.919> on<00:08:33.039> that<00:08:33.280> journey,<00:08:33.680> then<00:08:34.400> you're<00:08:34.599> going<00:08:34.960> to<00:08:35.080> miss<00:08:35.440> out<00:08:35.680> on<00:08:35.800> the<00:08:35.919> results<00:08:36.440> that

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you<00:08:36.760> could<00:08:36.960> otherwise<00:08:37.520> have.<00:08:38.080> And<00:08:38.280> so,<00:08:39.200> you<00:08:39.440> know,<00:08:40.320> I<00:08:40.520> talk<00:08:40.760> a<00:08:40.800> lot<00:08:40.960> about<00:08:41.479> soft<00:08:41.880> skills<00:08:42.400> and<00:08:42.520> I<00:08:42.760> I<00:08:42.880> hate<00:08:43.120> that<00:08:43.280> term<00:08:43.599> cuz<00:08:43.760> there's<00:08:44.160> I<00:08:44.200> don't<00:08:44.400> think<00:08:44.520> anything's<00:08:45.000> soft

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about<00:08:45.680> them.<00:08:46.200> And<00:08:46.400> and<00:08:46.640> I<00:08:46.680> think<00:08:46.960> now<00:08:47.280> people<00:08:47.600> are<00:08:47.800> having<00:08:48.080> this<00:08:48.280> growing<00:08:48.839> awareness<00:08:49.440> that,<00:08:49.720> oh<00:08:49.880> wait,<00:08:50.120> those<00:08:50.360> are<00:08:50.520> actually<00:08:51.680> incredibly<00:08:52.440> critical<00:08:52.920> skills.

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Um<00:08:54.000> you<00:08:54.080> know,<00:08:54.160> I<00:08:54.240> sometimes<00:08:54.640> I<00:08:54.680> call<00:08:54.880> them<00:08:55.080> human<00:08:55.480> skills<00:08:56.160> or<00:08:56.880> I've<00:08:56.960> seen<00:08:57.120> them<00:08:57.440> called<00:08:57.720> like<00:08:57.920> first<00:08:58.240> order<00:08:58.520> skills,<00:08:59.200> but<00:08:59.839> the<00:09:00.000> way<00:09:00.400> that<00:09:00.680> you<00:09:00.960> are<00:09:01.240> communicating<00:09:02.040> with

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people<00:09:02.800> and<00:09:02.920> again<00:09:03.200> like<00:09:03.400> connecting<00:09:03.960> with<00:09:04.160> them<00:09:04.680> and<00:09:05.240> helping<00:09:05.680> to<00:09:06.280> like<00:09:06.440> foster<00:09:06.880> the<00:09:07.000> right<00:09:07.280> kind<00:09:07.560> of<00:09:07.960> team<00:09:08.240> dynamics<00:09:08.880> and<00:09:09.000> conversations<00:09:10.040> and<00:09:10.200> big

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picture<00:09:10.720> thinking.<00:09:11.240> Like<00:09:11.400> these<00:09:11.600> are<00:09:11.720> all<00:09:12.400> things<00:09:12.680> that<00:09:13.080> in<00:09:13.200> our<00:09:13.360> world<00:09:13.560> at<00:09:13.680> Torch<00:09:13.920> we<00:09:14.000> call<00:09:14.160> them<00:09:14.640> leadership<00:09:15.160> capacities,<00:09:16.040> but<00:09:16.160> it's<00:09:16.320> like<00:09:16.920> I<00:09:17.000> can't<00:09:17.320> teach<00:09:17.560> you<00:09:17.640> the

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skills<00:09:18.280> fast<00:09:18.640> enough<00:09:18.920> on<00:09:19.080> how<00:09:19.440> to<00:09:19.640> lead<00:09:19.920> teams<00:09:20.280> through<00:09:20.520> AI<00:09:20.839> cuz<00:09:21.040> nobody<00:09:21.280> knows<00:09:21.560> how<00:09:21.680> to<00:09:21.800> do<00:09:22.000> that.

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And<00:09:22.440> so,<00:09:23.040> we<00:09:23.160> actually<00:09:23.560> need<00:09:23.720> to<00:09:23.760> help<00:09:24.000> leaders<00:09:24.360> develop<00:09:24.800> deeper<00:09:25.120> capacities<00:09:25.880> in<00:09:25.960> themselves<00:09:26.600> to<00:09:27.440> be<00:09:27.600> more<00:09:27.839> adaptive<00:09:28.480> and<00:09:28.640> agile<00:09:29.440> or<00:09:29.720> have,<00:09:30.240> you<00:09:30.360> know,

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like<00:09:30.839> the<00:09:30.960> ability<00:09:31.400> to<00:09:31.560> hold<00:09:32.440> the<00:09:32.520> complexity<00:09:33.160> and<00:09:33.280> the<00:09:33.360> uncertainty<00:09:34.080> of<00:09:34.160> this<00:09:34.360> moment<00:09:35.080> or<00:09:35.320> have,<00:09:36.120> you<00:09:36.200> know,<00:09:36.280> again<00:09:36.520> this<00:09:36.680> like<00:09:36.839> bigger<00:09:37.120> picture<00:09:37.480> thinking<00:09:38.000> of<00:09:38.160> how

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do<00:09:38.400> they<00:09:38.600> bring<00:09:38.920> people<00:09:39.200> together<00:09:39.560> and<00:09:39.760> and<00:09:39.920> do<00:09:40.160> work<00:09:40.440> in<00:09:40.560> new<00:09:40.760> ways.

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Um,<00:09:42.080> but<00:09:42.160> those<00:09:42.360> aren't<00:09:42.760> they're<00:09:42.880> not<00:09:43.040> always<00:09:43.320> easy,<00:09:43.840> you<00:09:43.920> know,<00:09:44.040> things<00:09:44.480> to<00:09:44.560> build<00:09:44.880> and<00:09:45.000> again,<00:09:45.240> I<00:09:45.320> think<00:09:45.520> we<00:09:45.640> really<00:09:45.920> have<00:09:46.160> started<00:09:46.560> from,<00:09:47.120> unfortunately,<00:09:47.680> a<00:09:47.720> bit

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of<00:09:47.960> a<00:09:48.040> deficit<00:09:48.560> there<00:09:48.800> that<00:09:49.000> has<00:09:49.760> um<00:09:50.480> that<00:09:50.640> is<00:09:50.720> going<00:09:50.840> to<00:09:50.920> make<00:09:51.120> this<00:09:51.440> an<00:09:51.640> even<00:09:52.520> tougher<00:09:53.480> uh,<00:09:53.520> you<00:09:53.600> know,<00:09:53.760> challenge<00:09:54.240> ahead<00:09:54.640> than<00:09:55.040> than<00:09:55.320> would<00:09:55.520> otherwise<00:09:56.000> have

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have<00:09:56.520> happened.<00:09:57.440> Why<00:09:57.560> do<00:09:57.680> you<00:09:57.840> Why<00:09:57.960> do<00:09:58.080> you<00:09:58.160> say<00:09:58.280> that?

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Why<00:09:58.600> do<00:09:58.680> you<00:09:58.760> think<00:09:58.960> we<00:09:59.120> we're<00:09:59.280> starting<00:09:59.680> from<00:09:59.880> this<00:10:00.000> deficit?

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I<00:10:00.600> agree,<00:10:00.960> but<00:10:01.120> I'd<00:10:01.240> love<00:10:01.400> to<00:10:01.480> hear<00:10:01.720> your<00:10:02.240> your<00:10:02.440> thoughts<00:10:02.720> on<00:10:02.840> that.

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I<00:10:04.720> I<00:10:04.800> think<00:10:05.040> a<00:10:05.120> lot<00:10:05.480> of<00:10:05.600> things<00:10:06.520> um,<00:10:06.760> you<00:10:06.840> know,<00:10:07.440> have<00:10:07.720> have<00:10:07.920> just<00:10:08.160> like<00:10:08.320> shifted<00:10:08.920> in<00:10:09.200> in<00:10:09.320> the<00:10:09.440> world,<00:10:09.760> obviously,<00:10:10.280> in<00:10:10.480> in<00:10:10.640> a<00:10:10.680> lot<00:10:10.880> of<00:10:10.960> ways,<00:10:11.400> but,<00:10:12.000> you<00:10:12.080> know,<00:10:12.200> we<00:10:12.320> think

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about<00:10:12.720> like<00:10:12.840> the<00:10:12.960> COVID<00:10:13.440> era<00:10:14.000> when<00:10:14.480> companies<00:10:14.960> were<00:10:15.080> investing<00:10:15.760> tons<00:10:16.400> into<00:10:16.640> their<00:10:16.800> people<00:10:17.600> and<00:10:18.320> supporting<00:10:18.840> them<00:10:19.000> through<00:10:19.160> that<00:10:19.440> time.

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Obviously,<00:10:20.400> the<00:10:20.520> macro<00:10:21.120> economy<00:10:21.680> was<00:10:21.800> in<00:10:21.920> a<00:10:22.000> much<00:10:22.360> different<00:10:22.680> place<00:10:23.040> then<00:10:23.800> and<00:10:23.960> as<00:10:24.160> we've<00:10:24.360> now<00:10:24.600> left<00:10:24.960> that<00:10:25.520> kind<00:10:25.720> of<00:10:25.960> that<00:10:26.200> phase,<00:10:27.280> um,<00:10:27.440> you<00:10:27.520> know,<00:10:27.680> the<00:10:27.920> economy<00:10:28.920> going

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to<00:10:29.680> to<00:10:30.080> whatever<00:10:30.640> I<00:10:30.680> don't<00:10:30.880> even<00:10:31.000> know<00:10:31.120> what<00:10:31.240> it's<00:10:31.360> doing<00:10:31.640> anymore,<00:10:32.000> but,<00:10:32.160> you<00:10:32.240> know,<00:10:32.320> whatever<00:10:32.640> it<00:10:32.720> is<00:10:32.880> now,<00:10:33.600> um,<00:10:34.800> uh,<00:10:34.880> you<00:10:34.920> know,<00:10:35.200> being<00:10:35.480> in<00:10:35.560> that<00:10:35.760> state,<00:10:36.480> um,<00:10:36.840> I<00:10:36.920> think

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just<00:10:37.400> like<00:10:38.000> has<00:10:38.280> has<00:10:38.480> really<00:10:38.720> shifted,<00:10:39.680> um,<00:10:40.160> you<00:10:40.280> know,<00:10:40.480> the<00:10:40.839> the<00:10:40.960> macro<00:10:41.400> environment<00:10:42.120> in<00:10:42.240> a<00:10:42.320> way<00:10:42.600> that<00:10:43.320> this<00:10:43.480> is<00:10:43.600> where<00:10:43.720> I<00:10:43.760> was<00:10:43.920> saying<00:10:44.080> the<00:10:44.200> pendulum,<00:10:44.760> I<00:10:44.839> think,<00:10:45.080> has

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just<00:10:45.520> swung<00:10:45.920> now<00:10:46.240> in<00:10:46.360> the<00:10:46.480> complete<00:10:46.880> other<00:10:47.120> direction,<00:10:47.720> you<00:10:47.839> know,<00:10:47.920> now<00:10:48.160> you<00:10:48.280> have<00:10:48.720> like<00:10:49.560> return-to-office<00:10:50.320> mandates<00:10:50.960> and<00:10:51.080> you<00:10:51.200> have,<00:10:51.760> you<00:10:51.800> know,<00:10:51.960> everything<00:10:52.400> is<00:10:52.480> about

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efficiency<00:10:53.839> and<00:10:54.000> productivity<00:10:54.800> and<00:10:54.960> results<00:10:55.400> at<00:10:55.520> all<00:10:55.680> costs<00:10:56.440> and<00:10:57.080> um,<00:10:57.480> and<00:10:57.640> so<00:10:57.760> I<00:10:57.839> think<00:10:58.080> we've<00:10:58.240> kind<00:10:58.440> of<00:10:58.560> lost<00:10:58.880> sight<00:10:59.200> now<00:10:59.640> of<00:10:59.920> the<00:11:00.040> people<00:11:00.400> side<00:11:00.720> of<00:11:00.800> this<00:11:01.240> and<00:11:02.080> and

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I<00:11:02.280> think<00:11:02.960> that<00:11:03.240> again<00:11:03.520> had<00:11:03.760> been<00:11:03.920> brewing<00:11:04.960> for<00:11:05.160> a<00:11:05.240> while,<00:11:06.000> um,<00:11:07.360> I<00:11:07.680> I<00:11:07.839> I<00:11:07.880> think<00:11:08.120> other<00:11:08.320> than<00:11:08.720> other<00:11:08.880> than<00:11:09.000> the<00:11:09.080> macro<00:11:09.440> shifts,<00:11:09.760> though,<00:11:09.880> the<00:11:09.960> other<00:11:10.120> thing<00:11:10.320> I

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think<00:11:10.600> of<00:11:10.760> is<00:11:10.920> just<00:11:11.160> that<00:11:11.480> I<00:11:11.520> think,<00:11:12.320> um,<00:11:12.839> you<00:11:12.960> know,<00:11:13.080> you<00:11:13.240> asked<00:11:13.440> me<00:11:13.839> what<00:11:14.120> what<00:11:14.280> was<00:11:14.440> the<00:11:14.520> simple<00:11:14.760> question<00:11:15.160> of<00:11:15.320> what<00:11:15.480> is<00:11:15.600> leadership,<00:11:16.240> you<00:11:16.360> know,<00:11:17.000> I<00:11:17.040> don't<00:11:17.680> there's

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so<00:11:18.120> many<00:11:18.440> different<00:11:19.640> types<00:11:19.880> of<00:11:20.000> leaders<00:11:20.360> out<00:11:20.520> there<00:11:20.680> and<00:11:20.839> stuff,<00:11:21.120> but<00:11:21.240> I<00:11:21.320> do<00:11:21.480> think<00:11:21.680> like<00:11:21.839> a<00:11:21.920> lot<00:11:22.080> of<00:11:22.160> people<00:11:22.440> have<00:11:23.080> sort<00:11:23.280> of<00:11:23.400> learned<00:11:23.800> leadership<00:11:24.400> just<00:11:24.640> by<00:11:25.000> whoever<00:11:25.800> was

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in<00:11:26.240> their,<00:11:26.920> you<00:11:27.000> know,<00:11:27.280> their<00:11:27.520> close<00:11:27.839> proximity.

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Uh,<00:11:29.080> who<00:11:29.240> did<00:11:29.400> who<00:11:29.520> did<00:11:29.640> they<00:11:29.800> work<00:11:30.040> with?<00:11:30.200> Who<00:11:30.320> did<00:11:30.440> they<00:11:30.560> learn<00:11:30.839> from?

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Um,<00:11:32.080> and<00:11:32.200> we<00:11:32.360> haven't<00:11:33.160> I<00:11:33.200> don't<00:11:33.360> think<00:11:33.560> companies<00:11:33.960> have<00:11:34.080> really<00:11:34.280> figured<00:11:34.640> out<00:11:34.920> how<00:11:35.200> to<00:11:35.360> develop<00:11:35.960> leaders<00:11:36.640> and<00:11:36.800> great<00:11:37.040> leaders<00:11:37.560> at<00:11:37.760> scale<00:11:38.200> in<00:11:38.320> an<00:11:38.480> organization.

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And<00:11:39.440> so<00:11:39.520> therefore<00:11:39.920> a<00:11:39.960> lot<00:11:40.200> of<00:11:40.320> like<00:11:41.080> bad<00:11:41.400> behavior<00:11:41.840> sort<00:11:42.080> of<00:11:42.200> gets<00:11:43.520> passed<00:11:43.800> down<00:11:44.360> or<00:11:44.760> is<00:11:44.960> just<00:11:45.200> like<00:11:45.400> permitted<00:11:45.920> to<00:11:46.000> continue<00:11:46.440> to<00:11:46.560> happen.

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And<00:11:48.440> and<00:11:48.600> people<00:11:49.000> are<00:11:49.360> are<00:11:49.480> not<00:11:49.760> really<00:11:50.880> able<00:11:51.280> to<00:11:51.440> see<00:11:51.760> like<00:11:52.040> what<00:11:52.240> a<00:11:52.480> what<00:11:53.120> different<00:11:53.560> and<00:11:53.720> much<00:11:54.000> better<00:11:54.280> leadership<00:11:54.800> would<00:11:54.920> actually<00:11:55.320> look<00:11:55.560> like.

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And<00:11:56.600> again,<00:11:56.800> I<00:11:56.840> think<00:11:57.040> the<00:11:57.120> combo<00:11:57.600> of<00:11:57.760> like<00:11:57.960> not<00:11:58.200> having<00:11:58.480> a<00:11:58.560> great<00:11:58.880> way<00:11:59.000> to<00:11:59.120> develop<00:11:59.560> those<00:11:59.800> kinds<00:12:00.040> of<00:12:00.120> leaders<00:12:00.440> at<00:12:00.600> scale<00:12:01.080> and<00:12:01.920> the<00:12:02.040> macro<00:12:02.520> environment<00:12:03.160> that<00:12:03.320> we<00:12:03.440> find

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ourselves<00:12:04.080> in<00:12:04.200> now<00:12:05.440> is<00:12:05.880> just<00:12:06.760> it's<00:12:07.480> working<00:12:07.800> against<00:12:08.240> us<00:12:08.920> as<00:12:09.080> far<00:12:09.280> as<00:12:09.400> like<00:12:09.520> getting<00:12:09.760> the<00:12:09.840> kind<00:12:10.040> of<00:12:10.120> leader<00:12:10.360> that<00:12:10.520> we<00:12:10.640> actually<00:12:10.960> need.

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How<00:12:12.440> do<00:12:12.520> you<00:12:12.640> think<00:12:12.880> about<00:12:13.240> personal<00:12:13.720> leadership<00:12:14.280> in<00:12:14.360> this<00:12:14.520> whole<00:12:14.720> idea<00:12:15.000> like<00:12:15.200> if<00:12:15.320> you<00:12:15.400> can't<00:12:15.800> lead<00:12:16.080> yourself,<00:12:16.640> you<00:12:16.760> probably<00:12:17.200> can't<00:12:17.680> lead<00:12:17.920> others?

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Yes.<00:12:19.120> How<00:12:19.880> how<00:12:20.120> have<00:12:20.280> you<00:12:20.440> experienced<00:12:21.080> that?

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How<00:12:21.680> do<00:12:21.800> you<00:12:21.960> personally<00:12:22.400> lead<00:12:22.640> yourself?<00:12:23.840> And<00:12:24.160> you<00:12:24.280> know,<00:12:24.400> with<00:12:24.640> your<00:12:24.800> clients<00:12:25.280> and<00:12:25.360> the<00:12:25.440> people<00:12:25.720> who<00:12:25.880> work<00:12:26.040> with<00:12:26.160> Torch,<00:12:27.560> what<00:12:27.760> has<00:12:27.920> worked<00:12:28.280> and<00:12:28.440> what<00:12:28.680> what<00:12:28.800> have<00:12:28.920> you

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seen<00:12:29.280> that's<00:12:29.480> been<00:12:29.680> kind<00:12:29.840> of<00:12:29.920> detrimental<00:12:30.440> maybe<00:12:30.760> even?

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Yeah.<00:12:32.560> Well,<00:12:33.160> I<00:12:33.280> am<00:12:33.440> a<00:12:33.480> big<00:12:33.720> believer<00:12:34.120> in<00:12:34.240> that,<00:12:34.800> and<00:12:35.160> and<00:12:35.320> that<00:12:35.520> is<00:12:35.800> is<00:12:35.960> definitely<00:12:36.280> a<00:12:36.320> big<00:12:36.600> thing<00:12:36.839> that<00:12:37.320> has<00:12:37.760> brought<00:12:38.160> me<00:12:38.400> to<00:12:38.560> the<00:12:38.640> world<00:12:38.920> of<00:12:39.040> coaching<00:12:39.680> is

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you<00:12:40.600> know,<00:12:40.720> for<00:12:40.839> myself<00:12:41.400> as<00:12:41.520> a<00:12:41.600> leader.<00:12:42.680> Prior<00:12:43.200> to<00:12:44.000> going<00:12:44.280> into<00:12:44.440> coaching<00:12:45.000> and<00:12:45.240> doing<00:12:45.440> the<00:12:45.520> work<00:12:45.760> that<00:12:45.880> I've<00:12:46.040> done<00:12:46.480> through<00:12:46.880> through<00:12:47.080> my<00:12:47.240> own<00:12:47.400> coaching<00:12:47.760> experiences,

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You<00:12:49.600> know,<00:12:49.680> I<00:12:49.760> was<00:12:50.080> I<00:12:50.160> was<00:12:50.360> think<00:12:50.640> I<00:12:51.000> I<00:12:51.080> was<00:12:51.200> thought<00:12:51.360> I<00:12:51.400> was<00:12:51.520> a<00:12:51.560> really<00:12:51.760> good<00:12:52.000> leader.

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Like<00:12:52.480> I<00:12:52.720> delivered<00:12:53.200> results.<00:12:53.680> I<00:12:53.720> was<00:12:53.880> probably<00:12:54.360> on<00:12:54.480> that<00:12:54.720> end<00:12:54.839> of<00:12:54.920> the<00:12:55.000> spectrum<00:12:55.520> of<00:12:55.800> like,<00:12:56.120> you<00:12:56.200> know,<00:12:56.320> I<00:12:56.440> knew<00:12:56.680> how<00:12:56.800> to<00:12:56.920> get<00:12:57.120> stuff<00:12:57.440> done.

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Really<00:12:59.560> like<00:13:00.000> execution<00:13:00.480> machine<00:13:01.040> kind<00:13:01.240> of<00:13:01.320> person.

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But<00:13:02.720> I<00:13:02.760> didn't<00:13:03.240> spend<00:13:03.760> that<00:13:04.000> much<00:13:04.240> time<00:13:04.720> really<00:13:04.960> thinking<00:13:05.320> about<00:13:05.720> like<00:13:06.560> the<00:13:06.680> team<00:13:07.120> itself<00:13:07.960> or<00:13:08.560> even<00:13:08.839> like<00:13:09.080> spending<00:13:09.400> time<00:13:09.880> getting<00:13:10.160> to<00:13:10.280> know<00:13:10.600> the

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people<00:13:11.120> on<00:13:11.240> the<00:13:11.360> team<00:13:11.720> in<00:13:11.800> the<00:13:11.880> way<00:13:12.120> that<00:13:13.120> that<00:13:13.320> I<00:13:13.400> otherwise<00:13:13.920> could<00:13:14.160> have.

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And<00:13:15.720> going<00:13:16.040> through<00:13:16.280> coaching<00:13:16.760> and<00:13:16.880> just<00:13:17.040> really<00:13:17.320> realizing<00:13:18.000> where<00:13:18.240> like<00:13:18.520> my<00:13:18.880> own<00:13:19.160> foundation<00:13:19.839> was<00:13:20.080> probably<00:13:20.720> like<00:13:20.960> shaky.

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And<00:13:22.480> and<00:13:22.880> and<00:13:23.240> when<00:13:23.480> I<00:13:23.640> got<00:13:23.920> better<00:13:24.160> in<00:13:24.280> touch<00:13:24.600> with<00:13:24.839> like<00:13:25.520> my<00:13:25.720> own<00:13:25.960> values<00:13:26.600> and<00:13:26.760> like<00:13:26.920> my<00:13:27.120> own<00:13:27.720> you<00:13:27.840> know<00:13:27.960> strengths<00:13:28.480> and<00:13:28.680> areas<00:13:29.000> of<00:13:29.120> development<00:13:29.720> and<00:13:29.840> stuff<00:13:30.040> like<00:13:30.200> that

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and<00:13:30.560> really<00:13:30.800> like<00:13:31.040> figured<00:13:31.400> out<00:13:31.600> how<00:13:31.760> do<00:13:32.000> I<00:13:32.240> want<00:13:32.440> to<00:13:32.520> be<00:13:33.120> showing<00:13:33.480> up<00:13:33.720> in<00:13:33.880> the<00:13:33.960> world<00:13:35.360> you<00:13:35.480> know<00:13:35.720> as<00:13:36.120> a<00:13:36.160> leader<00:13:36.480> and<00:13:36.640> just<00:13:36.920> as<00:13:37.120> a<00:13:37.160> person<00:13:37.520> at<00:13:37.640> work.

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That's<00:13:39.480> that<00:13:39.760> was<00:13:39.920> where<00:13:40.120> a<00:13:40.200> lot<00:13:40.440> of<00:13:40.560> things<00:13:40.960> like<00:13:41.280> got<00:13:41.520> unlocked<00:13:42.120> for<00:13:42.280> me<00:13:42.440> personally<00:13:43.160> and<00:13:43.320> then<00:13:43.520> I<00:13:43.600> was<00:13:43.800> able<00:13:44.120> to<00:13:44.320> really<00:13:44.600> like<00:13:45.520> see<00:13:45.840> other<00:13:46.080> people<00:13:47.160> differently

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and<00:13:48.000> motivate<00:13:48.400> them<00:13:48.560> differently<00:13:49.080> and<00:13:49.200> connect<00:13:49.520> with<00:13:49.640> them<00:13:49.760> differently<00:13:50.560> and<00:13:50.760> then<00:13:50.960> we<00:13:51.080> were<00:13:51.160> able<00:13:51.400> to<00:13:51.520> deliver<00:13:51.960> results<00:13:52.400> differently<00:13:52.920> together<00:13:53.360> as<00:13:53.560> well.

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But<00:13:55.080> had<00:13:55.280> I<00:13:55.360> not<00:13:55.640> ever<00:13:55.880> gone<00:13:56.200> through<00:13:56.400> that<00:13:56.600> experience<00:13:57.400> of<00:13:57.600> really<00:13:57.880> like<00:13:58.240> slowing<00:13:58.760> down<00:13:59.160> and<00:13:59.400> and<00:13:59.640> thinking<00:14:00.120> about<00:14:01.120> who<00:14:01.720> who<00:14:01.960> am<00:14:02.200> I<00:14:02.280> and<00:14:02.400> how

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do<00:14:02.640> I<00:14:02.720> want<00:14:02.880> to<00:14:02.960> be<00:14:03.680> in<00:14:03.960> the<00:14:04.080> world<00:14:04.320> of<00:14:04.440> work<00:14:04.800> like<00:14:05.000> in<00:14:05.080> a<00:14:05.120> more<00:14:05.320> intentional<00:14:05.960> way?

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I<00:14:07.000> you<00:14:07.080> know<00:14:07.160> I<00:14:07.240> don't<00:14:07.560> think<00:14:07.800> I<00:14:07.920> would<00:14:08.080> have<00:14:08.320> been<00:14:08.520> able<00:14:08.800> to<00:14:09.360> to<00:14:09.520> have<00:14:10.240> the<00:14:10.360> journey<00:14:10.640> that<00:14:10.800> I've<00:14:10.920> had<00:14:11.360> you<00:14:11.440> know<00:14:11.560> since<00:14:11.920> then.

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So<00:14:13.800> I<00:14:13.920> yeah<00:14:14.160> I<00:14:14.200> think<00:14:14.600> it<00:14:14.680> is<00:14:14.840> a<00:14:14.960> really<00:14:15.320> important<00:14:15.720> aspect.

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Go<00:14:16.520> ahead.<00:14:17.000> Tell<00:14:17.160> me<00:14:17.320> what<00:14:17.440> a<00:14:17.520> typical<00:14:17.920> day<00:14:18.080> looks<00:14:18.320> like<00:14:18.480> for<00:14:18.640> you.

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Typical<00:14:20.400> day.<00:14:21.360> Well,<00:14:21.560> I<00:14:21.640> have<00:14:21.840> three<00:14:22.080> small<00:14:22.360> children,<00:14:23.240> so<00:14:23.954> [laughter]<00:14:24.440> It's<00:14:24.640> like<00:14:25.440> It's<00:14:25.760> sort<00:14:25.960> of<00:14:26.080> chaos.

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I<00:14:27.400> have<00:14:27.800> I<00:14:27.840> have<00:14:27.960> three<00:14:28.160> young<00:14:28.360> daughters.<00:14:29.839> So<00:14:30.240> I<00:14:30.600> I<00:14:30.800> start<00:14:31.080> my<00:14:31.200> day<00:14:31.360> before<00:14:31.760> I'm<00:14:32.160> I'm<00:14:32.320> ready<00:14:32.600> usually<00:14:33.000> with<00:14:33.160> one<00:14:33.320> of<00:14:33.400> them<00:14:33.560> waking<00:14:33.839> me<00:14:34.000> up<00:14:35.160> but<00:14:36.000> get

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them<00:14:36.640> get<00:14:36.760> them<00:14:36.920> out<00:14:37.040> the<00:14:37.120> door.<00:14:38.280> I<00:14:38.400> do<00:14:38.600> work<00:14:39.040> remotely<00:14:39.560> so<00:14:39.680> I<00:14:39.760> work<00:14:39.960> from<00:14:40.120> home<00:14:40.400> which<00:14:40.640> is<00:14:41.480> very<00:14:41.839> very<00:14:42.240> nice<00:14:43.000> when<00:14:43.160> you<00:14:43.240> have<00:14:43.440> three<00:14:43.680> small<00:14:43.960> children<00:14:44.400> for

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sure.<00:14:45.520> It's<00:14:45.680> tough<00:14:45.960> to<00:14:46.600> to<00:14:46.720> balance<00:14:47.080> this<00:14:47.200> kind<00:14:47.440> of<00:14:47.520> job<00:14:48.040> and<00:14:48.320> and<00:14:48.440> that<00:14:48.560> kind<00:14:48.720> of<00:14:48.800> home<00:14:49.040> life<00:14:49.400> but<00:14:50.800> I<00:14:51.360> work<00:14:51.560> with<00:14:51.640> a<00:14:51.680> lot<00:14:51.800> of<00:14:51.880> people<00:14:52.040> on<00:14:52.120> the<00:14:52.200> West<00:14:52.440> Coast<00:14:52.800> so

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This<00:16:41.960> is<00:16:42.120> This<00:16:42.400> is<00:16:42.880> an<00:16:43.000> incredible<00:16:43.720> This<00:16:44.040> I<00:16:44.120> imagine<00:16:44.480> it's<00:16:44.600> a<00:16:44.680> super<00:16:45.040> rewarding<00:16:45.480> job.

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didn't<00:17:16.240> I<00:17:16.319> didn't<00:17:16.640> grow<00:17:16.880> and<00:17:17.040> build<00:17:17.319> the<00:17:17.400> business<00:17:17.800> from<00:17:18.319> from<00:17:18.560> zero<00:17:19.040> to<00:17:19.520> you<00:17:19.600> know,<00:17:19.720> to<00:17:19.880> one<00:17:20.040> and<00:17:20.160> beyond.

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How<00:17:27.920> do<00:17:28.000> we<00:17:28.120> scale<00:17:28.600> what<00:17:28.760> we're<00:17:28.880> doing?<00:17:30.000> And<00:17:30.240> that<00:17:30.920> has<00:17:31.160> been<00:17:32.080> just<00:17:32.320> really<00:17:32.520> really<00:17:32.760> interesting<00:17:33.560> time<00:17:33.920> to<00:17:34.200> to<00:17:34.360> go<00:17:34.520> through,<00:17:35.400> you<00:17:35.520> know,<00:17:35.680> and<00:17:35.960> and

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So,<00:17:43.880> it's<00:17:44.040> been<00:17:44.280> just<00:17:44.520> a<00:17:44.600> huge<00:17:45.480> learning<00:17:46.000> experience<00:17:47.040> and<00:17:48.080> um,<00:17:48.520> and<00:17:48.960> and<00:17:49.080> really<00:17:49.280> just<00:17:50.160> had<00:17:50.360> to<00:17:50.440> think<00:17:50.640> a<00:17:50.720> lot<00:17:50.920> about<00:17:51.160> like<00:17:51.840> what

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What<00:17:55.480> are<00:17:55.560> we<00:17:55.640> going<00:17:55.880> to<00:17:56.360> focus<00:17:56.760> on<00:17:56.920> doing<00:17:57.240> or<00:17:57.320> not<00:17:57.600> doing<00:17:57.960> in<00:17:58.080> order<00:17:58.360> to<00:17:58.480> be<00:17:58.640> successful<00:17:59.360> here?

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And<00:18:00.000> and<00:18:00.240> so,<00:18:01.320> um,<00:18:01.760> you<00:18:01.840> know,<00:18:01.960> we<00:18:02.120> really<00:18:02.760> like<00:18:03.000> made<00:18:03.400> a<00:18:03.600> number<00:18:04.000> of<00:18:04.440> pretty<00:18:04.960> challenging<00:18:05.480> like<00:18:05.680> strategic<00:18:06.200> decisions<00:18:06.840> about<00:18:07.360> what<00:18:07.640> parts<00:18:07.880> of

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we<00:18:22.440> have<00:18:23.080> we<00:18:23.120> have<00:18:23.200> a<00:18:23.280> Slack<00:18:23.680> channel<00:18:24.160> that<00:18:25.080> gets<00:18:25.280> an<00:18:25.400> automatic<00:18:26.000> post<00:18:26.400> every<00:18:26.600> time<00:18:27.200> someone<00:18:28.240> completes<00:18:29.280> um,<00:18:29.560> one<00:18:29.760> of<00:18:29.880> our<00:18:30.200> like<00:18:30.440> feedback

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um,<00:18:31.960> surveys<00:18:32.640> about<00:18:32.960> their<00:18:33.120> time<00:18:33.360> in<00:18:33.480> coaching.

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And<00:18:34.120> so,<00:18:34.240> I<00:18:34.360> get<00:18:34.560> to<00:18:34.680> see<00:18:35.000> the<00:18:35.160> quotes<00:18:35.920> of<00:18:36.160> the<00:18:36.280> people<00:18:36.640> who<00:18:37.320> have<00:18:37.480> had<00:18:37.680> these<00:18:37.880> like<00:18:38.040> very<00:18:38.280> personally<00:18:39.000> transformative<00:18:39.760> experiences<00:18:40.480> in<00:18:40.600> coaching<00:18:41.480> all<00:18:41.640> day<00:18:41.800> long.

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Um,<00:18:42.760> and<00:18:42.960> I<00:18:43.240> I<00:18:43.360> love<00:18:43.640> that.<00:18:44.000> And<00:18:44.200> and<00:18:44.440> for<00:18:44.600> me<00:18:45.160> personally,<00:18:45.680> like<00:18:45.880> that's<00:18:46.080> what<00:18:46.200> it's<00:18:46.320> all<00:18:46.480> about.

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That's<00:18:47.080> what<00:18:47.200> helps<00:18:47.520> me<00:18:48.240> get<00:18:48.560> through<00:18:48.760> hard<00:18:49.040> things.

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That's<00:18:49.720> what<00:18:50.080> makes<00:18:50.360> me<00:18:50.480> keep<00:18:50.680> doing<00:18:50.920> what<00:18:51.040> I'm<00:18:51.160> doing<00:18:51.640> is<00:18:51.880> is<00:18:52.120> knowing<00:18:52.600> that<00:18:53.440> the<00:18:53.840> the<00:18:53.960> thing<00:18:54.160> that<00:18:54.280> we're<00:18:54.400> providing<00:18:54.920> in<00:18:55.000> these<00:18:55.200> companies<00:18:55.920> and<00:18:56.160> and<00:18:56.320> for<00:18:56.560> these<00:18:56.760> individual

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people<00:18:57.880> is<00:18:58.480> it<00:18:58.680> is<00:18:59.000> definitely<00:18:59.680> making<00:19:00.080> like<00:19:00.240> a<00:19:00.320> really<00:19:00.600> big<00:19:00.800> difference<00:19:01.400> and<00:19:02.120> and<00:19:02.320> I<00:19:02.360> think<00:19:02.560> it's<00:19:02.760> it's<00:19:03.160> unlike<00:19:03.800> anything<00:19:04.200> that<00:19:04.440> else<00:19:04.680> that<00:19:04.840> I've<00:19:05.160> worked<00:19:05.480> on

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before.<00:19:06.280> You<00:19:06.360> know,<00:19:06.520> I've<00:19:06.680> worked<00:19:07.000> on<00:19:07.640> selling<00:19:07.960> software<00:19:08.520> and<00:19:08.640> things<00:19:08.840> like<00:19:09.000> that.

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And<00:19:10.440> um,<00:19:11.080> you<00:19:11.240> know,<00:19:11.360> you<00:19:11.480> might<00:19:11.680> be<00:19:11.760> like,<00:19:12.000> oh,<00:19:12.080> I<00:19:12.200> really<00:19:12.440> love<00:19:12.680> this<00:19:12.880> piece<00:19:13.120> of<00:19:13.240> software<00:19:13.640> that<00:19:13.840> I<00:19:13.920> use,<00:19:14.240> but<00:19:14.360> it's<00:19:14.480> not<00:19:14.640> going<00:19:14.760> to<00:19:14.840> like<00:19:15.080> change<00:19:15.520> It's<00:19:15.800> usually<00:19:16.080> not

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like<00:19:16.440> changing<00:19:16.840> your<00:19:17.520> uh<00:19:17.720> you<00:19:17.800> know,<00:19:17.920> your<00:19:18.080> life<00:19:18.360> in<00:19:18.480> any<00:19:18.880> real<00:19:19.080> significant<00:19:19.640> way."

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Um<00:19:20.960> but<00:19:21.120> co-<00:19:21.520> coaching<00:19:21.880> does<00:19:22.320> and<00:19:22.560> and<00:19:22.760> I<00:19:22.840> think<00:19:23.040> that's<00:19:23.320> like<00:19:23.480> the<00:19:23.600> coolest<00:19:24.040> part<00:19:24.280> of<00:19:24.520> of<00:19:24.680> what<00:19:25.000> what<00:19:25.200> we<00:19:25.320> do.

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Um<00:19:26.720> you<00:19:26.800> know,<00:19:26.880> it's<00:19:27.120> it's<00:19:27.320> definitely<00:19:27.640> like<00:19:27.920> a<00:19:28.480> It's<00:19:28.560> like<00:19:28.680> a<00:19:28.760> tech-enabled<00:19:29.440> services<00:19:30.000> business<00:19:30.560> and<00:19:30.760> so<00:19:30.960> it<00:19:31.080> is<00:19:31.800> There<00:19:32.040> are<00:19:32.160> lots<00:19:32.480> of<00:19:32.600> challenges<00:19:33.160> to<00:19:33.280> that<00:19:33.480> that<00:19:33.600> are

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very<00:19:33.960> different<00:19:34.360> from<00:19:34.560> something<00:19:34.920> like,<00:19:35.320> you<00:19:35.400> know,<00:19:35.560> uh<00:19:35.680> selling<00:19:36.080> software<00:19:37.120> um<00:19:37.920> in<00:19:38.120> in<00:19:38.320> like<00:19:38.480> the<00:19:38.560> more<00:19:38.720> traditional<00:19:39.200> sense,<00:19:39.640> but<00:19:40.480> um<00:19:40.960> I<00:19:41.000> don't<00:19:41.120> know.

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I<00:19:41.440> I<00:19:41.480> like<00:19:41.720> the<00:19:42.240> I<00:19:42.280> really<00:19:42.480> like<00:19:42.680> the<00:19:42.800> challenge<00:19:43.400> of<00:19:43.600> all<00:19:43.880> of<00:19:44.040> that<00:19:44.400> and<00:19:44.640> and<00:19:44.840> the<00:19:45.320> the<00:19:45.440> difficulty<00:19:46.160> of<00:19:46.440> of<00:19:46.640> the<00:19:47.120> the<00:19:47.200> different<00:19:47.480> aspects<00:19:47.920> of<00:19:48.000> the<00:19:48.080> problem.

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Yeah.<00:19:50.120> How<00:19:50.280> do<00:19:50.440> you<00:19:51.000> become<00:19:51.400> a<00:19:51.440> coach?

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Uh<00:19:52.880> like<00:19:53.160> how<00:19:53.280> many<00:19:53.440> coaches<00:19:53.720> do<00:19:53.840> you<00:19:53.920> have<00:19:54.560> for<00:19:54.840> a<00:19:54.920> coach<00:19:55.200> for<00:19:55.320> Torch<00:19:55.840> in<00:19:56.120> in<00:19:56.280> particular?

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Like<00:19:57.320> how<00:19:57.440> do<00:19:57.560> you<00:19:57.680> think<00:19:57.920> about<00:19:58.240> recruiting<00:19:58.680> coaches<00:19:59.280> and<00:20:00.000> Yeah.

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Yeah.<00:20:01.560> Um<00:20:01.720> so<00:20:01.840> we<00:20:02.000> have<00:20:02.760> uh<00:20:03.080> we<00:20:03.160> have<00:20:03.280> over<00:20:03.480> 350<00:20:04.320> coaches<00:20:05.360> um<00:20:05.600> in<00:20:05.720> our<00:20:06.040> in<00:20:06.160> our<00:20:06.280> coaching<00:20:06.640> network<00:20:07.320> and<00:20:08.560> uh

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to<00:20:08.960> get<00:20:09.280> to<00:20:09.400> become<00:20:09.720> a<00:20:09.800> coach,<00:20:10.400> typically<00:20:10.800> people<00:20:11.040> work<00:20:11.240> through<00:20:11.400> some<00:20:11.560> sort<00:20:11.760> of<00:20:11.880> coaching<00:20:12.320> certification<00:20:13.160> program<00:20:14.200> um<00:20:14.440> and<00:20:14.560> achieve<00:20:14.920> different<00:20:15.240> levels<00:20:15.600> of<00:20:15.720> certification.

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Um<00:20:17.240> in<00:20:17.480> in<00:20:17.600> the<00:20:17.680> world<00:20:17.840> of<00:20:17.920> coaching,<00:20:18.240> there's<00:20:18.440> lots<00:20:18.720> of<00:20:18.840> providers<00:20:19.400> out<00:20:19.560> there<00:20:19.720> that<00:20:19.920> will<00:20:20.160> teach<00:20:20.480> you<00:20:20.760> how<00:20:21.040> to<00:20:21.200> become<00:20:21.520> a<00:20:21.560> coach.

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Um<00:20:23.400> but<00:20:24.080> uh<00:20:24.200> at<00:20:24.440> Torch,<00:20:24.800> we<00:20:24.920> really<00:20:25.160> want<00:20:25.280> to<00:20:25.360> make<00:20:25.520> sure<00:20:25.720> that<00:20:26.120> we're<00:20:26.920> not<00:20:27.080> just<00:20:27.280> finding<00:20:27.800> someone<00:20:28.120> who's<00:20:28.240> gone<00:20:28.480> and<00:20:28.640> gotten<00:20:28.880> that<00:20:29.040> certification,<00:20:29.800> but<00:20:29.960> someone<00:20:30.160> who's

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actually<00:20:30.680> been<00:20:31.000> out<00:20:31.320> and<00:20:31.800> very<00:20:32.040> experienced<00:20:32.960> as<00:20:33.160> a<00:20:33.200> coach.

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Um<00:20:34.960> We<00:20:35.120> also<00:20:35.400> look<00:20:35.560> for<00:20:35.680> people<00:20:35.960> who've<00:20:36.320> been<00:20:36.560> leaders<00:20:37.000> themselves.

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So<00:20:38.120> it's<00:20:38.320> not<00:20:38.880> enough<00:20:39.240> to<00:20:39.600> to<00:20:39.760> just<00:20:40.000> be<00:20:40.120> like<00:20:40.400> a<00:20:40.480> really<00:20:40.720> experienced<00:20:41.360> coach.

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We<00:20:42.400> really<00:20:42.640> look<00:20:42.800> for<00:20:42.920> people<00:20:43.160> who<00:20:43.240> are<00:20:43.360> also<00:20:43.880> people<00:20:44.200> who've<00:20:44.360> had<00:20:44.840> you<00:20:44.960> know,<00:20:45.080> professional<00:20:45.640> careers<00:20:46.040> of<00:20:46.160> their<00:20:46.400> own<00:20:46.880> prior<00:20:47.160> to<00:20:47.240> going<00:20:47.440> into<00:20:47.640> coaching.

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And<00:20:48.800> the<00:20:48.880> combination<00:20:49.480> of<00:20:49.560> that<00:20:49.760> is<00:20:49.920> really<00:20:50.160> great<00:20:50.480> when<00:20:50.600> you're<00:20:50.960> coaching<00:20:51.320> people<00:20:51.600> in<00:20:51.680> these<00:20:51.880> large<00:20:52.160> organizations<00:20:52.960> cuz<00:20:53.680> not<00:20:53.880> only,<00:20:54.600> you<00:20:54.720> know,<00:20:54.840> do<00:20:54.960> you<00:20:55.040> have<00:20:55.160> the

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coaching<00:20:55.520> experience,<00:20:56.080> but<00:20:56.480> with<00:20:56.600> that<00:20:56.800> professional<00:20:57.240> experience,<00:20:57.760> you<00:20:58.040> have<00:20:58.240> walked<00:20:58.600> in<00:20:58.800> some<00:20:59.080> sort<00:20:59.320> of<00:20:59.400> similar<00:21:00.120> shoes<00:21:00.560> as<00:21:00.720> them.

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It<00:21:01.440> doesn't<00:21:01.680> have<00:21:01.800> to<00:21:01.920> be<00:21:02.080> like<00:21:02.680> um<00:21:03.040> it<00:21:03.120> doesn't<00:21:03.280> have<00:21:03.400> to<00:21:03.480> be<00:21:03.560> apples<00:21:03.920> to<00:21:04.040> apples<00:21:04.440> if<00:21:04.600> they've<00:21:04.800> done<00:21:04.960> the<00:21:05.040> exact<00:21:05.440> job<00:21:05.800> that<00:21:05.880> have.

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Like<00:21:06.640> actually<00:21:07.040> the<00:21:08.040> the<00:21:08.120> different<00:21:08.520> perspective<00:21:09.280> is<00:21:09.480> really<00:21:10.120> healthy<00:21:10.600> and<00:21:10.800> and<00:21:10.920> a<00:21:11.000> very<00:21:11.240> good<00:21:11.440> thing<00:21:11.640> about<00:21:11.920> coaching.

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Um,<00:21:13.240> but<00:21:13.600> just<00:21:13.800> knowing<00:21:14.120> that<00:21:14.480> they<00:21:14.720> have<00:21:15.120> worked<00:21:15.440> in<00:21:15.760> these<00:21:15.920> sorts<00:21:16.240> of<00:21:16.560> organizations<00:21:17.280> and<00:21:17.400> environments<00:21:18.000> is<00:21:18.160> very<00:21:18.400> helpful.

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That<00:21:19.720> said,<00:21:20.480> um,<00:21:20.800> there<00:21:21.120> there<00:21:21.320> are<00:21:21.400> a<00:21:21.480> lot<00:21:21.720> of<00:21:21.840> coaches<00:21:22.200> out<00:21:22.320> in<00:21:22.400> the<00:21:22.480> world.

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Like,<00:21:23.120> there<00:21:23.320> are<00:21:23.440> many,<00:21:23.760> many<00:21:24.040> coaches<00:21:24.720> and<00:21:25.120> um,<00:21:25.400> so<00:21:25.520> when<00:21:25.720> we<00:21:26.120> need<00:21:26.320> to<00:21:26.400> hire<00:21:26.640> coaches,<00:21:27.200> we<00:21:27.560> we<00:21:27.680> post<00:21:28.000> a<00:21:28.040> job<00:21:28.520> and<00:21:29.000> uh,<00:21:29.160> we<00:21:29.280> usually<00:21:29.640> get<00:21:30.080> way<00:21:30.240> more<00:21:30.640> applicants<00:21:31.320> than

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we<00:21:31.560> know<00:21:31.680> what<00:21:31.800> to<00:21:31.880> do<00:21:32.040> with.<00:21:32.480> Um,<00:21:33.120> and<00:21:33.640> uh,<00:21:34.200> and<00:21:34.320> we<00:21:34.400> hold<00:21:34.600> a<00:21:34.640> high<00:21:34.840> bar.

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So,<00:21:35.720> really<00:21:36.320> again,<00:21:37.160> there's<00:21:37.440> those<00:21:37.680> credentials,<00:21:38.520> we<00:21:38.640> go<00:21:38.760> through<00:21:38.920> a<00:21:38.960> whole<00:21:39.160> interviewing<00:21:39.640> process<00:21:40.080> just<00:21:40.280> like<00:21:40.440> any<00:21:40.600> other<00:21:40.800> job.

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Um,<00:21:42.240> but<00:21:42.880> um,<00:21:43.280> yeah.

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So,<00:21:43.920> that<00:21:44.200> that's<00:21:44.440> kind<00:21:44.600> of<00:21:44.680> how<00:21:44.760> we<00:21:44.840> do<00:21:45.000> things.<00:21:46.200> What<00:21:46.320> do<00:21:46.400> you<00:21:46.480> read<00:21:47.160> and<00:21:47.360> what<00:21:47.600> reading<00:21:47.840> recommendations<00:21:48.600> would<00:21:48.760> you<00:21:48.840> have<00:21:49.080> for<00:21:49.280> us?

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Oh,<00:21:52.040> I<00:21:52.280> read<00:21:53.200> um,<00:21:54.080> I<00:21:54.280> actually<00:21:54.600> do<00:21:54.720> a<00:21:54.760> lot<00:21:54.920> of<00:21:55.040> like<00:21:55.280> podcasts<00:21:56.000> or<00:21:56.160> not<00:21:56.360> podcasts,<00:21:56.720> audiobook<00:21:57.280> listening<00:21:57.960> uh,<00:21:58.000> these<00:21:58.240> days.

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Um,<00:21:59.720> easier<00:22:00.080> to<00:22:00.160> squeeze<00:22:00.480> into<00:22:00.680> my<00:22:00.800> life.<00:22:01.520> Um,<00:22:01.960> but<00:22:02.880> you<00:22:02.920> know,<00:22:03.080> I<00:22:03.200> read<00:22:03.360> a<00:22:03.440> lot<00:22:03.640> of<00:22:03.760> things<00:22:04.200> about<00:22:04.800> like<00:22:05.600> about,<00:22:06.440> you<00:22:06.520> know,<00:22:06.640> humans<00:22:07.040> and<00:22:07.160> how<00:22:07.240> do<00:22:07.320> they<00:22:07.440> work

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and<00:22:07.800> why<00:22:07.920> do<00:22:08.000> they<00:22:08.120> work<00:22:08.280> the<00:22:08.360> way<00:22:08.480> that<00:22:08.640> they<00:22:08.760> work.<00:22:09.400> Um,<00:22:09.680> so<00:22:09.840> one<00:22:09.960> of<00:22:10.040> the<00:22:10.120> ones<00:22:10.360> that<00:22:10.480> I<00:22:10.560> most<00:22:10.920> recently<00:22:11.440> have<00:22:11.920> have<00:22:12.120> read<00:22:12.480> is<00:22:12.680> a<00:22:12.760> book<00:22:13.000> called<00:22:13.160> The<00:22:13.240> Body<00:22:13.520> Keeps<00:22:13.800> the<00:22:13.880> Score.

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Um,<00:22:15.480> and<00:22:15.680> it's<00:22:16.000> really,<00:22:16.320> really<00:22:16.560> interesting<00:22:17.080> just<00:22:17.280> to<00:22:17.880> hear<00:22:18.280> about<00:22:18.640> how<00:22:18.840> does<00:22:19.040> your<00:22:19.160> brain<00:22:19.560> and<00:22:19.680> your<00:22:19.880> physical<00:22:20.400> body<00:22:20.800> actually<00:22:21.880> process<00:22:22.400> stress<00:22:22.880> and<00:22:23.000> how<00:22:23.120> does

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it<00:22:23.400> impact<00:22:23.920> the<00:22:24.000> way<00:22:24.200> that,<00:22:24.560> you<00:22:24.640> know,<00:22:24.840> your<00:22:25.120> your<00:22:25.280> mind<00:22:25.600> and<00:22:25.720> body<00:22:25.960> function.

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Um,<00:22:27.320> that<00:22:27.480> had<00:22:27.600> gotten<00:22:27.800> recommended<00:22:28.320> to<00:22:28.400> me<00:22:28.560> by<00:22:28.720> another<00:22:29.320> CEO<00:22:30.000> and<00:22:30.320> and<00:22:30.480> it<00:22:30.520> was<00:22:30.680> really,<00:22:30.880> really<00:22:31.080> interesting<00:22:31.520> and<00:22:31.640> helpful.

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Um,<00:22:33.360> you<00:22:33.440> know,<00:22:33.560> I<00:22:33.600> think<00:22:33.840> as<00:22:34.000> far<00:22:34.200> as<00:22:34.360> like<00:22:34.760> recommended<00:22:35.600> reading,<00:22:36.760> um,<00:22:37.480> I<00:22:38.640> I<00:22:39.160> I've<00:22:39.800> one<00:22:40.000> of<00:22:40.040> the<00:22:40.600> series<00:22:41.080> of

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books<00:22:41.440> I<00:22:41.520> think<00:22:41.800> are<00:22:42.160> that<00:22:42.320> has<00:22:42.560> changed<00:22:43.080> my<00:22:43.240> leadership<00:22:43.800> the<00:22:43.880> most<00:22:44.280> is<00:22:44.720> is<00:22:45.160> um,<00:22:45.440> Brene<00:22:45.760> Brown's<00:22:46.280> books.

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Like,<00:22:46.960> you<00:22:47.040> know,<00:22:47.120> she's<00:22:47.280> got<00:22:47.480> Daring<00:22:47.800> Greatly<00:22:48.200> and<00:22:48.320> things<00:22:48.560> like<00:22:48.720> that.

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And<00:22:49.640> you<00:22:49.680> know,<00:22:49.760> those<00:22:49.920> have<00:22:50.000> been<00:22:50.160> out<00:22:50.320> for<00:22:50.440> a<00:22:50.480> long<00:22:50.720> time<00:22:50.960> now,<00:22:51.280> but<00:22:51.440> I<00:22:51.520> still<00:22:51.920> come<00:22:52.120> back<00:22:52.360> to<00:22:52.480> them<00:22:52.760> as<00:22:52.960> like<00:22:53.120> a<00:22:53.200> really<00:22:54.080> important<00:22:54.640> foundation,<00:22:55.280> especially<00:22:55.760> for<00:22:56.040> the

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like<00:22:57.080> the<00:22:57.160> human<00:22:57.560> side<00:22:57.880> of<00:22:57.960> that,<00:22:58.320> you<00:22:58.440> know,<00:22:58.960> um,<00:22:59.200> spectrum<00:22:59.640> that<00:22:59.760> we<00:22:59.880> were<00:22:59.960> talking<00:23:00.280> about<00:23:00.480> of<00:23:00.600> results<00:23:01.040> versus<00:23:01.360> the<00:23:01.480> people.

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Like,<00:23:02.240> I<00:23:02.320> think<00:23:02.560> it's<00:23:02.720> a<00:23:02.840> pretty<00:23:03.280> good<00:23:03.560> playbook<00:23:04.120> of<00:23:04.520> how<00:23:04.840> do<00:23:04.960> you<00:23:05.920> really<00:23:06.440> listen<00:23:06.800> to<00:23:07.120> and<00:23:07.320> connect<00:23:07.760> with<00:23:08.040> and<00:23:08.120> empathize<00:23:08.680> with<00:23:08.800> the<00:23:08.880> people<00:23:09.200> on<00:23:09.320> your<00:23:09.480> team<00:23:09.920> and<00:23:10.200> and

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just<00:23:11.200> see<00:23:11.840> and<00:23:11.960> I<00:23:13.040> I<00:23:13.240> believe<00:23:13.560> that<00:23:13.720> if<00:23:13.880> everybody<00:23:14.840> practiced<00:23:15.560> more<00:23:15.760> of<00:23:15.880> that<00:23:16.200> and<00:23:16.400> and<00:23:16.560> practiced<00:23:17.040> a<00:23:17.080> bit<00:23:17.280> more<00:23:17.480> of<00:23:17.560> like<00:23:17.800> seeing<00:23:18.080> each<00:23:18.280> other<00:23:18.520> as<00:23:18.800> fellow<00:23:19.120> human

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beings<00:23:19.880> who<00:23:20.080> all<00:23:20.280> have<00:23:20.440> our<00:23:20.640> own<00:23:21.720> struggles<00:23:22.320> and<00:23:22.440> our<00:23:22.560> own<00:23:22.800> world<00:23:23.160> of<00:23:23.320> things<00:23:23.680> going<00:23:24.040> on<00:23:24.360> that<00:23:24.800> um<00:23:25.360> that<00:23:25.760> we'll<00:23:25.880> never<00:23:26.400> we'll<00:23:26.560> never<00:23:26.800> know<00:23:26.920> about<00:23:27.200> each<00:23:27.360> other<00:23:28.080> but

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just<00:23:28.400> like<00:23:28.560> appreciating<00:23:29.360> that<00:23:29.680> and<00:23:29.880> and<00:23:30.040> kind<00:23:30.280> of<00:23:30.400> giving<00:23:30.640> everybody<00:23:31.040> the<00:23:31.120> benefit<00:23:31.520> of<00:23:31.640> the<00:23:31.760> doubt<00:23:32.640> in<00:23:32.720> different<00:23:33.000> ways,<00:23:33.360> like<00:23:33.560> I<00:23:33.640> actually<00:23:33.960> think<00:23:34.240> that<00:23:35.040> that<00:23:35.160> would

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change<00:23:35.880> a<00:23:35.920> lot<00:23:36.320> in<00:23:36.680> in<00:23:36.840> work<00:23:37.120> and<00:23:37.400> just<00:23:37.600> like<00:23:37.760> in<00:23:37.880> society<00:23:38.360> in<00:23:38.480> general.

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And<00:23:39.200> so<00:23:39.920> um<00:23:40.120> I<00:23:40.520> I<00:23:40.600> always<00:23:40.840> try<00:23:40.960> to<00:23:41.080> find<00:23:41.400> ways<00:23:41.680> to<00:23:42.120> to<00:23:42.200> help<00:23:42.360> people<00:23:43.360> learn<00:23:43.720> practical<00:23:44.600> ways<00:23:44.920> of<00:23:45.280> of<00:23:45.760> navigating<00:23:46.320> that<00:23:46.560> and<00:23:46.640> I<00:23:46.680> think<00:23:46.880> those<00:23:47.080> books

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are<00:23:47.400> really<00:23:47.560> great<00:23:47.800> for<00:23:48.000> it.<00:23:49.480> Uh<00:23:49.840> finally,<00:23:50.280> we<00:23:50.440> end<00:23:50.640> every<00:23:50.880> interview<00:23:51.280> with<00:23:51.400> the<00:23:51.520> same<00:23:51.760> question<00:23:52.360> and<00:23:52.520> that<00:23:52.760> is<00:23:52.960> at<00:23:53.080> ceo.com<00:23:54.120> we<00:23:54.240> believe<00:23:54.560> the<00:23:54.680> chances<00:23:55.160> one<00:23:55.440> gives

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is<00:23:56.080> just<00:23:56.320> as<00:23:56.360> important<00:23:56.680> as<00:23:56.760> the<00:23:56.840> chances<00:23:57.280> one<00:23:57.440> takes.

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When<00:23:58.800> you<00:23:59.000> hear<00:23:59.200> that,<00:23:59.480> who<00:23:59.640> gave<00:23:59.840> you<00:23:59.920> the<00:24:00.000> chance<00:24:00.400> to<00:24:00.480> get<00:24:00.640> you<00:24:00.760> to<00:24:00.840> where<00:24:01.040> you<00:24:01.160> are<00:24:01.280> today?

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That<00:24:02.840> one<00:24:03.200> I<00:24:03.760> is<00:24:03.920> a<00:24:03.960> very<00:24:04.280> easy<00:24:04.560> answer<00:24:04.880> for<00:24:05.040> me.

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You<00:24:06.640> know,<00:24:06.720> I<00:24:06.960> I<00:24:07.040> mentioned<00:24:07.440> that<00:24:07.560> I<00:24:07.600> was<00:24:07.720> at<00:24:07.840> Salesforce<00:24:08.480> prior<00:24:08.800> to<00:24:09.120> joining<00:24:09.520> Torch<00:24:10.280> and<00:24:11.240> um<00:24:11.960> when<00:24:12.480> Brett<00:24:12.720> Taylor<00:24:13.240> became<00:24:13.640> our<00:24:13.920> chief<00:24:14.200> product<00:24:14.600> officer

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at<00:24:15.600> Salesforce,<00:24:16.680> um<00:24:16.760> you<00:24:16.840> know,<00:24:16.920> he's<00:24:17.160> now<00:24:17.320> gone<00:24:17.560> on<00:24:17.800> to<00:24:18.000> be<00:24:18.120> the<00:24:18.240> co-CEO<00:24:18.840> at<00:24:18.960> Salesforce<00:24:19.560> and<00:24:19.680> the<00:24:19.760> chairman<00:24:20.120> of<00:24:20.240> OpenAI<00:24:20.800> and<00:24:20.920> everything.

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and<00:24:31.280> told<00:24:31.520> him<00:24:31.680> a<00:24:31.760> lot<00:24:31.960> of<00:24:32.080> how<00:24:32.280> I<00:24:32.400> thought<00:24:32.600> we<00:24:32.720> could<00:24:32.840> be<00:24:32.960> working<00:24:33.360> differently<00:24:34.000> and<00:24:34.760> he<00:24:34.920> gave<00:24:35.160> me<00:24:35.280> the<00:24:35.440> chance<00:24:35.880> to<00:24:36.320> to<00:24:36.440> start<00:24:36.760> and<00:24:36.920> run<00:24:37.200> our<00:24:37.600> associate<00:24:38.200> product<00:24:38.600> manager

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program<00:24:39.800> at<00:24:39.920> the<00:24:40.000> company<00:24:40.360> with<00:24:40.480> him<00:24:40.760> and<00:24:41.440> um<00:24:42.040> if<00:24:42.200> you're<00:24:42.320> not<00:24:42.440> familiar<00:24:42.720> with<00:24:42.800> these<00:24:42.920> programs,<00:24:43.440> like<00:24:43.720> they're<00:24:43.880> about<00:24:44.240> bringing<00:24:44.520> people<00:24:44.800> out<00:24:44.960> of<00:24:45.080> undergrad<00:24:45.680> and<00:24:45.800> teaching

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them<00:24:46.280> to<00:24:46.400> be<00:24:46.560> great<00:24:46.920> product<00:24:47.360> managers<00:24:48.160> and<00:24:49.000> you<00:24:49.040> know,<00:24:49.240> I<00:24:49.440> had<00:24:49.640> never<00:24:49.920> been<00:24:50.080> in<00:24:50.200> one<00:24:50.320> of<00:24:50.360> these<00:24:50.560> programs.

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I<00:24:51.160> didn't<00:24:51.400> know<00:24:51.560> anything<00:24:51.920> about<00:24:52.280> creating<00:24:52.720> and<00:24:53.040> running<00:24:53.280> leadership<00:24:53.760> programs<00:24:54.240> at<00:24:54.360> the<00:24:54.480> time,<00:24:55.000> but<00:24:55.600> I<00:24:55.640> was<00:24:55.760> really<00:24:55.960> interested<00:24:56.480> in<00:24:56.640> it<00:24:56.840> as<00:24:57.000> a<00:24:57.080> concept<00:24:57.760> and<00:24:58.600> um<00:24:58.760> and

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I<00:24:59.000> told<00:24:59.240> him<00:24:59.320> I<00:24:59.600> I<00:24:59.720> wanted<00:25:00.080> to<00:25:00.520> to<00:25:00.640> lead<00:25:00.920> the<00:25:01.000> program<00:25:01.600> and<00:25:01.840> he<00:25:02.720> he<00:25:03.400> was<00:25:03.640> excited<00:25:04.160> and<00:25:04.320> and<00:25:04.600> welcomed<00:25:05.040> that<00:25:05.880> uh<00:25:06.000> that<00:25:06.240> hand<00:25:06.480> raise<00:25:06.840> and<00:25:07.160> and

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Really<00:25:07.520> gave<00:25:07.680> me<00:25:07.800> a<00:25:07.920> shot<00:25:08.360> at<00:25:08.680> doing<00:25:08.960> that<00:25:09.320> and<00:25:09.760> and<00:25:09.960> I<00:25:10.680> learned<00:25:11.040> a<00:25:11.080> lot<00:25:11.680> really<00:25:11.960> really<00:25:12.240> quickly<00:25:13.160> and<00:25:14.160> um<00:25:14.480> and<00:25:14.640> that<00:25:15.200> has<00:25:15.400> just

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Like<00:25:18.160> if<00:25:18.280> I<00:25:18.360> had<00:25:18.520> not<00:25:18.720> run<00:25:18.840> that<00:25:19.040> program,<00:25:19.480> I<00:25:19.560> would<00:25:19.720> not<00:25:20.000> be<00:25:20.640> sitting<00:25:20.960> here<00:25:21.160> today,<00:25:21.800> you<00:25:21.880> know,<00:25:22.040> as<00:25:22.240> the<00:25:22.480> the<00:25:22.600> CEO<00:25:23.240> of<00:25:23.360> a<00:25:23.440> coaching<00:25:23.800> company,<00:25:24.360> but<00:25:24.520> it<00:25:24.680> really<00:25:25.520> was<00:25:25.800> all

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different<00:25:34.920> ways<00:25:35.320> of<00:25:35.760> of<00:25:36.360> doing<00:25:36.680> that,<00:25:37.360> um<00:25:37.480> how<00:25:37.640> impactful<00:25:38.240> it<00:25:38.360> can<00:25:38.480> be<00:25:38.640> to<00:25:38.760> people<00:25:39.480> and<00:25:40.160> and<00:25:40.280> I<00:25:40.320> never<00:25:40.520> would<00:25:40.600> have<00:25:40.680> gotten<00:25:40.920> any<00:25:41.080> of<00:25:41.200> that<00:25:41.440> chance<00:25:42.120> um<00:25:42.240> if<00:25:42.360> it

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weren't<00:25:42.720> for<00:25:43.200> for<00:25:43.320> the<00:25:43.400> risk<00:25:43.640> that<00:25:43.760> he<00:25:43.880> took<00:25:44.160> and<00:25:44.320> and<00:25:44.480> letting<00:25:44.680> me<00:25:45.000> take<00:25:45.240> on<00:25:45.360> that<00:25:45.640> that<00:25:45.800> big<00:25:45.960> role.

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That's<00:25:47.160> incredible.<00:25:47.640> Heather,<00:25:47.920> thank<00:25:48.160> you<00:25:48.280> so<00:25:48.480> much<00:25:48.760> for<00:25:48.960> coming<00:25:49.240> on<00:25:49.320> the<00:25:49.400> show.

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Congrats<00:25:50.360> on<00:25:50.440> everything<00:25:50.880> that<00:25:51.000> you've<00:25:51.160> done<00:25:51.560> and<00:25:51.680> built<00:25:52.200> and<00:25:52.920> yeah,<00:25:53.080> what<00:25:53.240> an<00:25:53.360> honor<00:25:53.520> to<00:25:53.600> have<00:25:53.760> you.

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Yeah,<00:25:54.560> thank<00:25:54.840> you<00:25:54.920> so<00:25:55.040> much.<00:25:55.320> I'm<00:25:55.440> I'm<00:25:55.520> so<00:25:55.680> glad<00:25:55.920> that<00:25:56.080> we<00:25:56.200> got<00:25:56.360> the<00:25:56.440> time.

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Thank<00:25:56.920> you<00:25:57.000> for<00:25:57.080> all<00:25:57.160> the<00:25:57.240> great<00:25:57.400> questions.