Aileen Alexander Never Planned to Be a CEO

Aileen Alexander gets up before everyone else. Her team teases her about the hour, which she calls "O dark 30." That is an Army phrase. Alexander served on active duty as a Signal Corps officer after college, several careers ago. The phrase stayed.

She now runs DSG Global, the largest woman-founded executive search firm in the world. "Never thought about becoming and being a CEO," she said on the CEO.com Podcast. "But I have been drawn to leadership throughout my career."

After the Army came graduate school, then defense policy work at the Pentagon, then a staff job on the House Armed Services Committee. About 15 years ago she moved into executive search, first at Heidrick & Struggles in Washington, then at Korn Ferry, where she co-launched the firm's Global Cybersecurity Practice. "We recruit recruiters," she said. DSG recruited her.

The firm has its own strange history. In 1974, Judith "Judee" von Seldeneck invested in a small Philadelphia firm dedicated to finding jobs for women. It became Diversified Search Group, now DSG Global, a top 10 US search firm that reaches more than 30 countries through the AltoPartners alliance and has acquired seven firms since 2016.

Alexander wasn't looking for a job when it found her. She was taking stock. "I love doing client work and problem-solving and advising those clients, but I missed being in that leadership seat," she said. A call came about a firm she had long admired, less for what it did than for how. "A very values-based organization." Looking back, she sees the whole winding resume differently now. "Some of the learnings, some of the scar tissue, so to speak, that looking back was preparing me for this role in business."

For the firm's 50th anniversary, she and von Seldeneck wrote Deliberately Different: Fifty Years. Two Generations. Leading in a Changing World. Von Seldeneck started on Capitol Hill in the 1960s, against civil rights and Vietnam. Alexander started in the late 1990s. "We had this opportunity to reflect on our careers as well and what we've learned from them, but also what we're learning from one another," she said.

Her industry gets misread as transactional, she argues. "We find ourselves in boardrooms, we find ourselves working with CEOs and other leaders, and before we even get to the recruitment, we're often taking a step back to really understand what's happening within that particular sector or industry or with that organization." The work does not end at the hire, either. "Once we recruit a leader, we tend not to go away."

Her own path would have hurt her a decade ago. "Just 10 years ago from a recruiting perspective, if we saw too many pivots, too many moves, we started to second-guess that," she said. Now executives cross from industry to industry, from public companies to private ones, and CEOs rise out of HR, technology, marketing, and digital. "There's become more of an acceptance that that variety of experiences is what's needed to really stay nimble."

The same widening applies to AI. Curiosity about it no longer stops with the CTO, she said. It extends to chief marketing officers, chief people officers, and CFOs, who are now expected to bring "some sense of curiosity to understand what it is and what it isn't." DSG's research with The Harris Poll found 56% of leaders prioritizing data security and IP protection, and Alexander points to a second opportunity: upskilling leadership teams and succession planning with intention. She counts herself among the Gen Xers still wrapping her arms around the technology. Her teenagers keep her on her toes. "We are in the human business," she said. "The human skills still matter in this environment."

Every conversation on the CEO.com Podcast ends with the same question, built on the belief that the chances one gives are just as important as the chances one takes: Who gave you a chance?

"There's so many in my life, but I really do need to acknowledge our founder, Judee von Seldeneck," Alexander said. "It is not lost on me the impact that she's had, the barriers that she broke, and that ripple effect in leadership, and also in particular, what that means for me as a woman and as a CEO. And she made a bet on me, and I'm incredibly grateful to her for that."

00:00:00 Introduction to Aileen Alexander
00:00:32 Aileen's Path to Becoming CEO
00:01:00 Founding of DSG Global by Judy Von Zaldinich
00:01:49 Career in the US Army
00:02:12 Working in Washington, D.C.
00:03:50 Transition Into Executive Search
00:05:29 Deciding to Become CEO
00:07:18 Writing Deliberately Different
00:09:08 Unconventional Paths to Leadership
00:10:40 Leading in an Uncertain Environment
00:11:24 Essential Qualities for Modern Leaders
00:13:10 A Typical Day for Aileen
00:15:15 AI's Impact on Executive Search
00:17:27 Timeless Leadership Principles
00:18:49 Giving and Taking Chances

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It<00:04:29.475> could<00:04:29.571> be<00:04:29.716> a<00:04:29.732> financial<00:04:30.293> perspective,<00:04:31.015> a<00:04:31.096> cultural,<00:04:32.283> and<00:04:32.379> really,<00:04:33.166> you<00:04:33.198> know,<00:04:33.406> taking<00:04:33.743> a<00:04:33.759> step<00:04:34.145> back<00:04:34.786> to<00:04:35.043> think<00:04:35.348> through<00:04:35.733> what's<00:04:36.006> needed<00:04:37.017> in<00:04:37.258> terms<00:04:37.739> of<00:04:38.301> the<00:04:38.397> leadership<00:04:38.959> bench<00:04:39.617> or<00:04:39.825> what's<00:04:40.563> needed<00:04:41.109> in<00:04:41.269> terms<00:04:41.831> of<00:04:42.008> the<00:04:42.152> profile<00:04:43.372> of<00:04:43.532> that<00:04:43.772> next<00:04:45.054> leader.

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And<00:04:47.635> so<00:04:47.939> one,<00:04:48.484> I<00:04:48.500> think<00:04:48.821> we<00:04:48.901> go<00:04:49.077> beyond<00:04:49.446> recruiting<00:04:50.023> to<00:04:50.167> truly<00:04:50.904> being<00:04:51.289> consultative<00:04:52.667> in<00:04:52.811> terms<00:04:53.084> of<00:04:53.228> the<00:04:53.693> work<00:04:53.933> that<00:04:54.174> we<00:04:54.350> do.

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We<00:04:56.193> also<00:04:56.818> tend<00:04:57.219> to<00:04:57.812> not<00:04:58.036> just<00:04:58.261> be<00:04:58.357> in<00:04:58.501> and<00:04:58.597> out,<00:04:58.998> right?

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Again,<00:04:59.543> there's<00:04:59.719> that<00:04:59.959> perception<00:05:00.681> because<00:05:01.226> once,<00:05:01.867> particularly<00:05:02.267> here<00:05:02.908> at<00:05:03.005> our<00:05:03.165> firm,<00:05:03.630> once<00:05:03.886> we<00:05:04.046> recruit<00:05:04.431> a<00:05:04.527> leader,<00:05:05.473> we<00:05:05.569> tend<00:05:05.809> not<00:05:06.066> to<00:05:06.210> go<00:05:06.370> away.

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We<00:05:07.652> can<00:05:07.813> be<00:05:07.909> that<00:05:08.197> coach,<00:05:08.534> that<00:05:08.774> counselor,<00:05:10.842> and<00:05:11.018> just<00:05:11.242> that<00:05:12.060> trusted,<00:05:14.384> trusted<00:05:15.089> go-to<00:05:16.131> to<00:05:16.227> help<00:05:17.013> one<00:05:17.269> get<00:05:18.055> not<00:05:18.215> only<00:05:18.392> positioned,<00:05:19.113> but<00:05:19.209> perhaps<00:05:19.674> get<00:05:19.898> ramped<00:05:20.299> up<00:05:20.716> in<00:05:20.876> terms<00:05:21.133> of<00:05:21.277> a<00:05:21.293> new<00:05:21.517> role,<00:05:22.720> new,<00:05:23.201> in<00:05:23.265> some<00:05:23.441> cases,<00:05:23.762> a<00:05:23.778> new<00:05:24.002> industry.

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What<00:05:25.301> had<00:05:25.509> you<00:05:25.589> decided<00:05:25.926> to<00:05:26.006> become<00:05:26.246> the<00:05:26.326> CEO<00:05:27.529> and<00:05:27.689> what<00:05:27.849> was<00:05:28.010> that<00:05:28.170> process<00:05:28.651> like?

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Yeah,<00:05:29.853> I<00:05:29.869> mean,<00:05:30.478> I,<00:05:30.799> you<00:05:30.831> know,<00:05:31.119> it<00:05:31.232> was<00:05:31.360> about<00:05:31.616> probably<00:05:31.937> 5<00:05:32.322> years<00:05:32.562> ago<00:05:33.123> that<00:05:33.300> I<00:05:33.364> was<00:05:33.524> having<00:05:33.780> my<00:05:34.005> own<00:05:34.325> reflection.

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You<00:05:35.239> know,<00:05:35.367> I<00:05:35.464> talked<00:05:35.704> about<00:05:35.945> my<00:05:36.105> earlier<00:05:36.490> path<00:05:37.788> and<00:05:37.932> really<00:05:38.894> reflecting<00:05:40.016> on<00:05:40.513> where<00:05:40.689> my<00:05:40.914> core<00:05:41.154> drivers<00:05:41.635> sit,<00:05:42.180> my<00:05:42.276> motivations.

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I<00:05:44.280> love<00:05:44.537> doing<00:05:44.713> client<00:05:44.970> client<00:05:45.226> work<00:05:45.787> and<00:05:46.124> problem<00:05:46.524> solving<00:05:47.486> and<00:05:47.582> advising<00:05:48.368> with<00:05:48.592> those<00:05:48.769> clients.

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But<00:05:50.147> I<00:05:50.211> missed<00:05:50.676> being<00:05:51.093> in<00:05:51.253> that<00:05:51.558> leadership,<00:05:52.840> leadership<00:05:53.914> seat.

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And<00:05:55.421> so<00:05:55.806> like<00:05:56.046> everything,<00:05:56.607> you<00:05:56.639> know,<00:05:56.784> you<00:05:56.864> can't<00:05:57.329> perfectly<00:05:58.146> map<00:05:58.531> out<00:05:58.868> the<00:05:58.948> exact<00:05:59.493> course<00:05:59.845> or<00:05:59.910> what's<00:06:00.134> going<00:06:00.230> to<00:06:00.310> happen,<00:06:00.936> happen<00:06:01.272> next.

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But<00:06:01.817> as<00:06:02.058> I<00:06:02.138> was<00:06:02.314> in<00:06:02.474> that<00:06:02.651> reflective<00:06:03.180> state,<00:06:04.462> I<00:06:04.542> got<00:06:04.735> a<00:06:04.799> call<00:06:05.745> about<00:06:06.306> a<00:06:06.466> potential<00:06:06.963> opportunity<00:06:07.909> to<00:06:08.069> join<00:06:08.726> a<00:06:08.806> firm.

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Again,<00:06:10.249> that<00:06:10.393> was<00:06:10.634> at<00:06:10.794> a<00:06:11.676> really<00:06:11.932> interesting<00:06:12.333> inflection<00:06:12.894> point<00:06:13.375> in<00:06:13.535> terms<00:06:13.792> of<00:06:13.920> its<00:06:14.160> own<00:06:14.257> growth<00:06:14.641> trajectory,<00:06:15.555> transformation,<00:06:16.870> generational<00:06:17.287> opportunity,<00:06:19.213> and<00:06:19.309> quite<00:06:19.534> frankly,<00:06:20.577> a<00:06:20.609> firm<00:06:20.994> that<00:06:21.219> I<00:06:21.331> admired.

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I<00:06:22.133> mean,<00:06:22.278> I<00:06:22.294> mentioned<00:06:22.679> Judy<00:06:23.145> early<00:06:23.385> on,<00:06:23.867> you<00:06:23.899> know,<00:06:24.059> that<00:06:24.268> I<00:06:24.300> knew<00:06:24.765> for,<00:06:26.210> actually,<00:06:26.531> throughout<00:06:27.157> my<00:06:27.253> career<00:06:27.574> in<00:06:27.654> executive<00:06:28.071> search,<00:06:28.376> but<00:06:28.537> really,<00:06:29.018> really<00:06:29.259> admired,<00:06:30.222> not<00:06:30.479> in<00:06:30.623> terms<00:06:31.024> of<00:06:32.372> what<00:06:32.485> the<00:06:32.613> firm<00:06:32.870> does,<00:06:33.271> but<00:06:33.416> how<00:06:33.512> they<00:06:33.737> did<00:06:33.913> it.

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Very<00:06:34.796> values-based<00:06:35.903> organization<00:06:37.348> that<00:06:37.749> we<00:06:37.909> are.

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And<00:06:39.450> so<00:06:40.236> having<00:06:40.509> that<00:06:40.638> opportunity<00:06:42.178> to<00:06:42.339> lead<00:06:42.563> the<00:06:42.660> firm,<00:06:43.705> during<00:06:44.027> this<00:06:44.350> next<00:06:44.672> phase<00:06:44.930> of<00:06:45.075> growth,<00:06:45.640> this<00:06:45.882> next<00:06:46.430> phase<00:06:46.688> of<00:06:46.833> transformation,<00:06:47.978> while<00:06:48.284> all<00:06:48.397> staying<00:06:49.090> true<00:06:49.526> to<00:06:50.074> our<00:06:50.235> foundation<00:06:52.175> was<00:06:52.807> exciting<00:06:53.487> to<00:06:53.568> me.

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It<00:06:54.184> was<00:06:54.362> also<00:06:54.929> a<00:06:54.994> bit<00:06:55.285> daunting.

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It<00:06:57.736> also<00:06:57.996> wasn't<00:06:58.240> just<00:06:58.484> about<00:06:58.891> me.

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I<00:06:59.689> do<00:06:59.787> want<00:06:59.933> to<00:07:00.015> say<00:07:00.210> that.

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You<00:07:01.268> know,<00:07:01.577> we<00:07:02.066> build<00:07:02.293> out<00:07:02.473> teams<00:07:02.798> for<00:07:02.880> a<00:07:02.961> living.

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And<00:07:04.657> so<00:07:05.995> being<00:07:06.221> able<00:07:06.350> to<00:07:06.479> be<00:07:06.705> part<00:07:07.189> of<00:07:07.286> an<00:07:07.382> executive<00:07:07.995> team<00:07:08.253> that<00:07:08.399> would<00:07:08.495> be<00:07:08.657> doing<00:07:08.979> that<00:07:09.205> together<00:07:10.447> is<00:07:10.834> what<00:07:11.060> really<00:07:11.302> drew<00:07:11.415> me.

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Ultimately.

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And<00:07:13.276> what<00:07:13.500> led<00:07:13.757> to<00:07:13.918> you<00:07:14.078> and<00:07:14.142> Judy<00:07:14.463> writing<00:07:14.720> this<00:07:14.945> book<00:07:15.201> now?

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Why<00:07:16.421> is<00:07:16.565> this<00:07:16.726> an<00:07:16.822> important<00:07:17.191> time<00:07:17.368> for<00:07:17.448> this<00:07:17.608> book?

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Yeah.

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Well,<00:07:20.031> so<00:07:20.400> I<00:07:20.432> mentioned<00:07:20.817> that<00:07:20.962> we<00:07:21.042> celebrated<00:07:21.652> our<00:07:21.780> 50th<00:07:23.064> last<00:07:23.465> year,<00:07:24.091> an<00:07:24.332> incredible<00:07:25.792> milestone.

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And<00:07:27.557> we<00:07:27.701> wanted<00:07:27.958> to<00:07:28.118> recognize<00:07:28.857> our<00:07:28.985> clients<00:07:29.643> and<00:07:29.723> our<00:07:29.883> colleagues,<00:07:30.686> past<00:07:31.071> and<00:07:31.167> present.

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But<00:07:32.531> we<00:07:32.756> also<00:07:33.077> wanted<00:07:33.333> to<00:07:33.430> reflect<00:07:34.200> on<00:07:34.360> what<00:07:34.537> we've<00:07:34.697> seen<00:07:35.724> in<00:07:35.821> terms<00:07:36.206> of<00:07:36.543> leadership<00:07:37.345> over<00:07:37.521> these<00:07:37.746> last<00:07:38.709> 5<00:07:38.950> decades.

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And<00:07:41.114> it<00:07:41.259> gave<00:07:41.579> us<00:07:41.675> an<00:07:41.820> opportunity<00:07:42.637> to<00:07:42.781> really<00:07:43.038> step<00:07:43.358> back<00:07:45.202> and<00:07:45.346> really<00:07:45.603> reflect<00:07:46.019> upon<00:07:46.404> and<00:07:46.484> share<00:07:46.885> with<00:07:47.190> others<00:07:48.793> what<00:07:48.953> we've<00:07:49.129> seen<00:07:49.434> in<00:07:49.530> terms<00:07:49.995> of<00:07:50.155> those<00:07:50.412> enduring<00:07:51.213> leadership<00:07:51.694> principles,<00:07:53.217> but<00:07:53.441> also<00:07:54.259> what<00:07:54.419> are<00:07:54.515> the<00:07:54.660> evolving<00:07:55.141> practices.

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I<00:07:56.263> think<00:07:56.487> we<00:07:56.647> could<00:07:56.808> all<00:07:56.984> agree<00:07:58.026> that<00:07:58.507> the<00:07:58.667> broader<00:07:59.228> environment<00:08:00.030> in<00:08:00.110> which<00:08:00.350> people<00:08:00.687> are<00:08:00.815> leading<00:08:01.953> is<00:08:02.098> changing.

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I<00:08:03.300> think<00:08:03.412> it's<00:08:03.556> been<00:08:03.717> said<00:08:04.118> by<00:08:04.614> many<00:08:04.983> others<00:08:05.464> that<00:08:05.624> the<00:08:05.705> one<00:08:05.945> thing<00:08:06.682> that<00:08:06.859> is<00:08:07.564> certain<00:08:08.045> is<00:08:08.269> uncertainty<00:08:09.648> right<00:08:09.888> now.

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And<00:08:10.546> so,<00:08:11.011> so<00:08:11.235> we<00:08:11.315> had<00:08:11.427> that<00:08:11.812> that<00:08:12.117> opportunity<00:08:13.495> to<00:08:14.040> reflect,<00:08:14.681> but<00:08:14.842> also<00:08:15.162> share<00:08:15.659> some<00:08:15.900> insights<00:08:16.300> and<00:08:16.445> perspectives<00:08:17.759> for<00:08:18.465> really<00:08:18.689> with<00:08:18.865> those<00:08:19.106> leaders<00:08:19.506> who<00:08:19.587> are<00:08:19.907> in<00:08:19.987> some<00:08:20.148> cases<00:08:20.548> leading<00:08:20.853> for<00:08:21.510> the<00:08:21.590> first<00:08:21.911> time.

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It<00:08:23.450> was<00:08:23.658> also<00:08:24.620> us<00:08:24.716> reflecting<00:08:25.341> generationally.

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You<00:08:26.175> mentioned<00:08:26.560> that<00:08:26.784> at<00:08:26.880> the<00:08:27.425> onset<00:08:27.922> there.

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Judy<00:08:29.189> and<00:08:30.311> I<00:08:30.792> have<00:08:30.968> two<00:08:31.273> very<00:08:32.170> different<00:08:32.555> career<00:08:32.892> paths.

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We<00:08:34.575> started<00:08:34.960> at<00:08:35.056> different<00:08:36.018> times.

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Judy<00:08:36.739> in<00:08:36.883> the<00:08:36.915> '70s<00:08:37.765> with<00:08:37.845> the<00:08:37.941> backdrop<00:08:38.807> of<00:08:39.079> civil<00:08:39.384> rights<00:08:40.811> and<00:08:41.211> coming<00:08:41.468> through<00:08:41.708> Vietnam.

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Careers<00:08:43.664> starting<00:08:44.674> in<00:08:44.754> the<00:08:44.834> sort<00:08:45.059> of<00:08:45.139> late<00:08:45.379> '90s<00:08:46.822> onward.

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And<00:08:48.601> so<00:08:49.162> we<00:08:49.387> had<00:08:49.563> this<00:08:49.787> opportunity<00:08:50.204> to<00:08:50.284> reflect<00:08:50.829> on<00:08:51.006> our<00:08:51.166> careers<00:08:51.631> as<00:08:51.807> well<00:08:52.689> and<00:08:52.833> what<00:08:52.993> we've<00:08:53.186> learned<00:08:53.410> from<00:08:53.651> them,<00:08:53.811> but<00:08:54.051> also<00:08:54.292> what<00:08:54.452> we're<00:08:54.613> learning<00:08:55.238> from<00:08:55.959> one<00:08:56.119> another.

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Now,<00:08:57.562> you<00:08:57.658> talk<00:08:57.915> about<00:08:58.219> these<00:08:58.684> unconventional<00:08:59.341> paths<00:08:59.726> of<00:08:59.822> leadership<00:09:00.287> in<00:09:00.383> the<00:09:00.528> book.

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Give<00:09:01.586> me<00:09:01.682> a<00:09:01.746> sense<00:09:02.131> for<00:09:02.547> the<00:09:02.692> unconventional<00:09:03.269> paths<00:09:03.830> and<00:09:04.295> your<00:09:04.471> path<00:09:04.792> to<00:09:04.936> leadership<00:09:05.737> and<00:09:06.315> what<00:09:06.459> people<00:09:06.699> can<00:09:06.860> learn<00:09:07.036> from<00:09:07.196> it.

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Yeah,<00:09:09.120> I<00:09:09.136> mean,<00:09:09.280> I<00:09:09.360> think<00:09:09.585> when<00:09:09.681> you<00:09:09.825> look<00:09:10.001> back<00:09:10.723> a<00:09:10.803> few<00:09:11.108> years<00:09:11.380> ago,<00:09:12.005> I<00:09:12.069> think<00:09:12.182> it<00:09:12.246> was<00:09:12.422> more<00:09:12.711> common<00:09:13.352> for<00:09:13.608> one<00:09:14.073> to<00:09:14.185> stay<00:09:14.971> in<00:09:15.131> one<00:09:15.372> industry<00:09:16.349> or<00:09:16.494> to<00:09:16.574> stay<00:09:17.215> within<00:09:17.680> one<00:09:18.001> company<00:09:19.075> or<00:09:19.235> organization.

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In<00:09:20.181> fact,<00:09:20.357> just<00:09:20.581> 10<00:09:20.742> years<00:09:21.062> ago,<00:09:22.168> from<00:09:22.281> a<00:09:22.409> recruiting<00:09:22.826> perspective,<00:09:23.563> if<00:09:23.707> we<00:09:23.787> saw<00:09:24.172> too<00:09:24.348> many<00:09:24.653> pivots,<00:09:25.134> too<00:09:25.230> many<00:09:25.471> moves,<00:09:26.112> we<00:09:26.208> started<00:09:27.074> to<00:09:27.250> second-guess<00:09:27.955> that.

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You<00:09:29.382> fast<00:09:29.879> forward<00:09:30.937> nowadays,<00:09:32.668> you<00:09:32.748> know,<00:09:33.085> not<00:09:33.309> only<00:09:33.486> are<00:09:33.630> we<00:09:33.726> seeing<00:09:34.207> executives<00:09:35.008> move<00:09:35.329> from<00:09:35.570> one<00:09:35.794> industry<00:09:36.451> to<00:09:36.692> another,<00:09:37.237> from<00:09:37.477> for-profit<00:09:38.198> to<00:09:38.295> nonprofit,<00:09:39.866> we're<00:09:40.138> seeing<00:09:40.459> moves<00:09:41.421> of<00:09:41.501> executives<00:09:42.126> move<00:09:42.302> from<00:09:42.543> public<00:09:42.959> to<00:09:43.104> private<00:09:44.546> companies.

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We're<00:09:45.107> seeing<00:09:45.829> individuals<00:09:46.550> in<00:09:46.694> terms<00:09:46.935> of<00:09:46.967> their<00:09:47.191> own<00:09:47.240> own<00:09:47.416> path<00:09:47.899> to<00:09:48.059> leadership<00:09:48.638> or<00:09:48.702> to<00:09:48.863> the<00:09:48.895> CEO<00:09:49.442> ranks<00:09:50.889> come<00:09:51.194> from<00:09:51.596> HR,<00:09:52.095> come<00:09:52.400> from<00:09:52.641> technology,<00:09:53.606> come<00:09:53.847> from<00:09:54.024> marketing,<00:09:54.811> come<00:09:54.988> from<00:09:55.213> digital.

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And<00:09:57.001> so<00:09:57.981> a<00:09:57.997> lot,<00:09:58.720> a<00:09:58.864> lot<00:09:59.057> has<00:09:59.282> changed.

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And<00:10:00.069> I<00:10:00.246> think<00:10:00.487> there's<00:10:00.728> become<00:10:01.772> more<00:10:01.933> of<00:10:02.030> an<00:10:02.158> acceptance<00:10:02.897> that<00:10:03.122> that<00:10:03.379> variety<00:10:04.102> of<00:10:04.279> experiences<00:10:05.934> is<00:10:06.030> what's<00:10:06.320> needed<00:10:06.838> to<00:10:08.849> really<00:10:09.108> stay<00:10:09.433> nimble,<00:10:11.233> to<00:10:12.514> bring<00:10:12.838> fresh<00:10:13.243> perspective.

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To<00:10:15.487> organizations<00:10:16.291> today.

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So<00:10:18.541> a<00:10:18.605> lot<00:10:18.782> has<00:10:18.926> changed.

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I<00:10:19.569> want<00:10:19.697> to<00:10:19.746> be<00:10:19.890> clear,<00:10:20.147> Clint,<00:10:20.533> I<00:10:20.549> didn't<00:10:20.710> start<00:10:21.095> out<00:10:21.353> thinking<00:10:21.658> I<00:10:21.738> was<00:10:21.835> going<00:10:21.947> to<00:10:22.076> pursue<00:10:23.104> some<00:10:23.345> unconventional<00:10:24.165> path.

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I<00:10:24.727> just<00:10:24.952> was<00:10:25.113> always<00:10:25.450> following<00:10:26.013> my<00:10:26.254> path<00:10:26.736> or<00:10:27.700> what<00:10:27.860> I<00:10:27.941> thought<00:10:28.246> was<00:10:28.648> my<00:10:28.905> true<00:10:29.146> north.

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But<00:10:29.853> even<00:10:30.030> I<00:10:30.174> reflect<00:10:30.656> back<00:10:31.315> and<00:10:31.460> think<00:10:31.572> about<00:10:32.617> some<00:10:32.922> of<00:10:32.954> the<00:10:33.067> learnings,<00:10:33.565> some<00:10:33.742> of<00:10:33.806> the<00:10:33.886> scar<00:10:34.208> tissue,<00:10:34.609> so<00:10:34.850> to<00:10:34.915> speak,<00:10:35.975> that<00:10:36.618> looking<00:10:36.923> back<00:10:37.180> was<00:10:37.421> preparing<00:10:37.968> me<00:10:38.144> for<00:10:38.305> this<00:10:38.530> role<00:10:38.771> in<00:10:38.868> business.

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So<00:10:40.152> thinking<00:10:40.457> about<00:10:40.714> today's<00:10:41.099> environment,<00:10:41.677> which<00:10:41.901> is<00:10:42.639> expect<00:10:43.201> the<00:10:43.426> unexpected<00:10:44.388> and<00:10:44.870> no<00:10:45.030> one<00:10:45.126> knows<00:10:45.367> what's<00:10:45.528> going<00:10:45.720> to<00:10:45.832> happen<00:10:46.153> next,<00:10:46.635> and<00:10:46.875> AI<00:10:47.357> adds<00:10:48.319> a<00:10:48.335> whole<00:10:48.897> other,<00:10:49.763> you<00:10:49.795> know,<00:10:50.887> layer<00:10:51.223> of<00:10:51.464> complexity<00:10:52.828> beyond<00:10:53.213> even<00:10:53.390> just<00:10:53.566> like<00:10:53.710> the<00:10:53.855> political,<00:10:54.352> geopolitical,<00:10:55.540> all<00:10:55.636> that<00:10:55.796> type<00:10:56.037> of<00:10:56.101> stuff,<00:10:56.374> right?

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Like<00:10:56.984> AI<00:10:57.176> is<00:10:58.123> crazy<00:10:58.668> and<00:10:58.765> who<00:10:58.909> knows<00:10:59.069> what's<00:10:59.230> going<00:10:59.294> to<00:10:59.326> happen<00:10:59.567> tomorrow<00:10:59.968> with<00:11:00.144> it,<00:11:00.273> right?

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And<00:11:00.594> so<00:11:01.316> that<00:11:01.476> adds<00:11:01.653> an<00:11:01.733> interesting<00:11:02.615> perspective<00:11:03.113> to<00:11:03.193> this.

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What<00:11:04.140> do<00:11:04.284> you<00:11:04.380> think<00:11:04.621> in<00:11:04.765> today's<00:11:05.102> environment,<00:11:05.985> what<00:11:06.097> do<00:11:06.129> you<00:11:06.290> think<00:11:06.466> it<00:11:06.627> takes<00:11:07.268> to<00:11:07.429> lead<00:11:07.670> successfully?

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In<00:11:09.419> terms<00:11:09.675> of<00:11:09.820> AI<00:11:09.980> or<00:11:10.478> just<00:11:10.735> in<00:11:10.783> general?

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Just<00:11:11.264> generally,<00:11:11.746> like<00:11:11.922> given<00:11:12.307> everything,<00:11:12.644> given,<00:11:12.949> I<00:11:13.046> just<00:11:13.206> mentioned<00:11:13.447> AI<00:11:13.687> because<00:11:13.928> of<00:11:14.008> the<00:11:14.169> uncertainty,<00:11:14.650> but<00:11:14.891> given<00:11:15.196> the<00:11:15.292> uncertainty<00:11:16.640> of<00:11:16.801> everything<00:11:17.138> that's<00:11:17.298> happening<00:11:17.780> and<00:11:17.924> we<00:11:18.020> don't<00:11:18.406> know,<00:11:18.582> expect<00:11:18.983> the<00:11:19.128> unexpected,<00:11:19.625> like<00:11:19.786> you<00:11:19.866> said,<00:11:20.091> right?

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Like<00:11:21.374> what<00:11:21.471> does<00:11:21.631> it<00:11:21.711> take<00:11:22.032> to<00:11:22.113> be<00:11:22.273> a<00:11:22.337> leader<00:11:22.594> in<00:11:22.690> today's<00:11:22.995> environment?

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Yeah,<00:11:24.359> I<00:11:24.375> mean,<00:11:24.584> I<00:11:24.600> think<00:11:24.761> there's<00:11:24.921> a<00:11:25.001> few<00:11:25.242> things.

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You<00:11:26.028> know,<00:11:26.269> one,<00:11:26.606> I<00:11:26.686> think<00:11:26.847> to<00:11:26.943> be<00:11:27.408> in<00:11:27.794> terms<00:11:28.050> of<00:11:28.131> leadership<00:11:28.692> today<00:11:29.559> is<00:11:29.671> it<00:11:29.800> starts<00:11:30.201> with<00:11:30.249> somebody<00:11:30.522> who's<00:11:31.324> highly<00:11:31.581> self-aware<00:11:32.865> and<00:11:33.009> humble,<00:11:33.892> right?

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You<00:11:34.630> know,<00:11:34.726> you<00:11:34.775> have<00:11:34.935> to<00:11:35.015> operate<00:11:35.352> with<00:11:35.513> a<00:11:35.673> bit<00:11:35.898> of<00:11:36.074> humility<00:11:37.118> that<00:11:37.663> you're<00:11:37.727> not<00:11:37.920> gonna<00:11:38.080> know<00:11:38.626> everything.

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And<00:11:39.928> again,<00:11:40.233> having<00:11:40.554> that<00:11:40.715> self-awareness<00:11:41.598> around<00:11:42.482> not<00:11:42.659> just<00:11:42.819> what<00:11:43.044> you<00:11:43.076> know,<00:11:43.366> but<00:11:43.462> what<00:11:43.623> you<00:11:43.767> don't<00:11:44.024> know.

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So<00:11:44.571> you're<00:11:44.699> surrounding<00:11:45.229> yourself<00:11:46.675> with<00:11:47.318> team<00:11:47.543> members<00:11:48.185> and<00:11:49.246> really<00:11:49.471> creating<00:11:49.808> a<00:11:49.888> team<00:11:50.194> that<00:11:50.354> brings<00:11:50.611> a<00:11:50.692> variety<00:11:51.109> of<00:11:51.190> experiences<00:11:52.362> and<00:11:52.459> perspectives.

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So,<00:11:53.599> so<00:11:53.808> starting,<00:11:54.804> starting<00:11:55.254> there.

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Also<00:11:57.278> just<00:11:57.680> being<00:11:57.905> able<00:11:58.114> to<00:11:58.178> maintain,<00:11:59.110> you<00:11:59.142> know,<00:11:59.447> that<00:12:00.010> high<00:12:00.347> level<00:12:01.359> of,<00:12:01.536> you<00:12:01.600> know,<00:12:01.664> you<00:12:01.697> talked<00:12:01.921> about,<00:12:02.178> we<00:12:02.243> talked<00:12:02.403> about<00:12:02.596> adaptability,<00:12:03.689> but<00:12:03.930> really<00:12:04.267> being<00:12:04.653> comfortable<00:12:05.638> with<00:12:06.441> that<00:12:06.637> adaptability,<00:12:07.686> being<00:12:07.915> able<00:12:08.161> to<00:12:08.259> stay<00:12:08.603> nimble,<00:12:10.240> being<00:12:10.498> willing<00:12:10.999> to<00:12:11.322> pivot<00:12:12.032> and<00:12:12.129> not<00:12:12.290> stay<00:12:12.549> static.

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Really,<00:12:14.535> really<00:12:14.697> important.

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Third<00:12:16.953> thing<00:12:17.195> is,<00:12:17.437> you<00:12:17.518> know,<00:12:17.986> this<00:12:18.163> has<00:12:18.502> sort<00:12:19.357> of<00:12:19.599> stood<00:12:20.083> the<00:12:20.180> test<00:12:20.502> of<00:12:20.583> time<00:12:20.906> and<00:12:21.051> trends,<00:12:21.551> but,<00:12:22.342> you<00:12:22.438> know,<00:12:22.761> being<00:12:23.084> strategic,<00:12:23.729> being<00:12:24.020> forward-looking,<00:12:26.720> being<00:12:27.027> able<00:12:27.269> to<00:12:27.431> rally,<00:12:28.401> you<00:12:28.433> know,<00:12:28.805> others<00:12:29.242> around<00:12:30.907> your<00:12:31.085> vision<00:12:31.651> and<00:12:31.813> bringing<00:12:32.071> a<00:12:32.201> bit<00:12:32.314> of<00:12:32.459> inspiration.

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I<00:12:33.429> think<00:12:33.591> we<00:12:33.673> all<00:12:33.821> could<00:12:34.069> use<00:12:34.202> some<00:12:34.334> inspiration.

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Each<00:12:36.693> day<00:12:37.902> also<00:12:39.288> is<00:12:39.449> really,<00:12:39.852> really<00:12:40.029> important.

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And<00:12:41.367> you<00:12:41.464> mentioned<00:12:41.851> AI.

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I'm<00:12:44.688> one<00:12:44.849> of<00:12:44.994> those<00:12:45.220> Gen<00:12:45.558> Xers<00:12:45.881> that's<00:12:46.688> really<00:12:46.946> wrapping<00:12:47.269> my<00:12:47.430> head<00:12:47.494> and<00:12:47.672> my<00:12:47.898> arms<00:12:48.172> around<00:12:49.189> AI.

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And<00:12:51.060> it's<00:12:51.383> those—<00:12:51.706> my<00:12:51.867> teenagers<00:12:52.577> who,<00:12:54.045> they<00:12:54.206> keep<00:12:54.400> me<00:12:54.529> on<00:12:54.561> my<00:12:54.820> toes<00:12:55.096> to<00:12:55.242> stay<00:12:55.989> more<00:12:56.232> technical<00:12:56.801> and<00:12:56.882> digitally<00:12:57.401> savvy,<00:13:00.229> but<00:13:00.379> also<00:13:00.812> not<00:13:01.061> letting<00:13:01.311> go<00:13:01.494> of<00:13:01.561> the<00:13:01.644> human<00:13:01.977> skills.

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The<00:13:03.059> human<00:13:03.333> skills<00:13:03.639> still<00:13:03.962> matter<00:13:05.556> in<00:13:05.653> this<00:13:05.895> environment.

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So<00:13:07.909> what<00:13:08.070> does<00:13:08.231> a<00:13:08.311> typical<00:13:08.698> day<00:13:08.859> look<00:13:09.036> like<00:13:09.262> for<00:13:09.342> you?

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A<00:13:11.439> typical<00:13:11.923> day.

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I<00:13:13.133> wish<00:13:13.311> I<00:13:13.392> had<00:13:13.553> a<00:13:13.634> typical<00:13:14.037> day,<00:13:14.682> Clint.

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I<00:13:15.973> think<00:13:16.699> we<00:13:16.780> just<00:13:16.974> talked<00:13:17.119> about<00:13:17.345> that<00:13:18.216> uncertainty.

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But,<00:13:21.058> you<00:13:21.138> know,<00:13:21.607> my<00:13:21.784> day<00:13:22.769> starts—<00:13:23.156> I'm<00:13:23.253> an<00:13:23.399> early<00:13:23.705> riser.

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My<00:13:24.367> team<00:13:24.609> teases<00:13:25.078> me<00:13:25.401> that,<00:13:25.885> you<00:13:25.982> know,<00:13:26.159> I<00:13:26.224> tend<00:13:26.450> to<00:13:26.531> get<00:13:26.773> up<00:13:26.934> at<00:13:27.080> 0<00:13:27.177> dark<00:13:27.438> 30.

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So<00:13:29.460> I<00:13:29.623> do<00:13:29.802> like<00:13:30.047> to<00:13:30.193> get<00:13:30.438> up<00:13:31.025> before<00:13:31.498> others<00:13:31.840> so<00:13:31.938> I<00:13:32.068> can<00:13:32.182> ease<00:13:32.231> into<00:13:32.313> my<00:13:32.362> day.

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It<00:13:35.256> starts<00:13:37.013> often<00:13:37.351> with<00:13:38.302> reading.

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I<00:13:39.592> like<00:13:40.172> to<00:13:40.333> jump<00:13:40.655> right<00:13:40.881> into<00:13:41.929> the<00:13:41.977> news.

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I<00:13:43.700> like<00:13:43.783> to<00:13:43.832> have<00:13:43.948> a<00:13:43.998> sense<00:13:44.279> of<00:13:44.345> what's<00:13:44.577> going<00:13:44.907> on<00:13:45.751> in<00:13:45.916> the<00:13:46.082> world.

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I<00:13:48.896> use<00:13:49.122> LinkedIn.

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That<00:13:50.820> is<00:13:51.062> probably<00:13:51.968> one<00:13:52.065> of<00:13:52.129> my<00:13:52.291> favorite<00:13:52.760> apps<00:13:53.504> that's<00:13:54.231> out<00:13:54.473> there.

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It's<00:13:55.444> a<00:13:55.508> way<00:13:55.832> I<00:13:56.009> can<00:13:56.802> really<00:13:57.206> get<00:13:57.319> a<00:13:57.464> pulse<00:13:57.723> of<00:13:57.788> what's<00:13:58.014> going<00:13:58.273> on<00:13:58.353> with<00:13:58.580> my<00:13:59.016> network.

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It's<00:13:59.808> also<00:14:00.067> sometimes<00:14:00.778> a<00:14:00.923> bit<00:14:01.036> of<00:14:01.117> a<00:14:01.182> cheat<00:14:01.505> sheet<00:14:02.071> because<00:14:02.329> I'm<00:14:02.475> connected<00:14:02.944> to<00:14:03.057> some<00:14:03.154> great<00:14:03.234> thinkers<00:14:03.364> and<00:14:03.428> thought<00:14:03.477> leaders,<00:14:03.606> particularly<00:14:06.156> in<00:14:06.412> the<00:14:06.572> leadership<00:14:07.358> space.

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So<00:14:08.817> I<00:14:08.897> start<00:14:09.298> there.

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And<00:14:10.660> then<00:14:10.885> after<00:14:11.077> that<00:14:11.221> second<00:14:11.606> cup<00:14:11.798> of<00:14:11.927> coffee,<00:14:12.327> I'm<00:14:12.488> usually<00:14:12.985> rallying<00:14:13.546> those<00:14:13.786> teenagers<00:14:14.427> to<00:14:14.523> get<00:14:14.748> going<00:14:15.068> and<00:14:15.213> get<00:14:15.389> out<00:14:15.613> the<00:14:15.694> door<00:14:17.233> and<00:14:17.377> not<00:14:18.258> miss<00:14:18.916> the<00:14:19.076> bus.

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But<00:14:20.679> then,<00:14:21.080> you<00:14:21.160> know,<00:14:21.224> in<00:14:21.320> terms<00:14:21.625> of<00:14:21.657> the<00:14:21.785> rest<00:14:22.106> of<00:14:22.186> the<00:14:22.282> day,<00:14:23.324> you<00:14:23.564> know,<00:14:23.661> I'm<00:14:23.805> checking<00:14:24.206> in<00:14:24.430> with<00:14:25.087> my<00:14:25.312> team<00:14:26.129> here.

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I've<00:14:26.450> got<00:14:26.546> a<00:14:26.610> great<00:14:27.075> team,<00:14:28.373> great<00:14:28.614> COO,<00:14:29.335> CFO,<00:14:30.762> and<00:14:30.922> others<00:14:31.339> that<00:14:31.563> are<00:14:32.301> leading<00:14:32.862> our<00:14:33.006> different<00:14:33.327> practice<00:14:33.744> groups.

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So<00:14:34.529> just<00:14:34.705> getting<00:14:34.930> a<00:14:34.946> pulse<00:14:35.266> of<00:14:35.331> what's<00:14:35.507> going<00:14:35.811> on<00:14:36.709> with<00:14:36.869> the<00:14:37.014> business.

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I<00:14:38.473> still<00:14:38.873> love<00:14:39.579> talking<00:14:39.900> to<00:14:39.980> our<00:14:40.140> clients.

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So<00:14:42.224> we'll<00:14:42.721> spend,<00:14:43.282> spend<00:14:43.603> some<00:14:43.763> time<00:14:44.325> with,<00:14:44.629> with<00:14:44.806> our<00:14:45.030> clients<00:14:45.447> as<00:14:45.671> well.

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And<00:14:46.569> then<00:14:46.954> one<00:14:47.114> thing<00:14:47.211> I've<00:14:47.371> really<00:14:47.611> been<00:14:47.772> working<00:14:48.173> on<00:14:48.413> and<00:14:48.493> more<00:14:48.654> intentional<00:14:49.215> in<00:14:49.359> '25<00:14:50.818> is<00:14:50.962> making<00:14:51.299> sure<00:14:53.047> I<00:14:53.207> take<00:14:53.447> time<00:14:54.345> to<00:14:54.441> meet<00:14:54.730> with<00:14:54.906> other<00:14:55.211> leaders<00:14:56.590> and<00:14:56.750> really<00:14:56.975> have<00:14:57.151> variety<00:14:57.792> in<00:14:57.953> terms<00:14:58.209> of<00:14:58.273> those<00:14:58.514> leaders<00:14:58.835> that<00:14:59.011> I'm<00:14:59.155> missing<00:14:59.556> with<00:14:59.957> to<00:15:00.101> really<00:15:00.278> get<00:15:00.438> a<00:15:00.518> pulse<00:15:00.903> of<00:15:00.999> what<00:15:01.223> they're<00:15:01.320> thinking<00:15:01.737> about.

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What's<00:15:02.442> top<00:15:02.682> of<00:15:02.715> mind?

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What<00:15:03.260> are<00:15:03.404> they<00:15:03.709> dealing<00:15:04.125> with?

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How<00:15:04.991> are<00:15:05.087> they<00:15:05.248> navigating<00:15:07.237> you<00:15:07.334> know,<00:15:07.723> the<00:15:07.820> constant,<00:15:08.548> the<00:15:08.693> constant<00:15:09.178> change.

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And,<00:15:10.391> and<00:15:11.216> I<00:15:11.297> think<00:15:11.459> it's<00:15:11.604> really<00:15:12.106> important<00:15:12.995> to<00:15:13.545> have<00:15:13.707> that<00:15:13.950> connectivity.

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And<00:15:15.405> how<00:15:15.745> are,<00:15:15.971> like,<00:15:16.133> the<00:15:16.230> people<00:15:16.408> you're<00:15:16.571> recruiting—<00:15:17.433> I<00:15:17.450> just,<00:15:17.710> not<00:15:17.938> to<00:15:18.019> double-click<00:15:18.442> again<00:15:18.670> on<00:15:18.979> AI,<00:15:19.240> but<00:15:19.402> let's<00:15:19.630> do<00:15:19.744> it<00:15:19.776> because<00:15:19.972> it's<00:15:20.134> all<00:15:20.216> anybody's<00:15:20.541> talking<00:15:20.850> about.

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Give<00:15:23.174> me<00:15:23.336> a<00:15:23.352> sense<00:15:23.659> for<00:15:23.756> how<00:15:23.967> people<00:15:24.209> are<00:15:24.387> thinking<00:15:24.727> about<00:15:24.856> AI<00:15:25.438> and<00:15:25.584> the<00:15:25.664> people<00:15:25.923> you're<00:15:26.069> recruiting<00:15:26.570> and<00:15:26.635> the<00:15:26.796> leaders<00:15:27.281> and<00:15:27.864> how<00:15:28.041> they're<00:15:28.268> integrating<00:15:28.898> it<00:15:28.995> and<00:15:29.157> what<00:15:29.303> you're<00:15:29.400> seeing<00:15:30.046> just<00:15:30.451> in<00:15:30.548> your<00:15:30.758> own<00:15:31.017> industry<00:15:31.647> and<00:15:31.728> how<00:15:31.825> it's<00:15:31.987> being<00:15:32.213> used.

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Yeah,<00:15:33.986> I<00:15:34.002> mean,<00:15:34.163> in<00:15:34.291> terms<00:15:34.628> of<00:15:34.789> recruiting,<00:15:35.913> you<00:15:36.009> know,<00:15:36.234> we<00:15:36.330> saw<00:15:36.619> a<00:15:36.699> couple<00:15:37.101> years<00:15:37.422> ago<00:15:38.786> that,<00:15:39.605> and<00:15:40.006> it<00:15:40.151> wasn't<00:15:40.568> just,<00:15:40.873> I<00:15:40.889> mean,<00:15:41.050> some<00:15:41.307> assumed,<00:15:42.077> you<00:15:42.157> know,<00:15:42.254> people<00:15:42.495> recruiting<00:15:42.976> Chief<00:15:43.361> AI<00:15:43.699> Officers,<00:15:44.598> or<00:15:44.726> this<00:15:44.903> would<00:15:45.063> fall<00:15:45.384> within<00:15:45.769> the<00:15:45.802> CTO<00:15:47.311> realm.

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You<00:15:48.033> know,<00:15:48.194> we<00:15:48.354> definitely<00:15:48.916> saw<00:15:49.221> a<00:15:49.382> pivot,<00:15:49.992> not<00:15:50.586> only<00:15:50.842> at<00:15:51.228> the<00:15:51.292> CEO<00:15:51.725> ranks,<00:15:52.127> but<00:15:52.271> with<00:15:52.368> Chief<00:15:52.673> Marketing<00:15:53.074> Officers,<00:15:53.828> or,<00:15:54.454> you<00:15:54.615> know,<00:15:54.808> CHROs,<00:15:55.337> or<00:15:55.418> Chief<00:15:55.658> People<00:15:55.996> Officers,<00:15:56.702> or<00:15:56.782> even<00:15:57.007> CFOs,<00:15:58.291> the<00:15:58.388> importance<00:15:58.869> of<00:15:58.966> embracing<00:16:00.182> AI<00:16:00.764> and<00:16:00.909> at<00:16:01.006> least<00:16:01.249> having<00:16:02.138> some<00:16:02.478> sense<00:16:03.012> of<00:16:03.497> curiosity<00:16:04.871> to<00:16:05.033> understand<00:16:05.761> what<00:16:06.003> it<00:16:06.100> is<00:16:06.747> and<00:16:06.973> what<00:16:07.135> it<00:16:07.313> isn't.

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You're<00:16:07.733> not—<00:16:07.960> nobody's<00:16:08.219> expecting<00:16:08.591> you<00:16:08.688> to<00:16:08.849> be<00:16:08.995> a<00:16:09.060> technical<00:16:09.563> expert<00:16:10.066> by<00:16:10.294> any<00:16:10.407> means.

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But<00:16:11.447> we<00:16:11.609> did<00:16:12.827> see<00:16:13.785> that<00:16:14.045> shift.

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And<00:16:15.426> we<00:16:15.523> saw<00:16:15.750> that<00:16:15.913> pretty<00:16:16.156> broadly<00:16:17.630> across<00:16:18.398> industries.

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I<00:16:22.297> think,<00:16:23.004> you<00:16:23.037> know,<00:16:23.648> in<00:16:23.825> terms<00:16:24.211> of<00:16:24.452> our<00:16:24.565> industry,<00:16:26.060> we're<00:16:26.237> like<00:16:26.720> any<00:16:27.042> other,<00:16:27.379> that<00:16:27.685> there's<00:16:27.910> that<00:16:28.087> application<00:16:28.795> of<00:16:29.217> of<00:16:29.377> AI<00:16:31.080> that<00:16:31.241> can<00:16:31.482> perhaps<00:16:32.125> be<00:16:32.350> used<00:16:33.555> in<00:16:33.715> terms<00:16:34.117> of<00:16:35.820> more—<00:16:36.447> from<00:16:36.608> a<00:16:36.688> productivity<00:16:37.266> perspective<00:16:38.005> or<00:16:38.070> generating<00:16:38.552> some<00:16:38.873> operational<00:16:39.355> efficiencies<00:16:40.865> or<00:16:41.122> taking<00:16:41.427> on<00:16:41.588> some<00:16:41.765> administrative<00:16:42.488> tasks<00:16:43.612> so<00:16:44.576> others<00:16:44.882> can<00:16:44.978> put<00:16:45.203> their<00:16:45.380> energy<00:16:46.328> more<00:16:46.440> into<00:16:46.745> the<00:16:46.826> relational<00:16:47.388> part<00:16:47.950> of<00:16:48.095> what<00:16:48.240> we<00:16:48.433> do.

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I<00:16:48.692> mean,<00:16:48.918> we<00:16:49.144> are<00:16:49.241> in<00:16:49.386> the<00:16:49.467> human<00:16:49.806> business.

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So<00:16:51.099> a<00:16:51.115> lot<00:16:51.260> of<00:16:51.406> what<00:16:51.567> we<00:16:51.664> do<00:16:53.748> is<00:16:54.733> relational<00:16:55.783> and<00:16:55.945> is<00:16:56.106> human<00:16:56.672> in<00:16:56.738> aspect.

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So<00:16:57.264> it's<00:16:57.412> changed<00:16:57.707> on<00:16:57.855> that<00:16:57.937> front.

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But<00:17:01.454> yeah,<00:17:01.614> we're<00:17:02.000> like<00:17:02.176> any<00:17:02.337> industry<00:17:02.803> using,<00:17:03.863> you<00:17:03.943> know,<00:17:04.168> looking<00:17:04.425> at<00:17:04.569> how<00:17:04.666> to<00:17:04.810> utilize<00:17:05.549> AI.

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And<00:17:07.380> I<00:17:07.621> really<00:17:07.862> want<00:17:08.022> people<00:17:08.279> to<00:17:08.440> read<00:17:08.601> the<00:17:08.745> book.

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And<00:17:09.628> I<00:17:09.805> assume<00:17:10.207> it's<00:17:10.303> available<00:17:10.753> everywhere<00:17:11.154> there's<00:17:11.411> books<00:17:11.973> to<00:17:12.118> be<00:17:12.214> bought,<00:17:12.616> right?

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It<00:17:13.242> is.

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The<00:17:14.125> team<00:17:14.302> has<00:17:14.447> done<00:17:14.607> a<00:17:14.623> good<00:17:14.784> job<00:17:15.089> here.

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It's<00:17:16.454> out<00:17:16.615> there<00:17:17.097> at<00:17:17.257> Amazon,<00:17:17.916> I<00:17:17.996> think<00:17:18.237> Barnes<00:17:18.494> Noble,<00:17:19.441> and<00:17:19.586> it's<00:17:19.763> in<00:17:19.843> a<00:17:19.859> number<00:17:20.148> of<00:17:20.341> airports<00:17:21.610> and<00:17:21.754> train<00:17:22.011> stations.

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So<00:17:22.718> if<00:17:22.814> you're<00:17:22.959> on<00:17:23.039> your<00:17:23.216> commutes,<00:17:23.762> it's—.

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That's<00:17:25.207> incredible.

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Yeah.

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That's<00:17:26.845> very<00:17:27.134> cool.

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So<00:17:27.937> in<00:17:28.033> it,<00:17:28.129> you<00:17:28.257> discuss<00:17:28.675> timeless<00:17:29.541> leadership<00:17:30.102> qualities.

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What<00:17:31.786> are<00:17:32.043> the<00:17:32.187> enduring<00:17:32.604> principles<00:17:33.149> that<00:17:33.230> remain<00:17:33.566> essential<00:17:34.048> for<00:17:34.272> leaders?

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Yeah,<00:17:35.828> some<00:17:36.053> of<00:17:36.117> those<00:17:36.293> I<00:17:36.309> mentioned<00:17:37.400> just<00:17:37.737> earlier,<00:17:38.940> but<00:17:39.084> one<00:17:39.324> is,<00:17:39.581> again,<00:17:39.822> still<00:17:40.078> having<00:17:40.367> that<00:17:40.543> strategic<00:17:41.907> muscle,<00:17:43.270> the<00:17:43.366> ability<00:17:44.072> to<00:17:45.018> have<00:17:45.211> a<00:17:45.339> vision<00:17:46.061> and<00:17:46.157> to<00:17:46.318> inspire<00:17:46.863> others<00:17:48.547> around<00:17:48.820> a<00:17:48.884> vision.

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So<00:17:49.766> that's<00:17:50.087> really<00:17:50.408> the<00:17:51.290> first.

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The<00:17:52.974> second<00:17:53.375> I<00:17:53.455> mentioned<00:17:53.840> enduring<00:17:54.177> principle<00:17:55.283> is<00:17:55.444> that<00:17:55.620> willingness<00:17:56.922> to<00:17:57.019> adapt<00:17:57.504> and<00:17:57.650> pivot,<00:17:58.313> and<00:17:58.475> those<00:17:58.863> that<00:18:01.047> do<00:18:01.241> so<00:18:02.260> sort<00:18:02.438> of<00:18:02.519> quicker<00:18:03.408> or<00:18:04.130> faster<00:18:05.601> tend<00:18:05.779> to<00:18:05.860> beat<00:18:06.021> out<00:18:06.490> the<00:18:06.587> competition,<00:18:07.541> right,<00:18:07.800> in<00:18:07.945> terms<00:18:08.123> of<00:18:08.204> organizations.

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So<00:18:09.013> those<00:18:09.255> leaders<00:18:10.145> who<00:18:10.290> bring<00:18:10.468> that<00:18:10.646> forward<00:18:11.341> is<00:18:11.503> really<00:18:11.681> important.

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And<00:18:12.732> again,<00:18:12.910> the<00:18:13.120> third,<00:18:13.314> I<00:18:13.378> mentioned<00:18:13.766> it,<00:18:13.911> probably<00:18:14.104> didn't<00:18:14.266> go<00:18:14.427> as<00:18:14.588> deep,<00:18:14.894> but<00:18:15.007> is<00:18:15.216> on<00:18:15.296> those<00:18:15.538> human<00:18:15.812> skills.

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Those<00:18:17.068> are<00:18:17.165> timeless<00:18:17.890> in<00:18:18.035> nature.

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Being<00:18:19.404> able<00:18:19.581> to<00:18:19.662> show<00:18:19.968> a<00:18:19.984> level<00:18:20.322> of<00:18:20.451> empathy,<00:18:22.150> being<00:18:22.324> able<00:18:22.429> to<00:18:22.603> communicate<00:18:24.034> effectively<00:18:25.640> is<00:18:26.041> really<00:18:26.266> important.

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I<00:18:27.004> think,<00:18:27.711> you<00:18:27.743> know,<00:18:27.887> the<00:18:28.048> difference<00:18:28.514> is<00:18:28.610> when<00:18:28.755> you<00:18:28.835> fast<00:18:29.236> forward<00:18:29.638> to<00:18:29.734> today,<00:18:30.697> you<00:18:30.778> know,<00:18:30.938> we<00:18:31.099> could<00:18:31.420> have<00:18:31.741> a<00:18:31.821> conversation,<00:18:32.624> I'm<00:18:32.769> sure,<00:18:33.106> in<00:18:33.186> a<00:18:33.266> podcast<00:18:33.909> in<00:18:33.989> and<00:18:34.133> of<00:18:34.230> itself<00:18:34.728> around<00:18:34.968> the<00:18:35.113> different<00:18:35.434> modes<00:18:35.739> of<00:18:35.835> communication<00:18:37.907> and<00:18:38.003> how<00:18:38.244> leaders<00:18:38.645> need<00:18:39.304> to<00:18:39.448> navigate<00:18:40.090> that.

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But<00:18:40.588> the<00:18:40.717> fundamental<00:18:41.231> principle<00:18:42.162> of<00:18:42.338> communicating<00:18:44.089> and<00:18:44.907> being<00:18:45.213> transparent<00:18:46.353> and<00:18:46.433> maintaining<00:18:46.979> that<00:18:47.155> flow<00:18:47.300> of<00:18:47.396> communication<00:18:48.103> hasn't<00:18:48.279> gone<00:18:48.536> away.

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Finally,<00:18:50.125> we<00:18:50.350> end<00:18:50.590> every<00:18:50.831> interview<00:18:51.072> with<00:18:51.232> the<00:18:51.264> same<00:18:51.553> question,<00:18:52.275> and<00:18:52.371> that<00:18:52.596> is,<00:18:52.708> at<00:18:52.788> CEO.com,<00:18:53.719> we<00:18:53.896> believe<00:18:54.120> the<00:18:54.200> chances<00:18:54.618> one<00:18:54.922> gives<00:18:55.500> is<00:18:55.644> just<00:18:55.789> as<00:18:55.901> important<00:18:56.206> as<00:18:56.286> the<00:18:56.382> chances<00:18:56.784> one<00:18:56.944> takes.

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When<00:18:58.131> you<00:18:58.372> hear<00:18:58.484> that,<00:18:58.693> who<00:18:58.853> gave<00:18:59.030> you<00:18:59.126> a<00:18:59.190> chance<00:18:59.447> to<00:18:59.575> get<00:18:59.736> you<00:18:59.816> to<00:18:59.896> where<00:19:00.057> you<00:19:00.233> are<00:19:00.378> today?

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There's<00:19:02.078> so<00:19:02.239> many<00:19:03.025> in<00:19:03.522> my<00:19:03.683> life,<00:19:04.100> but<00:19:04.309> I'm<00:19:04.469> going<00:19:05.223> to—<00:19:05.432> I<00:19:05.512> really<00:19:05.769> do<00:19:05.929> need<00:19:06.266> to<00:19:06.876> acknowledge<00:19:08.095> our<00:19:08.176> founder,<00:19:09.539> Judy<00:19:09.780> Von<00:19:10.021> Zalmanek.

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It<00:19:11.705> is<00:19:11.802> not<00:19:12.026> lost<00:19:12.732> on<00:19:12.829> me<00:19:14.353> the<00:19:14.513> impact<00:19:14.914> that<00:19:15.075> she's<00:19:15.380> had,<00:19:15.877> the<00:19:16.021> barriers<00:19:16.519> that<00:19:16.744> she<00:19:16.920> broke.

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And<00:19:18.204> that<00:19:18.444> ripple<00:19:18.765> effect<00:19:19.231> in<00:19:19.327> leadership,<00:19:19.889> and<00:19:19.969> also<00:19:20.210> in<00:19:20.290> particular,<00:19:20.835> what<00:19:20.996> that<00:19:21.172> means<00:19:21.558> for<00:19:21.670> me<00:19:22.697> as<00:19:22.857> a<00:19:22.938> woman<00:19:24.366> and<00:19:24.703> as<00:19:25.008> a<00:19:25.040> CEO.

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And,<00:19:26.548> you<00:19:26.629> know,<00:19:26.725> she<00:19:26.966> made<00:19:27.126> a<00:19:27.254> bet<00:19:27.495> on<00:19:27.656> me,<00:19:28.458> and<00:19:28.570> I'm<00:19:28.939> incredibly<00:19:29.421> grateful<00:19:30.801> to<00:19:31.025> her<00:19:31.266> and<00:19:31.443> for<00:19:31.683> that.

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Eileen,<00:19:33.192> thank<00:19:33.368> you<00:19:33.449> so<00:19:33.673> much<00:19:33.834> for<00:19:33.994> coming<00:19:34.171> on<00:19:34.235> the<00:19:34.331> show.

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Seriously,<00:19:34.877> it<00:19:34.909> means<00:19:35.134> a<00:19:35.150> lot<00:19:35.358> to<00:19:35.438> have<00:19:35.679> you<00:19:35.759> here.

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Everybody<00:19:36.674> should<00:19:36.883> check<00:19:37.075> out<00:19:37.220> the<00:19:37.300> book.

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We'll<00:19:37.637> make<00:19:37.781> sure<00:19:38.006> we<00:19:38.166> link<00:19:38.343> to<00:19:38.503> it<00:19:38.552> and<00:19:38.664> promote<00:19:38.985> it.

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Thanks<00:19:39.707> for<00:19:39.803> coming<00:19:40.028> on.

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Really<00:19:40.445> appreciate<00:19:41.857> it.

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All<00:19:42.050> right.

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Thanks,<00:19:47.089> Clint.

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Loving<00:19:55.783> you<00:19:56.125> makes<00:19:56.533> the<00:19:56.875> stars<00:19:57.347> shine<00:19:57.934> brighter.

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Yeah.