The case for giving yourself away

A professor at Harvard Business School once told Joe Davis he wasn't smart enough to survive at Boston Consulting Group. Davis stayed 37 years.

He co-founded BCG's Washington, D.C. office, launched its U.S. public sector practice, founded its Center for Inclusion and Equity, and ran BCG North America before retiring from the firm in 2025. He remains a senior advisor there. The partner who gave him his summer offer had a different read than the professor: "You'll do really well here because you actually can connect with the clients."

"I'm no dummy, but I ain't the smartest guy in the room," Davis said on the CEO.com Podcast. "The way I'm gonna be most successful is by surrounding myself with people who are a hell of a lot smarter and ensuring they thrive as best they can."

That idea became The Generous Leader: 7 Ways to Give of Yourself for Everyone's Gain, a NYC Big Book Award Distinguished Favorite and Eric Hoffer First Horizon Award finalist. Davis wrote it with modest expectations. "I talked to one of my colleagues, and I said, 'Oh my gosh, Brené Brown, a million people read her book. What am I going to be?' He said, as a friend, 'Joe, if you move eight people, you'll make a difference.' Actually, I wrote it in hopes of moving eight people."

A generous leader, in Davis's definition, gives of themselves freely, without expectation of direct personal benefit, so others can grow and thrive at their full potential. He is quick to add what it isn't. "It doesn't just mean being nice. You gotta get results. No results, no job."

He borrows a line from Alex Gorsky, the former CEO of Johnson & Johnson: "The leader isn't supposed to have the best answer in the room. Their role is to get the best answer out of the room."

Davis learned some of this the hard way. At Procter & Gamble, his first job, he was a 25-year-old on the management track riding along with career salesmen every two weeks and saying nothing. He was scared of them. At the year-end review, he hid behind a piece of paper and read one of them everything he was doing wrong.

"About two minutes in, this guy named Rich said, 'What the blank, Joe? You ride with me every two weeks, and you've never said a damn thing.'"

His boss told him afterward to never again write a review containing anything the person hadn't already heard. Davis puts it more bluntly now. Withholding tough feedback because you want to be liked "is all about you. That's being selfish."

The book came out of COVID. As head of BCG North America, Davis shut down all 27 offices in the region, announcing it over video. Seventy percent of his staff was under 29, which meant almost none of them lived the way he did, in a house with enough bedrooms for four kids. He got a second-year consultant on a call and found him sitting on his bed. The apartment was so small the rooms blurred into each other. "One week, I get the bed, and my wife gets the couch," the consultant told him. "The next week, she gets the bed, and I get the couch."

"That wasn't the world I was living in," Davis said.

He watched other CEOs figure out the same period in public. Arne Sorenson of Marriott recorded a video for employees announcing furloughs and admitting he could not predict how long the crisis would last. Sorenson was bald from cancer treatment at the time, and he addressed that head-on too. Scott Kirby of United told Davis that his advisors begged him not to say he didn't know when planes would fly again. Kirby's answer: "What the hell do you want me to tell him, that I know when the plane's going to go?"

"Pretending you have an answer when everyone can smell BS ain't a good call," Davis said. "Now, why can't we be like that all the time?"

Davis is unbothered by the argument that AI will replace firms like his. He remembers a Fortune cover from two decades ago declaring big consulting dead, BCG's logo included. Research and analytics will speed up massively, he figures; the pyramid might shift, but interpreting data and driving change inside a company is relationship work. The librarian in BCG's Boston office was furious when Google arrived, certain the young people didn't know what they were doing. They learned.

What does worry him is a meeting he attended where the CEO appeared in two of three locations as a hologram. It looked real enough. "He was himself on that hologram, but that isn't real," Davis said. "There's going to be a lot of things that aren't real. The more you can be a real leader with your teams, the more they're going to want to follow you."

Davis traveled four days a week for 20 years. He has four children, eight grandchildren, and a wife, Sarah, he's been married to for more than 40 years. His kids claim he was never gone. His own mother, a divorced schoolteacher, made it to one junior varsity basketball game in his life, and he was mad about it until he was old enough to understand she was putting food on the table. So he got on planes to make 4:30 p.m. grade school skits and flew back to clients before dawn. He gave up golf for 30 years because it ate too much of the weekend. A couple of his kids and grandkids play now, so he golfs again.

Every episode of the CEO.com Podcast ends with the same question: who gave you a chance? Davis named Steve Gunby, his mentor at BCG and now CEO and chairman of FTI Consulting. "He was a tough guy, but all he cared about was you being better. He had my back. He pushed me."

And he named Sarah. Whenever a partner review left him stewing, she gave him the same counsel: "You get mad, and you're grumpy for four to eight weeks, and then you forget about it. So why don't you just forget about it now?"

"I said, 'Well, I want to be mad,'" Davis recalled. "She goes, 'I know, but just let it go right now.'"

00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:17 Why Joe Wrote The Generous Leader
00:01:41 What Is a Generous Leader
00:02:32 Joe's Leadership Philosophy
00:04:02 Joe's Career Journey at BCG
00:06:25 The Impact of AI on Consulting
00:10:02 Leadership and Personal Impact
00:13:27 Balancing Work and Family Life
00:17:14 Reading Recommendations
00:19:08 Challenging Leadership Moments
00:22:07 The Importance of Giving Chances

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I<00:02:55.844> mean,<00:02:55.940> I'm<00:02:56.165> not<00:02:56.918> I<00:02:57.286> mean,<00:02:57.367> I'm<00:02:57.463> no<00:02:57.687> dummy,<00:02:58.088> but<00:02:58.168> I<00:02:58.184> ain't<00:02:58.409> the<00:02:58.489> smartest<00:02:58.986> guy<00:02:59.210> in<00:02:59.242> the<00:02:59.387> room.

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And<00:02:59.948> I<00:03:00.092> learned<00:03:00.429> along<00:03:00.749> the<00:03:00.894> way,<00:03:01.775> ah,<00:03:02.128> so<00:03:02.497> the<00:03:02.593> way<00:03:02.769> I'm<00:03:02.913> gonna<00:03:03.074> be<00:03:03.218> most<00:03:03.378> successful<00:03:04.196> is<00:03:04.228> surrounding<00:03:04.757> myself<00:03:05.799> with<00:03:06.024> people<00:03:06.264> that<00:03:06.328> are<00:03:06.376> a<00:03:06.408> hell<00:03:06.504> of<00:03:06.537> a<00:03:06.601> lot<00:03:06.713> smarter<00:03:07.466> and<00:03:07.546> ensuring<00:03:08.284> they<00:03:08.508> thrive<00:03:09.326> as<00:03:09.486> best<00:03:09.727> they<00:03:09.887> can.

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You<00:03:10.929> know,<00:03:11.025> someone<00:03:11.394> once,<00:03:11.715> I<00:03:11.875> once<00:03:12.115> heard<00:03:12.516> Alex<00:03:12.837> Gorsky,<00:03:13.270> CEO<00:03:13.815> of<00:03:14.456> J&J,<00:03:15.097> the<00:03:15.161> previous<00:03:15.498> CEO,<00:03:16.380> he<00:03:16.476> said,<00:03:16.861> you<00:03:16.941> know,<00:03:17.342> the<00:03:17.502> leader<00:03:17.823> isn't<00:03:18.047> supposed<00:03:18.384> to<00:03:19.089> get<00:03:19.265> the<00:03:19.410> best,<00:03:19.810> isn't<00:03:19.987> supposed<00:03:20.291> to<00:03:20.612> have<00:03:20.788> the<00:03:20.868> best<00:03:21.173> answer<00:03:21.574> in<00:03:21.670> the<00:03:21.814> room.

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Their<00:03:22.552> role<00:03:22.728> is<00:03:22.824> to<00:03:22.888> get<00:03:23.033> the<00:03:23.113> best<00:03:23.417> answer<00:03:23.834> out<00:03:23.994> of<00:03:24.059> the<00:03:24.219> room.

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So<00:03:25.341> you<00:03:25.501> really—<00:03:26.142> so,<00:03:26.383> you<00:03:26.463> know,<00:03:26.559> over—<00:03:26.800> and<00:03:26.944> people<00:03:27.265> over<00:03:27.505> time<00:03:27.842> would<00:03:28.002> just<00:03:28.226> comment<00:03:28.643> to<00:03:28.787> me<00:03:28.964> on<00:03:29.028> how<00:03:29.220> well<00:03:29.445> I<00:03:29.605> connect<00:03:29.990> with<00:03:30.102> them.

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I'm<00:03:30.952> direct,<00:03:31.545> I'm<00:03:31.769> blunt.

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I<00:03:32.330> can<00:03:32.490> be<00:03:33.372> not<00:03:33.596> hurtful<00:03:34.013> 'cause<00:03:34.158> I<00:03:34.254> come<00:03:34.414> from<00:03:34.638> a<00:03:34.654> place<00:03:34.911> of<00:03:34.975> caring,<00:03:35.360> but<00:03:35.456> pretty<00:03:35.680> clear.

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But<00:03:36.097> they<00:03:36.193> said,<00:03:36.354> my<00:03:36.562> gosh,<00:03:36.883> Joe,<00:03:37.540> you're<00:03:37.604> always<00:03:37.925> helping<00:03:38.261> me<00:03:38.486> grow<00:03:38.742> and<00:03:38.822> develop.

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And<00:03:39.447> just,<00:03:39.864> you<00:03:39.960> know,<00:03:40.041> hearing<00:03:40.489> that<00:03:40.682> enough<00:03:41.051> over<00:03:41.291> time<00:03:42.493> and<00:03:42.573> seeing<00:03:42.894> how<00:03:43.070> people<00:03:44.593> helped<00:03:44.914> compensate<00:03:45.635> for<00:03:45.795> whatever<00:03:46.180> I<00:03:46.356> didn't<00:03:46.661> have.

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And<00:03:47.703> then<00:03:48.184> obviously<00:03:48.537> I<00:03:48.585> had<00:03:48.761> some<00:03:48.905> decent<00:03:49.114> success<00:03:49.963> is<00:03:50.124> probably<00:03:50.508> how<00:03:50.604> I<00:03:50.749> picked<00:03:50.909> that<00:03:51.085> up<00:03:51.230> over<00:03:51.470> time.

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Well,<00:03:52.672> give<00:03:52.785> us<00:03:52.945> a<00:03:53.009> sense<00:03:53.314> for<00:03:53.714> your<00:03:53.955> journey<00:03:54.340> your<00:03:54.532> career,<00:03:55.398> and<00:03:55.879> I<00:03:55.911> know<00:03:56.200> that<00:03:56.361> you've<00:03:57.355> since<00:03:57.740> retired,<00:03:58.462> although<00:03:59.115> I<00:03:59.135> don't<00:03:59.296> know<00:03:59.392> what<00:03:59.440> that<00:03:59.585> means<00:03:59.905> for<00:04:00.050> a<00:04:00.066> guy<00:04:00.226> like<00:04:00.547> you<00:04:00.948> to<00:04:01.573> retire.

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I<00:04:02.391> bet<00:04:02.536> you're<00:04:02.696> working<00:04:02.953> just<00:04:03.209> as<00:04:03.258> hard.

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That's<00:04:03.659> one<00:04:03.819> reason<00:04:04.140> I<00:04:04.220> wrote<00:04:04.412> the<00:04:04.557> book,<00:04:04.797> so<00:04:04.942> I<00:04:05.038> wouldn't<00:04:05.279> retire,<00:04:05.840> to<00:04:05.984> your<00:04:06.241> point.

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But<00:04:07.123> I<00:04:07.268> do<00:04:07.364> say<00:04:07.604> I've<00:04:07.701> retired<00:04:08.246> from<00:04:08.471> BCG.

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That's<00:04:09.433> okay.

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37<00:04:10.476> years,<00:04:10.716> you<00:04:10.796> can<00:04:10.909> say<00:04:11.133> that.

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Yeah.

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Tell<00:04:12.721> us<00:04:12.817> about<00:04:13.042> your<00:04:13.138> time<00:04:13.379> at<00:04:13.459> BCG.

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When<00:04:15.528> you<00:04:15.688> look<00:04:15.865> back<00:04:16.105> on<00:04:16.250> those<00:04:16.490> years,<00:04:18.271> what<00:04:18.495> lessons<00:04:18.912> do<00:04:18.977> you<00:04:19.137> have<00:04:19.394> for<00:04:19.554> those<00:04:19.955> who<00:04:20.180> are<00:04:21.062> currently<00:04:21.479> in<00:04:21.559> leadership,<00:04:22.570> Want<00:04:22.730> to<00:04:22.830> be<00:04:22.950> a<00:04:23.410> CEO,<00:04:23.630> leader?

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Well,<00:04:25.470> we<00:04:25.570> could<00:04:25.790> go—<00:04:26.530> Okay,<00:04:26.589> I'll<00:04:26.750> try<00:04:26.970> to<00:04:27.090> keep—<00:04:27.450> We<00:04:27.451> could<00:04:27.670> go<00:04:27.850> on<00:04:27.970> for<00:04:28.130> too<00:04:28.370> long<00:04:28.490> on<00:04:28.650> that,<00:04:28.950> Clinton.

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I<00:04:29.130> want<00:04:29.190> to<00:04:29.210> let<00:04:29.430> you<00:04:29.470> ask<00:04:29.670> questions.

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I<00:04:30.770> think<00:04:31.090> if<00:04:31.850> you<00:04:31.990> ask<00:04:32.110> me<00:04:32.250> to<00:04:32.330> look<00:04:32.550> back<00:04:32.750> on<00:04:33.010> BCG,<00:04:33.250> I<00:04:33.550> was<00:04:33.551> thinking<00:04:33.750> about<00:04:34.150> this,<00:04:34.610> 37<00:04:35.130> years<00:04:35.630> ago,<00:04:35.850> I<00:04:35.910> got<00:04:36.650> an<00:04:36.910> offer<00:04:37.330> for<00:04:38.110> a<00:04:38.190> summer<00:04:38.370> job<00:04:38.809> at<00:04:39.050> HBS,<00:04:39.710> summer<00:04:40.130> offer.

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Two<00:04:41.250> very<00:04:41.690> important<00:04:42.510> things<00:04:42.850> happened<00:04:43.090> to<00:04:43.370> me.

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One<00:04:44.050> of<00:04:44.190> the<00:04:44.191> professors<00:04:44.630> at<00:04:44.850> HBS<00:04:45.230> said,<00:04:45.590> "Oh,<00:04:45.810> Joe,<00:04:46.410> you'll<00:04:46.770> never<00:04:46.950> survive<00:04:47.390> there.

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You're<00:04:47.810> not<00:04:47.930> smart<00:04:48.230> enough."<00:04:48.770> And<00:04:49.470> I<00:04:49.490> got<00:04:49.491> a<00:04:49.650> little<00:04:49.830> bit<00:04:50.050> of—<00:04:50.770> I<00:04:50.771> won't<00:04:50.990> say<00:04:51.210> words,<00:04:51.610> but—<00:04:52.370> And<00:04:52.371> then<00:04:52.550> after<00:04:52.570> I<00:04:52.590> got<00:04:52.610> my<00:04:52.630> summer<00:04:52.650> offer,<00:04:52.670> it<00:04:52.690> was<00:04:52.710> also<00:04:52.730> this<00:04:54.582> Funny,<00:04:55.463> the<00:04:55.704> partner<00:04:56.008> said,<00:04:56.169> well,<00:04:56.265> you'll<00:04:56.425> do<00:04:56.570> really<00:04:56.810> well<00:04:57.067> here<00:04:57.211> because<00:04:57.531> you<00:04:57.692> actually<00:04:59.375> can<00:04:59.535> connect<00:04:59.856> with<00:05:00.016> the<00:05:00.096> clients.

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I<00:05:00.834> mean,<00:05:00.994> there<00:05:01.090> was<00:05:01.186> such<00:05:01.475> an<00:05:01.619> intellectual<00:05:02.196> group<00:05:02.453> 37<00:05:03.014> years<00:05:03.238> ago.

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No<00:05:04.521> offense<00:05:06.284> to<00:05:06.429> anybody,<00:05:07.326> but<00:05:07.711> a<00:05:07.791> little<00:05:07.968> bit<00:05:08.064> of<00:05:08.144> a<00:05:08.272> putdown,<00:05:08.689> but<00:05:08.769> a<00:05:08.785> little<00:05:08.929> bit<00:05:09.074> of,<00:05:09.234> oh,<00:05:09.394> I<00:05:09.491> see.

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So<00:05:10.372> my<00:05:10.837> superpower<00:05:11.494> is<00:05:11.655> now,<00:05:11.895> they<00:05:11.975> say,<00:05:12.841> was<00:05:12.937> connecting.

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But<00:05:13.803> the<00:05:14.123> reason<00:05:14.284> I<00:05:14.364> tell<00:05:14.524> those<00:05:14.620> stories<00:05:15.037> is<00:05:15.743> those<00:05:15.983> are<00:05:16.127> two<00:05:16.624> important<00:05:17.025> stories<00:05:17.490> where<00:05:17.570> someone<00:05:17.923> said,<00:05:18.131> hey,<00:05:18.372> you're<00:05:18.468> just<00:05:18.708> not<00:05:18.853> quite<00:05:19.173> good<00:05:19.269> enough<00:05:19.526> to<00:05:19.654> do<00:05:19.830> this.

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And<00:05:20.712> I<00:05:20.792> was<00:05:20.953> damn<00:05:21.193> well<00:05:21.353> gonna<00:05:21.578> work<00:05:21.834> my<00:05:21.995> rear<00:05:22.299> off<00:05:22.940> to<00:05:23.021> prove<00:05:23.165> 'em<00:05:23.357> wrong.

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Now,<00:05:23.918> maybe<00:05:24.175> they<00:05:24.319> would've<00:05:24.543> been<00:05:24.704> right,<00:05:24.960> but<00:05:25.120> I<00:05:25.201> do<00:05:25.441> think<00:05:25.665> if<00:05:25.762> you<00:05:26.227> ask<00:05:26.467> for<00:05:26.563> lessons<00:05:27.060> or<00:05:27.204> thoughts,<00:05:28.631> I<00:05:28.727> do<00:05:28.952> think<00:05:29.208> damn<00:05:29.513> hard<00:05:29.753> work<00:05:29.946> is<00:05:30.170> pretty<00:05:30.410> critical.

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Some<00:05:31.597> level<00:05:31.869> of<00:05:31.933> believing<00:05:32.270> in<00:05:32.318> yourself.

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You<00:05:33.312> know,<00:05:33.360> I've<00:05:33.520> already<00:05:33.632> said<00:05:33.921> about<00:05:34.097> driving<00:05:34.562> change<00:05:34.899> and<00:05:34.995> success<00:05:35.540> through<00:05:35.781> people,<00:05:36.742> and<00:05:36.822> then<00:05:37.127> we<00:05:37.223> can<00:05:37.384> get<00:05:37.560> into<00:05:37.784> this.

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But<00:05:38.249> I<00:05:38.345> think<00:05:38.570> as<00:05:38.730> a<00:05:38.826> leader,<00:05:39.451> in<00:05:39.532> a<00:05:39.548> lesson<00:05:39.932> I've<00:05:40.093> learned<00:05:40.333> over<00:05:40.590> the<00:05:40.654> years,<00:05:41.455> you<00:05:41.487> know,<00:05:41.712> the<00:05:41.872> best<00:05:42.193> leaders<00:05:43.058> are<00:05:43.218> always<00:05:43.699> asking<00:05:44.100> questions<00:05:45.302> and<00:05:45.463> listening.

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And<00:05:46.280> by<00:05:46.425> listening,<00:05:46.825> I<00:05:46.857> mean<00:05:47.306> learning<00:05:47.627> something<00:05:48.028> that's<00:05:48.268> in<00:05:48.428> your<00:05:48.685> head,<00:05:48.845> Clint,<00:05:49.406> that<00:05:49.550> ain't<00:05:49.727> in<00:05:49.807> mine.

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And<00:05:50.288> when<00:05:50.432> they're<00:05:50.544> in<00:05:50.673> both<00:05:50.865> of<00:05:50.929> our<00:05:51.153> heads,<00:05:51.795> we<00:05:51.891> got<00:05:52.051> a<00:05:52.260> your<00:05:52.372> answer.

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Everybody<00:05:53.496> I<00:05:53.656> interviewed<00:05:54.058> for<00:05:54.138> the<00:05:54.218> book<00:05:54.523> since<00:05:54.764> we<00:05:55.406> talked<00:05:55.663> about<00:05:55.904> that<00:05:56.000> was<00:05:56.209> so<00:05:56.450> critical<00:05:56.803> to<00:05:56.931> them,<00:05:57.268> you<00:05:57.365> know,<00:05:58.697> walking<00:05:59.099> the<00:05:59.179> floors<00:06:00.062> below<00:06:00.399> their<00:06:00.559> floor<00:06:00.945> and<00:06:01.041> talking<00:06:01.426> to<00:06:01.458> the<00:06:01.587> people<00:06:01.908> doing<00:06:02.149> the<00:06:02.245> work,<00:06:02.486> quote<00:06:02.711> unquote,<00:06:03.513> you<00:06:03.546> know,<00:06:03.690> engaging<00:06:04.252> with<00:06:04.412> their<00:06:04.557> organization.

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That's,<00:06:06.002> if<00:06:06.162> I<00:06:06.821> sum<00:06:07.206> any<00:06:07.447> lessons,<00:06:08.249> I<00:06:08.265> probably<00:06:08.651> have<00:06:08.747> a<00:06:08.827> couple,<00:06:09.213> but<00:06:09.309> one<00:06:09.550> is<00:06:09.774> really<00:06:10.818> asking<00:06:11.219> questions<00:06:11.878> and<00:06:12.022> listening.

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That's<00:06:12.921> gonna<00:06:13.082> be<00:06:13.242> one<00:06:13.338> of<00:06:13.403> the<00:06:13.467> most<00:06:13.644> critical<00:06:14.045> things<00:06:14.366> to<00:06:14.446> be<00:06:14.543> a<00:06:14.591> successful<00:06:15.169> leader.

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Do<00:06:15.875> you<00:06:15.971> think<00:06:16.132> that's<00:06:16.308> even<00:06:16.485> more<00:06:16.758> true<00:06:16.935> now<00:06:17.320> with<00:06:17.496> the<00:06:17.641> rise<00:06:17.962> of<00:06:18.123> AI<00:06:18.781> and<00:06:19.102> And<00:06:19.182> the<00:06:19.327> way<00:06:19.648> like<00:06:19.889> everyone's<00:06:20.242> talking<00:06:20.643> about<00:06:20.852> AI<00:06:21.189> and<00:06:21.270> the<00:06:21.430> things<00:06:21.655> that<00:06:21.735> it'll<00:06:22.056> replace,<00:06:22.650> like<00:06:22.859> it<00:06:23.180> can't<00:06:23.341> replace<00:06:23.678> what<00:06:23.823> you<00:06:23.903> just<00:06:24.063> described.

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No,<00:06:25.203> no.

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Well,<00:06:25.428> actually,<00:06:25.749> that's<00:06:25.942> interesting<00:06:26.231> because<00:06:26.472> I,<00:06:27.194> yeah,<00:06:27.451> I<00:06:27.516> mean,<00:06:27.997> asking<00:06:28.318> questions<00:06:28.752> and<00:06:28.880> listening,<00:06:29.442> one,<00:06:29.683> I<00:06:29.780> think<00:06:29.940> you<00:06:30.020> get<00:06:30.165> a<00:06:30.181> better<00:06:30.422> answer,<00:06:30.647> but<00:06:30.759> it's<00:06:31.048> also<00:06:31.449> actually<00:06:31.787> connecting<00:06:32.333> with<00:06:32.509> people,<00:06:32.830> right?

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And<00:06:33.617> connecting<00:06:34.018> with<00:06:34.115> people,<00:06:35.383> and<00:06:35.544> we<00:06:35.704> can<00:06:35.801> talk<00:06:36.106> about<00:06:36.282> this.

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I<00:06:36.588> have<00:06:36.684> some<00:06:36.909> views<00:06:37.150> of<00:06:37.246> people<00:06:37.551> even<00:06:37.792> more<00:06:38.113> than<00:06:38.514> maybe<00:06:39.269> in<00:06:39.397> Jack<00:06:39.719> Welch<00:06:40.056> days<00:06:40.537> or<00:06:40.634> the<00:06:40.859> IBM,<00:06:41.581> great<00:06:41.822> company,<00:06:42.207> white<00:06:42.448> shirt,<00:06:42.850> you<00:06:42.962> know,<00:06:43.187> blue<00:06:43.363> suit,<00:06:43.765> everyone.

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You<00:06:44.792> didn't<00:06:45.033> have<00:06:45.258> to<00:06:45.354> connect<00:06:45.676> the<00:06:45.772> same.

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Things<00:06:46.398> have<00:06:46.478> changed.

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We<00:06:46.832> could<00:06:46.944> talk<00:06:47.121> about<00:06:47.281> that<00:06:47.378> if<00:06:47.442> we<00:06:47.506> want.

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So,<00:06:48.469> and<00:06:48.726> AI<00:06:48.983> is<00:06:49.128> only<00:06:49.369> accelerating.

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I<00:06:50.172> mean,<00:06:50.252> it's<00:06:50.412> technology<00:06:50.990> that<00:06:51.135> caused<00:06:51.440> that<00:06:51.552> change,<00:06:52.018> the<00:06:52.098> BlackBerry<00:06:52.660> many<00:06:52.885> years<00:06:53.206> ago<00:06:53.479> through<00:06:53.720> to<00:06:53.865> everything<00:06:54.105> today.

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You<00:06:55.390> know,<00:06:55.615> AI<00:06:55.872> is<00:06:56.016> only<00:06:56.257> going<00:06:56.385> to<00:06:56.450> accelerate<00:06:57.172> it.

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And<00:06:57.686> that's,<00:06:58.039> I<00:06:58.200> realized<00:06:58.601> this<00:06:59.790> once<00:07:00.271> I<00:07:00.287> was<00:07:00.432> at<00:07:00.512> a<00:07:00.592> BCG<00:07:01.154> meeting<00:07:01.556> and<00:07:01.652> we<00:07:01.813> had<00:07:02.760> this,<00:07:03.178> the,<00:07:03.338> we<00:07:03.434> had<00:07:03.563> a<00:07:03.579> multi,<00:07:04.302> you<00:07:04.398> know,<00:07:04.526> 3<00:07:04.767> parts<00:07:05.040> of<00:07:05.088> the<00:07:05.169> world<00:07:05.425> meeting.

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The<00:07:05.827> CEO<00:07:06.244> was<00:07:06.389> in<00:07:06.533> one<00:07:06.774> place<00:07:07.513> and<00:07:07.641> his<00:07:07.754> hologram<00:07:08.380> was<00:07:08.492> in<00:07:08.573> the<00:07:08.717> other<00:07:08.974> 2.

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And<00:07:09.986> it<00:07:10.018> looked<00:07:10.162> pretty<00:07:10.483> real.

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It<00:07:10.885> looked<00:07:11.045> pretty<00:07:11.350> cool.

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It<00:07:11.752> was<00:07:11.848> amazing.

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But<00:07:12.908> it<00:07:12.972> wasn't<00:07:13.309> him.

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And<00:07:14.239> I<00:07:14.271> thought,<00:07:14.576> shoot,<00:07:15.041> if<00:07:15.153> a<00:07:15.217> leader's<00:07:15.570> supposed<00:07:15.778> to<00:07:15.923> connect<00:07:16.259> with<00:07:16.420> people<00:07:16.885> and<00:07:17.045> really<00:07:17.526> be<00:07:17.703> there<00:07:17.863> for<00:07:18.104> them<00:07:18.408> and,<00:07:18.745> you<00:07:18.825> know,<00:07:19.306> bring<00:07:19.547> their<00:07:19.691> humanity<00:07:20.269> and<00:07:20.349> show<00:07:20.573> their<00:07:20.670> humanity—<00:07:21.135> I<00:07:21.151> mean,<00:07:21.311> he<00:07:21.792> was<00:07:22.257> being<00:07:22.418> himself<00:07:22.818> on<00:07:22.915> that<00:07:23.075> hologram,<00:07:23.781> but<00:07:23.877> that<00:07:24.117> isn't<00:07:24.358> real,<00:07:24.903> you<00:07:24.999> know?

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So<00:07:25.545> it<00:07:25.625> says<00:07:25.946> all<00:07:26.106> the<00:07:26.202> more<00:07:26.443> to<00:07:26.507> your<00:07:26.683> point,<00:07:27.389> there's<00:07:27.501> gonna<00:07:27.646> be<00:07:27.806> a<00:07:27.822> lot<00:07:28.143> of<00:07:28.287> things<00:07:28.528> that<00:07:28.672> aren't<00:07:28.928> real.

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So<00:07:29.746> the<00:07:29.891> more<00:07:30.292> you<00:07:30.596> can<00:07:30.692> be<00:07:30.837> a<00:07:30.997> real<00:07:31.318> leader<00:07:31.575> with<00:07:31.799> your<00:07:31.975> teams,<00:07:32.440> I<00:07:32.457> think<00:07:32.697> the<00:07:32.777> more<00:07:32.954> they're<00:07:33.098> gonna<00:07:33.323> wanna<00:07:33.419> follow<00:07:33.804> you<00:07:34.285> and<00:07:34.686> all<00:07:34.782> the<00:07:34.942> benefits<00:07:35.343> that<00:07:35.423> come<00:07:35.584> with<00:07:35.744> that.

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When<00:07:36.610> you<00:07:36.851> think<00:07:36.963> of<00:07:37.043> a<00:07:37.107> group<00:07:37.364> like<00:07:37.572> Boston<00:07:37.909> Consulting<00:07:38.390> Group,<00:07:39.000> I<00:07:39.220> mean,<00:07:39.720> people<00:07:39.840> are<00:07:40.120> saying<00:07:40.380> like<00:07:40.580> something<00:07:40.880> like<00:07:41.220> AI<00:07:42.080> could<00:07:42.600> kind<00:07:42.900> of<00:07:43.019> replace<00:07:43.640> something<00:07:44.420> like<00:07:44.900> Boston<00:07:45.440> Consulting<00:07:45.960> Group.

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How<00:07:46.940> did<00:07:47.080> they<00:07:47.300> stay<00:07:47.520> competitive?

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I<00:07:47.861> mean,<00:07:48.000> how<00:07:48.100> are<00:07:48.240> you<00:07:48.400> thinking<00:07:48.680> about<00:07:49.040> that?

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What<00:07:49.820> advice<00:07:50.320> do<00:07:50.500> you<00:07:50.620> have<00:07:50.760> for<00:07:51.040> BCG?

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Well,<00:07:52.060> I'm<00:07:52.180> gonna,<00:07:52.780> since<00:07:53.000> I<00:07:53.120> love<00:07:53.320> BCG<00:07:53.840> and<00:07:53.940> I<00:07:53.980> was<00:07:54.100> there<00:07:54.200> for<00:07:54.320> 30<00:07:54.540> years,<00:07:54.780> the<00:07:54.840> first<00:07:55.140> statement<00:07:55.460> I<00:07:55.740> can<00:07:55.741> say<00:07:55.760> is<00:07:55.900> I<00:07:56.100> can't<00:07:56.400> remember,<00:07:56.560> it<00:07:56.580> was<00:07:56.581> 20<00:07:56.800> years<00:07:57.100> ago<00:07:57.280> on<00:07:57.500> the<00:07:57.501> COVID<00:07:57.760> of<00:07:58.340> Fortune,<00:07:58.960> the<00:07:59.080> days<00:07:59.400> of<00:07:59.640> big<00:07:59.820> consulting<00:08:00.320> are<00:08:00.660> dead.

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Our<00:08:01.600> logo,<00:08:02.280> McKinsey's<00:08:02.620> logo,<00:08:03.040> Bain's<00:08:03.220> logo.

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It<00:08:04.200> didn't<00:08:04.460> happen<00:08:04.780> then.

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I<00:08:05.300> don't<00:08:05.540> think<00:08:05.700> it<00:08:05.840> happens<00:08:06.060> now.

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Now,<00:08:07.492> To<00:08:07.732> your<00:08:07.893> point<00:08:08.213> though,<00:08:08.935> BCG<00:08:09.817> jumped<00:08:10.298> very<00:08:10.682> rapidly<00:08:11.179> on,<00:08:11.404> okay,<00:08:12.206> how<00:08:12.302> do<00:08:12.462> we<00:08:12.622> use<00:08:12.927> AI<00:08:13.408> to<00:08:13.568> do<00:08:13.697> our<00:08:13.889> job<00:08:14.210> better?

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And,<00:08:15.428> you<00:08:15.749> know,<00:08:15.909> maybe<00:08:17.416> a<00:08:17.432> lot<00:08:17.737> of<00:08:17.833> the<00:08:18.058> analytical<00:08:18.635> work,<00:08:19.661> well,<00:08:20.559> we'll,<00:08:20.960> we'll<00:08:21.521> just<00:08:21.697> speed<00:08:22.146> up.

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It'll<00:08:22.788> speed<00:08:23.108> up.

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I<00:08:23.445> actually,<00:08:23.830> we<00:08:23.910> used<00:08:24.022> to<00:08:24.070> have<00:08:24.247> libraries<00:08:24.968> and<00:08:25.433> the<00:08:25.529> librarian<00:08:26.090> in<00:08:26.171> the<00:08:26.267> Boston<00:08:26.571> House,<00:08:26.812> my<00:08:26.972> good<00:08:27.133> friend,<00:08:27.437> he<00:08:27.501> was<00:08:27.549> so<00:08:27.918> mad<00:08:28.159> when<00:08:28.335> Google<00:08:28.656> came.

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He<00:08:28.896> said,<00:08:29.057> these<00:08:29.281> young<00:08:29.457> people<00:08:29.842> can't<00:08:30.083> use<00:08:30.259> Google<00:08:30.484> to<00:08:30.580> do<00:08:30.740> research.

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They<00:08:31.462> don't<00:08:31.622> know<00:08:31.782> what<00:08:31.943> they're<00:08:32.167> doing.

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You<00:08:32.921> know,<00:08:33.001> it's<00:08:33.129> the<00:08:33.209> same<00:08:33.690> thing<00:08:33.931> now.

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They<00:08:34.508> learned<00:08:34.797> how<00:08:34.909> to<00:08:34.989> use<00:08:35.310> it.

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So,<00:08:36.592> Research,<00:08:37.394> analytics,<00:08:38.356> getting<00:08:38.757> data,<00:08:39.319> that<00:08:39.543> will<00:08:39.639> speed<00:08:40.024> up<00:08:40.121> massively.

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A<00:08:41.404> human—<00:08:42.831> well,<00:08:43.713> I'm<00:08:43.889> not—<00:08:44.274> let's<00:08:44.836> not<00:08:45.012> talk<00:08:45.076> about<00:08:45.253> whether<00:08:45.493> robots<00:08:45.974> or<00:08:46.038> computers<00:08:46.375> take<00:08:46.600> over<00:08:46.776> the<00:08:46.856> world,<00:08:47.161> that's<00:08:47.337> a<00:08:47.418> different<00:08:47.818> thing.

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But<00:08:48.284> a<00:08:48.364> human<00:08:48.701> interpreting<00:08:49.262> that<00:08:49.502> data<00:08:50.705> is<00:08:50.866> something<00:08:51.250> different.

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Putting<00:08:51.828> judgment<00:08:52.309> against<00:08:52.646> it,<00:08:52.774> especially<00:08:53.496> in<00:08:53.576> the<00:08:53.672> context<00:08:54.153> of<00:08:54.185> consulting,<00:08:54.875> which<00:08:55.115> is<00:08:55.901> relationship,<00:08:56.703> you<00:08:56.735> know,<00:08:56.880> actually<00:08:57.184> helping<00:08:57.986> drive<00:08:58.307> change<00:08:58.708> in<00:08:58.868> companies,<00:08:59.911> that<00:09:00.023> doesn't<00:09:00.328> come<00:09:00.648> from<00:09:00.873> what<00:09:01.033> you<00:09:01.130> study<00:09:01.595> in<00:09:02.156> AI<00:09:02.477> or<00:09:02.574> in<00:09:02.718> the<00:09:02.814> Google,<00:09:03.136> that<00:09:03.376> comes<00:09:03.617> from<00:09:03.778> actually<00:09:04.083> what<00:09:04.243> you<00:09:04.340> learn<00:09:04.661> there<00:09:04.918> and<00:09:05.287> then<00:09:05.448> using<00:09:05.705> that<00:09:05.849> with<00:09:06.010> your<00:09:06.106> clients,<00:09:07.166> relationships<00:09:07.631> with<00:09:07.792> clients.

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So<00:09:08.916> I<00:09:08.996> actually<00:09:09.333> am<00:09:09.478> not<00:09:10.104> too<00:09:10.280> worried.

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I'm<00:09:10.682> sure<00:09:10.907> it'll—<00:09:11.966> the<00:09:12.111> type<00:09:12.384> of—<00:09:12.609> not<00:09:12.833> the<00:09:12.866> type<00:09:13.090> of<00:09:13.171> people,<00:09:13.572> but<00:09:13.973> the,<00:09:14.118> you<00:09:14.439> know,<00:09:14.616> the<00:09:14.696> model,<00:09:15.258> the<00:09:15.418> pyramid<00:09:15.900> might<00:09:16.141> shift<00:09:16.478> a<00:09:16.623> bit.

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The<00:09:17.169> roles<00:09:17.570> will<00:09:17.650> shift.

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But<00:09:18.854> the<00:09:18.951> roles<00:09:19.432> of<00:09:19.577> really<00:09:19.834> engaging<00:09:20.396> with<00:09:20.621> your<00:09:20.781> client<00:09:21.263> to<00:09:21.423> help<00:09:21.616> them<00:09:22.563> drive<00:09:22.804> whatever<00:09:23.190> change<00:09:23.543> they<00:09:23.768> want,<00:09:24.554> the<00:09:24.651> computer<00:09:25.036> can't<00:09:25.293> do<00:09:25.470> that.

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You<00:09:25.951> know,<00:09:26.096> there<00:09:26.256> is<00:09:26.353> still<00:09:26.642> the<00:09:26.738> human<00:09:27.059> factor.

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Now,<00:09:28.090> if<00:09:28.230> it's<00:09:28.310> a<00:09:28.430> company<00:09:28.710> that's<00:09:28.930> only<00:09:29.190> robots,<00:09:29.750> then<00:09:30.010> we're<00:09:30.110> in<00:09:30.410> a<00:09:30.530> different<00:09:30.531> world<00:09:30.850> and<00:09:31.110> I<00:09:31.350> can<00:09:31.490> have<00:09:31.870> a<00:09:31.990> different<00:09:32.050> conversation.

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But<00:09:33.410> I'm<00:09:33.590> not<00:09:33.790> too<00:09:34.470> worried.

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And<00:09:34.791> then<00:09:34.990> the<00:09:35.030> other<00:09:35.190> thing<00:09:35.310> is<00:09:35.470> always<00:09:35.630> true.

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Sorry,<00:09:36.550> I<00:09:36.610> went<00:09:36.670> too<00:09:36.810> long,<00:09:38.030> but<00:09:38.050> consulting<00:09:38.870> is<00:09:39.170> interpreting<00:09:39.650> a<00:09:39.930> lot<00:09:40.110> of<00:09:40.230> the<00:09:40.430> changes<00:09:40.750> coming<00:09:41.210> and<00:09:41.390> how<00:09:41.910> a<00:09:42.030> client<00:09:42.650> reacts<00:09:44.190> and<00:09:44.390> works<00:09:44.710> through<00:09:44.910> that<00:09:45.090> change.

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So<00:09:45.970> quite<00:09:46.070> frankly,<00:09:46.510> there's<00:09:46.690> another<00:09:46.910> point,<00:09:47.250> which<00:09:47.350> is<00:09:47.850> it's<00:09:48.090> kind<00:09:48.150> of<00:09:48.290> good<00:09:48.410> for<00:09:48.550> the<00:09:48.650> consulting<00:09:49.070> firms<00:09:49.330> right<00:09:49.570> now.

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Now,<00:09:50.290> you're<00:09:50.530> asking<00:09:50.770> a<00:09:50.950> longer-term<00:09:51.410> question.

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Yeah,<00:09:52.630> yeah,<00:09:52.890> it<00:09:52.970> does<00:09:53.170> seem<00:09:53.390> like<00:09:53.530> it's<00:09:53.650> good<00:09:53.890> for<00:09:54.050> consulting<00:09:54.470> firms<00:09:54.770> now<00:09:55.050> for<00:09:55.170> sure,<00:09:55.670> right?

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I<00:09:56.150> mean,<00:09:56.370> just<00:09:56.650> the<00:09:56.810> amount<00:09:57.190> that<00:09:57.330> they<00:09:57.510> can<00:09:57.690> research<00:09:57.730> and<00:09:57.750> put<00:09:57.770> together<00:09:59.826> and,<00:10:00.788> you<00:10:00.868> know,<00:10:01.028> present<00:10:01.349> to<00:10:01.445> a<00:10:01.509> client<00:10:02.423> is<00:10:02.567> pretty<00:10:02.808> remarkable.

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When<00:10:04.010> I<00:10:04.074> was<00:10:04.171> reading<00:10:04.411> your<00:10:04.491> book,<00:10:04.812> it<00:10:04.892> reminded<00:10:05.245> me<00:10:05.357> a<00:10:05.373> little<00:10:05.597> bit<00:10:05.758> of<00:10:06.014> Clayton<00:10:06.399> Christensen's<00:10:06.976> book,<00:10:07.297> How<00:10:07.457> Will<00:10:07.602> You<00:10:07.698> Measure<00:10:08.002> Your<00:10:08.179> Life?

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And<00:10:09.060> this<00:10:09.221> whole<00:10:09.461> idea<00:10:10.808> of,<00:10:12.107> you<00:10:12.203> know,<00:10:12.411> kind<00:10:12.572> of<00:10:12.604> what<00:10:12.892> you<00:10:13.052> just<00:10:13.293> described,<00:10:14.191> what<00:10:14.335> it<00:10:14.415> means<00:10:14.656> to<00:10:14.752> be<00:10:14.896> a<00:10:14.992> leader<00:10:15.457> and<00:10:15.554> the<00:10:15.714> impact<00:10:16.099> you<00:10:16.195> can<00:10:16.355> create<00:10:16.660> in<00:10:16.692> your<00:10:16.836> life,<00:10:17.702> both<00:10:17.958> negative<00:10:18.664> and<00:10:18.760> positive.

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You<00:10:20.107> must<00:10:20.299> have<00:10:20.427> bumped<00:10:20.668> into<00:10:20.908> Clayton<00:10:21.325> at<00:10:21.790> HBS.

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He<00:10:22.287> was<00:10:22.463> a<00:10:22.528> BCGer.

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So,<00:10:25.494> and,<00:10:25.798> you<00:10:25.894> know,<00:10:26.215> we<00:10:26.375> lost<00:10:26.696> him<00:10:27.802> a<00:10:27.818> few<00:10:28.123> years<00:10:28.379> ago.

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Great<00:10:29.005> man.

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But<00:10:30.223> how<00:10:31.185> do<00:10:31.891> you<00:10:31.987> think<00:10:32.228> about<00:10:32.468> that<00:10:33.174> and<00:10:33.334> how<00:10:33.367> do<00:10:33.495> you<00:10:33.591> think<00:10:33.767> about<00:10:34.617> the<00:10:34.858> impact<00:10:35.211> you<00:10:35.339> can<00:10:35.435> have<00:10:35.900> in<00:10:35.997> your<00:10:36.157> life<00:10:36.718> both<00:10:36.959> positively<00:10:37.584> and<00:10:37.681> negatively?

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Yeah.

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Well,<00:10:39.749> I<00:10:39.781> mean,<00:10:40.327> you're<00:10:41.353> asking<00:10:41.754> a—<00:10:42.075> I<00:10:42.155> won't<00:10:42.412> give<00:10:42.524> away—<00:10:42.732> well,<00:10:43.069> a<00:10:43.213> plus-60-year-old<00:10:44.176> guy.

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So<00:10:44.577> you<00:10:44.657> think<00:10:44.833> about<00:10:45.074> it<00:10:45.138> differently<00:10:45.459> from<00:10:45.619> a<00:10:45.699> plus-30-year-old.

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But<00:10:46.581> I<00:10:46.726> will<00:10:47.223> maybe<00:10:47.463> borrow<00:10:47.640> from<00:10:47.848> Arthur<00:10:48.185> Brooks<00:10:48.409> for<00:10:48.474> a<00:10:48.506> minute<00:10:48.650> because<00:10:48.826> I<00:10:48.842> just<00:10:49.067> read<00:10:49.292> that<00:10:49.452> book,<00:10:49.612> Strength<00:10:49.949> to<00:10:50.029> Strength.

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But<00:10:51.072> I<00:10:51.232> do<00:10:51.473> think,<00:10:51.954> and<00:10:52.098> this<00:10:52.274> ties<00:10:52.675> to<00:10:53.317> my<00:10:53.541> concept<00:10:53.974> of<00:10:54.103> a<00:10:54.199> generous<00:10:54.680> leader<00:10:55.145> or<00:10:55.322> leaders<00:10:55.706> helping<00:10:55.963> drive<00:10:56.348> people.

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I<00:10:57.150> mean,<00:10:57.310> really,<00:10:57.871> if<00:10:57.968> I<00:10:58.048> look<00:10:58.369> back<00:10:58.689> the<00:10:58.834> way<00:10:58.914> you<00:10:59.010> said<00:10:59.267> that,<00:10:59.620> about<00:10:59.880> life.

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And,<00:11:00.801> you<00:11:00.802> know,<00:11:01.000> some<00:11:01.120> people<00:11:01.300> ask,<00:11:01.680> what's<00:11:01.840> your<00:11:01.920> legacy,<00:11:02.420> or<00:11:02.520> what<00:11:02.580> are<00:11:02.700> you<00:11:02.701> proud<00:11:02.960> of?

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I<00:11:03.780> mean,<00:11:03.781> a<00:11:03.880> story,<00:11:04.300> one<00:11:04.301> time<00:11:04.560> I<00:11:04.620> had,<00:11:04.880> maybe<00:11:05.120> 15<00:11:05.500> years<00:11:05.760> ago,<00:11:06.100> an<00:11:06.200> email<00:11:06.500> from<00:11:06.760> a<00:11:07.000> friend,<00:11:07.460> a<00:11:07.560> guy<00:11:07.720> who<00:11:07.860> worked<00:11:08.000> at<00:11:08.220> BCG<00:11:08.620> 15<00:11:09.000> years<00:11:09.260> before<00:11:09.540> that,<00:11:10.600> who<00:11:10.680> just<00:11:10.900> got<00:11:11.100> promoted<00:11:11.340> to<00:11:11.540> CEO<00:11:11.840> somewhere.

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He<00:11:12.960> said,<00:11:13.200> Joe,<00:11:13.280> I<00:11:13.380> just<00:11:13.500> wanted<00:11:13.640> to<00:11:13.840> thank<00:11:14.060> you.

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You<00:11:14.560> know,<00:11:14.640> I<00:11:14.700> got<00:11:14.860> this<00:11:15.040> job<00:11:15.260> because<00:11:15.480> of<00:11:15.679> you.

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Of<00:11:16.660> course,<00:11:16.661> I<00:11:16.780> responded,<00:11:17.340> well,<00:11:17.520> no,<00:11:17.700> you<00:11:17.860> didn't.

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You<00:11:18.420> know,<00:11:18.700> you<00:11:18.740> did.

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He<00:11:19.340> said,<00:11:19.640> well,<00:11:19.700> no,<00:11:20.040> no,<00:11:20.300> 15<00:11:20.360> years<00:11:20.620> ago,<00:11:20.800> I<00:11:20.940> asked<00:11:21.100> you<00:11:21.240> a<00:11:21.480> question,<00:11:21.840> and<00:11:22.100> you<00:11:22.260> answered<00:11:22.640> it<00:11:22.920> in<00:11:23.020> a<00:11:23.120> way<00:11:23.200> I<00:11:23.340> didn't<00:11:23.540> expect,<00:11:24.300> and<00:11:24.460> it<00:11:24.660> set<00:11:24.740> me<00:11:24.920> on<00:11:25.020> a<00:11:25.160> different<00:11:25.620> trajectory.

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So,<00:11:26.720> you<00:11:26.740> know,<00:11:26.920> that's<00:11:27.300> legacy,<00:11:27.780> actually.

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Listening<00:11:30.098> to<00:11:30.178> the<00:11:30.274> person<00:11:30.675> that<00:11:30.819> had<00:11:30.979> the<00:11:31.075> question,<00:11:31.636> engaging<00:11:32.116> in<00:11:32.197> what<00:11:32.357> it<00:11:32.437> is<00:11:32.581> really<00:11:32.757> they<00:11:32.918> want<00:11:33.046> to<00:11:33.142> talk<00:11:33.334> about.

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And<00:11:33.703> then<00:11:34.344> obviously<00:11:34.664> the<00:11:34.744> advice,<00:11:35.161> whatever<00:11:35.401> it<00:11:35.481> was,<00:11:35.786> I<00:11:35.802> have<00:11:36.026> no<00:11:36.122> recollection,<00:11:37.003> must<00:11:37.244> have<00:11:37.340> been<00:11:37.564> fine.

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You<00:11:37.997> know,<00:11:38.109> they're<00:11:38.285> giving<00:11:38.525> your<00:11:38.686> best<00:11:38.990> advice.

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So<00:11:40.208> really,<00:11:40.592> if<00:11:40.688> I<00:11:40.832> look,<00:11:41.233> you<00:11:41.329> know,<00:11:41.553> you<00:11:41.730> want<00:11:41.954> to<00:11:42.050> touch<00:11:42.451> people<00:11:43.172> in<00:11:43.316> positive<00:11:43.797> ways.

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Now,<00:11:45.719> you<00:11:45.831> said<00:11:46.056> positive<00:11:46.520> and<00:11:46.616> negative.

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I<00:11:47.434> mean,<00:11:47.802> well,<00:11:48.154> I'll<00:11:48.619> tell<00:11:48.779> a<00:11:48.795> funny<00:11:49.100> story.

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Can<00:11:49.580> I<00:11:49.725> tell<00:11:49.837> a<00:11:49.901> funny<00:11:50.061> story?

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You<00:11:50.638> know,<00:11:50.766> just<00:11:51.006> on<00:11:51.487> the<00:11:51.968> importance<00:11:52.384> of<00:11:52.464> developing<00:11:52.945> people.

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I<00:11:54.035> was<00:11:54.227> at<00:11:54.307> P&G,<00:11:55.028> my<00:11:55.188> first<00:11:55.428> job,<00:11:55.733> sales<00:11:56.294> rep,<00:11:56.630> then<00:11:56.935> I<00:11:56.951> got<00:11:57.063> promoted.

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And<00:11:57.816> if<00:11:57.896> you<00:11:57.976> skim<00:11:58.232> the<00:11:58.312> book,<00:11:58.537> you<00:11:58.617> saw<00:11:58.857> this,<00:11:59.033> but<00:11:59.178> got<00:11:59.274> promoted<00:11:59.610> after<00:11:59.835> a<00:11:59.915> couple<00:12:00.219> years,<00:12:01.100> rode<00:12:01.277> with<00:12:01.437> my—<00:12:01.982> there<00:12:02.062> was<00:12:02.238> career<00:12:02.494> sales<00:12:02.879> guys<00:12:03.344> and<00:12:03.440> one<00:12:03.600> manager,<00:12:04.161> but<00:12:04.385> the<00:12:04.641> management<00:12:05.042> track,<00:12:05.843> the<00:12:05.923> career<00:12:06.099> sales<00:12:06.420> guys,<00:12:06.965> I<00:12:07.045> thought<00:12:07.221> they<00:12:07.285> were<00:12:07.365> old<00:12:07.590> men.

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They<00:12:07.910> were<00:12:07.942> 40,<00:12:08.391> you<00:12:08.471> know,<00:12:08.567> while<00:12:08.631> I<00:12:08.791> was<00:12:08.887> 25.

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So<00:12:09.689> that<00:12:09.913> seemed<00:12:10.089> old<00:12:10.330> to<00:12:10.410> me.

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I<00:12:11.131> would<00:12:11.291> ride<00:12:11.451> with<00:12:11.547> these<00:12:11.691> people<00:12:11.996> every<00:12:12.172> 2<00:12:12.332> weeks<00:12:12.637> and<00:12:12.717> never<00:12:12.893> say<00:12:13.133> a<00:12:13.214> thing<00:12:13.374> because<00:12:13.758> I<00:12:13.935> was<00:12:14.047> scared<00:12:14.415> to<00:12:14.511> death.

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And<00:12:15.537> then<00:12:15.713> it<00:12:15.777> came<00:12:16.098> time<00:12:16.418> to<00:12:16.498> do<00:12:16.675> the<00:12:17.043> year-end<00:12:17.444> review,<00:12:18.165> and<00:12:18.325> I<00:12:18.501> wrote<00:12:18.806> down<00:12:19.126> all<00:12:19.382> the<00:12:19.462> facts<00:12:19.943> and<00:12:20.023> everything<00:12:20.280> they<00:12:20.360> should<00:12:20.584> do<00:12:20.824> better<00:12:21.129> according<00:12:21.529> to<00:12:21.626> the<00:12:21.786> book<00:12:22.106> and<00:12:22.186> everything<00:12:22.427> I'd<00:12:22.587> learned<00:12:22.827> in<00:12:22.891> my<00:12:23.068> big<00:12:23.292> 2<00:12:23.532> years,<00:12:24.029> because<00:12:24.221> now<00:12:24.349> I<00:12:24.430> could<00:12:24.574> hide<00:12:24.750> behind<00:12:24.990> the<00:12:25.134> paper.

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And<00:12:26.032> I<00:12:26.112> started<00:12:26.577> in<00:12:26.674> this<00:12:26.898> review,<00:12:27.781> and<00:12:27.877> about<00:12:28.294> 2<00:12:28.503> minutes<00:12:28.904> in,<00:12:29.321> this<00:12:29.465> guy<00:12:29.561> named<00:12:29.786> Rich<00:12:30.668> said,<00:12:30.909> "What<00:12:31.166> the<00:12:31.326> blank,<00:12:31.727> Joe?

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You<00:12:32.513> ride<00:12:32.690> with<00:12:32.834> me<00:12:33.155> every<00:12:33.556> 2<00:12:33.813> weeks<00:12:34.214> and<00:12:34.294> you've<00:12:34.615> never<00:12:34.936> said<00:12:35.321> a<00:12:35.337> damn<00:12:35.722> thing."<00:12:36.700> Well,<00:12:37.085> you<00:12:37.118> know,<00:12:37.214> it<00:12:37.246> was<00:12:37.406> all<00:12:37.519> fear<00:12:38.064> as<00:12:38.208> a<00:12:38.289> 25-year-old,<00:12:39.428> but<00:12:39.524> there<00:12:39.652> was<00:12:39.829> a<00:12:39.909> powerful<00:12:40.294> lesson<00:12:40.695> in<00:12:40.791> there.

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You<00:12:41.433> know,<00:12:41.898> you<00:12:42.075> cannot<00:12:42.861> develop<00:12:43.278> your<00:12:43.438> own<00:12:43.583> people,<00:12:43.984> whether<00:12:44.224> because<00:12:44.545> you're<00:12:44.642> afraid,<00:12:45.524> whether<00:12:45.684> because<00:12:45.989> you<00:12:46.085> think<00:12:46.262> it's<00:12:46.470> all<00:12:46.631> about<00:12:46.952> you<00:12:47.289> or<00:12:47.369> whatever.

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And<00:12:47.930> that<00:12:48.171> is,<00:12:49.037> I<00:12:49.053> mean,<00:12:49.198> that's<00:12:49.615> a<00:12:49.695> disservice<00:12:50.321> to<00:12:50.433> them.

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It's<00:12:50.834> a<00:12:50.882> huge<00:12:51.203> mistake<00:12:51.540> for<00:12:51.781> you.

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But<00:12:53.250> also<00:12:53.910> there,<00:12:54.250> I<00:12:54.270> was<00:12:54.430> afraid<00:12:54.830> to<00:12:55.070> tell<00:12:55.190> the<00:12:55.410> truth.

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And<00:12:57.730> I<00:12:57.850> was<00:12:57.970> just<00:12:58.150> afraid<00:12:58.470> at<00:12:58.670> that<00:12:58.990> stage.

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I<00:12:59.331> was<00:12:59.430> afraid.

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When<00:13:00.150> I<00:13:00.269> walked<00:13:00.490> out,<00:13:00.730> my<00:13:00.790> boss<00:13:01.090> said,<00:13:01.470> "Never<00:13:01.490> again<00:13:01.830> write<00:13:02.030> a<00:13:02.170> review<00:13:02.570> where<00:13:03.130> everything<00:13:03.350> on<00:13:03.570> that<00:13:03.850> piece<00:13:04.070> of<00:13:04.090> paper<00:13:04.950> they<00:13:05.490> haven't<00:13:05.850> heard<00:13:06.490> somewhere."<00:13:07.290> So<00:13:07.530> it<00:13:07.830> was<00:13:07.950> a<00:13:08.070> very<00:13:08.170> powerful<00:13:08.630> lesson<00:13:08.990> to<00:13:09.190> me.

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But<00:13:10.270> it<00:13:10.350> was<00:13:10.470> also<00:13:10.690> a<00:13:10.810> lesson<00:13:10.990> how<00:13:11.130> one<00:13:11.330> could<00:13:11.490> easily<00:13:11.730> make<00:13:11.950> a<00:13:12.130> mistake.

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You<00:13:13.630> don't<00:13:13.790> want<00:13:13.890> to<00:13:14.010> give<00:13:14.090> tough<00:13:14.390> feedback<00:13:14.770> because<00:13:14.930> you<00:13:15.010> don't<00:13:15.170> want<00:13:15.290> them<00:13:15.410> to<00:13:15.530> not<00:13:15.850> like<00:13:16.150> you.

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Well,<00:13:16.870> that's<00:13:17.330> not<00:13:17.790> very<00:13:18.030> helpful.

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And<00:13:19.410> by<00:13:19.470> the<00:13:19.630> way,<00:13:19.650> that's<00:13:19.830> all<00:13:19.970> about<00:13:20.210> you.

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That's<00:13:20.790> being<00:13:20.990> selfish.

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How<00:13:23.050> did<00:13:23.470> you<00:13:23.610> manage<00:13:23.810> to<00:13:24.070> balance<00:13:24.310> your<00:13:24.550> life?

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How<00:13:25.510> do<00:13:25.670> you<00:13:25.790> think<00:13:25.970> about<00:13:26.250> that?

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Oh,<00:13:27.190> well,<00:13:27.590> I<00:13:27.870> have<00:13:28.050> a<00:13:28.250> lot<00:13:28.251> of<00:13:28.310> answers<00:13:28.610> to<00:13:28.750> that<00:13:28.930> one<00:13:29.230> too.

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I<00:13:29.870> mean,<00:13:30.050> BCG<00:13:30.470> is,<00:13:31.070> you<00:13:31.090> know,<00:13:31.310> applying<00:13:31.610> by<00:13:31.850> the<00:13:31.990> question,<00:13:32.490> is<00:13:32.491> a,<00:13:32.810> you<00:13:32.811> know,<00:13:32.990> whatever,<00:13:33.530> 60<00:13:33.790> to<00:13:34.490> maybe<00:13:34.890> 50<00:13:35.270> to<00:13:35.390> 80-hour<00:13:35.810> week<00:13:36.090> place.

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I'm<00:13:36.650> not<00:13:36.770> sure<00:13:36.910> how<00:13:37.050> many<00:13:37.190> 50s<00:13:37.550> there<00:13:37.790> were,<00:13:38.090> but<00:13:38.190> there's<00:13:38.670> probably<00:13:38.850> some.

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But<00:13:39.810> typically,<00:13:40.270> not<00:13:40.550> so<00:13:40.730> much<00:13:40.870> today,<00:13:41.210> on<00:13:41.430> the<00:13:41.550> road<00:13:41.770> 4<00:13:41.970> days<00:13:42.190> a<00:13:42.430> week.

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I<00:13:43.170> have<00:13:43.390> 4<00:13:43.570> children,<00:13:44.430> been<00:13:44.431> married<00:13:44.670> 40,<00:13:45.390> I<00:13:45.590> don't<00:13:45.670> know,<00:13:45.970> 43<00:13:46.210> years.

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Now,<00:13:47.230> 9,<00:13:47.650> 8<00:13:47.830> grandchildren.

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And<00:13:48.950> it's<00:13:49.030> funny<00:13:49.190> because<00:13:49.270> my<00:13:49.510> kids<00:13:49.790> will<00:13:50.030> say,<00:13:50.390> but<00:13:50.490> Dad,<00:13:50.690> you<00:13:50.850> were<00:13:50.990> never<00:13:51.170> gone.

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I<00:13:51.770> was<00:13:51.870> gone<00:13:52.010> 4<00:13:52.230> days<00:13:52.410> a<00:13:52.550> week<00:13:52.570> for<00:13:52.590> 20<00:13:52.610> years<00:13:52.630> and<00:13:52.650> I<00:13:52.670> didn't<00:13:52.690> have<00:13:54.486> of,<00:13:54.582> you<00:13:54.886> know,<00:13:54.998> FaceTime<00:13:55.640> or<00:13:55.768> whatever<00:13:56.024> it<00:13:56.105> is<00:13:56.345> on<00:13:56.489> this<00:13:56.826> thing<00:13:56.986> or<00:13:57.147> Zornhalsing.

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So,<00:13:58.990> you<00:13:59.134> know,<00:13:59.375> for<00:13:59.535> me,<00:14:00.272> as<00:14:00.433> my<00:14:00.657> wife<00:14:00.978> always<00:14:01.218> said,<00:14:01.779> one<00:14:02.020> first<00:14:02.196> thing<00:14:02.356> she<00:14:02.581> says,<00:14:02.998> the<00:14:03.158> day<00:14:03.462> we<00:14:03.575> know<00:14:03.943> you'd<00:14:04.104> rather<00:14:04.440> be<00:14:04.601> gone<00:14:04.921> than<00:14:05.146> here<00:14:05.402> is<00:14:05.482> the<00:14:05.562> day<00:14:05.723> we<00:14:05.867> got<00:14:05.979> a<00:14:06.043> problem.

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So<00:14:07.069> I<00:14:07.342> love<00:14:07.566> my<00:14:07.726> job,<00:14:08.368> but<00:14:08.512> I<00:14:08.608> wanted<00:14:08.849> to<00:14:08.929> be<00:14:09.073> with<00:14:09.169> my<00:14:09.313> family.

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I<00:14:10.211> think<00:14:10.387> so,<00:14:10.692> you<00:14:10.772> know,<00:14:10.916> when<00:14:11.013> I<00:14:11.093> come<00:14:11.253> balancing,<00:14:11.654> first<00:14:11.958> off,<00:14:12.055> you<00:14:12.135> gotta<00:14:12.375> love<00:14:12.616> the<00:14:12.696> job<00:14:12.936> because<00:14:13.593> if<00:14:14.074> you<00:14:14.155> don't<00:14:14.363> love<00:14:14.603> it,<00:14:15.245> the<00:14:15.661> dislove<00:14:16.222> or<00:14:16.287> whatever<00:14:17.008> comes<00:14:17.264> home<00:14:17.585> too.

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And<00:14:17.986> that's<00:14:18.242> a<00:14:18.451> real<00:14:18.627> burden<00:14:19.012> on<00:14:19.412> the<00:14:19.493> family.

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And<00:14:20.390> then<00:14:20.535> I<00:14:20.631> just<00:14:20.855> went<00:14:21.015> outta<00:14:21.128> my<00:14:21.352> way<00:14:21.753> to<00:14:22.218> one,<00:14:22.699> really<00:14:23.099> blur<00:14:23.420> work<00:14:23.692> and<00:14:23.821> life,<00:14:24.318> any<00:14:24.542> opportunities<00:14:25.071> to<00:14:25.183> bring<00:14:25.295> my<00:14:25.440> family<00:14:25.921> into<00:14:26.161> work.

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We<00:14:26.530> had<00:14:26.643> family<00:14:26.980> retreats<00:14:28.330> and<00:14:28.635> kids'<00:14:28.973> day<00:14:29.214> at<00:14:29.358> work<00:14:29.632> or<00:14:29.760> Halloween<00:14:30.097> parties.

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They<00:14:30.821> came.

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But<00:14:32.428> also,<00:14:33.231> one<00:14:33.456> little<00:14:33.697> trick<00:14:34.018> I<00:14:34.115> would<00:14:34.259> do<00:14:34.356> is<00:14:34.500> I<00:14:34.677> never<00:14:35.079> missed<00:14:35.465> what<00:14:35.545> was<00:14:35.690> important.

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My<00:14:36.670> parents<00:14:36.911> were<00:14:37.008> divorced.

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My<00:14:37.586> mom<00:14:37.876> was<00:14:37.988> a<00:14:38.052> schoolteacher,<00:14:39.419> couldn't<00:14:39.740> make<00:14:40.142> anything.

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She<00:14:41.026> made<00:14:41.332> one<00:14:41.589> junior<00:14:41.894> varsity<00:14:42.312> basketball<00:14:42.778> game<00:14:43.180> that<00:14:43.293> I<00:14:43.421> can<00:14:43.518> recall<00:14:44.064> in<00:14:44.161> my<00:14:45.046> life.

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I<00:14:46.237> was<00:14:46.415> mad<00:14:46.720> then.

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Now,<00:14:47.139> I<00:14:47.220> understand<00:14:47.767> she<00:14:47.944> had<00:14:48.121> to<00:14:48.814> put<00:14:48.975> food<00:14:49.232> on<00:14:49.313> my<00:14:49.474> table<00:14:50.440> and<00:14:50.521> my<00:14:50.682> brothers.

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But<00:14:52.598> if<00:14:52.695> my<00:14:52.839> child,<00:14:53.258> one<00:14:53.403> of<00:14:53.435> the<00:14:53.564> children<00:14:53.790> had<00:14:54.054> a<00:14:54.070> little—<00:14:54.384> you<00:14:54.467> know<00:14:54.533> how<00:14:54.566> they<00:14:54.714> have<00:14:54.764> skits<00:14:54.847> in<00:14:54.880> grade<00:14:54.962> school,<00:14:55.061> a<00:14:55.127> little<00:14:55.309> thing<00:14:55.359> at<00:14:55.392> 4:30<00:14:55.606> in<00:14:55.639> the<00:14:55.738> afternoon<00:14:55.953> at<00:14:56.052> your<00:14:56.135> school?

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Smile<00:14:58.590> says<00:14:58.750> it<00:14:58.970> all.

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It's<00:14:59.790> silly<00:15:00.050> as<00:15:00.370> heck,<00:15:00.570> but<00:15:00.710> if<00:15:00.790> you're<00:15:00.910> not<00:15:01.090> there,<00:15:01.470> they<00:15:01.690> know<00:15:01.890> my<00:15:02.130> mommy<00:15:02.410> and<00:15:02.650> daddy<00:15:02.810> or<00:15:03.030> daddy's<00:15:03.390> in<00:15:03.530> there.

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I<00:15:04.130> would<00:15:04.290> get<00:15:04.470> on<00:15:04.750> planes<00:15:05.050> and<00:15:05.230> make<00:15:05.430> it<00:15:05.570> to<00:15:05.650> that<00:15:05.810> 4:30<00:15:06.330> thing<00:15:06.650> or<00:15:06.850> 6:00,<00:15:07.550> and<00:15:07.730> then<00:15:07.870> I'd<00:15:08.070> get<00:15:08.130> up<00:15:08.350> damn<00:15:08.570> early<00:15:08.710> in<00:15:08.830> the<00:15:08.910> morning<00:15:09.050> and<00:15:09.170> get<00:15:09.390> back<00:15:09.570> to<00:15:09.710> the<00:15:09.930> client.

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People<00:15:10.450> said,<00:15:10.550> what<00:15:10.610> are<00:15:10.710> you<00:15:10.810> doing?

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I<00:15:11.190> said,<00:15:11.250> I<00:15:11.390> can't<00:15:11.710> miss<00:15:12.150> this<00:15:12.390> event.

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So<00:15:13.450> I<00:15:13.490> was<00:15:13.950> quite<00:15:14.190> conscious.

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It's<00:15:15.410> funny<00:15:15.730> because<00:15:16.050> I<00:15:16.270> was<00:15:16.490> gone<00:15:16.730> a<00:15:16.930> lot,<00:15:16.931> but<00:15:17.010> I<00:15:17.090> was<00:15:17.230> quite<00:15:17.410> conscious<00:15:17.870> about<00:15:18.270> attending<00:15:19.190> what<00:15:19.630> mattered<00:15:20.150> most<00:15:20.490> or<00:15:20.650> what<00:15:20.790> I<00:15:20.910> interpret<00:15:21.370> as<00:15:21.590> mattering<00:15:22.010> most<00:15:22.230> to<00:15:22.390> the<00:15:22.550> family.

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And<00:15:23.410> that's<00:15:23.750> so,<00:15:24.130> you<00:15:24.131> know,<00:15:24.132> that's,<00:15:24.410> that<00:15:24.610> was<00:15:24.810> just<00:15:25.190> one<00:15:25.310> little<00:15:25.490> trick.

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I<00:15:25.890> mean,<00:15:25.950> first<00:15:26.130> off,<00:15:26.310> I<00:15:26.430> love<00:15:26.610> the<00:15:26.810> job.

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I<00:15:27.130> love<00:15:27.230> my<00:15:27.430> family.

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If<00:15:27.910> those<00:15:28.030> two<00:15:28.170> go<00:15:28.250> together,<00:15:28.270> you'll<00:15:28.290> work<00:15:28.310> on<00:15:28.330> it<00:15:28.350> damn<00:15:28.370> hard.

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But<00:15:30.470> then<00:15:30.630> I<00:15:30.750> just<00:15:30.950> looked<00:15:31.110> for<00:15:31.310> my<00:15:31.510> ways.

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You<00:15:32.810> know,<00:15:32.830> I<00:15:32.831> remember<00:15:33.050> on<00:15:33.250> weekends,<00:15:33.730> people<00:15:33.830> said,<00:15:34.090> "Do<00:15:34.170> you<00:15:34.171> golf?"<00:15:34.570> I<00:15:34.810> said,<00:15:35.070> "Well,<00:15:35.210> not<00:15:35.330> anymore."<00:15:36.050> Who's<00:15:36.850> going<00:15:36.970> to<00:15:37.030> give<00:15:37.170> up<00:15:37.390> one<00:15:37.570> quarter<00:15:38.010> of<00:15:38.670> the<00:15:38.810> time<00:15:39.030> you<00:15:39.150> have<00:15:39.330> with<00:15:39.470> your<00:15:39.630> children?

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You<00:15:40.130> know,<00:15:40.390> golfing<00:15:40.790> takes,<00:15:41.230> you<00:15:41.330> know,<00:15:41.610> one<00:15:41.730> half<00:15:41.930> a<00:15:42.150> day<00:15:42.270> or<00:15:42.490> two-thirds<00:15:43.010> of<00:15:43.250> the<00:15:43.310> day.

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Yeah,<00:15:43.710> golfing<00:15:44.010> takes<00:15:44.170> forever.

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Yeah,<00:15:45.490> it<00:15:45.570> takes<00:15:45.770> forever.

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I<00:15:46.271> know<00:15:46.350> it's<00:15:46.430> a<00:15:46.590> lot<00:15:46.610> of—<00:15:46.930> well,<00:15:46.990> I'll<00:15:47.210> tell<00:15:47.211> you,<00:15:47.550> now<00:15:47.830> I<00:15:48.010> have<00:15:48.650> my<00:15:48.850> children<00:15:49.250> love—<00:15:49.770> a<00:15:49.810> couple<00:15:49.830> of<00:15:49.870> my<00:15:49.970> children<00:15:50.190> are<00:15:50.470> into<00:15:50.510> it<00:15:50.630> and<00:15:50.670> my<00:15:50.870> grandchildren<00:15:51.270> are<00:15:51.550> into<00:15:51.570> it.

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So<00:15:51.790> now<00:15:51.850> I<00:15:51.990> can<00:15:52.150> golf<00:15:52.430> all<00:15:52.650> I<00:15:52.870> want<00:15:53.170> with<00:15:53.450> the<00:15:53.750> family.

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You<00:15:54.270> know,<00:15:54.890> I<00:15:55.130> had<00:15:55.290> to<00:15:55.370> give<00:15:55.530> it<00:15:55.630> up<00:15:55.750> for<00:15:55.990> 30<00:15:56.170> years,<00:15:56.470> but<00:15:56.610> who<00:15:56.850> cares?

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That's<00:15:57.630> the<00:15:57.770> way<00:15:57.910> to<00:15:58.070> do<00:15:58.210> it.

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Yeah.

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Although,<00:15:59.230> think<00:15:59.450> about<00:15:59.630> it.

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Well,<00:15:59.932> the<00:16:00.076> other<00:16:00.125> thing<00:16:00.253> I'd<00:16:00.349> say<00:16:00.509> is<00:16:00.638> I<00:16:00.718> never<00:16:00.958> gave<00:16:01.199> up<00:16:01.295> what<00:16:01.600> mattered.

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Like<00:16:02.321> personally<00:16:02.722> to<00:16:02.818> me,<00:16:03.043> running's<00:16:03.460> important.

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It's<00:16:04.246> just<00:16:04.502> my,<00:16:05.288> and<00:16:05.368> that<00:16:05.544> I<00:16:05.689> wouldn't<00:16:05.945> give<00:16:06.090> up.

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Now<00:16:06.506> I<00:16:06.587> might<00:16:06.747> have<00:16:06.891> to<00:16:06.988> get<00:16:07.148> up<00:16:07.613> an<00:16:07.773> hour<00:16:08.030> earlier<00:16:08.270> than<00:16:08.367> I<00:16:08.415> might<00:16:08.575> have<00:16:08.671> before,<00:16:09.553> but<00:16:09.778> I<00:16:09.874> didn't<00:16:10.098> give<00:16:10.259> up<00:16:10.419> the<00:16:10.515> things<00:16:10.820> that<00:16:10.916> kept<00:16:11.173> me<00:16:12.263> healthy<00:16:12.840> and<00:16:12.985> on<00:16:13.161> track<00:16:13.626> too.

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You<00:16:14.107> give<00:16:14.267> those<00:16:14.444> things<00:16:14.829> up<00:16:14.941> and<00:16:15.005> then<00:16:15.165> you<00:16:15.310> got,<00:16:15.630> you<00:16:15.711> know,<00:16:15.807> resentment<00:16:16.272> starts<00:16:16.528> to,<00:16:16.929> we<00:16:17.009> can<00:16:17.170> go<00:16:17.330> into<00:16:17.827> a<00:16:17.891> different<00:16:18.196> conversation.

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Yeah.

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What,<00:16:20.698> what<00:16:21.002> reading<00:16:21.259> recommendations<00:16:21.980> would<00:16:22.141> you<00:16:22.221> have<00:16:22.445> for<00:16:22.606> us?

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That's<00:16:23.969> a,<00:16:24.209> that's<00:16:24.482> a<00:16:24.546> funny<00:16:24.851> question.

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I,<00:16:25.572> I<00:16:25.813> typically<00:16:26.310> read,<00:16:27.080> you<00:16:27.280> know,<00:16:28.060> spy<00:16:28.260> novel,<00:16:28.920> Ludlum,<00:16:29.560> Jack<00:16:29.680> Reacher,<00:16:30.160> this<00:16:30.280> kind<00:16:30.540> of<00:16:30.760> stuff.

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That's<00:16:31.260> my<00:16:31.440> fun<00:16:31.680> stuff,<00:16:32.500> you<00:16:32.540> know.

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But,<00:16:33.060> but,<00:16:33.220> you<00:16:33.380> know,<00:16:33.460> if<00:16:33.680> you<00:16:33.700> ask<00:16:33.701> me,<00:16:33.940> if<00:16:34.000> you<00:16:34.120> ask<00:16:34.240> me,<00:16:34.740> I<00:16:34.760> mean,<00:16:34.980> I,<00:16:35.189> I<00:16:35.740> do<00:16:35.960> think<00:16:36.160> about<00:16:36.360> this,<00:16:37.380> the<00:16:37.400> book<00:16:37.640> Shackleton's<00:16:38.860> book,<00:16:38.900> you<00:16:38.980> know,<00:16:39.260> Endurance,<00:16:39.800> or<00:16:40.060> Alfred<00:16:40.480> Lansing's<00:16:40.960> book<00:16:41.120> about<00:16:41.420> Shackleton.

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When<00:16:42.620> people<00:16:42.740> say,<00:16:42.920> what's<00:16:43.080> your<00:16:43.180> favorite<00:16:43.520> kind<00:16:43.720> of<00:16:43.860> book?

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I<00:16:44.060> mean,<00:16:44.180> I<00:16:44.181> got<00:16:44.280> a<00:16:44.320> lot<00:16:44.420> of<00:16:44.520> favorite<00:16:44.720> books,<00:16:45.080> but<00:16:45.120> they're<00:16:45.240> mostly,<00:16:45.760> you<00:16:46.300> know,<00:16:46.540> Jack<00:16:46.740> Reacher<00:16:46.980> things.

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But<00:16:47.660> as<00:16:48.100> far<00:16:48.260> as<00:16:48.760> a<00:16:49.020> great<00:16:49.280> story<00:16:50.020> that's<00:16:51.000> about<00:16:51.440> human,<00:16:52.140> you<00:16:52.320> know,<00:16:53.020> human<00:16:53.021> resilience<00:16:53.720> and<00:16:54.000> courage,<00:16:54.920> I'd<00:16:55.380> read<00:16:55.540> that<00:16:55.740> book<00:16:56.000> if<00:16:56.180> people<00:16:56.440> haven't<00:16:56.680> read<00:16:56.880> it.

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That'd<00:16:57.600> be<00:16:57.660> one.

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I<00:16:58.620> can't<00:16:58.880> recommend<00:16:59.260> great<00:16:59.560> business<00:16:59.840> books<00:17:00.180> because<00:17:00.280> I<00:17:00.740> didn't<00:17:00.920> read<00:17:01.180> a<00:17:01.460> lot<00:17:01.461> of<00:17:01.540> great<00:17:01.780> business<00:17:02.040> books.

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I<00:17:03.580> think<00:17:03.860> I<00:17:04.080> live<00:17:04.220> business,<00:17:04.640> so<00:17:04.800> why<00:17:04.920> would<00:17:05.140> I<00:17:05.460> sound<00:17:05.880> silly?

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And<00:17:07.100> that<00:17:07.220> means<00:17:07.380> no<00:17:07.500> one's<00:17:07.620> going<00:17:07.720> to<00:17:07.721> read<00:17:07.880> my<00:17:08.120> book.

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I<00:17:08.440> get<00:17:08.660> the<00:17:08.840> risk<00:17:09.060> of<00:17:09.180> what<00:17:09.280> I<00:17:09.400> just<00:17:09.560> said,<00:17:09.880> but<00:17:10.020> it<00:17:10.540> is<00:17:10.780> what<00:17:10.960> it<00:17:11.120> is.

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I<00:17:12.200> like<00:17:12.400> a<00:17:12.540> good<00:17:12.740> story<00:17:13.120> that<00:17:13.260> has<00:17:13.480> messages.

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Yeah,<00:17:14.700> I<00:17:14.840> think<00:17:15.280> you're<00:17:15.400> right<00:17:15.600> about<00:17:15.860> that.

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No<00:17:16.500> question.

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How<00:17:17.600> are<00:17:17.700> you<00:17:17.840> thinking<00:17:18.020> about<00:17:18.260> our<00:17:18.500> current<00:17:18.900> economic<00:17:19.320> situation,<00:17:20.220> tariffs?

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I<00:17:20.640> mean,<00:17:20.720> this<00:17:20.840> isn't<00:17:21.040> a<00:17:21.160> political<00:17:21.440> show<00:17:21.660> or<00:17:21.800> anything<00:17:22.000> like<00:17:22.220> that,<00:17:22.300> but<00:17:22.380> if<00:17:22.720> you<00:17:22.880> were<00:17:23.040> advising<00:17:23.640> companies<00:17:24.900> today,<00:17:24.920> how<00:17:24.940> would<00:17:24.960> you<00:17:27.089> what<00:17:27.539> advice<00:17:27.899> would<00:17:28.119> you<00:17:28.239> give<00:17:28.359> for<00:17:28.499> them?

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Because<00:17:28.760> it<00:17:28.879> seems<00:17:29.039> like<00:17:29.199> every<00:17:29.399> day<00:17:29.659> is<00:17:30.179> pretty<00:17:30.299> uncertain.

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You<00:17:31.459> know,<00:17:32.339> I'm<00:17:32.439> just<00:17:32.559> laughing<00:17:32.919> because<00:17:33.079> now<00:17:33.259> that<00:17:33.379> I<00:17:33.419> left<00:17:33.599> BCG,<00:17:34.858> I<00:17:34.899> noticed<00:17:35.199> the<00:17:35.399> BCG<00:17:35.879> answers,<00:17:36.419> which<00:17:36.420> is,<00:17:36.699> you<00:17:36.700> know,<00:17:36.899> in<00:17:36.979> times<00:17:37.259> of<00:17:37.479> uncertainty,<00:17:38.199> of<00:17:38.219> course,<00:17:38.599> plan<00:17:38.719> for<00:17:38.899> all<00:17:39.019> the<00:17:39.119> different<00:17:39.259> scenarios<00:17:39.759> and<00:17:40.359> then<00:17:40.479> hire<00:17:40.919> us<00:17:41.159> to<00:17:41.319> do<00:17:41.479> it.

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So<00:17:41.999> that's<00:17:42.419> a<00:17:42.519> little<00:17:42.719> silly.

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But<00:17:43.479> I'd<00:17:43.699> say<00:17:43.759> I<00:17:43.959> just—<00:17:44.719> I<00:17:44.720> actually<00:17:44.721> was<00:17:44.859> talking—<00:17:45.339> I<00:17:45.340> haven't<00:17:45.479> talked<00:17:45.699> to—<00:17:46.099> I<00:17:46.100> was<00:17:46.139> talking<00:17:46.159> to<00:17:46.299> one<00:17:46.359> of<00:17:46.459> my<00:17:46.460> colleagues<00:17:46.879> today.

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I<00:17:47.639> actually<00:17:47.779> haven't<00:17:47.979> talked<00:17:48.319> to<00:17:48.459> anyone<00:17:48.699> since<00:17:48.939> I<00:17:49.079> left,<00:17:49.339> really,<00:17:49.759> in<00:17:49.959> any<00:17:50.099> serious<00:17:50.419> way.

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But<00:17:52.259> of<00:17:52.459> course,<00:17:52.779> whenever<00:17:52.939> things<00:17:53.279> like<00:17:53.519> this<00:17:53.739> happen,<00:17:54.019> and<00:17:54.139> this<00:17:54.279> one<00:17:54.870> Well,<00:17:55.370> I<00:17:55.390> mean,<00:17:56.070> we<00:17:56.130> can<00:17:56.330> pick—<00:17:56.890> it's<00:17:56.891> not<00:17:57.030> political,<00:17:57.410> you<00:17:57.550> said,<00:17:57.830> but<00:17:57.910> it<00:17:58.030> is<00:17:58.190> a<00:17:58.250> human—<00:17:58.750> it's<00:17:58.930> humans<00:17:59.250> causing<00:17:59.650> this<00:17:59.890> one.

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COVID<00:18:00.990> was<00:18:01.190> a<00:18:01.310> little<00:18:01.370> different,<00:18:01.710> but<00:18:01.810> it's<00:18:01.930> the<00:18:02.070> same<00:18:02.210> thing.

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People<00:18:02.810> freeze.

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What's<00:18:04.170> going<00:18:04.430> on?

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Or<00:18:04.910> you<00:18:04.950> could<00:18:05.130> say<00:18:05.490> slow<00:18:05.910> down<00:18:06.150> and<00:18:06.330> take<00:18:06.530> stock,<00:18:06.910> whatever<00:18:07.190> you<00:18:07.430> want.

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But<00:18:08.210> then<00:18:08.290> you<00:18:08.430> figure<00:18:08.710> out<00:18:09.050> in<00:18:09.390> some<00:18:09.590> version,<00:18:09.830> I<00:18:09.990> got<00:18:10.050> to<00:18:10.210> get<00:18:10.310> on<00:18:10.470> with<00:18:10.670> it,<00:18:11.350> get<00:18:11.610> on<00:18:11.810> with<00:18:11.950> something.

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And<00:18:13.070> that's<00:18:13.230> what<00:18:13.470> I<00:18:13.490> think<00:18:14.450> people<00:18:15.130> are<00:18:15.690> starting<00:18:16.030> to<00:18:16.290> do<00:18:16.450> and<00:18:16.610> have<00:18:16.830> to<00:18:16.950> start<00:18:17.150> to<00:18:17.350> do.

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It's<00:18:17.630> going<00:18:17.690> to<00:18:17.910> be<00:18:18.090> an<00:18:18.810> uncertain<00:18:19.430> world<00:18:20.050> given<00:18:20.290> the<00:18:20.750> way<00:18:20.890> the<00:18:21.050> current<00:18:21.330> president<00:18:21.630> likes<00:18:21.890> to<00:18:22.130> operate.

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You're<00:18:23.950> right,<00:18:24.030> it's<00:18:24.130> not<00:18:24.290> political,<00:18:24.550> and<00:18:24.570> none<00:18:24.590> of<00:18:24.610> us<00:18:24.630> are<00:18:24.650> shrinks.

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So<00:18:26.582> there's<00:18:26.886> just,<00:18:27.287> it's<00:18:27.447> just<00:18:27.784> unquestionable.

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It's<00:18:28.826> gonna<00:18:28.987> be<00:18:29.147> uncertain.

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And,<00:18:30.734> but<00:18:30.830> that's<00:18:31.071> gonna<00:18:31.295> continue.

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It'll<00:18:31.952> never,<00:18:32.914> and<00:18:33.075> so<00:18:33.235> you're<00:18:33.379> gonna<00:18:33.475> have<00:18:33.700> to<00:18:33.796> just<00:18:34.101> figure<00:18:34.502> out<00:18:34.582> how<00:18:34.838> to<00:18:35.704> operate<00:18:36.281> in<00:18:36.425> that<00:18:36.602> uncertainty<00:18:38.750> while,<00:18:39.151> you<00:18:39.183> know,<00:18:39.407> keeping<00:18:39.728> your<00:18:39.888> business<00:18:40.273> humming.

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But<00:18:40.674> I<00:18:40.850> think<00:18:41.075> that<00:18:41.251> would<00:18:41.331> be<00:18:41.475> the<00:18:41.508> main<00:18:41.796> thing<00:18:41.956> I'd<00:18:42.117> think<00:18:42.293> is<00:18:42.373> you<00:18:42.453> better<00:18:42.678> expect<00:18:43.800> twists<00:18:44.121> and<00:18:44.281> turns.

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And<00:18:45.323> how<00:18:45.419> do<00:18:45.483> you<00:18:45.580> ensure<00:18:45.980> the<00:18:46.141> core<00:18:46.445> of<00:18:46.542> your<00:18:46.702> business<00:18:48.065> is<00:18:48.850> where<00:18:49.027> it<00:18:49.171> is?

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Which,<00:18:49.988> you<00:18:50.021> know,<00:18:50.133> then<00:18:50.293> goes<00:18:50.469> to<00:18:50.534> obvious<00:18:50.934> things.

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I<00:18:51.351> mean,<00:18:51.479> you<00:18:51.511> could<00:18:51.656> use,<00:18:52.169> is<00:18:52.297> your<00:18:52.393> brand<00:18:52.730> solid?

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Is<00:18:53.419> the<00:18:53.499> stuff,<00:18:53.852> your<00:18:53.996> service<00:18:54.542> or<00:18:54.638> product,<00:18:55.183> and<00:18:55.584> are<00:18:55.664> the<00:18:55.760> people<00:18:56.145> all<00:18:56.321> humming?

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Because<00:18:57.108> that's<00:18:57.606> more<00:18:57.702> than<00:18:57.927> anything.

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If<00:18:58.473> your<00:18:58.650> people<00:18:59.051> aren't<00:18:59.357> humming,<00:18:59.919> nimble,<00:19:00.336> etc.,<00:19:01.300> you're<00:19:01.364> gonna<00:19:01.445> have<00:19:01.541> a<00:19:01.605> hard<00:19:01.782> time<00:19:02.039> adjusting<00:19:03.372> when<00:19:03.613> you<00:19:03.710> need<00:19:03.870> to<00:19:04.031> adjust.

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What's<00:19:05.219> been<00:19:05.316> some<00:19:05.492> of<00:19:05.557> the<00:19:05.653> most<00:19:06.103> challenging<00:19:06.761> leadership<00:19:07.388> moments<00:19:07.886> that<00:19:08.030> you<00:19:08.191> faced?

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Challenging<00:19:09.412> leadership<00:19:09.974> moments.

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Well,<00:19:12.046> it's<00:19:12.207> funny<00:19:12.383> because<00:19:13.508> I,<00:19:13.588> I<00:19:13.668> love—<00:19:14.150> I<00:19:14.166> mean,<00:19:14.712> of<00:19:14.793> course,<00:19:15.740> COVID<00:19:16.383> hitting<00:19:16.801> and<00:19:16.897> the<00:19:17.042> uncertainty,<00:19:17.764> and<00:19:17.909> literally<00:19:18.150> I<00:19:18.166> remember<00:19:18.551> the<00:19:18.648> day,<00:19:19.531> did<00:19:19.708> a<00:19:19.772> video<00:19:20.270> like<00:19:20.591> this<00:19:20.832> except<00:19:21.202> it<00:19:21.282> was<00:19:21.395> a<00:19:21.459> different<00:19:21.764> tool.

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Actually,<00:19:22.743> it<00:19:22.791> was<00:19:22.903> just<00:19:23.449> video<00:19:23.786> then<00:19:24.668> to<00:19:24.828> say<00:19:25.213> we're<00:19:25.390> going<00:19:25.775> to<00:19:25.887> shut<00:19:26.192> down<00:19:26.818> every<00:19:27.219> office<00:19:27.780> in<00:19:27.940> North<00:19:28.197> America,<00:19:28.662> which<00:19:28.823> was<00:19:28.919> like<00:19:29.079> 27<00:19:29.705> offices<00:19:30.443> and<00:19:30.587> stay<00:19:31.004> at<00:19:31.149> home.

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Talk<00:19:32.304> about<00:19:32.849> insanity.

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I<00:19:33.876> mean,<00:19:34.197> like<00:19:34.678> what,<00:19:35.801> who<00:19:35.961> would<00:19:36.218> do<00:19:36.443> that?

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You<00:19:37.004> know,<00:19:37.485> you<00:19:37.565> would<00:19:37.742> say,<00:19:37.966> and<00:19:38.063> then<00:19:38.368> all<00:19:38.640> of<00:19:38.704> the<00:19:38.929> uncertainty<00:19:40.533> of<00:19:41.111> that<00:19:41.431> moment<00:19:41.832> and<00:19:42.073> every<00:19:42.298> decision,<00:19:43.581> you<00:19:43.613> know,<00:19:43.757> that<00:19:43.854> was<00:19:44.062> probably<00:19:44.415> as<00:19:44.624> challenging<00:19:45.201> a<00:19:45.682> moment<00:19:46.019> as<00:19:46.549> I've<00:19:46.709> ever<00:19:46.821> seen.

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And<00:19:47.110> most<00:19:47.351> people<00:19:47.607> I<00:19:47.752> talk<00:19:48.073> to<00:19:48.570> now,<00:19:49.260> I<00:19:49.760> love<00:19:50.160> these<00:19:50.400> kind<00:19:50.760> of<00:19:50.780> things.

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You<00:19:51.161> know,<00:19:51.280> for<00:19:51.360> me,<00:19:51.600> this<00:19:51.740> is<00:19:51.900> just<00:19:52.100> heaven<00:19:52.320> on<00:19:52.580> earth.

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And<00:19:53.199> it—<00:19:53.560> but<00:19:53.561> I'll<00:19:53.700> tell<00:19:53.840> you,<00:19:53.980> it<00:19:54.000> just<00:19:54.140> drove<00:19:54.440> home<00:19:54.760> some<00:19:54.960> important<00:19:55.420> things.

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The<00:19:55.940> power,<00:19:56.480> the<00:19:56.620> importance<00:19:57.219> of<00:19:58.280> understanding<00:19:59.100> where<00:19:59.320> your<00:19:59.560> people<00:19:59.840> are<00:20:00.040> coming<00:20:00.220> from,<00:20:00.720> you<00:20:00.920> know,<00:20:01.060> not<00:20:01.300> where<00:20:01.540> you're<00:20:01.760> coming<00:20:02.020> from,<00:20:02.320> but<00:20:02.500> where<00:20:02.680> they're<00:20:02.860> coming<00:20:03.160> from.

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Well,<00:20:04.180> I'll<00:20:04.400> tell<00:20:04.401> a<00:20:04.540> quick<00:20:04.700> story.

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I<00:20:05.060> had<00:20:05.180> a<00:20:05.220> colleague<00:20:05.419> said,<00:20:06.220> Joe,<00:20:06.280> when<00:20:06.760> I<00:20:06.900> ran<00:20:07.040> North<00:20:07.280> America,<00:20:08.260> 70%<00:20:08.900> of<00:20:09.180> the<00:20:09.200> staff<00:20:09.420> were<00:20:09.660> under<00:20:09.900> 29.

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Now,<00:20:11.360> I<00:20:11.440> wasn't<00:20:11.620> under<00:20:11.900> 29,<00:20:12.320> I<00:20:12.520> can<00:20:12.680> tell<00:20:12.840> you.

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And<00:20:13.120> I<00:20:13.160> had<00:20:13.360> a<00:20:13.440> house<00:20:13.680> with<00:20:13.920> a<00:20:14.100> lot<00:20:14.120> of<00:20:14.280> bedrooms<00:20:14.580> because<00:20:14.780> I<00:20:14.800> had<00:20:14.940> 4<00:20:15.160> kids.

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Someone<00:20:16.140> said,<00:20:16.400> Joe,<00:20:16.480> you<00:20:16.600> don't<00:20:16.800> understand<00:20:17.300> what's,<00:20:17.760> you<00:20:17.920> know,<00:20:18.000> their<00:20:18.200> life.

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And<00:20:18.780> I<00:20:18.880> got<00:20:19.000> on<00:20:19.160> the<00:20:19.180> phone<00:20:19.200> with<00:20:19.220> one<00:20:19.240> of<00:20:19.260> like<00:20:19.280> a<00:20:19.300> second-year<00:20:19.320> person.

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He<00:20:21.644> was<00:20:21.805> on<00:20:21.885> his<00:20:22.126> bed<00:20:22.271> and<00:20:22.913> I<00:20:22.929> said,<00:20:23.154> whoa,<00:20:23.476> you're<00:20:23.556> working<00:20:23.797> on<00:20:23.893> your<00:20:24.054> bed?

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Not<00:20:24.616> even<00:20:25.242> on<00:20:25.275> his<00:20:25.419> bed,<00:20:25.821> but<00:20:26.046> on<00:20:26.126> his<00:20:26.303> bed.

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And<00:20:26.608> he<00:20:26.640> said,<00:20:26.801> well,<00:20:27.009> yeah,<00:20:27.331> my<00:20:27.588> apartment's<00:20:27.989> so<00:20:28.230> little,<00:20:28.471> my<00:20:28.873> living<00:20:29.114> room<00:20:29.355> that<00:20:29.499> blurs<00:20:29.836> into<00:20:30.061> the<00:20:30.158> kitchen,<00:20:30.640> the<00:20:30.784> dining<00:20:30.961> room's<00:20:31.186> all<00:20:31.282> part<00:20:31.523> of<00:20:31.619> it,<00:20:31.828> and<00:20:31.909> the<00:20:32.069> bedroom.

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One<00:20:33.210> week<00:20:33.691> I<00:20:33.852> get<00:20:34.029> the<00:20:34.157> bed,<00:20:34.800> my<00:20:34.896> wife<00:20:35.137> gets<00:20:35.362> the<00:20:35.458> couch.

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The<00:20:36.004> next<00:20:36.245> week<00:20:36.342> she<00:20:36.583> gets<00:20:36.824> the<00:20:37.145> bed<00:20:37.354> and<00:20:37.450> I<00:20:37.547> get<00:20:37.707> the<00:20:37.852> couch.

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Whoa,<00:20:38.912> that<00:20:39.072> wasn't<00:20:39.474> the<00:20:39.619> world<00:20:39.860> I<00:20:40.020> was<00:20:40.181> living<00:20:40.502> in.

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So<00:20:40.904> it<00:20:40.984> was<00:20:41.080> very<00:20:41.321> powerful.

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You<00:20:42.044> know,<00:20:43.168> connect<00:20:43.474> with<00:20:43.634> your<00:20:43.811> people,<00:20:44.357> understand<00:20:44.855> where<00:20:45.000> you're<00:20:45.112> coming,<00:20:45.642> where<00:20:45.738> they're<00:20:45.963> coming<00:20:46.285> from.

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Then<00:20:47.390> another<00:20:47.670> very,<00:20:48.270> I<00:20:48.290> mean,<00:20:49.290> you<00:20:49.291> know,<00:20:49.650> vulnerable<00:20:50.090> or<00:20:50.470> humble<00:20:50.890> authenticity<00:20:51.690> and<00:20:51.970> honesty<00:20:52.550> is<00:20:52.870> critical<00:20:53.230> in<00:20:53.390> those<00:20:53.550> times.

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I<00:20:54.071> mean,<00:20:54.230> you<00:20:54.231> probably,<00:20:54.790> if<00:20:54.970> you<00:20:55.030> ever<00:20:55.210> saw<00:20:55.570> Arne<00:20:56.650> Sorensen's<00:20:57.170> video<00:20:57.510> when<00:20:57.770> he,<00:20:58.620> you<00:20:58.630> know,<00:20:58.990> the<00:20:59.030> CEO<00:20:59.510> of<00:20:59.910> Marriott<00:20:59.970> talked<00:21:00.350> about<00:21:00.590> how<00:21:00.990> we're<00:21:01.090> gonna<00:21:01.170> get<00:21:01.310> through<00:21:01.570> this.

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He<00:21:01.971> was<00:21:02.090> dying<00:21:02.350> of<00:21:02.530> cancer,<00:21:03.230> you<00:21:03.330> know,<00:21:03.450> his<00:21:03.650> bald<00:21:03.810> 'cause<00:21:03.970> of<00:21:04.170> cancer.

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It's<00:21:05.130> very<00:21:05.450> powerful<00:21:06.030> and<00:21:06.250> vulnerable<00:21:06.510> film.

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And<00:21:06.990> he<00:21:07.030> just<00:21:07.210> told<00:21:07.470> the<00:21:07.670> truth.

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You<00:21:08.510> know,<00:21:08.690> we're<00:21:08.910> furloughing<00:21:09.270> people.

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I'm<00:21:10.050> not<00:21:10.230> sure<00:21:10.390> when<00:21:10.570> we're<00:21:10.710> gonna<00:21:10.830> get<00:21:11.130> back,<00:21:11.410> but<00:21:11.530> we<00:21:11.650> are<00:21:11.790> gonna<00:21:11.910> get<00:21:12.230> back.

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Scott<00:21:13.270> Kirby<00:21:13.570> told<00:21:13.750> me<00:21:13.890> a<00:21:14.110> funny<00:21:14.330> initiative<00:21:14.750> story.

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As<00:21:16.204> far<00:21:16.461> as<00:21:17.247> being<00:21:17.471> humble<00:21:17.808> and<00:21:17.953> honest<00:21:18.530> when<00:21:18.691> you<00:21:18.771> have<00:21:18.916> moments<00:21:19.252> like<00:21:19.477> that.

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And<00:21:19.878> he<00:21:20.039> was<00:21:20.135> going<00:21:20.263> to<00:21:20.295> go<00:21:20.456> tell<00:21:20.777> the<00:21:21.194> entire<00:21:21.643> United<00:21:22.060> Airlines<00:21:22.526> team,<00:21:22.766> he's<00:21:22.943> CEO<00:21:23.103> of<00:21:23.200> United,<00:21:24.082> "I'm<00:21:24.227> not<00:21:24.387> sure<00:21:24.628> when<00:21:24.772> we're<00:21:24.868> flying<00:21:25.189> again."<00:21:25.655> And<00:21:25.735> all<00:21:26.072> his<00:21:26.553> advisors<00:21:27.516> and<00:21:27.580> CEO<00:21:28.462> C-suite<00:21:29.024> team,<00:21:29.185> "You<00:21:29.281> can't<00:21:29.554> say<00:21:29.746> that.

00:21:29.923 --> 00:21:43.401
You<00:21:30.067> can't<00:21:30.308> be<00:21:30.404> so<00:21:30.580> uncertain."<00:21:31.527> He<00:21:31.607> said,<00:21:31.688> "Well,<00:21:31.848> what<00:21:32.073> the<00:21:32.153> hell<00:21:32.265> do<00:21:32.329> you<00:21:32.394> want<00:21:32.490> me<00:21:32.570> to<00:21:32.731> tell<00:21:32.955> them,<00:21:33.051> that<00:21:33.212> I<00:21:33.292> know<00:21:33.533> when<00:21:33.677> the<00:21:33.773> plane's<00:21:34.175> going<00:21:34.415> to<00:21:34.736> go?"<00:21:34.913> So,<00:21:35.202> he<00:21:35.298> got<00:21:35.522> up<00:21:35.635> there<00:21:35.715> and<00:21:35.843> said,<00:21:36.004> "We'll<00:21:36.742> manage<00:21:37.143> through<00:21:37.384> it."<00:21:37.929> Well,<00:21:38.026> they<00:21:38.186> were<00:21:38.282> stunned<00:21:38.844> he<00:21:38.908> would<00:21:39.068> be<00:21:39.293> that<00:21:39.951> vulnerably<00:21:40.737> honest<00:21:41.379> or<00:21:41.636> not<00:21:41.876> have<00:21:42.133> the<00:21:42.342> answer<00:21:42.679> as<00:21:42.839> the<00:21:42.984> boss.

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But<00:21:44.603> in<00:21:44.683> that<00:21:44.924> kind<00:21:45.164> of<00:21:45.228> moment,<00:21:45.645> pretending<00:21:46.110> you<00:21:46.190> have<00:21:46.430> an<00:21:46.510> answer<00:21:46.911> when<00:21:47.232> everyone<00:21:47.568> can<00:21:47.681> smell<00:21:48.129> BS<00:21:49.315> ain't<00:21:49.428> a<00:21:49.492> good<00:21:49.716> call.

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Now,<00:21:50.838> why<00:21:50.934> can't<00:21:51.159> we<00:21:51.255> be<00:21:51.335> like<00:21:51.559> that<00:21:51.720> all<00:21:51.800> the<00:21:51.896> time?

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So,<00:21:52.233> you<00:21:52.313> know,<00:21:52.393> those—<00:21:52.617> that<00:21:52.778> was<00:21:53.082> probably<00:21:53.403> one<00:21:53.483> of<00:21:53.515> the<00:21:53.579> most—<00:21:54.044> and<00:21:54.092> then<00:21:54.284> there's<00:21:54.445> just<00:21:54.637> a<00:21:54.685> lot<00:21:54.861> of<00:21:54.941> twists<00:21:55.262> and<00:21:55.406> turns<00:21:56.608> that<00:21:56.849> I<00:21:56.945> thought<00:21:57.169> were<00:21:57.265> fun<00:21:57.506> because<00:21:58.051> if<00:21:58.147> there's<00:21:58.371> ever<00:21:58.548> a<00:21:58.612> chance<00:21:58.884> to<00:21:59.029> connect<00:21:59.413> with<00:21:59.590> people<00:21:59.974> and,<00:22:00.038> you<00:22:00.070> know,<00:22:00.631> the<00:22:00.776> power<00:22:01.112> of<00:22:01.192> motivating,<00:22:01.657> inspiring<00:22:02.074> your<00:22:02.234> people,<00:22:03.036> make<00:22:03.132> sure<00:22:03.420> you<00:22:03.501> get<00:22:03.677> through<00:22:03.901> on<00:22:03.981> the<00:22:04.078> other<00:22:04.318> end<00:22:04.558> in<00:22:04.622> a<00:22:04.703> great<00:22:04.943> place.

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That<00:22:06.241> was<00:22:06.466> it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,<00:22:08.485> that's<00:22:08.646> beautiful,<00:22:09.126> actually.

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Finally,<00:22:10.393> we<00:22:10.569> end<00:22:10.713> every<00:22:10.890> interview<00:22:11.178> with<00:22:11.290> the<00:22:11.370> same<00:22:11.611> question.

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And<00:22:12.893> that<00:22:13.117> is<00:22:13.294> at<00:22:13.358> CEO.com,<00:22:14.255> we<00:22:14.416> believe<00:22:14.656> the<00:22:14.800> chances<00:22:15.217> one<00:22:15.538> gives<00:22:16.083> is<00:22:16.179> just<00:22:16.387> as<00:22:16.499> important<00:22:16.804> as<00:22:16.900> the<00:22:17.044> chances<00:22:17.381> one<00:22:17.541> takes.

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When<00:22:18.904> you<00:22:19.128> hear<00:22:19.288> that,<00:22:19.449> who<00:22:19.609> gave<00:22:19.785> you<00:22:19.929> a<00:22:19.945> chance<00:22:20.266> to<00:22:20.410> get<00:22:20.506> you<00:22:20.667> to<00:22:20.731> where<00:22:20.907> you<00:22:21.067> are<00:22:21.228> today?

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Yeah,<00:22:22.430> well,<00:22:22.831> pretty<00:22:22.991> simple.

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I<00:22:23.600> had<00:22:24.113> an<00:22:24.193> amazing<00:22:24.834> mentor,<00:22:25.363> a<00:22:25.379> guy<00:22:25.491> named<00:22:25.732> Steve<00:22:26.196> Gumby,<00:22:26.902> who<00:22:27.623> was<00:22:28.056> at<00:22:28.520> BCG<00:22:29.065> forever.

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Now<00:22:29.546> he's<00:22:29.707> CEO<00:22:29.947> of<00:22:30.107> FTI.

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And<00:22:31.630> he,<00:22:33.313> I<00:22:33.409> worked<00:22:33.649> with<00:22:33.794> him<00:22:33.970> on<00:22:34.050> my<00:22:34.210> first<00:22:34.451> project.

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He<00:22:35.172> was<00:22:35.348> a<00:22:35.493> hard-ass.

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Sorry,<00:22:36.615> Steve.

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He<00:22:37.256> was<00:22:37.432> a<00:22:37.560> tough<00:22:37.881> guy,<00:22:38.538> but<00:22:38.923> all<00:22:39.083> he<00:22:39.179> cared<00:22:39.420> about<00:22:39.676> is<00:22:39.804> you<00:22:39.981> being<00:22:40.221> better.

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And<00:22:40.766> if<00:22:40.847> you<00:22:40.943> didn't<00:22:41.216> care<00:22:41.328> about<00:22:41.505> you<00:22:41.666> being<00:22:41.826> better,<00:22:42.228> then<00:22:42.324> he<00:22:42.453> kind<00:22:42.645> of<00:22:42.709> stopped.

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But<00:22:43.721> he<00:22:43.994> had<00:22:44.235> my<00:22:44.476> back.

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He<00:22:45.118> pushed<00:22:45.520> me.

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We<00:22:46.547> opened<00:22:46.788> the<00:22:46.869> Washington<00:22:47.270> office<00:22:47.607> together.

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Of<00:22:48.250> course,<00:22:48.490> he<00:22:48.635> was<00:22:48.796> leading<00:22:48.972> it.

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Eventually<00:22:49.599> I<00:22:49.775> led<00:22:50.000> it.

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Actually,<00:22:51.140> eventually<00:22:51.847> he<00:22:51.943> led<00:22:52.168> North<00:22:52.361> America.

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It's<00:22:52.810> not—<00:22:53.051> I<00:22:53.067> didn't<00:22:53.228> get<00:22:53.372> it<00:22:53.404> right<00:22:53.549> because<00:22:53.934> of<00:22:54.015> him.

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But,<00:22:54.368> you<00:22:54.448> know,<00:22:54.577> he<00:22:54.753> taught<00:22:54.994> me<00:22:55.074> a<00:22:55.090> lot<00:22:55.412> about<00:22:56.520> myself,<00:22:57.242> pushed<00:22:57.467> myself<00:22:57.885> to<00:22:57.965> be<00:22:58.125> better.

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I<00:22:59.250> mean,<00:22:59.539> he<00:22:59.812> really<00:23:00.133> gave<00:23:00.454> me<00:23:00.615> a<00:23:00.679> lot.

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Then<00:23:01.674> I<00:23:01.819> can't—<00:23:02.140> I<00:23:02.220> should<00:23:02.461> close<00:23:02.766> with<00:23:02.895> saying,<00:23:03.184> and<00:23:03.328> also<00:23:03.585> my<00:23:03.746> wife.

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You<00:23:04.292> asked<00:23:04.468> about<00:23:04.709> how<00:23:04.854> you<00:23:04.950> balance<00:23:05.432> it.

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I<00:23:06.171> mean,<00:23:06.331> Sarah<00:23:06.797> really<00:23:07.584> was<00:23:07.825> there.

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Through<00:23:08.730> it<00:23:08.970> all,<00:23:09.150> you<00:23:09.510> know.

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And<00:23:10.111> she<00:23:10.350> always—<00:23:11.190> she—<00:23:11.410> if<00:23:11.550> I<00:23:11.610> tell<00:23:11.670> you<00:23:11.790> one<00:23:11.890> funny<00:23:12.130> story,<00:23:12.510> of<00:23:12.690> course,<00:23:12.691> she<00:23:12.810> would—<00:23:13.290> if<00:23:13.310> I<00:23:13.390> ever<00:23:13.550> got<00:23:13.730> testy<00:23:14.190> about<00:23:14.350> the<00:23:14.530> review<00:23:14.890> I<00:23:15.090> got<00:23:15.390> at<00:23:15.550> the<00:23:15.630> end<00:23:15.790> of<00:23:15.830> the<00:23:15.970> year,<00:23:15.971> the<00:23:16.070> partner<00:23:16.370> review,<00:23:16.790> and<00:23:16.910> think<00:23:17.070> this<00:23:17.270> wasn't<00:23:17.490> fair,<00:23:18.390> she'd<00:23:18.790> say,<00:23:19.010> you<00:23:19.030> know,<00:23:19.310> Joe,<00:23:19.570> you<00:23:19.970> get<00:23:20.210> mad<00:23:20.810> and<00:23:20.870> you're<00:23:21.130> grumpy<00:23:21.370> for<00:23:21.650> like<00:23:22.110> 4<00:23:22.210> to<00:23:22.390> 8<00:23:22.590> weeks<00:23:22.890> and<00:23:23.030> then<00:23:23.210> you<00:23:23.350> forget<00:23:23.690> about<00:23:24.050> it.

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So<00:23:24.490> why<00:23:24.570> don't<00:23:24.710> you<00:23:24.830> just<00:23:25.070> forget<00:23:25.210> about<00:23:25.470> it<00:23:25.730> now?

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You<00:23:26.310> know,<00:23:26.530> like<00:23:26.630> a<00:23:26.870> week.

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Oh,<00:23:27.910> well,<00:23:27.990> that's<00:23:28.130> a<00:23:28.270> good<00:23:28.370> thought.

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Why<00:23:29.090> be<00:23:29.290> mad<00:23:29.530> for—<00:23:29.810> that's<00:23:30.070> why<00:23:30.190> I<00:23:30.210> want<00:23:30.330> to<00:23:30.430> be<00:23:30.570> mad.

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She<00:23:30.850> doesn't<00:23:30.970> know,<00:23:31.210> but<00:23:31.290> it's<00:23:31.410> just<00:23:31.590> good.

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So<00:23:31.950> just<00:23:32.070> let<00:23:32.290> it<00:23:32.450> go<00:23:32.550> right<00:23:32.770> now.

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You<00:23:33.330> know<00:23:33.570> what?

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Good<00:23:33.770> advice.

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You<00:23:34.491> know,<00:23:34.990> like,<00:23:35.370> good<00:23:35.510> advice.

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That's<00:23:36.510> incredible<00:23:36.950> advice.

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That's<00:23:37.790> amazing.

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Just<00:23:38.030> let<00:23:38.050> it<00:23:40.260> now.

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Whoa,<00:23:41.002> okay.

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If<00:23:42.052> I<00:23:42.149> don't—<00:23:42.472> that<00:23:42.634> was<00:23:42.795> called<00:23:43.038> humbling,<00:23:43.441> you<00:23:43.538> know,<00:23:43.684> like,<00:23:43.845> what's<00:23:44.071> wrong<00:23:44.249> with<00:23:44.491> me<00:23:45.056> just<00:23:45.283> to<00:23:45.379> be<00:23:45.541> grumpy,<00:23:46.090> you<00:23:46.171> know?

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Uh,<00:23:47.140> that's<00:23:47.560> incredible.

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Joe,<00:23:48.287> thank<00:23:48.513> you<00:23:48.610> so<00:23:48.836> much<00:23:49.013> for<00:23:49.159> coming.

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I<00:23:49.660> highly<00:23:49.870> recommend<00:23:50.223> everybody<00:23:50.544> check<00:23:50.785> out<00:23:50.882> your<00:23:51.026> book,<00:23:51.251> The<00:23:51.331> Generous<00:23:51.749> Leader.

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Here<00:23:52.552> it<00:23:52.697> is<00:23:52.874> again.

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Um,<00:23:53.822> thank<00:23:53.998> you<00:23:54.079> for<00:23:54.223> sending<00:23:54.561> this,<00:23:54.721> by<00:23:54.866> the<00:23:54.962> way.

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Uh,<00:23:55.669> meant<00:23:55.846> a<00:23:55.910> lot<00:23:56.087> to<00:23:56.167> get<00:23:56.328> that<00:23:56.553> from<00:23:56.730> you.

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Uh,<00:23:57.292> appreciate<00:23:57.677> you<00:23:57.838> coming<00:23:57.999> on.

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Thank<00:23:58.898> you,<00:23:58.979> Clint.

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This<00:23:59.445> was<00:23:59.621> a<00:23:59.670> lot<00:23:59.852> of<00:23:59.902> fun.

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Thanks,<00:24:00.865> Joe.

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Take<00:24:01.678> care.

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Loving<00:24:15.222> you,<00:24:15.546> Miss<00:24:15.773> Starshine<00:24:16.825> Brighter.

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Yeah.